September 19, 2025 • 15 mins
Acclaimed author and memoirist Sue William Silverman? In Selected Misdemeanors: Essays at the Mercy of the Reader, she examines the tiniest moments in life—and their ripple effects. A master of metaphor and a longtime teacher of creative nonfiction, Silverman uses each essay in Selected Misdemeanors to reveal a kind of emotional misdemeanor—a misstep, a moment of contradiction, a wound we give ourselves while yearning for something more.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, congratulations on this brand new book, because I really
think that you you put us in a place of
where we can explore beyond our reasonable touch. And what
I mean by that is that we tend to surround
ourselves with stories that are all about what we only love.
But this one right here goes into several different layers
of basically people.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Yes, that's right. You know, there's obviously different ways to
tell a story. And I have written like long form
memoir there, you know, two hundred and fifty pages or so,
But in Selective Misdemeanors, I was really looking for kind
of the smaller moments in life and sort of what
(00:41):
happens between big things, you know, like we get married
or we get divorce, we have kids, we get sick,
but so much of time of our lives is really
sort of the in between times and sort of these
encounters we have with other people in kind of these
flash moments, And that I think is really one thing
(01:02):
that I was trying to create in Selective Misdemeanors, you know.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
One of the things. I mean, I'm listening to how
you best described it there, and it takes me back
to every reason why I'm a daily writer, and I've
been doing it since July of nineteen ninety four. It's
because I want to collect those little moments that, yes,
life will have you forget exactly.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
And it's sort of tragic when you think about it,
because you know, most of our lives are these little
moments and that sort of happened around these big life events,
and it's sort of sad when you think that they
could all just be lost. And so Selectivist Demeanors is
(01:44):
a collection of flash essays. You know, they're all not
they're all pretty short. They're a couple of longer ones,
but they're pretty much all very short. And that form,
that short form, the flash essay, brief essay, whatever you
want to call it, really lends itself to those smaller moments.
So it's sort of I think in this book, I
(02:04):
was able to sort of find the perfect form for
the perfect content that I wanted to convey.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
In it using that flash format. Though, I mean, that
is so in touch with what's going on today, because
I mean when it comes to music, when I'm spending
music at a celebration or at a school, they want
out of the song. Right now, everybody wants to get
out of something right now, so they want that flash
of something so they can say, well, I've learned something
here exactly.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I know, I don't know if it's social media, probably
a lot of it is. Is that sort of the
idea of a media gratification. I want to know it
now and I want to hear it now, and people
don't have the patients I think for a lot of
longer pieces. And it's so interesting because when I was
(02:50):
like in high school in college, I loved like if
I could read a book that was like five hundred pages,
I was in my happy place. It's like I could
really set and you know, I was in it for like,
you know, a few weeks or so, and it was
very comforting to sort of keep returning to that world.
But that is so different now and now a lot
(03:11):
of things are just flash.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Did you gather this this energy to do this by
by basically, you know, journaling? Do you keep a journal
or anything like that, because I mean it's just for
somone to respect moments or or basically these these little
you know, short essays or flashes. I mean it's it
didn't just happen, something happened in your life to create that.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah, I mean ironically, and I'm almost embarrassed to admit
it because I encourage I teach, and I encourage my
students to keep a journal, but I have never kept one. Well,
I really haven't. And but what it is is that
if I just sat around thinking like, oh what can
I write about? I would be blank. And the only
(03:55):
way that I discovered these moments is through writing. It's
kind of remember, I'm very good at remembering, like sensory
details images from different parts of my life. I'm sort
of like a sponge where that is in play, and
so I just have a lot of sensory imagery. And
(04:15):
if I can focus on a century image from a
certain time in my life, that's how I'm able to remember, recollect,
and then craft these flash pieces. So it's really like
I don't try to necessarily remember them first and foremost
through just thinking, but it's more through feeling, and that's
(04:36):
how I get in touch with those moments.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Do you believe in stream thinking? In other words, you
write exactly what's going on in your present place of
right now.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
For a first draft. Yes, I can do that, But
then I mean, creative nonfiction really is taking your life
and turning it into art. And that's true whether you're
writing a flash piece or full length memoir. So my
first drafts, they're really messy, and it's sort of whatever
kind of pours out, because I know I'll have, like
you know, I'll revise it like five thousand million times
(05:07):
or something. I mean that's a small exaggeration, but at
least maybe twenty times. So but yes, the first drafts
are messy and it's kind of just what kind of
pours out. And then with each draft I refine it
and refine it because each of these flash essays are
seventy one in the book. Each one is about one
(05:27):
specific moment and it's crafted around a specific theme, and
so I have to do a lot of cleaning up
with each subsequent draft.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
If it's messy is good. And the reason why I
say that is because look at the song Yesterday from
Paul McCartney and the Beatles. I mean, they started out
as scrambled eggs, and so therefore, you know, it was
messy that became something great, Yes, And.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
I think that's the way art should be. I mean,
how can we know when we're starting off to write
something or you know, write a song or a book,
or an essay. We can't. If I knew ahead of
time exactly what this was going to be, it's almost boring.
I mean, like, why would I even bother writing if
I know how it's going to end. It's the creative
(06:14):
process that's interesting. So I start off at one place,
and I really it's sort of like following a whisper.
I follow and see where the words leave me, and
that act of discovery is what's interesting to me. And
so yes, so the first draft is kind of miss
messy and everything, but then each subsequent draft it's kind
(06:37):
of like also appeeling like an and you know, layers
and layers so till you get down to the core
of what you really want to say. I love that
story about Paul McCartney and that is such a gorgeous saw.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Please do not move. There's more with Sue william Silverman
coming up next, the name of a book selected mister
Meanors Essays at the Mercy of the Readers. We're back
with Sue Williams silvermane. How long do you let your
writing fermat before you go in there and you do
yourself editing?
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Well, it depends to a large extent. I mean, if
I that's I'm working on one particular essay in this book,
and I'll write a first draft and I'll look at
it at the end of the day. Yeah that's not
very good. But if I can tell if I have
a lot of energy, if I'm just completely bored, I'll think,
you know, maybe not maybe another time. But if I
(07:31):
have like feel it's almost like your pulse. Racist If
I feel that, then I know I'm onto something. So
then it's a matter of staying with it. And I
might stay with it, you know, for a week, I'll
keep revising it. But then what I do do is
I put it away for maybe a month or so,
and then I'll look at it because I can see
it then with fresh eyes, and I'll see, oh, yeah, okay,
(07:52):
this paragraph needs to move, or this paragraph needs to
come out, or this sentence is really clunky, and or
I'm missing an opportunity here to turn this you know,
century image into a metaphor. So, you know, it's a
process and some and you know, all essays are not
created equal. I mean, some do come faster than others.
(08:14):
You know, some I'm just really I can really struggle with.
But as I say, if I have that energy. I'm
going to keep coming back to it.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yeah. I can't go back and read my published books.
And the reason why is because this day here in
twenty twenty five would say, I, I don't think so
I would have rewritten it and done it a different way.
And so then then you got that judgment call against yourself.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Oh gosh, I know, you know. So I give a
lot of readings and everything at colleges, universities, places like that.
And it's so funny because if I read something that's
a little bit kind of older, I'll like sort of change.
First of all, I'm reading it, I mean because like,
oh god, how could I have chosen that word?
Speaker 1 (08:53):
No?
Speaker 2 (08:53):
No, no, no, it needs to be a different word.
So even when I nothing is ever done, you know.
But this thing is is that you have to remember
that that book that you wrote at that moment in time,
that's where you were then. So you have to respect that.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Wow. See and that's what I love about writing. Are
you a writing teacher? What kind of a class do
you teach?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Yes, so I teach It's a low residency MFA and
writing program at Vermont College, a fine art So it's
a great way to teach. It's low residency, which means
twice a year we get together for about nine days
of intensive workshops, lectures and readings, and then the rest
(09:35):
of the semester I work with like about five students
the rest of the semester. Every month, my students will
send me a packet of their work nice and then
I'll read it and respond to and I'll send it back.
So it's really a lovely way to operate. You get
you get the immediacy of their of their packets every month,
(09:59):
but then you also get the intensity of meeting up
on a college on the college campus twice a year,
and so it's really nice. It's a great way to teach,
and it's a great way I think first people to
learn an art form.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
So do you think we are becoming a stronger storytelling
generation or do you think that we've gone the other
way and thought, Wow, I just I got a digital device,
I'll just use my voice, I don't need words.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Well, that's a tough question because I worry. Let me
say that, I worry that we're going away from storytelling.
But the thing of it is is that all of
us in the arts are working hard for that, not
to happen, right, and because what do we have other
(10:49):
than our stories? I mean, when you think about it,
what lasts in a culture, you know, you think of
Greek culture, the stories last. I mean, we still have
plays from you know, ancient Greeks and ancient Rome. And
that's what lasts are. These stories are narratives, and it's
so important because that's where we make our human connections.
(11:11):
You know, I write creative nonfiction, which maybe even lends
itself more to that. But you know, when I publish
one of my books, I mean, I get hundreds of
emails from readers either sort of thanking me for telling
their story too, which means that I'm so lucky that
I have a voice and that I can you know,
use it to connect with other people or you know,
(11:34):
maybe they don't have the same experience, but they have
something similar, you know, because we write about themes, like
some of the themes I write about our loss, alienation,
you know, search for love, and so even if you
haven't had my same experience, you can still relate to
that underlying theme, and so people relate to you know,
(11:55):
if they actually you know, people will read the books,
you know, they'll learn something not just about me, even
though it's created on fiction, but it's to learn about yourself.
You know, Oh, I can relate to that, and now
oh Sue wrote about that, and now I can understand
it better myself better. So I mean, it's all about
(12:15):
human connections. And I feel really scared when I think
if we've lost, you know, that human narrative, that people
aren't interested. And I'm not gonna I'm going to say
that it's going to hang in there. I disbelieve in
it so stry like that. That's where I'm going. I'm
just going to believe in it and think that we
(12:36):
will never completely lose that.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Well, the format that you use with this flash fiction
is the fact. I find that so inspiring because you know,
most people won't do that. I mean it's like, you
know it's too much to write. Go study flash fiction
and tell me it's too much to write. It is
an opportunity to write something right now and then put
it away.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I mean theoretically you could. I mean
some of the slash essays in my book, I like
a paragraph. I mean it's like immediate gratification. You know
what's better than that? And so you know others are longer,
they take more time. But really, just if you see
just you know, kind of moments of you know, sort
(13:19):
of small moments of beauty or a miniature moment of
a betrayal or snippet of loss, I mean something like that,
just write it down and just the writing process makes
you as just a person more fully realized. I mean,
you're telling your story and you don't have to. You know,
(13:40):
I'm a professional writer and I do publish my work,
but you don't have to. I mean, you can just
write for the sake of writing. You can keep a
journal and write down these important moments in your life,
whether they took ten seconds a day, a week, whatever
it is, just write it down. Really will feel.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Better about your Oh my god, you are speaking from
my heart. We are on the same exact street. Where
can people go out and find out more about you? Sue?
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Yes, So my website is Suewilliamsilverman dot com. It's s
U E W I L L I A M s
I L V E R M A and dot com.
So that's my website. And my books are available on Amazon, Bookshop,
dot or wherever books are sold pretty much. And my
(14:31):
new book is called selected misdemeanor. Yes, essay at the
mercy of the reader. So I hope you'll read it,
and my email address is on my website. If you do,
just drop me a line. I'd love to get in
touch with you.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Well, please come back to this show anytime in the future.
Just get in touch with Heather. Let's always find a
way that we can create together.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
I would love to do that. Thank you so much
for having me.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Will you be brilliant today? Okay, okay, you too.
Hey, congratulations on this brand new book, because I really
think that you you put us in a place of
where we can explore beyond our reasonable touch. And what
I mean by that is that we tend to surround
ourselves with stories that are all about what we only love.
But this one right here goes into several different layers
of basically people.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Yes, that's right. You know, there's obviously different ways to
tell a story. And I have written like long form
memoir there, you know, two hundred and fifty pages or so,
But in Selective Misdemeanors, I was really looking for kind
of the smaller moments in life and sort of what
(00:41):
happens between big things, you know, like we get married
or we get divorce, we have kids, we get sick,
but so much of time of our lives is really
sort of the in between times and sort of these
encounters we have with other people in kind of these
flash moments, And that I think is really one thing
(01:02):
that I was trying to create in Selective Misdemeanors, you know.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
One of the things. I mean, I'm listening to how
you best described it there, and it takes me back
to every reason why I'm a daily writer, and I've
been doing it since July of nineteen ninety four. It's
because I want to collect those little moments that, yes,
life will have you forget exactly.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
And it's sort of tragic when you think about it,
because you know, most of our lives are these little
moments and that sort of happened around these big life events,
and it's sort of sad when you think that they
could all just be lost. And so Selectivist Demeanors is
(01:44):
a collection of flash essays. You know, they're all not
they're all pretty short. They're a couple of longer ones,
but they're pretty much all very short. And that form,
that short form, the flash essay, brief essay, whatever you
want to call it, really lends itself to those smaller moments.
So it's sort of I think in this book, I
(02:04):
was able to sort of find the perfect form for
the perfect content that I wanted to convey.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
In it using that flash format. Though, I mean, that
is so in touch with what's going on today, because
I mean when it comes to music, when I'm spending
music at a celebration or at a school, they want
out of the song. Right now, everybody wants to get
out of something right now, so they want that flash
of something so they can say, well, I've learned something
here exactly.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I know, I don't know if it's social media, probably
a lot of it is. Is that sort of the
idea of a media gratification. I want to know it
now and I want to hear it now, and people
don't have the patients I think for a lot of
longer pieces. And it's so interesting because when I was
(02:50):
like in high school in college, I loved like if
I could read a book that was like five hundred pages,
I was in my happy place. It's like I could
really set and you know, I was in it for like,
you know, a few weeks or so, and it was
very comforting to sort of keep returning to that world.
But that is so different now and now a lot
(03:11):
of things are just flash.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Did you gather this this energy to do this by
by basically, you know, journaling? Do you keep a journal
or anything like that, because I mean it's just for
somone to respect moments or or basically these these little
you know, short essays or flashes. I mean it's it
didn't just happen, something happened in your life to create that.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah, I mean ironically, and I'm almost embarrassed to admit
it because I encourage I teach, and I encourage my
students to keep a journal, but I have never kept one. Well,
I really haven't. And but what it is is that
if I just sat around thinking like, oh what can
I write about? I would be blank. And the only
(03:55):
way that I discovered these moments is through writing. It's
kind of remember, I'm very good at remembering, like sensory
details images from different parts of my life. I'm sort
of like a sponge where that is in play, and
so I just have a lot of sensory imagery. And
(04:15):
if I can focus on a century image from a
certain time in my life, that's how I'm able to remember, recollect,
and then craft these flash pieces. So it's really like
I don't try to necessarily remember them first and foremost
through just thinking, but it's more through feeling, and that's
(04:36):
how I get in touch with those moments.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Do you believe in stream thinking? In other words, you
write exactly what's going on in your present place of
right now.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
For a first draft. Yes, I can do that, But
then I mean, creative nonfiction really is taking your life
and turning it into art. And that's true whether you're
writing a flash piece or full length memoir. So my
first drafts, they're really messy, and it's sort of whatever
kind of pours out, because I know I'll have, like
you know, I'll revise it like five thousand million times
(05:07):
or something. I mean that's a small exaggeration, but at
least maybe twenty times. So but yes, the first drafts
are messy and it's kind of just what kind of
pours out. And then with each draft I refine it
and refine it because each of these flash essays are
seventy one in the book. Each one is about one
(05:27):
specific moment and it's crafted around a specific theme, and
so I have to do a lot of cleaning up
with each subsequent draft.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
If it's messy is good. And the reason why I
say that is because look at the song Yesterday from
Paul McCartney and the Beatles. I mean, they started out
as scrambled eggs, and so therefore, you know, it was
messy that became something great, Yes, And.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
I think that's the way art should be. I mean,
how can we know when we're starting off to write
something or you know, write a song or a book,
or an essay. We can't. If I knew ahead of
time exactly what this was going to be, it's almost boring.
I mean, like, why would I even bother writing if
I know how it's going to end. It's the creative
(06:14):
process that's interesting. So I start off at one place,
and I really it's sort of like following a whisper.
I follow and see where the words leave me, and
that act of discovery is what's interesting to me. And
so yes, so the first draft is kind of miss
messy and everything, but then each subsequent draft it's kind
(06:37):
of like also appeeling like an and you know, layers
and layers so till you get down to the core
of what you really want to say. I love that
story about Paul McCartney and that is such a gorgeous saw.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Please do not move. There's more with Sue william Silverman
coming up next, the name of a book selected mister
Meanors Essays at the Mercy of the Readers. We're back
with Sue Williams silvermane. How long do you let your
writing fermat before you go in there and you do
yourself editing?
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Well, it depends to a large extent. I mean, if
I that's I'm working on one particular essay in this book,
and I'll write a first draft and I'll look at
it at the end of the day. Yeah that's not
very good. But if I can tell if I have
a lot of energy, if I'm just completely bored, I'll think,
you know, maybe not maybe another time. But if I
(07:31):
have like feel it's almost like your pulse. Racist If
I feel that, then I know I'm onto something. So
then it's a matter of staying with it. And I
might stay with it, you know, for a week, I'll
keep revising it. But then what I do do is
I put it away for maybe a month or so,
and then I'll look at it because I can see
it then with fresh eyes, and I'll see, oh, yeah, okay,
(07:52):
this paragraph needs to move, or this paragraph needs to
come out, or this sentence is really clunky, and or
I'm missing an opportunity here to turn this you know,
century image into a metaphor. So, you know, it's a
process and some and you know, all essays are not
created equal. I mean, some do come faster than others.
(08:14):
You know, some I'm just really I can really struggle with.
But as I say, if I have that energy. I'm
going to keep coming back to it.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yeah. I can't go back and read my published books.
And the reason why is because this day here in
twenty twenty five would say, I, I don't think so
I would have rewritten it and done it a different way.
And so then then you got that judgment call against yourself.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Oh gosh, I know, you know. So I give a
lot of readings and everything at colleges, universities, places like that.
And it's so funny because if I read something that's
a little bit kind of older, I'll like sort of change.
First of all, I'm reading it, I mean because like,
oh god, how could I have chosen that word?
Speaker 1 (08:53):
No?
Speaker 2 (08:53):
No, no, no, it needs to be a different word.
So even when I nothing is ever done, you know.
But this thing is is that you have to remember
that that book that you wrote at that moment in time,
that's where you were then. So you have to respect that.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Wow. See and that's what I love about writing. Are
you a writing teacher? What kind of a class do
you teach?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Yes, so I teach It's a low residency MFA and
writing program at Vermont College, a fine art So it's
a great way to teach. It's low residency, which means
twice a year we get together for about nine days
of intensive workshops, lectures and readings, and then the rest
(09:35):
of the semester I work with like about five students
the rest of the semester. Every month, my students will
send me a packet of their work nice and then
I'll read it and respond to and I'll send it back.
So it's really a lovely way to operate. You get
you get the immediacy of their of their packets every month,
(09:59):
but then you also get the intensity of meeting up
on a college on the college campus twice a year,
and so it's really nice. It's a great way to teach,
and it's a great way I think first people to
learn an art form.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
So do you think we are becoming a stronger storytelling
generation or do you think that we've gone the other
way and thought, Wow, I just I got a digital device,
I'll just use my voice, I don't need words.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Well, that's a tough question because I worry. Let me
say that, I worry that we're going away from storytelling.
But the thing of it is is that all of
us in the arts are working hard for that, not
to happen, right, and because what do we have other
(10:49):
than our stories? I mean, when you think about it,
what lasts in a culture, you know, you think of
Greek culture, the stories last. I mean, we still have
plays from you know, ancient Greeks and ancient Rome. And
that's what lasts are. These stories are narratives, and it's
so important because that's where we make our human connections.
(11:11):
You know, I write creative nonfiction, which maybe even lends
itself more to that. But you know, when I publish
one of my books, I mean, I get hundreds of
emails from readers either sort of thanking me for telling
their story too, which means that I'm so lucky that
I have a voice and that I can you know,
use it to connect with other people or you know,
(11:34):
maybe they don't have the same experience, but they have
something similar, you know, because we write about themes, like
some of the themes I write about our loss, alienation,
you know, search for love, and so even if you
haven't had my same experience, you can still relate to
that underlying theme, and so people relate to you know,
(11:55):
if they actually you know, people will read the books,
you know, they'll learn something not just about me, even
though it's created on fiction, but it's to learn about yourself.
You know, Oh, I can relate to that, and now
oh Sue wrote about that, and now I can understand
it better myself better. So I mean, it's all about
(12:15):
human connections. And I feel really scared when I think
if we've lost, you know, that human narrative, that people
aren't interested. And I'm not gonna I'm going to say
that it's going to hang in there. I disbelieve in
it so stry like that. That's where I'm going. I'm
just going to believe in it and think that we
(12:36):
will never completely lose that.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Well, the format that you use with this flash fiction
is the fact. I find that so inspiring because you know,
most people won't do that. I mean it's like, you
know it's too much to write. Go study flash fiction
and tell me it's too much to write. It is
an opportunity to write something right now and then put
it away.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I mean theoretically you could. I mean
some of the slash essays in my book, I like
a paragraph. I mean it's like immediate gratification. You know
what's better than that? And so you know others are longer,
they take more time. But really, just if you see
just you know, kind of moments of you know, sort
(13:19):
of small moments of beauty or a miniature moment of
a betrayal or snippet of loss, I mean something like that,
just write it down and just the writing process makes
you as just a person more fully realized. I mean,
you're telling your story and you don't have to. You know,
(13:40):
I'm a professional writer and I do publish my work,
but you don't have to. I mean, you can just
write for the sake of writing. You can keep a
journal and write down these important moments in your life,
whether they took ten seconds a day, a week, whatever
it is, just write it down. Really will feel.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Better about your Oh my god, you are speaking from
my heart. We are on the same exact street. Where
can people go out and find out more about you? Sue?
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Yes, So my website is Suewilliamsilverman dot com. It's s
U E W I L L I A M s
I L V E R M A and dot com.
So that's my website. And my books are available on Amazon, Bookshop,
dot or wherever books are sold pretty much. And my
(14:31):
new book is called selected misdemeanor. Yes, essay at the
mercy of the reader. So I hope you'll read it,
and my email address is on my website. If you do,
just drop me a line. I'd love to get in
touch with you.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Well, please come back to this show anytime in the future.
Just get in touch with Heather. Let's always find a
way that we can create together.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
I would love to do that. Thank you so much
for having me.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Will you be brilliant today? Okay, okay, you too.
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