December 4, 2025 • 28 mins
Deadpan's unfettered comical sensibility is a vivid testament to Mark Twain’s dictum “against the assault of laughter nothing can stand.” Set during the world-wide oil crises of the 1970s, the narrative alternates between locations in West Virginia, Las Vegas, Washington, Tehran, and Sinai, featuring characters as diverse as Sarah Palin, Mel Brooks, and the Shah of Iran. Walter’s phantasmagorical tour-de-force is not only a satirical takedown of antisemitism (and bigotry in general) but also a dazzling celebration of
human dignity, resilience, and humor.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/arroe-collins-unplugged-totally-uncut--994165/support.
human dignity, resilience, and humor.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/arroe-collins-unplugged-totally-uncut--994165/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Sure, we're on iHeartRadio, Spotify and every digital platform there is.
But why go there searching for everything we've got when
you can just go to arrow dot net A R
R O E dot net. You know, you are a
very playful writer, and you inspire me and I and
I've got seven published books and you inspire me.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Well, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Just the fact that you love to do wordplay, just
it just mesmerizes me, and it makes me want to
dig into what you're doing even more because you have
this way of taking things and really making us not
only think, but have some fun.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Well, I'm only going to let you go on like
this for an hour and a half. No, I mean,
thank you, thank you, thank you. What can I say
except thank you?
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Where did this desire to write in your style come from?
Did you? Did you pick it up along the way
because you were a fan of it first?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Not really? You know, I look at my my early
my you know, my college papers and so on, and
I don't see, Uh. I was a history major and
I had to write reports on things, and I don't
really see great promise in in in the I sort
(01:18):
of fell into it. I was going to, uh continue
for I had gotten the master's at Syracuse in the
mid sixties at the new House School of Communications. A
man my age might have been trying to avoid the military,
you know, the Vietnam War era military draft. And so
(01:43):
I was in school. I didn't really what I was
studying about, and I had I had a few weeks
to kill, and I drove to California in just a
couple of days, three days in a e W beetle,
and I ended up visiting u C l A and
then USC Film School, and I fell into I designed.
(02:06):
It was just too crazy to go back to Syracuse.
So when I could, could could be at SC where
there was so much going on, and and in Los
Angeles instead of Syracuse. So uh, I I made the change.
And it was there that I took a screenwrining pilastrophy
late and legendary ern Or Blacker, and realized I could
(02:31):
actually write a a screenplay and in and with uh,
that's that first script that I wrote. I never did
sell up to this day, but it got me top representation.
It got me a staff assignment that universally still had
(02:51):
staff writers at the studios, and I kind of never
looked back. Wow, you know, it's busy in the screenwriting.
The freelance screenwriting a racket for for you know, quite
a number of years. When I was invited to join
(03:11):
the fact of the u c l A. And in
the interim I had also written my first novel, and
I kind of just unfolded from there. I think it's
in life and in your life's narrative and then your
germanic narratives. You created dramatic narratives. It can be a
(03:34):
mistake to overplan. I'm always telling writers you've got you
need an outline. But once you got that outline written out,
trumple it up and throw it away, you know, and
stay open to the surprises. Most of the line know
who are who are happy with what they're doing, are
also surprised by what they're doing.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Wow, my daughter graduated from u c l A. So
you you own a major piece of my heart right away, and.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
I just, oh my god. Ah.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
You know, people just don't understand why did you go
from Carolina to u c l A. Well, why not?
Why not? Because I mean there's there's just something on
that canvas that says, come on down, you're about ready
to become something very big in the future.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yeah, I know it is. I ended up spending most
of my life there in Westwood. Wow. And if you're
going to spend most of your life somewhere literally on
the great University of campus, you know, just too good
to be be true. I often traveled a great, great deal.
I gave masterclasses all around the world.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
And I never you know one thing. Now that I'm elderly,
one of the things I've realized is you don't really
know what's going on while it's going on. You don't
really know it until you look back, and you know.
I've always For example, my friends were saying to me.
Someone friends had saying to me that I'm ambitious. Uh,
and ambitious can be a pejorative, although I don't think
(05:02):
it has to be. And I said to them that, no,
I don't. I said I don't feel ambitious, and they
thought I was saying I'm not ambitious. But I've explained it.
I see that I am ambitious. I have done a
great deal. I've done a lot. Dead Time is my
sixth published book and my third novel. But I don't
(05:25):
feel like a you know what. And I also have
side hustles. I'm a fact als of it now working
on my own stuff entirely. But I've been a script doctor.
I've given notes on on you know, two thousand writers
on screenplays, some of them with deals with studios. You know,
(05:46):
want want somebody asked the hard questions before they hand
it in, before the producer asks the questions, and sometimes
produces themselves want me to work with a writer and
give the notes on the script. I also have been
a a long time photo for its expert in intellectual
property issues, and I've testified again and again in intellectual
(06:11):
property litigation, copyright instringement, pleasures and few spirits, few experiences
mellow a spirit like meeting with a bunch of lawyers
and having them take new money. So you know, I've
done all of these things. But I just don't feel
like like I'm you know, like like I go get
(06:31):
her an ambitious guy. I really feel kind of lazy.
I'm up at the black of nine thirty. I spend
two hours with the with the newspapers. I just don't
know how it all, how it all happened. For forty
years at UCLA, I even swam seventeen meters that's a
(06:53):
mile of the sixteenth every day. That's my ten at
twelve thousand miles. How did I do all of that?
And the answer is I don't know.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Wow wow, yeah. But having those side hustles and those
side things, to me, that's what serves the inspiration to
writing new books, because to me, that's where the characters
are born, in a side hustle.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Yes, quite quite agree. The It's funny I was at
when when I was invited to join the faculty. He
was at a party in Malibu that had gone to
almost reluctantly, my wife said, we should really go. Hey,
the host of the party has been so generous to
(07:36):
me and so a support of my career that he'll
feel snubbed if we don't go. And as I'm walking
in the door, I was invited to to uh, you know,
somebody said, pointed at me and said to somebody else
who happened to be the head of the program at
that time, you see, this is the guy I was
talking about. When suddenly they're inviting me to join the
(07:58):
faculty like the next month, and I was not looking
for work. I was very busy. It was nineteen seventy seven,
and in the previous year my first book, which is
also my first novel had come out, the film rights
had been sold to a major studio. I was writing
the adaptation. I've been hired. Part of the deal was
(08:21):
that I would write the adaptation and I wou would
write the screenplay adaptation. I was busy, and you know,
they had a good revie in the stream. But I
don't know. Maybe it's my immigrant heritage. You just say
yes to everything. Was an opportunity to try it on.
I remember, I said to me chairman of the film
(08:42):
call at that time, wonderful, wonderful man John Young, now deceased.
I'm sorry to say, miss him every day, he I
said to him. And I'm going to have time to,
you know, do my writing. He said. Now you don't
understand that's the first your Your teaching is very important,
it's your second highest priority. This is a research university,
(09:05):
and as suppose we're teaching university and our first, the
faculty's first obligation is in the science is what they
call research and humanities scholarship, and in the arts my corner,
it's called creative activity. And that's that's my first obligation.
(09:26):
So if somebody asks me, does the university tolerate you're
having a you know, a career outside the university. The
answers know that is to say they don't, they tolerate it,
they require it. And it's on that basis that you
you are advanced to h you know, higher rank and
(09:46):
tenure and and and stuff like that. So it's it's just,
you know, almost too good to be true, and I don't.
I mean, it's kind of a perfect uh uh a
mix of things to do and very very good control
(10:07):
of your schedule. It's one thing faculty universities have the
ability to jockey and shuffle their schedule, so you can
do a lot of stuff. And that's what I did.
It was you know, it's especially a blessing to spend
your professional life working with creative people. I had wonderful
(10:31):
colleges and just amazing students, really really very very preposterously
successful students. I think they were thirteen or fourteen students
in our program who will pictures directed and or produced
by Steven Spielder, just Steven. So you know, if I
(10:55):
were working with people who learnt all that talent, that
it would still be you know, an affirmative variance. People
who are giving priority to creativity and so on. But
mot beta if you work with artists, to work with
the best artists, and that's what we had at UCLA.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Please do not move. There's more with Richard Walker coming
up next. Now here's what's going to be happening in
the moments ahead, modern day technology and weather conditions. He's
on the West coast. I'm on the East coast. Weather conditions,
a hurricane off our coast, and we still push forward.
(11:36):
And the only reason why I didn't edit it out
of this conversation was to help inspire other creative minds.
We're all going to face walls and storms. But as
you will tell from Richard and myself, you keep pushing forward.
And the keyword there is forward, and you will understand
by the time we get to this conversation what I'm
talking about the name of the book is deadpan back
(12:00):
with author Richard Walter. Yeah, I've been that broadcast instructor
where you know you've got thirteen to twenty students in there.
There's not any of them in there have a lick
of talent. And the thing is, though, is I feel like,
as the instructor go find it, it's in them. Because
they're here in class. They obviously have something that brought
them here, Go find it and help them see it
(12:22):
with you.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Yeah, well, while I was aching, too much attention is
paid to talent. Talent is important, but I've met very
few people who don't have talent. But really counts is
the combination of talent and discipline. And discipline means it's time.
It means giving you good time.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
You know, the people asked me over my career as
an educator teaching writing, what's the biggest mistake that it's made.
The answer is we write too much. Aha, everything's too long.
The the too much description and screenplays, you know, like
if you're supposed to here's a description of a waterfall
(13:06):
in a screenplay, here goes already waterfall. If you go
into the way, the light prismatically it turned into a
rainbow as it di spews into both sunshine and and
then the moisture weeps across the cranky granite rock face
and blah blah blah. You're just communicating to the reader
(13:27):
that there's a stuff, a lot of stuff. They're going
to photograph this. So I really do think economy is
the name of the game. And it's very easy to
know what to do, extremely easy to understand what you
have to do to succeed, and that is something to
(13:48):
make sure that in a screenplay, which is what I
was teaching, there are just really two MUDs of information.
What you're seeing, what you hear. The what you see
that's the action, that's what the characters the actors for
change changers what we do, and what you hear. Of course,
there's a lot of sound in a movie soundtrack, but
(14:13):
from the point of the writer, ninety nine percent of
what you hear is gonna be the dialogue. So here's
the clue, here's the trick, and if you'll do this,
you'll succeed. You'll be you'll get wealthy, and people to
be jealous of you. If you make sure that every site,
every action, that look that the characters engage in, and
(14:35):
everything that they say moves the story forward or in
some comparable, measurable, identifiable way. If you do that, you
will succeed, no question matter. So people ask, well, why
don't you know, why does everybody do that? The answer
is it seems to understand it, but to do it
(15:00):
is extremely difficult. But I think it is the most
difficult thing ever in the history of human condition. It
takes time, and it means throwing stuff away. Yep. Yeah.
I was chatting with a friend of mine, of the
late Sid Field who started the Russia Steling Walks back
in the seventies, and I remember saying, see that maturing
(15:24):
as a writer means not merely learning that you have
to throw away, but loving to throw away. Yeah. We
fall in love with us stuff and we don't want
to we don't want to get rid of it. I
can't do that. Many times I've written in the margins
of the screen person I'm making notes on as I'm
analyzing them, s I f y N. It stands for
(15:47):
save it for your novel yep. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
But what I do a thing called fermenting. I I'll
finish something and I fermented, and then I come back
as the reader. I've got to be totally disconnected as
the writer in a situation like that.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Do you do the same, Yes, I think You've hit
on something that's very fundamental, which is the schizophrenic nature
of narrative creation, gramantic narrative creation writing screenplays and for
that matter, of plays and opera, librepos and short stories
and novels, you know, literature on one hand, you have
(16:23):
to be completely subjective and lost inside of it. And
then you have to do not just something different from that,
but the opposite of that what you were describing, stepping
outside of it and coming back and looking at it
somehow objectively. So you have to be extremely subjective and
extremely objective kind of it they at the same time,
(16:45):
and it's it's a tall order. I am given to
notorious for hyperbole and exaggerating. I think exaggerating for effective
legitimate writing tool. But I'm not exenterating when I say
it's the hardest thing in the world. You know, here
in La just now this morning, the mailman delivered our mail.
(17:09):
It would seem like that's a harder job than than
my job writing. I'm looking my studio overlooking a big
resi about one hundred days fresh water, so the mountains
and I'm ten minutes from from Doctor Stadium go blue,
(17:32):
and I just work with my imagination and make stuff up.
This guy has to go to house to house, and
it was imagine if he actually decided to write, and
I would ask him to just do this, only spend
three hours a day at it, and only five days
a week. You know, the weekend off. But for three
hours every day, I want you to think carefully about
(17:57):
imagining something that's worth throwing down and then writing it down,
something that that will merit the time and the attention
and the consideration of thousands and thousands of people, uh
the the not to mention for the price of the
movie ticket. And you don't have to succeed it. You
(18:20):
just have to try for three hours every day to
do that. You'll be running away and begging to do
it the nail again, you know, and with a very
few minutes. It really is a hugely, vastly demanding enterprise,
the opposite of easy.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
You know what the secret is when it comes to
getting free movie tickets, right, go work at the theater
once or twice a week. You got free movie tickets
and half price food. Go do it, man. And so
if you've got a love for movies, go invest in
it in a theater and really participate with who is
coming into that theater.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Yeah, well, it's funny I I went to the school with.
When I went to film school, they were knocking down
people in the street to try to get them to
register this film school. There was no tradition of moving
into the professional community from film school unless he wanted
to be an usher. Describe now it's the number one way.
(19:20):
It's the it's easier to get into the Harvard Medical School,
the yes into the Harvard Medical School, and then the
screen writing program, class program, the MFA and at u
c l A. And in my class at usc was
the you know, I was at UCLA for forty years,
(19:41):
but I'm a trojan to My class was really the
first one to move from the academic community and to
take over Hollywood, except for one of my classmates, George Lucas,
who took over Marine County. He owns Marine County. I
think it's becoming the major way into the industry. It's
(20:06):
quite quite remarkable that that change.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
So then, how do you write a song? I write
a song, write a book? Why didn't you write any
music for Deadpan? Because it's screaming for music, So I'll
go there. There's got to be a soundtrack somewhere inside
you or somebody's waiting to do it. Because when you've
got a funny book that's talking about things that are
not funny, but yet you have somehow turned it into
something that's very enjoyable, that deserves a soundtrack.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Well, thank you. I'm not much of a songwriter. My
first book was actually a coming of age New York
City duop fifties, and I did turn that into a
half recently. Actually, I mean books came out almost fifty
years ago. I have turned it into a more recently
(20:57):
into a stage musical, All of Looves that that see.
But it will be a you know, produced as a
duo stage musical. The but it's a jukebox piece that
uses existing music for the most part. But I did
write two tunes for it because it's about these boys,
(21:17):
and one for making a demo and trying to trying
to get a level, to get a label, and they
don't succeed at that, but they learn, you know, that
to sing in harmony is to live in harmony something
something like that. I haven't really thought about that man
as a music though. That's very very interesting, it is.
I think that's that's a really good, good thought. Well,
(21:41):
you got to go about that.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
You you hit a major league subject here that I
can relate with in so many different ways. You wake
up one day and you are a Jewish comedian. Let
me let me share with you. I have talked with
more Jewish community comedians, not only here in the States,
but also Jewish comedians in Israel who have to be
extramely careful as to what they're saying over there. And
I'll go, are you are you careful? No, I said,
(22:05):
oh my god, what are you talking about? But but
that's why I can relate with this book, because one
day you wake up and you are the world's most
popular Jewish comedian, only because I have lived this life
with people who have done it, and I'm going this
book is about them.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Well, with art, there's no course. The most handzardous force
you can FAMA was to try to play it safe. Yeah,
you doom if you're you know, you're you're not to
worry about what you what you say, but but you
got to say it sure. And you know there's a
there's a terrible UH plague that has descended upon universities,
(22:45):
and I think also the publishing industry, which is UH,
everybody's supposed to be comfortable. Somebody wants made to feel uncomfortable.
I always thought that that as a teacher, it was
my job to make people uncomfortable, to provoke and disturb
and upset UH and going people into thinking for themselves.
(23:08):
It's not that the teaching is not about communicating data
to people. It's about getting them to think critically about
the world that they You know, that we've all that
we will live in. And then what what does the screenplay?
The last thing? You want an audience in a movie
to feel his comfort. Imagine if I mean they're going
(23:31):
to sleep on you. Imagine you're walking down the movie
there and some man of the doors open and everything
comes out, and clearly the film has just ended, and
everybody's screaming out of the and they're all sobbing. Imagine
they're all just we weep being with tears lyning in
their face. Would you see these? Wow, that must be
some sad movie. Everybody so so sad. I don't want
(23:53):
to see that movie. I've got to make sure. I
don't know you would you would go get in line
to see that movie right there? May? Yeah, because that
is what art is all a matter, especially narrative creation.
It's about making people feel something.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
I'll tell you the reason why so much of that
connection is happening these days is because these movie theaters
are starting to serve real food at at the theater.
So like when I go in there from my movie
date with my wife every week, and we have this
unbelievable dinner while watching a movie. Of course, I'm gonna
get emotionally involved with that storyline. That movie can suck
so bad, it doesn't matter. I'm moved by that movie.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Mm hmmmm hmm. Well it's funny. I you know, I'm
not an evangelical Christian and flem a Christian of any kind.
I only mention that because I was invited about fifteen
years ago to adjasc AN, the Evangelical Christian conference in
the Chicago. They were wrong. Five hundred pastors is kinda
from one mention the meeting in Chicago. Why why was
(24:55):
I uninvited? Because it was narrative in scripture. If you
look at what Jews called Torah and what Christians called
the Old Testament or what it's also sacred to Muslims
who call them the Hebrew Bible. There and if you
look at the Muslim uh New Testament, the Koran, if
(25:15):
you look at the Chish Testament, there's observations and comments
and principles and this and the well mainly there's stories
and they are not comforting. And uh, the farming stories
you know the letter, first story in the letter, first
book of the Bible, again held sacred by everybody. Uh.
(25:37):
In Genesis there's the story of Luck, an old man
whose daughters get him drunk so they can have sex
with him one one night, one the next night because
they're hoping I have a child Incestuously. This is not
a national letter, This is only only scripture. And I
would tell them, I would tell the creatures what I
would tell stream writers. If you want keep people in
(26:01):
the church someday morning, even after they leave a church,
by which I mean they're thinking about your sermon. If
it was a really good sermon, they should be hosting
it and thinking about the rest of the day and
what about the mass of the week, if it was
really profound to achieve of that. You do not have
(26:22):
to make people feel good. You just have to make
them feel yep. Yeah, scare them has to death, make
them cry, and make them angry. Anything is allowed. We
only have one rule that UCLA three words. You can
write anything you want, but don't be boring. Yeah that's
(26:43):
a tall order. That's a tall order. It's very hard
not to not to be boring for two hours. Never
mind that ten or twenty hours, or more than it
takes to read a novel, like even a short novel
like mine, I Humble Ed Van, which is about the
under sixty pigs in Trent Boy. It takes some doing
(27:06):
to invent enough of material that will engage people for
that long.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
I'm shocked that you didn't do radio, only because you
are speaking a street that I have learned for the
past forty six years. Number one, don't be boring. Number
two forward motion. But the thing is, though, Richard, did
I change you to forward emotion? If I can get
you emotionally and I'm moving you forward, I win? Oh
did we get disconnected? Oh no, oh no, oh no, okay,
(27:33):
that's how it goes. Oh and as a restricted number,
so I don't have the number anymore. So, oh crap,
that's what happens. I mean, I was only scheduled to
do ten minutes with him, and blessed to have twenty
five minutes with him. So I'm sure that the the
podcast gods are saying, spank. You actually got twenty eight
minutes with him, So that was such a blessing. So
(27:54):
and maybe that wasn't even supposed to ask that question.
That's one thing as a podcast. You sit there and
you go, Okay, did I ask one too many questions?
And is the podcast gods looking down on you going?
You know, I would have asked that a little bit earlier.
You know, you let it go, move forward, ask it
to somebody else. But my god, that was That was
absolutely one of the most amazing conversations, and mainly because
(28:15):
he's he's a he's a writing instructor, and writing is
my life. It is Everything that I do is all
about writing. So what a blessing to have spent that
time with him. It was just so so encouraging.
Sure, we're on iHeartRadio, Spotify and every digital platform there is.
But why go there searching for everything we've got when
you can just go to arrow dot net A R
R O E dot net. You know, you are a
very playful writer, and you inspire me and I and
I've got seven published books and you inspire me.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Well, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Just the fact that you love to do wordplay, just
it just mesmerizes me, and it makes me want to
dig into what you're doing even more because you have
this way of taking things and really making us not
only think, but have some fun.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Well, I'm only going to let you go on like
this for an hour and a half. No, I mean,
thank you, thank you, thank you. What can I say
except thank you?
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Where did this desire to write in your style come from?
Did you? Did you pick it up along the way
because you were a fan of it first?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Not really? You know, I look at my my early
my you know, my college papers and so on, and
I don't see, Uh. I was a history major and
I had to write reports on things, and I don't
really see great promise in in in the I sort
(01:18):
of fell into it. I was going to, uh continue
for I had gotten the master's at Syracuse in the
mid sixties at the new House School of Communications. A
man my age might have been trying to avoid the military,
you know, the Vietnam War era military draft. And so
(01:43):
I was in school. I didn't really what I was
studying about, and I had I had a few weeks
to kill, and I drove to California in just a
couple of days, three days in a e W beetle,
and I ended up visiting u C l A and
then USC Film School, and I fell into I designed.
(02:06):
It was just too crazy to go back to Syracuse.
So when I could, could could be at SC where
there was so much going on, and and in Los
Angeles instead of Syracuse. So uh, I I made the change.
And it was there that I took a screenwrining pilastrophy
late and legendary ern Or Blacker, and realized I could
(02:31):
actually write a a screenplay and in and with uh,
that's that first script that I wrote. I never did
sell up to this day, but it got me top representation.
It got me a staff assignment that universally still had
(02:51):
staff writers at the studios, and I kind of never
looked back. Wow, you know, it's busy in the screenwriting.
The freelance screenwriting a racket for for you know, quite
a number of years. When I was invited to join
(03:11):
the fact of the u c l A. And in
the interim I had also written my first novel, and
I kind of just unfolded from there. I think it's
in life and in your life's narrative and then your
germanic narratives. You created dramatic narratives. It can be a
(03:34):
mistake to overplan. I'm always telling writers you've got you
need an outline. But once you got that outline written out,
trumple it up and throw it away, you know, and
stay open to the surprises. Most of the line know
who are who are happy with what they're doing, are
also surprised by what they're doing.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Wow, my daughter graduated from u c l A. So
you you own a major piece of my heart right away, and.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
I just, oh my god. Ah.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
You know, people just don't understand why did you go
from Carolina to u c l A. Well, why not?
Why not? Because I mean there's there's just something on
that canvas that says, come on down, you're about ready
to become something very big in the future.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yeah, I know it is. I ended up spending most
of my life there in Westwood. Wow. And if you're
going to spend most of your life somewhere literally on
the great University of campus, you know, just too good
to be be true. I often traveled a great, great deal.
I gave masterclasses all around the world.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
And I never you know one thing. Now that I'm elderly,
one of the things I've realized is you don't really
know what's going on while it's going on. You don't
really know it until you look back, and you know.
I've always For example, my friends were saying to me.
Someone friends had saying to me that I'm ambitious. Uh,
and ambitious can be a pejorative, although I don't think
(05:02):
it has to be. And I said to them that, no,
I don't. I said I don't feel ambitious, and they
thought I was saying I'm not ambitious. But I've explained it.
I see that I am ambitious. I have done a
great deal. I've done a lot. Dead Time is my
sixth published book and my third novel. But I don't
(05:25):
feel like a you know what. And I also have
side hustles. I'm a fact als of it now working
on my own stuff entirely. But I've been a script doctor.
I've given notes on on you know, two thousand writers
on screenplays, some of them with deals with studios. You know,
(05:46):
want want somebody asked the hard questions before they hand
it in, before the producer asks the questions, and sometimes
produces themselves want me to work with a writer and
give the notes on the script. I also have been
a a long time photo for its expert in intellectual
property issues, and I've testified again and again in intellectual
(06:11):
property litigation, copyright instringement, pleasures and few spirits, few experiences
mellow a spirit like meeting with a bunch of lawyers
and having them take new money. So you know, I've
done all of these things. But I just don't feel
like like I'm you know, like like I go get
(06:31):
her an ambitious guy. I really feel kind of lazy.
I'm up at the black of nine thirty. I spend
two hours with the with the newspapers. I just don't
know how it all, how it all happened. For forty
years at UCLA, I even swam seventeen meters that's a
(06:53):
mile of the sixteenth every day. That's my ten at
twelve thousand miles. How did I do all of that?
And the answer is I don't know.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Wow wow, yeah. But having those side hustles and those
side things, to me, that's what serves the inspiration to
writing new books, because to me, that's where the characters
are born, in a side hustle.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Yes, quite quite agree. The It's funny I was at
when when I was invited to join the faculty. He
was at a party in Malibu that had gone to
almost reluctantly, my wife said, we should really go. Hey,
the host of the party has been so generous to
(07:36):
me and so a support of my career that he'll
feel snubbed if we don't go. And as I'm walking
in the door, I was invited to to uh, you know,
somebody said, pointed at me and said to somebody else
who happened to be the head of the program at
that time, you see, this is the guy I was
talking about. When suddenly they're inviting me to join the
(07:58):
faculty like the next month, and I was not looking
for work. I was very busy. It was nineteen seventy seven,
and in the previous year my first book, which is
also my first novel had come out, the film rights
had been sold to a major studio. I was writing
the adaptation. I've been hired. Part of the deal was
(08:21):
that I would write the adaptation and I wou would
write the screenplay adaptation. I was busy, and you know,
they had a good revie in the stream. But I
don't know. Maybe it's my immigrant heritage. You just say
yes to everything. Was an opportunity to try it on.
I remember, I said to me chairman of the film
(08:42):
call at that time, wonderful, wonderful man John Young, now deceased.
I'm sorry to say, miss him every day, he I
said to him. And I'm going to have time to,
you know, do my writing. He said. Now you don't
understand that's the first your Your teaching is very important,
it's your second highest priority. This is a research university,
(09:05):
and as suppose we're teaching university and our first, the
faculty's first obligation is in the science is what they
call research and humanities scholarship, and in the arts my corner,
it's called creative activity. And that's that's my first obligation.
(09:26):
So if somebody asks me, does the university tolerate you're
having a you know, a career outside the university. The
answers know that is to say they don't, they tolerate it,
they require it. And it's on that basis that you
you are advanced to h you know, higher rank and
(09:46):
tenure and and and stuff like that. So it's it's just,
you know, almost too good to be true, and I don't.
I mean, it's kind of a perfect uh uh a
mix of things to do and very very good control
(10:07):
of your schedule. It's one thing faculty universities have the
ability to jockey and shuffle their schedule, so you can
do a lot of stuff. And that's what I did.
It was you know, it's especially a blessing to spend
your professional life working with creative people. I had wonderful
(10:31):
colleges and just amazing students, really really very very preposterously
successful students. I think they were thirteen or fourteen students
in our program who will pictures directed and or produced
by Steven Spielder, just Steven. So you know, if I
(10:55):
were working with people who learnt all that talent, that
it would still be you know, an affirmative variance. People
who are giving priority to creativity and so on. But
mot beta if you work with artists, to work with
the best artists, and that's what we had at UCLA.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Please do not move. There's more with Richard Walker coming
up next. Now here's what's going to be happening in
the moments ahead, modern day technology and weather conditions. He's
on the West coast. I'm on the East coast. Weather conditions,
a hurricane off our coast, and we still push forward.
(11:36):
And the only reason why I didn't edit it out
of this conversation was to help inspire other creative minds.
We're all going to face walls and storms. But as
you will tell from Richard and myself, you keep pushing forward.
And the keyword there is forward, and you will understand
by the time we get to this conversation what I'm
talking about the name of the book is deadpan back
(12:00):
with author Richard Walter. Yeah, I've been that broadcast instructor
where you know you've got thirteen to twenty students in there.
There's not any of them in there have a lick
of talent. And the thing is, though, is I feel like,
as the instructor go find it, it's in them. Because
they're here in class. They obviously have something that brought
them here, Go find it and help them see it
(12:22):
with you.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Yeah, well, while I was aching, too much attention is
paid to talent. Talent is important, but I've met very
few people who don't have talent. But really counts is
the combination of talent and discipline. And discipline means it's time.
It means giving you good time.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
You know, the people asked me over my career as
an educator teaching writing, what's the biggest mistake that it's made.
The answer is we write too much. Aha, everything's too long.
The the too much description and screenplays, you know, like
if you're supposed to here's a description of a waterfall
(13:06):
in a screenplay, here goes already waterfall. If you go
into the way, the light prismatically it turned into a
rainbow as it di spews into both sunshine and and
then the moisture weeps across the cranky granite rock face
and blah blah blah. You're just communicating to the reader
(13:27):
that there's a stuff, a lot of stuff. They're going
to photograph this. So I really do think economy is
the name of the game. And it's very easy to
know what to do, extremely easy to understand what you
have to do to succeed, and that is something to
(13:48):
make sure that in a screenplay, which is what I
was teaching, there are just really two MUDs of information.
What you're seeing, what you hear. The what you see
that's the action, that's what the characters the actors for
change changers what we do, and what you hear. Of course,
there's a lot of sound in a movie soundtrack, but
(14:13):
from the point of the writer, ninety nine percent of
what you hear is gonna be the dialogue. So here's
the clue, here's the trick, and if you'll do this,
you'll succeed. You'll be you'll get wealthy, and people to
be jealous of you. If you make sure that every site,
every action, that look that the characters engage in, and
(14:35):
everything that they say moves the story forward or in
some comparable, measurable, identifiable way. If you do that, you
will succeed, no question matter. So people ask, well, why
don't you know, why does everybody do that? The answer
is it seems to understand it, but to do it
(15:00):
is extremely difficult. But I think it is the most
difficult thing ever in the history of human condition. It
takes time, and it means throwing stuff away. Yep. Yeah.
I was chatting with a friend of mine, of the
late Sid Field who started the Russia Steling Walks back
in the seventies, and I remember saying, see that maturing
(15:24):
as a writer means not merely learning that you have
to throw away, but loving to throw away. Yeah. We
fall in love with us stuff and we don't want
to we don't want to get rid of it. I
can't do that. Many times I've written in the margins
of the screen person I'm making notes on as I'm
analyzing them, s I f y N. It stands for
(15:47):
save it for your novel yep. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
But what I do a thing called fermenting. I I'll
finish something and I fermented, and then I come back
as the reader. I've got to be totally disconnected as
the writer in a situation like that.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Do you do the same, Yes, I think You've hit
on something that's very fundamental, which is the schizophrenic nature
of narrative creation, gramantic narrative creation writing screenplays and for
that matter, of plays and opera, librepos and short stories
and novels, you know, literature on one hand, you have
(16:23):
to be completely subjective and lost inside of it. And
then you have to do not just something different from that,
but the opposite of that what you were describing, stepping
outside of it and coming back and looking at it
somehow objectively. So you have to be extremely subjective and
extremely objective kind of it they at the same time,
(16:45):
and it's it's a tall order. I am given to
notorious for hyperbole and exaggerating. I think exaggerating for effective
legitimate writing tool. But I'm not exenterating when I say
it's the hardest thing in the world. You know, here
in La just now this morning, the mailman delivered our mail.
(17:09):
It would seem like that's a harder job than than
my job writing. I'm looking my studio overlooking a big
resi about one hundred days fresh water, so the mountains
and I'm ten minutes from from Doctor Stadium go blue,
(17:32):
and I just work with my imagination and make stuff up.
This guy has to go to house to house, and
it was imagine if he actually decided to write, and
I would ask him to just do this, only spend
three hours a day at it, and only five days
a week. You know, the weekend off. But for three
hours every day, I want you to think carefully about
(17:57):
imagining something that's worth throwing down and then writing it down,
something that that will merit the time and the attention
and the consideration of thousands and thousands of people, uh
the the not to mention for the price of the
movie ticket. And you don't have to succeed it. You
(18:20):
just have to try for three hours every day to
do that. You'll be running away and begging to do
it the nail again, you know, and with a very
few minutes. It really is a hugely, vastly demanding enterprise,
the opposite of easy.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
You know what the secret is when it comes to
getting free movie tickets, right, go work at the theater
once or twice a week. You got free movie tickets
and half price food. Go do it, man. And so
if you've got a love for movies, go invest in
it in a theater and really participate with who is
coming into that theater.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Yeah, well, it's funny I I went to the school with.
When I went to film school, they were knocking down
people in the street to try to get them to
register this film school. There was no tradition of moving
into the professional community from film school unless he wanted
to be an usher. Describe now it's the number one way.
(19:20):
It's the it's easier to get into the Harvard Medical School,
the yes into the Harvard Medical School, and then the
screen writing program, class program, the MFA and at u
c l A. And in my class at usc was
the you know, I was at UCLA for forty years,
(19:41):
but I'm a trojan to My class was really the
first one to move from the academic community and to
take over Hollywood, except for one of my classmates, George Lucas,
who took over Marine County. He owns Marine County. I
think it's becoming the major way into the industry. It's
(20:06):
quite quite remarkable that that change.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
So then, how do you write a song? I write
a song, write a book? Why didn't you write any
music for Deadpan? Because it's screaming for music, So I'll
go there. There's got to be a soundtrack somewhere inside
you or somebody's waiting to do it. Because when you've
got a funny book that's talking about things that are
not funny, but yet you have somehow turned it into
something that's very enjoyable, that deserves a soundtrack.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Well, thank you. I'm not much of a songwriter. My
first book was actually a coming of age New York
City duop fifties, and I did turn that into a
half recently. Actually, I mean books came out almost fifty
years ago. I have turned it into a more recently
(20:57):
into a stage musical, All of Looves that that see.
But it will be a you know, produced as a
duo stage musical. The but it's a jukebox piece that
uses existing music for the most part. But I did
write two tunes for it because it's about these boys,
(21:17):
and one for making a demo and trying to trying
to get a level, to get a label, and they
don't succeed at that, but they learn, you know, that
to sing in harmony is to live in harmony something
something like that. I haven't really thought about that man
as a music though. That's very very interesting, it is.
I think that's that's a really good, good thought. Well,
(21:41):
you got to go about that.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
You you hit a major league subject here that I
can relate with in so many different ways. You wake
up one day and you are a Jewish comedian. Let
me let me share with you. I have talked with
more Jewish community comedians, not only here in the States,
but also Jewish comedians in Israel who have to be
extramely careful as to what they're saying over there. And
I'll go, are you are you careful? No, I said,
(22:05):
oh my god, what are you talking about? But but
that's why I can relate with this book, because one
day you wake up and you are the world's most
popular Jewish comedian, only because I have lived this life
with people who have done it, and I'm going this
book is about them.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Well, with art, there's no course. The most handzardous force
you can FAMA was to try to play it safe. Yeah,
you doom if you're you know, you're you're not to
worry about what you what you say, but but you
got to say it sure. And you know there's a
there's a terrible UH plague that has descended upon universities,
(22:45):
and I think also the publishing industry, which is UH,
everybody's supposed to be comfortable. Somebody wants made to feel uncomfortable.
I always thought that that as a teacher, it was
my job to make people uncomfortable, to provoke and disturb
and upset UH and going people into thinking for themselves.
(23:08):
It's not that the teaching is not about communicating data
to people. It's about getting them to think critically about
the world that they You know, that we've all that
we will live in. And then what what does the screenplay?
The last thing? You want an audience in a movie
to feel his comfort. Imagine if I mean they're going
(23:31):
to sleep on you. Imagine you're walking down the movie
there and some man of the doors open and everything
comes out, and clearly the film has just ended, and
everybody's screaming out of the and they're all sobbing. Imagine
they're all just we weep being with tears lyning in
their face. Would you see these? Wow, that must be
some sad movie. Everybody so so sad. I don't want
(23:53):
to see that movie. I've got to make sure. I
don't know you would you would go get in line
to see that movie right there? May? Yeah, because that
is what art is all a matter, especially narrative creation.
It's about making people feel something.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
I'll tell you the reason why so much of that
connection is happening these days is because these movie theaters
are starting to serve real food at at the theater.
So like when I go in there from my movie
date with my wife every week, and we have this
unbelievable dinner while watching a movie. Of course, I'm gonna
get emotionally involved with that storyline. That movie can suck
so bad, it doesn't matter. I'm moved by that movie.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Mm hmmmm hmm. Well it's funny. I you know, I'm
not an evangelical Christian and flem a Christian of any kind.
I only mention that because I was invited about fifteen
years ago to adjasc AN, the Evangelical Christian conference in
the Chicago. They were wrong. Five hundred pastors is kinda
from one mention the meeting in Chicago. Why why was
(24:55):
I uninvited? Because it was narrative in scripture. If you
look at what Jews called Torah and what Christians called
the Old Testament or what it's also sacred to Muslims
who call them the Hebrew Bible. There and if you
look at the Muslim uh New Testament, the Koran, if
(25:15):
you look at the Chish Testament, there's observations and comments
and principles and this and the well mainly there's stories
and they are not comforting. And uh, the farming stories
you know the letter, first story in the letter, first
book of the Bible, again held sacred by everybody. Uh.
(25:37):
In Genesis there's the story of Luck, an old man
whose daughters get him drunk so they can have sex
with him one one night, one the next night because
they're hoping I have a child Incestuously. This is not
a national letter, This is only only scripture. And I
would tell them, I would tell the creatures what I
would tell stream writers. If you want keep people in
(26:01):
the church someday morning, even after they leave a church,
by which I mean they're thinking about your sermon. If
it was a really good sermon, they should be hosting
it and thinking about the rest of the day and
what about the mass of the week, if it was
really profound to achieve of that. You do not have
(26:22):
to make people feel good. You just have to make
them feel yep. Yeah, scare them has to death, make
them cry, and make them angry. Anything is allowed. We
only have one rule that UCLA three words. You can
write anything you want, but don't be boring. Yeah that's
(26:43):
a tall order. That's a tall order. It's very hard
not to not to be boring for two hours. Never
mind that ten or twenty hours, or more than it
takes to read a novel, like even a short novel
like mine, I Humble Ed Van, which is about the
under sixty pigs in Trent Boy. It takes some doing
(27:06):
to invent enough of material that will engage people for
that long.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
I'm shocked that you didn't do radio, only because you
are speaking a street that I have learned for the
past forty six years. Number one, don't be boring. Number
two forward motion. But the thing is, though, Richard, did
I change you to forward emotion? If I can get
you emotionally and I'm moving you forward, I win? Oh
did we get disconnected? Oh no, oh no, oh no, okay,
(27:33):
that's how it goes. Oh and as a restricted number,
so I don't have the number anymore. So, oh crap,
that's what happens. I mean, I was only scheduled to
do ten minutes with him, and blessed to have twenty
five minutes with him. So I'm sure that the the
podcast gods are saying, spank. You actually got twenty eight
minutes with him, So that was such a blessing. So
(27:54):
and maybe that wasn't even supposed to ask that question.
That's one thing as a podcast. You sit there and
you go, Okay, did I ask one too many questions?
And is the podcast gods looking down on you going?
You know, I would have asked that a little bit earlier.
You know, you let it go, move forward, ask it
to somebody else. But my god, that was That was
absolutely one of the most amazing conversations, and mainly because
(28:15):
he's he's a he's a writing instructor, and writing is
my life. It is Everything that I do is all
about writing. So what a blessing to have spent that
time with him. It was just so so encouraging.
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