July 9, 2024 • 28 mins
On today’s Bible Answer Man broadcast (07/09/24), we pick up where we ended on our previous broadcast and present more of an episode of the Hank Unplugged podcast. Hank is talking with Father Andrew Stephen Damick, author of Arise, O God: The Gospel of Christ’s Defeat of Demons, Sin, and Death. Hank and Fr. Andrew discuss how the Gospel is all about how Jesus solves the three biggest problems facing mankind—death, sin, and domination by demons; the reality of demons and the Harrowing of Hades, if technology is inherently evil, how the Old and New Testaments are not two different religions, and how “Christ is Risen” summarizes the Gospel.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:07):
From the Christian Research Institute in Charlotte, North Carolina. This is the Bible
answer Man Broadcast with Hank Anagraph.We're on the air because truth matters and
life matters. More on today's specialedition of the Bible answer Man. We
pick up where we ended on ourprevious broadcast and present more of an episode
(00:27):
of the Hank Unplugged podcast. Hankis talking with Father Andrew Stephen Damk,
author of A Rise o God,The Gospel of Christ's Defeat of Demons,
Sin and Death. Now let's joinHank and Father Andrew in their conversation.
Ancient people associated the heavenly bodies withangelic beings. So essentially what's happening is
(00:51):
that the angels, who had beenassigned to govern the nations on God's behalf,
that these nations begin to worship thoseangelic beings, and then the angelic
beings accept that worship. And thisis actually the origins of paganism, This
is the origins of the whole practiceof idolatry. So this is an angelic
fall, so to speak. Sothen what happens is then the third problem
(01:15):
of mankind, which is direct dominationby demons. So mankind having been initially
tempted by demonic presence, falls intodeath, and then overmastered by demonic presence,
falls into sin, Sin proliferates,and then completely submits to demonic rule
through this third problem that happens afterthe nations are divided. So those are
(01:38):
the three problems of mankind, death, sin, and domination by demons.
Jesus comes and he addresses those threeproblems in reverse order, right, So
the last one is domination by demons. One of the things you notice if
you read the Gospels is Jesus doesa whole lot of exorcisms. It's everywhere
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the Gospels, and it's one ofthose things that, until I realized what
was really going on, I waskind of wondering, Okay, what's the
deal here is it's just sort ofshowing its power. You know, he's
just healing people. I mean,of course he's healing people, but actually
there's this constant confrontation with demons thatJesus undergoes, right undertakes. You know,
he does exorcisms all the time,so he's casting them out. And
(02:23):
what he's doing is he's driving outthese dark powers that had been dominating mankind.
So he addresses this third problem withexorcism. Okay, So then the
second problem is the problem of sin, and Jesus's solution for sin is to
forgive sins. Now, in theOld Testament, there was the purity rituals
(02:47):
and so forth that were done inancient Israel to kind of keep that space
free from domination by demons. Right, it was a temporary solution, and
there were all the sacrifices that weredone to kind of manage the sins the
people, but it had to berepeated over and over and over again in
order to be effective. It didn'treally solve the problem. It just sort
of manage the problem. But whenJesus does exorcisms, those things go into
(03:09):
the abyss. They're out right,and when Jesus forgives sins, they're blotted
out. You don't need to keepdoing it over and over again, right,
And he provides the way of repentanceso that forgiveness can really hold for
people and become permanent. I'm thinking, as you're speaking, Father Andrew,
about the reality, and you certainlywrite about this in your book as well,
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that demons are central to the questionof why the Gospel is needed,
that the Gospel is in essence offull assault on the kingdom of devils and
demons. So when we think aboutthe Gospel, it is not just an
overthrow of the kingdom of Caesar,but it is an overthrow of demonic principalities
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and power. Is the very kindof thing that the apostle Paul talks about
in the Ethesians chapter six exactly.I mean, he says explicitly, our
struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against these dark powers. Right.
And indeed, the pagan rulers ofthe first century were all understood as
simply being in league with demons,that they were just sort of their vassals,
(04:17):
right, That the demonic powers werethe real enemy, and that human
beings needed to be rescued from that. Right. So yeah, it's not
really the defeat of Caesar. Imean, you know, earthly kingdoms come
and go. There's a much biggerproblem, which is these deathless powers that
are instead of taking care of mankind, which is what God assigned them to
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do, they oppress mankind. Right. So yeah, So Jesus takes care
of the third problem, then thesecond problem, and then he finally the
big finale to his ministry on thisearth is to defeat the power of death
itself, right, and we needto understand that death is not just simply
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the a kind of metaphysical problem ora biological problem. It is once again
a spiritual problem. And I don'tmean that in kind of a vague new
Age I feel spiritual kind of way. I mean that there is a spirit
that is involved with death. Oneof my favorite icons actually was one that
was given to me recently as agift, and it is an icon of
(05:19):
the harrowing of Hell. So Jesuswhen he dies on the cross, he
enters into the underworld, right,he descends into Hell, into Hades or
whatever word for the underworld you wantto use. And sometimes you see icons
of that, and you see Jesusleading the saints who are in the underworld
out they can go to Paradise.But sometimes when you see him enter into
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the underworld, the gates of Hadesare smashed right in front of him.
So he's just he walks up toany smashed I mean, he doesn't have
to struggle with it at all,because he's the maker of all things.
He doesn't struggle, right, youknow, he smashes down the doors.
And often when you look underneath thedoors, and I have this icon right
here in my studio where I work, right underneath the doors, you see
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the devil. He's been smashed downunder the gates of Hades, when Jesus
enters into the underworld, right,and that's the one who has the power
of death, says this in scripture. It's also you know, Saint John
in one of his epistles, saysthat Christ was manifest so that he might
destroy the works of the devil.Right, and this is the ultimate work.
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You know, he has the powerof death, and now even that
power is being taken away from him. So when Christ dies on the cross
and rises on the third day,there's a whole narrative that kind of happens
in between those two moments that hasto do with him entering into the underworld
and smashing down the gates of Hell, destroying the one who has the power
of death, leading the righteous upout of the underworld and into paradise.
(06:53):
Right, that's why it's called theharrowing of Hades. It's just the emptying
out of those who are righteous fromthis underworld. And so again you could
see that this problem that Christ takescare of permanently, which was the first
problem that mankind suffered. Is notjust a sort of experience of dying,
but actually being in the power ofthe one who holds the power of death.
(07:15):
Even ancient Pagans understood this, right, you know, I mentioned Hell
Hades. Whatever ancient mythology you wantto look at, the name of the
underworld and the god who controlled itare almost always the same, right.
So in ancient Greek mythology, forinstance, it's Hades, and it's Hades.
Hades is the one who rules Hadesin ancient Germanic. In Norse mythology,
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Hell is the one who rules Hell, right, although interestingly, in
Norse mythology, Hell is a youknow, the demon is actually female,
So the devil is female in Norsemythology, strangely enough, And so when
Christ defeats that power, it's understoodthat he's defeating an actual entity, an
actual spiritual entity. Right. Soagain, all three of the great problems
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of mankind, demons, sin,and death are all demonic. So domination
by demons, you know, areinfection by sin, are being you know,
having mortality. All of this comesthrough the influence of demons. Yeah,
I want to camp out on thisfor just a few more moments,
because, as you point out inyour book, demons are central to the
(08:22):
question of why the Gospel is needed. Demons were there when death came to
us, Demons were there when sinmultiplied, and demons were present in the
dividing of the nations and the riseof pagan idolatry, as you've just so
well laid out. So demons areagain central to our understanding of the Gospel.
(08:46):
And I noted in your book thatthere's a footnote, and I thought,
wow, this should not be relegatedto a footnote, but it was.
But there's a footnote in which yousay technology is not inherently demonic,
but demons give it to humans beforethey're ready for it, leading to their
destruction. And I was thinking abouthow you would cash that out, because
(09:09):
certainly, in the ancient world,the function of demons was a manipulation of
the world. In the modern world, the function of the use of technology
by demons or the demonic might entailsmartphones and having pornography in your hand and
gambling and reorienting our brains and allof what goes with that. Can you
(09:33):
cash that out a little bit.Sure. Yeah. So the reason why
it's in a footnote is because eventhough it's a super interesting strand to kind
of follow, it wasn't really centralto let us try to mention now.
But yeah, so you know,in the scriptures, this isn't really laid
out explicitly, but it's hinted at, right, But in some ancient pagan
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mythologies it's very explicit. The examplethat probably most of your listeners would know
would be from Greek mythology, whereyou have this figure Prometheus. So Prometheus
very famously gives fire from the godsto mankind, right, and from the
point of view of paganism, thisis great, right, But you know
it's interesting if you read the mythology, there's this dark undercurrent that's still there,
(10:16):
which is okay, yes, fireis a great tool, but it
also burns, it also destroys.It's also very dangerous. Right now,
The hints that we get in scriptureis that we see that the civilization that
Kane founds, it's noted there inGenesis that the rise of everything we might
think of as technology happens there.It doesn't happen where with Adam and Eve
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kind of living somewhere on the bordersof Paradise. Right, it happens within
came the prototypical center. His civilizationis where you know, metallurgy arises.
It's where, interestingly enough, evenagriculture and music, all of these things
arise. Stay right there will beback soon to read your Hank Hannigraf's conversation
(11:01):
with Father Andrew Stephen Damik in ARiiseo God, The Gospel of Christ's Defeat
of Demon, Sin and Death,Father Andrew Stephen Damik explains the spiritual war
that Christ won by his victory,how we are caught in that war's cosmic
crossfire, what the true content ofthe gospel is, and how we are
(11:24):
to respond to receive your copy ofA Riiseo God, The Gospel of Christ's
Defeat of Demon, Sin and Deathby Father Andrew Stephen Damik call eight eight
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Hanagraph and father Andrew Stephen Damik asthey continue their conversation. The rise of
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everything we might think of as technologyhappens with Cain. Cain the prototypical center
his civilization is where, you know, metallurgy arises. It's where, interestingly
enough, even agriculture and music,all of these things arise. Now you
might say, now, wait aminute, there's nothing wrong with metallurgy,
It's nothing wrong with you know,agriculture, music, right, But the
(15:35):
truth is is that these things,when given over and into the hands of
people who are not ready for them, can become very destructive. So metallurgy
obviously becomes the source of weapons.Mankind begins to kill each other on a
large scale, something not possible beforethe development of weapons technology. Right,
you know, agriculture, I meanit's in itself, it's good, right,
(15:58):
it's a good thing. But culturealso becomes a means by which human
beings begin to dominate one another asthey begin to control production and this sort
of thing. Right, Instead ofeveryone sort of feeding himself. It becomes
a large scale thing. And music, you know, is mentioned by a
number of what are called Second TempleJewish sources, and this sort of thing
as being the basis under which thingslike seduction and drunken revelry and all of
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this happens. Right, And sothe problem with these things is not that
they're inherently evil. The problem isis they're given to mankind and then they're
given in the context of doing evilthings. So this knowledge is given by
demons. And this thread continues onfor a while. So, for instance,
even after the flood, there area number of ancient sort of pagan
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god kings who their claim to poweris that they are in communication with demonic
spirits who lived before the flood andare going to give them ancient, secret
esoteric knowledge. Right. So thisis definitely there, and you know,
I time to get this question like, well, does that mean that technology
is evil? Or how can weknow which technologies are evil? Right?
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But the point is that technology isnot inherently evil, but rather the question
is how do you use it?Okay, So in order to use technology,
well, you need to be formedinto a righteous good person. And
then the righteous person is going touse technology well. Right. And one
of the reasons that we know fromscripture that technology is not inherently evil is
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not just because you know, manysaints, our Lord himself used it,
et cetera, et cetera. Butin the Apocalypse of Saint John, the
Book of Revelation at the end ofthe scriptures, when the Kingdom of God
descends onto the earth and kind offills the whole earth, it's depicted as
the heavenly Jerusalem. It's specifically acity. It's not, you know,
(17:53):
a pristine wilderness. It's a citythat is a shaped technological reality, right.
But it's completely pure and redeemed.There's nothing oppressive or dominating or evil
about it at all. Right,And so technology can indeed be sanctified,
but it's also dangerous, right.And that's the main lesson to kind of
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take away from that is is thatwe can't just say that all progress is
sort of inherently good. It hasto be used well and we have to
be careful and prayerful about it.Yeah, And I think you rightly relegated
that to a footnote, because's themain in the plain thing is to understand
what the Gospel is. And onthe one hand, you've given us an
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insight into what the gospel is.But to understand what the Gospel is,
you have to understand who Jesus is. And I found very fascinating in your
book as well, and you compresseda lot in a very short book,
quite frankly, but I found itfascinating that you the point that in order
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to understand who Jesus Christ is,you have to have the background music of
the Old Testament playing in your head, because Jesus doesn't just appear in the
New Testament. If you think ofthe Angel of Yahweh, that's a pre
incarnate appearance of Jesus Christ in theOld Testament. So there's so much that
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we can know about Jesus Christ.And even the very fact, as you
point out, that he's called Messiahis significant because this is again linguistic subversion.
This is taking a moniker and thenapplying it to Jesus. So the
moniker is not unique. It isnow taken from the culture and it is
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applied usefully to Jesus Christ, whois both divine and human, fully god
fully manned, the second person ofthe Holy Trinity, the divine person with
two natures human and yet without saying, but we have to have the background
music of the Old Testament playing inour ears. Yeah, exactly. I
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think one of the things that Iwant people to realize is that the Old
and New Testament are not two differentreligions, right. And my friend father
Stephen DeJong has done an incredible jobat laying all of that out in his
book The Religion of the Apostles.So I just really recommend that book to
everybody. But in my book,which usually say is very compressed because I'm
(20:26):
just trying to say, here's theGospel, one of the things that I
point out a lot of people mightrealize that there's sort of prophecies about the
Messiah in the Old Testament, andyou know, they realize, you know,
Christ says he's the son of David. That's an indication that the dividic
kingship really belongs to him, right. But one of the things that's also
said about him a lot in theNew Testament, he's described as being the
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son of the Most High God.And you know, if you don't realize
what that phrase means, most HighGod, then that just kind of comes
off as maybe, okay, well, that's kind of a big title,
you know. Of course, he'sthis of the Most High God. But
in the Old Testament there is neverdepicted this sense that only one God exists.
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In fact, the Old Testament usesthe word gods in plural to refer
to angels, to refer to demons, that is to say, fallen angels,
and including to refer to the spiritsof dead people. So that's why,
then, if these are all gods, and by that it simply meant
spiritual beings. Right, If theseare all gods, then what makes this
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one different from all the rest?Well, that's why over and over again
he's called the Most High God.That's a comparative term. If there's a
most High God, then that meansthere's other gods. Right. And also
it says over and over again inscriptures, who among the gods is like?
Unto you, O Lord? Youknow, the answer being none of
them. You know that he's completelydifferent from all the rest. Right,
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So when Jesus is called the sonof the Most High God, it to
say that he is the one whostands beside the Father, this most High
God and rules over all of therest of the spiritual world. Right,
And it's understood if you look closeat the Old Testament, that this son
of the Most High God is alsohimself the Most High God. That God
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is multiple persons. That's already inthe Old Testament. It's not something that's
new in the New Testament. Right. So, for instance, when Saint
John begins his Gospel, within thebeginning was the Word, and the Word
was with God, and the Wordwas God. What he's doing is he's
referencing something that's all over the OldTestament, which is that there's this figure
called the Angel of the Lord,or sometimes the Word of the Lord.
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That the language that applies to Yahweh, the God of Israel, is applied
to this figure, this Angel ofthe Lord or the Word of the Lord,
who is seen many times, manymany times in the Old Testament,
appears to people, you know,poke Samuel while he's sleeping fights in Israel's
battles. I mean, he's visible, right that this one whom they know,
this second person of Yahweh, theGod of Israel, he became fleshion
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dwelt among us. This is JesusChrist. Right. There are a lot
of theories floating around in the firstcentury amongst Jews, about how it is
that Yahweh that their God could bemore than one person. And if you
had asked the average first century Jewhow many persons is God, none of
them would have said one. Theywould have all said at least two.
(23:32):
Some would say two, some wouldsay three. And so there are a
number of theories kind of going aroundabout how that could possibly be the case,
How could there could be two powersor three powers in heaven? Right,
what the Apostles do and what allof the New Testament does is to
say this one understanding, where thesepersons, these three persons are all truly
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the God of Israel, truly themost high. This is the one that's
correct. And the second one ishow become flesh and dwelt among us.
So it's critical to know who Jesusis, But as you point out in
the book as well, it iscritical to know what Jesus Christ accomplished.
Yeah, yeah, and that's youknow, that's what I was describing earlier.
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Right, We've got these three problemsof mankind death first, then sin,
then demons dominating us, and hedeals with those things in reverse order.
Right, He drives out demons,he forgives sin, and then He
smashes down the power of death bydying himself, by rising from the dead,
and by making a way, asit says, for all flesh to
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incorruption to resurrection, and every singlehuman being is going to rise from the
dead. There's a distinction, mate. There are some who rise to a
resurrection of life and some to aresurrection of damnation, resurrection of judgment,
but all are going to rise.Death is going to end because all human
nature is redeemed. Right, SoChrist defeats these problems for you know,
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the whole cosmos, right, Andthis is the declaration that's so central and
critical to the Gospel. That's whywhen we say Christ has risen, that
summarizes all of it. You know, like that great sermon by Saint John
Chrisostom that is preached for Pasca forEaster. You know, Christ has risen
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in death is slaying. Christ hasrisen. The demons are fallen like it's
it's a blasting of the truth againstthe enemies of God. And it is
the most glorious good news possible formankind because we're being rescued from all of
that. We'll have to stop herefor today's special edition of The Bible answer
Man Broadcast. Join us again nexttime when we will continue Hank Hanagraft's conversation
(25:44):
with Father Andrew Stephen Damen, authorof Arise O God, The Gospel of
Christ's Defeat of Demons, sin andDeath. Our firm commitment here at the
Christian Research Institute is to defend thefaith once for all delivered to the Saints,
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From the Christian Research Institute in Charlotte, North Carolina. This is the Bible
answer Man Broadcast with Hank Anagraph.We're on the air because truth matters and
life matters. More on today's specialedition of the Bible answer Man. We
pick up where we ended on ourprevious broadcast and present more of an episode
(00:27):
of the Hank Unplugged podcast. Hankis talking with Father Andrew Stephen Damk,
author of A Rise o God,The Gospel of Christ's Defeat of Demons,
Sin and Death. Now let's joinHank and Father Andrew in their conversation.
Ancient people associated the heavenly bodies withangelic beings. So essentially what's happening is
(00:51):
that the angels, who had beenassigned to govern the nations on God's behalf,
that these nations begin to worship thoseangelic beings, and then the angelic
beings accept that worship. And thisis actually the origins of paganism, This
is the origins of the whole practiceof idolatry. So this is an angelic
fall, so to speak. Sothen what happens is then the third problem
(01:15):
of mankind, which is direct dominationby demons. So mankind having been initially
tempted by demonic presence, falls intodeath, and then overmastered by demonic presence,
falls into sin, Sin proliferates,and then completely submits to demonic rule
through this third problem that happens afterthe nations are divided. So those are
(01:38):
the three problems of mankind, death, sin, and domination by demons.
Jesus comes and he addresses those threeproblems in reverse order, right, So
the last one is domination by demons. One of the things you notice if
you read the Gospels is Jesus doesa whole lot of exorcisms. It's everywhere
(02:00):
the Gospels, and it's one ofthose things that, until I realized what
was really going on, I waskind of wondering, Okay, what's the
deal here is it's just sort ofshowing its power. You know, he's
just healing people. I mean,of course he's healing people, but actually
there's this constant confrontation with demons thatJesus undergoes, right undertakes. You know,
he does exorcisms all the time,so he's casting them out. And
(02:23):
what he's doing is he's driving outthese dark powers that had been dominating mankind.
So he addresses this third problem withexorcism. Okay, So then the
second problem is the problem of sin, and Jesus's solution for sin is to
forgive sins. Now, in theOld Testament, there was the purity rituals
(02:47):
and so forth that were done inancient Israel to kind of keep that space
free from domination by demons. Right, it was a temporary solution, and
there were all the sacrifices that weredone to kind of manage the sins the
people, but it had to berepeated over and over and over again in
order to be effective. It didn'treally solve the problem. It just sort
of manage the problem. But whenJesus does exorcisms, those things go into
(03:09):
the abyss. They're out right,and when Jesus forgives sins, they're blotted
out. You don't need to keepdoing it over and over again, right,
And he provides the way of repentanceso that forgiveness can really hold for
people and become permanent. I'm thinking, as you're speaking, Father Andrew,
about the reality, and you certainlywrite about this in your book as well,
(03:31):
that demons are central to the questionof why the Gospel is needed,
that the Gospel is in essence offull assault on the kingdom of devils and
demons. So when we think aboutthe Gospel, it is not just an
overthrow of the kingdom of Caesar,but it is an overthrow of demonic principalities
(03:54):
and power. Is the very kindof thing that the apostle Paul talks about
in the Ethesians chapter six exactly.I mean, he says explicitly, our
struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against these dark powers. Right.
And indeed, the pagan rulers ofthe first century were all understood as
simply being in league with demons,that they were just sort of their vassals,
(04:17):
right, That the demonic powers werethe real enemy, and that human
beings needed to be rescued from that. Right. So yeah, it's not
really the defeat of Caesar. Imean, you know, earthly kingdoms come
and go. There's a much biggerproblem, which is these deathless powers that
are instead of taking care of mankind, which is what God assigned them to
(04:39):
do, they oppress mankind. Right. So yeah, So Jesus takes care
of the third problem, then thesecond problem, and then he finally the
big finale to his ministry on thisearth is to defeat the power of death
itself, right, and we needto understand that death is not just simply
(04:59):
the a kind of metaphysical problem ora biological problem. It is once again
a spiritual problem. And I don'tmean that in kind of a vague new
Age I feel spiritual kind of way. I mean that there is a spirit
that is involved with death. Oneof my favorite icons actually was one that
was given to me recently as agift, and it is an icon of
(05:19):
the harrowing of Hell. So Jesuswhen he dies on the cross, he
enters into the underworld, right,he descends into Hell, into Hades or
whatever word for the underworld you wantto use. And sometimes you see icons
of that, and you see Jesusleading the saints who are in the underworld
out they can go to Paradise.But sometimes when you see him enter into
(05:42):
the underworld, the gates of Hadesare smashed right in front of him.
So he's just he walks up toany smashed I mean, he doesn't have
to struggle with it at all,because he's the maker of all things.
He doesn't struggle, right, youknow, he smashes down the doors.
And often when you look underneath thedoors, and I have this icon right
here in my studio where I work, right underneath the doors, you see
(06:05):
the devil. He's been smashed downunder the gates of Hades, when Jesus
enters into the underworld, right,and that's the one who has the power
of death, says this in scripture. It's also you know, Saint John
in one of his epistles, saysthat Christ was manifest so that he might
destroy the works of the devil.Right, and this is the ultimate work.
(06:29):
You know, he has the powerof death, and now even that
power is being taken away from him. So when Christ dies on the cross
and rises on the third day,there's a whole narrative that kind of happens
in between those two moments that hasto do with him entering into the underworld
and smashing down the gates of Hell, destroying the one who has the power
of death, leading the righteous upout of the underworld and into paradise.
(06:53):
Right, that's why it's called theharrowing of Hades. It's just the emptying
out of those who are righteous fromthis underworld. And so again you could
see that this problem that Christ takescare of permanently, which was the first
problem that mankind suffered. Is notjust a sort of experience of dying,
but actually being in the power ofthe one who holds the power of death.
(07:15):
Even ancient Pagans understood this, right, you know, I mentioned Hell
Hades. Whatever ancient mythology you wantto look at, the name of the
underworld and the god who controlled itare almost always the same, right.
So in ancient Greek mythology, forinstance, it's Hades, and it's Hades.
Hades is the one who rules Hadesin ancient Germanic. In Norse mythology,
(07:39):
Hell is the one who rules Hell, right, although interestingly, in
Norse mythology, Hell is a youknow, the demon is actually female,
So the devil is female in Norsemythology, strangely enough, And so when
Christ defeats that power, it's understoodthat he's defeating an actual entity, an
actual spiritual entity. Right. Soagain, all three of the great problems
(08:01):
of mankind, demons, sin,and death are all demonic. So domination
by demons, you know, areinfection by sin, are being you know,
having mortality. All of this comesthrough the influence of demons. Yeah,
I want to camp out on thisfor just a few more moments,
because, as you point out inyour book, demons are central to the
(08:22):
question of why the Gospel is needed. Demons were there when death came to
us, Demons were there when sinmultiplied, and demons were present in the
dividing of the nations and the riseof pagan idolatry, as you've just so
well laid out. So demons areagain central to our understanding of the Gospel.
(08:46):
And I noted in your book thatthere's a footnote, and I thought,
wow, this should not be relegatedto a footnote, but it was.
But there's a footnote in which yousay technology is not inherently demonic,
but demons give it to humans beforethey're ready for it, leading to their
destruction. And I was thinking abouthow you would cash that out, because
(09:09):
certainly, in the ancient world,the function of demons was a manipulation of
the world. In the modern world, the function of the use of technology
by demons or the demonic might entailsmartphones and having pornography in your hand and
gambling and reorienting our brains and allof what goes with that. Can you
(09:33):
cash that out a little bit.Sure. Yeah. So the reason why
it's in a footnote is because eventhough it's a super interesting strand to kind
of follow, it wasn't really centralto let us try to mention now.
But yeah, so you know,in the scriptures, this isn't really laid
out explicitly, but it's hinted at, right, But in some ancient pagan
(09:54):
mythologies it's very explicit. The examplethat probably most of your listeners would know
would be from Greek mythology, whereyou have this figure Prometheus. So Prometheus
very famously gives fire from the godsto mankind, right, and from the
point of view of paganism, thisis great, right, But you know
it's interesting if you read the mythology, there's this dark undercurrent that's still there,
(10:16):
which is okay, yes, fireis a great tool, but it
also burns, it also destroys.It's also very dangerous. Right now,
The hints that we get in scriptureis that we see that the civilization that
Kane founds, it's noted there inGenesis that the rise of everything we might
think of as technology happens there.It doesn't happen where with Adam and Eve
(10:39):
kind of living somewhere on the bordersof Paradise. Right, it happens within
came the prototypical center. His civilizationis where you know, metallurgy arises.
It's where, interestingly enough, evenagriculture and music, all of these things
arise. Stay right there will beback soon to read your Hank Hannigraf's conversation
(11:01):
with Father Andrew Stephen Damik in ARiiseo God, The Gospel of Christ's Defeat
of Demon, Sin and Death,Father Andrew Stephen Damik explains the spiritual war
that Christ won by his victory,how we are caught in that war's cosmic
crossfire, what the true content ofthe gospel is, and how we are
(11:24):
to respond to receive your copy ofA Riiseo God, The Gospel of Christ's
Defeat of Demon, Sin and Deathby Father Andrew Stephen Damik call eight eight
eight seven thousand CRII and make agift to support the Christian Research Institute's Mind
Shaping Life changing outreaches eight eight eightseven thousand CRI or visit our website at
(11:48):
equip dot org. That's equip dotorg. The number of wolves surrounding the
Christian flock is growing and they relishnothing more than docile's sheep, utterly incapable
of defending themselves from militant secularists athome to militant Islamists abroad. The assaults
(12:15):
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the benefits of membership, simply visitequip dot org. Once again, that's
equip dot org. The Complete Bibleanswer Book Collector's Edition is the comprehensive collection
(13:05):
of the most often asked questions HankHannigraph has received throughout his four decades as
host of the Bible answer Man broadcast. With more than half a million copies
already in print, this newly revisedand expanded Collector's Edition helped seekers and skeptics
alike sort through the truth on topicssuch as reliability of the Bible, religions
(13:26):
and cults, the resurrection and afterlife, and many more issues vital to a
better understanding of God in Christ andour relationship to Him. To receive your
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eight eight eight seven thousand CROI andmake a gift to support the Christian Research
(13:48):
Institute's life changing outreaches eight eight eightseven thousand CROI or visit us at equip
dot org. Has God Spoken?Are the words of Scripture merely human in
(14:09):
origin? Or are they, infact the very words of God himself?
Three years in the making and basedon two decades of research and reflection,
Hank Henagraph's monumental book Has God Spokenanswers what is surely the most important question
facing our world. In Has GodSpoken? Memorable proofs of the Bible's divine
(14:31):
inspiration, Hank counters the contentions ofthe Bible attackers and clearly shows that belief
in the Holy Scriptures is not aguess or wishful thinking. It is the
only logical conclusion after an honest examinationof overwhelming evidence. Order Has God Spoken?
From the Christian Research Institute by callingeighty eight seven thousand CRII, or
(14:52):
go online to equip dot org.Equip dot org. Let's now rejoin Hank
Hanagraph and father Andrew Stephen Damik asthey continue their conversation. The rise of
(15:13):
everything we might think of as technologyhappens with Cain. Cain the prototypical center
his civilization is where, you know, metallurgy arises. It's where, interestingly
enough, even agriculture and music,all of these things arise. Now you
might say, now, wait aminute, there's nothing wrong with metallurgy,
It's nothing wrong with you know,agriculture, music, right, But the
(15:35):
truth is is that these things,when given over and into the hands of
people who are not ready for them, can become very destructive. So metallurgy
obviously becomes the source of weapons.Mankind begins to kill each other on a
large scale, something not possible beforethe development of weapons technology. Right,
you know, agriculture, I meanit's in itself, it's good, right,
(15:58):
it's a good thing. But culturealso becomes a means by which human
beings begin to dominate one another asthey begin to control production and this sort
of thing. Right, Instead ofeveryone sort of feeding himself. It becomes
a large scale thing. And music, you know, is mentioned by a
number of what are called Second TempleJewish sources, and this sort of thing
as being the basis under which thingslike seduction and drunken revelry and all of
(16:22):
this happens. Right, And sothe problem with these things is not that
they're inherently evil. The problem isis they're given to mankind and then they're
given in the context of doing evilthings. So this knowledge is given by
demons. And this thread continues onfor a while. So, for instance,
even after the flood, there area number of ancient sort of pagan
(16:45):
god kings who their claim to poweris that they are in communication with demonic
spirits who lived before the flood andare going to give them ancient, secret
esoteric knowledge. Right. So thisis definitely there, and you know,
I time to get this question like, well, does that mean that technology
is evil? Or how can weknow which technologies are evil? Right?
(17:07):
But the point is that technology isnot inherently evil, but rather the question
is how do you use it?Okay, So in order to use technology,
well, you need to be formedinto a righteous good person. And
then the righteous person is going touse technology well. Right. And one
of the reasons that we know fromscripture that technology is not inherently evil is
(17:29):
not just because you know, manysaints, our Lord himself used it,
et cetera, et cetera. Butin the Apocalypse of Saint John, the
Book of Revelation at the end ofthe scriptures, when the Kingdom of God
descends onto the earth and kind offills the whole earth, it's depicted as
the heavenly Jerusalem. It's specifically acity. It's not, you know,
(17:53):
a pristine wilderness. It's a citythat is a shaped technological reality, right.
But it's completely pure and redeemed.There's nothing oppressive or dominating or evil
about it at all. Right,And so technology can indeed be sanctified,
but it's also dangerous, right.And that's the main lesson to kind of
(18:15):
take away from that is is thatwe can't just say that all progress is
sort of inherently good. It hasto be used well and we have to
be careful and prayerful about it.Yeah, And I think you rightly relegated
that to a footnote, because's themain in the plain thing is to understand
what the Gospel is. And onthe one hand, you've given us an
(18:37):
insight into what the gospel is.But to understand what the Gospel is,
you have to understand who Jesus is. And I found very fascinating in your
book as well, and you compresseda lot in a very short book,
quite frankly, but I found itfascinating that you the point that in order
(19:02):
to understand who Jesus Christ is,you have to have the background music of
the Old Testament playing in your head, because Jesus doesn't just appear in the
New Testament. If you think ofthe Angel of Yahweh, that's a pre
incarnate appearance of Jesus Christ in theOld Testament. So there's so much that
(19:22):
we can know about Jesus Christ.And even the very fact, as you
point out, that he's called Messiahis significant because this is again linguistic subversion.
This is taking a moniker and thenapplying it to Jesus. So the
moniker is not unique. It isnow taken from the culture and it is
(19:45):
applied usefully to Jesus Christ, whois both divine and human, fully god
fully manned, the second person ofthe Holy Trinity, the divine person with
two natures human and yet without saying, but we have to have the background
music of the Old Testament playing inour ears. Yeah, exactly. I
(20:06):
think one of the things that Iwant people to realize is that the Old
and New Testament are not two differentreligions, right. And my friend father
Stephen DeJong has done an incredible jobat laying all of that out in his
book The Religion of the Apostles.So I just really recommend that book to
everybody. But in my book,which usually say is very compressed because I'm
(20:26):
just trying to say, here's theGospel, one of the things that I
point out a lot of people mightrealize that there's sort of prophecies about the
Messiah in the Old Testament, andyou know, they realize, you know,
Christ says he's the son of David. That's an indication that the dividic
kingship really belongs to him, right. But one of the things that's also
said about him a lot in theNew Testament, he's described as being the
(20:48):
son of the Most High God.And you know, if you don't realize
what that phrase means, most HighGod, then that just kind of comes
off as maybe, okay, well, that's kind of a big title,
you know. Of course, he'sthis of the Most High God. But
in the Old Testament there is neverdepicted this sense that only one God exists.
(21:11):
In fact, the Old Testament usesthe word gods in plural to refer
to angels, to refer to demons, that is to say, fallen angels,
and including to refer to the spiritsof dead people. So that's why,
then, if these are all gods, and by that it simply meant
spiritual beings. Right, If theseare all gods, then what makes this
(21:33):
one different from all the rest?Well, that's why over and over again
he's called the Most High God.That's a comparative term. If there's a
most High God, then that meansthere's other gods. Right. And also
it says over and over again inscriptures, who among the gods is like?
Unto you, O Lord? Youknow, the answer being none of
them. You know that he's completelydifferent from all the rest. Right,
(21:56):
So when Jesus is called the sonof the Most High God, it to
say that he is the one whostands beside the Father, this most High
God and rules over all of therest of the spiritual world. Right,
And it's understood if you look closeat the Old Testament, that this son
of the Most High God is alsohimself the Most High God. That God
(22:19):
is multiple persons. That's already inthe Old Testament. It's not something that's
new in the New Testament. Right. So, for instance, when Saint
John begins his Gospel, within thebeginning was the Word, and the Word
was with God, and the Wordwas God. What he's doing is he's
referencing something that's all over the OldTestament, which is that there's this figure
called the Angel of the Lord,or sometimes the Word of the Lord.
(22:44):
That the language that applies to Yahweh, the God of Israel, is applied
to this figure, this Angel ofthe Lord or the Word of the Lord,
who is seen many times, manymany times in the Old Testament,
appears to people, you know,poke Samuel while he's sleeping fights in Israel's
battles. I mean, he's visible, right that this one whom they know,
this second person of Yahweh, theGod of Israel, he became fleshion
(23:10):
dwelt among us. This is JesusChrist. Right. There are a lot
of theories floating around in the firstcentury amongst Jews, about how it is
that Yahweh that their God could bemore than one person. And if you
had asked the average first century Jewhow many persons is God, none of
them would have said one. Theywould have all said at least two.
(23:32):
Some would say two, some wouldsay three. And so there are a
number of theories kind of going aroundabout how that could possibly be the case,
How could there could be two powersor three powers in heaven? Right,
what the Apostles do and what allof the New Testament does is to
say this one understanding, where thesepersons, these three persons are all truly
(23:55):
the God of Israel, truly themost high. This is the one that's
correct. And the second one ishow become flesh and dwelt among us.
So it's critical to know who Jesusis, But as you point out in
the book as well, it iscritical to know what Jesus Christ accomplished.
Yeah, yeah, and that's youknow, that's what I was describing earlier.
(24:17):
Right, We've got these three problemsof mankind death first, then sin,
then demons dominating us, and hedeals with those things in reverse order.
Right, He drives out demons,he forgives sin, and then He
smashes down the power of death bydying himself, by rising from the dead,
and by making a way, asit says, for all flesh to
(24:38):
incorruption to resurrection, and every singlehuman being is going to rise from the
dead. There's a distinction, mate. There are some who rise to a
resurrection of life and some to aresurrection of damnation, resurrection of judgment,
but all are going to rise.Death is going to end because all human
nature is redeemed. Right, SoChrist defeats these problems for you know,
(25:00):
the whole cosmos, right, Andthis is the declaration that's so central and
critical to the Gospel. That's whywhen we say Christ has risen, that
summarizes all of it. You know, like that great sermon by Saint John
Chrisostom that is preached for Pasca forEaster. You know, Christ has risen
(25:21):
in death is slaying. Christ hasrisen. The demons are fallen like it's
it's a blasting of the truth againstthe enemies of God. And it is
the most glorious good news possible formankind because we're being rescued from all of
that. We'll have to stop herefor today's special edition of The Bible answer
Man Broadcast. Join us again nexttime when we will continue Hank Hanagraft's conversation
(25:44):
with Father Andrew Stephen Damen, authorof Arise O God, The Gospel of
Christ's Defeat of Demons, sin andDeath. Our firm commitment here at the
Christian Research Institute is to defend thefaith once for all delivered to the Saints,
and equip believers to become true disciplesof Jesus Christ. In appreciation for
(26:06):
your vital gift to help strengthen andexpand CRI's mind shaping, life changing outreaches,
Hank would like to send you acopy of Arise, Oh God,
The Gospel of Christ's Defeat of Demons, Sin and Death. Call a resource
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(26:29):
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zip code two eight two seven one. The Bible answer Man Broadcast is
funded by listeners just like you.We're on the air because truth matters and
(26:52):
life matters more anyone who's been payingattention knows there's a war going on not
just on traditional morality, civility,and decency, but even more fundamentally on
historic notions of truth. And theenemy isn't just the onslaught of fake news,
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facilitated by a post truth culture andturbocharged by growing legions of ideological spinductors.
Note the real enemies of truth rangefrom postmodernist convictions that there is no
objective truth to militant scientism that claimsthat only science can determine truth and religion
is little more than primitive superstitions.But CRI Support Team members are not waving
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a white flag of surrender. They'reholding the fort by undergirding everyone of Christian
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