May 1, 2023 • 52 mins
In this podcast episode, we explore the importance of cultivating a healthy workplace culture for employees and businesses alike. The episode begins by defining what a healthy culture is, and why it matters. We delve into the benefits of fostering a positive work environment, including increased employee engagement, productivity, and retention rates.
Our guest expert, Erin Shelby, PHR of Shelby HR Solutions, shares her insights on creating and maintaining a healthy workplace culture, including tips on effective communication, conflict resolution, and employee recognition. She will also discuss the role of leadership in shaping culture and the importance of modeling the desired behaviors.
The episode concludes by addressing the common challenges in creating a healthy workplace culture, such as resistance to change and cultural differences, and offers practical solutions for overcoming them. Overall, this episode provides valuable insights and actionable tips for businesses and leaders looking to create a positive and healthy workplace culture that benefits everyone involved.
Our guest expert, Erin Shelby, PHR of Shelby HR Solutions, shares her insights on creating and maintaining a healthy workplace culture, including tips on effective communication, conflict resolution, and employee recognition. She will also discuss the role of leadership in shaping culture and the importance of modeling the desired behaviors.
The episode concludes by addressing the common challenges in creating a healthy workplace culture, such as resistance to change and cultural differences, and offers practical solutions for overcoming them. Overall, this episode provides valuable insights and actionable tips for businesses and leaders looking to create a positive and healthy workplace culture that benefits everyone involved.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Brett that we're at the half hour, and I just want to say good
morning to everybody. Happy Thursday herein northern California. We're turning in the
corner. We're in the spring andallergies and all that good stuff. My
name is Jeff Turner. I amthe managing partner for PWA Insurance Services and
(00:25):
alerta Group company. We provide localservice in the employee benefits arena with National
Resources Group. Is actually the eleventhlargest employee benefits from in the nation in
less than five years, so we'resuper excited about that. I am the
(00:46):
host of today's Benefit in Brief,Benefits and Brief podcast, and We've got
an incredible guest today and I'm soexcited to welcome Aaron Shelby. Now,
Aaron, I know you got soAaron Burg Shelby, right, Yeah,
(01:07):
get that that middle name as well. I guess Burg is what is that?
You're that's my maiden name, Gidenname, Okay, Shelby phr.
So, Aaron, I hope Idon't mind. I hope you don't mind.
I want to embarrass you a littlebit. Um. You have quite
a track record. I was lookingover your history and going way back I
(01:32):
mean, you're you've worked for somepretty large employers before you went out on
your own in this space. Correct, That's correct. Yeah, so maybe
kind of just summarize your your pathto where you're at right now for people,
certainly so. I am Aaron Shelby, owner of a firm called Shelby
HR Solutions, and I specialized inhelping develop workplace culture UM. I also
(01:57):
helped train HR leaders to do reallywell and their jobs get inspired. And
I am also an HR expert witnessfor a trial testimony for wrongful termination and
things like that. So I getcalled by attorneys to represent both planets and
defendants and I really love what Ido. I've had a very interesting career.
(02:19):
I've started my HR journey and alittle little town in Ireland. I
worked as a as an American overseasfor a little bit for an Irish very
small company, came back to theStates and from there I've worked for a
number of companies including Setter Health,the US District Court, Eastern District of
California, California State Assembly. I'vealso worked in manufacturing and also for architects
(02:46):
and engineers, and then I startedmy firm just under two years ago and
it's just gone crazy and I'm havinga ball. Yeah, you have quite
a diverse background working in the publicand of its sector that I'm sure that
brings a unique you know, UMtalent base, I guess or experience to
(03:07):
the table to help help your clients. Yeah. I found that what is
interesting with my background, and I'mthe I was always the one that would
leave a company when I got bored. So, you know, three or
four years I learned and changed enoughand I wanted to try something new,
so that you know that that's whatI've done. But I think what makes
(03:27):
me unique is that I do havethe federal experience. I've got the state
experience with was with the legislature fora just under thirteen years, and UM
I also have in my consulting practicework with nonprofits and also local government,
city government. So it's been areally wonderful experience because of how varied and
interesting they all are. Yeah,So the topic we're going to UM we
(03:50):
were just kind of chatting before wewent live UM workplace culture, and I
want to I'm trying to think back. I've been doing what I've been doing
for so long, and I'm goingto kind of date myself now, but
I don't really even remember hearing muchabout workplace culture in the eighties and nineties,
(04:14):
or maybe not even the maybe alittle bit in the early two thousands,
but I don't remember a lot aboutit being you know, front and
center in the eighties and nineties.Maybe kind of speak to that for a
second, kind of where we're athow that? Yes, so, Jake,
I agree with you. HR ishaving a moment, and finally it's
come to this. Back when Istarted my career, I've been doing this
(04:36):
for thirty two years. It's beenquite a wide a journey. But in
the beginning when I started, HRwas benefit forms of potlucks. That's really
all you really needed to do,and so and now it's evolved into strategy
and culture and retention and mental healthissues and compliance and legal risk and PAGA
(04:57):
claims and waging our laws, allof the all the above, and so
it has become so incredibly complicated forcompanies to do it well, and especially
with the post pandemic era that we'rein, it's you know, the residual
effects of culture are being felt withreturning back to office and trying to help
(05:19):
with a lot of people that arein distress. So there's never been a
time in history, in my opinion, especially in California, because how hard
it is to work here for employersto be in the space of HR.
Yeah, so there's kind of theI guess, the perfect storm right where
(05:40):
we're at right now in terms ofwhat's on the plate for HR. You
just mentioned several items, and Igot to imagine that that's just got to
be kind of a little overwhelming forthem. It is, and quite frankly,
even myself, I'll get in awhen I'm helping a client, I'll
get asked something out of left field, like labor negotiations. Right now,
(06:00):
I'm helping a client and you know, very complicated transactions and wage and our
laws and how they impact liability,insurance coverage and all that. And so
it's an area that I think thatmost companies do not understand the peril of
doing it poorly. And so inmy work in training HR professionals, I
(06:23):
do a lot of basic compliance andtechnical skills training so that they know the
laws inside it out, because it'skind of frightening when they are making employment
decisions and termination decisions, etc.Or failure to accommodate or not handing a
retaliation claim properly, and it putsthe company at risk. Yeah. Yeah,
(06:45):
being that we're interacting with business,you know, the C suite on
a regular bastions as well, Isee it. And it's certainly something that
I'm not an expert in, right. I look to you know and Shelby's
of the world to help us.And great to have you on our team.
For sure. We want we wantto be able to to move this
(07:09):
needle, you know, to theright to the positive. So last month,
Aaron was great enough to speak withour keynote speaker for the Sacramento Executive's
Network, which is a professional networkinggroup here in Sacramento, and this was
her topic. She talked about workworkplace culture and in your presentation, ar'na,
(07:33):
I'm gonna grab some of the contentthat's in there. I've made some
notes from it. I reviewed ityesterday. In there, you asked the
audience what makes a great culture?Before we get to that part, can
you explain what exactly is workplace cultureanyway? I mean, and you put
(07:55):
some content around that I'd be happytoo. And this is what I'm passionate
about is helping companies improve it oneof the best ways that I've held my
last company. Both my LA officeand my Sacramental office were voted best places
to work by the Los Angeles BusinessJournal and Sacramental Business Journal. So it's
something that's very important to me.What I consider workplace culture to be is
(08:18):
the way we do everything, theway we communicate, the way we interact,
the way that we solve problems,the way that we handle disagreements,
and all of the nuances that comeinto making a company special. And so
that's why it's it's very delicate,it's something that can change very quickly,
and so it's something that most companiesshould be pursuing an eyeing ways to make
(08:43):
it better. Yeah. So thatbrings up a thought where does it start.
I think it starts from the top. I think you have to have
leadership and a CEO that really getsit and it's humble and empathetic enough m
so that they are creating from theirown actions an environment where people will be
(09:07):
able to bring issues and trust tothem and bring forth problems. And so
I think that's the foundation. Yeah, No, I appreciate that. And
to drive this point home, I'mgoing to read from an article I quoting
from an article that I read yesterdaythat I actually shared with you on LinkedIn.
(09:28):
Yeah, we're going to get intowhat what are the benefits of employee
engagement, and then we're going totalk about the opposite of that, this
engagement, because I know you canspeak to that, but I'm going to
read this real quick, so Iwant to. I think this is really
interesting, and this for the owners, you know, the CEO, the
(09:48):
CEF, those who are leading inthis initiative. I'm hoping this is what
is going to speak to you.So this is interesting. Um. This
is a survey that was done.It's an article from HR Executives the correlation
between the company's stock performance and whetherits workforce was in the top or bottom
(10:15):
ten percent of highly engaged employees.Those who are in the top ten percent
in many cases outperformed the SMP fivehundred, which is really interesting. And
to drive the point further, eachadditional point of engagement that employees are involved
(10:35):
in was reported of value of fortysix thousand, five hundred dollars in market
cap difference per That's pretty significant.If I'm I'm a CFO, I gotta
I gotta be hearing that right now. So there's there's the cost one way
(10:58):
or the other return on investment.I know that the CFOs like to use
that a lot. So there isthe proof in the putting right there on
that side. I mean, youwant to speak to that for a second,
and maybe we can go into whatis the cost of disengagement. Yes,
let's start with the the the effectsof true engagement and what I consider
(11:24):
to be highly engaged employees is inthe statistics show that and roughly one third
of your employees are highly engaged.That means two thirds are either actively disengaged,
probably one third or maybe you knowquarter of that and the rest are
moderately engaged. And so there aresignificant costs associating with that. And I'm
(11:48):
always amazed when I get contacted bya firm or you know, I had
like a two hundred million dollars firmand they were so, you know,
nervous about spending money on culture.And I'm like, dude, if you're
not going to spend money on culture, you're going to pay for it on
the back end when people leave you, because they really and now more than
effort, that's what in gallup showson disengagement. Disengagement costs relatively about thirty
(12:15):
four percent of an employee's salary isthe true cost for every person who's disengaged.
So if you have one hundred thousanddollars executive who is actively disengaged,
And in my expert witness work,I had a case where we had a
very disgruntled executive who was terminated andI was like, and for you know,
(12:35):
I felt was they were handling itright. But the true cost for
someone in that capacity is even greaterbecause of the way that they influence the
organization and the people that they manage. So it is truly something that I
wish more employers and CEOs and CFOswould give credence to because this is not
just fluff. This is stuff that'sgoing to affect the bottom line. It's
(12:56):
going to make companies more competitive.It's gonna you know, you're gonna have
somebody who's highly engaging, gonna staywork until midnight to get a project done
because they care. That's what it'sabout. Yeah, I'm bringing up one
of your slides. I was tryingto find it the true cost workplace toxicity,
toxic toxicity and incivility I'm just readingfrom one of your slides, so
(13:22):
this is this is actually numbers fromSCHERM one to five. People have left
jobs with bad culture and the costis two hundred and thirty three billion dollars.
Toxicity in and of itself can bea derailment for a firm. It
can actually implode a company entirely.I've seen it, especially with small companies.
(13:46):
I'll give you an example. Therewas a medical provider and I won't
you know, obviously mention any namesor anything, and the you could tell
as soon as you walked in thedoor there was one person who was extremely
rude to everyone and felt entitled,and she was the daughter of the owner
of the firm. And I wasso like shocked at that at the market
(14:09):
difference in the culture when I walkedin to get services, that I changed
providers because I just didn't want tointeract with that person. And that's what
I'm talking about. This you couldhave a mass exodus. And not only
that, is that there are studiesto show that toxicity impacts even your best
employees that they could you know,if you've got somebody that's doing something illegal
and you know, embezzlement or somethinglike that that can actually impact the good
(14:33):
people too. So what I recommendis if you have someone or that you
think is a danger to the workplaceculture, you need to address it quickly
and efficiently, and if it doesn'twork, you know, find ways to
you know, to part ways.And it's that important. And I've just
seen it so many times even inmy own career, where you know,
(14:54):
you've got someone who is negatively impactingand gossiping and all that back channel stuff,
and it just it really derives themaround. Yeah. Yeah, to
your point, I'm reading again fromthat that particular slide to kind of back
up what you just said. Yourbest employees are fifty four percent more likely
to quit when they have a toxiccoworker. Estimates the cost of disengagement is
(15:18):
thirty four percent of their annual salary. Nearly half of the employees decreased their
work effort. Just talked about sixtythree percent lost time from work. So
we're talking about productivity here, right, Yeah, I mean, and that's
that's that's the other hidden effects isthat you've got really good people, but
(15:39):
they don't like, you know,working with John in the office, and
so they're like I don't want todeal with John today. I'm gonna call
in sick, or I'm going toleave early because they just don't want to
or I'm not going to interact withthem at all because he's so rude and
or he just doesn't know what he'sdoing. And so those are the things
that need to take place. Andwhat I see very often is that it
comes. Company will avoid and kickthe can down the road for so long
(16:03):
with an employee that by the timethey get so frustrated they're ready to terminate,
but they haven't done any of theirdue diligence. That you need to
show that it was an appropriate basedon productivity and not other kind of protected
activity. So what do you basedon your experience? Why do you think
(16:26):
that is that? Is that amatter of maybe, like you in the
one case you said, it's afamily member that's working there, maybe there's
some entitlement. I want to givegrace to most professionals, and I certainly
understand that that is the case insome situations. But is it a matter
(16:47):
of maybe just not having the knowledgeand the training and understanding on how to
deal with it. I think that'spart of it. The other part that
I think that that comes to playis the fact that having difficult conversations is
everybody who's cup of tea, mostpeople, myself included. I don't like
doing it either, But if youdon't do it, then you're not addressing
(17:07):
the problem and you're not identifying Ijust work with my client yesterday. They
had a person that hadn't worked afull schedule, a full work schedule in
like six months, and it's like, why did you guys let this happen?
Because persons just coming and going whereverthey chose, and so helping that
client set expectations and if they ifthey did that from the get go,
(17:27):
if you as a manager, supervisor, CEO, set your expectations of what
you expect and not only work stufflike you know, completing deadlines and things
like that, but also how youbehave that you expect them to be kind
to one another, of respectful communicationand all of those things I think should
be clearly laid out because if youdo that in the beginning, you'll avoid
(17:51):
a lot of problems later on.Yeah, so let's kind of move to
that how to improve it, howto maintain in it. I know that
was something that you talked about it, and I'm again I'm going to I'm
going to quote a couple of itemsfrom some of your slides. So,
workplace culture, what is it?We talked a little bit about that,
(18:11):
but let's get into kind of thenitty gritty of it. I'm going to
read this quote and then we cankind of go from there. So,
work culture the values, beliefs andattitudes that guide an organization sets employee expectations
for how should how should behave orhow they should behave and interact with one
another as they perform their daily responsibilitiesand contributing the company companies overall mission.
(18:36):
So that's where I want to gowith this is, you know, most
companies have a mission, they havea you know, they have a vision.
They know they have values, right, so this should be incorporated into
that. So let's talk about that, creating a clear vision around this and
values and how to measure that goingforward. Yeah, And what I've done
(18:59):
with my fur is I've looked athow a lot of other places are doing
it, and I decided to takea more comprehensive approach because I think it's
not just doing a potlock on Fridayor you know, kombuchon t app or
ping pong tables and all that.You have to start out with the foundation
of trust and civility and psychological safety. And that's a real biggie where if
(19:23):
you have an environment where people aretoo afraid to speak up and they're afraid
of retaliation or somebody's going to Iroll other contemptuous behavior, you're not going
to have a place where people canactively talk about the issues that take place.
So the approach that I've taken thatI take with my clients is a
learned plan execute where we learn byconducting an engagement survey, conducting focus groups,
(19:48):
reviewing the data, and with theexecutive staff looking for areas of toxicity.
And again we're not trying to firepeople. We want to get people
elevated to a point where they acontributing successfully to the organization. And then
creating an action list, and thenplanning a communication plan looking at the honest
assessment of what the issues are andaddressing that low performing staff, fine tuning
(20:15):
your onboarding and recognition plans. Youshould do an epic welcome. I read
an article on Fortune magazine just thisweek how important that is that if you
have a really robust way for peopleto feel incorporated into the culture. Quickly
you will have a better retention.And then finally the execution stage, which
is developing a strategy, a culturestrategy that is unique for the company,
(20:38):
communicating with your employees. A lotof them are kind of suspicious when you
unroll as new fancy plan, youknow, but you really have to be
committed. This is not a twomonth six months. This is a multi
month long plan. Yeah, youknow you spoke. You just mentioned psychological
(20:59):
safety. That was one of thethings that really stuck out to me when
I was reviewing your slides and Iwas thinking about that, and that totally
makes sense to me. If Idon't feel I can confidently go to my
superior and talk about, you knowwhat, I'm struggling with what I see,
what the issues are, and I'mjust kind of holding that to myself.
(21:22):
I could just see how that wouldjust destroy a culture so quickly.
I agree with you, and asEdmonds Press felt permission for candor that it's
okay to take risks. It's toexpress your ideas and to ask and admit
mistakes, and it's also it's notan environment where everybody's super happy and joyful
and every gets along. It's spiriteddiscussions and open debate, and maybe you
(21:48):
have a point where you get frustratedwith one another, but then you reconvene.
You don't go and talk smack aboutthat person to somebody else. You
go back and say, hey,what went wrong? Did I say something
that upset you? And that youare vulnerable enough to address the issues and
move forward, and companies that dothat successfully. And I have to give
props to my former employer, HDAArchitects and Engineers. When I walked into
(22:12):
the Sacramental office, when I wasinterviewed with lots of firms and looking at
where he wanted to go next,I felt that psychological safety and also that
camaraderie and kindness. It just permeatedwhen I walked in the door. And
you know when you feel it whenyou walk into a company that people are
getting along and they may be teasingeach other a little bit or something,
(22:33):
but that is the core essence tome of what is the foundation for good
culture. Yeah, man, Ireally love what you just said, and
it totally makes sense to me becauseyou're going to have very smart people,
very talented people, and you know, and what one individual has in talents
(22:55):
and education and knowledge is going tobe different than mine, right, so
it's better if we can come together. Maybe we don't see eye to eye
from the beginning, but that's okay. But we have the greater mission in
mind, right that, Hey,what we're trying to do is really truly
serve our clients, our industry,our community as a whole. And if
(23:19):
we can you know, kind ofwork through our differences. How crazy is
that in our society today where wedon't see that on a regular basis.
We need more of this kind ofdialogue. Well, I agree with you,
and I think that the other elementthat is so critical is proper training.
That you really need to train yourexecutive team. And you have to
(23:41):
make sure that the executive team isactively you know, getting along and that
they are really trying to move theneedle and make things better, you know,
as a firm. And I thinkthat's really important that you get somebody
that can go in and make surethat they are working, you know,
the best way that they can.Yeah, it reminds me of our company
(24:06):
and I've made reference to the AleraGroup and a lot of people don't know
the story behind that. But fiveand a half years ago, twenty four
firms across the nation came together andwe created a company. Wow. That
had never been done in our industryever, and we were given a fifty
fifty chance to do it. AndI remember being in some of those meetings
and discussions with twenty four entrepreneurs havebeen very successful already, and how what
(24:33):
you just described, how it unfoldedright in front of mine. There were
some heated discussions and debates about things, but there was there was one person
in visual or CEO that kept usfocused on the big picture. And here
we are, you know, almostsix years later, we're a multibillion dollars
something that's crazy to think about.Well, I just love that, and
(24:55):
what kudos to you for for thatsuccess. And you know, I've I
remember one of them. As Iwas preparing for the keynote speech for your
group, I really wanted to givea compelling informative you know that people would
walk away and would goes, ohmy goodness, we gotta get we gotta
get going. And I'm so gladthat it's I've already you know, had
(25:18):
people reach out from that speaking engagementthat want to talk more but one thing
in particular resonated with me as Iwas, you know, culling together all
of the facts and figures. TheSociety for Human Resources Management president, this
is the CEO, Johnny C.Taylor made a quote. He said,
quote billions of wasted dollars, millionsof miserable people. This is not a
(25:41):
war zone. It's the state ofthe American workplace. And that's the truth
is that, you know, weonly get one life. It's not that
long. So when when you've gotvery bright, talented people, if you
don't create an environment where they canshine and have career pathing opportunities and learn
and grow, they're going to leave, you know. And so I think
(26:03):
it's really important not only that youyou look at toxicity, but you look
at career path thing. You lookat ways like my son, who's you
know, working for a as asatellite mission operator, he's now going into
the software side because they're identifying histalents and helping him learn more about the
business. That's what a company shouldbe doing too. Yeah. Yeah,
that that quote you just mentioned,that was definitely one that I wanted to
(26:29):
repeat from CEO Johnny C. TaylorJunior. Sure, I'm President. Right,
Yeah, I mean that that onereally stuck out to me too.
You talked about billions of wasted dollars, millions of miserable people. It's not
a war zone, but it's thestate of the American workplace. I'm like,
wow, Yeah, I mean ifthat doesn't if he if this,
(26:51):
you know, president and CEO ofthe National Human Resource Association is saying that,
you know, there's some truth toit, and there's you know,
we we have to do better andwe owe it to the people we employ.
You know, there are a lotof very, very miserable environments out
there, and I know all ofus has probably experienced them at some time
or another. But you know,we must do better and we need to
(27:15):
address the issue. And I thinkthat's a problem Jeff, when you were
originally talking like why aren't people addressingthis? It because it's hard and they
don't know how to do it,and so sometimes you need an expert to
come in and guide that process andhave those difficult conversations so that you can
unpack what's not working and you know, find ways to make it better.
(27:37):
Yeah. Aronding me of a quoteI heard and I don't even know who
said this, but I want tosay it might have been Darren Hardy,
He's a success coach, but hesaid that people don't leave companies. They
leave people. They do. Yeah, I mean, if you ask people
why they leave, I mean,rarely is money at the top of the
(27:57):
list. Most of the time theyleave because of interpersonal challenges with somebody.
Maybe it's their boss, maybe they'rethey're they're you know, they're not being
listened to, maybe they're identifying issues. You know. Ryan and Al said
business leaders need to understand that greatculture is a very fragile thing. If
you're not consistently working to maintain andimprove workplace culture, happiness in the workplace
(28:22):
can very easily slip away. Havingone unhappy person can poison the well and
negatively affect culture company wide. Yeah, so we kind of touched on that,
and you know, what employees wanttalking about that. Let's let's talk
a little more and more about thatin terms of what the marketplace is,
what employees are really looking for,And it sounds like this is a big
(28:47):
part of it. But can theyI mean, if I'm an employee,
might is that what is on mymind? I you know, I'm trying
to think of it from that perspective. You know, I'm doing what I'm
doing, but I'm not looking fora new company position whatever. But is
that in their mind? That cultureis that? Is that a big thing?
Now? Oh yeah, it's everything, because truly, and that's why
(29:11):
when I gave that example of HDA, that's why I chose them, because
I was being courted by several companiessimultaneously, and I wanted to go to
the place where I felt had thebest workplace culture. And so I and
I'll tell you, I've worked inwhat you know, healthcare, manufacturing,
finances, telecommunications, federal courts,state legislature, and now I've got a
(29:32):
smattering of all kinds of clients aroundthe region. And what I found in
preparation again for the keynote speech,is that what employees want is pretty consistent
across companies, across industries. Andwhat they want is good pay and benefits,
fairness and flexibility. They want tobe appreciated. They want communication.
(29:56):
They want to they don't, theydon't lie to them. They'll figure it
out and then you'll derail your culture. They want a foundation of trust,
they want well being efforts so thatthey feel that they can bring their best
selves to work that they are diversityinclusion and not just in raising, but
gender and age and ideas and thoughtof training, inventorship. They want to
(30:18):
honesty and they want collaboration and thosethings are universally wanted, and you know,
and if they are not getting thoseelements, then they start to get
antsy, they underperform, and thenthey eventually leave. Yeah. Yeah,
So in your profession and your experience, what you're seeing right now, where
(30:38):
are we at as an employer culture? And we talked about you know,
the billions of dollars and the youknow, the war zone, etc.
If you could put a percentage onit, how much work do we have
to do? Oh my goodness,I think we're in a bit of a
crisis, to be honest with you. I mean, I consult with I
(31:00):
have probably a neighborhood of twelve elevenor twelve or so different firms that I've
consulted with the last year and ahalf, and most are experiencing problems with
culture, problems with people I thinkwe have. It's it's fascinating because with
the economy, you know, havingsome challenges, but we also have a
really difficult time hiring good people.It's it's so different than it was in
(31:25):
two thousand and eight with the recessionback then. It's it's different. It's
also we've got far more mental healthissues, abuse issues, a substance abuse,
people just in crisis. And sothat on top of a very very
difficult environment for employers to navigate withall of the legislative updates even then the
new legislative updates for California, Imean, I've had to really dig in
(31:51):
deep to understand them all. AndI mean, you know, on top
of all of the other things thatwe have to be in charge of,
it's never been more important to trainleaders and also to make sure that the
HR people that are in charge ofhandling and shepherding sort of the cultural aspects
are probably trained and supported. Sohow many others like you are out there?
(32:16):
Not enough I get I got acall last week from a CEO of
a hospital and he was he wasso stressed out because he can't find good
HR people. And I get somuch work from people that need help,
and I really, you know,I'm very picky about the people I give
(32:38):
my clients too, because I wantthem to be the very best of the
best, and there's not enough ofus out there, to be honest with
you, that have the background andexperience and the war wounds of a lot
of years under our belts and seeinga lot of problems and be able to
navigate them seamlessly. So it's anarea that I'm very passionate about. But
(32:58):
I really truly am worried for manyfirms that are struggling and they don't know
what to do, and that's whyI'm here to help. Yeah. Yeah,
So how do we duplicate you?You know how often I get that
question? Oh? I tell you, honestly, Jeff, it doesn't even
feel like work. I just lovewhat I do and it's just so inspiring.
(33:21):
I had the chief of police fora local city write this amazing testimonial
from my website and he said,you're bringing the human back to into human
resources and I just, oh,my goodness. I just I got kind
of teery when I read it,because that's the stuff I think that we
need to be concentrating on. Wecan just be dazzled by all the EI
and all that sort of stuff.I mean, that's that's cool and all,
(33:44):
but I think we really need tostart out is the basics of kindness,
empathy, trust, collaboration, andmaking sure that you listen to your
employees, that you do those engagementsurveys out there, and that's the way
you're going to be able to dothat the work to move the needle,
and it's it's not easy and ittakes a long time. Yeah, you've
(34:07):
talked a bit about kind of yourprocess. Can you kind of summarize that
again? And so if I havesomebody that wants to work with you,
and you sit down with them,kind of explain how that looks and how
that goes. Oh, certainly.So I create a customized template for each
client based on their needs, Likeif it's a hospital, it's going to
(34:27):
be vastly different than a nonprofit.And then what I generally recommend is that
we need to learn with the painpoints, not only from the executive side,
but from the employee side. Andeither focus groups, which can be
very telling. I had a hightech scientific company in the Bay Area that
hired me to do a focused groupin environment, and my goodness, it
(34:50):
was such an eye opening experience thateighty percent of them said that HR was
either non existent or not helpful.And I told the CEO, you've got
to put more money into your hrsider. You're going to continue to have
some of the best scientists in theworld that come work for you leave,
So we've got to learn what's happening. Then we have to develop a plan
(35:12):
of action where we identify, let'ssay, the four top points of issues
that are going on, and thenwe work with the teams and work with
the CEOs and executives to formulate astrategy. And I also would have suggest
that they incorporate a couple of employeeson that too, because you don't want
it just to be a top downexperience. It's got to be a collaborative
(35:32):
and then an execution strategy of howto develop an enhance culture with actionable items.
Don't You don't want to do everythingall at once. We'll get nothing
done, but maybe like three orfour or five key elements you're trying to
change and then reassess within a yearto see if if you've improved. You
(35:53):
mentioned that it's not a quick fix. You said, yeah, we're going
to reevaluate a year or so.Take you know, and I know each
situation is going to be a littledifferent, right YEA, Some are worse
than others. So on an average, if I'm looking at this, let's
say my culture is not super supertoxic, super bad. I mean,
(36:17):
what kind I expect as an employer, you know, to really change this,
to get this paradigm shift and really, you know, change my culture.
That's a really good question, Jeff. I think it depends on how
bad it is. And so ifit's let's say it's a it's a good
not great environment. You know,it could take a few months to make
(36:39):
things dramatically better, but it reallytakes a concentrated effort and even the CEO
to walk around and talk to peopleand tell me what's going on. I'm
you know, I loved it whenI was working for employers when the CEOs
would contact me directly and say,Aaron, what's the scoop? Tell me
what's going on, so that theycould or we're where. The higher you
(37:00):
are are up in the hierarchy,the less you know about what the true
nature is. And also being atuned to the rumor mill and the things
that you're hearing like oh, Isee that you know this person is not
performing that well. I'm hearing thatwould and then getting to the root of
that and making sure you talked toall levels of the organization and treat them
with kindness and respect, because you'llyou know, you've got people at our
(37:23):
frontline receptionist right out of college oryou know, right out of high school
or something. They might have someamazing ideas that would benefit the organization.
Yeah. Yeah, you know it'sfunny. I I can tell too when
I walk into a business or areyou in a restaurant, right, what
(37:44):
kind of culture there is? What'sgoing on there just from the person that
greets me. Yep, yeah,they're they're kind of the face they emulate
what's really going on. Yeah,yeah, U. So I again,
I'm looking through your presentation, soI'm on one of the final slides that
(38:08):
says workplace culture key takeaways, andI'll just read these off real quick.
Measure investing your people, training,mentor staff. Protect your staff from toxic,
uncivil behavior, established clear expectations.That's good, right, There has
(38:29):
to be some accountability there. Letgo of staff who cause friction. Oh
I don't want to come back tothat one for a second. Okay,
but I'm finished this. Protect yourculture and talk to your employees. Hire
experts who can help, like Aaronan action planet works. I want to
go back to this middle one here, established clear expectations, let go of
(38:51):
staff who cause friction. I'm notan HR manager, I am an amount
position. I don't want to letpeople go. Yeah, okay, so
I'm kind of nervous about that.You know, In all the years I've
been doing this, I think backon it, there's only a couple that
(39:15):
I really felt like, oh,yeah, we're we gotta let him go,
and then the other it was reallya struggle. I just didn't want
to do it. So is thatkind of part of the problem too.
Yeah. I think the other problemthat I see is that I had one
CEO that was very reticent to letgo of a truly toxic executive, and
(39:37):
I cautioned him that if he didn'tdo that that there could be ripple effects
later. And you know, afew months left to the fact, he
called me and says, Aaron,you were right, you should have done
it. So and I think whathappens is is that we look for the
good in people, which is whichis good. There's nothing wrong with that.
(39:57):
But from the HR lens, wewe tend to see seven steps down
the road about what's going to happen. And we want to help people.
We want to get them on board, identify their behavioral issues, and get
them better. But once we're atthe final stretch, sometimes you as an
executive or CEO need need to makea hard call. And if it's if
(40:19):
it's to protect the employees versus protectthe culture. You know, culture wins
because the rest of your staff.I've I've even seen people like like in
Tears of Joy when the most awfulemployee finally is no longer there. And
so you know, you owe itto the rest of the staff that are
(40:39):
they're struggling and hurting and maybe they'rebeing There's a lot of bullying you know,
going on in cultures too, andyou owe it to them to protect
them. Yeah, I really likethat culture wins. That's a good one.
I'm going to write that one down. That's a good culture. One
(40:59):
of my favorite closes is what isthe culture eats policy for lunch? I
mean, you can try to createall the policies you want, this is
what we're gonna do, and we'renever just like, yeah, that's a
good one too. I'm sure yougot a lot of them, and you
know, Jeff, here's another thingI found in my research for this speech.
(41:22):
There is actually a template of atoxic employee, and I didn't know
yet. And what I found inthe literature is that these toxic people tend
to be overconfident, self centered,productive, and rule following, so that
combination and I was really surprised.I didn't expect that combination. Those types
(41:45):
of employees were more likely to betoxic. But it makes sense because a
lot of times the super productive,the ones that bring in all the all
of the clients, who dazzle anddo amazing work, but they are just
awful to deal with. They're hardto let go because you're you're afraid of
losing somebody super productive and they're followingthe rules, but they're making everybody's lives
(42:09):
miserable. So you can see theconundrum with that, right, that's so
funny. I'm sorry I had ofshit and laugh, but I'm actually thinking
a couple of people. I know, we all know those people right in
my own family. Oh my gosh, that's really interesting. I know I
(42:35):
thought it was too. Yeah,they're highly productive and they're rule followers.
Wow, okay, interesting, Ah, this is great. I could go
on and on and we've gotten alittle over there what we normally do.
But I love talking about this andI love talking about it with you.
Oh, I love it too.This has been and honestly, Jeff,
it's been such an honor to beyour keynote speaker for the Sacrament of Executives
(43:00):
Network and then being brought back acouple of weeks later to this. It's
just I love this. Yeah,and I'm grateful that we got connected,
we got introduced, and I'm goingto do a little shout out to missy
Elmore here. Oh she's amazing peoplerock. She's another HR consultant. She
likes the compliance stuff, right.Yeah, that's why she and I make
(43:22):
such a good team with our clientsand when we work together because I used
to send a lot of my clientsto her and then she'll bring me in
on some of the juicy stuff andwe make a good team. Yeah.
That's what makes UM my job.It's fun is having you know, relationships
with people like you and Misty andothers that as an employee benefits consultant.
(43:45):
I can I can walk into abusiness, talk to the c suite and
really be kind of the quarterback right, It's like, Okay, yeah,
I'm an expert in insurance, butI'm also somebody that is very well connected
and I'm here to serve and tohelp. Yep, I'm going to bring
(44:08):
in the air and Shelby's of theworld. If that's the pain point and
that's what you're struggling with, welllet's let's make that phone call. Yeah.
And I think the other two thingI'd love to do, Jeff,
is to humanize the experience, becauseI think it's super important that we're not
there to just hack people's heads off. We're there to really listen and empathize.
(44:34):
And I find that the most fragiletend to be the very top because
they don't have always the network ofpeople that they can go to to vent
and to be nervous with or whatever. That they need a lot of support
as well. I mean that truly, the CEOs and people like yourselves that
are you know, you have somuch to deal with on your plates that
(44:57):
you need a person that you canvent and when you're feeling overwhelmed. That
that's what a good consultant can provideis a good listening opportunity. And also,
you know, leadership enhancement too,because let's face it, we all
have areas that we can improve upon. And finding good coaches and mentors to
help you move the needle to performeven better, that's something I love to
(45:19):
do. Yeah, yeah, Iwrote that down to the human ice.
I'm gonna go back and listen tothis again. But but no, you're
right, and make you make areally great point there. It is lonely
at the top. It's very yeah, and sometimes you feel like you're on
an island. Yes, And it'swhat's frightening is that, especially depending on
(45:42):
them. If you have a multistate company and you have people in all
these different locations, that's what it'ssuper important to do as much as you
can. You know, like whenI would have a CEO that'd be visiting,
I'd create a little cheat sheet.Okay, these are employees names,
there's the pictures, and you knowthis person likes dogs, and this person's
going to Mexico and you know,and so that way, when the CEO
(46:05):
arrived, they would they would actuallyhave like, Oh, how's it going,
George. I hear you're going tobe going to Mexico next week?
Where are you going in Mexico?All those kinds of things to humanize the
employees' perceptions of the executive team too, because they're they're nervous, you know.
And when you when the CEO wouldactually go to different locations and walk
(46:27):
around, people were just so excitedbecause they felt like they were getting the
attention that they wanted. And maybethey really feel like they're valued. Yes,
yeah, that you know the leaderscare about them. Yeah. When
I would hear about, let's say, someone who would done their job very
(46:49):
well from I would go back tothem and say, hey, Mary,
I hear you just you just killedit with that client proposal and you stayed
up until two am. I amso impressed, and I want to let
you know the executive team is too. And but the sad thing is that
what I found when I talked toMary about eighty percent of the time,
no one had ever told that toMarry. They didn't. They told it
to me as the HR person.I was like, go tell Mary,
(47:13):
which how much you appreciate her.That's the stuff that executives need to do.
And a robust employee appreciation program whereyou write letters of appreciation and hen
written notes that that in and ofitself is tremendously impactful. Well, man,
it just seems to be a commonsense to me, it is.
(47:35):
I don't know. I mean,we talked about it at the beginning,
you know, before we got on, we were talking about family values and
how we were brought up and howwe were taught. It. Just to
me, this just seems like commonsense. Like I said, it just
should be natural, I think,Jeff truly. I mean, one of
(47:57):
my heroes was my grandmother, whoimmigrated from Holland and came through Ellisile Island,
and she had a really challenging life. And she and I were roommates
for a while when I moved toCalifornia in my twenties, and she would
cook her dishes and I would cleanthe house and stuff, and we we
just bonded. And she had areally rough time. They lived in the
projects, my father lived in subsidizedhousing, and you know, they had
(48:21):
really a rough time. But shewas just so grateful, and I think
about what resonated with her in herlifetime is still true today. It's about
being respectful, it's about being kindto one another, it's asking questions,
it's communicating effectively. I don't thinkshe would be dazzled by all of the
AI stuff and all of the bellsand whistles, and that's still true today.
(48:43):
I think that we're losing focus onthe human side of things, and
we've got we need to go backto that. Yeah, yeah, I
agree with the I hearia. Soyou aren't you said your grandmother a great
grandma, my grandmother, your grandmother. Wow, So I have um on
my mom's side, My great greatgrandma came. Our family came through Ellis
(49:08):
Island from Italy. Oh wow,okay, um. And I went back
to New York several years ago andthey have these plaques with names and I
was able to find some of myrelatives. Oh that's amazing. I'll have
to look when I go back.It was so cool if you have that
opportunity. Yeah, so cool.Um, well this has been fun.
(49:31):
Um. We could spend more timeon this, but I know we usually
only do thirty minutes. But UM, I'm on purpose. I went over
today because, UM, there's justso much stuff. Is there Is there
anything that, um, maybe thatyou want to share our talk about that
I've missed that we should before.Um. We kind of wrapped this up.
(49:52):
I thank you Jeff and truly.It's it's such an honor to be
invited to this forum. I thinkthat I would just encourage, if nothing
else, CEOs get out talk toyour employees, find out what makes them
tick. Ask questions like what's gettingin the way of your success? What
can we do better for you?If they do that, I think that
will move the need a bit moreimportantly, they really do need to invest
(50:15):
on in retention strategies, listening tours, things like that, because if they
don't, they're going to pay dearly. I mean the cost for this kind
of work. They'll they'll get backtwenty fortyfold in better productivity, better customer
service, all of the Yelp reviewsand all that sort of stuff. So
it's it's now, it's more importantnow than it ever has been. So
(50:37):
if somebody wants to engage with you, how do they contact you? Oh?
Well, yeah they can go toand go to my website Shelby hr
Solutions dot com and happy to helpit. And if I'm not able to
help, I'll make sure they getsomebody. Truly remarkable. But yeah,
it's this is honestly, I justlove doing this and helping move the needle.
(51:00):
I had a lieutenant come up tome, you know, about a
month ago, and he pulled measide for this city that I'm working with,
and he said, Aaron, wealready see the changes. You're really
making things better. And I'm went, wow, you know, and just
like five weeks I think at thatpoint, and you know, and that's
the stuff that just makes my heartsaying is that that it's it's really it
(51:22):
just takes some effort and some youknow, and so it's just it's fun.
Yeah. Yeah, Well, weappreciate you making time for us.
Of course, well that we couldget you on so quickly. I know
it was a short notice, butI felt like, hey, we need
(51:42):
to get this out there. Loveit. Yeah. I won't continue to
our conversations, UM, I havesome other thoughts that, um I want
to talk to you about and howwe can get this message out love it.
Yeah. So thank you so muchfor making time, and grateful for
you and what you're doing, andsuper excited to continue our our friendship and
(52:06):
our relationship. I do as well. And Jeff, thank you so much
for helping out with some clients stufftoo. I really appreciate that. And
I'm glad to come back and alsohave other folks that might be of compelling
guests for you to consider too ifyou want to know more. But thank
you so much and behalf of myfirm. It's it's an honor, all
right. You have a great restof your day. Thanks, all right,
(52:29):
we'll talk to you soon. Soundsgreat. Thanks again, take care Bye,
Brett that we're at the half hour, and I just want to say good
morning to everybody. Happy Thursday herein northern California. We're turning in the
corner. We're in the spring andallergies and all that good stuff. My
name is Jeff Turner. I amthe managing partner for PWA Insurance Services and
(00:25):
alerta Group company. We provide localservice in the employee benefits arena with National
Resources Group. Is actually the eleventhlargest employee benefits from in the nation in
less than five years, so we'resuper excited about that. I am the
(00:46):
host of today's Benefit in Brief,Benefits and Brief podcast, and We've got
an incredible guest today and I'm soexcited to welcome Aaron Shelby. Now,
Aaron, I know you got soAaron Burg Shelby, right, Yeah,
(01:07):
get that that middle name as well. I guess Burg is what is that?
You're that's my maiden name, Gidenname, Okay, Shelby phr.
So, Aaron, I hope Idon't mind. I hope you don't mind.
I want to embarrass you a littlebit. Um. You have quite
a track record. I was lookingover your history and going way back I
(01:32):
mean, you're you've worked for somepretty large employers before you went out on
your own in this space. Correct, That's correct. Yeah, so maybe
kind of just summarize your your pathto where you're at right now for people,
certainly so. I am Aaron Shelby, owner of a firm called Shelby
HR Solutions, and I specialized inhelping develop workplace culture UM. I also
(01:57):
helped train HR leaders to do reallywell and their jobs get inspired. And
I am also an HR expert witnessfor a trial testimony for wrongful termination and
things like that. So I getcalled by attorneys to represent both planets and
defendants and I really love what Ido. I've had a very interesting career.
(02:19):
I've started my HR journey and alittle little town in Ireland. I
worked as a as an American overseasfor a little bit for an Irish very
small company, came back to theStates and from there I've worked for a
number of companies including Setter Health,the US District Court, Eastern District of
California, California State Assembly. I'vealso worked in manufacturing and also for architects
(02:46):
and engineers, and then I startedmy firm just under two years ago and
it's just gone crazy and I'm havinga ball. Yeah, you have quite
a diverse background working in the publicand of its sector that I'm sure that
brings a unique you know, UMtalent base, I guess or experience to
(03:07):
the table to help help your clients. Yeah. I found that what is
interesting with my background, and I'mthe I was always the one that would
leave a company when I got bored. So, you know, three or
four years I learned and changed enoughand I wanted to try something new,
so that you know that that's whatI've done. But I think what makes
(03:27):
me unique is that I do havethe federal experience. I've got the state
experience with was with the legislature fora just under thirteen years, and UM
I also have in my consulting practicework with nonprofits and also local government,
city government. So it's been areally wonderful experience because of how varied and
interesting they all are. Yeah,So the topic we're going to UM we
(03:50):
were just kind of chatting before wewent live UM workplace culture, and I
want to I'm trying to think back. I've been doing what I've been doing
for so long, and I'm goingto kind of date myself now, but
I don't really even remember hearing muchabout workplace culture in the eighties and nineties,
(04:14):
or maybe not even the maybe alittle bit in the early two thousands,
but I don't remember a lot aboutit being you know, front and
center in the eighties and nineties.Maybe kind of speak to that for a
second, kind of where we're athow that? Yes, so, Jake,
I agree with you. HR ishaving a moment, and finally it's
come to this. Back when Istarted my career, I've been doing this
(04:36):
for thirty two years. It's beenquite a wide a journey. But in
the beginning when I started, HRwas benefit forms of potlucks. That's really
all you really needed to do,and so and now it's evolved into strategy
and culture and retention and mental healthissues and compliance and legal risk and PAGA
(04:57):
claims and waging our laws, allof the all the above, and so
it has become so incredibly complicated forcompanies to do it well, and especially
with the post pandemic era that we'rein, it's you know, the residual
effects of culture are being felt withreturning back to office and trying to help
(05:19):
with a lot of people that arein distress. So there's never been a
time in history, in my opinion, especially in California, because how hard
it is to work here for employersto be in the space of HR.
Yeah, so there's kind of theI guess, the perfect storm right where
(05:40):
we're at right now in terms ofwhat's on the plate for HR. You
just mentioned several items, and Igot to imagine that that's just got to
be kind of a little overwhelming forthem. It is, and quite frankly,
even myself, I'll get in awhen I'm helping a client, I'll
get asked something out of left field, like labor negotiations. Right now,
(06:00):
I'm helping a client and you know, very complicated transactions and wage and our
laws and how they impact liability,insurance coverage and all that. And so
it's an area that I think thatmost companies do not understand the peril of
doing it poorly. And so inmy work in training HR professionals, I
(06:23):
do a lot of basic compliance andtechnical skills training so that they know the
laws inside it out, because it'skind of frightening when they are making employment
decisions and termination decisions, etc.Or failure to accommodate or not handing a
retaliation claim properly, and it putsthe company at risk. Yeah. Yeah,
(06:45):
being that we're interacting with business,you know, the C suite on
a regular bastions as well, Isee it. And it's certainly something that
I'm not an expert in, right. I look to you know and Shelby's
of the world to help us.And great to have you on our team.
For sure. We want we wantto be able to to move this
(07:09):
needle, you know, to theright to the positive. So last month,
Aaron was great enough to speak withour keynote speaker for the Sacramento Executive's
Network, which is a professional networkinggroup here in Sacramento, and this was
her topic. She talked about workworkplace culture and in your presentation, ar'na,
(07:33):
I'm gonna grab some of the contentthat's in there. I've made some
notes from it. I reviewed ityesterday. In there, you asked the
audience what makes a great culture?Before we get to that part, can
you explain what exactly is workplace cultureanyway? I mean, and you put
(07:55):
some content around that I'd be happytoo. And this is what I'm passionate
about is helping companies improve it oneof the best ways that I've held my
last company. Both my LA officeand my Sacramental office were voted best places
to work by the Los Angeles BusinessJournal and Sacramental Business Journal. So it's
something that's very important to me.What I consider workplace culture to be is
(08:18):
the way we do everything, theway we communicate, the way we interact,
the way that we solve problems,the way that we handle disagreements,
and all of the nuances that comeinto making a company special. And so
that's why it's it's very delicate,it's something that can change very quickly,
and so it's something that most companiesshould be pursuing an eyeing ways to make
(08:43):
it better. Yeah. So thatbrings up a thought where does it start.
I think it starts from the top. I think you have to have
leadership and a CEO that really getsit and it's humble and empathetic enough m
so that they are creating from theirown actions an environment where people will be
(09:07):
able to bring issues and trust tothem and bring forth problems. And so
I think that's the foundation. Yeah, No, I appreciate that. And
to drive this point home, I'mgoing to read from an article I quoting
from an article that I read yesterdaythat I actually shared with you on LinkedIn.
(09:28):
Yeah, we're going to get intowhat what are the benefits of employee
engagement, and then we're going totalk about the opposite of that, this
engagement, because I know you canspeak to that, but I'm going to
read this real quick, so Iwant to. I think this is really
interesting, and this for the owners, you know, the CEO, the
(09:48):
CEF, those who are leading inthis initiative. I'm hoping this is what
is going to speak to you.So this is interesting. Um. This
is a survey that was done.It's an article from HR Executives the correlation
between the company's stock performance and whetherits workforce was in the top or bottom
(10:15):
ten percent of highly engaged employees.Those who are in the top ten percent
in many cases outperformed the SMP fivehundred, which is really interesting. And
to drive the point further, eachadditional point of engagement that employees are involved
(10:35):
in was reported of value of fortysix thousand, five hundred dollars in market
cap difference per That's pretty significant.If I'm I'm a CFO, I gotta
I gotta be hearing that right now. So there's there's the cost one way
(10:58):
or the other return on investment.I know that the CFOs like to use
that a lot. So there isthe proof in the putting right there on
that side. I mean, youwant to speak to that for a second,
and maybe we can go into whatis the cost of disengagement. Yes,
let's start with the the the effectsof true engagement and what I consider
(11:24):
to be highly engaged employees is inthe statistics show that and roughly one third
of your employees are highly engaged.That means two thirds are either actively disengaged,
probably one third or maybe you knowquarter of that and the rest are
moderately engaged. And so there aresignificant costs associating with that. And I'm
(11:48):
always amazed when I get contacted bya firm or you know, I had
like a two hundred million dollars firmand they were so, you know,
nervous about spending money on culture.And I'm like, dude, if you're
not going to spend money on culture, you're going to pay for it on
the back end when people leave you, because they really and now more than
effort, that's what in gallup showson disengagement. Disengagement costs relatively about thirty
(12:15):
four percent of an employee's salary isthe true cost for every person who's disengaged.
So if you have one hundred thousanddollars executive who is actively disengaged,
And in my expert witness work,I had a case where we had a
very disgruntled executive who was terminated andI was like, and for you know,
(12:35):
I felt was they were handling itright. But the true cost for
someone in that capacity is even greaterbecause of the way that they influence the
organization and the people that they manage. So it is truly something that I
wish more employers and CEOs and CFOswould give credence to because this is not
just fluff. This is stuff that'sgoing to affect the bottom line. It's
(12:56):
going to make companies more competitive.It's gonna you know, you're gonna have
somebody who's highly engaging, gonna staywork until midnight to get a project done
because they care. That's what it'sabout. Yeah, I'm bringing up one
of your slides. I was tryingto find it the true cost workplace toxicity,
toxic toxicity and incivility I'm just readingfrom one of your slides, so
(13:22):
this is this is actually numbers fromSCHERM one to five. People have left
jobs with bad culture and the costis two hundred and thirty three billion dollars.
Toxicity in and of itself can bea derailment for a firm. It
can actually implode a company entirely.I've seen it, especially with small companies.
(13:46):
I'll give you an example. Therewas a medical provider and I won't
you know, obviously mention any namesor anything, and the you could tell
as soon as you walked in thedoor there was one person who was extremely
rude to everyone and felt entitled,and she was the daughter of the owner
of the firm. And I wasso like shocked at that at the market
(14:09):
difference in the culture when I walkedin to get services, that I changed
providers because I just didn't want tointeract with that person. And that's what
I'm talking about. This you couldhave a mass exodus. And not only
that, is that there are studiesto show that toxicity impacts even your best
employees that they could you know,if you've got somebody that's doing something illegal
and you know, embezzlement or somethinglike that that can actually impact the good
(14:33):
people too. So what I recommendis if you have someone or that you
think is a danger to the workplaceculture, you need to address it quickly
and efficiently, and if it doesn'twork, you know, find ways to
you know, to part ways.And it's that important. And I've just
seen it so many times even inmy own career, where you know,
(14:54):
you've got someone who is negatively impactingand gossiping and all that back channel stuff,
and it just it really derives themaround. Yeah. Yeah, to
your point, I'm reading again fromthat that particular slide to kind of back
up what you just said. Yourbest employees are fifty four percent more likely
to quit when they have a toxiccoworker. Estimates the cost of disengagement is
(15:18):
thirty four percent of their annual salary. Nearly half of the employees decreased their
work effort. Just talked about sixtythree percent lost time from work. So
we're talking about productivity here, right, Yeah, I mean, and that's
that's that's the other hidden effects isthat you've got really good people, but
(15:39):
they don't like, you know,working with John in the office, and
so they're like I don't want todeal with John today. I'm gonna call
in sick, or I'm going toleave early because they just don't want to
or I'm not going to interact withthem at all because he's so rude and
or he just doesn't know what he'sdoing. And so those are the things
that need to take place. Andwhat I see very often is that it
comes. Company will avoid and kickthe can down the road for so long
(16:03):
with an employee that by the timethey get so frustrated they're ready to terminate,
but they haven't done any of theirdue diligence. That you need to
show that it was an appropriate basedon productivity and not other kind of protected
activity. So what do you basedon your experience? Why do you think
(16:26):
that is that? Is that amatter of maybe, like you in the
one case you said, it's afamily member that's working there, maybe there's
some entitlement. I want to givegrace to most professionals, and I certainly
understand that that is the case insome situations. But is it a matter
(16:47):
of maybe just not having the knowledgeand the training and understanding on how to
deal with it. I think that'spart of it. The other part that
I think that that comes to playis the fact that having difficult conversations is
everybody who's cup of tea, mostpeople, myself included. I don't like
doing it either, But if youdon't do it, then you're not addressing
(17:07):
the problem and you're not identifying Ijust work with my client yesterday. They
had a person that hadn't worked afull schedule, a full work schedule in
like six months, and it's like, why did you guys let this happen?
Because persons just coming and going whereverthey chose, and so helping that
client set expectations and if they ifthey did that from the get go,
(17:27):
if you as a manager, supervisor, CEO, set your expectations of what
you expect and not only work stufflike you know, completing deadlines and things
like that, but also how youbehave that you expect them to be kind
to one another, of respectful communicationand all of those things I think should
be clearly laid out because if youdo that in the beginning, you'll avoid
(17:51):
a lot of problems later on.Yeah, so let's kind of move to
that how to improve it, howto maintain in it. I know that
was something that you talked about it, and I'm again I'm going to I'm
going to quote a couple of itemsfrom some of your slides. So,
workplace culture, what is it?We talked a little bit about that,
(18:11):
but let's get into kind of thenitty gritty of it. I'm going to
read this quote and then we cankind of go from there. So,
work culture the values, beliefs andattitudes that guide an organization sets employee expectations
for how should how should behave orhow they should behave and interact with one
another as they perform their daily responsibilitiesand contributing the company companies overall mission.
(18:36):
So that's where I want to gowith this is, you know, most
companies have a mission, they havea you know, they have a vision.
They know they have values, right, so this should be incorporated into
that. So let's talk about that, creating a clear vision around this and
values and how to measure that goingforward. Yeah, And what I've done
(18:59):
with my fur is I've looked athow a lot of other places are doing
it, and I decided to takea more comprehensive approach because I think it's
not just doing a potlock on Fridayor you know, kombuchon t app or
ping pong tables and all that.You have to start out with the foundation
of trust and civility and psychological safety. And that's a real biggie where if
(19:23):
you have an environment where people aretoo afraid to speak up and they're afraid
of retaliation or somebody's going to Iroll other contemptuous behavior, you're not going
to have a place where people canactively talk about the issues that take place.
So the approach that I've taken thatI take with my clients is a
learned plan execute where we learn byconducting an engagement survey, conducting focus groups,
(19:48):
reviewing the data, and with theexecutive staff looking for areas of toxicity.
And again we're not trying to firepeople. We want to get people
elevated to a point where they acontributing successfully to the organization. And then
creating an action list, and thenplanning a communication plan looking at the honest
assessment of what the issues are andaddressing that low performing staff, fine tuning
(20:15):
your onboarding and recognition plans. Youshould do an epic welcome. I read
an article on Fortune magazine just thisweek how important that is that if you
have a really robust way for peopleto feel incorporated into the culture. Quickly
you will have a better retention.And then finally the execution stage, which
is developing a strategy, a culturestrategy that is unique for the company,
(20:38):
communicating with your employees. A lotof them are kind of suspicious when you
unroll as new fancy plan, youknow, but you really have to be
committed. This is not a twomonth six months. This is a multi
month long plan. Yeah, youknow you spoke. You just mentioned psychological
(20:59):
safety. That was one of thethings that really stuck out to me when
I was reviewing your slides and Iwas thinking about that, and that totally
makes sense to me. If Idon't feel I can confidently go to my
superior and talk about, you knowwhat, I'm struggling with what I see,
what the issues are, and I'mjust kind of holding that to myself.
(21:22):
I could just see how that wouldjust destroy a culture so quickly.
I agree with you, and asEdmonds Press felt permission for candor that it's
okay to take risks. It's toexpress your ideas and to ask and admit
mistakes, and it's also it's notan environment where everybody's super happy and joyful
and every gets along. It's spiriteddiscussions and open debate, and maybe you
(21:48):
have a point where you get frustratedwith one another, but then you reconvene.
You don't go and talk smack aboutthat person to somebody else. You
go back and say, hey,what went wrong? Did I say something
that upset you? And that youare vulnerable enough to address the issues and
move forward, and companies that dothat successfully. And I have to give
props to my former employer, HDAArchitects and Engineers. When I walked into
(22:12):
the Sacramental office, when I wasinterviewed with lots of firms and looking at
where he wanted to go next,I felt that psychological safety and also that
camaraderie and kindness. It just permeatedwhen I walked in the door. And
you know when you feel it whenyou walk into a company that people are
getting along and they may be teasingeach other a little bit or something,
(22:33):
but that is the core essence tome of what is the foundation for good
culture. Yeah, man, Ireally love what you just said, and
it totally makes sense to me becauseyou're going to have very smart people,
very talented people, and you know, and what one individual has in talents
(22:55):
and education and knowledge is going tobe different than mine, right, so
it's better if we can come together. Maybe we don't see eye to eye
from the beginning, but that's okay. But we have the greater mission in
mind, right that, Hey,what we're trying to do is really truly
serve our clients, our industry,our community as a whole. And if
(23:19):
we can you know, kind ofwork through our differences. How crazy is
that in our society today where wedon't see that on a regular basis.
We need more of this kind ofdialogue. Well, I agree with you,
and I think that the other elementthat is so critical is proper training.
That you really need to train yourexecutive team. And you have to
(23:41):
make sure that the executive team isactively you know, getting along and that
they are really trying to move theneedle and make things better, you know,
as a firm. And I thinkthat's really important that you get somebody
that can go in and make surethat they are working, you know,
the best way that they can.Yeah, it reminds me of our company
(24:06):
and I've made reference to the AleraGroup and a lot of people don't know
the story behind that. But fiveand a half years ago, twenty four
firms across the nation came together andwe created a company. Wow. That
had never been done in our industryever, and we were given a fifty
fifty chance to do it. AndI remember being in some of those meetings
and discussions with twenty four entrepreneurs havebeen very successful already, and how what
(24:33):
you just described, how it unfoldedright in front of mine. There were
some heated discussions and debates about things, but there was there was one person
in visual or CEO that kept usfocused on the big picture. And here
we are, you know, almostsix years later, we're a multibillion dollars
something that's crazy to think about.Well, I just love that, and
(24:55):
what kudos to you for for thatsuccess. And you know, I've I
remember one of them. As Iwas preparing for the keynote speech for your
group, I really wanted to givea compelling informative you know that people would
walk away and would goes, ohmy goodness, we gotta get we gotta
get going. And I'm so gladthat it's I've already you know, had
(25:18):
people reach out from that speaking engagementthat want to talk more but one thing
in particular resonated with me as Iwas, you know, culling together all
of the facts and figures. TheSociety for Human Resources Management president, this
is the CEO, Johnny C.Taylor made a quote. He said,
quote billions of wasted dollars, millionsof miserable people. This is not a
(25:41):
war zone. It's the state ofthe American workplace. And that's the truth
is that, you know, weonly get one life. It's not that
long. So when when you've gotvery bright, talented people, if you
don't create an environment where they canshine and have career pathing opportunities and learn
and grow, they're going to leave, you know. And so I think
(26:03):
it's really important not only that youyou look at toxicity, but you look
at career path thing. You lookat ways like my son, who's you
know, working for a as asatellite mission operator, he's now going into
the software side because they're identifying histalents and helping him learn more about the
business. That's what a company shouldbe doing too. Yeah. Yeah,
that that quote you just mentioned,that was definitely one that I wanted to
(26:29):
repeat from CEO Johnny C. TaylorJunior. Sure, I'm President. Right,
Yeah, I mean that that onereally stuck out to me too.
You talked about billions of wasted dollars, millions of miserable people. It's not
a war zone, but it's thestate of the American workplace. I'm like,
wow, Yeah, I mean ifthat doesn't if he if this,
(26:51):
you know, president and CEO ofthe National Human Resource Association is saying that,
you know, there's some truth toit, and there's you know,
we we have to do better andwe owe it to the people we employ.
You know, there are a lotof very, very miserable environments out
there, and I know all ofus has probably experienced them at some time
or another. But you know,we must do better and we need to
(27:15):
address the issue. And I thinkthat's a problem Jeff, when you were
originally talking like why aren't people addressingthis? It because it's hard and they
don't know how to do it,and so sometimes you need an expert to
come in and guide that process andhave those difficult conversations so that you can
unpack what's not working and you know, find ways to make it better.
(27:37):
Yeah. Aronding me of a quoteI heard and I don't even know who
said this, but I want tosay it might have been Darren Hardy,
He's a success coach, but hesaid that people don't leave companies. They
leave people. They do. Yeah, I mean, if you ask people
why they leave, I mean,rarely is money at the top of the
(27:57):
list. Most of the time theyleave because of interpersonal challenges with somebody.
Maybe it's their boss, maybe they'rethey're they're you know, they're not being
listened to, maybe they're identifying issues. You know. Ryan and Al said
business leaders need to understand that greatculture is a very fragile thing. If
you're not consistently working to maintain andimprove workplace culture, happiness in the workplace
(28:22):
can very easily slip away. Havingone unhappy person can poison the well and
negatively affect culture company wide. Yeah, so we kind of touched on that,
and you know, what employees wanttalking about that. Let's let's talk
a little more and more about thatin terms of what the marketplace is,
what employees are really looking for,And it sounds like this is a big
(28:47):
part of it. But can theyI mean, if I'm an employee,
might is that what is on mymind? I you know, I'm trying
to think of it from that perspective. You know, I'm doing what I'm
doing, but I'm not looking fora new company position whatever. But is
that in their mind? That cultureis that? Is that a big thing?
Now? Oh yeah, it's everything, because truly, and that's why
(29:11):
when I gave that example of HDA, that's why I chose them, because
I was being courted by several companiessimultaneously, and I wanted to go to
the place where I felt had thebest workplace culture. And so I and
I'll tell you, I've worked inwhat you know, healthcare, manufacturing,
finances, telecommunications, federal courts,state legislature, and now I've got a
(29:32):
smattering of all kinds of clients aroundthe region. And what I found in
preparation again for the keynote speech,is that what employees want is pretty consistent
across companies, across industries. Andwhat they want is good pay and benefits,
fairness and flexibility. They want tobe appreciated. They want communication.
(29:56):
They want to they don't, theydon't lie to them. They'll figure it
out and then you'll derail your culture. They want a foundation of trust,
they want well being efforts so thatthey feel that they can bring their best
selves to work that they are diversityinclusion and not just in raising, but
gender and age and ideas and thoughtof training, inventorship. They want to
(30:18):
honesty and they want collaboration and thosethings are universally wanted, and you know,
and if they are not getting thoseelements, then they start to get
antsy, they underperform, and thenthey eventually leave. Yeah. Yeah,
So in your profession and your experience, what you're seeing right now, where
(30:38):
are we at as an employer culture? And we talked about you know,
the billions of dollars and the youknow, the war zone, etc.
If you could put a percentage onit, how much work do we have
to do? Oh my goodness,I think we're in a bit of a
crisis, to be honest with you. I mean, I consult with I
(31:00):
have probably a neighborhood of twelve elevenor twelve or so different firms that I've
consulted with the last year and ahalf, and most are experiencing problems with
culture, problems with people I thinkwe have. It's it's fascinating because with
the economy, you know, havingsome challenges, but we also have a
really difficult time hiring good people.It's it's so different than it was in
(31:25):
two thousand and eight with the recessionback then. It's it's different. It's
also we've got far more mental healthissues, abuse issues, a substance abuse,
people just in crisis. And sothat on top of a very very
difficult environment for employers to navigate withall of the legislative updates even then the
new legislative updates for California, Imean, I've had to really dig in
(31:51):
deep to understand them all. AndI mean, you know, on top
of all of the other things thatwe have to be in charge of,
it's never been more important to trainleaders and also to make sure that the
HR people that are in charge ofhandling and shepherding sort of the cultural aspects
are probably trained and supported. Sohow many others like you are out there?
(32:16):
Not enough I get I got acall last week from a CEO of
a hospital and he was he wasso stressed out because he can't find good
HR people. And I get somuch work from people that need help,
and I really, you know,I'm very picky about the people I give
(32:38):
my clients too, because I wantthem to be the very best of the
best, and there's not enough ofus out there, to be honest with
you, that have the background andexperience and the war wounds of a lot
of years under our belts and seeinga lot of problems and be able to
navigate them seamlessly. So it's anarea that I'm very passionate about. But
(32:58):
I really truly am worried for manyfirms that are struggling and they don't know
what to do, and that's whyI'm here to help. Yeah. Yeah,
So how do we duplicate you?You know how often I get that
question? Oh? I tell you, honestly, Jeff, it doesn't even
feel like work. I just lovewhat I do and it's just so inspiring.
(33:21):
I had the chief of police fora local city write this amazing testimonial
from my website and he said,you're bringing the human back to into human
resources and I just, oh,my goodness. I just I got kind
of teery when I read it,because that's the stuff I think that we
need to be concentrating on. Wecan just be dazzled by all the EI
and all that sort of stuff.I mean, that's that's cool and all,
(33:44):
but I think we really need tostart out is the basics of kindness,
empathy, trust, collaboration, andmaking sure that you listen to your
employees, that you do those engagementsurveys out there, and that's the way
you're going to be able to dothat the work to move the needle,
and it's it's not easy and ittakes a long time. Yeah, you've
(34:07):
talked a bit about kind of yourprocess. Can you kind of summarize that
again? And so if I havesomebody that wants to work with you,
and you sit down with them,kind of explain how that looks and how
that goes. Oh, certainly.So I create a customized template for each
client based on their needs, Likeif it's a hospital, it's going to
(34:27):
be vastly different than a nonprofit.And then what I generally recommend is that
we need to learn with the painpoints, not only from the executive side,
but from the employee side. Andeither focus groups, which can be
very telling. I had a hightech scientific company in the Bay Area that
hired me to do a focused groupin environment, and my goodness, it
(34:50):
was such an eye opening experience thateighty percent of them said that HR was
either non existent or not helpful.And I told the CEO, you've got
to put more money into your hrsider. You're going to continue to have
some of the best scientists in theworld that come work for you leave,
So we've got to learn what's happening. Then we have to develop a plan
(35:12):
of action where we identify, let'ssay, the four top points of issues
that are going on, and thenwe work with the teams and work with
the CEOs and executives to formulate astrategy. And I also would have suggest
that they incorporate a couple of employeeson that too, because you don't want
it just to be a top downexperience. It's got to be a collaborative
(35:32):
and then an execution strategy of howto develop an enhance culture with actionable items.
Don't You don't want to do everythingall at once. We'll get nothing
done, but maybe like three orfour or five key elements you're trying to
change and then reassess within a yearto see if if you've improved. You
(35:53):
mentioned that it's not a quick fix. You said, yeah, we're going
to reevaluate a year or so.Take you know, and I know each
situation is going to be a littledifferent, right YEA, Some are worse
than others. So on an average, if I'm looking at this, let's
say my culture is not super supertoxic, super bad. I mean,
(36:17):
what kind I expect as an employer, you know, to really change this,
to get this paradigm shift and really, you know, change my culture.
That's a really good question, Jeff. I think it depends on how
bad it is. And so ifit's let's say it's a it's a good
not great environment. You know,it could take a few months to make
(36:39):
things dramatically better, but it reallytakes a concentrated effort and even the CEO
to walk around and talk to peopleand tell me what's going on. I'm
you know, I loved it whenI was working for employers when the CEOs
would contact me directly and say,Aaron, what's the scoop? Tell me
what's going on, so that theycould or we're where. The higher you
(37:00):
are are up in the hierarchy,the less you know about what the true
nature is. And also being atuned to the rumor mill and the things
that you're hearing like oh, Isee that you know this person is not
performing that well. I'm hearing thatwould and then getting to the root of
that and making sure you talked toall levels of the organization and treat them
with kindness and respect, because you'llyou know, you've got people at our
(37:23):
frontline receptionist right out of college oryou know, right out of high school
or something. They might have someamazing ideas that would benefit the organization.
Yeah. Yeah, you know it'sfunny. I I can tell too when
I walk into a business or areyou in a restaurant, right, what
(37:44):
kind of culture there is? What'sgoing on there just from the person that
greets me. Yep, yeah,they're they're kind of the face they emulate
what's really going on. Yeah,yeah, U. So I again,
I'm looking through your presentation, soI'm on one of the final slides that
(38:08):
says workplace culture key takeaways, andI'll just read these off real quick.
Measure investing your people, training,mentor staff. Protect your staff from toxic,
uncivil behavior, established clear expectations.That's good, right, There has
(38:29):
to be some accountability there. Letgo of staff who cause friction. Oh
I don't want to come back tothat one for a second. Okay,
but I'm finished this. Protect yourculture and talk to your employees. Hire
experts who can help, like Aaronan action planet works. I want to
go back to this middle one here, established clear expectations, let go of
(38:51):
staff who cause friction. I'm notan HR manager, I am an amount
position. I don't want to letpeople go. Yeah, okay, so
I'm kind of nervous about that.You know, In all the years I've
been doing this, I think backon it, there's only a couple that
(39:15):
I really felt like, oh,yeah, we're we gotta let him go,
and then the other it was reallya struggle. I just didn't want
to do it. So is thatkind of part of the problem too.
Yeah. I think the other problemthat I see is that I had one
CEO that was very reticent to letgo of a truly toxic executive, and
(39:37):
I cautioned him that if he didn'tdo that that there could be ripple effects
later. And you know, afew months left to the fact, he
called me and says, Aaron,you were right, you should have done
it. So and I think whathappens is is that we look for the
good in people, which is whichis good. There's nothing wrong with that.
(39:57):
But from the HR lens, wewe tend to see seven steps down
the road about what's going to happen. And we want to help people.
We want to get them on board, identify their behavioral issues, and get
them better. But once we're atthe final stretch, sometimes you as an
executive or CEO need need to makea hard call. And if it's if
(40:19):
it's to protect the employees versus protectthe culture. You know, culture wins
because the rest of your staff.I've I've even seen people like like in
Tears of Joy when the most awfulemployee finally is no longer there. And
so you know, you owe itto the rest of the staff that are
(40:39):
they're struggling and hurting and maybe they'rebeing There's a lot of bullying you know,
going on in cultures too, andyou owe it to them to protect
them. Yeah, I really likethat culture wins. That's a good one.
I'm going to write that one down. That's a good culture. One
(40:59):
of my favorite closes is what isthe culture eats policy for lunch? I
mean, you can try to createall the policies you want, this is
what we're gonna do, and we'renever just like, yeah, that's a
good one too. I'm sure yougot a lot of them, and you
know, Jeff, here's another thingI found in my research for this speech.
(41:22):
There is actually a template of atoxic employee, and I didn't know
yet. And what I found inthe literature is that these toxic people tend
to be overconfident, self centered,productive, and rule following, so that
combination and I was really surprised.I didn't expect that combination. Those types
(41:45):
of employees were more likely to betoxic. But it makes sense because a
lot of times the super productive,the ones that bring in all the all
of the clients, who dazzle anddo amazing work, but they are just
awful to deal with. They're hardto let go because you're you're afraid of
losing somebody super productive and they're followingthe rules, but they're making everybody's lives
(42:09):
miserable. So you can see theconundrum with that, right, that's so
funny. I'm sorry I had ofshit and laugh, but I'm actually thinking
a couple of people. I know, we all know those people right in
my own family. Oh my gosh, that's really interesting. I know I
(42:35):
thought it was too. Yeah,they're highly productive and they're rule followers.
Wow, okay, interesting, Ah, this is great. I could go
on and on and we've gotten alittle over there what we normally do.
But I love talking about this andI love talking about it with you.
Oh, I love it too.This has been and honestly, Jeff,
it's been such an honor to beyour keynote speaker for the Sacrament of Executives
(43:00):
Network and then being brought back acouple of weeks later to this. It's
just I love this. Yeah,and I'm grateful that we got connected,
we got introduced, and I'm goingto do a little shout out to missy
Elmore here. Oh she's amazing peoplerock. She's another HR consultant. She
likes the compliance stuff, right.Yeah, that's why she and I make
(43:22):
such a good team with our clientsand when we work together because I used
to send a lot of my clientsto her and then she'll bring me in
on some of the juicy stuff andwe make a good team. Yeah.
That's what makes UM my job.It's fun is having you know, relationships
with people like you and Misty andothers that as an employee benefits consultant.
(43:45):
I can I can walk into abusiness, talk to the c suite and
really be kind of the quarterback right, It's like, Okay, yeah,
I'm an expert in insurance, butI'm also somebody that is very well connected
and I'm here to serve and tohelp. Yep, I'm going to bring
(44:08):
in the air and Shelby's of theworld. If that's the pain point and
that's what you're struggling with, welllet's let's make that phone call. Yeah.
And I think the other two thingI'd love to do, Jeff,
is to humanize the experience, becauseI think it's super important that we're not
there to just hack people's heads off. We're there to really listen and empathize.
(44:34):
And I find that the most fragiletend to be the very top because
they don't have always the network ofpeople that they can go to to vent
and to be nervous with or whatever. That they need a lot of support
as well. I mean that truly, the CEOs and people like yourselves that
are you know, you have somuch to deal with on your plates that
(44:57):
you need a person that you canvent and when you're feeling overwhelmed. That
that's what a good consultant can provideis a good listening opportunity. And also,
you know, leadership enhancement too,because let's face it, we all
have areas that we can improve upon. And finding good coaches and mentors to
help you move the needle to performeven better, that's something I love to
(45:19):
do. Yeah, yeah, Iwrote that down to the human ice.
I'm gonna go back and listen tothis again. But but no, you're
right, and make you make areally great point there. It is lonely
at the top. It's very yeah, and sometimes you feel like you're on
an island. Yes, And it'swhat's frightening is that, especially depending on
(45:42):
them. If you have a multistate company and you have people in all
these different locations, that's what it'ssuper important to do as much as you
can. You know, like whenI would have a CEO that'd be visiting,
I'd create a little cheat sheet.Okay, these are employees names,
there's the pictures, and you knowthis person likes dogs, and this person's
going to Mexico and you know,and so that way, when the CEO
(46:05):
arrived, they would they would actuallyhave like, Oh, how's it going,
George. I hear you're going tobe going to Mexico next week?
Where are you going in Mexico?All those kinds of things to humanize the
employees' perceptions of the executive team too, because they're they're nervous, you know.
And when you when the CEO wouldactually go to different locations and walk
(46:27):
around, people were just so excitedbecause they felt like they were getting the
attention that they wanted. And maybethey really feel like they're valued. Yes,
yeah, that you know the leaderscare about them. Yeah. When
I would hear about, let's say, someone who would done their job very
(46:49):
well from I would go back tothem and say, hey, Mary,
I hear you just you just killedit with that client proposal and you stayed
up until two am. I amso impressed, and I want to let
you know the executive team is too. And but the sad thing is that
what I found when I talked toMary about eighty percent of the time,
no one had ever told that toMarry. They didn't. They told it
to me as the HR person.I was like, go tell Mary,
(47:13):
which how much you appreciate her.That's the stuff that executives need to do.
And a robust employee appreciation program whereyou write letters of appreciation and hen
written notes that that in and ofitself is tremendously impactful. Well, man,
it just seems to be a commonsense to me, it is.
(47:35):
I don't know. I mean,we talked about it at the beginning,
you know, before we got on, we were talking about family values and
how we were brought up and howwe were taught. It. Just to
me, this just seems like commonsense. Like I said, it just
should be natural, I think,Jeff truly. I mean, one of
(47:57):
my heroes was my grandmother, whoimmigrated from Holland and came through Ellisile Island,
and she had a really challenging life. And she and I were roommates
for a while when I moved toCalifornia in my twenties, and she would
cook her dishes and I would cleanthe house and stuff, and we we
just bonded. And she had areally rough time. They lived in the
projects, my father lived in subsidizedhousing, and you know, they had
(48:21):
really a rough time. But shewas just so grateful, and I think
about what resonated with her in herlifetime is still true today. It's about
being respectful, it's about being kindto one another, it's asking questions,
it's communicating effectively. I don't thinkshe would be dazzled by all of the
AI stuff and all of the bellsand whistles, and that's still true today.
(48:43):
I think that we're losing focus onthe human side of things, and
we've got we need to go backto that. Yeah, yeah, I
agree with the I hearia. Soyou aren't you said your grandmother a great
grandma, my grandmother, your grandmother. Wow, So I have um on
my mom's side, My great greatgrandma came. Our family came through Ellis
(49:08):
Island from Italy. Oh wow,okay, um. And I went back
to New York several years ago andthey have these plaques with names and I
was able to find some of myrelatives. Oh that's amazing. I'll have
to look when I go back.It was so cool if you have that
opportunity. Yeah, so cool.Um, well this has been fun.
(49:31):
Um. We could spend more timeon this, but I know we usually
only do thirty minutes. But UM, I'm on purpose. I went over
today because, UM, there's justso much stuff. Is there Is there
anything that, um, maybe thatyou want to share our talk about that
I've missed that we should before.Um. We kind of wrapped this up.
(49:52):
I thank you Jeff and truly.It's it's such an honor to be
invited to this forum. I thinkthat I would just encourage, if nothing
else, CEOs get out talk toyour employees, find out what makes them
tick. Ask questions like what's gettingin the way of your success? What
can we do better for you?If they do that, I think that
will move the need a bit moreimportantly, they really do need to invest
(50:15):
on in retention strategies, listening tours, things like that, because if they
don't, they're going to pay dearly. I mean the cost for this kind
of work. They'll they'll get backtwenty fortyfold in better productivity, better customer
service, all of the Yelp reviewsand all that sort of stuff. So
it's it's now, it's more importantnow than it ever has been. So
(50:37):
if somebody wants to engage with you, how do they contact you? Oh?
Well, yeah they can go toand go to my website Shelby hr
Solutions dot com and happy to helpit. And if I'm not able to
help, I'll make sure they getsomebody. Truly remarkable. But yeah,
it's this is honestly, I justlove doing this and helping move the needle.
(51:00):
I had a lieutenant come up tome, you know, about a
month ago, and he pulled measide for this city that I'm working with,
and he said, Aaron, wealready see the changes. You're really
making things better. And I'm went, wow, you know, and just
like five weeks I think at thatpoint, and you know, and that's
the stuff that just makes my heartsaying is that that it's it's really it
(51:22):
just takes some effort and some youknow, and so it's just it's fun.
Yeah. Yeah, Well, weappreciate you making time for us.
Of course, well that we couldget you on so quickly. I know
it was a short notice, butI felt like, hey, we need
(51:42):
to get this out there. Loveit. Yeah. I won't continue to
our conversations, UM, I havesome other thoughts that, um I want
to talk to you about and howwe can get this message out love it.
Yeah. So thank you so muchfor making time, and grateful for
you and what you're doing, andsuper excited to continue our our friendship and
(52:06):
our relationship. I do as well. And Jeff, thank you so much
for helping out with some clients stufftoo. I really appreciate that. And
I'm glad to come back and alsohave other folks that might be of compelling
guests for you to consider too ifyou want to know more. But thank
you so much and behalf of myfirm. It's it's an honor, all
right. You have a great restof your day. Thanks, all right,
(52:29):
we'll talk to you soon. Soundsgreat. Thanks again, take care Bye,
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