December 26, 2025 • 19 mins
Pod Crashing episode 427 with Bridget Armstrong from the podcast Curse of America’s Next Top Model. When America's Next Top Model premiered in the early 2000s, it looked like a golden ticket: a glamorous TV show that could catapult aspiring models into fame. But two decades later, many contestants describe its aftermath as a curse. Hosted by pop-culture journalist Bridget Armstrong, Curse of: America's Next Top Model is a deep investigation into the hidden costs of reality television, and what the show's legacy reveals about beauty, power, and the culture that cheered it on. Through conversations with dozens of former contestants, producers and crew members, Curse of: America's Next Top Model explores what happened behind the scenes on one of the most iconic and problematic reality shows of our generation.The series starts off by exploring how ANTM almost didn't get made. You'll get the real story behind the show's most infamous controversies. Then, the models and producers pull back the curtain and talk about how the most outrageous photoshoots and runaways came together. You'll hear from contestants who say ANTM saved their lives and from those who say it ruined theirs. The contestants also talk about how the body shaming they experienced on the show caused lifelong scars. Finally, we try to answer the question, is Tyra Banks the ultimate reality television villain? Curse of: America's Next Top Model takes you on an investigative journey to figure out if the so-called curse is real? And if so, what was the toll on the models, and us, the audience?EPISODES AVAILABLE HEREHttps://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-curse-of-americas-next-to-292261592/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
When creating aerow dot net, it was my goal to
tap into your life and style, not say this is
the way that it is followed by my rules. I mean,
I know your life is filled with sports, spiritual journeys,
as well as your love for spine tingling mysteries from
amazing new authors. Ero dot net a r r oe
(00:20):
dot net. Everything has its own channel, it's for you
to explore. Hey, welcome back to the conversation. Let's do
some pod crashing. Episode number four twenty seven is with
Bridget Armstrong from the podcast Curse of America's Next Stop Model.
Good morning, Bridget, how are you doing today?
Speaker 3 (00:40):
I'm good? How about you?
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Er fantastic and very excited to share a conversation with
you because this podcast really opened up my eyes and
it also scared the crap out of me because I
didn't know any of this was taking place. I mean,
I'm one of those people, you know, where everybody thinks
everybody lives happily ever after, and oh my god, this
is so beautiful. We're opening up the door for other
creative peace people and then we get to be taken
(01:01):
behind the scenes like you've shown, and it like, oh,
that's right. This stuff does happen.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
So one thing about this podcast, and one thing we
discovered is that, you know, we als would have thought
that I started watching this in high school, so I thought, like,
this is a glimpse into the modeling.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
World, yep.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
And what we find out is that this is a
reality show, right, which is something that I think clicks
for us these days because.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Reality TV has been around for so long.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
But back when America's Next Top Model premiere, it had
been on for like two or three years. So we thought,
you know, a lot of what we were seeing was real,
and it just turns out that's not the case. And
what they did to achieve having a great TV show
wasn't always great for the models, for the contestant who
were on that show.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Well, you brought up something very interesting, you said, reality show.
And I can relate with that because one of my
podcasts is based on life at a grocery store and
there are many times as the producer and as one
of the talent on the show that I will sit
there and I should I prefabricate this, and I go, no,
this has got to be real, because retail people will
call me out in a heartbeat. So I mean, I
(02:07):
just sit there and I wonder did anybody ever call
this show out saying you wrote that into the script
that didn't really happen.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Well, what's interesting is there were lots of models who
today are saying, you know, this didn't really happen or
this is not how.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
This went down.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
But a lot of the models signed NBA's so they
couldn't talk about those things for years later.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
They couldn't talk about it.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Some of them are able to talk about it now,
right because the show was until twenty eighteen, so a
lot of them couldn't speak out.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
But behind the scenes, when these models would leave.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
The show and go to like actual modeling agencies, right
like they've been on TV, everybody seeing them work with
Tyra Banks. They have this portfolio, so neil like their
career is supposed to start.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
So when they would go to.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Actual agencies, the agencies would laugh in their faces but
wouldn't know what to do with them because the people
that the agencies knew what they were watching wasn't realistic.
This isn't how modeling is in the real world, and
so they didn't take the contestants seriously. So imagine You've
gone through all of this for nine to ten however
many weeks, you know, ever many weeks you were actually
on the show. You've been humiliated, you haven't slept, You've
(03:12):
had to do all these ridiculous challenges. You're being hung
off the side of a building and told to smise,
and then you find out that you did all of
that for nothing. If your dream ultimately is to become
a supermodel, a top model, which is what the show promised, see.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
And what that does? That redefines that word curse that
you're using, curse of America's Next Top Model, because the
curse basically is the fact that you stepped into something.
Is it that situation of you knew what it was
when you picked it up?
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Well, I don't think that's the argu mean for the models.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
For me, when I got into this, I mean, after
a while, I mean it's like, Okay, I know what
this show is about, but come on, it's national attention.
They're gonna love me, okay, you know, because what's not
to love about me? Oh, let's do it. And then
all of a sudden you're getting your butt beat.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Absolutely, I think that's a big part of it. Also,
you get to look at. This show was on for
twenty four seasons, twenty four cycles as they call it,
and I think the contestants on the first seasons didn't
know quite what they were getting into. I think they
are some of the people who can actually have like
this cover up. I did not know what this was
(04:18):
going to be. I actually thought it was a model
in competition. And then, of course there are others who
got on the show and realized, Okay, maybe I might
not become a top model, but I might get some fame, right,
Like I might be able to further my career in entertainment.
I actually talked to a contestant who was on the
last seasons.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
I know a lot of people didn't necessarily see.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
It for the last seasons, but the last seasons they
did three co ed seasons, so they had guy and
girls girl models.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
And I spoke to a guy who was on that
first season, that first season.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Of co ed, and he said he knew that it
wasn't going to be making him gg I D Like,
he knew he wasn't going to be a top model.
He was an entertainer, he's a singer, he was an actor,
and he thought being on this show, like I can,
I can, I can model, I'm tall, I'm really attractive,
but I think being on the show will help further
my career. But that is something separate from how you
(05:11):
think you'll be treated.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Right. A person can go on and say, Okay, I'm
very clear out about this.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
I know I'm not going to necessarily become you know,
on the covers of Vogue. But they don't necessarily know
how they're going to be manipulated behind the scenes.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Right.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
A lot of models went into this thinking I'll get
a fair shake. If I go and do well, I'll
get far. But a lot of times the winners were
being manipulated by producers based on who had the best story,
based on who would be interesting for the cameras. And
so I think that's something that you don't really know
until you're on the show, that like, wow, I'm not
(05:47):
necessarily going to be treated the way I wanted to
be treated or how I thought this was going to go.
Even if you went into a knowing okay, I may
not become a model from this.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
See this. This is the power of a creator of mind,
where we sit there and we think we can bind
the story to make it believable in things. And it's
like it's sitting right there in front of each and
every one of us, because we have to go to
those board meetings and everybody goes, Okay, you know, we
kind of slipped in the ratings. What can we do
to create some drama. We've got to have something here
that's gonna you know, let's put this person up against
(06:17):
this person. I mean, it's so easy to do because
the viewer wants to see it. We watch daytime soap
operas every day.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Absolutely, and that's something I spuck with the creative producer
who was on like the latter seasons, right, and one
of the things he told me is they would a
creative producer in this sense is the person who comes
up with all those ridiculous runway challenges. They come up
with all of the over the top photo shoots' that's
their job to design these things. You have to think,
(06:46):
on a season of Top Model, you have anywhere from
like twelve to fifteen of those. And so he said
when he came along by season I think fifteen, they've
done everything. He would come up with something that he's like, no,
this is going to get them. He presented to Tyra
Banks and her team and they'd be like, you know,
we did that sorry, episode three, season.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Six, And so he had to come up with something.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
That had to top that, And so I asked him
about that. I was like, you know, like, weren't you
encourage to like make it even more ridiculous?
Speaker 3 (07:14):
He was like absolutely.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
One of the he told me about some of the
photo shoots of whence he came up with one of them.
They were at the Macaw Tower. That's a that's a
tower in Macau, China. It looks exactly like the CN
Tower in Toronto. That's that tower with a little needle
on it, of course, and then the models had to
go to the very very top and go out on
the ledge and do a photo shoot. Yes, mind you,
(07:40):
it was raining, it was windy. He was like, it
may have been even hailing. And I talked to one
of the models, the model who won that season. I
talked to one of the models.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
He said her biggest fear was heights, and she confirmed it.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Was hailing, and they had to go out there and
try to look fierce while they are scared to death.
Of course they were in a harness, right, but like that,
that's not what your mind thinks about. When you're like
on the side of a seven hundred foot building, you're thinking,
what if this tigness malfunctions?
Speaker 3 (08:06):
What if I slip off of this? But you can't
let those thoughts.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
They couldn't let those thoughts sort of get in the
way because they were supposed to take a great picture,
or so they were told. Because the whole point in
them doing that is so we could see the models,
you know, be really terrified, be really afraid, and see
what that drama sort of produces.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
So when you're at like, you know, Cycle eighteen, that's
when that happened.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
When you're on Cycle eighteen and you're trying to top
seventeen seasons before and which they've done all of the
top stuff, you know, you end up hanging models off
the side of the seven hundred foot building because, like
you said, the ratings are slipping, you want people to
still watch, and these are the things they're tuning in for.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
See. I can relate with this, bridget And the reason
why is because, as that radio host, I was the
dude that sat there in my Doboken martial arts, my
second degree black belt and let a US military man
shoot a paintball gun at me just to see if
it hurts. And then I was the dude that would
pour saw into an open wound on my hand because
that's what people talk about. You want them to turn
it into a water cooler conversation.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Absolutely, And actually I started out in radio too, and
you get it, I get it. My third job, I
was working at a public radio fish in Baltimore, and
there was a pastor who was doing this campaign to
get people to vote, and so he went on the
top of the roof of a building and camped out there.
(09:27):
He was on a camp there until a certain percentage
of people from his community voted.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
And so I was like, well, I'll just go up
there with him. So there I am climbing up this.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Ladder on the side of a building because I thought
it would be a good story.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
So I absolutely relate to it too.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Please do not move. We are just getting started with
Bridget Armstrong, the name of the podcast Curse of America's
Next Top Model. We are back with Bridget Armstrong. Tell
me you did not cry a tear during this story,
because you can't help but sit there and have so
much emotion for somebody who physically won the show but
(10:04):
had nothing, absolutely nothing.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Yo Wanna Sorry was one of the most heartbreaking, and
partially because I remember yo Wanna, Remember ya Wanna vividly.
Yo Wanna was the one who took that iconic helmet
photo and it's just her face and she's looking straight
onto the camera. A lot of viewers will remember yo Wanna.
Ya Wanna left the show, and this is something I
didn't realize. In the first seasons of America's Next Top Model,
(10:28):
there was no monetary prize, so the winner was winning
a contract, but that contract wasn't necessarily tied to a
certain amount of money. That winner was getting agency representation,
but again it wasn't a connected to money, so Yoana
had to use her money. She actually used the per diems,
which was a really small amount of money they got
every day. She just saved hers every day. She used
(10:49):
her money to move to New York, and when she
got to New York, she one found out that she
couldn't use her portfolio from Top Model.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Because it wasn't realistic enough.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
So she had to go take all these new pictures
with these fancy photographers, and she was being charged for that.
She was being sent in wardrobe because she had to
do all these appearances because she's the winner of America's
Next Top Model and the show was huge then, but
she was being charged for that. Yo Wanna ended up
sleeping on the couch of a makeup art because she
could not afford to pay for anywhere to live in
(11:20):
New York City. Yo Wanna was broke the first years
of Top Model. And one thing she told me, she
modeled for a bit, but she also got into hosting
and that is kind of how she made money and
built a career.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
But from Top Model, yes she was in debt.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
She still had to do promo for Top Model, and
she could never say, oh, by the way, this isn't
as great as it looks, I'm paying for all this
stuff and I'm broke because she signed in NBA, she
couldn't talk trash about the show. And so when you
think about these iconic winners, the people who really put
A ANDTM on the map, and you think, wow, even
they had a tough time after the show, while even
they were broke, you know, it really starts to put
(11:57):
stuff into perspective.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
You know, I got to chase and then more and
more I dug into this podcast. The more and more.
I mean, it has been well written, so we can
say it that. You know, Tyra Banks, you know, is
one of the most feared villains on reality TV. And
I got to tell you and you might be able
to relate with this. Being a radio person, I think
she's perfect for radio station programming, because that's exactly what
we need in leadership when it comes to radio. Somebody
(12:19):
who's going to step in there and really bring the game.
And if you get hurt, you knew.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
What it was.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Absolutely I went into this podcast thinking like, Okay, this
is we're going to talk about the real side, what
really happened behind the scenes. But also, you know, I
was a fan of the show, so we're going to
like also appreciate that and appreciate Tyra. The more interviews
I did, the more research I did, I came to
the conclusion that I think Tyra Banks is an evil genius.
(12:49):
I really do, because this is a reason why the
show had so many viewers, why it was on for
so long. And I think a lot of people think
Tyra was just sort of a host or just a
pretty face.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
We need a model to host this model show.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
This was Tyra Banks's idea Tyra Banks came up with
the concept for America's Next Time Model and she yes.
She brought it to her executive producer kN Mock. They
shopped it around to networks. They ended up getting picked up,
But this was Tyra's entire idea, and I think initially
Tyra shopped the idea around the networks and they thought
it was going to be a bad idea. She had
(13:23):
an agent who actually told her nobody wants to see models,
They're unsympathetic. But Tyra was like, no, I have it
hit like this is not going to be good, and
she was right.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
And if you look at so.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Much of the creative that went into that show, Tyra
Banks had a say in it. And I think she
really understands program. I means she really understands television. I
found out that if Tyra Banks didn't pursue modeling, she
was going to school to pursue maths calm.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
She wanted to be like n TV, which.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
I thought was really interesting and she I think she
really understands television and what viewers want to see and
what makes interesting television. But like you're saying, sometimes that
is not what's always best for the contestants. For the
people that are there. You have to make card decisions,
You have to make difficult decisions, and sometimes those decisions
(14:13):
don't age well.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
So we're talking about the curse of America's Next Top Model.
Twenty years later.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
You know, we see everything that's taking place on the show,
and I still want to do the research on this.
As bad as it is and was, we still think
we are the next top model. We are I know
I can be on that show and make a difference.
Bridget Come on, that's me.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
That was so many of the models.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
I think yes in the later seasons because ultimately we
all think we're the exception, right like we all think
that no, I'm going to be the one that can
beat the odds. And I will say there are While
there are very few top models, right, there are very
few that got to that status. A lot of the
contestants did model in some capacity for a few years.
(15:00):
They were able to make money of it.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Out of it.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
There are a handful that had really good acting careers,
right Like modeling wasn't the thing that popped off for them.
But there are movies, they are on television. There are
some models whose names we still know today. There are
some models who went into other lanes of reality TV.
So there are people who went into it, and I
don't know if all of their intentions were to go
on and be a top model, orf some just wanted
(15:22):
to further their entertainment careers. There are people who were
able to take the opportunity and make the most out
of it. But also, not everyone on that show got
it the same edit, right, Like not that everyone was.
If you go on that show and you're seen as
a winner who's a likable person, it may be easier
to roll that into something else.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Maybe if you go on and.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
You're a villain, right and you don't mind being the villain,
and you don't mind going to go be the villain
on another reality show, that you can roll into something else.
But a lot of the models just found that they
were forgotten about that what they actually wanted to do
was to become a model, and they thought at least
this was going to get me in the.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Door, and for some of them did the opposite. It
got a lot of doors shut in their face.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
You have something on this show that really triggers me,
and I'm not the only one in the creative world
that goes through this, but it's one of those that
triggers me to the point where I will look at
somebody in the eyes and say, if you say what
you are saying, then you better get in this hole
and dig with me. It's when someone says I'm rooting
for you. Oh my god, that is a trigger in
my creative zone.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
We were rooting for you.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Seeing into that, we get into that this is a
this is a it's a meme and this's WoT right,
So pretty much everyone to see that. This is a
moment in cycle for where Tyra Banks Like loses it.
And Tyra's a lot of things on that show, but
she is rarely angry, you know, She's rarely angry and
yelling at the contestants.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
That wasn't her role.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
She's rarely mean to them. But in this moment, Tyra
loses her cool. There was a contestant named Tiffany Richardson,
and Tiffany had been brought back from season three. This
is something we get into on an episode, an upcome episode.
Tiffany had been brought back from season three when she
got into a bar fight, right like, she got to
(17:08):
a bar fight with someone and she was sent away
to go get anger management, and they brought it back
for cycle four. And when Tiffany comes back to the competition,
she is not doing well right, Like she just feels
like a fish out of water. She's sort of falling
behind in the competition, and Tiffany ultimately gets eliminated. And
(17:30):
in the moment of elimination, Tiffany goes to say goodbye
to the other contestants, She's given them hugs.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
She's kind of laughing, and that just pisses Tyraf. What
I think.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
You know, this is my opinion, but this is from
the research and like talking to people. I actually think
I think Tyra was telling the truth when she says
she was rooting for Tiffany. I think Tyra that was
Tyra's person to win, right. One of the things we
kind of discovered is that there were I think, I
don't want to say favorites, but I think there were
people who they wanted to who had a good story, right,
(18:01):
and I think that was Tyra's person. And I think
seeing her sort of laugh it off or give up
in Tyro's eyes, that just sent her over the top.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
But we were able to talk to some crew members
who were there.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
We were able to talk to other models from that season,
and I will say one of the things we discovered
is that scene is not what it appears.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
There's a lot that was going on behind the scenes.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
There's a lot that Tyris said that was really mean
and nasty to Tiffany that got cut from what we
actually saw, but there was There's so many layers to that,
and we explore that in an upcoming episode, and we
get into Tiffany and Tiffany's original appearance on season three
and how she got sent home and how she got
sent to Anger Management and how that all came about,
(18:46):
which was through the psychiatric evaluations. We get into that
in the episode that came out today. So, yeah, that story.
I thought that that was just like, it's an iconic moment.
We should start with it. Everybody knows that, but there
are layers to it.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
I'm telling you, you've got to come back to this
show when I have more than just twenty minutes with you, because, man,
you and I can chew the same thing and be
on the same street speaking about things that just affect
our souls in the world of creativity.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Absolutely, I would love to come back.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Oh my god, Bridget I'm so proud of you for
bringing this out. I really am.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Thanks so much, Erro, I hope everyone listens.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
They can catch find this podcast cursor of America's next
Top Model on Apple Podcasts, wherever you listen to podcasts,
and that's when people prefer Spotify. Wherever you get your podcasts,
we're there. So thank you so much for having me,
Thanks for talking about this.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Will you be brilliant today? Okay, you too. Thank you
When creating aerow dot net, it was my goal to
tap into your life and style, not say this is
the way that it is followed by my rules. I mean,
I know your life is filled with sports, spiritual journeys,
as well as your love for spine tingling mysteries from
amazing new authors. Ero dot net a r r oe
(00:20):
dot net. Everything has its own channel, it's for you
to explore. Hey, welcome back to the conversation. Let's do
some pod crashing. Episode number four twenty seven is with
Bridget Armstrong from the podcast Curse of America's Next Stop Model.
Good morning, Bridget, how are you doing today?
Speaker 3 (00:40):
I'm good? How about you?
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Er fantastic and very excited to share a conversation with
you because this podcast really opened up my eyes and
it also scared the crap out of me because I
didn't know any of this was taking place. I mean,
I'm one of those people, you know, where everybody thinks
everybody lives happily ever after, and oh my god, this
is so beautiful. We're opening up the door for other
creative peace people and then we get to be taken
(01:01):
behind the scenes like you've shown, and it like, oh,
that's right. This stuff does happen.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
So one thing about this podcast, and one thing we
discovered is that, you know, we als would have thought
that I started watching this in high school, so I thought, like,
this is a glimpse into the modeling.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
World, yep.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
And what we find out is that this is a
reality show, right, which is something that I think clicks
for us these days because.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Reality TV has been around for so long.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
But back when America's Next Top Model premiere, it had
been on for like two or three years. So we thought,
you know, a lot of what we were seeing was real,
and it just turns out that's not the case. And
what they did to achieve having a great TV show
wasn't always great for the models, for the contestant who
were on that show.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Well, you brought up something very interesting, you said, reality show.
And I can relate with that because one of my
podcasts is based on life at a grocery store and
there are many times as the producer and as one
of the talent on the show that I will sit
there and I should I prefabricate this, and I go, no,
this has got to be real, because retail people will
call me out in a heartbeat. So I mean, I
(02:07):
just sit there and I wonder did anybody ever call
this show out saying you wrote that into the script
that didn't really happen.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Well, what's interesting is there were lots of models who
today are saying, you know, this didn't really happen or
this is not how.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
This went down.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
But a lot of the models signed NBA's so they
couldn't talk about those things for years later.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
They couldn't talk about it.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Some of them are able to talk about it now,
right because the show was until twenty eighteen, so a
lot of them couldn't speak out.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
But behind the scenes, when these models would leave.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
The show and go to like actual modeling agencies, right
like they've been on TV, everybody seeing them work with
Tyra Banks. They have this portfolio, so neil like their
career is supposed to start.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
So when they would go to.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Actual agencies, the agencies would laugh in their faces but
wouldn't know what to do with them because the people
that the agencies knew what they were watching wasn't realistic.
This isn't how modeling is in the real world, and
so they didn't take the contestants seriously. So imagine You've
gone through all of this for nine to ten however
many weeks, you know, ever many weeks you were actually
on the show. You've been humiliated, you haven't slept, You've
(03:12):
had to do all these ridiculous challenges. You're being hung
off the side of a building and told to smise,
and then you find out that you did all of
that for nothing. If your dream ultimately is to become
a supermodel, a top model, which is what the show promised, see.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
And what that does? That redefines that word curse that
you're using, curse of America's Next Top Model, because the
curse basically is the fact that you stepped into something.
Is it that situation of you knew what it was
when you picked it up?
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Well, I don't think that's the argu mean for the models.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
For me, when I got into this, I mean, after
a while, I mean it's like, Okay, I know what
this show is about, but come on, it's national attention.
They're gonna love me, okay, you know, because what's not
to love about me? Oh, let's do it. And then
all of a sudden you're getting your butt beat.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Absolutely, I think that's a big part of it. Also,
you get to look at. This show was on for
twenty four seasons, twenty four cycles as they call it,
and I think the contestants on the first seasons didn't
know quite what they were getting into. I think they
are some of the people who can actually have like
this cover up. I did not know what this was
(04:18):
going to be. I actually thought it was a model
in competition. And then, of course there are others who
got on the show and realized, Okay, maybe I might
not become a top model, but I might get some fame, right,
Like I might be able to further my career in entertainment.
I actually talked to a contestant who was on the
last seasons.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
I know a lot of people didn't necessarily see.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
It for the last seasons, but the last seasons they
did three co ed seasons, so they had guy and
girls girl models.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
And I spoke to a guy who was on that
first season, that first season.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Of co ed, and he said he knew that it
wasn't going to be making him gg I D Like,
he knew he wasn't going to be a top model.
He was an entertainer, he's a singer, he was an actor,
and he thought being on this show, like I can,
I can, I can model, I'm tall, I'm really attractive,
but I think being on the show will help further
my career. But that is something separate from how you
(05:11):
think you'll be treated.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Right. A person can go on and say, Okay, I'm
very clear out about this.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
I know I'm not going to necessarily become you know,
on the covers of Vogue. But they don't necessarily know
how they're going to be manipulated behind the scenes.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Right.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
A lot of models went into this thinking I'll get
a fair shake. If I go and do well, I'll
get far. But a lot of times the winners were
being manipulated by producers based on who had the best story,
based on who would be interesting for the cameras. And
so I think that's something that you don't really know
until you're on the show, that like, wow, I'm not
(05:47):
necessarily going to be treated the way I wanted to
be treated or how I thought this was going to go.
Even if you went into a knowing okay, I may
not become a model from this.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
See this. This is the power of a creator of mind,
where we sit there and we think we can bind
the story to make it believable in things. And it's
like it's sitting right there in front of each and
every one of us, because we have to go to
those board meetings and everybody goes, Okay, you know, we
kind of slipped in the ratings. What can we do
to create some drama. We've got to have something here
that's gonna you know, let's put this person up against
(06:17):
this person. I mean, it's so easy to do because
the viewer wants to see it. We watch daytime soap
operas every day.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Absolutely, and that's something I spuck with the creative producer
who was on like the latter seasons, right, and one
of the things he told me is they would a
creative producer in this sense is the person who comes
up with all those ridiculous runway challenges. They come up
with all of the over the top photo shoots' that's
their job to design these things. You have to think,
(06:46):
on a season of Top Model, you have anywhere from
like twelve to fifteen of those. And so he said
when he came along by season I think fifteen, they've
done everything. He would come up with something that he's like, no,
this is going to get them. He presented to Tyra
Banks and her team and they'd be like, you know,
we did that sorry, episode three, season.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Six, And so he had to come up with something.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
That had to top that, And so I asked him
about that. I was like, you know, like, weren't you
encourage to like make it even more ridiculous?
Speaker 3 (07:14):
He was like absolutely.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
One of the he told me about some of the
photo shoots of whence he came up with one of them.
They were at the Macaw Tower. That's a that's a
tower in Macau, China. It looks exactly like the CN
Tower in Toronto. That's that tower with a little needle
on it, of course, and then the models had to
go to the very very top and go out on
the ledge and do a photo shoot. Yes, mind you,
(07:40):
it was raining, it was windy. He was like, it
may have been even hailing. And I talked to one
of the models, the model who won that season. I
talked to one of the models.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
He said her biggest fear was heights, and she confirmed it.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Was hailing, and they had to go out there and
try to look fierce while they are scared to death.
Of course they were in a harness, right, but like that,
that's not what your mind thinks about. When you're like
on the side of a seven hundred foot building, you're thinking,
what if this tigness malfunctions?
Speaker 3 (08:06):
What if I slip off of this? But you can't
let those thoughts.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
They couldn't let those thoughts sort of get in the
way because they were supposed to take a great picture,
or so they were told. Because the whole point in
them doing that is so we could see the models,
you know, be really terrified, be really afraid, and see
what that drama sort of produces.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
So when you're at like, you know, Cycle eighteen, that's
when that happened.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
When you're on Cycle eighteen and you're trying to top
seventeen seasons before and which they've done all of the
top stuff, you know, you end up hanging models off
the side of the seven hundred foot building because, like
you said, the ratings are slipping, you want people to
still watch, and these are the things they're tuning in for.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
See. I can relate with this, bridget And the reason
why is because, as that radio host, I was the
dude that sat there in my Doboken martial arts, my
second degree black belt and let a US military man
shoot a paintball gun at me just to see if
it hurts. And then I was the dude that would
pour saw into an open wound on my hand because
that's what people talk about. You want them to turn
it into a water cooler conversation.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Absolutely, And actually I started out in radio too, and
you get it, I get it. My third job, I
was working at a public radio fish in Baltimore, and
there was a pastor who was doing this campaign to
get people to vote, and so he went on the
top of the roof of a building and camped out there.
(09:27):
He was on a camp there until a certain percentage
of people from his community voted.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
And so I was like, well, I'll just go up
there with him. So there I am climbing up this.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Ladder on the side of a building because I thought
it would be a good story.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
So I absolutely relate to it too.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Please do not move. We are just getting started with
Bridget Armstrong, the name of the podcast Curse of America's
Next Top Model. We are back with Bridget Armstrong. Tell
me you did not cry a tear during this story,
because you can't help but sit there and have so
much emotion for somebody who physically won the show but
(10:04):
had nothing, absolutely nothing.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Yo Wanna Sorry was one of the most heartbreaking, and
partially because I remember yo Wanna, Remember ya Wanna vividly.
Yo Wanna was the one who took that iconic helmet
photo and it's just her face and she's looking straight
onto the camera. A lot of viewers will remember yo Wanna.
Ya Wanna left the show, and this is something I
didn't realize. In the first seasons of America's Next Top Model,
(10:28):
there was no monetary prize, so the winner was winning
a contract, but that contract wasn't necessarily tied to a
certain amount of money. That winner was getting agency representation,
but again it wasn't a connected to money, so Yoana
had to use her money. She actually used the per diems,
which was a really small amount of money they got
every day. She just saved hers every day. She used
(10:49):
her money to move to New York, and when she
got to New York, she one found out that she
couldn't use her portfolio from Top Model.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Because it wasn't realistic enough.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
So she had to go take all these new pictures
with these fancy photographers, and she was being charged for that.
She was being sent in wardrobe because she had to
do all these appearances because she's the winner of America's
Next Top Model and the show was huge then, but
she was being charged for that. Yo Wanna ended up
sleeping on the couch of a makeup art because she
could not afford to pay for anywhere to live in
(11:20):
New York City. Yo Wanna was broke the first years
of Top Model. And one thing she told me, she
modeled for a bit, but she also got into hosting
and that is kind of how she made money and
built a career.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
But from Top Model, yes she was in debt.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
She still had to do promo for Top Model, and
she could never say, oh, by the way, this isn't
as great as it looks, I'm paying for all this
stuff and I'm broke because she signed in NBA, she
couldn't talk trash about the show. And so when you
think about these iconic winners, the people who really put
A ANDTM on the map, and you think, wow, even
they had a tough time after the show, while even
they were broke, you know, it really starts to put
(11:57):
stuff into perspective.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
You know, I got to chase and then more and
more I dug into this podcast. The more and more.
I mean, it has been well written, so we can
say it that. You know, Tyra Banks, you know, is
one of the most feared villains on reality TV. And
I got to tell you and you might be able
to relate with this. Being a radio person, I think
she's perfect for radio station programming, because that's exactly what
we need in leadership when it comes to radio. Somebody
(12:19):
who's going to step in there and really bring the game.
And if you get hurt, you knew.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
What it was.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Absolutely I went into this podcast thinking like, Okay, this
is we're going to talk about the real side, what
really happened behind the scenes. But also, you know, I
was a fan of the show, so we're going to
like also appreciate that and appreciate Tyra. The more interviews
I did, the more research I did, I came to
the conclusion that I think Tyra Banks is an evil genius.
(12:49):
I really do, because this is a reason why the
show had so many viewers, why it was on for
so long. And I think a lot of people think
Tyra was just sort of a host or just a
pretty face.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
We need a model to host this model show.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
This was Tyra Banks's idea Tyra Banks came up with
the concept for America's Next Time Model and she yes.
She brought it to her executive producer kN Mock. They
shopped it around to networks. They ended up getting picked up,
But this was Tyra's entire idea, and I think initially
Tyra shopped the idea around the networks and they thought
it was going to be a bad idea. She had
(13:23):
an agent who actually told her nobody wants to see models,
They're unsympathetic. But Tyra was like, no, I have it
hit like this is not going to be good, and
she was right.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
And if you look at so.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Much of the creative that went into that show, Tyra
Banks had a say in it. And I think she
really understands program. I means she really understands television. I
found out that if Tyra Banks didn't pursue modeling, she
was going to school to pursue maths calm.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
She wanted to be like n TV, which.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
I thought was really interesting and she I think she
really understands television and what viewers want to see and
what makes interesting television. But like you're saying, sometimes that
is not what's always best for the contestants. For the
people that are there. You have to make card decisions,
You have to make difficult decisions, and sometimes those decisions
(14:13):
don't age well.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
So we're talking about the curse of America's Next Top Model.
Twenty years later.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
You know, we see everything that's taking place on the show,
and I still want to do the research on this.
As bad as it is and was, we still think
we are the next top model. We are I know
I can be on that show and make a difference.
Bridget Come on, that's me.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
That was so many of the models.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
I think yes in the later seasons because ultimately we
all think we're the exception, right like we all think
that no, I'm going to be the one that can
beat the odds. And I will say there are While
there are very few top models, right, there are very
few that got to that status. A lot of the
contestants did model in some capacity for a few years.
(15:00):
They were able to make money of it.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Out of it.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
There are a handful that had really good acting careers,
right Like modeling wasn't the thing that popped off for them.
But there are movies, they are on television. There are
some models whose names we still know today. There are
some models who went into other lanes of reality TV.
So there are people who went into it, and I
don't know if all of their intentions were to go
on and be a top model, orf some just wanted
(15:22):
to further their entertainment careers. There are people who were
able to take the opportunity and make the most out
of it. But also, not everyone on that show got
it the same edit, right, Like not that everyone was.
If you go on that show and you're seen as
a winner who's a likable person, it may be easier
to roll that into something else.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Maybe if you go on and.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
You're a villain, right and you don't mind being the villain,
and you don't mind going to go be the villain
on another reality show, that you can roll into something else.
But a lot of the models just found that they
were forgotten about that what they actually wanted to do
was to become a model, and they thought at least
this was going to get me in the.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Door, and for some of them did the opposite. It
got a lot of doors shut in their face.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
You have something on this show that really triggers me,
and I'm not the only one in the creative world
that goes through this, but it's one of those that
triggers me to the point where I will look at
somebody in the eyes and say, if you say what
you are saying, then you better get in this hole
and dig with me. It's when someone says I'm rooting
for you. Oh my god, that is a trigger in
my creative zone.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
We were rooting for you.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Seeing into that, we get into that this is a
this is a it's a meme and this's WoT right,
So pretty much everyone to see that. This is a
moment in cycle for where Tyra Banks Like loses it.
And Tyra's a lot of things on that show, but
she is rarely angry, you know, She's rarely angry and
yelling at the contestants.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
That wasn't her role.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
She's rarely mean to them. But in this moment, Tyra
loses her cool. There was a contestant named Tiffany Richardson,
and Tiffany had been brought back from season three. This
is something we get into on an episode, an upcome episode.
Tiffany had been brought back from season three when she
got into a bar fight, right like, she got to
(17:08):
a bar fight with someone and she was sent away
to go get anger management, and they brought it back
for cycle four. And when Tiffany comes back to the competition,
she is not doing well right, Like she just feels
like a fish out of water. She's sort of falling
behind in the competition, and Tiffany ultimately gets eliminated. And
(17:30):
in the moment of elimination, Tiffany goes to say goodbye
to the other contestants, She's given them hugs.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
She's kind of laughing, and that just pisses Tyraf. What
I think.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
You know, this is my opinion, but this is from
the research and like talking to people. I actually think
I think Tyra was telling the truth when she says
she was rooting for Tiffany. I think Tyra that was
Tyra's person to win, right. One of the things we
kind of discovered is that there were I think, I
don't want to say favorites, but I think there were
people who they wanted to who had a good story, right,
(18:01):
and I think that was Tyra's person. And I think
seeing her sort of laugh it off or give up
in Tyro's eyes, that just sent her over the top.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
But we were able to talk to some crew members
who were there.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
We were able to talk to other models from that season,
and I will say one of the things we discovered
is that scene is not what it appears.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
There's a lot that was going on behind the scenes.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
There's a lot that Tyris said that was really mean
and nasty to Tiffany that got cut from what we
actually saw, but there was There's so many layers to that,
and we explore that in an upcoming episode, and we
get into Tiffany and Tiffany's original appearance on season three
and how she got sent home and how she got
sent to Anger Management and how that all came about,
(18:46):
which was through the psychiatric evaluations. We get into that
in the episode that came out today. So, yeah, that story.
I thought that that was just like, it's an iconic moment.
We should start with it. Everybody knows that, but there
are layers to it.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
I'm telling you, you've got to come back to this
show when I have more than just twenty minutes with you, because, man,
you and I can chew the same thing and be
on the same street speaking about things that just affect
our souls in the world of creativity.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Absolutely, I would love to come back.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Oh my god, Bridget I'm so proud of you for
bringing this out. I really am.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Thanks so much, Erro, I hope everyone listens.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
They can catch find this podcast cursor of America's next
Top Model on Apple Podcasts, wherever you listen to podcasts,
and that's when people prefer Spotify. Wherever you get your podcasts,
we're there. So thank you so much for having me,
Thanks for talking about this.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Will you be brilliant today? Okay, you too. Thank you
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