September 22, 2023 • 39 mins
This week on Black on Black Cinema, the crew returns to announce the next film, the 2005 film, "Hustle & Flow" starring Terrence Howard, Anthony Anderson, and Ludacris. The story follows a pimp in a midlife crisis who works to launch a successful rap career. The random topic this week is surrounding Jann Wenner, the founder of Rolling Stone magazine, who is facing criticism for saying that Black and female musicians were not "articulate" enough to be included in his new book, which features seven interviews with white, male rock 'n' roll icons.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:04):
I have no idea the last time, make change man. Let's wrap with
James Sonnets you know. Hello,welcome to a brand new preview episode for
Black and Black Cinema. I'm yourhost, jam Here my co host Michael.
(00:27):
Hey, al right, guys,we're back. This is a preview
for episode two fifty, Hustle andFlow. I did not choose this movie.
Who did? Yeah? Ironically wedid. Yeah, you're you're super
who did? Yeah? Okay,you're gonna try to uh yeah. This,
of course, is the two thousandand five film directed by Craig Brewer,
(00:51):
also written by Craig Brewer, starringTerrence Howard, uh Ludicrous, and
Anthony Anderson. Look Terrence and troff this week on this previous episode,
but they will return for Hustle andFlow. Let me give you the log
line for this movie. With helpfrom his friends, a Memphis pimp in
a midlife crisis that's hilarious to meattempts to become a successful hip hop MC.
(01:15):
Now, as I'm reading this,I assume that Mike and Terence would
read this as AMICI not MC becauseit's spelled out. You have a serious
problem with understanding words. No,it's it's pronounced mick. Oh, yeah,
I'm sorry. Yeah, the Eis in in fact Land. Look,
(01:36):
I've never seen Hustle and Flow.I've never really had a need to.
I do know that this movie did, in fact win an Oscar,
which I think is hilarious. Ithink it's what that's the Three six Mafia
Oscar, Right, they won forHustle and Flow. Yeah, I'll never
forget it because John Stewart, Ibelieve it was the host, and he
came up and said, he said, what did he say? He said,
(01:57):
he named like three fame movie directors, right, and then he and
then he ended it with three sixMafia, Like all these motherfuckers just won
Academy Award and you we can't either, all right, So there you go,
Hustle and Flow. Next week youcan find it, you can rent
(02:19):
it and everything else. And itwas on what'd you say it was on?
It's on Max. It's on yeah, Max. It's on HBO Max.
Yeah. So if you have HBOMax or Max or whatever, you
can watch it there for free.All right, So we will dig into
that, I'm sure thoroughly next week, and before we get into the topic
(02:40):
this week, we'll be right backwith a commercial break. Okay, So
random topics this week is all aboutwhat's this guy? Uh Yan Winner.
So he is the founder of RollingStone magazine and he's coming out with a
(03:01):
new book called The Masters. Andduring the publication, during the run up
to the release of this book,The Masters, which is just a bunch
of interviews that he did with BobDylan, Jerry Garcia, Mick Jagger,
John Lennon, Bruce Springsteen, PeteTownsend and Bono that that's what the book
(03:27):
is, right. And during theyou know, press tour for this,
he spoke to The New York Times. He didn't speak to some like you
know fly by Night, like youknow internet only site, right, Like
this is the New York Times,right, And he said that the one
(03:50):
of the interviewers said, Hey,why are non white artists or women missing
from this book? And he saidjan Winner said, he asserted that he
did not interview women who were quotearticulate enough on this intellectual level to speak
(04:11):
deeply about music. Apparently this istwo things that women and black people aren't
articulate enough to speak about. Abunch of do remise and so Fati does
and shit, they're not they're notintelligent enough to speak on music. Now,
(04:36):
look, this is ridiculous, thisis this is just white facilliness,
right, Like, like if youyou would have been better off just saying
I didn't listen to the style ofmusic that women play, or I didn't
listen to the style of music thatblack people play. This. I interviewed
(04:57):
these people because this is what Iliked, And that's fine. Right,
everyone's got a difference, right,right, there's nothing wrong with that.
It still would be a right,it's still be weird, like considering like
it's not like black people have notcontributed and created rocket roll, like created
the genre. But if you said, hey, this is a very specific
(05:17):
time again, I'm trying to getthis guy as much lu Wiz I can
like that, there could be apossible avenue where you could say, well,
actually I'm not a bigoted piece ofshit. But like, it's real
hard to believe that you're not right. It's it's almost impossible. Yeah,
So the interview pushed back, citingfemale artists like Madonna or Johnny Mitchell,
(05:41):
and Win a point pivoted to talkabout, uh, black artists. He's
to get that fucking racism. Hewas like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
I still want a fuck white woman. So let me let me just
move on, hold on, holdon. So he responded by saying,
it's not that they're inarticulate, althoughgo have a deep conversation with Grace Slick
(06:06):
or Janis Joplin. Please be myguest. You know, Joni Mitchell was
not a philosopher of rock and roll. She didn't, in my mind,
meet the test as of black artists. You know, Stevie Wonder genius,
right. I suppose when you usea word as broad as masters, the
(06:29):
fault is using that word maybe MarvinGay or Curtis Mayfield. Oh no,
they just didn't articulate at that level. How do you know that? Like,
how do you know that? Likehow do you know that? Like
you're telling me you couldn't have adeep conversation about music with Marvin Gay?
You tell you, Like, Yo, that's insane, That's an insane thing
(06:50):
to say. Here, here's here'sa here's a black person who really really
knows music. Unfortunately they're not alive. But again, there are people he's
talking about that he's clearly done interviewswith, like a long time ago,
John Lennon for instance, not alivenow right, So them being alive is
not an argument for you know theseinterviews, right, He's done him a
(07:11):
year years ago. Prince one ofthe most accomplished musicians of all time.
I believe Prince played like twenty differentinstruments, was by any account, a
musical genius, a genius, likean actual genius, like yeah, not
like how the word now right,and look, I'm say this and is
(07:34):
not to be a dick, butit is to be a bit of a
dick. He prints is a musicalgenius, unlike how people say Kanye West
is a musical genius. Right.I don't believe Kanye is a musical genius.
I think he's very talented when hedoesn't have his head up his ass,
but I don't think he's a musicalgenius. Prince is a was literally
a musical genius. Right, There'sa different understanding of also playing instruments and
(07:58):
being able to play multiple instruments likethat is a level of actual genius like
it is, and that's and that'snot to discredit Kanye's ability. I just
don't put them on I don't putthem in the same path. Right,
Prince was arguably a musical genius.One could argue Michael Jackson was a musical
genius right, Like he didn't plays, he didn't play instruments like that,
(08:20):
Like I mean, I think heplayed guitar obviously when he was a kid,
but like he didn't play like guitarpiano fucking blah blah blah blah blah
blah blah like Prince did. Buthe was also still a like lyrically and
everything else. He was a fuckinggenius as well. He's a genius level
and sonically man and sonically like peoplethink. People think that Mike Oh,
people think that Michael Jackson just sayslike this, No, Yo, that's
(08:43):
a put on. That's a puton like he has. He has a
vocal range that that is very underratedbecause here it is you can hear it
in his music like those are backupsingers. That's him him singing each octave
of a lyric and then and thenmelting that stuff together to fill to uh
(09:07):
fill out the chorus. Uh.Look, the the quote doesn't end there.
He's He's also quoted as saying,you know, just for public relations
sake, maybe I should have goneand found one black and one woman artist
to include here that didn't measure upto the same historical standard, just to
(09:33):
avert this kind of criticism, whichI get I had a chance to do
that. Maybe I'm old fashioned.I don't give a fucker whatever. Wow.
Wait did he say I don't givea fucker whatever? Yes, s
I know you added that. Wow, Holy shit. I mean I guess
he don't like I guess he don't. God damn he does not. So
(09:54):
apparently this guy got removed from theboard of directors for Rolling Stone, which
you all right, I mean he'sa fount. Yeah, he's at that
point of right, right, VinceMcMahon got removed from the board of directors
of w w A and now he'sback right like okay, Like what a
what a slap on the wrist touh, to be transparent. He did
(10:20):
apologize through a publicist. I believe. I'm trying to say if I can
find it, but he did apologize. I didn't really, it was just
it was a pretty standard apology.Dude. That is okay, let's let's
(10:43):
let's dig into this a little bit, like there are the ideas that look,
they're on its face, it's ridiculousthat black people, and you know,
black people in general and women ingeneral couldn't speak articulate, articulate enough
(11:03):
to warrant his like approval, whichis crazy to me, Like, I
don't think the people on your listwould agree with you, you know what
I mean, Like Bob Dylan,John Lennon, Bruce Springsteen, these guys
would even agree with you, dude, Like they wouldn't agree with you,
Like, no, who are theother people on the list, because the
(11:24):
article I have doesn't list everybody?Uh was Garcia? Uh yeah, Jerry
Garcia definitely would not agree with you. I just close the tap hold on,
I'll find it, But go aheadand make your point. But like,
if the people that you're interviewing wouldn'tagree with you, then I'm pretty
(11:48):
sure your point is dumb as fuckedlike it it makes no sense and so
on its face to say that theycouldn't be articulate enough to talk about the
music is weird to to then.Also, you called the look like it's
referring to like these masters of thecraft. Like again, like I just
saw I just saw a quote fromlike it was like Keith Richards or something
(12:11):
like that, who was Like Iwouldn't be here if it wasn't for black
black music. It's like yeah,like at least from the Rolling Stones,
like the Fuck, one of themost popular bands of all time, and
it's like yeah, yeah, likewe all our entire sound two black people.
So to say that we could notbe articulate enough doesn't make sense.
(12:31):
To say that they're not masters ofthe craft is ridiculous because the masters of
the craft that you're picking copied fromblack people. Like what the fuck black
people in almost every genre of music. Black people are at the core of
American made music, are at thecore of its inception. You ever heard
music before black people got involved init, like old school, like real
(12:54):
like early you know, early whitemusic. It sounds terrible. Even white
people thought it sounded terrible, andthen they were like Ohan, they doesn't
making music. Oh thank god,I ain't like that. A lot of
barbershop quartets and nonsense and bo BobDylan mc jagger, John Lennon, Jerry
(13:15):
Garcia and Pete Townshend town Towns Townsendagain like this this is those guys would
not pick would not agree with him, I'm sure, and and Bruce Springsteen,
Yeah maybe maybe he would maybe hewould agree with you. Maybe,
maybe he would agree with yeah,sucking springste Yeah, maybe Bruce Racing will
(13:37):
take time out from doing his podcastwith the first black president to agree that
black people are articulate enough to talkabout rock music? What the fuck are
you talking about? By the way, when he's when he's not busy,
when he's not busy writing his anthem, his American anthem born in the USA,
which is which is critical, critical, right right, Like first Price
(14:00):
is one one of the most liberalfucking musicians that's in the modern era who
it's ever existed. And people arelike, oh, I love Border Backer,
you know, or Border in theUSA. That's a that's a great
buzzi songs. You've never listened tothe lyrics. You've never listened to the
lyrics at all. That's fucking wildto me. But I just and you
know, and not too we wouldbe remiss to say the same thing about
(14:22):
women, like women couldn't be like, dude, come on, like,
I'm I'm like, I immediately thinkof black women's contribution to music, which
is which is in and of itselfa whole different conversation, but just women
in general, like like the articlethis NPR article mentions, like you didn't
(14:43):
think Janis Joplin as a person youcouldn't have talked too about music? Are
you fucking serious? She was thehardened She was one of the hardened soul
of the entire hippie movement. Dude, what the fuck are you talking about?
Like I'm a cast? Like yeah, I mean like these people died
young, no doubt because because drugs, But like there are plenty of other
women who are massive contributors to tomusic like that, Like that is this
(15:09):
deeply, deeply offensive? Like ablack woman who I would I'd pick just
out of the head Tracy Chapman,a person who can talk articulate, very
articulate about music. Not good enough? Not good enough? So what does
that even means? What does thatmean? What does what does speaking articulately
about music mean? If it justmeans talking about your craft? Or are
(15:31):
you talking about the xs and ohsof like fingering guitars and and are you
giving a book report or Because ifthat's the case, I don't want to
I wouldn't want to read that book, right, I don't want to read
a textbook about these guys. Soyou know what I think I want to
go ahead, go ahead. No, what what I would say is my
(15:52):
guess because and I'm I'm taking thisperspective only because I think this guy's a
bigot, right, I mean luckyguess right. My guess is when he
says articulate, he means just likehow racists mean it against you know,
Oh this is black purple, youspeak so articulately. Yeah, I think
(16:14):
what he means is they can playthe music, but they don't understand it
right, Like the idea of youcould play a song, but you can't
read music right, like there isthere isn't an intellectual aspect to understanding the
music. Again, I'd like toput that guy's music knowledge up against Prince.
There's a like there's a very famousvideo. I don't know where Prince
(16:37):
is playing, but it's like it'sa live performance and there's like all these
like famous guitars. I think likeclapped in his their fuck air clapping by
the way, just as a sideNo, he's an asshole, but like
I think it's like clapped in andlike all of these other like major major
names in rock and they're all kindof like playing together or whatever. And
(16:59):
then like inscribes a guitar and plays. You watch all of them, just
watch Prince, and they are inawe. They're like, holy shit,
Prince is the most amazing guitarst we'veever seen. And by all accounts by
people who actually really know music,they're like, yeah, dude, like
he's incrediblee incredibly underrated because most Americansdon't know that Black Americans do. But
(17:19):
yeah, like they were just like, holy shit, this guy's incredible.
Yeah, he's incredible, like andhe can do it all. So like
that idea that black people women,I mean, like I'm just just looking
up like female musicians. I wasjust just trying, just trying to get
some names in my head, Likeyou're gonna make an argument that Arisa Franklin
(17:41):
couldn't talk like like about the intricaciesof music, Like really, like that's
insane to me. Madonna, TinaTurner, Dude, Tina Turner, are
you fucking serious? Like, buteven if you go to that Tina Turner
was the one, and I'm like, come on, you know, like
(18:03):
I just like that's that's like,that's insane. And let alone, if
you're talking about women of like thesixties and seventies, right, you can
even move into modern era stuff,and there are there are musicians that can
speak quite beautifully about music. That'slike, actually one of my favorite,
like one of my favorite things islike listening to musicians talk about like the
(18:27):
intricacies in music, because I like, it's not my thing that I like
that I fully like, I likewhat I like, but I don't like
fully understand all those sort of mechanitionsbehind the scenes. And it's cool to
listen to people talk about that.I have certainly listened to black people and
women and white men talk about itequally as interesting, Like I don't like
(18:48):
there is a deep seated hatred youhave to have for those other groups to
believe that there was nobody you couldtalk to, and those those two very
large groups of people like no,I couldn't find anybody who's smart enough about
this ship like that could just thatlike you ran a rolling stone. This
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dot com slash b o DC likeYeah Yo, like the first The first
(20:45):
ten issues of Rolling Stone featured inorder of appearance John Lennon number one,
number two, Tina Turner, Yo, right, I mean you were working
there right, number three, TheBeatles, number four, Jimmy Hendrix,
uh number five, Jim Morrison,number six, Janis Joplin number seven,
(21:10):
Jimmie Hendricks again, like it's weird, but you know what else is really
fucked up? And you know,let me know if I'm if I'm reaching
right. But this is a formof like rolling Stone is a periodical of
note in the music industry, rightlike it is. And that is when
(21:34):
you have people like that at thetop, like rolling Stone is, it's
gatekeeping, right Like there are somepeople who who only like get there,
not their musical taste, but gettheir musical inside or hey, what does
rolling Stone thing? Like rolling Stonehas influenced and for people to and it's
(22:02):
a form of gate keeping to justbe like, well, I didn't like
this music from this person, eventhough they're playing rock and roll music but
they're but but but why wouldn't youlike it? Because well they're black and
have vaginas and or have vagina.I don't know, man, it just
(22:22):
seems it just it just seems itjust seems fucked up on a on a
systematic level, right, Like whenpeople talk about system systemic racism, like
even if this guy, I'm well, I don't think this guy's a racist,
right, I don't think it's aracist, you use the right word.
(22:45):
I think he's just a bit ofa bigot. And if if we
had people like that in power,how are others going to be recognized for
the accomplishments? Like this is whatThis is what people talk about all the
time when they're talking about systemic racism, and people just don't understand it,
right like here this here, thisguy that's founded this magazine, he built,
(23:08):
he helped build the system, andand he has these, you know,
for lack of a what we're better, we're bigoted thoughts and this is
it. This is his systemic racism. Is he's pretty he's pretty unapologetic about
it, right, Like it's onething, Oh I realize, Like is
(23:29):
that fucked up? What I said? Like he's like, I don't really
go fuck Like maybe I should havehad a diversity hosit you mus lead me
alone, like this is what hesaid. That's what he said, right,
Like like you're you're absolutely right.And one of the things that drives
me crazy. Is this idea thatlike certain music is valid and other music
is invalid. Like I used tohave that point of view when I was
(23:52):
like a kid. Right, countrymusic isn't real music. I don't like
it. What kind of like Okay, that doesn't really make sense, right,
Like that's stupid, And that's whatthis feels like. It feels like
a very juvenile look at music fromthe founder of Rolling Stone. What a
bizarre fucking thing, right, Like, Okay, you don't like a certain
(24:15):
genre of music, you don't respecta certain genre of music as much as
you respect another. That's fine,Like I don't. I'm not a country
music fan, like I'm just I'mnot. I don't think it's necessarily like
like you know, completely useless orsomething that I think. I think it
speaks to a lot of people.I think, much like most music now,
(24:36):
it's very corporate and it's not whatit was back in the day,
right like country music used to be, like rebel music like it used to
be. Right now, it's justlike they play giant stadiums and it's a
bunch of fucking multi millionaires pretending tobe like farm hands and shit, right
like that, like that shit isobvious, So it doesn't really appeal to
me, but I get why itappeals to others. So I'm I'm going
(25:00):
to just dismiss it as being likeeverybody who's in that genre is bullshit,
Like that's stupid, Like while he'ssaying this, because what it The sort
of breadcrumbs that I follow from thisis, Oh, if black people aren't
articulate enough to talk about music,then black music isn't that articulate, and
it's only it's only black music isonly great when it's put into the hands
(25:22):
of white men, which to mesays that you also think other genres of
music that are dominated by black peopleis also bullshit, right, So I
just assume until I hear otherwise,I assume, and you could say,
well, this is fair or notfair, much like him, Fuck it,
I don't care. I assume youdon't think any rap artists are articulate,
(25:44):
right, or that their genre ofmusic is valid, because a lot
of white men his age actually dobelieve that, right, So it's it's
like, to your point, itis a level of gate keeping, right,
Neil Granted, Rolling Stone Magazine hasplenty of rap artists on the covers
and everything else, right, Likethey have no problem in promoting it because
it is the music of this countryat this point. It is because music.
(26:07):
It's pop music, right, it'sthe dominant music right, right.
But I do I do hope thatthese kind of views are on the dying
end of society, right, Likethis guy is an older guy, ain't
gonna be around that much longer.Whatever. That's a good thing, right,
Like I'm not talking about his death. Its motherfuck about the die.
(26:36):
I'm not saying that. I'm alsonot not saying that, right, but
but my point being that those viewsare dying, right, like, and
that's a good thing, right,And and in some ways seeing him say
that and seeing his age and stufflike that, and then seeing the amount
of pushback, that's a good thingbecause like, easily they could have been
(26:57):
like and these are the people youpicked great tell us about the book,
and just like no level of conversationabout that, And then it comes out
and then people are like, yo, what the fuck, Like there's nobody
of color, there's no because hedidn't just say he didn't. He says,
you know, he didn't find blackpeople or women articulate enough to be
(27:17):
in his be interviewed by him orbeing this book. He's also including everybody
else, right like that like Latinfolks, Latin music is its own fucking
gen bro bro like and and andyeah, yo, like he's not yeah,
(27:37):
it's not just blacks and women.It's literally everyone that's not a white
man. He just didn't even mentiony'all. Like he didn't even mention,
right, That's that's how little hethinks of you, Right, He's like,
the blacks are pretty loud, andthe women and don't stop talking.
We'll mention them. Fuck them,but we'll mention them, right like,
So like that to me? Isthat to me says a lot about that
(28:00):
sort of mentality, but it does, it does, in a weird way,
show you the progress that they calledthis out immediately the interview. They're
like, whoa, whoa, whoa, this is kind of bullshit, because
like you can't possibly live in twentytwenty three and be like, yeah,
there's no black artists I've every knowcontributed to anything worth a dam in music,
(28:21):
Like I'm sorry, right like,and like he's never wanted he's never
wanted to talk to a black artist. He's never wanted to talk to Stevie
wonder to be like, hey,you can't see how can you play the
piano? Right? Like you've neverwanted to take les, dude, Like
like you've never you've never wanted tojust sit down and have it comes Like
(28:44):
if you don't want to sit down, like I don't know music, but
I'd sit down and talk to BadBunny just like yo, why the fuck
you pick your name to be badBunny? Yo? Also like you're a
really good wrestler, like like weird, but but like but like that's that
shows me that there's just a laglike you claim to be like this big
(29:06):
music buff, but that just showslike a lack of like curiosity. Yeah,
yeah, just a your taste ignorance. Man, Like I mean it
donne sucked, but like is boring? Right? No? No, but
like no, I'm saying your tastesucks right like because there are those artists
pick up from other artists, rightlike like there's there's that there's like there's
(29:30):
an interview with like Farrell is interviewingor sitting there not really an interview,
but sit down sat down with likeDave Grohl right from Foo Fighters and used
to be the drummer for Nirvana andhe was talking to him as a funny
clip. He's talking to him andhe said that he was like he had
a part Dave Rolls. He hada party at his house and I forget
(29:53):
I think it's Tony Curtis Is thatis the drummer for the Gat band,
right, and like he was thereand he was like, hey, man,
like I owe you so much,like I copied your style like so
much during my Nirvana days. Andhe was like yeah, I know,
like like he was like all ofthat, like disco ship, like all
of that he took, right.Dave Grohl took what was inarguably almost one
(30:22):
hundred percent focused black music. Blackpeople fucked with the Gap band almost exclusively,
right, like a bunch of countryasked niggas making amazing music, right,
I love the Gap Right. Hetook their drumming sound and brought that
to mainstream grunge music for a whitekid, dirty white kids in Seattle,
extremely dirty white kids, right,and he made that sound like they know
(30:47):
that sound. He literally would nothave had that famous bom bom bom the
way he starts all of those Nirvanasongs if it wasn't for a black man
but that's not relevant enough to oneto talk to those guys. It's not
relevant enough to think about what thoseguys contribute it. Right at the same
time, going the other way,right, we all love method Man right.
(31:11):
The way method Man spells his nameout in music is from a Hall
and Note song like it is.He talks about that like I'm not making
it up, like doud he reallyno, he talks about that because he
fucked with Hall and Oates. Like. One of the things that I always
find weird is when people who likea certain genre of music hate another genre
(31:32):
of music, but the people theylisten to listen to that genre of music.
I'm like, yo, like andpull from it right like that to
me is the weirdest thing, LikeI could never listen to that, like
you're listening to it right now,like right now, it's It's it's bizarre.
I saw like I follow like someInstagram account. I can't remember what
(31:52):
it is, but they like dissectsongs right like old school songs of like
where did they get like this thisparticular are like beat from and stuff like
that. There's like some wild oneswhere you would never you would never think,
like, oh that classic song camefrom like they ripped it off of
something else or whatever, and it'sa it's a lot of like white artists
who went to black artists who werelike took a part of their songs and
(32:15):
stuff like that, and like theycredited them obviously, but like those sounds
make it into mainstream white culture andit's like, oh, look look what
we created. No you didn't,Now you didn't. You just remixed it.
But you know, men of thisguy's age would be like rap music
is invalid because they just remixed whitepeople's music. I'm like, what do
y'all think y'all got the music from? Like you think you got it from?
(32:37):
Right? So it's it's it's justkind of amazing, Like what is
it the Rolling Stones? Like GimmeShelter, which is a very very famous
song, Like the background vocals inthat is a black woman, Like I
didn't know that. Like I sawa clok the other day and and they
were talking about like the I forgetthe woman name, like she got called
(33:01):
into the studio like they needed somethingto like jazz up the song. They
were like, this is like nothidden and like some producer knew this black
woman they were in England or someshit like that. They called this woman
up at three in the morning.She came to the studio in her house
coat and fucking belted that shit outin like one take, and they were
like, this is amazing. Wecould never find someone to do this,
(33:22):
and that's why that song this isas popular as it is. Right,
Like, so those guys that youare saying are these rock and roll legends,
they don't even agree with you asfar as their contributions that got them
there, Like it's it's bizarre,man, Like, one of the worst
things you can do is is closeyourself off to other music. Like music
(33:43):
is culture and if you start toactually expand and listen to it, you'll
pick up other shit. You're like, damn, I didn't know this came
from there, Like, yeah,there's a song I was listening to the
other day and I was like,oh, jay Z absolutely used this in
one of his songs, right,and it's just like yeah, yeah,
but it's like it's pretty sure it'sby like a white group like whatever,
like but it sounds great, Likethey both of the songs sound great,
(34:05):
So I don't limit yourself. Likeit's weird that the founder of this music
magazine would be so limited in whathe sees as like value music. That's
his bizarre today, right, andan interest of fairness. I guess here's
his apology. I apologize will heartilyfor those remarks, he said through his
(34:27):
publisher Little Brown and Company. Hecontinued defending The Masters as a series of
interviews that quote seemed to me tobest represent an idea of rock and roll's
impact on the world, and notthe whole of music. He added that
his book does not reflect his appreciationand admiration quote for other artists. He
(34:53):
continued, quote, I totally understandthe inflammatory nature of badly chosen words and
deeply apologize and accept the consequences.I know you understand, because you're told
the Times reporter maybe I should havethrown in a black and maybe I should
have thrown in a woman to avoidall this. But I don't give a
(35:14):
fuck or whatever, like to saywhatever. It's like, that's that's that's
a wild flax. You're like,well, whatever, I'll give a fuck.
God damn. By the way,if you were, can you read
the beginning of that where or thepart where he talks about like the point
of The Masters was you know totalk about like the creation or he so
(35:37):
he defended the Masters as a seriesof interviews. That quote seemed to me
to best represent the idea of rockand roll's impact on the world and not
the whole of music. All right, that you couldn't have talked a little
Richard, arguably the father of rockand roll music, arguable father. You're
(35:59):
gonna talked to him that he justdied, you know, like he didn't
he didn't die it long ago.Like that's crazy to me. Rock and
rolls impact on the world. LittleRichard, you know, Little fucking Richard
one a hell of a personality,a hell of a personality, right,
Like you could have talked a littleRichard, you say, Little Richard would
(36:21):
be an interesting fucking interview. Idon't know all about music. If Little
Richard's ghost came into this room,I would interview him right now. Holy
shit, are you serious? Iseen an interview with Little Richard. He's
amazing, you know, like hejust didn't give a fuck, right,
He's the guy who did not givea fuck. Right, But like that
guy did his music, had peoplecopy his music, push it out to
(36:46):
white audiences, become more popular thanhim. He had people who worked for
him, white people who worked forhim, because I believe Mick Jagger worked
for Little Richard. He worked forhim, and then then he became more
popular by taking that style. LittleRichard's not a person you'd want to talk
(37:07):
to. That's insane, man,you're a bigot. Like there's no there's
no argument, you know, there'sno argument. Hey, let's try to
figure out the impact of rock androll is Little Richard around? Yeah,
we should probably call Little Richard.That's crazy. Like I remember seeing an
interview with him. He was likeMcJagger worked for me, Like I think
(37:27):
James Brown working, dude, SoJames Browd Do you want to talk to
James Brown? Come on, dude, that's insane. You know you do
want to talk to Joni Mitchell?Like that's crazy, man, that's crazy.
That's wild. Like the eighties,the entire eight Yeah, the entire
eighties. Rock and roll eighties wasdominated by Madonna. Do you want to
(37:52):
talk to Madonna? She's still alive, you know, she's still Little Richard.
No about rock and roll. Godtutti fruity. No one will listen
to that except for everybody, exceptfor everybody. So yeah, that's he'll
not talk. Your little Richard isoffensive, Like that's offensive, Like that's
crazy. Oh shit, yeah,so fuck this guy. But like for
(38:16):
really they're like bro, like fuckthis guy like that that actually legitimately makes
me mad. After hearing that quotea seconds, Hostling, Yeah, that's
a rocket roll in the world,like like that, get the fuck out
of here. All right. Thatis it for us. We will be
back next week for another episode wherewe will be talking about hustle and Flow.
(38:40):
I can't wait. I wonder ifI wonder if this guy talked to
Terrence Howards, I'm gonna be talkedto three six Mafia because they are award
winning musical artists Oscar Award winning Oscar. They just they didn't want to They
didn't just win like a Saturn award. Didn't want an Oscar like everything hearing
(39:02):
crazy. All right, that's itfor us. We'll see you guys on
time see yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, thank
I have no idea the last time, make change man. Let's wrap with
James Sonnets you know. Hello,welcome to a brand new preview episode for
Black and Black Cinema. I'm yourhost, jam Here my co host Michael.
(00:27):
Hey, al right, guys,we're back. This is a preview
for episode two fifty, Hustle andFlow. I did not choose this movie.
Who did? Yeah? Ironically wedid. Yeah, you're you're super
who did? Yeah? Okay,you're gonna try to uh yeah. This,
of course, is the two thousandand five film directed by Craig Brewer,
(00:51):
also written by Craig Brewer, starringTerrence Howard, uh Ludicrous, and
Anthony Anderson. Look Terrence and troff this week on this previous episode,
but they will return for Hustle andFlow. Let me give you the log
line for this movie. With helpfrom his friends, a Memphis pimp in
a midlife crisis that's hilarious to meattempts to become a successful hip hop MC.
(01:15):
Now, as I'm reading this,I assume that Mike and Terence would
read this as AMICI not MC becauseit's spelled out. You have a serious
problem with understanding words. No,it's it's pronounced mick. Oh, yeah,
I'm sorry. Yeah, the Eis in in fact Land. Look,
(01:36):
I've never seen Hustle and Flow.I've never really had a need to.
I do know that this movie did, in fact win an Oscar,
which I think is hilarious. Ithink it's what that's the Three six Mafia
Oscar, Right, they won forHustle and Flow. Yeah, I'll never
forget it because John Stewart, Ibelieve it was the host, and he
came up and said, he said, what did he say? He said,
(01:57):
he named like three fame movie directors, right, and then he and
then he ended it with three sixMafia, Like all these motherfuckers just won
Academy Award and you we can't either, all right, So there you go,
Hustle and Flow. Next week youcan find it, you can rent
(02:19):
it and everything else. And itwas on what'd you say it was on?
It's on Max. It's on yeah, Max. It's on HBO Max.
Yeah. So if you have HBOMax or Max or whatever, you
can watch it there for free.All right, So we will dig into
that, I'm sure thoroughly next week, and before we get into the topic
(02:40):
this week, we'll be right backwith a commercial break. Okay, So
random topics this week is all aboutwhat's this guy? Uh Yan Winner.
So he is the founder of RollingStone magazine and he's coming out with a
(03:01):
new book called The Masters. Andduring the publication, during the run up
to the release of this book,The Masters, which is just a bunch
of interviews that he did with BobDylan, Jerry Garcia, Mick Jagger,
John Lennon, Bruce Springsteen, PeteTownsend and Bono that that's what the book
(03:27):
is, right. And during theyou know, press tour for this,
he spoke to The New York Times. He didn't speak to some like you
know fly by Night, like youknow internet only site, right, Like
this is the New York Times,right, And he said that the one
(03:50):
of the interviewers said, Hey,why are non white artists or women missing
from this book? And he saidjan Winner said, he asserted that he
did not interview women who were quotearticulate enough on this intellectual level to speak
(04:11):
deeply about music. Apparently this istwo things that women and black people aren't
articulate enough to speak about. Abunch of do remise and so Fati does
and shit, they're not they're notintelligent enough to speak on music. Now,
(04:36):
look, this is ridiculous, thisis this is just white facilliness,
right, Like, like if youyou would have been better off just saying
I didn't listen to the style ofmusic that women play, or I didn't
listen to the style of music thatblack people play. This. I interviewed
(04:57):
these people because this is what Iliked, And that's fine. Right,
everyone's got a difference, right,right, there's nothing wrong with that.
It still would be a right,it's still be weird, like considering like
it's not like black people have notcontributed and created rocket roll, like created
the genre. But if you said, hey, this is a very specific
(05:17):
time again, I'm trying to getthis guy as much lu Wiz I can
like that, there could be apossible avenue where you could say, well,
actually I'm not a bigoted piece ofshit. But like, it's real
hard to believe that you're not right. It's it's almost impossible. Yeah,
So the interview pushed back, citingfemale artists like Madonna or Johnny Mitchell,
(05:41):
and Win a point pivoted to talkabout, uh, black artists. He's
to get that fucking racism. Hewas like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
I still want a fuck white woman. So let me let me just
move on, hold on, holdon. So he responded by saying,
it's not that they're inarticulate, althoughgo have a deep conversation with Grace Slick
(06:06):
or Janis Joplin. Please be myguest. You know, Joni Mitchell was
not a philosopher of rock and roll. She didn't, in my mind,
meet the test as of black artists. You know, Stevie Wonder genius,
right. I suppose when you usea word as broad as masters, the
(06:29):
fault is using that word maybe MarvinGay or Curtis Mayfield. Oh no,
they just didn't articulate at that level. How do you know that? Like,
how do you know that? Likehow do you know that? Like
you're telling me you couldn't have adeep conversation about music with Marvin Gay?
You tell you, Like, Yo, that's insane, That's an insane thing
(06:50):
to say. Here, here's here'sa here's a black person who really really
knows music. Unfortunately they're not alive. But again, there are people he's
talking about that he's clearly done interviewswith, like a long time ago,
John Lennon for instance, not alivenow right, So them being alive is
not an argument for you know theseinterviews, right, He's done him a
(07:11):
year years ago. Prince one ofthe most accomplished musicians of all time.
I believe Prince played like twenty differentinstruments, was by any account, a
musical genius, a genius, likean actual genius, like yeah, not
like how the word now right,and look, I'm say this and is
(07:34):
not to be a dick, butit is to be a bit of a
dick. He prints is a musicalgenius, unlike how people say Kanye West
is a musical genius. Right.I don't believe Kanye is a musical genius.
I think he's very talented when hedoesn't have his head up his ass,
but I don't think he's a musicalgenius. Prince is a was literally
a musical genius. Right, There'sa different understanding of also playing instruments and
(07:58):
being able to play multiple instruments likethat is a level of actual genius like
it is, and that's and that'snot to discredit Kanye's ability. I just
don't put them on I don't putthem in the same path. Right,
Prince was arguably a musical genius.One could argue Michael Jackson was a musical
genius right, Like he didn't plays, he didn't play instruments like that,
(08:20):
Like I mean, I think heplayed guitar obviously when he was a kid,
but like he didn't play like guitarpiano fucking blah blah blah blah blah
blah blah like Prince did. Buthe was also still a like lyrically and
everything else. He was a fuckinggenius as well. He's a genius level
and sonically man and sonically like peoplethink. People think that Mike Oh,
people think that Michael Jackson just sayslike this, No, Yo, that's
(08:43):
a put on. That's a puton like he has. He has a
vocal range that that is very underratedbecause here it is you can hear it
in his music like those are backupsingers. That's him him singing each octave
of a lyric and then and thenmelting that stuff together to fill to uh
(09:07):
fill out the chorus. Uh.Look, the the quote doesn't end there.
He's He's also quoted as saying,you know, just for public relations
sake, maybe I should have goneand found one black and one woman artist
to include here that didn't measure upto the same historical standard, just to
(09:33):
avert this kind of criticism, whichI get I had a chance to do
that. Maybe I'm old fashioned.I don't give a fucker whatever. Wow.
Wait did he say I don't givea fucker whatever? Yes, s
I know you added that. Wow, Holy shit. I mean I guess
he don't like I guess he don't. God damn he does not. So
(09:54):
apparently this guy got removed from theboard of directors for Rolling Stone, which
you all right, I mean he'sa fount. Yeah, he's at that
point of right, right, VinceMcMahon got removed from the board of directors
of w w A and now he'sback right like okay, Like what a
what a slap on the wrist touh, to be transparent. He did
(10:20):
apologize through a publicist. I believe. I'm trying to say if I can
find it, but he did apologize. I didn't really, it was just
it was a pretty standard apology.Dude. That is okay, let's let's
(10:43):
let's dig into this a little bit, like there are the ideas that look,
they're on its face, it's ridiculousthat black people, and you know,
black people in general and women ingeneral couldn't speak articulate, articulate enough
(11:03):
to warrant his like approval, whichis crazy to me, Like, I
don't think the people on your listwould agree with you, you know what
I mean, Like Bob Dylan,John Lennon, Bruce Springsteen, these guys
would even agree with you, dude, Like they wouldn't agree with you,
Like, no, who are theother people on the list, because the
(11:24):
article I have doesn't list everybody?Uh was Garcia? Uh yeah, Jerry
Garcia definitely would not agree with you. I just close the tap hold on,
I'll find it, But go aheadand make your point. But like,
if the people that you're interviewing wouldn'tagree with you, then I'm pretty
(11:48):
sure your point is dumb as fuckedlike it it makes no sense and so
on its face to say that theycouldn't be articulate enough to talk about the
music is weird to to then.Also, you called the look like it's
referring to like these masters of thecraft. Like again, like I just
saw I just saw a quote fromlike it was like Keith Richards or something
(12:11):
like that, who was Like Iwouldn't be here if it wasn't for black
black music. It's like yeah,like at least from the Rolling Stones,
like the Fuck, one of themost popular bands of all time, and
it's like yeah, yeah, likewe all our entire sound two black people.
So to say that we could notbe articulate enough doesn't make sense.
(12:31):
To say that they're not masters ofthe craft is ridiculous because the masters of
the craft that you're picking copied fromblack people. Like what the fuck black
people in almost every genre of music. Black people are at the core of
American made music, are at thecore of its inception. You ever heard
music before black people got involved init, like old school, like real
(12:54):
like early you know, early whitemusic. It sounds terrible. Even white
people thought it sounded terrible, andthen they were like Ohan, they doesn't
making music. Oh thank god,I ain't like that. A lot of
barbershop quartets and nonsense and bo BobDylan mc jagger, John Lennon, Jerry
(13:15):
Garcia and Pete Townshend town Towns Townsendagain like this this is those guys would
not pick would not agree with him, I'm sure, and and Bruce Springsteen,
Yeah maybe maybe he would maybe hewould agree with you. Maybe,
maybe he would agree with yeah,sucking springste Yeah, maybe Bruce Racing will
(13:37):
take time out from doing his podcastwith the first black president to agree that
black people are articulate enough to talkabout rock music? What the fuck are
you talking about? By the way, when he's when he's not busy,
when he's not busy writing his anthem, his American anthem born in the USA,
which is which is critical, critical, right right, Like first Price
(14:00):
is one one of the most liberalfucking musicians that's in the modern era who
it's ever existed. And people arelike, oh, I love Border Backer,
you know, or Border in theUSA. That's a that's a great
buzzi songs. You've never listened tothe lyrics. You've never listened to the
lyrics at all. That's fucking wildto me. But I just and you
know, and not too we wouldbe remiss to say the same thing about
(14:22):
women, like women couldn't be like, dude, come on, like,
I'm I'm like, I immediately thinkof black women's contribution to music, which
is which is in and of itselfa whole different conversation, but just women
in general, like like the articlethis NPR article mentions, like you didn't
(14:43):
think Janis Joplin as a person youcouldn't have talked too about music? Are
you fucking serious? She was thehardened She was one of the hardened soul
of the entire hippie movement. Dude, what the fuck are you talking about?
Like I'm a cast? Like yeah, I mean like these people died
young, no doubt because because drugs, But like there are plenty of other
women who are massive contributors to tomusic like that, Like that is this
(15:09):
deeply, deeply offensive? Like ablack woman who I would I'd pick just
out of the head Tracy Chapman,a person who can talk articulate, very
articulate about music. Not good enough? Not good enough? So what does
that even means? What does thatmean? What does what does speaking articulately
about music mean? If it justmeans talking about your craft? Or are
(15:31):
you talking about the xs and ohsof like fingering guitars and and are you
giving a book report or Because ifthat's the case, I don't want to
I wouldn't want to read that book, right, I don't want to read
a textbook about these guys. Soyou know what I think I want to
go ahead, go ahead. No, what what I would say is my
(15:52):
guess because and I'm I'm taking thisperspective only because I think this guy's a
bigot, right, I mean luckyguess right. My guess is when he
says articulate, he means just likehow racists mean it against you know,
Oh this is black purple, youspeak so articulately. Yeah, I think
(16:14):
what he means is they can playthe music, but they don't understand it
right, Like the idea of youcould play a song, but you can't
read music right, like there isthere isn't an intellectual aspect to understanding the
music. Again, I'd like toput that guy's music knowledge up against Prince.
There's a like there's a very famousvideo. I don't know where Prince
(16:37):
is playing, but it's like it'sa live performance and there's like all these
like famous guitars. I think likeclapped in his their fuck air clapping by
the way, just as a sideNo, he's an asshole, but like
I think it's like clapped in andlike all of these other like major major
names in rock and they're all kindof like playing together or whatever. And
(16:59):
then like inscribes a guitar and plays. You watch all of them, just
watch Prince, and they are inawe. They're like, holy shit,
Prince is the most amazing guitarst we'veever seen. And by all accounts by
people who actually really know music,they're like, yeah, dude, like
he's incrediblee incredibly underrated because most Americansdon't know that Black Americans do. But
(17:19):
yeah, like they were just like, holy shit, this guy's incredible.
Yeah, he's incredible, like andhe can do it all. So like
that idea that black people women,I mean, like I'm just just looking
up like female musicians. I wasjust just trying, just trying to get
some names in my head, Likeyou're gonna make an argument that Arisa Franklin
(17:41):
couldn't talk like like about the intricaciesof music, Like really, like that's
insane to me. Madonna, TinaTurner, Dude, Tina Turner, are
you fucking serious? Like, buteven if you go to that Tina Turner
was the one, and I'm like, come on, you know, like
(18:03):
I just like that's that's like,that's insane. And let alone, if
you're talking about women of like thesixties and seventies, right, you can
even move into modern era stuff,and there are there are musicians that can
speak quite beautifully about music. That'slike, actually one of my favorite,
like one of my favorite things islike listening to musicians talk about like the
(18:27):
intricacies in music, because I like, it's not my thing that I like
that I fully like, I likewhat I like, but I don't like
fully understand all those sort of mechanitionsbehind the scenes. And it's cool to
listen to people talk about that.I have certainly listened to black people and
women and white men talk about itequally as interesting, Like I don't like
(18:48):
there is a deep seated hatred youhave to have for those other groups to
believe that there was nobody you couldtalk to, and those those two very
large groups of people like no,I couldn't find anybody who's smart enough about
this ship like that could just thatlike you ran a rolling stone. This
show was sponsored by Better Help.Sometimes circumstances in life, perhaps unexpectedly,
(19:14):
can lead you to moments of worry, self doubt, or depression. Rather
than be a product of those circumstances, you can take control and be a
product of your decisions. So Therewas a time where I needed to go
to therapy after my wife and Itrying to have kids and things didn't work
(19:37):
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my life. I've talked about thaton a previous episode a preview episode,
but therapy really helped. So Ihighly recommend getting those thoughts out of your
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dot com slash b o DC likeYeah Yo, like the first The first
(20:45):
ten issues of Rolling Stone featured inorder of appearance John Lennon number one,
number two, Tina Turner, Yo, right, I mean you were working
there right, number three, TheBeatles, number four, Jimmy Hendrix,
uh number five, Jim Morrison,number six, Janis Joplin number seven,
(21:10):
Jimmie Hendricks again, like it's weird, but you know what else is really
fucked up? And you know,let me know if I'm if I'm reaching
right. But this is a formof like rolling Stone is a periodical of
note in the music industry, rightlike it is. And that is when
(21:34):
you have people like that at thetop, like rolling Stone is, it's
gatekeeping, right Like there are somepeople who who only like get there,
not their musical taste, but gettheir musical inside or hey, what does
rolling Stone thing? Like rolling Stonehas influenced and for people to and it's
(22:02):
a form of gate keeping to justbe like, well, I didn't like
this music from this person, eventhough they're playing rock and roll music but
they're but but but why wouldn't youlike it? Because well they're black and
have vaginas and or have vagina.I don't know, man, it just
(22:22):
seems it just it just seems itjust seems fucked up on a on a
systematic level, right, Like whenpeople talk about system systemic racism, like
even if this guy, I'm well, I don't think this guy's a racist,
right, I don't think it's aracist, you use the right word.
(22:45):
I think he's just a bit ofa bigot. And if if we
had people like that in power,how are others going to be recognized for
the accomplishments? Like this is whatThis is what people talk about all the
time when they're talking about systemic racism, and people just don't understand it,
right like here this here, thisguy that's founded this magazine, he built,
(23:08):
he helped build the system, andand he has these, you know,
for lack of a what we're better, we're bigoted thoughts and this is
it. This is his systemic racism. Is he's pretty he's pretty unapologetic about
it, right, Like it's onething, Oh I realize, Like is
(23:29):
that fucked up? What I said? Like he's like, I don't really
go fuck Like maybe I should havehad a diversity hosit you mus lead me
alone, like this is what hesaid. That's what he said, right,
Like like you're you're absolutely right.And one of the things that drives
me crazy. Is this idea thatlike certain music is valid and other music
is invalid. Like I used tohave that point of view when I was
(23:52):
like a kid. Right, countrymusic isn't real music. I don't like
it. What kind of like Okay, that doesn't really make sense, right,
Like that's stupid, And that's whatthis feels like. It feels like
a very juvenile look at music fromthe founder of Rolling Stone. What a
bizarre fucking thing, right, Like, Okay, you don't like a certain
(24:15):
genre of music, you don't respecta certain genre of music as much as
you respect another. That's fine,Like I don't. I'm not a country
music fan, like I'm just I'mnot. I don't think it's necessarily like
like you know, completely useless orsomething that I think. I think it
speaks to a lot of people.I think, much like most music now,
(24:36):
it's very corporate and it's not whatit was back in the day,
right like country music used to be, like rebel music like it used to
be. Right now, it's justlike they play giant stadiums and it's a
bunch of fucking multi millionaires pretending tobe like farm hands and shit, right
like that, like that shit isobvious, So it doesn't really appeal to
me, but I get why itappeals to others. So I'm I'm going
(25:00):
to just dismiss it as being likeeverybody who's in that genre is bullshit,
Like that's stupid, Like while he'ssaying this, because what it The sort
of breadcrumbs that I follow from thisis, Oh, if black people aren't
articulate enough to talk about music,then black music isn't that articulate, and
it's only it's only black music isonly great when it's put into the hands
(25:22):
of white men, which to mesays that you also think other genres of
music that are dominated by black peopleis also bullshit, right, So I
just assume until I hear otherwise,I assume, and you could say,
well, this is fair or notfair, much like him, Fuck it,
I don't care. I assume youdon't think any rap artists are articulate,
(25:44):
right, or that their genre ofmusic is valid, because a lot
of white men his age actually dobelieve that, right, So it's it's
like, to your point, itis a level of gate keeping, right,
Neil Granted, Rolling Stone Magazine hasplenty of rap artists on the covers
and everything else, right, Likethey have no problem in promoting it because
it is the music of this countryat this point. It is because music.
(26:07):
It's pop music, right, it'sthe dominant music right, right.
But I do I do hope thatthese kind of views are on the dying
end of society, right, Likethis guy is an older guy, ain't
gonna be around that much longer.Whatever. That's a good thing, right,
Like I'm not talking about his death. Its motherfuck about the die.
(26:36):
I'm not saying that. I'm alsonot not saying that, right, but
but my point being that those viewsare dying, right, like, and
that's a good thing, right,And and in some ways seeing him say
that and seeing his age and stufflike that, and then seeing the amount
of pushback, that's a good thingbecause like, easily they could have been
(26:57):
like and these are the people youpicked great tell us about the book,
and just like no level of conversationabout that, And then it comes out
and then people are like, yo, what the fuck, Like there's nobody
of color, there's no because hedidn't just say he didn't. He says,
you know, he didn't find blackpeople or women articulate enough to be
(27:17):
in his be interviewed by him orbeing this book. He's also including everybody
else, right like that like Latinfolks, Latin music is its own fucking
gen bro bro like and and andyeah, yo, like he's not yeah,
(27:37):
it's not just blacks and women.It's literally everyone that's not a white
man. He just didn't even mentiony'all. Like he didn't even mention,
right, That's that's how little hethinks of you, Right, He's like,
the blacks are pretty loud, andthe women and don't stop talking.
We'll mention them. Fuck them,but we'll mention them, right like,
So like that to me? Isthat to me says a lot about that
(28:00):
sort of mentality, but it does, it does, in a weird way,
show you the progress that they calledthis out immediately the interview. They're
like, whoa, whoa, whoa, this is kind of bullshit, because
like you can't possibly live in twentytwenty three and be like, yeah,
there's no black artists I've every knowcontributed to anything worth a dam in music,
(28:21):
Like I'm sorry, right like,and like he's never wanted he's never
wanted to talk to a black artist. He's never wanted to talk to Stevie
wonder to be like, hey,you can't see how can you play the
piano? Right? Like you've neverwanted to take les, dude, Like
like you've never you've never wanted tojust sit down and have it comes Like
(28:44):
if you don't want to sit down, like I don't know music, but
I'd sit down and talk to BadBunny just like yo, why the fuck
you pick your name to be badBunny? Yo? Also like you're a
really good wrestler, like like weird, but but like but like that's that
shows me that there's just a laglike you claim to be like this big
(29:06):
music buff, but that just showslike a lack of like curiosity. Yeah,
yeah, just a your taste ignorance. Man, Like I mean it
donne sucked, but like is boring? Right? No? No, but
like no, I'm saying your tastesucks right like because there are those artists
pick up from other artists, rightlike like there's there's that there's like there's
(29:30):
an interview with like Farrell is interviewingor sitting there not really an interview,
but sit down sat down with likeDave Grohl right from Foo Fighters and used
to be the drummer for Nirvana andhe was talking to him as a funny
clip. He's talking to him andhe said that he was like he had
a part Dave Rolls. He hada party at his house and I forget
(29:53):
I think it's Tony Curtis Is thatis the drummer for the Gat band,
right, and like he was thereand he was like, hey, man,
like I owe you so much,like I copied your style like so
much during my Nirvana days. Andhe was like yeah, I know,
like like he was like all ofthat, like disco ship, like all
of that he took, right.Dave Grohl took what was inarguably almost one
(30:22):
hundred percent focused black music. Blackpeople fucked with the Gap band almost exclusively,
right, like a bunch of countryasked niggas making amazing music, right,
I love the Gap Right. Hetook their drumming sound and brought that
to mainstream grunge music for a whitekid, dirty white kids in Seattle,
extremely dirty white kids, right,and he made that sound like they know
(30:47):
that sound. He literally would nothave had that famous bom bom bom the
way he starts all of those Nirvanasongs if it wasn't for a black man
but that's not relevant enough to oneto talk to those guys. It's not
relevant enough to think about what thoseguys contribute it. Right at the same
time, going the other way,right, we all love method Man right.
(31:11):
The way method Man spells his nameout in music is from a Hall
and Note song like it is.He talks about that like I'm not making
it up, like doud he reallyno, he talks about that because he
fucked with Hall and Oates. Like. One of the things that I always
find weird is when people who likea certain genre of music hate another genre
(31:32):
of music, but the people theylisten to listen to that genre of music.
I'm like, yo, like andpull from it right like that to
me is the weirdest thing, LikeI could never listen to that, like
you're listening to it right now,like right now, it's It's it's bizarre.
I saw like I follow like someInstagram account. I can't remember what
(31:52):
it is, but they like dissectsongs right like old school songs of like
where did they get like this thisparticular are like beat from and stuff like
that. There's like some wild oneswhere you would never you would never think,
like, oh that classic song camefrom like they ripped it off of
something else or whatever, and it'sa it's a lot of like white artists
who went to black artists who werelike took a part of their songs and
(32:15):
stuff like that, and like theycredited them obviously, but like those sounds
make it into mainstream white culture andit's like, oh, look look what
we created. No you didn't,Now you didn't. You just remixed it.
But you know, men of thisguy's age would be like rap music
is invalid because they just remixed whitepeople's music. I'm like, what do
y'all think y'all got the music from? Like you think you got it from?
(32:37):
Right? So it's it's it's justkind of amazing, Like what is
it the Rolling Stones? Like GimmeShelter, which is a very very famous
song, Like the background vocals inthat is a black woman, Like I
didn't know that. Like I sawa clok the other day and and they
were talking about like the I forgetthe woman name, like she got called
(33:01):
into the studio like they needed somethingto like jazz up the song. They
were like, this is like nothidden and like some producer knew this black
woman they were in England or someshit like that. They called this woman
up at three in the morning.She came to the studio in her house
coat and fucking belted that shit outin like one take, and they were
like, this is amazing. Wecould never find someone to do this,
(33:22):
and that's why that song this isas popular as it is. Right,
Like, so those guys that youare saying are these rock and roll legends,
they don't even agree with you asfar as their contributions that got them
there, Like it's it's bizarre,man, Like, one of the worst
things you can do is is closeyourself off to other music. Like music
(33:43):
is culture and if you start toactually expand and listen to it, you'll
pick up other shit. You're like, damn, I didn't know this came
from there, Like, yeah,there's a song I was listening to the
other day and I was like,oh, jay Z absolutely used this in
one of his songs, right,and it's just like yeah, yeah,
but it's like it's pretty sure it'sby like a white group like whatever,
like but it sounds great, Likethey both of the songs sound great,
(34:05):
So I don't limit yourself. Likeit's weird that the founder of this music
magazine would be so limited in whathe sees as like value music. That's
his bizarre today, right, andan interest of fairness. I guess here's
his apology. I apologize will heartilyfor those remarks, he said through his
(34:27):
publisher Little Brown and Company. Hecontinued defending The Masters as a series of
interviews that quote seemed to me tobest represent an idea of rock and roll's
impact on the world, and notthe whole of music. He added that
his book does not reflect his appreciationand admiration quote for other artists. He
(34:53):
continued, quote, I totally understandthe inflammatory nature of badly chosen words and
deeply apologize and accept the consequences.I know you understand, because you're told
the Times reporter maybe I should havethrown in a black and maybe I should
have thrown in a woman to avoidall this. But I don't give a
(35:14):
fuck or whatever, like to saywhatever. It's like, that's that's that's
a wild flax. You're like,well, whatever, I'll give a fuck.
God damn. By the way,if you were, can you read
the beginning of that where or thepart where he talks about like the point
of The Masters was you know totalk about like the creation or he so
(35:37):
he defended the Masters as a seriesof interviews. That quote seemed to me
to best represent the idea of rockand roll's impact on the world and not
the whole of music. All right, that you couldn't have talked a little
Richard, arguably the father of rockand roll music, arguable father. You're
(35:59):
gonna talked to him that he justdied, you know, like he didn't
he didn't die it long ago.Like that's crazy to me. Rock and
rolls impact on the world. LittleRichard, you know, Little fucking Richard
one a hell of a personality,a hell of a personality, right,
Like you could have talked a littleRichard, you say, Little Richard would
(36:21):
be an interesting fucking interview. Idon't know all about music. If Little
Richard's ghost came into this room,I would interview him right now. Holy
shit, are you serious? Iseen an interview with Little Richard. He's
amazing, you know, like hejust didn't give a fuck, right,
He's the guy who did not givea fuck. Right, But like that
guy did his music, had peoplecopy his music, push it out to
(36:46):
white audiences, become more popular thanhim. He had people who worked for
him, white people who worked forhim, because I believe Mick Jagger worked
for Little Richard. He worked forhim, and then then he became more
popular by taking that style. LittleRichard's not a person you'd want to talk
(37:07):
to. That's insane, man,you're a bigot. Like there's no there's
no argument, you know, there'sno argument. Hey, let's try to
figure out the impact of rock androll is Little Richard around? Yeah,
we should probably call Little Richard.That's crazy. Like I remember seeing an
interview with him. He was likeMcJagger worked for me, Like I think
(37:27):
James Brown working, dude, SoJames Browd Do you want to talk to
James Brown? Come on, dude, that's insane. You know you do
want to talk to Joni Mitchell?Like that's crazy, man, that's crazy.
That's wild. Like the eighties,the entire eight Yeah, the entire
eighties. Rock and roll eighties wasdominated by Madonna. Do you want to
(37:52):
talk to Madonna? She's still alive, you know, she's still Little Richard.
No about rock and roll. Godtutti fruity. No one will listen
to that except for everybody, exceptfor everybody. So yeah, that's he'll
not talk. Your little Richard isoffensive, Like that's offensive, Like that's
crazy. Oh shit, yeah,so fuck this guy. But like for
(38:16):
really they're like bro, like fuckthis guy like that that actually legitimately makes
me mad. After hearing that quotea seconds, Hostling, Yeah, that's
a rocket roll in the world,like like that, get the fuck out
of here. All right. Thatis it for us. We will be
back next week for another episode wherewe will be talking about hustle and Flow.
(38:40):
I can't wait. I wonder ifI wonder if this guy talked to
Terrence Howards, I'm gonna be talkedto three six Mafia because they are award
winning musical artists Oscar Award winning Oscar. They just they didn't want to They
didn't just win like a Saturn award. Didn't want an Oscar like everything hearing
(39:02):
crazy. All right, that's itfor us. We'll see you guys on
time see yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, thank
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