The Milwaukee Bucks are Making a Huge Mistake

Episode 163: Arky Shea and Joel C. Cordes are not happy with the Milwaukee Bucks after firing Adrian Griffin, but they're furious for replacing him with Doc Rivers. They also break down the beauty of the Indiana Pacers' trade for Pascal Siakam, how Terry Rozier to the Miami Heat is a no-brainer, LeBron James' 20th All-Star selection, and why Joel Embiid's 70 points is more than just "the W" that Karl Anthony Towns couldn't get with his 62.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome into Basketball by Association. Myname is ARKI, that is Joel.
C court is Joel. Hello.February is almost here, which means I
can almost smell the All Star Game, and I can almost smell it in
disgusting Indianapolis. Yes, Indianapolis isunderrated. There's actually it is a midtown.

(00:23):
It is not a bad Midwestern townas far as Midwestern towns go.
Indianapolis and Milwaukee, I will givethem their props are both really fun cities.
I like the Midwest coast. Ilike Milwaukee a lot, Indianapolis so
much, not too much, sothat's fair. Thank you, Thank you
Joel for allowing me that a littlebit of lee way and that grace here

(00:44):
on this Sorry Indy, I tried, I tried, but I will say
this, the Pacer Stadium is oneof my favorites in the NBA. It's
the worst. Actually, I thinkyou'll get out of here, get out.
It is a classy, classy building. Now some of this is still
I'm still but her about regim Miller. That's fine. Okay, wait,
it's not Market Square Arena or whateverit used to be called. That's not
even that building anymore. No,but he's still associated with that franchise and

(01:07):
everything they touch his garbage. That'sall I'm telling you. That's all I'm
telling They're not Brooklyn Nets bad,like just terrible. Right, But and
I do hate the Celtics a lotmore. I was gonna say, you
have to hate them in the Sixersand probably the Heat more than you do
the Pacers. I do hate themyet, but but based on one guy,
literally just one guy, and reallyparticularly one performance, right, I'm

(01:32):
gonna hold some grudges, you know, that's only what. Let's just I'm
gonna tell you this. I getover stuff really easily. Unless you're hurting.
I can tell. I can reallytell. Unless you're hurting my teams.
I don't hold grudges. And ifyou hurt my teams, yeah,
I hold grudges. So Reggie youcan go to at double hockey Sticks.

(01:53):
That's right. Is this a regimentof episode? It better be. Yeah,
I'm I'm kind of I'm giving upnaming episodes after players. It's getting
hard to find new guys, sowe can we can name these randomly over
whoever we want, Like I,let's name this one the doc Rivers episode,
as in why is doc Rivers?Getting another job. Why is it

(02:15):
with this team? You don't youguys know the news already for listening to
this podcast, Doc rivers the brandnew head coach of a good team that
was playing pretty darn good basketball.But you know that's not enough for everybody.
A team that we don't want tosee suck. We don't want to
see the Milwaukee Bucks suck. Wedon't want that. I don't want a

(02:38):
first round word an agreement like hewas a Knicks fan, he as a
Timberwolves fan. Yeah, I likea Game seven. I love the city,
I love the franchise. I lovethat Gianni's embraced it so much.
There the fact that he re signedand made a big big deal about sort
of being that team that franchises.Guy, I'm a big, big proponent

(03:00):
of that. We like Dame Lollard. We'd love we'd love for Dame to
get a ring at some point.You know, I liked I liked Dame.
I don't love me. He's fine, you know, you know,
maybe it shouldn't be a starter.You know, maybe Jaylor Runson should be
a starter anyway. Uh but listen, why, Doc River, what happened?
I don't like what they did AdrianGriffin, who I don't know,

(03:22):
just one thirty out of forty threegames feels like a good start, right,
And I don't like what they didbring in Doc Rivers. What Doc
Rivers makes you know? You knowhow Like in the NFL especially, they
used to sort of give the NFLa lot of crap. Not so much
now, but they used to,like ten years ago, especially before that,

(03:45):
they would just constantly recycle the samenames over and over and it just
didn't matter, Like how bad youdrugs, you get another fourth, fifth
shot. At this Doc Rivers isturning into that man. Like Doc River
has won enough games in the regularseason a bunch of times to get to
the playoffs. He'll be a Hallof Famer. He will be right to

(04:06):
a Hall of Famer because of theregular season record in the one ring and
if you wanted to let's say,you know, Charlotte, right like if
you wanted the Hornets wanted to takea shot on him and he would go
there. Yeah, get him tothe next level. He's the guy who
can get you into playoff contention,to that next level, but not the
next next level. Yeah, thisis the team that literally won the NBA

(04:29):
championship. This is a team thatliterally fired Mike Budenholzer because he was incapable
of making in game adjustments in lategame situations in must win games, so
they fired him and hired Adrian Griffin, and now they basically got Mike Budenholzer

(04:50):
two point zero or the rich man'sversion of Budenholzer, however you feel about
him, whatever. Doc Rivers isthe same coach with the same problem.
He does not make in game adjustments, he loses close games. The record
is damning. It's like thirty threelosses in clinching type of games and game

(05:12):
seven losses is an insane number atthis point. And it's all happened recently,
like this is a trend, notoh, he's got this in his
in his past and it's all better, but you know he's been hit or
missed since then. It's one ofthose statistics that you don't want to hang
your hat on. No, pleasehang all of your hats on these recent

(05:32):
statistics, because it has been thisway now for a decade. Joe Duc
Rivers has a record in the playoffsof sixteen and thirty three when his team
has three wins in the series alreadyyes, Joe, can I ask you
this? I want to. Andby the way, his players don't typically

(05:57):
like him all that n okay,okay, that has been that has been
a recurring theme since the Celtics days, where those guys did buy in,
did like him, But since thosedays, in his other stops, players
have been really iffy on Doc rivers. You don't hear him getting credit.
They don't really throw him under thebus all that much. But you don't

(06:18):
hear guys being like, oh,yeah, I love Doc. Doc is
the man. I'll go to warwith him any day. You don't hear
that, Yeah, okay. Wedon't have to spend a ton of time
in this because so the I thinkthe Bucks are still gonna be good.
They're not gonna collapse, They're gonnabe fine. But it's not They're not
worried about the regular season. They'renot worried about the first round of the

(06:39):
playoffs. It's the Semis and beyondthat they're trying to get to again.
And it's just a bizarre choice.It's about this Milwaukee team. It's play
it's paying now three coaches they're paying. That's what bad college football programs do
with ay three or four. They'repaying three coaches right now, they're peying

(07:04):
booholzered. They are paying Adrian Griffinfor half a season of work and beyond,
and now they're starting to have abrand new contract with Doc Rivers and
go ahead. Sorry. It wouldbe one thing if we're forty six games
into the season and you're sitting twentyone and twenty five, if you're the
Chicago Bulls and you're sitting in ninthplace, and you go, this is

(07:26):
not what we signed up for.Especially if you were Milwaukee and you're hovering
like even just a couple of gamesover five hundred. If Milwaukee was let's
say twenty four and twenty one,that's Miami heat territory in seventh place.
You could look at Adrian Griffin andgo, dude, is in way over
his head. We made a mistake. We shouldn't have done this this.
You know, we brought in DameLillard. This is not what we signed
up for. I get that.Players. It sounds like we're having concerns

(07:47):
about the game plans repeatedly, andit sounded like Adrian Griffin had a lot
to learn. Maybe the learning curvewas a little bit higher as a head
coach than what was anticipated. Dudewas in Toronto with Nick Nurse. He's
been on a lot of good coachingstaffs, he's been an assistant. So
if it wasn't what you wanted,I get that, and I get maybe
the learning curve was there. Andif the players are having concerns, fine,

(08:13):
I know it's a championship or busttype of atmosphere now Milwaukee, and
that's great, But it's the dude'sfirst half season and you thought so highly
of him that you brought him inon a long term contract. You gotta
let him get through the first seasonat least. And if his team flamed
out in the first round again likeBudenholzer's Bucks did last year, yes,

(08:35):
then maybe you think about Doc Rivers. Maybe, but this is not like
when you handed Steve Nash the reinsin Brooklyn, or you handed Jason Kidd
the reins in Brooklyn, or evenSteve Kerr going to Golden State. Where
guys are going, Look, theynever were coaches before what is happening,
and then there were growing pains.Steve Kerr at least had been a front

(08:56):
office guy before with Phoenix. Thisis different. Adrian Griffin's been around the
block. He didn't deserve this evenif things were not going the way you
wanted. But they were still insecond place. They were tied for the
best record that Minnesota and Oklahoma Cityhave out West. They're sitting second in
the East in just a few gamesbehind Boston. It makes no sense,

(09:20):
especially to ditch him for Doc andhe's not coaching right now. They're still
finalizing negotiations that they beat the Calvesthe other night with not Adrian Griffin or
Doc Rivers right away. Has beenan assistant in these situations a ton of
times now where he's had the teamfor like four or five games eight that

(09:45):
Calves was on eight game winning streak, and this Milwaukee Bucks seems somehow persevered
through all of their lack of talentUH and terrible coaching to I don't know,
one last question and then we canmove on because we will see Milwaukee
collapse in the playoffs. That's aguarantee at this point, which is said,
Dame doesn't deserve that, Giannis doesn'tdeserve that. Has anybody gotten more

(10:07):
run out of one title sixteen yearsago than Doc Rivers. Boston gave him
a long leash Los Angeles, Philadelphia, and now Milwaukee. Yet imagine Milwaukee
not bringing him in there, especiallyif they fire, if they've up paying

(10:28):
three coaches that they don't want toget rid of him very quickly. So
like they're gonna give him a prettydecent leash no matter what they do in
the playoffs this year. I can'tthink of anybody recently. I mean,
Rudy t got a shorter leash withtwo titles, although he kind of wanted
to stop coaching. I mean,j and Holzer got fired an hour and
a half after winning a title.Right, it felt that it felt like

(10:52):
it. But again, if youlose in the first round like they did
in five games, I get it. I get it because a lot of
it removed from the title. Buta lot of the concerns that saw them
lose that series were they're all throughoutand they just happened to win the title
on top. You say, justhappened. The team was basically the same,
Yeah, coaching was basically the same. I mean, the only other

(11:13):
guy that getting such a long leashand he never even won a title was
Thibodeau. Right, that's the onlyother guy I can think of where It's
like he just kept popping up overand over and over again. He's not
a title yet, don't worry yet. And you know it could it could
happen to Nick Nurse. He gotthe one in Toronto. He's in Philly
now he's going to get a longleash and a lot of different gigs for

(11:37):
it too, and you know,hopefully he gets more. Rick Carlisle's only
got one title with Dallas, andyou know he's been He got a really
long leash with the Mavericks. Afterthat he's back with the Pacers. So
I mean, there are guys whohave floated around, I guess, but
yeah, it feels like Doc isthe most these high profile jobs. Yeah,
these high profile jobs because Milwaukee maynot be the biggest market out there.

(12:00):
He's got one of the two orthree biggest stars in the entire game.
Yeah, and they're a year anda half or move from say natural
World Championship. I mean, like, this isn't okay. I I reserved
most of my anger for the rivalsof my teams. Frank Vogel is the
other guy. I think that ismore analogous to Doc, where he's got

(12:20):
the Phoenix job and it's gonna getmore jobs. And I'm not real sure
if he's a needle mover championship coach. No, but I don't I don't
think there are a lot of peoplethat really sort of thought Frank Vogel was
a great coach that they wanted tokeep higher. Like like, I think
you tell me if you if youdisagree, and then we can move on.

(12:41):
I think more people thought that teamwon a title not because of him,
if that makes sense, Like thatwasn't his team, so to speak.
And you get this a lot withLebron guys, like they just sort
of is distic good. I mean, I don't know. I mean,
I mean, speaking of Lebron,that was the you know, the last
time someone was fired this early inthe season. Yeah, ever being really

(13:03):
good, you know, it's likeall right, and even he even he
hasn't gotten that much of a run, although he's been good now, I
mean he's been good. Forget it. I don't want to keep getting off
because I'm gonna keep going down arabbit hole. Coaches that deserve it,
verses don't deserve a versus keep gettingthese chances. Yeah, you're right,
this is this is the wrong spot. Doc Rivers would have made sense for

(13:24):
a team that's trying to get backover the hump Chicago, but probably not.
But again, he's just so barelyremoved from the Philly job, where
again that flame out to me,You let Doc Rivers sit for a couple
of years be a broadcaster, andthen you think about it again if you're
the right situation and he's ready tocome back, but you're right handing him

(13:45):
the keys to the car in Milwaukee, especially when they're thirty one and thirteen,
like, yeah, well, I'llnever understand this, never with you
on that. No, okay,all right, association everybody. That's right.
We'll see you guys next week onthe Doc River Sucks Show. Look,

(14:09):
okay, I'm not we're doing withthis. I did want to bring
up something that was kind of magicalthat happened this week, and I just
wanted to get your thoughts on itbriefly before we get into the All Star
Games up of the trade stuff.May I just bring up the fact that
we had a guy score seventy pointsthis week, someone who's really really good.
You may know him. He's theMVP of the league raining and potentially

(14:31):
going to win again. Joel Embiid. And then the same night I was
texting you about this, you justghosted me. Whatever, bro Okay,
big cat Karl Anthony Towns was throwingsixty two of his own down. One
team looks really everybody's really excited aboutone team doing it, the locker room

(14:52):
blowing up over the other guy doingit despite I want to win and one
to a loss. But you know, hey, listen, Joel, do
you agree with your coach in minutesthat that was selfish basketball in that one
game out of eighty two that Katwas going for sixty two, which,
by the way, he was hotand stayed hot. I mean, he
what do you throw down in thefirst half? What was it again?
I gotta go back. It waslike forty eight in the first half.

(15:15):
I think, yes, yeah,that might be forty four. I gotta
go back. It was, butthat was his potential history being made.
But again, you know, yougotta get the win or doesn't count.
Uh. And then joelbi it obviouslygets the win. He goes for for
seventy. So let me ask youfirst about your team. Was it selfish
basketball? Did you hate Canthony townscoring points? Yes? Or no?

(15:35):
I did not hate him scoring pointsin the first half because they were coming
within the flow of the offense.He was knocking down shots, he was
aggressive, he was doing exactly whatKarl Anthony Town should do. And it
was fun, right, It wasfun to watch one guy just heat up
like that. It was and hewas he was definitely on a heater.
I think where Chris Finch has apoint and he has come out to say
repeatedly, I'm not calling out carlAnthony Town specifically, and I don't really

(15:58):
have a problem with the offense.The selfish basketball aspect was defensively, where
they led a Hornet's team that uptill that point had only won nine games,
get to the rim over and overand over again, even though this
is supposed to be the number oneranked defense in the league. And the
selfishness he was talking about is guysjust thought, we're gonna roll in.

(16:18):
We're at home, We're gonna rollover Charlotte. We don't really have to
defend them because we're scoring so much. And then in the second half,
Towns was shot hunting a little bit, but guys were also kind of being
selfish four Towns and force feeding himthe basketball instead of playing within rhythm.
And to me, here's the statthat says it all. Carl Anthony Towns

(16:45):
put up sixty two points in aloss at home where his team blows an
eighteen point lead that they had withI think a minute left in the third
Carl Anthony Towns in plus minus wasa zero on the night that he scored
sixty two points. Plus minus isnot the only stat out there, but

(17:07):
sometimes they tell a story that hegave up in his minutes as much as
he got in scoring sixty two points. And here's the kicker archiche. This
is where it really becomes damning.On the night that Victor Wembinyama gave up
seventy points to Joel Embiid. RememberEmbiid, he didn't do this against nobody.

(17:33):
He did this against the up andcoming kid. And wembin Yama had
thirty three points on the night.Whatever, Victor wembin Yama gives up seventy
and was zero in plus minus forthe evening. That means he gave up
seventy points. And again he's notthe only guy that garted at Joel Embiid
whatever, but in his time wasstill doing other things to get close to

(18:00):
accommodate for seventy points he gave up, whereas Karl Anthony Towns is on the
other end, scoring sixty two butgiving up just what he got to me.
It shows again those were empty pointsfor Towns. He was not the
only guy. There were plenty ofothers who did not play the game plan
defensively, offensively, whatever. Butit does go like Towns, you could

(18:22):
have defended a hell of a lotbetter than you did, and that's been
an ongoing problem with him and aguy like Victor Wenbanyama gets torched yet still
did enough to stay close. Youknow, in the production value, now
that's a lot. I do getthat degree. And also, you know,

(18:44):
Chris Finch is trying to essentially like, we know what Joel Embiide is
right, and we know what hecould do, and we know what this
Philadelphia team can do. We wantto see how far they could get now
with a brand new coach in anew system, and maybe some of those
postseason adjustments and in game adjustments canmake this team do what I've been thinking

(19:06):
for five years that they were goingto do and they just kept not doing.
He's Fitch is trying to make surethis team stays focused and stay focused
on what makes them really good andreally tells what meets him flow, which
is their defense, which is theirdefense, right, And I know in

(19:26):
the locker room, like you know, you know, I think I saw.
They asked Anthony Edwards afterwards, likehey man, he was just hoigh,
just let him score, make kindof thing. And Edwards had eleven
assists. He was he was clearlytrying to set up Towns. Edwards was
conspicuously non aggressive. That's not arecipe for success with the Wolves, but
he was trying to make the rightplay. And again, Towns was not
through two and a half quarters makingstupid decisions. He was knocking down the

(19:51):
shots he should have. It wasthe right move, even as before the
shot before the half. But ashe got cold, I'm fine with it
all. As he got cold andthe rhythm was gone, instead of everybody
going back to that well over andover, they needed to get to the
paint. They were playing an undermanHornets team that was missing most of its

(20:12):
centers. They had to start PJWashington at center, and the Wolves were
chucking threes all night and not gettinginto the paint to use their advantage.
That they had. They were,you know, in size at the rim.
You've got Rudy Gobert Towns as agood post player. Nasrita is a
phenomenal post player. Anthony Edwards getsto the rim all that stuff. They

(20:33):
were not ever collapsing the defense.It was just chucking threes. And then
on the other end, you,as the number one defense in the league,
are a turnstyle to the Hornets,who yes have talent, Terry Rogier,
LaMelo Ball, Miles Bridges, It'sa talented starting lineup, but you
were just letting them march to therim. Again, here's the difference.
The Sixers played a really crappy Spursteam and they beat them. While Embiid

(20:59):
scored seventy points, they got thewin. The Wolves played an equally crappy
Charlotte Hornets team, put up acrap ton of points and lost. They
didn't do their job. So Finch, I think has a point. I
get that he's kind of calling outTowns, but he was rightfully spreading the
rest of the blame around. AndI do look at that night and go

(21:19):
Mike Conley was hurt that night anddidn't play. Would mature Mike Conley have
allowed the offense to get that faroff track and that tunnel vision. I
don't think so. I would hopenot, but again, it is one
game out of eighty two. Hopefullyit's a lesson game. To do that
at home, though, and toblow the eighteen point lead, I think

(21:41):
is really where it becomes obvious,like what Finch is saying, you all
weren't out there to play winning basketball, and he said, we disrespected the
game, and the game came backon us the exact same way, the
exact way it should have, Likethe game should have torched us and it
did. Yeah, and you'd beup a game half. It's a half
game right now. In the West, every single game matters, including against

(22:04):
a door mat like Charlotte. Youcan't roll in and just think. And
I will say this, I've seenthis coming with the Wolves because for the
last four or five games, andthey've been about five hundred, they have
not started well, they've not beenfocused, and then they've been able to
pick things up by the second halfand beat the bad teams. They beat
Detroit, they beat a couple otherbottom feeders, but they lost to Oklahoma

(22:27):
City doing that. Mm hmmmmmmm.I believe you. I believe that.
I believe that they did. Okay, sorry, I don't really have to
believe you. It's on the schedule. It happened the game, so maybe
maybe it's a wake up call.They kind of slept walked into Washington,

(22:48):
didn't play well in the first half, but they beat Washington because the Wizards
suck and they barely beat the Netsby two points the other night. So
it's not the Washington Wizards. Imean they soon to be Virginia withzards.
Right. It's it's that point ofthe season for Minnesota where you've gotten out
to that early lead, you've beenthe front runner, and now are you
gonna be able to dig in duringthe doldrums and keep this going or do

(23:10):
you begin to lose focus because thereare gonna be other teams that come up
behind you that have been running themarathon letting you set the pace, and
they're gonna make a push, andthat's gonna be a real big test of
Minnesota staying power. Now is OklahomaCity and Denver and the Clippers and a
couple of these other really good teamsout west begin to push at them.

(23:30):
Do you have that focus or notto be able to beat the Hornets on
a night where you feel like itshould just be fun in games. I
don't know. I mean, Ifor one and one, that definitely predicted
it to be Minnesota. Okay,see one and two. By the time
we'll get near the All Star break, so I mean, we'll see what
the Doultrums do to other teams withthe weak ones like Denver. If that

(23:52):
was If that was true, Kiche, you wouldn't be on this show because
you would have made so much moneyin your your betting side hustle here that
you wouldn't even need. God blessthose two teams. Man, they've been
good from the very beginning, andthey've been I mean, okay, see
you can say that it's not assexy as possible, but man, they're
young. They got a thousand draftpicks, they got some good young players

(24:14):
that people are excited about, andthat city is embraced that franchise. There
may not be a better single game, big time game atmosphere in the NBA,
but that New York. They're funto watch. The Thunder are fun.
They are a team. They're agood team. If you haven't given
yourself to the first half of theseason, a chance to just, you
know, watch the Thunder, AndI did not think. I think we

(24:38):
said it at the beginning of theseason, before the season that hey,
we're gonna pay attention to okay see, they're gonna be fun to watch,
But we didn't know how far upthe standings they will be. We thought
they'd be playoff contenders, like theywould be teasing and dancing around the playoffs.
We don't think they'd be shooting rightdown the barrel of the number one
seed at this point. This year'sThunder are last year's Sacramento Kings. The

(25:02):
Kings were so much fun last year. Everybody it took a little while to
get to but then once they're like, oh all right, I can get
on board with this. That's whatthe Thunder are this year. And it's
a fun game to watch. Onlyjust the product, but if you just
turn on your stereo, your surroundsound, okay, see home game that
if I had to choose an NBAarena to go to the most massive game,

(25:26):
it could possibly be the one arenaI would want to go to to
experience it. Probably above all elseis okay, see, like I love
just being around rabid enthusiasm you know, there's loud and then there's just rabidity.
There's just the insane amount of thesepeople. It's what it's what Utah.

(25:49):
It's what Utah used to be,you know, what you thought to
be without the racism. Uh,this is what they a well, probably
a bit less, but they arenot a black people in Okase. I'll
just say this that there are notin Utah. That's a fact. That's
a fact that none of it's allLake City. I could prove it.
Don't ask me to, but Icould prove it. The All Star starters

(26:11):
were announced as the All Star Gamegoes back to East and West. I
don't want to spend a lot oftime on this, but how about Lebron
James, a twenty time All Star, and he's obviously going to be the
starter. They're going back to EastWest, which I prefer. Uh.
And so we got see Lebron,Nikolae Jokich, Kevin Durant, Luca and

(26:33):
shag Gil, Jose Alexander and forthe East, you got oh Joel e
beiid Interesting, Jannis, Jason Tatum, Tyresalliburton and should have been Jalen Brunson
not Dame Lillard. But it's DameLillard. I mean, I'm surprised.
I'm surprised that Dame got it becausethis is the fan vote, and usually

(26:56):
things skew towards the biggest markets,usually New York and the l and the
two LA teams kind of have abuilt in advantage. Or back when Yao
was playing, you had the builtin China vote advantage for Rockets players.
That it is that popularity contest.So I was surprised that that Jalen didn't

(27:18):
get it. Well, I wasvoting. Do New Yorkers not know what
the internet is? Let's get theUS in there. Do they think it
was all paper ballots? They hadto go somewhere and let's at good to
like a foot locker somewhere and feelfeel in a ballot. That's not how
this works anymore. I mean,Dames had a very good season. It's
not that he's undeserving. It's justthat Brunson felt about equally deserving. You
know, Jalen Brunt was more deserving. Jalen Brunst is killing it this year.

(27:41):
He is absolutely killing it this year. Milwaukee, Look, how do
they get two players when they're firingtheir coach? That's not fair, fair
question, but I respect the hellout of Tyre's Heliburton and the fact that
the fans have really gotten on thisguy and really sort of been like,
Okay, we're seeing the emergent tosomebody this year. We've talked about he

(28:02):
gets Pascal Siakam next to him,which we'll talk about in a couple of
minutes. So I just want tomention, you know, the de altar
this voting briefly, but the factthat we've talked about for a couple of
years and the fans are now sortof, I think fully on top of
it, because he's a highlight reel. He's a highlight machine. He is
what John Moran was as John Moranwas coming up. As far as the

(28:23):
excitement and the interest to be ableto watch him obviously very different players but
well and the mirror image of himon the other side, even though he's
a better defender. But as faras the excitement factor of a young guard
is Shay Gilders Alexander from Okay SeeSmall Markets lead guard, absolutely the MVP
of their team. Super fun towatch. They just they drive the whole

(28:47):
car with what they do, eventhough they're different players, but they're playing
the same position, and I loveit for both those guys. Lebron twenty
time all Starry, He's in histwenty first season in the NBA. And
here's what's so amazing about that.Regardless of how you feel about Lebron,
what's so amazing about those twenty years. Besides breaking the record, there's not

(29:07):
a single one of us out theregoing, man, it's bs that Lebron's
been a twenty time all start.He didn't deserve three or four of those.
It was the popularity vote. Blahblah blah. Like no, none
of us are saying that. We'reall going yup, yeah, every single
year, really deserve to be there. A great first half of the season.
You understand the vote? Is itjust a popularity thing? I mean,
partly is. But he's killing himin this case. Yep. He's

(29:33):
not putting Yao in when he washurt or you know, yeah some of
these other votes where a guy's gottenin and you go yeah no, or
even like mvpoples where people are justlike, dude, I'm tired of this
one guy winning. So Steve Nashis to win, you know, He's
like, Okay, I mean SteveNash is really good, but was he
the most valuable player? Like thattwice? I could see once twice,

(29:55):
and I loved Steve Nash. I'ma huge Steve Nash. I mean probably
not back to back, Yeah,probably Yeah. Listen, he throws a
mean assist that they'd love to dishthem dimes. Well, and dude was
a knockdown. You know, fiftyshoot or two fifty ninety whatever that means.

(30:17):
Those are just numbers to me,I don't know, so was those
points average per game? They areliterally just numbers. Thank you for understanding.
So we've been gone for a coupleof weeks because well, in my
area we got tons of snow andice, which means it shut down everything
so I couldn't use including the internetapparently most of my equipment. And then
that guy couldn't get a screaming toddleraway from me for twenty minutes to do

(30:37):
a podcast. So we've missed acouple of trades I wanted to be able
to bring up here before we getout of this podcast. Not the most
recent one. I as we startwith the most recent one, actually know
they happened the same day. IfI'm not mistaken, They may have happened
the same day, right, No, if we're talking Siacham and Rosie,
or there are a couple, they'rethey're separated by a week or more.

(30:59):
Actually they really. Yeah. Anyway, when when you get shut down in
the house for a week, wecalled it covid getted. Remember you're you're
a young dad with young kids.That is entirely entire time. I just
don't know what date it is.Time has no meaning, Like, I'm
surprised that we're doing this podcast now. We agree on a date and I
just don't remember the date, SoI'm surprised we're here even in my calendar.

(31:22):
Uh. So the Raptors trade Pascal'sSya cam to the Indiana Pacers.
Uh. And so how this worksis that the three teen deal uh,
the New Orleans Pelicans receive forty dollars, the Pacers receive Pascal Ceeia Cam uh
and a future second round pick.That one comes from the Pelicans, and

(31:45):
the Raptors get Bruce Brown, JordanNora, Kyra Lewis. I'm a I'm
not a big fan Kylos, butI do like Kyler Lewis. A couple
of first round picks in I don'tknow this year's draft and a conditional twenty
twenties pig so Joel. Your thoughtson Pascal Siakam, who was rumored going

(32:06):
to New York not that long ago. That was before certain traits happened,
and now he is going to findhimself on a very half line. Hascor
and defense need not apply Indiana Pacersteam. I love adding Pascal Siakam to
the Pacers. It is an absolutehead scratcher to me that they had to

(32:30):
move Bruce Brown as part of thedeal when they had just acquired him.
He was the big get. Hewas also a guy who was really helpful
for them through the first half ofthe season. It kind of feels like
the Adrian Griffin situation, like whyyou gotta do Bruce Brown like that?
He he helped you get to thispoint. He's a champion. He was

(32:50):
one of the glue guys for thatDenver Nuggets team, and now you're gonna
ship him off to Toronto where they'rein kind of rebuild half rebuild mode.
And yes, he's gonna be reallyvaluable there. Bruce Brown is really valuable
everywhere he goes. I get thathe's not a big scorer. Yeah,
I get that he's not a bigscore and Siakam is the better player,
There's no question about that. WhatI really don't get is you could not

(33:13):
figure out a way to make thisdeal and keep Bruce Brown. I get
that the Pacers have tons of otherwings. Aaron Ne Smith is good bud,
he healed his nice Ben Mathren reallylooks like a good player coming up.
Andrew Nemhard is valuable too. Thoseare all part of the wing rotation
in Indiana. They're part of whathas made that team really fun to watch.

(33:36):
Bruce Brown was still I think themost impactful of all of those five
wings. You couldn't have packaged afew of the other ones, maybe even
Ben Mathren. I don't know.Maybe the Pacers sees something in him long
term. He does look like agood player. He does look likely to
give up on Ben math and Iwould think it's been pretty good. Yeah,
no, I see that, ButI don't know whatever the price was.

(33:59):
Bruce Brown going to Toronto doesn't makea ton of sense to me as
far as his fit there, andgetting rid of him doesn't make a ton
of sense to me for Indiana's case. But at the end, of the
day. You add a clear secondwheel, all star caliber player, and
you don't have to give up MilesTurner. So you have a big three

(34:20):
of Halliburton, Siakam and Turner.You keep together, by and large most
of your supporting cast, and addingPascal Siakam to run with Tyres Halliburton to
me, feels a lot like theKings adding some bonus to run with dearon
Fox. It is really over thetop. It's really really impactful. Siakam

(34:44):
is a two way player. He'ssmart, he's athletic, he does a
little bit of everything. It wasvery clear over the last two years,
couple of years in Toronto. No, he cannot be your number one wheel.
He shouldn't be, but to puthim as your your running mate the
slide Miles Turner back down to thethird option, which I think is a
lot more comfortable for him to concentratedefensively and then to come and just be

(35:08):
that pick and pop center where hereally wants to thrive. Siakam can play
from all three levels. It's aIt's a coup for the Indiana Pacers because
Siakam is is fleet footed man andthis is a Pacers team that like you
said, thank god they want torun as much as they do. The
league needs teams like that. Indianadeserves a team like that. After all

(35:29):
these years of having Desers as yourteam and plotting defensive oriented duke get out.
Those were all well and good.But give Indiana a fun basketball team
and Siakam will fit in with that. And so far, so good.
Like they won the other night againstPhilly, Siakam twenty six and ten and
well that's twenty six points, tennissand thirteen boards. They beat the Sixers

(35:52):
by double digits with no Tyres Halliburton. I like this. I like this
at the same level Sabonis going toSacramento and we've all seen how that worked
out. It on Locked Deer andFox. It made the Kings a legit
threat, and Indiana suddenly becomes alegit threat. I tell you when I
started saw this trade and I waslike, Pascal Siaka is getting traded.

(36:14):
I didn't know who he was gettingtraded to. Sorry, Pascal Saya Kim
was being traded. I was like, oh, I mean, I thought
Toronto. We thought we thought whenToronto was making moves with New York earlier.
We're like, there clearly looks likethey're trying to clear the path for
a rebuild, right, so whynot get a bunch of picks, which
they did, by the way,they got three pers Yeah, and to

(36:34):
take a flyer on quickly and barit as young guys. It makes sense.
Yes. So I was like,all right, well, who they're
gonna go to? And I thoughtit was Indiana And I was like,
oh, I don't love it asa as someone whose team is in the
East. I did not love sortof seeing that Toronto gave him to Indiana,

(36:55):
because I agree Indiana is a dangerousteam now before they had Pascal Siakam
and now the uber dangerous. They'resuper uber, uber dangerous. And it
doesn't matter if they're gonna win theEast. Maybe they will, maybe they
won't, probably probably not. There'sa lot of really good teams ahead of

(37:15):
them. But they're gonna scare somebody. They're gonna scare somebody, and they're
gonna put win one or two gamesin a playoff series that they shouldn't and
maybe that does win you a series. They're also I think three and one
against Milwaukee this season for example.Yeah, that that that that rivalry that's
been starting to heat up really nicely. I'm pretty pumped to see that one
to continue. So, yeah,this this team has built. Remember when

(37:42):
the remember when the Sacramento Indiana tradehappened, right and we were like yeah,
bus, yeah, yeah, thiswas oh sorry for some bonus,
this was a win. We thoughtthis would win for both of them,
like both teams were gonna be ableto win. And Sacramento started winning sooner
because they you know, they wereI think a little bit better equipped maybe
then. Yeah. Uh, Andand now Indiana's they're run on the cusp,

(38:06):
you know, I think they're butuh, to look at the standings
there that think they're they're still inthe playoffs right now, and as the
stands they are, they're twenty fiveand twenty. They hit a skid after
they've got into the NBA Cup youknow, finals or whatever. Yeah,
so they're essentially they're such a threegames out of hosting, right they're three
games out of hosting. They're insixth places, so they are they are

(38:28):
locked into a playoff spot as ofright now, which feels about where they
should be. As much as thatplace sucks, it's a hard place to
win. It's a very talk aboutrabid crowds. That's a crowd. They
love their basketball too. Indiana famousfor loving their basketball, and they are
all in on the Pacers. Andnow they got a really good, really

(38:50):
fun team to watch. They're excitingevery single night, and uh, they're
scaring me. And if you're PascalSiakam, you gotta be like just high
fiv in the sky on this oneto go. All right. We had
a good run in Toronto, Igot a ring, but it was clearly
not going anywhere at this point.And now I get to go back into
a situation like where the Raptors were. You know, not a huge market,

(39:12):
but the fan base is one hundredand ten percent behind their team.
And you're back into a well coachedsituation with Rick Carlisle. You've got talented
teammates, they need you, theywant you there, and he's reached that
point of his game where it PascalSiakam is no longer an upside guy.
He's been an upside guy for along time, but he's in the prime
of his career and you get toshow out and really challenge like, yeah,

(39:36):
Boston, Milwaukee and Philly all feellike they're better, but is new
York and Cleveland and Miami better thanIndiana. No, they all feel like
they're in that same tier where anybodycould win one of those series. And
like you said, Indiana's going toscare some people, and this is this
is good for them. They couldscare their way into the Eastern Finals.
Absolutely, I could see them inthe Eastern Finals, and depending on who

(39:57):
the matchup is. I mean,I don't hate their odds to be able
to do it with the way thislineup is constructed right now, I don't.
I don't think they really want tosee somebody like New York or Miami
who is going to gum things upand turn it into that slow, duke
it out type of sloppy game,because that's the only way, not the
only way, but the preferred waythat New York or Miami will win games.

(40:21):
For Miami, that probably is theonly way they can win. But
you know New York can do ita couple of different ways, so you
probably don't want to see them.But even still, if I'm New York
or Miami, I don't really wantto see the Pacers and go we have
to play this perfectly and turn itinto such a slop fest. To even
have a chance. We cannot runwith these guys. We cannot run with

(40:43):
them. I don't think New Yorkcan run with them, but I think
New York can slop it up.But they're also more skilled than they've they've
been at any time, any timeproblem in the last fifteen years to be
able to run a little bit,like if they needed to, you know,
if they can manufacture offense. Atthis point, I agree with that
other trade that was happening. Iwanted to get your thoughts on Terry Roseier

(41:06):
is no longer a Charlotte Hornet whathe was in Charlotte. Anyway, Kyle
Lowry is going to go away fromthe Heat in that exchange, and also
the Heater give a lottery protected draftpick for I don't know, it's like
three or four years from now.It doesn't really matter at this point,
but the Miami Heat trade away KyleLowry, thirty seven year old, Kyle

(41:28):
Lowry, seventeen years in the leagueto get Scary Terry Rogier Miami twenty four
to twenty one. Right now,they're hovering around viability for the playoffs.
But we've seen this from Miami athousand times. It feels like that they
don't have to be great, thatthey just have to get in, and
once they get in, as longas they've been building their team, they're

(41:49):
fine with how they go. Thisis that team that always just quietly makes
a move for two. Next thing, you know, they're like the sixth
seed, maybe the seven or eventhe eight seed, and you're like,
oh, I don't want to seeand here they go, they make another
move, getting rid of Lowry.What'd you think of moving on from Lowry?
Moving on from Lowry? It sucksfor Kyle. They brought him in
a few years ago. He wasa big get at that time, you

(42:12):
know, leaving Toronto, being aformer champion. He played the good soldier
wrote and he he fit in Miamifor sure. He's not going to stay
in Charlotte. They will try toseek a trade for him before the deadline,
and if they don't get it,they'll buy him out. So Kyle
Lowry will wind up on a differentcontender somewhere as a backup point guard.
And good for Kyle, But forMiami this is a godsend. You know,

(42:37):
we know they're a defensive oriented team. We know they're about keeping it
close out executing people and just kindof strangling the game with their execution.
But Miami is fourth worst, sotwenty seventh in offense in the league.
Oh really, Yeah, they're onlyaveraging one hundred and ten points per game,

(42:59):
which back in the day that wouldhave been insane. That's an insanely
high number for back in the day, But in today's NBA that gets you
twenty seventh place offensively, and theybadly need scoring help. They need some
punch, especially off the bench.I think the offense in the starting lineup
with Tyler Hero, with Jimmy Butler, with bam Adebayo, you can make

(43:19):
that offensive work no matter who jumpsin. But the issue is that over
the years, the last couple seasons, Miami has lost some of their really
helpful scoring guys, and so TylerHero used to be the scorer off the
bench that would get the second unitgoing. Right now they've started Terry Rozier,
but I don't know if that's thebest spot for him, and I

(43:40):
think they're just taking a look tryingto get him in sync with the rest
of the starters because he is goingto play down the stretch with the starting
group. But I do think TerryRozier has shown himself both in Charlotte in
Boston. Ideally he is your sixthman gunner. He takes over the Tyler
Hero role for this team. Ideally, put Himehawk as junior back in the

(44:01):
starting lineup when he's healthy, maybeeven start a spot guy like Josh Richardson
or Caleb Martin. But let Rosierget all the shots he wants with that
second unit, and suddenly he solidifiesthe major weak point for them, which
is what do you do when Jimmysits or bam Adebio has to sit or
Tyler Hero sits. Yeah, youtry to keep one of those guys on

(44:22):
the floor at all times, butrealistically, all three of those guys our
second wheel, maybe third wheel,offensive type of players. They can be
the number one guy on certain nightsand Bam I think especially. But Jimmy's
getting to that point in his career. How much longer do you want to
keep asking him to do that andbe one of your lead defensive guys.

(44:44):
So to have another guy in therewho you can cycle through. No,
Terry Rozier is not a number oneoption, but dude's gonna chuck shots.
He's gonna make shots, and thattakes some pressure off the rest of your
scorers and it starts to hold downthat second unit. Terry Rogier can generate
offense for himself or for other people, and that opens somebody like Duncan Robinson

(45:07):
back up. That opened somebody likeKayla Martin or even Kevin Love here and
there to just be able to knockdown shots because somebody else got it to
them. And it wasn't just becausethey passed seventeen times during the possession to
try to get a good look.You had Rogier setting them up. So
it is a great move for Miami. Like you said, it's the type
of move that you see them seemto make all the time, and here

(45:30):
they are. What do you didyou think that the value trade squared up
for you? Like a future alottery protected twenty I like they have twenty
twenty seven and and Kyle Lowry forTerry Rogier. Do you think that's yeah?
I think it is. Miami hasmade the commitment as a franchise DNA

(45:53):
that they will try to compete everysingle year. And while there they'll say
they're competing for a championship every singleyear, And I get that that's great.
Really, what they've committed to iswe will be a playoff team in
the Hunt every single year. Soas long as that is still the the
mo O. Barring you know,one of those disaster seasons where everybody's hurt

(46:15):
and there's nothing you can do aboutit. You have Eric Spolster locked in.
Long term, you have that DNA. That pick that they conveyed to
Charlotte is going to be middle ofthe road at best, barring that type
of disaster that nobody can you know, can insulate against. So yeah,
I thought it was fair. IfI'm Charlotte, they're clearly heading into blow

(46:37):
up territory again. And you've you'vegot those You've got those younger guys like
LaMelo Ball, like Miles Bridges ifhe can stay out of the court system.
Listen, it's a court system orinjuries like to the to the big
guys, like, it's just thatthat team Hayward can't stay healthy. Yeah,
it's just poor Hayward. Like fouryears or so, it's just been

(47:01):
you feel bad for the guy.Like as soon as he got the boss
and it was over, like itwas over literally like nine to one,
and he was never the same.So Terry Rozier just doesn't match up age
wise with what's going to have tohappen in Charlotte for them to be able
to move forward. So to geta pick out of it, to get
on out from under that salary,knowing that, no, we're not a

(47:21):
playoff team this year, Let's savea little bit of money, Let's get
a pick, and let's give minutesto some of the other guys that we
want to get a look at,because Rogier deserves to play. I thought
it made sense for both teams tobe fair. Charlotte's only seven games out
of the play in so granted,it's hard to be eliminated before the All
Star breaks, So right, Imean, we are no there. There's

(47:45):
there's no chance that they're gonna suddenlybe better than Atlanta, Brooklyn, Toronto,
Chicago. The teams they're ten andthirty two. You got no faith.
You've got no faith, you'll think. Okay, uh, speaking of
no faith, let's wrap it upwith the Washington Wizards or as I alluded

(48:06):
to before and actually mentioned but soonto be Virginia Wizards, because they will
definitely be moving. Nice job,But what's that guy think he Leonsis or
something. The Washington Wizards of Virginia. Let's go to the La Angels of
Anaheim. I love it. Ilove it, and uh they have fire
West Unsell Junior as this is themost recent news I think we have like

(48:29):
this in the All Star Game.West Unsell Junior is no longer the head
coach. I don't know if yousaw this. He was seventy seven and
one thirty. It's pretty good,pretty good. We've been there for three
years. Yeah, so he's beenreplaced by Brian Keith, one of the
top assistants there. Let me askyou just a question about Washington in general.

(48:52):
Uh, there was a brief momentwhere like they're pretty good. Like
it was brief, but it wasyou know, Bradley Bill lost the right
And it's not my job. Idon't get a lot of money to pay
pay to uh to like figure outhow to fix Washington. But if you
ask me of the of the franchisesthat are like bad bad right now,

(49:15):
and that includes like a five winDetroit team that we're talking about San Antonio,
Portland, you know, say Memphistoo. If you're telling me the
bad bad teams in the league,the bleakest hope, it seems to me
is in Washington, because I justI don't know how this gets turned around
in the next five years. AndI don't know. I didn't even know,

(49:40):
Like they're moving Western sell to anadvisory role in the office and then
I completely get rid of them.But I don't know how changing coaches sort
of fixes Washington, and I don'tknow if they want it to be fixed.
But I don't even know if escapegoatit's helpful at this point. I
just there's such a hole that Idon't know what this accomplishes, and I

(50:05):
don't know how you fix them anytimesoon. There's a couple of guys on
the roster where you go, okay, they can be pretty decent. Kyle
Kuzma clearly a starter, Denny Abdiyamight be a starter, but Tias Jones,
Jordan Poole, Daniel Gafford, whoare all starting, are probably better
off being on the second unit ofa good team. Everybody else who's in
that second unit right now is atbest a low rotation player. Blal Kolabali

(50:32):
is a guy that a prospect forthem out of France, has shown some
flashes, but again at best lookslike he develops into a rotation player.
Marvin Bagley, the third who theyjust got, who's averaging eighteen points a
game for the Wizards. It's greatto see the former number two pick get
another chance here to actually get minutesand maybe resurrect his career. This would

(50:54):
be the place to do it.But again, at best, what is
vaguely gonna do stick in the NBAbe a rotation scorer off the bench.
They don't have, you know,San Antonio sucks, but they've got wemban
Yama, They've got Devin Vessel,They've got Kelden Johnson. Detroit sucks,
but there are some good young playersthere who you look at and go,

(51:17):
we can do something with this.We can do something with Kate Cunningham and
Jalen Duran. Hopefully we can dosomething with Jade and Ivy. The other
bad teams that you mentioned, youknow that are sitting at the bottom.
Let me pull the standings back upagain. Charlotte smiphis, Memphis is bad,
but Memphis has been destroyed by injuryright the suspensions, Like they're bad

(51:38):
teams, and then there's just theblack hole of DC. Charlotte's got LaMelo
Ball. They've got got some otheryounger players to who they know are starters.
Portland maybe is the closest like analogyto Washington Portland we know, we
know what Portland's doing. Portland's gota vision for the yes and Portland when

(52:02):
you look at their roster right now, they are sitting on assets that they're
just trying to figure out what todo with them. Malcolm Brogden is not
going to be a Blazer long term. He's going to be on a contender.
Jeremy Grant is going to be ona contender. DeAndre Ayton could start
and stay in Portland for a whileduring the rebuild, but he could also

(52:22):
go somewhere else and be a starter. And then you've got some prospects and
Scoot Henderson and Anthony Simon, shadeOn Sharpen and that sort of thing.
You know, Matisse Steibel can bea rotation player. They just have a
better cupboard right now player wise.And I haven't looked at the draft picks
out of who's stockpiled what, buteven Portland's in a better situation, though

(52:43):
things seem equally bleak on the court, So I agree with that assessment.
Washington is rudderless. They brought inthese guys. You know, Tias Jones
deserved his chance to see if hecould be a starter in this league.
Jordan Poole deserved a chance to seeif he could be Daniel Gaffer deserved his
chance. But you're seeing right nowthat they're overmatched as full time starters,

(53:04):
and it doesn't help when you havea bench that's a mess coaching. I'm
sure it didn't help, but it'sBut wessel Unsell Junior was a heralded assistant
for a long time coming up.He also has cut his teeth in a
lot of different places and probably deservesto get another look somewhere else. So
yeah, coaching's not the issue.Let me just shay that and I just
looked it up. For Washington's upcomingdraft picks, Okay, this year,

(53:29):
they have a first and second fromPhoenix. They don't have their own draft
pick. They have the right toswap the twenty twenty four first round protect
it Selick selection between thirteen and thirtyfor Phoenix is twenty twenty four pick right,
and then Memphis has the right toswap his twenty twenty four first round
pick for the less favorable of thePhoenix and the Washington pick, so not

(53:50):
the best pick. A second roundpick. Twenty twenty five, they have
their own first round and one secondround. Twenty twenty six, they have
two first rounds and uh two seconds, three second four sex Tex second round
picks. So we're a couple ofyears away from even getting some young college
or European league talent into this situation. And if you want to talk about,

(54:16):
you know, getting free agents tocome to DC, it ain't happening.
It ain't happening because unless you're willingto pay obscenes amount of money.
And I don't think for a guywho's just a mercenary, because that would
be the only reason he'd be therein Washington. Right, Their future is
tough, man, because they don'thave a lot of assets. Their future

(54:37):
assets don't look great. It doesn'teven benefit them to be bad, as
what you're saying. It doesn't evenbenefit them to be bad. Yeah,
like, okay, maybe next yearyou can be bad, and that's okay,
man, that's tough man. That'sa tough job to take. Granted,
it's one of only thirty in theleague, so you get to be
able to have a chance to makea lot of money and stuff, but

(55:00):
that I would think a job likethat should give you more of a leaf.
Although he did have three years,so it's a decent amount of time.
But I don't know, mean,if you liked him enough to keep
them around, right leaves in thefront office, that you didn't just want
to pay him to go away,just pay him to hide him somewhere,

(55:20):
And I don't know why you justsort of pick them off the court.
It sounds like that. It soundslike it was kind of a mutual decision,
like he showed up and they talkedabout they sat down and everybody looked
and said, we're we're not wherewe need to be. And maybe he
was feeling it too, like Ijust I can't do any more than I've
done. And because the organization likeshim and they trust him and that sort

(55:42):
of thing. It's kind of likewith Dwayne Casey and Detroit. Right things
did not go the way they weresupposed to for Dwayne Casey as coach,
but they all respected the effort thatwas being made and who he was as
a person and said he can stillbe valuable to the organization. And Dwayne
Casey's in the front office and lettingmany Williams lose instead. In twenty twenty

(56:05):
eight their first round pick. Theyhave three first round picks except for the
best pick. Of those picks willgo to either Brooklyn or Phoenix, not
them. So like we're backed intoa corner. Yeah, Brooklyn's going to
receive quote the one of the twomost favorable of those picks. The best

(56:30):
thing you can do is here atthe deadline. I think you could get
a first round pick for any ofyour five starters. In the right situation,
trade all five of those starters andtry to get first round picks,
even if they look like they're goingto be middling first round picks. Just
improve your odds to be into thedraft. See what you can get.

(56:52):
You never know if one of thoseteams really has a rough year and it
turns into something better. And younever know if you find a gem at
sixteen it happened, or a guyat eighteen or whatever. It happens all
the time. Okayse built up byhaving a thousand second round pick. Basically,
you need to trade Tias Jones.He will be valuable on a different
team. Jordan Poole hasn't had theyear he wanted, but as a sixth

(57:13):
man gunner, somebody might give afirst round pick. Denny Avdya is a
prospect and he's shown a lot ofpromise, especially over the last like twenty
games. It really seems like he'sturning around. Now is the time to
cash out on Denny Avdya. KyleKuzma. People know he can score.
They know that he can be avaluable starting level forward in the league.
Daniel Gafford is a guy. Maybeyou can't get a first round pick for

(57:35):
him, but you can get ahandful of seconds. Maybe somebody out there
gives a first He is athletic,he can hold down a starting spot as
your fifth guy in a lineup.You think he can do it seconds for
that guy. For Daniel Gafford,I think you could Daniel Gafford if you
watch him play. He is anathlete. There is there is promise there,
and he's not a dumb player likehe brings a lot of valuable things.

(57:58):
But don't expect him to be yourfourth best player. You know if
he's gonna be your fifth starter orhe's going to be in a time share
at center. I think a lowfirst round or a pick swap or a
couple of seconds you can get forDaniel Gafford mhm, trade trade everybody else
you know in that starting lineup,and they had to be bad, but

(58:20):
they had another first round pick,but they traded it to the Knicks for
this year. Just bad man,just just just bad management everywhere. It's
just it's just tough. And thenobviously you have the the story that we've
been alluded to over and over againthat the owner wants to basically take all
of the Washington teams that he owns, which of them and them with the
capitals right, the dockey team,and then bring up to Virginia build a

(58:42):
whole new stadium whatever. Man,it was up for DC fans because I
think when they got a good teamto watch, that's a that's a pretty
that's a pretty uh pretty good fanbase too. When they got a good
team and they got pretty good attendancefor being a terrible team this year,
when when you when you look atthe number, look, I don't need
to get a good one, butyou go look on your own, they're
they're pretty well attended for being sobad, which is nice to see.

(59:05):
All right, job, that's gonnado it. For did we name this
the Regi Miller You Suck episode?Or was this the doc Rivers You Suck
episode? Why not both? Whynot both? You terrible people? Joeysh
say goodbye to the good people,goodbye everybody. If you want the audio
only version of this year podcast,get us on spreak or Spotify, iTunes,
wherever you find your podcast. Ifyou want video version, we are
on YouTube like share, subscribe ringthe bell over there, and we will

(59:29):
do this again sometime, hopefully soonin the future. Theoretically, right,
theoretically, you know who doesn't suck. Joe Cordis, That's who doesn't suck.
Che is all right to it.He's pretty decent.