Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Big Fiz Show. You want fast talking,
hard hitting discussions on business and finance, maybe with a
barroom slant and some really salty peanuts.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
We're not counting calories, We're counting cash.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Before we get to the man with the financial plan,
meet the money team, Costa Mary now Captain Finance himself, Sully.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Whether you're watching, you're listening, we welcome you to the
Big Big Show. We're live inside the Loft one hundred
studios and as he like to say, around, be's here
part of sup big old boom boom like we've been
doing it for ten years straight.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
Let's go.
Speaker 5 (00:45):
It's so lame. It is. It's on T shirts everywhere.
Tendam cut just ask you to So you've been wearing
municipal gear. Looks we're one hundred and twenty five million
TV homes every day. We're on American Life Network.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
What are you saying? So?
Speaker 5 (00:59):
I'm could you yes? Wait wait there you are there's
your solo. Yeah this you go like this? Oh god? Ever,
I've been working on my short forces network in one
hundred and seventy five countries, allarships to say right like
I said, to say that crag three mmy spot, Tony's
in a restraining order? Are you being paid by municipal
(01:19):
on the side to where they're here? I am not,
truth be told, I am not. Harry Arnett and Mark
Wohlberg have decided to come on and the the official
wardrobe sponsor of Offside Sports show and oh so not
even this show. So so you know, so I interned
them to you on this show who you were not
even a part of at the time, and now you
can you know.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
I saw you who's our first guest?
Speaker 5 (01:43):
No, but we talked Howie he's stealing report? How he
found to lead analyst is right from New York here.
Good to see you, buddy. I know he has something
to say about Can you believe this? Is it? Is
there some sort of how is there sort of protocol
from Mike getting you know? Every year Mike and I
been in radio for thirty five years on radio riddle
(02:04):
while before we got in television. Yep, yeah, we run
for thirty five guys, we're big in the eighties, that
we're big and we're eighty. The bottom line is we've
been in radio intelevision for a long time. What do
we have to sign every year at the radio station.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
The plug all of Payola.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
You have to go through that testing all that crap
and saying you're not going to do it.
Speaker 5 (02:21):
So can you explain what Pluggle Appaela is. Plug O
Paela is taking side money, take a subsor for without
giving the good out, giving the networks some money, doing
exactly what I'm doing for what Pluggle and Payola are?
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Mike, I have one. I have one technical question.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, very market driven.
Speaker 6 (02:40):
Uh and you know, I don't know if it's going
to be over the audience's head.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
How do how does.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
One get in on this? In all honesty truth be told,
there are hoodies coming for three members up on stage
of the day, but not me, not for sullying. They're
going to calm here to the station, to the studio.
Speaker 5 (03:03):
But yes, I think we and I think I serous.
I think we have Mark Marulberg coming. I know we've
had Harry here when we all have to come. How
he By the way, did you get a medium of course? Okay?
Yeah for how we yep, Hey, Howie. We've been talking.
Speaker 6 (03:15):
About the next time I'm on the show, it's gonna
look like a Nascar.
Speaker 5 (03:18):
Yeah, It's like it's like remember ten Cup he was
out there with like like Joe's delhim or Rocky Cams
out there. I know, I know, advertize its. Last week,
Congress did something. Two bills were passed creating regulations on
crypto currencies called the Genius Act, and it's now it's
(03:39):
now in place here. Now, I would argue that, you know,
until there's adoptability in cryptocurrency, we're gonna have a little
bit of an issue. But at the end of the
day here, yeah, we all have the same forty dollars
in our wall or purse we have for six months
because they all use our debit cards, are using digital currency.
Talking about this real quickly, Yeah, I.
Speaker 6 (03:54):
Think something that's pretty incredible is that, you know, if
you wanted to communicate with me, uh thirty years ago,
you know, maybe you.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Were starting to send an email, but it is pretty
convenient probably a fact.
Speaker 6 (04:06):
So it was really urgent, uh, you know, if I
couldn't get there for a phone call or something.
Speaker 5 (04:11):
Mike was wearing. Mike was wearing a garage door opener
instead of a pager in the bars, so just just
to look cool.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah, no, exactly.
Speaker 6 (04:20):
I mean we had these things that could only.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
They could only beep. They couldn't they could send into
like one.
Speaker 6 (04:25):
Line of text, right, and it would mostly call me
back at the number.
Speaker 5 (04:30):
I know has one one one one one who had
different codes.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I don't remember, no, But that's why you weren't born yet.
Speaker 6 (04:40):
My point is that, you know, in that thirty years,
the way that we've changed communications technology has changed immensely.
I mean, uh, email, text message, social media, just the
amount of throughput we're sending, you know, four K video
instead of just one line of text and call me.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Back on a pager. But we haven't changed the pay
min rails.
Speaker 6 (05:00):
I mean, we're still using ahs, we're still using the
wire system. It's slow, it's clunky and for some reason
costs something you know, wire costs twenty five dollars each
way or something like that. And there's all these transaction costs.
But crypto is enabling at least that to get modernized.
And it's kind of you know, the bank's fault for
leaving this vulnerability to crypto because other countries don't have this.
Speaker 5 (05:23):
So basically, what.
Speaker 6 (05:24):
This legislation does and it sets rules, uh and and
you know, an even playing field around one whether or
not they're actually securities, which means the sec can regulate
them without destroying the whole industry. And then two the
Clarity Act that that says, you know, stable coins are
(05:45):
are okay, that these things that are one to one
with the dollar.
Speaker 5 (05:48):
So so, so what's I want to ask about? Yeah,
the thing about digital currency, let's say it's like a bitcoin, Okay, Okay,
the idea is we have a fiat currency anyway, you know,
let's talk about the US dollar. US dollar is a
global currency. All goods and services in this world are
priced with US dollars. I don't care what city you're in,
what state you're in, what country you're in. Everything is
(06:10):
price in the US dollars. So if you're buying oil
country to country, even in the UK, it's price in
the US dollars. Long story short, makes us a global currency,
but we are fiat currency like every other currency in
the world, meaning there's no gold standard, which goes back
to when Nixon took us off the gold standard, meaning
that it's a perception currency. Okay. Now, digital currency happened
literally when if I'm not mistaken, it was either Venezuela
or some city like Corfu was not had no confidence
(06:34):
in their currency, and they started trading seashells or something
instead for currency, and that's how global currency started. With
the problem was still it's a perception issue. So they
created a scene called the blockchain. Blockchain is the infrastructure
in which digital currency plays. So there's it's all transparency.
So I hand you a dollar, you hand me a potato.
It is now verified by a million people. But there's
no broker. There's no potato broker, there's no dollar broker.
(06:57):
And that's where this is going. My question for you, Howie,
is what does this do to change anything with the
Congress bills? Because until we have adoptability because right now, look,
the only thing I use bitcoin for is investing. Okay,
I realized some places take it, you know, usually only
elbows dot com will take cryptocurrency and a set of dollars.
But long story short, it's not a standard payment system
(07:17):
yet and for us to get there, I believe we'll
get there in the next decade, but it's kind of
have adoptability. So is that is this the onrap to that?
In your opinion?
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I think this is the unrap to that for a
couple of reasons.
Speaker 6 (07:26):
I mean, one, you know, if you get a business
to a certain size, you there's only a certain level
of risk that you're willing to accept. The it's offshore,
but the company tether that creates the tether tokens that
are one to one with the US dollar, so that
you can, you know, you take dollars, you buy tether
with them, use the tether, you buy bitcoin, whatever cryptotokens
(07:49):
you want.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
That company has I think.
Speaker 6 (07:53):
One hundred and four billion dollars. We're in vallians and
well in tokens. No, I mean, it's actually a much
larger company if you if you wanted to value it
based on its flows, because it collects it and it
buys treasury bills.
Speaker 5 (08:08):
So they're backing. So they're backing the value with what's traditional.
So what's rings question that stable coin? If stable coin
follows a dollar, right, yea or or or or or
several sables coins will follow, the u on will follow whatever.
If you're following the dollar, what's there's gonna having a
dollar at a stable coin because it's all it's all, it's
all perceived.
Speaker 6 (08:25):
That it gets to move on the blockchain, you get
more transclock chain, so it's more wise and yeah.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
So just so, in your opinion, if blockchain makes everything transparent,
why will we ever need sockbrokers, Why do we ever
need mortgage brokers, Why do we ever need here we
go car salesman.
Speaker 6 (08:39):
Yeah, honestly, listen, Robin Hood, this is veering, veering away
a little bit. But I think it's interesting enough to
talk about. Robin Hood bought a huge chunk of the
private company not SpaceX open a open, and they tokenized it.
So he said, Okay, we've got I don't know, call
it a billion dollars worth of open according to their
(09:01):
last valuation. Will split that into a billion one dollar
tokens and we'll sell it to people and they'll.
Speaker 5 (09:05):
Get the one dollar tokens have been sold for one
seventy now by the way, So I mean, honestly.
Speaker 6 (09:10):
But that's but that's but that's market.
Speaker 5 (09:13):
Uh, this ree market the company. My question is, what
is what difference between that and before we had the
SEC in nineteen twenty, when people said were selling two
hundred one hundred percent of their company, which causes stock
market crash, which suddenly the security extangecation comes in to
make sure that every share of stock and every company
is registered because that's what caused the great collapse of
theory depressions happened. Yeah, so the next roundabout.
Speaker 6 (09:32):
Shadow uh stock market in some ways.
Speaker 5 (09:36):
Not to mauch a derivative marget. So here's my question.
So our is going to be regulation because over regulation
is one thing, but regulation will keep us safe in
terms of knowing that if this is actually something that's tradable.
I mean, right now, look at we're sort of protecting
against stockfront because you have an sec I mean, listen,
there's always bad actors out there. What what is the
regulation's got to step up because I think we may
be putting the card before the horse here. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (09:56):
No, I do think that this is a big step
towards doing that because now it used to be that
it was kind of up to the courts or we
didn't know.
Speaker 5 (10:03):
You know.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Is my is how we token?
Speaker 6 (10:06):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
I created?
Speaker 5 (10:07):
That's token damn it?
Speaker 2 (10:09):
You know?
Speaker 5 (10:09):
Yeah, we we I.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Buy the heck out of that.
Speaker 5 (10:12):
You buy us. We bought six backs to the er.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
How we can I ask a quick question back to
the potato, I purchased Zigo in the front of my
or the back or the back of.
Speaker 5 (10:23):
Up take your tap if you're wearing a feto the
potato goat in front.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
All right, it's our.
Speaker 5 (10:30):
Big biz mark, How keep it here? How much more
to come with the show? Don't go anywhere? I mean
it was stop drunk rolling on for the Law one
(11:05):
hundred studios and he is the big biz show.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Help everybody out there is having a great day.
Speaker 5 (11:10):
We certainly are.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
That is the day Trader trio back there at the Mars.
We like to say all the time, don't know big
ole Howdie Tunia. No one has ever said that Hello World,
pass up Hello World, and so.
Speaker 5 (11:26):
Might get it in there what I said? Have you
ever seen Mike and Dave the Wedding Days? It is
the greatest comedy. Actually hang over the push pop? Yeah?
What's a push pop? What's a push pops? Honestly you
hear Mike and I quoting movies, not just Godfather. But
we have such an collective I think we should have
a movie, a big biz movie night here like the
(11:48):
audience in in the Waft Hunter Studios. We'll watch some
of our favorites, like just quote the whole thing, like uh,
Caddie Shack ye ourse, Michael David Wedding Days and then
The Godfather mon is it Thursday Wednesday, Leave the gun,
take the Canoli's. Shep Hiken is our guest, of course,
chief amazement officer or one of my one of my
man crushes here. I met him on a keynote speaking Evans.
(12:11):
He's he's one of the one of the best Kenot
speaks in the country. But he's also one of our
favorite casts because he talks about consumer amazement. He's the
author of that book called I'll Be Back.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
New York Times Wall Street General best selling author. Shep Hiken,
heir to the hike in Fortune. By the way, always
love to have him on the show. Mister Hiking, how
are you, sir?
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Hey, I think I'm gonna quote somebody a big howdy
to you.
Speaker 5 (12:35):
That is not a thing. That's not gonna be a thing. Shep.
It's on T shirts. Let's let's not make that a thing. SHEP.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Great to see you, brother, Great to be seen, Great
to be back.
Speaker 5 (12:46):
We gotta get your studio at some point to West Coast.
I'd love to see I'm missing I need to have
you in studio here. I got a question for you.
One of the first things you said when we first
started having you on the air a number of years
ago was that one of the issues was cust service
issues is the velocity of response. And you know my
book says my book one hour advantage or get more
(13:07):
sizzled done, as the other likes to call it. I
would argue that because I'm you know, I'm very firscripted
about my about my scheduling. I'm defense of my white
space on the calendar. I always say, if you if
you let somebody waste ten minutes of your time, or
you waste ten minutes of your time every day, that's
sixty one hours a year. My analogy is if you
get in the phone with the credit card company, there
are ten minutes of the day that you're wasting or
any customer service talk about velocity. Is that improving? Is
(13:30):
that improving anymore? Or is it still sity you have
to drive into your clients.
Speaker 7 (13:33):
Well, here's my question. Would you rather get your information
question answered right away? Or do you wait ten minutes
or even longer and.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
Or play an automatic prompt thing like ers because I'm
going crazy because I don't have to do ten minutes just.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
To get to somebody I know, And then you're screaming.
Representative Representative.
Speaker 5 (13:52):
That says, I don't understand representative, representative representative.
Speaker 7 (13:57):
One of the questions we asked in our annual research,
have you ever screamed in the phone agent or representative
over and over and over again. I can't remember the number,
but it's a very, very percentage of customers. Here's the point,
digital or AI customer service is becoming better and better,
and people need to recognize they have a choice. Do
they want the information now or do they want to
(14:19):
go through the pain and friction of being put on
hold answer asking a question, maybe being transferred to someone else,
and many times, so many times the questions they are
answered can be happening digitally. By the way, what's the
first thing you do when you want to find a
phone number of a company? As you go on on
the website?
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Right?
Speaker 4 (14:37):
Yeah, yeah, so here you google.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, you're already going digital.
Speaker 5 (14:41):
On that subject. A bit further do it on that subject?
Except my barber, okay, because that's a sumptuous hairline. I've
got to see him every three days. My barber. We
open up his own little barbershop in a nice part
of town. Also, you can book online, but he also
has a virtualis assistant that he played for the other day,
(15:01):
which is fantastic. It sounds it doesn't sound like the
old virtual assistance. It's hey, I can I help you here?
Would you like to do get a haircut? Okay, he's
available too. It was amazing how within thirty seconds I
could make an appointment literally thirty seconds, and shoes appointments
that are available next week for this guy based on
what a versual assistant. Is that part of the answer,
do you think or is that so a dangerous.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
One hundred percent part of it? But think about it.
Speaker 7 (15:23):
You call a doctor's office, your dentist to get a haircut,
why not go digital? Oftentimes, especially doctor things, you're a
little bit confidential.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
So you have an account, you log it, you put
in your password, and you.
Speaker 7 (15:34):
Get to look at the schedule availability and compare it
to yours, and you don't have to call, and you
don't have to have somebody put you on hold, and
then they come back, and then they're interrupted by somebody
that's in the waiting room that.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Wants to talk to whoever it is, it's talking to you,
and next thing you know.
Speaker 7 (15:49):
It is ten fifteen minutes of wasted time when it
can all be done in a minute.
Speaker 5 (15:52):
Or just hey, Seth, I'm gonna tell you just to
let you know, I just heard that you could have
a full head of hair if you were not getting
your haircut of the dentist. I'm just telling you right now,
both sheep. I am a loan back, Jep.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
I actually have anxiety now when I go get a
cup of coffee and I know that barista is going
to spin that keypad around to me and there's gonna
be the options of a twenty twenty two percent or
twenty five percent, thirty okay, And then there's also that
little box that says no tip.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
And I'm at the point now.
Speaker 5 (16:25):
Where but then but then you're embarrassed. It's like, well,
I'm kind of losing the embarrassment though. I'm just going
like and looking right at the face when I hit you,
you've turned to get off my law dad pretty much
pretty much.
Speaker 7 (16:38):
Well, I've gone to buy a candy bar at a
convenience store.
Speaker 6 (16:41):
No.
Speaker 5 (16:42):
Yeah, have you heard that bit about Bill Burr that said, uh,
he talks about Look, I paid for one hundred percent
of a sandwich. I'm not gonna go with the mayo package.
But I'm the customer last time. I know, I wasn't
working for Subway, So it's sort of like, what did
I become the cashier for Someway? Look, I understand they
can insfactor and I also understand, you know, maybe there's
(17:04):
a sense of security knowing that you're in part of
control of the transaction because all the father's gone on
and with digital currency and stuff. However, I'm not sure.
I'm not sure that that's the way we want to
go to the road. We want to go down here.
Let me talk to you about this, chep. I can
tell you I had the most satisfying customer service experience
about ten years ago. I talked to you about this recently.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Took years ago, No, no, no, I remember.
Speaker 5 (17:28):
I remember being on the phone with best Buy okay,
and it was a ridiculous notion. I can't remember what
the matter was. It was just ridiculous, like got charged
three times for something and it was like, you know,
the lady was absolutely rude. So I went and I
bought a share of best Buy stock. Bby called the
CEO of the company. You're never given to the CEO,
(17:49):
but you had a very I said, Hi, I'm a
I'm a shareholder. I'm also consumer and I got a problem.
And what of the greatest things was I got a
call back from the assistant to the CEO, said, let
me get on this, who talked to the regional manager,
who talked to the store, who talked to the phone bank,
and it was like it was. It was satisfying what
it brings. Look at I got my pound of flash.
But response to consuer feedback is something that was lacking
(18:09):
for probably the last fifteen years. Is that changing.
Speaker 7 (18:12):
I think it's still sometimes difficult to get what you want,
and I think the way you did it was perfect.
I suggest to everybody if you have a real problem.
By the way, I had a similar experience with Best Buy,
not with being overcharged, but I bought an item that
they saw it was back ordered.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
It was a computer.
Speaker 7 (18:28):
It was a great price. Why was it a great price?
It was the last generation of technology. They kept saying,
when we get it in, we'll send it to you.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
I said, you're never going to get in the last
wave of technology.
Speaker 5 (18:42):
And they sent you a TRS eighty computer from Radio Shack.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
It's a Commodore actually cloud.
Speaker 5 (18:49):
Last question, I'm sorry, step, last question for you. There
is an employee golden rule in terms of customer service.
And you've talked with this on stage. We've talked about
this in your book, talking about what it is, because
I think it's important.
Speaker 7 (19:00):
Essentially, it's if you're a manager or leader, you treat
the people who work for you the way you want
your customer treated, if not even better, because you set
the tone, you demonstrate the behavior, and what's happening on
the inside is felt on the outside by the customer.
Speaker 5 (19:13):
There you go.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Chef Pike in New York Times, Wall Street Journal, best
selling author of all be back how to get customers
to come back again and again.
Speaker 5 (19:20):
The good news he will be back on our show
as well. I took his advice and this is our
last meeting of me talking to our employees. And we're
better for it. Much more to come to the big,
(19:42):
big show.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Keep it here, my guys. Good to hear me.
Speaker 5 (19:47):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
We are inside the loft run hundred Studios.
Speaker 5 (20:06):
We have your watch him, we have your listen. We
always appreciate your being along for the ride.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Those gentlemen right there best see in the business, no
lessons self tought.
Speaker 5 (20:16):
Are you telling me they're the best. They're the best.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Band in the business program, and that's in this world pretty.
Speaker 5 (20:20):
Much any other band, Is there any other band that's
not a business program? Back here at the.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Bars and Sully as we roll on and another beautiful
bay it's their looks is here one of my favorite
guys already is I met one time?
Speaker 5 (20:32):
Mark Hurts, Doctor Hurts, Doctor Hurts. That's interesting, I know, yeah,
doctor doctor Hurts.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Doctor Hurts is the president CEO of g r I Bio, Inc.
Their ticker symbol is g r I. Greet you in studio.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
Thanks an awesome time.
Speaker 5 (20:47):
So yeah, all that zoom last week from your from
your closet at home and now you're now you're here
at the studio. Good to see you. We've we have
a chance to talk a number of times. You know,
let's talk about the therapy landscape of what you guys
do for the people's your last week reset real cookie
and talk about what Yard does because it's interesting to
hear kind of what you've done in the past and
(21:08):
how it's kind of lets you up to this company.
It was kind of a natural progression. It's almost like
you don't know what you don't know, but of course
you're here after what happened in the past.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
Right, yeah, exactly. So, Yeah, we work in a lung fibrosis,
idiopathic pomar fibrosis, which is an absolutely devastating disease typically
hits people in kind of their mid sixties seventies, two
to three year median survival from diagnosis, and so this
is this is rough the what are the symptoms actually?
(21:37):
Cough Yeah, silly, yeah, Shortness of breath, I mean.
Speaker 5 (21:42):
Is eating too much funions a tequila symptom because we're okay,
you're good, you're.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
Good, you're good, thank you. Yeah. So the eye in
the name idiopathic poller fibrosis means they don't really know
what causes it.
Speaker 5 (21:52):
Really. Yeah, it's almost like it's like something krsonov van
you on primary, right, It's almost like a cop It's
like when people get cancer and metastized and they can't
ever figure out where the cancer came from, right, even
even post people post mortem? So is this this is
this It's almost like pera carditis, you know, you have
you have your heart hits in a pericardium. It's a
sack and people get what's called the devil's grip and
they get fluid in their heart and they can't figure
(22:13):
out why it's not pervasive, but they think it's a virus.
It's not really lifestyle it's not Is this the same
type of things? Is you roll the dice?
Speaker 4 (22:20):
I mean so there so one it's it's often diagnosed
by ruling out everything else. So that's a problem because
it delays treatment. There are some things, so if you've smoked,
if you're that age, male. Unfortunately for us, it hits
men more than women. There's a couple other things that
are risk factors, but there's no clear cause Joe.
Speaker 5 (22:41):
Else hits men more than women women. Can I can
I ask you this? What's the what is the And
I hate to ask this question because it grow test market.
You're a question because you're in the business of curing,
which also in the business of being a public trade company.
What is the addressable market size in terms of.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
This, So it's a sizable market, it's an or an indication.
It affects about forty thousand Americans each year. There's two
approved drugs, and they sell forty five billion dollars.
Speaker 5 (23:08):
A year, so you've got a worldwide market. Are probably
closer to eight billion dollars.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Well, yeah, yeah, So is it a situation where a
degradation of the like lung tissue, your bronchial airways, things
like that, or is there just stuff that grows.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
Yeah, it's it's it's so it's fibrosis. So in the
small air sacks and the lung they stiffen as they
developed scar tissue, and it blocks the ability for oxygen
and exchange to happen. So they're constantly short of breath,
They tire easily, they have a persistent unproductive cough.
Speaker 5 (23:38):
They just you know, other than they opener indicators like
you talked about weight loss and coughing and fatigue and
so and so. Is there any have they done studies
on saying, well, triathletes that ride their bicycles more than
one hundred hours a year, or people that don't do
any physical exit, Is there anything like that, any any
physical there's no life celtics interesting.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
No, No, I mean, like I say, there's a couple
of risk factors, but there's no clear you know, so
the under.
Speaker 5 (24:02):
So the unmatp need here is for this specifically, Now,
can we before it gets exactly what your what your
therapy does? Is there any other indications that it would
potentially help.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Okay, yeah, so I mean if you take a couple
of steps back, fibrosis is the same whether it's in
your skin, your heart, your lung, kidney, you know you
have it. There's obviously some differences, but if you have
a really powerful antifibrotic, there's reasons to believe it would
be therapeutic and other fibronic does this have is there
is there.
Speaker 5 (24:29):
Is there a CPI? Is there is there an inflammation
indicator in this? Does it go along with inflammation? Is
this so part of it? Part and parcel?
Speaker 4 (24:36):
Yeah, so chronic inflammation is one of the drivers.
Speaker 5 (24:39):
So CRP goes up, maybe an indicator.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
Uh yeah, and just anything that that prolongs that inflammation.
So you know, inflammation for too long tends to lead
to problems, fibrosis being one of them.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
Doctor Mark Hurtz is the president and CEO of g
r I Bio, Inc. Their ticker symbols g r I
I can guarantee you all of us in this studio,
after you're off the air, going to be walking around
the building going to make sure, I mean, are there
are there things you can do?
Speaker 4 (25:08):
Obviously?
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Hey, maybe don't smoke, don't work in an asbestos building,
don't do that. But I mean, are there things you
can do to because we save it off?
Speaker 5 (25:17):
As people in their sixties have like twenty good summers
left and maybe five bad ones, but I mean they
got some life to live. Yeah, And this is why
it's you know, you know, sixties forty is a new sixty. Yeah,
I mean, honest to goodness, and sixties a new dead.
But the point is, my point is if if sixty
year olds are still considered act and they are active,
young people are and in this case men, is this
(25:40):
a life expectancy the issues you mentioned the very beginning,
is this is this something that you're on your Is
this the off ramp?
Speaker 4 (25:45):
Yeah? So, unfortunately, I don't have an answer to if
you just changed this one thing you're gonna protect yourself
under from IPF. I think it's common sense kind of things,
like you said, don't smoke or don't work in an
asbestos you know, riddled building. Okay, do you have any
CANDI reduced crime inflammation?
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Right?
Speaker 5 (26:01):
You know two things you talked about. You talked about
two treatments already. Yeah, I want to ask you two questions.
First of all, for the because the audience is going crazy.
Talked about what the therapy, what your therapy does? And
number two, why is it so difficult to introduce a
novel treatment, because I think that's that's part of the
that's part of the challenge here, right, So numbers what
is your what does your therapy do?
Speaker 4 (26:18):
So our therapy targets a specific lymphus site that's kind
of one of the bad players in chronic inflammation. If
you can turn off the activity of these cells, you
can reset the immune system. So for whatever the reason,
sometimes your immune system just gets triggered and it won't
turn off. That's it's actually chronic inflammation. And so if
you can reset that to homeostasis, you can affect everything
(26:41):
that's downstream of chronic inflammation.
Speaker 5 (26:44):
So it's but it's also you know, to go to
my privacy previous question, and then we're talking about g
r I O six two one or eight two one
six two one. This could be a bit way bigger
story in terms of not just other therapies, but the
entire reset of your inflammation system potentially.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
Absolutely, and that's definitely what we have been able to
show in preclinical models of different inflammatory diseases.
Speaker 5 (27:08):
So it's real looking to the ark of the story
for the FTA here. Okay, which and you've got a
number of therapy. Sure is the reason you go for
for this indication versus the over indication because this is
low hanging fruit. This is the fastest to NDIA fassage convercization.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
Correct.
Speaker 5 (27:20):
Okay, So talking about that where we're at.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
Yeah, so IPF poor in phase two. We actually have
top line data coming out later this year. That's kind
of the you know what we're all waiting for from this.
Speaker 5 (27:29):
And top plind data in this case is covering ONEFIC.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
This is covering thirty six patients treated for twelve weeks
looking at the ability two weeks.
Speaker 5 (27:37):
Yeah, that's it. You get it.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
You get enough of an idea of if you're moving
in the right directions to warrant going into the next
bigger study. In this case, the next bigger study would
be a phase to be pivotal, so potentially registrational.
Speaker 5 (27:50):
Right, So here's my question, says the CEO of a
public company for biotech. Okay, you're in it for the science,
and you're in you're basic quarterbacking. This's deal taking in
fifty thousand FI of view. So you've got three kind
of tracks right now going through that arc of the
story for the f T A. And then once you
got out to ask if you know in the back
of your head, okay, this thing could be a panacea
for this thing whatever fill in the blank. But the
(28:12):
fastest way because of regulation to get there is to
do this is am I accurate saying.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
That you're right. So, so the big indication in this
space would be MASH, which is a liver.
Speaker 5 (28:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
Yeah, that's metal mass versus it's now mash.
Speaker 5 (28:26):
Oh it's not okay, So NASH used to be cirrhosis
or was fatty liver, right, so fatty liver disease, so
it was NASH non alcoholic, okay, liver disease.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
And then they there's ash or cornb beef hash corby pash. Yeah,
and then they changed it to meta M stands for
metabolic disease. So it's really a metabolo.
Speaker 5 (28:43):
And once again it's interesting just because you got because
look at you, you guys are preclinic phase one. I
mean you've got three gr g R I T A
k T g I O ah three and g R
I O six two one. You're moving through this pretty
pretty similarly. I mean you're not that far because typically
you see arc of the story. For f T A,
you typically see the first line you know over here,
the other two down here. You're paying as much attention
to all of them. I'm assuming that's because it could
(29:03):
be an enterprise wide solution. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
They So we also work on autoimmune disease. Some of
these are focused there, but there's a lot of similarities,
and maybe auto immune diseases also have a fibroduct component
or even overlap with some of these diseases, so a
different liver indication. PSE often have ulcerat of clitus at
the same time, so there's a something's wrong and it
(29:26):
can manifest itself in different Why in the world.
Speaker 5 (29:28):
Would be so difficult for nominal therapies, I mean it
just seems like it really is. It's not the cure
for cancer, but it is a panacea for I mean,
what people don't understand about cancer as it all comes
down inflamation, inflamation, inflammation, inflammation R I mean, everything you
hear and like its good as good as going on
cancer therapies. I think we're only curing seven percent of
about cancers as a rule. So, so for me, why
(29:50):
would be so difficult to do nominal therapy? It just
seems like a natural laydown on this thing. I mean,
so it's a great question or is a criteria specific
to just this indication that that's that's a novel therapy
is difficult.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
For So for IPF, why is it difficult? That's a
question of why is why is developing novel therapeutics for
fibrosis difficult? And it's difficult because it's not a simple disease.
It starts with a really important thing. You have an injury,
You start a healing process. When that injury becomes prolonged
or repeated, it drives healing to chronic inflammation, chronic inflammation
(30:26):
to fibrosis. And so the challenge is where do you
where do you go in that?
Speaker 5 (30:30):
Well, here's here's what You're bringing a sledgehammer to the
fricking party with the twelve week COROWK therapy. I mean,
I would argue that, I would I would argue that
you know, it's it's it's a it's it's it's not
tell you I'm gonna keep you for a second. Let's
take quick breaks. I want to come back. Another question
for you that because there's there's a lot of near
horizon stuff that we can tell. There's some good news
to this bad news. Sure that's going on here.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
Mark Kurtz, President CEO g R, I bio in tip
the symbol g R.
Speaker 5 (30:52):
I keep it right here.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
Much more to come, many more questions to ask him
as the Big Biz Show rolls on and over one
hundred and seventy five touchings all the ships, that seems
(31:14):
if you hear us on the American Forces Network, as
we always say thank you to the brave men and
women of our United.
Speaker 5 (31:20):
States Armed Forces, what you do if you've done for us?
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Playing a little Ozzy Osbourne?
Speaker 3 (31:25):
Is the day Trader Trio back here at the bar,
It is Costa, it is Sully.
Speaker 5 (31:32):
Can I ask you this? So if you listen, if
you hear, if you hear, I'm looking at my phone
because I sent a textbout these guys. If you hear uh,
these guys play James E Star bass player was here's
my here's my question. Have you heard of the bands
Tony Braxton yes, Tyler Bell yep, James Ingram yep, Sir
(31:53):
Elton John who, Eric Clapton yes, and the Little Chris
and Night Callers at the Mirror Bason Bawl on Thursday.
I will that's James. He played with Little Chris Man,
Brian Jordan's Brian Jordan, James Brown, Dave Matthews, Uh, the
Almond Brothers, Ray Man Zeric in the Doors, Buddy Miles Uh,
and Mike's garage man. That's uh. And you don't look
(32:16):
look Counts Counta Barriss he gets by, was like, but
the two guys out there are the most humble two
guys in the band. And then there's me and Trace, Trace,
I'll do it. Who face? You played with some big names.
Speaker 8 (32:29):
This Marilyn McCoo of the Fifth Dimension, Lester Abrams, who
wrote Minute by Minute for the Doobie Brothers.
Speaker 5 (32:34):
Were you on stage with us when lest Ravers was here? Yes,
we got to sing and play with him.
Speaker 8 (32:38):
Yes, Uh that note he was gonna stay a couple
of weeks show Marilyn McCoo, Marilyn Hillie Davis Jr.
Speaker 5 (32:46):
Smoking still Yes, why does he give us something? Trace?
Don't you buy something out? Oh from me? From wah
there's want to get paid.
Speaker 8 (32:57):
Ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to this middle man's inch. This
autist made audible observations for mass production and mask consumption.
I'm a flaw school graduate ready for classes, trucked in now,
but thought was like helco, okay, scle.
Speaker 4 (33:10):
Down, I still be going. Uh.
Speaker 5 (33:14):
Have you heard of the Dan band?
Speaker 4 (33:15):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (33:16):
Yeah, you know who the damn man is?
Speaker 4 (33:18):
It sounds really familiar, Okay.
Speaker 5 (33:20):
Dan Man was first featured in a in a in
a movie called Uh was an Old School. They were
a wedding man for Will Ferrell and all this, and
they were singing. They were singing, turn around, turn Around,
bright eyes, and then he busts out like just all
these mas the song, and then and so and then
the producer for the Hangover saw the guy in a restaurant,
(33:40):
walked up and says, hey, can you come play in
the Hangover movies? And apparently he was on the set.
And then and the guy brought up. He says, can
you that cussing stuff? He goes, can I? And that's
how it ended up The fantastic. Our guest today is
Mark Kurtz, Doctor Mark Kurtz. He's the CEO and president
of g R I Bio. Uh talking about I p
F which is which is a which is a horrible disease.
We're talking abot How why it's so difficult to develop
(34:01):
novel treatments? Last question on that, is it the existing
big pharma because obviously the risk version model of this
business is you take it to the five yard line,
big farmer comes and takes it to commercialization. When there's
two drugs out there already, is there black helicopters outside
your office? Because is that One of the reasons it's
as tougher is it's more of an overall issue.
Speaker 4 (34:22):
It's it's the biology of the disease, which isn't even
specific necessarily for I p F, it's also for other
fibronic diseases. I mean, there's two approved drugs. They're both
coming off PAD and the big issue though is they
just aren't great drugs, so they slow the decline And
what does that help?
Speaker 5 (34:37):
Does that help the velossity of your of your path
through the FDA or do they do they compare? I mean,
because you because you have you know, we look at
comparables when we're talking we're dealing with business valuation there
do that when you deal with drugs?
Speaker 8 (34:48):
Huh?
Speaker 4 (34:49):
It helps some, I mean it helps that it's a
orphan indicate, not that it's gonna get you vest and
maybe put you in the front of the line because
it helps.
Speaker 5 (34:54):
It's a better therapy than what's existing out.
Speaker 4 (34:55):
There, right, I mean this is so no, the I
don't think the FDA thinks that way.
Speaker 5 (34:59):
So when if you had a better mouse trap, not
that you'd have to test the mouse trap, but wouldn't
you put it in the front line if it show
a promise?
Speaker 4 (35:06):
But everybody thinks their mousetrap is a better mouse trap
the middle top you up top line data. You have
pro data?
Speaker 5 (35:11):
Really today? Okay, yeah, okay, now we spend ten minute
second with the batterers. Let's talking at this there's some
exciting developments on the near horizons for this disease or
for this space. Right.
Speaker 4 (35:21):
So, there's been a lot of work being done in fibrosis.
Unfortunately a lot of it has not been successful. But
you learn from all those failures, not just the company,
but the whole field learns from those failures. And I
think where it's moving now is people have a better
understanding of what's driving fibrus is where to intervene. It's
this process that starts here and goes here. Where do
you go, do you Most therapies have started quite late,
(35:45):
so close to the actual you know, deposition of fibrousis
it's kind of too little, too late. I mean, it
was an obvious place to look first, but that's a
difficult ask to try to stop this kind of runaway
train when it's already going one hundred miles an hour.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
When you first started peeling back the layers of this
bloomin onion brought to you by bluemin onion brands anyhow, No,
but seriously, as you peel back those brand the layers
of it, did you, excuse me, have anything funny?
Speaker 5 (36:10):
Are you talking about authentic Australian food? Yes, exactly, like
one thousand percent.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
As you started it, did you have any concept of
how many people were affected? Or was it once you
kind of did the deep diver, Like, holy cow, it's
a lot more.
Speaker 4 (36:23):
Than you thought. So I think, what what we learned
in this process? We had an idea of the number
of people and listen, we we certainly understood the potential
in an anti fibrotic and how it can be rolled
out to multiple indications. Okay, what threw us was the
massive unmen need that still exists and that yes, there's
(36:46):
a lot of activity in the space. But you know,
drugs keep feeling for the same reasons. They have a
safety issue which doesn't allow you know, to use a
therapeutic dose or reduces what you can use. That's where
were one of our advantages as Moloch has already been
in like almost two thousand people.
Speaker 5 (37:04):
And on that subject, when when is the mean, I
don't know that. I'm sure there's there's rules around this.
When compassionate therapy is to come in, you'll you'll be
one of those drugs that has probably capacity therapy's program
at some point. When when is that allowed? Is that
down the road or is that something after top liner so.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
You can you can do kind of open latable studies
or h like you're saying, compassionate use kind of things.
There's a challenge for a company in that. I mean, one,
you have to make the drug. You're not looking to
make a profit. You're just trying to help people at
that and.
Speaker 5 (37:33):
You guys and you guys aren't making doses you know,
on the spot. You're researching the elements.
Speaker 4 (37:37):
So we make, you know, a little bit more than
what we think we're going to need. But we're not
making commercial scale yet there's you're.
Speaker 5 (37:42):
Talking about you're talking about fifty people, maybe you're twenty people.
To you, I'm talking about the thousands of people for compassion.
Compassions are really you know, it's a it's they allow
you to use compassion and if you don't understand compassion
is it's pre FDA approval. If the indication is it's
probably safe. Sometimes you can bring on people that have
really nowhere else to go. It's last it's last door
on the street for the disease to try to see
(38:04):
if this works in them. Now if if indeed we
have positive outcomes on capacity theory, it's not allowed in
the in data for for the FDA or do they
take it that in consideration?
Speaker 4 (38:13):
Yeah, so we so let's say, let's say we get
fantastic data at our trial. The top line data looks great,
we could consider doing kind of compassionate use or even
like what I'm calling open label studies where you allow
people to go on it. There's no placebo control arm.
Everyone's on drug.
Speaker 5 (38:28):
Whoever thought we would be so enthralled with it with
a with a biot pharma and a disease as we are.
You got to come back here, man, it's really interesting.
What's what? What's what are you looking most forward to
in the next six eighteen months is obviously obviously topling data.
What's an accept that.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
So we're doing a lot of what's called pharmacodynamic kind
of biomarker work in this study. So we're going to
not only see the you know, did it work, did
it not work, but we're going to do a lot
of work to actually understand exactly why and how it's working,
and that allows us to really tailor this for the
right patients the next syndication, really understanding exactly how this
(39:03):
drug works.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
Fantastic Doctor Mark Kurtz, President ce O g R I
bioins checker symbol g r I. We're gonna see a
lot more of him on The Big Biz Show.
Speaker 5 (39:14):
By the way, I I say, Jerry g r I
bio dot com, JR bio dot com.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
I gonna that is the website and this is the
goodbye because the Big Bis Show is over. As always,
thanks for being with us.
Speaker 5 (39:24):
We'll see you next time.
Welcome to the Big Fiz Show. You want fast talking,
hard hitting discussions on business and finance, maybe with a
barroom slant and some really salty peanuts.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
We're not counting calories, We're counting cash.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Before we get to the man with the financial plan,
meet the money team, Costa Mary now Captain Finance himself, Sully.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Whether you're watching, you're listening, we welcome you to the
Big Big Show. We're live inside the Loft one hundred
studios and as he like to say, around, be's here
part of sup big old boom boom like we've been
doing it for ten years straight.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
Let's go.
Speaker 5 (00:45):
It's so lame. It is. It's on T shirts everywhere.
Tendam cut just ask you to So you've been wearing
municipal gear. Looks we're one hundred and twenty five million
TV homes every day. We're on American Life Network.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
What are you saying? So?
Speaker 5 (00:59):
I'm could you yes? Wait wait there you are there's
your solo. Yeah this you go like this? Oh god? Ever,
I've been working on my short forces network in one
hundred and seventy five countries, allarships to say right like
I said, to say that crag three mmy spot, Tony's
in a restraining order? Are you being paid by municipal
(01:19):
on the side to where they're here? I am not,
truth be told, I am not. Harry Arnett and Mark
Wohlberg have decided to come on and the the official
wardrobe sponsor of Offside Sports show and oh so not
even this show. So so you know, so I interned
them to you on this show who you were not
even a part of at the time, and now you
can you know.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
I saw you who's our first guest?
Speaker 5 (01:43):
No, but we talked Howie he's stealing report? How he
found to lead analyst is right from New York here.
Good to see you, buddy. I know he has something
to say about Can you believe this? Is it? Is
there some sort of how is there sort of protocol
from Mike getting you know? Every year Mike and I
been in radio for thirty five years on radio riddle
(02:04):
while before we got in television. Yep, yeah, we run
for thirty five guys, we're big in the eighties, that
we're big and we're eighty. The bottom line is we've
been in radio intelevision for a long time. What do
we have to sign every year at the radio station.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
The plug all of Payola.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
You have to go through that testing all that crap
and saying you're not going to do it.
Speaker 5 (02:21):
So can you explain what Pluggle Appaela is. Plug O
Paela is taking side money, take a subsor for without
giving the good out, giving the networks some money, doing
exactly what I'm doing for what Pluggle and Payola are?
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Mike, I have one. I have one technical question.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, very market driven.
Speaker 6 (02:40):
Uh and you know, I don't know if it's going
to be over the audience's head.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
How do how does.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
One get in on this? In all honesty truth be told,
there are hoodies coming for three members up on stage
of the day, but not me, not for sullying. They're
going to calm here to the station, to the studio.
Speaker 5 (03:03):
But yes, I think we and I think I serous.
I think we have Mark Marulberg coming. I know we've
had Harry here when we all have to come. How
he By the way, did you get a medium of course? Okay?
Yeah for how we yep, Hey, Howie. We've been talking.
Speaker 6 (03:15):
About the next time I'm on the show, it's gonna
look like a Nascar.
Speaker 5 (03:18):
Yeah, It's like it's like remember ten Cup he was
out there with like like Joe's delhim or Rocky Cams
out there. I know, I know, advertize its. Last week,
Congress did something. Two bills were passed creating regulations on
crypto currencies called the Genius Act, and it's now it's
(03:39):
now in place here. Now, I would argue that, you know,
until there's adoptability in cryptocurrency, we're gonna have a little
bit of an issue. But at the end of the
day here, yeah, we all have the same forty dollars
in our wall or purse we have for six months
because they all use our debit cards, are using digital currency.
Talking about this real quickly, Yeah, I.
Speaker 6 (03:54):
Think something that's pretty incredible is that, you know, if
you wanted to communicate with me, uh thirty years ago,
you know, maybe you.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Were starting to send an email, but it is pretty
convenient probably a fact.
Speaker 6 (04:06):
So it was really urgent, uh, you know, if I
couldn't get there for a phone call or something.
Speaker 5 (04:11):
Mike was wearing. Mike was wearing a garage door opener
instead of a pager in the bars, so just just
to look cool.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah, no, exactly.
Speaker 6 (04:20):
I mean we had these things that could only.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
They could only beep. They couldn't they could send into
like one.
Speaker 6 (04:25):
Line of text, right, and it would mostly call me
back at the number.
Speaker 5 (04:30):
I know has one one one one one who had
different codes.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I don't remember, no, But that's why you weren't born yet.
Speaker 6 (04:40):
My point is that, you know, in that thirty years,
the way that we've changed communications technology has changed immensely.
I mean, uh, email, text message, social media, just the
amount of throughput we're sending, you know, four K video
instead of just one line of text and call me.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Back on a pager. But we haven't changed the pay
min rails.
Speaker 6 (05:00):
I mean, we're still using ahs, we're still using the
wire system. It's slow, it's clunky and for some reason
costs something you know, wire costs twenty five dollars each
way or something like that. And there's all these transaction costs.
But crypto is enabling at least that to get modernized.
And it's kind of you know, the bank's fault for
leaving this vulnerability to crypto because other countries don't have this.
Speaker 5 (05:23):
So basically, what.
Speaker 6 (05:24):
This legislation does and it sets rules, uh and and
you know, an even playing field around one whether or
not they're actually securities, which means the sec can regulate
them without destroying the whole industry. And then two the
Clarity Act that that says, you know, stable coins are
(05:45):
are okay, that these things that are one to one
with the dollar.
Speaker 5 (05:48):
So so, so what's I want to ask about? Yeah,
the thing about digital currency, let's say it's like a bitcoin, Okay, Okay,
the idea is we have a fiat currency anyway, you know,
let's talk about the US dollar. US dollar is a
global currency. All goods and services in this world are
priced with US dollars. I don't care what city you're in,
what state you're in, what country you're in. Everything is
(06:10):
price in the US dollars. So if you're buying oil
country to country, even in the UK, it's price in
the US dollars. Long story short, makes us a global currency,
but we are fiat currency like every other currency in
the world, meaning there's no gold standard, which goes back
to when Nixon took us off the gold standard, meaning
that it's a perception currency. Okay. Now, digital currency happened
literally when if I'm not mistaken, it was either Venezuela
or some city like Corfu was not had no confidence
(06:34):
in their currency, and they started trading seashells or something
instead for currency, and that's how global currency started. With
the problem was still it's a perception issue. So they
created a scene called the blockchain. Blockchain is the infrastructure
in which digital currency plays. So there's it's all transparency.
So I hand you a dollar, you hand me a potato.
It is now verified by a million people. But there's
no broker. There's no potato broker, there's no dollar broker.
(06:57):
And that's where this is going. My question for you, Howie,
is what does this do to change anything with the
Congress bills? Because until we have adoptability because right now, look,
the only thing I use bitcoin for is investing. Okay,
I realized some places take it, you know, usually only
elbows dot com will take cryptocurrency and a set of dollars.
But long story short, it's not a standard payment system
(07:17):
yet and for us to get there, I believe we'll
get there in the next decade, but it's kind of
have adoptability. So is that is this the onrap to that?
In your opinion?
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I think this is the unrap to that for a
couple of reasons.
Speaker 6 (07:26):
I mean, one, you know, if you get a business
to a certain size, you there's only a certain level
of risk that you're willing to accept. The it's offshore,
but the company tether that creates the tether tokens that
are one to one with the US dollar, so that
you can, you know, you take dollars, you buy tether
with them, use the tether, you buy bitcoin, whatever cryptotokens
(07:49):
you want.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
That company has I think.
Speaker 6 (07:53):
One hundred and four billion dollars. We're in vallians and
well in tokens. No, I mean, it's actually a much
larger company if you if you wanted to value it
based on its flows, because it collects it and it
buys treasury bills.
Speaker 5 (08:08):
So they're backing. So they're backing the value with what's traditional.
So what's rings question that stable coin? If stable coin
follows a dollar, right, yea or or or or or
several sables coins will follow, the u on will follow whatever.
If you're following the dollar, what's there's gonna having a
dollar at a stable coin because it's all it's all, it's
all perceived.
Speaker 6 (08:25):
That it gets to move on the blockchain, you get
more transclock chain, so it's more wise and yeah.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
So just so, in your opinion, if blockchain makes everything transparent,
why will we ever need sockbrokers, Why do we ever
need mortgage brokers, Why do we ever need here we
go car salesman.
Speaker 6 (08:39):
Yeah, honestly, listen, Robin Hood, this is veering, veering away
a little bit. But I think it's interesting enough to
talk about. Robin Hood bought a huge chunk of the
private company not SpaceX open a open, and they tokenized it.
So he said, Okay, we've got I don't know, call
it a billion dollars worth of open according to their
(09:01):
last valuation. Will split that into a billion one dollar
tokens and we'll sell it to people and they'll.
Speaker 5 (09:05):
Get the one dollar tokens have been sold for one
seventy now by the way, So I mean, honestly.
Speaker 6 (09:10):
But that's but that's but that's market.
Speaker 5 (09:13):
Uh, this ree market the company. My question is, what
is what difference between that and before we had the
SEC in nineteen twenty, when people said were selling two
hundred one hundred percent of their company, which causes stock
market crash, which suddenly the security extangecation comes in to
make sure that every share of stock and every company
is registered because that's what caused the great collapse of
theory depressions happened. Yeah, so the next roundabout.
Speaker 6 (09:32):
Shadow uh stock market in some ways.
Speaker 5 (09:36):
Not to mauch a derivative marget. So here's my question.
So our is going to be regulation because over regulation
is one thing, but regulation will keep us safe in
terms of knowing that if this is actually something that's tradable.
I mean, right now, look at we're sort of protecting
against stockfront because you have an sec I mean, listen,
there's always bad actors out there. What what is the
regulation's got to step up because I think we may
be putting the card before the horse here. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (09:56):
No, I do think that this is a big step
towards doing that because now it used to be that
it was kind of up to the courts or we
didn't know.
Speaker 5 (10:03):
You know.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Is my is how we token?
Speaker 6 (10:06):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
I created?
Speaker 5 (10:07):
That's token damn it?
Speaker 2 (10:09):
You know?
Speaker 5 (10:09):
Yeah, we we I.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Buy the heck out of that.
Speaker 5 (10:12):
You buy us. We bought six backs to the er.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
How we can I ask a quick question back to
the potato, I purchased Zigo in the front of my
or the back or the back of.
Speaker 5 (10:23):
Up take your tap if you're wearing a feto the
potato goat in front.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
All right, it's our.
Speaker 5 (10:30):
Big biz mark, How keep it here? How much more
to come with the show? Don't go anywhere? I mean
it was stop drunk rolling on for the Law one
(11:05):
hundred studios and he is the big biz show.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Help everybody out there is having a great day.
Speaker 5 (11:10):
We certainly are.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
That is the day Trader trio back there at the Mars.
We like to say all the time, don't know big
ole Howdie Tunia. No one has ever said that Hello World,
pass up Hello World, and so.
Speaker 5 (11:26):
Might get it in there what I said? Have you
ever seen Mike and Dave the Wedding Days? It is
the greatest comedy. Actually hang over the push pop? Yeah?
What's a push pop? What's a push pops? Honestly you
hear Mike and I quoting movies, not just Godfather. But
we have such an collective I think we should have
a movie, a big biz movie night here like the
(11:48):
audience in in the Waft Hunter Studios. We'll watch some
of our favorites, like just quote the whole thing, like uh,
Caddie Shack ye ourse, Michael David Wedding Days and then
The Godfather mon is it Thursday Wednesday, Leave the gun,
take the Canoli's. Shep Hiken is our guest, of course,
chief amazement officer or one of my one of my
man crushes here. I met him on a keynote speaking Evans.
(12:11):
He's he's one of the one of the best Kenot
speaks in the country. But he's also one of our
favorite casts because he talks about consumer amazement. He's the
author of that book called I'll Be Back.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
New York Times Wall Street General best selling author. Shep Hiken,
heir to the hike in Fortune. By the way, always
love to have him on the show. Mister Hiking, how
are you, sir?
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Hey, I think I'm gonna quote somebody a big howdy
to you.
Speaker 5 (12:35):
That is not a thing. That's not gonna be a thing. Shep.
It's on T shirts. Let's let's not make that a thing. SHEP.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Great to see you, brother, Great to be seen, Great
to be back.
Speaker 5 (12:46):
We gotta get your studio at some point to West Coast.
I'd love to see I'm missing I need to have
you in studio here. I got a question for you.
One of the first things you said when we first
started having you on the air a number of years
ago was that one of the issues was cust service
issues is the velocity of response. And you know my
book says my book one hour advantage or get more
(13:07):
sizzled done, as the other likes to call it. I
would argue that because I'm you know, I'm very firscripted
about my about my scheduling. I'm defense of my white
space on the calendar. I always say, if you if
you let somebody waste ten minutes of your time, or
you waste ten minutes of your time every day, that's
sixty one hours a year. My analogy is if you
get in the phone with the credit card company, there
are ten minutes of the day that you're wasting or
any customer service talk about velocity. Is that improving? Is
(13:30):
that improving anymore? Or is it still sity you have
to drive into your clients.
Speaker 7 (13:33):
Well, here's my question. Would you rather get your information
question answered right away? Or do you wait ten minutes
or even longer and.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
Or play an automatic prompt thing like ers because I'm
going crazy because I don't have to do ten minutes just.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
To get to somebody I know, And then you're screaming.
Representative Representative.
Speaker 5 (13:52):
That says, I don't understand representative, representative representative.
Speaker 7 (13:57):
One of the questions we asked in our annual research,
have you ever screamed in the phone agent or representative
over and over and over again. I can't remember the number,
but it's a very, very percentage of customers. Here's the point,
digital or AI customer service is becoming better and better,
and people need to recognize they have a choice. Do
they want the information now or do they want to
(14:19):
go through the pain and friction of being put on
hold answer asking a question, maybe being transferred to someone else,
and many times, so many times the questions they are
answered can be happening digitally. By the way, what's the
first thing you do when you want to find a
phone number of a company? As you go on on
the website?
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Right?
Speaker 4 (14:37):
Yeah, yeah, so here you google.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, you're already going digital.
Speaker 5 (14:41):
On that subject. A bit further do it on that subject?
Except my barber, okay, because that's a sumptuous hairline. I've
got to see him every three days. My barber. We
open up his own little barbershop in a nice part
of town. Also, you can book online, but he also
has a virtualis assistant that he played for the other day,
(15:01):
which is fantastic. It sounds it doesn't sound like the
old virtual assistance. It's hey, I can I help you here?
Would you like to do get a haircut? Okay, he's
available too. It was amazing how within thirty seconds I
could make an appointment literally thirty seconds, and shoes appointments
that are available next week for this guy based on
what a versual assistant. Is that part of the answer,
do you think or is that so a dangerous.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
One hundred percent part of it? But think about it.
Speaker 7 (15:23):
You call a doctor's office, your dentist to get a haircut,
why not go digital? Oftentimes, especially doctor things, you're a
little bit confidential.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
So you have an account, you log it, you put
in your password, and you.
Speaker 7 (15:34):
Get to look at the schedule availability and compare it
to yours, and you don't have to call, and you
don't have to have somebody put you on hold, and
then they come back, and then they're interrupted by somebody
that's in the waiting room that.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Wants to talk to whoever it is, it's talking to you,
and next thing you know.
Speaker 7 (15:49):
It is ten fifteen minutes of wasted time when it
can all be done in a minute.
Speaker 5 (15:52):
Or just hey, Seth, I'm gonna tell you just to
let you know, I just heard that you could have
a full head of hair if you were not getting
your haircut of the dentist. I'm just telling you right now,
both sheep. I am a loan back, Jep.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
I actually have anxiety now when I go get a
cup of coffee and I know that barista is going
to spin that keypad around to me and there's gonna
be the options of a twenty twenty two percent or
twenty five percent, thirty okay, And then there's also that
little box that says no tip.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
And I'm at the point now.
Speaker 5 (16:25):
Where but then but then you're embarrassed. It's like, well,
I'm kind of losing the embarrassment though. I'm just going
like and looking right at the face when I hit you,
you've turned to get off my law dad pretty much
pretty much.
Speaker 7 (16:38):
Well, I've gone to buy a candy bar at a
convenience store.
Speaker 6 (16:41):
No.
Speaker 5 (16:42):
Yeah, have you heard that bit about Bill Burr that said, uh,
he talks about Look, I paid for one hundred percent
of a sandwich. I'm not gonna go with the mayo package.
But I'm the customer last time. I know, I wasn't
working for Subway, So it's sort of like, what did
I become the cashier for Someway? Look, I understand they
can insfactor and I also understand, you know, maybe there's
(17:04):
a sense of security knowing that you're in part of
control of the transaction because all the father's gone on
and with digital currency and stuff. However, I'm not sure.
I'm not sure that that's the way we want to
go to the road. We want to go down here.
Let me talk to you about this, chep. I can
tell you I had the most satisfying customer service experience
about ten years ago. I talked to you about this recently.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Took years ago, No, no, no, I remember.
Speaker 5 (17:28):
I remember being on the phone with best Buy okay,
and it was a ridiculous notion. I can't remember what
the matter was. It was just ridiculous, like got charged
three times for something and it was like, you know,
the lady was absolutely rude. So I went and I
bought a share of best Buy stock. Bby called the
CEO of the company. You're never given to the CEO,
(17:49):
but you had a very I said, Hi, I'm a
I'm a shareholder. I'm also consumer and I got a problem.
And what of the greatest things was I got a
call back from the assistant to the CEO, said, let
me get on this, who talked to the regional manager,
who talked to the store, who talked to the phone bank,
and it was like it was. It was satisfying what
it brings. Look at I got my pound of flash.
But response to consuer feedback is something that was lacking
(18:09):
for probably the last fifteen years. Is that changing.
Speaker 7 (18:12):
I think it's still sometimes difficult to get what you want,
and I think the way you did it was perfect.
I suggest to everybody if you have a real problem.
By the way, I had a similar experience with Best Buy,
not with being overcharged, but I bought an item that
they saw it was back ordered.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
It was a computer.
Speaker 7 (18:28):
It was a great price. Why was it a great price?
It was the last generation of technology. They kept saying,
when we get it in, we'll send it to you.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
I said, you're never going to get in the last
wave of technology.
Speaker 5 (18:42):
And they sent you a TRS eighty computer from Radio Shack.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
It's a Commodore actually cloud.
Speaker 5 (18:49):
Last question, I'm sorry, step, last question for you. There
is an employee golden rule in terms of customer service.
And you've talked with this on stage. We've talked about
this in your book, talking about what it is, because
I think it's important.
Speaker 7 (19:00):
Essentially, it's if you're a manager or leader, you treat
the people who work for you the way you want
your customer treated, if not even better, because you set
the tone, you demonstrate the behavior, and what's happening on
the inside is felt on the outside by the customer.
Speaker 5 (19:13):
There you go.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Chef Pike in New York Times, Wall Street Journal, best
selling author of all be back how to get customers
to come back again and again.
Speaker 5 (19:20):
The good news he will be back on our show
as well. I took his advice and this is our
last meeting of me talking to our employees. And we're
better for it. Much more to come to the big,
(19:42):
big show.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Keep it here, my guys. Good to hear me.
Speaker 5 (19:47):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
We are inside the loft run hundred Studios.
Speaker 5 (20:06):
We have your watch him, we have your listen. We
always appreciate your being along for the ride.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Those gentlemen right there best see in the business, no
lessons self tought.
Speaker 5 (20:16):
Are you telling me they're the best. They're the best.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Band in the business program, and that's in this world pretty.
Speaker 5 (20:20):
Much any other band, Is there any other band that's
not a business program? Back here at the.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Bars and Sully as we roll on and another beautiful
bay it's their looks is here one of my favorite
guys already is I met one time?
Speaker 5 (20:32):
Mark Hurts, Doctor Hurts, Doctor Hurts. That's interesting, I know, yeah,
doctor doctor Hurts.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Doctor Hurts is the president CEO of g r I Bio, Inc.
Their ticker symbol is g r I. Greet you in studio.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
Thanks an awesome time.
Speaker 5 (20:47):
So yeah, all that zoom last week from your from
your closet at home and now you're now you're here
at the studio. Good to see you. We've we have
a chance to talk a number of times. You know,
let's talk about the therapy landscape of what you guys
do for the people's your last week reset real cookie
and talk about what Yard does because it's interesting to
hear kind of what you've done in the past and
(21:08):
how it's kind of lets you up to this company.
It was kind of a natural progression. It's almost like
you don't know what you don't know, but of course
you're here after what happened in the past.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
Right, yeah, exactly. So, Yeah, we work in a lung fibrosis,
idiopathic pomar fibrosis, which is an absolutely devastating disease typically
hits people in kind of their mid sixties seventies, two
to three year median survival from diagnosis, and so this
is this is rough the what are the symptoms actually?
(21:37):
Cough Yeah, silly, yeah, Shortness of breath, I mean.
Speaker 5 (21:42):
Is eating too much funions a tequila symptom because we're okay,
you're good, you're.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
Good, you're good, thank you. Yeah. So the eye in
the name idiopathic poller fibrosis means they don't really know
what causes it.
Speaker 5 (21:52):
Really. Yeah, it's almost like it's like something krsonov van
you on primary, right, It's almost like a cop It's
like when people get cancer and metastized and they can't
ever figure out where the cancer came from, right, even
even post people post mortem? So is this this is
this It's almost like pera carditis, you know, you have
you have your heart hits in a pericardium. It's a
sack and people get what's called the devil's grip and
they get fluid in their heart and they can't figure
(22:13):
out why it's not pervasive, but they think it's a virus.
It's not really lifestyle it's not Is this the same
type of things? Is you roll the dice?
Speaker 4 (22:20):
I mean so there so one it's it's often diagnosed
by ruling out everything else. So that's a problem because
it delays treatment. There are some things, so if you've smoked,
if you're that age, male. Unfortunately for us, it hits
men more than women. There's a couple other things that
are risk factors, but there's no clear cause Joe.
Speaker 5 (22:41):
Else hits men more than women women. Can I can
I ask you this? What's the what is the And
I hate to ask this question because it grow test market.
You're a question because you're in the business of curing,
which also in the business of being a public trade company.
What is the addressable market size in terms of.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
This, So it's a sizable market, it's an or an indication.
It affects about forty thousand Americans each year. There's two
approved drugs, and they sell forty five billion dollars.
Speaker 5 (23:08):
A year, so you've got a worldwide market. Are probably
closer to eight billion dollars.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Well, yeah, yeah, So is it a situation where a
degradation of the like lung tissue, your bronchial airways, things
like that, or is there just stuff that grows.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
Yeah, it's it's it's so it's fibrosis. So in the
small air sacks and the lung they stiffen as they
developed scar tissue, and it blocks the ability for oxygen
and exchange to happen. So they're constantly short of breath,
They tire easily, they have a persistent unproductive cough.
Speaker 5 (23:38):
They just you know, other than they opener indicators like
you talked about weight loss and coughing and fatigue and
so and so. Is there any have they done studies
on saying, well, triathletes that ride their bicycles more than
one hundred hours a year, or people that don't do
any physical exit, Is there anything like that, any any
physical there's no life celtics interesting.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
No, No, I mean, like I say, there's a couple
of risk factors, but there's no clear you know, so
the under.
Speaker 5 (24:02):
So the unmatp need here is for this specifically, Now,
can we before it gets exactly what your what your
therapy does? Is there any other indications that it would
potentially help.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Okay, yeah, so I mean if you take a couple
of steps back, fibrosis is the same whether it's in
your skin, your heart, your lung, kidney, you know you
have it. There's obviously some differences, but if you have
a really powerful antifibrotic, there's reasons to believe it would
be therapeutic and other fibronic does this have is there
is there.
Speaker 5 (24:29):
Is there a CPI? Is there is there an inflammation
indicator in this? Does it go along with inflammation? Is
this so part of it? Part and parcel?
Speaker 4 (24:36):
Yeah, so chronic inflammation is one of the drivers.
Speaker 5 (24:39):
So CRP goes up, maybe an indicator.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
Uh yeah, and just anything that that prolongs that inflammation.
So you know, inflammation for too long tends to lead
to problems, fibrosis being one of them.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
Doctor Mark Hurtz is the president and CEO of g
r I Bio, Inc. Their ticker symbols g r I
I can guarantee you all of us in this studio,
after you're off the air, going to be walking around
the building going to make sure, I mean, are there
are there things you can do?
Speaker 4 (25:08):
Obviously?
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Hey, maybe don't smoke, don't work in an asbestos building,
don't do that. But I mean, are there things you
can do to because we save it off?
Speaker 5 (25:17):
As people in their sixties have like twenty good summers
left and maybe five bad ones, but I mean they
got some life to live. Yeah, And this is why
it's you know, you know, sixties forty is a new sixty. Yeah,
I mean, honest to goodness, and sixties a new dead.
But the point is, my point is if if sixty
year olds are still considered act and they are active,
young people are and in this case men, is this
(25:40):
a life expectancy the issues you mentioned the very beginning,
is this is this something that you're on your Is
this the off ramp?
Speaker 4 (25:45):
Yeah? So, unfortunately, I don't have an answer to if
you just changed this one thing you're gonna protect yourself
under from IPF. I think it's common sense kind of things,
like you said, don't smoke or don't work in an
asbestos you know, riddled building. Okay, do you have any
CANDI reduced crime inflammation?
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Right?
Speaker 5 (26:01):
You know two things you talked about. You talked about
two treatments already. Yeah, I want to ask you two questions.
First of all, for the because the audience is going crazy.
Talked about what the therapy, what your therapy does? And
number two, why is it so difficult to introduce a
novel treatment, because I think that's that's part of the
that's part of the challenge here, right, So numbers what
is your what does your therapy do?
Speaker 4 (26:18):
So our therapy targets a specific lymphus site that's kind
of one of the bad players in chronic inflammation. If
you can turn off the activity of these cells, you
can reset the immune system. So for whatever the reason,
sometimes your immune system just gets triggered and it won't
turn off. That's it's actually chronic inflammation. And so if
you can reset that to homeostasis, you can affect everything
(26:41):
that's downstream of chronic inflammation.
Speaker 5 (26:44):
So it's but it's also you know, to go to
my privacy previous question, and then we're talking about g
r I O six two one or eight two one
six two one. This could be a bit way bigger
story in terms of not just other therapies, but the
entire reset of your inflammation system potentially.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
Absolutely, and that's definitely what we have been able to
show in preclinical models of different inflammatory diseases.
Speaker 5 (27:08):
So it's real looking to the ark of the story
for the FTA here. Okay, which and you've got a
number of therapy. Sure is the reason you go for
for this indication versus the over indication because this is
low hanging fruit. This is the fastest to NDIA fassage convercization.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
Correct.
Speaker 5 (27:20):
Okay, So talking about that where we're at.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
Yeah, so IPF poor in phase two. We actually have
top line data coming out later this year. That's kind
of the you know what we're all waiting for from this.
Speaker 5 (27:29):
And top plind data in this case is covering ONEFIC.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
This is covering thirty six patients treated for twelve weeks
looking at the ability two weeks.
Speaker 5 (27:37):
Yeah, that's it. You get it.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
You get enough of an idea of if you're moving
in the right directions to warrant going into the next
bigger study. In this case, the next bigger study would
be a phase to be pivotal, so potentially registrational.
Speaker 5 (27:50):
Right, So here's my question, says the CEO of a
public company for biotech. Okay, you're in it for the science,
and you're in you're basic quarterbacking. This's deal taking in
fifty thousand FI of view. So you've got three kind
of tracks right now going through that arc of the
story for the f T A. And then once you
got out to ask if you know in the back
of your head, okay, this thing could be a panacea
for this thing whatever fill in the blank. But the
(28:12):
fastest way because of regulation to get there is to
do this is am I accurate saying.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
That you're right. So, so the big indication in this
space would be MASH, which is a liver.
Speaker 5 (28:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
Yeah, that's metal mass versus it's now mash.
Speaker 5 (28:26):
Oh it's not okay, So NASH used to be cirrhosis
or was fatty liver, right, so fatty liver disease, so
it was NASH non alcoholic, okay, liver disease.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
And then they there's ash or cornb beef hash corby pash. Yeah,
and then they changed it to meta M stands for
metabolic disease. So it's really a metabolo.
Speaker 5 (28:43):
And once again it's interesting just because you got because
look at you, you guys are preclinic phase one. I
mean you've got three gr g R I T A
k T g I O ah three and g R
I O six two one. You're moving through this pretty
pretty similarly. I mean you're not that far because typically
you see arc of the story. For f T A,
you typically see the first line you know over here,
the other two down here. You're paying as much attention
to all of them. I'm assuming that's because it could
(29:03):
be an enterprise wide solution. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
They So we also work on autoimmune disease. Some of
these are focused there, but there's a lot of similarities,
and maybe auto immune diseases also have a fibroduct component
or even overlap with some of these diseases, so a
different liver indication. PSE often have ulcerat of clitus at
the same time, so there's a something's wrong and it
(29:26):
can manifest itself in different Why in the world.
Speaker 5 (29:28):
Would be so difficult for nominal therapies, I mean it
just seems like it really is. It's not the cure
for cancer, but it is a panacea for I mean,
what people don't understand about cancer as it all comes
down inflamation, inflamation, inflammation, inflammation R I mean, everything you
hear and like its good as good as going on
cancer therapies. I think we're only curing seven percent of
about cancers as a rule. So, so for me, why
(29:50):
would be so difficult to do nominal therapy? It just
seems like a natural laydown on this thing. I mean,
so it's a great question or is a criteria specific
to just this indication that that's that's a novel therapy
is difficult.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
For So for IPF, why is it difficult? That's a
question of why is why is developing novel therapeutics for
fibrosis difficult? And it's difficult because it's not a simple disease.
It starts with a really important thing. You have an injury,
You start a healing process. When that injury becomes prolonged
or repeated, it drives healing to chronic inflammation, chronic inflammation
(30:26):
to fibrosis. And so the challenge is where do you
where do you go in that?
Speaker 5 (30:30):
Well, here's here's what You're bringing a sledgehammer to the
fricking party with the twelve week COROWK therapy. I mean,
I would argue that, I would I would argue that
you know, it's it's it's a it's it's it's not
tell you I'm gonna keep you for a second. Let's
take quick breaks. I want to come back. Another question
for you that because there's there's a lot of near
horizon stuff that we can tell. There's some good news
to this bad news. Sure that's going on here.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
Mark Kurtz, President CEO g R, I bio in tip
the symbol g R.
Speaker 5 (30:52):
I keep it right here.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
Much more to come, many more questions to ask him
as the Big Biz Show rolls on and over one
hundred and seventy five touchings all the ships, that seems
(31:14):
if you hear us on the American Forces Network, as
we always say thank you to the brave men and
women of our United.
Speaker 5 (31:20):
States Armed Forces, what you do if you've done for us?
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Playing a little Ozzy Osbourne?
Speaker 3 (31:25):
Is the day Trader Trio back here at the bar,
It is Costa, it is Sully.
Speaker 5 (31:32):
Can I ask you this? So if you listen, if
you hear, if you hear, I'm looking at my phone
because I sent a textbout these guys. If you hear uh,
these guys play James E Star bass player was here's
my here's my question. Have you heard of the bands
Tony Braxton yes, Tyler Bell yep, James Ingram yep, Sir
(31:53):
Elton John who, Eric Clapton yes, and the Little Chris
and Night Callers at the Mirror Bason Bawl on Thursday.
I will that's James. He played with Little Chris Man,
Brian Jordan's Brian Jordan, James Brown, Dave Matthews, Uh, the
Almond Brothers, Ray Man Zeric in the Doors, Buddy Miles Uh,
and Mike's garage man. That's uh. And you don't look
(32:16):
look Counts Counta Barriss he gets by, was like, but
the two guys out there are the most humble two
guys in the band. And then there's me and Trace, Trace,
I'll do it. Who face? You played with some big names.
Speaker 8 (32:29):
This Marilyn McCoo of the Fifth Dimension, Lester Abrams, who
wrote Minute by Minute for the Doobie Brothers.
Speaker 5 (32:34):
Were you on stage with us when lest Ravers was here? Yes,
we got to sing and play with him.
Speaker 8 (32:38):
Yes, Uh that note he was gonna stay a couple
of weeks show Marilyn McCoo, Marilyn Hillie Davis Jr.
Speaker 5 (32:46):
Smoking still Yes, why does he give us something? Trace?
Don't you buy something out? Oh from me? From wah
there's want to get paid.
Speaker 8 (32:57):
Ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to this middle man's inch. This
autist made audible observations for mass production and mask consumption.
I'm a flaw school graduate ready for classes, trucked in now,
but thought was like helco, okay, scle.
Speaker 4 (33:10):
Down, I still be going. Uh.
Speaker 5 (33:14):
Have you heard of the Dan band?
Speaker 4 (33:15):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (33:16):
Yeah, you know who the damn man is?
Speaker 4 (33:18):
It sounds really familiar, Okay.
Speaker 5 (33:20):
Dan Man was first featured in a in a in
a movie called Uh was an Old School. They were
a wedding man for Will Ferrell and all this, and
they were singing. They were singing, turn around, turn Around,
bright eyes, and then he busts out like just all
these mas the song, and then and so and then
the producer for the Hangover saw the guy in a restaurant,
(33:40):
walked up and says, hey, can you come play in
the Hangover movies? And apparently he was on the set.
And then and the guy brought up. He says, can
you that cussing stuff? He goes, can I? And that's
how it ended up The fantastic. Our guest today is
Mark Kurtz, Doctor Mark Kurtz. He's the CEO and president
of g R I Bio. Uh talking about I p
F which is which is a which is a horrible disease.
We're talking abot How why it's so difficult to develop
(34:01):
novel treatments? Last question on that, is it the existing
big pharma because obviously the risk version model of this
business is you take it to the five yard line,
big farmer comes and takes it to commercialization. When there's
two drugs out there already, is there black helicopters outside
your office? Because is that One of the reasons it's
as tougher is it's more of an overall issue.
Speaker 4 (34:22):
It's it's the biology of the disease, which isn't even
specific necessarily for I p F, it's also for other
fibronic diseases. I mean, there's two approved drugs. They're both
coming off PAD and the big issue though is they
just aren't great drugs, so they slow the decline And
what does that help?
Speaker 5 (34:37):
Does that help the velossity of your of your path
through the FDA or do they do they compare? I mean,
because you because you have you know, we look at
comparables when we're talking we're dealing with business valuation there
do that when you deal with drugs?
Speaker 8 (34:48):
Huh?
Speaker 4 (34:49):
It helps some, I mean it helps that it's a
orphan indicate, not that it's gonna get you vest and
maybe put you in the front of the line because
it helps.
Speaker 5 (34:54):
It's a better therapy than what's existing out.
Speaker 4 (34:55):
There, right, I mean this is so no, the I
don't think the FDA thinks that way.
Speaker 5 (34:59):
So when if you had a better mouse trap, not
that you'd have to test the mouse trap, but wouldn't
you put it in the front line if it show
a promise?
Speaker 4 (35:06):
But everybody thinks their mousetrap is a better mouse trap
the middle top you up top line data. You have
pro data?
Speaker 5 (35:11):
Really today? Okay, yeah, okay, now we spend ten minute
second with the batterers. Let's talking at this there's some
exciting developments on the near horizons for this disease or
for this space. Right.
Speaker 4 (35:21):
So, there's been a lot of work being done in fibrosis.
Unfortunately a lot of it has not been successful. But
you learn from all those failures, not just the company,
but the whole field learns from those failures. And I
think where it's moving now is people have a better
understanding of what's driving fibrus is where to intervene. It's
this process that starts here and goes here. Where do
you go, do you Most therapies have started quite late,
(35:45):
so close to the actual you know, deposition of fibrousis
it's kind of too little, too late. I mean, it
was an obvious place to look first, but that's a
difficult ask to try to stop this kind of runaway
train when it's already going one hundred miles an hour.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
When you first started peeling back the layers of this
bloomin onion brought to you by bluemin onion brands anyhow, No,
but seriously, as you peel back those brand the layers
of it, did you, excuse me, have anything funny?
Speaker 5 (36:10):
Are you talking about authentic Australian food? Yes, exactly, like
one thousand percent.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
As you started it, did you have any concept of
how many people were affected? Or was it once you
kind of did the deep diver, Like, holy cow, it's
a lot more.
Speaker 4 (36:23):
Than you thought. So I think, what what we learned
in this process? We had an idea of the number
of people and listen, we we certainly understood the potential
in an anti fibrotic and how it can be rolled
out to multiple indications. Okay, what threw us was the
massive unmen need that still exists and that yes, there's
(36:46):
a lot of activity in the space. But you know,
drugs keep feeling for the same reasons. They have a
safety issue which doesn't allow you know, to use a
therapeutic dose or reduces what you can use. That's where
were one of our advantages as Moloch has already been
in like almost two thousand people.
Speaker 5 (37:04):
And on that subject, when when is the mean, I
don't know that. I'm sure there's there's rules around this.
When compassionate therapy is to come in, you'll you'll be
one of those drugs that has probably capacity therapy's program
at some point. When when is that allowed? Is that
down the road or is that something after top liner so.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
You can you can do kind of open latable studies
or h like you're saying, compassionate use kind of things.
There's a challenge for a company in that. I mean, one,
you have to make the drug. You're not looking to
make a profit. You're just trying to help people at
that and.
Speaker 5 (37:33):
You guys and you guys aren't making doses you know,
on the spot. You're researching the elements.
Speaker 4 (37:37):
So we make, you know, a little bit more than
what we think we're going to need. But we're not
making commercial scale yet there's you're.
Speaker 5 (37:42):
Talking about you're talking about fifty people, maybe you're twenty people.
To you, I'm talking about the thousands of people for compassion.
Compassions are really you know, it's a it's they allow
you to use compassion and if you don't understand compassion
is it's pre FDA approval. If the indication is it's
probably safe. Sometimes you can bring on people that have
really nowhere else to go. It's last it's last door
on the street for the disease to try to see
(38:04):
if this works in them. Now if if indeed we
have positive outcomes on capacity theory, it's not allowed in
the in data for for the FDA or do they
take it that in consideration?
Speaker 4 (38:13):
Yeah, so we so let's say, let's say we get
fantastic data at our trial. The top line data looks great,
we could consider doing kind of compassionate use or even
like what I'm calling open label studies where you allow
people to go on it. There's no placebo control arm.
Everyone's on drug.
Speaker 5 (38:28):
Whoever thought we would be so enthralled with it with
a with a biot pharma and a disease as we are.
You got to come back here, man, it's really interesting.
What's what? What's what are you looking most forward to
in the next six eighteen months is obviously obviously topling data.
What's an accept that.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
So we're doing a lot of what's called pharmacodynamic kind
of biomarker work in this study. So we're going to
not only see the you know, did it work, did
it not work, but we're going to do a lot
of work to actually understand exactly why and how it's working,
and that allows us to really tailor this for the
right patients the next syndication, really understanding exactly how this
(39:03):
drug works.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
Fantastic Doctor Mark Kurtz, President ce O g R I
bioins checker symbol g r I. We're gonna see a
lot more of him on The Big Biz Show.
Speaker 5 (39:14):
By the way, I I say, Jerry g r I
bio dot com, JR bio dot com.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
I gonna that is the website and this is the
goodbye because the Big Bis Show is over. As always,
thanks for being with us.
Speaker 5 (39:24):
We'll see you next time.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!