August 8, 2025 • 42 mins
Zafra Lerman has spent her life proving that science—infused with compassion and creativity—can bridge even the deepest divides. From her childhood in Israel to advising U.S. leaders at the White House, and from classrooms to conflict zones, she has brought together scientists from opposing nations, pioneered teaching chemistry through the arts, and championed science education as a basic human right.
In her memoir, Human Rights and Peace: A Personal Odyssey, she shares the setbacks, triumphs, and inspiring moments that shaped her belief in science as a tool for peacebuilding—and offers lessons in courage, hope, and collaboration that the world urgently needs.
Zafra M. Lerman, Ph.D., FRSC
President, Malta Conferences Foundation
Distinguished Professor of Science and Public Policy (Emerita)
Columbia College Chicago
Human Rights and Peace: A Personal Odyssey https://www.amazon.com/dp/9815129724?ref=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_TASNR2KYK5G2EK9P25DG&ref_=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_TASNR2KYK5G2EK9P25DG&social_share=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_TASNR2KYK5G2EK9P25DG&bestFormat=true&csmig=1
MaltaConferencesFoundation.org https://www.maltaconferencesfoundation.org/
Zafra Lerman Website https://zafralerman.com/
In her memoir, Human Rights and Peace: A Personal Odyssey, she shares the setbacks, triumphs, and inspiring moments that shaped her belief in science as a tool for peacebuilding—and offers lessons in courage, hope, and collaboration that the world urgently needs.
Zafra M. Lerman, Ph.D., FRSC
President, Malta Conferences Foundation
Distinguished Professor of Science and Public Policy (Emerita)
Columbia College Chicago
Human Rights and Peace: A Personal Odyssey https://www.amazon.com/dp/9815129724?ref=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_TASNR2KYK5G2EK9P25DG&ref_=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_TASNR2KYK5G2EK9P25DG&social_share=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_TASNR2KYK5G2EK9P25DG&bestFormat=true&csmig=1
MaltaConferencesFoundation.org https://www.maltaconferencesfoundation.org/
Zafra Lerman Website https://zafralerman.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
You are listening to the Billy D's podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
All right, well, hello everyone, and welcome to the program.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
My name is Billy De's.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
If you've never been here before, we are primarily an
interview and a commentary based podcast. Today we have an
interview for you on the studio line with me is
zaphyra Lerman.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
A pleasure to have you. So glad you are here.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Thank you very much. I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Good good. Let me read just a brief blurb on her.
Her new memoir is titled Human Rights and Peace, A
Personal Odyssey abos excuse me, a behind the scenes look
at her life's journey from war torn Israel to the
White House, from classrooms to conflict zones. Every story she
(00:59):
tells is part of that mission to spread the message
that science, when guided by compassion and courage, can truly
change the world. That's quite the mission. One of the
things that intrigued me about this interview is mixing science
and diplomacy. That's not one that I hear every day.
(01:21):
So let's talk a little bit about you first. Now
you're from Israel, is that correct?
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Correct?
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Correct?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
And you're now in Chicago, Chicago, northwesterns.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Okay, very good.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
So I can understand being from Israel, you're automatically, I guess,
put into the into the world of politics, because that's
the nature of that part of the world. What in
what drew you to science? What age did you decide
you know, socience is pretty interesting and specifically chemistry.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
What how did that journey go for you?
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Oh? I decided I knew I'll be a scientist from
a very very young age. I was always, since the
age of two, asking questions that people's not always could answer.
For example, by the age of two, I had neighbors
that are identical twins, and I decided that I have
(02:31):
identical and identical twin because I love the idea to
have somebody like me. And I was sitting in front
of the mirror, was persuading my identical twin to come
and join me, and my parents said, it's you don't
have an identical twin. And I said, so, who's there?
(02:52):
And they said it's you. I said, what do you
minute me? How am I there? And I would I
spent hours opening the door where the mirror was closing
to try to figure out what is it that I'm
here and I'm there? And then we had a small
(03:16):
radio that was a box, and when the news came,
it says voice of America, the voice of Jerusalem. And
I lived in the beginning in a small place called
Nashal then Haifa. But when I was three years old,
I said, how can I be here and hear the
(03:37):
voice of Jerusalem? That is very far away. So this
kind of questions I had since the age of two.
So for a very young age, I knew I will
be a scientist, not a chemist. A chemist came much
later when I was in high school. I did not
(03:59):
have the comes to a teacher like most of their students,
so it was not my favorite subject. But Inzael, there
is a lot of school between high school and college.
It's called they are me, and this gives you a
(04:21):
more perspective on what you want to do. And this
is when I decided to go and study chemistry.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
That's fantastic, that's very intriguing. I sometimes missed. I feel
that I missed my calling. I was even as an amateur.
I'm very much trying to physics. I tak college level
and physics when I was at school did very well.
Physics and chemistry are somewhat related. There's a lot of
balancing equations and things like that, But once you get
(04:53):
past that, there's some interesting stuff in there. And I
really feel that the average person who's just let's say,
just wants to go to school to learn do business
or whatever, they really do themselves a disservice by bypassing
the sciences because they feel they're just hard classes and
I don't need them. Can you speak a little bit
(05:13):
about knowing a little bit about how the world around
us works changes your perspective just in everyday life.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
First, I think the important the importance of science to me,
it's the logical thinking and the critical thinking that you
develop by taking the science classes. My students used to
(05:43):
imitate me. They were all known science major majoring in
music are dance, drama, animation, film, and they used to
imitate me with my exit the most important things critical thinking.
They try to even take my critical But today when
(06:07):
I have very successful students in Hollywood and places like that,
they always tell me it's not what we learned in
any other class. It's the critical thinking that we learn
in your classes that made us successful in the profession
(06:28):
you're doing. So First, it's the way of thinking and
critically thinking that is very important. But I used to
tell my student even to just read an article in
a regular newspaper if you don't have any background in science,
(06:50):
there are a lot of articles that you can understand.
If it's talking about climate change, if it's talking about
about nuclear power plans. Oh, we hear a lot of
dirnian inen reaching uranium and reaching uanium. Who's uranium? What
(07:10):
is uranium? What does it mean? They're in reaching uranium.
So even to listen and okay, they don't be newspaper today,
but they listen to some onder instruments and I'm sure
that you lean in the reti uranium appears. So if
(07:32):
you don't have any idea what it is, then you
are lost in the world. I usually says that science
education is human rights the longs all and this is
the reason. And there is a big chapter on my
book in my book for that that I developed the
(07:53):
method to teach science throughout music, dance, drama, any way
you one. And it became very successful with underprivileged students
around the world and with a lot of non science
majors everywhere, because it suddenly was not somewhere out of
(08:17):
the because if you come to a chemistry class and
the teachers starts and now we'll learn the structure of
the atom. Everybody thinks, yes, why that bothd to me
to know? I remember when I was young in a
history class. I said, what I am? I'm interested in math?
(08:44):
I'm doing high math, I'm doing that. What am I
interested in? Conwell or Napoleon? What do I care what
they did? Only later on I started realizing our history
is important. But as a child, what is that important?
I know about being life? All be scientist a mathematician,
(09:09):
but why do I have to know it? So by
making science relevant to the students. Chicago is surrounded by
nuclear power plants. So I start my class by asking
students to bring articles from the newspaper that related something
(09:33):
to science. Unusually there were about their nuclear power plants.
Something is there? So I would ask them what is
nuclear power plant? And suddenly would be silence, silence. I say,
how do we get the energy from nuclear pop plant?
No idea? So from the nuclear power plant that I
(09:59):
had to explain what it is. I went down into
the structure of the attlement, the new clause and not
there because by that stage it was already relevant to them.
Why they supposed to know it. So it's the way
you teach science that really causes a lot of the
(10:23):
students to turn away from that, and there's nobody telling
them it's really important for you.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yes, that's a very interesting tactic. There's two facets that
I want to cover. The first is you kind of
mentioned the mixing of science and the arts to teach.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
I just kind of want to order where I want
to go first.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
The second is science to the diplomacy, because I think
that's the one that's a little harder for me to understand.
So let's start with the easy one.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
First.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
You talk a lot about the arts, music, what has you,
and you integrate that with the sciences to make it
more enjoyable. How does that process work. Let's say, for example,
somebody is studying music but they really don't like science class.
How does that relationship tie together?
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Okay, so I'll tell you that all these ideas and
the method of teaching I developed because I was an
excellent student to my students. All what I knew how
to teach I learned for my own students. Why, because
(11:39):
I realized immediately I was at Cornell, I was at Northwestern,
and then I came to Columbia College Chicago that was
mainly minorities. Majors were out in communication, and I realized
that I cannot teach the same way. So I remember
(12:01):
I tried to explain reaction and I realized the long
blank face on the faces of the student. And then
one student that majored in dance raised her hand and said,
can I show how I understand it? And I said, sue.
(12:23):
So she took a few students, she assigned them to
the different chemicals in choreographic as a dance, and suddenly
it was very clear to the students, and I said,
this is interesting. You should see what she's doing and
learned from her to teach this way, and this is
(12:47):
how this developed. Then was an art student that he
wanted to show something. We had a microscope that had
heat under that and he wanted to show the students
we had a solution that was red color, and then
(13:13):
he put it on a slide on the miscroscope and
in front of your eyes, a modern out painting started coming,
like different feathers that were in purple color with red
in the middle. And what he tried to show that
(13:34):
when the water evaporated, then the different crystals showed up,
but he showed it in such a beautiful way because
it was like a painting. And when I saw how
the students learning by themselves. Then first it started by
(13:56):
me telling them that I hated hated to my test.
I hated that in one hour I have to show
all my knowledge and maybe I don't feel well in
this hour. And then if it's multiple choice test, I said.
(14:19):
And I always used to tell them. We had a rabbi,
his name was hellel and he said, I make He
said alta slap. He called this a leja. Everything you
hate to be done to you, never do it to
(14:40):
your friends. So you have to tell my classes, because
all of you are now my friends. I will never
do to you anything I hated to be done to me.
So I would try to explain, for example, the chemical
bond and the ionic bond. I explained, ionic bond happens
(15:06):
when I have to go a little bit into science.
You know, the atom has its three particles. It has
a neutrol that is neutral and it's in the nucleus.
It has a poton that is positively charged, and this
(15:27):
is in the nucleus, and around it has electrons. That
are negatively charged. The number of the neutrons in a
poton an electron is equal. Therefore the atom is Newton.
But when you want to form table salt, that is
(15:47):
sodium chlorid, the atom that is called sodium gives an
electron to the chlorine. So then sodium becomes negatively charged
because he gave away and it becomes positively child because
(16:09):
he gave away a negative child, and the glowin that
got the negative child became negative charge positive and negative.
Everybody knows they attack, so they are attract and this
is how they formed table salt. Table salt. When you
put it in water, this ironic bone what you call
(16:32):
breaks because the water is pollow, so it breaks this bond.
Theater students suddenly show me how they understood this concept
of the structure of that of an all the particle.
But they wrote it like a love story between sodium
(16:54):
and chlorine, exactly like Omeo and Juliet. They just the
words there to fit the sodiomn chlorine and added the
explanation of the atom because they needed the different particle.
And then they showed how sodom and chlorin got married.
(17:17):
It gives her her elector like a kiss, and they
become husband and wife. But it's a tragedy because it's Shakespeare.
So then the water comes, this was a real student,
and break the bond. And then they stood, all of
them with plack and it says learned to take every
(17:40):
tragedy with a grain off in the couple's great assault.
And it took interesting because years later I went to
see a Shakespeare's show and the way the actor pronounced something,
it sounded to me like I in this. Because I
(18:02):
showed this video thousands of times around the world. What
can I tell you? People loved it. It's now on
nour YouTube. But he says to Chlorine, I am sodium
from the other side of the periodic table. But then
(18:22):
I hear in the Shakespeare something that I didn't hear
the world. It sounds exactly the intonation. Now I am stodium.
So I looked at the program and sure it was
this student. It's years later, fifteen years. So I came
to him after that and I said, I you you
only from the way you put up that, And he
(18:45):
said to me, oh my god, I forgot everything I
learned in you college. But the periodic tables and the
ionic Bond I won't get because we wrote the script
and reacted it.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Oh that is yeah, that is so different. I can
see how that works, especially you know from an actor's perspective,
they get into character and all that stuff and really, yeah, scribes.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
In my book there there's a big chapter on all
that with examples of the different like the Bond Father
that they did, like The Godfather. Following then there's the
depletion of the Ozo Layer like they did like Star Wars.
And I don't like science fiction, so I never Star War.
(19:37):
So I said, this is beautiful this film. It's a
film student, I did depict the oz Layers so beautiful,
but just can you take out this character that I
don't know why belongs. There's this character there and they
said this is the most important part of the movie
(20:00):
Dot Vader or something like that. But I'd never seen
the movie. I said, it's all beautiful if you take
this character out, and he said, no, it's part of
the movie. Yeah. But they explained all the Ozon Layer beautifully.
(20:20):
But you ask about the music and music students, this
was when we learned about the Ozon He wrote a
whole song about the Ozon Layer, but he sang it,
I have plenty of ozon in the music of I
have plenty of nothing, Oh okay, And it sounded so beautiful,
(20:46):
and then he explained really all the depletion of the
ozon layer. So in dance, the students so much, even
homeless kids that study dance at night. And the dance
teacher was my student. So I was the head of
(21:09):
the science institute. So I and on my faculty would
go at night to the dance studio and teach them science.
There are pictures how I sit on the floor and
the students all around me, and periodic tables in front
of everybody on the floor and on the floor we
learn all that, and then they danced it. And I
(21:35):
always show videos of that in a conference, Golden conference.
It's called on Science Visualization. And this conference was always
in Oxford, but it was once in Mount Holyock in
the US. So the people said to me, can you
raise the money and bring them to the conference so
(21:58):
we'll see the real not just the video. So I did,
and this homeless kids suddenly fly to a conference with
all the scientists and they performed to them different concepts
how they visualize it dance and you see the old
(22:19):
audience that was literally white. There was one scientist not
white in the audience streaming Bravo, Bravo, and it was
an experience for both groups. But if we don't have.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Time to this, that's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Moving on to the part that I don't want to say,
I'm skeptical, but here's here's my view. I when when
when the space shot, When when the United States landed
on the Moon. I think a lot of people were
hopeful that when we saw the little blue ball and
we might look at our different differences a little differently,
(23:05):
the wars that we were engaged in might seem a
little silly and so on.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
But that did not happen. It didn't mean anything to anyone.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
And when I think about diplomacy today, so many countries
are ingrained in various religions, which is always going to
trump anything that you tell them about reality.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Two plus two equals four.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
That's fine, but it don't mean anything because my God
is the right one, right. So I'm very curious when
it comes to integrating science and diplomacy and making us
feel more apt to talk to one another, how does
that work?
Speaker 3 (23:48):
So let me explain to you. There's a lot of
world even between the people that believe in the same God. Yes,
true people that practically are cousins for whach ore there
because they are all children of Abraham. You know, Abraham
(24:09):
had two sons Isaac that the Jews came from and
its mail the came from. So it's cousins a lot
of worlds there. So how is science and why is science?
Sciences is international. Science does not see religion, doesn't see borders,
(24:37):
they don't see language, they don't see culture. It's science
and the people that broke on that really do the
same thing. And it does matter which god they believe in,
and it doesn't matter which language they talk. I always
(24:59):
like to say that the chemist in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania and
a chemist in Battlesham Wealth Bank can communicate very well
the chemistry to each other without any language. They don't
need the language. They can understand it. So science can
(25:22):
overcome a lot of the bailure that regular diplomacy cannot overcome. Therefore,
after September eleven, I suggested to the American Chemical Society
Board that we organize a conference where we bring together
(25:46):
scientists from all the Middle East countries. Iranira Syria, Liblon
as well the Palastinian. Everybody is there for five days
with several Nobel laureate and we will give them a
platform that they will see what unites them rather than
(26:11):
what separates them. They will have a platform where they
will learn to stop demonizing the unknn other because this
is the nature not knowing and demonizing. Any platform where
they can from collaborations on issues that one country alone
(26:39):
cannot solve. For example, what there is a big issue
in the Middle East, but nature in the environment don't
see the lines that mainly the British put on the map,
all artificials, so they record or underground, they go through
(27:03):
several countries. They don't know to stop because somebody put
a line on the map. And if you want to
solve this problem, you have to work together. The same
with air porversion. The countries are very close together, so
if you tried to clean your air and the wind comes,
(27:24):
it doesn't matter. Must walk on all these issues together
and we wanted to provide a platform for that, and
this what we tried to do. The first one was
held in two thousand and three. My idea was to
(27:45):
have one and show to the world that we succeeded
to bring these people from countries that are hostile to
each other to spend almost a week together. I didn't
know that after that the participants will demand more. And
we had already ten like that, and we are ready
(28:06):
now with the eleven one. But the first one was
in two thousand and three. Two thousand and three was
the height of the Intifada. It was the Palestinian uprising
that resulted in suicide bombs in every corner in Israel,
(28:28):
in the restaurants and buses and everywhere. A lot of
people got killed and one day and blind and lost clamps.
It was a terrible period. And everybody said, what, you're
not afraid to have this conference during this period, and
(28:53):
I said, no, we have to bring the people together.
The reason that it's called the Alta Conferences is because
the first one was held in Malta. Many more were
held in Malta, but the first one was held in Malta.
In one Malta because in my mind in Ireland safe
(29:15):
felt in the mainland. I don't know why, but this
is a white feels. In addition, to get to Malta
in two thousand and three was very complicated. There were
very few direct flights. People barely knew about Malta. People
used to ask me, Malta Yalta, Aboulta Yalta. It sounds
(29:36):
the same. So you could fly direct from Frankfurt home
London probably, and it took a long time. It took
it for the Middle East that it was a very
short distance. It took a whole day to get to Malta.
So my calculation was that no terrorists will spend the
(29:59):
whole day to go and kill a lot of Muslims
and futures. And this is why Malta was selected. And
the point was the idea of using the science as
diplomacy was right because during this the first day, every
(30:23):
country set separately. There was no contact, and I tried
to walk around and move people and all dead. By
the last day saying goodbye, you would think that the
family reunion and people were with tears, hugging, kissing each other.
(30:45):
Nobody cared anymore what country you are from, like one family.
Because all were scientists. And now there are seven hundred
people in the network, and remember a lot of them
are professors. They see hundreds of students every year, so
(31:08):
the influence is much bigger than the people that participate.
And my dream is I say in the book, And
interestingly enough Nature magazine picked it up from my book
to be the quote of the day when they published
(31:29):
their the quote. Published a quote for my book where
I said, in order to have the atom bomb, you
need a critical math of uranium or plutonium in order
to have a chain reaction that will lead to the bob.
I said in my book that I want to create
(31:52):
a critical math of scientists that will start a chain
reaction for peace. And this is what Nature pictures quote
of the day. And this is my dream because when
you see these people and you think if I could
have every year several conferences like that, there is no
(32:18):
way that we would not be able to achieve peace. Yes,
and this is what I call science diplomacy, because there
is diplomacy, but it's all through science. In addition, scientists,
I tell them, have the responsibility to walk towards peace
(32:39):
because without scientists you would not have weapons of math
to destruction. You need scientists for that too, So scientists
have the responsibility to go against it and walk for
peace and for the betterment of humankind in this planet. Addition,
(33:01):
not in the US and US scientists don't have every status,
but in all the other countries, scientists have special status
and very respected by the government and helped by the
government because governments know that they need science. Fold the
beds thing. I always say, science can prolonged life, but
(33:25):
science can cut life very short. Therefore, we should use
our science to prolong life and peace. And this is
why I feel that scientists have their status and the
responsibility to deal with science diplomacy, using their science for
(33:48):
diplomacy that will lead to peace.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Well, that's a fantastic perspective. I want to say the
name of the book one more time.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
I can let.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Okay, sure, author is Zattra Lherman, Human Rights and piece
a personal odyssey. This covers a lot of ground. This
covers some actually things you may not even think of
in terms of concepts. I mean, she covers the relationship
of science and music, arts, so on, the the integration
(34:27):
of science and diplomacy. And I really like the fact
that you know, science is kind of like a universal language.
They say the same thing about math specifically, but it's
it's a way to communicate. Go ahead, you wanted to
say something.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
When we say science, we include usually math.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Oh, sure, yes, I mean but in terms of the quote,
people usually go straight to math because two plus two
equals four everywhere. Although there's people that have been challenging that,
and that's that's how I would want to want to
wrap this up or just as a fun question without
getting political or anything like that. There is when I
(35:06):
was a young man, when I was let's say, in
grade school and high school, I don't think I ever
met anybody ever that seriously believed that the Earth was flat,
or that the sky was a firmament that you could
not penetrate, and the idea that planets were moving and
(35:27):
how gravity worked and all these other things were all
part of a conspiracy to fool everyone that was I
never met anybody that would talk like that. Now there's
a significant number of people who not only talk about
the world being flat, but you know, there were some
real crazy notions.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
I'll put it that way.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
There's almost an anti intellectualism in society today. Do we
is there hope for us? Let me put it that way.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
You know, most of the things that the young generation
learn now is from social media, and on social media,
nobody checks it's what you say has any basis, So
you can put everything you want and people believe in that.
(36:23):
It's not only social media. Suddenly our media is biased.
Even the New York Times, they will put a picture
to make the point, but will not pick a picture
that and then they can apologize that it was a mistake, but.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
You know they put there.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
They put the idea because it fits to what the
editor wanted to communicate. So this is where our problem
is that social media and even the media don't check
the facts before they communicate to millions of people. And
(37:15):
when you are young and your mind is young, and
your parents don't teach you or talk to you about
a lot of things. So what you see on the
social media or for the adults, what they're reading the
New York Time. God, I'm reading the New York Times,
which they saying but there is no questioning about. And
(37:41):
this comes to their part that they don't have a
science background with the critical thinking, because then you would
question everything. This is what critical thinking is doing. So
this is the result that we see now. And then
if you have secretaries that try to push their theories
(38:09):
or conspiracies and act on that that vaccines shouldn't be developed,
and the people that it gained don't have a background
to critically analyze it by themselves. They accept it in
(38:31):
this strip where our problem is. Therefore, we cannot stop
these people from telling us their conspiracies. But with education
from a young age, we can stop the crowd to
believe them or question there.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Yes, or test it themselves.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
Right, but not taking for granted because somebody put a
tweet that is the tooth, Yes, I think we are
in very big trouble about it.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Yes, yes, I totally agree. And like I said, the
people that believe these things, they're not on the fringes anymore.
So yes, I'm totally in step with that. Thank you
so much. First of all, I want to say the
name Zatra Lherman. You can google her.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
She comes right up. I try. But where can people
find you online?
Speaker 3 (39:29):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Do you have like a website you would let people
to visit.
Speaker 3 (39:33):
I have a personal website that is a Lehman dot com.
The Malta Conferences have a website that is multi Conferences
Foundation dot com and there describe everything about the Malta Conferences.
(39:53):
So I have the two websites. And for the people
that are interested in the education, I mean the videos
that students produced and danced and music and theater. We
have a YouTube and Disappear under Lehman Institute for the
(40:18):
Advancement of Science.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
That is absolutely fantastic. Again, the book Human Rights and
Piece a Personal Odyssey. Zatra Lherman, the author, Thank you
so much. This was a delightful and educational conversation. Thank
you so much for being on the program today.
Speaker 3 (40:39):
Thank you very much. It was a pleasure talking to you.
And the book is on Amazon and paper back.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
All right, Zafra Lherman, Human Rights and Piece a Personal Odyssey,
available now and of course these days, Amazon the place
to check it out.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Thank you so much for us for being here.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
Thank you very much for having me absolutely and.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Thank you for listening. Remember you can find me really
easy to find on social media at Billy D's on
x which at one time was Twitter. That's kind of
like my social media home, the Billy D's podcast itself.
We are on all the major podcast platforms, so do
check us out ten year history in both the podcast
(41:26):
in its current form. A pleasure to have you listening.
Thank you so much, and we will talk to you
again very very soon. I'm Billy D's and host of
the self titled podcast, The Billy D's Podcast. We are
primarily an interview and a commentary based podcast featuring authors
(41:47):
and creators talking about their craft, advocates for community issues,
and myself in an array of co host discussing current events.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
There's no partisan renting and raving going on here, just
great content.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
You can find The Billy D's Podcast on your favorite
platform and on Twitter at Billy D's.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
Thank you, and I hope you listen in
You are listening to the Billy D's podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
All right, well, hello everyone, and welcome to the program.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
My name is Billy De's.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
If you've never been here before, we are primarily an
interview and a commentary based podcast. Today we have an
interview for you on the studio line with me is
zaphyra Lerman.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
A pleasure to have you. So glad you are here.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Thank you very much. I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Good good. Let me read just a brief blurb on her.
Her new memoir is titled Human Rights and Peace, A
Personal Odyssey abos excuse me, a behind the scenes look
at her life's journey from war torn Israel to the
White House, from classrooms to conflict zones. Every story she
(00:59):
tells is part of that mission to spread the message
that science, when guided by compassion and courage, can truly
change the world. That's quite the mission. One of the
things that intrigued me about this interview is mixing science
and diplomacy. That's not one that I hear every day.
(01:21):
So let's talk a little bit about you first. Now
you're from Israel, is that correct?
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Correct?
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Correct?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
And you're now in Chicago, Chicago, northwesterns.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Okay, very good.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
So I can understand being from Israel, you're automatically, I guess,
put into the into the world of politics, because that's
the nature of that part of the world. What in
what drew you to science? What age did you decide
you know, socience is pretty interesting and specifically chemistry.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
What how did that journey go for you?
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Oh? I decided I knew I'll be a scientist from
a very very young age. I was always, since the
age of two, asking questions that people's not always could answer.
For example, by the age of two, I had neighbors
that are identical twins, and I decided that I have
(02:31):
identical and identical twin because I love the idea to
have somebody like me. And I was sitting in front
of the mirror, was persuading my identical twin to come
and join me, and my parents said, it's you don't
have an identical twin. And I said, so, who's there?
(02:52):
And they said it's you. I said, what do you
minute me? How am I there? And I would I
spent hours opening the door where the mirror was closing
to try to figure out what is it that I'm
here and I'm there? And then we had a small
(03:16):
radio that was a box, and when the news came,
it says voice of America, the voice of Jerusalem. And
I lived in the beginning in a small place called
Nashal then Haifa. But when I was three years old,
I said, how can I be here and hear the
(03:37):
voice of Jerusalem? That is very far away. So this
kind of questions I had since the age of two.
So for a very young age, I knew I will
be a scientist, not a chemist. A chemist came much
later when I was in high school. I did not
(03:59):
have the comes to a teacher like most of their students,
so it was not my favorite subject. But Inzael, there
is a lot of school between high school and college.
It's called they are me, and this gives you a
(04:21):
more perspective on what you want to do. And this
is when I decided to go and study chemistry.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
That's fantastic, that's very intriguing. I sometimes missed. I feel
that I missed my calling. I was even as an amateur.
I'm very much trying to physics. I tak college level
and physics when I was at school did very well.
Physics and chemistry are somewhat related. There's a lot of
balancing equations and things like that, But once you get
(04:53):
past that, there's some interesting stuff in there. And I
really feel that the average person who's just let's say,
just wants to go to school to learn do business
or whatever, they really do themselves a disservice by bypassing
the sciences because they feel they're just hard classes and
I don't need them. Can you speak a little bit
(05:13):
about knowing a little bit about how the world around
us works changes your perspective just in everyday life.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
First, I think the important the importance of science to me,
it's the logical thinking and the critical thinking that you
develop by taking the science classes. My students used to
(05:43):
imitate me. They were all known science major majoring in
music are dance, drama, animation, film, and they used to
imitate me with my exit the most important things critical thinking.
They try to even take my critical But today when
(06:07):
I have very successful students in Hollywood and places like that,
they always tell me it's not what we learned in
any other class. It's the critical thinking that we learn
in your classes that made us successful in the profession
(06:28):
you're doing. So First, it's the way of thinking and
critically thinking that is very important. But I used to
tell my student even to just read an article in
a regular newspaper if you don't have any background in science,
(06:50):
there are a lot of articles that you can understand.
If it's talking about climate change, if it's talking about
about nuclear power plans. Oh, we hear a lot of
dirnian inen reaching uranium and reaching uanium. Who's uranium? What
(07:10):
is uranium? What does it mean? They're in reaching uranium.
So even to listen and okay, they don't be newspaper today,
but they listen to some onder instruments and I'm sure
that you lean in the reti uranium appears. So if
(07:32):
you don't have any idea what it is, then you
are lost in the world. I usually says that science
education is human rights the longs all and this is
the reason. And there is a big chapter on my
book in my book for that that I developed the
(07:53):
method to teach science throughout music, dance, drama, any way
you one. And it became very successful with underprivileged students
around the world and with a lot of non science
majors everywhere, because it suddenly was not somewhere out of
(08:17):
the because if you come to a chemistry class and
the teachers starts and now we'll learn the structure of
the atom. Everybody thinks, yes, why that bothd to me
to know? I remember when I was young in a
history class. I said, what I am? I'm interested in math?
(08:44):
I'm doing high math, I'm doing that. What am I
interested in? Conwell or Napoleon? What do I care what
they did? Only later on I started realizing our history
is important. But as a child, what is that important?
I know about being life? All be scientist a mathematician,
(09:09):
but why do I have to know it? So by
making science relevant to the students. Chicago is surrounded by
nuclear power plants. So I start my class by asking
students to bring articles from the newspaper that related something
(09:33):
to science. Unusually there were about their nuclear power plants.
Something is there? So I would ask them what is
nuclear power plant? And suddenly would be silence, silence. I say,
how do we get the energy from nuclear pop plant?
No idea? So from the nuclear power plant that I
(09:59):
had to explain what it is. I went down into
the structure of the attlement, the new clause and not
there because by that stage it was already relevant to them.
Why they supposed to know it. So it's the way
you teach science that really causes a lot of the
(10:23):
students to turn away from that, and there's nobody telling
them it's really important for you.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yes, that's a very interesting tactic. There's two facets that
I want to cover. The first is you kind of
mentioned the mixing of science and the arts to teach.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
I just kind of want to order where I want
to go first.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
The second is science to the diplomacy, because I think
that's the one that's a little harder for me to understand.
So let's start with the easy one.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
First.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
You talk a lot about the arts, music, what has you,
and you integrate that with the sciences to make it
more enjoyable. How does that process work. Let's say, for example,
somebody is studying music but they really don't like science class.
How does that relationship tie together?
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Okay, so I'll tell you that all these ideas and
the method of teaching I developed because I was an
excellent student to my students. All what I knew how
to teach I learned for my own students. Why, because
(11:39):
I realized immediately I was at Cornell, I was at Northwestern,
and then I came to Columbia College Chicago that was
mainly minorities. Majors were out in communication, and I realized
that I cannot teach the same way. So I remember
(12:01):
I tried to explain reaction and I realized the long
blank face on the faces of the student. And then
one student that majored in dance raised her hand and said,
can I show how I understand it? And I said, sue.
(12:23):
So she took a few students, she assigned them to
the different chemicals in choreographic as a dance, and suddenly
it was very clear to the students, and I said,
this is interesting. You should see what she's doing and
learned from her to teach this way, and this is
(12:47):
how this developed. Then was an art student that he
wanted to show something. We had a microscope that had
heat under that and he wanted to show the students
we had a solution that was red color, and then
(13:13):
he put it on a slide on the miscroscope and
in front of your eyes, a modern out painting started coming,
like different feathers that were in purple color with red
in the middle. And what he tried to show that
(13:34):
when the water evaporated, then the different crystals showed up,
but he showed it in such a beautiful way because
it was like a painting. And when I saw how
the students learning by themselves. Then first it started by
(13:56):
me telling them that I hated hated to my test.
I hated that in one hour I have to show
all my knowledge and maybe I don't feel well in
this hour. And then if it's multiple choice test, I said.
(14:19):
And I always used to tell them. We had a rabbi,
his name was hellel and he said, I make He
said alta slap. He called this a leja. Everything you
hate to be done to you, never do it to
(14:40):
your friends. So you have to tell my classes, because
all of you are now my friends. I will never
do to you anything I hated to be done to me.
So I would try to explain, for example, the chemical
bond and the ionic bond. I explained, ionic bond happens
(15:06):
when I have to go a little bit into science.
You know, the atom has its three particles. It has
a neutrol that is neutral and it's in the nucleus.
It has a poton that is positively charged, and this
(15:27):
is in the nucleus, and around it has electrons. That
are negatively charged. The number of the neutrons in a
poton an electron is equal. Therefore the atom is Newton.
But when you want to form table salt, that is
(15:47):
sodium chlorid, the atom that is called sodium gives an
electron to the chlorine. So then sodium becomes negatively charged
because he gave away and it becomes positively child because
(16:09):
he gave away a negative child, and the glowin that
got the negative child became negative charge positive and negative.
Everybody knows they attack, so they are attract and this
is how they formed table salt. Table salt. When you
put it in water, this ironic bone what you call
(16:32):
breaks because the water is pollow, so it breaks this bond.
Theater students suddenly show me how they understood this concept
of the structure of that of an all the particle.
But they wrote it like a love story between sodium
(16:54):
and chlorine, exactly like Omeo and Juliet. They just the
words there to fit the sodiomn chlorine and added the
explanation of the atom because they needed the different particle.
And then they showed how sodom and chlorin got married.
(17:17):
It gives her her elector like a kiss, and they
become husband and wife. But it's a tragedy because it's Shakespeare.
So then the water comes, this was a real student,
and break the bond. And then they stood, all of
them with plack and it says learned to take every
(17:40):
tragedy with a grain off in the couple's great assault.
And it took interesting because years later I went to
see a Shakespeare's show and the way the actor pronounced something,
it sounded to me like I in this. Because I
(18:02):
showed this video thousands of times around the world. What
can I tell you? People loved it. It's now on
nour YouTube. But he says to Chlorine, I am sodium
from the other side of the periodic table. But then
(18:22):
I hear in the Shakespeare something that I didn't hear
the world. It sounds exactly the intonation. Now I am stodium.
So I looked at the program and sure it was
this student. It's years later, fifteen years. So I came
to him after that and I said, I you you
only from the way you put up that, And he
(18:45):
said to me, oh my god, I forgot everything I
learned in you college. But the periodic tables and the
ionic Bond I won't get because we wrote the script
and reacted it.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Oh that is yeah, that is so different. I can
see how that works, especially you know from an actor's perspective,
they get into character and all that stuff and really, yeah, scribes.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
In my book there there's a big chapter on all
that with examples of the different like the Bond Father
that they did, like The Godfather. Following then there's the
depletion of the Ozo Layer like they did like Star Wars.
And I don't like science fiction, so I never Star War.
(19:37):
So I said, this is beautiful this film. It's a
film student, I did depict the oz Layers so beautiful,
but just can you take out this character that I
don't know why belongs. There's this character there and they
said this is the most important part of the movie
(20:00):
Dot Vader or something like that. But I'd never seen
the movie. I said, it's all beautiful if you take
this character out, and he said, no, it's part of
the movie. Yeah. But they explained all the Ozon Layer beautifully.
(20:20):
But you ask about the music and music students, this
was when we learned about the Ozon He wrote a
whole song about the Ozon Layer, but he sang it,
I have plenty of ozon in the music of I
have plenty of nothing, Oh okay, And it sounded so beautiful,
(20:46):
and then he explained really all the depletion of the
ozon layer. So in dance, the students so much, even
homeless kids that study dance at night. And the dance
teacher was my student. So I was the head of
(21:09):
the science institute. So I and on my faculty would
go at night to the dance studio and teach them science.
There are pictures how I sit on the floor and
the students all around me, and periodic tables in front
of everybody on the floor and on the floor we
learn all that, and then they danced it. And I
(21:35):
always show videos of that in a conference, Golden conference.
It's called on Science Visualization. And this conference was always
in Oxford, but it was once in Mount Holyock in
the US. So the people said to me, can you
raise the money and bring them to the conference so
(21:58):
we'll see the real not just the video. So I did,
and this homeless kids suddenly fly to a conference with
all the scientists and they performed to them different concepts
how they visualize it dance and you see the old
(22:19):
audience that was literally white. There was one scientist not
white in the audience streaming Bravo, Bravo, and it was
an experience for both groups. But if we don't have.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Time to this, that's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Moving on to the part that I don't want to say,
I'm skeptical, but here's here's my view. I when when
when the space shot, When when the United States landed
on the Moon. I think a lot of people were
hopeful that when we saw the little blue ball and
we might look at our different differences a little differently,
(23:05):
the wars that we were engaged in might seem a
little silly and so on.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
But that did not happen. It didn't mean anything to anyone.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
And when I think about diplomacy today, so many countries
are ingrained in various religions, which is always going to
trump anything that you tell them about reality.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Two plus two equals four.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
That's fine, but it don't mean anything because my God
is the right one, right. So I'm very curious when
it comes to integrating science and diplomacy and making us
feel more apt to talk to one another, how does
that work?
Speaker 3 (23:48):
So let me explain to you. There's a lot of
world even between the people that believe in the same God. Yes,
true people that practically are cousins for whach ore there
because they are all children of Abraham. You know, Abraham
(24:09):
had two sons Isaac that the Jews came from and
its mail the came from. So it's cousins a lot
of worlds there. So how is science and why is science?
Sciences is international. Science does not see religion, doesn't see borders,
(24:37):
they don't see language, they don't see culture. It's science
and the people that broke on that really do the
same thing. And it does matter which god they believe in,
and it doesn't matter which language they talk. I always
(24:59):
like to say that the chemist in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania and
a chemist in Battlesham Wealth Bank can communicate very well
the chemistry to each other without any language. They don't
need the language. They can understand it. So science can
(25:22):
overcome a lot of the bailure that regular diplomacy cannot overcome. Therefore,
after September eleven, I suggested to the American Chemical Society
Board that we organize a conference where we bring together
(25:46):
scientists from all the Middle East countries. Iranira Syria, Liblon
as well the Palastinian. Everybody is there for five days
with several Nobel laureate and we will give them a
platform that they will see what unites them rather than
(26:11):
what separates them. They will have a platform where they
will learn to stop demonizing the unknn other because this
is the nature not knowing and demonizing. Any platform where
they can from collaborations on issues that one country alone
(26:39):
cannot solve. For example, what there is a big issue
in the Middle East, but nature in the environment don't
see the lines that mainly the British put on the map,
all artificials, so they record or underground, they go through
(27:03):
several countries. They don't know to stop because somebody put
a line on the map. And if you want to
solve this problem, you have to work together. The same
with air porversion. The countries are very close together, so
if you tried to clean your air and the wind comes,
(27:24):
it doesn't matter. Must walk on all these issues together
and we wanted to provide a platform for that, and
this what we tried to do. The first one was
held in two thousand and three. My idea was to
(27:45):
have one and show to the world that we succeeded
to bring these people from countries that are hostile to
each other to spend almost a week together. I didn't
know that after that the participants will demand more. And
we had already ten like that, and we are ready
(28:06):
now with the eleven one. But the first one was
in two thousand and three. Two thousand and three was
the height of the Intifada. It was the Palestinian uprising
that resulted in suicide bombs in every corner in Israel,
(28:28):
in the restaurants and buses and everywhere. A lot of
people got killed and one day and blind and lost clamps.
It was a terrible period. And everybody said, what, you're
not afraid to have this conference during this period, and
(28:53):
I said, no, we have to bring the people together.
The reason that it's called the Alta Conferences is because
the first one was held in Malta. Many more were
held in Malta, but the first one was held in Malta.
In one Malta because in my mind in Ireland safe
(29:15):
felt in the mainland. I don't know why, but this
is a white feels. In addition, to get to Malta
in two thousand and three was very complicated. There were
very few direct flights. People barely knew about Malta. People
used to ask me, Malta Yalta, Aboulta Yalta. It sounds
(29:36):
the same. So you could fly direct from Frankfurt home
London probably, and it took a long time. It took
it for the Middle East that it was a very
short distance. It took a whole day to get to Malta.
So my calculation was that no terrorists will spend the
(29:59):
whole day to go and kill a lot of Muslims
and futures. And this is why Malta was selected. And
the point was the idea of using the science as
diplomacy was right because during this the first day, every
(30:23):
country set separately. There was no contact, and I tried
to walk around and move people and all dead. By
the last day saying goodbye, you would think that the
family reunion and people were with tears, hugging, kissing each other.
(30:45):
Nobody cared anymore what country you are from, like one family.
Because all were scientists. And now there are seven hundred
people in the network, and remember a lot of them
are professors. They see hundreds of students every year, so
(31:08):
the influence is much bigger than the people that participate.
And my dream is I say in the book, And
interestingly enough Nature magazine picked it up from my book
to be the quote of the day when they published
(31:29):
their the quote. Published a quote for my book where
I said, in order to have the atom bomb, you
need a critical math of uranium or plutonium in order
to have a chain reaction that will lead to the bob.
I said in my book that I want to create
(31:52):
a critical math of scientists that will start a chain
reaction for peace. And this is what Nature pictures quote
of the day. And this is my dream because when
you see these people and you think if I could
have every year several conferences like that, there is no
(32:18):
way that we would not be able to achieve peace. Yes,
and this is what I call science diplomacy, because there
is diplomacy, but it's all through science. In addition, scientists,
I tell them, have the responsibility to walk towards peace
(32:39):
because without scientists you would not have weapons of math
to destruction. You need scientists for that too, So scientists
have the responsibility to go against it and walk for
peace and for the betterment of humankind in this planet. Addition,
(33:01):
not in the US and US scientists don't have every status,
but in all the other countries, scientists have special status
and very respected by the government and helped by the
government because governments know that they need science. Fold the
beds thing. I always say, science can prolonged life, but
(33:25):
science can cut life very short. Therefore, we should use
our science to prolong life and peace. And this is
why I feel that scientists have their status and the
responsibility to deal with science diplomacy, using their science for
(33:48):
diplomacy that will lead to peace.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Well, that's a fantastic perspective. I want to say the
name of the book one more time.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
I can let.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Okay, sure, author is Zattra Lherman, Human Rights and piece
a personal odyssey. This covers a lot of ground. This
covers some actually things you may not even think of
in terms of concepts. I mean, she covers the relationship
of science and music, arts, so on, the the integration
(34:27):
of science and diplomacy. And I really like the fact
that you know, science is kind of like a universal language.
They say the same thing about math specifically, but it's
it's a way to communicate. Go ahead, you wanted to
say something.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
When we say science, we include usually math.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Oh, sure, yes, I mean but in terms of the quote,
people usually go straight to math because two plus two
equals four everywhere. Although there's people that have been challenging that,
and that's that's how I would want to want to
wrap this up or just as a fun question without
getting political or anything like that. There is when I
(35:06):
was a young man, when I was let's say, in
grade school and high school, I don't think I ever
met anybody ever that seriously believed that the Earth was flat,
or that the sky was a firmament that you could
not penetrate, and the idea that planets were moving and
(35:27):
how gravity worked and all these other things were all
part of a conspiracy to fool everyone that was I
never met anybody that would talk like that. Now there's
a significant number of people who not only talk about
the world being flat, but you know, there were some
real crazy notions.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
I'll put it that way.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
There's almost an anti intellectualism in society today. Do we
is there hope for us? Let me put it that way.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
You know, most of the things that the young generation
learn now is from social media, and on social media,
nobody checks it's what you say has any basis, So
you can put everything you want and people believe in that.
(36:23):
It's not only social media. Suddenly our media is biased.
Even the New York Times, they will put a picture
to make the point, but will not pick a picture
that and then they can apologize that it was a mistake, but.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
You know they put there.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
They put the idea because it fits to what the
editor wanted to communicate. So this is where our problem
is that social media and even the media don't check
the facts before they communicate to millions of people. And
(37:15):
when you are young and your mind is young, and
your parents don't teach you or talk to you about
a lot of things. So what you see on the
social media or for the adults, what they're reading the
New York Time. God, I'm reading the New York Times,
which they saying but there is no questioning about. And
(37:41):
this comes to their part that they don't have a
science background with the critical thinking, because then you would
question everything. This is what critical thinking is doing. So
this is the result that we see now. And then
if you have secretaries that try to push their theories
(38:09):
or conspiracies and act on that that vaccines shouldn't be developed,
and the people that it gained don't have a background
to critically analyze it by themselves. They accept it in
(38:31):
this strip where our problem is. Therefore, we cannot stop
these people from telling us their conspiracies. But with education
from a young age, we can stop the crowd to
believe them or question there.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Yes, or test it themselves.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
Right, but not taking for granted because somebody put a
tweet that is the tooth, Yes, I think we are
in very big trouble about it.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Yes, yes, I totally agree. And like I said, the
people that believe these things, they're not on the fringes anymore.
So yes, I'm totally in step with that. Thank you
so much. First of all, I want to say the
name Zatra Lherman. You can google her.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
She comes right up. I try. But where can people
find you online?
Speaker 3 (39:29):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Do you have like a website you would let people
to visit.
Speaker 3 (39:33):
I have a personal website that is a Lehman dot com.
The Malta Conferences have a website that is multi Conferences
Foundation dot com and there describe everything about the Malta Conferences.
(39:53):
So I have the two websites. And for the people
that are interested in the education, I mean the videos
that students produced and danced and music and theater. We
have a YouTube and Disappear under Lehman Institute for the
(40:18):
Advancement of Science.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
That is absolutely fantastic. Again, the book Human Rights and
Piece a Personal Odyssey. Zatra Lherman, the author, Thank you
so much. This was a delightful and educational conversation. Thank
you so much for being on the program today.
Speaker 3 (40:39):
Thank you very much. It was a pleasure talking to you.
And the book is on Amazon and paper back.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
All right, Zafra Lherman, Human Rights and Piece a Personal Odyssey,
available now and of course these days, Amazon the place
to check it out.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Thank you so much for us for being here.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
Thank you very much for having me absolutely and.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Thank you for listening. Remember you can find me really
easy to find on social media at Billy D's on
x which at one time was Twitter. That's kind of
like my social media home, the Billy D's podcast itself.
We are on all the major podcast platforms, so do
check us out ten year history in both the podcast
(41:26):
in its current form. A pleasure to have you listening.
Thank you so much, and we will talk to you
again very very soon. I'm Billy D's and host of
the self titled podcast, The Billy D's Podcast. We are
primarily an interview and a commentary based podcast featuring authors
(41:47):
and creators talking about their craft, advocates for community issues,
and myself in an array of co host discussing current events.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
There's no partisan renting and raving going on here, just
great content.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
You can find The Billy D's Podcast on your favorite
platform and on Twitter at Billy D's.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
Thank you, and I hope you listen in
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