July 21, 2025 • 33 mins
Host Ben Rice sits down with journalist, artist, activist, mother, etc., Liv Monahan over a mug of vanilla horchata latte (with an added touch of Leo's Love) from Classie Hippie Coffee & Tea on Broadway in Oak Park, Sacramento. We discuss her career journey, from high school dropout to writing for major publications, as well as her upcoming art installation at SOMA. If you've ever wanted an inside look at the collapsing newspaper industry and where journalism could go as trust has eroded, grab a nicely sweetened milky caffeine drink and tune into this very episode of This Is Why I Drink... with Ben Rice
You can find Liv Monahan on IG @thelivstyler
Check out This Is Why I Drink..., Barley & Me, Ben Rice's comedy and pollitical stances on IG/FB @barleyandmepod or by going to www.barleyandmepod.com
Join the Barley & Me Pod-uctions mailing list to learn about recent and upcoming shows, podcasts, and more, plus get discounts to ticketed events: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1OwEXR-y_MYz6Dp-QB9uPaneXboQ-H22fZtBOJ9JnAe0/edit?usp=drive_web&ouid=101791735312940481630
Theme Song: "Functional Alcoholism" by Be Brave Bold Robot
Interstitial Music: "JamRoc" by Breez
Logo by Jaclyn Weiand
You can find Liv Monahan on IG @thelivstyler
Check out This Is Why I Drink..., Barley & Me, Ben Rice's comedy and pollitical stances on IG/FB @barleyandmepod or by going to www.barleyandmepod.com
Join the Barley & Me Pod-uctions mailing list to learn about recent and upcoming shows, podcasts, and more, plus get discounts to ticketed events: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1OwEXR-y_MYz6Dp-QB9uPaneXboQ-H22fZtBOJ9JnAe0/edit?usp=drive_web&ouid=101791735312940481630
Theme Song: "Functional Alcoholism" by Be Brave Bold Robot
Interstitial Music: "JamRoc" by Breez
Logo by Jaclyn Weiand
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Something. They call it functional alcoholism. But if you know
anything about Ben, he's got vision with precision microphones.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
And the tinkle love derision.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Here about to hear what beer can be. It's time
for Barley and me.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hi. I'm Olivia Monaghan. I'm also known as lit Styler.
I am a journalist, teacher, mom, writer, artist, weirdo, ravel rouser,
shit talker, and I'm here drinking vanilla or Chace Lanta,
and I'm gonna tell you this is why I drink it.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Soon not right now though.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Yeah. At Broadway Coffee aka Classic Hippie with Ben Rice.
With Ben Rice, no flip we have never met. Yeah, perfect, great, No,
not at all, very fun.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
This is always an enjoyment. Yeah, this is actually uh.
I think this is the first time I've gone on
a podcast with someone I don't know personally ahead of
like like physically personally.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yeah. I have dropped things off on your porch. You have,
but I have not met have not?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Yes, and you you you host or co create or
do something schmancy with one of my best friends, Russell Cummings.
So I've heard of and know of you through many things.
But yes, this is the first time in.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Person it's very funny. We're in the very we're in
the same circles. Never met, No, never met.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
And I don't even know how I got in the
comedy circles since I'm not a kid.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Yeah, well, you're you're an artist. You're an artist, right,
so you're gonna explore other arts. Right. There's maybe a
show that had a comedian, but it's like an art
performance space or whatever. But it was showing for this
one artist. By the way, there's a comic.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
By the way, there's a comic or I just end
up with a lot of like really funny friends and
some of them decide to do it on stage.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
I've gotten lucky with that.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yeah, so all kinds of reasons that can happen. I
intermingle in all the arts. It's what you do. If
you're like an artist, you're like you appreciate.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Other arts, especially since Sacramentos are community isn't small, but
it's very interconnected.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Yeah, you know, it's very inconnected, very much.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
So well, I'm happy to be here, yeah, and I'm
happy to have my drinks and I'm ready now.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
This drink has a twist.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
It does have a twist. It has love.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Okay, I mean it also has other things. The thing
about when you ask for a little bit of Leo's
love in your drink, you don't actually know what you're getting,
and it may not be the same thing every time.
So it's really like, what does he feel like you
need that day? What is he in the mood for
that day? Like, I just let him play.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
You know what I mean. I let the do their thing.
You know.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
I'm just here to appreciate and enjoy. But anything with
orchata I'm gonna drink as a as a Mexican.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
It's just yeah, not a Mexican. I'm just like, yeah,
well your.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Name is Rice and it's made up of yeah yeah,
it's technically technically it's North African anyway. But culturally we
just picked up on it somewhere down the road and
somehow it became Marjorie.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
I just wanted to throw that out there.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yeah, and I'm just myself right, my spirit with your soul. Yeah,
here's it.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Yeah, here's it. Clink clink tink tink. Oh So now
what do we do?
Speaker 1 (03:18):
That's the tough part that we got to figure. We
were on a roll.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Before before the cameras gone, guys, nuclear fission.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
There was a lot of problem solving.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Solve piece solved piece by creating world crimes. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
We won't get too into the snorkels.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
I don't want to check.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah, check the most recent episodes for some helpful hints
into why snorkeling is an everyday practice.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
We should all be looking into.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
How it can amplify your life.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
But amplify your life and your bank accounts in a
very unique and creative way.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Just get more ATVs at one time.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Guys, So, I guess what are my questions would be?
So you obviously art is something you probably grew up around,
I'm guessing, or did you? How did you stumble into art?
Speaker 3 (04:07):
How did I stumble into art?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Well, I am from a family who believes art's not
so valid in terms of a career or in terms
of just things to follow with your life. So, you know,
very kind of not strict upbringing, but immigrant family kind
of upbringing where you're supposed to get the degree become
(04:30):
a lawyer, which because I argue so much, they were like,
is that's her thing?
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Like this is going to be her thing?
Speaker 2 (04:39):
And I was, you know, I was in the gifted
program and all that dumb shit that they say matters. However,
I just never really found any of that enjoyable. And
to be honest, I probably spitefully joined into anything that
had the opposite effect of pride on my parents. So
I think I got into art because I were writing specifically,
(05:03):
which is really where I started and where where my
career still is today. I got into writing because I
felt like I couldn't say what I wanted to say,
like at home, without causing too many issues.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
So I learned how.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
To just like write it out and and kind of
just express all of the things that I was feeling.
And then it just really started to become more of
a creative practice, and I started writing down the things
that I saw on all that good old stuff. But
I would say, spie, I would say, spite is how
I got into the art. Yes, spite is how I
got there, But the love of it is how I
(05:37):
actually and.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
You had an outlet create and it was like, by
the way, it's a creative outlet.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Is that? Yeah, it is a creative outlet.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Is also now for you a career?
Speaker 3 (05:45):
It is it became my accidental career.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Yeah, yeah, which is proof positive that the arts does
pay suckers.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Yeah, no, I I actually so.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
I despite my best efforts or my parents' best efforts,
I dropped out of high school when I was a senior.
Despite the fact that I had been there theoretically all
four years, I only had a ninth grade education because
I skipped so many classes.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Okay, so I was like, well, this is just.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
At this point pointless, I'm just going to go now,
because I was eighteen. So I dropped out and jumped
on a train and moved to Colorado and bounced around
to a lot of different places with no education formally.
So I kind of had to talk my way right,
my way work my.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Way into things.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
And that was that ability to express myself and to
kind of believe in myself enough that if I would
get on a train and dip and just hope for
the best, that I could probably do anything else. So
I actually just got into a lot of different jobs
that I probably shouldn't have because I was good at
explaining why you should give me the job, right, And
(06:54):
so yeah, it became my accidental career in my thirties.
Before that, I was in social media marketing, which is
still writing, but it's like writing for the souls and
no offense to any social media marketing people.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
I call it using my gifts for evil.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Yeah, I mean, it's not evil to pay my bills.
It's evil that I have them. Capitalism cheers year yeah,
but yeah, no, and it wasn't evil. I actually worked
for a lot of companies. I worked for African American Expressions,
which is like the black Hallmark if anyone knows about
it here in Sacramento. I worked for magicians like David
(07:32):
Blaine and Chris Angel and doing weird stuff for them,
but that it was.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
It was a weird thing.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
I worked in social media at MTV when I was
in New York a long time ago. So I've gotten
a lot of really cool jobs, but I had no
real qualifications for any of it other than writing and
the ability to do so. But through social media, I
started just kind of writing my stuff and being like, Hey,
this is a weird thing. Why is this happening in Sacramento.
I don't really like this, you know, I have a.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Lot of opinions.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Or I would just write like the good things that
I was seeing, which is what I actually enjoy talking
about more. And eventually someone handed me a blog one day.
They just were kind of over it. They didn't want
to do it anymore. But it had been around for
ten years and it was an underground hip hop blog.
And I started here in the community throwing events and
(08:22):
stuff like that. So one thing led to another. I
took over the blog. I started covering festivals. I actually
ended up going kind of viral within the festival scene.
Got a lot more jobs that way, quit my real job,
decided to become a journalist, and then eventually I wasn't
getting paid enough through blogging, just because it's naturally not
going to pay you a decent amount. So I just
(08:44):
called out all the newspapers and Sacramento and said, why
am I not writing for you yet?
Speaker 3 (08:48):
That seems stupid.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
And it worked and so I ended up first starting
at SNR when they were still in print. Then I
was with Submerge. Then I became a writer at SACRAMENTOB.
Then I became an editor at Sacramento BE. Then I
got blacklisted at Sacramento BE because I am very opinionated,
but I did some good stuff while I was there.
And now I'm a freelance journalist who writes nationally internationally locally.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
I'm also on the.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Board for a journalist organization and a bunch of other stuff.
So yeah, I turned it into a career. But it's
really just because I don't shut the fuck up, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Yeah, you're going to take up space, like I know,
I'm good at.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
This, yeah, big bitch in very many ways, physically, mentally, vocally,
depending on certain aspects, you know.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
So yeah, I do like to.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Take up certain space, mostly because we're especially in my
in like not the family specifically that I was grought up,
but culturally where we were brought up, women aren't really
taught to take up a lot of space or taught
to be very submissive. So I said, I'm gonna go
the opser out. That seems like that's not like that,
(09:57):
you know. So that's how I got here, and that's
so prisingly how I'm still here. I've I've been doing
it on my own, like freelance for almost nine years now.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
It is wild.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
That's terrifying.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
It's horrified, especially now like now now I'm like, maybe
I should have become aware.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
They seem busy, you know what I mean, Yeah, they're
there there. My lawyer stays busy, so I know they're busy.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
You know what.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
So, yeah, No, it's a it's a wild to be
fair to to not journalists, but journalism. I think it's
trash the way that a lot of it works these days.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Yes, there's been a pretty hard pivot.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah, it's uh for the viewers at home that couldn't
see my eyes bugged out and rolled. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
No, oh yeah, there's a camera, well just in case
you've blinked at that.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
The audio, because why would you watch a podcast.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
In case I'm fascinating to look at.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Yeah, No, it's a it's a wild it's the wild
West right now, and in the sense that there really
is no actual there's just no you know, I feel
like journalism used to be a thing at one point
where like that it kind of mattered, like it really
like they really tried a little bit to get things right,
to maybe not be so sensationalized, to not just be clickbait,
(11:23):
to not just prey on people's pain and trauma as
though it's supposed to, right, it didn't used to be,
or at least maybe I had an idealized concept of
it in my mind that at one point it wasn't
so propaganda ish, like it it. It had a hint,
had a sprinkle, because how could you not with your
mainstream media, But it wasn't like you couldn't tell that
(11:48):
the journalists were physically sniffing the ass of whatever particular
party or person they were.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Yeah, and that is a This is a question I
kind of planned in advance, but I didn't know we'd
have it come up. Is how hard is it as
a journalist when you have to talk to sources? Right?
You have to talk to people, interview people, knowing that
they might not trust you or like want to be
a part of what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Yes, so that.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
I'm going to This is going to sound a little
bit like I'm trying to like be braggy, but I'm
not this. But it's just my general experience because of
the fact that I didn't get into journalism as a journalist,
Like I really didn't come to it in a traditional way,
so I didn't get taught these are the stories that
are going to get us the most money. These are
(12:37):
I came into it because I wanted to tell the
stories that I thought were cool, like my first story
at the Sacramento Bee, long before they thought I was dangerous.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
That's a quote.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
My first story for The Bee was about a squatter
in downtown Sacramento who had taken an entire building over
and turned it into.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Wall to wall paintings.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
There, from ceiling to floor, furniture, everything.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
It looked like.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
You would never have to take acid to experience what
the trip was like by walking into this space. And
I was so fascinated that this person, who was in
his sixties, you know, definitely had some trauma and had
been in the streets for a decent portion of his life.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Had created this like beautiful space.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
And it came from someone that no one would normally
give credit for being able to do something like that
and things of that nature. And I've constantly stuck with
telling stories like that, whether my editors were sometimes not
the biggest fans of it, or I had to fight.
You can ask my former editor, Ryan Lillis. Shout out
to him. I've cussed him out, I've made him cry.
(13:53):
He blames a lot of his gray hairs on me.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Nice, uh huh, But.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yeah, he did his Like, you know, he really taught
me about a lot of stuff, but in the grand scheme,
because I came out in an untraditional space and I
built my reputation and my connections with my community long
before I became an actual writer. I don't typically have
that sort of immediate wall come up. In fact, a
(14:21):
lot of times, because I'm telling stories from my communities,
I tend to have the opposite. I don't want to
go into communities where I don't have my own, at
least general experience within that community and say I'm the
person that should be talking about what's going on in
your life, because I shouldn't, and more journalists should be
(14:42):
taking the responsibility to say, yo, I literally have no
idea about anything that I'm walking into right now. Maybe
I'm not the one to tell this story, but it's
hard to do when money is money, and.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Money is money and they want a quality product, Like,
we can't trust somebody from this area to do a
good job, even though you fucking can. You can't have
to encourage.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Yeah, you can trust people from the community to tell
their stories, actually a lot better than most unnoledgeable journalists
would be able to, because what most journalists consider objective
is actually just callous and crass because they don't put
a humanization to a lot of the things that they're saying.
They really tend to look at people as a business,
(15:28):
whereas you know, people are the point of the story.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
And also directly impacted by the story, So maybe pretend
that they exist when writing it, or them.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Right, there's going to be a ripple effect of what
you say that doesn't disappear just because the story's done
the next day. Like, what you say can impact people
for years decades to come. And sometimes when we talk
about things like hey, maybe you should have waited and
actually gotten the full story before you tell us and
(16:01):
jump the gun. A lot of times when we do
find out more information, those initials sensationalize big things that
become viral and get stuck in everybody's head.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Never get corrected, right, never, never.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
So thirty forty years later, people still think certain things
about a case in history that has actually no relevance
or merit. Or sometimes a person's mugshot comes up in
a suspected crime and it turns out that they weren't
the guilty but the fucking mugshot and that's the first
thing that pops up in their Google search when they're
trying to get a job. Yeah, Like, it can be
(16:35):
difficult because that is a position that a good portion
of journalists, mainstream media, and just the general concept of
the kind of way that we handle stories can be.
A lot of sources will shut down on people, but
good fuck those people. They shouldn't be telling the stories
in the first place anyways, So shut them down and
don't talk to their asses, kick them out of the protest,
(16:56):
do what you gotta do.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Like, I'm with it.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
You need the umbrellas to block the press, I'm with it.
But I think because of that, I've had an opportunity
to not only like be able to tell the kind
of stories that I think are important, but have the
sources trust me enough to do it, and trust me
(17:18):
enough to fight if someone tries to change the way
that the story is being written because.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Of editing or whatever, which I will. And so I
think that's been a big thing.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Like, for example, when there was the case of Willie
Brown that happened here in Sacramento. This was years ago now,
it feels like probably five or six, But there was
a man who was found hanging from a basketball court
in South Sacramento and the circumstances of the death were
extremely suspicious and it scientifically logically didn't make sense for
(17:51):
him to have gotten up there with nothing else around him,
with ladder, no whatever.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
But it was being very much treated as a suicide.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
And the family knew that they needed to get the
story out, but they also knew that it wasn't going
to be treated the right way. And I was the
only journalist that they inevitably would talk to because I
knew the family like first, because I was literally on
frontlines with them years before that, but just happened to
now be a journalist. So I think education is whatever.
(18:24):
Obviously I'm a dropout, so I can't be like education
is important because I clearly didn't value it. However, as
a parent who now has two children in college, I
do believe, like, hey, if that's the route, it's never
bad to have a backup, even if you decide to
be an artist, panhandling, busking, whatever you want to do.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
I don't care.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
But he doesn't hurt to have that because other people
view it as something. However, when you, as a journalist,
go through the very traditional education and the very traditional
route of journalism, it can really I think, take you
out of a big perspective that you're missing, and I
think it's going to really limit like the people being
(19:03):
willing to speak to you because you're coming from a
place that they don't understand, and you're they're coming from
a place they're not going to understand.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Yeah, and like I get the idea that you're going
to come in like I'm gonna pretend like I'm ignorant
to this, right or but like you're not or you are,
and both of those are problems. You're going to pretend
that it's like, uh, this idea that you're unbiased, right.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
I think the idea of objectivity is bullshit when it
comes to journalism. I don't think there is unless the
fucking Buddha is coming down and telling the story because
he understands.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Uality, it's always going to have your subjectivity.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
He did with some sort of opinion. I'm extremely biased
against certain things. I will never write a story that's
pro police, like I would never you know what I mean, Like,
there are certain things that my biases and my positions.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Not the story for me. No, And if you're doing counterpoint.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
No one would suggest it either because everyone knows that
by now.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
But yeah, I do that doesn't exist.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
And I think telling stories like those are even more important.
And when I think when sources are like, I don't
trust you to tell the story. That's another way that
you know how important the story it is to tell. Yes,
And so as journalists, if you consider yourself a storyteller,
which I do, and is ancestrally or responsibility, you have
(20:21):
to a work harder to be trustworthy of the communities
that you're going to be working with if you're not
from those communities, and b step out when it's not
your place, and be okay with stepping out and knowing
that that's not you being like, ah, I'm not a
good enough writer to.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Do this or whatever.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
It just means that, hey, there might be somebody that
can treat these people a little bit differently or get
the story out in a more effective way. Yeah, And
I think that that's hard for a lot of people,
especially now it's everyone's getting laid off.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
The freelance pool is no money.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Full of piss as the dating pool, Like, there's just
it's a lot. It's hard to survive as a freelance journalist.
It's been hard for the last eight years, but it's
definitely hard.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Yeah, But you're always making a new connection, always making
a new connection, always making a new connection. That's going
to help sustain right, Yeah, but it's still not. There's
no guarantees. They can all go away. They can lose
their authority like that. Yes, wins with time.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Yeah, editors, editors that you connect with get laid off.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yeah, a new jobs, all that.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
And so I because of that, I've never just done
like even when I've been that, oh, this is my career,
I'm a journalist, Like, I'm still not just a journalist.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
I still teach.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
I still like I have an art installation in San
Francisco coming up in November.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Like like, exactly when and exactly where.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Exactly when and exactly where is a great question. Exactly
when I don't I don't know the opening day. It's
a Dia de los Mortos exhibit, so typically it's going
to start somewhere between October thirty first and member second.
It's at Soma Arts and Cultural Center. The curators are
Rio Yaniez, who is the son of Renee Yanez, who
(22:09):
is a wonderful artist and Chicano activist in the San
Francisco Bay Area who originally started this exhibit decades ago,
and it's such an honor. We also have a local
Sacramento curator who is co curating with Rio. Her name
is Bridget Rex. She's also fucking amazing. I've worked with
her before. She had a Peace of Mind hanging in
(22:32):
Sacramento City Hall last year, which is super ironic because
I've been.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Kicked out of that place many times.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
But yeah, it's I've never maybe because I've always had
to hustle because I don't have the education, because I've
had to always like.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
Prove myself a little bit more.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
I've always got like four things where I'm like, Okay,
I also have to do this so I can make
money for that, so I can go and do this,
so I can you know. So yeah, I do everything
just to kind of make sure that I can still
survive as a journalist.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Yeah, it's fun.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Yeah, a lot of pots going, a lot of pots.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
And also I would like to just add no formal
education or been a little formal education. You are always learning,
You're always getting education somewhere teaching, so you clearly know something.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
No, And to say that I have like no education,
like I have a ninth grade education in terms of paperwork.
But to be fair, when I was skipping, I literally
went to the library just because I was reading the
stuff I wanted to read. Or I was at Tower
with the headphones on shout out Tower, Rest in Peace,
learning about music. Or I went up to sack City,
(23:40):
snuck into classes and then went and played chess at
the cafe.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Like I was a fucking nerd. It wasn't like I
was skipping, like and I.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Did all that too, you know, but it's just I
still learned many pots.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Yeah, lots of pots.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Pots gotten me through a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Yeah yeah. Like I I got all the way to
college for a whole year. There you go, and I did.
I sat down with my whatever they're called counselor counselor yeah, whatever,
and I switched majors like twice, and I went to
creative writing. Uh first as I liked writing, but second
because there's the fewest credits you needed to graduate. I
(24:19):
think because they wanted you to go to other things
to learn stuff so you can write. And he's like, hey, uh,
I've been reading the papers you've been submitting in your classes.
We're not gonna teach you anything you don't already know.
We're just gonna make you do it. And I'm like cool, Yeah,
I'm gonna go. Also, I can't afford it, so I'm
gonna go. Yeah, and then I immediately stopped writing, you know,
(24:42):
like a genius would do, and as is the way.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Yeah, yeah, but that's how it usually works.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
I definitely didn't write for a really long time after
having kids, like there was no there was no time
for that. But eventually they grew up and stopped bothering
me as much.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Shout out to the children.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Yeah yeah, and then yeah, you got I got a
chance to.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Get back into it.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
But yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Education is whatever you decide to educate yourself with, whether
it's self imposed.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
If Abraham Lincoln can do it, god damn it, so
can I. You know he was smart.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Now I have we do have to go soon. So
I wanted to run this by you. We have two paths.
We could take whatever path you want to go on,
or we can talk about why it is that newspapers
are not doing what they need to do because of
the new form of capitalism wherein advertising venue does not
really exist for them anymore, and they are struggling to
find out how to finance themselves. Which one do you
(25:34):
want to do? Oh?
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Wow, Okay, so wow.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
You were dancing around it.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
I know, I mean, I mean you seem like that
was a very well thought out concept.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
So I mean I would be vermiss to not go
down that path.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
And that's the end of it. They are struggling to
find out how to finance after advertise ISS bailed out
because there's no paper product. It's not normal to have
a newspaper delivered to your home and we are all
immune to online advertising. So how do you You have
no value to the advertisers, how do you make money?
You can't sell your paper product, and no one's paying
for a subscription where they can get it for free somewhere.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Else when they can get it for free somewhere else.
So poor, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Oftentimes, oftentimes, oftentimes the smartest thing for newspapers, in my mind,
would be to stop acting like those folks who are
doing all the independent work aren't doing the right thing
and just don't have the budget. Like, if you want
people to start buying your newspapers again, start treating the
news as though it's something to be dissected, analyze, learned from.
(26:35):
It's something to be treated with care. It's not something
that's paid for by whoever the fuck it is that
happens to pay for whatever hedge fund actually owns. Your
newspaper Sacramento Bee, Washington Posts, any of the real ones
that you anything that's owned by the fucking McClatchy Corporation,
anything that's probably owned by Herst at this point, I
don't know where Warren Buffett is.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Right now, but he's probably any of My point is.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
They're the News has now just basically become the biggest
advertisement for whatever propaganda machine is paying it. And if
the News actually wants to sell newspapers again, try using
the actual thing that you're supposed to be doing, which
is telling real stories.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
Get dumbfucks, like, it's really not that hard.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
You remember it for your constituents, your readers. It's for
your readers, it's not for your advertisers.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Right, look back, Like, if you really want to know
what you guys should be doing as newspapers, I suggest
going to newspapers dot com and looking at any newspaper
from between nineteen sixty three to nineteen seventy eight when
they actually dissected and analyzed the huge pictures of global
change that were going on in a massive scale at
the time and they weren't just doing it because they
(27:44):
were paid for by whatever fucking corporate shill they were
paid for. They were actually telling the fucking news. That's
how you sell the newspaper. You actually do your job.
That would be helpful.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Do you probably care because people can tell when you
don't do your job.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
You don't use that big fancy degree that you got
and like, do your job, and then you'd sell a paper.
Hire people who actually want to tell the stories that
are important and not just repeat the same stories over
and over again because they're trending at the time. We
get it there's a possible nuclear war? What the fuck
else is going on? Because I know there's a lot
(28:21):
of other shit going on right now, and until we
actually go to war, can we talk about something else?
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Yeah, it's just there's there's so many things, and we
only focus on the most fear mongering the most.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Because it gets the eyeballs.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
Because it gets the eyeballs because.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
They're still getting one because they're still not clicking your content.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
No one's no.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
I've I've clicked many many an article this week, and
I've paid not one subscription. And most of us know
how to get around all that your firewalls aren't that great.
So yeah, it's really just about actually going back to
what the news was intended to be. And I don't
mean like intended because of the fact that it's built
on the idea of systemic grade and considering the media
(29:01):
at the time when it was originally the was only
white people and had nothing to do with the communities
of culture or color that were relevant and prevalent at
the time, which is pretty much exactly what's happening right now.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
So realistically, it's just history repeating itself.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
So maybe you should stop doing the same fucking thing
that you always do and try to.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
World is still through the college system, which is still
anyway anyway.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
This is why I drink or child because it really
gets me riled up. Yeah, that's I mean, it seems simple,
but it's when you're indoctrinated and under the thumb of capitalism,
you know, people get real dumb and the simple could
become extremely complex.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
But it doesn't have to be.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Just blink and bear through it and tell the actual
news and do your actual job. And I bet you
see people actually subscribing to your paper. I know when
I worked at the b subscriptions when I know they
went down when I got blacklisted.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
Do your fucking jobs, do you know what I mean? Anyway?
Speaker 1 (29:58):
I mean, if there's one thing that I companies going
to do, it's going to be fear change, right, even
when all the data says you should yeah, no, and
that what you're currently doing is not working.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Right. Change is legitimately the only thing that's constant besides death,
so I don't and even death is changed. So really
it's just change. Yeah, So just change weirdos.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Yeah, maybe it doesn't work, maybe you took the wrong lesson,
but at least you're not stuck in a loop that
you know is not helping.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
And that's the other thing.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Change takes more than six months of an implication of
a policy. So like you can't pull a token DEI
whatever whatever equity funding.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
We're going to make journalism about the community.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
You can't do that for six months worth of a
grant and go, well, didn't work. I think it didn't,
you know, I think, I mean whatever, Like we're just
gonna let it go after that. Change is constant, but
being able to adapt and grow and evolve with that
change takes time.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
It takes patients it takes effort, and.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
It's not always going to get you a million clicks,
but considering they don't translate to your money anyway, you
might as well take the risk and actually make the effort.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
And like stand with conviction maybe and courage just a
little bit. I mean, we have war correspondence, you, Courage
is part of the job. Why can't the people that
are on the top be like, I also have bravery
in my.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Heart right right.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
And for all the people that are like, they're shooting
journalists now, just be happy that the journalists are actually
finally getting close enough to get fucking shot, because how
were they telling the stories when they were so far
away from the fucking front lines.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
That they had no idea what was happening in the
first place.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
So shout out to the journalists getting shot, not so
much the cops that are shooting there.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Yeah, I mean, wasn't happening, But at least it's the risk,
is there?
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Yeah? Absolutely, I've got battle scars from many a thing,
many many a toxic and many a bullet and many
a thing. And that's where you're supposed to be if
you're actually going to tell the stories.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
If you're not fuck are you doing here? Yeah, but
that's just me. I'm annoying and opinionated.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
That's just me. Live on a hand, drinking.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
With a side of Leo love a classy hippie aka
Broadway Coffee AKA the only spot that I will usually
go out in public for aka my favorite place in
oak Park to be unless it's at the Shore Center
down the street.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
I think, like I said, I have no outro to this,
but I'm like, I do have to leave.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Okay, that's atro I have to leave. Yeah, I have
to leave.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
I'm gonna go find something to drink that's not this.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
No.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
I also Broadway Coffee incredible, So glad it's here. I
don't get here nearly enough. When I was sorry, I
don't know how.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
To end things, he said he had to leave, and
yet say.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
I don't know how to do.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
That is the effect I have on Pece.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
This is my This is the effect that I have
on myself. I don't know how to leave a conversation.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
It's fine, I'm.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
A story, damn it.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
I'm an Irish good bye person. But I guess you
can't really do that with equipment.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
So if you want to be like I have to
leave Irish Goodbye.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Hey, thanks for whatever you were doing. And if you're
at your office writing the next great journalistic piece, or
or sleeping, I don't I don't care. Thanks for thanks
for listening or watching. I don't know why you're watching. Bye,
it's great.
Something. They call it functional alcoholism. But if you know
anything about Ben, he's got vision with precision microphones.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
And the tinkle love derision.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Here about to hear what beer can be. It's time
for Barley and me.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hi. I'm Olivia Monaghan. I'm also known as lit Styler.
I am a journalist, teacher, mom, writer, artist, weirdo, ravel rouser,
shit talker, and I'm here drinking vanilla or Chace Lanta,
and I'm gonna tell you this is why I drink it.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Soon not right now though.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Yeah. At Broadway Coffee aka Classic Hippie with Ben Rice.
With Ben Rice, no flip we have never met. Yeah, perfect, great, No,
not at all, very fun.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
This is always an enjoyment. Yeah, this is actually uh.
I think this is the first time I've gone on
a podcast with someone I don't know personally ahead of
like like physically personally.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yeah. I have dropped things off on your porch. You have,
but I have not met have not?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Yes, and you you you host or co create or
do something schmancy with one of my best friends, Russell Cummings.
So I've heard of and know of you through many things.
But yes, this is the first time in.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Person it's very funny. We're in the very we're in
the same circles. Never met, No, never met.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
And I don't even know how I got in the
comedy circles since I'm not a kid.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Yeah, well, you're you're an artist. You're an artist, right,
so you're gonna explore other arts. Right. There's maybe a
show that had a comedian, but it's like an art
performance space or whatever. But it was showing for this
one artist. By the way, there's a comic.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
By the way, there's a comic or I just end
up with a lot of like really funny friends and
some of them decide to do it on stage.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
I've gotten lucky with that.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yeah, so all kinds of reasons that can happen. I
intermingle in all the arts. It's what you do. If
you're like an artist, you're like you appreciate.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Other arts, especially since Sacramentos are community isn't small, but
it's very interconnected.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Yeah, you know, it's very inconnected, very much.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
So well, I'm happy to be here, yeah, and I'm
happy to have my drinks and I'm ready now.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
This drink has a twist.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
It does have a twist. It has love.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Okay, I mean it also has other things. The thing
about when you ask for a little bit of Leo's
love in your drink, you don't actually know what you're getting,
and it may not be the same thing every time.
So it's really like, what does he feel like you
need that day? What is he in the mood for
that day? Like, I just let him play.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
You know what I mean. I let the do their thing.
You know.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
I'm just here to appreciate and enjoy. But anything with
orchata I'm gonna drink as a as a Mexican.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
It's just yeah, not a Mexican. I'm just like, yeah,
well your.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Name is Rice and it's made up of yeah yeah,
it's technically technically it's North African anyway. But culturally we
just picked up on it somewhere down the road and
somehow it became Marjorie.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
I just wanted to throw that out there.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yeah, and I'm just myself right, my spirit with your soul. Yeah,
here's it.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Yeah, here's it. Clink clink tink tink. Oh So now
what do we do?
Speaker 1 (03:18):
That's the tough part that we got to figure. We
were on a roll.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Before before the cameras gone, guys, nuclear fission.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
There was a lot of problem solving.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Solve piece solved piece by creating world crimes. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
We won't get too into the snorkels.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
I don't want to check.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah, check the most recent episodes for some helpful hints
into why snorkeling is an everyday practice.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
We should all be looking into.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
How it can amplify your life.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
But amplify your life and your bank accounts in a
very unique and creative way.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Just get more ATVs at one time.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Guys, So, I guess what are my questions would be?
So you obviously art is something you probably grew up around,
I'm guessing, or did you? How did you stumble into art?
Speaker 3 (04:07):
How did I stumble into art?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Well, I am from a family who believes art's not
so valid in terms of a career or in terms
of just things to follow with your life. So, you know,
very kind of not strict upbringing, but immigrant family kind
of upbringing where you're supposed to get the degree become
(04:30):
a lawyer, which because I argue so much, they were like,
is that's her thing?
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Like this is going to be her thing?
Speaker 2 (04:39):
And I was, you know, I was in the gifted
program and all that dumb shit that they say matters. However,
I just never really found any of that enjoyable. And
to be honest, I probably spitefully joined into anything that
had the opposite effect of pride on my parents. So
I think I got into art because I were writing specifically,
(05:03):
which is really where I started and where where my
career still is today. I got into writing because I
felt like I couldn't say what I wanted to say,
like at home, without causing too many issues.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
So I learned how.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
To just like write it out and and kind of
just express all of the things that I was feeling.
And then it just really started to become more of
a creative practice, and I started writing down the things
that I saw on all that good old stuff. But
I would say, spie, I would say, spite is how
I got into the art. Yes, spite is how I
got there, But the love of it is how I
(05:37):
actually and.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
You had an outlet create and it was like, by
the way, it's a creative outlet.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Is that? Yeah, it is a creative outlet.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Is also now for you a career?
Speaker 3 (05:45):
It is it became my accidental career.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Yeah, yeah, which is proof positive that the arts does
pay suckers.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Yeah, no, I I actually so.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
I despite my best efforts or my parents' best efforts,
I dropped out of high school when I was a senior.
Despite the fact that I had been there theoretically all
four years, I only had a ninth grade education because
I skipped so many classes.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Okay, so I was like, well, this is just.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
At this point pointless, I'm just going to go now,
because I was eighteen. So I dropped out and jumped
on a train and moved to Colorado and bounced around
to a lot of different places with no education formally.
So I kind of had to talk my way right,
my way work my.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Way into things.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
And that was that ability to express myself and to
kind of believe in myself enough that if I would
get on a train and dip and just hope for
the best, that I could probably do anything else. So
I actually just got into a lot of different jobs
that I probably shouldn't have because I was good at
explaining why you should give me the job, right, And
(06:54):
so yeah, it became my accidental career in my thirties.
Before that, I was in social media marketing, which is
still writing, but it's like writing for the souls and
no offense to any social media marketing people.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
I call it using my gifts for evil.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Yeah, I mean, it's not evil to pay my bills.
It's evil that I have them. Capitalism cheers year yeah,
but yeah, no, and it wasn't evil. I actually worked
for a lot of companies. I worked for African American Expressions,
which is like the black Hallmark if anyone knows about
it here in Sacramento. I worked for magicians like David
(07:32):
Blaine and Chris Angel and doing weird stuff for them,
but that it was.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
It was a weird thing.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
I worked in social media at MTV when I was
in New York a long time ago. So I've gotten
a lot of really cool jobs, but I had no
real qualifications for any of it other than writing and
the ability to do so. But through social media, I
started just kind of writing my stuff and being like, Hey,
this is a weird thing. Why is this happening in Sacramento.
I don't really like this, you know, I have a.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Lot of opinions.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Or I would just write like the good things that
I was seeing, which is what I actually enjoy talking
about more. And eventually someone handed me a blog one day.
They just were kind of over it. They didn't want
to do it anymore. But it had been around for
ten years and it was an underground hip hop blog.
And I started here in the community throwing events and
(08:22):
stuff like that. So one thing led to another. I
took over the blog. I started covering festivals. I actually
ended up going kind of viral within the festival scene.
Got a lot more jobs that way, quit my real job,
decided to become a journalist, and then eventually I wasn't
getting paid enough through blogging, just because it's naturally not
going to pay you a decent amount. So I just
(08:44):
called out all the newspapers and Sacramento and said, why
am I not writing for you yet?
Speaker 3 (08:48):
That seems stupid.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
And it worked and so I ended up first starting
at SNR when they were still in print. Then I
was with Submerge. Then I became a writer at SACRAMENTOB.
Then I became an editor at Sacramento BE. Then I
got blacklisted at Sacramento BE because I am very opinionated,
but I did some good stuff while I was there.
And now I'm a freelance journalist who writes nationally internationally locally.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
I'm also on the.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Board for a journalist organization and a bunch of other stuff.
So yeah, I turned it into a career. But it's
really just because I don't shut the fuck up, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Yeah, you're going to take up space, like I know,
I'm good at.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
This, yeah, big bitch in very many ways, physically, mentally, vocally,
depending on certain aspects, you know.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
So yeah, I do like to.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Take up certain space, mostly because we're especially in my
in like not the family specifically that I was grought up,
but culturally where we were brought up, women aren't really
taught to take up a lot of space or taught
to be very submissive. So I said, I'm gonna go
the opser out. That seems like that's not like that,
(09:57):
you know. So that's how I got here, and that's
so prisingly how I'm still here. I've I've been doing
it on my own, like freelance for almost nine years now.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
It is wild.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
That's terrifying.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
It's horrified, especially now like now now I'm like, maybe
I should have become aware.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
They seem busy, you know what I mean, Yeah, they're
there there. My lawyer stays busy, so I know they're busy.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
You know what.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
So, yeah, No, it's a it's a wild to be
fair to to not journalists, but journalism. I think it's
trash the way that a lot of it works these days.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Yes, there's been a pretty hard pivot.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah, it's uh for the viewers at home that couldn't
see my eyes bugged out and rolled. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
No, oh yeah, there's a camera, well just in case
you've blinked at that.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
The audio, because why would you watch a podcast.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
In case I'm fascinating to look at.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Yeah, No, it's a it's a wild it's the wild
West right now, and in the sense that there really
is no actual there's just no you know, I feel
like journalism used to be a thing at one point
where like that it kind of mattered, like it really
like they really tried a little bit to get things right,
to maybe not be so sensationalized, to not just be clickbait,
(11:23):
to not just prey on people's pain and trauma as
though it's supposed to, right, it didn't used to be,
or at least maybe I had an idealized concept of
it in my mind that at one point it wasn't
so propaganda ish, like it it. It had a hint,
had a sprinkle, because how could you not with your
mainstream media, But it wasn't like you couldn't tell that
(11:48):
the journalists were physically sniffing the ass of whatever particular
party or person they were.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Yeah, and that is a This is a question I
kind of planned in advance, but I didn't know we'd
have it come up. Is how hard is it as
a journalist when you have to talk to sources? Right?
You have to talk to people, interview people, knowing that
they might not trust you or like want to be
a part of what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Yes, so that.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
I'm going to This is going to sound a little
bit like I'm trying to like be braggy, but I'm
not this. But it's just my general experience because of
the fact that I didn't get into journalism as a journalist,
Like I really didn't come to it in a traditional way,
so I didn't get taught these are the stories that
are going to get us the most money. These are
(12:37):
I came into it because I wanted to tell the
stories that I thought were cool, like my first story
at the Sacramento Bee, long before they thought I was dangerous.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
That's a quote.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
My first story for The Bee was about a squatter
in downtown Sacramento who had taken an entire building over
and turned it into.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Wall to wall paintings.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
There, from ceiling to floor, furniture, everything.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
It looked like.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
You would never have to take acid to experience what
the trip was like by walking into this space. And
I was so fascinated that this person, who was in
his sixties, you know, definitely had some trauma and had
been in the streets for a decent portion of his life.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Had created this like beautiful space.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
And it came from someone that no one would normally
give credit for being able to do something like that
and things of that nature. And I've constantly stuck with
telling stories like that, whether my editors were sometimes not
the biggest fans of it, or I had to fight.
You can ask my former editor, Ryan Lillis. Shout out
to him. I've cussed him out, I've made him cry.
(13:53):
He blames a lot of his gray hairs on me.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Nice, uh huh, But.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yeah, he did his Like, you know, he really taught
me about a lot of stuff, but in the grand scheme,
because I came out in an untraditional space and I
built my reputation and my connections with my community long
before I became an actual writer. I don't typically have
that sort of immediate wall come up. In fact, a
(14:21):
lot of times, because I'm telling stories from my communities,
I tend to have the opposite. I don't want to
go into communities where I don't have my own, at
least general experience within that community and say I'm the
person that should be talking about what's going on in
your life, because I shouldn't, and more journalists should be
(14:42):
taking the responsibility to say, yo, I literally have no
idea about anything that I'm walking into right now. Maybe
I'm not the one to tell this story, but it's
hard to do when money is money, and.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Money is money and they want a quality product, Like,
we can't trust somebody from this area to do a
good job, even though you fucking can. You can't have
to encourage.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Yeah, you can trust people from the community to tell
their stories, actually a lot better than most unnoledgeable journalists
would be able to, because what most journalists consider objective
is actually just callous and crass because they don't put
a humanization to a lot of the things that they're saying.
They really tend to look at people as a business,
(15:28):
whereas you know, people are the point of the story.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
And also directly impacted by the story, So maybe pretend
that they exist when writing it, or them.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Right, there's going to be a ripple effect of what
you say that doesn't disappear just because the story's done
the next day. Like, what you say can impact people
for years decades to come. And sometimes when we talk
about things like hey, maybe you should have waited and
actually gotten the full story before you tell us and
(16:01):
jump the gun. A lot of times when we do
find out more information, those initials sensationalize big things that
become viral and get stuck in everybody's head.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Never get corrected, right, never, never.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
So thirty forty years later, people still think certain things
about a case in history that has actually no relevance
or merit. Or sometimes a person's mugshot comes up in
a suspected crime and it turns out that they weren't
the guilty but the fucking mugshot and that's the first
thing that pops up in their Google search when they're
trying to get a job. Yeah, Like, it can be
(16:35):
difficult because that is a position that a good portion
of journalists, mainstream media, and just the general concept of
the kind of way that we handle stories can be.
A lot of sources will shut down on people, but
good fuck those people. They shouldn't be telling the stories
in the first place anyways, So shut them down and
don't talk to their asses, kick them out of the protest,
(16:56):
do what you gotta do.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Like, I'm with it.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
You need the umbrellas to block the press, I'm with it.
But I think because of that, I've had an opportunity
to not only like be able to tell the kind
of stories that I think are important, but have the
sources trust me enough to do it, and trust me
(17:18):
enough to fight if someone tries to change the way
that the story is being written because.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Of editing or whatever, which I will. And so I
think that's been a big thing.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Like, for example, when there was the case of Willie
Brown that happened here in Sacramento. This was years ago now,
it feels like probably five or six, But there was
a man who was found hanging from a basketball court
in South Sacramento and the circumstances of the death were
extremely suspicious and it scientifically logically didn't make sense for
(17:51):
him to have gotten up there with nothing else around him,
with ladder, no whatever.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
But it was being very much treated as a suicide.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
And the family knew that they needed to get the
story out, but they also knew that it wasn't going
to be treated the right way. And I was the
only journalist that they inevitably would talk to because I
knew the family like first, because I was literally on
frontlines with them years before that, but just happened to
now be a journalist. So I think education is whatever.
(18:24):
Obviously I'm a dropout, so I can't be like education
is important because I clearly didn't value it. However, as
a parent who now has two children in college, I
do believe, like, hey, if that's the route, it's never
bad to have a backup, even if you decide to
be an artist, panhandling, busking, whatever you want to do.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
I don't care.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
But he doesn't hurt to have that because other people
view it as something. However, when you, as a journalist,
go through the very traditional education and the very traditional
route of journalism, it can really I think, take you
out of a big perspective that you're missing, and I
think it's going to really limit like the people being
(19:03):
willing to speak to you because you're coming from a
place that they don't understand, and you're they're coming from
a place they're not going to understand.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Yeah, and like I get the idea that you're going
to come in like I'm gonna pretend like I'm ignorant
to this, right or but like you're not or you are,
and both of those are problems. You're going to pretend
that it's like, uh, this idea that you're unbiased, right.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
I think the idea of objectivity is bullshit when it
comes to journalism. I don't think there is unless the
fucking Buddha is coming down and telling the story because
he understands.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Uality, it's always going to have your subjectivity.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
He did with some sort of opinion. I'm extremely biased
against certain things. I will never write a story that's
pro police, like I would never you know what I mean, Like,
there are certain things that my biases and my positions.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Not the story for me. No, And if you're doing counterpoint.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
No one would suggest it either because everyone knows that
by now.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
But yeah, I do that doesn't exist.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
And I think telling stories like those are even more important.
And when I think when sources are like, I don't
trust you to tell the story. That's another way that
you know how important the story it is to tell. Yes,
And so as journalists, if you consider yourself a storyteller,
which I do, and is ancestrally or responsibility, you have
(20:21):
to a work harder to be trustworthy of the communities
that you're going to be working with if you're not
from those communities, and b step out when it's not
your place, and be okay with stepping out and knowing
that that's not you being like, ah, I'm not a
good enough writer to.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Do this or whatever.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
It just means that, hey, there might be somebody that
can treat these people a little bit differently or get
the story out in a more effective way. Yeah, And
I think that that's hard for a lot of people,
especially now it's everyone's getting laid off.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
The freelance pool is no money.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Full of piss as the dating pool, Like, there's just
it's a lot. It's hard to survive as a freelance journalist.
It's been hard for the last eight years, but it's
definitely hard.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Yeah, But you're always making a new connection, always making
a new connection, always making a new connection. That's going
to help sustain right, Yeah, but it's still not. There's
no guarantees. They can all go away. They can lose
their authority like that. Yes, wins with time.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Yeah, editors, editors that you connect with get laid off.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yeah, a new jobs, all that.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
And so I because of that, I've never just done
like even when I've been that, oh, this is my career,
I'm a journalist, Like, I'm still not just a journalist.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
I still teach.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
I still like I have an art installation in San
Francisco coming up in November.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Like like, exactly when and exactly where.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Exactly when and exactly where is a great question. Exactly
when I don't I don't know the opening day. It's
a Dia de los Mortos exhibit, so typically it's going
to start somewhere between October thirty first and member second.
It's at Soma Arts and Cultural Center. The curators are
Rio Yaniez, who is the son of Renee Yanez, who
(22:09):
is a wonderful artist and Chicano activist in the San
Francisco Bay Area who originally started this exhibit decades ago,
and it's such an honor. We also have a local
Sacramento curator who is co curating with Rio. Her name
is Bridget Rex. She's also fucking amazing. I've worked with
her before. She had a Peace of Mind hanging in
(22:32):
Sacramento City Hall last year, which is super ironic because
I've been.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Kicked out of that place many times.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
But yeah, it's I've never maybe because I've always had
to hustle because I don't have the education, because I've
had to always like.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
Prove myself a little bit more.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
I've always got like four things where I'm like, Okay,
I also have to do this so I can make
money for that, so I can go and do this,
so I can you know. So yeah, I do everything
just to kind of make sure that I can still
survive as a journalist.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Yeah, it's fun.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Yeah, a lot of pots going, a lot of pots.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
And also I would like to just add no formal
education or been a little formal education. You are always learning,
You're always getting education somewhere teaching, so you clearly know something.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
No, And to say that I have like no education,
like I have a ninth grade education in terms of paperwork.
But to be fair, when I was skipping, I literally
went to the library just because I was reading the
stuff I wanted to read. Or I was at Tower
with the headphones on shout out Tower, Rest in Peace,
learning about music. Or I went up to sack City,
(23:40):
snuck into classes and then went and played chess at
the cafe.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Like I was a fucking nerd. It wasn't like I
was skipping, like and I.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Did all that too, you know, but it's just I
still learned many pots.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Yeah, lots of pots.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Pots gotten me through a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Yeah yeah. Like I I got all the way to
college for a whole year. There you go, and I did.
I sat down with my whatever they're called counselor counselor yeah, whatever,
and I switched majors like twice, and I went to
creative writing. Uh first as I liked writing, but second
because there's the fewest credits you needed to graduate. I
(24:19):
think because they wanted you to go to other things
to learn stuff so you can write. And he's like, hey, uh,
I've been reading the papers you've been submitting in your classes.
We're not gonna teach you anything you don't already know.
We're just gonna make you do it. And I'm like cool, Yeah,
I'm gonna go. Also, I can't afford it, so I'm
gonna go. Yeah, and then I immediately stopped writing, you know,
(24:42):
like a genius would do, and as is the way.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Yeah, yeah, but that's how it usually works.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
I definitely didn't write for a really long time after
having kids, like there was no there was no time
for that. But eventually they grew up and stopped bothering
me as much.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Shout out to the children.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Yeah yeah, and then yeah, you got I got a
chance to.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Get back into it.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
But yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Education is whatever you decide to educate yourself with, whether
it's self imposed.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
If Abraham Lincoln can do it, god damn it, so
can I. You know he was smart.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Now I have we do have to go soon. So
I wanted to run this by you. We have two paths.
We could take whatever path you want to go on,
or we can talk about why it is that newspapers
are not doing what they need to do because of
the new form of capitalism wherein advertising venue does not
really exist for them anymore, and they are struggling to
find out how to finance themselves. Which one do you
(25:34):
want to do? Oh?
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Wow, Okay, so wow.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
You were dancing around it.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
I know, I mean, I mean you seem like that
was a very well thought out concept.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
So I mean I would be vermiss to not go
down that path.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
And that's the end of it. They are struggling to
find out how to finance after advertise ISS bailed out
because there's no paper product. It's not normal to have
a newspaper delivered to your home and we are all
immune to online advertising. So how do you You have
no value to the advertisers, how do you make money?
You can't sell your paper product, and no one's paying
for a subscription where they can get it for free somewhere.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Else when they can get it for free somewhere else.
So poor, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Oftentimes, oftentimes, oftentimes the smartest thing for newspapers, in my mind,
would be to stop acting like those folks who are
doing all the independent work aren't doing the right thing
and just don't have the budget. Like, if you want
people to start buying your newspapers again, start treating the
news as though it's something to be dissected, analyze, learned from.
(26:35):
It's something to be treated with care. It's not something
that's paid for by whoever the fuck it is that
happens to pay for whatever hedge fund actually owns. Your
newspaper Sacramento Bee, Washington Posts, any of the real ones
that you anything that's owned by the fucking McClatchy Corporation,
anything that's probably owned by Herst at this point, I
don't know where Warren Buffett is.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Right now, but he's probably any of My point is.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
They're the News has now just basically become the biggest
advertisement for whatever propaganda machine is paying it. And if
the News actually wants to sell newspapers again, try using
the actual thing that you're supposed to be doing, which
is telling real stories.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
Get dumbfucks, like, it's really not that hard.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
You remember it for your constituents, your readers. It's for
your readers, it's not for your advertisers.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Right, look back, Like, if you really want to know
what you guys should be doing as newspapers, I suggest
going to newspapers dot com and looking at any newspaper
from between nineteen sixty three to nineteen seventy eight when
they actually dissected and analyzed the huge pictures of global
change that were going on in a massive scale at
the time and they weren't just doing it because they
(27:44):
were paid for by whatever fucking corporate shill they were
paid for. They were actually telling the fucking news. That's
how you sell the newspaper. You actually do your job.
That would be helpful.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Do you probably care because people can tell when you
don't do your job.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
You don't use that big fancy degree that you got
and like, do your job, and then you'd sell a paper.
Hire people who actually want to tell the stories that
are important and not just repeat the same stories over
and over again because they're trending at the time. We
get it there's a possible nuclear war? What the fuck
else is going on? Because I know there's a lot
(28:21):
of other shit going on right now, and until we
actually go to war, can we talk about something else?
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Yeah, it's just there's there's so many things, and we
only focus on the most fear mongering the most.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Because it gets the eyeballs.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
Because it gets the eyeballs because.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
They're still getting one because they're still not clicking your content.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
No one's no.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
I've I've clicked many many an article this week, and
I've paid not one subscription. And most of us know
how to get around all that your firewalls aren't that great.
So yeah, it's really just about actually going back to
what the news was intended to be. And I don't
mean like intended because of the fact that it's built
on the idea of systemic grade and considering the media
(29:01):
at the time when it was originally the was only
white people and had nothing to do with the communities
of culture or color that were relevant and prevalent at
the time, which is pretty much exactly what's happening right now.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
So realistically, it's just history repeating itself.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
So maybe you should stop doing the same fucking thing
that you always do and try to.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
World is still through the college system, which is still
anyway anyway.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
This is why I drink or child because it really
gets me riled up. Yeah, that's I mean, it seems simple,
but it's when you're indoctrinated and under the thumb of capitalism,
you know, people get real dumb and the simple could
become extremely complex.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
But it doesn't have to be.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Just blink and bear through it and tell the actual
news and do your actual job. And I bet you
see people actually subscribing to your paper. I know when
I worked at the b subscriptions when I know they
went down when I got blacklisted.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
Do your fucking jobs, do you know what I mean? Anyway?
Speaker 1 (29:58):
I mean, if there's one thing that I companies going
to do, it's going to be fear change, right, even
when all the data says you should yeah, no, and
that what you're currently doing is not working.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Right. Change is legitimately the only thing that's constant besides death,
so I don't and even death is changed. So really
it's just change. Yeah, So just change weirdos.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Yeah, maybe it doesn't work, maybe you took the wrong lesson,
but at least you're not stuck in a loop that
you know is not helping.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
And that's the other thing.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Change takes more than six months of an implication of
a policy. So like you can't pull a token DEI
whatever whatever equity funding.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
We're going to make journalism about the community.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
You can't do that for six months worth of a
grant and go, well, didn't work. I think it didn't,
you know, I think, I mean whatever, Like we're just
gonna let it go after that. Change is constant, but
being able to adapt and grow and evolve with that
change takes time.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
It takes patients it takes effort, and.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
It's not always going to get you a million clicks,
but considering they don't translate to your money anyway, you
might as well take the risk and actually make the effort.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
And like stand with conviction maybe and courage just a
little bit. I mean, we have war correspondence, you, Courage
is part of the job. Why can't the people that
are on the top be like, I also have bravery
in my.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Heart right right.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
And for all the people that are like, they're shooting
journalists now, just be happy that the journalists are actually
finally getting close enough to get fucking shot, because how
were they telling the stories when they were so far
away from the fucking front lines.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
That they had no idea what was happening in the
first place.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
So shout out to the journalists getting shot, not so
much the cops that are shooting there.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Yeah, I mean, wasn't happening, But at least it's the risk,
is there?
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Yeah? Absolutely, I've got battle scars from many a thing,
many many a toxic and many a bullet and many
a thing. And that's where you're supposed to be if
you're actually going to tell the stories.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
If you're not fuck are you doing here? Yeah, but
that's just me. I'm annoying and opinionated.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
That's just me. Live on a hand, drinking.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
With a side of Leo love a classy hippie aka
Broadway Coffee AKA the only spot that I will usually
go out in public for aka my favorite place in
oak Park to be unless it's at the Shore Center
down the street.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
I think, like I said, I have no outro to this,
but I'm like, I do have to leave.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Okay, that's atro I have to leave. Yeah, I have
to leave.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
I'm gonna go find something to drink that's not this.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
No.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
I also Broadway Coffee incredible, So glad it's here. I
don't get here nearly enough. When I was sorry, I
don't know how.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
To end things, he said he had to leave, and
yet say.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
I don't know how to do.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
That is the effect I have on Pece.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
This is my This is the effect that I have
on myself. I don't know how to leave a conversation.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
It's fine, I'm.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
A story, damn it.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
I'm an Irish good bye person. But I guess you
can't really do that with equipment.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
So if you want to be like I have to
leave Irish Goodbye.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Hey, thanks for whatever you were doing. And if you're
at your office writing the next great journalistic piece, or
or sleeping, I don't I don't care. Thanks for thanks
for listening or watching. I don't know why you're watching. Bye,
it's great.
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