August 18, 2025 • 40 mins
Jonathan Berman chats about his documentary "Commune" on its 20th anniversary, gaining the members' trust for filming, and the legacy the commune left behind!
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more
amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifhpodcastnetwork dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Hey, everybody, welcome back to the show. Got a great
one today. But before we get started, I gotta tell
you remind you again.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
September twenty six come out to Monday Night Garage in
the chandelier room for VHS Deathmatch. You're basically gonna come
and judge two crazy movies. And the two movies, now
I know, are Samurai Cop in Miami Connection. And if
you know anything about those movies, you know that they're crazy.
And the cool thing is we're not watching the whole movie,
neither one of them. We're watching the crazy clips from
(01:10):
both to see which one is more insane, and then
you get to vote. So it's just gonna be fun
and ridiculous. So remember September twenty sixth, stores are at
six point thirty.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Come out.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
I'll be there as a special guest and it's gonna
be a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
But switch into my guests. This week, we got a
great one.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Jonathan Berman's here to talk about his film Commune, which
is it's enjoying, it's twentieth anniversary. Right, that's right, twenty man,
twenty years already. So yeah, introduce yourself real quick. A
and then B, how does it feel to have a
twenty anniversary of a thing that you worked on so
(01:48):
long ago and so hard on.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (01:52):
Well, thanks, Chuck, thanks for having me and talking about
Commune today.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Well it feels good. It's a little like sending your
kid off to college, I.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Guess, you know, yeah, but I just.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
We were we were doing some tech work on the film.
Speaker 5 (02:09):
Uh so it could be on every streaming platform, not
just some, And in the process I was like, you know,
given what's happening in this country right now, I think
it's just a good time to put this back in
theaters and pull it from streamers for a while and
see what happens.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Yeah, Well, before we really really get into it, are
there any like, what are you are you watching anything
interesting these days? Especially in the documentary realm? Since it's
a documentary, is there any recent documentaries that you could
really recommend to people?
Speaker 4 (02:44):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (02:45):
Geez, yeah, Pee Wee Herman documentary. Yeah, I thought that
was exceptional.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Oh yeah, you know.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
What else, it's hard so much is happening in the summer,
there was a documentary that may have been less seen
that I thought was excellent, which was the documentary about
Kim's Video, which was a video store in New York
in the East Village. And it's a wild tale. Have
you seen that, Chuck?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Oh no, I haven't seen this one. This sounds great.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Oh, it's great. It's a wild story.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
They decide to sell off the archive of Kin's video
and it goes to this small town in Italy and it.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Just becomes this crazy story. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Oh well, okay, I'm definitely gonna write this one down.
That's great, especially since you know, there's been all so
much discourse about you know, there's been documentaries and stuff
about Blockbuster and just about all the old days of
renting stuff and seeing videos and whatever.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah, that's great. Yeah, that's really cool.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (03:55):
I tend to watch a variety of stuff, you know, documentary,
occasional TV series, you know.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Yeah, but.
Speaker 5 (04:07):
We have some great theaters where I am here in
New York, so I'd like to go to the theater.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (04:14):
It's more fun, especially when the when the makers are there,
you know.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Oh of course. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Yeah, It's like going to film festival and you get
the Q and A afterwards and you get to hear
their story and stuff exactly. Well, tell us all about
Commune and why is it getting the twenty year anniversary.
You said you wanted to get it out there and
you know, back into rotation again. But it seems it
(04:40):
seems I got to watch it last night, by the way,
and thanks for Sinnemon the screen and everything, but it
seemed like a like a very timely thing, especially as
you mentioned in the State of the World Today here.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
Well, and I think people are looking for alternatives to
the insanity out there.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
And I wouldn't even say left or right.
Speaker 5 (04:57):
I mean, I think understanding how to live in the
woods with a group of people, yeah, cuts across any
It's like it's like marriage, It cuts across any. I
think that super Maga and super lib tards like me
could could get together and we're talking about marriage or
living together in the woods.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Living together in the woods part yeah, like.
Speaker 5 (05:20):
Understanding how to be self sufficient, do it yourself, fix
your own cars. But most importantly maybe kind of navigating
the psycho spiritual, emotional terrain of being with a group
of people.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
As you see in the film, you.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Know, Yeah, and there's also definitely something about the spirit
of that, you know people there was the you know,
hippie movement the sixties, and it was so much opt
It felt like there's so much optimism.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
I guess back then I wasn't a live for this.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
But but then, you know, you you fast forward and
see where these people are and what they're doing then,
and comparing those two time periods, it is very interesting.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
The time periods between then and now.
Speaker 5 (06:08):
You mean, yeah, yeah, well, yeah, one thing that's happening
now is we're all me included, looking at our screens
a lot, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, And I think,
like they call it social media, I think they should
call it anti social media because it makes you like,
you know, it's real easy to fall into, like fomo.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
And all that kind of stuff. So back yeah, I
wasn't quite around there in that period.
Speaker 5 (06:32):
I'm like the last of the baby boomers, you could say,
but that world was rever bating as it continued to do,
but definitely through my childhood, like all those bands, and
I did get to see The Grateful Dead when I
was like fourteen or fifteen, oh well, when they still
were playing like seven thousand seat places for ten dollars,
you know, yeah, that.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
Was pretty amazing.
Speaker 5 (06:53):
So I come from that kind of you know, almost
to be a background. But I would say one thing
about the film Commune and the group that we focused
on the Black Bear Ranch, was that they weren't really
hippies exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.
Speaker 5 (07:09):
I think it's a big difference because when we think
of hippies, you know, we think of smoking.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Paw and dirty, dirty enclaves. This was more like, hmmm,
it was more like anarchists, you.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Know, yeah, for sure, it definitely.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
It definitely came across in the film that they just
they were just seeking an alternative. This wasn't yeah, this
wasn't directly cut. I mean it felt indirectly tied, I guess,
to the hippie movement. It just like oh yeah, absolutely yeah,
just like let's let's go do our own thing, you know,
and not worry about this anymore.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
Let's get out of the city. Right.
Speaker 5 (07:48):
People were also we're running from being and you know,
drafted into the Vietnam War. There's that, yeah, some people.
So you know, if you ever wondered why everybody back
then was named like Moonflower and oak and whatever. A
lot of times they didn't want. They didn't want, I mean,
you wanted to. It's one of the things I.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
Love about California, right America in general.
Speaker 5 (08:12):
Yeah, you can recreate, you can create your own identity.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
That's very true. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (08:18):
And it's not like you're in France or you know,
if you're in France and it has been and you
want to get your film made, it's like you get
it made because your cousin works for this department of whatever,
of of a media for the state.
Speaker 6 (08:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (08:34):
It's a lot more like that. Yeah, So you can
make your own luck here in your own world. So,
and particularly in California, and ultimately this idea of just
going back to the basics almost not exactly pre civilization, yeah,
but but a lot.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
More closer to the earth now.
Speaker 5 (08:58):
The only problem was that a lot of the people
who decided to go up to Black Bear were city people.
They had no idea how to live in the woods,
you know, way off the grid.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Yeah, there is a thing about that that, I mean
that's even happening now. You see all these people posts like,
oh to be living on a farm and doing this whatever,
It's like no this' it's.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Like a lot of work there's a lot of work.
It's like a lot of constant work to not die.
Speaker 5 (09:26):
Yeah, well, especially in the winter, you know, when you're
snowed in. Yeah, yeah, you know there were no phones.
You know, there were no phones period back then, no
cell phones. There there were landlines, but not up there
in the Klimath area where they were. And so really
you have to really get to know your neighbors. And
(09:47):
luckily some of the neighbors are super cool, like Hoss
you meet in the film, who's correct an indigenous a
person and he's like, yeah, I got to show these
these city people how to survive.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Yeah, it's it's funny to me, especially because I grew
up in a in a little farm town in South Georgia.
So you know, you see the you see people post
and whatever and like no, you still understand. But but
there is again, there's just something you know, especially if
you grew up in the city. I guess just like
maybe mystical or like oh there's there's cows and chickens
(10:24):
and peanuts and whatever.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Like it's so fun.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
But like most things, most things are are fun until
they turn into work and that's just how it goes.
But so tell me how you got involved with the
story in the first place, How did you find out?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
How'd you find out about these people?
Speaker 5 (10:41):
Again, this is like okay, so this is before any
films have been done about people living together, communes or
even cult right. So, and also before the whole food craze.
I remember going in and pitching to a production company
We're gonna do this thing called restaurant, okay, and we're
(11:01):
going to follow Verite style the happenings of a restaurant.
People are like, huh I meanwhile, that's like every fifth show, right, Yeah,
So what happened was was that I had an idea
to do a film about barbecue in the Carolinas, and yeah, right,
of course we're all comming in film start And I
(11:24):
had had a friend who was teaching at ECU Eastern
Carolina University, and my friend Adam's teaching there as well,
and I was like, oh my god, the whole barbecue
thing is wild, and it was going to be about
the food and then also just factory farming all that
good stuff. So I pitched it to someone who's a
philanthropist on documentaries and they're like, yeah, I'm not interested
(11:47):
in barbecue in the Carolina and yeah, now like there's
a million of probably twenty barbecue shows.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
Yeah. But he said, I said, what are you interested in?
And he said, well, I'm interested in stuff that's off
the grid, off the grid, off the grid.
Speaker 5 (12:05):
So I look at I looked it up on the
early Amazon and and found this book that a bunch
of people from.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
Black Bear wrote together, which is worth reading.
Speaker 5 (12:16):
It's called Freeland Free Love Tales from a Wilderness Commune.
A lot of people uh bristle at the free love thing,
and that is a little bit of a you know,
let's sell tickets.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
Kind of thing.
Speaker 5 (12:28):
There was, I mean there was you know, people were
trying to break through every kind of constraint, including monogamy,
especially especially the guys. And and so we read this
book and I love this book because everybody wrote a
few pages in it, and one person wrote that that
(12:51):
this is.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
Not a spot. So if you come up here to
Black Bear, because it's.
Speaker 5 (12:55):
You know, it was open kind of invitation, it's not now,
by the way, I've been asked to make that clear.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
If anyone besides they.
Speaker 5 (13:01):
Want to get the hell out of Atlanta or wherever
they are, New York City, you name it, you got
to write to them through their website, black Bear Ranch
dot org.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
I think, and it's like a quick paragraph. I don't
think it's a big deal.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
But they just want to know who's coming and if
it's a good fit before you show up. But yeah,
so if somebody was writing in there that like, look,
this is not a spot, don't bring your dog because
if you bring your dog, we might eat eat them.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Yeah, okay, right, And then.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
A few entries later into this, you know book that
was written as a group effort, somebody wrote, you know,
people are speciesists, and why are animals subjugated?
Speaker 4 (13:44):
Dogs shouldn't have to be on leashes and you know,
and I.
Speaker 5 (13:47):
Was like, okay, this is a great example of why
this is a good place, you know. And luckily they
were smart, interesting people, all of whom had a different
take on what they saw as their version of how
to live.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
And I mean, I can't think of anything more indicative
of that.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Then they all wrote the book together. It's like it
was a communal book.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
They all wrote a couple of pages or whatever, like,
you know, just really the spirit of the thing.
Speaker 5 (14:22):
Yeah, absolutely, I'm just looking I think it was I
think it was Don Monk Rude.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
He was somebody there, but it was you know, corraled
by someone.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I imagine it was probably way
longer before it got finished.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
But that's still really cool though.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
Yeah, Don Monk Rude who was on the on the
ranch for a while, and he was an author Okay,
credited as the author, but it's written by everyone stories
from black Bear.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Yeah, and I we also surprised to see Peter Coyote
show up there, that he was He was apparently a
member of this I had no idea.
Speaker 5 (15:04):
Yeah, Peter was like kind of their their cousin down
the road, yeah, further uh north, further south. Peter had
his own communal scene, but he considered these guys a
gaba and all these people were at black Bear, his
like brothers and sisters, and he was there. You know,
he came to black Bear for sure.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Yeah, that's that's really funny. But I also really liked
the whole the whole emotional blackmail angle where they they
you just it's always hard to raise money for anything,
but these but these people were just like going up
to rock musicians and saying, hey, give us money. Well,
(15:44):
I think the quote you're making money off our lifestyle
time you give back to us, and they just did it.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
Wow, some of them just did it.
Speaker 5 (15:54):
Yeah, the uh some did it. You know, like people
are off loath to give away their money, yes, for sure,
but some of them.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
Were up for it. You know.
Speaker 5 (16:05):
Their pitch is a good pitch, was, hey, you know,
we are the real thing and you guys are portraying
us in movies and in songs, and.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
Now it's time to pay up. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
And there was the story where I can't remember who
it was, but they set the they set the something
on fire, his fountain or something or he was going
to and he's like.
Speaker 5 (16:33):
Yeah, that's what fun scene in the movie. And it's
Michael t r who's a pretty famous herbalist if anyone's
into her biologies, has often been credited with.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Helping to popularize echinnation.
Speaker 5 (16:49):
But they were at James Coburn's house that yeah, and Coburn,
you know, it was just like you know people, it's
like it's like a lot of these film festival towns,
you know, they're like they like having them people around.
They don't necessarily want to pay up, you know.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
Yeah. So so he's.
Speaker 5 (17:15):
Like, well, he's like, oh cool, we have you met
our band of hippies, and here's the dining room wing.
And eventually he was like, well, well, you know what,
let's get a little action here, he says, I got
I gathered all the servants around and say get James,
and they got James and he lit an American flag
on fire in his fountain. That's right, that's the story.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
I mean, you know, as far as symbols and and imagery,
that's a that's a pretty striking one.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
Yeah, exactly right.
Speaker 5 (17:52):
And by the way, a little background inside super inside
background is that we lit that flag on fire and
shot out it in super A, in a fountain in
a public park. I guess the truth can come out
now in Los Angeles. Oh really, I was like, oh
my god, I.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
Hope we don't get it.
Speaker 5 (18:09):
I mean, I guess if we get arrested, it would
help popularize the movie. But there's got to be there's
got to be other ways the movie became popular. So
but you know, there's a whole other generation. So what
you get a lot what we're showing now in theaters.
So these theaters tend for these repertory, calendar, art house,
(18:29):
whatever you want to call it. Theaters tend to get
a bit of an older crowd, so you're getting like
these baby boomers are coming to that, but for here
and podcasts is more of.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
A younger medium.
Speaker 5 (18:38):
I skew young. I listen to a lot of podcasts.
I'll have to check out yours. I haven't had a
chance yet. And uh and uh. I think that it's
a good idea for the next gen to understand a
lot of the especially when you look at like, oh Jesus,
how are we ever going to afford a house now
that like corporations own the housing market and everything's double
(19:00):
I'm not going to be able to work for twenty
dollars an hour and ever buy a house the way
this is going, So we're gonna need jobs. We're going
to need better jobs. We're gonna maybe even need to
split a house with a group of people. So I
would love to see more people in the twenty something
to fifty to forty nine.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
Crowd check out the film.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
A lot of people have they just have their own
method of seeing things. And somebody did post it on YouTube, which,
on the one hand, you know, illegally, so on the
one hand, was flattering because it got tons of views.
On the other hand, it's depriving us of our livelihood,
you know. Yeah, yeah, we had like sixty thousand views twice.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
I think, oh, well, yeah, so maybe a lot of
younger people did see it that way.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Maybe maybe.
Speaker 5 (19:47):
But this new version looks so beautiful and it fits
the modern formats and the color looks great, and I
mean luckily color and formats. All that is like, yeah,
who cares but the store And I think this is
a good story.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
I looked upon a good story.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Here and that, Yeah, that is a great point about people,
so many people living together with the with the housing
market and everything. And I know of I know places
in Atlanta that there's a bunch of like especially like
actors and stuff that are you know, they're all poor
and trying to make their way into the industry and
they're all living together.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
Well that's right.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
It sort of like little mini communes all over the
place like this.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
Yeah, you reminded me of something.
Speaker 5 (20:27):
You know, when you make a film, got to be
bold talk to a lot of people. I called Dennis McNally,
who was the publicist for The Grateful Dad, and I
was like, well, the Dead had that communal house and
the hate Ashbury famous, like you know photo of Jerry
and the fun Steps and he's like.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
Oh that it's like they lived communally because they had
to just like what you're saying, and and.
Speaker 5 (20:49):
Well as soon as they everybody got money, they all
split and look got their own pads.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
So sometimes it's a necessity. But you know, it's like
in filmmaking, like a.
Speaker 5 (20:59):
Little pressure can achieve miraculous results.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Yeah. For sure.
Speaker 5 (21:06):
If you're making a film and it's like, oh, we'll
fund your film, but you can only take a month.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
To shoot it, which isn't bad.
Speaker 5 (21:13):
Actually, Okay, let's say two weeks and you have half
a million dollars and it has to be horror. Those
kind of pressures can cause breakthroughs. M Oh yeah, see
what I'm saying. So the pressure of the fiscal crisis
could cause breakthroughs for people.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Yeah. Yeah, hopefully there's any positive thing to come out
of it.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Yeah, right, yeah, So talk a little bit about filming.
We're talking about filmmaking. Talk about getting the interviews with people.
Did you have a lot of pushback and people were
maybe skeptical of you at first?
Speaker 5 (21:51):
Well, when we first went up there, absolutely there was
a crazy seed they're like, okay, we're doing a reunion.
You know, it's all anarchistic for sure, but you know,
people came and went from Black Bear Ranch, so they've
lived there for a few years, get what they needed
to know, and then move back to the city.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
And I think that's still happening.
Speaker 5 (22:10):
So they're like, we're having a reunion. Come to the
reunion and you can you can tell everybody what you're opportune.
We'll see what they say. So we went to this
reunion thing and we were surrounded in a circle, a
classic communal circle, and Christian and jere and I were
in the middle of the circle having to explain to
(22:31):
them that we're not like you're the media.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
You've come to like you've.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
Come to like get it wrong about us, because that
did happen a lot, right, Yeah, to be fair, like
these guys were in San Francisco before the hippie thing,
a lot of them. Yeah, okay, So so what happened
was was that people came from all over the country
(22:56):
to San Francisco for the Flower Power and you know,
you have fifteen year old people from Ohio come into
San Francisco with no money.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
They needed help.
Speaker 5 (23:07):
So Luckily the people like Peter Coyote and the Meme
Troop they called it the Mime Troop, Meme.
Speaker 4 (23:12):
Troop and the Diggers they were there to help, you know.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
So uh but my point on that is a long,
long prelude to say that there was also buses from
like tours going around see.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
The hippies and hey, Ashbury, get on the bus.
Speaker 5 (23:29):
And there were those Roger Corman films and it was
always like, you know, sort of exploitation.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Oh right, yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
So yeah, yeah for a community that's already trying to
get away from everything. But of course naturally people are curious.
Speaker 5 (23:47):
So yeah, so I looked out people were like, well,
you know, it was a classic blackbur situation. I was like, well,
it's not that you can't do it. There's no there's
no hierarchy there. It's all anarchistic in that everybody decides
and then they take it from there.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
But there's no like decrees or anything interesting.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
Yeah. So one thing that happened recently is somebody was.
Speaker 5 (24:12):
We're not that recently, but I'd say in the last
decade was people like, hey, you know what you guys,
I mean, we get it back then it was it
was what it was. But we want to decolonize Black
Bear because we're like white people living on indigenous land.
I think that's the basics of that of that thrust.
So there's always a different angle here, you know.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Yeah, oh yeah, Well after you broke through, was you know,
and convinced them that you weren't out to get them
that right? Was it a pretty good experience, you know,
interviewing and everything and filming.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
No, no major hiccups.
Speaker 5 (24:48):
No, it was great, great people, and you know, I
didn't want to make it like commercial for them or anything,
but a lot of the ideas I did agree with,
and where I personally wouldn't live on a commune, I
don't think I would.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
I liked a lot. You know. The film becomes almost
like a catalog.
Speaker 5 (25:08):
Of ideas of the counterculture sixties and seventies. So you
have ideas of you know, something really basic like.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Feminism, well right, yeah, you know.
Speaker 5 (25:20):
Ideas about yeah, about about that everything doesn't have to
be monogamous couples, although eventually people did couple off. I think,
ideas about sharing, ideas about self sufficiency, all kinds of
stuff you know, about medicine, about getting away from only
(25:44):
relying on Western medicine. By the way, I think master
medicine is amazing. But you know, there is something to
be said for the herbal traditions of indigenous people around
the world.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
There's a lot of wisdom.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
There, right, Yeah, So there was that.
Speaker 5 (26:00):
Whole thing reaching into native wisdom and practices, which you know.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
Often wound up becoming a little bit uncool.
Speaker 5 (26:11):
I could say, like like when a bunch of like
stone or hippies are doing a sweat lodge and they
don't know anything about the tradition.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (26:19):
I would have have Native or American Indian people speak
for themselves and stuff like that. But I think there
was some some backlash on that, understandably.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Oh I imagine like like white people doing yoga and
stuff and just not maybe not respecting what it, you know,
where it came from and whatever, that kind of thing.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
And that's funny.
Speaker 5 (26:40):
It reminds me of the time I did yoga and
there was an Indian couple there, and I guess they
were Indian American. I was like, oh, well, you guys,
did you do this in your village? Like our village
we grow up in New Jersey.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
We've never done yoga before in our lives. I'm not
sure how. You know, yoga is an interesting thing. I
do it, but I'm not sure how far that really
goes back.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah yeah, yeah, and I'm not sure.
Speaker 5 (27:05):
Okay, according to AI, which knows everything, it says over
five thousand years ago to ancient India.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Hmm okay, well thanks, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
That's pretty long.
Speaker 5 (27:15):
Yeah yeah, but again I consistently get stuff wrong.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
You know, it's just like, oh.
Speaker 5 (27:22):
Here's a great inn you can stay in, and then
I explore further and they're like, we're sorry, you're right
to call me out on that, Jonathan, that.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
In doesn't exist.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Yeah, that's I mean, yeah, the thing is definitely well,
I guess yeah.
Speaker 5 (27:41):
We could talk about AI for twinnas, but I guess
the point of all that is that yoga as a
cultural appropriation, that it is something I don't necessarily know about.
Speaker 4 (27:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Yeah, but but that is something to be said about
about the commune wanting to to get more in touch
with that kind of thing and hopefully maybe do it right,
or at least just investigate it and not just take
it for granted or something.
Speaker 5 (28:11):
Yeah, that's right and natural childbirth was a thing. No, right,
and again I would urge people to like not shoot
Western medicine. I think that's a big mistake. And I think, yeah,
this is another this is a two hour discussion, and
I'm not an expert in it, but I think, you know,
saying I'm not taking vaccines, which I've had friends.
Speaker 4 (28:31):
Is a mistake is personally, But I guess, do.
Speaker 5 (28:34):
Your own research, just check that your sources actually are real,
because there's so I mean, the one thing that was
different from then and now, one of many is that
there wasn't that much media. Now, every single day, the
amount of media that's produced by people is equal to
like the whole history of media before it, right, So
it's so crazy. So back then we had like people
(28:56):
talking to each other. But when I grew up of
the tail end of the baby boom, you know, early
seventies and all that, we had three channels on TV.
There was no cable, so there's a lot less media happening.
There was no texting obviously and all that, so there
were other ways to get your information. Now it's just
like AI and people in general just grab stuff. Like
(29:21):
my students at cal State will grab stuff I'm like, well,
what's your source. It's like Jimmy's blog. You know, I
don't know if that's the person who should be telling
us about the French New Wave. He might know a lot,
But I think what they call that peer reviewed studies
are good. Just because someone made it through the university
(29:44):
system to be fair doesn't mean in the arts at least,
doesn't mean they know all. But you know, know your
sources right in this case. So speaking of media, we
lucked out because you know, the people we interviewed them,
it was retrospective.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
They were talking.
Speaker 5 (30:00):
About their past as a young people in the early
twenties and stuff, living in the woods and trying to
create a new society. But we were seeing them when
they were older, so we lucked out. There was an
early version of video called portapac and there's a cool
documentary about that whole era. I'll find the name of it.
(30:21):
And it was like the first portable video. And some
guy was traveling around from commune to commune, almost.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
Like a telegram. So you would say hi to your
friends in Colorado on video.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Oh I see.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
Then he would bring it to the next town.
Speaker 5 (30:37):
So it was all this video and Elsa Marley was
one of the founders of Black Bear, was like, you
should go find this guy he has I think he
has a bunch of footage he shot and turned out
it was rotting away in a basement in Oregon, so
we were able to get it out from him. And God,
(30:57):
bless God, bless Elsa and those guys. It's for being
able to do that.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
That's great that my my my wife is an archivist.
And I've I've since come to know like how much
you just think you just think we have all all
of knowledge or whatever of knowledge, but a lot of
it is actually sitting in basements rotting away that wait,
you know, you just don't. We just don't know that
it's there to get, Like there's really important documents and
(31:26):
videos and all sorts of stuff that are just in
somebody's attic or something.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
Right, Oh, totally, and then history changes.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
You know.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
Yeah, we think history is one.
Speaker 5 (31:35):
Thing, but it turns out it's. Well, that was one
of the reasons to make the film, because yeah, there
was this whole idea of like flaky hippies and all that,
and certainly they were flaky hippies, right, but there was
also some.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
Other things happening.
Speaker 5 (31:49):
And also there were a lot of wins out of
that era of the sixties, So I think that's really
important to note that history is dynamic, it's always changing
depending upon the materials, and then also the uh, the viewers,
you know, like it's flexible.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Yeah, yeah, kind of like I can't remember who it
was in the film, became a lawyer and he said
something along the lines of like, this is my way
of fighting the system is you know, is by getting
into law and fighting it from within or something like that,
and which reminded me of the movie SLC Punk because
(32:29):
the dad and that says kind of the same thing
sort of, but and then I know that's right, the
main character ends up saying that at the end, like yeah,
it's it's you know, fight the system with the within whatever.
So I thought that was really interesting a way of
approaching that.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
Yeah, oh totally.
Speaker 5 (32:47):
I mean a lot of people get seduced by the.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
By the whole money thing.
Speaker 5 (32:54):
Yeah yeah, so they become lawyers and they're helping the trees,
and then the next thing, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah,
they're making eight hundred thousand or that's probably not even
the probably more than that.
Speaker 4 (33:10):
Whatever. A year. Yeah, and then.
Speaker 5 (33:12):
Helping the corporations tear down in the trees. That's not good.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
Yeah, that's and then the next generation comes up and
gets mad about it and tries it again. I guess
that's the that's the that's human history right there in
a nutshell.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Uh so that's cool.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
So where, well, where what is the plan for you
getting the film out?
Speaker 2 (33:36):
It's is it back out into festivals and stuff? Are you?
Are you sending it around?
Speaker 3 (33:41):
I mean obviously sending the podcast and stuff like that,
but getting the word out, Like, are there any special
events or anything for it?
Speaker 5 (33:49):
Yeah, there's a bunch of screenings happening, and many of
them have special events around them. We are showing in September.
We're doing a little tour.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
Shockinglyake, California is interested.
Speaker 5 (34:03):
In the film, and we'll have we'll have participants from
the Black Bear Range as well as the filmmakers, me
and my co producer there in We're playing Berkeley and Sebastopol,
which is above Marine, and right in Marin in San
ra Raphael, and then we're going to be screening in
(34:23):
Los Angeles at this amazing historic place called Philosophical Research.
Speaker 4 (34:30):
Society.
Speaker 5 (34:31):
I think it was, and it's in Los Phelis and
also in Ohai free screenings in Ohai, So I'll be
there for all those and they'll be in the Bay
Area at least they'll be black Bear people there, so
that's great.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's again like you said, it's
it's cool when those people are there and you know,
you see them on screen or whatever. But then you know,
you get to hear there are more stories and and
everything at these events, and it becomes it becomes, I
don't know, it becomes more than a film. It's just
all of a sudden, like, oh, this is real. Here's
those people. I just saw them.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
Yeah, that's right, that's right. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (35:10):
You know there was people who we filmed for the
movie who aren't in the film, just for various reasons,
like you can only have a certain it's already pretty
breezy and quick, so you know, maybe they'll show up
and give their start of the story.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
Yeah, I'm reminded of I can't remember the name of
the film, but there was at the Atlanta Film Festival
there was a film about a nonverbal autistic child who
she she ended up coming to the screening and she
only got one question because it was it was a
lot of noise and everything.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
It was too much.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
But they said something like, you know, what's it like
to be in the film and see all these people
who love you? And she just said I am a
superstar in like the entire room erupted and we were
just like yeah, which I guess in hindsight wasn't great
for her, but we all just loved it so much
that she was. She just said that, So, I mean, like,
(36:12):
where else can you get that experience like that? You know,
you can't watch it at HOMEI get that.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
It was amazing.
Speaker 5 (36:22):
Yeah, the actual listings of all the screenings, we have
a few more in New York and they keep growing
and people keep asking for it.
Speaker 4 (36:30):
So there is a desire for for this stuff.
Speaker 5 (36:34):
And uh it's communethmovie dot com.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Okay, yeah, and that's I guess that's where everybody at
home can see it if they find links for it
and everything on all the major streaming stuff.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
Well for now, in theaters because we want to get
people experience. Yeah, yeah, together.
Speaker 5 (36:55):
We just showed a did a screening in upstate New
York and Beacon, beautiful little town, and.
Speaker 4 (37:02):
We all talked for like an hour after the Q.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
And a oh nice, that's great.
Speaker 4 (37:07):
Yeah, it's a good sign for me.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, especially for a
film like this, which is all about community, right right,
you know, have little mini communities at the screenings.
Speaker 4 (37:19):
There you go, you meet your new housemates. Right.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Well, that's cool.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
I really appreciate you coming on talking about it. Where
can we find information about you? Do you have any
websites for yourself or Instagrams or any of that stuff.
Speaker 5 (37:33):
Well, I was telling you before, I teach at cal
State San Marco's a really cool school in North s Diego,
California State University, very big system of schools. Our school
is awesome, and there you can find me there through
cal State San Marcos and some stuff about my previous work.
I have some other films and I have a new
one that I'm doing as we speak, a little slightly
(37:56):
delayed for various reasons, particularly in putting this film out there.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
Yeah yeah, yeah, imagine full time job for sure a bit.
Yeah yeah, well yeah, I again, I appreciate you coming on.
It sounds like everybody's got it. If you anywhere near
these screenings, go go check them out. It's going to
be a lot of fun.
Speaker 5 (38:18):
Or if you want to executive produce the documentary, we
always you know you need resources.
Speaker 4 (38:23):
I mean you can you can use air for a while,
but ultimately, you.
Speaker 5 (38:29):
Know, you really want to have an editor who's working
with you, who gets paid and paid for archival footage.
So my new film is super political and it's a
third part of the California trilogy. The second part was
called Calling All Earthlings that was about an early UFO
contact ee and that's quite a story too. That's pretty
(38:49):
available on every platform. And then this third one is
called Gondola And if anyone's interested, yeah, actually, Open Signal
Studios is my website for all the projects.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Oh yeah, there you go. Cool. Yeah, well cool, everybody
go check that out. And Jonathan thinks again, it was
great talking to you.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
Hey, great talking to you man.
Speaker 6 (39:21):
Thanks for listening to Atlanta Film Hit subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
or wherever you find your podcasts. The show is produced
by Trinkle Aggression Productions and Zombie Cat Productions. Your host
is Chuck Thomas. Editing is by Joshua Goolkey. The soundtrack
is by Michael Breezy, Keys Jones I am your humble announcer,
(39:45):
Rob Scheimer. Remember you are your own biggest frans. So
go out, make your projects, and don't let anyone stop you.
You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more
amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifhpodcastnetwork dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Hey, everybody, welcome back to the show. Got a great
one today. But before we get started, I gotta tell
you remind you again.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
September twenty six come out to Monday Night Garage in
the chandelier room for VHS Deathmatch. You're basically gonna come
and judge two crazy movies. And the two movies, now
I know, are Samurai Cop in Miami Connection. And if
you know anything about those movies, you know that they're crazy.
And the cool thing is we're not watching the whole movie,
neither one of them. We're watching the crazy clips from
(01:10):
both to see which one is more insane, and then
you get to vote. So it's just gonna be fun
and ridiculous. So remember September twenty sixth, stores are at
six point thirty.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Come out.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
I'll be there as a special guest and it's gonna
be a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
But switch into my guests. This week, we got a
great one.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Jonathan Berman's here to talk about his film Commune, which
is it's enjoying, it's twentieth anniversary. Right, that's right, twenty man,
twenty years already. So yeah, introduce yourself real quick. A
and then B, how does it feel to have a
twenty anniversary of a thing that you worked on so
(01:48):
long ago and so hard on.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (01:52):
Well, thanks, Chuck, thanks for having me and talking about
Commune today.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Well it feels good. It's a little like sending your
kid off to college, I.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Guess, you know, yeah, but I just.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
We were we were doing some tech work on the film.
Speaker 5 (02:09):
Uh so it could be on every streaming platform, not
just some, And in the process I was like, you know,
given what's happening in this country right now, I think
it's just a good time to put this back in
theaters and pull it from streamers for a while and
see what happens.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Yeah, Well, before we really really get into it, are
there any like, what are you are you watching anything
interesting these days? Especially in the documentary realm? Since it's
a documentary, is there any recent documentaries that you could
really recommend to people?
Speaker 4 (02:44):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (02:45):
Geez, yeah, Pee Wee Herman documentary. Yeah, I thought that
was exceptional.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Oh yeah, you know.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
What else, it's hard so much is happening in the summer,
there was a documentary that may have been less seen
that I thought was excellent, which was the documentary about
Kim's Video, which was a video store in New York
in the East Village. And it's a wild tale. Have
you seen that, Chuck?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Oh no, I haven't seen this one. This sounds great.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Oh, it's great. It's a wild story.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
They decide to sell off the archive of Kin's video
and it goes to this small town in Italy and it.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Just becomes this crazy story. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Oh well, okay, I'm definitely gonna write this one down.
That's great, especially since you know, there's been all so
much discourse about you know, there's been documentaries and stuff
about Blockbuster and just about all the old days of
renting stuff and seeing videos and whatever.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah, that's great. Yeah, that's really cool.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (03:55):
I tend to watch a variety of stuff, you know, documentary,
occasional TV series, you know.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Yeah, but.
Speaker 5 (04:07):
We have some great theaters where I am here in
New York, so I'd like to go to the theater.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (04:14):
It's more fun, especially when the when the makers are there,
you know.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Oh of course. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Yeah, It's like going to film festival and you get
the Q and A afterwards and you get to hear
their story and stuff exactly. Well, tell us all about
Commune and why is it getting the twenty year anniversary.
You said you wanted to get it out there and
you know, back into rotation again. But it seems it
(04:40):
seems I got to watch it last night, by the way,
and thanks for Sinnemon the screen and everything, but it
seemed like a like a very timely thing, especially as
you mentioned in the State of the World Today here.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
Well, and I think people are looking for alternatives to
the insanity out there.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
And I wouldn't even say left or right.
Speaker 5 (04:57):
I mean, I think understanding how to live in the
woods with a group of people, yeah, cuts across any
It's like it's like marriage, It cuts across any. I
think that super Maga and super lib tards like me
could could get together and we're talking about marriage or
living together in the woods.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Living together in the woods part yeah, like.
Speaker 5 (05:20):
Understanding how to be self sufficient, do it yourself, fix
your own cars. But most importantly maybe kind of navigating
the psycho spiritual, emotional terrain of being with a group
of people.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
As you see in the film, you.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Know, Yeah, and there's also definitely something about the spirit
of that, you know people there was the you know,
hippie movement the sixties, and it was so much opt
It felt like there's so much optimism.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
I guess back then I wasn't a live for this.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
But but then, you know, you you fast forward and
see where these people are and what they're doing then,
and comparing those two time periods, it is very interesting.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
The time periods between then and now.
Speaker 5 (06:08):
You mean, yeah, yeah, well, yeah, one thing that's happening
now is we're all me included, looking at our screens
a lot, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, And I think,
like they call it social media, I think they should
call it anti social media because it makes you like,
you know, it's real easy to fall into, like fomo.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
And all that kind of stuff. So back yeah, I
wasn't quite around there in that period.
Speaker 5 (06:32):
I'm like the last of the baby boomers, you could say,
but that world was rever bating as it continued to do,
but definitely through my childhood, like all those bands, and
I did get to see The Grateful Dead when I
was like fourteen or fifteen, oh well, when they still
were playing like seven thousand seat places for ten dollars,
you know, yeah, that.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
Was pretty amazing.
Speaker 5 (06:53):
So I come from that kind of you know, almost
to be a background. But I would say one thing
about the film Commune and the group that we focused
on the Black Bear Ranch, was that they weren't really
hippies exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.
Speaker 5 (07:09):
I think it's a big difference because when we think
of hippies, you know, we think of smoking.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Paw and dirty, dirty enclaves. This was more like, hmmm,
it was more like anarchists, you.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Know, yeah, for sure, it definitely.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
It definitely came across in the film that they just
they were just seeking an alternative. This wasn't yeah, this
wasn't directly cut. I mean it felt indirectly tied, I guess,
to the hippie movement. It just like oh yeah, absolutely yeah,
just like let's let's go do our own thing, you know,
and not worry about this anymore.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
Let's get out of the city. Right.
Speaker 5 (07:48):
People were also we're running from being and you know,
drafted into the Vietnam War. There's that, yeah, some people.
So you know, if you ever wondered why everybody back
then was named like Moonflower and oak and whatever. A
lot of times they didn't want. They didn't want, I mean,
you wanted to. It's one of the things I.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
Love about California, right America in general.
Speaker 5 (08:12):
Yeah, you can recreate, you can create your own identity.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
That's very true. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (08:18):
And it's not like you're in France or you know,
if you're in France and it has been and you
want to get your film made, it's like you get
it made because your cousin works for this department of whatever,
of of a media for the state.
Speaker 6 (08:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (08:34):
It's a lot more like that. Yeah, So you can
make your own luck here in your own world. So,
and particularly in California, and ultimately this idea of just
going back to the basics almost not exactly pre civilization, yeah,
but but a lot.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
More closer to the earth now.
Speaker 5 (08:58):
The only problem was that a lot of the people
who decided to go up to Black Bear were city people.
They had no idea how to live in the woods,
you know, way off the grid.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Yeah, there is a thing about that that, I mean
that's even happening now. You see all these people posts like,
oh to be living on a farm and doing this whatever,
It's like no this' it's.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Like a lot of work there's a lot of work.
It's like a lot of constant work to not die.
Speaker 5 (09:26):
Yeah, well, especially in the winter, you know, when you're
snowed in. Yeah, yeah, you know there were no phones.
You know, there were no phones period back then, no
cell phones. There there were landlines, but not up there
in the Klimath area where they were. And so really
you have to really get to know your neighbors. And
(09:47):
luckily some of the neighbors are super cool, like Hoss
you meet in the film, who's correct an indigenous a
person and he's like, yeah, I got to show these
these city people how to survive.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Yeah, it's it's funny to me, especially because I grew
up in a in a little farm town in South Georgia.
So you know, you see the you see people post
and whatever and like no, you still understand. But but
there is again, there's just something you know, especially if
you grew up in the city. I guess just like
maybe mystical or like oh there's there's cows and chickens
(10:24):
and peanuts and whatever.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Like it's so fun.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
But like most things, most things are are fun until
they turn into work and that's just how it goes.
But so tell me how you got involved with the
story in the first place, How did you find out?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
How'd you find out about these people?
Speaker 5 (10:41):
Again, this is like okay, so this is before any
films have been done about people living together, communes or
even cult right. So, and also before the whole food craze.
I remember going in and pitching to a production company
We're gonna do this thing called restaurant, okay, and we're
(11:01):
going to follow Verite style the happenings of a restaurant.
People are like, huh I meanwhile, that's like every fifth show, right, Yeah,
So what happened was was that I had an idea
to do a film about barbecue in the Carolinas, and yeah, right,
of course we're all comming in film start And I
(11:24):
had had a friend who was teaching at ECU Eastern
Carolina University, and my friend Adam's teaching there as well,
and I was like, oh my god, the whole barbecue
thing is wild, and it was going to be about
the food and then also just factory farming all that
good stuff. So I pitched it to someone who's a
philanthropist on documentaries and they're like, yeah, I'm not interested
(11:47):
in barbecue in the Carolina and yeah, now like there's
a million of probably twenty barbecue shows.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
Yeah. But he said, I said, what are you interested in?
And he said, well, I'm interested in stuff that's off
the grid, off the grid, off the grid.
Speaker 5 (12:05):
So I look at I looked it up on the
early Amazon and and found this book that a bunch
of people from.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
Black Bear wrote together, which is worth reading.
Speaker 5 (12:16):
It's called Freeland Free Love Tales from a Wilderness Commune.
A lot of people uh bristle at the free love thing,
and that is a little bit of a you know,
let's sell tickets.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
Kind of thing.
Speaker 5 (12:28):
There was, I mean there was you know, people were
trying to break through every kind of constraint, including monogamy,
especially especially the guys. And and so we read this
book and I love this book because everybody wrote a
few pages in it, and one person wrote that that
(12:51):
this is.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
Not a spot. So if you come up here to
Black Bear, because it's.
Speaker 5 (12:55):
You know, it was open kind of invitation, it's not now,
by the way, I've been asked to make that clear.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
If anyone besides they.
Speaker 5 (13:01):
Want to get the hell out of Atlanta or wherever
they are, New York City, you name it, you got
to write to them through their website, black Bear Ranch
dot org.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
I think, and it's like a quick paragraph. I don't
think it's a big deal.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
But they just want to know who's coming and if
it's a good fit before you show up. But yeah,
so if somebody was writing in there that like, look,
this is not a spot, don't bring your dog because
if you bring your dog, we might eat eat them.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Yeah, okay, right, And then.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
A few entries later into this, you know book that
was written as a group effort, somebody wrote, you know,
people are speciesists, and why are animals subjugated?
Speaker 4 (13:44):
Dogs shouldn't have to be on leashes and you know,
and I.
Speaker 5 (13:47):
Was like, okay, this is a great example of why
this is a good place, you know. And luckily they
were smart, interesting people, all of whom had a different
take on what they saw as their version of how
to live.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
And I mean, I can't think of anything more indicative
of that.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Then they all wrote the book together. It's like it
was a communal book.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
They all wrote a couple of pages or whatever, like,
you know, just really the spirit of the thing.
Speaker 5 (14:22):
Yeah, absolutely, I'm just looking I think it was I
think it was Don Monk Rude.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
He was somebody there, but it was you know, corraled
by someone.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I imagine it was probably way
longer before it got finished.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
But that's still really cool though.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
Yeah, Don Monk Rude who was on the on the
ranch for a while, and he was an author Okay,
credited as the author, but it's written by everyone stories
from black Bear.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Yeah, and I we also surprised to see Peter Coyote
show up there, that he was He was apparently a
member of this I had no idea.
Speaker 5 (15:04):
Yeah, Peter was like kind of their their cousin down
the road, yeah, further uh north, further south. Peter had
his own communal scene, but he considered these guys a
gaba and all these people were at black Bear, his
like brothers and sisters, and he was there. You know,
he came to black Bear for sure.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Yeah, that's that's really funny. But I also really liked
the whole the whole emotional blackmail angle where they they
you just it's always hard to raise money for anything,
but these but these people were just like going up
to rock musicians and saying, hey, give us money. Well,
(15:44):
I think the quote you're making money off our lifestyle
time you give back to us, and they just did it.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
Wow, some of them just did it.
Speaker 5 (15:54):
Yeah, the uh some did it. You know, like people
are off loath to give away their money, yes, for sure,
but some of them.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
Were up for it. You know.
Speaker 5 (16:05):
Their pitch is a good pitch, was, hey, you know,
we are the real thing and you guys are portraying
us in movies and in songs, and.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
Now it's time to pay up. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
And there was the story where I can't remember who
it was, but they set the they set the something
on fire, his fountain or something or he was going
to and he's like.
Speaker 5 (16:33):
Yeah, that's what fun scene in the movie. And it's
Michael t r who's a pretty famous herbalist if anyone's
into her biologies, has often been credited with.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Helping to popularize echinnation.
Speaker 5 (16:49):
But they were at James Coburn's house that yeah, and Coburn,
you know, it was just like you know people, it's
like it's like a lot of these film festival towns,
you know, they're like they like having them people around.
They don't necessarily want to pay up, you know.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
Yeah. So so he's.
Speaker 5 (17:15):
Like, well, he's like, oh cool, we have you met
our band of hippies, and here's the dining room wing.
And eventually he was like, well, well, you know what,
let's get a little action here, he says, I got
I gathered all the servants around and say get James,
and they got James and he lit an American flag
on fire in his fountain. That's right, that's the story.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
I mean, you know, as far as symbols and and imagery,
that's a that's a pretty striking one.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
Yeah, exactly right.
Speaker 5 (17:52):
And by the way, a little background inside super inside
background is that we lit that flag on fire and
shot out it in super A, in a fountain in
a public park. I guess the truth can come out
now in Los Angeles. Oh really, I was like, oh
my god, I.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
Hope we don't get it.
Speaker 5 (18:09):
I mean, I guess if we get arrested, it would
help popularize the movie. But there's got to be there's
got to be other ways the movie became popular. So
but you know, there's a whole other generation. So what
you get a lot what we're showing now in theaters.
So these theaters tend for these repertory, calendar, art house,
(18:29):
whatever you want to call it. Theaters tend to get
a bit of an older crowd, so you're getting like
these baby boomers are coming to that, but for here
and podcasts is more of.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
A younger medium.
Speaker 5 (18:38):
I skew young. I listen to a lot of podcasts.
I'll have to check out yours. I haven't had a
chance yet. And uh and uh. I think that it's
a good idea for the next gen to understand a
lot of the especially when you look at like, oh Jesus,
how are we ever going to afford a house now
that like corporations own the housing market and everything's double
(19:00):
I'm not going to be able to work for twenty
dollars an hour and ever buy a house the way
this is going, So we're gonna need jobs. We're going
to need better jobs. We're gonna maybe even need to
split a house with a group of people. So I
would love to see more people in the twenty something
to fifty to forty nine.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
Crowd check out the film.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
A lot of people have they just have their own
method of seeing things. And somebody did post it on YouTube, which,
on the one hand, you know, illegally, so on the
one hand, was flattering because it got tons of views.
On the other hand, it's depriving us of our livelihood,
you know. Yeah, yeah, we had like sixty thousand views twice.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
I think, oh, well, yeah, so maybe a lot of
younger people did see it that way.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Maybe maybe.
Speaker 5 (19:47):
But this new version looks so beautiful and it fits
the modern formats and the color looks great, and I
mean luckily color and formats. All that is like, yeah,
who cares but the store And I think this is
a good story.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
I looked upon a good story.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Here and that, Yeah, that is a great point about people,
so many people living together with the with the housing
market and everything. And I know of I know places
in Atlanta that there's a bunch of like especially like
actors and stuff that are you know, they're all poor
and trying to make their way into the industry and
they're all living together.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
Well that's right.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
It sort of like little mini communes all over the
place like this.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
Yeah, you reminded me of something.
Speaker 5 (20:27):
You know, when you make a film, got to be
bold talk to a lot of people. I called Dennis McNally,
who was the publicist for The Grateful Dad, and I
was like, well, the Dead had that communal house and
the hate Ashbury famous, like you know photo of Jerry
and the fun Steps and he's like.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
Oh that it's like they lived communally because they had
to just like what you're saying, and and.
Speaker 5 (20:49):
Well as soon as they everybody got money, they all
split and look got their own pads.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
So sometimes it's a necessity. But you know, it's like
in filmmaking, like a.
Speaker 5 (20:59):
Little pressure can achieve miraculous results.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Yeah. For sure.
Speaker 5 (21:06):
If you're making a film and it's like, oh, we'll
fund your film, but you can only take a month.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
To shoot it, which isn't bad.
Speaker 5 (21:13):
Actually, Okay, let's say two weeks and you have half
a million dollars and it has to be horror. Those
kind of pressures can cause breakthroughs. M Oh yeah, see
what I'm saying. So the pressure of the fiscal crisis
could cause breakthroughs for people.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Yeah. Yeah, hopefully there's any positive thing to come out
of it.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Yeah, right, yeah, So talk a little bit about filming.
We're talking about filmmaking. Talk about getting the interviews with people.
Did you have a lot of pushback and people were
maybe skeptical of you at first?
Speaker 5 (21:51):
Well, when we first went up there, absolutely there was
a crazy seed they're like, okay, we're doing a reunion.
You know, it's all anarchistic for sure, but you know,
people came and went from Black Bear Ranch, so they've
lived there for a few years, get what they needed
to know, and then move back to the city.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
And I think that's still happening.
Speaker 5 (22:10):
So they're like, we're having a reunion. Come to the
reunion and you can you can tell everybody what you're opportune.
We'll see what they say. So we went to this
reunion thing and we were surrounded in a circle, a
classic communal circle, and Christian and jere and I were
in the middle of the circle having to explain to
(22:31):
them that we're not like you're the media.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
You've come to like you've.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
Come to like get it wrong about us, because that
did happen a lot, right, Yeah, to be fair, like
these guys were in San Francisco before the hippie thing,
a lot of them. Yeah, okay, So so what happened
was was that people came from all over the country
(22:56):
to San Francisco for the Flower Power and you know,
you have fifteen year old people from Ohio come into
San Francisco with no money.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
They needed help.
Speaker 5 (23:07):
So Luckily the people like Peter Coyote and the Meme
Troop they called it the Mime Troop, Meme.
Speaker 4 (23:12):
Troop and the Diggers they were there to help, you know.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
So uh but my point on that is a long,
long prelude to say that there was also buses from
like tours going around see.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
The hippies and hey, Ashbury, get on the bus.
Speaker 5 (23:29):
And there were those Roger Corman films and it was
always like, you know, sort of exploitation.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Oh right, yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
So yeah, yeah for a community that's already trying to
get away from everything. But of course naturally people are curious.
Speaker 5 (23:47):
So yeah, so I looked out people were like, well,
you know, it was a classic blackbur situation. I was like, well,
it's not that you can't do it. There's no there's
no hierarchy there. It's all anarchistic in that everybody decides
and then they take it from there.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
But there's no like decrees or anything interesting.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
Yeah. So one thing that happened recently is somebody was.
Speaker 5 (24:12):
We're not that recently, but I'd say in the last
decade was people like, hey, you know what you guys,
I mean, we get it back then it was it
was what it was. But we want to decolonize Black
Bear because we're like white people living on indigenous land.
I think that's the basics of that of that thrust.
So there's always a different angle here, you know.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Yeah, oh yeah, Well after you broke through, was you know,
and convinced them that you weren't out to get them
that right? Was it a pretty good experience, you know,
interviewing and everything and filming.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
No, no major hiccups.
Speaker 5 (24:48):
No, it was great, great people, and you know, I
didn't want to make it like commercial for them or anything,
but a lot of the ideas I did agree with,
and where I personally wouldn't live on a commune, I
don't think I would.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
I liked a lot. You know. The film becomes almost
like a catalog.
Speaker 5 (25:08):
Of ideas of the counterculture sixties and seventies. So you
have ideas of you know, something really basic like.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Feminism, well right, yeah, you know.
Speaker 5 (25:20):
Ideas about yeah, about about that everything doesn't have to
be monogamous couples, although eventually people did couple off. I think,
ideas about sharing, ideas about self sufficiency, all kinds of
stuff you know, about medicine, about getting away from only
(25:44):
relying on Western medicine. By the way, I think master
medicine is amazing. But you know, there is something to
be said for the herbal traditions of indigenous people around
the world.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
There's a lot of wisdom.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
There, right, Yeah, So there was that.
Speaker 5 (26:00):
Whole thing reaching into native wisdom and practices, which you know.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
Often wound up becoming a little bit uncool.
Speaker 5 (26:11):
I could say, like like when a bunch of like
stone or hippies are doing a sweat lodge and they
don't know anything about the tradition.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (26:19):
I would have have Native or American Indian people speak
for themselves and stuff like that. But I think there
was some some backlash on that, understandably.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Oh I imagine like like white people doing yoga and
stuff and just not maybe not respecting what it, you know,
where it came from and whatever, that kind of thing.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
And that's funny.
Speaker 5 (26:40):
It reminds me of the time I did yoga and
there was an Indian couple there, and I guess they
were Indian American. I was like, oh, well, you guys,
did you do this in your village? Like our village
we grow up in New Jersey.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
We've never done yoga before in our lives. I'm not
sure how. You know, yoga is an interesting thing. I
do it, but I'm not sure how far that really
goes back.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah yeah, yeah, and I'm not sure.
Speaker 5 (27:05):
Okay, according to AI, which knows everything, it says over
five thousand years ago to ancient India.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Hmm okay, well thanks, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
That's pretty long.
Speaker 5 (27:15):
Yeah yeah, but again I consistently get stuff wrong.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
You know, it's just like, oh.
Speaker 5 (27:22):
Here's a great inn you can stay in, and then
I explore further and they're like, we're sorry, you're right
to call me out on that, Jonathan, that.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
In doesn't exist.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Yeah, that's I mean, yeah, the thing is definitely well,
I guess yeah.
Speaker 5 (27:41):
We could talk about AI for twinnas, but I guess
the point of all that is that yoga as a
cultural appropriation, that it is something I don't necessarily know about.
Speaker 4 (27:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Yeah, but but that is something to be said about
about the commune wanting to to get more in touch
with that kind of thing and hopefully maybe do it right,
or at least just investigate it and not just take
it for granted or something.
Speaker 5 (28:11):
Yeah, that's right and natural childbirth was a thing. No, right,
and again I would urge people to like not shoot
Western medicine. I think that's a big mistake. And I think, yeah,
this is another this is a two hour discussion, and
I'm not an expert in it, but I think, you know,
saying I'm not taking vaccines, which I've had friends.
Speaker 4 (28:31):
Is a mistake is personally, But I guess, do.
Speaker 5 (28:34):
Your own research, just check that your sources actually are real,
because there's so I mean, the one thing that was
different from then and now, one of many is that
there wasn't that much media. Now, every single day, the
amount of media that's produced by people is equal to
like the whole history of media before it, right, So
it's so crazy. So back then we had like people
(28:56):
talking to each other. But when I grew up of
the tail end of the baby boom, you know, early
seventies and all that, we had three channels on TV.
There was no cable, so there's a lot less media happening.
There was no texting obviously and all that, so there
were other ways to get your information. Now it's just
like AI and people in general just grab stuff. Like
(29:21):
my students at cal State will grab stuff I'm like, well,
what's your source. It's like Jimmy's blog. You know, I
don't know if that's the person who should be telling
us about the French New Wave. He might know a lot,
But I think what they call that peer reviewed studies
are good. Just because someone made it through the university
(29:44):
system to be fair doesn't mean in the arts at least,
doesn't mean they know all. But you know, know your
sources right in this case. So speaking of media, we
lucked out because you know, the people we interviewed them,
it was retrospective.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
They were talking.
Speaker 5 (30:00):
About their past as a young people in the early
twenties and stuff, living in the woods and trying to
create a new society. But we were seeing them when
they were older, so we lucked out. There was an
early version of video called portapac and there's a cool
documentary about that whole era. I'll find the name of it.
(30:21):
And it was like the first portable video. And some
guy was traveling around from commune to commune, almost.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
Like a telegram. So you would say hi to your
friends in Colorado on video.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Oh I see.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
Then he would bring it to the next town.
Speaker 5 (30:37):
So it was all this video and Elsa Marley was
one of the founders of Black Bear, was like, you
should go find this guy he has I think he
has a bunch of footage he shot and turned out
it was rotting away in a basement in Oregon, so
we were able to get it out from him. And God,
(30:57):
bless God, bless Elsa and those guys. It's for being
able to do that.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
That's great that my my my wife is an archivist.
And I've I've since come to know like how much
you just think you just think we have all all
of knowledge or whatever of knowledge, but a lot of
it is actually sitting in basements rotting away that wait,
you know, you just don't. We just don't know that
it's there to get, Like there's really important documents and
(31:26):
videos and all sorts of stuff that are just in
somebody's attic or something.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
Right, Oh, totally, and then history changes.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
You know.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
Yeah, we think history is one.
Speaker 5 (31:35):
Thing, but it turns out it's. Well, that was one
of the reasons to make the film, because yeah, there
was this whole idea of like flaky hippies and all that,
and certainly they were flaky hippies, right, but there was
also some.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
Other things happening.
Speaker 5 (31:49):
And also there were a lot of wins out of
that era of the sixties, So I think that's really
important to note that history is dynamic, it's always changing
depending upon the materials, and then also the uh, the viewers,
you know, like it's flexible.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Yeah, yeah, kind of like I can't remember who it
was in the film, became a lawyer and he said
something along the lines of like, this is my way
of fighting the system is you know, is by getting
into law and fighting it from within or something like that,
and which reminded me of the movie SLC Punk because
(32:29):
the dad and that says kind of the same thing
sort of, but and then I know that's right, the
main character ends up saying that at the end, like yeah,
it's it's you know, fight the system with the within whatever.
So I thought that was really interesting a way of
approaching that.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
Yeah, oh totally.
Speaker 5 (32:47):
I mean a lot of people get seduced by the.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
By the whole money thing.
Speaker 5 (32:54):
Yeah yeah, so they become lawyers and they're helping the trees,
and then the next thing, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah,
they're making eight hundred thousand or that's probably not even
the probably more than that.
Speaker 4 (33:10):
Whatever. A year. Yeah, and then.
Speaker 5 (33:12):
Helping the corporations tear down in the trees. That's not good.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
Yeah, that's and then the next generation comes up and
gets mad about it and tries it again. I guess
that's the that's the that's human history right there in
a nutshell.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Uh so that's cool.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
So where, well, where what is the plan for you
getting the film out?
Speaker 2 (33:36):
It's is it back out into festivals and stuff? Are you?
Are you sending it around?
Speaker 3 (33:41):
I mean obviously sending the podcast and stuff like that,
but getting the word out, Like, are there any special
events or anything for it?
Speaker 5 (33:49):
Yeah, there's a bunch of screenings happening, and many of
them have special events around them. We are showing in September.
We're doing a little tour.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
Shockinglyake, California is interested.
Speaker 5 (34:03):
In the film, and we'll have we'll have participants from
the Black Bear Range as well as the filmmakers, me
and my co producer there in We're playing Berkeley and Sebastopol,
which is above Marine, and right in Marin in San
ra Raphael, and then we're going to be screening in
(34:23):
Los Angeles at this amazing historic place called Philosophical Research.
Speaker 4 (34:30):
Society.
Speaker 5 (34:31):
I think it was, and it's in Los Phelis and
also in Ohai free screenings in Ohai, So I'll be
there for all those and they'll be in the Bay
Area at least they'll be black Bear people there, so
that's great.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's again like you said, it's
it's cool when those people are there and you know,
you see them on screen or whatever. But then you know,
you get to hear there are more stories and and
everything at these events, and it becomes it becomes, I
don't know, it becomes more than a film. It's just
all of a sudden, like, oh, this is real. Here's
those people. I just saw them.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
Yeah, that's right, that's right. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (35:10):
You know there was people who we filmed for the
movie who aren't in the film, just for various reasons,
like you can only have a certain it's already pretty
breezy and quick, so you know, maybe they'll show up
and give their start of the story.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
Yeah, I'm reminded of I can't remember the name of
the film, but there was at the Atlanta Film Festival
there was a film about a nonverbal autistic child who
she she ended up coming to the screening and she
only got one question because it was it was a
lot of noise and everything.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
It was too much.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
But they said something like, you know, what's it like
to be in the film and see all these people
who love you? And she just said I am a
superstar in like the entire room erupted and we were
just like yeah, which I guess in hindsight wasn't great
for her, but we all just loved it so much
that she was. She just said that, So, I mean, like,
(36:12):
where else can you get that experience like that? You know,
you can't watch it at HOMEI get that.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
It was amazing.
Speaker 5 (36:22):
Yeah, the actual listings of all the screenings, we have
a few more in New York and they keep growing
and people keep asking for it.
Speaker 4 (36:30):
So there is a desire for for this stuff.
Speaker 5 (36:34):
And uh it's communethmovie dot com.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Okay, yeah, and that's I guess that's where everybody at
home can see it if they find links for it
and everything on all the major streaming stuff.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
Well for now, in theaters because we want to get
people experience. Yeah, yeah, together.
Speaker 5 (36:55):
We just showed a did a screening in upstate New
York and Beacon, beautiful little town, and.
Speaker 4 (37:02):
We all talked for like an hour after the Q.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
And a oh nice, that's great.
Speaker 4 (37:07):
Yeah, it's a good sign for me.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, especially for a
film like this, which is all about community, right right,
you know, have little mini communities at the screenings.
Speaker 4 (37:19):
There you go, you meet your new housemates. Right.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Well, that's cool.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
I really appreciate you coming on talking about it. Where
can we find information about you? Do you have any
websites for yourself or Instagrams or any of that stuff.
Speaker 5 (37:33):
Well, I was telling you before, I teach at cal
State San Marco's a really cool school in North s Diego,
California State University, very big system of schools. Our school
is awesome, and there you can find me there through
cal State San Marcos and some stuff about my previous work.
I have some other films and I have a new
one that I'm doing as we speak, a little slightly
(37:56):
delayed for various reasons, particularly in putting this film out there.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
Yeah yeah, yeah, imagine full time job for sure a bit.
Yeah yeah, well yeah, I again, I appreciate you coming on.
It sounds like everybody's got it. If you anywhere near
these screenings, go go check them out. It's going to
be a lot of fun.
Speaker 5 (38:18):
Or if you want to executive produce the documentary, we
always you know you need resources.
Speaker 4 (38:23):
I mean you can you can use air for a while,
but ultimately, you.
Speaker 5 (38:29):
Know, you really want to have an editor who's working
with you, who gets paid and paid for archival footage.
So my new film is super political and it's a
third part of the California trilogy. The second part was
called Calling All Earthlings that was about an early UFO
contact ee and that's quite a story too. That's pretty
(38:49):
available on every platform. And then this third one is
called Gondola And if anyone's interested, yeah, actually, Open Signal
Studios is my website for all the projects.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Oh yeah, there you go. Cool. Yeah, well cool, everybody
go check that out. And Jonathan thinks again, it was
great talking to you.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
Hey, great talking to you man.
Speaker 6 (39:21):
Thanks for listening to Atlanta Film Hit subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
or wherever you find your podcasts. The show is produced
by Trinkle Aggression Productions and Zombie Cat Productions. Your host
is Chuck Thomas. Editing is by Joshua Goolkey. The soundtrack
is by Michael Breezy, Keys Jones I am your humble announcer,
(39:45):
Rob Scheimer. Remember you are your own biggest frans. So
go out, make your projects, and don't let anyone stop you.
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