Episode 150: Trenton Yackzan & Ryan Fry of Sudwerk and Paulina Olivares of Pink Boots Society

Host Ben Rice travels to Davis, CA to sit down with Ryan Fry and Trenton Yackzan of the legendary Sudwerk, with special guest Paulina Olivares of the Sacramento Pink Boots Society and co-host of Barley & Me Presents: Leonard Malting, our beer movie offshoot. In this episode, we talk about the past, present, and future of Sudwerk specifically and beer in general, in three separate parts, recorded in their new outdoor seating area, in their new restaurant, and in their meeting hall. In part 3, we're joined by surprise guest (he just happened to be there while we recorded), Chris White of White Labs!
Join us as we discuss the origins of what was once America's #1 craft brewery for pints poured, including how it started as a hobby for Trenton's grandfather and his friends and how their original brewer stopped making beer for Sudwerk (and how the design of the brewhouse was meant to keep it from happening). Plus! Professional pilsner battles! Gateway beers! Open fermentation! And so much more, like the ever-hovering Year of the Lager, getting ahead of trends, and how old school marketing and education might help move craft beer forward in a drasticly changing market. All this and more, on episode 150 of Barley & Me. Enjoy!
You can see what's going on with Sudwerk @sudwerkbrew
Catch up with Sacramento icon Paulina Olivares @holapaulina and find out more about Sacramento Pink Boots Society @pinkbootssacramento
Got questions about yeast? Turn to Chris White and White Labs Yeast at www.whitelabs.com
And of course, Barley & Me can be found across social media @barleyandmepod.
Check out past episodes, show dates, and more, at the newly-revamped barleyandmepod.com 
Email questions/comments/concerns/guest ideas/brewery ideas to [e-mail] or [e-mail]
Ben is also posting #Chugs4Charity videos semi-regularly on Instagram (@barleyandmepod), to help raise funds for various local and national charities with goals of making our world a better place. You can Venmo Ben ($comedianbenrice) or hit his PayPal (@barleyandmepod) and all money will go to support the NAACP, ACLU, Black Lives Matter, and other civil rights helpers. Charities will change with the times and as emergencies arise. But the point is: all donations will go to help those who need it.
Intro Music: “Functional Alcoholism” by Be Brave Bold Robot (@bebraveboldrobot)
Interstitial Music: "JamRoc" by Breez (@breeztheartist)
Logo by Jessica DiMesio (@alchemistqueen)

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Something. They call it functional alcoholism. But if you know anything about Ben,
he's got vision with precision microphones andthe tingle love derision. Here about
to hear what NB, It's timefor Barley and Me. Welcome to Barley

(00:28):
and Me. I'm your host,Ben Rice. We're here today in Davis,
California, at a suit Work growingfor episode one hundred and fifty.
That's absurd number. I didn't evencount that high. Right drink, way
to go, Oh my, thanksfor doing it here, appreciate problem.
And we're very young for one tofifty, right, I'm impressed the standard.

(00:53):
That's true. It's true with ustoday. Of course. We got
from suit Work, got Trenton yoxOn. How's it going having me?
Great? Cheers? Yeah? Ourspecial guests from the Pink Boots Society,
Levares, also from Leonard Malting backin the day the COVID times. I
don't need these headphones. Why amI doing this? All right? Just
made sugar sounding good? We're soundinggreat alright, episode one fifty. We're

(01:15):
here. You guys have done alot of stuff that should work. Wow,
the last few years. What's goingon? We'll all right? How
did we get here? We aregoing to do the past. How do
we get here? Wow? Wellit's all blur. It's been shoot about
fourteen years since I've been involved insuit Org, but the brand's around since
nineteen eighty nine. So Sam,yeah there you go. Wow yeah right,

(01:42):
so yeah, perfect. So yeah, I was four. I was
four when the brewery started. Iwas just one here, okay, so
yeah, no it uh, itlooks a lot different, you know,
from where it did even just youknow, six months ago. So we've
come a long way. And itwas a ridge only started as a hobby
passion project essentially by my grandpa andhis business partner in eighty nine. And

(02:07):
my grandpa's architect, his buddy wasa builder, built German descent, and
tho not you know, not fortunatelike we are today where there's too many
options, yeah, you know,and so they're like, shoot, let's
let's take make some beer that tasteslike it should or like it did in
Germany. So they traveled to Germany. They went through Bavaria, sewed southern
through southern Bavaria and found a Germanbrewmeister and then also noticed each town had

(02:30):
its own local essentially sued work slangterm for community brewery. So they felt
like Davis with the perfect spot forthat which now today's world fortunately like most
towns have multiple community brewers. Sothey were pioneers in an aspect. They
saw the vision. They were ata time in their life where they could
afford to do it, and theygot together and they brought back this awesome,

(02:52):
great beer to Davis, which immediatelybuilt a cold following. And you
really couldn't find anything like this,you know, nearby at all. So
became no more group pub in NorthAmerica. And there's some more Bureau of
the count than the other brewery.Nice, so more pints. They were
doing their crushing pint sales, andthey really then you know, built it
up into taking full capacity. German, the German brewiser, Carl, He

(03:16):
was a great character. He was. He was always brewing on the kettles
we still have here today and justyou know, shouting in German. And
the character in the town loved himbecause he's hilarious. And then he unfortunately
he brought some recipes with him,some of which we still used today.
The half of the Merton that you'reyou're enjoining right now, some of those

(03:37):
are based on his recipes. Sokeep some traditions alive. And then in
the mid nineties, unfortunately he wasdeported. Oh yeah really yeah, so
I do not know that. Yeah, and that's why if you ever do
a brewery too, we have alot of trap doors, and that was
in case like immigration umber showup,he would slip out of trap door.
But he ended up trying to makea trip back home and to like clear

(03:58):
up some things and then they wantto let them back in. So so
I never saw the guy again.We almost got him back here in twenty
sixteen and we were going back andforth an email and unfortunately passed away like
a couple months before he was goingto make the trip. So but his
legacy spirit still lives on for sure. So yeah, a lot of great
like you know, law and historybehind the brand and suit working. You

(04:21):
know, Ryan and I got involved, you know, about twenty years after
they started. So what that twothousand and nine, and you know the
restaurant. My grandparents were older,so and my parents and are both our
parents. They didn't want to beinvolved in the brewery, right, Okay,
it's skipped a generation. So theirsuccession plan was like what's time to

(04:42):
close? You know what else theygoing to do, and so they sold
the restaurant to a separate operator.He had it for a ten year lease
starting in two thousand and six.But they kept on. They held on
at the brewery, and so wegot all really right before they were going
to shut the brewery doors. Weboth went to cal Poly Sandleis Bisiness,
but but we grew up in Davisaround the brewery. So we had all
these great memories. And then wewould we you know, we officially got

(05:04):
into i'd say working in the beerbusiness. Their beer festivals. Yeah,
because well we were down at CalPaul, we would you know, that's
when beer festivals were just starting totake off. So we would drive back
to the brewery, pick up hearand take it back. And then we
realized that every time we brought outsuit work there was some memory someone had
or like I met my wife there, I had my graduation there. There's
all this brand equity that like tooktwenty years to build that doesn't happen overnight.

(05:28):
And we also kind of the craftbeer boom was right about to write
about it. It's all good BryanSpecial appearance. Here we go, there
we go, right, nice shot. So it love the next part,
right, and then we growing upin town, it's like we didn't want
to see the hometown brewery close.You know, we wanted to bring it

(05:49):
back to that space of the ultimatecommunity gathering place that we experienced as growing
up as a kid, and youknow, just didn't want to see it
be gone. So we ended upgetting involved learning the business and raising money
and buying it in twenty thirteen withsome other family and local investors, and
it was a it was a bigdeal. I was a battle within itself.
Yeah, my grandpa passed away duringthat transaction, so we were left

(06:12):
doing his business partner, and atthat point in time, it was kind
of like, hey, let's putthis out to bid. So we ended
up having to go up against alot of breweries, some local names like
just so you know, it madeit, you know, I guess it
made us want it that much morebecause we're like, hey, we want
to make sure that you know,whoever gets it is going to represent the
community the way it should be.So we end up we were successful and
then immediately went towards a rebranding program. You know, the Suitor hadn't been

(06:38):
rebranded since the nineties. Yeah,I remember. Yeah, so I had
that real like authentic German looking feel. Yeah, very simple, very simple,
and a lot of it still saidsuits verg prebout browie hoops. Yeah,
so German privately operated brewery. Thatbrew is pretty beer. Yeah,
very pretty beer. Yeah, takingthe old school stuff, you are,

(06:58):
you are super tasty. We gotthe Marchston the Merton, Yeah, got
the on the Merton. Yeah.Yeah, got the half of vices,
half of its in, and thenwe got the Pilsner. Yeah, the
People's Pilsner here, so three ofthe super traditional recipes. Pilsner of course
been our it's our most it's ourbest seller still this day. Yeah.
Really, it's over half our volumeand it's our most awarded beer. We're

(07:19):
the Billboard. We did the Billboard. Yeah, yeah, the People's Pills.
Yeah, we've been hold on toobecause Gabf's coming up next month,
so that would be three in arow. So we're like we gotta just
in case. Yeah otherwise here Yeah, every time you do your group us
next, like I get paired nextto one Carlos a lot, we'll have
like our pilsner because like I choosethe beers, I want pilsner. Yeah,

(07:40):
and so we'll like have a littlecompetition and make people try. Yeah,
that's awesome. There you go friendlythough, Yeah, yeah, I
love a good local. Pilson's notgonna go wrong. Yeah. So but
yeah, then we rebranded from reallylike the import looking feel because that was
the whole marketing campaign, was America'sanswer to imported beers in the early nineties.
So we tried to tie it backto the community because we took over

(08:01):
a lot of people. I'd forgotit was brewed here and we would find
on the import shelf in town.Yeah that's from Germany. Okay, actually
twelve miles from right. I justI biked here from there, Okay.
And so we ended up rebranded tothe Bear on the bike, the California
Bear right in the higheeler the DavisCity Davis Local is the high wheeler.
Davis claims to be the bike capitalof the US, more bike lanes per

(08:24):
capital than any other city and supposedlybrought the bike lane over here from Europe
before another city. So yeah,it's a lot of bike floor bike Hall
of Fame in town. So wegot to have the bike in there,
and they'll put the California Bear sojust literally Davis, California. I should
have reached out to them, saidPaulina, A suit perfect, want us

(08:46):
to put it on, maybe cutthis out to be surprised. Yeah,
yeah, Brandon, I remember Mirandaput it on before her and Trevor got
married. I was at the StateFair Group US and then she's like the
suit that we have you someone Yeah. Yeah, she hopped in with part
of the part of the feel ofthat one too. It's never been washed.

(09:09):
Oh that's lower and not so much. Yeah. Yeah, to harvest
the Eastern Room beer. Yes,yes, I can't wait to see it
spoiled it. That's the that's therelease. That's the last beer we're trying
that. I was gonna tell youif you chased it very yea very local
erri berries. Yeah. We've broughta lot of different yeas. Yeah.

(09:31):
That was proprietary though, No,you can't one of them. Yeah,
absolutely one off. We got topreserve it for all just new propagated and
Paulina, you have a history withbeer and yeah, actually I think the
first came here during college. Itwas it dollar pint nights, like yeah,
Tuesday famous. Yeah, we havesome some nights, there's some Facebook

(09:56):
memories keep hopping up. I'm like, oh that was a time. Yeah,
but yeah, you know, I'vebeen drinking beer for a while something
old enough, but yeah, Imean this has always been one of my
go tosh. I love German style, like bloggers awesome. I like lighter

(10:16):
cell beers, especially now. Imean for a while, everyone goes through
the like what's the highest abb,what's gonna you know, you try to
get your money's worth and you're drunkand young and definitely know how to drink.
And then once you figure that out, they're like, no, I
want low ABB and like what canI drink more of and not get messed
up? Yeah? Yeah, let'srefreshing. Yeah, Like I don't want
to be like super impressive because youhave dodged the IPA bullets as much as

(10:39):
you can. I mean, it'strue we didn't brew a first IPA till
twenty nineteenth or thirtieth anniversary. Wow, at least our first like package commercially
available, which is a small town, hustle hazy ipa. Yeah, and
it quickly became one more better sellers. Like at a certain point in time,
we do listen to the customers,you know, but because we want
to stay in business, and wealso enjoyed drinking I pas, but suit

(11:01):
workit has been so devout and loggersfor so long. We wanted to carry
on these traditions. But we definitelyare dabbling, and we got a we
got a West coast now too,the regrowth, a double West coast,
the overgrowth. We're gonna make itlike a session or we got too many
hot not using the hot yeah exactly, but that one just took silver at
the state Fair last month, soI was kidding. We'll probably package that

(11:22):
in nineteen twos. Everyone's their nineteentwos. Now are they back to that?
Yeah? Right, like Calmore becauselike nineteen two is like the stove
pipe is like all sorry, they'reknown as tallboids and yeah yeah yeah,
the tall boy I feel like itto sixteen and then for a reason,
Oh you're right, yeah, butnow we're used to sixteens. Yeah,

(11:43):
the stove pipes. Yeah, butI mean that took off in Denver,
I mean a long time, fiveyears pre COVID. We're talking great out
oh yeah, and then to apoint where like even I talked to our
local he works for Berlin Franco,a great guy and I I pitched him
on nineteen twos are going to takeoff here, and he bought, he

(12:03):
ordered a truckload and they they didn'ttake off. They'll remind me that sometimes
sometimes I'll text him, Hey,I'm serious on nineteen two's Yeah, you
were just ahead of Yeah, wewere too far ahead for this market,
but now you need it. Usedto be like just uh oscar blues like
that if you go to a grocerystore. I worked a total white and
that was like the only nineteen twowe had. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

(12:24):
and it's kind of like it takesyou back to the twenty two ounce
and when that was popular. Yeah. Man, remember those value buy or
the quick like, hey, Ijust want to spend a couple of bucks
for that ten percent ABV. Ijust see one, yeah, you know,
and that's now the nineteen two andI think four packs are starting to
rain a little bit. Yeah,because you don't want the same beer.
You want yeah one of the beer. Yeah, And the shelves are so
full of them, it's like whichone I you know? And everyone has

(12:46):
great artwork now, so like it'sharder to different, very hard different.
Yeah, but artwork isn't the bestdetermination of good following exactly like everybody knows
name. Yeah, you know it'sgood. Yeah man, but have you
guys thought about making a nineteen pointeight nine ounce can that's the ticket?
Yeah, the ben size. Yeah, I don't know what I'm doing.

(13:09):
That's a big ben, the bigband, the big man. I like
it. Yeah, I like it. That's that's great. But that's London
though, and you get a trademarkthat now, that's true. I should
get in that. If I hadtrademark all my million dollar ideas, I'd
still be broke. But uh,anyway, as you family owned business,
yeah you got it, family friendowned you know, yeah, yeah,

(13:31):
but it came from your family.Yeah yeah, you parents like nothing of
course, because you never you wantto revolt against your parents. So you're
looking at your parents. Your parentsmade you exactly, it's in our DNA.
We can't help it. And theywere telling us not to do it,
which is even like, okay,that means we have yeah now I
have. Yeah, they just wantto do it more so, so yeah,
it was uh, you know,it was they're just like we just

(13:54):
were trying to find ways to tellour story that don't like uh you know,
in there because it's just so muchto it. It's it's been so
long too, and we've seen upsand downs at Craft, but just here
specifically, I mean, here comesto train. We do a promo when
the train goes by a dollar off. Go oh man. Yeah, so

(14:16):
good for sure, but no,so we but the restaurant was a big
part of the history, and thenit was something we didn't that didn't become
a part of our business deal.We about the breweries. They were separate,
and the person who owned the restauranthad a license to use the name
yeah, which was sud Work,right, and so we we like pretty

(14:37):
soon realized that he was having atougher financial time as rafter recession, and
so he wasn't able to invest inwhat he had just bought. And so
we're like, hey, we're almostlike your marketing team. So we went
out. We were just promoting suitWork brand and selling through distributors and driving
people back, you know, andthen at a certain point in time,
like, hey, this loading dock, it's full of trash. Why don't
we clean it up in a taproom, you know. And that was

(15:00):
in twenty i'd say eleven or twelve, Yeah, and that was like,
you know, it started as likea speakeasy like most of these brewery stories
today where the doors half open andpeople like what's going on in there?
And it's kind of kind I've neverhad a freaking beer out of a barrel.
You know, it gets you allfired up on what beer could be.
This is that story telling you howthe story exact, and then you're
meeting your drinking with the brewery andgetting the tour and all the all that.

(15:22):
It's a special thing because people wouldn'thave the courage to go knock on
that door exactly. Yeah, likeyou're one of the brave ones. Knock
on my door. We've been waitingfor you. You should play That's repeat.
Yeah. So so that became likemore successfully expected. He was driving
people in, we weren't doing thefood. He was doing the food right,

(15:43):
but at a certain point in time, it's a weird tim and when
his lease was almost up, heessentially started to pin the like the losses
that were happening on his watch onthe brewery because of the tap room,
when really it's like we were limitedoperation, limited hours, we didn't sell
food, and we were trying topop any time. Oh go next door.
We were only experimental beers. Yeah, we won't try to pill your

(16:04):
meriton. You go on the course, stuff go inside. So it really
was a symbiotic relationship. But ata certain point in time, I think
he thought that was kind of hisway of you know, pinning stuff on
us, and so he sued usand it was like a you know,
it was it was a huge bummer. We're like, yeah, what's going
on here? And then so itturned into like a long drawn out,
like three year process and learned youknow that you never want to go through

(16:27):
that again unless you're forced to,you know, because we're here trying to
bruin sell beer and be community orientedbusiness and then you get sucked into that
and it like changes your mindset,you know. So anyway, we went
through it all the way. Hepushed it all the way through, and
we went through, you know,and we won. So it was like
it was, you know, it'slike the judge like that's your business,
like not from fiction, so prettyclear. So that like the only the

(16:52):
bummer rod thatd took some windown ofour sales. Windcraft was like at it's
in my opinion, like it's kindof marketing peak, like from fifteen to
eight team, you know, butat the same time it gave us an
opportunity and look back at the space, say, hey, you know before
the landlord released it to somebody else, take a look. You know,
that's where we'll get in there andtalk to landlord and work a deal through
COVID and ended up buying the propertyand getting the loan and everything to renovate

(17:18):
and just completely do the space andtry and turn it back into what it
was in the sclory days of earlynineties. So that's you know, we're
talking three months we've been open,so yeah, super fresh. Yeah,
it's been awesome, hope. Yeah, thanks for coming to the opening.
Yeah, you're welcome. Thanks forinviting me, of course. Yeah yeah,
all right, we got to getinside. It's getting hot. Yeah,
it's hot. That's part one,everybody, we did it. Hey,

(17:44):
we're back for part two, Episodeone fifty me, which came I'm
looking at Hey, we've got anew special guest from Superprewing, right,
Pry. How's it going doing great? Great? Here, We've still got
pauline olivirus over here from pig bootsto site. And it was better even
to be presented Leonard Malting movie podcastwe did during COVID. Yeah, I'm
sure your host Ben Rice, forall the episodes I've done over the years.

(18:06):
All right, now we're gonna talkabout the present of superwork and beer
and ourselves. What's going on?I love it a lot. A lot's
going on. Seems like maybe there'sa little bit going on. Yeah,
yeah, well a lot's going on. And the kettles behind us one of
the beers that you guys are pickingup here the fun House. You can
get right into it. This isone of the newer beers we introduced.
I got the pills are still butcheers, Oh still the best seller.

(18:30):
So never had a style. Yeah, no pillser goes is a good balance
to sour beer like this one.So this is a sour kettle that we
do. It's our Funhouse series.It's something that we kind of drived out
of like some blindervices we were messingaround. Yeah, so we you know,
I think a lot of stuff wedo here is really seeped in some
of the German traditions. Obviously withthe core beers, but I think we've

(18:52):
used that foundation. That's something trendI really got excited about with the brewery
was not only do we make greatclassic loggers, but it was a great
foundation for us to really start experimentingon and so we started doing some hoppy
loggers, but alongside that we starteddoing some sour loggers. And this is
actually a sour logger. Use ourlogger east. We kettle sour and then
we age some passion orange, passionfruit orange and lava on it. So

(19:14):
it's it's our take on a Hawaiianpunch. Throw some hibiscuits in there as
well, give it the color.So we kind of wanted to give a
little bit of ode back to thatnostalgia of a kid in the summertime drinking
some Hawaiian punch when it's hot out, you know, And it's kind of
like, you know, our tipof hat to that direction, and I
think, you know, it kindof gets people excited about beer in a
little bit different way than like yourpills or your ipa. So someone doesn't

(19:36):
like the hops, doesn't like thattraditional like beer flavor, but there's still
beer and it's a different way ofbeing able to try it. So we
like it. It's one of theI would say, outside the pills are
has a cult following, and peoplereally gravitate to every release we do,
so every month come out with anew version of it, some different seasonal
fruits. So this is our summerversion that we got going right now.
Next one will be BlackBerry. Ifeel like sours and beers like in the

(19:57):
cellar are very good for like winedrinkers who want to get into beer kind
of that like ease into it insteadof jumping straight into like an I p
A. Which this kind of hasa little reminiscence of kind of like a
sweeter style wine. Yes, soit's always like that's kind of like that
transitional kind of beer. Definitely,it's a great like you said, like

(20:18):
a transition to a great way beerinto beer. I mean, you know,
it's all you always get the peoplethat are like I don't like beer.
It's like, okay, well whatbeers don't you like? And there
is beer. It's like, okay, well there's a wide amount of beer
here. And I almost like justkeep trying. You have to. You
can taste them, right, youdon't have to drink the ball, just
keep tasting them because there's there's somany different beers out there. You never
know even within style. If youhave different types of beers within style,

(20:41):
you can eye can be opened justfrom brewery to brewery or from different interpretation
interpretations. So this is one thatreally opens people's eyes. Like you said,
like you know, your typical,your wines, your I don't like
beer. I only like wines,like, oh, give a sour beer
a taste and a kettle sours aregreat too because they're not overly acidic,
right, and it's kind of likenice blend and balance between the suit and
the sour soliarities that you want outof that lunar vice as well. Yes,

(21:06):
yeah, exactly exactly. I thinkthat that was the challenge with the
beer too, is they're kind ofdowal in that balance, you know.
I think something that we do withall of our beers goes through a lot
of iterations and a lot of piloting. We have three different brew systems here
from about fifteen gallon system to thissystem right here that this is a Gaspari
Shultz system. This is the originalcopper system from Germany where all the beers

(21:30):
originally made, and it started innineteen eighty nine and then ninety five we
built a commercial brewery and we havea steinkerbrew hoss back there that's about a
sixty barrel system, and then wehave some Muller fermentation tanks, unique tanks
that we can fermat longer and thoseare one hundred and twenty barrels, so
a much larger system. This isabout a twelve barrel system, so we
get you know, about twenty halfbarrel cakes or so out of this yield

(21:52):
typically depend on what styles we're doing. We have open bathtub for menners right
behind us too, so that's awhole different ball game as well. Yeah,
so that's a lot of fun,and we we do brew right now.
There's heaf fits in there and ithas a really vigorous fromentation profile.
Some shots, yeah, we'll gocheck those out too, or you have
seen some shots. Maybe I haven'tcut it. We don't know. It's

(22:15):
looking it's looks good. It's reallyyou can see the vigorous romtation, especially
with the hef yeast over there.So we have our own proprietary helf east
Strand that we got from UCD alumni. It's a good partner of ours and
he has a collection of he's Thiswas his favorite Bavarian heaf East, and
he said, give us a try, see what see what happens. And
we tried it out and we getit just as I was talking about,

(22:36):
has had such a real vigorous andestuary profile to it in terms of how
it was fermenting, and really gotsome nice kind of more stone fruit notes
out of it. You get somemore of that clove spice, you get
less of the bubblegum banana in it, and it's something that we really liked
and also a little bit lighter mouthfeelingit too. So those those open fermenters
kind of have some nice nuances theyget expressed in the beer that are fun

(22:59):
to, fun to taste to messaround with. So yeah, yeah,
And Paulina, what are you gogot going on in your beer world?
I know you very involved in thePink Boots. Yeah, so Pink Boots.
We do have the first part ofour hot blend coming up on Monday
or in the past, or italready happens. Maybe we're gonna be at
Moon Baker at the new facility.So basically we are going to be sniffing

(23:25):
some Yakima Chief hops and choosing ourfavorites and kind of creating our own little
Blend. Uh, then that's gonnago up to national. Everyone every chapter
is doing this and then this eventuallywill become the blend for the collaboration to
beer next year, which I thinkyou guys should I think you are doing.
We would love to do it again. Say that hop Blend last year
was awesome like that. We madea pale out of it and it's one

(23:47):
of my favorite beers we made allyear. So you guys are doing some
good hot pick and I'll tell youthat it should be fun. Yeah,
it's always like the biggest part ofPink Boots is the collaboration Brutettes. It's
like the busiest time of year forus do whatever. They gets all volunteer
work and we're like coordinating with allthese breweries and all these people to show
up and so it's a lot.But we're maybe we're experimenting with some fun
ideas right now, maybe for likea passport for people. Okay, next

(24:11):
year, we're working out some logistics, so bear with us, but we
want to do some fun stuff,make a little more interactive, make people
want to go to all the breweriesparticipating. I think we had eleven breweries
this year. We're hoping to rampthat up. So if you work for
a brewery and you want to dosome cool stuff, let me know.
Yeah, you know, because there'slike eighty of them. Yeah, so
maybe eighty. Yeah, so maybewe just like, I don't know,

(24:33):
multiply that number by seven, yeah, seven eleven? Is that? Okay?
Seven times eleven? I don't Idon't know, right, we got
it. It's worthy it. It'sa lot of fun. We enjoyed every
year. We look forward to itkind of kicks off like beer season,
you know, like, yeah,I mean, if you guys are free
Monday round four, want to comeout to Moonraker, we have to be
I think we can make that work. Yeah, thank you for them.

(24:55):
Yeah, I love it. Ilove it. Yeah. Pop selection process.
Yeah, and then what is yourofficial title with pimpoons right now?
Because I know you've grown through theranks. Co leader right now. So
we do elections. We try togive everyone a chance. We do like
two year kind of stints in eachposition. I did my two years.
We did elections, and nobody's signedup for a chapter leader, so we're

(25:17):
kind of sharing it. It's meand a few of the other leadership members.
So I think I'm just kind ofthe mascot right now. Okay,
Yeah, so I'm still you know, helping plan things, but stepping back
a little bit, giving people alittle more chance to step in. I
don't want to do everything control everything, right, No, it's not a

(25:37):
dictatorship, I don't know, justlike you have to like, hey,
you're going to do this part.You can't take it and conquer. Yeah,
I've heard when you bought the place, you thought, oh, I'm
going to do this, and theneventually you just like, oh, I
can't do all of that. Yeahexactly. There's a lot that goes into
making you a glass apper. Yeah, and I made some beer at home,
but like when you started making youra professional, that's a whole new
ball game. So we realize prettyquickly that pros handle that, and you

(26:00):
know, there's a lot of effortgoes and just letting people know about the
beer making and you know, keepingeverything going. So yeah, we hear
you, Yeah exactly. And thenalso what you guys do you guys pair
with UC Davis not only for youradvice and niche, but also for several
other things. Yes, yes,you say, it has been a great
resource for us and a great partner. I mean, they have their Master

(26:21):
Brewing program their classroom on the backsideof our brewery, so it's an extension
program that you can go go throughthe Master Brewin certification through. And then
they have their undergraduate program that wework with and do an Iron Brew competition
every year where all the students brewa beer, they get internet competition and
the winning beer gets scaled up andbrewed here and a Porter one this year

(26:41):
and that's failable as well. Itwas a great beer. And then we
also do a year round a hazyI pay form called the gun Rock I
p A. That's the beer youhave right here in front of you,
and it was a yeah, along time entertainment. US Davis has one
of the top brewing programs in theworld, and you know, they really
wanted a beer to help like showcaseand let people know about all the great

(27:06):
things around beer that are happening here, and so we were able to work
with them to get a beer made. The other proceeds go back to the
university and it really helps get theword out by not only their broom program,
about the university as a whole andreally build that spear and camarade around
the university, and so yeah,it's gone through different iterations over the years.
Started out as a logger style beer, and then as as IPA became

(27:27):
more popular, they wanted something thatyou know, is a little bit more
kind of I guess relevant in termsof the styles that are people are looking
forward. So we've developed a hazyipa for them and it's been off to
the races ever since and we'll probablystart going back to the drawing board.
I mean we every time we workwith this beer, it's we work with
the students, who work with thefaculty, with the professors, with the

(27:48):
alumni, and really try to beas inclusive as everyone really represent the whole
U stay of his community. Soyeah, we're on and to be able
to brew it and something that wecherish, and it's always over on tap
here as well as and you're likein Davis local market yeh in cans.
So yeah, yeah, I mean, if you're going to be supporting Davis
Sports, you need an aggressive beardand match up with the aggressive sports.
The aggressive yeah hazy ip Yeah,it's a nice smooth finish still, but

(28:14):
you know you still get all thehops you can chew on there so also
made the rookie mistake comparing a sourwith an I p a. Yeah,
it's not getting in, but thatwe get you a palate cleansing pills there
in between. Yeah, I'm notgonna bears do as I'm drinking like,
I'm like, well a lot ofI a few. It might be a
few since there, Yeah, tearit out, but yeah, I mean

(28:36):
there's so much going on at anyone time here. It's good work.
And also you've expanded out to thisrestaurant. We talked a lot about the
previous restaurant, but now you havean actual restaurant here, owned by sud
Work, operated by sud Work.Yes, yes, it was quite an
undertakes trying to allude it to it'sbeen you know, it started out as
a brewpup since in nineteen eighty nineand then in two thousand and six,
and we thought the restaurant are propriorin the in the Bay Area, and

(29:00):
so during that time when Trent andI came in and took over the brewery
and bought it and really started focusingon the beer, but we didn't really
have any ability to really put ourhands on the food aspect or at least
just like what we look at therestaurant as like our hospitality, this is
we're trying to showcase the best ofour beer, the best of our brewery
to any one in the area that'scoming to experience it. So we want

(29:22):
to really be able to deliver thathere on site. And what we did
with the DOC was try to likewe talked like Trent was talking about,
we tried to open up the breweryand invite the community in show them what
we're doing. You know, it'snot we were more than just you know,
our pills there and our classic beers. We have a lot of innovation
and creativity going on here behind thescenes. We want to showcase that,
and that's what the doc let usdo. And then once the community started

(29:42):
coming in, we realized this isa great way to really connect with them
and we wanted to be able todo that on a bigger scale. And
so when we won the lawsuit ofthe restaurant, realized, you know,
really, if we wanted to beyou know, really do our brand,
our beer justice, we had tocreate the ultimate experience on site with it.
So that's really what our restaurants here. We went out on a local
chef that is northern California guy thatreally had the passion about food that we

(30:03):
have about beer. We thought,you know, we've been trying to make
the best beer possible and we've beenlucky to win some metals recently for our
pills and other beers, but wewanted some food at least be at the
same level of that. You know. It's like it was always like,
hey, come to the sut ofwork and for the beer, and the
food's like it's all right, youknow, but the beer is really great.
It's like, no, we wantto come because you don't have a
great experience. Great food, greatpeople, great service, and great beer.

(30:27):
Right, and make sure that foodmatches what you're drinking exactly. Everything
like that, you nail it.And that was the next step. It's
not just about having great food,but how do they synergistically go together where
you can really have a great diningexperience with you know, I have a
lot of family in Germany. It'sinteresting they don't drink They don't drink wine
with food. They drink beer withfood because they're like, hey, we
drink wine when we socialize or whatever. Usually not drinking as much in terms

(30:49):
of liquid. You know, we'retalking, so we'll have some wine.
But when we're drinking beer, thewine is also hiring avv hire usually more
intense flavors so overpower some of thefood, where here's a little more nuanced
and more subtle. So it reallycompliments food nicely. And really wanted to
showcase that with all of our beersand you know, our beers, we
try to keep that balance between youknow, the bitterness of the hawks,

(31:11):
the sweetness of the malts, andtry to create that kind of three dimensional
characteristic where it's enjoyable from first hipto last ship. And that really tends
to having a great dining experience anda great you know, drinking experience.
And so our chefs his name isTroy Lockwood, and he's been doing a
great job just really going around tothe local scene, try to partner up
with local farmers. I mean,we're in the bread basket of the US

(31:33):
here in northern California. I mean, we have so many great farmers and
great for bears around us that we'retrying to really highlight that here. So
really is trying to highlight the bestof the community through our food in showcase,
you know, the best of ourbeer with that. So it's been
a lot of fun and every daywe're trying to get better at it,
and so we hope that people comeout and you know, have a have
another chance to dine with us.I know there's been a lot of people

(31:55):
over the years that had great experienceshere and it's been a little more in
that traditional German fair, i'd say, you know, we try to bring
out some highlights of that, tryto bring some odes to it. We
have like a schnitzele and we havea beard big Bavarian pretzel. But also
we try to also keep it youknow fresh, keep it uh. You
know, we have a little moreof a gastro pub element to a little

(32:15):
more farm the table, uh seasonalmenu. You know, food's changing every
quarter, so trying to highlight what'swhat's in season as well as you know,
have a variety for everyone. Youknow, one thing we recognize in
our community is that there's a lotof different people who live here. We
have students, we have you know, faculty and professors, we have researchers,
we have families, we have youngprofessionals. You know, we have

(32:37):
travelers and visitors. We didn't realizethat reads in retire reas. Yeah,
we have them all, you know. And and so with that, you
got to be able to really providea little bit of everything for everyone.
So really trying to do that anddo it all really well. So yeah,
we're excited. It's been a lotof fun. And you know,
it's only been a few months sincewe've been open running, but in terms
of the restaurant, but we're excitedto you know, be welcome everyone back

(32:57):
in again. So thank you forcoming out and doing this. Yeah,
yeah, I'm super happy for it. So that's kind of your present heres.
We kind of like bringing back thecommunity aspect. We're making sure that
everybody's represented. Everybody's got to singynenjoy food, drink or other. Making
sure people are available coming out.Now let's talk about the future somewhere else.
Yeah, let's do it. Yeah, we got some more shows.
What's coming down the pipe? Talkabout it like a filter like transition.

(33:27):
All right out here. Hey,we're back for part three here at SUPERB
Episode one. I'm still your host, Ben Rice from Me Podcast with Me,
my special guest Paulino Lavirus from theBig Boots Society. Now we've got
Ryan and Trent from super Work hereand then we've got a secret special guest

(33:47):
Chris White from White East Labs.One Labs happened to be around. I
mean, how do you not say, Chris, do you want to sit
down for a second to talk aboutthe future of beer? Sounds great?
I love sud work, So it'sgreat seeing you here and jump it in.
Yeah, absolutely, thanks so muchfor doing it. All right,
So this topic, we're going todiscuss the future of soud work, of

(34:08):
beer, of ourselves as human beings. So I guess Ryan and Trent we'll
kick it off with you obviously.Where do you see Sudwork progressing in the
next couple of years and where yousee beer going? So I see it
going where we are, where we'vejust you know, just reopening the space.
I think beer's going to get backto more in person, more personal,

(34:30):
more hospitality focus. I think brewerieswe learned we were doing it,
you know, kind of a lotof breweries had a food truck focus.
We've taken that in house and we'retrying to raise the level of beer quality
and we've built a great legacy andbeer, but now we're trying to build
a similar legacy and food and hospitality. So I think giving people the best
possible experiences on site is going totranslate to anything we're doing out in the

(34:52):
marketplace. And it's a crowded marketfor sure right now. And I think
finding the right path. We talkedabout about the nineteen two so finding those
nineteen nine, yeah, the yearwe started that. That's a great idea.
So I think find ways to becompetitive in that. Continue to focus
on beers that work, like Pilsner. Our best seller Great Yeast coming from

(35:15):
White Labs as well, so Iappreciate that. But yeah, just I
think trying not to do too much. I think consumers are overwhelmed, too
many options, too many flavors outthere. So we're trying to get back
to the basics, the fundamental,So keep pushing that. Pilsner's part of
our long term. Speaking of gettingback to the basics, seems like we've
got three pills on the table.We do the proper Pilsner glass killing it.

(35:37):
I've got a West Coast i PAand a barrel edged apple box.
For some reason, you know that'sthe future for beer. Barrel edged dapple
box. Everyone's doing it. Everybody'sdoing it. I've got the Queen's Cup
because pink boots, pink on,pink on, pink, hell pink and
a backpacks pink. I'll pink everything. Not because of Barbie. Yeah,
it's always He's been like this fora Yeah. I think. I do

(36:02):
think that the community aspect is definitelywhere beer has been going for a while.
I think the idea of like aregional brewery is even hard to do,
let alone a national brewery. ButChris, you're dealing with everybody across
the nation. What are you seeing? Interesting question? You know, we
are seeing what student work sees andsome other things. That distribution is very

(36:25):
competitive, very difficult, very expensive, and people have started ordering I PA
instead of a brand, you know, or Palel, So it's even harder
for your brewery to stand out whenpeople are ordering the style. And then
there's also a growth in the alternativebeverage, yes, the non beer alcohol

(36:51):
space, and brewers can make someof those things that started with seltzers,
which is nice. Ciders have beenaround and may be a renewed interest.
But you know, it's going tobe interesting to see how many small breweries,
how many small craft breweries, canchange to address that The Brewers Association
said earlier this year that they expectthirty percent of craft of the of the

(37:19):
craft beer category to be alternative beverage, and so breweries need to think about
the ciders, the high gravity seltzersmaybe or something that hasn't been invented yet
created yet to grow, not tostay in business. And beer's not going
away. Seventy percent still being beer, and then it will come back as

(37:42):
young people move back to beer,to craft beer and bigger beers. But
if you want to the next decadeof growth in super interests, it seems
like you do need to reach outto that thirty percent. And the Bride
Associations say the breweries craft beeries noware only making two percent of alternative beverage.
I look at our own White levesBury. We have a little brewery
to be open to the public andwe're about zero, even though we make

(38:04):
the organisms for the alternative beverages.So I think it's going to be interesting,
and you know, we'll see.But I think the last thing I'll
say about that is what's driving thatalternative. It's young people. They want
non alcohol or high alcohol, I'mwhat I see, and they also want
low calorie, and that's something craftbeer has never been able to provide a

(38:28):
low calorie, flavorful community solution,and I think the challenge might be,
what can the craft beers create thatthat that appeals to people that want a
lower calorie. Where West Coast began, the reason West West Coast i PA
was successful across the country was tworow malt, you know, dryer fermentation

(38:52):
with hot flavor, but actually alower calorie a carbohydrate component. And the
the world is the younger people aresaying that's what they want. Yeah.
I think you also spoke about thenon alcoholic version, and I think the
future of craft beer is to havethat because part of the community aspect is

(39:12):
giving them a place to come andnot be pressured to drink these high octane
beers. I mean, you cangive them a water for free, or
you can give them a non alcoholicbeer for six bucks. I mean,
which one do you want to do. There's so many breweries I go into
and ask for a non alcoholic beerbecause I've been paying attention since December.
My brother Mike's been doing exclusively nonalcoholic beers. It's really been a fun

(39:35):
discovery. And so many breweries sayno, they don't have any or you
know, they don't buy anybody else's. And I think we're gonna that's just
an example. We're gonna have topay attention to that because one reason the
young consumer is drinking it is it'snot oduals. It's not just like a
rebirth of this multi suite thing.It's a new generation of athletic and other
excellent, low non alcoholic beers thatare lower carbohydrate, lower cal providing that

(40:00):
need but also tasting like beer andin giving another option, Yes, why
sell the water, why sell asoda? Don't be against this. I
think let's let's embrace it and makeit. That's what I think too.
I'm like, I just I'm shockedat how few places make it and like
they actively scoff at it. I'mlike, this is literally your margins.

(40:22):
What are you doing? Yeah,there are people that come with their friends
who don't drink and like, hey, try a beer. It's not going
to get you drunk. There's alsoa misunderstanding I think about laws. I've
been told at someboders, Oh,we can't legally sell that, we can't
buy it because we don't can't sellthe people's beer. It's it's not t
TV regulated, you do, everybodywould buy it, right, But it's

(40:43):
there's a lot of it's so new, there's a lot of misunderstanding. I
think it's a lot of people don'tknow how to make it too. They're
scared to use the resources and fail, and then it's a waste of product
and time. And so I mean, I know locally like oak Park,
Touchstone, they're doing it, BarylBrothers out in a area, but usually

(41:05):
it's more like someone makes a hotwater versus an actual non alcoholic beer.
Yeah, it's been on R andD list for three or four years now,
and I think, yeah, Iwas listening to an interview of the
old master brewer Guinness, and thatis his prediction. I think four years
ago was non alcoholic beers. Ithink we're seeing it become more and more
popular. It's just not a segmentenough to have a vible business around.

(41:29):
So I think that's the ch hardestproduct of a brewer is figuring out how
do we make this but still,you know, not lose money on it.
It's like if you could sell hotwater and that's a little bit easier
to make, then I think that'swhere people are going. But I mean
we see that there's a growing demandthere and I think, you know,
even with like the lower calorie stuff. I mean, we came out with

(41:49):
the lower calorie hazy IPA last yearand people come and they try it,
they love it, but they don'tif it says local, they don't want
it. But they want it tobe local. They you know, they
want to be more of a lifestylebrand that is lowcwe that kind of fits
in their lifestyle, makes them kindof like look cool per se versus maybe
like checks off all the boxes theywant on the label. So that's that's

(42:10):
our biggest challenge is figuring out howto like present these beers to the customer
where they understand what they're getting orthey want it, but also where they're
willing to actually purchase it. SoI think our challenges is always to figure
out, you know, when's theright time for some of these beers to
come out. I guess that'd leastso a good question, do you need
a different brand name to like sellthese like lower alcohol, lower calorie things.

(42:31):
People don't they can tell this isgoing to be what I think it
is. Yeah, Yeah, Imean I'm seeing a lot more like light
bloggers, Like everyone's starting to kindof do that more. I think that's
kind of there needs to be likea buzzword or trendy one where like if
you're in the know, you knowwhat that means. But not that it's
like like it's a light calorie.You know, you need like a coded

(42:54):
word, need a craft version ofmarketing. Yeah, yeah, and I
think the craft in come up withthose words. I mean, I was
just working on a new Yeast bookthat I mostly wrote the last one ten
years ago with Jamil Santa, chefhere at sud Works. So we kind

(43:14):
of started working on this new bookand we were just talking yesterday about how
many new things in the last tenyears East implementation related. So it's hard
to at the moment go like,oh, there's all this new stuff,
but if you look back, likethere's so much stuff we didn't even write
about yet as has happened, andso there's so many new things that can
come out, And that's how we'regoing to stay growing, you know,

(43:38):
That's how we're going to stay relevantto the young person. When I say
young, I mean twenty one toyou know, twenty five. Yeah,
you know, that's that's like Americancraft, that's American beer segment. When
I started getting this inistory thirty someyears ago, that's what they always talked
about a twenty one to twenty fiveyear olds. I had no idea how
much of an impact it would actuallymake in craft too, because they still
drive craft, yeah, and rightnow they're not coming to it as much.

(44:00):
So you got to find a wayto get him back into it,
and whether that's through education or likesomething rebranding of craft brings in Also,
like other demographics that aren't really forcraft beer, like you know, women,
people of color, Like, it'sjust there's so many untapped areas and

(44:22):
it shouldn't be just out of amarketing aspect like oh, we want your
money. It should be like,well, we want everyone to draw our
beer. We need to find away to reach out to everyone, because
it's not just for one type ofperson. It's not just for guys with
beer, not just for you guys. But yeah, there needs to be

(44:45):
some way. And I know thatevery like every like conference has some sort
of panel about how to reach thesepeople. But I think it's the authenticity
of actually wanting to and actually engagingwith these so instead of just like doing
a broof est, like you pairup with the organization and like you know,

(45:06):
bring people in that normally wouldn't cometo your brewery. Yeah, totally.
Yeah, I'm just having a conversationwith somebody the other day. It's
like, oh, I'd love toopen a bar, but I can't do
it where you live because like blackpeople don't drink beer, Like, yes
they do. The absolutely do.Crown and Hops makes the whole shirt of
it. Yeah, like it's absolutely. You just got to find them or
like they find you, whichever oneis, you know, and like make

(45:27):
sure that they feel not rejected therebecause you got to watch your customer based
unfortunately how they're interacting. But yeah, I think it's not that hard.
I think because beer has so manyflavor profiles, it's really just fitting the
flavor. Like it's like what anybody, you just go, hey, what
do you usually drink? What kindof flavors do you enjoy? And we've
got a beer for you boom rightthere. You know, I've seen that
happen in Asia where craft breweries havebeen opening and doing great for a long

(45:52):
time, and there's a lot ofbeer sold in China and Japan and Thailand
and elsewhere, and craft is peopleare trying to start craft brewer because their
their community, their fun companies towork with. But the question has always
been how to sell to more localsversus just the foreigners living in place.
And so we have a white labsin Hong Kong to bring East in and

(46:13):
move around. And there's a HongKong brewery that was in the normal areas
with all the tourists and foreigners,and they decided to put a tap room
in the middle of the most youknow, Chinese community and see what happens
monkawk and people responded, they came, they drank beers and what what I
was What was interesting story from thatwas everything sells equally there. There are

(46:37):
no other tap rooms in the otherareas. You know, I p A's
number one, pale ale, butthey're in the community that had less knowledge
of the different beer styles. Everybodyjust bought. They bought a picture of
barley one or a stout, sothey were selling sort of equally everything.
Because it was a fascinating story.Yeah, oh boy, that's a that's

(46:59):
a question from the past for me. I was gonna I was wondering because
I mean, it seems like aspeople start to spend more time with beer,
they start to gravitate towards certain styles. And it seems like if you
look at the majority of beer broodin the world, it's you know,
it's a lighter logger, and thennow with like crap beer, it's i
PA dominates craft beer, right,So I mean those are kind of more
popular styles out there that as youdrink more beer, get older, you

(47:22):
seem to gravitate towards Do we seethat change? I mean that's been happening
for generations, right, So,Like I think it's like it's always new
to discover new stuff, brings peoplein. There's a lot of variety,
but it seems that at some pointgets funneled back to these primary styles And
is that is that really going tochange going forward? I mean, I
think everybody has their progress as abeer drinker. Like I started with Belgians

(47:45):
and like flavored stouts as far asthat goes, because I think that's recognized
as a coffee flavor and like thesweet that you kind of get from candy
and then you kind of hate Ip as right, then you learn then
you learn to love them, andthen you're like, no, I just
want a logger. I think that'skind of the natural progression as you get
through the craft industry and like gettinginto it. So I think you're always

(48:07):
going to see that boom of likeonce you get into it, you get
into it, right, So Ithink there's like a small time where you're
drinking those more flavorful, weirder beers. I guess, yeah, well,
maybe we're all making too much funof those other beers anymore too, and
so we're impeding the starter beer process. Yeah, Like I started with multi

(48:27):
sweet beers and ambers and stuff,and that was for years before I discovered
beers with hops, and it wasa progression to go like man pale ales
and I pas. But you know, you don't give that progression because now
we want to make fun of thosethings, just like winemakers made fun of
people made fun of red zin andthey lost that whole category, yeah,
which was a big seller. Somaybe we need to think about the starter

(48:50):
beer. Yeah, I did too, kind of category again, And I
think that's one of the great thingsabout sud work is that you have those
lying around just as part of howyour operation works. Like you like bananas,
right, you smoke clothes at onepoint. You know we've all done
it. Yeah, you get thatsweet merchant like there's so many things that
you can do, and like you'resaying, yeah, just like, don't

(49:13):
make I think beer culture has gonefairly toxic. I think, uh,
what a telling laugh. But butI think you know, I used to
be one of those beer bros,right, and I'm like, you know,
I don't need to be an assholeabout this, like, just like
what you like. I just wantpeople to enjoy beer. Yeah, exactly
as we always say. It's likeI want you to drink what you like.
You know, it's like you don'tyou don't have to like my beer.

(49:35):
Yeah, it's okay, but wantyou to enjoy what you're drinking.
Here, We'll find one of ourbeers you like, I'll promise you.
But yeah, and even some ourdistributors were meeting when earlier, a lot
of them are just now trying craft. You would think people that work for
a beer distributor have tried all thebeers, but even they get stuck in
their ways and what you know,their company sells the most of which a
lot of times light Logger and thenyou see them experienced craft for the first

(49:58):
time, or a style like oneof the I never had a sour and
he tries the fun out. Wellthat's like a for him, like a
gateway beer into what sours or otherbear styles could be. So there's tons
of people out there just like them. So what we're doing is their job's
not even close to done, youknow. It's like we're just getting started
and just you know, letting peopleexperience something new through beer. Yes,

(50:22):
I think for some people, likecraft beer seem so pretentious, Like there's
that stereotype of like some guy likejudging your beer and like you know,
and those type of guys never actuallybeer judges like they have they're not even
sister. It's like, yeah,type of people are like the worst.
If you go to a brewery andsomeone's judging your beer choice, don't listen

(50:43):
to them. That's the worst typeof person. Oh, there's worst people.
That's the worst type of person.Like sitting at a table, it's
just you know, everyone's gonna people. There's a place for Stella for blue
Moon, Like we've all done it. Yeah, we've all done it,
and I'll do it again. Well, they have brewers. You know,
the big breweries have the marketing sidethat we all know of and see every

(51:06):
day. But from what we workwith also, I see the brewers and
they're just like everybody out They're likethe home brewers or like the craft birds.
They're just a small number of peoplein those companies. So but they're
trying their best too. And Ithink one of the things those large beeries
have done is folks, I mean, the top selling beers in the United

(51:28):
States are you know, cors Light, Miller Light, bud Light in different
orders, but for decades, wellI guess not for decades. I've only
been around for a few years.Like, is this the year the logger
and craft beer? And it neveris? But West Coast is coming,
like hazes were dominant for too long, for too long, and finally,

(51:51):
like you know, clear beer ismaking your comeback. So I think once,
yeah, the clearest local topple back. Yeah, Like even with our
purper collapse, like the last threefour years, it was like everyone was
doing it hazy and I loved whenbrews like did something different with it.
And then this year we finally hada bunch of West Coasts. Yes,

(52:14):
So I think I think I atleast what I'm seeing when I'm out is
like lower abb clear beer. SoI'm hoping that like just slides right into
the logger the piller like something.It also could be the stout. I
was at a beer festival last weekand I saw a West Coast stout and
you know what it did. Itcaught my attention, right, but my

(52:37):
attention, And it caught my attention. And they tried to hop it to
a you know, a West coastyou know, seventy IBus ish. They
they they fermented very dry one anda half one point two playto something like
that, and it was very drinkableand very delicious. And I thought,

(53:00):
and it caught my attention even justthe naming. It's not new naming,
but it's new name naming in adifferent way of an old thing. And
that kind of stuff can work.And they and it also showed me they
sort of made something on purpose todo to taste a certain way, and
it first out I had in awhile. Yeah, And I think that's
the one thing that craft has isjust being nimble with like categories, right.

(53:23):
I mean, as much as beerfester like, it's not the style.
Are we done? With this,yet we're all creative individuals and so
we got into it for us tomake what we wanted to make. Competition,
yeah, and and they and theyadd categories obviously and things like that,
and they have like more wiggle room. But I think but it's like
cold I p A has had likea moment like I remember I PLS.

(53:45):
I remember i PL Yeah, yeah, and speaking if I PLU kind of
kings of the game. Yeah,we were. We were ahead of that
market for sure, and you're stilldoing It's kind of a warm idea.
We I mean, we've talked aboutit because it's similar to what we've done.
But I think a lot of timesthat with our it's great to you
say the year of the Logger andbecause that's like I almost feel like a

(54:07):
lot of times we were too farahead of the curve. You know,
sometimes you got to let the biggercompany spend the marketing dollars to get the
word out about the style. Butlike to Chris's point, he's all about
innovation, and we're doing our bestto foster that because like you know,
it's the whole. If you createthe market, there's no competition there for
a minute until someone else catches up. So if you're constantly playing that game

(54:28):
though too, you know, yougotta be careful. So it's fine that
that balance, you know. Yeah, it's innovation and history and like tradition,
Like your grandfather could have sat arounda table in nineteen ninety six and
said, loggers are going away,we better change our focus, and then
you wouldn't have loggers when it's backpopular again. Right. Yeah, So
maybe what you did, you guyswhen you came in, you you introduced

(54:51):
ales into your loger stream and ithelped you sell you know, more pillsner
because people noticed you. Again.Yeah, maybe that could happen the nineties,
but you've got to be careful aboutlike, go, okay, it's
going away, right, And that'sthat's so easy to do when you're sitting
around a boardroom, right, likeyep, let's let's rebrand ourselves. We're
not a logger brewer anymore. Butnow you wouldn't be where you are today

(55:12):
for sure. Yeah. Yeah,And I just want to shout out the
amber that you had. I almostgot it for this portion, all right,
because it's UC Davis, Yes,collaboration plus Oak Park Brewing. Yeah,
yeah, I mean delicious. It'sa delicious beer. Awesome, just
tell you watch it at home,drink that beer. Yeah, pub only
they have their version on tap.We have and we both have a guest.

(55:35):
We're both handles on. I believethey are so I think so.
Yeah, awesome. I don't knowif you guys are still making this one
or if you plan on continue tomake it with the three best friends.
Yeah we did. We didn't.We bring it back for sure last year.
Yeah, and we might be bringingit back out. That was a
that was a imperial dunkle. Itwasn't as big as a doppel Block,
and we would logger it with coffeevanilla and coco nibs, and it tastes

(56:01):
a lot like an ice coffee,kind of ice latte coffee. It wasn't
too overwhelming. It's very nuanced inthose flavor profiles all really well together.
And that was a great beer.I gotta get the PG thirt I fucking
love that beer. I loved thatbeer. Followers behind it and they keep
very vocal. That's what keeps bringingit back. And it's one of those

(56:22):
unique beers like I've never I can'teven imagine this in my head, like
you're like, oh, but youcan because coffee yeah together very nicely.
And you know, it's something thatlike Chris was mentioned, like we we
saw the logger opportunity here where there'sthis great logger foundation we could experiment with.
And that was one of the firstexperimentations we do. It was like,

(56:43):
all right, let's let's start.We had a dapple Bop, we
had a Dunkehole. Let's let's startbringing some adjuncts there. They already had
these coffee and chocolate notes and Vanilla'sexpress some a little bit more. You
know what happens we bring them intolike the cold side, and you know,
I think we were doing the samewith you know, the logger with
I like I p ls, youknow, like we we thought, like
the logger platforms a great platform andbring in late edition hops really give a

(57:05):
lot of those aromatic hop characteristics,but reduce that bitterness so it can be
a little bit more sessionable. That'swhat really we try to do with our
loggers. Were off the bat,we started doing like a dry hop logger,
started doing an ip L. Youknow, these things that weren't really
even coined at the time, andall of a sudden now they're kind of
common in the industry, and soI think, you know, we're having
a lot of fun still pushing thatlog Like we talked about earlier, we

(57:27):
had a sour logger. I mean, that's that funhouse is using our logger
yeast, and so you know,I think you know, going forward,
what we do see those is thatsession ability. I think we always try
to do, even with like thebarelyzed dppabock that you're trying, I mean
that was a nine percent beer,but we try to keep the balance there,
right, and try to keep thatbalance in all of our beers.
And I think that's where I thinkthe market also is going towards where there's

(57:50):
a little more balance between the flavorprofiles and beer, and with that comes
a little more session ability you canenjoy, you know, a few more
glasses of it. I think theabvs are starting to come down. I
think people do want the higher VPwhen they first get into it, and
they kind of want to feel thebeer. They want the extremists, right,
they want to know the different characteristicsof beer. Where can beer go?
And then they're like, all right, beer went a little far from
me. I need to step itback. You know, I think that's

(58:12):
where I've seen a lot of themarket go. It's trying to step back,
and I think that's where we're startingto see some of our newer beers
come out a little bit more andlike you know, you know, four
to five percent ABV, a littlebit more nuanced and hop expression or with
some of the other flavor profiles thatwe're playing around with. So I think,
you know, with that and itallows you to have a drinking and

(58:34):
experience that is a little more sessional. You can converse a little bit longer
with whoever you're drinking with, alittle more community oriented. And I think
that's something that Tren and I havealways been excited about and we've always gravitated
the industry around it is that camaraderiewhere it does bring people together. We
always thought, we always said thatbeer was like the anti Facebook or the
real Facebook. Right, you're notsitting at home drinking beer online like by

(58:55):
yourself typically, right, Usually you'rehaving a beer at a table with friends
and family or whatever, and itbrings people together. You've come face to
face with people that beer, right, And that was something that we feel
like, I think after COVID theindustry is really you know, harnessing trends
of that hospitality, that community,bringing people back together. And I said,
the very least, no matter whatstyles are being drunk. I think
that's you know, something that we'reexcited about the market continue to grow into.

(59:19):
So sorry if that rant, that'sgood. It's well rounded round.
Yeah, it's cyclical. I thinkthat's what we're coming back to is basically,
make sure that you're getting new peoplein the door the same way you've
always got new people in the door. Yeah. Really fundamentals, Yeah,
practice the fundamentals. Also, don'tbe a dick. Yes, that's a
great number one, number one,number one everything. I just don't be

(59:42):
a dick about it making beer anddon't be a dick. And then if
you're drinking a beer, don't bea dick about what other people are drinking
beer, drinking more than other beer, like, oh you're trash, Yeah,
you drink that barely. It's adouble buck. By the way,
My favorite, my first beer thatI loved was a double helf of ice
and a double don't l Yeah,Dragon's Breath dark double half of ice in

(01:00:02):
out of Montana, Miss Montana unfortunately, but just like like you guys have
like one of those German brews thatcame over and started making beer. Uh,
I drank it again years later asa craft beer trick. It's garbage.
Man. If you go back tothe beers you started with, usually
it's like, I mean some holdup, you know, Palel I think

(01:00:24):
it's like Newcastle doesn't. Sorry.Uh, this is a positive podcast where
we talk about how great beer isall the time. No trash talk and
Barley and Me that's what we do, all right. We have gone too
long, as is my rule forreason right exactly the future is female and

(01:00:45):
uh the old, same old stuff. And for you in the middle,
uh w dick about beer. Thishas been episode one and fifty of Barley
Me Here at Days California trand youox I, thank you so much.
Here's you right, Thank you somuch. Paulina Olivi oters, thank you
so much. No, thank you, shut up. I'm sorry. That

(01:01:07):
was It's just I know I'm notin line with my own statements. And
special guests Chris White White Labs,thank you so much for popping on.
All right, so let's all goback our lives. Oh sorry, where
can people find you? That's whatI meant, where can people learn more
about what you're doing at the brewer. We're two thousand and one Second Street,

(01:01:28):
Davis, California. And in Sacramento, you know most retailers but Nugget
Markets, Rayles, safe Ways,and you know most smaller convenience outlets.
So in this region region, goon our website suburb brew dot com or
on social media's sutarnbrew dot com orsarn brew. You're gonna reach out and
if you ever want you to helpfind our beer, we will help find

(01:01:51):
it for you. Otherwise you cancome right here to the brewery and get
it. So it's on draft ina lot of places. Yeah, David,
right, it hasn't gone away.We don't. I live in San
Diego and we don't have stud workreally there anymore. So the one thing
about this back to community, backto the restaurant is gosh, it's harder

(01:02:13):
to find the beers you really like. But that's just what's happened. But
it also makes more you have it, travel five hundred miles to get your
beer, but it's more special nowwhen you have it. It's take a
more experience. It's great, butI can find your beer in a lot
of places. In Davis. You'vereally you know, real community brewery,
So that's fantastic. That takes alot of work, takes you know,

(01:02:34):
keeping the friendships going and mutual respectiveand different business owners and that's kind of
stuff you gotta do today. Butyou want you anyway because that's why you're
in craft beer. Yep, yeah, exactly, that's the fun part.
And Paulina virus working anymore. Youcan find me at home recovering from a
back surgery. Still sorry. Youcan find me on Instagram ol La Paulina
Pink Boots Sacramento doing all the PinkBoots things, but mostly at home,

(01:03:00):
mostly at home. Yeah, andlet's fix the healthcare system, all right,
Chris White, we're can found outmore about White Labs well, white
labs dot com. We've got Weused to have a lab here at sew
Work for ten years, so that'swhy I've continued to live here on and
off since the eighties. But rightnow, White Labs is based in San

(01:03:22):
Diego, California. We have atap room there and restaurant you can try
it. Dump a lot of differentbeers with different East trains. About thirty
twenty so different East trains on tap, which is kind of a fun different
way of thinking about beer, samebeer with different East. I love.
We do the same thing in Nashville, North Carolina. I have any buddies
out there, so we've got andthe even spirits there too, because North

(01:03:46):
Carolina is a different state, andI do think he's just the overlooked ingredient
beer. People at really know alot about what it does to beer,
and that's mostly what we do.So home brewers and hamburgers using our East
that's the majority, that's our mainbusiness of doing. It. Would make
almost one hundred different yeast Eastern bacteriastrains every week in small batches and the
three facilities, and uh, imaginemaking a hundred beers different beers a week.

(01:04:12):
You guys gotta go cast. Beingable to try different yeast in different
beers, really understand how that yeastaffects the flavor. It's an eye opening
experience. Yeah, if you ifyou have any interest in beers, yeah
you think it's balton hops, butyou forget about that yeast every time.
And water, yes, water foakleis also important. We don't have anybody
here for your water industry. Forbarny Me. You can follow barn me

(01:04:34):
across social media Barley Me pod,barny meepod dot com now has way more
in for than it's ever had ever. Don't forget. It's summer of stout,
So drink some stouts, tag mein it and we'll I don't know,
I don't I don't have a WestCoast. I'm gonna I'm gonna do
a blend West Coast. I painto a stout. So I find this

(01:04:54):
beer that you don't create anything,I just find it out at a beer
festival. That's how beer works.I didn't release right here at some point,
Yeah, exactly, We're gonna begonna come back for the relief.
The most pretentious appears the focus.Yeah all right, but for real Episode
one, we're done. Stop watching, stop listening. Uh, don't forget

(01:05:16):
to check out all these things.Uh, thanks whatch for listening, Thanks
but for watching. Get home safe