Season 1 : Episode 5 Jessamyn Stanley : Our Place in Yoga

Ashley and Jessamyn take a deep dive into the conversation yoga studios aren't willing to have. The yoga talk will change you perspective about the yoga community you.

Episode Transcript

(00:03):
So you know, we were firstand foremost. I just want to say
thanks for coming on the show.I really do appreciate you sharing your voice
with us and sharing your you know, position in the yoga space as we
move into this crazy time that wehave going on where everybody's world is a

(00:24):
little upside down, working our waythrough quarantine. If you will, I'm
grateful to for you to share yourtime and to be on with us today.
If you want to introduce yourself tothe to the people, let them
know who you are and what youdo and all that gus stuff. Please
thank you so much for having me. My name is Jessamine Stanley. I'm
from Durham, North Carolina, ayoga teacher, an entrepreneur and author.

(00:49):
I'm the author of Everybody Yoga andthe founder of the Underbelly Yoga and the
host of Dear Jess, a podcastavailable literally anywhere the podcast can be found.
And I just really resonate with everythingthat Black yo Magazine has to bring
to the table. And I'm reallyhonored and humbled to be here. Thanks

(01:10):
for having me. Well, We'reglad to have you on so the the
Black Yoga Magazine and the Black YogaExpunion's podcast is meant to kind of give
choice to some of the things thatwe seem not to be able to talk
about in the yoga space, asas people of color and just people in
general being more open to the conversationnot only about race, but about the

(01:34):
fact that there's a whole host ofpeople that are kind of neglected in the
yoga world and not marketed to,not kind of they are just, to
be frank, you're not marketed to. And that yoga itself in many a
spaces and it's I guess darker corners, if you will, is seems to
be marketed in this elitist manner thatit's for only for a certain group of

(02:00):
people and only certain folks have accessto it. I would love to hear
what your yoga experiences have been.Have you run into things like that,
and you know, in addition tothat, you know what brought you to
the matt in the first place.Absolutely. I mean, so, I'm
based in North Carolina. I'm fromNorth Carolina, and I never had any

(02:24):
context even to this moment, havenever had any context for like a very
diverse yoga community at all. Likeone of the things that I remember the
most whenever I first started practicing werebeing the only Like I started practicing when
I was in graduate school. Iwas going through a period of depression that

(02:45):
I think it's probably common for anyonewho's been in their early twenties. It
was basically like I don't know whoI am, I don't know what I'm
doing, et cetera. And Istarted practicing yoga excuse me because one of
my classmates was obsessed with beeforn yogaat the time, and she was like,
oh my god, you got totry it. It's going to change

(03:06):
your whole life. And I wasreally against it because I had tried yoga
once when I was in high school, specifically be grom yoga when I was
in high school, and absolutely hatedit. It was just the worst experience.
And so when she initially brought itup, I was like, I'm
not doing that shit. But shegot me caught up on a group on
as you do, and I waslike, what's the worst that could happen?
I go one time. I paidtwenty dollars or whatever it was,

(03:28):
and I ended up really really lovingthough, and everything was so hard for
me. Everything about the practice,like even just you know, sitting cross
legged, sitting on my shins,like everything seemed completely impossible to me.
But what I didn't realize is thatI, in my day to day life,

(03:50):
had put up a lot of boundariesthat were not allowing me to extend
myself or try anything new or learnanything about myself. And of my depression
I now, looking back, Ithink was coming from that being feeling himden
and feeling boxed in and allowing myanxiety to rule. And my yoga practice

(04:13):
just opened that up completely. Andit was very alienating at first because I
was the only I mean, inaddition to being like one of the only
fat body people in the room,I was frequently the only black person,
and it was just so like,I don't see myself represented in this space.
But I also had been familiar withDiane Bondi and Anna Guest Jelly,

(04:39):
and I was familiar with them.My mom has been ironically a subscriber of
Yoga Journal back then. She'd beena subscriber for years at that point,
so I had like heard these differentnames and I was familiar with it,
but I still just didn't really seeit as something that I should do.
But when I got into it,I like, oh, okay, I

(05:00):
guess this is fine. You knowthose couple of curvy people that I've seen
do it, Diane Bondie, I'mlike, okay, I see a black
person here, so I'm like,I know that this is for me.
But I really didn't start to honemy practice until I dropped out of graduate
school. I moved to Durham,where I live now, and during that
time, I couldn't afford to practiceyoga in studios. I couldn't afford to.

(05:24):
I mean, the only reason thatI could afford to go to practice
before is because I had a workstudy at the studio that I was going
to, and when I moved toDurham, there weren't those same opportunities available,
and so I stopped practicing for aperiod of time. And during that
time a lot of things happened thatjust shook my world upside down. But

(05:45):
one of the things that I wroteabout in my book Everybody Yoga Is and
my aunt passed away, and duringthat time, I just found myself slipping
back into the place that I'd beenin before I started practicing yoga, and
I thought, you know, canI just start practicing at the house.
What was making me feel good beforeit was yoga. Okay, let me
just start figuring out how I cando this at the house without any money.

(06:06):
And so I had this one cornerof my living room. My partner
and I were sharing this really tinyapartment, and we had this one corner
that I would just push all thefurniture out of and I had my dad's
old pilates met and I would justroll out that met and I would practice

(06:26):
the eight to ten postures from thebeak from sequence that I felt comfortable practicing
by myself without a teacher, andit just became my medicine. I would
just be like, oh, it'stime to take my medicine, and I
would just do the practice that feltgood to me. And over time,
like when I could afford to,I would go out to classes. And
that's how I started to become morefamiliar with Vinyasa style, which is the

(06:49):
style that I teach now, andI became more familiar with other lineages and
just became really enamored with like yogahilosophyand wanting to learn as much as I
possibly could. And it really happenedoutside the confines of studio culture though,
so that I think that if Ihad been if I felt attached to practicing

(07:13):
in studios, I probably would nothave continued to practice yoga because it was
so alienating and I to see solittle representation. But because I was practicing
at home, I felt very comfortablebeing in that space, And as time
went on, I started posting aboutmy yoga practice on social media because I

(07:34):
wanted to. This was before likeeveryone in their mom was on Instagram.
This was when the app like firstcame out, and there were a few
yoga people on there, and itwas mostly people, excuse me, just
taking photos of their practice to getfeedback from one another to because you know,
like a home practice can be kindof isolating. So it was nice

(07:55):
to just feel like I was apart of a community and feel like I
could get feedback from my people.But over time, it's grown into a
way to really see how diverse theyoga world actually is and how little of
that is represented, not just instudio culture, but also like just in
the mainstream media. Yeah, I'mI'm one hundred and ten percent with you

(08:20):
there that it is deeply underrepresented.It represented in studio culture as well as
mainstream media. Wized because it's justand like you said, you don't know
until you're in it that point,there's other people that look like me that
do this too, and it isto be found in that way if you

(08:41):
were to be seen. And Ican sympathize and understand where you said that
had you been deeply attached to thestudio experience itself, that you would not
have probably would not have continued forpractice, because you're right, it is
alienating that in the studio that Iattend myself, I happen to be having

(09:03):
conversations with someone a few well,actually it's quite a few weeks back,
because it's prior to us being inquarantine plants, and I was playing that
the huh, I've said, ohthe time before, remember before quarantine exactly
exactly we need to restart the twentytwenty. But I digress. So when

(09:31):
I was explaining, I was tryingto explain to someone the experience of when
you're in places that aren't diverse andalso inclusive, that there's still this kind
of armor that you have to wearwhen you participate in the world when you're
only right. So when you're ina studio space and you want so much

(09:54):
to be able to put that downbecause the practice offers that to you,
right, Like it's it's this opendoor for you to kind of drop off
all of your nonsense and baggage andreally dig into who you are as a
person. However, many a time, the spaces that you're in, that's
kind of a counterintuitive thing to do, right, regardless of how nice people,
it is deeply counterintuitive for you asa person, right because we all

(10:18):
have this set of rules, ifyou will, that have been ingrained to
us since we were on this sideof the rainbow, If that makes any
sense. So no, I justI mean, I can't. I hate
to cut you off, I justreally cannot agree with you more. I
was talking to another practitioner one time. He's he's black as well, and

(10:39):
he was saying that, you know, how is he supposed to feel a
sense of calm in a space wherehe is frequently the only black man and
he's in a room full of whitewomen who have been taught to be afraid
of him. So how is hesupposed to like find some sense of calm
in this space where and feel asense of safety in a space where he

(11:03):
is not allowed to be safe?And it's just this thing that I think
we I mean, I'll add itto the list of ways in which black
people, and I mean people ofcolored more generally, the black people are
not allowed to experience all of ourall of the difficulties of our lives.

(11:24):
I think that even when he broughtit up, I was like, shit,
are we allowed to comment on that? Yeah? But I feel like
completely, but like I hadn't eventhought that I was allowed to think,
Oh, it is so true,right, Like do we say that there's
an elephant in the room or arewe going to be perceived as or or
are are kids going to be characterizedas being witty or banter or or what's

(11:52):
the other one? I want hsad owing the race card? Yeah,
causing problems? Yeah, it's alwayshas been a light of like we're creating
a problem right right? Are there? Because and what I want to implore
people to understand is the reason thatwe think along those lines is typically when

(12:16):
we speak up in spaces, thoseare the comments and the response that we're
made. So this is not stuffthat we're making up out of whole cloth.
This is us speaking based off ofexperiences that we've had. When it
comes to stepping into these types ofconversations. Right, So, like I
was saying with the story I wastelling before, too, when I tried

(12:39):
to broach this topic, I couldphysically watch the body language of the people
that I was talking to change,and I could see them become uncomfortable even
though the conversation continued. I couldtell that they were being brought into a
space that they did not know howto manage emotionally. Right, So,

(13:00):
with me being not only in thisparticular conversation, it's now a question of
do I continue on this path ordo I fail? Because no matter what
I say, they're not going tounderstand where I'm coming from exactly, no
exactly. It's like, is iteven worth it to have this conversation because
it's and you know what, I'vethe place that I'm kind of coming to

(13:22):
about this is that I don't havetime to explain my trauma to us.
I still have time for it,so I think, because I think,
frankly, everyone has their own shitto deal with, and what I would
really like to see more is beingspecific white yoga people having conversations with other

(13:43):
white yoga people, not trying toeducate people of color about how we can
be inclusive and be diverse. Iwould like to see people actually doing especially,
I mean, you must feel thisand see this in the South.
It's like we're literally living in theshadow of Jim Crow and y'all don't want
to talk about it. How arewe how are we supposed to actually be
here in this space? And here'swhat I've I think I feel as of

(14:07):
late, And I'm not one hundredpercent sure that that. I don't want
to say, I'm not one hundredpercent sure that the tools are available for
them to talk about it, becausewe even personally, we talk about it

(14:28):
with each other, right, becausethere's a matter, there's a there's a
modicum of comfortability in the conversation,right because we all know that this is
an experience that we've all had acrossthe board, even if you say that
you haven't in some way, shapeor form, So you can all we
can all speak to this in someway, right, So we kind of

(14:50):
have the tools to have these conversationsby default, if that makes any sense
whatsoever. And we also we alsocan have them because we have to.
It's not like we're magically exempt fromit in some way, shape or form,
just because we quote unquote pull ourpants up, comb our hair a
certain way, or are college educated. None of those things exempt us from

(15:13):
this particular conversation. News Flash,America, that stuff doesn't work. I
just want y'all to know, right, So I don't know, And not
only do I do, I wonderI should say not that I don't know.
I wonder if they have the ability, if it's within them. And
I also wonder if they're just sogosh darned uncomfortable that they're just so damn

(15:41):
uncomfortable that they it's just become somethingto avoid in yoga. Everywhere else is
what it is, but in yogaspaces in particular, because yoga also lends
itself to spiritually bypassing, right,because you get on the mat so great,
and you know, you're rides highand all this kind of stuff,
and and to have someone to stepin and go, hey, y'all,

(16:03):
hey, hey girl, I justwant you to know that your experience it's
not my yoga experience. And I'llfeel good about this. You know,
people seem to consider you to bethe quote unquote downer or whatever when you're
trying to absolutely you know, andI just think that if someone is unwilling

(16:26):
to have difficult conversations, then I'mvery deeply confused about the yoga that they're
practicing, because yoga is only aboutdifficult conversations, first with the self,
then with others. And I think, like, if there's so many people
who are committed to this fantasy ofwhat yoga is, this idea that like,

(16:47):
you know, you practice the posesthey make you feel good, you're
magically a yogi, You're magically likezen and calm, and everything is going
to be perfect. And I justfind that those things have so little to
do with what yoga actually is.But it's it's genuinely confusing for me,
so that I'm like, I don'tthat leads to sort of like what's the

(17:10):
word that I'm looking for, separatism, Like it leads to this feeling of
like I just don't want to bein communities in which that where conversations are
not being had. And I doagree with you that, like it's much
easier to have conversations like this withother black people because they understand and I
feel like those are only people thatI need to have that conversation with them.
If that's who, if that's theonly people that are willing to have

(17:33):
it, then that's the only peopleI can have that conversation with. And
I feel like there's this there's thisthing that happens in conversations about inclusivity with
yoga where white practitioners feel as thoughthere is a responsibility of black practitioners to
explain their experience and then to bea part of the diversifying of the homogenous

(18:00):
spaces. So, like, youknow, we were talking before about some
studios, a lot of studios wherethere is a complete absence of diversity.
And I noticed in a teaching tourthat I just wrapped up at the start
of this year, a lot ofthe studios that I went to visit around
the country they had asked me tocome teach there because they do not have

(18:22):
a diverse teaching step. And itwas fascinating all over literally, like in
every region of the country, therewere studios where they'd be like they'd reached
out, like we've got to haveyou come teach. This'd be great.
And and then I got there andI realized like, not only were the
classes way more diverse, the teacherswho taught at those studios would say like,

(18:45):
Wow, these classes are way morediverse than they typically are, and
then people who were totend the classwould be like, Yeah, you're the
first black person, you're the firstfat person, you know, whatever the
thing is like that has ever beenhere. And I think that there's a
feeling with these white studio owners andpractitioners that black practitioners and other practitioners of

(19:07):
color have a responsibility to help themdiversify the spaces. And my feeling with
that is, why do we whyshould we have to do that if it's
all just to try to make moremoney. Ultimately, the only reason that
they really care about inclusivity and diversityis because they want to make more money.
And I'm just like, I'm flummoxedby this, by this need to

(19:32):
like fake diversify, have fake conversations, and it makes me just feel like,
yeah, I'm just gonna not beI'm just not going to kick it
if y'all and it's fine, it'sno shamee, it's no shame. Have
fun with whatever that is. Butyou don't have anything to right and it's
a matter of like, like yousaid, it's a fake diversity. And

(19:55):
what I always question is do y'allreally want this is this, I feel
exactly exactly like or or have Iand you see it that they're not right
or here's and here's how you knowAnd this is what I tell people too.
If you walk into the space andthey happen to have a clothing shop
and none of the clothing caters topeople who are beyond a size five,

(20:19):
they're not about dislike, that's it. That's exactly right. It's the simple
stuff. If it's so small details, right, if that is an excellent
indicator too, because if you arenot even willing to see that, like,
because it's not that the brands thatcarry larger sizes don't exist, it's

(20:40):
that they don't seek them out.Like it's just it's fascinating to see.
And then I think, you know, if you really want people, because
they'll just feel like, you know, how can we get more people?
You have to diversify from the topdown, and I mean, like from
the leadership level down. There needsto be a like a and it's not
just like find one person and thenhope that they bring everybody else. It's

(21:03):
like, understand, why understand yourracism? See it, acknowledge it,
don't be ashamed. It's not abad everybody has their I feel like a
lot of people are afraid to accepttheir own internalized racism. They're there.
It's it's what you were saying about, like if you bring it up,
then you're you're not being fun orlike you're being a downer. It's like

(21:26):
you're unwilling to look at the truth. And if you're unwilling to look at
that truth, I just don't understandhow you can have the results that you
seek. So it's just I mean, it's it's a problem yet again,
like from the very top down.Concluding with other yoga magazines as well,

(21:48):
I think it's an issue from thetop down there as well. In his
Like I I'm not opposed to thosemagazines. I have no yoga jo because
I mean, it's been around foreverand it's one of the few things that
represents the thing that I practice andI enjoy, so so I'm not opposed

(22:11):
to it. It's just that Idon't necessarily know. Let me back it
up and say it this way.If the cover that someone on, uh,
if the cover has a person ofcolor and it still feels like they're
the token person for that publication forthat year, something still not right.

(22:32):
About this particular situation exactly, that'sexactly right. I mean, I just
wow, I'm trying to think ofwhere to start with this because I have
many thoughts about YO. I mean, like, I I appreciate the the
longevity that Yoga Journal has had andthe reach that they have within the community,

(22:56):
and I do think that over time, like over the last year or
two, they definitely made great stridestoward showing a more balanced representation of what
the yoga community actually looks like,not even like trying to like pull things
out, like like I think thatthey might feel like they're like, wow,

(23:17):
look at these niche communities of peoplewithin our community, and it's like,
no, you're actually just showing inaccurate, a more accurate depiction of
what has always been happening. ButI think that they and not just them,
but I think that there's a feelingthat like if you get one then
that's enough, or that if youyou know, you know. I think

(23:41):
that. So I was on thecover of Yoga Journal. It's been a
little more than a year ago,and that experience what's fascinating to me because
I was told ahead of time thatI would be the sole person on the
cover, and then whenever the covercame out, they ended up doing a
job no I know, they dida double cover with another tea. Well,

(24:11):
you know, the thing that reallycame up for me through that experience
was because I mean I found thisout at Bunting Noble when I went to
get my copy, and I thought, like, you know, what is
it within me that needed the validationof this establishment? Like, what is
it? It's the little girl whowent to a predominantly white middle school who

(24:33):
wanted to feel like she's part ofthe group, that is, who isn't
who now has her feelings her becauseyou see that this is like And then
whenever I after the fact, Ihad a conversation with the editor in chief
wherein she was deeply apologetic about everything, and I just expressed to her that
ultimately I wasn't surprised because this wasn'tthe first time that something like that had

(24:53):
happened to me, where there wasobviously other forces at play, and it
was something that like she did notwant to hear that the magazine does not
take any they don't feel any connectionto. But to me, it just
felt like such a profound reminder ofhow how immense the power of white supremacy

(25:14):
is and how it's something that youknow, me being on the cover of
Yoga Journal is not going to fixand that there's that the internal work is
way more important than anything that canbe shown to anyone else. But it
is important your voice. And thisis the part that I was pissed off
about so fora and at that pointI I hadn't had a conversation with you

(25:44):
at all, right, but I'mkissed because here the story and I saw
it in anyway. So the partof you that was hurt is valid,
the part of you that that neededto have your that the life and experience
of that little girl reckoned with isvalid because that experience is my experience,

(26:11):
is my experience, is my mother'sexperience. So so the the fact that
those feelings went unheard once again,that's the part that pisses me off.
It's not it's not even the underhandednessof the whole situation, because like you

(26:32):
said, that's almost expected, likewe know what, we know what time
it is. It's it's not thatit's not that you're unaware, right,
and being in the South, ifnot teach you teaches you anything. It's
to always be on notice. Okay, Like that's right, exactly, Oh

(26:52):
right, that's the nature of livingin this in this area, if you're
in this part of the country.So with however, it does not make
you feel better about the things thatgo on, even though you intellectually know
and understand that this is how itis. Your heart does not have the

(27:14):
space for your heart does not havea place in it that says I'm no
longer this little girl that just wantto do belong. I think you know
what's really interesting to me is that, first of all, I was so
thrilled by how many people were pissedabout it, and I felt like I
was watching it kind of like almostlike a little bit from the sidelines,

(27:37):
like I mean, I have adouble cancer. I was like, I
have a lot of feelings about thisthat I could cry at everybody about forever.
And part of my work is justunderstanding those that's being unique to me
and something that I want to saythat that's my yoga. But what I
loved was the outpouring and the outburst, and I loved how people were picking

(28:00):
sides and everyone is showing their truecolors. I mean, like you're seeing
people having to engage on topics thatthey have never wanted to engage on.
And I remember talking to the EICand she just kept saying, you know,
I hate that this happened because Ithink that it distracted from this conversation

(28:21):
that we that yoga Journal wants tohave. And I said, I think
that y'all started exactly the conversation thatyoga journal need. Yeah, we never
think we don't. It was exactlywhat needed to happen. I thought that
the way that it happened was exactlythe way it needs to happen, because
that is real. That is whathappens to us every day. And I

(28:42):
think that what was yeah, whatwas more beautiful to me than my own
pain and frustration because I mean,again, I've been this little girl my
whole life, so I'm very familiarwith it. But what was more interesting
to me was the fact that otherpeople had something to say about it and
felt empowered to do so why Itell you, Like I said, I

(29:07):
at that point, I think Ijust oh, I had just found you.
Here's funny. I had just comeacross your ig. I had bought
your book already, I've had itfor years, and and the only and
the reason I bought it was becauseI went to Barnes and Noble looking for
somebody else, somebody that looked likeme on the cover of Yoga Book one

(29:30):
two. Then I read and Iwas like, this is cool. She's
a cool person. And then Iwas like, well, let me go
find you on i G. Andwhen I found you on IG that was
the first thing that I read.So my introduction was to be being super
pissed about this nonsense fuckery basically,but also not surprised by it. And

(29:56):
that's the part that makes me ane bit sad still always like I find
myself still being appointed that I'm notsurprised, you know what I'm saying,
because at some point I would liketo be pleasantly surprised that they're not on
some nonsense I don't know, likelike ID like to have, you know,

(30:18):
experienced where I could put all ofthat down and go, oh,
they really came through and saw meas a person and and not a prop
for their diversity. Now, soprops still something that is unrespected. And
I mean literally I needed that realitycheck truly, because I think that there's
this feeling that like they're glass ceilingsand we can break the glass ceiling,

(30:42):
and if there's just enough representation,then everything can work. Like racism is
in the it's in the foundation,it's it's polluted the soil, like we
are not. There's no getting aroundit. And and I think everything always
comes back to that because another thingthat yoga people will try to do is
try to make it about something otherthan race. They'll be like, Oh,

(31:04):
it's gender imbalance or it's this thingor whatever, like you know,
you know, white female lives mattertoo, or whatever, And I'm just
like, everything race first of all, and if you if you want to
really do this work, and Ijust think it's so there's so much opportunity

(31:26):
for us as modern yoga practitioners tohave this experience of like communicating with one
another about what about all of ourinternal shit? And it's just fascinating to
me how few people are really interestedin doing that work, but that there
is still so much opportunity for itto happen as well. Yeah, there

(31:48):
is. There is a ton ofa ton of opportunity for it to happen.
And I think conversations like this goa long way in opening up that
space, know, to allow aplace for for that dialogue to take place.
But like we were saying before,before we started to show that it's

(32:08):
still not our place nor our responsibilityto pick up the mantle to educate other
folks. Right we're having this conversation. We want to have this conversation.
I don't want to become like anylonger. Maybe when I was younger,
I think I had the patience forthis right or felt like it was my

(32:29):
job. But the older I get, the less I'm like, no,
it's just not my place to educateyou on the fact that you should care
about other people. Others literally,just just care about other people regardless of
the fact that they're brown. Likethat's all we're asking, you know that,
that's it. That's it, andrespect others and really like but you

(32:52):
know, it really comes down tothe fact that people don't respect themselves,
to be completely honest, And Imean, like, I don't want to
get too far away from from thepoint that we're making right now, but
it's like when I zoom out,it's like, Okay, well, how
can you respect other people if youdon't respect yourself? Like, how can
you look at someone else's experience asauthentic if you can't even look at your
own experience as authentic and like,I just I mean, I think that

(33:15):
there's there's a lot of faith yogahappening, honestly, and this is all
this is all just a part ofthe fake yoga cannon. Yeah, and
I don't want to be I'm notinterested in being cannon fodder for the faith
and go oh we just love oneverybody and your experiences aren't real, you
know, Like I'm not here forthat. Like y'all could tell me all

(33:37):
day long how glowing and exciting youare, but oh here, here's here's
why. This is a great exampleof that. I've been in a I
was actually complete my last time,but that's not the case for everybody.
So an example of that is thisI went, I was doing my three
hundred hour training and had to doa prenatal class, which sidebar, yoga

(34:07):
is not my thing. I findit extremely It's very stressful. I want
to do all. I don't wantto be emotionally freaked out, like it's
not my bag. Can I doit? Yes? Do I want to
do it? Hell? No?Anyway, So now y'all know that Ashley
is not the prenatal yoga teacher foryou. I digress. I'm not saying

(34:29):
don't come to I'm just saying Iprobably won't be the teacher for that class
anyway. I love that so much. Okay, sometimes life is about knowing
what you're good at. Right,Uh, that's exactly right. So I'm
in this course to learn, youknow, preno yoga and how we put

(34:50):
together a class and all this kindof good stuff. And one of the
comments that was made was something tothe tuna of, you know, this
is your time to love on youryour baby and love on yourself and this
is such a beautiful experience. Andall I could think of is for myself,
how pregnancy was not beautiful. Itwas not it's not beautiful. The

(35:14):
experiences that I were having from anemotional standpoint and a relational standpoint with with
in my own home weren't beautiful.So not everybody has that same experience,
right. So, when we areunwilling to have real conversations with people and

(35:37):
legitimately hold space, not just holdspace for the things that are happy and
exciting for folks, you you couldend up and making somebody really, really
uncomfortable. And even though it's uninten'sit's really a lack of awareness of the
fact that, hey, this maynot be the best experience for everybody.

(36:00):
Know that that your lived experience,be it with a doctor, a police
officer, a firefighter, cashier atDillard's, the waitress at denny, the
waffle house worker, the manager atT Mobile. It goes on and on

(36:25):
that your experience might not be everybodyelse's experience. Right, So being in
spaces where where whatever they are feelingis projected onto the rest of everyone else
as a whole can be deeply unfairand deeply uncomfortable. And then it leaves

(36:45):
this weird space where like we weresaying before, people like the down because
anyone that raises your hand and goes, hey, hey, hey, that's
not how I felt about that,That's not how I experienced this, but
nobody wants to have those hard conversations. It's very interesting because you see it
even now with like quarantine and withcoronavirus, that there's this there's like two

(37:08):
sides of the coin where or Iguess, the dark side, the light
side, whatever however you phrase it. But there's the side of people who
are like everything is miserable, andthen there's the side of people who are
like, everything's wonderful, what's theproblem? And I think that there has
to be this there's a deep needfor like realization of the darkness of it

(37:30):
all. Like there's no way toeven experience the levity if you can't actually
state the darkness of it if you'renot willing to look at it head on.
And it's like it's not fun andit's not pretty and it doesn't look
great, and it's not nobody likesit, but it is one hundred percent
necessary. And it's that what youwere saying just reminds me of that,

(37:51):
Like we're all so often so afraidto really accept what is I mean,
even whenever you talk about like whatI was saying about the guy who was
like, yeah, you know,how am I supposed to find calm as
a black man? And I waslike, are we allowed to talk about
that? Like I think there area lot of people who are like,
are we allowed to talk about this? Is it okay? And it's like

(38:12):
that's a part of it. Andwhen we talk about yoga specifically, yoga
is yoking the light and the darkof life. It's not everything is not
all good, Like there's no waythe part of the beauty I would I
mean, I'm saying this is someonewithout children, but I would think that
part of the beauty of having achild is that you went through this insane
human experience with this being that like, whether whether you wanted it or not,

(38:38):
whether you wanted them or not,whatever the cases, y'all went through
this shit together. You went througha war together, and like something that
only you can understand. And that'snot it's not like a p there's not
flowers everywhere through that experience. It'slike it's a deeply awakening experience that the

(38:58):
ugly is a part of what makesit beautiful, and and that that's it,
that part right there, the uglyis a part of what's made beautiful
because on the other side of myexperience, I have two awesome kids.
I would not trade anything in thisworld for them, and that part of
me a parent, as though thatis as crazy as all get out and

(39:19):
quarantine I am now a Spanish teacher, so absolutely nuts. Right now,
it's fun, right, it's rewarding, it's great, But I also realized
that in a case either you know, it's all sometimes it's just hard and
it's pay for it to be hard. I saw someone say someone post on

(39:45):
Instagram, Uh, something to thetune of like, you know, not
everybody is taken online classes through quarantineand learning something new and using this as
a time to better themselves. Youknow, some people's worlds are just falling
apart. And it's okay for meto say that it's really hard, Like
it doesn't have to be. Itdoesn't always have to be the pep talk

(40:08):
of you you'll get through this,you know, like exactly, you're not
doing it wrong. If it's hard, yes, like I don't know.
But but the again, like wewere saying that the yoga space is a
beautiful place to be in and itdeeply lends itself to us having these conversations.
We just have to be willing tohave them. Like that's it,

(40:30):
Like, just just be willing tosay it, you know, because you
can you give voice to something.That's when you gain your power over whatever
it is, exactly exactly, Butlike you have to be willing to use
your voice, and even if it'snot like that doesn't mean that you're like

(40:50):
giving it to the whole neighborhood.Sometimes you're just using your voice so that
you can hear it yourself, butlike just being able to do that,
Yes, I feel you. Andthat was my thing with the situation with
with UH with Yoga Journal, thatit wasn't necessarily about UH me personally fussing

(41:12):
at them per se, right,it was my own. It was my
own rage because this is a situationthat I've seen play out time and time
again and being able to yell itout, work it out, complain it
out just for myself. So thelittle girl that's within me now sympathize to
the little girl that's within you,and we can be angry about it together

(41:37):
because both of them need to beserved equally, right, Like both both
of their feelings are are just avalid need deserved to be to be heard
and don't and don't deserve to bestifled. So yeah, so where where

(41:58):
can we find you on the internetand people connect with you and get a
copy of your book? I feellike I should order give a bunch away
because the book is amazing and I'mthere. I'm humbled by that, honestly,
and everything that I create is justtrying to you know, just trying
to live my practice out loud,and it's everybody doesn't have to like it

(42:22):
or agree with it or do itthe same way. But I hope that
everyone will practice and you can practicewith me on my at my yoga studio,
the Underbelly, which is a digitalstudio. You can find us at
the Underbelly dot com. You canfind everything that I'm working on, including
my podcasts, books, phole Anti. You can find on Jessminstanley dot com,

(42:45):
and you can follow me on socialmedia at just at My name is
Jessmine on Twitter at Jessnodjazz, andyou can follow the Underbelly studio at the
Underbelly Yoga. Well. I'll putall of those in the show notes so
that way everybody can get connected withyou and you know, practice with Jessamine

(43:07):
and learn from her. She's onehell of a practitioner. I encourage you
all to to connect with her online. And UH, we're gonna do everything
that we can through a Black magazineand through the Black Yoga experience to connect
you with more teachers and colors,so you know that we're here and uh,

(43:27):
that we're available for you, andwe're definitely open to having these conversations
and that you're not in this alone. So guys, I appreciate you for
listening to today's show, and asalways, check us out online black wog
Magazine dot com and we're Black YogaMagazine on i G as well, and
we will talk with you soon