BZ's BBS, Tuesday, 3-15-22, w/SCOTT BROWN on his book FACING EVIL, the murder of DANNY OLIVER

Sacramento County Deputy Sheriff SCOTT BROWN spoke about his book "FACING EVIL," the story of Deputy DANNY OLIVER's murder, SCOTT's partner that day in October of 2014, at the hands of a previously-deported embodiment of evil -- and the torturous routes that trauma takes law enforcement officers, in order to find healing.

Episode Transcript

(00:36):
Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, children of all ages. Tonight I
have the distinct pleasure of speaking toDeputy Scott Brown from the Sacramento County Sheriff's
Department, live and direct, righthere in the saloon. Today is Tuesday.

(01:04):
It's March fifteenth, the Year ofOur Lord, twenty twenty two.
Broadcasting live from the SAHR Media Studiostonight, We're going to forego any breaks
except for the occasional SAHR Media notifier. And basically what's going to happen is
we're going to continue until we're done. Now, if that takes fifteen minutes

(01:29):
or a half hour, or anhour or two hours, we'll stop when
Scott Brown is satisfied that his taleis told. So for tonight. Scott
Brown is the co author of thebook Facing Evil, published in late twenty
twenty one, and that's available atAmazon in either paperback or kindle. So

(01:53):
we are tonight going to be speakingto Deputy Scott Brown because he has a
harrowing story to tell experienced first person, which includes every violent situation you could
possibly think of or imagine, everyworst case scenario you could envision for a

(02:15):
law enforcement officer, every trauma,every piece of guilt, every horror,
every nightmare compacted into a few secondsand then strewing out in what I call
the nightly brain theater for now almostall these eight years. So Scott Brown,
welcome and thank you for being heretonight. Sir, thank you for

(02:37):
having me. I really appreciate youhaving on the show to share this story
and talk to your listeners. Wewere talking earlier and I showed you and
this is for the people that listento the show. It should not shock
anybody that I have fourteen pages ofquestions, because that's how I roll,
essentially. But I want to telleverybody up front, I haven't really had

(03:00):
a show like this on. Ispoke to a gentleman about a year ago
named Gary Bush, and he gotinto it. He's down in Southern California.
He was a Southern California law enforcementofficer and he went through a shooting,
had him on the show, andsince then, I haven't really dealt

(03:21):
in issues like this because for methey're a little personal. But for those
who are listening, I want totell you seriously, there's a warning if
you're not because of the temper ofthe times, and whatnot if you're not
in the frame of mind for apresentation like this, particularly as I say,

(03:42):
in light of the Horror show,that this nation and the rest of
the world has become stop right here. And I'm not kidding because, like
life, though, the pain ofthis show is upfront, So you'll have
to endure some discomfort to get tothe end, to get to the point

(04:03):
of it all. And trust me, there is a point, and there
are several. Actually, this isthe story of one law enforcement officer and
host of other law enforcement officers andcivilians around them who came across the embodiment
of evil in the personage of oneman. I won't detail him here,

(04:27):
Scott Brown. I'm going to domy very best tonight not to name him,
because I don't think it's not abouthim. Yeah, we do the
same thing at our house. Weeither refer to him as my wife calls
him, the evil doer. Igot a whole bunch of names for him,
but none of them include his actualname. I should imagine, but

(04:48):
ash, what actually happened is thatthis one man, on October twenty fourth
of twenty fourteen, murdered Sacramento CountySheriff's deputy Danny Oliver, then drove to
a neighborhood or a neighboring county,where he shot and killed Placer County Deputy
sheriff Detective Michael Davis and wounded athird officer, and he ended up seriously

(05:13):
wounding an uninvolved citizen nearby. So, as I said last week and promoting
the show, Scott Brown didn't setout to be an author, but today
now he is. Oh, I'mprobably the most unlikely author you would ever
want to meet. Didn't set outto do this, not at all,
and yet here you are. Andso again I say thank you very kindly

(05:34):
for being here tonight. I Igreatly appreciate it because I have a plan
and it's pretty simple. I'd liketo just kind of start at the start.
And damn, I wish my videowere working on the internet is not
powerful enough to keep the video going, but it's only audio. But I

(05:55):
actually have a copy of your book. It's I've got a little couple of
bookmarks here, and I would Ihighly recommend that if you like what you've
heard tonight, you can find thebook, which is called Facing Evil.
It's on Amazon in paperback. Ihave a paperback version and it's on Kindle
and Scott Brown. Can you thinkof anyplace else that it is? Oh

(06:17):
yeah, there's so. My wifeand I actually have a web page that
has links to all the media we'vedone. Let's talk about that. What
is that? I should have askedyou that that's okay? It's a scottand
Liz Brown dot com just no spacess c O T T A N D
or Scott yeah, Scott and Liz. Yeah. So s c O T

(06:38):
T A N D l I zb R O w N dot com.
And it has links to our bios, all the media that we have done,
a couple other interviews, some podcasts, that kind of thing. There's
actually a forty five minute video froma conference that we attended, my wife
and I speaking, and then there'sa link to the Amazon through there as
well, along with the Danieller Foundationlink how to Love Our Cops, which

(07:00):
my wife is a part of,and then the Spouse's Association which she started,
and then there's a link on theDanny Oliver page as well to buy
the book. That's actually where Irecommend get it because they actually get some
of the proceeds if you buy itfrom the Danny Oliver page. Okay,
all right, good, thank you. Good to know tonight. Like I

(07:24):
say, I just want to startat the start, ask some questions along
the way, guide if I can, and if you take it away and
run with the ball, oh well, so be it. Because it's your
story is to tell and I'm justhere to kind of set the stage.
And as far as I'm concerned,the lessons involved tonight in your incident are

(07:46):
life's largest. So with luck,I went, as I indicated to you
earlier, before we started the show, I went to every office her Facebook
page that I could envision to tryto see if I could get as many
people well to listen to the showpossible. And I want to make sure
that it's accessible to everybody listening.So because a number of the people that

(08:09):
listen to my show are not officers, I'm trying to I will try my
very level best to reduce the jargonso that people understand the thrust of what
it is that we're saying, sothe people, if nothing else, people
can understand the nature of true evil. I did a show probably about three

(08:33):
months now ago, where I hadthree pastors on and a former pastor and
an individual locally that I wanted toget on that brushed me off that I
was very disappointed in, and wejust talked about the nature of evil and
for those of who don't believe thatevil exists, evil exists, it does.

(08:56):
And that's kind of how we cameup with the title for it as
well, is because even before wecame up with the book idea, we
always refer to him as as justI mean, the guy is just evil.
And I've been I'm coming up onin another month or so, my
twenty year mark with the Department,and I mean I've you know, worked

(09:16):
a lot of areas, worked alot of jobs, have rested a lot
of people, and done quite alot of, you know, quite a
few things. And during that time, I can honestly say that of the
people that I've arrested, of thethings that I've done, very few of
them I would consider evil. Right, There's people that there's idiots, there's
people that do dumb stuff. There'speople that are in a bad way,

(09:39):
right, There's people that make baddecisions, there's people that do evil things.
But I believe that, you know, you know, I'm an optimist
a little bit that I believe thatthat they didn't get there on their own,
and that they can probably, youknow, change a little bit if
the right circumstances applied themselves. Withhim, I don't believe that. I

(10:03):
believe that that man is evil,and that's what he has in his heart,
and that's what he will continue tohave in his heart until the day
that he dies. And I believethat day it was one of the few
times in my career that I cameacross somebody that is just genuinely evil.

(10:24):
My mother in law, before shepassed away of pancreatic cancer in three months
right after I met her, saidgave to me a sentence that I remember
to this day, and she said, treat my wife well. And the
other thing she said was, youknow, sometimes people are put on this
planet simply to be illustrations of whatnot to do. Yep, yep.

(10:46):
I think that's very accurate, andI think we're going to try to be
as kind as we can tonight.But in totality, at the conclusion of
the show, I think everyone herewill have a very good inkling as to
what the nature of evil is andwhat it looks like the true nature of
humanity, which, by the way, can prevail over evil because ultimately,

(11:11):
in my opinion, this whole storyis a story of good triumphing over evil.
And as I'm going to say atthe end, throughout this entire book,
Scott Brown, there were five sentenceswhich may or may not surprise you,

(11:31):
which summarized to me this entire book. And that's eventually where I want
to go and what I want toend with. Now that said Scott Brown,
if you can't tell us just alittle bit about yourself, your background,
your education, what made you wantto become a member of law enforcement
in California. Well, it's actuallykind of a, I guess, funny

(11:54):
story. You know, there's thoseguys out there that wanted to be cops
since they were, you know,basically conceived, right they that's all they
ever wanted to do. Or itwas a family thing, right they had
a dad or somebody in law enforcement. Exactly. I did not have that.
I didn't come from that, andthat wasn't a thought in my head.
I was raised around here, youknow, student athlete kind of thing,

(12:16):
got a scholarship to go play footballat sax State, went to sax
State and got my degree in psychology, played football there, finished up and
had no idea what I wanted todo with my life. I was bartending
at Applebee's and with a degree,and hey, totally clueless. That's when
you know sax State's a big criminaljustice program. A couple of my football
buddies were, you know, Iwas hanging out with them in one night

(12:37):
and the hey, have you everthought about, you know, law enforcement
becoming a cop? Told them thatit hadn't even dawned on me. And
they were a couple of them werein the academy at the time, and
they started, you know, preachingit up right. Hey, you get
to drive fast, carry a gun, wrestle fight, you know, blah
blah blah blah blah, all thisgood stuff. And I'm like, well,
hell I love all that stuff.Why not? And you know,

(12:58):
lo and behind, I did absolutelyno research whatsoever. I'll be honest.
I didn't look into various departments,didn't see which one had a better rep
or anything like that. Just randomlysomehow fell it because I think that's where
they were going. All right,I'll try, you know, fill out
application for the shriff's apartment. Okay, so this is interesting now, you
didn't try sack Med or anybody elsefirst. Nope, really didn't try that.

(13:22):
Didn't try a single one, andwe were I didn't even know which
one. I didn't know they hadmore than one academy. I didn't know
they had a day Day one,Affiliated day one and then an extended Night
one. I didn't know they evenhad two when I filled it out.
Apparently I was filling it out forthe Extended Night Academy, which I didn't
know. You found out. Ifound out because that's the one I got

(13:43):
into. I filled out the application, and I guess they were desperate or
something, because I went in andin the course of about two weeks I
did the physical, the written,and the oral all in two weeks time.
And about three weeks after that,I was sitting in a classroom because
I think they were trying to fillbodies. I don't know, desperate beats

(14:03):
me. But once I was in, I was still finishing up I think
one last class form my degree.And I was in there and my mom.
It was funny. My mom wasthe one that said, I think
you've found what you need, whatyou're going to be doing. I'm all,
why is that She's all because you'restudying on purpose. Because I was
that one that I mean, yeah, I mean my my brother and sister

(14:26):
very studious, very smart, youknow, all a's kind of thing.
I got mostly bees and that wasmostly at the pushing and prodding of my
parents, keeping me, you know, active in what I needed to do.
And uh, I was actually doingit on purpose, right, I
wanted to do well. I was, you know, and I loved it.
I some people didn't like academy.I thought it was awesome. I
just finished college, just finished collegesports. I was in shape. I

(14:48):
was still in the studying mode.I thought the academics were fairly easy for
the most part, you know,like I said, the running, the
jumping, shooting, I'd been doingall that stuff my whole life. Uh,
you know, ended up near thetop half academically. I think it
was like top twelve or something likethat. I was the top gun in
my class, so I shot betterthan everybody else. I don't know what.
I don't know. I don't knowwhat that says about my class.

(15:09):
When when was your class? Whatyear was that? I graduated O two?
So I started in one and endedin O two. Okay, were
you do you remember me at theacademy at the graduation, was I range

(15:30):
master? Yes, I believe youwere. Okay, did I hand you
a certificate? Well, you hada certificate if you've got top gun.
Yeah, that's bizarre. I verywell may have given that out to you.
Yeah that's okay. Yeah, that'sa little bizarre. Yeah. And
so I did that and finished up, and I you know, took me

(15:50):
about They were doing our patrol firstwhere you go straight from the academy out
to the street while you're still inprobation so they can fire you if you
don't pass. Went straight from youknow, growing up in far Oaks to
a patrol car in South Sack.Made me realize that I learned absolutely nothing
in the academy. It was theyou know, you learn the basics and

(16:11):
you think you know everything, andas soon as you're sitting in a car
you realize, I don't know nothing, right, you know, first call
out of the gate was it wasa rape call. I think it was
a twelve year old rape for likea six year old, and then went
straight from there to a double homicide. And I remember going home from my
first day of training and like,what the hell is going on right,
what did I get my uh yeah, and then you know, obviously I

(16:34):
stuck with it because twenty years later, here I am, and you know,
typical assignments. Did pass my patrolfirst, obviously, I went to
the jail, did about three anda half there. My first stint,
became a jail training officer cert team, did part of the gang intel thing.
Just keep him busy, right,taking any class they'll give me,
rollty. I rotated out to patrol, did about roughly four years out there,

(16:56):
and then the you know, thebudget of nine and everything went to
crap. Oh that's right, youwent through that. I did pair shaped
and so, oh my god.When that happened, I was rotated back
to the jail for a year anda half, which sucked, but I
couldn't complain, right, people aregetting fired, so I kept my mouth
shut and head down. And forthose who don't know, the Sacramento Sheriff's

(17:18):
Department is in the capital of California, which is Sacramento. Most most people
know that that have been listening tothe show. What you may not know
is that in two thousand and eight, when the crash occurred, Sacramento County
lost had to let go. I'mtrying to remember anywhere between one hundred and

(17:41):
eighty to close to two hundred deputies. It was hundred, I believe it
was in one hundred and seventy range. And it was the Latin The most
recent hired were the first fired.So the brand new kids that we'd just
gotten on the department. We're nottalking five or ten. We're talking almost

(18:03):
multiple hundreds, and from what Iunderstand, most of them eventually, over
time spend we're able to get hiredback the ones that didn't end up going
to other agencies, that kind ofthing. So yeah, So I did
a year and a half in thejail, kept busy again, came back
out to patrol. Did all mypatrol time was on graveyards, which was
ten at night till eight in themorning. And I loved it. You

(18:23):
know, nobody not as many adminout. You know, it was dark,
and anybody out doing anything after likeyou know, eleven o'clock twelve o'clock
at night on a weekdays probably doingsomething wrong. So and you got to
dig and I got to dig andchase and nobody called it off kind of
thing, self initiated activity. Yep, loved it. Yeah, and I
was. That was my thing.Man. I love doing proactive stuff,
stops and all that thing. Becamea field training officer out there on Graveyard.

(18:49):
That's where I met Danny and awhole crew that we all worked together,
became good friends, and then heended up. He was the one
that convinced me to go to thePOP Team, which is our problem more
and policing team. When people askme what that is, I say,
for us, it's the Swiss ArmyKnife of the department. We did a
little bit of everything. We wouldbe extra bodies for our SWAT team for

(19:11):
detectives if they were hitting a house. We would do community events where we
would do barbecues. We did ourown undercover stuff. We did John stings
and Rubin tugs and some buy buststuff like that. We would do high
impact sweeps. Our six man teamwhen I was on it was averaging anywhere
from fifty to seventy felony arrests amonth. And so now that was back
when things were still felonies in California. Right, Well, that's a story

(19:33):
end to itself. Yeah, whenyou were doing that, though your POP
team was in the North area orwere there a couple of POP teams.
Were you North through your South?I don't recaly I was North? Yeah,
there was. There was our sixman team was North, and then
they had two transient enforcement detail guysthat we worked with occasionally, and then
South had their own POP team.I want to say it was smaller though,
it was like a three or fourman team with no homeless team.

(19:57):
The homeless guys kind of went everywhere. So the cool thing about all that,
folks, is you have a smallunit and intimate unit where everybody knows
each other. You get to thepoint where you know how each individual is
going to react in a given situation, and they become not just good people
to work with, they become yourfriends. Yeah, I mean we were.

(20:18):
We were friends before I joined thatteam. You know, there was
a group of us. We'd go, you know, to Reno together and
you know, go have a goodtime and we went, you know that
kind of thing. And then oncewe started pirate partnering up. I mean,
you know, we were with thesame person for twelve hours a day.
Yep. You know, you yoursafety, your life is in that
person's hands, right, I meanyou're there literally when you're they're pointing one

(20:40):
direction, you're pointing the other oneto make sure that nothing happens to them
kind of thing. You know.I helped them move, I helped them.
You know, we went on vacationstogether. We were you know,
my kids called him uncle Danny.Our wives were friends, you know that
kind of stuff. And we reallygot to know each other very well.
I mean during those john stings wherewe're are you know, we're we're doing

(21:00):
our stuff and we're on surveillance.I mean, you're sitting in a van
with a guy for sixteen hours,You're going to talk about I got to
talk about something, Yeah, Andyou know, I know a lot of
guys don't usually get personal, butwhen you're with somebody that long, you
know, you learn about family,you learn about what they're worried about,
and that kind of thing. Soyou get to know him pretty well.
Folks were talking tonight to Deputy ScottBrown of the Sacramonta County Sheriff's Department,

(21:22):
and he has co written or writtena book entitled Facing Evil. It's the
story of the on duty murder ofhis partner, Danny Oliver and the subsequent
murder of Placterck County Sheriff's detective MichaelDavis. You can find Brown's book Facing
Evil on Amazon, in paperback oron kindle. So, Scott Brown,

(21:48):
your assignment on that one particular day, October twenty fourth of twenty fourteen was
in pop problem oriented policing. Youtold us what that was. And on
that day, October twenty fourth,what were you guys doing? When did
you start your shift? So thatparticular day actually started a little early because

(22:08):
the night before we got in acall from parole asking for our help.
They wanted to go to a housethat one of their probation officers had gone
there for a probation check and hadgotten basically forced out by the homeowners.
And they wanted extra bodies because theywere going to go violate this person's parole
probation. And it was not anice not a nice neighborhood. It was

(22:30):
one where you don't go to unlessyou got a couple of cars and a
couple of people kind of thing.And so we went there with them,
and we so we got there early, I think it was six that morning,
you know, got all possied up, got our geared ready, went
over and met the probation agents overoff of Orange Grove, talked with them,
went to the house, you know, got the door in and went

(22:52):
in and arrested the probationer ended uptaking her to jail. They needed somebody
transports, so we said, Iwill transport because I had a warrant to
drop off for some meth that we'dgotten off a guy earlier, but he
had to let him go for medicalreasons. So I volunteered because it's down
by the DA's office, and youknow, two birds one stone kind of
thing, why not, So wetransported her down there. While we were

(23:14):
there, got a call from thepeople on scene, Hey, can you
add booker for animal cruelty because therewere some dogs in the back, some
pities that were just emaciated and youknow, obviously not treated well. So
we add booked her for that,added added some charges, talked with the
booking crew for a while, andthen we took off, went to the
DA's office. And one of theone of the many reason things I kicked

(23:36):
myself for later, not that youcan do anything about it, because I
didn't have twenty twenty vision at thattime, right, I didn't know the
future. But instead of walking itthrough, which means you go through the
entire process. These are for thepeople who don't know. You know.
You wait for the DA to signoff it, then you walk across the
street to the judge, you gethim to sign it, and then you
go downstairs get it put in thesystem. It takes the whole thing would

(23:56):
take a couple hours at least,right, they said, oh, you
want to it off or you wantto walk it through. If you drop
it off, they call you whenit's ready, and you go down whenever
you feel like it later, andyou know, you kind of do it
in piecemeal basis. I'm like,yeah, we'll just drop it off.
We want to we want to godo other stuff. Right, So we
dropped it off and headed out,and on our way back, we're heading
down and we're going Business eighty throughSacramento and we're coming up on Arden Way

(24:18):
and I remember Danny looking at meand saying, you know, all he
said was Motel six And I said, yeah, well it's not even there
anymore. But the Motel six thatEthan and Arden was a that was a
shithole. Oh yeah, it wasa dump. Yeah, it always had
been. And it was one ofthose places we'd been to multiple times because
we knew that we'd probably find somethingdirty there, whether it was a gun,

(24:38):
whether it was dope, whether itwas a hole if you if you
mined it once, you'd mind itagain. Yeah. Yeah, it was
one of those things. I meanwe just practically drive with the back door
open, and somebody would fall inwith a charge, right and without even
working real hard. So we're youknow, we were looking for an arrest
after helping out probation, so we'relike, all right, let's go there.
Danny always drove because he was hewas used to be an evoc instructor,

(25:00):
so he drove like a maniac andcame inches from bumpers but never hit
anybody. I thought it was amiracle. But Danny was also built different
than me. He was shorter andof the rounder persuasion. I mean,
he'd actually lost a ton of weightright before he was killed doing CrossFit with
his daughter. He was actually gettingin pretty good shape, strong as an
oxtion, but not the fastest guyin the world. And I was a
little bit taller, a little leaner, so you know, I was a

(25:22):
good passenger. I was to getout and run guy, and he would
drive me close and that kind ofthing, and it worked out really well.
Perfect. Plus I hated daytime traffic. It drove me nuts after working
graveyards all those years and not havingto worry about cars as much I would.
I mean, if I drove,my blood pressure went up and I
was screaming at people and flex ofenamel coming off your teeth. Yeah,
So it was just easier to lethim do it. So we pulled into
the parking lot and we're driving,you know, just looking for people doing

(25:47):
bad stuff. Right, ran aplate that we thought was related to something
we dealt with earlier. So I'mlooking on the computer, kind of running
up the registered owner, you know, trying to decide whether it was relating
if we were going to go findout what room they were in, that
kind of thing. And he's continuingaround and on this back side of the
hotel, no cameras, no security, there's the rooms and then a pretty

(26:11):
good gap and then a cinder blockwall that separated the hotel from the theaters
that used to be there. Ohyeah, you're right. I had forgotten
about that wall. Yep. Atthe Century Yep. It's about a I
don't know, ten foot cinder blockwall and that was where most of the
dirt occurred because it was out ofsight from the road. It was secluded.
You could park back there, andso that's where a lot of people

(26:33):
did their dirt. So, youknow, we're we're round in the corner
and Danny puts the car in parkand he says, there's two in the
car, and I'd work with himlong enough, done plenty of stops that,
you know, And I'm looking atthe computer at the time. So
I look up and I see thecar and it's a Mercury Marquee, and
the trunk's open, and he's alreadyout, kind of walking towards the car.
So I jump out, and I'mheading to the passenger side right as

(26:55):
we do, you know, sideby side approach, because if there's two
in the car, you got toassume they're not both on the driver's and
I couldn't see the other person,so I kind of assume passing your side,
and because I can't see him,I kind of take a wide and
a wide berth getting around so Ican view the side of the car.
And I'm as I get around there, I see a female standing by the
back passing your door, and Istart approaching her and I'm, hey,

(27:17):
I'm trying to get her attention,right, hey, turn around and I'm
I'm I say it a couple oftimes and she's like, I mean,
she is zoned out just right onDanny. And finally I get her to
turn around, and as she turnsaround, her hand goes on the trunk
and she shuts it and my mind, you know, red flashes go off.
I'm like, okay, exactly,once we get this situation taken care

(27:38):
of, we're going to get inthis car because there's something in that trunk.
There's a reason for that. Anduh, she's got this look on
her face and I now I knowwhat it is, but at the time
I couldn't figure out like it wasit was, but it was off.
Something was something was off, andI'm like, okay, we need to
I need to keep her, youknow, so I'm focused on her.
Obviously, danaged to put her inthe driver's side and I'm all and she

(27:59):
was fairly good sized girl, andthe way she was standing in the door,
I told her, I'm all sitdown, sit, not not filliping
her legs in there, but kindof sit on the edge of the seat
right, keep your hands where Ican see him, and as soon as
her butt hit that seat, Iheard about six seven shots come out from
the driver's side of the door.And I'm standing basically at the back passenger
door at this point. Immediately,of course, I divert my eyes over

(28:23):
to that area and I don't seeI don't see anything, And that was
disturbing because Danny wasn't the tallest guyin the world. But I should have
seen that. You should I shouldhave seen him stand roof over the roof,
yes, and I didn't see him. And of course, all this
is happening in the matter of like, I mean, microseconds, right,
So I'm starting to back up,draw my gun, completely ignore her now,

(28:45):
I mean I'm not even looking ather. Turns out that that she
could have she had a gun inher person. She could have pulled it
out and got me, and Iwould have never seen it coming because I
was so focused on right where theshots were coming from, which I knew
wasn't her because I was watching her. So I back up a little bit.
And as I'm backing up, that'swhen the suspect popped up from the

(29:07):
driver's side and leveled his nine milimeterat me over the top of the car.
I'm kind of near the back taillight at this point, and he
starts capping off rounds at me,and I remember here in the first one,
and then I didn't hear anything afterthat, not a sound. I
knew he was still shooting because Icould see the muzzle flash and I could
literally feel the bullets going by myneck, my ears. I mean he

(29:29):
was missing my head by I don'tknow, but I could feel the bullets
going by me, so it wasn'tby much. And I'm a barely decent
sized target. I mean I'm sixtwo about two forty at the time,
and we weren't very far away,so how he missed me, it was
a miracle. I remember in thebook that he said something similar to that
guy meaning you was dancing around allover the place, which was funny in

(29:56):
it and not funny, but Ican't think of a better word for it.
Was if you'd asked me, Ihad to bet you an entire paycheck
that I was standing planted in theground without being able to move and returning
fire at him, and that Iwas planted, I wasn't moving. But
apparently you know that range training whereyou shoo shoot move paid off because I

(30:17):
was moving and didn't even know it. Ye. So yeah, So eventually,
obviously I get my gun drawn,I start returning fire. He ducks
down. Because of where I'm out, I can't see him anymore. So
I start feeding rounds through the backwindow to where I believe that he is
duck down to, you know,trying to get to that driver's side area.
And this is where that whole slowmotion thing kicked in. I remember

(30:40):
watching the first I mean, Ican't say I can see the bullet itself,
but I remember watching the first onehit the back window and I could
see the splinter, and then Icould see each round I shot six I
ended up shooting sixteen rounds, andeach one of them I could see the
impact as it hit the window,the back window, and it was it
was a good grouping, you know. Later, after I'd calmed down stuff,

(31:00):
I could actually feel kind of,you know, proud of myself for
being able to get it that close. Unfortunately, every single round except for
one, got sucked up by thecar, the pillar, the seat,
you know, all the metal init. They were all where I wanted
him go, but they all gotsucked up. One made it through.
I didn't know it at the time, but one made it through and got
him in the hand, which turnedout good for the trial part of it,

(31:22):
because he ended up bleeding over allthe other scenes that he went to
after the fact DNA. So aftersixteen rounds, I decide, okay,
I'm gonna reevaluate and start side steppingright slicing the pie. See where Danny
is. See where he's at.Maybe I hit him, Maybe I didn't.
Right at this point, I didn'tknow. Take about one step to

(31:42):
the left to come around on thedriver's side, and I see the front
post of an AR come up fromwhere he was where he went down.
I recognized it immediately because it's,you know, the same kind of a
frame that I had on my AR, which unfortunately was in the trunk of
our car, which was way toofar away and at a bad angle for
me to even get to. Mine. Kicked into overdrive at that point of

(32:05):
a you know, I only gota few rounds left in my handgun.
I'm in the middle of a parkinglot with no cover and wearing a vest
that doesn't stop rifle rounds. SoI beat feet. I don't know.
Seven eight cars to the east,get behind one of the tires, because
I remember, you know, goingto the range and them saying the best
spot is behind the wheels because they'rethick enough they might actually stop some rounds.

(32:28):
And normst rounds go through trunks,especially rifle rounds would go through a
trunk, and that like it wasmade out of toilet paper. So I
didn't want to hide right behind thetrunk. And I remember thinking this all
within you know seconds, right,blurted out some radio traffic, you know
the shoot, you know, shotsfired, officer down, you know Motel
six, you know, it's allreal quick stuff. And I remember while

(32:52):
I was doing that, I rememberhearing a single shot from over by the
car, and immediately, in myhead, I started screaming because I'd watched
enough training videos where the suspect shotan officer and then walked up on him
and finished him off. And inmy mind, that's exactly what happened.
Forensically down the road, we don'tknow where that shot was or what it

(33:12):
was. It wasn't what I thoughtit was because Danny was already dead at
that point, but in my mind, that's what happened. And I remember
whether I screamed out loud or tomyself. I have no idea, but
I remember thinking, oh fuck,he just executed Danny. He just executed
Danny. Then survival instinct kicked inand realized that I had a guy out
there with a gun and I didn'tknow where he was at, and he

(33:35):
could be coming around on me.Been at that hotel a million times.
So I developed a little game planof how I was going to come back
around on him. Now, Iwas going to go into the interior,
come around through the interior, andthen there was an opening just passed where
he was parked, and to giveme a good shot at the driver's side
area, that kind of thing.To do that, I had to breeze
or run past a breezeway or openingto get into where I wanted to go

(34:00):
to get around on him. Andas I did that, I was looking
down to where the car was andI see it start to back up.
Immediately decided to change my game planbecause I didn't want him to get away.
So I started running down the walkwaytowards the car. As it backed
up and then started to pull forward, it bumped like it went over a
curb. Unfortunately, I knew therewas no curbs there, and I knew

(34:23):
he'd run over Danny, and mymind kind of I short circuited a little
bit, and I'm really a littlepissed at myself. But my goal was
to feed some rounds into that car, and I didn't get him off because
when I saw that happen last itput a pause button on me for a

(34:45):
second. And then last thing youwould expect. Yeah, and then once
I recomposed myself, I mean,he was around the corner and I didn't
see the car again as it roundedthe corner. I remember, I distinctly
remember thinking he's gone. He's goingto get away. We're never going to
see him again, and it's goingto be another unsolved shooting. Like Mitchell.

(35:05):
Yep. That's when when you stoppedthere. At that point, I
thought, Jeff Mitchell, yep,And do you want to talk about that
briefly or yeah, so so too. Hey, I can talk about it
so briefly. Jeff Mitchell years before, was one of our deputies working in
our South area, came across toa van that most likely was a body

(35:29):
dump type situation. It was beforein car cameras and a couple other things.
The terrible timing for that house,sad he keyed his radio. They
did a check on him. Whenthey got out there, they found him
looks like he'd been at a tussleand ended up getting shot with his own
gun. And to this day,the suspects are still outstanding. Yeah,
no suspects. A lot of rumorsthis, that and the other thing.

(35:52):
And that was what I believed wasgoing to happen with this, and I
hadn't even seen any yet, right, So I continue running around the last
car, and that's when I firstfinally saw Danny land there, gun still
in his holster and he had agun shot into his head. Folks,

(36:13):
are you beginning to understand the depthand the breadth of evil involved here,
because that's the extent that evil willgo to and it gets He didn't.
And that's only a fraction of thatguy's day too. Oh yes, it

(36:35):
continued, Yeah, by a lot. And I'd seen enough people, you
know, whether it's self influcted orthrough a shooting, you know, with
with injuries like Danny's, and youknow, and what I saw, which
I'm not going to go into detailright now, I knew he was gone.
It wasn't a question. I knewinstantly. Of course, you know,

(36:58):
you still do what you can.I don't know it's for yourself or
it's for the people watching, butyou know, went down, checked for
pulse, that kind of thing.I remember hearing a scream from the one
of the balconies, and I rememberturning and yelling at people to go inside,
but not to go anywhere, andgot you know, started getting some
more radio traffic out there because Iknew this guy was out there and I
didn't want anybody else to get hurt, to which I would suggest that's remarkable

(37:25):
composure. And I even doubted myselfbased on the way the rest of the
day went, whether I had donethat, and and I'll get back to
it. But the beauty of thosecritical instant debriefings that they do after these
kind of things was I was ableto talk with our dispatcher who said,
I did get it out and hedid repeat it, which for the guilt

(37:49):
that I was feeling, beautiful wasa tremendous, a tremendous thing for him
to say to me, and andmade was to somebody that felt like they
had the entire universe on their shoulders. It was one less weight that I
was bearing after he said that,which was huge for me. So I'll
briefly, I'll kind of go withwhat he did the rest of the day,

(38:10):
and then we can kind of goback to how they dealt with me
and the rest of my my,my stuff after that. But so the
suspect from there, and I'll kindof go through these because I wasn't personally
involved, but I'll tell you whatI know. So he left where I
was at, you know, tearingass out of there. He was bleeding
all over the place, he hadholes in his car, realized he had
to get rid of his car.So he goes and I want to say

(38:32):
it was only a little over amile down the road to a court.
It wasn't far. Unfortunately, comesacross and I'm not going to use his
name because I didn't get permission inthe book and I'm not going to use
it now. But he comes across. The civilian who's waiting for a doctor's
appointment, walks up to him andsays, give me your car. And
this particular civilian had been around theblock of time or two very street wise.

(38:54):
It was very street wise, andhe basically looked at him and said,
I don't know you giving you mycar? Well brought the bad guy
basically smirked, grinned, and thenshot him six times, six times,
I believe several. And he puthis arm up, so he got some
of them the arms, some ofthem in his faith. And then he

(39:15):
walked away from him, and helived by the way, and I've actually
had a good conversation with him sincethen. Oh, his victim, his
victim. Yeah, we actually endOh yeah, it was. It was
beautiful. But him and I hada good conversation over the phone once because
I wanted to meet him and whatnot. But so he went from him and

(39:36):
went across the court and a younglady that was going to the gym or
getting back now I can't remember,puts a gun in her back and says,
give me your car, a littleMustang. She, of course,
you know, is traumatized by this, and she obviously, he gets the
car. The suspect's wife helps himtransfer guns into the car. The whole

(39:57):
deal they take off in that theyrealized that, okay, a lot of
people saw us do this, sowe need another car. So they go
into a neighborhood they try to steala car from some landscapers because the car's
out front. You know, hegive me the keys, give me keys,
and they're like, there are bossescars, we don't have keys.
They were lying the keys were actuallyin the cars, but they told him

(40:20):
they didn't have keys. So hetakes off, goes a little further down
the road, contacts another group oflandscapers, demands the car at gunpoint.
They all right, all right,but then they talk to him and convince
him to let him take their traileroff. So that because it's their livelihood,
so he actually helps them remove theirtrailer from the vehicle and then steals
their truck. He tells them notto call, of course they do.

(40:42):
They did, and at that pointthat's when the description of the truck came
out, the license plate whatnot.Well, he was in a tailspin at
this point, didn't know where he'sgoing, got on the freeway. We
was heading up the freeway up eightysees one of the blue alert signs,
you know, the road signs thatCaltrans has right and you know, his
wife actually pointed out and said,hey, that's our car. And so

(41:06):
he drives off the first exit,doesn't even know where he's going. Dives
off up there at Auburn, getsoff plowing through these neighborhoods ends up pulling
over in front of a house.Now, the funny thing about this house
is he happens to pull over infront of the house of a retired CHP
officer that's sitting there drinking coffee.I listening to KFBK who's talking about the

(41:27):
shooting and describing his car right atthat moment. So he of course,
you know, sees what's going onand says, well, you know,
not here, So he calls itin time for a phone call, right
time for a phone call. Theytake off the plate, switch it,
or they take off the license plate, and they take off in the truck.
At this point, Plash Auburn PD, Plaster County. So so everybody's

(41:49):
trying to start and come to thearea because they realize that's where he's at.
Two of their officers end up ashe's trying to carjack a BMW from
in front of a house to switchout from the truck because now they know
that people know what the truck lookslike. He's about to carjack another car,
and that's when Plaster contacts him.Two officers pull up and as I
mean pretty much, they hadn't evenpulled that finished pulling up, and he

(42:10):
starts unloading with the ar on theircar. They both bail out the doors
because they're you know, you're notgoing to sit in the car when somebody's
filling the windshield full of holes.They bail out, didn't quite get it
and park and their car rolls forward, bumps into the truck. He jumps
in it and takes off without hiswife, leaving her in the truck,
and the two officers try to callit out, but where they're at,

(42:32):
the radios suck. It's very hilly, very mountainous up there, and the
radios just didn't work very well,and so that some of the traffic got
out, some of it didn't,some of them got repeated, some of
it didn't. And this is theunfortunate, just tragic part is so Mike
Davis and his partner, a coupleof people were in the area and they
see this patrol cargo flying by.Well they think it's a plaster chasing the

(42:53):
suspect, so they jump in behindit because the way it's driving the figure,
they know where they're going, right, And we've all been we've all
been there. We see a cargo by and we're like, Okay,
I haven't heard anything yet, butthis is gonna be good. So they
jump in behind it. It goesinto a culta sack pulls into a driveway.
Well, they pull into the cultde sack. They see the car
in the driveway, so they arestarting to get out. Well, they
as soon as they get out therestart getting fire on him. They're not

(43:15):
even looking at the patrol car becauseit's a patrol car. They're not looking
at direction initially because they think theythink that somebody is shooting, that the
suspect of shooting, or the officersshooting at the suspect somewhere. By the
time they figured out that it wasthe suspect from the patrol car shooting at
him, Mike Davis took a roundthrough his vest, through the chest and

(43:37):
took out his lungs and most ofthe stuff in between there. And then
another deputy took a ricochet and gotsome shrapnel in his arm hand area.
And then brook or the suspect eventuallytook grabbed a gun out of the patrol
car. The shotgun went down ahill and down into a valley, Mike.

(43:58):
They try to do CPR on thehood of a car as it's driving
up the street to try to gethim to the life flight helicopter. With
the life Light helicopter, they couldn'tput him on there because of the CPR
and there wasn't enough room. Sothey put him in a medic and took
him to the local hospital. Buthe was he was gone before they got
there. That was an amazing storyin and of itself. Yes, yes,

(44:20):
it was, Yes, that workedon Mike Davis, Oh my god.
Yeah, astounding. Yeah. Andthe fact that I mean when he
was he went all the way tothe hospital with him and then you know,
stood by his side because he knewthat we never leave one behind.
It was amazing, right, Itshows, It shows that it doesn't matter
what patch you got on your arm. We're all brothers, man. You

(44:43):
know, it didn't matter that thatone was plastering. He was CHP.
He wasn't leaving him behind, andhe worked his tail off on that guy.
Trust. That story in itself isamazing. That's why you have to
read the book. Yeah, it'sit's it's great. I mean, just
to and obviously I'm hitting just thehighlights right, And then a suspect went
down into a valley, contacted acivilian up and then into a house where

(45:06):
the homeowner saw him. Went outthe one door while he came in the
other one. Rummers to the houselooking for another gun, uh deficate,
you know, took a crap onthe carpet, bled all over the place,
found some lemon Cello, got drankthat as much as he could,
wrote a note to his wife,turned on the gas so that if they
all other officers came in. Hewas hoping to blow everybody up. That

(45:29):
was his goal. Thank god thatdidn't happen, and it actually took a
nap at one point too. Thecivilian that went out called obviously, and
then about every swat team in thearea was around the thing, and every
helicopter in the area was overhead.They pumped enough gas into that house to
kill a small army. And atthat point the suspect eventually came out,

(45:52):
literally crawling on his back and hishands up in the air, not giving
you know, any reason to shoot. And that's the difference between us,
the good guys and the bad guys. Right. As much as I'm sure
somebody would have loved to have youknow, ended the evil day or that
guy right at that moment. Hedidn't give us a reason to. And
no, they did their job,and they did it professionally. And I'm

(46:15):
actually very proud of them for howthey conducted themselves that day, even though
I can imagine you know how hardit was. Right again, remarkable composure,
yes, on your part, oneveryone else's part in incalculable exigent circumstances

(46:37):
packed with irony that day. Yeah, I mean it was, and I
mean several things that I've obviously thoughtabout afterwards. I mean, just listening
to my sergeant at the time talkabout how he drove to the scene,
I can't believe there there wasn't oneaccident, and you know, after driving
around, right, I cannot.I it's unfair would be that there wasn't

(47:00):
one accident with the way people weredriving, either to the scene or every
time it called out we think he'shere, we think he's here. Not
one accident. Oh and there weremultiple scenes, yeah, justin justin Sacramento
County, four different scenes, andnot, like I said, just that
alone I think is a miracle inand of itself, you know, And

(47:21):
but two volumes, I think tothe professional standards to which the people around
in this law enforcement community are trained. Yeah. I mean, between that
and the investigation, I've never beenmore proud of my people than at that
time. I mean I didn't obviouslyregister it at the time, but looking
back on it, I, youknow, very proud of very proud of

(47:43):
how they all did. Folks,I want to remind you of one thing
and then we're going to continue.I said, I'm not going to have
any any promos to but I justwant to remind everybody of this conservative media
done right. You're listening to theshr Media network. And for the people

(48:06):
who are in the chat room,thank you very much for being there.
I see one as Leslie Hulker,she's been there before. And also another
individual called River Spirit. Thank youvery much for being here. Tonight,
folks, we're talking to Deputy ScottBrown of the Sacramento County Sheriff's Department about
his book entitled Facing Evil. It'sthe story of an on duty murder of

(48:28):
his partner, Danny Oliver and thesubsequent murder of Plaster County Sheriff's Detective Michael
Davis. You can find Scott Brown'sbook Facing Evil on Amazon in paperback or
kindle, and I have that websiteup here since you mentioned it. If
you want to go to Scott's website, that of he and his wife Liz,

(48:52):
you can go to Scott and Lizbrowndot com and you can get the
book there. And you all whoindicated that it's you can go to the
Danny Oliver site and purchase it thereas well. Yes, and there's a
link to that at the bottom ofour web pages. Okay, you just
got to click on the symbol.So Scott all one word obviously, Scott

(49:13):
and Liz l I Z Brown dotcom, Scott and Liz Brown dot com.
I mentioned irony, and I justwant to go through this very quickly.
There was a deputy that ended uppulling you away from Danny, and
it was a deputy named Bob Frenchin have what may have been an event

(49:39):
of foreshadowing, I guess itself,because Deputy Bob French was shot and killed
outside of the Ramada Inn in thetwenty six hundred block of Auburn Boulevard in
the same district in which you guyswere operating, district four maybe three miles.

(50:00):
Yeah, if that and that wasmy primary district when I was in
patrol in the eighties, which datesme terribly. And Bob French was conducting
an auto theft investigation at about tenthirty in the morning and he was shot
there. He was age fifty twoand he served for twenty one years.

(50:24):
The other bit of irony, andI may get the years wrong, perhaps
Scott Brown, you can correct me. The day that Placer County Detective Michael
Davis was shot and killed by thisanimal was twenty six years to the day

(50:49):
of Michael Davis's dad, his fatherSenior, dying for the San Bernardino sheriff'ste
riverside overside Sheriff's Department, and hedied that day, if I'm not mistaken
in a helicopter crash. Yes,again, two pieces of bitter irony that

(51:13):
you can't replicate otherwise. And there'sactually another piece that makes it even a
little more ironic creepy. I'm notsure how you want to order it.
Bob French was killed ten years tothe day that his parents died in a
plane crash. I had no idea. Yep. So, folks, we

(51:36):
are speaking to Deputy Scott Brown.You were transported away from the scene.
Basically, that's what happens in anOIS, which is an officer involved shooting.
I worked homicide, so I worksome OIS scenes. So you're transported
away and your work for that sceneessentially ends there. But that's the beginning.

(52:01):
Once you were transported away from thatscene, what then happens? So
a lot of stuff happens. Yeah, Well, first off, I mean
there's two names on this book,right, my name and Vicki's my co

(52:21):
author, but there might as wellbe three. My wife's name should be
on it as well, because andthank you for going there, a lot
of gaps in my memory, andshe remembered so much more than I did,
right, because I could tell youeverything leading up to that scene and
through that scene, and in crystalclear high definition. Right soon as I
left that scene, I could rememberevents in different details, but I would

(52:42):
remember them in the wrong order,or I would be off by a little
bit, because you know, itwas like, you know, short circuited.
I was. I was running onyou know, one hundred thousand percent
up until a certain point, andthen when it all came down, everything
stopped working, right, and thatincludes my memory and my brain and everything
else. Right, I don't evenknow if I could have spelled my name.
By the time I got to ourdetective division, I was so distraught.

(53:07):
First thing I did while I wasin the car was called my wife.
And all I could do was Itried to call her a couple of
times and went went to voicemail,and I used to joke that she screamed
my calls. She'll answer everybody elsein the first ring, but mine for
some reason, right, And uhSo then I text her and all I
text her was I'm okay, andshe got that because she was home with
our three boys. We have threelittle kids at the time, especially we

(53:29):
had two under three and then afive year old, and she was dealing
with all them, right, Soher phone was she was just busy and
she sees it and she realizes,whoa, that's that's not his that's yeah,
that's not a normal So she calledand I couldn't even talk on the
phone. I had to give theto the sergeant detective that was with me,
and he ended up telling her,hey, Scott's okay physically, but

(53:53):
he's going to need you right.So that started the motion of them going
to get her and figuring out whatwas going going on, and she got
herself ready and this is all inthe book. And honestly a lot of
people that have read this thing andbeen like, you know, your story
is great and not great, butyou know, intriguing, I guess.
But I had no idea about thespouse's side of this thing from officers,

(54:16):
especially, like I have no Youknow, people they see movies, right,
and they see documentaries and they readbooks, right, but not a
lot of stuff goes into the spouse'sside of it, the family side of
it. And we did in thisright, because what affects one affects the
other. If you don't think itdoes, you're lying to yourself. Literally
hundreds of people were affected by thisanimal. Yeah. I mean, I'm

(54:39):
still finding people that remember it tothis day. They remember seeing the news,
I mean the trial. I remembertalking to people and we'll get to
that a little bit, but youknow, I mean throwing stuff at their
TV right because they were so madat his antics. And when I bring
it up, when I start talking, they're like, you're that guy.
I'm like, yeah, I'm thatguy. So anyway, so I call
my wife, get her going.They take me the detective Division. You

(55:01):
know, They put me in aroom, asked me if I'm hurt,
and all of a sudden, Iwas like, well, I know he
shot at me, and I've heardthat you can get hurt with not knowing
it because of adrenaline all this otherstuff. I'm like, so I kind
of did that. You know whenyou ask a dog if he wants to
go for a walk and he doesthe head tilt. I kind of liken

(55:21):
it to that, and I'm like, I don't know. I think I'm
okay, And so I peeled mytac best and kind of did a you
know, a check over with myhands looking for blood, and didn't come
up with any. And my wifegot there chaplains. They asked if I
want to chaplain? I said,you know, maybe somebody from my church.
So they called the church, gotsomebody there. People were checking in

(55:45):
on me CSI showed up, endedup. I had to put all my
stuff back on to photograph me becausethey wanted, you know, how I
was at the scene right, sohe couldn't do that whole I didn't know
he was a cop thing, sothey wanted to see what I look like,
you know, with all my stuffon. While we were sitting there.
That's when we found out about Mike, and I'd been crying pretty constantly,

(56:06):
and I'm not ashamed to admit it. You know, pretty much after
I got there and most got aguilt. I'll be honest, my survivor's
guilt. Even to this day,it rears its head up every once in
a while. Danny was my partner. I was supposed to protect him,
I was supposed to keep him safe, and I didn't. I failed,
And I looked at it that way, and that I missed something. There

(56:30):
was something I didn't do. Ishould have stayed, you know, when
I saw the ar should I havestayed where I was and shot it out
with him a little more. NowI've come to grips with the fact that
if i'd ha done that, Yeah, I guess maybe I could have gotten
him, But then we also couldhave been gone to three funerals that day
instead of two. And you know, it took a lot of time in
convincing to get myself to realize that. And then when I heard about Mike,

(56:52):
oh my god, I almost collapsedon the floor because if I felt
guilty for Danny, I felt likeI'm as well have driven up to Plaster
County and shot Mike myself for nottaking that guy out in the parking lot.
It was my fault that that happened. That's the way I looked at
it, right, Yeah, becausethe mind does the extension, right,
And apparently I thought I was,you know, perfect and superman, because

(57:13):
you know, that's the only waythat would have ended differently. Right Again,
Since then, I've talked to hispartner, I've talked to his widow,
and they're like, no, there'snothing, you know, we're glad
you're alive. And if it wouldhave started in Plaster County, you and
Danny would have been chasing him downin Sack, right, I mean,
that's what you guys do. Hiswife even raised her voice a little bit,

(57:34):
said, don't take that away fromhim, right. And I never
looked at it that way. Ijust looked at my own guilt of I
should have stopped this guy. Yep. So yeah, so a lot of
guilt, a lot of crying,a lot of like, I mean,
just you know what, you know, it felt felt like it was my
fault. I felt like everything wasmy fault. From that point on,
anything that went bad, it wasmy fault. So we did that.

(57:55):
Eventually we had to go to awalk through the scene. So basically what
they do is was like, well, they asked if I could do it,
and I said, well, willit help with the investigation, and
they said, well, yeah,will, but you don't have to.
And I'm like, well, anythingto help, right, because I knew
he was still on the run atthat point. So you're taken from that
scene, allowed to go to anotherplace, regroup a bit, and now

(58:17):
after three and a half hours,you're taken back, yes, And so
I was driven back there. Andat that Tulso time, Danny's widow,
Susan had been in San Diego ona business trip and she had found out
that by this point, she'd foundout that he'd been shot. And then
eventually San Diego s O, Ibelieve it was, eventually gave her notification

(58:42):
that Danny was dead. But shehad to board a flight, a Southwest
flight to get back to Sacramento,unfortunately, and so I couldn't be with
Susan, so Liz they took herto the airport. So she went to
the airport to be with Sue whileI was going to do my walk through
the scene, went to the sceneand I remember pulling up and seeing the

(59:02):
tape and all the cars and everything, all the chaos and seeing we actually
had two guys that had finished theirregular patrol training, but we were kind
of doing their pop ride along thatday, and I remember they were they
were lifting up the tape from thearea that we were going through, and
they both had these looks on theirfaces, like, I mean, just
this wide eyed look. So wepull in and it was probably the longest

(59:29):
walk I think I've ever done inmy entire life, because we had to
clear a lot of the parking lotto get behind a tactical van before they
kind of took me over to thescene. So they got me behind the
van and kind of told me whatthey wanted me to. You know,
They're all, we're gonna show youthe scene. Danny's not there anymore,
but there's there's blood and there's evidencemarkers, and we just all we want
to know is kind of where youwent and where you were standing. Right.

(59:50):
So I said okay and came outfrom that corner, and I mean,
I felt like I got punched inthe chest. You know, I
got through it, but because yeah, I mean I might, it was
I was being back at the scene, right, being back, I was
back in that exact time frame.I mean, shellcasing is everything, right.

(01:00:13):
Uh. So we got through itand they threw me back in the
car, took me back to thedetective division, and then that's when you
know, the whole range master came, came to switch out the guns,
and then representative for the law firmshowed up for my interview, and because
they still had any interview with thewith the homicide detectives, sat around for

(01:00:36):
hours waiting for that. Eventually wentin did the interview. My wife that
night negotiated for them to put usup in a hotel room because for several
reasons, one get away from themedia. Two, we'd already had plans
for our kids to go out oftown or stay with Grandma because we were
actually going to go out of townthat weekend, so that was kind of
taken care of. And she knewI really couldn't function as a fall right

(01:01:01):
away. And you know, fiveyear old, three year old and less
than a one year old was notgoing to understand why I was, you
know, sad, and I didn'thave it in me to explain it or
anything like that. Plus at thetime, there was all sorts of rumors
about we didn't know who this guywas and there was ties to the Cinaloa
cartel and blah blah blah. Sothey wanted to kind of sequestra us before

(01:01:22):
so they could figure out if therewas any danger there, right, So
they threw us up in a hotelroom and the team showed up there.
Well, I saw the team beforewe left, and then they all came
to the hotel room and I hungout there for a little bit, and
I remember being in the hotel room. Our pastor showed up prayed with me
a little bit, which helped,and I remember being in the hotel room

(01:01:43):
and it was a sweet So wewere around the corner and I remember hearing
a knock at the door, thinking, Okay, who's showing up now?
I was talking with I think Iwas with my pastor at the time,
and I remember hearing my parents.My folks walked in with my brother.
I have a twin brother and thethree of them. My sister lives in
the barriers, so she wasn't there, but they come in and I can
hear my mom in the other roomand oh, nice to meet you,

(01:02:04):
and very like you know, upbeatnchipper and you know, just being my
mom and my dad is quiet likebeing my dad. And the crazy thing
was is, so I came aroundthe corner so I could say hi to
them and you know, give hima hug. And as soon as she
saw me, I've never seen mymom cry like that, and the kind
of a shriek thing that she letout was just and it you know,

(01:02:25):
it came down to she knew Iwas alive, but she needed to see
me, right. She knew thegist of it, and she knew I
was okay, but in her minduntil she saw me, I wasn't okay,
right, And that's an earthshaking eventin itself to witness a parent do
that. Yeah, And she wasbasically she was faking it till she make

(01:02:47):
it right. When she walked in, she was totally just fronting for everybody
right, and then she couldn't whenshe saw me and then my dad.
I mean, I can honestly sayI've seen the guy cry like twice in
my entire life, and most ofthem are after this. But you know,
he didn't ball or anything like that, but his eyes were leaking.
He had allergies going that day andother than a very long hug from my

(01:03:07):
mother and my dad came in andhe he had probably the biggest bottle Jack
Daniels I think I've ever seen inmy life. No, it was crown
anyway they'd gotten from It was acostco one. So it was like,
you know, I mean, andneither of us are big drinkers. But
he set that thing down. He'sall, I don't I don't expect to
get any of this back. AndI looked at him, well you won't,

(01:03:29):
and he didn't. I could.I can say I didn't finish the
whole thing myself. I shared asmuch as I could. But and then
yeah, and then that night didn'tsleep. Had what we call waking images.
So if I was talking to you, I was seeing Danny's face with
a whole. Talking to my wife, I was seeing Danny's face with a

(01:03:50):
whole. I was, That's allI whenever my eyes were open, I
was picturing that kept you know,flinching at loud noises, of course,
you know, anything everything was agunshot. And like I said, thirty
five minutes asleep for about two weeksstraight at least, you start to go
a little goofy after a while,you know, sleep decoration type thing.

(01:04:12):
But every time I close my eyes, I was, you know, picturing
that and dreaming about it. SoI didn't sleep very much. I was,
for some reason, dead set onnot any not taking any meds.
I didn't want to drink myself tosleep, because I knew that was a
bad idea. But eventually I cavedin and got some prescriptions just to help
me kind of get back into anormal sleep rhythm. Did that for about

(01:04:32):
a week and that actually that worked, and then I stopped and I you
know, was back into like kindof somewhat normal sleep. Smart man still
even to this day. I mean, Liz, you know, she used
to very sound sleeper. I couldsleep through a hurricane kind of thing,
right, and uh, you know, she used to send the kids in
to wake me up and and youknow, they jump on the bed and

(01:04:54):
oh, you know, a dadand all this other stuff. Sometimes they're
aiming was bad and got me right, and then that's but you know that'll
really wait yep. Oh yeah,but after this incident, she couldn't do
that anymore because I'd come out ofbed ready to fight. She had and
even herself like she had to likekind of shake my foot stand back.
There was a couple of times wedecided I couldn't have my gun right by
the bed anymore because I'd fly outof bed and grab it and be ready

(01:05:16):
to clear the house, right,And that's not a good thing with kids
in the house or a wife.And there were several times I I hadn't
hurt her, but I tried torest her in the middle of the night.
Never did that before. And therewas one time she woke up with
me on top of her, grabbingher wrists and scared the Bejesus out of
both of us. Once we figuredout what was going on, and I

(01:05:36):
can safely say that that has allfaded away through therapy and a whole bunch
of other stuff. But yeah,just changed everything in my life, every
aspect of it, you know.And then of course there's all the stuff
afterwards. There's the funeral services.I'd never been to one before. It

(01:05:56):
was always that guy that I didn'tknow him well enough. And so I'll
work the over so that the guysthat knew him could go right, no
disrespect or anything like that. Ifigured, I don't want to take a
seat for a guy that really shouldbe there for his friend, So I
always worked him instead of going tohim, so that Danny's was my first
one. And we did Danny's oneday and Mike's the very next day,
and it was hard. It wasvery hard, both of them. I

(01:06:21):
remember somebody asking me, you know, why are you going to go both?
Isn't that too much for you?I said, there's no way I'm
going to miss the service for theguy that got killed. Trying to catch
my partner's killer. Not a chance, it's not happening. Four days later,
the two suspects were charged with fourteenfelon accounts, including murder, attempted

(01:06:45):
murder, carjacking, possession of weaponsby a felon. Five of the accounts
were considered special circumstances at the time, which is in twenty fourteen, which
could yield the death penalty. Soto summarize to date, essentially, at
this point you're having to deal withand I had to write this down because

(01:07:06):
this lit up my brain stem.You have to deal with the event itself.
You have to deal with personal guilt, you have to deal with the
second guessing of everything. You getno sleep. With lack of sleep comes
the ability, the inability to focus, which becomes a physical drain because the

(01:07:30):
mind and the body are as one. As I'm sure you've discovered the constant,
never ending replaying in your mind.I call it the brain theater which
visits me. You have to thinkof your wife, because now she's involved,
Liz, your family, your relatives, your friends, your co workers,

(01:07:54):
your department, the district attorney andthe various investigators, your neighborhood and
your community, and so much more. There's so much more to this story,
which again, which is why Irecommend as a reminder, folks were
listening tonight to Deputy Scott Brown ofthe Sacramento County Sheriff's Department, and we're

(01:08:16):
talking about his book entitled Facing Evil. The reason I come back to this
is because until you read the book, and again I thank you for being
here tonight, Scott, but untilyou read the book, you won't appreciate
the depth and breadth of people andinstitutions and organizations that are affected by In

(01:08:44):
this case, not just one incident, but it became a leap frogging series
of incidents that involved an ever expandingcoentre of individuals from this one evil person
and that's why I highly recommend thebook. There's so much to it that's

(01:09:06):
internalized and externalized. If I couldjust for a second, because what I'd
like to do is I would liketo get to the trial, yes,
and then the sentencing, because folks, you haven't heard anything yet about this
individual. There's so much more.Could we talk for a moment about your

(01:09:33):
wife, Liz? Yeah, andwhat she means to you, what to
the people that don't have or officersthat go through this that don't have a
Liz, what a blessing? Ohyeah, my wife was amazing that day.

(01:09:58):
And it's true. You you don'tknow necessarily how somebody's going to react
until they're you know, put upinto the fire right. And she,
I mean, she is so farfrom law enforcement it's not even funny,
right she it's not her job,that's not she's never she's not a cop.
She has no intention to being acop. I didn't come home and
share all the gory stories with her, you know, that kind of stuff.

(01:10:21):
It's that that was two different lives, right, And what she stepped
up to that day, not onlyfor me, but for Susan and everything
else, was just nothing short ofheroic, and I can honestly say that
I wouldn't be sitting here today ifit weren't for her. We'd known each
other since we were eighteen, starteddating freshman year of college. She she

(01:10:47):
was my strength when I didn't haveany. She made good decisions when I
would have made bad ones. Shewas somebody to eventually, you know,
not only stuff off of invent to, but now she's my partner in this
right She, like I said,her name could be on that book too,

(01:11:10):
And her and I are now tryingto help officers, trying to help
officer couples. And you know,she's just as important in this story,
if not more than myself. Andthat's why I wanted to mention that.
The other thing I'd like to mention, which I believe is very important in

(01:11:30):
before we started speaking during the streaming, you mentioned and I want to reemphasize
that in this book there are aton of resources for people who get involved
in incidents like this that I wishexisted a long time ago in a galaxy

(01:11:53):
far far away, but they're delineatedhere in this book so that if people
want to, they can get thehelp, not just as an individual,
but as families, groups, allof those things. And I think that
also that aspect is a major blessingof this book, that the compilation exists

(01:12:15):
within here at the end of thebook. And that's that's really the reason
we wrote it was, you know, you got to give the story right,
to give context, and especially cops, we're a bunch of cynical sobs
to begin with. So unless somebodyhas been there and done that, we
don't listen to him, right,you know, we're not going to listen
to that new guy. He maysay the right things, but if he
doesn't have any scars on him,we're not We're not going to pay any

(01:12:38):
attention to him. So that's thecontext of the story is just to set
the stage right. It's not thatI look forward to telling that story or
you know, reliving it over andover again, but you've got to give
some context as to why you're there. But that's the reason we wrote the
book was to help people to togive resources to maybe maybe save that marriage,
maybe save that officer from you know, wanting to suck start his gun,

(01:13:01):
you know, because that's happening inat an alarming rate, and a
lot of things. We believe thatThis book is a way of saying you're
not alone. Right that feeling thatyou're having a you know, an anxiety
attack. I you know, I'vehad that, you know, the upset
stomach, the muscle tension, theheadaches, the anger. It's normal and

(01:13:21):
it's hard to say it's normal becauseit doesn't feel normal. But this book
is another way of letting those peopleknow that you're not alone. Those things
are normal, but you can workthrough them, and there are resources,
there are things you can do tohelp yourself out, and we hope that
that's one of the things that peopleget out of this I've been to I'm

(01:13:46):
looking at the page here. SinceI was on the department, I was
thinking that I wasn't going to dothis, but I think maybe it bears
mentioning. Since I've been on thedepartment, fourteen deputies have been killed during
the time that I worked up untilI retired in twenty sixteen. There was
Deputy Stuart Baird in seventy six,Detective Chris Moon in seventy nine, Detective

(01:14:14):
Jeane lutheran eighty, Detective Dave Millerin eighty three, Sergeant Rick Deefner in
eighty eight, Deputy Sheriff Sandy Larsonin ninety eight. One of the reasons
we got evac as a matter offact, Oh, we only had to
kill somebody to get EVOQ, noproblem. That's a bitter point for me.

(01:14:40):
I can tell Deputy Sheriff Kevin Blountand in two thousand and five,
and Deputy Sheriff Joe Kieverernagel in ahelicopter accident. We'd already mentioned Jeff Mitchell
in two thousand and six, DeputySheriff voon Win in two thousand and seven,
Paul daron Into two thousand and eight, Paul was struck by a car

(01:15:02):
in the fog on a Levy road. I don't remember the in the eighties.
I believe lost a good portion ofhis leg and his hip, and
I was very bitter at the sheriffat the time because we had numerous people
on the department who were taking nicheboutique spots. And if there was anybody

(01:15:27):
that was ever a loyal individual tothe department, it was Paul Darone.
He eventually passed from his injuries ineight. Larry Canfield in a motor crash
in two thousand and eight. Ofcourse, Danny in twenty fourteen, and
then after I retired there was BobFrench, Deputy Sheriff Mark Stasiuk, and

(01:15:54):
the most recent individual, Deputy SheriffAdam Gibson, who passed away in twenty
twenty one, all just within ourdepartment, all with just within those years.
And it doesn't appear to be gettingmuch better. And this is on
this is on the on the orderof funerals. Now, you went to

(01:16:21):
Daniel Oliver's funeral. Obviously you wereat the Adventure Church in Roseville. If
I'm not mistaken, I gotta lookhere to see November three of twenty fourteen.
Okay, understood. The very nextday you went to the funeral of

(01:16:44):
Placar County Sheriff's Detective Michael Davis.Very next day, same church. Yes,
absolutely astounding. I don't think Icould have done that. Two funerals,
two separate individ jewels, two daysin a row. How did you
cope? I mean, I Idon't know. I don't know how you

(01:17:09):
did it. Again, I'm gonnaattribute it a lot to Liz. Without
her by my side, I don'tknow if I could have. I'll tell
you what the interesting crazy thing aboutit is so those funerals, right,
it's it's a lot of I mean, you're sitting, it's a it's a
funeral. And it's not like Iworked that day. I was still off
work or anything like that. Bythe end of those two days, my

(01:17:31):
body because it was so I wasso tense and trying to hold myself together.
I felt like I got I rana marathon, got hit by a
truck, and got beat up bya professional fighter all at the same time.
Yeah, I mean it was mybody was a train wreck. By
the time I was done with thosetwo my eyes hurt from crying. But

(01:17:56):
you know, just it wasn't anoption. There was no way I was
gonna There's not I wasn't gonna missDanny's and there's no way I was going
to miss Mike's. Well, itcontinued, of course, it didn't stop
there. So Gempanty, Scott Brown, you came back to work for the
Pop Team. Now this was Octobertwenty fourth in fourteen. You came back

(01:18:19):
in early February of twenty fifteen towork at the Pop Team, same place
you were employed, same place youwere working, same unit on that particular
day. How surreal was that?Well, so I when I went back,

(01:18:42):
I told myself I had to goback to that team to prove to
myself I could still do it.Yeah, horrible idea, the worse horrible
idea. I should have gone.I should have let them put me somewhere
else to go back to work insteadof right there. But it is what
it is, right, I hadto prove it to myself. Liz was
not ready for me to go backyet. Prior to that, she never

(01:19:02):
really worried that much about what wasgoing to happen, and now obviously things
had changed. So that day Ipromised her I wouldn't go out in the
field. I just, you know, stay in the office, do some
computer work, and just kind ofease into it. Right prior to this,
I would drive to work and getoff on that overpass and try to
Okay, who are we going togo after? What are we going to
go do today? I was veryexcited about work after this, the first

(01:19:26):
day back in several months. Afterwards, all I wanted to do was flip
around to the other side of thatoverpass and drive straight back home. That
day I went back to work,and going from a place that felt like
home, it's a little bit likecheers. You know, you'd walk in
everybody started insulting you. But itwas a good thing, right, you

(01:19:46):
know. I don't know if everybody'slike that, but if if in cop
work, if your friends aren't makingfun of you, it's probably because they
don't like you. If they're nice, implied to you, or don't talk
to you, it's it's not that'snot a good thing. And and so
from going from a place that felllike home, right, and those guys
joshing with me and give me hardtime, I remember walking in and everybody

(01:20:06):
talking. As soon as I hitthat room, it was you could have
heard a pin drop, and everybodytreated me like I was made out of
glass, like if they touched me, I was going to shatter. And
no fault of their own, right, they just did. They didn't know,
I didn't know. Nobody knew whatto do, nobody knew how to
act. And it made me feellike an outcast. It made me feel
out of place, it made mefeel uncomfortable. I mean just everything was

(01:20:30):
wrong. And I remember just thinking, God, I hope it's not going
to stay like this for very long, because I can't do it. The
thing that stuck with me in thebook was You're going back to Pop and
they had held Danny Oliver's desk inhis chair and apparently they expected you to

(01:20:51):
be there. Well, I don'tknow about held it for me. I
think part of it was they,you know, several couple people had moved
on to others assignment since then whileI was off, and a couple of
new ones had come in. AndI think it was more the fact that
nobody was willing to sit at hisdesk. Nobody wanted to, and when

(01:21:11):
I got back, it was theonly one left. And I didn't have
the guts balls. I don't knowwhat you want to say to say,
this ain't happening, right, Okay, So I ended up not only sitting
at his desk, I ended updriving the same car and working this same
area. And poor my poor partnerafter that had to I think they had

(01:21:33):
two of them since then that whileI was still on the pop team that
I believe they were as signed,probably to babysit me, make sure that
I wasn't going to do anything stupidor you know, behave myself. And
you know, they had to putup with some breakdowns and some other stuff,
but they both of them were amazingpeople and did a great job with
me until I moved on to otherthings. When I finally realized that it

(01:21:54):
was not a healthy place for meto be. Took about six to eight
months, give or take, beforeI said, you know what, this
isn't where I need to be.I'd wanted to be a detective for a
long time. Actually put in forit a couple of times. I hadn't
gotten it. Very reluctant to putin for it again because in my mind,
anything I got at this point wasgonna be pity. Now. I

(01:22:16):
was a hard worker. I wasgood at my job, and you know,
I should have been confident in that, but for set my confidence was
shot. But you can't help butthink not that. And even after I
got the job and was there forfive years, I still couldn't shake the
feeling in my head. Couldn't couldn'tconvince myself that I didn't get it just
because they felt sorry for me.And it does that it, you know,

(01:22:44):
the lack of confidence and that thatfeeling was hard, but yeah,
it is what it is. Ihad my first panic attack when I went
back, and it was literally justdriving to a meal. We were going
to have lunch and the car aheadof us pulled somebody over and we were
just covering them all. I waskind of get out and watch because there
was plenty of us. And asthey were walking up to that driver's side
door, my heart started going outof control. And all I could picture

(01:23:08):
was the driver sitting there with agun in his hand, waiting for them
to clear that back the pillar andshoot him. And it went fine.
They went up, told him,gave him a little warning, slowed down
kind of thing, whatever it was. It took me at least forty five
minutes to an hour before I couldeven get back in the car to go
eat because I couldn't stop moving.My heart was racing. I was,
I mean just and again my partnerswere phenomenal to stand by me, calm

(01:23:34):
me down, and I remember thinkingin my mind. I remember thinking at
that point, I'm like, ohmy god, if it's like this for
the next hour many years, I'mdone. There's no way I can keep
doing this job if every time Iapproach a car or my partner does this
happens to me. Thank god Iwas able to push through it. Had
some great advice for some people ofjust you know, just do another one,

(01:23:57):
do another one, and eventually itgoes away from some people that been
through some some pretty crazy events aswell. And so I did, and
eventually that that that part faded.Thank god. Did you discover that there
were things that would get to you, that that would that would light the

(01:24:18):
fire in the brain, that wouldtake you back, that weren't necessarily associated
to something that you thought it wouldbe. I don't know if you know
exactly what I'm saying, but youknow, yeah, maybe something linked to
a vehicle stop. Okay, Iget that. But were there things that
you hadn't expected that all of asudden trip the circuit breaker and brought you

(01:24:44):
back. There were things that Icouldn't even point to what that thing was
like. I mean there was timesI'd be driving home and all of a
sudden just be bawling. Yeah,I would, you know, finish up
a call, a coupled in,and all of a sudden, I was
so angry. I wanted to breakeverything in the vicinity right, and I

(01:25:05):
couldn't. There was some, Imean some of them I could pinpoint right,
Oh, we did a stop inthis area, or I remember this
from this area. That's probably whatset it off right. So a song
on the radio, the wrong songon the radio, would you know,
set me off right? And andLiz and I, Wow, it happened
often enough, and it doesn't happenas much as it used to, but

(01:25:28):
we used to start calling them Dannydays. And just I would. I
would every once in a while,I would, if I knew it ahead
of time or I was enough tobe able to see it, I would
text her. I'd be like,before I came home, I'd warn her.
I'd be like, Hey, Liz, today's a Danny day. And
so she knew that I was sad, mad, whatever it was, and
and would you know, be ableto handle me appropriately? And so that

(01:25:51):
was kind of our code word,our affectionate of like, you know,
I had I had a trigger today, And so we call them Danny days.
You hit something that kicked me rightin the cortex. Music, I
would hear songs, I would heara verse from a song, and that

(01:26:13):
that would be enough right there,out of nowhere, absolutely out of nowhere.
What I'd like to do, Folks, We're talking tonight to Deputy Scott
Brown of the Sacramento County Sheriff's Departmentand it's about his book that I have
right here called Facing Evil. Andthough we have two hours, and I
swear to God, I will wrapthis up in about another half hour or

(01:26:34):
so, it'll be two hours,and I'm sure that's more than enough.
Okay. But the reason that Ihave Scott on tonight is because we're leading
somewhere. We're going somewhere on thisjourney for a reason. And the other
reason that I highly suggest the bookis because there's so much information in here

(01:26:57):
that I wish I had had manymany years ago. So it's a compendium
of all the lives touched, allthe lives lost, all the resources that
you can have. The story isso much bigger than the portion that you're
hearing tonight, which is why Ithink this is absolutely so important. So

(01:27:20):
what I would like to do,Scott Brown, if we could, is
then begin to transition over into thecourt trial and then the sentencing, and
then I'd like to talk to somethingabout something that I don't know if you
are interested in talking about this isreligion and the part that religion has played

(01:27:45):
in your ability to cope. Sofirst, if we could transition over into
the trial of this which begins onJanuary sixteenth of twenty eighteen, that animal's
trial begins. Then it's not justrefreshing the brain and making you go through

(01:28:05):
it all over again. The evildidn't stop. The evil personified in this
individual by the things that he didin the courtroom. Could you tell people
when the trial began, just someof the things that you can think of
that he did and pulled in thecourtroom. Yeah. So the thing about

(01:28:29):
the trial is I had three anda half years roughly, and that's all
I thought about, and I couldn'tthink of anything else. And finally that
day came. And there's a lotof other stuff kind of around that,
but finally went in there, andeven before me going into the courtroom,
i'd heard from the dad kind ofwarned me that, you know, he's

(01:28:53):
laughing. He's you know, sayingstuff to the widows, to Susan and
some of the other people in thegalley behind. He's threatening jurors, he's
laughing at him, he's pointing gunfingersat him. In his transportation to and
from court, he's you know,telling the officers that they're going to die,
that the cartels after him, thattheir families are going to die,

(01:29:14):
that he wished he had killed moreofficers. He's doing all this stuff even
before. And then on the dayI finally went in to testify, obviously
I was nervous. I was actuallymore nervous leading up to it. But
when I went in there and Ifully put this on the Lord, kind

(01:29:36):
of putting some calm over me.I went in there and started to testify.
He laughed and said some quiet stuffat first, and then at a
certain point he started going off,telling me that I was a coward,

(01:29:57):
that I killed my partner, anddo you want to know what your partner
said right before he died, Iwish I'd kill more, And oh yeah,
he's yelling at it at me,And even as he's getting taken out
of the courtroom and taken down downthis there's a downstairs area where they had
a because they of his antics,they'd already set up a TV because he
has to be present during his hearing, where he could watch it on close

(01:30:21):
circuit television. He's yelling the wholeway down. So he did that when
I testified in the criminal phase,and then in the penalty phase, he
did the same thing, yelling allsorts of stuff, and my goal when
I went in there was to notonly, you know, give an accurate

(01:30:42):
description of what happened, but Iwanted to honor Danny. I wanted to
honor my family. I wanted tohonor my God and not show that he
got to me. I didn't wantto give him any more than he'd already
taken from me. So as he'syelling these things, I just sat there,
just staring straight ahead and not reactingas much as I wanted to,
because he wasn't very far away andnobody would have been able to stop me

(01:31:04):
before I got to him. Butlike again, you know, if you
want to put it in simple terms, were good guys. He's a bad
guy, and that's not what Idid. At one point though, after
he got left, after he gottaken out, I remember the judge bringing
everybody back in and I asked him, Hey, can I can I have
him in? It said yeah,sure, there's an empty chambers right around

(01:31:26):
the corner. Go ahead, Andso I went around there and I didn't
even realize I did it, butthe first thing I did was punch a
metal cabinet, which sounded apparently likea gunshot or something, because they could
hear it. All the way outin the hallway, and the DA investigator
who I've become friends with since theycame running in and he's like, what
was that? Are you okay?I'm like, yeah, yeah, why?
Why what's going on? And UAnd even then I had to stand
in that room for a good fiveminutes. And I'm sure it looks silly

(01:31:49):
as hell, but bouncing up anddown and shaking my hands and shaking my
arms, and because I had somuch pent up energy from holding it in
while he was yelling that I was. I mean, I had to let
it out right. I couldn't gofor a run. I couldn't, you
know, punch a bunching bag.So I was literally bouncing up and down,
shaking as much as I could,just trying to get the energy out.
And once I felt like I gotit together, I went back in

(01:32:12):
and sat down at the stand andjust say you good. I'm like,
yeah, I'm good. So hestarts bringing them back in. Well,
the bailiff brings over one of thosestupid little Dixie cups with enough water that
I don't know what they're supposed toactually do with it, because it's it's
a Dixie cup. I mean,it's tiny. Yeah, well, I
think I'm good, right, Andas they're bringing people in, I picked
the thing up and my hand isshaking so bad. Half the water goes
thrown all over the place. I'mlike, oh my god. So I

(01:32:33):
pull it underneath and for the restof the thing, my hands stayed underneath
where nobody could see him. Becauseeven though I thought I was good,
I was still so amped up thatit wasn't scared. I wasn't even nerves.
It was so much adrenaline from sittingthere and holding myself together that it
had to let itself out because that'sbiologically it does. I called it vibrating

(01:32:54):
with energy. I would vibrate,And it wasn't the only time. Like
the first time I ever told thestory in a debrief, my whole body
shook soup. I was embarrassed ashell. I was so embarrassed because I
was My whole body was shivering likeI had one hundred and three degree temperature.
Had I known that that was normal, I might not have. You
know, felt so bad about it. Now I know that's a normal reaction.

(01:33:15):
It's you know it is, andyou know. But at the time,
man, I'll tell you what itwas the weirdest thing in the world.
And I'm like, oh my god, I don't even I'm possessed.
Right, It's weird because you feelas if you that's not you, and
you have no control. Now,who is this? Yeah? Okay.
So on February ninth of twenty eighteen, the jury notifies to the judge that

(01:33:39):
they'd reached a verdict. Now,there were two trials. You mentioned the
girlfriend, yes, and then therewas the trial for the animal, as
I call that lovely person, andthen there was the trial for the girlfriend.
When I read this book and youyou didn't go into it, and
I I'm not sure. I'll justask the question, anyway, do you

(01:34:04):
think that, in retrospect these yearslater, that she had any hand in
pulling any trigger there at the scene. No, okay, now, and
that's why she was never actually chargedwith Danny's. She only started getting charged
at everything after Danny's because literally,she laid down in that back seat in

(01:34:27):
her statement was corbret with evidence,But she basically laid down in that back
seat as the bullets were flying.My bullets were flying over her through that
back windshield. So no, Andthen as far as the other shootings and
stuff like that. There was plentyof witnesses. All the shooting occurred from
him. Okay, So I wantto read the verdict, and I'm looking

(01:34:50):
at Scott's book Facing Evil, Andso the verdict comes back. The first
verdict. Guilty of first degree murderof da Oliver and Brack I'm sorry.
The animal smiled, and he saysyay. After that's read. So then

(01:35:12):
guilty of first degree murder of MichaelDavis. Guilty of special circumstances of a
police officer in both cases, Guiltyof special circumstances of killing police officers to
avoid arrest. Guilty of special circumstancesand killing Davis while carjacking. Guilty of
attempted murder of Scott Brown. Guiltyof attempted murder of the citizen that you

(01:35:33):
had mentioned earlier on Spano's court.Guilty of the attempted carjacking of that individual.
Guilty of carjacking the owner of thewhite Mustang, and so he smiles
as all these verdicts are being read. Guilty of carjacking the owner of the
red Ford f fifty one to fiftypickup, Guilty of attempted carjacking of the

(01:35:53):
owner of the BMW, Guilty ofattempted murder of two individuals to other officers,
guilty of stealing a patrol car,Guilty of attempted murder of Jeffrey Davis,
a Plaster County officer. Guilty ofpossession of nine millimeter handgun, three
eighty hand gun, assault rifle,and a shotgun while a felon, and

(01:36:15):
guilty of possession of assault right ofan assault weapon. I had to open
up the book and read that.Yeah, there was a lot of charges
just so that you have an ideaof folks, all the charges that were
involved. And I can tell youfrom at least for me, a guilty
verdict does not bring the sense ofjustice that you would think it would,

(01:36:38):
know, I mean, it's whatwe wanted, right and my main goal
in that trial was just to makesure that he didn't get out to hurt
anybody else. And that was whatthat was, you know, that goal.
For that goal, it succeeded.But any sense of justice or finality
or anything like that was that Iwas hoping for not occur. It didn't.

(01:37:01):
It actually left. It actually lefta pretty good hole because, like
I said, for three and ahalf years I had something to focus on.
I the trial. Okay, I'mfocused on the trial. I'm focused
on doing what I need to doto get there, to make it right,
to do my part. And thenafter that was over all of a
sudden, I looked up and realizedthat I didn't have anything to focus on
anymore. That that is done now. Yeah, yeah, So the penalty

(01:37:27):
phase starts on March first of twentyeighteen, and that individual, that animal,
said some things to you during thepenalty phase. To me, it
appeared in the book Confirm or denythis if you would, Scott Brown,
all it was is a naked attemptto get into your head. Oh yeah,
yeah, he was. He wastrying to get to me. You

(01:37:49):
know. I don't know if itwas for his own enjoyment or wanted to
see if I was going to dosomething to taint the trial. I don't
know which one he was going for, but yeah, oh yeah, he
was definitely trying to get in there. So on April twenty fifth and twenty
eighteen, the sentences then were revealed, and that was the day that that

(01:38:12):
citizen and folks, I won't gointo it here read the book. That's
when the citizen gave his succinct anda pithy victim statement in concert with a
physical gesture to the animal sitting inthe courtroom. It was directed to the

(01:38:36):
point. Yes, again well written. So the sentences were two death penalties
and I have to read this threefifteen to life sentences, one for attempted
murder and three one hundred and seventyfive years added for all the other crimes

(01:38:58):
that were committed. And so ScottBrown, that was it, right?
Yeah? I mean I was hopingwith the two death penalties that meant they
were going to kill them, bringthem back to life and kill them again.
Fortunately it's not how it works.Such luck, but yeah, yeah,
that was it. And we walkedout of the courtroom that day,
and I actually ended up escorting someof the churns back over the DA's office

(01:39:20):
so they could finish some paperwork becausethey didn't know where it was at.
And that's really when I had tokind of start. That's when my true
starting point for trying to figure outwhat I was going to do with my
life, trying to figure out howI was going to heal from this,
trying to figure out how I wasgoing to repair the damage I'd done to

(01:39:42):
my family and everything else, because, like I said, at that point,
I neglected pretty much everything in mylife up to that point because I
was so focused. There's a section, the third and final big section of
your book called Aftermath, and tome, the focus in the purpose of
the book is essentially from that pointon. It had been a living hell

(01:40:05):
for you up to that point,but it gets to Okay, that's all
finished. Now what so reiterate tosome of the people who may not have
been here the first time when yousaid it, what's what's the purpose of
the book? And why are youhere tonight? So it started, like

(01:40:30):
you and I talked about, itstarted as a journal with through therapy,
I was told that it might helpwith the nightmares to write stuff down,
So I started doing that, andthen through some other events of speaking,
I spoke at a couple of thingsthat got invited to and realized that I
could help people with this. Andso when we decided to write this book,

(01:40:50):
first off, I went and gotpermission from both the Olivers and the
Davis's and told myself I wouldn't takeone step forward without their permission, and
they're hundred percent behind it. Iwas nervous though. I was like,
I don't want people to think I'mtrying to make a dime off of Danny's
death or anything like that. Andthat really held me off for quite a
while. But the nagging need andthought that I could help people with this

(01:41:15):
just kept pushing me forward. Sowhen we wrote it, we kind of
wrote it for several reasons. Thesurface main one was, you know,
we want to help first responders throughtrauma, whether it's through a shared experience
or letting them know that it's okayto go get help, letting them know
that you can go through something likethis and make it through the other side.

(01:41:40):
Because we don't talk about this kindof stuff. We just you know,
and hopefully the newer generations are betterat it. But it was used
to be sucking up buttercup and moveon right, and you hold that stuff
in and it becomes poison. AndI was hoping that this book would dispel
some of those stereotypes and some ofthose you know, mentality that we have.
This second reason was for citizens,civilians, non law enforcement. I

(01:42:02):
was hoping that by reading this book, they would you know, maybe get
rid of some of that crap theysee on TV of oh yeah, they
get in a shooting and then theygo home and they're good. Right,
It's just it's another day at theoffice, right, Disneyland, you going
to You know, it would givethem a good idea that not only do
we go through these things, butwe take them home with us. They
affect us, they affect our families, and they don't go away right away,

(01:42:23):
and that we're real people too,with lives. And then kind of
thirdly, and there's there's several otherthings kind of mixed in, but you
know, my faith was a hugepart of it, and I wanted to
display that in such a way thatif somebody reading this had something missing in
their life, something a whole orwhatever it is, that maybe they read

(01:42:45):
this and they're like, maybe that'swhat I'm missing. Maybe it puts somebody
in church, Maybe it puts themin counseling. Maybe it puts them to
where they're finally going to get theirmarriage worked on or their their own trauma
worked on, you know, whateverit is, and if it sparks something
good, and like Liz and Isaid and VICKI two, if this book
ended up helping one person or onecouple, I'm good with that even one

(01:43:10):
is worth it. And it wasa lot of work, and it was
a lot of hard stuff to gothrough because we went through the crime report,
We did interviews with a ton ofpeople, We looked through photos,
We made sure I wanted to makesure it was as accurate as possible because
I didn't want to misrepresent anything,but then also pouring out our heart and
soul on it. We're very openand very honest, and that's very hard
to do, especially when you're goingto start giving it to other people.

(01:43:32):
But we knew we had to beopen. We knew we had to be
honest, and we couldn't hold anythingback because cops especially are good at reading
that bullshit meter. And you know, I didn't want to blow any sunshine,
and I didn't want to didn't wantto hold back because I knew that
maybe something that even I didn't realizecould help somebody, could hit a chord
with somebody. So we put itall in there. The cop radar is

(01:43:55):
remarkably accurate when we focus it out. When we focus it in, not
so much. Oh yeah, we'rehorrible at that. You had three primary
questions that you asked yourself, andI had to write them down to.
One of the first ones was whatif I'd done something differently, would Danny

(01:44:17):
Oliver still be alive? And thesecond one was was there something I missed
to indicate basically what was to come? And the third one was why did
I live? And why did DannyOliver die? And those are primary fundamental
questions that even though they're the cruxof the biscuit, so to speak,

(01:44:40):
Did you get an answer, ScottBrown to the answer of could I have
done something different? No? Not, as you know, with my training
and my experience and without knowing thefuture, now, there's nothing I could
have done differently. You know.The one that eats me up, actually

(01:45:02):
almost more is the after fat thestuff he did after Danny. And still
I've come to grips with it,come to you know, a realization with
it. But you know, stillevery once while I asked that question,
had I stayed in the fight,would I've been able to take him out
instead of taking cover? Would Ihave been able to stop him from all

(01:45:25):
this ship that he did afterwards?Right? And you know you can't second
guess yourself, you can't question it. You know, I I did what
I had to do. At thetime. And you know, am I
do I regret the fact that mywife still has a husband and my kids
still have a dad. No,not at all, you know, And
if if, if that's and andand to you know, why was I

(01:45:48):
saved and Nanny was killed? No, I don't have an answer for that,
and I won't until I go meetthe Lord. And I've said there's
there's you know, if the onlyreason I was saved was to be a
good dad to my kids and agood husband and my wife and raise three
good men because Lord knows this worldneeds good men, then that's good enough
for me. But I feel likeit's that plus this book, plus trying

(01:46:11):
to help other law enforcement officers throughtheir trauma. I mean, since then,
I've joined our peer support team.I've started speaking with an organization called
Cops, which is a national organizationthat deals solely with line of duty deaths,
and had some amazing conversations and evenjust all our local ones that have
happened since Danny. Because we hada shared experience, I've been able to
talk to guys that probably wouldn't havetalked to me otherwise because they knew I

(01:46:34):
would understand, And you know,whether the Lord still has more for me
down the road, some big thing. I don't know, but I'm going
to continue to say yes to whateverit is. If this is as far
as it goes, then I'm okaywith that too. Right. Let me
ask you kind of a I don'tknow, maybe a little bit of a

(01:46:55):
strange question. Absent this, whatoccurred you think perhaps you would have reached
that level of introspection or self examinationthat you otherwise took with that journey,
good or bad. No, Idon't. I didn't think so, No,

(01:47:16):
I I you know, And againit goes back on my faith.
And if you look at the Ifyou look at the Bible, every major
character in the Bible went through something, usually horrible, to reveal something in
them, you know, trial byfire, that kind of thing. And
you know, would I change whathappened that day? Yes, I would

(01:47:36):
for anything in the world. Butthat's not how it works, and I
can't do that, right. SoI'm going to try to do what I
can with what happened with and whateverwhatever Satan meant for evil, the Lord
will turn for good. Right.And that's kind of the the motto that
Liz and I have been living byis this this thing was meant for evil?

(01:47:56):
Right, this is evil. Thiswas an evil day, and there
there no you can try to justifyit. You can try to find reasoning
for it, and you're never goingto find it. But it's what you
do with it afterwards. And weare trying to do the best we can,
and we've messed up and we ticksome people off, but you know
what, We're trying to do thebest we can with what we got,
trying to help as many people aswe can. Because I feel like if

(01:48:17):
I just sit on this and Idon't do anything, not only did Danny
die in vain, but I'm doinghim a huge disservice and dishonoring his memory
and myself and my family and everythingelse by just sitting there and not doing
anything and steing it. As opposedto you know what he was about helping
people as kind of the big goalof Pop Team was a community orient type

(01:48:38):
thing. I'm going to go outand try to help as many people as
I can, you know, andif it means I have to relive this
story, then so be it.This is a little similar and I'm a
little hesitant to to mention this,but that's that's a drive that you have

(01:49:00):
to do that. My drive atthe time in ninety eight was when Deputy
Sandy Larson was killed, we gotan EVOC program, and my drive for
that, for designing the program wasit would have been ridiculously futile to have
let her life be for nothing,especially if we didn't learn something from it.

(01:49:27):
That's the goal. I'd like togo into lessons that you may have
learned from all of this. Butnow we're going to get to the point
where I said at the beginning,before we began and we were speaking,
I said, there were I'm noteven going to open the book because I
wrote it down here in front ofme. Why should I open the book
when that's right there. You tome, the whole thing of this book

(01:49:53):
got distilled down to five sentences,and it's about forgiveness. Yes, and
it's something that I have a reallydifficult time with guilty, very difficult.
But these sentences at the end ofthe book just cemented I'm trying to think

(01:50:19):
of the perfect word and I'm notcoming up with it. Cemented the whole
book for me. And you saidthis during your victim impact statement on April
twenty fifth, twenty eighteen, andyou said, my faith tells me to
forgive the defendant. For the longesttime, I struggled with this, How

(01:50:42):
do I forgive him? This isthe clue I came to realize that I
wasn't forgiving him or his actions.I was giving myself permission to not think
about him anymore. That just resonatedto me. That was key. Yeah,

(01:51:09):
that's powerful, powerful stuff. Yeah. And I did not come by
that easily. And actually it tookit took actually a pastor for my church
to explain it to me, becausemy definition of forgiveness was what I wrote

(01:51:30):
in there, you know, forgivinghim, forgiving his actions, and there
was no way that that was goingto happen. Yeah, And I know
I was supposed to as a asa Christian, I'm supposed to forgive and
write all that other good stuff.And I battled with that. I knew
I could not forgive him for that, for not only what he did to
me and my family, but moreimportantly Danny and Mike and everybody. You
know that that rock in the pondthing, I mean, this was a

(01:51:51):
boulder in This was a mountain inthe pond kind of thing, right,
And the ripple effect is still everyonce in a while I have people that
I had no clue. We dida book signing and somebody came up and
talked to me, and I meanlaid out their heart to him. And
I would have never even thought right. But eventually the way, you know,
once once it was explained to mein that in that way, you

(01:52:15):
know that I'm forgiving, not nothim, but you know, forgiving myself
honestly, because that was really whatI was battling with. I could not
forgive myself for what I deemed whatI was believing was my fault and what
I should have done and could havedone, and what ifs and all the
other stuff that we go over.And you know, it wasn't like a

(01:52:36):
magic like all of a sudden.It happened at once just because he explained
it to me. But once Iwas able to wrap my head around that
definition of forgiveness, things started toget better. This will affect everybody differently
For me, just as an individual. That was my revelation for that book.

(01:52:58):
I'd never even thought about it,that forgiveness for an animal like this.
My first inclination was and probably alwayswill be, No how could I
and then I would think, butthat makes me a bad person until I
read that, and finally the cloudsparted. So if nothing else, the

(01:53:23):
little fat, dumpy old guy righthere got it. I got it out
of that. So in terms ofleft lessons, are are there any lessons
yet unmentioned that you think you've pulledout of this pile of debris? I

(01:53:47):
mean, it's the list is Imean, it's long. There's like I
said, I would change that day, but I would also some of the
experiences that I've had since then,I would have never had any other way.
Some of the friendships I have now, there's no way I would have
had them. I mean, Iyou know, I'm good friends now with

(01:54:11):
Mike's brother, and I mean we'reboth law enforcement, but I don't think
I would have really met him differentagencies and now we're friends. I got
to walk Danny's daughter part way downthe aisle when she got married and hand
her off to Susan. And now, I mean I'd have been at the
wedding and I would given anything to, you know, be there watching instead

(01:54:34):
of doing it myself. But itwas an honor to do something like that.
The conversations just from this book alonethat or when my wife and I
go speak at these conferences, theconversations I've had with complete strangers because something
I said resonated with them. It'sjust it's it's filled. It gives me

(01:54:55):
inspiration to keep going. But asfar as lessons, you know, don't
take anything for granted. I knowit's cliche, right, people say,
oh, you never realize you knowhow important things are until you come close
to death. Well, it's true. There's a reason people say it.
You know, my family, mytime with my kids, so you know,
instead of hey, there's an overtimeshift available, Sorry, I'd rather

(01:55:17):
I'd rather go spend a day withmy boys fishing as opposed to you know.
And yeah, I'm not saying money'snot important and I don't need it,
right, but frankly, if Ihave a choice, it's going to
be family over work. And Istill like my job. It's not like
I'm miserable where I'm at or anythinglike that, but I pick, yeah,
family over that. And even myfaith has changed dramatically. One of

(01:55:42):
our pastors one time was given asermon, and you know, he referred
to Christians in kind of a twodifferent contexts right, he said, there's
there's little c you know, theygo through the motions, they got to
church and they you know, throwsomething in the bucket once in a while
and show up at Eastern Christmas.And you know, I I act right
that kind of thing. And thenthere's then there's the big sea right where
you're out there trying to change theworld, trying to spread your faith,

(01:56:02):
not afraid to you know, talkabout it. And all of a sudden
I realized that I might not havetomorrow to get right to you know,
to do what I need to do, you know, and to spread the
word, to change somebody's life,to you know, talk to a friend
that might not believe right. AndI don't want to wait. I don't

(01:56:26):
want to have any regrets. Idon't want to think, oh well,
I you know I waited till tomorrowto talk to this person. Oh wait,
I didn't have till tomorrow. Youknow that kind of thing. Those
are probably the big ones, ismy faith and my family, just both
of them complete. One eighties,there was a musician that was one of

(01:56:48):
my favorite individual musicians named Warren Zevonnwho died from cancer and on the David
Letterman show, he talked about lifebefore he passed away, and he said
three words, enjoy every sandwich.Yeah, I never forgot that. So

(01:57:10):
your book, Scott Brown, basicallybegan as therapy. And I'm guessing now
that your book is sort of avehicle or a conduit now for healing.
Yeah, I mean it's and that'swe tell people that get it, especially
law enforcement officers. I'm like,hey, the first part's rough. I'm
not gonna lie to you, right, it's not a bedtime story. We

(01:57:32):
had to start telling people don't readit because oh I started to read it
at night by my bed and Iwas crying and I had to put it
down. I'm like, don't readit at night before you go to bed.
That's not a bedtime story, right, I'm all, but keep going,
because we also talk to some peoplethat are like, it was pretty
intense, and I'm halfway through.I'm all, you got to finish though,
because that's why we label those chapters, right, you know, the

(01:57:54):
murderer in Mayhem in the aftermath,Right, you got to keep going because
our goal is to not just setthe stage and not just write an interesting
story that people found, you know, intriguing, because people like cop stories,
right, We wanted to tell thestory so that we could get to
the healing afterwards to hopefully inspire peopleto get healing for themselves. And so

(01:58:15):
they got it. Like, yougot to keep reading. You got to
get to that last part because thatwas my favorite part. Was actually the
second, the third, the thirdpart of the book, because that's the
part that I want to get out. That's the part I want people to
read. You got to get throughthe front part to kind of set the
stage, but that aftermath part,that's that's where the real I think the
meat of the book is. Iwould completely concur And again we mentioned this,

(01:58:41):
or you maybe mentioned it during theshow. You said somebody read it
and said, oh, they wentthrough it in two days. But yeah,
it's an easy read. It's disturbing. Well, I wrote it,
so it had to be pretty easy, right. If I actually did the
whole thing, there would have beentrayons and coloring pictures and stuff. Luckily,
Lucky Vicky know what to do,so she she made it actually look
like a book for me. Cramonme and Jim Lister. Yeah, that's

(01:59:04):
the story for another day. Inany event, the event itself, the
journey. The end is the goal, that's the point of it all.
And there and and and although therehas to be an end to a book,
right, the end of my healing, the end of this journey is
still ongoing. You know. It'snot like I. You know, there's

(01:59:28):
still days. They still have baddays like everybody else, right, And
I think I was telling you aheadof time. There's still not a day
goes by that I don't think aboutDanny or that day. Yep, you
know, And sometimes I still mournfor the the loss of what could have
been. What kind of friendship willwe have now? You know, he
he would have retired by now,and you know, probably been giving me
crap because he invited me to stuffI can't go to, right like some

(01:59:49):
of my other retired friends. Heyyou want to go to this, I
gotta go to work, work,sucker, you know that kind of thing.
You know, the more in theloss for Susan, you know,
for his daughters, for a whole, but of the department, you know,
the good he could have done forthose next three and a half years
or whatever it was before it's aboutthree years roughly before he's gonna retire.

(02:00:09):
But you know, I don't dwellon him anymore, and I look forward
to what's going to happen down theroad. So I still have my bad
days. I still go to therapy. My wife and I go check in
with our therapist, who we love. We think she's amazing, and we
go check in with her. Probablynot as often as we used to,
but once every couple of months we'relike, hey, can we do a

(02:00:30):
check up. We go in togetherand just make sure that we're still,
you know, on the same pageand think of the right stuff. And
there's nothing wrong with that. ScottBrown, let me let me wrap up
because I'm looking at the time.Yeah, And a lot of people don't
address this. I do on theshow every now and then, probably not

(02:00:53):
as much as I should. Overall, in all of this, how has
your faith been in pacted? Uh, it's taken. It's been taken to
the next level. You know.Before I was I was raised in the
church. I was raised going tochurch. My my mom's a p K
preacher's kid p K. Yeah.My dad, you know, grew up

(02:01:15):
in Episcopalian church, you know,with all the incense and that kind of
thing, and just it was alwayspart of my life. But I was
again, you know, for themost part, just going through the motions.
And you would have never seen mepray in front of a group,
uh, you know, volunteer leadanything. Since this has happened. I
was, you know, a coleader of a men's group with seventy five

(02:01:35):
guys, you know, you know, praying in front of them at the
beginning of these services, talking openlyabout my faith with pretty much whoever would
listen. You know, we did, we did. We didn't make this
a religious book, but because itwas such a part of our healing,
it's in there and there, andI wasn't trying to hide it. You
know. When we were working onpublishing and stuff like that, it's like,

(02:01:55):
Okay, if we go with aChristian publication, you know, we'd
have to edit a whole bunch ofstuff out, and I wasn't about to
do that because that's that's not thepoint of this, right. We couldn't
get a regular publication to do itbecause at the time and still, you
know, we weren't exactly a populargroup. And yeah, and a lot
of the publishing houses just they didn'twant to have anything to do with it.

(02:02:16):
And so we're like, you knowwhat, let's just do it ourselves.
No big deal, you know,but yeah, my faith and just
it's I can't even really put itinto words. How much of a turnaround,
you know. It wasn't like Iwas, you know, going down,
you know, doing bad stuff andbeing a horrible person. But the

(02:02:39):
fire that it changed and lit inme uh tenfold, you know. I
mean, it's it's it's a it'sa new life for me in that regard,
Scott Brown, did I leave anythingout that you wanted to talk about
tonight? I'm sure we could sithere for another six hours if we wanted
to, But no, it's it'sany any major, big bullet point that
you need to come now. Ithink this was all. I think it

(02:03:00):
was good. I just like Isaid, I I encourage people to get
this book and then share it,you know, hand it off to somebody
you know that you think might needit. And we when we first came
out with it, we kind ofdid a little campaign of buy one for
yourself, but buy one to donateto an officer. And so we had
I think, god, we hadone hundred and seventy bought that people pay

(02:03:23):
they said, hey, give thisto somebody. Give this to somebody.
One hundred and seventy plus books thatyou know, So when we come across
an officer that's hurting or just onethat we meet out on the street or
whatever, we always keep a couplein our cars and stuff, and we're
able to give that to them,you know, as a gift, saying,
hey, this is somebody bought thisthat they wanted us to gift to
an officer, and I want togive it to you. So I encourage

(02:03:44):
that as well, you know.And that's about it. Yeah, it's
and and there was I mean thisthis scratched the surface, but like you
said, there's so much in therethat we'd be there, we'd be here
for a couple of days at least. That's that's the whole point of being
here, number one. Scott Brown, thank you ever so kindly for being
here tonight and taking the time todiscuss an event that basically had the ability

(02:04:05):
to completely tear you apart, andyet you found the interior steel and the
temper to heal. But that's againwhy I say read the book. You
can find it on Amazon, youcan go to Scott and Liz, his

(02:04:27):
wife. They have a website.Scott and Liz Brown dot com Scott and
Liz Brown dot com. You canget the book there. You can get
it through the Danny Oliver Foundation too. Our webpage all right, highly recommended.
Thank you, ever so kindly forbeing here. That's two full hours,

(02:04:50):
no break. Thank you, sirfor being here tonight. It was
my pleasure. Thank you absolutely astounding, and folks, thank you for being
here tonight. SA