#185 - The Psychedelic Secret of Freemasonry w/ PD Newman

PD Newman is a father, researcher, Rosicrusian, Scottish Rite Freemason & author of Alchemically Stoned : The Psychedelic Secret of Freemasonry & his newest book Angels in Vermillion.

Episode Transcript

(00:02):
Welcome to Ascension of the Chessman,diving into the esoteric, occult, spiritual,
and conspiratorial aspects of life, focusedon solutions to the problems we face
in our everyday lives. Let usascend above all differences. Let us be
the light in darkness, a breathof fresh air to those who can hardly

(00:23):
breathe, and together awaken into greatness. This is Ascension of the Chessman with
your host Andre Mitti. Ready,welcome to the Ascension of the Chessman podcast.
I am your host, Andre Mitti. Today's guest is a father researcher,

(00:44):
Rosicrucian, Scottish wipe, freemason andauthor of Alchemically Stone, The Psychedelic
Secret of Freemasonry and his newest book, Angels and Vermilion. Ladies and Gentlemen,
hobbitson Fairies. Give a warm welcometo p D Newman. Thank you,
thank you, glad to be here, pleasure to have your brother.
But yeah, man, I usuallykicked my show off with this first question

(01:07):
for every guest, So PD,for those who aren't familiar, can you
explain what it is that you do? And I guess what woke you up
to realize and maybe there's more tothis life than you originally taught or thought.
Well. In terms of what Ido, I'm a researcher, but
primarily what I'm interested in researching isanything that really concerns the experience of the

(01:38):
transcendent. So that could be psychedelics, that could be ritual, ceremonial,
magic, yoga, meditation. That'swhere where my interest is. And I
got into those domains of research throughthe use of psych cadelics, through through

(02:02):
largely mushrooms and you know, alittle bit of Hoffman's Baby, and you
know, eventually, back when Ifirst started doing this, d m T
was kind of the holy Grail ofhallucinogens. You couldn't no one knew where
to find it, and so itwas. It was a long time before

(02:24):
I actually encountered d m T inayahuasca, But eventually those as well,
and the experiences that I had withthose are really what made me start,
you know, questioning the way Ithought about the world and the kind of
the consensus reality under which I wasbrought up to operate. Right completely,

(02:53):
brother, I can relate to thatheavy. Yeah, I guess, Like,
who are some of your first influences, like getting into you know,
playing medicine and you know, becauseyou're not really given a roadmap when you
take this leave of faith into thislike unknown world, if you will.
Mm hm. The mckinner brothers werea big deal for me too, you

(03:19):
know, they they both brought adegree of intellectuality to it that you know,
is kind of missing from just generalthe hippie culture that surrounds these substances.
John C. Lily was a bigdeal. Is his approach is mainly

(03:47):
the way he would use these thingsin conjunction with for example, his his
float tank. You know, thatwas kind of really what got me thinking
in terms of not just using thesubstance is but using them in a specific
way to really maximize on what's possible. Tim Leary, you know, he
gets a bad rap, but hisbooks, especially his books on the eight

(04:14):
brain model the eighth circuit model,were a big deal and in terms of
magic and in the ritual use ofthem. The first person to really confirm
that suspicion for me, that thatthey these substances are valid within the context
of ceremonial magic was Alistair Crowley becausehe was always very open about his use

(04:42):
of you know, pod and cannabisand and he was discussing them do what
ayahuasca even right? Oh, Idon't know about that. He could have
I know it was. It wasaround one of the men behind what's called
the Fulconelly affair. Fulconelly as oneof the last alchemists, and now he's

(05:03):
a he's a fictitious person created bythese other guys. But one of them,
his name is Alexander Ruhierre. Hewrote a paper on on ayahuasca.
And this was, you know,back in the early early twentieth century.

(05:24):
You know, the Crowley was aroundat the time, so it's very possible
that had he read that paper,you know, he he could have encountered
it. Who wrote that paper,you said, Alexander Ruhier R O U
h I E R okay, I'mnot familiar with them. Huh. He
also wrote a book on peyote,because Wasson was around that period too,

(05:49):
wasn't he a little bit later?Wasson comes in in the fifties and sixties,
and Crowley I think died in fortyseven, gotcha. But he was
a fascinating character. He was involvedin a little known secret society of the
time. But his real contribution topsychedelic studies. Was he was the first

(06:16):
person to figure out how to extractthe alkaloids out of payote and was selling
these two different payote tinctures which weretwo very different molecules present within it.
And he was the first to kindof figure that out and make it available
to other mystics who were interested indisploy and exploring visionary compounds. That's incredible.

(06:46):
Yeah, I'll never forget man.Like I was going through a period
where I was listening to all ManlyPall's greatest lectures and there was I think
it was this one on the Illuminati, and towards the end he's going into
Caculiostro and the Egyptian rights, andI'm just sitting there thinking, man,

(07:06):
like, wow, is he describingmy ayahuasca experience? Like, as I've
listened to it, I've just hadall these insights boor in and that's where
it hit be mad and I startedto like make some connections there and then
I found your work. And that'swhat really struck me about you, man,
was You're a rare gem, Likethere's not many of you out there

(07:28):
who are making these connections, man, and bravo to you. For being
the first to set sail on this. You know, well, thank you.
I just what I do is Iwrite the books that I wish I
could have found when I started,these these little journeys that result in the
books. So you know, Ifeel your pain. There's there's so little

(07:50):
out there in these in these areas. Now one good one and who another
one who was a big influence onme is Carl ap Ruck. He co
authored Rode to a Lusis with Hoffmanand Wasson. But he's always been really
good about tying in different mystical trendsthat are connected to the use of these

(08:16):
substances, and particularly in ancient Greece. But he brought a really if it's
ironic to say this, but hebrought a really sober kind of element to
this this type of research. Yeah, the fact you say that, you

(08:39):
know what makes me think because whenyou get into the occult realm and even
masonry, like I feel like there'sthis emphasis on being sober minded and you
know, almost like this this biblicalframe of it of you need to walk
purely. But yet there's association withplant medicine as drugs rather than medicine or

(09:03):
like sacred sacraments, and where doyou feel like that beard off or is
that a greater mystery in and ofitself. Well, I think masonry is
concern with temperance. Isn't tainted bythe concept of temperance that we received from

(09:24):
the teetotalers and the temperance movement,which was just don't do anything, stay
sober. At the time when thiswas introduced into freemasonry, which was around
seventeen twenty ish, there really wasbeyond alcohol. There was no concept really

(09:46):
of drugs. You know, thedrugs existed, of course, but they
weren't thought of in the same termsas alcohol. And beyond the say opium,
which opium, you know, laudanumwas a problem, but it was
that that would really be the limit. Back then, I wopium an alcohol,

(10:11):
these other substances, they wouldn't havelooked at them in terms of of
drugs. They would have thought aboutthem as in the terms that say Ezekiel
was thinking of his experiences with thevisions of the Caribbean or Saint John and

(10:31):
the revelation. These men would haveunderstood that their experiences with these substances in
those terms, not as hallucinations,you know, which is a very later
kind of psychiatric thing brought to theway these substances are viewed. They wouldn't

(10:56):
have saw them as hallucinations. Theywould have very much been enraptured with the
divine. And that's how they talkabout, right, the experience in the
in the early literature. It's notbeen recognized for what it is for a
long time. But I think that'sjust because the caliber of person or the

(11:18):
types of people, the demographic that'sattracted to freemasonry tend to not have a
background in psychedelic experience, so therewas no one really looking at the problem
through that lens, you know,very well put man. I would also

(11:39):
add too, I think we needto keep in mind like the shift of
healthcare and like the medical community fromlike this homeopathic some would say a lot
of superstition to this like chemical basemodel that came in the early nineteen hundreds

(12:01):
with the Flexner Report and all that, and just like this massive shift in
medical studies, And yeah, Ithink that can't be ignored. Like I'm
super passionate about cannabis and the wholehistory surrounding that, and like most people
don't know, like cannabis was inthe US pharmacopeia up until you know,

(12:22):
like the mid forties I think,and very much of penatia. Yeah,
all sorts of applications for it.And there's a famous Resicrucian named Pascal Beverly
Randolph who was the major importer ofhashish in to the US at the time
that he was alive, and similarto Ruhire, he had discovered two specific

(12:48):
compounds within cannabis that he had figuredout how to extract and was marketing those.
And we don't None of them surviveso that they're we can't test it,
you know. But the suspicion ishe was probably tuned into the THHC
CBD distinction long before anybody was.I was thinking like that, it's crazy,

(13:16):
it's crazy to father that. Soyeah, I just wanted to give
you an opportunity just for the laymanout there, laywoman like uh, just
the significance of the sprig of vocaciain masonry itself, specifically the York right,
I believe it's what the master Masondegree where it's signified, but also

(13:41):
in the myth of Hiram Abiff andthe role at plays in that. You
know, I've I've visited cemeteries thathave whole sections of Masonic tombstones that have
the sprig of vocasia on all thetombstones. And that was right around the
time I was connecting those dots.So yeah, if you want to open
up a bit about that, sure, it's impossible to discuss the role of

(14:07):
acacia in freemasonry without first saying alittle bit about its role in ancient Egypt.
It was already a sacred plant wayback when an ancient Egypt, and
it was associated specifically with the deityOsiris, who is the god of the

(14:31):
underworld and of rebirth. And Osiriswas encased in an acacia tree. And
so what that they're literally saying isthat the god is in the tree,
right. Wow. And so whenwhen a masonry when Hiram Abiff, who

(14:56):
is a figure who was the grandarchitect of Solomon's Temple, and he's murdered
by three fellow crafts who want toknow the secrets of a master mason so
that he can make they can makea master's wages, which is more than
a fellow craft's wages. But hewon't give them that secret. He's he's

(15:18):
too honorable, and they end upmurdering him. And when he's murdered,
he's placed under a sprig of acacia, and of course the within acacia,
within most species that are active,the compound is found within the root bark,
so he's placed in the roots ofthis. So it naturally goes back

(15:43):
to this Osirian myth. Now,the first alchemist to emerge and talk about
alchemy was a man named Zosimosa Panopolis, and we can't really talk about its
use in masonry also without mentioning itsrole in alchemy, because that's what fed
into the Masonic structure, into therituals, and why they wanted to put

(16:10):
Acasha in there. In Zosimo's hetells that the prima materia, which in
alchemy, the prima materia, isthe first matter, the substance that you
have to have in order to getthe philosopher's stone. It's produced from the

(16:30):
prima materia R. And the bigmystery in alchemy is what is the prima
materia And he spells it out toone of his students, a woman named
theos Sabia, and his book mushafAsuvar, which means a book of pictures,
and this is one of the earliestalchemical manuscripts that exist, and in

(16:52):
it he tells her plainly that theprima materia is Akasha. Well, the
first Masonic text to make its wayinto Europe was around nine hundred AD,
and Zosimos was around three four hundredAD. Wow. The text that makes

(17:15):
it into Europe is called the Turbophilisporum. And in this text you have all
of these different philosophers arguing about whatthe prima materia is. There's Parmenides is
there, Empedocles is there, Plato'sthere, Aristotle's there, and then you
have Moses there, which seems outof place until you consider the fact that

(17:37):
he made the arc of the Covenantout of Acacia. He built the tabernacle
out of Acacia. And Moses stepsin in the Turbophilisa Forum and he says
that I'll tell you exactly what thepremia materia is. It's Acacia. So
in these earliest texts we have itclearly, them clearly saying that to get

(18:00):
the Philosopher's stone, you first haveto get your hands on Acacia. And
this tradition eventually feeds into the alchemistEdward Kelly who was the scrier for John
D and John D was the advisorfor Queen Elizabeth and John D. His

(18:22):
goal was to see and talk toangels, but he was never able to
do this, and so he hiresEdward Kelly, who claims to be able
to do it, and they startholding these kind of seance rituals where they're
trying to contact angels, and Kellyis very successful in this right off the
bat, and these interactions, thesetransmissions from these angels produces what we now

(18:48):
know is Enoki and magic, oneof the most potent systems of magic ever
developed. And Kelly, You,he gets to where he doesn't want to
do this anymore, and he finallyreveals to D that the reason he sought
him out in the first place wasbecause he was in possession of this red

(19:11):
powder that had been rifled from thegrave of Saint Oh, it's escape on
me, what's his name, SaintDunstan. And along with that red powder
was a manuscript, the Book ofDunstan, and it was written in characters
that he didn't understand. And Dwas also interested in finding treasure, and

(19:37):
that's one of the things he's constantlyasking the angels about his treasure. Well,
Kelly uses this against him and hesays, you know, and I
need you to translate this book becauseit'll tell us where the Danes have hidden
these treasures. We can go findthem. When really he believed that the
book would tell him how to makemore of this red powder. And this

(20:00):
powder is very likely d MT extractedfrom Acasia that he inherited from this out
that if whether he took it fromthe grave or got it some other way,
he is the receiver of this lineageof alchemical transmission of this using the
Acasia as the prima materia. Wow. And so he needs him to translate

(20:23):
this book for him so he canmake more of it. But d can't
translate it, and D's archive eventuallygoes into the hands of an antiquarian from
Lichfield named Elias Ashmole, who wasalso one of the founders of the Royal
Society. And he was one ofthe earliest speculative Freemasons, And by that

(20:47):
I mean in freemasonry. It beganas an operative guild where theyre their members
are actually building churches, cathedrals andthings. Well, then all of a
sudden in the eighteenth century, theystart in early excuse me, the seventeenth
century, they start initiating men whoaren't builders, they're not operative, and

(21:08):
they they're called speculative masons. AndAshmoll is one of the earliest of these
speculative masons. Gotcha, well,he's also interested in alchemy. He published
two texts on alchemy, the secondof which was wildly popular at the time,
and he inherits d'se archives and startsworking with this Anochian system of magic.

(21:33):
But he is unable to get itto work. Just like D.
He can't see the angels and it'sjust not happening for him. And he
finally comes to the conclusion that well, it must be that red powder.
That the red powder must be whyKelly was able to see these and D

(21:56):
wasn't right, and so he realizeshe's got to get his hands on this
powder. Well. He brings theproblem to Robert Boyle, the first chemist
and the president of the Royal Society, and breaks down the whole issue with
the Enochian system and this red powder. And Boyle, being the scientific mind

(22:18):
that he was, he says,well, if it's a physical substance and
it's causing these visionary results, thenit must be a drug. We must
be talking about some kind of adrug. And at this point he writes
what's called Boil's to do list,which is on display at the Royal Society
on their website. You can readit there. But it's full of drugs,

(22:40):
all of these different drugs he wantsto acquire. That he wants to
get, Cannabis, he wants toget, he says, the fungus that's
mentioned by the French author, probablyreferring to rebelais. But he wants magic
mushrooms, anything that will cause visionary, magical kind of results. Well,

(23:00):
the way he finally comes to settleon Acacia as the solution is in their
archives they had the papers of analchemist named Samuel Hartlib and around him as
a circle of alchemists known as theHeartlib Circle. And in this he very
plainly says that the premia materia isacacia, and from it you can produce

(23:25):
the Philosopher's stone, which is actuallya tiny crystal. You know. He
spells the whole thing out in thosepapers. And it's at this point that
a man from the Royal Society,who is also the research assistant to Sir
Isaac Newton becomes elected to be thethird Grand Master of the Premier Grand Lodge

(23:48):
in London, and as soon ashe becomes grand Master, he introduces that
acasha into the Master Mason ritual.And it's fairly that they were using it,
not just using it as a symbol. Today is Mason's We obviously don't
use it like that. It showsup as a symbol that represents resurrection,

(24:11):
rebirth, you know, But it'sclear in those early days they were using
it. Now at some point thatuse went underground, and the degrees,
the public degrees are like we experienceI shouldn't say public, but the degrees
everyone's encounter encountering that we'd encountered today. That becomes the popular model, and

(24:34):
the use of the acacia itself thendoesn't reappear until Cagliostro hits the scene.
And Cagliostro is an Italian mystic thatencountered a book in the collection of this
bookseller. I think his name wasGeorge Costan, and this book was about

(24:59):
egyp masonry allegedly. Now what thatbook probably was was the Krapta Rapoa,
written by a man named Friedrich vonKoppen, and in this yep, that's
it. Well, if you lookin the seventh degree, there is a
something they drink called oimelas, butit doesn't describe what that oimelas is,

(25:21):
but they're consuming something that seems tobe to be visionary. And Cagliostro probably
encountered this, and this is probablywhat influenced him to create his Egyptian write
a Freemasonry. And this is wherethis was what made it click for me
what the acacia was doing in freemasonry, because he very clearly, just like

(25:44):
heart lived before him, says thathe has the candidate drink this red liqueur,
and while he's drinking it, hetells him that what you were drinking
is acacia, nothing other than theprima materia. And he said, and
this is the same acacia that youwere given in the third degree of regular

(26:08):
masonry, you know. And that'sreally kind of where it goes cold.
You know. Where did the acasiago after this? We see it pop
up in Russia with a man namedMelissino piod Or Ivanovitch Melino, who is
the greatest Russian artillery man of histime. He created a rite of freemasonry

(26:30):
that like the Kraterripoa has seven degrees, and in the seventh and final degree
they use akasha, and he saysthe same thing that acasia is the prima
materia. Right after that, wedon't get any more hints of what happened
to it until the Theosophical Society.And most people don't think about drugs in

(26:53):
the Theosophical Society, but John PatrickDevini has made the point that there were
two Theosophical societies. The one wasthe first one founded that was specifically about
about doing practical magical work and experiencingthese things firsthand. And so when they
got together to do this, todo this practical work, the vice president

(27:21):
of the society was a man namedGeorge Felt, and Felt was a chemist,
and he told everyone that he hadfound this substance that if you burned
it, it would cause you tobe able to see the elementals directly.
So they all the Thesophical Society memberscome together and he's going to demonstrate this

(27:41):
for everyone, and it causes anabsolute kind of panic, a freak out
everybody that see I mean, youknow. Olcott writes about it in his
diary Leaves. He says that theysaw beings that were that were as terrifying
as anything out of Francis Barrett's TheMagus and what He's got in there are

(28:04):
like goetic demons, right right,But that's what they saw, and this
freaked everyone out so much that Blavotskyat this point reforms the Theosophical Society to
be strictly theoretical and only to research, not to actually do these rituals.

(28:25):
And in the early letters there's specificdiscussions among the members that what the first
Theosophical Society was doing was trying tobring back Cagliostro's methods and teaching. So
while they don't say that the kashathat they burned, they burned some substance
that caused them to see spiritual beings, and in their own words, they

(28:52):
related what they were doing to Cagliostro's. So that's really the big picture,
you know, and how it getsinto freemasonry and where it goes after it's
wild. Yeah, And like,I think it's obvious that Blovotsky wrote about
Hashish and her careus with that,and uh, you know, it makes

(29:15):
me think of I pointed this outmany times in my show. But you
know, in that verse in Genesiswhere it says, in the land of
Pineal, Jacob met God face toface, and the later studies on how
d MT is produced in the Pinealand you know what that all represents.
And when he lays his head onthe stone, right, he sees the

(29:37):
latter reaching to Heaven with angels ascendingand descending alone. It's all right there,
completely agree. Uh, let's seewhat else I wanted to hit on
here. Yeah, so how aboutI think we kind of touched on this.

(29:59):
But what did the tabernacle represent toyou? Was this like a fumigation
tent? And like what the burningbush represented? Do you think this is
another reference to the acacia, asin Moses used the acacia to build a
tabernacle? Or well, you've gotto remember that Moses was raised by the

(30:23):
Egyptian priesthood basically right, and hewas well aware of their knowledge of acacia.
And I'll tell you why I suspectthis. When he takes his people
and leaves Egypt with them, theygo and create what I call a renegade

(30:48):
Egyptian priesthood. The early Hebrew priesthoodis an attempt to not necessarily replicate what
they were doing, but they incorporatedmany of the laments. So in Egypt,
the use of acacia in this psychedelicformat wasn't extended to everyone. It

(31:11):
was the knowledge of the priests,something you had to be initiated into,
right well, but the people stillknew about Osiris obviously, and Osiris one
form of his worship is they wouldtake an acacia box that was carried on

(31:32):
poles that were covered in gold,and they would carry the god around in
these parades through the city. Andinside this box were red cakes that represented
the body of Osiris. Wow,we know this from budgets books on ancient

(31:56):
Egypt, and it's in a numberof other places, but I think it's
the most accessible for your listeners.But it's there. So there are these
red cakes inside that represent the bodyof Osiris. Well, when Moses creates
the Arc of the Covenant, whichis a box made of acacia carried on
poles that are covered in gold,he's doing the same thing. And what's

(32:21):
carried around inside of it Mana,this miraculous bread that appears right among other
things, but Mana, I thinkis the most important. And then they
create the tabernacle in the wilderness tohouse this Arc of the Covenant, which
itself was made from acacia, whichgives you an interesting picture because now you've

(32:45):
got a cube within a cube thatis like a Tesseract kind of out there
in the wilderness. But before youknow this happens. Moses's first real experience
is that burning bush encounters the burningbush. Well Benny Shannon, who was
the he was a professor of psychologyat Hebrew University in Israel. He wrote

(33:09):
a paper called Biblical Enthegens, aspeculative hypothesis, and he speculates that acasha
could have been used by the ancientIsraelites. What he doesn't hit on is
the fact that the Hebrew term forburning bush what's in the in the Hebrew.

(33:34):
In the text, it says labasena labor that doesn't necessarily mean burning,
and then sena literally means acacia.So it's a glowing acacia that he
sees God in, just like Osiriswas in the acacia, right wow.

(34:01):
And when he climbs mount Sinai,well, he goes he sees the fire
on the mountain, right Well,Sinai. If you look at any dictionary
of Ancient Hebrew, Sinai etymologically isdirectly related to Senna. Senna means akasha,

(34:22):
and Sinai comes from Senna, soit means acacia. Also, so
the fire on the mountain on Sinaiis the same as the glow on the
acacias. It's the same symbol repeatedat different levels. And when Moses comes

(34:44):
down from the mountain, he issaid to have had horns. Now,
the word used for horns can alsomean to glow, to show with light,
just like the tree showed with light. But akasha, the word itself,
means thorned. This is this iswhy Diascorides named it akasha, because

(35:05):
he was naming it after its mostdefining characteristic. It's akakia, which is
the thorns. And the thorns arethe most visible thing about these trees when
you see them. That they havedifferent types of thorns, but they are
some of them are can get upto twelve inches long, you know,
huge thorns, right. And sowhen he comes down and he has horns,

(35:30):
my interpretation is that he really hasthorns, and he's he's showing himself
as being consubstantial with the object ofsacrifice, with the tree itself. He's
declaring himself the priest of this mystery. When he comes down. Now,

(35:50):
when he does make it down,what does he see but his people worshiping
a golden calf. The golden calfalready has precedent in Egypt. It was
called the APIs bull, and itwas a form of Osiris worshiped in Memphis.
I think, so what they hadcreated was the APIs bull. And

(36:15):
remember Osiris, just like the Arkof the Covenant, he's associated with solar
things because the sun goes into theunderworld. Acacia is sacred to the sun.
Gold is sacred to the sun,just like we saw it the Ark
of the Covenant. Well, whenMoses gets down there and sees this,
every time I tell this spiel here, people always are shocked because they don't

(36:40):
remember this in the Bible. ButI promise it's in there. You can
go check it. He has them. He takes the golden calf, the
APIs bull, grinds it into apowder, mixes it with water, and
makes them all drink it. That'sright now. It's like he's saying,

(37:01):
you don't worship it's stupid, youeat it, you know. And so
this whole act is directly related tothe myth of Osiris and the way you
prepare DMT from Acacia. After Osiriswas encased in this tree, it was
chopped up into planks and thrown intothe nile. Well, when you prepare

(37:24):
DMT, you chop up the rootbark and put it in a liquid menstrum.
Wow. Well, once you putit in that menstrum, it pulls
the DMT out of the plant matter. And once you filter the plant matter
out, it's left suspended. It'slost in that liquid. Well, when

(37:45):
Osirius, his body parts are allrecovered from the nile, except his phallus,
which they can't find. It's lostin the water. That's the generative
property. The power of the acaciais now lost. And after this,
this is when Isis makes him anew fallas out of a k show,
which she then copulates with and conceivesHorace, who avenges Osyrus's death and get

(38:10):
the rest of that story. Butwhen he makes them, when he mixes
that bull with the water, he'sdoing the same thing that we've seen with
Osyrus in the nile, and thenhe makes them drink it. Wow.
So the arc of the Covenant,the whole Moses legend is directly reflective of

(38:36):
this same mystery, which is whyMoses is the one who comes forward in
the turbophyllisiform and says, I'll tellyou exactly what the parameteria is. Makes
total sense, though, Yes,you know, maybe think I have this
whole hypothesis on like the terms holyshit and holy cow like that actually where

(39:00):
that actually stabs shrouds, Like,yeah, it makes me think of how
mushrooms grow from cowshit. But maybeBill Hicks made a Bill Hicks made a
joke about that once. He said, Heaven isn't a cows ass. That's
hilarious. Yeah he was. Hewas so great. Wow. Uh so

(39:21):
Okay, As far as like theancient use in Christianity, I mean we
kind of went into that a littlebit, But like what about John Allegro's
work, do you give much credenceto that or do you think he was
missing missing the point? Allegro wasa smart guy, you know, so

(39:42):
I think it's rash to just dismisswhat he's saying out right. But the
problem with Allegro isn't Allegro so muchas us. There aren't many people who
can read what he's saying because he'srelating it all to ancient languages and phonetic

(40:04):
conjunctions, and there aren't enough peoplethat even know what he's talking about in
that book. You know, it'sit's so complicated, and you really have
to know these ancient languages to evenbegin to critique what he's saying. So

(40:24):
Allegros, you know, difficult.Now with Christ, it's easier because we
can directly relate Christ to the Osirismyth. And Christ he's he's wearing a
crown of thorns. Well, rememberacacia means thorn, right, I was

(40:45):
earlier, and there are a numberof Christian cultures, Christianized cultures that believe
that the arc was made out ofacacia. And there's something Pike talks about
a number of points and his moralsand dogs, that's right. Yeah.
And so just like Osiris is trappedin the tree, Christ is nailed to

(41:07):
the tree and his side is pierced, and he produces blood and water,
which I think is an allusion tothe two solutions that you need to extract
it and what's called the premium endstechnique, how you make acacia, make
DMT from acacia. But Christ wasalso dismembered symbolically. The only miracle of

(41:36):
Christ that's in all four of theGospels is the feeding of the multitude.
And the author of this text,which I believe it's John, specifically calls
this miracle a simon, which meansa sign and an ancient Greek language.
That's like saying it's a symbol,it means something else. It's an allegory,

(42:05):
if you will, preparable, asJesus would have said. And so
he's feeding them the bread and fishes. Well, the two fishes have always
been an astro this symbol for Pisces, astrological symbol for Pisces, and it
was in Pisces that he was conceived. If you so let's say you,

(42:35):
if we were to count nine monthsbackward from Christmas, guess what we land
on Easter. Christmas is exactly ninemonths after Easter, which has always been
associated with fertility rites in the firstplace. So his crucifixion is very much
a rebirth when he comes out ofthat tomb, when the stone is rolled

(42:59):
away, right, But that meansthat at Easter, at that time we're
in the sign of Pisces. SoPisces is when Christ was conceived, when
he was brought into the world,even though he wasn't born at that time,
he was conceived at that time,So he is symbolically those fishes that's

(43:21):
able to feed the multitude. Andthe five loaves of bread. Well,
and you know, Jesus is Jewish, so he would have been familiar with
Jewish religious practices. And the fiveloaves of bread are sacrifice that are set
aside for the High. Well,he's the high priest now as the Messiah,

(43:45):
and these five loaves are sacrificed,sacrificial. Well, Christ is sacrificed,
right, and so these five loavesrepresent him as that sacrifice, and
he's feeding the multitude. Well,this is directly relatable to another god who,
just like Osiris, was dismembered,and that's Dionysus. And there's a

(44:08):
famous Neoplatonist named Olympiodorus who talks abouthow Dionysus represents going from the One from
God. How we go from theone to the many to all of these
people that are everywhere, and weall tie back to the one. How

(44:30):
do we get from the one tothe many? Well, he says that
it's explained in the myth of Dionysus. Well, Dionysus means God tree or
God in the tree or God ofthe tree. It's same exact star thing
we're talking about, and he's dismembered, ripped to pieces by the Titans,

(44:51):
and all that remains is his heart, and that heart is consumed by Samile,
who then gives birth to him again, which is he's called the twice
born. Now, where it wasof Cyrus's phallus, it's Dionysus's heart.
But it's the same symbol, thesame meaning, right, So they use
this to explain how or Olympiodorus usedthis to explain how we go from the

(45:16):
one to the many. Dionysus wasone God who's then dismembered, and each
of his different parts become different humans. We're those parts. Well, there
are at least six or seven versesin the New Testament where it says that
that we are the members of theChurch, and Christ is the head.

(45:37):
So when for Christ to dismember himselfsymbolically in the form of these five loaves
and two fishes, he's aligning himselfwith exactly what Olympiodorus is liigning Dionysus's dismemberment
with. So it's right there inthe Christian legend. Also, oh yeah,

(46:01):
it's all the same story by Boshtree, And yeah, what have
you pulled up on the mysteries ofEleusis? I know, uh, I
forget the author's named Brian Moro RescueMirror, Escue Rescue. I wrote the
Immortality Key. I know people havedifferent opinions on him and his book,

(46:24):
But what have you pulled up onthe Eleusinian rights? It's hard to know
what they were using. We certainlyknow that opium likely played a role.
We see the poppy pods repeatedly,but those puppy pods are often held in
conjunction with cereal grains like barley.And the big argument that you know it

(46:52):
had. There are problems with it, but I think it's a solid argument,
and I think it's the best onethat's been put forth to this point.
But and it was the the argumentput forth by Ruck, Wasson and
Hoffmann. And the Road to eleusiswhere they say that the barley from the

(47:13):
Raran plane was ceremonial ceremonially harvested andthe ergot separated from it, and that
ergot was used to create what's calledthe Kukion potion, and the Kookion is
the central mystery of what's happening ateleusis uh. It's what makes the person

(47:37):
drinking it experience what they've been taughtmythologically prior to that firsthand, which is
basically the immortality of the soul,the continuity of consciousness independent of a mortal
body. An LSD ergod is thesource of LSD. Granted, straight ergot

(47:58):
isn't LSD. But but I don'tknow what that experience is like, because
I've never eaten ergot. But LSDitself certainly induces experiences like that. And
for anyone who's used an opiate inconjunction with LSD, you would think it
would bring you down some, butit doesn't. It actually intensifies the effect

(48:22):
rather seriously. So their depiction ofthe goddess holding the poppies along with the
cereal grains may be connected to themmixing these substances. But in the Homeric
Hymn to Demeter, where the recipefor kokion is given, it doesn't say

(48:43):
anything about opium. It says pennyroyal mint leaves, water and barley groats,
and the barley would have been thesource for the ergot. So if
they were using the opium in conjunctionwith this, it could have been burned
on sensors and breathes instead of beingdrunk with the kikion. And there's plenty
of precedent for opium being burned inand around that time, and it continues

(49:07):
on into Western ceremonial magic where thereare a number of rituals where you are
to include opium and either an ointment, an incense, or a potion.
You know, it's very very commonin magical mystical literature, right, yeah,
man, before we get too faroff, you know, just what

(49:30):
you were saying about the parables andallegory behind the Christian mysteries, and I
listened to your appearance on a greatpodcast you did, and I just had
to have you go into it alittle bit, just defining bah Met and
the ties to the argonauts pursuit ofthe Golden Fleece. Just what bappha Met

(49:54):
represents all aquorically and like how there'sbeen so much fear and misunderstanding and almost
like paranoia and hysteria surrounding it.So if you could just give a brief
consensus of batha Met, well,Baphamet. We first get that word from

(50:15):
the the Interrogation of the Knights Templar, and it's immediately construed as though Bafhamet
is a god that they're worshiping.It's not a god. It's a ritual.
It's an initiatory ritual, right,And this particular ritual is described in

(50:37):
the word itself. Batha met Bathhametis a conjunction of two Greek words bathe
and metisse well bathe number one.It's the word that Zosimos uses to describe
the tincture that contains the Philosopher's stone, and it means to plunge, and

(51:01):
it's the root of the word baptized, because you're plunged into water right now.
The way it is also most wasthe reason he used it was because
he was using it for a tincture. And to tincture something is to color
something, to dye something a differentcolor, which is exactly how acacia was
used in the ancient world. TheMagdalene area is specifically associated with dyes and

(51:30):
using acacia to produce a red dye, and it still used this way today
to dye leathers red as Akasha doesthis. So it means baptism, a
tincture or a liquid subsense, itcontains the Philosopher's stone. These are what's

(51:52):
implied by Bathe and Matisse is theshe's the mother of Minerva. Minerva is
the goddess of wisdom. Well,she's the mother of wisdom, and her
specific type of wisdom. Matisa's wisdomis cunning wisdom, which is trickery and

(52:13):
it involves things like magic and persuasiverhetoric, things like that that would be
cunning. And so what they're sayingis Baphamet is a baptism of cunning wisdom,
a tincture of cunning wisdom. Wow. And this in the in the

(52:43):
when they're being questioned about what Baphametis, the templars say that Bathhamet was
a head. And they did finda head in their possession, and it
was labeled it was catalog head putfifty eight M, head fifty eight M,

(53:04):
implying there were a bunch of otherads, you know. But they
said that it was a head.Well, what it actually was was a
skull cup that they're drinking this tincturefrom, right, and this this skull
cup. The most obvious place you'llsee it is in Buddhism, where they'll

(53:30):
drink out of a capala they callit, and it's a the cap of
a skull used to drink amrita,and it was also used to drink so
halma. We know this because thelegend of Perseus and Medusa. Who remember

(53:52):
Medusa, she's also called called she'sa gorgon, part of one of the
gorgons. Perseus slaves Medusa by cuttingoff her head. Well, he then,
according to Greek legend, uses herhead as a cup to teach the
halma right, which is the MiddleEastern version of soma, which Soma itself

(54:16):
was a drug that was also worshipedas a god and it was drunk ceremonially
by the Vedic religious group. Andhe uses this skull cup to teach the
halma right to the Medean priesthood tothe Persian who the magi, the same

(54:37):
three magi that followed a star toChrist's birth, and he teaches them the
halma ritual. And fascinating when youlook at Minerva, Matissa's daughter, she
wears what's called an aegis. Anaegis she just means goat's skin. So

(55:01):
she keeps this goat skin shawl onwith the brooch that is the gorgon head.
So the same head used to teachthe helm rite is used to hold
her shawl on. And this iswhere we get the goat symbolism in the
Baphomet figure. Why he's represented asa half man, half goat being is

(55:28):
because of this connection with wisdom,transcendental wisdom, right and makes sense.
We see it also in her medicliterature. It's in Zosimos and the visions
of Zosimos. There's a big what'scalled a crater or a crater, a
big bowl that was used to mixwine with other drugs, and ancient Greece,

(55:52):
they baptize themselves in this this bigbowl. Well, we see the
same thing in the Corpus her Medicum, where it says that God has sent
down this crowter this cup and filledit with mind. Remember it's a baptism
of wisdom, and he encourages mento baptize themselves in this cup's baptism,

(56:15):
which is mind itself, you know. So this is what the what the
templars were doing is a very oldancient ritual that they were doing within the
context of Christianity, and that's whatreally was their downfall. That's why the

(56:37):
pope and the king felt they neededto eradicate them. It wasn't to acquire
their rituals, but it was toget rid of the holy grail, which
is always associated with the templars.That grail is that cup, and they're
there. If they're doing it withinthe context of Christianity, well guess what

(56:59):
they're going to expose those same elementswe spoke about earlier that are hidden within
the Christian mythos, within the allegories. You remember, I mean he says,
you know, take this cup fromme God, you know, and
even when we get down to theLast Supper, the mystical meal that he

(57:22):
has with the disciples, well,the two things he consumes, blood,
bread and wine are specifically associated withblood, with the blood the wine with
Dionysus, the god of wine,and with Demeter, the goddess of grains

(57:42):
and bread, which again are centralto the mysteries that are using these substances
for transcendental experiences. Wow, youknow I've given DMT the nickname Demitri the
Beater. That's funny, that's perfect. Yeah, we we we call it

(58:04):
Demeter. That's wild. Yeah.Yeah. So I guess our modern day
Mason's open to these ideas. Uh, is there a lot of pushback?
What is what has it been likeas you've started to open up and you
know, maybe do lectures within thelodge sphere, I speak all over the

(58:27):
place. When I started doing thisand speaking openly about it, the reception
was not very good, immediately encounteredbit all and in the state of Colorado,

(58:49):
which I thought, if any statewas going to be open to what
I was saying, it would bethe one that at the time had legalized
cannabis, you know, right,right, mushrooms, I believe, elder,
But at the time it was,you know, just cannabis. Right.
This was, you know, overten years ago, and I still
get some pushback in resistance, whichI think is natural. But any anybody

(59:15):
who sits and listens to the lectureand can see the evidence firsthand, they're
immediately open to it. They changetheir whole tune changes because they realize you
can't argue with history. So arewe going to be big boys and accept

(59:37):
our history and embrace where we camefrom, even if we're not going back
there? You know, are webig enough to talk about it, why
we would do such a thing,or are we going to be in denial
and just reject everything that is clearlylaid out in this delineation of how the

(59:58):
Acacia got into free masonry, andmasonry attracts men who, you know,
it's a right of passage into maturemanhood, into deep masculinity. I like
to say a term I get fromworse for brother Robert Davis. And so

(01:00:20):
the type of men that freemasonry reattracts, even if initially they would be opposed
to it. They are also thetypes of men who tend to admit when
they're wrong and say, you know, wow, this is really interesting.
I've never heard of this, AndI'm always surprised by the guys who come

(01:00:40):
up to me afterwards and say thingslike, you know, where do I
get that? You know? Andjust you know, yeah, I just
never would have guessed. But tobe fair, most of the guys that
ask me things like that grew upin the sixties and probably really firsthand memories

(01:01:01):
of of what these things can doand and really how glorious they are can
be. But but but more andmore, as it as I do this,
people are really starting to accept,and not just Masons, even within

(01:01:23):
the broader historical community, scientific community. People are are starting to get what
I'm what I'm saying and why it'simportant totally, man. I think just
look around in society and the waythings are going, and you know,

(01:01:43):
I think it's important to mention too, like how, you know, we
just have this void of the initiationrights that used to exist, and you
know, lodges like freemasonry kind offill that void. And to know that
in these ancient and ciation rights thatwas a part of it was having this
death and rebirth experience, which Ithink is represented in the rituals of Freemasonry.

(01:02:07):
And when I started to understand whatthose rituals represent, I started to
look back on my own experiences withplaint medicine. I'm like, there's a
lot of you know, a lotof parallels here, and uh, I
think, you know, the workthat you've done has truly shown that on
such a deep level, and I'mgrateful for people like you out there.

(01:02:28):
You know, Chris Bennet's another onewho's written you know, I've had him
on shout out to Chris, anduh, you know, it's it's just
fascinating to me, like how howit's all coming back into the fold now
and it's almost like we're remembering ourpast to bring these things into society once
again and to be respected not frownedupon, and you know taboo subjects.

(01:02:52):
You know, I do lift parttime, and I gave a couple of
ladies two separates rides to Catholic churchand I had one of your podcasts playing
while they're in the car, anduh, you know, just to like
plant those seeds and people, Yeah, especially heading the church. You know,
it's been good for you. Yeah. Yeah. And I just saw

(01:03:15):
here here locally where I live inLincoln, Nebraska, which is a very
very conservative state, we have amushroom debate here at a local Christian church
in my city of Lincoln tomorrow nightthat I plan to go to. Wow,
you going to broadcast that? Yeah, I definitely should. Yeah,
I hope they're filming it. Butyeah, that just came to my attention

(01:03:39):
this last week. And I'm like, man, like, just when you
think like it's not in your communityor the word isn't spreading, like it's
getting out and you're starting to seeit more and more every day. I
mean, the ketamine clinics popping upeverywhere, you know, the decriminalization campaigns,
I mean, it's all come tothe fold. And you know,

(01:04:01):
I never would have guessed either,you know, yeah, me neither.
Back in the day, I neverwould have guessed that we would be seeing
this kind of you know, openacceptance. My thinking has always been that
that psychedelics are are sacred, andthey will maintain that sanctity by any means

(01:04:24):
possible. So if there isn't somethingin place in the culture that sets it
apart and keeps it sacred, andby that, I don't mean keeping where
people can't use it, I meanjust keeping it where they use it within
a proper context. Right, Ifthat's not in place, then they will

(01:04:45):
maintain their sanctity another way. AndI've always imagined that's why they were really
illegal, the existential reason for thembeing illegal. Right, So when I
started seeing them be decriminalized, youknow, over the past few years,
gradually becoming to criminalized and legalized,it's made me wonder, what are the
implications of that, you know,what, what are going to be the

(01:05:09):
consequences of that? Because I don'tknow about you, but you start getting
into those high doses and you startedhaving you know, abduction scenarios and things
to me that I just I askedmyself, what, what, what's the
world going to look like when peoplestart reporting things like that from this plant

(01:05:31):
medicine, you know, it's ait's it's we're in a strange time for
sure, range time for sure.Brother. Yeah, I can't I can't
say enough. You know what whatwhat utmost respect and uh, you know
the proper intentions going into any oneof these experiences that one must hold and

(01:05:55):
not to take these things lightly.They aren't to be messing around with.
And I I think that's you knowwhat we had to learn is adolescents in
young kids. Man, It's likewe had to learn the hard way through
these things. And it's almost likethey have these defense mechanisms built built into
them to like teach us a lessonif we're played around with them. And

(01:06:15):
that's always been my experience. Ialways tell people that are new to this
kind of thing, you know,you'll you get three free free goes,
right, and then after that,if you're not doing the work and actually
integrating what it's showing you and makingthose changes, then it's difficult trip time.

(01:06:38):
You know, it will take youinto a place where you either will
regret having taken the stuff or lightof fighter on fire under your ass and
you'll get up and say, youknow what, I don't need to be
a dick every day. I don'tneed to pursue my life in a way
that's absolutely meaningless, you know,right. Yeah. I like to say,

(01:07:00):
you know you are the medicine.You know, the work's just begun
when you love ceremony and uh,you know you're carrying those those insights,
those major revelations, that that experiencewith you everywhere you go. So like
for me, like the hellish hellishof Hell's I've been through, you know,
the devils, I've faced, myown demons, I've overcome within those

(01:07:23):
experiences, like through the toughest challengesin life. Like I have those to
look back on and say, like, well, this is nothing like knowing
what I've overcame and some of thoseexperiences, like it's not life lessons.
I don't like the term bad tripbecause I think they're all sacred. But
I do believe that there's such athing as difficult experience. But even so,

(01:07:48):
in retrospect, those difficult experiences haveturned out to be the most meaningful
for me in the long run,and me too, you know, Uh,
there's there's definitely a place for itand and it teaches us to be
grateful for this miracle we're participating in, rather than being upset with things we

(01:08:13):
don't have if our life isn't goingthe way we wanted it to the fact
that we're here at all is miraculousAnd and those experiences really help you put
that into perspective that that just beinghere is amazing, you know, is
a blessing totally. Yeah, justencompassing all the gratitude that it gives you,

(01:08:40):
you know, to take with youafter the experience is invaluable. I
can't say enough about that. Iagree with you. Yeah, I just
wanted to ask you. I heardyou mentioned on one one other show just
like about how you know the tenantsof masonry being something about not willing fully

(01:09:05):
waking others up or like bringing themto all that you found through your search
through the mysteries, and like whatthat represents to you, and like why
that exists because I think you know, from an outsider's perspective, it's like,
oh, the Masons are gatekeepers,but like what do you say to

(01:09:26):
something like that, Well, theelement of secrecy. We get a lot
of flak for that as though,like you said, like we're gate keepers.
But the element of secrecy serves twoimportant functions. One of them is

(01:09:48):
symbolic, because it says that thesetruths that are communicated in freemasonry aren't really
communicated at all in the sense oflanguage, because they're ineffable. Nosis itself,
divine wisdom of things transcendent are incommunicable, no matter if someone doesn't have

(01:10:15):
a frame of reference for those experiences, like a psychedelic experience. If someone's
never had one, there's nothing youcan say that will tell them anything about
what it's like exactly. But ifsomeone has ears to hear as it said,
they'll know exactly what you mean whenyou say some of these phrases,

(01:10:36):
these statements. So on the onehand, what masonry is communicating to Mason's
is something incommunicable to anyone else.I couldn't tell you if I wanted to,
unless you've been through it now.On the other hand, the other

(01:10:59):
function serves is to preserve ignorance.And what I mean by that is knowledge
is not a divine right. Wehave to work for knowledge. If you
want knowledge, you have to workfor it. But we do have a
divine right to ignorance right. Wehave a right to not know. And

(01:11:26):
some of these truths, to justhand them to someone who hasn't asked for
them can potentially obliterate their worldview.You're pulling the rug out from under them,
like tend to way their free willright, And that's cruel. It's
cruel to force someone to wake up. And I hate to use language like

(01:11:50):
that, because I don't mean they'reasleep, but to open their eyes to
this other worldview that they have notasked for nor earned, is violent and
cruel. And it's not our placeto trespass in that way. And so

(01:12:11):
the secrecy preserves the rights of thosewho have no interest in changing their worldview
from that violent exposure to such asuch ideas. And I know to a
lot of people that sounds, youknow, trivial or funny, you know,

(01:12:34):
but it's it's very serious. AndI've made the mistake as a young
man, you know, multiple times, have seen people get upset, cry,
I've seen people literally go clinically madfor weeks at a time, you
know, because they just it's soat odds with the way we're taught to

(01:13:00):
view the world. So I thinkit's very important and it's something that will
always masonry will always be attacked forright because where secrecy exists is where people
will project. Yeah, their wildestfears will fit there because it's a big

(01:13:25):
void, it's a big question mark, so it'll hold anything that they grow
at it, and it will alwayswill always be kind of, you know,
attacked for our secrecy. But Ican tell you that there is in
terms of gatekeeping. There's nothing we'redoing as freemasons that you couldn't find in

(01:13:51):
Plato for example. I mean,but you know, and nobody was really
reading Plato today. If you're watchingthis, I bite you go read Plato
if you want to know some ofthese things and really pay attention to what
he's saying. It will blow yourmind. But we're not We're we're definitely

(01:14:13):
not gatekeepers. We do guard thewest gate, we say, but that's
to make sure that people do notenter the fraternity who are acting out of
idle curiosity. M beautifully said,brother, thank you for clearing that up.
By the way, I know that'sprobably put you on the spot to

(01:14:33):
ask us something. You can askanything, man, I'm an open book.
I appreciate you. Yeah, Ican't thank you enough. Brother.
I'd love to have you back andwe'll do a deeper dive into the new
book you got. Is that outyet already? Yeah, it came out
December fifth. It's called Theoregy andTheory and Practice the Mysteries of the Ascent

(01:14:56):
to the Divine, and it's lookingat the ritual application of of Plato and
the Neoplatonists and how they were affectingthe experience of soul assent basically vision inducing
visionary experiences through something called theogy.Beautiful. Well, I look forward to

(01:15:21):
that conversation. Man, you wereblowing my mind today. So honored to
finally speak with you. Brother.I can't say enough about the work you're
doing. And one more time,I just want to thank you for continuing
on and to continuing to put thisinformation out there for the layman that you

(01:15:42):
know are curious to learn and uh, you know are seeking the truth just
like we are. But yeah's apleasure. Thank you very much. Thank
you for having me well, definitely, thank you all for listening out there.
I hope you have a beautiful restof the week. I send you
all peace and love. Thank youfor listening. Peace,