September 13, 2025 • 20 mins
Welcome back to the studio. This is My Day of Play, where you’re taken into the real events and actions of how it happens long before the process of editing or cleaning up. The original purpose of these episodes was to give my broadcasting students something to edit, to practice with and to call their own. Then I realized that you are just as important. Share the reality of how it really went. We begin things with Fox Sports and NFL play by play announcer Chris Myers. His project was That Deserves A WOW! Then we’ll leap into an unedited conversation with two legendary actors working together to preserve American history Mark Harman of NCIS and technical director Leon Carroll Jr. This is My Day of Play. Completely unedited in the way of meeting the wizard behind the curtain.
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, welcome back to the studio.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
This is my day of play, where you're taken into
the really fancin actions of how it happens, long before
the process of editing or cleaning up. The original purpose
of these episodes was to give my broadcasting students something
to edit, to practice with, and to call their own.
And then I realized, wait a second, you're just as
important as they are. Why not share the real adventure
with you as well. We begin things with Fox Sports
(00:23):
and NFL play by play announcer Chris Myers. His project
was that deserves a wow. Then we're going to leap
into an unedited conversation with two legendary entertainment people working
together to preserve American history, Mark Harmon of NCIS and
technical director Leon Carroll Junior. This is my day of play,
(00:43):
completely unedited, in the way of meeting the wizard behind
the curtain? What's going on?
Speaker 1 (00:49):
All right?
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Thank you?
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Fresh, He's all yours. Take them until thirty two. Excellent,
Good morning. How are you doing today?
Speaker 3 (00:54):
I'm great?
Speaker 1 (00:55):
You do it all right, fantastic.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
We had to define that word wow right now, and
the reason why is because this past weekend with Kansas
City Chiefs and the Bills. For Chiefs fans, it was
like a wow moment versus what that quarterback did for
the Bills. That was a wow moment.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
Yeah, I had the game deserved a wow. And you
described that because wow is we use that word in
our lives, not just in sports, more than we realize.
And it's not just the great moments. It could be surprised,
you know, wow, or it could be you know, it's
something's not so good, like you're referenced wow.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
You know.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
I started to hear that kind of thing. So this
book covers a lot of that, some of the high
points in sports and people's lives, and then some you know,
some low point. There are some difficult moments in here.
And I'm just talking about you know, losing a game
or a super Bowl. I'm talking about you know, tragedy
where where somebody has to deal with that.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
So yeah, I think it.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
You know, those Sports Center days when I did that
before moving on to Fox, they call them catchphrases. We
didn't and I write about that here. We didn't sit
around saying let's make this a catchphrase. If it's something
you said a lot with your friends or watching a
game or whatever, and you use it, you know, that's
throw it in there, and people liked it or started
repeating it, then that's what made it. It's almost like
a nickname. You can't force that.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
What's great about this book is that it's bringing back
memories and so in other words, it's not lost in
an archive anymore because you're giving it to us for
us to go, Yeah, does it still have that impact?
And I had to sit there and think, Okay, what
was one of my first wow moments right there in
the opening credits of Wide World of Sports, the agony
of defeat. To this day, I'm still feeling that wow moment.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
Yeah, And that's one of the reasons I wanted to
write the book from the inside out, from my view,
and it's not so it's yeah, it's about it's a
little bit about me, but it's more about sports and
how they mirror our lives and my view of how
I grew up. Why I ask the questions I do,
Why I cover the stories the way I do, or
call the games I do, or interview people the way
I do. And I fortunate enough through the years to
(02:48):
have done a lot of different things. Play by place, field,
reporters in World Series and Super Bowls have an half
hour interview show nationally on Up Close for four years
and really get to know some people there, Bill Murray
writing the forwards, and becoming friends with him through the years.
So that's yeah, that's and there are wild moments, and
(03:08):
these are there's a lot of moments to hear you say.
I remember where I was the OJ Simpson interview. You know,
people remember it was the Trial of the Century, so
that brought a lot of attention, and as a kid,
I remember wow moments, and that's what I wanted to
share from my point of view so people could remember
them as well.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Let's talk about that Bill Murray forward because he says
some things in here that really I want to take
it to my broadcasting classes and let them understand what
that word concise really is because it's powerful and starting
the book off like this, Oh my god, it's such
a hook.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Well, I really appreciate him doing it because she hates
a lean up friends for something. But where they said
when I put this together and who should write the foreward?
There's so many different candidates, but I'm like, you know,
if Bill, I know he's a busy guy. If he
says he'll do something, he'll do it. And so I
asked him and he said, yeah, I'll do it. And
then the hard part was was was tracking him down.
But because we've known each other since the early nineties
for more than thirty years, and and I you know,
(03:59):
it comes from a family. He's a big sports fan,
he loves comedy, so those were things we had in common.
He's the kind of guy and in the book you
get to know him a little more beyond what you
see on the screen. He's the kind of guy that
you'd like to hang out with or be a friend of,
even if he wasn't famous. And I really appreciate that about.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Well.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
One of the things that really sticks out in the book.
Maybe it's because I am a broadcaster, but I love
the way that you dedicated the book to all the
good people that you've worked with, Because so many times
those on the sidelines don't get the credit, and you're going, hey, look, yeah,
you were there with me, Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
When they say at the credit, say to you, who
do you want to you know, thank for this? I
said that, you know, really, I don't want to leave
anybody out whether it was when I when I had
my first talk radio show in Miami at sixteen, that
engineer I remember, Gordon Allen, and I you know, if
I want to include him. I mean there's some stories
and so I and even the producers on Fox or
when I go I'm in a super Bowl and they're
giving me help me get to the interview with Tom
(04:54):
Brady or whatever. So I just that's I thought it
was important because it really is a team game. You know,
we're out in front and we have people behind to see.
If they don't do their part, I can't do my part.
And I really APPREI I worked with a lot of
different people, really good people, good bosses too. I mean
that takes part to give you the chance to be
in these moments.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Did we live in oh wow moment this past weekend
with Mike Tyson and Jake Because I mean a lot
of people they're screaming, oh it's fake, And that to
me is I got like an I want to say, wow,
why are you acting this way? But I mean, I
but I have to document it as a wow moment.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
Yeah, I would, well I would. I'd say that deserves
an owl, because yeah, you guy, I won't for entertay,
but that's really what that was. And you know, Tyson,
it was kind of sad to see having seen him
in his crime fight and to be their ringside and
interview him, which by the way of the book, I
know if you saw that interview where I was at
his house and I asked him about the Holy Field
(05:48):
ear biting and he lunched toward me, calling me names,
trying to beat me up. But thankfully the guys he
trained with helped him hold him back. I could have
been bounded by Mike Tyson, but which is a fascinating story,
and then more about his personality. But yeah, you know
what a sports fan, we're hungbry. You look at the ratings.
Everything live in sports is what's being showed up on
(06:09):
radio and television and streaming. So if somebody wants to
do that and watch it, fine, A lot, you know,
a lot of people watched them were entertained. I don't
know if it was rigged or whatever. It was a
money making deal for both guys. They seem to have
a good time and survive it, so I'm okay with that.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Nineteen eighty nine I remember very well. I was in
the news room of a radio station here in Charlotte,
North Carolina, and the World Series was set to begin,
and you were there during that earthquake.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
Yes, in the auxiliary stance covering it as the reporter
for ESPN with Chris Berman, Bobley and Joe Tory was
actually our guest analyst. He was in between managerial jobs
at the time. And we're so up at the sand.
It's sound like a plane, like a small plane. It
hit the back of Candlestick Park, and so I had
been through an earthquake mild before, so I, okay, if
(06:54):
it's not that, then that's what we experienced. And it almost
looked like the field rumbled way like a way, but
it didn't, but visually that's how it fell to us.
And then you saw players scrambling to get near their
families that were either in the stands, and then we
hustled down and our satellite truck we got on the
air right away. We're reporting al Michaels and the network
was able to stay on the air because of that,
because of that truck. But then we you know, I
(07:16):
was assigned to go talk to this is the bash brothers,
Mark Maguire and Conseko and Tony LaRusso manager of the time,
and just to you know, make sure where their mindset was,
where they okay, their families. And we didn't realize because
that that stadium was built into bedrock, was actually pretty
safe spot the damage far beyond until days later. But
I had to stay that week to report on the information,
(07:39):
and you know, the World Series again secondary to the
loss of life and repairing a city. But eventually they
got it played. But yeah, that was a that was
a different kind of well moment. There's quite a few
of those that go beyond sports.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
You've got to come back to this show anytime in
the future. Man, Six or seven minutes with you is
not enough.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Dude.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
Well, I'm glad you brought up what you did because
if you get the book, you'll you read a lot
more of me. Anytime you let me know, I'd be
glad to talk about it.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Will you'd be brilliant today? Okay, sir, all right, thank
you very much, please do not move.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Coming up next, it's Mark Harmon and Leon Carroll Jr. Hey,
thanks for coming back to my day of play completely
one hundred ten unedited conversations. Let's jump into that one
with Mark Harmon and Leon Carroll Jr.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Recording in progress rock On what's going on? You guys?
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Go ahead?
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Good morning? How are you doing? Mark and Leon?
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Good? How are you doing this morning?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Absolutely fantastic. I gotta tell you, I'm very grateful for
this book. And the reason why is because in nineteen
eighty nine I was always in the newsroom collecting AP
stories because I'm so addicted to news. This book right
here is something I wish I would have had, because
you go in detail. It's not a thirty second SoundBite.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
That's good to hear. I think it's intended to do that.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
It's certainly a story that opens up whatever it is
anybody thinks they know about Panama or about this time
period or operation just caused, or you know, someone like
Manuel Noriega. I certainly found myself knowing a lot more
than I thought I knew. And that's also part of
(09:19):
the reason to tell this story in the first place.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Am I wrong to think that back in the early
part of the nineteen eighties, Why was it that a
lot of people thought Manuel was basically a hero? Then
everything just kind of turned twisted and went a completely
different direction. Or was I just one of those crazy
Americans that didn't know the full story.
Speaker 6 (09:36):
Well, I think partially the full story. But I think
that he changed. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely,
and I think that's what happened with him. I mean
early on, when he was a young officer, we trained
him and intelligence methods and he became the director of
intelligence for the Panamanian Defense Force. And there were rumors
(09:59):
that he he was behind the killing of Tory Torrijos,
who was his predecessor, and that plane crash. Now I
don't know if that was ever verified, but I think
what happened was he became a part of the whole
intelligence apparatus. By that I mean the Americans and other
countries as well that were operating in Panama, and I
(10:20):
think he was on everyone's payroll. Actually I'm not even
sure if we weren't paying him at some point, but
I think the drugs really really became an issue in
Kawama was a transhipment point and he was making a
lot of money doing that, and he was also making
a lot of money from.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
The financial of money laundering. So I think that all
changed mid eighties, and we take that up with rick Yell.
Speaker 6 (10:49):
And we go from there, and I think that those
are the things that maybe Americans didn't know about, but
there was a change in how he operated.
Speaker 5 (10:59):
Is that part of what inspired you to write the story?
Speaker 6 (11:01):
To show the American people.
Speaker 5 (11:03):
Like more of the side of the story they probably
haven't heard of.
Speaker 6 (11:07):
No, Actually, you know, my reason for wanting this story
told was to tell the story of the agents that
actually worked and provided the information that led the President
to make the decision.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
To do this invasion. It had never been told.
Speaker 6 (11:26):
Most people, even within our agency, probably don't know this story,
the insides of this story, So my goal was to
do that. I arrived there shortly after, about a year
or so, and I was reading the reports and I
just thought, hey, this is something that you know, people
should really read about, you know, thirty forty years later,
(11:47):
because when I saw the President announcing the invasion, I
remembered what he said, and now I'm reading a report
that is saying.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Identical to what he read.
Speaker 6 (11:58):
So I knew that these eyes had done something that
really was behind the decision to go into Panama.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
The book we're talking about is Ghosts of Panama. Listeners
need to understand who Rick Yell was and to me,
this is almost like a Tom Clancy novel because he's
a regular civilian, but he's also an agent. That right there,
that's two different personalities.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Well not really. I think that we recruit people.
Speaker 6 (12:28):
When you say agent, it means different things in different
intelligence areas. Agents for CIA is actually what I think
you're thinking of. This individual was a government employee special
agent who recruited what we would call a confidential informant
and who had access to the inner workings of the
Noriega administration.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
So his job was to do what we all do.
Speaker 6 (12:53):
And that's to protect the assets of the Navy and
the Marine Corps.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
And because of the base.
Speaker 6 (12:58):
Down there, we were able to do that utilizing sources
like the one that we termed the old Man.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
In this particular story.
Speaker 6 (13:06):
So I think Yelle himself, who I know and knew
through training and definitely knew by reputation by the time
I got there. He was someone who was trained to
do criminal investigations in other words, murders and robber rees
and that nature.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
And now he's doing counterintelligence work.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
How locked in was President Bush because I mean when
he started making his move and things I learned in
the book that Rick's family is now affected.
Speaker 6 (13:33):
Well, I think they were affected only from the standpoint
of being in country at the time that was happening.
I couldn't answer the question about, you know, the president
that's you know, way was above our pay grade. But
we tried to weave that into how the information flowed
up to the national level, and I think he was
(13:53):
taking he was being briefed on what was going on
in terms of how the Panamanian Defense Force was being
so aggressive against American citizens and military personnel. And I
think that's what made the final decision when Lieutenant Robert
Poz was killed at a checkpoint in Panama.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Yeah, December sixteenth.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
And so I mean, and that's one of the stories
that I went back and found the SoundBite and it's
like it's like wow, and then but then I have
to go back to the pages and then I get
even more of the story, right right, So, now, what
what creates the mystery in this book? Because I mean
this this book, Ghost of Panama really does carry that
that vibe about it. There's also a mystery the old Man,
(14:35):
that's the secret source, the Old Man, and it's like oh, yeah,
we got we can go there.
Speaker 6 (14:41):
Yeah, yeah, and you know that he's only known as
the old Man, and that's for a reason. But he
was quite a character. I actually did two meets with
him myself, and he was just just an interesting individual.
But what he was doing was because he had loved
his country. He was no fan of what Noriega had become,
(15:03):
and he really wanted the country to survive as a
democracy and having a dictator running it just wasn't up
his alley. So he was a very willing participant. Money
was not a motivator for him. We always laughed because
all he wanted us to provide were sticky buns which
he could use to take into certain meetings. And actually,
(15:27):
as I said earlier, the Panamanians they do great bake goods,
but these were from the px ON base that we
would buy the commissary and they.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Went a long way. So I think the young.
Speaker 6 (15:40):
Man, personality wise, it's just a very unique individual. And
just the two times that I met with him, I
was impressed, and.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
I think he was. He was. He was actually you know,
checking us out as well.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
So I mean, first of all, for you to go
in there took a lot of courage, and then to
build up this relationship with the old man. I mean,
where does that training come from.
Speaker 6 (16:06):
Well, I would say for sure, I was a foreign
counter intelligence specialist, and our training was very extensive. I
mean I was in and out of schools all the time.
So it's something that you do through muscle memory. I mean,
you know, doing things like valance detection routes. We're all
trained to do those things, and we outline some of
(16:27):
that in the book that Rick and his compadres had
to deal with. But I think it just it's what
we do. I mean, that's what we sign up to
do the job for and it comes to second nature
after a while.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
My father loves books like this, and the reason why
he would sit there and tell me, you got to
read this. This is the wild West in your time.
You got to read this.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
I got to tell you.
Speaker 6 (16:50):
When I arrived there, I thought I had arrived in
the Wild West, because I was met by two.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
When we got into vehicle.
Speaker 6 (16:57):
Right from the airport to the base, they whipped out
us the sub machine guns, and I went, what the
hell did I get myself into?
Speaker 1 (17:06):
So then the Cuban military arrives.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
I did not know this, and to me, that made
it deeper than the storyline, and they were anti American.
Speaker 6 (17:17):
Correct, and I think that was one of the one
of the areas where we were kind of challenged, or
the od man's information was challenged, and I think but
it made sense. I mean, one of the things that
we did at that time because the Russians at that
time Soviet Union, they had shifts that would come into
(17:38):
the port about Boa, and that was one of our
areas of interest. And so to hear that, you know,
we had people from Cuba coming in that was that
was a little different, and that changed the game. I'm
sure up above, you know, up at the HEADSHD in DC.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Creating a book such as this with so much history involved,
I mean, first of all, I love to research. Research
is really my goal. But then to turn it into
a storyline, to turn it into a book that's coming
out here for the readers as well as the listeners.
What is that transition like for the two of you
as writers.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
Well, it's just it's not unlike the TV show.
Speaker 5 (18:16):
It's an opportunity to tell a story. And that's part
of what Leanna and I talked about from the beginning,
is an opportunity of a story to tell and is there.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
A way here ahead?
Speaker 5 (18:31):
And I don't think either were one of us ever
thought about being a writer or being a publisher and
writing a book.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
And that was initially.
Speaker 5 (18:41):
What this started as, which was a literary offer to say, hey,
are you interested in writing a book about the show?
I said no, but I would be interested about writing
about what this show was sold to me in the
first place, as, which was true stories about this agency
(19:02):
that no one knew anything about. They didn't know what
they did before the TV show. No one had ever
heard of it. If you googled NCIS back twenty years ago,
there was nothing. There was nothing on it, and there
was a reason for that. That's how these people do
their job and do it well because people don't know
(19:23):
that they're doing it. But now, if you were to
google and CIS, there would be pages and pages and
pages and pages of ninety nine point nine percent of
it would be about a TV show. So this is
a chance to work with the you know, I call
him the release, but Leon is as honest and as
(19:45):
real as I know, and he was my guy every
day on that show, a guy that I talked to
all the time and probably bothered more often than not
but I was always interested to know his take, what
he did, how he handled this or that, and just
prepared in the stuff you do as an actor. And
(20:06):
through that educationally I grew respect not only for this individual,
but this agency and the people who do this job.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
You guys, where can we go to get more information
besides the book? Because I mean, you did the story
about Hawaii and I know inside your hearts you're probably wondering, Okay,
so what's the next big mystery?
Speaker 1 (20:31):
There's plenty of them. There's plenty there are. Is there
a website that you guys have come up with?
Speaker 6 (20:38):
No, that's a good question. I don't know that we
would want to do that, but we've never been asked.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Actually, please come back to this show anytime in the future.
The door is always going to be open for you.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Be brilliant today, you guys all righty, thank
Speaker 3 (20:55):
You so much.
Hey, welcome back to the studio.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
This is my day of play, where you're taken into
the really fancin actions of how it happens, long before
the process of editing or cleaning up. The original purpose
of these episodes was to give my broadcasting students something
to edit, to practice with, and to call their own.
And then I realized, wait a second, you're just as
important as they are. Why not share the real adventure
with you as well. We begin things with Fox Sports
(00:23):
and NFL play by play announcer Chris Myers. His project
was that deserves a wow. Then we're going to leap
into an unedited conversation with two legendary entertainment people working
together to preserve American history, Mark Harmon of NCIS and
technical director Leon Carroll Junior. This is my day of play,
(00:43):
completely unedited, in the way of meeting the wizard behind
the curtain? What's going on?
Speaker 1 (00:49):
All right?
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Thank you?
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Fresh, He's all yours. Take them until thirty two. Excellent,
Good morning. How are you doing today?
Speaker 3 (00:54):
I'm great?
Speaker 1 (00:55):
You do it all right, fantastic.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
We had to define that word wow right now, and
the reason why is because this past weekend with Kansas
City Chiefs and the Bills. For Chiefs fans, it was
like a wow moment versus what that quarterback did for
the Bills. That was a wow moment.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
Yeah, I had the game deserved a wow. And you
described that because wow is we use that word in
our lives, not just in sports, more than we realize.
And it's not just the great moments. It could be surprised,
you know, wow, or it could be you know, it's
something's not so good, like you're referenced wow.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
You know.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
I started to hear that kind of thing. So this
book covers a lot of that, some of the high
points in sports and people's lives, and then some you know,
some low point. There are some difficult moments in here.
And I'm just talking about you know, losing a game
or a super Bowl. I'm talking about you know, tragedy
where where somebody has to deal with that.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
So yeah, I think it.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
You know, those Sports Center days when I did that
before moving on to Fox, they call them catchphrases. We
didn't and I write about that here. We didn't sit
around saying let's make this a catchphrase. If it's something
you said a lot with your friends or watching a
game or whatever, and you use it, you know, that's
throw it in there, and people liked it or started
repeating it, then that's what made it. It's almost like
a nickname. You can't force that.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
What's great about this book is that it's bringing back
memories and so in other words, it's not lost in
an archive anymore because you're giving it to us for
us to go, Yeah, does it still have that impact?
And I had to sit there and think, Okay, what
was one of my first wow moments right there in
the opening credits of Wide World of Sports, the agony
of defeat. To this day, I'm still feeling that wow moment.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
Yeah, And that's one of the reasons I wanted to
write the book from the inside out, from my view,
and it's not so it's yeah, it's about it's a
little bit about me, but it's more about sports and
how they mirror our lives and my view of how
I grew up. Why I ask the questions I do,
Why I cover the stories the way I do, or
call the games I do, or interview people the way
I do. And I fortunate enough through the years to
(02:48):
have done a lot of different things. Play by place, field,
reporters in World Series and Super Bowls have an half
hour interview show nationally on Up Close for four years
and really get to know some people there, Bill Murray
writing the forwards, and becoming friends with him through the years.
So that's yeah, that's and there are wild moments, and
(03:08):
these are there's a lot of moments to hear you say.
I remember where I was the OJ Simpson interview. You know,
people remember it was the Trial of the Century, so
that brought a lot of attention, and as a kid,
I remember wow moments, and that's what I wanted to
share from my point of view so people could remember
them as well.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Let's talk about that Bill Murray forward because he says
some things in here that really I want to take
it to my broadcasting classes and let them understand what
that word concise really is because it's powerful and starting
the book off like this, Oh my god, it's such
a hook.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Well, I really appreciate him doing it because she hates
a lean up friends for something. But where they said
when I put this together and who should write the foreward?
There's so many different candidates, but I'm like, you know,
if Bill, I know he's a busy guy. If he
says he'll do something, he'll do it. And so I
asked him and he said, yeah, I'll do it. And
then the hard part was was was tracking him down.
But because we've known each other since the early nineties
for more than thirty years, and and I you know,
(03:59):
it comes from a family. He's a big sports fan,
he loves comedy, so those were things we had in common.
He's the kind of guy and in the book you
get to know him a little more beyond what you
see on the screen. He's the kind of guy that
you'd like to hang out with or be a friend of,
even if he wasn't famous. And I really appreciate that about.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Well.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
One of the things that really sticks out in the book.
Maybe it's because I am a broadcaster, but I love
the way that you dedicated the book to all the
good people that you've worked with, Because so many times
those on the sidelines don't get the credit, and you're going, hey, look, yeah,
you were there with me, Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
When they say at the credit, say to you, who
do you want to you know, thank for this? I
said that, you know, really, I don't want to leave
anybody out whether it was when I when I had
my first talk radio show in Miami at sixteen, that
engineer I remember, Gordon Allen, and I you know, if
I want to include him. I mean there's some stories
and so I and even the producers on Fox or
when I go I'm in a super Bowl and they're
giving me help me get to the interview with Tom
(04:54):
Brady or whatever. So I just that's I thought it
was important because it really is a team game. You know,
we're out in front and we have people behind to see.
If they don't do their part, I can't do my part.
And I really APPREI I worked with a lot of
different people, really good people, good bosses too. I mean
that takes part to give you the chance to be
in these moments.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Did we live in oh wow moment this past weekend
with Mike Tyson and Jake Because I mean a lot
of people they're screaming, oh it's fake, And that to
me is I got like an I want to say, wow,
why are you acting this way? But I mean, I
but I have to document it as a wow moment.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
Yeah, I would, well I would. I'd say that deserves
an owl, because yeah, you guy, I won't for entertay,
but that's really what that was. And you know, Tyson,
it was kind of sad to see having seen him
in his crime fight and to be their ringside and
interview him, which by the way of the book, I
know if you saw that interview where I was at
his house and I asked him about the Holy Field
(05:48):
ear biting and he lunched toward me, calling me names,
trying to beat me up. But thankfully the guys he
trained with helped him hold him back. I could have
been bounded by Mike Tyson, but which is a fascinating story,
and then more about his personality. But yeah, you know
what a sports fan, we're hungbry. You look at the ratings.
Everything live in sports is what's being showed up on
(06:09):
radio and television and streaming. So if somebody wants to
do that and watch it, fine, A lot, you know,
a lot of people watched them were entertained. I don't
know if it was rigged or whatever. It was a
money making deal for both guys. They seem to have
a good time and survive it, so I'm okay with that.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Nineteen eighty nine I remember very well. I was in
the news room of a radio station here in Charlotte,
North Carolina, and the World Series was set to begin,
and you were there during that earthquake.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
Yes, in the auxiliary stance covering it as the reporter
for ESPN with Chris Berman, Bobley and Joe Tory was
actually our guest analyst. He was in between managerial jobs
at the time. And we're so up at the sand.
It's sound like a plane, like a small plane. It
hit the back of Candlestick Park, and so I had
been through an earthquake mild before, so I, okay, if
(06:54):
it's not that, then that's what we experienced. And it almost
looked like the field rumbled way like a way, but
it didn't, but visually that's how it fell to us.
And then you saw players scrambling to get near their
families that were either in the stands, and then we
hustled down and our satellite truck we got on the
air right away. We're reporting al Michaels and the network
was able to stay on the air because of that,
because of that truck. But then we you know, I
(07:16):
was assigned to go talk to this is the bash brothers,
Mark Maguire and Conseko and Tony LaRusso manager of the time,
and just to you know, make sure where their mindset was,
where they okay, their families. And we didn't realize because
that that stadium was built into bedrock, was actually pretty
safe spot the damage far beyond until days later. But
I had to stay that week to report on the information,
(07:39):
and you know, the World Series again secondary to the
loss of life and repairing a city. But eventually they
got it played. But yeah, that was a that was
a different kind of well moment. There's quite a few
of those that go beyond sports.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
You've got to come back to this show anytime in
the future. Man, Six or seven minutes with you is
not enough.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Dude.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
Well, I'm glad you brought up what you did because
if you get the book, you'll you read a lot
more of me. Anytime you let me know, I'd be
glad to talk about it.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Will you'd be brilliant today? Okay, sir, all right, thank
you very much, please do not move.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Coming up next, it's Mark Harmon and Leon Carroll Jr. Hey,
thanks for coming back to my day of play completely
one hundred ten unedited conversations. Let's jump into that one
with Mark Harmon and Leon Carroll Jr.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Recording in progress rock On what's going on? You guys?
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Go ahead?
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Good morning? How are you doing? Mark and Leon?
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Good? How are you doing this morning?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Absolutely fantastic. I gotta tell you, I'm very grateful for
this book. And the reason why is because in nineteen
eighty nine I was always in the newsroom collecting AP
stories because I'm so addicted to news. This book right
here is something I wish I would have had, because
you go in detail. It's not a thirty second SoundBite.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
That's good to hear. I think it's intended to do that.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
It's certainly a story that opens up whatever it is
anybody thinks they know about Panama or about this time
period or operation just caused, or you know, someone like
Manuel Noriega. I certainly found myself knowing a lot more
than I thought I knew. And that's also part of
(09:19):
the reason to tell this story in the first place.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Am I wrong to think that back in the early
part of the nineteen eighties, Why was it that a
lot of people thought Manuel was basically a hero? Then
everything just kind of turned twisted and went a completely
different direction. Or was I just one of those crazy
Americans that didn't know the full story.
Speaker 6 (09:36):
Well, I think partially the full story. But I think
that he changed. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely,
and I think that's what happened with him. I mean
early on, when he was a young officer, we trained
him and intelligence methods and he became the director of
intelligence for the Panamanian Defense Force. And there were rumors
(09:59):
that he he was behind the killing of Tory Torrijos,
who was his predecessor, and that plane crash. Now I
don't know if that was ever verified, but I think
what happened was he became a part of the whole
intelligence apparatus. By that I mean the Americans and other
countries as well that were operating in Panama, and I
(10:20):
think he was on everyone's payroll. Actually I'm not even
sure if we weren't paying him at some point, but
I think the drugs really really became an issue in
Kawama was a transhipment point and he was making a
lot of money doing that, and he was also making
a lot of money from.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
The financial of money laundering. So I think that all
changed mid eighties, and we take that up with rick Yell.
Speaker 6 (10:49):
And we go from there, and I think that those
are the things that maybe Americans didn't know about, but
there was a change in how he operated.
Speaker 5 (10:59):
Is that part of what inspired you to write the story?
Speaker 6 (11:01):
To show the American people.
Speaker 5 (11:03):
Like more of the side of the story they probably
haven't heard of.
Speaker 6 (11:07):
No, Actually, you know, my reason for wanting this story
told was to tell the story of the agents that
actually worked and provided the information that led the President
to make the decision.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
To do this invasion. It had never been told.
Speaker 6 (11:26):
Most people, even within our agency, probably don't know this story,
the insides of this story, So my goal was to
do that. I arrived there shortly after, about a year
or so, and I was reading the reports and I
just thought, hey, this is something that you know, people
should really read about, you know, thirty forty years later,
(11:47):
because when I saw the President announcing the invasion, I
remembered what he said, and now I'm reading a report
that is saying.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Identical to what he read.
Speaker 6 (11:58):
So I knew that these eyes had done something that
really was behind the decision to go into Panama.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
The book we're talking about is Ghosts of Panama. Listeners
need to understand who Rick Yell was and to me,
this is almost like a Tom Clancy novel because he's
a regular civilian, but he's also an agent. That right there,
that's two different personalities.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Well not really. I think that we recruit people.
Speaker 6 (12:28):
When you say agent, it means different things in different
intelligence areas. Agents for CIA is actually what I think
you're thinking of. This individual was a government employee special
agent who recruited what we would call a confidential informant
and who had access to the inner workings of the
Noriega administration.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
So his job was to do what we all do.
Speaker 6 (12:53):
And that's to protect the assets of the Navy and
the Marine Corps.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
And because of the base.
Speaker 6 (12:58):
Down there, we were able to do that utilizing sources
like the one that we termed the old Man.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
In this particular story.
Speaker 6 (13:06):
So I think Yelle himself, who I know and knew
through training and definitely knew by reputation by the time
I got there. He was someone who was trained to
do criminal investigations in other words, murders and robber rees
and that nature.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
And now he's doing counterintelligence work.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
How locked in was President Bush because I mean when
he started making his move and things I learned in
the book that Rick's family is now affected.
Speaker 6 (13:33):
Well, I think they were affected only from the standpoint
of being in country at the time that was happening.
I couldn't answer the question about, you know, the president
that's you know, way was above our pay grade. But
we tried to weave that into how the information flowed
up to the national level, and I think he was
(13:53):
taking he was being briefed on what was going on
in terms of how the Panamanian Defense Force was being
so aggressive against American citizens and military personnel. And I
think that's what made the final decision when Lieutenant Robert
Poz was killed at a checkpoint in Panama.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Yeah, December sixteenth.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
And so I mean, and that's one of the stories
that I went back and found the SoundBite and it's
like it's like wow, and then but then I have
to go back to the pages and then I get
even more of the story, right right, So, now, what
what creates the mystery in this book? Because I mean
this this book, Ghost of Panama really does carry that
that vibe about it. There's also a mystery the old Man,
(14:35):
that's the secret source, the Old Man, and it's like oh, yeah,
we got we can go there.
Speaker 6 (14:41):
Yeah, yeah, and you know that he's only known as
the old Man, and that's for a reason. But he
was quite a character. I actually did two meets with
him myself, and he was just just an interesting individual.
But what he was doing was because he had loved
his country. He was no fan of what Noriega had become,
(15:03):
and he really wanted the country to survive as a
democracy and having a dictator running it just wasn't up
his alley. So he was a very willing participant. Money
was not a motivator for him. We always laughed because
all he wanted us to provide were sticky buns which
he could use to take into certain meetings. And actually,
(15:27):
as I said earlier, the Panamanians they do great bake goods,
but these were from the px ON base that we
would buy the commissary and they.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Went a long way. So I think the young.
Speaker 6 (15:40):
Man, personality wise, it's just a very unique individual. And
just the two times that I met with him, I
was impressed, and.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
I think he was. He was. He was actually you know,
checking us out as well.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
So I mean, first of all, for you to go
in there took a lot of courage, and then to
build up this relationship with the old man. I mean,
where does that training come from.
Speaker 6 (16:06):
Well, I would say for sure, I was a foreign
counter intelligence specialist, and our training was very extensive. I
mean I was in and out of schools all the time.
So it's something that you do through muscle memory. I mean,
you know, doing things like valance detection routes. We're all
trained to do those things, and we outline some of
(16:27):
that in the book that Rick and his compadres had
to deal with. But I think it just it's what
we do. I mean, that's what we sign up to
do the job for and it comes to second nature
after a while.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
My father loves books like this, and the reason why
he would sit there and tell me, you got to
read this. This is the wild West in your time.
You got to read this.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
I got to tell you.
Speaker 6 (16:50):
When I arrived there, I thought I had arrived in
the Wild West, because I was met by two.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
When we got into vehicle.
Speaker 6 (16:57):
Right from the airport to the base, they whipped out
us the sub machine guns, and I went, what the
hell did I get myself into?
Speaker 1 (17:06):
So then the Cuban military arrives.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
I did not know this, and to me, that made
it deeper than the storyline, and they were anti American.
Speaker 6 (17:17):
Correct, and I think that was one of the one
of the areas where we were kind of challenged, or
the od man's information was challenged, and I think but
it made sense. I mean, one of the things that
we did at that time because the Russians at that
time Soviet Union, they had shifts that would come into
(17:38):
the port about Boa, and that was one of our
areas of interest. And so to hear that, you know,
we had people from Cuba coming in that was that
was a little different, and that changed the game. I'm
sure up above, you know, up at the HEADSHD in DC.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Creating a book such as this with so much history involved,
I mean, first of all, I love to research. Research
is really my goal. But then to turn it into
a storyline, to turn it into a book that's coming
out here for the readers as well as the listeners.
What is that transition like for the two of you
as writers.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
Well, it's just it's not unlike the TV show.
Speaker 5 (18:16):
It's an opportunity to tell a story. And that's part
of what Leanna and I talked about from the beginning,
is an opportunity of a story to tell and is there.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
A way here ahead?
Speaker 5 (18:31):
And I don't think either were one of us ever
thought about being a writer or being a publisher and
writing a book.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
And that was initially.
Speaker 5 (18:41):
What this started as, which was a literary offer to say, hey,
are you interested in writing a book about the show?
I said no, but I would be interested about writing
about what this show was sold to me in the
first place, as, which was true stories about this agency
(19:02):
that no one knew anything about. They didn't know what
they did before the TV show. No one had ever
heard of it. If you googled NCIS back twenty years ago,
there was nothing. There was nothing on it, and there
was a reason for that. That's how these people do
their job and do it well because people don't know
(19:23):
that they're doing it. But now, if you were to
google and CIS, there would be pages and pages and
pages and pages of ninety nine point nine percent of
it would be about a TV show. So this is
a chance to work with the you know, I call
him the release, but Leon is as honest and as
(19:45):
real as I know, and he was my guy every
day on that show, a guy that I talked to
all the time and probably bothered more often than not
but I was always interested to know his take, what
he did, how he handled this or that, and just
prepared in the stuff you do as an actor. And
(20:06):
through that educationally I grew respect not only for this individual,
but this agency and the people who do this job.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
You guys, where can we go to get more information
besides the book? Because I mean, you did the story
about Hawaii and I know inside your hearts you're probably wondering, Okay,
so what's the next big mystery?
Speaker 1 (20:31):
There's plenty of them. There's plenty there are. Is there
a website that you guys have come up with?
Speaker 6 (20:38):
No, that's a good question. I don't know that we
would want to do that, but we've never been asked.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Actually, please come back to this show anytime in the future.
The door is always going to be open for you.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Be brilliant today, you guys all righty, thank
Speaker 3 (20:55):
You so much.
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