December 16, 2024 • 23 mins
Fran Rafferty, paranormal guide and one of the masterminds behind The Old Jail After Dark, chats with Victoria Elizabeth about the dark history of the Old Jail, bone chilling experiences while on the clock, and the dark origins of the inception of his unorthodox career.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
FCB Faith is your rhythm and preystation.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I listen, my mom listens, pretty much the whole family.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Can I can.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
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Speaker 2 (00:48):
This is the FCB podcast Network.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
This is Fascist Pass. Hi, everyone, and welcome into another
episode of Backstage Pass. It's your host Victoria and we
are here at the Old Jail after Dark in the
beautiful Eeries Saint Augustine, Florida. I'm here today with our
(01:22):
ghost host if I can call you that, Fran.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
How are you tonight?
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Doing fantastic? Thank you, glad you're here, Glad to be here.
Speaker 5 (01:28):
Thank you so much for having us.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
So let's take it all back to the beginning of really,
what's your baby? The Old Jail after Dark one of
the hot ticket things to do in town.
Speaker 5 (01:38):
How did this come to be for you?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Well, to take it back to square one. This actually
was born through the pandemic when we had certain CDC
guidelines that we had to abide by. We can only
allow a certain amount of people into a specific property
or location or room, and so Ghosts and Great Stones
was what normally happened for us, and you're looking at
(02:05):
thirty to thirty five people per tour, and that wouldn't
do under the new CDC guidelines. So we had to
come up with something different, and David Chatterton decided, Hey,
let's go ahead and do a paranormal experience. And so
that gave birth to the Old Jail after Dark, which
actually would only allow twelve, which is perfect to still
(02:26):
stay within the guidelines. And from that day forward it
just grew in popularity because the building just responded and
even to this day it's still responding.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
I love that, And not to knock any of the
other tours out there, but sometimes when you think of
a ghost tour, you think kind of kitchy and touristy.
But there's a lot of bloodshed, if you will, behind
these walls. I mean, there's some sinister stuff. So what
I find fascinating is how this job really came to be.
Speaker 5 (02:54):
You got a call from somebody who may or may
not have been real. Can you tell us about how
you got called to this place? Because to me, that
story is fascinating that yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Okay, so this takes us back to twenty sixteen. Okay,
this is way back. Sorry, I'll keep going. Yeah, it
takes us back to twenty sixteen, where I was in
the market for a new job and it was time
for me to kind of move on and you know,
follow my dream and passions, which was more or less
(03:25):
in getting involved in the entertainment industry and tourism and whatnot.
So I sent out a few applications here and there,
but I don't remember sending one to historic Tours of
Americatown trolley. Sure. So I get this phone call, and
this is a crazy call. I'll never forget. There was
actually a voicemail and it was from a lady who
(03:47):
went by the name Nancy, said that if you know,
we have a position that is potentially open for you,
and if you had the time, if you could come
here between such and such an hour. And I was like, okay,
So I called back the number and I you know,
it just went to like a fast busy. I'm like,
I'll just show up and see what it's about. So
I get here and yeah, I'm here to see Nancy
(04:08):
from my interview, and I'll never forget that day. They
look for the books, They're like, no, we don't have
anybody on the books for an interview today, and who
gain did you speak with? It's like Nancy, No, there's
no Nancy here. I was like, oh wow, well I
guess sorry, sorry if you know, sorry for your you know,
(04:30):
the time I took here or whatever. I just felt bad.
I was like, man, how did that? This is one
sixty seven San Marco Avenue, right, and you know, the
director of First Impression said yes it is. So I
was just like, okay, well, I guess I'll go, but
you know, thanks for your time. And right when I
turned around, you know I have someone grabbed my shoulder
(04:51):
and it was Stephen Mitchell, who is the general man
were at the general he's the manager of daytime operations
here at the at the facility, and he's like, you know,
we actually have an opening as we speak, and we
could come in and see you. And I went in.
I interviewed. I met Dave Chatterton who happened to be there.
Steven Mitchell was there, and they began to interview me.
(05:14):
And from that moment on, you know, things start opening
up for me. I got a position as actually as
an actor for ghosts and gravestones, and I moved up
to an assistant manager on duty and then from there
I moved into the old jail after dark with doing
the PARANORL investigations seven days a week. Very cool.
Speaker 5 (05:35):
I love that. So I feel like, you know, you
could call it a gift.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
But when you were a kid, you had a really
interesting and albeit unsettling experience with maybe the undead who knows.
Speaker 5 (05:46):
Can you tell us a little bit more about that?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Yeah, man, I wish my dad was here to tell
it to you a little better. I'm so I was young,
you know, me, I to a grasshopper, and my dad
said that I would come in almost every night and
tell him someone's talking to me and I couldn't go
to sleep. And it started out as just like I
was telling my dad, this person's annoying. They just won't
you know, they won't shut up. Sure, He's like, I
(06:11):
was like, you know, can you come in my room?
And he never come in the room. He just like
never came in and checked it out. Yeah, Like I
guess he wanted me to breathe in there.
Speaker 5 (06:20):
He's like, that got it.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
I got to teach you how to be a man.
So I'm like, yeah, So this went on and then
I start getting really dark. I'll never forget. And then
I and this voice, whatever it was that I could remember,
start sounding a little bit more chilling, and then I
would refer to that voice as the devil. So I'd
go in and tell my dad. I was like that, look, man,
there's there's something in the room. I think it is
the devil talking to me. And my Dad's like, oh man,
(06:42):
what's going on? So anyway, it got to my mother
and my grandmother found out about it, and then we
all had like that, you know, come to Jesus meeting
and you know, I come from a Roman Catholic family,
and you're like, well, Francis, I think it's time that
you go ahead and we take the next step. And
you know, being a kid, I was like, okay, whatever
it is, I don't care what it is. I just
(07:02):
wanted to go away. It's like, what are your thoughts
on becoming an ultar boy and working for the Catholic Church?
And I agreed, and I'll tell you after taking that position,
you know, as an ultar boy, those events did start minimizing,
and that dark voice kind of got smaller and smaller
and smaller, but still it was there, and I got
(07:23):
to say, it's just like I totally feel that I
was being tormented since a child because as a young child,
even after even at those early stages, because of the
effects I had being an altar boy and you know,
the protection that I received that I truly felt. I felt, well,
why not just take it to the next level become
a priest. And so that was my you know, that
was like my family just thought that was the greatest thing.
(07:45):
Oh my god, my child, we raise a child to
become a priest. This is like, you know, they felt honored.
And you know, eventually throughout the you know, maturity and
whatnot and getting older and getting involved in sports, priesthood
really wasn't my thing. But I was always so so
passionate about the supernatural and that proverbial door that you
(08:06):
can open to the spirit world because of that connection
I had as a young boy, for sure, you know,
and I didn't know who I was talking to what
I was talking to, but every night it did seem different.
So it was it was pretty crazy. My parents were concerned,
they were sure. Yeah, my dad was a coal miner too,
so he was always working in the mines and yeah,
It's the last thing that he wanted to hear when
(08:27):
he came home was his son's getting possessed by It
really wasn't a possession. It was just a conversation that
I needed his help. That ever ary right, And so yeah,
So I gotta say getting involved with the church definitely
changed things for me and I got closer to God.
And I'll tell you that just that was that's a
(08:48):
force that the higher Power keeps you, keeps you right,
and keeps you on the right track. And I think
at an early age, you know, I was vulnerable, very vulnerable.
I think I was like maybe six or seven years old,
started early.
Speaker 5 (09:00):
That's very fascinating. Absolutely, that is fascinating to me.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
So you have led thousands of people in and out
of these doors and you but I love about the
old jail after dark. It's not some sterile like corporate
feeling experience. You can only book so many people at
a time, so it's very personalized.
Speaker 5 (09:16):
It's very one on one.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
You've seen people's reactions and their experiences. I've had experiences
in the past with my phone unlocking on its own,
you know, demonic eyes coming up, the word soul coming
up over the EVP recording device save. I have seen
probably an experience more things behind these walls than I
ever had before. And I've had a lot of encounters,
So walk us through, Like, what are some top maybe
(09:39):
three memorable encounters you've had doing this?
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Well, okayte the most memorable encounter that still I carried
with it. I think about it every time I come
here and turn on one of our portal boxes, which
is a spirit box that uses white noise to open
up a line of communication with another realm. I'm gonna
call it the dead Some would say it's an interdimensional realm,
(10:04):
or you know, some people think it's a truck driver
from Maine. I you know, who knows, right, But it
does create some communication. I had a family, Well here's
the story I had on the books. This was all
that was that came that night. We had a family
of five, a party of five. And they came up
and they checked in and there was only four and
(10:26):
they said, there's only four of us tonight. And I
didn't question. I was like, okay, let's go ahead and start. So,
you know, we did the we started. I explained to
them the history of the building safety, you know, precautions,
and whatnot, just your normal introduction, your pre investigation, and
then we went right into the investigation part. And normally,
(10:46):
you know, we'll go ahead and lay out equipment and
wait wait for the energy to start presenting itself so
way you know where it's at. But these people asked
are like, where is the where do you get the
most energy? And I kind of told them there's two
areas as you have the shaff's bedroom and you also
have solitary confinement. They're like, let's go in the solitary confinement.
So we went in the solitary confinement. I plugged in
(11:08):
the portal box, which is that amplifier that uses a
spirit box through an amplifier to clean up the white noise. Well, anyhow,
questions we stay, start asking questions. They're like, okay, who's
with us? And you know, nothing came through. And this
went on for about ten minutes. We didn't get a response.
Right when they're about to leave the room, the mother says, okay,
(11:29):
if no one's here, we're gonna leave. So last call
who's with us? Clear as day, the word Jacob comes
through and I was like wow. I was like okay, well,
Jacob and the family looked at each other. Right, So
I'm like, okay, all right, and then the mother seemed
like you were short of breath, and she asked that
(11:51):
question again. She's like, okay, who again, is this clear
as day, back to back, Jacob. The mother starts crying.
One of the little girls who was in the investigation,
she got maybe fourteen years old, she says, she says,
she says, I'm sorry. She's like, you know, it's my fault.
You know, you know, I a whole lot of second.
(12:13):
Can we be back up for a second. Of course,
she didn't say I'm sorry, but I'll take it first.
And it's okay, so here comes the girl again. Okay,
the girl starts. The girl actually said she's like Jacob.
She's like, I shouldn't let you go. It's my fault.
It's my fault. And then the mother starts crying. The
(12:35):
father leaves. He looked like he was really really mad.
He left the building. The girls start, both of the
girls start crying, and clear as day, it says, I'm sorry.
Sound the same voice that said Jacob. And everybody start crying,
and I'm like, look and I'm trying to figure it out.
And then the mother grabs my hand and says, this
(12:59):
was Jacob's idea, said Jacob didn't come today because Jacob
committed suicide.
Speaker 5 (13:06):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Yeah, that's heavy.
Speaker 5 (13:10):
Yeah wow, I'm sure that.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
I mean, how do you handle something like that as
a I mean, do you go into therapy mode or
do you?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
I mean, it's just I couldn't. I had no words. Yeah,
I had no words because I usually try to keep
everything upbeat, but it was just like everything was started,
the process. Why the father left the room, where everybody
started crying and the mother started losing their breath and wow.
So yeah, so that to me was the most oh wow,
(13:43):
I can't even call it like next level experience that
I think about every time I stick on that. I
mean every time I go into solitary confinement and I
turn on that that device, I think of Jacob every time,
every time, just because of that heart breaking. It is heartbreaking,
and so in my head, you know, after the investigation
was over, and the investigation went longer because they didn't
(14:04):
want to leave after two thirty, they felt like Jacob
was with them and this was their opportunity. And I'm like,
oh my god, how am I gonna you know, present
the fact that we have to close it up and
have to move on. But the mother. We were here
till about three thirty, and the mother was like, okay,
I guess it's time to go. And then she kind
of shut the machine off and she's like, she's like
(14:27):
thank you. I was like, I was like, don't thank me.
I mean, this is this is something I guess that
you guys needed to hear. This is this is your energy,
this is this is someone who's still with you, you know,
and probably wants you to know that they're okay. That
was the best thing I could think of. I'm sure,
you know. And so they left. They got closure. But
(14:48):
still in my head, it's just like, Okay, was it
really Jacob that came through or was it something trying
to pretend it was Jacob? So I'm sure I'm still
it ends with it.
Speaker 5 (14:56):
Have you ever heard from him since?
Speaker 2 (14:57):
No?
Speaker 5 (14:58):
No, okay, I have not.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
But I'll tell you I didn't feel ill, any ill feelings.
I did feel love, and I kept to a lot
of my friends. You know. One of my good friends
is a priest, and he even told me because I
went to Catholic school of them, and he's like no,
he says that was probably Jacob. Now to tie into
that hole, and this will bring me to the second event.
That was pretty chilling. Now, the Catholic Church doesn't really
(15:23):
get involved in paranormal investigations, but you're ready for this.
I don't want to get anybody in trouble. I'm going
to tell you. Anyway, I had three priests from the
University of Notre Dame come here, you know, and this
was like almost right after Jacob, and they made everybody
know that they were a priest. I had a honeymoon
couple here and again we had five people, you know,
(15:45):
doing the investigation. And when they came in and they
started doing, they did their own thing. They didn't want
to do any equipment. They're like, I don't want to
be touching any of you heard that too, it's last
and the lights went.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
On something Yeah I did. It felt like ath it
felt like a like a flick. Oh my, yeah, and
then the light went off.
Speaker 5 (16:11):
I'm telling you never know, you never know in this place.
Like I said, there's some stuff going down.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
We're talking about some you know, some heavy stuff. Heavy stuff. Yes,
we are very heavy. So wow, So where was I
almost Oh? The three priests. Oh say, so they came
in here now here. Here's the thing. Now we have
a Bible over here too. So they picked up the
Bible and they start reading from the Bible, and I
(16:40):
was like, oh my god. They're like, you know, what
are they doing? They're like maybe doing something good or something.
I am going to tell you this if this didn't
freak me out. When they start reading from the Bible,
just like when we heard that little noise there and
I can't believe it just happened. The windows start vibrating.
Speaker 5 (16:57):
Yeah, so what what were they reading?
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Do you remember? I don't remember. They took some it was.
It might have been something. I have no idea. I
can't even I can't put you know how much the
Bible is? It just they were talking about Jesus, sure,
and I don't know. Whatever was in here was open
to the fact that they were talking to Jesus or
they weren't. But then they stopped treating abruptly. They never
(17:22):
they didn't say why, but they stopped treating the Bible
and then they start speaking in Latin. That's when the
honeymoon couple that was here decided to like, look, we're
ready to leave. Now. This is freaking us out back
for our time. This is definitely we want to start
our marriage on the right foot. We don't want to
have anything. I mean, everybody's I said, well, you can
go into another part of the building. They're like, no, man,
(17:43):
we've heard it. We heard what's going on in here,
and we heard the windows. And I'm like, and they
heard some bumps. Okay, you know. I'm like, you know,
think about it's funny. But when I was when it
was happening, I was like, this is like it shakes
you out. It doesn't. It's just the stuff like even
when Hollywood tries to make movies like that, but when
when it really happens and you're in the thick of things,
I start like I was praying you know that it
(18:05):
stayed away from me whatever they were conjuring up. But
for sure, yeah, but you can't really. You know, I
have a respect for everybody in here, but I didn't
know what they were doing. But it definitely it's it
got me. But they did something in here. But I
don't think it liked it too much because when they
were leaving, you know what they said, And this is
again something still sticks with me. They're like, you have
(18:27):
an unsettling presence in this jail. Yeah, And I was like,
but hearing it from a priest, three priests, and that
doesn't sound I don't think it sounds like a joke.
Three priests go to a jail and something like a
punch line. But the punchline is they told us it's
we kind of already know that there's been a lot
(18:47):
that went on here, especially how you you know about
the pain and the death and everything. But they were like,
there is an unsettling presence. And here's the thing about
this whole priest thing. I was gonna kind of talk about,
see back in the day, doing any kind of paranormal
investigations that involve, you know, anything, Priests aren't allowed to
(19:09):
do this because I was always taught that if you
reach out to anything, you know, you open up that
spirit or the spirit world, it is not good that
comes through. It's always been known to be demonic, right,
But now that the priests were here doing that, they're like,
we're realizing it's not all demonic. We know that there
are some trapped souls sure, and they need our help,
(19:31):
they need our guidance.
Speaker 5 (19:32):
Right, and here they are okay.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
So, you know, I was taken back by even having
them here. But now I realized that, you know, priests
now are getting involved in, you know, the paranormal side
of things. They're investigating and not discounting the fact that
it's completely all dark spirits. But they're good spirits, of course.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
And there is sort of a misconception, I guess, so
to speak, because after my experiences here there were two
very you know, there was one that there was a
woman and here leading a tour and my father said
some sort of Bible verse or my mother said something
and the equipment just sort of levitated and shot, this
was expensive equipment. She's not gonna So we've had a
(20:12):
few experiences here that are just, you incredibly unsettling, and
I tell people about them, and the number one thing
I hear is, well, I'm scared to go because what
if these things follow me home? What if this gets
in my So what would your advice be to someone
who's maybe toying with the idea of doing this, but
they're just terrified of being followed?
Speaker 5 (20:30):
Is there a way to purge yourself of that before
you leave?
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Yeah? What you have to do is, first off, you
don't want to conduct any kind of purging inside the
building that you're investigating. Sure, you're going to be outside,
you know, in a safe zone which is a little
away from the property. And before you get into your car,
before you touch any of your you know, at your
vehicle of any sort, you want to make sure that
(20:54):
you lay the boundaries and you state whatever's here must
reside at this premises has no invitation to follow. And
you could say that your own way, you know, personally,
you know, I tell people to tie in their own
you know, belief systems. But it needs to come from
a good place and you need to you need to
command it, and it has to come from a point
(21:15):
of authority, just like you're trying to address up puppy
that it needs to stay, you know, And that's how
you're going to address the spirits. Yeah, you know, And
that's just how it has to be, because if you
give anything an invitation and you open up and you
keep that door open, it will it could potentially attach
itself to you and then create issue. Did you know, Alice,
we're getting some hits.
Speaker 5 (21:35):
We're getting out.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
Yeah, we just got our lights are flashing and there
are a few keywords and things I think that you're
saying that I've noticed have triggered these lights.
Speaker 5 (21:44):
You guys, we're going to post a whole history. I'm
going to write a spotlight blog on this.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
We're going to give you all the inside scoop on
what we experience during this paranormal investigation, a little history
on the Old Jail, just so you can know the
injustice and bloodshed that happened behind these very walls before
we let everybody go.
Speaker 5 (22:00):
Fran, how do we book a tour with you?
Speaker 4 (22:02):
How do we follow along with you on social media
and get connected?
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Well, you could go to Old Town Trolley Tours and
you can go ahead and scroll down to Old Jail
after Dark. It's one of the tours. And so I
sewed up the marketing guy. Let's try it again. Okay,
we don't expect you.
Speaker 5 (22:26):
We'll post it all, okay.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
So yeah, what you want to do is you want
to go to Old Town Trolley Tours and look for
Old Joel after dark, Okay, And that's that's one of
the venues. But Ghosts and Gray Zones is also a
great venue, and the tour around Saint Augustine is also fantastic.
Because you learn.
Speaker 5 (22:45):
It is so great.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
I mean, it is the oldest city in America. It
has a lot to say for sure.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
Absolutely, well, fran it has been such a pleasure, I
mean this is so fascinating.
Speaker 5 (22:55):
Thank you for.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
Spending time with us today. Absolutely, and thank you all
for listening.
Speaker 5 (22:59):
As always.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
Want to thank Eric Hatcher on the camera there and
thank you for joining us on backstage pass.
Speaker 5 (23:04):
We'll see you next time.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
This has been a presentation of the FCB podcast Network,
where Real Talk lives.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Visit us online at fcbpodcasts dot com.
FCB Faith is your rhythm and preystation.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I listen, my mom listens, pretty much the whole family.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Can I can.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Listen to FCB Faith on iHeartRadio Odyssey at FCB faith
dot com, or tell your smart speaker to play FCB
Faith on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
This is the FCB podcast Network.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
This is Fascist Pass. Hi, everyone, and welcome into another
episode of Backstage Pass. It's your host Victoria and we
are here at the Old Jail after Dark in the
beautiful Eeries Saint Augustine, Florida. I'm here today with our
(01:22):
ghost host if I can call you that, Fran.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
How are you tonight?
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Doing fantastic? Thank you, glad you're here, Glad to be here.
Speaker 5 (01:28):
Thank you so much for having us.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
So let's take it all back to the beginning of really,
what's your baby? The Old Jail after Dark one of
the hot ticket things to do in town.
Speaker 5 (01:38):
How did this come to be for you?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Well, to take it back to square one. This actually
was born through the pandemic when we had certain CDC
guidelines that we had to abide by. We can only
allow a certain amount of people into a specific property
or location or room, and so Ghosts and Great Stones
was what normally happened for us, and you're looking at
(02:05):
thirty to thirty five people per tour, and that wouldn't
do under the new CDC guidelines. So we had to
come up with something different, and David Chatterton decided, Hey,
let's go ahead and do a paranormal experience. And so
that gave birth to the Old Jail after Dark, which
actually would only allow twelve, which is perfect to still
(02:26):
stay within the guidelines. And from that day forward it
just grew in popularity because the building just responded and
even to this day it's still responding.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
I love that, And not to knock any of the
other tours out there, but sometimes when you think of
a ghost tour, you think kind of kitchy and touristy.
But there's a lot of bloodshed, if you will, behind
these walls. I mean, there's some sinister stuff. So what
I find fascinating is how this job really came to be.
Speaker 5 (02:54):
You got a call from somebody who may or may
not have been real. Can you tell us about how
you got called to this place? Because to me, that
story is fascinating that yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Okay, so this takes us back to twenty sixteen. Okay,
this is way back. Sorry, I'll keep going. Yeah, it
takes us back to twenty sixteen, where I was in
the market for a new job and it was time
for me to kind of move on and you know,
follow my dream and passions, which was more or less
(03:25):
in getting involved in the entertainment industry and tourism and whatnot.
So I sent out a few applications here and there,
but I don't remember sending one to historic Tours of
Americatown trolley. Sure. So I get this phone call, and
this is a crazy call. I'll never forget. There was
actually a voicemail and it was from a lady who
(03:47):
went by the name Nancy, said that if you know,
we have a position that is potentially open for you,
and if you had the time, if you could come
here between such and such an hour. And I was like, okay,
So I called back the number and I you know,
it just went to like a fast busy. I'm like,
I'll just show up and see what it's about. So
I get here and yeah, I'm here to see Nancy
(04:08):
from my interview, and I'll never forget that day. They
look for the books, They're like, no, we don't have
anybody on the books for an interview today, and who
gain did you speak with? It's like Nancy, No, there's
no Nancy here. I was like, oh wow, well I
guess sorry, sorry if you know, sorry for your you know,
(04:30):
the time I took here or whatever. I just felt bad.
I was like, man, how did that? This is one
sixty seven San Marco Avenue, right, and you know, the
director of First Impression said yes it is. So I
was just like, okay, well, I guess I'll go, but
you know, thanks for your time. And right when I
turned around, you know I have someone grabbed my shoulder
(04:51):
and it was Stephen Mitchell, who is the general man
were at the general he's the manager of daytime operations
here at the at the facility, and he's like, you know,
we actually have an opening as we speak, and we
could come in and see you. And I went in.
I interviewed. I met Dave Chatterton who happened to be there.
Steven Mitchell was there, and they began to interview me.
(05:14):
And from that moment on, you know, things start opening
up for me. I got a position as actually as
an actor for ghosts and gravestones, and I moved up
to an assistant manager on duty and then from there
I moved into the old jail after dark with doing
the PARANORL investigations seven days a week. Very cool.
Speaker 5 (05:35):
I love that. So I feel like, you know, you
could call it a gift.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
But when you were a kid, you had a really
interesting and albeit unsettling experience with maybe the undead who knows.
Speaker 5 (05:46):
Can you tell us a little bit more about that?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Yeah, man, I wish my dad was here to tell
it to you a little better. I'm so I was young,
you know, me, I to a grasshopper, and my dad
said that I would come in almost every night and
tell him someone's talking to me and I couldn't go
to sleep. And it started out as just like I
was telling my dad, this person's annoying. They just won't
you know, they won't shut up. Sure, He's like, I
(06:11):
was like, you know, can you come in my room?
And he never come in the room. He just like
never came in and checked it out. Yeah, Like I
guess he wanted me to breathe in there.
Speaker 5 (06:20):
He's like, that got it.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
I got to teach you how to be a man.
So I'm like, yeah, So this went on and then
I start getting really dark. I'll never forget. And then
I and this voice, whatever it was that I could remember,
start sounding a little bit more chilling, and then I
would refer to that voice as the devil. So I'd
go in and tell my dad. I was like that, look, man,
there's there's something in the room. I think it is
the devil talking to me. And my Dad's like, oh man,
(06:42):
what's going on? So anyway, it got to my mother
and my grandmother found out about it, and then we
all had like that, you know, come to Jesus meeting
and you know, I come from a Roman Catholic family,
and you're like, well, Francis, I think it's time that
you go ahead and we take the next step. And
you know, being a kid, I was like, okay, whatever
it is, I don't care what it is. I just
(07:02):
wanted to go away. It's like, what are your thoughts
on becoming an ultar boy and working for the Catholic Church?
And I agreed, and I'll tell you after taking that position,
you know, as an ultar boy, those events did start minimizing,
and that dark voice kind of got smaller and smaller
and smaller, but still it was there, and I got
(07:23):
to say, it's just like I totally feel that I
was being tormented since a child because as a young child,
even after even at those early stages, because of the
effects I had being an altar boy and you know,
the protection that I received that I truly felt. I felt, well,
why not just take it to the next level become
a priest. And so that was my you know, that
was like my family just thought that was the greatest thing.
(07:45):
Oh my god, my child, we raise a child to
become a priest. This is like, you know, they felt honored.
And you know, eventually throughout the you know, maturity and
whatnot and getting older and getting involved in sports, priesthood
really wasn't my thing. But I was always so so
passionate about the supernatural and that proverbial door that you
(08:06):
can open to the spirit world because of that connection
I had as a young boy, for sure, you know,
and I didn't know who I was talking to what
I was talking to, but every night it did seem different.
So it was it was pretty crazy. My parents were concerned,
they were sure. Yeah, my dad was a coal miner too,
so he was always working in the mines and yeah,
It's the last thing that he wanted to hear when
(08:27):
he came home was his son's getting possessed by It
really wasn't a possession. It was just a conversation that
I needed his help. That ever ary right, And so yeah,
So I gotta say getting involved with the church definitely
changed things for me and I got closer to God.
And I'll tell you that just that was that's a
(08:48):
force that the higher Power keeps you, keeps you right,
and keeps you on the right track. And I think
at an early age, you know, I was vulnerable, very vulnerable.
I think I was like maybe six or seven years old,
started early.
Speaker 5 (09:00):
That's very fascinating. Absolutely, that is fascinating to me.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
So you have led thousands of people in and out
of these doors and you but I love about the
old jail after dark. It's not some sterile like corporate
feeling experience. You can only book so many people at
a time, so it's very personalized.
Speaker 5 (09:16):
It's very one on one.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
You've seen people's reactions and their experiences. I've had experiences
in the past with my phone unlocking on its own,
you know, demonic eyes coming up, the word soul coming
up over the EVP recording device save. I have seen
probably an experience more things behind these walls than I
ever had before. And I've had a lot of encounters,
So walk us through, Like, what are some top maybe
(09:39):
three memorable encounters you've had doing this?
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Well, okayte the most memorable encounter that still I carried
with it. I think about it every time I come
here and turn on one of our portal boxes, which
is a spirit box that uses white noise to open
up a line of communication with another realm. I'm gonna
call it the dead Some would say it's an interdimensional realm,
(10:04):
or you know, some people think it's a truck driver
from Maine. I you know, who knows, right, But it
does create some communication. I had a family, Well here's
the story I had on the books. This was all
that was that came that night. We had a family
of five, a party of five. And they came up
and they checked in and there was only four and
(10:26):
they said, there's only four of us tonight. And I
didn't question. I was like, okay, let's go ahead and start. So,
you know, we did the we started. I explained to
them the history of the building safety, you know, precautions,
and whatnot, just your normal introduction, your pre investigation, and
then we went right into the investigation part. And normally,
(10:46):
you know, we'll go ahead and lay out equipment and
wait wait for the energy to start presenting itself so
way you know where it's at. But these people asked
are like, where is the where do you get the
most energy? And I kind of told them there's two
areas as you have the shaff's bedroom and you also
have solitary confinement. They're like, let's go in the solitary confinement.
So we went in the solitary confinement. I plugged in
(11:08):
the portal box, which is that amplifier that uses a
spirit box through an amplifier to clean up the white noise. Well, anyhow,
questions we stay, start asking questions. They're like, okay, who's
with us? And you know, nothing came through. And this
went on for about ten minutes. We didn't get a response.
Right when they're about to leave the room, the mother says, okay,
(11:29):
if no one's here, we're gonna leave. So last call
who's with us? Clear as day, the word Jacob comes
through and I was like wow. I was like okay, well,
Jacob and the family looked at each other. Right, So
I'm like, okay, all right, and then the mother seemed
like you were short of breath, and she asked that
(11:51):
question again. She's like, okay, who again, is this clear
as day, back to back, Jacob. The mother starts crying.
One of the little girls who was in the investigation,
she got maybe fourteen years old, she says, she says,
she says, I'm sorry. She's like, you know, it's my fault.
You know, you know, I a whole lot of second.
(12:13):
Can we be back up for a second. Of course,
she didn't say I'm sorry, but I'll take it first.
And it's okay, so here comes the girl again. Okay,
the girl starts. The girl actually said she's like Jacob.
She's like, I shouldn't let you go. It's my fault.
It's my fault. And then the mother starts crying. The
(12:35):
father leaves. He looked like he was really really mad.
He left the building. The girls start, both of the
girls start crying, and clear as day, it says, I'm sorry.
Sound the same voice that said Jacob. And everybody start crying,
and I'm like, look and I'm trying to figure it out.
And then the mother grabs my hand and says, this
(12:59):
was Jacob's idea, said Jacob didn't come today because Jacob
committed suicide.
Speaker 5 (13:06):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Yeah, that's heavy.
Speaker 5 (13:10):
Yeah wow, I'm sure that.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
I mean, how do you handle something like that as
a I mean, do you go into therapy mode or
do you?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
I mean, it's just I couldn't. I had no words. Yeah,
I had no words because I usually try to keep
everything upbeat, but it was just like everything was started,
the process. Why the father left the room, where everybody
started crying and the mother started losing their breath and wow.
So yeah, so that to me was the most oh wow,
(13:43):
I can't even call it like next level experience that
I think about every time I stick on that. I
mean every time I go into solitary confinement and I
turn on that that device, I think of Jacob every time,
every time, just because of that heart breaking. It is heartbreaking,
and so in my head, you know, after the investigation
was over, and the investigation went longer because they didn't
(14:04):
want to leave after two thirty, they felt like Jacob
was with them and this was their opportunity. And I'm like,
oh my god, how am I gonna you know, present
the fact that we have to close it up and
have to move on. But the mother. We were here
till about three thirty, and the mother was like, okay,
I guess it's time to go. And then she kind
of shut the machine off and she's like, she's like
(14:27):
thank you. I was like, I was like, don't thank me.
I mean, this is this is something I guess that
you guys needed to hear. This is this is your energy,
this is this is someone who's still with you, you know,
and probably wants you to know that they're okay. That
was the best thing I could think of. I'm sure,
you know. And so they left. They got closure. But
(14:48):
still in my head, it's just like, Okay, was it
really Jacob that came through or was it something trying
to pretend it was Jacob? So I'm sure I'm still
it ends with it.
Speaker 5 (14:56):
Have you ever heard from him since?
Speaker 2 (14:57):
No?
Speaker 5 (14:58):
No, okay, I have not.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
But I'll tell you I didn't feel ill, any ill feelings.
I did feel love, and I kept to a lot
of my friends. You know. One of my good friends
is a priest, and he even told me because I
went to Catholic school of them, and he's like no,
he says that was probably Jacob. Now to tie into
that hole, and this will bring me to the second event.
That was pretty chilling. Now, the Catholic Church doesn't really
(15:23):
get involved in paranormal investigations, but you're ready for this.
I don't want to get anybody in trouble. I'm going
to tell you. Anyway, I had three priests from the
University of Notre Dame come here, you know, and this
was like almost right after Jacob, and they made everybody
know that they were a priest. I had a honeymoon
couple here and again we had five people, you know,
(15:45):
doing the investigation. And when they came in and they
started doing, they did their own thing. They didn't want
to do any equipment. They're like, I don't want to
be touching any of you heard that too, it's last
and the lights went.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
On something Yeah I did. It felt like ath it
felt like a like a flick. Oh my, yeah, and
then the light went off.
Speaker 5 (16:11):
I'm telling you never know, you never know in this place.
Like I said, there's some stuff going down.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
We're talking about some you know, some heavy stuff. Heavy stuff. Yes,
we are very heavy. So wow, So where was I
almost Oh? The three priests. Oh say, so they came
in here now here. Here's the thing. Now we have
a Bible over here too. So they picked up the
Bible and they start reading from the Bible, and I
(16:40):
was like, oh my god. They're like, you know, what
are they doing? They're like maybe doing something good or something.
I am going to tell you this if this didn't
freak me out. When they start reading from the Bible,
just like when we heard that little noise there and
I can't believe it just happened. The windows start vibrating.
Speaker 5 (16:57):
Yeah, so what what were they reading?
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Do you remember? I don't remember. They took some it was.
It might have been something. I have no idea. I
can't even I can't put you know how much the
Bible is? It just they were talking about Jesus, sure,
and I don't know. Whatever was in here was open
to the fact that they were talking to Jesus or
they weren't. But then they stopped treating abruptly. They never
(17:22):
they didn't say why, but they stopped treating the Bible
and then they start speaking in Latin. That's when the
honeymoon couple that was here decided to like, look, we're
ready to leave. Now. This is freaking us out back
for our time. This is definitely we want to start
our marriage on the right foot. We don't want to
have anything. I mean, everybody's I said, well, you can
go into another part of the building. They're like, no, man,
(17:43):
we've heard it. We heard what's going on in here,
and we heard the windows. And I'm like, and they
heard some bumps. Okay, you know. I'm like, you know,
think about it's funny. But when I was when it
was happening, I was like, this is like it shakes
you out. It doesn't. It's just the stuff like even
when Hollywood tries to make movies like that, but when
when it really happens and you're in the thick of things,
I start like I was praying you know that it
(18:05):
stayed away from me whatever they were conjuring up. But
for sure, yeah, but you can't really. You know, I
have a respect for everybody in here, but I didn't
know what they were doing. But it definitely it's it
got me. But they did something in here. But I
don't think it liked it too much because when they
were leaving, you know what they said, And this is
again something still sticks with me. They're like, you have
(18:27):
an unsettling presence in this jail. Yeah, And I was like,
but hearing it from a priest, three priests, and that
doesn't sound I don't think it sounds like a joke.
Three priests go to a jail and something like a
punch line. But the punchline is they told us it's
we kind of already know that there's been a lot
(18:47):
that went on here, especially how you you know about
the pain and the death and everything. But they were like,
there is an unsettling presence. And here's the thing about
this whole priest thing. I was gonna kind of talk about,
see back in the day, doing any kind of paranormal
investigations that involve, you know, anything, Priests aren't allowed to
(19:09):
do this because I was always taught that if you
reach out to anything, you know, you open up that
spirit or the spirit world, it is not good that
comes through. It's always been known to be demonic, right,
But now that the priests were here doing that, they're like,
we're realizing it's not all demonic. We know that there
are some trapped souls sure, and they need our help,
(19:31):
they need our guidance.
Speaker 5 (19:32):
Right, and here they are okay.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
So, you know, I was taken back by even having
them here. But now I realized that, you know, priests
now are getting involved in, you know, the paranormal side
of things. They're investigating and not discounting the fact that
it's completely all dark spirits. But they're good spirits, of course.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
And there is sort of a misconception, I guess, so
to speak, because after my experiences here there were two
very you know, there was one that there was a
woman and here leading a tour and my father said
some sort of Bible verse or my mother said something
and the equipment just sort of levitated and shot, this
was expensive equipment. She's not gonna So we've had a
(20:12):
few experiences here that are just, you incredibly unsettling, and
I tell people about them, and the number one thing
I hear is, well, I'm scared to go because what
if these things follow me home? What if this gets
in my So what would your advice be to someone
who's maybe toying with the idea of doing this, but
they're just terrified of being followed?
Speaker 5 (20:30):
Is there a way to purge yourself of that before
you leave?
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Yeah? What you have to do is, first off, you
don't want to conduct any kind of purging inside the
building that you're investigating. Sure, you're going to be outside,
you know, in a safe zone which is a little
away from the property. And before you get into your car,
before you touch any of your you know, at your
vehicle of any sort, you want to make sure that
(20:54):
you lay the boundaries and you state whatever's here must
reside at this premises has no invitation to follow. And
you could say that your own way, you know, personally,
you know, I tell people to tie in their own
you know, belief systems. But it needs to come from
a good place and you need to you need to
command it, and it has to come from a point
(21:15):
of authority, just like you're trying to address up puppy
that it needs to stay, you know, And that's how
you're going to address the spirits. Yeah, you know, And
that's just how it has to be, because if you
give anything an invitation and you open up and you
keep that door open, it will it could potentially attach
itself to you and then create issue. Did you know, Alice,
we're getting some hits.
Speaker 5 (21:35):
We're getting out.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
Yeah, we just got our lights are flashing and there
are a few keywords and things I think that you're
saying that I've noticed have triggered these lights.
Speaker 5 (21:44):
You guys, we're going to post a whole history. I'm
going to write a spotlight blog on this.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
We're going to give you all the inside scoop on
what we experience during this paranormal investigation, a little history
on the Old Jail, just so you can know the
injustice and bloodshed that happened behind these very walls before
we let everybody go.
Speaker 5 (22:00):
Fran, how do we book a tour with you?
Speaker 4 (22:02):
How do we follow along with you on social media
and get connected?
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Well, you could go to Old Town Trolley Tours and
you can go ahead and scroll down to Old Jail
after Dark. It's one of the tours. And so I
sewed up the marketing guy. Let's try it again. Okay,
we don't expect you.
Speaker 5 (22:26):
We'll post it all, okay.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
So yeah, what you want to do is you want
to go to Old Town Trolley Tours and look for
Old Joel after dark, Okay, And that's that's one of
the venues. But Ghosts and Gray Zones is also a
great venue, and the tour around Saint Augustine is also fantastic.
Because you learn.
Speaker 5 (22:45):
It is so great.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
I mean, it is the oldest city in America. It
has a lot to say for sure.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
Absolutely, well, fran it has been such a pleasure, I
mean this is so fascinating.
Speaker 5 (22:55):
Thank you for.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
Spending time with us today. Absolutely, and thank you all
for listening.
Speaker 5 (22:59):
As always.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
Want to thank Eric Hatcher on the camera there and
thank you for joining us on backstage pass.
Speaker 5 (23:04):
We'll see you next time.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
This has been a presentation of the FCB podcast Network,
where Real Talk lives.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Visit us online at fcbpodcasts dot com.
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