NBA Trade Ideas for Warriors Headache Draymond Green

Episode 161: It's finally time for the Golden State Warriors to trade Draymond Green following his most recent suspension. Arky Shea and Joel C. Cordes set the market, destinations and expectations for the Dubs' lightning rod. They also break down Giannis Antetokounmpo's 64-point eruption and debate whether the Phoenix Suns are dangerous or not now that they have Bradley Beal back.

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Welcome into Basketball by Association. Myname is basketball. That is association over
there on the side, mister joelsecordis mister association. How are you today?
Welcome to the podcast. Hey,it is good to be here.
We're going to have a foul filled, hack filled type of episode like we
always do, but this one Ithink extra So one hundred and sixty one

(00:24):
episodes into Basketball by Association in thisiteration of it, there are no players
in NBA history who have logged onehundred and sixty one NBA career playoff games
archiche. But we're gonna go deepinto the list and instead talk about fouls.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. CanI can I offer and we did
not talk about this beforehand? CanI offer a player of my own for

(00:48):
this number? Yes? Can Ioffer an a an a tribute to ABA
NBA Hall of Famer George mcas,who just passed away this morning as we're
recording seventy three years old Indiana Pacershometown guy. I think they won a

(01:10):
championship or maybe two championships. Attwo championships, yeah, they did.
One was you know, from theIndianapolis area, got to go and be
able to play for his hometown team. So I know he's number thirty,
and I know we'll probably never getto a thirty again unless we start figuring
out how to go backwards in time. But I offer, if that's okay

(01:32):
with you, that we named thisthe George McGinnis episode, I am one
hundred percent on board with that.McGinnis a six time All Star, two
time All NBA, three time AllABA, who was on the ABA All
Time Team for good reason, twotime ABA champ with the Pacers, it's
on the seventy one seventy two AllRookie team, and he was the seventy
four seventy five MVP of the ABA. So in good company, that's seventy

(01:56):
four to seventy five season average twentynine point eight points per game and fourteen
boards a game. Wow, dude, goold crush it. Yeah, you
look at a couple of those yearsfrom seventy two basically through seventy seven seventy
eight, he was he was ona roll. Man was on a roll.
I think I had read this morningthat like during that seventy five playoff
front he averaged like thirty three agame or something. Just I think he

(02:19):
averaged like nearly a triple double.I can't remember the numbers were, but
like they were, they were stillit's like thirty three and fifteen or sixteen
or seventeen or something like that.Uh, and during that that seventy five
title run, so that was prettypretty cool. So and uh, career
numbers, I mean, for hishis eight hundred and forty two career games
average twenty points, eleven boards,nearly four assists per game, spanning twelve

(02:44):
seasons. So rest and peace,George McGinnis, for sure, absolutely all
right, let's talk about this yearbasketball. I'm gonna be completely honest with
you, mister Chelsea Cordyce and everyonethat is listening. I have not seen
a ton of basketball this last week. I've seen some, but I've not
seen what I normally get a chanceto sit downe what. It's Christmas season
in my house. There's a lotof stuff happening, so I've lost a

(03:07):
few minutes on the TV here andthere. But I do know that you're
not allowed to go cold cocking peoplein the side of the face on inbounds
plays. That's still technically something I'mable to remember. The rumor has it
that that's frowned on yea, eventhough I didn't see that live, I
did see Yusuf Nurkic get depleted ontothe court by Draymond Green. Draymond Green

(03:34):
and definitely suspended. If you're afan of this podcast, and you're obviously
a fan of the NBA, andyou already know that, I think it's
time to sort of spend this forwarda little bit because now we have I
think we already had a pattern problemhere with Draymond Green and sort of his
intentions and his attitude. Even hisown coach, Steve Kerr, who was
asked after the games, I thinkthe question literally was, oh, so

(03:57):
what do you do? And SteveKerr's response was keep working at it like
you Just like you could tell he'svisibly like, I don't know, man,
I don't know what else you wantme to do? Like I how
many times I have to tell himdon't kick guys in the dingling, or
don't punch guys in the face,or don't get guys in headlocks. Like
a dude's gonna do what the dude'sgonna do. Right at this point,

(04:18):
if you're Draymond Green, So let'stalk about what this means for Draymond Green
and the Warriors going forward. DraymondGreen, we've talked about it on this
podcast, is an aging guy who'sits skill set is diminishing. He's also
on a big fat contract right now. I don't know when he comes back.

(04:42):
But do we think that there's anybodyelse they would want to even talk
to the Warriors about taking this quoteunquote consistent headache off of their team.
Yes. Probably. Let's first talkabout what's going on with Draymond and the

(05:03):
Warriors. It struck me that thesame thing that's affecting Draymond and in this
case he said it was an accident. I was trying to sell the call.
I actually apologized to use off thatthis is different than some of the
other cases where I meant to dostuff like I did not mean to do

(05:24):
it, Okay, intention or not, you still are flailing around completely out
of control. And that's not allthat different than the times that you are
purposely out of control. It's havingthe same effect. But the thing that
struck me was not Draymond Green's elbow, but it's the connection between him,

(05:46):
Kyrie Irving, James Harden, whowe've talked a ton about on this podcast,
and then dating back a few yearsago is Carmelo Anthony and I drew
the comparisons to Alan Iverson before that. The lack of self awareness is the
it's the connective tissue here, Andin Draymon's case, it's not only self

(06:09):
awareness of where you fit in theleague and how your skill set is and
how a team may build or notbuild around you as or you know,
putting your foot in your mouth,as it's been with Kyrie Harden has been,
especially like where he fits in today'sNBA all that stuff. I mean,
in Draymond Green's case, it's literalphysical self awareness of where you are

(06:29):
on the court as you swing yourarms around like a toddler and hit somebody,
like we have to teach our kidswhen they're little, self awareness and
body awareness. Like I'm sorry,Draymond, but there's been too many times
where it's been intentional to call thisone unintentional and expect that there's not going
to be massive fallout, like thisis not necessarily a raw deal for Draymond.

(06:50):
It's an unfortunate one. And Idon't know, Like I've watched the
video a whole ton of times,I don't know how you can and whip
around like that, flailing your armsand not know that the defender who was
behind you a split second ago thatyou're trying to sell the call on is
still there. He's touching them.They're like they're in contact. The excuses

(07:15):
don't make sense for him, periodperiod. Okay, and I get it
he knew that when that happened.And I think it's the third time he's
been ejected from a game this season. Is a flagrant to immediate immediately gone
obviously now the second time he's businessspending this year for on the court conduct.
So I don't know if your Draymondgrew. Let's I don't know if

(07:39):
you're the NBA, how you couldstay out of this to start off with,
you have to come in and youhave to throw the hammer. A
lot of people thought he got offlight with the previous suspension. Now I
think some people are like, he'sprotecting his teammate, trying to maybe maybe
de escalate a little bit, eventhough I would argue a rear naked choke
isn't a DS like he's trying tothere are other options, You have other

(08:05):
options on the table. Maybe he'strying to stop the initial altercation in the
in the scumble, but the historyof him cannot be ignored. It you're
a repeat offender, and even thatheadlock, then you and you should probably
probably have one more championship bring ifit wasn't for a flagrant on your part

(08:30):
to the man part of the biggestsuperstar in the league at the time,
even that headlock, Like again theself awareness part of it, if you're
trying to de escalate with Rudo,Rudy Gobert, and I'm sorry, I
mean he's a Timberwolf. I'm aWolves homer. I've come around on Rudy
Gobert this season. He's a defensiveto year candidate, whatever. But Rudy

(08:52):
Gobert is a fake tough guy.He's not a real tough guy in the
NBA. So when Rudy is pissedand he's rushing in there into the altercation
which is spilling over, is RudyGobert gonna throw actual punches to where you
need to headlocked the guy from behindin order to keep him because he has
such a reputation. No, ifanybody, if anything, it'd be Draymond

(09:13):
rushing into the scrum and somebody jumpson his back to headlock him because there's
a history there to go Draymond,don't throw that punch. Come on,
man, Like, you know what, Drake, you know what Draymond is
dra Draymond. Draymond's a tough guywho played at a tough, tough college
program in Michigan State, who foughtlike the Dickens for his talent level to

(09:37):
be this successful in the modern NBA. Now that's gone away, he's already
always sort of been that this tough, physical enforcer type guy. I think
he sees himself as like I'm theprotector of this team, of this dynasty
that we've built. I'm the onethat has to go out and I'm your
Charles Oakley, Like I'm the guythat's gonna get out there and I'm just

(09:58):
gonna muck it up for you ifyou need to be. I'm gonna talk
trash the entire game, and lotsof people do it, but like at
this point, I feel like it'salso escalated where he's just he's screaming constantly,
yet trying to be that not onlyinstigator, but that that guy that
gets under your skin to try toget it. Warriors team exactly. So

(10:20):
that's why I'm interested now because wedon't know what this spitch is gonna be.
Obviously, right, he's gonna losea couple hundred grand a game,
whatever, no big deal. Butit's twenty game Let me ask you that
should it be? Should it bemore than twenty games? Jo? Okay?
Job Mara got twenty five? Right? John Muran's about to come back.
Should should this be more than twentygames? Twenty five? Let's just

(10:43):
let let's do the twenty five.Let's should this be more than the job
Morant number? Twenty games? Butyou have the understanding with the the players
Union, because that's where this isgonna get hung up, and the understanding
with Draymond that the next one doubles, it goes from twenty to forty in

(11:03):
the next instance, And you're layingthat down for the Warriors at that case
to go, Do we really wantto miss this guy for half a season
the next time he can't control himself. They can't do an right now.
It's indefinite, but a number willbe attached to this. It's while they
while they're figuring it out. Youcan't suspend somebody indefinitely. The players Union

(11:24):
won't allow that. It's been pointedout that this is the reaction right afterwards,
like that you knew the trying toget ahead of it. Okay,
Yeah, definitely give it less byourselves to the time and some pr let's
figure out what this number is gonnabe. I I think this will be
unpopular, but in this case,I would almost I could see not doing

(11:46):
twenty games and doing less than that. Yes, I know there's a track
record, but this isn't a caseof This is different than the Gobert situation.
This is different than there was afight on the court. This is
a player who's out of control.I think it is a fifty to fifty
call whether he meant or not toget Nurkic the way that he did.

(12:09):
If you throw an intentional punch,yeah, you're looking at twenty to twenty
five games like that, especially ifyou have history, especially if it was
you know, some a defenseless player, that sort of thing. They're going
to look at all of that.But I could see this going either way.
There is a gray area about whetherit's intentional. It's stupid either way.

(12:31):
It's completely oblivious either way, whichis the problem with Draymont. It's
the obliviousness to everything that's going onand the inability to self correct, the
unwillingness to self correct, whatever itis. It's no different than you know,
some of those other guys that Imentioned who are unwilling or unable to
self correct. But this one isat a physical level. It's different than

(12:54):
the Jacase because that's guns, that'sliteral life or death. And there's a
track record there of off the courtlegal issues that have been mounting. So
yeah, I mean, but it'sgot to escalate. I do think the
Warriors have to take a long,hard look now about whether Draymond fits into
the future plans. He may thinkhe does, and that may be why

(13:15):
he's overcompensating, but they're ten andthirteen. This isn't working. There was
still time to figure this out,but not if you're missing Draymond for twenty
So two quick things. One,I think this needs to be at least
a fifteen to twenty games suspension.I think you talk about the multiple instances
Lebron, the Demonts bonus issue,obviously, Nurkic, the Rudi Gober,

(13:39):
a whole bunch of others that we'rejust forgetting about because there's so many you
know, like them all. TheNBA didn't even suspend it for punching his
own teammates, right like that,that's on his record, Like we know
that's happened video, We've seen oureyes. All that stuff does. That
stuff does happen in practice, andwhen it's not a game, the league
typically is deferred to. I'm notsaying the leagu's have stepped in. I'm

(14:00):
okay with with with what the withthe Warriors decided that they wanted to do
to handle their stuff inside. Butthis just adds to the amount of stuff
that's on the play when you're tryingto judge someone's case. If you go
into a courtroom, for example,and you see someone's been there four previous
times for similar things, well thejudge is going to say, buddy,
you're not learning your lessons. Somaybe the probation last time wasn't what you

(14:24):
should have gotten. Maybe you shoulddo a little time in the clink.
And I think at this point theNBA sees this as a big issue.
Because I'm with you. I thinkDraymond sees his his connection with this Warrior's
team as tenuous, and I thinkI see, and not even just connection
with the team, which is alsopart you know, being I guess emotionally

(14:48):
connected and being feeling like a partof the team, but also knowing that
he's not the same guy. Andthis is a team that's in a little
bit of flux, right They're tryingto figure out how to go from this
one part of the dynasty to revampenough with some more youth and some more
different bodies to reinvigorate the dynasty toa new one while still keeping you know,

(15:13):
Steph, And I mean, Idon't know where Clay's gonna be on
that list, and we could wegot time for the Warriors at some point
much later down the road to figureout what they are, and we'll talk
about them, but specifically with thisWarrior team, who's already spending way more
money than they should be, justtrying to keep a few dudes around that
are now really aging, and acouple of them can't even play nearly as
good as they used to. Idon't know. I think there's a serious

(15:37):
look into the Warriors, wanting tobe able to possibly see if there's any
wiggle room for somebody to come inand take them. I just don't know
who in the NBA in twenty twentythree twenty four NBA is gonna want to
take that contract from the Warriors forthat type of production. So there are
a handful of the offices contender wisethat with the tinderwise, I think,

(16:00):
but you know, go ahead,sorry, So one before we get to
potential trade destinations. One of theunfortunate things out of all this. And
I do agree, by the waythat fifteen games seems about right. Twenty
twenty five seems high to me forthis, but fifteen for Draymond. I
think you anounce the twenty twenty five, then you'll probably get little bit fied

(16:21):
back and you may be able toget it back that down to fifteen.
But I don't want to go fifteenand then get fought back down to seven
or something. You know, Yeah, that's that's fair. Traymond just signed
this new contract extension which means he'snot eligible to be traded until December fifteenth,
which has time at time of tapingis tomorrow. Now you're getting suspended
right before they could have moved you. But if and when he becomes available,

(16:45):
and I don't recall if he's suspended, if you can trade him.
I know that there's rules around injuredplayers being traded, but I think you
can. There are a handful ofteams where Draymond would make sense and you
could make the numbers. So let'sjust walk through some of these. There
are a couple of teams out therewho deal with veteran players and headache veteran

(17:07):
players and Draymond's contract. While alot of people are gonna go, oh,
my goodness, he's overpaid after thisyear, He's gonna have three years
left at twenty two million dollars ayear, but the thing is, like,
that's not that huge of a number. In today's NBA, you can
make that work. For example,the LA Clippers have been loading up on

(17:30):
veterans, including headache veterans like JamesHarden and like Russell Westbrook. But you
could essentially trade Norman Powell and PJ. Tucker for Draymond Green, bring Draymond
into that group of you know,superstars and former names and whatever, and
see how it goes, and youwould get another player back. Because Powell

(17:53):
and PJ. Tucker between the twoof them, is thirty nine million a
year. So Golden State would haveto throw in somebody to get rid of
Draymon, and the Clippers could usethat. If I'm the Clippers, I'm
I'm making that phone call already.Like Norman Paul is a nice bench scorer,
but you have enough offense on thatteam, and if you want to
lean into this identity, Draymon fitsthere, and it's with another veteran group.

(18:18):
It's not like he has to movesuper far. I would do that
in a heartbeat. A similar situation, an aging team that could use a
shot in the arm, that hasthe infrastructure that believes they could handle someone
like Draymond Green and that he wouldbuy into the ethos. There. You
know who I'm about to say,the Miami Heat, right, you know

(18:40):
the Miami Heat could make this happenagain. You move Kevin Love, who's
completely washed up. I'm sorry Kevin, but it's obvious like he's done.
And yet Kevin Love in a Warrior'sfront court knocking down some threes like Dario
Sarich does. You can do that, and you move Kyle Lowry, who
I know has been a good soldier, but he's on an expiring contract.
Probably get a third team involved inthat, but you could make that happen

(19:03):
today. You could make it happenwith Duncan Robinson's contract, But again,
Duncan Robinson to the Warriors would bea godsend, and I don't know why
the Heat would be willing to giveup on him, even though he's got
eighteen million a year for the nexttwo years left. So there are ways
to make that happen with those twoteams that are front runners, but I
don't think the list even ends there, Archiche. There's a couple of other
fits that I think would be greatfor Draymond, and then you can tell

(19:26):
me which ones you like out ofthis or don't. In the East,
there's another team front running that isreally going for it that they could make
this happen, and it would begreat for both teams. I think the
Philadelphia seventy six ers have found aton of wings scoring. They've got their

(19:48):
scoring with Tyre's MAXI do they reallyneed Tobias Harris's front court scoring in Philly.
He's making thirty nine million this year, but it's an expiring contract.
Could make the numbers work to moveChris Paul and Draymond to Philly for Tobias
Harris. You probably even have tosweeten the deal if you're Golden State to
do that, and it's a oneyear rental. But Chris Paul is only

(20:11):
on a two year deal and KlayThompson's contract is up at the end of
this year too, as they searchfor how they're going to resign that.
I think he's got the extension alreadyset. But I maybe forget may be
mistaken there, but does Tobias Harrisreally fit? Do they add that toughness
along with Joel Embiid when they don'tnecessarily need more scoring from Harris? I

(20:36):
would look into that and kick thetires again. That may be a three
team type of deal, but Draymondcould fit in Philly. They loved PJ.
Tucker. There a couple of otherinstances. I don't like it,
right, you don't like that one? Okay, a team on the on
the come up here that already boughtinto one kind of crazy wild card guy,

(21:00):
why not add two? You're theHouston Rockets. Yeah, you have
Jabari Smith starting in the front court. You could bring Draymond off the bench.
But realistically, you could make thishappen with Victor Oladipo and Jeff Green's
contracts. You know, Jeff Greengoes to Golden State, consummate pro.
He won a championship last year withDenver. He's not gonna make mistakes.

(21:21):
He's not going to be a headache. Houston probably has to sweeten the deal
with a younger player or a pickin that. But why not why not
add Draymond and Dylan Brooks on thesame team and lean into this tough guy
role for some of your young guyslike Jalen Green, like Jabari Smith,
Alprin Shengon. You got Fred vanVliet there already that they've started out nicely

(21:44):
this year that they would do then, like if they if they were you
know, eight and thirteen or somethingat that point, are we still Are
we still thinking that this is somethingthey'd consider, because I don't think so.
If it's a young team with noveteran leadership in their rudderless, then
no, you're not going to bringDraymond into that situation. But where you
have now this mix of young guysand veterans, the very thing that the

(22:04):
Warriors are trying to search for tobring in a guy with championship experience who's
going to give you toughness, who'sgoing to again double down on what Dylan
Brooks is trying to do there.It's trading your headache to a different location.
But sometimes it's okay to do that, and Draymond could be a valuable

(22:25):
member of that team, provided,of course, that he can stay on
the court the same thing. Ilook at this one's gonna be tough.
There's gonna be a lot of peoplewho would not like this. I don't
think it would happen in a millionyears, but you can make it happen.
The Indiana Pacers can't defend a parkingcone, right, but they can
get out and run and they canscore points. You don't need Buddy Heal's

(22:45):
nineteen million dollar expiring contract in Indianawhen you've got plenty of other wings who
are knocking down shots. Does Draymondstart instead of Obi Toppin? Maybe?
Maybe not. Does Obi Toppin getan include in this deal to Golden State?
Golden State would love for that tohappen. Love, love, love,
because then you've got a rim finisher, you know, above the rim

(23:07):
finisher. But Indiana adds in anotherdefender and a glue guy with Bruce Brown.
I don't know that a level headedsituation like the Pacers and Rick Carlisle
are going to want to bring thaton. But you think about it,
you see what the price is.And then the last team on this list,
because they're always kicking the tires onveterans. Would you bring him into

(23:30):
Dallas? Would you bring him toLuca And I know Grant Williams is starting
there already, but you've got twelvemillion dollars a year in Rashaun Holmes,
eleven million in Maxi Kliba, fourmillion in Dwight Powell. You don't need
all of those front court guys,especially when Derek Lively's kind of locking down
the center spot. But you bringDraymond into that mix, and it's again,

(23:52):
it's another veteran, it's another knowhow type of guy. I could
talk myself into most of those situations. Despite everything I've said about Draymond Green,
and I am saying it's time forthe Warriors to move on. It
is time to break this up,get a different headache, a different problem
to look at instead of the sameold one. But a change of venue

(24:14):
for Draymond Green, it could bea very positive thing for him to I
went to go start looking while you'retalking at some of what specifically what Draymond's
doing that he's some of his numbersright, and some numbers don't always tell
they'll tell the complete story. Buthis box numbers are not great. He's

(24:37):
got there's some decent defensive efficiency numbersthere for him, but I mean player
efficiency rating overall is still at arespectable level. Yeah, we're talking twenty
five million a year for respectable Andif you're Houston, are you are you
bringing that kind of a potential headache? Here's the thing, like I think,

(25:00):
if you ask me, I don'tknow. Maybe if it changes scenery
helps him, so to speak,But I would consistently be worried that this
dude's now getting to his point inhis career where I can't count on him
just being available, you know,being being consistently on the team to even
help my young guys. You know, I don't know, man, I

(25:23):
think Draymond hold Stram. I justhad that up. Draymond is he's fudge.
He's thirty three, right, Sohe's thirty three, but he's a
hard thirty three, right, That'strue. Like it's a hard thirty three
for a guy who didn't have alot other than grinding that sort of basically

(25:45):
what would work out for him.But I think that question though Archie doesn't
keep teams from looking in or evenbringing him on board. What it does
is it changes the price, Itchanges the off. You're not talking about
straight up stars swaps. You're talkingabout role players who also have contracts.

(26:07):
You know. I respect that,but I just mean, like, if
you are one of those who's lookingto possibly swap the contracts right, thinking
you might get some type of upgradefor you know, you're not talking about
you know, like you said,you're not talking about just it's it's a
price adjustment, right, You're justsort of seeing, you know, can
you get like the great value priceof for for Draymond Green, for a

(26:30):
guy that you were hardly using anyway, or who wasn't necessarily moving the needle
in a huge way. That's whereI can understand not loving the Philly deal
because Tobias Harris still is a needlemover for Philly. I get that.
Yeah, I don't know if youif you're asking me if and if I
was running a team like let's saythe Knicks or just any other team,

(26:52):
I feel like DRAYMNT is just completelya no go for me at this point.
Even if you're somebody like the Clippers, or you're somebody you know,
maybe like Dallas. If I'm GoldenState, I'm out of them, you
know, Like I'll listen to peopleto just sort of try to come get
him, but I don't want them, And I mean, I'll keep him
on the roster and keep playing him. Obviously, I won't tell Steve Carer

(27:15):
what to do, but I feellike if somebody wants to come get him,
sure, I'm out of love withDraymond, and I think there are
there are places that would franchises thatwould love him, right I'm sure the
Golden State fan base, I knowthey they love him. Places Philly probably
the fan base would embrace him.I would embrace the kind of physicality.
Is Boston a franchise like that,the fan base would would would Miami to

(27:41):
Miami to Miami. They that Idon't know about the fan base as much
as the culture. I sort ofturned the fan base into sort of liking
that, mm hmm. But Idon't know. I feel like I think
it's fair to say though I thinkthe markets still the market would be thin
on him, but probably not zero. It's just it had to be the
right spot, right And and thisis a guy like James Harden, you

(28:04):
know, and you kind of hesitatedand you're like, well, what would
contenders want to do with him?I think it's only contenders or quasi contenders
who kick the tires because you don'twant him near your young players, your
development. Getting that off track,that's well. I thought when you said
Houston, that was kind of interestingthat then, because like that is such
a young team and they started outnicely that I could see. That's based

(28:26):
on one getting an earworm saying maybewe want to sort of try bringing some
of his veteran leadership, see ifwe can solidify ourselves into a first playoff
running a little while well, andI think based on the tea leaves of
what else they did by bringing inDylan Brooks, Fred Van Vliet, Aaron
Holliday, who at this point isa veteran, you know, Jeff Green
especially Reggie Bullock is there and he'sbeen around the league for ages at this

(28:51):
point, Like they brought in thoseveterans all this year for a reason.
It's because they wanted to be ableto take that next step they needed to
insulate the younger guys who were therenot only on the court, but also
to show them the ropes. Again, do you really want Draymond showing all
the ropes? No? But couldDraymond be helpful in pushing a guy like

(29:11):
Jabari Smith, Tari East and JayShawn Tait those guys in practice, you
know, and on the court andtaking over again that enforce a role along
with Dylan Brooks. If you're theHouston Rockets, why not lean into being
a heel team? You know?Why not lean into that and get those
young guys that edge and go thatroute you Otherwise, prior to this point,

(29:32):
you had no identity other than anextremely exciting athletic team that could not
win games for the life of them. That's been the Houston Rockets over the
last couple of years. I cansee that argument being made. I still
personally wouldn't pull that trigger, butI can see how that could sort of
pull somebody over the age and say, you know what, let's make this

(29:53):
happen, especially because it's not goingto be a long term contract. If
we keep it, it's not superexpensive. When it comes to guys who've
been in the league as long ashe's been in the league. I mean,
I say it is in the league. Yeah, it is long term
when you're staring down three more yearsof this, but it's twenty two million.

(30:14):
It's the it's the number of years, which is just three. But
it's also the price. It's nottwenty it's not three years at thirty nine
million, right, three years attwenty two And it's someone that you don't
have to play thirty two minutes agame. And it's someone that could you
could say, the leadership, theshowing the top ropes of the WWE two

(30:37):
the roster could be that valuable tothem to start, you know, continuing
to their upward momentum, towards theplayoffs, hopefully this year, and maybe
becoming a serious continder depending on acouple moves over the next couple of years.
Jeff Green's playing twenty two minutes orno, it was playing fifteen minutes
a game. He's not playing forHouston, you know, and you soak

(31:00):
up a few minutes from elsewhere.But I don't even know if Houston's the
front runner. I do think somewherelike Dallas would definitely make the call.
Miami will make the call just tosee and the Clippers really should be making
this type of call, Like again, if you have an identity, why
not double down on it, whynot let's go for it. I think
the the the and then we canmove on after this. I think the

(31:26):
the depressing part is that the Clippersare the number one contender, like they
they are that desperate team that hasbeen dying to make this run eventually,
has been dying on the vine withinjuries over the last few seasons, and
now they make a couple of bigmoves that they're ready for something to finally
all click together so badly that theywould want that they'd be interested in making

(31:51):
this move, and who knows,it may not be a terrible move for
them, Like it may be amove that actually fought them into like the
West Semis or something. I don'tknow if it if it fled out.
You already had like six other thingsthat could flame out about this team,
whether it's Kawhi's health, Paul George'shealth, Russell Westbrook's headspace, James Harden's
you know, ability to be thesystem or play within a system, like

(32:14):
you have all of these different variables. So at this point like, it's
not it's not taking a team likeHouston or Indiana and messing with a good
thing. You're just leaning into whatyou've already leaned so far into that,
as you said, like bringing Draymondoff the bench or which is probably what
would happen with this group, buthim and Russ as the lead subs.

(32:36):
Yeah, you're gonna lose some ofNorman Pole's scoring, but maybe you play
Bones Highland more. You will beable to find some other veterans to score.
But you have enough of that already, Like James Harden's not gonna turn
down more shots. Paul George probablywould love to take a couple less,
but you've got Kawhi Leonard. He'sstayed healthy so far. Knock on wood,
this could be done. Spacing inthe second unit would be a little

(32:58):
bit iffy. Norman Poule's a fineplayer, but I mean Powell would be
very, very helpful for these Warriorsfor example, Like if I'm Golden State,
I would pull that deal in aheartbeat too. If the Clippers do
this, it's a one chance itdoes not work out, But you know
what that the good point is,like you brought up when you do the
autopsy in the season. You'll neverknow the cause of death. You'll never

(33:21):
be able to figure it out,like it will be one of six or
seven things. They were like,all right, this just didn't work.
We'll try next year, all right, So we got a few minutes left
here. I wanted to because Ididn't get a chance to watch a ton
of basketball. Is there's something thatyou wanted to mention it first that I
may have seen and we can wecan talk about, so I don't want
to miss out on what you definitelywanted to get to because I think the

(33:45):
gist of this was Draymond Green beingjust a a you know, a poopy
face as he has wont to do, you know. Probably the only other
big thing to really call out thisweek Bradley Beal making his debut with the
Phoenix Suns, including in the Draymonduse of Nurkic game, but which the

(34:06):
Sons won, and know that shouldhave been the headline really from the game,
like that they that should have beenWe'll never get to talk about it
that long term because well Bill then, you know, playing last night,
second game of a back to back, that's a great sign that right away
he's playing on a back to back. I was surprised to see that.
So the NBA gives that like it'sin its communications that get like it's injured

(34:30):
report. They updated like every hour, that kind of thing, like what
the lights is gonna be right,so you can sort of monitor it basically
for gambling. Uh. And thefact that Bradley bial played in that game
for the second back to back Iwas I was like, wow, Okay,
that's nice. I wasn't. Iwas not expecting that. I expected
one game back. That's slowly transitionhim. But he maybe he's just ready
to do something, you know.And you know, the Sons absolutely need

(34:52):
that. They had josh Akogi startingwith Beal and Booker in that first game
against the Warriors, Durant didn't play. Durant comes back in a Kogi set
against the Nets and the loss,Chametzi met Too suddenly is in the starting
lineup. I kind of like thatidea of having a grinder, having a
guy who can play above the rima little bit. You don't necessarily need
another shooter. And Josha Coogy's moreof a defender at this point, but

(35:15):
he's a wing. I'm not.I just I don't know what to make
out of this Phoenix Suns team.And I know you picked them to win
the championship. On paper, there'sso much championship not the NBA right,
No, you did. You chosethe Suns to win the title, not
the NBA Cup. Gonna have todelete dat games? Yeah, I just

(35:36):
as I watch them play. It'sa continuity thing, and some of that
should improve over time. There's noquestioning the ability of Devin Booker or the
fact that Durant's got all sorts ofstuff left in the tank. I don't
know what Beale has left in thetank because he can't stay healthy. And
I'm just concerned that there's a differencebetween complimentary skill sets and overlapping skill sets.

(36:00):
Laarrange here did this was the wordlast year that that you know,
I didn't think it was just thatthey didn't have enough time together. And
you obviously Brada build a whole newthing with this, but I didn't.
I did not. I'm with you. I it whatever it's not clicked yet
right clearly is click. But youknow, Bradley Bill is just back.
But I don't know, I don'tknow what's I don't know if this team's
going to be as good as IOpEd to be. All of their best

(36:23):
players are shooters and scorers, likeyou throw Eric Gordon into that mix,
and yeah, there's some other goodrole players there. I am a big
Josha Kobe Kogi fan, and youknow, Devin you Banks or Drew Ewbanks,
I should say, has been effectiveas Nurkic's backup. But outside of
Nurkic, who has been on aroll with Bill back and maybe something gets

(36:45):
unlocked there where they've got some goodchemistry, or the fact that Booker has
been back a little bit. Nurkicreally was off to a rough start to
this season when it was just himand Durant. There may be different layers
here that open up. And DevinBooker has played point guard before, Beal's
done a little bit of that.So this is such a work in progress
team. I just I look atPhoenix and I see so much overlap between

(37:06):
their top guys, and I don'tnecessarily see that when I look at the
Lakers, who I you know,chose to win to win the championship,
but grudgingly or even Denver. Denverhas a very delineated, you know,
group of skill sets in that startinglineup, but they're allowed to plays as
long as allowed to play right.By the way, do you know,

(37:29):
did you see when he got ejectedin Chicago? Like did you hear?
Like the fans were booming because they'relike, dude, how often do you
think we get this guy here?How often is the best player in the
league here? And you got justgetting him out of here? Like immediately?
Come on, every other team thatyou look at, who's a true
contender? And I shouldn't say everyother because I'm sure there's an exception here
there, but you know, Sacramento, the Lakers, Denver, Philly,

(37:52):
Boston, Milwaukee, what have you. There's there's different skill sets that compliment
one another. And Phoenix seems tobe doubling down so much on the scoring
and shooting side that yeah, itis today's modern NBA. Yeah, these
are multifaceted stars. I'm just alittle bit concerned about how that shakes out

(38:15):
when you don't have time to getinto chemistry because and again, we got
three quarters of the season left togo. But the Suns, to me,
are the type of team that willonly win if they have crazy chemistry
going on to the point that youcannot guard all of these shooters. They're
draining it from everywhere. You thinkabout the Dallas Mavericks the year that they

(38:37):
won the championship with Dirk and likeall of their shooters were on all the
time in that run. It's gonnatake something like that. You won't be
able to get to that if guysdon't stay healthy. So they're a big
work in progress. I guess theother thing this is low hanging fruit,
but I just want to funnel upon that. That's an interesting point because

(38:57):
I was looking, as you weresaying, looking at the teams that they
might have to go through Phoenix tobe able to get to that. It's
this kind of style where it's justscoring, scoring. Scoring is gonna have
to be able to push them.And that's not gonna win the West this
year unless they are white hot,like unless they are like dematic team's a
good example, like unless they arejust lightning. I don't think that's gonna

(39:22):
win the West this year. Andyou're right, there's a long time to
go. But you know, thatis something that we don't have to freak
out over yet, but it isworth noting. That's a good point.
The Suns are twelfth in scoring sofar this season, and again that's justin
straight points per game. I knowthere's all sorts of different metrics you can
use, but they're also fourteenth defensively, so middle of the pack. There's

(39:46):
room to improve on either end.How much are they actually going to improve
putting Bradley Beal in the starting lineupand getting more minutes out of Devin Booker,
how much do they improve on thedefensive end? The answer is probably
not much. Right. Their guysare their guys, and you might even
be playing some of your better defendersless fewer minutes now because Beale is soaking

(40:07):
up so much of that in thestarting lineup. So I don't know.
I'm just I'm not I'm not againstthis Sun's team, but I'm not bullish,
especially when, as you said,the West has got its fair share
of good teams, like it doesevery year. Some of them are very
defensive oriented, like Minnesota. Somebodylike Oklahoma City is so loaded with young

(40:28):
wings that they can defend that sortof thing. And then the Lakers,
I think, also are equipped todefend a team, and the Clippers,
if healthy, are equipped to defenda wing heavy scoring team like the Phoenix
Suns. Yeah, I was gonnabring up Minnesota. Okay, see the
was the team I Tod was gonnamention because they are they could provide a

(40:49):
nightmare scenario for Phoenix Innate series.Uh, Denver La Los Angeles could be
really, really difficult for them.So unless they sort of figure some of
this out over the next few months, it's worth It's worth watching thing it
did you to. I was justlet's give kudos here to to Yanna's sixty
four points seventeen. Talk about Gibson'sreturn. We're really gonna talk about ya

(41:15):
doing that career high real quick.Here's the headline with Taj Gibson. Old
man wants to go on a walk, can't find his new hat, picks
his old standby hat instead, goesfor a walk. That is the headline
in New York. Listen, ToddGibson is the hat that is at the
bottom of the closet, and yougo, oh yeah, yeah, that

(41:37):
one works. I guess I'll goMitchell Robinson's heart. So you bring in
the comfiest coat and hat you got, You bring you what you really really
feel good about ToJ is a proand Taj belongs on a lot of rosters
as your fifteenth man to help theyoungsters in practice, to essentially be a

(41:58):
player coach. I'm about that allday. Todge Gibson, consummate pro.
Todge Gibson does not belong getting minutesin today's NBA anymore. I'm sorry,
sorry, I'm sorry, Knicks fans, Bulls fans, Wizards fans, whoever.
He just Timberwolves fans like he's beenaround the block too many times.
The hats got holes in it,Like yeah, but here's the thing with

(42:22):
the quote unquote holes. They're oldholes too. That's a good thing.
I don't know. It's a life. It fills a roster, spy.
He'll take up a few minutes.It's not gonna be the worst thing in
the world. Mitchell guns back up. But you know, maybe Todge Gibson's
the best guy that you could getoff the waiver wire to soak up a

(42:44):
few minutes. That's just what Idon't understand for Tims. Yes, because
Tim's goes. This is where it'slike, it's almost lazinessis goes. I
won't have to tell this guy howwe do things or train him up.
Essentially, I won't have to coachthis guy, therefore I should bring him
in. It's just it's lazy.He knows the guy that that that's the

(43:07):
thing, like he there's a itis literally like the hat thing. He's
just the most comfortable guy. Youcould get him up to speak quickly.
He doesn't have to take you know, like he's not taking a bunch of
Julius Randall minutes right Like he's justgonna be a big that could play a
little bit some to help sort ofbalance out the roster. It's not a
great pickup. I don't love it, but you know, like we just

(43:30):
went with this through with with DerekRose right like like he Derek Rose is
his kind of guy, despite thefact he ain't got no legs, Like
he just was like, you're mypoint guard. I'm not giving it anybody
else. Ever. I know youcan't shoot anymore. I know you can't
use your legs anymore. I knowthe knees are gone. It's carlage on
it's bone on bone, essentially,carlage all gone. But you know what

(43:52):
I want to do, and youcan grind like that. That's my thing.
I was. I'm a little disappointedthe Knicks so far this year,
so a little disappoin again, toofar to go, but whatever, but
let's go back to you career highsixty four. Tyreus Halliburton does a sweet
little dunk on him. Gionas waslike, it's the middle of December.
I'm not gonna let Halliburton do alittle gesticulate here, nice little shoulder bump,

(44:15):
and bam, we're off to theraces for sixty four points. You
know, I guess the extra halfa million dollars wasn't enough incentive for him
to be able to put up sixtyfour. But a little bit of flexing
from Tyre's Halliburton, that'll do itfor you. Well, and and the
Pacers now have caught everyone's attention.The sneaking up portion of the season is

(44:37):
over with the Pacers. The Lakerssaw that, you know, in the
NBA Cup Championship game. Congratulations onthe Pacers forgetting that far. It's a
measuring stick. We talked about thatlast week, where it's a good thing
to have that type of measuring stickthis early in the season. But I
think the backside is like the elementof surprise is gone. And Milwaukee absolutely

(45:00):
took Indiana. Seriously in this regularseason game. There's a little bit of
revenge factor there. Milwaukee does notwant Indiana hanging around second place in the
division trying to push them for first. What have you. And if there
was a team this year that Giannisis going to get sixty four on,
it might be these Pacers, whoare you know, probably not even counting

(45:22):
how many points he has because they'regoing down to shoot on the other end
already, like there's no adjustment beingmade. It's just let Giannis get his
and they lost. But there area few teams one hundred and forty to
one to twenty six and sixty fourpoints for the opposing player. You almost
hear that this year and you go, that had to have been a Pacers

(45:43):
game. That had to have beena Pacers Like, oh okay, that's
Pacers. The Pacers play so secondworst in points put laud per game,
behind the Washington Wizards, but alsothey're like five points clear of the highest
scoring team that they are are thePacers? Fun stuff for them? But
yeah, Yani's also you seem sprintingafter the ball afterwards, when like the

(46:05):
Patrins are like no, no,no, we're giving this bald Oscar Swewey
who just scored a point for thefirst time. This is a big Kentucky
dude who could get drafted, Likethis is what we're doing well. And
then what I get a kick outof is Yannis this entire time has maintained
he wanted the game ball to giveto Damian Lillard because Lillard hit twelve hundred

(46:27):
and forty five threes or whatever thenumber is to pass Kyle Korver for seventh
on the all time NBA list,like okay Oka, there's no way that's
the real story, Like it can'tbe. But either way, like,
yeah, if you're the Pacers,give it to Yannis. And supposedly there's

(46:50):
two different game balls that are usedin Yanis Now I was like, I
know, I got the backup one. They didn't give me the real one.
We played it the real one.I had that for thirty four minutes
or whatever, like that isn't theone. This is the most bizarre like
battle like and it's a really quickblip on the screen for the NBA season.
But if you think about some ofthe small headlines that were just dumb
dumbs and in that season, theselittle, tiny lollipops. You're like,

(47:14):
huh y yo, game ball overwith a bad print in the hallway.
Andy points before just tell us that'sokay. Rick Carlile was like, this
is the third time we've seen themin four weeks. We're just getting sick
of each other. This is dumb. Like even Rick Carler was like,

(47:35):
we should have just given him theball, like whatever, but I want
him to have the ball to eachother. I do like a couple of
Division teams in the Central being goodenough to go back and forth at each
other and being chippy to where lateDecember game means something. And I like
Tyre's Halliburton, who kind of cameinto the league with a nice sky rep.
He was a talented player. Youweren't sure how he's gonna fit,

(47:59):
but kind of overall nice, youknow, Iowa State kid, whatever.
But that it's been growing now thisyear where there's some aggressiveness like yeah,
he's he's barking a little bit.I don't know that it's cockiness, but
it is a confidence in what hehe's the table. Yeah, yeah,
like he knows, he knows I'mat this level now with these other guys,

(48:22):
and my team needs me to ascendto this level. So I got
to act the part too, andhe's backing it up with his play on
the court. So you're right,I like this rivalry. This is fun.
These two teams should be going ateach other all year. In the
end, you get that game ball. I understand it's important, but look
into the future, and how manyof these guys get to a point where

(48:45):
they just begin auctioning all this stuffoff right for charity? More power to
him. Kareem is a great example. They start auctioning off because how how
many times can I look at thatthing which is in a closet somewhere,
or maybe I've got my trophy room. But it's all these things, and
you get to a certain point laterin life where those trophies they don't mean

(49:05):
so much. The memory means morethan the trophy itself. So yeah,
it's like you said, it's ablip type of headline. It's silly,
there's gonna be a whole bunch ofdebate about it. But then in the
end, it's just like it's ameaningless thing. It's a commemorative thing.
And what happens to the ball thathe just now surpassed his previous have before,
Like, does that now just goin the trash? Do you immediate

(49:25):
auction off? It's the second highestgime game I've ever had. And if
I'm if, I'm Yannis and Iwant to be a class act. And
most of the time Yannis is Iget that game ball, I keep it
for myself. I buy a reallyspecial one for Oscar Schwaeba. I sign
it congratulations on your first point.And here's something that's even nicer than the

(49:47):
game ball that that guy probably willbecause I mean, again, no disrespect
to Oscar. It's gonna be along shot for him to have a ten
year NBA career, and I havea whole bunch of accolades, but he's
got this special commemorative thing of aguy who is being a class act to
go, hey man, I'm sorry, I took your game ball. I
did score sixty four points, buthere you go, you know, like

(50:09):
I think that's that's the way tohandle this. And you know everybody comes
out ahead that way or here's anotherway, okay, and we will never
have to technically know it. Ifyou're you honest, you go get the
ball and then when people are askingyou about it you say, Hey,
listen, we do all this kindof stuff for charity all the time.
I'd love to auction this off atsome point for a charity to raise some

(50:31):
money from the Boys and Girls Clubor whoever. Listen. It may take
months. I guess he's probably gonnascore sixty five this year, but he
may I don't know. But ifhe doesn't, then he's got how many
times do they play the Pacers?Again? The only question here that's when,
like, if you've won that auction, you're like, oh my god,
the Pacers game is Thursday. Ohmy god, he's gonna he can

(50:52):
go for seventy. He's gonna gofor seventy, and ball's gonna be worthless.
But like it's just a fun thingwhere you could tell like a lot
of these players claim that they don'tcare about anything, but like as soon
as like that's my ball, that'smy ball, that's my ball, he's
like, Okay, my bad,I get, I do get. It's

(51:12):
sixty four points and it's your career. However, I fully am with that.
Yeah, but again, there's alwaysa compromise to something that people are
do you know what the previous highestscoring game for him was wasn't it fifty
four or fifty five? Because Iknow fifty about fifty seven was the Bucks
all time high that he went past, and he was just below it previous

(51:37):
to this. Yeah, I'm tryingto find because fifty five. Yeah,
so fifty five last this last Tenuary, so almost a year ago, he
scored fifty five, So sixty four, it's a bunch. The fifty five
was against Hey, another terrible defensiveteam, Washington. He actually scored fifty

(51:59):
four also last November against Indiana.Indiana. It's like there's a theme here
or something. Previous record holder wasfifty seven points by Michael Redd, which
is an interesting name. Yes,considering the fact that Milwaukee has had some
big time scorers in their their lineage, including Ray Allen and Glenn Robinson,

(52:19):
guys like that, and you know, dating back to the eighties, had
a whole bunch of different big timescores. But yeah, Michael Red,
who kind of had that brief periodin the mid ods where all of a
sudden he was scoring twenty five pluspoints per game for a couple of seasons.
So Yannest and then we can takeit by Yannis has scored fifty plus
against the Pacers three times. Hehas scored fifty plus just eight total times

(52:43):
and three is making against the Pacers. So all right, fair enough.
Not a great defensive team, butit's okay. They're fun to watch,
and there'll be a better defensive teamwhen they trade for Draymond, you know,
in order to use Draymond to beable to try to slow Jannis,
maybe by elbowing them in the face. Who knows who's to say, Hey,
look, you and I talked aboutit, and you were right on

(53:05):
it when we talked about that Halliburtontrey with Sacramento a couple of years.
That was a good That was apretty good deal for both teams, and
not a lot of people were sayingthat at the time. Maybe Drayma comes
in, it's a great thing forboth teams, and then Tyres Haliburton starts
averaging like seven a game, youknow, because it just turns into the
old like nineteen ninety four Knicks heat. No. No one wants that,

(53:28):
No one the Pacers needs to getincrementally better defensively, but there should be
no one in the NBA who wantsthem to change the way that they're playing
right now. They have been theleague's most fun team, the funnest,
the funnerst team. And if you'rea team that it's not one of the
premiers, right, or you're notreally really super good and any and it's

(53:51):
good they're not super great at thispoint, be entertaining. That's how you
get eyeballs. Like, if you'reone of those franchises said, you know
that they're struggling to get a ifyou could do it this way and have
a couple of premier players on yourteam, really watchable guys that you can
talk about all the time. PutHaliburton on that list. Baby. All
right, Well that's gonna do itfor us here on this podcast. Mister

(54:14):
Joel c Correz, thank you forbeing a part. Uh. I think
we'll talk about basketball at some point. I don't know, maybe never.
I guess we'll try again. We'llplaying the Lakers won the championship. What's
going on? We'll try again nextweek. Who's who's to say? But
yeah, George McGinnis, rest inpeace, big fellow, And it was
fun. One hundred and sixty oneepisodes in the books. Here we go,

(54:37):
Here we Go,