November 20, 2025 • 17 mins
In CAN SCIENTISTS SUCCEED WHERE POLITICIANS FAIL? Nobel laureate Peter Agre, MD, recounts his journey from a physician-scientist specializing in malaria research to a leading voice for scientific collaboration and consensus across nations, regardless of ideological and political divisions. Using medical science as his global diplomatic pass, Dr. Agre has traveled to countries led by autocratic regimes hostile to the United States, including North Korea and Iran. During his visits, he forged close, collaborative relationships with local scientists, which led to meetings with ambassadors, presidents, and other rulers—including tribal leaders in Zambia and Cuba’s Fidel Castro.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Sure, we're on iHeartRadio, Spotify and every digital platform there is.
But why go they're searching for everything we've got when
you can just go to arrow dot net A R
R O E dot net.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Good morning, This is Peter Agy and Baltimo or is
this Aerocollins?
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Yes it is, doctor. How are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I'm doing about yourself.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Well, I'm very grateful that we're taking the time to
have a conversation here because you've got a subject here
that it's on the edge of everybody's tongue. But why
is it that nobody's jumping into it and making it
a part.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Of our hearing.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Okay, I think you're your book is coming in at
such a major important time because the thing about it is, though,
is that people it's on the edge of their tongue,
but they're not talking about it on an everyday basis.
But your book really inspires me start the conversation, dude,
And that's exactly what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Well. I think it is a call to action. I
think things are very ominous. Is the better ways to
pursue things? And I think the United States has a
great resource in its science and technical of people who
(01:13):
are skilled in past are now done around the world
were looking at as leaders and open doors.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yeah, but are you Are you in fear in any way,
shape or form with the cutbacks that they're doing at
the universities where it's getting tougher and tougher to get
a visa here in the States, because that, to me
is sending the brain children to a different location on
the planet.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
It is very difficult. It was always exceedingly competitive to
good grants from federal agencies, but when they arrived, they
were generous, and great things happen. But now it's we've
been in a state of free fall for the last
half year and their entire institutes that are on hold,
(01:58):
maybe four percent of the grass will get funded, but
the money doesn't arrive. I think universities are really very
worried that chief people will give up science. Right the
work will be interrupted and it's not like you can
just plug it back in and move along. Well difficult trial.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
That's one of the things that I'm taking note of
lately is that there is such a push right now
for STEM research and to get these kids into these
STEM programs that that it's like you, if we don't
start them young they're then they're going to be disassociated
when they get into like a college level of learning.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
That's true, it's not easy bachelornds who achieve and we
have I think a good interests in our youngest in
terms of computer activities and use digital electronic, other mathematical
(03:05):
and physical and biological sum Afraid, there's not the excitement
and the young people, but young people from abroad are
very interested in these subjects are coming to the United States.
It's World War two until recently.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah, until until yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
See that's that's the part that's got my attention until recently,
and and and dang it anyway, that's part of our
generation until recently.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yes, it's it's something that we've paused by national policy.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
So now, one of the things that I learned during
the lockdown, and I thought this was very inspiring, science
and the government were finally starting to work together as one.
It's almost like they were chumming up. But nowadays, when
you look at it, it's like, what happened to this breakdown?
It seems like everybody's going to their separate rooms now.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Yes, well, I think private scientists have worked with governmental
agencies for decades, but the endemic coincided with about face
and there was a public trust. I think there was
(04:28):
so much confused and with regard to how we could
protect ourselves and others and who should wear a mask
and who doesn't need to. And it's understandable. People will
get you. You're irritated when they're frightened, and they get
ambiguous answers. But we've learned from that, and certainly the
(04:51):
development of vaccines during the COVID these are new record times,
very effective vaccine.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Please do not move. There's more with doctor Peter coming
up next. Hey, we're talking science today. Let's get back
into that talk with doctor Peter. One of the things
that I'm taking note of, especially lately in the past
let's say one to two years, is the fact that
the US is doing more than just sending ambassadors out
to make a nice nice with other nations. They're actually
(05:21):
sending out science as well to help broker peace. Because
I mean, I mean, because I keep hearing about the
minerals in the earth, the minerals in the earth, Well,
the only people that know about those minerals to me
are the scientists. What are they up to? And are
we on the right path.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Well, I think we've been in the right path quite
some time. Developing countries in particular are vulnerable. So oftentimes
they have authoritarian governments and problems with efficiency and corruption,
and so elfcare workers have increased challenges doing their job.
(06:06):
The infrastructure isn't there, right, I think right, just like
being on the ground is visiting the university, and it's
in our best interest and the relations will improve. Even
the most vile dictator is responsible for the health of
(06:27):
the children of the country he's running. Yeah, yeah, health
industries that are reasonable people. We should probably not concern
ourselves with this regime change because we're not politicians, but
being the best for the common good.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
One of the things that scares me, doctor is the
fact that you know, and I've been saying this for
about two or three years now, is the war in
Ukraine as well as the war in Gaza. I cannot
imagine what that is doing to our universe due to
our atmosphere, not only there, but around the world, because
it travels around the entire planet. What are we doing
(07:09):
to ourselves? And can science come in here and be
the superhero The Calvary is coming?
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Well, those two problems as you mentioned there extremely complicated
and difficult, but the leadership of the factions involved are
going to have to back down. And that's the responsibility
is United Nations centuries. We can't tolerate damaging for a
(07:45):
whole generation.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
One of the things that you bring up inside the
book that I guess maybe I'm just that ignorant. I've
never associated North Korea with volcanoes until your book. I
never even made that associate.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Well, there are vol fanoes there. There's a little dozen
around the world, and there reactions and one in North Korea.
It's a thousand years which is very short time in
geologic time, right, a thousand years ago erupted one and
(08:23):
it was an enormous explosion. The evidence in Antarctica that explosion.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Your book, your book is going to create conversation in
the way that you're introducing to the masses that scientists
aren't just sitting in laboratories messing around with different chemicals
and different molecules and things that you're dealing with famine, disease,
climate disasters. And I mean, I mean, because we can
we can look at what's going on right now with
Hurricane Melissa, and and and right away I want to
(08:55):
turn to you doctor and go, I don't understand, and
I think that the majority of the people don't understand,
but it keeps happening over and over again.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yes, we have knowledge, and information is not deployed efficiently, Melissa,
last five storm is unfrecedented level. We'll sweep across the Cuba.
We should be tightly aligned with their ammuniations to know
(09:28):
exactly what HiT's them, because it's been in our East coast.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Eventually, So, now do you ever study human behavior in
the way of going, Okay, what are these crazy humans
up to today? How are we going to get them?
Buy something we've been working on for a long time,
because no matter what, we will always need regular people
support in order to plunge through all of these mountains.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yeah, that's absolutely true. The public understanding and approval is essential,
and that's something I think in science are trying hard
to remedy. I mean, had a wonderful institution here at
Johns Hopkins and Malaria Research Institute and getting stories out
(10:17):
to the public. Much what you're doing. You're bringing clients
to the public and when they understand it, they almost
always agree that this is the proper and intelligence pass
to follow.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Yeah, what are you learning from a project such as
this the book?
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Well, I'm seventies seven years old in January, I'm still
learning things of Coached by the Hopkins Press to participate
in their their series Wavelength Things All It and they
initially asked me about writing a book about our science,
(11:02):
you know, my own laboratory and other laboratories on the
water channel proteins. I felt that that has been reviewed
in depth, and I wanted to some of the observations
I've made as president of the American Associations in the
Deathment Science and have visited North Korea and Suba, And
(11:24):
so the book is a retelling of those meetings and
what we learned from them, and some other stories where scientists,
not really American scientists, have taken trips to places where
(11:46):
they were not well represented and conference things that our
government would very much benefit from it they're unable to institute.
The elders chairing with are younger.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
I got to ask you a question, and this might
be too much, and if I've crossed the path, you
can tell me. I'll go in and I'll erase it.
But the question is, is that with the way that
they're breaking down on these visas for all of these
scientists and the way that they're breaking down on science period,
Are we facing a mass exodus the way that Germany
lost their their scientists during their heyday, because it seems
(12:25):
like that they want to push scientists away, and it's like, no,
we need to embrace science right now more than any
other time.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Well raise a very historically disturbing series of events that
occurred in Germany. Yes, and they were a lim warriors,
amazing technology, but the loss of the scientists in the
(12:55):
end probably us in the war. I think the United
States as loyales in the United States, and for the
most art, we're happy here, our families are here.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
And I see this as a temporary, damaging, okay, unnecessary
series of action. We used to thing we were the
good guy.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Yeah, so true, so true. So I'm gonna I'm gonna
ask kind of a personal question in the way of
because I am addicted to watching global television in the
way of for when it comes to chefs as well
as people who travel the world. I see a lot
of beautiful parts of this country, only to open up
my local newspaper to find out that a leader wants
(13:43):
to try a new nuclear bomb, And of course what
do I think about I think about those nations that
I get to visit on my flat screen TV. I
think what will it be over for them as well?
It's just I'm you know, I can't be the only
one who's in fear of this current threat to the
entire planet.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Well, it's been dangerous for some time, and I think
because we've not had a nuclear explosion attack since nineteen
forty five, there may be a lack of fear and
(14:24):
assumption that everything will go on. I think that the
dangers now are right, probably not as large as they
were back in the sixties in the missile crisis there
was still considerable and possession of nuclear weapons is now
(14:45):
in the ends of the North Koreans and they're operating
with the Iranians. We met North Korean ambassadors and iron
the they were there. Yeah, there are they are dangers.
I share your apprehension, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Yeah, yeah. Where can people go to find out more
about you? Doctor Peter? And the reason why I say
this in a very heartfelt way is because you have
put all of this in a way of better understanding.
You didn't overstuff your you know your paragraphs with things.
This is for the average person to be able to
go in there and understand your message. You have done
it in such a very connecting way.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Well, I had a wonderful co author. I was just
sma Yasmin and I think it was a new experience
to me and write a book with at all, and
I have a partner in it. But I think it's mean. Actually,
please the got we got the story right. Yeah, I'm
(15:52):
easy to find out the internet if we want to
read by wikipedif.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
But you know what's really interesting about your book, doctor,
is the fact that so many times we're finding ourselves
wanting to reach out to another landing on the moon,
or we want to go to Mars. But your book
keeps my feet on the ground. And I'm gonna pull
this from Casey Casem. You make me want to keep
my feet on the ground while keep reaching for the stars.
In other words, I want to take care of my
planet first, then we can go explore.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
I think that's sensible. Space exploration is fantastically important. We
have great social problems in this country that have higher
priority in my view.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Wow, well you've got to come back to this show
anytime in the future. I just love where your heart
is when it comes to doing this, and it really
does open up the door for conversations.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Well, you're very kind. I hope I live up.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
To that you will you? I heard you're seventy seven
years old.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Moses was still much older than you, so you've got
a lot to go, sir. Don't you even think about
yourself that age?
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Oh? Thank you you flattering me.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Will you be brilliant today?
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Okay, sir, thank you, thank you.
Sure, we're on iHeartRadio, Spotify and every digital platform there is.
But why go they're searching for everything we've got when
you can just go to arrow dot net A R
R O E dot net.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Good morning, This is Peter Agy and Baltimo or is
this Aerocollins?
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Yes it is, doctor. How are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I'm doing about yourself.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Well, I'm very grateful that we're taking the time to
have a conversation here because you've got a subject here
that it's on the edge of everybody's tongue. But why
is it that nobody's jumping into it and making it
a part.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Of our hearing.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Okay, I think you're your book is coming in at
such a major important time because the thing about it is, though,
is that people it's on the edge of their tongue,
but they're not talking about it on an everyday basis.
But your book really inspires me start the conversation, dude,
And that's exactly what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Well. I think it is a call to action. I
think things are very ominous. Is the better ways to
pursue things? And I think the United States has a
great resource in its science and technical of people who
(01:13):
are skilled in past are now done around the world
were looking at as leaders and open doors.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yeah, but are you Are you in fear in any way,
shape or form with the cutbacks that they're doing at
the universities where it's getting tougher and tougher to get
a visa here in the States, because that, to me
is sending the brain children to a different location on
the planet.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
It is very difficult. It was always exceedingly competitive to
good grants from federal agencies, but when they arrived, they
were generous, and great things happen. But now it's we've
been in a state of free fall for the last
half year and their entire institutes that are on hold,
(01:58):
maybe four percent of the grass will get funded, but
the money doesn't arrive. I think universities are really very
worried that chief people will give up science. Right the
work will be interrupted and it's not like you can
just plug it back in and move along. Well difficult trial.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
That's one of the things that I'm taking note of
lately is that there is such a push right now
for STEM research and to get these kids into these
STEM programs that that it's like you, if we don't
start them young they're then they're going to be disassociated
when they get into like a college level of learning.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
That's true, it's not easy bachelornds who achieve and we
have I think a good interests in our youngest in
terms of computer activities and use digital electronic, other mathematical
(03:05):
and physical and biological sum Afraid, there's not the excitement
and the young people, but young people from abroad are
very interested in these subjects are coming to the United States.
It's World War two until recently.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah, until until yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
See that's that's the part that's got my attention until recently,
and and and dang it anyway, that's part of our
generation until recently.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yes, it's it's something that we've paused by national policy.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
So now, one of the things that I learned during
the lockdown, and I thought this was very inspiring, science
and the government were finally starting to work together as one.
It's almost like they were chumming up. But nowadays, when
you look at it, it's like, what happened to this breakdown?
It seems like everybody's going to their separate rooms now.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Yes, well, I think private scientists have worked with governmental
agencies for decades, but the endemic coincided with about face
and there was a public trust. I think there was
(04:28):
so much confused and with regard to how we could
protect ourselves and others and who should wear a mask
and who doesn't need to. And it's understandable. People will
get you. You're irritated when they're frightened, and they get
ambiguous answers. But we've learned from that, and certainly the
(04:51):
development of vaccines during the COVID these are new record times,
very effective vaccine.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Please do not move. There's more with doctor Peter coming
up next. Hey, we're talking science today. Let's get back
into that talk with doctor Peter. One of the things
that I'm taking note of, especially lately in the past
let's say one to two years, is the fact that
the US is doing more than just sending ambassadors out
to make a nice nice with other nations. They're actually
(05:21):
sending out science as well to help broker peace. Because
I mean, I mean, because I keep hearing about the
minerals in the earth, the minerals in the earth, Well,
the only people that know about those minerals to me
are the scientists. What are they up to? And are
we on the right path.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Well, I think we've been in the right path quite
some time. Developing countries in particular are vulnerable. So oftentimes
they have authoritarian governments and problems with efficiency and corruption,
and so elfcare workers have increased challenges doing their job.
(06:06):
The infrastructure isn't there, right, I think right, just like
being on the ground is visiting the university, and it's
in our best interest and the relations will improve. Even
the most vile dictator is responsible for the health of
(06:27):
the children of the country he's running. Yeah, yeah, health
industries that are reasonable people. We should probably not concern
ourselves with this regime change because we're not politicians, but
being the best for the common good.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
One of the things that scares me, doctor is the
fact that you know, and I've been saying this for
about two or three years now, is the war in
Ukraine as well as the war in Gaza. I cannot
imagine what that is doing to our universe due to
our atmosphere, not only there, but around the world, because
it travels around the entire planet. What are we doing
(07:09):
to ourselves? And can science come in here and be
the superhero The Calvary is coming?
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Well, those two problems as you mentioned there extremely complicated
and difficult, but the leadership of the factions involved are
going to have to back down. And that's the responsibility
is United Nations centuries. We can't tolerate damaging for a
(07:45):
whole generation.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
One of the things that you bring up inside the
book that I guess maybe I'm just that ignorant. I've
never associated North Korea with volcanoes until your book. I
never even made that associate.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Well, there are vol fanoes there. There's a little dozen
around the world, and there reactions and one in North Korea.
It's a thousand years which is very short time in
geologic time, right, a thousand years ago erupted one and
(08:23):
it was an enormous explosion. The evidence in Antarctica that explosion.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Your book, your book is going to create conversation in
the way that you're introducing to the masses that scientists
aren't just sitting in laboratories messing around with different chemicals
and different molecules and things that you're dealing with famine, disease,
climate disasters. And I mean, I mean, because we can
we can look at what's going on right now with
Hurricane Melissa, and and and right away I want to
(08:55):
turn to you doctor and go, I don't understand, and
I think that the majority of the people don't understand,
but it keeps happening over and over again.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yes, we have knowledge, and information is not deployed efficiently, Melissa,
last five storm is unfrecedented level. We'll sweep across the Cuba.
We should be tightly aligned with their ammuniations to know
(09:28):
exactly what HiT's them, because it's been in our East coast.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Eventually, So, now do you ever study human behavior in
the way of going, Okay, what are these crazy humans
up to today? How are we going to get them?
Buy something we've been working on for a long time,
because no matter what, we will always need regular people
support in order to plunge through all of these mountains.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yeah, that's absolutely true. The public understanding and approval is essential,
and that's something I think in science are trying hard
to remedy. I mean, had a wonderful institution here at
Johns Hopkins and Malaria Research Institute and getting stories out
(10:17):
to the public. Much what you're doing. You're bringing clients
to the public and when they understand it, they almost
always agree that this is the proper and intelligence pass
to follow.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Yeah, what are you learning from a project such as
this the book?
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Well, I'm seventies seven years old in January, I'm still
learning things of Coached by the Hopkins Press to participate
in their their series Wavelength Things All It and they
initially asked me about writing a book about our science,
(11:02):
you know, my own laboratory and other laboratories on the
water channel proteins. I felt that that has been reviewed
in depth, and I wanted to some of the observations
I've made as president of the American Associations in the
Deathment Science and have visited North Korea and Suba, And
(11:24):
so the book is a retelling of those meetings and
what we learned from them, and some other stories where scientists,
not really American scientists, have taken trips to places where
(11:46):
they were not well represented and conference things that our
government would very much benefit from it they're unable to institute.
The elders chairing with are younger.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
I got to ask you a question, and this might
be too much, and if I've crossed the path, you
can tell me. I'll go in and I'll erase it.
But the question is, is that with the way that
they're breaking down on these visas for all of these
scientists and the way that they're breaking down on science period,
Are we facing a mass exodus the way that Germany
lost their their scientists during their heyday, because it seems
(12:25):
like that they want to push scientists away, and it's like, no,
we need to embrace science right now more than any
other time.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Well raise a very historically disturbing series of events that
occurred in Germany. Yes, and they were a lim warriors,
amazing technology, but the loss of the scientists in the
(12:55):
end probably us in the war. I think the United
States as loyales in the United States, and for the
most art, we're happy here, our families are here.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
And I see this as a temporary, damaging, okay, unnecessary
series of action. We used to thing we were the
good guy.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Yeah, so true, so true. So I'm gonna I'm gonna
ask kind of a personal question in the way of
because I am addicted to watching global television in the
way of for when it comes to chefs as well
as people who travel the world. I see a lot
of beautiful parts of this country, only to open up
my local newspaper to find out that a leader wants
(13:43):
to try a new nuclear bomb, And of course what
do I think about I think about those nations that
I get to visit on my flat screen TV. I
think what will it be over for them as well?
It's just I'm you know, I can't be the only
one who's in fear of this current threat to the
entire planet.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Well, it's been dangerous for some time, and I think
because we've not had a nuclear explosion attack since nineteen
forty five, there may be a lack of fear and
(14:24):
assumption that everything will go on. I think that the
dangers now are right, probably not as large as they
were back in the sixties in the missile crisis there
was still considerable and possession of nuclear weapons is now
(14:45):
in the ends of the North Koreans and they're operating
with the Iranians. We met North Korean ambassadors and iron
the they were there. Yeah, there are they are dangers.
I share your apprehension, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Yeah, yeah. Where can people go to find out more
about you? Doctor Peter? And the reason why I say
this in a very heartfelt way is because you have
put all of this in a way of better understanding.
You didn't overstuff your you know your paragraphs with things.
This is for the average person to be able to
go in there and understand your message. You have done
it in such a very connecting way.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Well, I had a wonderful co author. I was just
sma Yasmin and I think it was a new experience
to me and write a book with at all, and
I have a partner in it. But I think it's mean. Actually,
please the got we got the story right. Yeah, I'm
(15:52):
easy to find out the internet if we want to
read by wikipedif.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
But you know what's really interesting about your book, doctor,
is the fact that so many times we're finding ourselves
wanting to reach out to another landing on the moon,
or we want to go to Mars. But your book
keeps my feet on the ground. And I'm gonna pull
this from Casey Casem. You make me want to keep
my feet on the ground while keep reaching for the stars.
In other words, I want to take care of my
planet first, then we can go explore.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
I think that's sensible. Space exploration is fantastically important. We
have great social problems in this country that have higher
priority in my view.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Wow, well you've got to come back to this show
anytime in the future. I just love where your heart
is when it comes to doing this, and it really
does open up the door for conversations.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Well, you're very kind. I hope I live up.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
To that you will you? I heard you're seventy seven
years old.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Moses was still much older than you, so you've got
a lot to go, sir. Don't you even think about
yourself that age?
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Oh? Thank you you flattering me.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Will you be brilliant today?
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Okay, sir, thank you, thank you.
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