August 28, 2023 • 31 mins
“The Time of Our Lives” by Deborah Fezelle
In this book, Deborah Fezelle takes the reader inside the famous Juilliard School, down the halls of the Drama Division, and into the classrooms with her classmates.
Set in New York City during the early '70s, Deborah describes life both inside and outside of Juilliard. The backdrop is the Upper West Side, the Village, and the Times Square of that era.
During this interview Deborah Fezelle elaborates about her experiences described in the book. She expresses what it was like to experience New York for the first time as a young drama student during an incredible transformative period of her life.
For those who trained at Juilliard, this book is a trip down Memory Lane. For those who dream of becoming an actor, it's a road map for what it takes to survive in a business where "rejection is the norm and stability is a dream."
This interview is courtesy of HumorOutcasts.com
You can find Deborah Fezelle on X (Twitter) @mcdeare https://twitter.com/mcdeare?lang=en
Special thanks to Donna Cavanagh and Shorehouse Books.
In this book, Deborah Fezelle takes the reader inside the famous Juilliard School, down the halls of the Drama Division, and into the classrooms with her classmates.
Set in New York City during the early '70s, Deborah describes life both inside and outside of Juilliard. The backdrop is the Upper West Side, the Village, and the Times Square of that era.
During this interview Deborah Fezelle elaborates about her experiences described in the book. She expresses what it was like to experience New York for the first time as a young drama student during an incredible transformative period of her life.
For those who trained at Juilliard, this book is a trip down Memory Lane. For those who dream of becoming an actor, it's a road map for what it takes to survive in a business where "rejection is the norm and stability is a dream."
This interview is courtesy of HumorOutcasts.com
You can find Deborah Fezelle on X (Twitter) @mcdeare https://twitter.com/mcdeare?lang=en
Special thanks to Donna Cavanagh and Shorehouse Books.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:08):
All right, everyone, welcome tothe podcast. I am absolutely thrilled that
you are here. My name isBilly D's and I'm here today for the
people at humor outcast dot com.That is the place to take a humor
break. Also there is h OPress, Shore House Books. We want
to say hello to Donna Kavanaugh.And if you get a chance, check
(00:32):
out humor outcast dot com. Alot of great funny stuff on there,
all kinds of humor new content prettymuch every day. Do check them out
Humor outcast dot Com. On thestudio line with me today is Deborah Fazzel.
Deborah, Welcome to the program.Hello, Bill, how are you.
I am doing a fantastic Deborah hasbeen on the program numerous times.
(00:57):
You may know Deborah. Deborah iswell, she's got all kinds of things
on her resume. She's an actressor performer, an author, as she's
the author of the Nick mcdeer series. There's any number of books that follow
that character. And she's going totalk to us today about a book she
(01:17):
has titled The Time of Our Livesand what this book is about. In
the early seventies, Deborah was astudent at Juilliard and If you don't know
what that is, well we'll touchon it. But the bottom line is
a very prestigious performing arts school shewent to school. Some of her classmates
(01:38):
are names that you would certainly recognize. As a matter of fact, I
would go as far to say thatthey are household names. And she's going
to talk about that journey, whatthat experience was like. And I gotta
tell you, I did. Iknew this because I've interviewed you before,
but I didn't realize you when youtalk about your early days that you and
(01:59):
I. It's one thing to saywe have the same hometown, but you
and I have the same schools,the same streets. I mean, you
are from Canton, Ohio? Isthat correct? Is that was? What?
Were you born here? I wasborn there and then my father,
who was in the Air Force,moved us to San Antonio, Texas.
(02:23):
Okay, and then we came backwhen I was eight. Okay, Canton,
Ohio. For those around the worldthat may not know, probably what
we are most famous for is theProfessional Football Hall of Fame. And I'll
spare you a lot of football details, but suffice it to say, if
you do any research at all,the NFL actually started in this area.
(02:46):
Some of the biggest names, PaulBrown, namesake of the Cleveland Browns,
all those people are from this generalvicinity. So that's kind of what we're
famous for. But a lot ofpeople don't know that this is kind of
Northeast Ohio is pretty an active area. I don't know what it was like
(03:06):
in the early seventies. I'm gonnatouch on that with you, Deborah,
But Ohio right now is, likeI'm guessing, probably like the seventh largest
economy. We have agriculture here,we have energy here, we have technology
here, hospitals, medicine, theCleveland Clinic, all those places. That's
a very diverse economy. And wedo have arts here. As a matter
of fact, there's a film,an independent film thing there in Cleveland that's
(03:30):
doing very well. And this areaof kant Ohio gets overshadowed by the football
that's here, you know, OhioState and all this other stuff, but
it's actually a very active area forthe arts. Now, was that kind
of your experience there in the earlyseventies. Yes, I was very fortunate,
always grateful to grow up in thatarea. The people who taught me,
(03:55):
the theaters, the schools, LaymanHigh School, which is where I
went, which no longer exists unfortunately, was one of the best known high
schools in northeastern Ohio for their productions, for their musicals, and so I
was so grateful to be able togo to that school. And I did
(04:17):
a lot of role also while Iwas there. I learned a lot.
I had marvelous directors, there weresummer theaters to work in. I'm just
eternally grateful for all of the experienceI got there. The Canton Players Guild
was very big still, is Iguess. So I learned a lot and
(04:40):
there was a lot to draw from. And here's a big thing, Tom
Robbins, who I talk about inthis book, I went to Juilliard.
Now, they only take like thirtyfive students a year after auditioning all over
the country. But I went toJuilliard coming from Canton, Ohio, one
of thirty five. And two yearslater Tom Robbins, who also went to
(05:04):
Layman, who also worked at thePlayers Guilt, who also worked in all
those theaters around town, he gotinto Julliard. He was group six.
I was grouped four. So thatsays a lot about the people who taught
us who nurtured us as we weregrowing up. Yeah, and mentioned I
(05:26):
don't want to mention their names,but some of the teachers that you credit
in your book at Layman, Icame along probably five or ten years later.
Later to high school. I wentto McKinley, and a lot of
those teachers were there, So Iknew some of your teachers, probably about
ten years apart. But nonetheless Iknew a lot of your teachers. So
it was really interesting to go throughthat part of the book. When you
(05:48):
were young, you know, thatage, let's say, and maybe grade
school things like that. Were youWere you a born performer? Were you
somebody that you know, I didthe imitations, stood up in front of
people and did stuff. Was thatin your blood from the very beginning or
did that kind of evolve with insideyou? I was a total ham from
the time I sprung from the grave. That's what my mom always said.
(06:11):
Anyway, I loved it. Ijust loved it. I loved being someone
else. I loved creating all thesecharacters. I would study people on TV
and imitate them. But it wasalways the musicals that drew me. I
loved Broadway musicals, and so Iwould go out and get all the cast
albums, memorize them, perform themfrom beginning to I knew every show by
(06:35):
heart, so yeah, it wasin me forever. Yeah, I kind
of wondering. I kind of believethat that's kind of, you know,
in someone's in someone's blood. Rightfrom the very beginning, I've found an
interesting mix. We're gonna talk aboutJuilliard and just very briefly, if you
don't know what Juilliard is. It'sa very prestigious performing arts school in New
(06:59):
York, and it's probably best knownfor the movie Fame. If you remember
that, that was the storyline kindof went, that was the place where
the school where that story happened,where that movie actually the story Fame was
the performing the high school of PerformingArts, which was always a prelude to
going to Juilliard. Though oh okay, I got you, so I stand
(07:20):
corrected, and you were in thedrama portion. Okay, you were in
the drama portion of the school.Okay, that's good to know. But
anyway, none less, I wantedto give people a frame or reference how
important the arts were to these particulartypes of students. I mean, this
is what they what they lived for. I've known a lot of performers,
(07:44):
and I gotta tell you there seemsto be two types. And I'll have
you speak to this. There's thenarcissist. You know, there's the person
who's going to stand in front ofyou and say look at me, okay,
and then there's going to be theother one. And I did a
little bit of stand up for awhile, and I've noticed that in the
headliners that I met, they weren'tthe life of the party when when you
(08:07):
were behind and stage with them,are out with them socially, they weren't
the guys that were standing on thebar stools. They were very reserved and
it was almost like they have it. They had a little bit of vulnerability
to them. They have this gentleside that is very tender. It was
that as your your experience with performers, I will I agree with you.
(08:30):
There are two types. The seriousactors, very serious actors, the kind
that want to train, that wantto learn, that want to grow.
They're not the narcissists, okay,but there's an awful lot of narcissists out
in LA. The movie industry isa whole different ball game. Yeah.
(08:52):
No, the people that I workedwith. Well, there's always the rare
exception. But the people that Iworked with, they were actors down to
their core. They wanted to bethe best of the best in that and
it wasn't that you dreamed of stardom. You wanted to be a working actor,
which is very hard to accomplish.There are so many people out there.
(09:16):
You're up against so much competition.And I urge any serious young actor
who wants to go into the theaterget some training. It's the first thing
a director looks at on your resume. Yeah, I would agree with you
that the serious actors have a vulnerableside. I think they call upon that
(09:37):
a lot of times, especially onesthat do dramatic roles, although comedic actors
very good doing drama as well.There's just something about what you can call
upon to affect an audience when you'relive in front of them, that you
can call upon when when you're acting, either on film or stage. I
might as well go right to someonethat is a very good example of what
(10:03):
you're talking about. That someone Iwent to school with, Robin Williams.
Now, when I knew him,he was very young, we were all
just starting out. He was notnobody knew him. You know, what
happened with Robin out in La happenedyears after Juilliard, not so very long,
(10:24):
but years after Juilliard. When Iworked with him, he was kind
of just exactly what you were describingme. He was vulnerable, he was
shy. My boyfriend and I hungout with him all the time. I
played opposite him in Night of theIguana. When he first came to Juilliard,
he came in as an advanced student, which is in your third it's
(10:46):
a four year training program. Inyour third year, the school brings in
two or three what they call advancedstudents who rounds out your class because at
that point we start out with thirtyfive year down to about sixteen when you
get to your third year, andso they kind of round out the class,
but also they're expected to be atthe same level that you're at after
(11:11):
two years of training. So Robincame in as an advanced student. His
first production was Night of the Iguana, and he played my grandfather, a
demented old man, a poet,and he was brilliant. I mean it
was the most dramatic, incredible performance. I loved working with him. We
(11:31):
totally connected and we became great friends. Our friendship, of course didn't last
after he went out to Hollywood,but then things change with actors. It's
hard to stay in touch. ButI relished every moment of working with him,
and he did have that sweetness.There was sweetness to Robin and a
(11:52):
vulnerability. He was very smart,very intelligent, photographic memory and philosophical.
I just thoroughly enjoyed him. Yeah, you know, it's not uncommon for
classmates in any type of schooling togo their separate ways in these track of
(12:13):
people, I've lost track of mostof the people that I've gone to school
with over the years, and unfortunatelythat's just the way life is, you
know, speaking of vulnerabilities. AndI'm only mentioning this because you touch on
it in your book at several differentpoints. The effect that your father had
on you. Yeah, you wantto talk a little bit about that,
what it was and how it impactedyou as a performer. Well, he
(12:37):
was a military man, buy thebook. Military man, not an overtly
affectionate man, and quite demanding onme. It's a difficult story to tell
because there are people still around lovedhim dearly, and I don't want to
(13:05):
to denigrate him too much. Buthe never made me feel adequate enough.
He never made me feel like Icould could do it. I mean,
yes, he when I wanted togo to Juilliard, he went for it.
He never tried to stop me.But he was never big on my
becoming an actress. And so Ithink part of my I say in the
(13:30):
book, and it's really true thatso many actors become actors when you dig
into their past. There was somethingin their childhood that drove them to the
stage, that made them want toget up in front of people and perform
and feel that love. Because that'swhat applause is. Applause is love coming
(13:52):
at you and becoming someone else.And that's what I did. I didn't
really was it until years later,you know, after Psychoana all the shrinks
and all of that stuff sorted allout, you realize, oh, okay,
that's why I did that. ButI wanted to be someone else,
and so that's what I could do. I could get on a stage and
(14:15):
become someone else, and that's Ireally did. I mean, I totally
would imburse myself in a character.I loved every moment of it. Yeah,
I can certainly empathize with that.I had a domineering father as well,
very alpha male. I wanted meto play football, you know,
getting back to the football thing,and it wasn't it wasn't in my blood
(14:37):
to that level. In my graduatingthe same year, competing high school Chris
Spielman, who became a professional footballplayer. He was the first high school
player in my in my graduating classof the year of nineteen eighty three that
was featured on a box of wheaties. And I was never going to be
(14:58):
that guy. It just, youknow, to to to play on that
level, you it has to beingrained in your system. Yeah, And
I always felt like I was adisappointment because I didn't play football when I
got all over And that can bevery hard to overcome. Being that you
had that that vulnerability, you know, that was kind of put onto you.
(15:20):
I would imagine you talk in yourbook, you describe a lot of
the faculty critiques. As a voiceover artist, I can tell you that
you got to get used to it. People just plat out tell you,
hey, I don't like your voicenext, okay, And but for you
know a lot of people, thatcan be devastating, depending how far it
goes. How how did you handlethat? And how did your class handle
(15:41):
that? Well, they make youover. I mean you come into Juilliard
and they we call it, theystrip you, bar they take away everything
you've ever learned, throw it outthe window, and retrain you. I
came in with a combination of amid My speech was a Midwest twang and
(16:07):
a Texas drawl. I mean,my speech teachers tore their hair out when
they first heard me speak, becauseyou have to learn an international dialect.
You do Shakespeare, you do allthese different kinds of plays, and you
cannot have a Southern accent. Youcannot have a New England what is I
forget what they call the New Englandaccent. But you've got to be able
(16:30):
to speak not the King's English,although in Shakespeare you should, but you
need to have proper speech. Myvoice I didn't have too much of a
problem with it, but there werepeople in my class. I speak of
one guy in particular who I adored. They just never let up on him.
(16:52):
They never liked his voice. Theysaid he didn't have a stage voice
that and no matter what they didwith him, I mean, they just
beat him down to the point wherehe left at the end of the second
year and ended up having an incrediblecareer. I mean he's now he does
commercials all the time. He's he'sjust having he's a director. He's performed
(17:15):
on stage all over the place.There's a saying, I mean, I
know him getting off topic a littlebit, but there's a saying among Juilliard's
students, kind of a joke thatyou don't want to graduate because the ones
who really make it are the oneswho don't graduate. Yeah, and there's
that's even in the book. Ithink it's Eric Lassal who who I quote
(17:38):
in the book about that. Butso many do not graduate. I mean,
my class started with thirty six orthirty seven, I can't remember now,
and we graduated six, but thenmy class imploded in the third year.
M interesting. You know there's anotherthere's another quote that you you have
(17:59):
from the book that kind stood outto me, and it kind of speaks
to what you're talking about the lifeand speaking about the book. Your quote
is for those who trained at Juilliard, this book is a trip down memory
lane for those who dream of becomingan actor. It's a roadmap for what
it takes to survive in a businesswhere rejection is the norm and stability is
(18:22):
the dream. Yeah, yeah,I believe that that's true. Yeah,
you have to learn early on you'regoing to get rejection after rejection after rejection.
There's always that rare person who hitsit big early, and usually the
ones that hit it big early havea lot of ego problems as life goes
on, or during problems or manyproblems. It's a rare person. I
(18:47):
know maybe just three who hit itbig early and ended up being truly wonderful
human beings. And one of themis British. He's not even Americans.
It's rare. It's very rare.Yeah, you know British, the British
folks. They seem to be reallygood at producing actors and rock stars.
(19:07):
I don't know what it is.It's true, that is true. They
do both very well, very well. You talk about being a Group four
in the drama division of Juilliard.What is special about that that? What
is what is it known for?Well, each class that came in the
school began only four years, threeyears before I arrived. The first class
(19:30):
was Group one, and so on. So my class was the fourth class.
I think they're up to group fiftyseven or fifty eight now, which
tells you how old I am.It was the early years they were,
they were they created. John Housemancreated a program based on the British way
(19:52):
of training actors, and he broughtin a lot of teachers and directors from
the UK who were wonderful, bythe way, fantastic, and so it
was something brand knew that had neverbeen done in this country, and it
kind of set Julliard apart from anyother acting school than the US. And
(20:14):
we were guinea pigs. I meanthey were they were testing it out,
and as you saw in the book, I mean there were some pretty horrible
things that happened that if you're nottough enough, can scar you for life.
I mean what happened with me andone teacher in particular. And I
don't like to give too much awaybecause I want everyone to read the book.
(20:37):
Sure, but there was one teacherwho was truly cruel to me,
and I had to learn to letit, let it go, to not
let it affect me, or itwould have stayed with me forever. Thankfully,
I had some excellent teachers like MichaelKahn and Marian Seldius, who nurtured
(21:00):
me, who who gave me mywings to fly, who were who knew
how to handle young talent, whobelonged in a school like that, teaching
young actors. But unfortunately they madesome mistakes with some of the teachers too.
One of the things that's a dimensionto your book, I'll put it
(21:22):
this way, is that there isa certain nostalgia for what was New York
during that time, and anybody whowas familiar with New York that time can
probably feel that you as a youngperson going there and seeing a side of
the world that is completely different.And I would imagine anybody that goes to
(21:42):
New York from just about anywhere isgoing to have that feeling that comes across
in the book. What kind ofan impact did that have on you in
terms of your attitude towards going toschool there. It took a while.
As I say in the book,it's like, unless you come from a
big city like la or Philadelphia orChicago, going to New York when you're
(22:06):
I was nineteen is like going toa foreign country. It's a totally different
world. And it took me morethan a year to get accustomed to it.
But once I did, I fellin love with it. I mean,
I consider New York City my adoptedhometown. There's so much there.
(22:30):
If you're in the arts, well, actually, if you're in any profession,
New York City offers so many opportunities. But it was hard. I
mean the crime this was nineteen seventyone when I went the Upper West Side,
where I lived a whole time.I lived in New York for twenty
five years. The Upper West Sidewas a nightmare. I mean, it
(22:51):
was probably a lot like it isright now. I hate to say it
swung back. Unfortunately it did,and in some ways, from what my
friends tell me, it's a littleworse, which is hard to fathom.
But it was tough. I meanit was tough. The streets were scary.
We didn't have the homeless population that'sthere now, but we had the
(23:15):
crazies. We had the people whowould come right up to you and stick
a knife in your ribs. Now, it never happened to me, but
it did happen to friends. Apartmentswere broken into that became the norm.
I mean, you lived with fear. But then you'll learn you can't live
that way in New York City.You learn to live somewhere that you can
(23:38):
feel safe, and you learn totravel with a friend, you walk the
streets with friends. There was atime in New York City, not so
very long ago, I mean maybefifteen years ago, where I could go
out walk anywhere this well, notanywhere, almost anywhere by myself and not
(23:59):
be afraid. I mean, itwas a wonderful time. I would say
it was the late nineties, earlytwo thousands, when New York City was
just a fabulous place. I stilllove it. I mean, my Nick
mcdeer books all take place in NewYork City. I love writing about New
York. I love describing it,no matter when, what time period it
(24:21):
is. But back then, yeah, it was scary. It was scary.
Sure. The book is titled TheTime of Our Lives author Deborah Fazel,
What do you hope the reader takesaway now? I would imagine,
let me kind of preface my ownquestion here. I'm sure people who are
in the performing arts are really goingto enjoy every dimension of this book.
(24:44):
But I would go as far tosay, even as somebody who's only casually
interested in entertainment, the training that'sinvolved, the New York vibe that's involved
it all kind of goes into theaura of this book. If that's a
good term. What do you hopethe reader takes away from it? Because
it's also a story of growth interms of what you went through, you
evolved during your time there. Yeah, it's my personal story. When I
(25:06):
was approached to write this book,my good friend Cynthia nagged me for two
years to write this book. Sheand I. She was in my class.
And then when I ran it byDonna, my publisher, she loved
the idea, and so I thought, Okay, I'm going to take a
break from the mcdeer books and I'mgoing to do this. I think I
(25:27):
want to show that if your dreamis big enough, if you want it
badly enough, and you work hardto get it, you can get there.
Yeah. I evolve a lot inthis book. I came there as
I quoted myself. I mean,what I called myself was an Ohio hit.
(25:51):
It's the first thing out of mymouth when I met Cynthia at Juilliard.
And then I evolved. I mean, I I learned to love diversity.
I learned to love all the differentpeople in New York City and learning
about where they came from and theircultures. I loved all the different foods.
(26:14):
I became a completely different person.But it took time and I had
I mean also coming from my dad. I mean I had to find that
peace and I did with a boyfriendwho was in my class. So it
all kind of came together when Iwas at Juilliard, which is why I
call it the Time of our Lives. I mean it the book is That's
(26:37):
why I called the book that,because it it was the basis for everything
that came after. I mean,I'm still close friends to half of the
people in my Juilliard class. We'venever lost touch many of us. And
the things I learned in that school, the life lessons that I took away,
(27:00):
I applied forever. I applied itto my writing today. So I
want everyone. I just want everyoneto believe. And it doesn't have to
be in the arts. Whatever isdeep down inside of you that you want,
don't give up on it. Youmay think you're fighting incredible odds.
(27:22):
I mean that's what I thought.I had a dad who was a doctor,
a man of science, who didn'treally believe in a career in the
arts. I got past it.I came from Canton Ohio. Yes,
a wonderful place for the arts.But I went from there to New York
City, which seemed impossible, butI learned to adapt and I moved on.
(27:45):
I mean, you can get there, You can get there. I
also want to say I've been surprisedby I keep getting private messages from readers,
many who are not in the arts, who said they were stunned to
discover what went into being an actor. I think that the average person doesn't
(28:10):
realize. I think they think weall just get up and do it.
No, well, there's a lotmore to it. And these people who
have written to me have said thankyou for letting us know all of the
hours and the years that go intogetting yourself prepared to walk on a stage.
The Juilliard community also has been fantastic. I've gotten wonderful response, especially
(28:37):
from the people who were there backin the day. They said they said
most of them have said they readit in one sitting, that once they
started they couldn't stop because it wasso real it took them right back there,
which is the greatest compliment I couldget. That is absolutely fantastic.
I'll say the name of the bookone more time. I'm The Time of
(29:00):
Our Lives author Debra Fazel. Wherecan people buy the book? Amazon?
It is on Amazon both in theUS and in the UK, and I
think worldwide. I know a lotof my UK friends about it. In
the UK kindle and print published byShorehouse Books, and it seems to be
(29:22):
doing very well. I'm quite pleasedbecause you'd think a book like this would
have a narrow audience. Surprisingly it'sa little wider than I expect it,
which is wonderful. Oh, Idon't doubt that. Yeah, I believe
that there is on performing arts ofthis level, you have that window to
humanity. Like you were talking about, This isn't about standing on stage and
(29:44):
shaking your booty. This is about, you know, creating something that is
going to impact someone's emotions, impacttheir intellect and the amount of skill that
goes into that, the training thatgoes into that. So it's a great
book. The Time of Our Livesby Deborah Fazzel. If people want to
follow you on social media, wherecan they find you? I'm on Facebook,
(30:07):
I'm on Twitter, I'm on Instagram. I have an author page on
Facebook author Debra Fizzel, and Ihave an author page on Amazon. All
Deborah Fizzel. Awesome, Deborah,thank you so much for coming on and
talking about this book. I'll sayone more time at the Time of Our
Lives author Deborah Fizzel, available nowon Amazon. Thank you so much for
(30:33):
sharing your story. Billy. Thankyou so much for having me on again.
I'll say it again. Talking withyou is like sitting in my living
room talking to a friend. Awesomeall that's a fantastic compliment. Thank you
so much, Debrah. I alsowant to send out a shout out to
Donna Kavanaugh over an Ho Press andShort House Books, and be sure to
(30:56):
check out humor outcast dot com,the place to take the humor break new
content pretty much almost every day asfar as I am aware. I check
it out very often and there's alwayssomething new on there, and it's very
topical. You know, a lotof times whatever is going on in the
news has got some kind of funnylittle cartoon or something going on. So
humor outcast dot com thank you forlistening to our podcast today. Be sure
(31:19):
to check out Deborah Fazelle online andcheck out her book. My Name is
Billy D's. Thank you very muchfor listening, and we will talk to
you again next week,
All right, everyone, welcome tothe podcast. I am absolutely thrilled that
you are here. My name isBilly D's and I'm here today for the
people at humor outcast dot com.That is the place to take a humor
break. Also there is h OPress, Shore House Books. We want
to say hello to Donna Kavanaugh.And if you get a chance, check
(00:32):
out humor outcast dot com. Alot of great funny stuff on there,
all kinds of humor new content prettymuch every day. Do check them out
Humor outcast dot Com. On thestudio line with me today is Deborah Fazzel.
Deborah, Welcome to the program.Hello, Bill, how are you.
I am doing a fantastic Deborah hasbeen on the program numerous times.
(00:57):
You may know Deborah. Deborah iswell, she's got all kinds of things
on her resume. She's an actressor performer, an author, as she's
the author of the Nick mcdeer series. There's any number of books that follow
that character. And she's going totalk to us today about a book she
(01:17):
has titled The Time of Our Livesand what this book is about. In
the early seventies, Deborah was astudent at Juilliard and If you don't know
what that is, well we'll touchon it. But the bottom line is
a very prestigious performing arts school shewent to school. Some of her classmates
(01:38):
are names that you would certainly recognize. As a matter of fact, I
would go as far to say thatthey are household names. And she's going
to talk about that journey, whatthat experience was like. And I gotta
tell you, I did. Iknew this because I've interviewed you before,
but I didn't realize you when youtalk about your early days that you and
(01:59):
I. It's one thing to saywe have the same hometown, but you
and I have the same schools,the same streets. I mean, you
are from Canton, Ohio? Isthat correct? Is that was? What?
Were you born here? I wasborn there and then my father,
who was in the Air Force,moved us to San Antonio, Texas.
(02:23):
Okay, and then we came backwhen I was eight. Okay, Canton,
Ohio. For those around the worldthat may not know, probably what
we are most famous for is theProfessional Football Hall of Fame. And I'll
spare you a lot of football details, but suffice it to say, if
you do any research at all,the NFL actually started in this area.
(02:46):
Some of the biggest names, PaulBrown, namesake of the Cleveland Browns,
all those people are from this generalvicinity. So that's kind of what we're
famous for. But a lot ofpeople don't know that this is kind of
Northeast Ohio is pretty an active area. I don't know what it was like
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in the early seventies. I'm gonnatouch on that with you, Deborah,
But Ohio right now is, likeI'm guessing, probably like the seventh largest
economy. We have agriculture here,we have energy here, we have technology
here, hospitals, medicine, theCleveland Clinic, all those places. That's
a very diverse economy. And wedo have arts here. As a matter
of fact, there's a film,an independent film thing there in Cleveland that's
(03:30):
doing very well. And this areaof kant Ohio gets overshadowed by the football
that's here, you know, OhioState and all this other stuff, but
it's actually a very active area forthe arts. Now, was that kind
of your experience there in the earlyseventies. Yes, I was very fortunate,
always grateful to grow up in thatarea. The people who taught me,
(03:55):
the theaters, the schools, LaymanHigh School, which is where I
went, which no longer exists unfortunately, was one of the best known high
schools in northeastern Ohio for their productions, for their musicals, and so I
was so grateful to be able togo to that school. And I did
(04:17):
a lot of role also while Iwas there. I learned a lot.
I had marvelous directors, there weresummer theaters to work in. I'm just
eternally grateful for all of the experienceI got there. The Canton Players Guild
was very big still, is Iguess. So I learned a lot and
(04:40):
there was a lot to draw from. And here's a big thing, Tom
Robbins, who I talk about inthis book, I went to Juilliard.
Now, they only take like thirtyfive students a year after auditioning all over
the country. But I went toJuilliard coming from Canton, Ohio, one
of thirty five. And two yearslater Tom Robbins, who also went to
(05:04):
Layman, who also worked at thePlayers Guilt, who also worked in all
those theaters around town, he gotinto Julliard. He was group six.
I was grouped four. So thatsays a lot about the people who taught
us who nurtured us as we weregrowing up. Yeah, and mentioned I
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don't want to mention their names,but some of the teachers that you credit
in your book at Layman, Icame along probably five or ten years later.
Later to high school. I wentto McKinley, and a lot of
those teachers were there, So Iknew some of your teachers, probably about
ten years apart. But nonetheless Iknew a lot of your teachers. So
it was really interesting to go throughthat part of the book. When you
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were young, you know, thatage, let's say, and maybe grade
school things like that. Were youWere you a born performer? Were you
somebody that you know, I didthe imitations, stood up in front of
people and did stuff. Was thatin your blood from the very beginning or
did that kind of evolve with insideyou? I was a total ham from
the time I sprung from the grave. That's what my mom always said.
(06:11):
Anyway, I loved it. Ijust loved it. I loved being someone
else. I loved creating all thesecharacters. I would study people on TV
and imitate them. But it wasalways the musicals that drew me. I
loved Broadway musicals, and so Iwould go out and get all the cast
albums, memorize them, perform themfrom beginning to I knew every show by
(06:35):
heart, so yeah, it wasin me forever. Yeah, I kind
of wondering. I kind of believethat that's kind of, you know,
in someone's in someone's blood. Rightfrom the very beginning, I've found an
interesting mix. We're gonna talk aboutJuilliard and just very briefly, if you
don't know what Juilliard is. It'sa very prestigious performing arts school in New
(06:59):
York, and it's probably best knownfor the movie Fame. If you remember
that, that was the storyline kindof went, that was the place where
the school where that story happened,where that movie actually the story Fame was
the performing the high school of PerformingArts, which was always a prelude to
going to Juilliard. Though oh okay, I got you, so I stand
(07:20):
corrected, and you were in thedrama portion. Okay, you were in
the drama portion of the school.Okay, that's good to know. But
anyway, none less, I wantedto give people a frame or reference how
important the arts were to these particulartypes of students. I mean, this
is what they what they lived for. I've known a lot of performers,
(07:44):
and I gotta tell you there seemsto be two types. And I'll have
you speak to this. There's thenarcissist. You know, there's the person
who's going to stand in front ofyou and say look at me, okay,
and then there's going to be theother one. And I did a
little bit of stand up for awhile, and I've noticed that in the
headliners that I met, they weren'tthe life of the party when when you
(08:07):
were behind and stage with them,are out with them socially, they weren't
the guys that were standing on thebar stools. They were very reserved and
it was almost like they have it. They had a little bit of vulnerability
to them. They have this gentleside that is very tender. It was
that as your your experience with performers, I will I agree with you.
(08:30):
There are two types. The seriousactors, very serious actors, the kind
that want to train, that wantto learn, that want to grow.
They're not the narcissists, okay,but there's an awful lot of narcissists out
in LA. The movie industry isa whole different ball game. Yeah.
(08:52):
No, the people that I workedwith. Well, there's always the rare
exception. But the people that Iworked with, they were actors down to
their core. They wanted to bethe best of the best in that and
it wasn't that you dreamed of stardom. You wanted to be a working actor,
which is very hard to accomplish.There are so many people out there.
(09:16):
You're up against so much competition.And I urge any serious young actor
who wants to go into the theaterget some training. It's the first thing
a director looks at on your resume. Yeah, I would agree with you
that the serious actors have a vulnerableside. I think they call upon that
(09:37):
a lot of times, especially onesthat do dramatic roles, although comedic actors
very good doing drama as well.There's just something about what you can call
upon to affect an audience when you'relive in front of them, that you
can call upon when when you're acting, either on film or stage. I
might as well go right to someonethat is a very good example of what
(10:03):
you're talking about. That someone Iwent to school with, Robin Williams.
Now, when I knew him,he was very young, we were all
just starting out. He was notnobody knew him. You know, what
happened with Robin out in La happenedyears after Juilliard, not so very long,
(10:24):
but years after Juilliard. When Iworked with him, he was kind
of just exactly what you were describingme. He was vulnerable, he was
shy. My boyfriend and I hungout with him all the time. I
played opposite him in Night of theIguana. When he first came to Juilliard,
he came in as an advanced student, which is in your third it's
(10:46):
a four year training program. Inyour third year, the school brings in
two or three what they call advancedstudents who rounds out your class because at
that point we start out with thirtyfive year down to about sixteen when you
get to your third year, andso they kind of round out the class,
but also they're expected to be atthe same level that you're at after
(11:11):
two years of training. So Robincame in as an advanced student. His
first production was Night of the Iguana, and he played my grandfather, a
demented old man, a poet,and he was brilliant. I mean it
was the most dramatic, incredible performance. I loved working with him. We
(11:31):
totally connected and we became great friends. Our friendship, of course didn't last
after he went out to Hollywood,but then things change with actors. It's
hard to stay in touch. ButI relished every moment of working with him,
and he did have that sweetness.There was sweetness to Robin and a
(11:52):
vulnerability. He was very smart,very intelligent, photographic memory and philosophical.
I just thoroughly enjoyed him. Yeah, you know, it's not uncommon for
classmates in any type of schooling togo their separate ways in these track of
(12:13):
people, I've lost track of mostof the people that I've gone to school
with over the years, and unfortunatelythat's just the way life is, you
know, speaking of vulnerabilities. AndI'm only mentioning this because you touch on
it in your book at several differentpoints. The effect that your father had
on you. Yeah, you wantto talk a little bit about that,
what it was and how it impactedyou as a performer. Well, he
(12:37):
was a military man, buy thebook. Military man, not an overtly
affectionate man, and quite demanding onme. It's a difficult story to tell
because there are people still around lovedhim dearly, and I don't want to
(13:05):
to denigrate him too much. Buthe never made me feel adequate enough.
He never made me feel like Icould could do it. I mean,
yes, he when I wanted togo to Juilliard, he went for it.
He never tried to stop me.But he was never big on my
becoming an actress. And so Ithink part of my I say in the
(13:30):
book, and it's really true thatso many actors become actors when you dig
into their past. There was somethingin their childhood that drove them to the
stage, that made them want toget up in front of people and perform
and feel that love. Because that'swhat applause is. Applause is love coming
(13:52):
at you and becoming someone else.And that's what I did. I didn't
really was it until years later,you know, after Psychoana all the shrinks
and all of that stuff sorted allout, you realize, oh, okay,
that's why I did that. ButI wanted to be someone else,
and so that's what I could do. I could get on a stage and
(14:15):
become someone else, and that's Ireally did. I mean, I totally
would imburse myself in a character.I loved every moment of it. Yeah,
I can certainly empathize with that.I had a domineering father as well,
very alpha male. I wanted meto play football, you know,
getting back to the football thing,and it wasn't it wasn't in my blood
(14:37):
to that level. In my graduatingthe same year, competing high school Chris
Spielman, who became a professional footballplayer. He was the first high school
player in my in my graduating classof the year of nineteen eighty three that
was featured on a box of wheaties. And I was never going to be
(14:58):
that guy. It just, youknow, to to to play on that
level, you it has to beingrained in your system. Yeah, And
I always felt like I was adisappointment because I didn't play football when I
got all over And that can bevery hard to overcome. Being that you
had that that vulnerability, you know, that was kind of put onto you.
(15:20):
I would imagine you talk in yourbook, you describe a lot of
the faculty critiques. As a voiceover artist, I can tell you that
you got to get used to it. People just plat out tell you,
hey, I don't like your voicenext, okay, And but for you
know a lot of people, thatcan be devastating, depending how far it
goes. How how did you handlethat? And how did your class handle
(15:41):
that? Well, they make youover. I mean you come into Juilliard
and they we call it, theystrip you, bar they take away everything
you've ever learned, throw it outthe window, and retrain you. I
came in with a combination of amid My speech was a Midwest twang and
(16:07):
a Texas drawl. I mean,my speech teachers tore their hair out when
they first heard me speak, becauseyou have to learn an international dialect.
You do Shakespeare, you do allthese different kinds of plays, and you
cannot have a Southern accent. Youcannot have a New England what is I
forget what they call the New Englandaccent. But you've got to be able
(16:30):
to speak not the King's English,although in Shakespeare you should, but you
need to have proper speech. Myvoice I didn't have too much of a
problem with it, but there werepeople in my class. I speak of
one guy in particular who I adored. They just never let up on him.
(16:52):
They never liked his voice. Theysaid he didn't have a stage voice
that and no matter what they didwith him, I mean, they just
beat him down to the point wherehe left at the end of the second
year and ended up having an incrediblecareer. I mean he's now he does
commercials all the time. He's he'sjust having he's a director. He's performed
(17:15):
on stage all over the place.There's a saying, I mean, I
know him getting off topic a littlebit, but there's a saying among Juilliard's
students, kind of a joke thatyou don't want to graduate because the ones
who really make it are the oneswho don't graduate. Yeah, and there's
that's even in the book. Ithink it's Eric Lassal who who I quote
(17:38):
in the book about that. Butso many do not graduate. I mean,
my class started with thirty six orthirty seven, I can't remember now,
and we graduated six, but thenmy class imploded in the third year.
M interesting. You know there's anotherthere's another quote that you you have
(17:59):
from the book that kind stood outto me, and it kind of speaks
to what you're talking about the lifeand speaking about the book. Your quote
is for those who trained at Juilliard, this book is a trip down memory
lane for those who dream of becomingan actor. It's a roadmap for what
it takes to survive in a businesswhere rejection is the norm and stability is
(18:22):
the dream. Yeah, yeah,I believe that that's true. Yeah,
you have to learn early on you'regoing to get rejection after rejection after rejection.
There's always that rare person who hitsit big early, and usually the
ones that hit it big early havea lot of ego problems as life goes
on, or during problems or manyproblems. It's a rare person. I
(18:47):
know maybe just three who hit itbig early and ended up being truly wonderful
human beings. And one of themis British. He's not even Americans.
It's rare. It's very rare.Yeah, you know British, the British
folks. They seem to be reallygood at producing actors and rock stars.
(19:07):
I don't know what it is.It's true, that is true. They
do both very well, very well. You talk about being a Group four
in the drama division of Juilliard.What is special about that that? What
is what is it known for?Well, each class that came in the
school began only four years, threeyears before I arrived. The first class
(19:30):
was Group one, and so on. So my class was the fourth class.
I think they're up to group fiftyseven or fifty eight now, which
tells you how old I am.It was the early years they were,
they were they created. John Housemancreated a program based on the British way
(19:52):
of training actors, and he broughtin a lot of teachers and directors from
the UK who were wonderful, bythe way, fantastic, and so it
was something brand knew that had neverbeen done in this country, and it
kind of set Julliard apart from anyother acting school than the US. And
(20:14):
we were guinea pigs. I meanthey were they were testing it out,
and as you saw in the book, I mean there were some pretty horrible
things that happened that if you're nottough enough, can scar you for life.
I mean what happened with me andone teacher in particular. And I
don't like to give too much awaybecause I want everyone to read the book.
(20:37):
Sure, but there was one teacherwho was truly cruel to me,
and I had to learn to letit, let it go, to not
let it affect me, or itwould have stayed with me forever. Thankfully,
I had some excellent teachers like MichaelKahn and Marian Seldius, who nurtured
(21:00):
me, who who gave me mywings to fly, who were who knew
how to handle young talent, whobelonged in a school like that, teaching
young actors. But unfortunately they madesome mistakes with some of the teachers too.
One of the things that's a dimensionto your book, I'll put it
(21:22):
this way, is that there isa certain nostalgia for what was New York
during that time, and anybody whowas familiar with New York that time can
probably feel that you as a youngperson going there and seeing a side of
the world that is completely different.And I would imagine anybody that goes to
(21:42):
New York from just about anywhere isgoing to have that feeling that comes across
in the book. What kind ofan impact did that have on you in
terms of your attitude towards going toschool there. It took a while.
As I say in the book,it's like, unless you come from a
big city like la or Philadelphia orChicago, going to New York when you're
(22:06):
I was nineteen is like going toa foreign country. It's a totally different
world. And it took me morethan a year to get accustomed to it.
But once I did, I fellin love with it. I mean,
I consider New York City my adoptedhometown. There's so much there.
(22:30):
If you're in the arts, well, actually, if you're in any profession,
New York City offers so many opportunities. But it was hard. I
mean the crime this was nineteen seventyone when I went the Upper West Side,
where I lived a whole time.I lived in New York for twenty
five years. The Upper West Sidewas a nightmare. I mean, it
(22:51):
was probably a lot like it isright now. I hate to say it
swung back. Unfortunately it did,and in some ways, from what my
friends tell me, it's a littleworse, which is hard to fathom.
But it was tough. I meanit was tough. The streets were scary.
We didn't have the homeless population that'sthere now, but we had the
(23:15):
crazies. We had the people whowould come right up to you and stick
a knife in your ribs. Now, it never happened to me, but
it did happen to friends. Apartmentswere broken into that became the norm.
I mean, you lived with fear. But then you'll learn you can't live
that way in New York City.You learn to live somewhere that you can
(23:38):
feel safe, and you learn totravel with a friend, you walk the
streets with friends. There was atime in New York City, not so
very long ago, I mean maybefifteen years ago, where I could go
out walk anywhere this well, notanywhere, almost anywhere by myself and not
(23:59):
be afraid. I mean, itwas a wonderful time. I would say
it was the late nineties, earlytwo thousands, when New York City was
just a fabulous place. I stilllove it. I mean, my Nick
mcdeer books all take place in NewYork City. I love writing about New
York. I love describing it,no matter when, what time period it
(24:21):
is. But back then, yeah, it was scary. It was scary.
Sure. The book is titled TheTime of Our Lives author Deborah Fazel,
What do you hope the reader takesaway now? I would imagine,
let me kind of preface my ownquestion here. I'm sure people who are
in the performing arts are really goingto enjoy every dimension of this book.
(24:44):
But I would go as far tosay, even as somebody who's only casually
interested in entertainment, the training that'sinvolved, the New York vibe that's involved
it all kind of goes into theaura of this book. If that's a
good term. What do you hopethe reader takes away from it? Because
it's also a story of growth interms of what you went through, you
evolved during your time there. Yeah, it's my personal story. When I
(25:06):
was approached to write this book,my good friend Cynthia nagged me for two
years to write this book. Sheand I. She was in my class.
And then when I ran it byDonna, my publisher, she loved
the idea, and so I thought, Okay, I'm going to take a
break from the mcdeer books and I'mgoing to do this. I think I
(25:27):
want to show that if your dreamis big enough, if you want it
badly enough, and you work hardto get it, you can get there.
Yeah. I evolve a lot inthis book. I came there as
I quoted myself. I mean,what I called myself was an Ohio hit.
(25:51):
It's the first thing out of mymouth when I met Cynthia at Juilliard.
And then I evolved. I mean, I I learned to love diversity.
I learned to love all the differentpeople in New York City and learning
about where they came from and theircultures. I loved all the different foods.
(26:14):
I became a completely different person.But it took time and I had
I mean also coming from my dad. I mean I had to find that
peace and I did with a boyfriendwho was in my class. So it
all kind of came together when Iwas at Juilliard, which is why I
call it the Time of our Lives. I mean it the book is That's
(26:37):
why I called the book that,because it it was the basis for everything
that came after. I mean,I'm still close friends to half of the
people in my Juilliard class. We'venever lost touch many of us. And
the things I learned in that school, the life lessons that I took away,
(27:00):
I applied forever. I applied itto my writing today. So I
want everyone. I just want everyoneto believe. And it doesn't have to
be in the arts. Whatever isdeep down inside of you that you want,
don't give up on it. Youmay think you're fighting incredible odds.
(27:22):
I mean that's what I thought.I had a dad who was a doctor,
a man of science, who didn'treally believe in a career in the
arts. I got past it.I came from Canton Ohio. Yes,
a wonderful place for the arts.But I went from there to New York
City, which seemed impossible, butI learned to adapt and I moved on.
(27:45):
I mean, you can get there, You can get there. I
also want to say I've been surprisedby I keep getting private messages from readers,
many who are not in the arts, who said they were stunned to
discover what went into being an actor. I think that the average person doesn't
(28:10):
realize. I think they think weall just get up and do it.
No, well, there's a lotmore to it. And these people who
have written to me have said thankyou for letting us know all of the
hours and the years that go intogetting yourself prepared to walk on a stage.
The Juilliard community also has been fantastic. I've gotten wonderful response, especially
(28:37):
from the people who were there backin the day. They said they said
most of them have said they readit in one sitting, that once they
started they couldn't stop because it wasso real it took them right back there,
which is the greatest compliment I couldget. That is absolutely fantastic.
I'll say the name of the bookone more time. I'm The Time of
(29:00):
Our Lives author Debra Fazel. Wherecan people buy the book? Amazon?
It is on Amazon both in theUS and in the UK, and I
think worldwide. I know a lotof my UK friends about it. In
the UK kindle and print published byShorehouse Books, and it seems to be
(29:22):
doing very well. I'm quite pleasedbecause you'd think a book like this would
have a narrow audience. Surprisingly it'sa little wider than I expect it,
which is wonderful. Oh, Idon't doubt that. Yeah, I believe
that there is on performing arts ofthis level, you have that window to
humanity. Like you were talking about, This isn't about standing on stage and
(29:44):
shaking your booty. This is about, you know, creating something that is
going to impact someone's emotions, impacttheir intellect and the amount of skill that
goes into that, the training thatgoes into that. So it's a great
book. The Time of Our Livesby Deborah Fazzel. If people want to
follow you on social media, wherecan they find you? I'm on Facebook,
(30:07):
I'm on Twitter, I'm on Instagram. I have an author page on
Facebook author Debra Fizzel, and Ihave an author page on Amazon. All
Deborah Fizzel. Awesome, Deborah,thank you so much for coming on and
talking about this book. I'll sayone more time at the Time of Our
Lives author Deborah Fizzel, available nowon Amazon. Thank you so much for
(30:33):
sharing your story. Billy. Thankyou so much for having me on again.
I'll say it again. Talking withyou is like sitting in my living
room talking to a friend. Awesomeall that's a fantastic compliment. Thank you
so much, Debrah. I alsowant to send out a shout out to
Donna Kavanaugh over an Ho Press andShort House Books, and be sure to
(30:56):
check out humor outcast dot com,the place to take the humor break new
content pretty much almost every day asfar as I am aware. I check
it out very often and there's alwayssomething new on there, and it's very
topical. You know, a lotof times whatever is going on in the
news has got some kind of funnylittle cartoon or something going on. So
humor outcast dot com thank you forlistening to our podcast today. Be sure
(31:19):
to check out Deborah Fazelle online andcheck out her book. My Name is
Billy D's. Thank you very muchfor listening, and we will talk to
you again next week,
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