Episode 365 - Clint Hurdle

Ben and Russell are joined by a baseball legend: former player and manager Clint Hurdle.

Clint talks the pair through his playing career, his coaching career and his two stints as a manager of a Major League ballclub, in a fascinating discussion of the highs and lows of professional sport!

Timestamps:
00:00-04:30: Intro and 'Hurdle-isms', Clint's new book
04:30-07:05: His role as special advisor
07:05- 19:48: Draft, SI cover and playing career
19:48-28:44: Coaching and becoming manager
28:44-39:50: Rocktober and the Rockies era
39:50-52:09: The Pirates era
52:09-59:03: Final questions

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:17):
Hello, and welcome to Batflips and Nerds, the Baseball Podcast
with a British twist. I am your host, Ben Carter,
for a very special episode, not least because I have
the main man, Russell Easom here with me.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
How are you, Russell?

Speaker 3 (00:30):
I'm doing good, Ben, I'm doing good. Yeah. I'm looking
forward to this, but I think you might be a
little bit more.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
I am very much looking forward to this because we've
got no one else but the man himself, Clint hurd Or,
joining us to chat a little bit at baseball. It's
a privilege, as you say, as a Rockies fan. Clint
is someone who I've looked up to you for a
long time, so it's great to get a chance to
have a conversation. For those that don't know, Cliff has
having an extraordinary career in baseball and life in baseball.
Really played for four different franchises across a ten year

(00:57):
career and obviously managed two French to over twenty five
hundred games as a manager at that and we were
just discussing before we started recording that he is back
at spring training in Scotts, Arizona, where the Colorado Rockies again.
Do you know what year in baseball. This is for
you now, Clint, how many it's been.

Speaker 4 (01:14):
It's a big number, Ben, it's number fifty five.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (01:17):
Zero.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yeah, that's extraordinary.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
Well, congratulations, that's an impressive effort.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
But thanks so much for joining us. How are you?

Speaker 4 (01:24):
Thank you for coming on healthy and happy, probably better
than I deserve. And I do appreciate you all adjusting
the time with me and for me today.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
Thank you very much, No problem, no problem, it's great
to chat.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
I think we'll get into all parts of your career
and other things as part of this conversation, but I
thought we might start with one of your more recent projects,
which is your new book. I know it's only been
released very recently, and I know that that was a
labor of love and passion. I think I heard on
a different podcast you're talking about the trials and tribulations

(01:58):
you went through to get this thing way you to publishing.
I'd be interested to hear what the process of writing
that was, like. I know you write every way yourself.
What was it like to go back for your your
life and career in baseball and put together some thoughts
and huddlisms as you call them.

Speaker 4 (02:12):
It was you know, what. It was therapeutic in some ways.
It was enlightening in some ways to you know, re
visit uh some good times, some hard times, some sad times,
some fantastic times, and then make sure that I had
I had the facts right by calling people up and
revisiting some of the sequence of events. Fact check does work.

(02:36):
Spell check does work. But you need to talk to
people when you're talking about people, especially when you're talking
about relationships with people. And I think we managed everything
up very very well. And it basically was the book
that became a labor of love. It's just trying to
share experience, strength and hope. It's not that I've known
it all. Matter of fact, I didn't know a whole lot.
I've learned a lot in the hard way. But I

(02:58):
thought it was a good times on a challenge from
a good friend of mine, John Gordon, who was a
very very well known inspirational writer and speaker has seventeen
best selling books. He basically just challenged me to write
my own book. I was looking for an easier, softer way.
I wanted a co author to write the book with me,
somebody who had written books, who would do all the

(03:19):
hard work and I just spit out brilliance from time
to time and share these stories, let him document everything.
But it just didn't work out that way, and John
told me Clinton, you need to share your own story
with your own words, because I think it has value
and I think it will help. So I took upon
the task and it probably took me a little over

(03:39):
nine months from the time I typed the first word
to the time I type the last, and then a
couple more months of you know, putting an index, putting acknowledgments,
in coordinating some endorsements and things. So almost a year
and it's out now. It seems to have some good traction.
I've gotten a lot, a lot of lots of reviews.

(04:02):
I think anytime a book can make you laugh and cry,
you know to do both, and that's an enjoyable read.
So so far, still good.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
I'm glad to hear that.

Speaker 1 (04:13):
I did have a check before we started recording, and
the book is available on Amazon here in the UK,
so fans who are on this side of the pond
are able to get hold of it and check that out.
I would recommend doing so. There are some amazing stories
from Well Today as well. You mentioned during Spring training

(04:34):
with the Colorado Rockies. I'm fascinating what does your role
look like nowadays? How involved are you with the team.
What does spring training number fifty look like for.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
You at the moment?

Speaker 4 (04:45):
My job title is a special assistant to the general manager,
and as I went through baseball, I ran into a
bunch of different special assistants to the general manager. It
seemed to be a role that was somewhat defined. You
could bounce around a lot of different ways. You could
work in the minor leagues, you could work in the
big leagues. You could do some scouting, you could work

(05:06):
some player development, and you basically did things that maybe
the general manager didn't want to do, or to help him,
provide him with a different lens at the sea things.
So I was actually retired for two years. After I
was fired by the Rockies in nineteen I had a
little downtime and I thought things through and realized that
I was going to get paid for two years to

(05:27):
not work, which had never happened to me before in
my life. And I thought I'd move upon it with
two young children at home, still in high school. So
the Bill of November I stopped. I stopped working the
middle of March, the world stopped working. COVID hit and
everything was shut down. So I was able to homeschool
a couple of kids, spend a couple of years at home,
and then the Rockies called and asked me to basically

(05:49):
spend time in our player development system. It's what I've
done a lot of I'm helping grow kids, grow the
young players up, helping them grow the young managers and
coaches up, and report to our our general manager and
the people at the major league level on you know,
who's looking good, who's showing improvement, Maybe who do we
need to talk about in a little different venue. It's

(06:12):
been very rewarding. Our farm system has become one of
our strongest assets, even though our major league record has
been really rough the last two seasons. We have developed
a lot of young talent. We've got more young pitchers coming,
more young players coming. We saw some of them last year,
two Gold Glovers to bar and Doyle. We saw some
big arms in the bullpen show up. We got more

(06:34):
guys coming. So that's been my role. I work about
two weeks a month, which is really really cool, up
and down the minor league system, up and down the
Mynor League system, a trip to the Dominican I do
some instruction league work, so all baseball related. My finger's
still on the pultse of all things Rockies. But I
also still have time to get home and spend with
my our daughter Maddie and who's still at home, and

(06:57):
my wife Carlo.

Speaker 2 (06:59):
Well, that sounds deal.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
And you've got me fired up about the Rockies, just
with your with your small tipbits there on the future
looking bright that that is what we want to hear,
I think, and I maybe we can take it all
the way back to the beginning, really off your professional
career at least, and maybe even just before that. I
saw that that maybe things could have been very different
on your journey, because I believe you had the offer

(07:21):
to play college.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
Football and baseball at the University of Miami rather than
turn pro.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
How strongly did you consider pursuing that path rather than
than going straight into the pros.

Speaker 4 (07:31):
I probably didn't consider as much as my parents did.
My dad was not an agent by any means, but
he was very committed to leveraging the best opportunity for me.
We didn't know when I'd get drafted, what round, what pick,
but the football scholarship combined with the baseball scholarship. I

(07:52):
should say there were two teams that would let me
play both sports, the University of Virginia University of Miami.
I had a lot of individual teams offer either football
or baseball. The most interesting concept or opportunity I had
was I had an academic scholarship offer to Harvard University.
My mother, my mother, from a very early age, trussed

(08:12):
the importance of grades, end of learning, and of reading,
and to this day, I'm still an avid reader. I
still want to learn. Part one of the chapters in
the book Hurdleisms is about a white belt mentality being
a lifelong learner. But my dad wanted to make sure
we had options and try to leverage those options and
the best of his ability, so to play college football

(08:32):
and baseball. It was probably real until a point, it
wasn't real to me because since the time I was five,
I wanted to be a big league ball player. I
wanted to be won a World Series. I wanted to
you know, I wanted to do that. And when the
offer came, and the offer was significant enough, there was
a no brainer. We were going to go to baseball.

Speaker 3 (08:52):
And so like how different was that world claimed?

Speaker 5 (08:55):
Because I obviously Ben and I have we've been following
baseball for fifteen ty years. The what was the draft
like back in that day, back when you went in,
you went in the first round? Was there was there anything?
How long did it take you to actually know that
it's happened. It's not being released on social media in
an instant, is it?

Speaker 2 (09:14):
No?

Speaker 4 (09:14):
It wasn't you know what it's It's almost like I
feel like it was in black and white. It wasn't
even in color. It was so long ago. Scouts would
see you play, you would fill out a note card
for them. They would hold the note card. Every once
in a while you would get a phone call on
a rotary phone from a scout. He'd pick your brain.
Some of them would actually show up at your house

(09:36):
and ask a few questions. But the day of the draft,
I was told by there was three clubs that let
me know that there's a good chance that I would
go in the first round, and if I did, there'd
be a follow up phone call. Well. One of the
teams was the Oakland Athletics. They were picking last. This
was in the seventies with the Oakland Athletics were one
of the best teams in baseball. Charlie Finley is still

(09:58):
on the team. At that time, he was kind of
an nonsense owners so that the scout told me, hey, look,
we drafting the first round. Here's my number. You call
me and the offer's twenty five thousand dollars. That's it.
That's all we got. So it was kind of a
booboo lip.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
You know.

Speaker 4 (10:12):
It was kind of sad because you work your whole life,
you think maybe I'm gonna do in the first round.
A guy calls you, yep today, you know, if we drafted,
here's this is all you're going to get, and you
got to call us to let us another you're taking
it or not. So fortunately I wasn't drafted by them.
I was drafted by the Royals, the ninth picking the nation,
and after some negotiations by my dad, you know, we
found a common ground. We both believed it was a
fair deal. But it was a rotary phone call. And

(10:35):
then it was the scout coming over to my house
a day later, and I was sitting down having pizza,
you know, with my sisters, my mom and dad, just
you know, six or seven people. It was nothing like
the you know, extravaganza that it's turned in today, it's
truly you know, it's a celebration, it's an event. We
do it over the All Star break. Now it's it's

(10:55):
a it's a big profile deal. But back in the day, guys,
it was not that big of a deal. What for
us it was because it was still the culmination about,
you know, a dream since you had in the backyard
since you were five.

Speaker 5 (11:06):
No, I was just going to say that, like from
from some bios that I've read, that like the Kansas
City Scout with Bill Fishtt, with somebody that you were
quite friends when the family was friends with anyway, because
you'd known him for a while, so I guess it
felt was he the one you did know the best
as well?

Speaker 3 (11:22):
And did that play like anything into that conversation.

Speaker 4 (11:26):
It didn't hurt by any means. Bill had seen me
play for three years. He actually came to the first
game I played at high school. I was a sophomore,
and that at that time sophomore was tenth grade. We
had a senior catcher, Waldo Williams was an All American
football player a high school end up going to Florida State.
Behind the plate, so all the scouts were going to
see Waldo. I happened to be a freshman, a sophomore
on the team, which didn't happen very often in those days,

(11:49):
and I caught his eye in tenth grade and eventually
he would have I think what they call impromptu workouts
or whether they were whether they were legal or not,
I don't know, but he'd say, Hey, meet me at
Coco rock Ledge Baseball Park and I'll throw you some VP.
And what kid wouldn't want to go hit VP? You
know from a big league scout. So we must have
done that a dozen times. He knew my mom, knew

(12:10):
my dad by far and away, the closest person in
the professional game that we knew. So it was very
sweet that he was the guy that they drafted us.
He was the one that was able to come over
because we all kind of celebrated the success. He put
the work in. We put the work in, you know,
we had put it together as a team, and we'd
see where it going. Funny part was a few years later,
I was traded to Cincinnati and Bill Fisher was actually

(12:31):
the pitching coach on the Cincinnati Reds at that time,
so we got to rekindle our friendship.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
That's amazing, awesomet I know one thing that happened very
soon after you drafted, was was the.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
Sports Illustrated cover.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
You know, that's one of the things that I'm sure
comes up in and a lot of the conversations that
you have and the front cover of that nineteen seventy
six was it outing this year's phenome on the front
cover with your photo? There must have been I mean
at that time that was the equivalent of going viral
on social media, right. There must have been enormous pressure

(13:05):
on your shoulders and a weight of expectation that came
with that. Did you feel at the time, looking back now,
did it have any effect on you? Or were you
just you know, excited to play ball and ready to
show what you could do.

Speaker 4 (13:17):
All of the above? I think I was excited to
play ball. We had been given a heads up. The
SI group had been around the spring training and taking
pictures of various young players that they'll never tell you
it's going to be on the cover normally until you're
on the cover, but they let us know that that
when that addition would come out. And one of the

(13:40):
funnier things that happened to me was they took my picture.
They took a picture of Willie Wilson, Rich Gaiale, three
guys on our team, a bunch of other young players.
But every morning, on the way to the ballpark, I
would stop at a seven eleven and I would get
a quarter milk and a honey bun. It's like a
big miscuit, a big don't every morning, and normally the

(14:02):
same kid was working there in the morning, he's about
my age. Well, this morning I walk in and I
put the honeybun down, the milk on the counter. I
look at him. He looks at me. He looks down
at the counter where there's three magazines. They didn't have
a magazine rap back then. You know, you go in
the convenience stores. Now there's fifty magazines. They had three magazines, Newsweek,

(14:24):
Life and Sports Illustrated. So he looks down. I do
not even watching what he's looking at it, and he
looks back at me. He looks down again. So the
second time he looks down, I look down. I see
my picture on the cover of the Sports Illustrated. I
look at him. He looks at me. I freak out.
I walk out of the store, no milk, no honey bun.
I get in my car and I just sat there

(14:45):
for a couple of minutes, thinking, Okay, something's changing. I
didn't even know what it was, but I knew something
was going to be different. So I don't think at
the time I realized how much I was going to
internalize maybe some pressure, or try and do more than
I was capable of doing to validate the fact that

(15:08):
I was on the cover of a national magazine at
the age of twenty years old. I go to a clubhouse,
you know, an hour forty five minutes later, and there's
guys who've been playing ten years the big leagues that
have never had their picture on the cover of anything,
and now this young kid walks in as a rookie.
He's on the cover Sports Illustrated. And you know, there

(15:30):
wasn't bad blood in the clubhouse. I think guys were
just kind of like, really like, what's he done? But
when you get out within the league throughout the rest
of the season and you're playing other teams and guys
who've been around and you're this young kid, it got
a little dicey at times. I tried, probably to do
more than I was capable of doing again at times
to validate you know that. I won't say that that

(15:54):
was the reason, but I didn't. I lead a lot
of lessons, and I think that's the one thing that
I'm most proud of is regardless of how I handle
a good bad or and different lessons learned from it, yes,
and then to be able to recreate a new narrative
from it because I really never was a phenom playing.

(16:16):
I've never been a feno, managing or coaching, but I
was able to take that career and turn it into
a coach and a manager and a person now who's
been fifty years in the game and still hopefully providing
some impact and some influence and just trying to help
people on their way.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
He kind of preempted my next question a little bit there.
I'm interested to know what you said that it did
have a big impact on kind of rest of your
career after you feel done playing. But what I guess
what were the specific lessons or the biggest lessons I
suppose that you took from having been there, done that,
played the game at the highest level that you then
took into your philosophy coaching, whether that be you know,
helping out young hitters, and more stuff to do with

(16:55):
technique and the ways to be a successful hitch at
the major league level.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
But also I guess later.

Speaker 1 (16:59):
In your career as a manager, as a clubhouse leader,
as someone who had to galvanize a whole locker room,
you know, having gone through struggles at the major league level,
having been on the front cover of s I all
of this other stuff. What were the main things that
kind of toold you up to be really successful in
your post playing career.

Speaker 4 (17:16):
Well, I think, you know, Rustin Benz, just to give
you you probably got the back notes. But there was
a lot of other challenges throughout my life that I
that I had to meet, some self created. I was
divorced twice and I'm not proud of that, but I've
you know, there's a lot of collatteral damage that comes
with divorce. There's a lot of emotions, and unfortunately I

(17:37):
was the common fabric in both of those. By going
through failed marriages and maybe not producing on the field
like a lot of people think you should. I tried
to find ways to numb the pain, and I actually
drank myself into becoming an alcoholic, and it was a

(17:58):
life that I was living in disgise a lot of
times because a lot of people never probably knew the
pain or the sometimes embarrassment that I wasn't what I
should have been in the eyes with so many other people.
And my parents have been married their whole life. My
dad's ninety one, my mother's eighty nine. They've been married
going to be sixty years. And I can't even have

(18:18):
two marriages that add up to like fifteen or ten
or whatever it was. So you feel that you're trying
to coach. Then you're done playing. You weren't probably what
everybody thought you should have been as a player. Now
what can you be as a coach? No idea about
managing that happened down the road. But there was a
lot of opportunities for me to learn from mistakes, to

(18:38):
seek help from others, and then to take responsibility for
my actions, not make excuses. All these things add up
the perfect coaching lessons in a lot of ways, because
as my players got to realize over time, there wasn't
a whole lot they could bring into me as a
coach or a manager that I hadn't walk through in
some degree or some level, whether on the field or

(19:00):
off the field, and at least more often not. I
can tell hey, I'm not sure what's going to work
for you, but I can tell you what won't work
for you. You know, the couple of things that I did,
those won't work trust me, and I think that's what
enabled me. I mean, when you guys think about it,
I managed two teams for seventeen years. We never won

(19:21):
a World Series. That's unheard of. So you must be
doing something right. You must be taking care of the brand.
You must be growing relationships, the community, the players, all
of it. There must be something good going on for
people to keep you in charge of organizations that are
worth billions of dollars. If you're just a twice divorce

(19:45):
recovering alcohol, there's gotta be more to you than that.

Speaker 5 (19:49):
Yeah, I think before we get into talking about the
specifics of like managing Korea, we have maybe like a
cheeky question, but is there an easier job than being
a hitting coach in the pre humane colsfield like the
bull Goo's fun?

Speaker 3 (20:03):
Like just hit it in the aird lads? Come on? Uh?

Speaker 4 (20:08):
There were times. Actually Larry Walker told me when I
first took the job, he goes, hey, when we're at home.
You can take the games off at home. You don't
have to show up. We need you on the road
because you know, the rage was the Rockies crushed people
at home. They don't hit anything on the road. You know,
they could take batting practice in the lobby at the
hotel on the road, but you put them at Corus
Field and there's burn fifteen runs a night, whether you

(20:30):
like it or not. The easiest job in baseball at times,
absolutely Russ was being the hitting coach for the Blake
Street Bombers. And if you look back at those five
guys the back of their baseball cards, the numbers. I
can remember looking at Gala Raga at nineteen ninety seven,
his numbers at the All Star Break were better than
my career numbers in ten years. I mean what he

(20:53):
had done at the half. And then you got Burke's,
you got Walker, you got Castillo, you got you got Bschett.
I mean in Galla Raga, it was crazy. And to
work with those guys, yeah, it wasn't hard. There was
harder on the road. But what are the other blessings
I had? Later after managing in Colorado, I got fired.
I went to Texas and to be the hitting coach

(21:15):
that year for the Texas Rangers in twenty ten when
we went to the World Series as well. Josh Hamilton,
Nellie Cruz, Michael Young, Elvis andres Ian Kinsler, you know,
Mitch Moore, Josh Hamilton, it's another it's you know what,
that's a pretty good job. Those are good jobs to.

Speaker 2 (21:33):
Have, great jobs to have.

Speaker 1 (21:35):
And I'm interested that you brought him up, So I
was going to maybe ask you about Josh Hamilton. Here
is someone else who obviously has had publicized issues off
the field with alcohol and other things as well, and
I imagine there's probably no coincidence that that, yeah, you
mentioned twenty ten when you worked with him, was the
best year of his career.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
He had an unbelievable season. What was that relationship like
between you and him?

Speaker 1 (21:54):
Did you feel like you were able to connect with
him in a way just because of the history that
you'd had with some of those off field struggles, some
of those mental struggles, you know, and that kind of
maybe helped him click a little bit more on the
field and compartmentalized in a way.

Speaker 4 (22:07):
I think that's true. I think there's a lot of
truth to that. I think the other thing was was
very It wasn't a coincidence. Ron Washington, who was the
manager of the Rangers at the time, was my third
base coach when I managed in the Mets system the
last two years in Triple A. Ron and I had history.
Ron knew of my history, I knew of his history.

(22:27):
John Daniels was an intern for the Rockies in the
early two thousands working in the video room. John and
I developed a relationship. So when I go there to interview,
it was about baseball. It was about hitting. It was
about being an offensive coordinator more than you know, a
hitting coach, because they had talented offensive people they had

(22:48):
really never gotten over the hub. How do you help
Wash put the lineup together so we can win a
three to two game, We can win a six, six
to five game, or we can win a fourteen to
twelve game. Different ways to beat people. But when Josh
Hamilton's name came up as we were identifying players, John
said truthfully, he said, I really believe that you were

(23:12):
meant to have this job to help Josh. He goes,
I've known because he got to know Josh he goes.
There's a lot of symmetry and what he's experienced, and
I know what you've experienced by my conversations with John
when he was in Colorado. And to this day, you know,
Josh and I still stay in contact. It was one

(23:32):
of the most interesting years I've ever had because we
actually rebuilt his stance and his swing in the middle
of a season, which I've never done with anybody before.
We had gone through a process of events. But to
watch the numbers that kid put up that year to

(23:54):
win the MVP for us to go to the World Series.
And if you look at the numbers he put up
from June first to the end of the secenaon and
they're like those Nintendo numbers the game you play on
a computer. But to see the joy that it brought,
not just to him, but the joy that it brought
to the team, To see the best version of Josh
on the field and in the clubhouse. You know, that's

(24:14):
what life's about. When you can experience things together. You're
going to experience hard times, you're gonna experience good times,
but to be in it together, to be connected together,
that was some of the That was one of the
years I'll always remember, very very very very fun.

Speaker 5 (24:27):
So yeah, so let's go through that. That kind of
like that start of that managing your career. Then when
you you took over the rookies in two thousand and two,
kind of I think reading that you kind of said
when you had an instantaneous bounce back, it was something
that you were kind of just anticipating that was going
to happen anyway we see it. I think quite a
lot in a lot of sports when the new manager
comes in, the regression to the mean happens, and the

(24:50):
guys performed probably the way that they should, and everybody's
just like, oh, do manage manages a genius, But like you,
you were quite experimental. I think in those early days
of kind of like being being with the rookies, the
attempts at like a full man rotation, like when you
get into like the two thousand and seven season, And

(25:11):
I think i'll let Ben talk about Rocktoba specifically. How
did you find those first few years being kind of
like fully in charge of the team.

Speaker 4 (25:21):
Well, it was it was a very surreal because when
I Dan o'dodd called me up one morning said I'm
coming over your house. I got to talk to you,
I thought he was coming over the fire we weren't
in a good spot. Buddy Bell was in a third
year of managing. Buddy Bell's a tremendous baseball man. I
learned a lot from him, and we weren't performing well.
And you know, it's usually the coaches that you know,

(25:44):
may go first, a couple of coaches or the manager.
You know, you can't get rid of twenty five players.
But we were at a point and Dan had made
some comments that just my imagination would run with them. Okay,
we didn't start hitting or I'm out, but I can
remember Dan saying, look, are you going to be home? Yes,
I am. I'm coming to your house. Well, I've never
had a general manager ever tell me he's coming. So

(26:07):
I call up my dad and I said, Dad, this
is crazy. The GM's coming to my house. He goes, well,
what for? I go, he's coming to fire me? And
he goes, well, I know you've been saying it's been hard.
You know, you were kind of talking about if it
doesn't get better, there's no telling what could happen. He
so you think he's gonna fire? Why else would he
be coming to my house. I said, he's gonna save me, though.
The Walk of shame, which I've had as a player

(26:27):
a couple of times. Is you know, when you're told
you're not good enough now and you got to go
back to your locker, pack a bag and then walk
out of the clubhouse with your bag in your hand.
You know, that's quite humble, but it happens and it's
real and it's a great learning lesson. So I said, well,
I don't have to do that. He'll get rid of
me at home. I'll go get my bag later when
nobody's there. You know, it'll all work out. Well. He
walks me through the process and then at the end

(26:49):
he's kind of going, hey, yeah, and I just let
Buddy Bell go this morning. I I'm just wondering what's
coming next because and my my reason of being here
is I'm asking you to be the or a manager
and start running the club starting tonight. Wow. And I
was like, excuse me quite and he goes, no, I
want you to start running the club. Then I want

(27:10):
you to be the inner manager. And he goes, why
does that surprise you? I go, in all transparency, yes,
I thought you were coming apart, and he you know,
we laughed, but it just goes to show you facts
aren't feelings right, and your feelings sometimes can take you
a direction you really don't need to go. So to
go to your point, Russ, one of the things I

(27:31):
wanted to make sure I did with the club coming in.
We were gonna experiment. This wasn't rocket science. We weren't
here in cancer. We're playing baseball and we're not playing
good baseball. What do we need to do? Just like
good solid baseball and see where that takes us? So
we were going to get creative. And it was you know,
if it doesn't work, it doesn't work, We'll try something else.
But it was just having the ability to not think

(27:51):
everything is life or death, and everything is either wrong
or right, and everything is either good or bad. You know.
Sometimes you know, you get experiment and some as you
work your way into things, and it shows trust, and
it shows cohesion, and it shows a need to depend
upon somebody else. So I thought those were important things
to bring to the table based on what I learned.
And you know, eventually I think that the players they

(28:13):
bought into it. Some degreaders, no doubt, But like you said,
I mean, I've also been the manager that got fired
in OH nine and Jim Tracy ended up taking the
team of the playoffs. So I've been on both both
ends of that spectrum. Because nobody shows up as a
Major league manager GM and says, you know what, let
me see what I can do to screw things up today.

(28:35):
Let me see what I can do to just catapult
our team into last place and go on a losing sting.
Nobody does that, even though that's what happens sometimes.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
I have a lot of questions on the Rockies, but
I'm going to try and keep them succinct. But I
think we should definitely talk about two thousand and seven.
The Rockies went into that year kind of looking for
fist inspiration to get back to the playoffs, and for
a while it was questionable whether they would get there,
of course, and then in September and October, I don't
know how else to describe it than you know, all
hell broke loose in a way, the run to almost

(29:08):
steal the division and get into the playoffs, and then
the extraordinary October run. I think the team went twenty
one and one after September the fifteenth up until the
World Series, of course, which is just an extraordinary run.
At that time of the season, I'm fascinated in at
that moment in time in particular, what was the atmosphere like,
And I mean both at course field during games, but

(29:30):
also just in the locker room. Did you go out
there at some points in that street just feeling like
we're just not going to lose today because we didn't
lose yesterday or the day before, and something is just clicking.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
What was it like to be part of a streak
like that.

Speaker 4 (29:42):
Well, I think it was a slow burn in a
good way because all year long we never got hot.
We were three games under, three games over. We were
never in it, but we were never out of it.
And I just kept sharing with the men, guys, we
haven't got hot yet. You know, we've grown together in
We had a bunch of young players kind of bond

(30:02):
together that had won in the minor leagues together, so
they were probably a closer group than any other group
we had. In two, three, four, or five, six, they
were coming together, both pitching, defense, hitting, all of it.
You'd see signs of it, but you didn't see the
depth that some of the better clubs had. And then

(30:23):
seven they started playing just with a little more swagger.
And one of the reasons why I really believe was
Tulowitzki brought an edge to our team that we didn't
have before. That if you had a little edge, Tulowitzki
helped you have more of an edge. If you had
an edge, you had a bigger edge. If you didn't
have an edge, you found an edge or he was

(30:43):
going to help you find it. It was one of
the few times I saw a rookie come up and
impact a clubhouse. And it wasn't just cocky. It was
a swagger. One of the times I can remember him talking,
It was guys, I've never lost like this before, and
I'm not about I'm not about to start doing it now.
You know, we need to figure some things out. This

(31:05):
was a rookie talking to a room full of guys
that already had major league time, but he led by
example as well. It wasn't just talk. So there was
a belief that was probably never there before that we
can we can, we can play, and we can play
better than we've played. Well, you go in the middle
of September and I think it's still at the time
where how many games to play? We were half a
dozen games out and then like you said, we win,

(31:27):
we win, We went, we went a different way, we
went another different way. It's another person, it's the other person.
It's a pitcher, it's a hitter. And about a week
into it, guys were showing up earlier, guys were staying later.
The crowd people were, you know people. The park was
half full at VP, which the park had never been
half full at BP. And the streets are getting crowded

(31:47):
like they've never been crowded before. I mean they've been crowded.
But it was like Opening Day every day for about
three weeks as we went through that stretch, and the
enthusiasm in the ball aallpark was contagious, but the enthusiasm
in the dugout, guys pulling for one another, different men.
We had a lockdown bullpen. We had good enough starting

(32:09):
pitching that we could use the bullpen when we wanted to,
not when we had to. We fed off that the
position players knew there was games we could win two
to one, but we could win ten to nine. And
when you got players like Hop and Holiday on the
corners in the outfield, you got a guy that can
go get the ball to Varis and Sell, you got
a go go guy at second and Matt Suey, you
got a young stud at short, you got Garrett Atkins

(32:31):
and Todd Helton on the corners that both drove in
one hundred runs, and you got this catcher back there
that ended up catching every one of those games. You
are vit Toriabla. It was a closed, tight knit group
of men that truly wanted to have the others to
be successful. One of the beautiful parts of all that
was when when Tavaris went down Ryan Spielberg's and Corey
Sullivan platoon in center field and did a fantastic job.

(32:55):
So it brought some more people into the package as well.
But truthfully, that twenty five men in the club out
of the in September, you can extend the can extend the roster.
We had a we had a roster full of man.
I think the team that went to the World Series
had twenty one homegrown players drafted by the Rockies through
our violin system, which is unheard of in today's game.
But it was one of the most remarkable times that

(33:16):
I've ever been in uniform to watch because what you
felt like, guys, was like you watch your kids play
in the backyard, and you know, they just keep doing
things that you just keep going, Oh my god, you
just keep clapping, just keep clapping, high five and and
trying to stay out of the way.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
Man, I've got goosebumps listening to you talk about it.
I can only imagine what it was like to experience
it all. I've got one last Rockies question, and I'll
hand over to us to stare us away from that
a little bit. I think it's it's a bit of
a two parts to build I think has puzzled people
for so long, right in terms of how do you
create a pitching staff that can be successful there? How
do you help your hitters be successful at home and

(33:56):
on the road. I think there's so many unique issues
it poses to to the Rockies being their bullpark, being
at altitude. But it seems like from the outside anyway,
and I'm happy for you to correct me that they've
never quite managed to crack the code, if there even
is one, Right, I'm fascinated in how you look at
it now in terms of what the way is to
approach it or how you.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
Have to do things differently, just knowing that.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
That is such a unique factor that other teams don't
have to and off the back of that I guess,
you know, give me some cause for optimism about this
team going into not just twenty twenty five, but I
guess seasons to come, and maybe the direction of the
franchise and the way it's going that's that's going to
have the arrow pointing out.

Speaker 4 (34:36):
Well, I would agree with you on we haven't cracked
the code. We've had four playoff teams I think ninety five,
two thousand and seven, well, two thousand and nine and
then seventeen and eighteen. We've never won the division thirty
five years.

Speaker 3 (34:55):
I mean, it's it's a tough division.

Speaker 4 (34:58):
It is a very unique atmosphere because there's nothing else
like it in the major leagues anywhere. It is different
challenge at home versus on the road. There's different scientific
things that will pey. It's different pitching, you know, the
pitch shaping. Obviously, balls go farther and we tried different things.
Early on, it was a ground ball mentality off the
mounts ranking balls hit the ball of the ground, you

(35:19):
put it in the air, it's and to ride out
of the ballpark. Then the humidor came into play. We
played on't know how many years there without realizing that
the balls were shrinking and getting harder and going farther
because we were just putting them in a closet at
and eighty feet above su le. So the humidor kind
of slowed things down and made it a bit more normal.

(35:42):
I do think in Colorado in two thousand and seven,
I think we stumbled into the code. It's not like
we said, Okay, we're going to do this because of that.
But we had power on the corners, we had strength
of defense up the middle. We had five pitchers that
pretty much all had different skill sets. It wasn't a
one size bit tall. And then I was bullpen. We
had arms slots almost from nine o'clock on your clock

(36:04):
to three o'clock around the board, both right hand and
left hand the lineup. We could beat you different wings.
We could beat you with power, we could beat you
with speed. One of the things that many people realize
is the defense we played that year. We set a
field it's a major league record still today for the
fielding percentage set in the National League. And it wasn't
a bunch of gold gliverers. I mean, yes, you had

(36:26):
too low and yes you know you had help, and
both of them ended up winning go but hid Garrett
Atkins at third. You had Kasmntsu at second, get holiday
Hop in the outfield. Tavares was a go get in center,
but we played airtight defense. We had a lockdown bullpen,
and again our starters gave us what we needed. And
I think sometimes different people get in different roles and

(36:47):
situations and they try and recreate things. I just know this.
If you took the team that won the World Series
every year and put them in Coors Field the next year,
they would win a lot of ball games because they
played good baseball. And by recreating something or think you've
got something on your hands that there's fear or there's anxiety,
I think you worse than it. I still think we're

(37:08):
structuring to play good, solid, defensive, fundamental baseball. I do
think you have to have variety on your pitching staff
with armslaughts, and velocities and spin. But I also think
you need to meet the pitchers where they are because
you know what you can still get away with hand
high fastballs or hiring career. Still a curveball still breaks.
We ran away from some things based on what we

(37:30):
thought were realities, and basically it's never been more disappointing
the offensive value we've put on the field the last
two years, for the venue and the environment which we
get in which is mind bogging, And we're cutting some
teeth with some younger players, but it wasn't all the
younger players that are doing a lot of the punching out.

(37:50):
So we have tried to as far as just recalibrate.
We started with a draft three years ago. We were
short on pitching, so as a big influx back to
back years to draft, collecting arms, moving some people around
the All Star break, moving people over the winter, getting
winning some of the heavier contracts to bring in better
contracts because we still have some the money. That's hard

(38:11):
on the table with some people. But recreating a better
pitching depth, a better pitching supply, creating more versatile and
athletic ball players. Speed still needs to play at that level.
We weren't stolen bases, weren't even a thing until you know,
we got Doyle and Tobor and a few other guys.
Now that's been recreated. So I do think through the

(38:34):
draft we're finding our way back as we're going to
be pushing good baseball players and good pitchers up to
the Major League level. We still play in a very
challenging division. You know, there's no doubt about that. But
and I hate to use the word but truthfully, and
I tell this to people, I would not be with
the Rockies if I didn't believe in what we were doing.

(38:56):
I'm sixty seven, and I don't mean that I'm on
my debt, but I have better to do with my
time if I'm not gonna just go up and just oh,
I'm a Rocky, I got a job. I believe we're
making a difference. I believe in the direction we're headed in.
The fan base deserves it. My goodness, we still draw
two and a half almost two and a half million
people a year. We've lost one hundred games the back
to back seasons, and these fans are still coming out.

(39:19):
It's time we fed the fans. If the fans look,
you're across the pond. I love that term. But you're
a fan. You're wearing a Rockies jersey. I'm not sure
what emblem was on top of.

Speaker 3 (39:29):
Russell's hat, Hills perhaps, but I.

Speaker 4 (39:34):
Mean, we've got bands still global. You know that that
are around. I just know the joy I saw there
in two thousand and seven, we went to the World Series,
and I just would love to be a small part
of that. Again. That's what I'm hoping, that's what I'm
pushing for.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
I'm having for that tea. I love the honset, thank you.

Speaker 3 (39:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (39:51):
So obviously as we figures of the way through your Korea,
then the seasons after two two thousand and seven didn't
procress the way you want it.

Speaker 3 (39:58):
You will let go.

Speaker 5 (39:59):
In two thousand and nine, you had a small stint
with MLB Network. It's kind of like doing some kind
of like analyst that broadcasting. Did you have the itch
that you knew that you wanted to get back into
to managing pretty soon after you you will let go
and you were just waiting for that moment to happen.
Or was it a special conversation that you had with
with the pirates that kind of brought you back into it.

Speaker 4 (40:24):
I don't think that I ever thought that, hey, there's
no problem, I'll just do this MLB thing because I
got fired this year. Next year I'll be managing a team.
Never gave that a thought. Matter of fact, the following year,
in twenty ten, it was pushing up to the winner
and I didn't have a coach. I had a couple offers,
but they didn't make sense for me. I was going

(40:46):
to go back to MLB and sign a you know,
like a two or three year deal as an analyst.
And then John Daniels, the guys over there, gave me
a call about getting back into the game. And it
wasn't a manager's job, but when they to me who
it was, for the reasoning behind it. I've always been
attracted to working for good people for the right reasons,
and we have a common goal, and that's what we

(41:08):
had in Texas. Now, after that year in Texas, I
still wasn't thinking, Okay, I'm just gonna do one year
in Texas and pop back in a dugout somewhere. It
was a very good job, Russ. I could have been
the hitting coach there. John was trying to keep me
as a hitting coach there. I mean for real. And
then there was a couple teams. I interviewed for two

(41:28):
teams that winter and got deep in both interviews. One
was with the Mets and one was with the Pirates.
And then I knew it at least became real because
I kept getting interviews and I kept going and the
Mets said, oh, we're three weeks away. The Pirates were like, hey,
we want you to manage tomorrow. And I had to
give that some time and some thought until the Pirates,
I can't decide by tomorrow. Can you give me a

(41:49):
little bigger window? They said yes. I went back talk
to the Mets because truthfully, everybody in my inner circle
was pushing for me to go manage in New York.
I was the only person that thought the Pirates job
was a good idea because on the surface, eighteen consecutive

(42:09):
losing seasons, you know, they'd lost, they had lost a
hundred games and back to back seasons. But I just
kept being lad, you know I have I have a
big I have a faith that's real. And I was
being loud. I said, I don't know what it is,
but I really believe that I meant to manage in Pittsburgh.
I was attracted to the Pirates as a kid. You know,

(42:29):
they had they had the most god awful uniforms you
could ever have, and they just beat everybody. It was
just the family, the Yellow, the Black. When you do
into Pittsburgh as a former player, you either loved Pittsburgh
or you hate it. There was no one between. I
always appreciate it, the hard working mentality, and I thought,
what a better place to have another shot? Blue collar
people a handshakes reel, they work hard for their money.

(42:52):
They've proven to be a great fan base. They do
it in hockey, they do it in football, they used
to do it in baseball. I was just led to
come to get back in that spot. And you know,
I fortunately land in a job and was there nine years,
and we had a really significant three year run there,
which validated all my reasons for why I wanted to
be there. Now, I feel very blessed to have had

(43:13):
that opportunity. I think anybody in life, when you get
a second opportunity, you have a shot to be better.
You've learned things on the first one that there were
things I did in Pittsburgh I never thought of doing
in Colorado. And there's some things I thought you had
to do in color I didn't even think about doing
in Pittsburgh. You learn as you go, and I was
fortunate that I was given another opportunity.

Speaker 5 (43:34):
And from that time, like in between you, I don't
know if this is right or wrong for what I've
read from bios or not, but This gave the idea
that like this is where you picked up an idea
about like save of metrics, about like what additional things
could be done that you may picked up some of
your time in Texas, some of the time actually at
MLB Network, But those that Rockies team, sort of the

(43:56):
Rockies team, that Pirates team that you then took on board,
was one of the really earlier helped his full things
like shifting and that side of things. So how did
how did you inculporate that sort of thing like into
your management that second time round?

Speaker 4 (44:09):
I had to tuck the grumpy old man in my
back pocket and tell him to leave the building. And
I want to applaud you guys. You know I did
a little work. I talked to Josh or you talked
to about this podcast. He said, these guys are interesting,
they're invested, they're all in. You guys have done your
homework and in your research. This makes this very enjoyable

(44:30):
for me. But when I went into Pittsburgh, we were
probably as invested in analytics as any team in baseball.
Probably Tampa and Pittsburgh. We were doing things at the
minor league level that no other teams were doing. The
two of us. Over the course of the next five years,
everybody in baseball got involved, but early on it was
us in Tampa, and I can remember the first year

(44:51):
them bringing things to my table and I was like, well,
wait a minute, what do you mean the third hitter
on your team is not the most important hitter. I
can remember this conversation like was yesterday, and it was like, okay, well,
this was a year after I'd managed to go, well,
Andrew McCutcheon, you hit him third all year And I said, well, yeah,
that's because the baddest dude on your team hits third,

(45:12):
I mean Larry Walker. And they go, well, I know
that's the thought, but Andrew McCutcheon actually went to the
plate one hundred or two hundred and twelve times with
two outs and nobody on and he's your best hitter.
And I'm like what, And I said, okay, you got
my attention, bring me more. So we started slowly, taking

(45:34):
small bites, slowly, then really sitting an older guy, an
old school at baseball guy, and just sharing with him
how meaningful some analytics can be, not all of them,
because not all new information is good. You know, that
doesn't make it good because it's new, but when you
can put value to it. And then what we were
able to do in Pittsburgh was to make a hybrid

(45:55):
situation human analytics, the eyeball test that got test, the
nuts test, and take the numerical, you know, the analytic
part of it, leveraging your bullpen, leveraging your line up
certain matchups against certain guys, and combined the two, which
what what made it meaningful and what pulled everybody together.
And to this day I have a saying now I

(46:18):
actually use in the book and said, it's not about
old school versus news school, It's about being in school.
And in Pittsburgh, I was able to find my way
back in thistry.

Speaker 5 (46:28):
No that that that's amazing to hear, because we've recently
spoken to people like Kyle Body and and and Zach Scott,
and they always talked about the fact that like the
culture is actually kind of like the keyst part of
like for for making those decisions. So I kind of
tip my cat to you as as as someone who's
come in and had their had their time and the

(46:49):
place to kind of to give those individuals like the
chance to to show you what's what and to kind
of you to take it on board. It's it's it's
always a difficult thing to change your own color.

Speaker 4 (47:00):
To well change. You know, change can bring upon controversy.
But again, there's a man myth out there. I dug
myself into this sole I'll get myself out. So you're
gonna trust the guy that dug the hole to get
you out at Nobody bats a thousand. Nobody bats a
thousand and their decisions. And I took it upon myself

(47:22):
and say, you know what, they put some really smart
people in this room. I need to trust and lean
into them, and let's see how smart we can be together.
And truthfully, you know, when you win a manager of
the Year award like I was awarded in twenty thirteen,
it wasn't because I was the best manager of the year.
I don't think it was because I had really good players.

(47:44):
There's no manager's team that finished in fourth place that
ever won a manager of the Year award. And some
of the moves we made that year, whether it was Neil,
whether it was Dan Fox, whether it was bringing kids
up from the farm system, it was such a collective effort.
And that was like it was in Colorado. But that's
when you see success happen is when egos are pushed aside.
Everybody's pulling together and we really want to celebrate each

(48:07):
other's success. It's not just our own.

Speaker 3 (48:11):
No, that's amazing.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (48:13):
I do want to ask you very quickly about twenty thirteen.
It's taken up so much of your time already, so
I do apologize, and we'll we'll wrap soom that twenty
thirteen season. You mentioned obviously how fun it was to
bring winning back to course Field with the Rockies in
two thousand and seven, and you did something very similar
with the Pirates.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
In twenty thirteen.

Speaker 1 (48:28):
Obviously twenty straight losing seasons and then that amazing season
in twenty thirteen. And I want to talk about that
Wildcard game specifically. And I'm not a fan of the Pirates,
of course, but I vividly remember watching that there in
PNC Park and the home run by Russell Martin and
just the chaos that ensued that one game. And I know,
ultimately you know that the team didn't go to the

(48:49):
World Series, But what did it feel like to bring
that feeling back to a city that hadn't had it
in such a long time.

Speaker 4 (48:57):
Well, it's been one of the most rewarding things I've
ever been involved in, and for a lot of different reasons.
One of the first things I did when I was
in Pittsburgh is I went up to the people that
sell the season tickets and I said, look, I have
no idea how hard it's been. I'm just telling you,
I'm gonna do everything I can to help make your
job easier if we move forward together. Because when you

(49:18):
win more games, it's easier to sell tickets. When you
don't win games, it's hard to sell tickets, and they're
the ones on the phone on the other end getting
yelled at, getting bitched at getting you know whatever, it
is to see the joy that that season brought downtown vendors, hotels, restaurants,
every employee in the organization, especially the people selling the

(49:41):
season tickets and the corporate sponsorships. To see that North
Shore area just revitalized, and to know that game. I
don't think I felt the full impact of that game
until later on in the winter. But there were there
were kids at that game that, you know, we're twenty
five years old and had never you know that they

(50:02):
didn't remember when they were five, but had never seen
a winning season and a grandfather went with a father
who brought his son, so he had three generations of people,
whether it be female, grandmother's, you know, mother's kids at
that game. Now, the beauty of it is because we
hold thirty nine thousand people today. If I go back

(50:23):
to Pittsburgh and would walk around town, seventy five thousand
people were at that game that night. Because everybody will
tell you that wild Card game in twenty thirteen, that
was the most amazing game. And it reminded me of
when I first went to Pittsburgh and people were telling
me about Masarowski shot against the Yankees, the walk off
home were in Game seven in nineteen sixty. I heard
so many people tell me about that, so I looked

(50:44):
up Forbes Field thirty eight thousand people and one hundred
thousand people told me they were at the game. But
I mean, that's what joy it brings, because you know
what people were at the game. They might not have
been in the stadium, but they were watching who knows
wherever they were a part of it. They were invested.
I've been on a run the last couple of years
with a football team in America, the Detroit Lions. I've

(51:06):
been a Detroit Lion fan for sixty two years. Wow,
that's it's been hard. But now the joy in the
last couple of years. So it's just a joy. And
there's a term for it, guys. You may have heard
me talk about it. It's a Buddhist term. It's called
moudita mud ita. What it means is showing expressive joy

(51:27):
for the success of others. And that's what it comes
down to. To look at those stands. I can remember
looking in the stands during that run in Colorado, looking
in the stands in Pittsburgh, and that you know, obviously
through the thirteen seasons, but then in fourteen and fift
we won ninety eight games. In twenty fifteen, but the
stadiums packed every night, and to see people showing up

(51:47):
and just the family atmosphere, the joy. The game of
baseball's magic anyway, but when you add the hometown team
does good and they've got their favorite players and all that,
it's just been one of the things that's made my
motor run my time like I still does. You can
tell how excited I am talking about it now. So
it was significant in a lot of different ways.

Speaker 2 (52:08):
That's just the beauty of sport, isn't it.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
I think it's just that being able to evote those
feelings in someone that's extraordinary to hear.

Speaker 2 (52:14):
I'll ask my last question.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
I'll let us get one into But having managed the
Rockies and the Pirates, I think there are similarities between
those two teams, and I'm fascinated in sort of the
way you look back at your experience of managing those
two teams and maybe the legacy you have with those
fan bases. I know you didn't end up winning a
World Series with those teams, and sometimes you know that's
all the matters, right is did you win a ring?

Speaker 2 (52:35):
On arts and people? That's all they care about.

Speaker 1 (52:37):
But I think for those two fan bases, and I'll
certainly speak as a Rockies fan, you know, the era
we had when you were there was was so special
beyond you know the meaning of those titles or whatever
it might be, but that feeling that you're invoked in people,
I think, and those teams of voting people was so special.
I'm fascinated in how you look back at that and
how fans approach you even today, just looking back at

(52:58):
that as a time that teams that teams that have
been struggling for success, and I.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
We're desperate for something.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
We're able to write around their teams in ways that
they hadn't really been able to for so long, and
even since then, maybe haven't quite a minute.

Speaker 2 (53:09):
Nice to get back to those highs again.

Speaker 4 (53:13):
Well, I think when you're in the moment, you always
kind of think you have an understanding of what's going on.
And I did. I thought I had an understanding of
what was going on when you get fired and are
asked to leave and your swipe card no longer works
in either one of those buildings and now you remove
And I truthfully, it was during COVID that it all

(53:34):
hit me like a wave on a beach, because they
started replaying the games in Colorado an MLB networ they
started replaying the games in Pittsburgh. People started reaching out,
podcast interviews, whatever, and it was almost like like it
was a recreation of the fan base started saying hey,

(53:56):
we remember you, Hey remember when or whatever. And to
this day now, and some of it's probably got to
do with the book, but there's been an appreciation that
I probably never realized that they're thankful, and they're thankful
for the same reasons why I was thankful. It was

(54:16):
an honor to be the manager of the Rockies, it
was an honor to be the manager of the Pirates.
And I took my job seriously. I didn't take myself seriously.
I didn't bat a thousand with the decisions I made,
but I gave it everything I had. And I think
the acknowledgement of the fan base is now that they're
appreciative of that. They've seen a lot of things since
then in both places, and they're reaching out now just

(54:38):
thanking me for my service, thanking me for my efforts
the community, whatever it was involved in. That makes it
very special, and it makes it like a big, warm hug.
And to this day, you know, if I go back
and say October boom the conversation to start, and I
was here, I remember this, And if I go back
to Pittsburgh and all I going to just say, raise

(54:59):
the job, Roger, and they're, oh, my gosh, thirteen fourteen,
fifteen and the things that happened there. So it's pretty
significant in the fact that there was no World Series Championship,
as you said, because that is what a lot of
people hold on to. But what I've found out is
what people really hold on to or the relationships you
build with them and the time that you're with them

(55:20):
and the way you go about your work and represent
their team. And that's what I feel good about that.
I always honored the name on the front of the
jersey and I try to take care of the name
on the back because that was my family. And I
think the fans have been appreciated that in agreement.

Speaker 3 (55:37):
No, that's that's amazing to hear.

Speaker 5 (55:39):
And I kind of feel that My last question now,
which is completely utally random, is gonna is gonna full
flat slightly afterwards, but I kind of wanted to know
if do you know that you have managed in the
last tide game in Mighty League Baseball.

Speaker 4 (55:52):
I didn't know that, but I do know because every
once in a while somebody will ask me to do
They'll they'll do a bio on me for something, and
they'll put my record down. They'll put wins lost, and
then they'll put a one like after and I'm like,
what what's the one? I go, Oh, my god, we
had a tied game and I'm trying to think of
it was Miami.

Speaker 5 (56:09):
Now I might against the Cubs, I think in twenty
sex Okay, in twenty sixteen, it was like a September
twenty ninth game that just go rained out and there
was no need to play it for the once the
season ended.

Speaker 3 (56:22):
So, but that is the last Tide game.

Speaker 5 (56:25):
Obviously one could happen in the future in MLB, but
as it stands right now, we have not had a
tight game since then.

Speaker 4 (56:31):
And I'm gonna hang my hat on that rust and
I'm going to give you one other meaningless stat that
I can hold. It's still true today. If I asked you,
and this is a loaded question now, but who hit
the last home run at Metropolitan Stadium in Minnesota, Your
guest would not have been me. But I hit a
home I hit the last home run in Metropolitan Stadium

(56:54):
before they took They tore it down and built the
Metro Dome. Now, the funny thing was the third basement
was a good friend of mine, Pete mccannon, who later
managed in the big leagues with the Phillies. Pete hit
a home run like in this bottom of the seventh,
and he was running the basis like he just hit
a walk off thinking because we all knew it was
the last game, there's going to be a last of everything.

(57:14):
He ran the bases and he's waving his arms and
the people coming out and they're high five of him.
And the top of the eighth, I hit a home run.
As I'm running around the bases, he meets me at
shortstop in my ear, yelling at me while I'm running
around third and actually hits me with his glove as
that I'm round third base coming to home and not
many people know that that I hit the last home

(57:35):
run at Metropolitan and I've got the last tie game
as a manager. Those are the kind of things that
stile legends are built up.

Speaker 5 (57:42):
Right there, probably one of the only home runs, and
you're getting booed by one of your own players hitting.

Speaker 2 (57:50):
That is amazing. Wells Clinton, Yeah, thank you, saying.

Speaker 4 (57:56):
I'm glad we pulled it off. I had no idea
what to expect, and you guys, you guys are good fans,
You're good people.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
I really enjoyed myself. Thank you for the opportunity. No,
we've had such a blast chatting with you. I could
literally sit here and ask questions for hours, but I won't.
I will say thanks so much for joining us, and
I will encourage people to buy your new book of
course and check that out, but also to follow you
on social media or you're very active on social an
amazing message of positivity and joy, so people should should

(58:23):
check that out and obviously check out the work you're
doing with Rockies as well this season.

Speaker 2 (58:26):
Best of luck with that, and I hope you get
a chance to catch up scene.

Speaker 1 (58:29):
But thanks again, Clint, we really appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (58:32):
Neither one of you guys ever get over to Todates.
Let me know we'll find a way to connect.

Speaker 1 (58:37):
Really kind, Thanks so much, Clinton, and thanks everyone for listening. Goodbye,