Have Celtics, Thunder Been Exposed? Are Nuggets, Pacers Already Toast?

Episode 172: Are the Minnesota Timberwolves as dominant as they've looked so far against the Denver Nuggets? Have the referees been helping the New York Knicks past the Indiana Pacers? Are the Dallas Mavericks and Cleveland Cavaliers actual threats to the Oklahoma City Thunder and Boston Celtics, respectively? Arky Shea and Joel C. Cordes check in on each 2024 NBA Playoffs semifinal series.

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Welcome into basketball by association. TheARKI is trying to keep his kids quiet
a napping addition, my name isArkie Shave as Joelsey Court as Joel How
about this? It takes what sixteenwins to get to get yourself an NBA
championship in the playoffs, and ifI'm not mistaken, there's only a couple

(00:27):
of them that are already at six. And I think you're looking at the
guys who on the teams like we'rekind of the guys on these teams.
You wouldn't know about the shirt you'rewearing, but it's not the Portland Trip
Blazers. Blazers. But I'm agnosticwhen it comes to supporting the league almost
all the teams that that is true. Theoretically, yes, you support all

(00:49):
of them until it comes to theplayoff time. So let's get into some
of this here playoff action, andlet's waste a zero time because it's hot
and heavy. I want to startfirst, if you don't mind with the
games that happened last night, canwe talk about if you don't mind first,

(01:14):
Dallas evening the series not bad,huh? Coming back with a big
win against Okay C and Luca playingwell, the team playing really well in
Oklahoma City, and Kyrie giving methe first gross talk I've heard from him
this year, which he said,going leaving the arena, he said,

(01:36):
it was definitely Oklahoma out there,which was nas But anyway, Dallas coming
back to what we thought they mightbe able to do, which was to
make this a competitive, good series. The only thing I sort of worried
about, Joel was sort of howDallas would be if Luca wasn't healthy,
because the thing I did not likeseeing was how much Lucas struggled early in

(02:00):
one. Luca did go down andwas a little hurt in that game,
but still you're talking about a guywho's clearly hurt, had four days in
between the end of their series inthe start of this one, and still
despite that, you know, gameone sort of early injury thing, I
still wasn't looking Luca esque, Andof course the injuries have kind of dominated

(02:23):
a lot of the playoff talk thisyear. But if Luca could be somewhat
okay, they've got a shot andthis could be a decent series. Luca
took some hard spills in Game twoas well, hit his face on the
floor early on and almost knocked outa tooth, had another tough spill later

(02:43):
on. There's a couple of otherguys. Daniel Gafford injured his hand in
that third quarter of that game.Derek Jones Junior went down hard. It's
a tough, physical series. Everybody'sbattling through it, and it is that
time of year. So on theone hand, yes there's a lot of
injuries, but there's always a lotof injuries when it comes to the playoffs.
And you and I have said fora couple of years it's no secret
that the healthiest team standing is oftenthe one standing with the trophy at the

(03:07):
end of the season. Too.Dallas, they changed some things up,
and it's similar in a way towhat Cleveland did in order to even their
Game two with Boston and even theirseries. Dallas pushed the pace a lot
more. They were a quicker teamthis year than they had been in the
Luca era, and they made amuch more concerted effort of trying to get

(03:28):
defensive rebounds and instead of just getthe ball to Luca and let him trot
the ball down and then they getinto their offense against a loaded athletic Oklahoma
City defense, they were outletting alot more, they were backdoor cutting a
lot more, they were making decisionsa lot quicker. And truth of the
matter is, the ball just startedto go down for some of their role
players. They started to make shots. There was a lot of missed shots

(03:51):
in Game one for the Dallas Mavericks, and that was very similar to their
Game one against the LA Clippers.They couldn't find the basket. I think,
especially in OKC, that crowd getsbehind the thunder. If you've got
you know, role players that thisis their first semi finals appearance. You
know that's true of PJ. Washington, That's true of Gafford, that's true

(04:12):
of Derek Lively. Obviously, therookie Josh Green, Dante exem those are
guys who in Game one, cominginto that situation, even if they've played
in Oklahoma City before, the RIM'sjust going to be a little bit smaller.
But having another couple of days thereto practice, they were much more
confident and a big help. TimHardaway Junior, who was unplayable in Game
one, I mean he was onthe floor but gave them nothing with all

(04:35):
the russ that he had seventeen pointsin nineteen minutes. PJ. Washington twenty
nine points, eleven boards in hisforty minutes, and very helpful defensively.
Dallas was active in the passing lane. They were just this is so cliche,
but in this case it's absolutely true. In Cleveland's case, it was
absolutely true. They were the moreaggressive team offensively and defensively, and they

(04:57):
just played the lanes better and theball COOPERA, Yeah, I think it's
sort of fair to say that.You know, sometimes when you look at
some of these games. We're aboutto talk about another one last night,
where one team's buckets just kept goingin and another teams shots wouldn't that Sometimes
you get those, you know,some sometimes you get those, And it's
fortunate for Dallas because they were aboutto be in a tough hole, but

(05:19):
they were going to have that toughtwo hole if they had it coming back
home, and that wouldn't be theworst case scenario potentially for them. But
yeah, I agree with you thatthat this was felt more to me like
a case of just things went rightas far as the ball going in.
I don't think there was a lota ton of change, uh, in

(05:42):
what Dallas was doing overall. Idon't think that they looked particularly better in
what they were doing. I justthink that the result ended up being better,
and they brought more energy. Theybrought more energy yet, and think
more energy in game two than one, because I mean, for me,
it's hard to sort of see thatsometimes, but unless it's like really noticeable,
I didn't. I know. Theythey defended I think as hard,

(06:06):
but they defended smarter. In gametwo. They played passing lanes instead of
just playing up against these athletic thunderplayers who were backdoor cutting them a lot
when they tried to overplay the man, So they played the lane a lot
more this time. That effort onthe glass felt relatively the same, but
they were able to generate more steels. I think the energy difference, though

(06:28):
it was offensively where you saw alot more backdoor cutting, and it wasn't
just about watching Kyrie or Luca makea move and then make a pass.
And they were also getting into theiroffense earlier in the shot clock. That
was part of the outletting down court, getting some easier baskets. Getting into
it at the nineteen second mark insteadof the fourteen second mark makes all the

(06:49):
difference in the world. A lotof times and then just being more decisive
with it. If you can survivea night up in Oklahoma City where Kyrie
Irving gives you nine points out elevenassists, but you never felt like Kyrie
was having a bad game, evenon eight shots. He was that active
defensively, that active moving the basketball. He was getting in there into the

(07:11):
passing lane, and that was indicativeof everybody who was out there. It
was a much better cohesive team effort, and the MAVs again bailed out by
the fact that they had two otherscores to go with Luca. Normally it's
Kyrie and then whoever else steps upthat game one. It really wasn't anybody
besides Luca and Kyrie carrying that load. But for PJ. Washington to give
you twenty nine points, seven threes, and Tim Hardaway to chip in in

(07:35):
those limited minutes, that feels likethe mix at Dallas needs. They need
those three guys. It can't justbe Luca was fine enough, but like
you said, he's laboring right now. He's not explosive. I doubt he
could dunk the basketball even on awide open breakaway, which normally he can.

(07:55):
He can still knock down a three, but he's oftentimes releasing and playing
off a one leg, and youcan see that difference. Yeah, and
the big strength to his game islike that step back right, Like that
step back shot is just it's lethal, and he's got to do it off
that right leg and that leg.It's just that needs just not good right
now. It's you could tell likeit's just he suffered. So it's it's

(08:16):
gonna be the rest of playoffs forhim. Like he's not gonna be able
to be fixed anytime soon. Ithought, if we're going to see anything,
it's the time in between game winninggame two. Maybe we see somebody
looked a little fresher, maybe hada little bit heel time. But I
mean, he may have something donein the offseason for them, and we
don't know better yet. So Iwant to talk about the thunder real quick
too, just to point out thatas much as Dallas did well Oklahoma City,

(08:37):
you saw their youth when things gota little bit tough. There were
uncharacteristic turnovers late in the game andeven late in the third quarter. And
yes, they only had ten totals, so it's not like they were coughing
it up a bunch, but itwas uncharacteristic for them. There was indecision
on many of the turnovers that Isee. Yeah, they were having about
behind the whole way. Yeah theywere, and they weren't. It wasn't

(09:01):
an unsurmountable margin the entire game.It's just like they were. They were
either on top of or ahead ofNew Orleans for the majority of that series
before this time in the game wasone of the first ones. Word.
For the majority of the game,they were happy to stake stay within strike
a distance and try to make arun to get back, and when it
came down to the net crunching time, they they You're right. I think

(09:24):
they made some of those mistakes thatthey just hadn't been forced into because of
the predicament. Predicament that they hadbeen in with the game. So that's
a good call. And Shiite,you'll just Alexander thirty three points, twelve
rebounds, eight assists, a stealin two blocks. That's a great box
score, but minus six when hewas on the floor. That rarely ever
happens for the thunder that he's aminus. Josh Giddy was minus twenty in

(09:48):
eleven minutes. Think about that,and then the other for the other thing
that stands out for the Thunder isyou know, you talk about Dallas needing
three scorers, that's pretty typical formost NBA rosters. Alexander had thirty three
points, Jalen Williams had twenty.Only Chet Holmgren was in double figures for
the rest of the Thunder roster,and that was with eleven, so they

(10:09):
were missing that third guy. Dallasdid a good job of not letting Chet
walk all over them like they didin Game one. He was really I
think the X factor in that theylet Shi Gildess Alexander get what he's gonna
get because it's really impossible to stopthem. But in forty one minutes,
it just kind of felt like hewas getting some points, he was making
an impact, but it was never, Oh, he's controlling the game,

(10:31):
he's in charge of this. AndI couldn't have told you how many points
Jalen Williams had. I would haveguessed maybe ten to twelve. For him
to be twenty. Again, itjust didn't feel impactful and nobody else really
stood out. So expect again theThunder to come out with a lot of
energy in Game three. It'll bein Dallas. The crowd will be in
it. The thing to remember thatthis year in the West, this is

(10:54):
the two five, no the oneto five matchup. Seven games separated these
two teams in the regular season standing, So it's not as if the Thunder
had proven themselves to be head andshoulders better than Dallas, just slightly better,
and they're gonna have to work forthis one big time. Dallas has
got enough veterans to make this interesting. They do, they do, and

(11:16):
that's why we'll go to another gameor another series based off this way.
All of these series except for one, I think you and I both thought
was probably gonna be six or sevengames, probably, and this was one
of those. This was not oneof those series that we thought was gonna
be easy PC for anybody. SoI originally wrote down Dallas winning this in
seven over Okase, and I meanwinning game two helps. Yeah, we'll

(11:41):
see how that goes. Boston destroysCleveland Game one, Cleveland destroys Boston Game
two. Hey for Boston in theplayoffs this year, same song, different
verse, right. We What wedo see is that Cleveland shot much better
from three again, as we sawin game two last week. Last series
against Miami off Boston was putrid.They just couldn't get anything in the three

(12:05):
is the major part of their game. They make no bones about it,
like that they are going to shootthrees and shoot threes and shoot threes.
Were they eight of twenty three onthirty five attempts or whatever? Yeah,
it's just bad. And that's oneof those nights that if another team is
hot enough, they made five more, that's it's just five more. But

(12:26):
Cleveland from the outset, they madethe shots they had to. Boston never
really got into a rhythm. AndBoston again drops one at home, right,
you don't expect them to drop oneat home. Cleveland's the one coming
off the seven game series, andnow we're split up, one one going
to uh Cleveland. Yeah, Andin the Cavs case, I don't think
any of us were really impressed withthat seven game series win over the magic

(12:50):
they got. Oh yeah, thehome the home team won every time.
It was defensive oriented, but itwas kind of a walk it up,
you know, slug it out typeof series, and and Cleveland's offense never
got on track. And then ingame one there we're really beginning to worry,
you know, are the Cavs thishampered offensively despite adding all of these

(13:11):
other shooters who suddenly can't shoot theball in the playoffs. And while Max
Strus was only two of seven andGeorgie's Nag still didn't hit a three during
that game against Boston, Donovan Mitchellfive of seven, Darius Garland four of
five, Isaacaccoro one of one,Evan Mobley one of two. So all

(13:31):
five of the Cleveland Cavaliers starters hita three. Nobody off the bench,
including Karris Lavert, hit anything.But Lavert did have twenty one points,
and he's been missing in action througha lot of these playoffs, way below
his regular season average. This isnot the first time this has happened to
LeVert over the last couple of yearswith the Calves either. But you're right,

(13:52):
all of a sudden, the shotstarted falling. I think a lot
of that had to do with MaxStrus hitting his first shot, Donovan Mitchell
hitting his first couple. Arland sawthe first couple go through. Cleveland jumped
out to that early early lead,and even though they were only up thirty
to twenty four after the first quarter, it did since there was a psychological
sigh of relief like oh, theball can go in the basket for us,

(14:16):
like there is a reason we gothere to the fourth seed and into
the semifinals. And here again threescorers. You get Mitchell with twenty nine,
Mobly with twenty one, and thenKarris Lavert with twenty one off the
bench, plus you have three otherCaves in double figures. And most importantly,
they shoot over fifty percent from thefloor. How is that possible?
When they were okay, you know, forty six percent from downtown it was

(14:39):
healthy. The Calves pushed the paceagain, outletting up the court, moving
it quickly up the court when theball handler had it, and then back
door cutting the crap out of Boston, probably even better than Dallas did against
Okasee. The Calves stopped setting onescreen for Donovan Mitchell or Darius Gard and

(15:00):
just parking their shooters who couldn't hitshots in the corners. There was movement
away from the ball action. AnytimeBoston overplayed, which they typically do because
they are a pressure defense. Youknow, not only they have the individual
defenders, but the team concept aswell in Boston. But anytime they overplayed
that Cleveland very very clearly backdoor cutting. That was obviously a point of emphasis,

(15:24):
and it worked, and Boston willof course adjust and Game three will
be yet another animal you know overin Cleveland. Yeah, I this is
where you know. So we talkedabout before with Boston and Miami. If
you're Boston and a feint of bustle, would you be nervous after a game?
I said yes after one and thenMiami or Miami went on and got

(15:46):
blowed up the rest of the series. Boston has the ability to blow up
a team. But the different tieris, uh, Cleveland is much deeper
than what Miami is, much healthiertoo. They have duders who actually can
get on the court and play roleplayers and star their stars to get on
the court and play. At thispoint, so if I'm Boston, fans

(16:10):
still a little worried, still justa little bit worried because you hate to
lose these games at home, rightit is? It is tough, tough,
tough to be that good that teamif you're Boston. Uh, and
to sort of see what happened earlyon in the Miami series and to have
it happen again against against Cleveland towhere literally it's just a cool it was

(16:33):
a cool shooting star for Boston andthen it got to a cold shooting stretch
for the for the rest of theway, and then slowly but surely,
Cleveland just kept inching up that lead, just going up and up and up.
And no matter how explosed to thatBoston team is, if you can't
make the threes, and they clearlycouldn't, you're gonna shoot yourself out of
a game. And they shot themselvesout of that game. Uh, and
so we'll be and I mean,let's let's be real too. They got

(16:57):
all worked. Cleveland came into thatfirst game against Boston a little bit lackadaisical,
as if the effort level and thespeed that had worked against Orlando just
barely was going to get it doneagainst the number one team in the East,
the team that won sixty four games. You know, it's not.
It is a big difference in theEastern Conference. It's a sixteen game difference

(17:18):
between the way Boston and Cleveland finished. But you saw Cleveland in game two.
They were the ones hustling, andI thought Boston came out a little
bit too cool, as if theywere satisfied with what they had done in
game one and they figured that wouldbe enough. They got out rebounded forty
four to thirty one. So ateam that didn't have Jared Allen out rebounds
of Celtics forty four to thirty oneand outshoots them. That's you're not going

(17:41):
to do very well with that.But I'm looking at Cleveland and you said
something interesting about how they're deeper thanBoston. Sure, not deeper than Boston.
I mean they were deeper than Miamis. Oh oh yeah, yeah,
And maybe I misunderstood that. Butyou know, Cleveland is is trotting out
to guys two veterans who, yes, they can execute the game plan,

(18:03):
but Mark if Morris senior and TristanThompson every time they're out there, and
sorry, Marcus Moore, a senior, both are reminding us that their time
in the league is quickly drawing toan end and that they probably shouldn't be
rotation level guys. They're exposed everysingle time. And so really Cleveland has

(18:23):
Karris LeVert, who's been ice colduntil Game two and maybe this will get
him jump started. And Georgi isNang who is completely ice cold and is
supposed to be a three point shooterand can't hit the broadside of a barn
right now. Sam Merrill, whoplayed three minutes in Game two but played
much more in Game one, that'sit. So if I'm Cleveland and I
do finally get Jared Allen back,I might be tempted to bring Alan off

(18:48):
the bench just to try to shoreup that second unit and not send Isaac
Acorro to the bench, who gavethem twelve points and twenty one minutes and
is a plus defender but not necessarilya great shooter, so he's not going
to give you an offensive burst fromthe bench. Do I send Max Struce
to the second unit and hope thathe can fill the role that Yang and
Sam Merrill are supposed to. Maybe, but then you run that risk of

(19:12):
Cleveland not having enough shooting on thefloor on that front line between Alan,
Mobley and Akoro, and you're backto asking Garland and Mitchell to be all
of your three point shooting. Soif I'm Cleveland, I'm going to try
to stretch this series as long asI can to where I can get Jared
Allen back and I maybe try toshore up that second unit, and then
it's just you know, saying allyour prayers that LeVert doesn't have one of

(19:34):
these up and down type of seriesthat he stays up and aggressive and that
one of the other bench shooters maybecomes to play. If I'm Boston,
I'm actually not real worried about thisother than I look at the tape and
I go, we got to upour intensity level. We got to stop
getting back door cut and overplaying.That's a mental thing as much as it

(19:56):
is a scheme thing. And wegot to keep the rebounding battle even.
And if we do that, we'rejust gonna trust that the shooting percentages are
going to regress and progress to thenorm, because Boston's been by far the
better shooting team than Cleveland down thestretch of the season. Here. Yeah,
if I'm Boston, I'm a littleworried, like if I'm the fan,
if I'm the team itself, Iknow that this has a chance to

(20:17):
balance itself out pretty quickly. Thatgoing to Cleveland game three got a shot
that if you play, I don'tknow, shoot forty percent from three,
you know that's a very different gamethan what it is. Uh. And
what was that the eighteen twenty fourpoint game they ended up being against Boston?
All right over to the west wego, Chelsey Cordaz, I,

(20:40):
listen, we don't believe in Jenxea'shere, and I know some people don't
want to say things out loud becauseof the Genxy's. I don't personally believe
in the Genxies. Although we weretexting back and forth when I think it
was like eighty to fifty or somethinglike in favor of Minnesota, and I
fell back because I think Minnesota andgave up like the next ten points or

(21:00):
twelve point and I was like,well, I thought that. After your
text, I was like, see, but an all time defensive effort that
was crazy. How do you thinkthat was the effort more so from Minnesota
in game two? Or do youthink Denver wasn't expecting that kind of aggression

(21:22):
because listen, Jamal Murray was nothappy after the game, like he was
like, and I don't mean like, man, this frustrated did not sort
of seem I guess himself right,like it just it seemed like it got
to him, like it got toall that constant, full core pressure which

(21:42):
they were not expecting, clearly gotto them. So I don't I want
to know from you it was agreat effort defensively for Minnesota to be able
to be up to nothing in thisseries. But do you think that's more
Minnesota's game plan when it happened,or do you think that Denver was sort
of caught off guard by that anddid not be a that's very well,
there's no way that Denver should havebeen caught off guard because they had they

(22:07):
play in the same division as Minnesota, they saw him four times during the
regular season, they match up withthem last year during the playoffs. Minnesota
has built this season on their defenseand it's been the number one defense both
in the regular season and the postseason. So that part is no surprise.
Where Denver might have took their footoff the gas pellet a little bit was

(22:30):
the game time decision essentially of RudyGobert is not going to be here.
Oh that's a different Minnesota scheme thannormal, and yeah, they'll be good
defensively, but we're going to beable to try to get some things done.
And when Minnesota instead was swarming andhounding, and guys like Karl Anthony
Towns, who you know, isan if the defender at best, had

(22:52):
probably his best defensive game of theseason and really did a nice job of
walling up Nikola Jokic making them more. Jokic was sixteen points, sixteen boys,
eight assists, but four turnovers,all of those in the first quarter,
and minus sixteen for the game.That was where I think it was
unexpected, and then Denver just couldn'tThey couldn't adjust. But I also think

(23:15):
frustration set in because it was oneof those nights where not only was Denver
not hitting three point shots, theywere nine to thirty for thirty percent,
but even point blank at the basket. The ball was just not cooperating at
home, and Minnesota was extremely physicaland the refs were letting them play,
and it is one of those classicgames where things just snowballed out of control.

(23:37):
I had a lot of people whotexted me either during the game or
after the game, fellow Wolves fansor NBA fans who know that I'm a
big Wolves fan, and I thinkyou're probably the third or fourth person who
said this is one of or thebest defensive efforts I have ever seen.
It was nice, Yeah, itwas nuts, man like. Look,

(24:00):
Jamal Murray, he has seen everythingin this league, right like, And
Jamal Murray was visibly on the courtfrustrated. Three of eighteen from the field
to zero four from downtown. Jokicis making turnovers. You just don't see
him make, right, Like thisteam was baffled from the very beginning of

(24:22):
that game. And it's it justyou just don't in today's offensive NBA.
You just don't see those kind ofin the playoffs where two teams are fairly
similarly like matching up, you justdon't see those kind of efforts, especially
those efforts to just frustrate a teamwholeheartedly. For like the entire game,

(24:44):
second third efforts not only on doubleteams and traps, but on closeouts,
and the rotations were about as perfectas they could be. When somebody did
get beat, the next defender wasup and the guy who got beat was
flying to the opposite side of thecourt to go cover the backside the way
that they're supposed to. So itwas a good game plan, it was
good execution. It was one ofthose nights where the wolf shots more or

(25:06):
less we're falling. Although their numbersdon't like scream off the page, in
the mind that as a whole,that was their whole defense. I'll say
this, yeah talked about before thisseries, Anthony Edwards was he gonna have
to have a couple of these thirtyfive forty forty five point games. He
showed out the first two games.Andy Edwards has been every bit of what
the advertise coming into this game.He had twenty seven. In Game two,

(25:27):
Towns had twenty seven and twelve aswell, and then just two other
players in double figure scoring. Bothcame off the bench and I was reading
Akille Alexander Walker, those are theusual suspects for that Wolve's bench. They
both chipped in fourteen. So yeah, Minnesota only scores one hundred and six.
You can see that it's kind ofa slug fest, and even Minnesota
was a little bit below what theiraverage would be just going back to Minnesota.

(25:51):
Now, as the series shifts,this has got to be something that
the Wolves build off of, notsomething that they're satisfied with. But they
also have to be careful that Denverdoes not make an adjustment with their incredibly
smart players. They're incredibly smart coachand the four time MVP, three time
MVP, I should say, inNikola Jokic, who is the best passing

(26:14):
big man of all time, touse that aggression against them, because the
next adjustment Denver will make is totry to backdoor cut the crap out of
Minnesota for over pursuing everything. Andthey're going to try to get the ball
out of Jamal Murray and Nikola Jokic'shands quicker before the double team is coming,
but they're going to try to getit back to them instead. Right

(26:37):
now, it's been initiating the offenseout of those two to try to get
Gordon and Porter and you know ContaviousCallwell Pope those guys set up. But
watch for them to start running JamalMurray off of things instead of having them
on the ball. Watch them tobe able to get the ball to Jokic
with ten twelve seconds and to goto work. Here's the other issue within
this series, and this will bethe last for me that again, it

(27:00):
comes down to what you said atthe top of the show. Health Murray
is dealing with the calf issue.Caldwell Pope is visibly banged up and has
been a shell of himself even duringthe LA series. Michael Porter Junior has
had some issues. Reggie Jackson reallyshouldn't even be out there playing like he's
out there gutting through it right now, but he's he's falling over repeatedly when

(27:25):
he's out there because his balance isnot there. And I know he got
in the highlights because Anthony Edward crossedhim up and he fell over. But
it's like, dude, you're crossingup a guy who has been on his
butt multiple times in this game already, like Reggie Jackson is not right.
And kudos to them again for pushingthrough it, because Denver just does not
have any guard depth behind those three. But meanwhile, Minnesota, as far

(27:48):
as we know, has all healthyguards and has four or five really good
ones to choose from in Mike Conley, Anthony Edwards, you know, Monte
Morris off the bench, Nikila,Alexander Walker off the bench. Then you
can bring in a guy like JordanMcLaughlin who will run the point for you,
and all those big, long wingsthat they have. Minnesota is the
deeper team right now and the healthierteam, and they were the team that

(28:12):
was the number one seed in theconference up until the final week of the
season. Denver finished one game aheadof them. So for everybody who's like,
oh, this is a major upsetthat Minnesota is up to, oh
on Denver, It's like, no, no, no, no, no.
I get Denver is the chances,but this is no upset. These
are two very evenly matched up teamsin the same division who know each other

(28:34):
backwards and forward. It's an upsetbecause we know who Denver is. We
don't know Minnesota large scale wise.Yet you're finding out. You're finding out
right now, Hey, real quickbefore we move on to the final series.
Thoughts on Jamal Murray not getting notgetting suspended for throwing out the Haiti
pad on the court. I thoughtit was an easy call to suspend him.

(28:56):
I know, I know the commissionerdoesn't really like to do that,
but no one does that. Playersjust don't throw stuff on the court at
other players or at referees. That'sgarbage that literally through at the feeding.
It could have hurt two different playersin that same moment had not been the
heads up throw away of that.So I don't like it. Yeah,
I thought it was suspendable easily toget a fine. No way, come

(29:19):
on. I understand the refs missingthe call in the moment. They said,
we did not see where it camefrom. We had no idea.
We didn't want to, like randomlyjust try to eject somebody, So I
get that, but in hindsight,knowing where it came from and the mystery
assauld if you're going to suspend PatrickBeverley for four games next year, which

(29:44):
is I think appropriate, then youshould be suspending Jamal Murray for probably two,
I would think. And again,yes, that screws the chance over
but the NBA picking and choosing aboutwhen they want to enforce certain things,
that is not a good look.That kind of goes back to what we'll
talk about in a few minutes withyou know, Rick Carlisle complaining about the
New York Indiana series. And whileI think Carlisle's complaints are biased and overblown

(30:11):
a little bit, you still dosee that where yes, the referees,
since the All Star Break it clearlywas a league mandate, have stepped back
and let the game be more physical. It's not just the playoffs that have
been more physical. It was thefinal two months of the season that were
that way. And so there's alot of things now that guys are,
you know, launching towards the rim, getting knocked down, getting no call,

(30:33):
and that used to be they wouldget to the line over and over.
But it still is happening at timeswhere certain players do that, or
certain players just get a hand onan elbow on a close out and they
go to the line, but nobodyelse is getting that call anymore, and
that's where the inconsistency and that's wherethe red flags jump up at times,

(30:56):
especially now that gambling is legalized inthe NBA. And that's an easy scapegoat,
but it also is something where peopleare going to be more in tuned
to that being an issue, especiallybecause the NBA has a couple of black
eyes in it's passed, you know, just a couple of years not a
couple of years ago, but youknow, less than twenty years ago where

(31:18):
that was a real concern and aquestion mark about whether the refs were calling
it the way that they should ornot. So that is concerning, yes,
ARCHI that he did not get suspendedfor a league. Also, this
is so protective of its refs,right like it's so protective of the officials,
and I understand it's an integrity ofthe game. You should protect them

(31:38):
to a degree. Basically only havehaving like a last two minute report essentially
out there to be answered for tothen have a player throw something while the
game was happening towards a ref.The ref wouldn't even have been injured by
any stretch of the imagination a place. It's just reckless. And it was

(32:00):
so surprising when I thought I throwwhen I saw it on the floor and
you know what's his name had tothrow it off the court. I thought
there was something from behind, likea member of fan or something from behind
it. There was no way Ithought it was Jamal Murray who was throwing
off the bench under the court.And when I saw that in real time
or I guess in a replay afterwards, was like, Jamal, dude,

(32:22):
you get paid a trillion dollars,you know how? No, what is
this? Like? This is why? Like I got upset with Joel Embiid
and what he did with Mitchell Robinsonwho basically knocked them out of the playoffs
essentially, which is you know betteryou you of anybody knows better about this
that should be punishable, right,And Joel Embiid got away with it.

(32:45):
Two you know there's another star,another star kind of getting away from it.
I just don't. I just don'tget it, Like I don't get
it. It's not like they werewithin five points in that game anyway,
they were getting trounced. I'll saythat's for Jamal Murray this and this is
probably something that played into the decision, although I still disagree with it.

(33:07):
If you want to play in thedecision about his past, then suspend him
for one game instead of two orthree or whatever. That's why I that
was a minimum, like you gottabe out for game three, like you
got to. Yeah, I agree, I have one hundred percent agree.
And it's not because all I wantMinnesota have some advantage, and it was
if it was Anthony Edwards who hadthrown it, I would have said,

(33:29):
he's got to be out for games. What's a knucklehead thing to do from
someone who clearly has to know better, Like that's his livelihood out there?
Does he want somebody having free reinto throw something at his feet while he's
playing? Right, Jamal Murray,this has to be the strike. This
is the one that goes all right, now you're on a short leash.
Now the referees are watching you.If your mouth and off in game three,

(33:50):
or you're showing those signs, oryou get anywhere near that border line
again, it is a quick ejection, a quick book. It is the
league not caught him after this.If you want to say, what,
We've never had an issue with thisguy before, He's never been suspended.
This is unlike him. Whatever,still should be a one game suspension,
because if anybody else said that,if that had been you know, Julian

(34:13):
Strather, rookie for the Denver Nuggetswho barely plays and is on you know,
sitting at the edge of the benchand he throws that in, or
Zeke Nagy one of those guys theythrow it in. I guarantee you they're
getting suspended. The League will makean example. I guarantee it. I
know people were pointing in the factthat there's no precedent for it's like,
well, then this is where youset the president like the like. The

(34:35):
reason they're to the president is becauseno player throwing stuff on the floor before.
But when it happens, guys getobjected if they leave the bench right
right. Sometimes unless you're unless you'reMike Malone, who's allowed to leave the
bench. Yeah, screen furst himout and say all of the magic words,
not just one of them, allof the magic words, sorry,
and doesn't even get teed up.Would you say it was not a freaking

(34:58):
charge. What you say, it'snot you can charge doesn't even get teed
up that was Those are the thingsthat make you go, what is going
on here? And how can Imean, I can understand one referee missing
it, but how can three?Yeah? How can three? That's where
the questions arise that are valid inthe league needs to protecting. I think

(35:22):
there's a chance we see the weirdrule added this off season where if something
winds up on the floor, they'regoing to go and be able to replay
it. I don't remember what gameit was this season, but I saw
somebody lost a water bottle onto thecourt and the bench got teed up.
They didn't know, like it gotkicked. Somebody kicked it out. It

(35:44):
was not intentional. It was latein the season. I don't remember the
game. It was just a regularseason game, but the water bottle came
out on the court. Somebody hadkicked it. The refs were upset but
that had happened. They teed upthe bench, not to a specific player,
seemed valid, like, yes,it was an accident, but come
on, now, you're getting paidto know where your feet are and whether

(36:06):
you accidentally you know, bopped thewater bottle out or not. Like it's
a stopage of play. So whywasn't this I don't know. Moving on,
Yeah, so let's get the finallast series out here. It's the
New York Knicks up to nothing onthe crab Baby Pacers. Uh ri Carla
oh man, this is uh,there's there's so much dumb meat on the

(36:28):
bone for me with this game.But Willis Reid had a pretty good sorry,
uh, Jalen Brunson had a prettypretty game. So Jalen Brunson,
Yeah, calls, can't really tellwhere he got her call to come out

(36:50):
of the game. It's fine.Uh o g iob happens to be playing
maybe the best playoff game he's everplayed. Yeah, he just maybe,
I guess it actually probably is thebest playoff game he's ever played in that
first app keeping the Knicks in it, Well, let's three comes back out
ready to ready to give his besteffort, plays a really good second half,

(37:12):
and then it's come back a brilliantthird quarter to get back on top
of things, and they end upholding on and beating Indiana for a game
two. But that's not the mostimportant thing at this point, all right,
because the Knicks will move on toGame three without Ohgo because he ended
up getting hurt in that game andthe Knicks are down to four basketball players.
It feels like the Tom Tibodew willeven want to play. But let's

(37:36):
first start with some of the offthe court stuff from Rick Carlisle, who
has been fined thirty five thousand dollarsfor criticizing the refs. He's also sent
what he calls seventy eight misscalls inthe first two games, which, by
the way, have there been seventyeight plays? I don't know. It
feels like a lot of miscalls,but it has been what I would say,

(37:58):
at the very least an inn inconsistentlycalled series. Now I can go
back. We can go back toMiles Turner and what happened at the at
the end of game Game one,right where he sets the screen, he
gets called for it. The NBAeves set afterwards, and that was actually

(38:20):
a pretty good call in their finaltwo minutes. That was the right call.
I thought it was the right call. Miles Turner afterwards says, hey,
I'd like to see the two minutereport because that's pretty terrible. So
the NBA comes out with this twominute report finds four other misscalls. I
think three of them were against him, like they missed him with a defensive
three second violation. Another had thismoving screen violation that they missed on him.
So he wanted the two minute reports. Two minute report decided it was

(38:43):
going to crap all over him,and then Rick Carlisle hates the way this
has been officiated for the first twogames. I'm trying to think what you
think or find out what you think, which is is this a case of
just an in consistent series being calledreferee wise for both teams, or do

(39:06):
you think the reps are in onit? Huh? Is the NBA wanting
the Knicks to go to the EasternConference Finals. I'm sure the NBA would
love for the Knicks to go tothe Eastern Conference Finals, absolutely, But
when I've been watching these two gamesand the way that they're refereed, I
think that Carlisle could have plenty ofbeef about from that game one less so

(39:29):
much less so I thought in Gametwo, and I was on the lookout
for that sort of thing. Indiana, Like you said, there was miscalls
that Indiana got away with. Indianagot put on the free throw line consistently
throughout the game. They shot seventeenfree throws New York shot twenty two.
It wasn't a large disparity. Isaw missed calls on both sides. Anybody

(39:53):
who's followed this show knows. Iam absolutely not a New York homer.
I'm not you know, I don'tknow what Rick Carlisle is seeing so much
from game two. I could understandbeing ticked off from the end of game
one, but here, you know, Indiana did a lot of other things.

(40:14):
Unfortunately, Tyres Halliburton, a coupleother guys chimed in and it was
like, yeah, you know,the calls weren't great. We're not happy
about those, but there's a lotof other things we did, such as
getting out rebounded on the offensive glassmultiple multiple times by Josh Hard and Jalen
Brunson, and just the Knicks outworking them late in the game, or
some you know, dumb shots latein the game, two things that didn't

(40:37):
fall. I don't see the refereesas having handed New York game two.
I did think that the calls couldhave gone differently in game one, and
that that being the tighter game.The four point loss might have been a
little different. But here's what Iwant to see. Typically, the home
team kind of gets the benefit ofthe doubt, historically, at least it

(41:00):
seems that way in playoff games alittle bit more than the road team.
So is Indiana going to get thatsame type of benefit of the doubt when
they go back home? And isit going to be harder for New York
to no pun intended buy calls fromthe refs? So I don't look at
this one as weirdly as I dothe non calls in the Denver series,

(41:23):
And yes, it's it's easy togo while Joel, you're a homer there
because that's their playing Minnesota. Ilook at those two major non calls in
Denver and go, what is theleague doing here? I'm the jury is
still out for me, and Iknow, like, yes, it's going
to be biased for you as aKnicks fan, and you already said,
you know, Carlos being a crybaby, but take off your Knicks fan

(41:45):
hat for a minute. And justas an NBA fan, were you seeing
things that were egregious? No?In Game two, what I was what
I was, what I was seeingwas a inconsistently called right, like it
sort of didn't feel like I don'tmean like for one side of the other.

(42:06):
I just felt right because Indiana gotthose kind of I just felt like
the fouls were just I felt likethere were too many fouls called in that
game. And I don't know ifthat's trying to make up. Carlos says
they sent twenty nine plays from gameone and forty nine plays from Game two
for the rest to be able tochoose, and the Knicks will be able
to see that because the league saysby the rules, like if you're going
to send in those planes, theother team gets to see those complaints that

(42:28):
you're gonna have too, which Ithink is very good transparency. I also
feel like I should get a downloadlink for that too, because I'd like
to see what he's calling that agreedjust for forty nine times in the game.
I don't think it's been a particularlywell officiated series. No, I
mean, I don't feel like theball, for example, the kickball is
ridiculous that they would miss that.I can't understand this. Like I'm a

(42:50):
Dallas Cowboys fan too, and Iget this all the time for the mean
Cowboys fan, not so much asthe Knicks, because the Knicks have,
like, really since everyone I knowit's been alive, haven't won anything.
So people are like the rest theNBA want the Knicks to go to the
Eastern Conference Finals. So it's likenow they want them now, Like they've

(43:10):
had at least eight or date seasonssince they've been to the NBA Finals where
you could have said they make thisthe year that they go to the NBA
Finals and win it all. Likeif the league wanted that, they could
have done that by now, Likewhy is it now against this Pacers team
that they want them to advance sobadly? Is because the NBA is afraid

(43:31):
of a potential Boston Boston Indiana series. Non the NBA, the NBA just
does not care about that, Iwould say, because if they did,
the Knicks would have a couple titlesby now. Today's NBA doesn't. Today's
NBA does not. I I willsay that back during the the David Stern

(43:52):
era in the early two thousands andthe Shaq and Kobe Lakers, it was
very very clear by the way someof those players games were officiated that something
was going on. Sacramento series,your Sacramento straight up and say, hey,
this is the team. But Ijust don't see if you if people
and people I know understand the NBAwant to quote unquote the big market teams,

(44:15):
Right, what's Dallas doing in there? Right? Like Dallas is not
a big market basketball But like,if you just put the Lakers and Celtics
in every year, if that's allyou care about, or if you care
about just the Stars, make sureLebron's in or make sure Steph Curry's in,
Right, it's okay, but youwant the league desires highly the Jalen

(44:37):
Brunson and Dante Devincenzo to be inthe in the Keustern Conference Finals. I
don't think it's that. I thinkit's just been a bad series for the
officiating. It's not it's not beengreat. Although I don't disagree with the
Miles Turner, uh the illegal screencall, the moving screen call, I
mean his feet were moving. Whatdo you want me to do? Right?
Like, just and if it's afact, and if it's an illegal

(44:59):
screen at ten minutes to go inthe game, it's an illegal screen with
under a minute to go in thegame, Like that's just the math just
works out for me like that.Now, I don't know what he's gonna
do for seventy eight for seventy eightcalls, But I'll tell you this,
the Knicks are for sure losing tonight. They're definitely losing Indiana for Game three.
There'll probably be a little bit ofblowback from that. They'll probably also

(45:22):
be you know, without Ognobi,it's kind of a big deal. Who
had a tremendous game too. Ishaving pretty good playoffs so far for the
Knicks, and so they're big underdogs, and I think they're six or seven
point underdog for a good reason.They're gonna lose tonight. And then is
how Game four goes that figure outwhere these two teams makes that because it
may be a bit of an odefor correction on calls against New York and

(45:45):
it's gonna be in Indiana. So, like I said, some of that's
gonna be understandable, you know,coming back home. But this is where
Tom Thibodeau's bad habits come home toroost just a little bit. He's written
these guys as hard as he canto get to this point. They've had
a great season. It's not Thibodeau'sfault necessarily, you know that Julius Randall's

(46:07):
shoulders is heard, and Mitchell Robinsongot a cheap shot when he was already
heard from Joel and b blah blahblah. But his bench, the half
guys, like he's playing like sixand a half nights. He was a
Josh Hart that didn't sit for liketen straight quarters. Yeah, Like he's
three straight games at forty eight minutesa game, three straight games. Yeah,

(46:30):
he's not going to go deep intothis bench. This is just I
heard someone call this, like theKnicks are kind of playing on like they're
they're they're kind of built on sandright now. Like they're a good team.
They've got a tla cour if everyone'sgoing to play around them. But
because of those injuries, as wetalked about, and because of where that
sort of in what Tom Thibodaux iskind of likes to do, and because

(46:51):
he has not used any time duringthe regular season to develop the deeper bench
to be ready for a moment likethis. And I've been saying this for
years about FIBs, But here's thething that we can and we can be
gone with, be gone with theshow, Tom Thibodeaux. This team isn't
like all your other Tom Thibodaux NewYork teams so far, like they're having

(47:12):
to come back to start all thesesecond halfs constantly in this series. And
they can afford to do that becausethey got a Jalen Brunton type. They
don't have to be on top ofyou from moment one is smother you to
death. I think they'll try todo that tonight because they're definitely very much
shorthanded. But that's just not whatthis team has been all year. This
team has been we got scorers,we can actually play at that level.

(47:37):
But if we need to sort ofhalter down on defense and hunker down a
little bit, we've got the abilityto do so and got the dogs to
do so. But we're not worriedif we get down ten to twelve points
a halftime, because they come backand they crush these third quarters for the
most part. So if I'm ifI'm Thibodeau, what I'm doing tonight because
my bench isn't ready and I butI do have one guy in the rotation

(48:00):
who played a total one minute inGame two, but he's been a TIBs
guy before. He's played the Pacersplenty of times by being in their division.
I start Alec Burks tonight instead ofOgiananobi because that allows the starting lineup
to stay basically intact, really,and then you bring in Precious to Chewa

(48:20):
and Duce McBride off the bench asyou have been doing for twenty eight twenty
minutes, respectively, and you keepit intact. So you're gonna miss Annobe.
There's no way to replicate what hedoes. But Alec Berks is a
pro. He can hit some shots, he will understand the game plan.
He's a Tibbs type of veteran,and New York just doesn't have any other
options. There is nobody else onthat bench short of spots starting Jericho Simms

(48:45):
for twelve minutes, you know,the first six minutes of each half.
But that does you no good becauseyou're playing an Indiana team that starting Sims
and Heartenstein together upfront. It doesn'tdo anything for you. So it's got
to be Alec Burks tonight. Andyou're right, it's probably not gonna be
enough. But this is an absolutemust win for Indiana in every sense of

(49:07):
the word. And it can't justbe a must win. It should be
a twenty five point win. Theygot to run the Knicks out of the
gym and strike while the iron ishot, because you don't know when Ananobe
comes back, and all of asudden, this becomes that slugfest that the
refs may or may not be involvedin too. You know, yeah,
because after a game or two,the refs are gonna forget all these phantom

(49:29):
calls that you think that they're gettinggetting wrong. So all right, that's
gonna do it for us. Nexttime we talk to you, I think
we'll have two conference finalists that we'llbe talking about here that will be on
this podcast, the sweeping Knicks andthe sweeping Minnesota Timberwolves. There in a

(49:49):
dream, mister Jinkseru, you're worriedabout Jenks, are told you the Nicks
are gonna lose, and wait onthe side I get to win, and
I bet the Nicks plus seven.It's gonna say that you ain't got money
on them? Why not? Theykeep it with it a touchdown. You're
good like you're good, and ifyou win perfect, you win and you
win. All right, Jill,that's good. Do it for us.

(50:10):
Think aboute to the good people.Goodbye good people. Find us on spreak
or Spotify. iTunes, wherever youget to your podcast for the audio only
version. If you want the video, it's on YouTube where you can like,
share, subscribe, all that goodstuff. It has been Basketball by
Association and we will do this againnext week. Thanks Barter