September 12, 2025 • 12 mins
Meet Frankie Elkin, a vigilante investigator working on missing persons cold cases. She picks up where law enforcement officials leave off, going the extra (and unorthodox) mile to find missing people and bring closure to their families. In her latest case, Frankie is called to Tucson, Arizona to find a missing Afghan refugee, whose friend suspects she is in grave danger. All she left behind is a series of riddles. Sabera Ahmadi is a young mother haunted by war and determined to make a fresh start in the United States. But despite the distance she’s put between herself and her home country, the past has come back to haunt her. Local police have yet to open a case on her disappearance, and her older, domineering husband seems unconcerned. Sabera’s closest friend, however, is convinced she would never willingly leave her four‑year old daughter. At her insistence, Frankie agrees to take up the search through the broiling streets of Tucson. Just in time for a video of the Sabera to surface—showing her walking away from the scene of a brutal double murder.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, and good morning, Lisa. How are you doing great?
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Thank you so much, Harold, good morning.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
I got to tell you you do something with your
writing that I call hidden speak, and I'm so inspired
by it because a lock to a key for a
key that has no lock, that to me, that gets
my imagination going, Oh, where did that come from? Was
she driving in the car? Did it hit you know
it's Starbucks? Where did it come from?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Well, and on all honesty, I can't even answer that question.
It just came to me one day and I didn't
even know the answer. Why.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Yeah, But don't you like that about being an author
or a writer, because things come to us when we
least expect it, and then we sit there and just
stare at it on the computer.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yeah, and I think you get just like feeling. It's
the closest you've become, really, the instinct and all this like,
I don't know what this is or where this is going,
but I know it's right. This is part of the book,
and hopefully by the time I reached the end, I
figured out the rest of this.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
The book we're talking about is Kisser Goodbye, Frankie Elkin novel.
So this is your third one what does that like
to step into that, because I mean, you've got to
keep this book in chronological order.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
This is actually the first one technically, But I do
write them a standalone. I feel like, I mean, I
love to follow a series character, but I think all
of us read so much and we're so busy. I
don't want to make someone feel like, oh, I can't
even read this book lest I go read a whole
bunch of other ones.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Well, yeah, I mean you really. You put us in
a place Tucson, Arizona, and it's so up to date,
modern and Afghan refugee is missing, and that is a
modern day world that we're presently living in.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yes, for me, Ever since I started out as a
thriller writer, most of my books have been based on
something kind of ripped from the headline. So in this
case it was also a little more personal. I happen
to meet a couple who this is what they do
for the volunteer work. They help resettle refugees in Tucson,
and they were talking to me about the challenges inherent
(02:05):
with their latest case, which was an Afghan family. And
like a lot of people I would assume, I thought
I knew what refugees were, but I didn't really know everything.
I didn't know, so I was done talking to them
and then I was like, Okay, this would make an
excellent book.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
What did you feel? I mean, what was this? Because
I mean, book ideas come to me when I'm walking
through a mall, and you know, it's like, WHOA, I
guess we're going we're going to write about this one.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
What they're really talking about was the challenges inherent. So
refugees are legally recognized, so the federal government is giving
them permission. They bringing them into the country. But here's
the fine print. You have ninety days to become self sufficient.
So you get assigned to Tucson. You don't pick where
(02:52):
you're going. It's like, okay, we're sending you to Tucson,
and here's a resettlement agency that will help you. So
that's what some of these volunteers do. I mean, it's
an urban environment with no affordable housing, but hey, you
need to find affordable housing. You may have a great
academic educational past, like I did. A family who's the
(03:13):
husband's a brilliant mathematician, the wife has the gifts with
languages from Afghanistan. We've gotten a lot of engineers and
pilots and law enforcement and lawyers and doctors. None of
that education is honored here. So yes, you're looking at
uber eats those kinds of jobs, but you need to
(03:34):
support a family. And having said all of that, I
mean you've lost your country, You've lost your extended family,
which for the Afghan community is very difficult. Their family
isn't a party of three, it should be thirty people.
So you have a lot of loss, and you have
a lot of trauma. And yet at the same time,
I kid you not, this is the best thing that
(03:56):
has happened to you. This is the best opportunity you
are going to have for future, for yourself and your children.
And talking to the refugees about this, I mean, that's drama, right,
and what is our job is not to bring that
to life.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yeah, but your drama has turned into trauma now. And
that's the twist in the story.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Well, because that's the other thing they talked about. I mean,
my character, Frankie Elkin looks for the missing no one
else was searching for, and a refugee is very vulnerable.
And I mean, in this case of this book, you know,
the young mother Sabra has only been in the country
for ten weeks. She knows no one other than like
her husband and a few of these volunteers. And the
(04:41):
volunteers are terribly overextended. It's exactly the kind of people
that can very easily fall through the cracks.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
How do you do research for a story like this?
I mean, are you a people watcher?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I am a people watcher, but I love to interview,
Like I always feel like if I wasn't an author,
you know, I would be a journalist. Thing like that.
It's probably what I share with my character Frankie Elkin.
I do genuinely love to talk to people and listen
to their stories. So for this book, and it was
very intense compared to often I'm talking to experts about,
(05:16):
you know, how to dust for fingerprints or track someone
in the woods, And in this case, it was just
talking to people. You know, where were you to day Copplefell.
You learn not to talk about certain things, do not
ask questions about refuge camps. It's just it's not a
place anyone wants to go back to. But then, okay,
now you're in the US. You know, what was the
(05:39):
biggest hurdle you were overcoming. You know, how did you
find your first employment? What do you think of trying
to roll a child in school in the US? Which
is lou bureocrapy kind of thing. And I mean the
stories were heartbreaking, they were inspirational. Talking to the people
(06:01):
who work with refugees and they're just sheer commitment because man,
it feels so impossible most of the time, and yet
none of these volunteers can look away. I mean, this
is such important.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Look, please do not move. There's more with Lisa Gardner
coming up next. The name of the book Kisser. Goodbye,
Lisa Gardner, the author. We're back. I love the way
that you're talking about these these Afghan refugees. And the
reason why is because at the grocery store there's a
group of men from Afghanistan that come in and I
have the greatest time sharing a conversation with them because
(06:36):
they're just so friendly and a lot of people go, oh,
they're from that, they're from Afghanistan, and right away they're
holding something against them. I'm going, my god, I'm getting
the greatest conversation in the world from these guys here
because I took the chance to listen to them.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Oh my goodness, one of the families had me over
for dinner. I'm like a six course dinner. I mean,
these are people that are living on the margins, but
that's hospitality. I mean, they wouldn't have it any other way.
And I'm trying to find how can I be helpful
and what kind I kind of do? And you know,
the volunteers are there who are like you will insult
(07:10):
them if you even bring a gift. I mean, I
love books that let us walk into someone else's shoes
and experience something that we wouldn't on our own and
maybe realize how many you know, misunderstandings or misinterpretations we
have of things. And boy, I certainly was learning stuff
(07:32):
every single day researching this book, and it did make
me very excited to write it because it's like, this
is interesting and kind of mind blowing to me. I'm
hoping it will be for you as well.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
You're writing discipline, what comes first the story or creating
a mystery? Or do you do the mystery first and
then build a story around.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
That the character? Yeah, so at its heart, just a
Goodby is domestic suspense. It's a story of a family. Yeah,
something's gone terribly wrong. It's kind of the classic what
goes on behind closed doors? What are the lies we
tell other people? What are the lies we tell ourselves?
(08:10):
So I'm establishing the characters first, and then I don't
actually know what happened. So, I mean, I know someone disappeared.
What kind of mystery are we talking about? It is
a violence? Is it got lost? The characters at a
certain point, I'm hoping by page fifty start showing me
(08:31):
the way. And at that point, I'm giving up each
day in writing just so I can learn what's going
to happen next.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
So are you Frankie? You just changed the name to
protect the innocent.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
You know what I love about Frankie is she speaks
to the part of all of us. It's the armchair detective.
You know, we all love to read suspense novels and
watch crime shows, and it's because we just know we
could do it. And that's Frankie. I mean, she has
no actual training, she's not law enforcement, but she's she's convinced.
What is that? And there's a line in the book
where someone says, you know, this is not your fight.
(09:07):
Frankie's like, it is always my fight. It's like i'd
know what's wrong the rest of you.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
You know, well, your books always have a very interesting character,
and this one covers a bowl constrictor as well. And
I mean I raised a nine foot bowl constrictor, so
that you're spot.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
On, i'veoud it terrifying because I guess the other thing
I do, they don't really scare me. I have to
put in the books, you know, Frankie needs a challenge, right.
This is a woman who doesn't actually have a real
job where she makes money, so if she's gone from
town to town, she has to put a roof over
her head and pet sitting house sitting is one of
those kinds of gigs, except unfortunately for her, the pets
(09:48):
and questions her poe constrictors and an iguana. And I
have a friend who would like you very much wholes
bow constrictors and had many pet iguanas. And by time
he was done telling me stories, I'm like, I'm still
not sure. I'm not terrified of this, but sure what's strutted?
Speaker 1 (10:07):
So now, when you travel, do you take your writing
with you? Because that's one thing that I do no
matter where I go. But the writing has got to
be with me because I don't know when it's going
to be received.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Oh that's kind of fun. I always have my laptop
with me and I always have ambitions to write more
than I generally get to write. But I'm with you.
I do a lot of people watching at the airports,
and I do still love to read, and I get
a lot of ideas still from reading as well. So
I feel like if you're a writer, your brain's always working.
(10:38):
It's just it's not something you can turn off.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Now where do you think that started? Because where I
started as a people watcher was I was at Yellowstone
National Park at Old Faithful and it really hit me
hard when I go I see all these people around
me today, I will never see them again. I need
to find out more about them.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Oh that's so fun. I think I've just always been
an introvert. I have a big, rowdy family. Not everyone
could be the center of it, could be the one talking.
Someone actually has to do the listening. And I remember
just iways sitting around the dinner table kind of watching
the show.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
So true, so true. Well where can people go to
find out more about you? Lisa? Because I love your
attitude about writing and sharing stories.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Oh thank you so much so. Yeah, I'm across the
social media channels at Lisa Gardner bks for books. I'm
on the web lisagardner dot com where you can do
the kill. A friend made my buddy sweepstakes and nominate
someone to die in my next novel. My god, you
know I'm trying to be helpful all the time.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Well, you got to come back to this show anytime
in the future. The door is always going to be
open for you.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Oh, I would love that. I'll see you next year,
same time, probably absolutely will.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
You'd be brilliant today.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Okay, Oh, thank you so much. You too. I love
that I'm going to be brilliant. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
See it felt good when you're saying that, didn't you.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yes I did. Affirmation is key.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Have fun today
Hello, and good morning, Lisa. How are you doing great?
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Thank you so much, Harold, good morning.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
I got to tell you you do something with your
writing that I call hidden speak, and I'm so inspired
by it because a lock to a key for a
key that has no lock, that to me, that gets
my imagination going, Oh, where did that come from? Was
she driving in the car? Did it hit you know
it's Starbucks? Where did it come from?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Well, and on all honesty, I can't even answer that question.
It just came to me one day and I didn't
even know the answer. Why.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Yeah, But don't you like that about being an author
or a writer, because things come to us when we
least expect it, and then we sit there and just
stare at it on the computer.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yeah, and I think you get just like feeling. It's
the closest you've become, really, the instinct and all this like,
I don't know what this is or where this is going,
but I know it's right. This is part of the book,
and hopefully by the time I reached the end, I
figured out the rest of this.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
The book we're talking about is Kisser Goodbye, Frankie Elkin novel.
So this is your third one what does that like
to step into that, because I mean, you've got to
keep this book in chronological order.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
This is actually the first one technically, But I do
write them a standalone. I feel like, I mean, I
love to follow a series character, but I think all
of us read so much and we're so busy. I
don't want to make someone feel like, oh, I can't
even read this book lest I go read a whole
bunch of other ones.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Well, yeah, I mean you really. You put us in
a place Tucson, Arizona, and it's so up to date,
modern and Afghan refugee is missing, and that is a
modern day world that we're presently living in.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yes, for me, Ever since I started out as a
thriller writer, most of my books have been based on
something kind of ripped from the headline. So in this
case it was also a little more personal. I happen
to meet a couple who this is what they do
for the volunteer work. They help resettle refugees in Tucson,
and they were talking to me about the challenges inherent
(02:05):
with their latest case, which was an Afghan family. And
like a lot of people I would assume, I thought
I knew what refugees were, but I didn't really know everything.
I didn't know, so I was done talking to them
and then I was like, Okay, this would make an
excellent book.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
What did you feel? I mean, what was this? Because
I mean, book ideas come to me when I'm walking
through a mall, and you know, it's like, WHOA, I
guess we're going we're going to write about this one.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
What they're really talking about was the challenges inherent. So
refugees are legally recognized, so the federal government is giving
them permission. They bringing them into the country. But here's
the fine print. You have ninety days to become self sufficient.
So you get assigned to Tucson. You don't pick where
(02:52):
you're going. It's like, okay, we're sending you to Tucson,
and here's a resettlement agency that will help you. So
that's what some of these volunteers do. I mean, it's
an urban environment with no affordable housing, but hey, you
need to find affordable housing. You may have a great
academic educational past, like I did. A family who's the
(03:13):
husband's a brilliant mathematician, the wife has the gifts with
languages from Afghanistan. We've gotten a lot of engineers and
pilots and law enforcement and lawyers and doctors. None of
that education is honored here. So yes, you're looking at
uber eats those kinds of jobs, but you need to
(03:34):
support a family. And having said all of that, I
mean you've lost your country, You've lost your extended family,
which for the Afghan community is very difficult. Their family
isn't a party of three, it should be thirty people.
So you have a lot of loss, and you have
a lot of trauma. And yet at the same time,
I kid you not, this is the best thing that
(03:56):
has happened to you. This is the best opportunity you
are going to have for future, for yourself and your children.
And talking to the refugees about this, I mean, that's drama, right,
and what is our job is not to bring that
to life.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yeah, but your drama has turned into trauma now. And
that's the twist in the story.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Well, because that's the other thing they talked about. I mean,
my character, Frankie Elkin looks for the missing no one
else was searching for, and a refugee is very vulnerable.
And I mean, in this case of this book, you know,
the young mother Sabra has only been in the country
for ten weeks. She knows no one other than like
her husband and a few of these volunteers. And the
(04:41):
volunteers are terribly overextended. It's exactly the kind of people
that can very easily fall through the cracks.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
How do you do research for a story like this?
I mean, are you a people watcher?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I am a people watcher, but I love to interview,
Like I always feel like if I wasn't an author,
you know, I would be a journalist. Thing like that.
It's probably what I share with my character Frankie Elkin.
I do genuinely love to talk to people and listen
to their stories. So for this book, and it was
very intense compared to often I'm talking to experts about,
(05:16):
you know, how to dust for fingerprints or track someone
in the woods, And in this case, it was just
talking to people. You know, where were you to day Copplefell.
You learn not to talk about certain things, do not
ask questions about refuge camps. It's just it's not a
place anyone wants to go back to. But then, okay,
now you're in the US. You know, what was the
(05:39):
biggest hurdle you were overcoming. You know, how did you
find your first employment? What do you think of trying
to roll a child in school in the US? Which
is lou bureocrapy kind of thing. And I mean the
stories were heartbreaking, they were inspirational. Talking to the people
(06:01):
who work with refugees and they're just sheer commitment because man,
it feels so impossible most of the time, and yet
none of these volunteers can look away. I mean, this
is such important.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Look, please do not move. There's more with Lisa Gardner
coming up next. The name of the book Kisser. Goodbye,
Lisa Gardner, the author. We're back. I love the way
that you're talking about these these Afghan refugees. And the
reason why is because at the grocery store there's a
group of men from Afghanistan that come in and I
have the greatest time sharing a conversation with them because
(06:36):
they're just so friendly and a lot of people go, oh,
they're from that, they're from Afghanistan, and right away they're
holding something against them. I'm going, my god, I'm getting
the greatest conversation in the world from these guys here
because I took the chance to listen to them.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Oh my goodness, one of the families had me over
for dinner. I'm like a six course dinner. I mean,
these are people that are living on the margins, but
that's hospitality. I mean, they wouldn't have it any other way.
And I'm trying to find how can I be helpful
and what kind I kind of do? And you know,
the volunteers are there who are like you will insult
(07:10):
them if you even bring a gift. I mean, I
love books that let us walk into someone else's shoes
and experience something that we wouldn't on our own and
maybe realize how many you know, misunderstandings or misinterpretations we
have of things. And boy, I certainly was learning stuff
(07:32):
every single day researching this book, and it did make
me very excited to write it because it's like, this
is interesting and kind of mind blowing to me. I'm
hoping it will be for you as well.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
You're writing discipline, what comes first the story or creating
a mystery? Or do you do the mystery first and
then build a story around.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
That the character? Yeah, so at its heart, just a
Goodby is domestic suspense. It's a story of a family. Yeah,
something's gone terribly wrong. It's kind of the classic what
goes on behind closed doors? What are the lies we
tell other people? What are the lies we tell ourselves?
(08:10):
So I'm establishing the characters first, and then I don't
actually know what happened. So, I mean, I know someone disappeared.
What kind of mystery are we talking about? It is
a violence? Is it got lost? The characters at a
certain point, I'm hoping by page fifty start showing me
(08:31):
the way. And at that point, I'm giving up each
day in writing just so I can learn what's going
to happen next.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
So are you Frankie? You just changed the name to
protect the innocent.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
You know what I love about Frankie is she speaks
to the part of all of us. It's the armchair detective.
You know, we all love to read suspense novels and
watch crime shows, and it's because we just know we
could do it. And that's Frankie. I mean, she has
no actual training, she's not law enforcement, but she's she's convinced.
What is that? And there's a line in the book
where someone says, you know, this is not your fight.
(09:07):
Frankie's like, it is always my fight. It's like i'd
know what's wrong the rest of you.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
You know, well, your books always have a very interesting character,
and this one covers a bowl constrictor as well. And
I mean I raised a nine foot bowl constrictor, so
that you're spot.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
On, i'veoud it terrifying because I guess the other thing
I do, they don't really scare me. I have to
put in the books, you know, Frankie needs a challenge, right.
This is a woman who doesn't actually have a real
job where she makes money, so if she's gone from
town to town, she has to put a roof over
her head and pet sitting house sitting is one of
those kinds of gigs, except unfortunately for her, the pets
(09:48):
and questions her poe constrictors and an iguana. And I
have a friend who would like you very much wholes
bow constrictors and had many pet iguanas. And by time
he was done telling me stories, I'm like, I'm still
not sure. I'm not terrified of this, but sure what's strutted?
Speaker 1 (10:07):
So now, when you travel, do you take your writing
with you? Because that's one thing that I do no
matter where I go. But the writing has got to
be with me because I don't know when it's going
to be received.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Oh that's kind of fun. I always have my laptop
with me and I always have ambitions to write more
than I generally get to write. But I'm with you.
I do a lot of people watching at the airports,
and I do still love to read, and I get
a lot of ideas still from reading as well. So
I feel like if you're a writer, your brain's always working.
(10:38):
It's just it's not something you can turn off.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Now where do you think that started? Because where I
started as a people watcher was I was at Yellowstone
National Park at Old Faithful and it really hit me
hard when I go I see all these people around
me today, I will never see them again. I need
to find out more about them.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Oh that's so fun. I think I've just always been
an introvert. I have a big, rowdy family. Not everyone
could be the center of it, could be the one talking.
Someone actually has to do the listening. And I remember
just iways sitting around the dinner table kind of watching
the show.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
So true, so true. Well where can people go to
find out more about you? Lisa? Because I love your
attitude about writing and sharing stories.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Oh thank you so much so. Yeah, I'm across the
social media channels at Lisa Gardner bks for books. I'm
on the web lisagardner dot com where you can do
the kill. A friend made my buddy sweepstakes and nominate
someone to die in my next novel. My god, you
know I'm trying to be helpful all the time.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Well, you got to come back to this show anytime
in the future. The door is always going to be
open for you.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Oh, I would love that. I'll see you next year,
same time, probably absolutely will.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
You'd be brilliant today.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Okay, Oh, thank you so much. You too. I love
that I'm going to be brilliant. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
See it felt good when you're saying that, didn't you.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yes I did. Affirmation is key.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Have fun today
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