50. The Birth Year Chronicles

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:15):
Hello, everybody, Welcome back toBlonde's Booze and Bullshite. I'm Courtney and
I'm Davin, and we welcome youback to our ship show. Welcome back
to the brown Haired the blonde Head. I know, like I want to
say four non blondes, Like that'sthe only title that comes to my head
when you're like, what should wename it? And that's all I can
think of, and like it's neverWe're never gonna have a new name.

(00:37):
This is just gonna be it.I'm gonna be brunette and the world just
has to accept it. But I'mnot. I just don't like lies.
I don't like lies. I don'tlike lies. Who knows, maybe I
can convince you to go back blonde. No no, I was like,
oh, to change our name.Yeah, Oh, I don't know.
That'd be a lot of work.We could see we'll do a spinoff.
Will that make you happy? Thatcould make me happy? Do more.

(01:00):
Every time we do the clink atthe beginning when we have wine, I'm
always afraid we're going to break theglasses when we clink because these ones are
so thin. Mine too, though, And sometimes we're just like like I've
gotten I got a really nice They'renot nice, but I like the shape,
the nice big round ones from Walmart. And they were like twelve dollars
for four not great quality. It'shard. Words are definitely hard for me

(01:27):
today. These aren't either, They'rejust um. I was just shut.
One day, I went out andI was like, you know what,
I need new wine glasses. AndI went to UM, I went to
like Walmart, I went to Target. I I even went to like um
like a good Will to try tofind like some gut glasses, and I

(01:48):
couldn't find anything. Really like theywere all because everyone's getting drunk in twenty
twenty exactly, that's what it is. And UM, I didn't want to
go all the way down to Targetbecause we don't have a target too close
to us. It's actually like yeah, it's like twenty minutes away. I'm
like, okay, no, thankyou. I gotta make it special.
And I went to um Beale's outletand I got these ones. They were

(02:15):
they were like fifteen bucks, butthese are the only two left. Yeah.
Same with mine, like I wasliterally the last week. I was
washing mine and I was just washingthe romp and it snapped and I'm like,
oh that's happening. Okay, anythingfun, new, exciting for you,
news updates, anything you saw anythinglife? No again, I'm I've

(02:38):
been laying low. I went well, I mean, I went shopping with
my bestie last yesterday. Yes anything, could you get anything? Yes?
Buy me and me and my kidsWhen we all get together, it's just
like, because you know, mykids are so close with her, They're
like sisters, they're all the sameage. It's like, yeah, I

(02:59):
had I had my oldest and thenmy niece was born, and then my
youngest was born. Yeah, andmy kids are eighteen months apart, so
she's right in the middle of that. And so you know, we're you
know, we're just like walking around. We're like, should we just give
them a credit card? And justlike we'll just sit here and just chill
that way. But then they werelike, let's just go into this store.

(03:21):
And then we ended up buying probablymore than they did, yeah,
me and her, because we wentto this one store and that's where we
get like all my tink tops orwhatever, and so I loaded up on
them, and like some of thisstuff was like on sale, so I'm
like, yep, okay, allof this yeah, and then you know,
we went to we went to dinner. We went to Yard House.

(03:43):
Oh my god. They have thebest food. They have the best artists,
has the best nachos. I wouldgo there for happy hour all the
time, late at night, reversehappy hour. They're so good, they're
let Us raps are amazing. Nothingcan beat PF chains let Us Raps.
I love theirs. So yeah,yes, I agree, Yes, those
ones are good. But yeah,other than that, just shopping, shopping

(04:05):
with the best team. My boringlife. Welcome to my boring life.
Oh the same nothing. I'm readingmy one hundredth book of the year,
okay, and hitting my reading goal. What's funny is I was going to
ask you this closer obviously to NewYear's or the end of the year.
Okay, yeah, if you aregoing to, if you you know you're

(04:26):
going to make it to your goal, So I guess I don't have to
ask that question. Yeah, I'mI'm there, So I'll have to extend
it and we'll see how that goes. And stretch goal, yeah, my
stretch goal reading for the year.Um, so what is a number one
hundred? What book is? It'scalled Serpent and Dove, it's a y
a like fantasy book about like witches, and it's really good. I'm almost

(04:49):
done with it. I finished.I started last night and it's so freaking
good. Oh my god, You'reincredible. Sometimes sometimes, like with this
kind of book, I can goblow through it and like really get what's
going on. But then sometimes Ijust speed read to get it over with
and I'm like, Okay, Idon't even want to read this. We're
just gonna speed along. Or sometimesI speed read, but it's the comprehension

(05:15):
that gets me once I get intoit, Like it takes me sometimes,
like recently it's been taking me likea chapter to really understand what the fuck
is going on, And then onceI do that, I'm solid. Once
I have an understanding, I'm good. I don't know if this is a
thing. But do you ever worryabout oh like reading overload and like what

(05:35):
like where I won't want to read? Yeah, like you were just like
I need a chill with all thesebooks? Like do you ever need a
break, like a mental break,because you I mean you read a lot,
like that's all I do. Yeah, that's your spare time. Is
there any time where you're like pickyour nose, like pick your nose up
and like just kind of kind ofput it down for a little bit.

(05:58):
Do you ever do those? Yeah, Like if I notice that I'm not
reading as much in a day,because usually like my goal for myself is
like a hundred pages a day ifI can, and so if I notice
that I'm not really getting through it. Sometimes like I'm really hard to myself
even though I'm just reading because Iwant to read, I'm like I should
have got there, and I'm justlike, okay, take it slow,
it doesn't matter. And then likesometimes I watch TV or if I finish

(06:21):
like a myth book, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna do that.
But it just like it's not oftenit does very few times where that or
I'm gonna reading something I can't getinto a book. Like during this summer
or when Quarantine started, there weretimes where I started like three books at
once because I couldn't figure out whatI wanted to read, and I'm like,

(06:42):
none of this is working right now, I can't do any of it
right and then it just I don'tknow, it goes away and then I
just read because I've wondered that becauseI mean it's that's a lot of books.
That's a lot of books. Onehundred books and we're September twenty or

(07:04):
you know. Yeah, yeah,that is crazy to me. And I
can average sometimes like ten a month, so that is stupid at same times,
like I can't. Yeah, I'mprobably gonna average three a year at
best. See it. That's alwayswhat's so weird to me is like,
let's me coming like hardcore. Whenpeople don't read or they like maybe don't

(07:30):
read a lot, I just Idon't get it because it brings me so
much joy and it's like my escapekind of thing. And that's why I've
gone to a lot of YA rightnow, because one like YA has killing
the game. They're so like inclusiveand like feminist and badass, Like they're
just really hid in the mark rightnow, and I'm like, you know
what I could do with some witchesand other worldly ship right now? I

(07:50):
really don't want to pay attention towhat's going on right now. So Okay,
we're going to read this instead oflike a thriller. Okay, um,
but I am going to read morehorror books because I'm hosting a pretty
so excited interesting it's so funny becauseme and the girl who are running it.
I messaged her yesterday because we've beengetting tagged in post for people who

(08:11):
are doing it with us, andI was like, I think it's funny
that, at least on my part, I haven't started any of our books
on the rita than yet and otherpeople are. She's like, yeah,
same, I haven't started yet.Oh yeah. I was like, okay,
well because I had because so Ihad it some early copies from publishers.
I wanted to get read first,and so I finished one. So
speaking of this comes out after it'sreleased. It's called It Now She's Gone

(08:35):
by Rachel Householhall. That was sucha great book. It's about a pi
and um, there's just so muchto it. It's really great. Um.
So I read that one and thenI was like, I ordered Serpent
and dev there's two books in thatseries, and I ordered it because of
the second book. I loved thetitle, which is called Blood and Honey.
And then the covers are just gorgeous. I fucking need these books.

(08:58):
And then there were string at meon my shelf and then I was like,
okay, I have to read it. Like okay, I was like,
fine, I'll get it. I'llread them and so that's where I'm
at and then yeah, we'll seethat's awesome, that's awesome. I feel
like this is like our most uneventfulintro ever. It is it really,
it really is. Sorry, guys, we're not very exciting. Yeah,

(09:22):
not not. I don't think I'mgoing to get exciting next week either.
I got it, I got it. I got really nothing going on for
a little bit. Um. Imean, I got a friend's um reception
coming up next month. That's that'sall I got. I mean I might
do um, like a week goal. Okay, yeah that's what I'll probably

(09:43):
do. But good for you.Yeah, it was not fun at all,
but you know, I'll eat pastafor you. Gotcha. Um.
Well, we do have a shortepisode this week, but we have we're
doing something fun. So we're gonnapause, take a break. Go If
you're not drinking already and you're listeninto this podcast, one, what's wrong
with you too? Go fill youhast first. This was really boring.

(10:05):
I'm so sorry. I'm going tolike come with some true crime news next
time or something because fill those littlegaps. But we're going to pause for
a break. And then when wecome back, we are going to share
our cases. Welcome back. Sowe decided because, as you guys know,
if you've been following along, wehave been covering the same cases and

(10:26):
collaboring a lot on different cases thatwe find interesting. So but I did
kind of miss the surprise of notknowing what Courtney was going to cover and
getting to like sit back and justlisten and commentate. So we decided that
we were going to cover separate cases, still true crime, but we're covering
a case that happened the year wewere born. So who's going to go

(10:48):
first? You or me? No, I don't know. We didn't even
We haven't just we haven't even.I didn't even think of that, the
like choose that off, you gofirst? Entire eighty five? Okay,
aren't you eighty five? I amso with my case, Um, we
did nineteen I did nineteen eighty five, the year that I was born.

(11:11):
Now, Um, she did alot more crimes, but this is the
one that she got caught for.Oh, okay, Okay, so she
she she did a lot more,she murdered a lot more people, but
this is the one that she gotcaught with. Okay, and it was
um in nineteen eighty five. Interestingplace to start. I like, so

(11:35):
we're gonna do Mary Beth Row Nowshe was Mary Beth Tinning. Does this
sound familiar to you? Okay?Um, maybe when I go over this,
maybe you'll be like, Okay,I've heard something about this lady because
I vaguely remember her, um,because there was just like a reference to

(11:56):
her in like a movie or somethingone of those before. Okay, Okay.
So she was born September eleventh,nineteen forty two, in Duanesburg,
New York. Her parents were Ruthand Alton Lewis Rowe. Her father was
deployed to fight overseas in World WarTwo, and her mother worked as well

(12:20):
too well, since both the parentswere working, I don't know. I
don't have a lot on their childhood, on her childhood, but I don't
know what was going on with theseparents where they were like, hey,
can't take care of these kids,I just go somewhere. She went to
go live with an aunt, andher aunt wasn't very kind to her.

(12:41):
She was like, listen, youyour mistake. Your parents really didn't want
you. You were unwanted. Itwas she did. She killed her aunt
she doesn't kill her aunt. Heraunt. Her father did come home.
He did work as a press operatorfor General Electric, which was one of
the biggest companies that the time.Oh yeah, she was known to be
like a pretty normal girl. Um. There was rumors that her dad used

(13:07):
to kind of beat her and likelock her in a closet. Um,
so pretty heavy abuse. So butthen she said, like he had our
thritis and stuff, so he wouldhit me with a flyswatter because it's hand
didn't work. And that's still shewould send her to the room, um,
and they would put her the lockerin the room. But it was

(13:28):
because she was just being bad,And I was like, okay, Like
that one doesn't determine anything for me, because I'm like, okay, I
don't right. I mean, Imean, it's it could have been like
go to your room, you know. It just depends on however that was
it does. I think it's theact of locking them in their room or

(13:48):
locking them It was in a closetor her room exactly, and that's where,
yeah, like locked her in hercloset. And then she was like,
okay, well they locked me inthe room, but I was bad,
so I deserved it. And that'swhere I didn't see anything that was
like they locked the door with alock on the outside or a pad lock,
you know, nothing like I hada ball on the outside, right,

(14:11):
they had like a door or achair up against the Yeah. And
people come back, they're like,hey, what's that? Ignored it ignor
she's fine, scratching on the wall. It's just a dog. Um.
So after high school, she wentthrough high school and after I school she
became a nurse in about nineteen sixtyone, an angel of mercy. So

(14:33):
um kinda. I mean I'll determinecontinue, I mean like five percent,
like five percent, okay, asI think it's like Skenetchky New York cost.

(14:54):
I never know how to fucking saythat. Is that I have no
idea. D Yeah, and anyonein New York please tell us how to
say that. Fucking I'm telling youbecause I have no idea. Like I
was like, I seen him books, I'm like, I don't even know.
Yeah, can help. In nineteensixty three, she went on a
blind date with a man named Joseph. She called him Joe. This was

(15:16):
her husband. They did hit itoff. They were married in nineteen sixty
five. Two years after their wedding, they welcome to their first child,
Barbara. Barbara was born on Maythirty first, nineteen sixty seven. They
did have another child named Joseph Junior. He was born on January tenth,

(15:41):
nineteen seventy. Now this is wheretragedy has hit her life. Her father
had a sudden heart attack and hedied in October of nineteen seventy one.
Well, two months later after herfather. The loss of her father,
she gave birth to her third daughter, and her name was Jennifer on December

(16:03):
twenty sixth, nineteen seventy four.Baby okay, but after Christmas. But
if it wasn't enough that she losther father, Jennifer unfortunately died. She
only lived for eight days. Umfrom do you know from what? Um?
She had meningitis and an absessed thatwas developed in utero utero. Um.

(16:33):
Now, I've read a couple ofthings and I'll get into this a
little bit later. Um on childing. No, she wasn't drinking. Now,
two weeks later after this, herson Joseph was taken to the hospital
and she had he She said thathe had a seizure and he choked on
his vomit. And he stayed atthe for a little bit and after after

(16:59):
observation, they released him. Ineighteen later he died and eighteen days hopefully
I didn't say years, I'm sorry, eighteen years later he died. I'm
just trying to bring it back toduty. Boinao. Anyways, right right,
Um within hours of leaving the hospitalhe died. Came back and he

(17:21):
died of um basically a heart attack, and he died on January twentieth.
Is she poisoning them? Nineteen seventytwo, now six weeks after Joseph,
Barbara Barbara was what rushed to thesame hids. Barbara was rushed to the
same hospital, the same one sheworked at too, mind you okay,

(17:45):
due to convulsions. They said BarbaraBarbara Barbarah just stayed the night and Marybeth
was like, I'm not leaving herhere, absolutely not, so she took
her home. Within yet hours againchick shows up to the hospital and Barbara
was unconscious and then later passed.It was determining her death was swelling of

(18:10):
the brain and they thought that thiswas raised disease, but it was not
proven. She died on March second, nineteen seventy two. They did raise
an eyebrow with this because they werelike, okay, all three of her
kids are dead, correct, Hi, Diane down sound familiar. Yeah,

(18:30):
And they were like, yeah,you know, don't worry about it.
The first one, you know,she died in the hospital. She never
took the baby away. And that'sthe only one one I would give her
a pass on because it doesn't soundlike she had anything to do with it,
as I know. But the restis sketchy. I want to know,
one, how big were your insurancepolicies on these children? Because there
was no set of any insurance pulse, So why do it Munchausen's by proxy?

(18:55):
Yes, I thought was my firstguess. Yeah, because I and
so I Okay, continue, Iwant to know what she was giving them
to mimic these diseases, like whatshe was are these We're going to talk
about that a little bit later.And I that's and when I say we're
going to talk about it, Imean that's going to be a discussion on
our thoughts, not what they thinkit is, because I'm I literally think

(19:15):
that it's because this was in theeighties, they just did not know.
They don't They did not know howto classify this, and they didn't know
how what to do, so it'scompletely our opinions. Okay, So um
again, like I said, startedto raise an eyebrow. Doctors and social
workers and everything, and we're like, don't even worry about it. Like

(19:38):
I think she's just I think thatshe just has a lot of bad what
the perfect cover within perfect cover.Yeah, within nine weeks, all of
her children had died and she becamevery withdrawn, depressed, massive lady,
just saying, Um, they didtry, and they they did move on,

(20:00):
try to move on. So theymoved into another home. How you
move You can't move past that?How do you move past that? I
under I mean, I commend toanyone who does, like have that big
of a loss and moves on.It's just in the rent you wast you
lost, you lost four. ButI would consider like important people in your

(20:25):
life, your father, your children, And I understand like maybe her father
died and like her father was older. She was born in thirty six and
he died in what seventy eight,seventy one, so he was probably in
his seventies or eighties, Yeah,sixties at minimum, right, you know,
So it's don't and I'm not tryingto get someone's loss at that point.
But it's sad, but it's alsonot unusual. It's not like he

(20:52):
went out for milk and got hitby a car. Yeah you know what
I mean? Oh, no,for sure. Uh So with this move,
she became pregnant. He had ason named Timothy. Was did he
last? He was born on Thanksgivingon November. Her pregnant money first nineteen
seventy three, and within just threeweeks, with him being three weeks old,

(21:15):
he was found dead in his crip. Since nothing was wrong with him,
it was yes, fuck you fuckyou want to tell this story.
No, I'm just really invested because, like, trust me, I'm gonna
keep going and you're gonna lose yourshit. And that's why I picked this
one. I knew you. Yeah. In nineteen seventy four, Um oh,

(21:37):
I don't know why I did this, Okay. Um So in this
time period, her husband was admittedto the hospital for a near fatal dosage
of barbiturous Later, him and Marybethacknowledged that there was an incident that occurred
that weighed heavy on their marriage,and this led to her placing pills that

(22:00):
she took from a friend where herdaughter was an epileptic, and okay,
and then she put it in hisgrape juice and he was like a still
love her, I'm not present chargesshe only accidentally dosed me with barbituous Yeah,

(22:21):
you too completely acknowled. Okay,I know she tried to kill me,
but listen, we were going throughsome shit, oh I guess.
Yeah. So by August of nineteenseventy four, she was pregnant yet again
and gave noa. It gave birthto Nathan. He was born on Easter
Sunday, March thirtieth, nineteen seventyfive. And you already know what I'm

(22:47):
about to say, don't you.Okay? He lasted one month, Yes,
he was. He was rushed tothis time Saint Clair Hospital, where
she stated that she was driving withhim in the front seat of the car
and he just stopped breathing. Well, it wasn't that common word. Children,

(23:10):
I mean children unfortunately, like thefirst few months of life. Can't
say can't happens? Is that whatit would be? Sudden and infant deaths?
Right? So yes it could,yes, but when you look at
the umbrella of all her kids.But if you're going to look at the
whole thing. What I want toknow is, so you're putting your body

(23:30):
through so much trauma giving birth andcarrying a child just to kill the child
later. And I know that Munchausen'sby proxy. It's a whole thing,
and there's like this whole aspect thatyou have to get into it to understand.
But you're why do that? Um, I know, might not just
have Munchausens and do to yourself.You're doing so much. Well, here's

(23:52):
the thing. Everybody gathered around herand rallied around her, and the more
kids that died, the more tradquote unquote she experienced. So why aren't
her friends like, this is thefifth child that's fucking died, like at
one point, okay, three,Sometimes that happens, and that's just really
fucking sad. And I'm sorry,but by five, bitch better be raising

(24:15):
eyebrows being like, um, okay, this isn't not a coincidence because no,
no, no, And and doraise a good point. The doctors
did find nothing wrong with them,really rolled it as heart failure, but
the doctors no. But the doctorswere like, Okay, what the fuck's
going on? So what do theydo, which I don't think they could

(24:38):
have came up with a better solutionthan this. And I'm being definitely an
asshole here where they just said thismust be a new disease called the death
gene. You're joking. No,So they were basically saying, oh,
you must have this thing, there'ssomething genetic in your in yourself. We're

(25:00):
not going to do any just basicallylike, listen, maybe you shouldn't have
any more children. Obviously, thisis something that runs like your kids aren't
making it right. Okay, Idon't have a PhD. But doctor,
if that's the case, then howis she caring to full term? Would
be my question? And exactly andthat they didn't have any reasons why this
kid wasn't dying, So they're justbasically making up their own they're just coming

(25:22):
up with their own hypothesis on what'sgoing on. Also on the same thing
where they said, well, nothing'swrong, but it's heart failure. Well,
then that's what's wrong. It's theheart. There's not nothing wrong.
They couldn't deter failure. Yeah,but they couldn't deter any documenting anything.
Well, they couldn't find anything.They don't have a dart like part of
the body. Then his heart justmust have died, his heart stopped.

(25:45):
There should be test. No,that's stupid. Continue but it's in the
seventies and they don't have the things. And I get that and what they're
working with it's limited, but atone point someone should have been like,
this is fucking suspicious, like allthese kids are dying, and the infants
again, the infants. Unfortunately,I understand to a point why they may

(26:08):
pass those off because sids can happen. It does happen, unfortunately even today.
Well, I mean she did goto a different hospital in this one,
and that's sketchy because so you broughtthree dying children to one. Can't
gotta move on now, you gottamove on to the next one. Well,
because she did move, she didmove, so but okay, so,

(26:29):
but the friends and family are like, something stinks, thank you.
That would be mes are how healthythey're active? This is bullshit, especially
the two literally only two have gottento live long enough to develop as people,
right, you know, and Idon't know how old they were when
they passed, but three of themhave been infants. Two of them were

(26:49):
older, so at least the oldertwo should be precedent for like, yo,
what was wrong with those? Howthey survive? SIDS? Don't apply
here? How did they get totheir first year? Yeah? How they
get to their first sixth? God? Okay? Continue okay? So three
years pass? No kids? Good? Good? May be God damn it.

(27:14):
Decide she is going to adopt achild and his name is Michael and
um this was in August of nineteenseventy eight, where he was already a
foster kid. Um, and thiswas just a starting of the adoption process.
But guess what, she's pregnant again. Boom, so she has another
baby. These are some really fertile, fucking people I know, which is

(27:37):
really weird. How some people aresuper like so I've I've heard and I
don't know if this is true.Like you know, some people's chemical balance
just works better um for them.But again, like I said, she's
pregnant, um and she. MaryBeth Francis is born on October twenty ninth,

(27:59):
nineteen eight. Within two months Januaryof nineteen seventy nine, she is
rushed to the same hospital. MaryBeth claims that she is having seizures.
Doctors find nothing wrong. She senther home a month later, the baby
is taken back to that same hospitalagain, died within a short period of
time, and they ruled it asSIDS as well. So, oh,

(28:23):
by the way, she's pregnant againat this time. Oh my dear fuck.
Okay, one hail Mary too.What was the baby's name again?
I kind of blanked on that.Oh I'm sorry if I didn't say.
This one's Mary France. Mary France. No, you probably didn't. I
just didn't pay attention. This one'skind of confusing because Mary Beth France.

(28:45):
That's probably why I didn't catch it. What the fuck? Okay, go
ahead, Okay, so she's pregnantagain, Okay, can someone okay,
I am not for forced sterilization,however, okay, I lay listen.
I'm not for I'm not for forceanything. Correct. Yeah, but thank
you. Individual should be like like, she should be sterilized. This is

(29:12):
the one point. This is theonly time I would be okay with the
husband being like Nana or can Isterilize her? Good? Can we just
not do this anymore? Because she'skilling her children. That's the only reason
I'm okay with it. For therecord, right, go ahead? So
m On November nineteenth, eighteen seventynine, she does have a boy,
his name is Jonathan. Within threemonths, she goes back to the same

(29:37):
hospital and Jonathan is not conscious.Why can't you let your kids old?
They send her actually to a Bostonto Boston hospital, um, and they
can't find anything wrong with me either, because they're like, okay, well,
look you've been in here before.We know you, um your regular

(30:00):
room, Mary are ready for whatup? Mary? Do you want?
Do? We still got your cotin the back like so at this point,
so they're like, Okay, there'ssomething wrong. We need to send
them to a better hospital. Sothey send them to Boston hospital where they
can't find anything wrong with them either. Well, on March on March twenty

(30:21):
fourth, nineteen nineteen eighty, afterthree days after the initial of visit,
they go back and he dies ofheart failure. Now this whole time,
Michael is still alive, so theadoptive child is still alive. So they're
still kind of like on this wholekick of it's this death gene, you

(30:45):
know, like, oh, isthat what the people in Boston thought too?
They didn't know. They just couldn'tfind out. I don't know if
they were running the proper tasks,like it's a little kid. They're going
through all the tests. They're probablytesting the bloodwork. Everything looks and that
was gone my question the blood panel. Yeah, I'm not saying nothing.
They didn't. What do you know, I don't. They don't like I

(31:07):
tried to find, like honestly,for this being such a myth, like
a I would feel like a prettybig case. I got meth evidence.
Okay, Um, now let mesee here. Where are we? Okay,
now, Michael two and a halfyears old, the longest survivor of
kids. Okay, so we evenher her old, her first two they

(31:33):
died before two. Um, Iam. I didn't mean to put you
on the spot, but I justdon't know where their age is. No,
Um, Michael died. Oh maybeMichael or Joseph was too. But
at least they're toddlers when they're dying, so they're very young. Yeah he

(31:55):
was. He was about to umand said, you know what she gets
caught for. This is going tobe interesting. Okay, So back to
Michael. Michael is two and ahalf still an adoption process. On March
second, in nineteen eighty one,Michael was taken to his pediatric hospital or

(32:15):
a pediatric's office, and um,he died from acute pneumonia. But now
this wasn't deadly, but he stillpassed. Now this is where is a
bitch though. Yes, but itwasn't bad enough where it would have been
deadly. Okay, it was likea mild right Now, this is where

(32:36):
people were like, Okay, youtake your kids to the hospital for everything.
You waited seven children. You waitedto take Michael to the doctor when
it was too late. So theywere like, hmmm, this is weird.

(32:58):
Finally, this is when the doctor'slike, okay, well, all
these kids are dying, and Idon't think it's the deadly gene anymore.
I don't think it's because it doesn'texist. This isn't a trait um.
If if these kids are around thischeck like they're dying, they're they're dying.
Finally, finally they start paying attention. So now she got off because

(33:24):
that's that's in the state's hands atthis point. So there you you haven't
even adopted this child yet. Thatmeans there's still a word of the state.
They're still I think that I thinkshe was paying him slowly, and
I think that she let it gotoo far, and that's why she didn't
take them, because the state wasshe got ballsy, is what she did.

(33:44):
She got ballsy? Yeah, andso um and when she feels this,
so she feels this, she's like, oh shit. They're question at
this point because you know, she'smoved and she's had fifty million other children
die. Cheers, guys, cheering, we're cheersing with you. Hi.
Um. When she moved to whatSaint Clair, Sat, Santa Clara,

(34:05):
whatever, is she still working ata hospital. She's still a nurse now,
she's just pumping out kids. Imean true, she's like permanently on
maternity League. Go ahead, she'sjust her name is Marybeth Maternity and um,
so the social workers, the doctorsare all like all right, cops
like okay for for for for seriousthis time. So but question. It's

(34:30):
interesting. It's weird that the otherones where there was like nothing wrong,
but we're gonna say it's their heart, nothing wrong, but it says and
fine, but this is pneumonia.So how can you cause someone to have
pneumonia? Is it the fact thatshe brought him into late And that's where
I investigating. Right, Well,they're not either they're not even investigating,
like Michael doesn't even stand a chance, Like we're not even to talk about

(34:52):
Michael anymore. After this, Iwas like, okay, like Michael is
where they're like, oh shit,I think that she's just killing these fucking
kids. Um okay, it onlytook seven audience seven children. This is
eight eight children. I was close. Um, so people are buzzing around
her, and she's like, wegotta fucking go. Bro and Joe and

(35:15):
her like all right, that's Joestill with her through Bro, how do
you think she's getting rid of it? Okay, well, no, I
get that balls cut off. Ifwe need to castrate anybody's that fool,
it's both of them. I wouldsay more her. If she's the one
doing it, like killing these children, that fool is a write or die.

(35:37):
I'm not even gonna lie like Joeis. Did they did they get
special vitamins? No? No?She really just okay. Well, Mary
Beth being Mary Beth and the creatureof habit that she is, she gets
knocked up yet again, and shegives birth to Tammy Lynn on August twenty

(36:00):
second, nineteen eighty five, butthis time they're watching her like a hawk.
They are wonder every test on tammyLynn. They're running every single like
detail. I mean, if thislittle girl coughs, they're testing everything.

(36:22):
No health problems, completely healthy,She's perfect. On December twentieth, nineteen
eighty five, tammy Lynn dies causeof death once again as SIDS. Now
this one, everybody jumped in oneverybody. The neighbors called the cops,
the doctors called the cops. Everybodywas like, okay, listen. Usually

(36:49):
she is kind of a depressed typeof person. Whatever, this girl is
the most sociable they've ever seen herat any of the funerals. She is
hosting this like she is. It'slike a party, Yes, exactly,
she is hosting a party. Finally, Chief Police Richard E. Nelson contacted
Michael Brown, doctor Michael Brown,um, and he asked him about SIDS,

(37:15):
and he questioned him if nine kidscan die from from something in the
family, and he's like, notfrom SIDS, and this also from an
adoptive kid, and that point,yeah, it's it's not it's not possible.
It's not possible. Also, whena kid dies from SIDS, they

(37:38):
won't be blue, they won't stopbreathe, they stop breathing. Just their
body shuts down like just it's likeheart feeling. The heart just goes stop.
That's it. Well yeah, andlike the body or the organs just

(37:58):
shut down, you know, it'sstops. There's no So my question would
be because I've I mean, Idon't know so, but if someone dies,
wouldn't their body just turn there?I mean, I'm assuming the body
through the decomm process is going tochange, maybe like a gray, but
I guess not a blue. Okay, that's okay, I'm guessing. I

(38:21):
mean, blood is settling, soyou turn like a gray. But yeah,
they wouldn't have it like a shadeof blue, which and I've always
heard blue as if someone has lackof oxygen. So something's happening, right.
So with tammy Lynn, they suspectedof smothering and that would Yeah,
they didn't see particular hemorrhaging and theeyes or anything with the other ones,

(38:44):
um not, it was a itwas what a soft smothering, So I
don't know if it was that's whatthey referred to. And again I don't
know, like I didn't find alot of things like this is just the
phrases that I've just seen all ofthem. You, Um, I mean
maybe, but I have no idea. Usually with smothering or any kind of

(39:05):
strangulation, there is particular hemorrhaging aroundthe wise. Yeah, there is blood
vessels. Yeah, I don't getit. Yeah, so help me understand.
So yeah, they said, normally, if the baby's blue, this
is homicidal ephysiphysia, as asphyxiationation asphyxiation. On February fourth, nineteen eighty six,

(39:28):
she was brought to the station tobe questioned, where she had denied
all their deaths, but then afterhours, she confessed of killing three of
her kids. So this bitch isup in hospital smothering her children, she
said, and this is a quotefrom her. I did not do anything
to Jennifer, Joseph, Barbara,Michael, Mary Francis. She said,

(39:52):
the just these three, Timothy,Nathan, and Tammy. I smothered them
each with a pillow because I amnot a good mother. I'm not a
good mother. I'm not a goodmother because of other children. Hey,
guess what condoms. That's it.You're not a good mother because you killed
your because the other kids died.Now, Jennifer Joe, Okay, Jennifer

(40:16):
is like a pass because Jennifer died. But they did say, okay,
what I was going to go backto when they did an examination and I
only found this once, but Ijust thought it was like weird that it
was like, um, like shetried to do her own abortion and something

(40:37):
happened where she she messed something upwhile she was pregnant and that's what made
the abscessed happen in utero. Andsee, that was going to be my
question because you know, unfortunately,there's so many variables when a woman is
pregnant that any range of things canhappen, but an abscess is very strange.

(40:58):
So that was weird to me.Yeah, I didn't think about bullshit,
Holy fu. Yeah exactly, that'sthat's that is the exact phrase that
they Yeah, they would look likethey said. They call it a poster,
her hanger box. That's what shedid, right. Um. Now,
her husband, her husband came downto the station and he convinced her

(41:19):
to tell the truth, and um, she admitted the same thing as what
she meant to the police. Tohim, she said the exact same thing.
She had a thirty six statement,Paige statement on what happened with the
kids. Um, and she shedid stayed in there that Tammy Lynn would
not stop crying, so she didwhatever she did. She was obviously arrested,

(41:42):
charged with second degree murder of Tammysecond degree second degree. That's it.
Well, she was charged. Shit. I know, I know,
I mean tech in the words ofthe law, it is correct, but
that's bullshit. After you've killed allyour children, now you know, you
know, they didn't have enough evidenceto charge her for the other remaining children,

(42:04):
just because they didn't have anything.Like even if she was like,
yeah I did it, but justnow you got to prove it. There's
very and at that point, they'reonly going to charge her with what she
can despite her confessions, right exactexactly. Now. I think at this
point she realized, oh shit,I'm I'm gonna be in prison for the

(42:25):
rest of my fucking life, Likethis is oh damn right, Well she's
still in New York, right.Has she moved? Yeah? No,
I believe, Yeah, she's stillshe's I mean, you're not getting a
death penalty. Yeah, but Imean, you know, she's probably like,
oh my god, I don't wantto go to Hey, guess what
you should kept getting pregnant and killedyour children, condoms, birth control,

(42:49):
adoption, no, no, no, no, no no no no,
as I'm as I'm with you.Oh my goodness. She uh, she
tried to retract what she said said, sorry, quad, She tried to
retract what she said that she wassaying that the police were forcing her to
say this, but it didn't work. They were like, yeah, new,

(43:14):
they denied it. Now with thetrial she was it started on June
twenty second, nineteen eighty seven.They had doctors argued this new quote unquote
disease new syndrome versus suffocation. Aftertwenty nine hours, she was found guilty
of second degree murder of Tammy Lynn. She still claims that she did not

(43:38):
kill her other kids. She wassentenced twenty years to life at Bedford Hill
Prison for Women in New York.That's what to answer your question. Yes,
it's in New York. Now shehas gone up for parole in March
of two thousand and seven. Herfirst hearing, even an investigator, William

(43:58):
Barnes, spoke on her bed half. He was the one that actually was
the lead investigator for her confession andhe was there on her behalf. She
says, I have to be honest. The only thing that I can tell
you is that I know I murderedmy daughter, or I know that my
daughter is dead. I lived withthat every single day. I have no

(44:19):
recollection and I cannot believe that Iharmed her. I could not say anything
more than that, and they werelike, yeah, no, you have
no remorse for what you did.You are not even acknowledging what the fuck
you've done. Now, I wonderif, okay, you're about to be
done. I'll go into my threelater. Never mind, go ahead.
March of two thousand and nine.This is number two. She said that

(44:40):
she is more remorseful now, andof hey, listen, I wasn't that
remorseful, and she was going,yeah, and she was just really going
through some bad times, and theywere like, m yeah, no.
January two thousand and eleven. Thisone she emits that she killed Tammy with
a pello, but but kept allthe other ones were not from her.

(45:06):
She said, when I look back, I was very damaged and I was
a messed up person. Sometimes Iwill not try to look in the mirror.
When I do, I just there'sno words that I can express now.
I feel none. I just I'mjust just none again, They were
like, nope, you were showingno remorse. Absolutely not. She was

(45:30):
denied again February of two thousand andfifteen. Once again she was denied,
but in this one they did sayshe'd come back in eighteen months instead of
twenty four months. Still they wereon the same thing. She is displaying
no type of remorse. On Augusttwenty first, two and eighteen, she

(45:52):
served thirty one years of murdering herdaughter and she was granted parole. Holy
sh wait, so her initials wastwenty to life. Okay, that makes
sense. Go ahead, Um,her and her husband are still together.
If fuck you, he's still withher. He stayed by her side the
whole time. He stuck with herthrough everything. Um, she is on

(46:15):
constant watch, has a curfew andshe must attend domestic She cannot have children
ever again ever again. Um.So yeah, she's pregnant. Michael,
right now, Michael, I thinkbaden. He was the one who said
that she um has munch unsen Perry. I can't talk um, but yeah,

(46:45):
so that is the case of MarybethTinning. Now I have thoughts,
but we should pass for a breakand then come back, and we're gonna
go over them. Okay, welcomeback. So now this case, so
we're gonna share our thoughts on becauseso nothing was reported on in terms of
how she was maybe committing these othermurders, because there were murders like these,

(47:08):
not all of these were sids inmy opinion, Um, what do
you think? I want to knowwhat you think because you spent the most
time with the notes on the research. What do you think with like the
first few so I see you,I mean the first eight right right now?
So okay, my thoughts on this. Her father passed and that was

(47:32):
the trigger, right, thank you? That's what I was thinking. Her
father passed was the trigger, becauseum I okay, So here I go
two ways with this, Okay,I go, okay, let's do say
father, horrible person used to beather whatever. A lot of times when
it's father, daughter or family related, like they idolize that person. Do

(47:55):
you know what we'll think of ourlast episode where yeah, their abuser kind
of does no wrong, you know, like they kind of take up look
at abuser and DOOLM syndrome. There'sall these things where you you sympathize with
your abuser in general, but you'retaking it to a new level now where
it's you, it's your relative,it's your parent, no like no less,

(48:15):
it's your dad, your mom,you know. So that's a whole
different thing, where like Carol Bundyfor years was like I had the best
child ever. My parents were great, and her sisters like a what like
bitch they fucking severely. He rapedyou since age eleven and mom was just
on her own planet and didn't knowyou exist and didn't like you. So

(48:37):
what do you mean? And thenlike when her dad died, she took
a personal so that that there's thatwhole thing if he was because there's a
lot of cloudiness around her maybe whathappened in her childhood. I could see
that maybe being a possibility. Yeah, so I do. I do think

(48:57):
that, um for the first one, this one, her dad died,
then her daughter died, and shegot a lot of sympathy. Well,
but the first daughter that died isthe one with the abscess, who she
probably tried to abort, So actuallyI have no sympathy for her. So

(49:21):
I mean, again, that's onlya theory. We only that's a theory,
nod all the way. And thatwas child number three. Yeah,
and I know and then they shewent back and killed the other two.
Yeah, so like I feel likeDad's the trigger. But she liked the
attention because there was a lot ofthings with her having Munchausen, like a

(49:44):
lot. They had a ton ofit seems like, and especially how frequently
she went to the hospital. Hadshe not gone to the hospital so much,
it would be suspicious, but itwouldn't be Munchausen's by proxy to me
right personally right now, I thinkthat after her, after the third one,

(50:05):
the third one dying, so,um, Barbara. When Barbara died,
I know, I thought Jennifer wasthe third was okay, Barbara was
the first daughter. I thought Barbarais one of the first three to die.
But I thought Barbara was her firstdaughter. Um, Jennifer was the
one that died um in the hospital, yes, with the abscess, right,

(50:28):
Barbara was, yes, the one. I think after Barbara, she
saw how easy it was. Wellshe yeah, she had done three at
this point, so she's like,why fucking not, let's do it.
And I think after that she waslike, oh my god, I really
like having all I like having allthis attention. I like, I like
what's going on? And then humand then I think she just every time

(50:54):
she got pregnant, she was likea I don't think she wanted to have
like or maybe she knew after what'sher name, she didn't know how to
perform abortions and she was like,oh shit, I'll just have them and
then kill them, right, yeah, because she obviously didn't abort it,
but what I want to Yeah,Oh my god, that's just hoot um

(51:15):
fucking horrible. Like I get,if you don't want to have a kid,
have an abortion, that's your choice, but just doing it yourself is
just very cringey. And I it'sright. I can't. I can't like.
And in her case, I'm surethere are people, unfortunately maybe who
do this because they don't feel likethey have a choice and they're under I

(51:36):
don't know, that's a whole differentissue, but in this case, like,
that's just I can't. You wantto know something funny, Carol Bundy
was born two weeks before this chick. Oh my god, Oh yes,
you did tell me that in snapchat. I'm telling you, guys, the
way our cases lineup are very interesting, and it's not on purpose. Yeah,
I said that. If she wasI think I referred her birthday the

(52:00):
like four days before she was born, but Carol Bundy was two weeks I
got. I got a couple ofthe dates mixed up. But yeah,
I was like, oh my gosh, that's so that's so weird. Um.
But yeah, um, so Ifeel like because they didn't do blood
panels. But even if they didand nothing looks suspicious, I have a

(52:21):
feeling homegirl really relied on like asspirintand tailan al and these normal medications.
So it's funny you do bring thatup and you say that because one thing
of rays syndrome. I think I'msaying that right, or it's Reees syndrome.
How do you spe r e ye r e r e y e.

(52:43):
Yeah, maybe I would say sothat is, um, they could.
What can happen is if when youhave a baby, um, they
will tell you not to give themany a seat, a metapin or any
aspirant or anything bingo because it cancause this. It can cause that syndrome.
So it's not something they're born with, but they can develop yes,

(53:07):
after I'm assuming prolonged exposure to notprolonged just enough, okay, right where
they're still a dosage. I didlook it up. Yeah, but yeah,
that's why when they when you havebabies, they tell you not to
give them certain things because that's whenthey have like and And that's where I
was going, because they you know, they didn't find anything abnormal. But

(53:30):
and I don't know when like kidsmo tren or like kids tail and all.
We're a thing because this is soearly on, like the seventies and
eighties. So that's where I'm goingbecause who knows. I'm assuming that could
affect kids differently. Yeah, they'reso little, and if if she gave
them like a whole bottle of ifshe gave them even just a full tablet,

(53:51):
that's enough to let them stop breathingto allow brain swelling aka this race
syndrome, because the moment that you'reyou stop breathing and auction stops going to
your brain, either one you werestrangled, smothered like hit on the head,
you know, when you unfortunately ababy falls and it like loses breathing,
stops breathing. Like Yeah, that'swhere I'm going with the first few.

(54:14):
Personally, I think she gave themsome over the counter or maybe she
had something on her and she becauseshe's a nurse, so she knows what's
gonna be taken in a blood panel. I'm sure she knows what's in a
blood panel, so she knows what'sto give to then be like under to
keep being under the radar for aslong as she was, and then she's
like, yeah, smothered im.And it would also explain why none of

(54:37):
them had particular hemorrhaging because she's givingthem. She's not smothering them. She's
giving them drugs. Yeah, andthey're just which is also very common for
munch Husbins by proxy. Yeah,in my opinion or from what I've seen,
yeah, very very much. Sothat she could have she could have
found just like okay, it seemslike recipe for for them, you know.

(55:00):
Um. The fact that it tookso long, and that's what pisses
me off is that she had babyby baby and I get, like hester
care system isn't great, but like, come on, well, I mean
back then it was probably non existent, true and who yeah, and I'm
going off now I have no ideawhat it was back then. Yeah.

(55:22):
But what's interesting because to me itseems like a mix of Munchausen's by proxy
but also depression maybe even um postpartumdepression. To me having that many kids
and then going through that, Um, yeah, I mean the chemical imbalance
is insane. Well she's she's chemicallyimbalanced for at least eight years. Well

(55:49):
yeah, because she keeps having kidafter kid after kids, So her hormones
are like always pregnant women hormones that. Yeah, and then and I wish,
like there's so much trust in herbody in your mind. Oh my
god, you guys are like,unless you have a baby, you have
no idea what it's like to whenyou're at the after you have a baby.

(56:10):
The hormones that you have and thethings that you can go through is
freaking crazy. Well, look atand this whole thing was making me think
of Andrea Yates and that whole caseis completely different than this in certain aspects.
And I would highly recommend anyone who'sinterested to listen to Red Handed.
They did an episode on her,and it gave me a completely different perspective

(56:34):
on that case. But you know, like postpartum, it can come in
so many different ways from what I'veseen, and unfortunately, if it's coupled
with something else, then something likethis may happen, you know, So
if she already has. I mean, honestly, this could be like the
most severe thing of postpartum, becausethis is not uncommon. It's actually not

(56:57):
uncommon. But no women women aboutit because they're so scary. Yeah,
because it's scary. Well, there'salso the Mormons that like, there's a
lot of women that have hurt theirbabies, maybe not killed them, but
they have hurt them because they've hadthose thoughts or whatever. Yeah, this
one um, and you know shewas released only two years ago. She's

(57:20):
so she's uh, if she's stillalive, she's out and about. She's
living, breathing right now, takea deep breath in sharing that breath.
I hate you so much as youare. She could listen to this right
now. I just hear. Ihope you do, because no, like

(57:45):
I'm sorry, SIDS death can happen, and I get it. In the
scheme of things, I can empathizewith it. I should say, but
seven seven sids deaths eights? Noseven? Well, I mean, if
we're gonna get technic, they ruledthree of them as sids. They ruled

(58:07):
about three sids. The other onewas like a heart failure. Nothing's wrong,
But we'll say it's the heart heartfailure, heart attack works for fuck
you dot fuck you nob yeah,oh, my dear god. Okay,
I guess I know, I guessI know. Wow. Yeah. So
there's a Mary Beth for you andinteresting. Yeah. So oh wait,

(58:31):
I do want to ask you onthis? Okay, okay, So do
you think, in all reality,if this was something that was done right
now, how far do you thinkshe would have got past? Oh,
like this day and age? Unfortunately? I would say four or five?

(58:52):
Really, I would go three.I could say three. I thought about
that. I was like, Ifeel child Services would step in sooner,
like like at three, child Serviceswould be like, no, no,
no. But if you list like, there is still so much, so
many issues within the medical community andhow they communicate and everything, and I

(59:14):
get that she wasn't a doctor onduty committing acts like against patience and everything,
and so maybe it's different and I'mbasing enough of something that may not
apply or work the same way.But I would still say probably a little
bit. I don't think people wouldbe like, oh, it's the death
gene. But that one was sofunny. I feel like, fuck you
do I maybe? And I wouldI would say three or five kids personally,

(59:39):
because I feel like you could stilltest for like levels of a seat,
amount of fin and all this stuffearly on, and then maybe you
can see like you gave your kidway too much of this, And I
don't think this. I think thatI don't think it would go past like
three, just because we have suchextensive now insurances. They want to fucking
test you for everything under the sonwhen you come in the hospital, like

(01:00:01):
they're damn near testing you know shitthat doesn't need to almost be just so
they can build insurance companies and maybethe one my bills reflect that maybe the
one benefit of how insurance is thatan insurance. So that's why I think
they would have it on the lowerside, because I think that they would
test like every They have so manytests. Now we're back back a long

(01:00:25):
time ago. They weren't testing forarsenics like we were talking about last two
weeks ago. Oh yeah, yeah, I think it was two weeks ago.
Yeah, So like you know,now they kind of are just throwing
it in there to test for anythingand everything. I don't, I don't
know. I'm conflicted because then you'reexpecting the state to get involved because in

(01:00:46):
its children and then you have totake their children away. And there's been
so many cases since then where childServices is fucked up, Like child Services
is really weird because I've seen themlike, I've seen them do good where
they went after the right people,and then I've seen them like I don't
know. Luckily, there is norecord of her having any more children.

(01:01:07):
God bless. That's all we canthat's all we can say. I mean,
she can't have any more children now. I mean, if she did,
there'd be a miracle, seeing isshe's like seventy eight. Anyways,
Okay, we're gonna take a breakand then I'm definitely gonna bring the mood
down with my case. So umoh, because my boodood. It's just

(01:01:30):
not gonna get any brighter from here, truthfully, Okay, welcome back.
So I will admit I had ahard time trying to figure out what to
cover um for my case. AndI know you know this because I texted
you a lot like I don't knowwhat the fuck I'm gonna I'm so interested
and what you did, because umit was a badass here. I turned

(01:01:53):
double digits. I was fucking livinglife. You were born, I was
born I mean some of the greatestTV shows were ever on on TV.
I was four months old when mycase happened. Oh you know what for
my case, I was only likelike eighteen days old. Pep, that's

(01:02:19):
awesome. Um, okay, soill had I still had my unbilical cord.
The rest hasn't fallen off. Wow. So I picked this case because
it was in the news recently forcertain reasons. But it's also unsolved spoiler
alert, So that's also another reasonI wanted to cover it. Um,
So we're gonna gonna go into it. So this is the case of Nicole

(01:02:39):
Smith. On the morning of Juneseventh, nineteen eighty five, Nicole Smith,
who was only fourteen, she waswalking to school with her and her
It was her, her friend andher sister. So there's three of them
and they're walking to the bus stopfrom their apartment complex and this was the
Deerfield Departments in South us Atlanta.And at some point during the walk,

(01:03:04):
Nicole realizes, like freaking A,I forgot my homework. I forgot this
project I have to do. SoI'm gonna I need to go back and
I'll just meet you guys here.I don't know when the bus was supposed
to come. I don't know likehow much time she had, but she
was basically like, you guys,go ahead, I'm gonna go back to
the apartments, go back home,and I'm gonna go get my assignment.

(01:03:25):
And she takes this shortcut through thewiz obviously because she's pressed for time.
She's trying to get back to thebus and get everything done. And it
was on okay, so it's childdress drive. I don't really know how
you say that, but okay something. And this route that she ended up
taking was a very common route forother children. So it's not like either

(01:03:50):
way like it was just she tookit. It was normal for her to
use. I'm around her way back. She ends up being attacked by a
man who rapes her and then shother. Oh my god. She unfortunately
does die of her injuries, andher body was found by two security guards
of her apartment complex at nine twentyin the morning. Witnesses at the appartment

(01:04:11):
complex later said that they could heartwo gunshots go off, and some may
have even seen her body. Ireally don't know how close she was when
she was attacked to when she wasshot, you know, comparatively to the
bus stop in the apartment complex.I don't can't really prove that, but
the sound of the two gunshots iswhat drew the attention of the two security

(01:04:35):
guards at the appartment complex. What'seven more sad is that her mother,
Aquanila Smith, heard the shots aswell because she was home. So she
hears the two gunshots. Then there'sa helicopter and then she gets a knock
on her door and police are like, hey, we're sorry, but your
daughter died. Your daughter was murdered. And what's weird, Like, I

(01:04:57):
don't know what id the nicole hadin her I don't know. Usually you
would, you know, can youidentify the body kind of thing, Like,
you know, there's nothing. It'sinteresting. And at the time of
her murder, she was only afew days away from graduating eighth grade at
Ralph Bunge Middle School. She like, she was she's a child, she's
so young. Yeah, and she'sonly fourteen years old and she's attacked on

(01:05:23):
her way to get her like bookreport. I'm pretty sure it was a
book report and she left at home. Yeah, she left it at home.
She was like, hey, Igotta go back, and then she's
attacked by this man. Now,the area itself, what's interesting is that
it was a high trafficked area,so basically like it was a wooded area,
but it was still pretty populated towhere people could have seen this person,

(01:05:44):
this attack happening. They could haveseen the killer, they could have
seen everything. And they think,according to police, that he was an
opportunity rapist and it's he is morethan likely familiar with the area to know
like when to strike, when toleave way. Can people see all these
little things that may have gone intoit and police, So at the time

(01:06:05):
of Nichole's murder, police do endup checking with the local high school to
see who was absent that day.They did have a lead based off of
that because this other like student hada record of some sort of abuse or
maybe some sort of sexual misconduct abuse, not really sure, but it doesn't
pan out. So unfortunately case doesgo cold, and like at that point,

(01:06:33):
that's kind of it at ninety five, So they do this investigation and
try to track this kid. DNAis still a new thing. Remember oj
is just now going to trial,which is the first major case where DNA
is used. Right, So DNAis not a thing, yet it's still
in its infancy in ninety five asthe strangest that sounds, and that's you

(01:06:56):
know, that's kind of it.Later, So there was this article I
read where it seems like there's likethis, you know, Crimescene investigator who
is teaming up with a investigative reporterto share different stories that aren't getting like
the proper spotlight or just sharing voices, that kind of thing. So Crimescene
investigator Cheryl mcmccullum did retrace the stepsthat happened the day of the murder,

(01:07:18):
so we know that this perpetrator didnot use a car. He was on
foot the whole time. He wasprepared to murder because he has a gun
with him, like he's he's ready, he knows what's going to happen,
and the gun was loaded on topof that, so there's a lot that
went into that too. No,he was prepared to do something that day,
at least that's my assumption based upwhat was in this report. It

(01:07:42):
just sounds like a strapped I meanmaybe, and that could be another thing
too, but it's also he hadintent like either way, like you you
intended to rape her minimum and that'sstill terrible. And then now you decided
to shoot her twice in the faceand she's fourteen. Yeah, I really
am. Yeah, I mean Ithink he's just Yeah. I would put

(01:08:05):
that down as a really shitty personwho doesn't give a fuck about human life
and yeah, yeah, and probablydidn't have an intention to go out that
day to do this, but ithad no problem doing it. At the
same time, maybe maybe Cheryl believesthat he shot Nicole when she started fighting

(01:08:26):
back and yeah, which is soterrible, Like she's trying to trying to
fight for her life and he's like, God damn it. Yeah, and
like, how dare you? Howdare you fight for your life? Excuse
me? Well, that's so Myissue with it was either the it was
either falling for a killer or itwas the Confession Killer where they have they

(01:08:47):
panned to this little docu series thatthey do of rapists in prison. They're
like, yeah, the girl Iraped fought back and now she's dead.
What does that tell you? AndI'm like, fun, I think it
was falling for a killer because thatwhole thing was at this you know,
that was like seventies, right,so the women were told don't fight back,

(01:09:08):
because then they're going to kill you. Like, what else do you
expect us to do? What elsedo you expect women to do? Like
even Carol danch Okay, if you'regoing to get raped, you automatically assume
you're dying. You're going to die. Every woman, yes, every any
person who has been raped. Letme take that back. Any person,
like that's your because it happens sofrequently, right, it's so common because

(01:09:30):
you can identify them all these things, especially now, like there's so much
more now that we can do.Of course you're going to fight back.
If you didn't fight back, it'snot it's not it's not Hey, how
about we tell the rapists not torape anyone? It's how about you don't
fight back? High society fuck yourself, Like that's bullshit to me, like

(01:09:53):
to save yourself that you're just notgoing to fight back, And then and
then on top of that, youdon't even try to take care of the
vibers of these attacks. Were justlike we don't want to hear about it.
We're going to call it sexual assault. We don't want to hear rape,
We don't want to hear your story. We don't nothing. I hate
go in your black corner, you'redark little corner and just try to survive
with no sunlight, notices, nothinglike, are you kidding me? Really?

(01:10:16):
This is just whatever? I can'tso what really? What's really tragic?
So Nicole is murdered and her killeris never caught, and he does
strike again in two thousand and four, eleven years later, right eleven nine

(01:10:36):
years later, nine nine years later, and he attacks a thirteen year old
girl un connolly drive. We're stillin Atlanta, and he pulls her into
the woods, he rapes her.This little girl, however, is able
to escape and she's able to providepolice with a description of her attack.

(01:11:00):
So he was just out and aboutfor all that time. Yes, he's
still out. He's never been caught. To this day, he's never been
caught, which is also what's scaryis that he's been out. And these
are the two attacks, and youknow, two attacks, one murder that
we know that he committed. Sowho knows what else he's done as maybe
he's quote unquote got smarter with liketechnology or you know, who knows what

(01:11:26):
else he did or also what womenare reporting this, you know, if
he's raping because a serial rapist likethis, in my opinion, is not
going to stop, and his advantageis women not coming forward for obvious reasons.
Yeah, you know. So what'salso interesting is that this did take
place just like three miles from Nicole'smurder, So in terms of like,

(01:11:50):
you know, geographical profiling, it'svery likely that this could be the same
attacker, but they don't know thatuntil DNA is taken. So thankfully,
people in Nicole's case did take DNA. We had that in this system.
And then they take the DNA kit, the rape kit from this fourteen year

(01:12:11):
old girl, and there's a matchand they're like fuck, okay, so
they know it's the same person.That he's still out there. He's also
still in the area too. Foryears. Nicole's mother, like, she's
investigated on her own. She knewthe description early on of the you know,
once the thirteen year old girl unfortunatelywas attacked, she knew the description

(01:12:32):
at that time, and so shewent out to you know, clubs and
other places looking for this man whohad killed her daughter. And she's held
barbecues and car washes to raise rewardmoney for anyone to come forward to lead
to the arrest of this man,and so the description at the time as

(01:12:54):
of two thousand and four was thatof a black man and he was in
his late twenties, maybe early thirdhe's at that time, he was about
five foot ten and he was aboutone hundred and ninety pounds. He had
a gap in his front teeth,and he was wearing frame gold glasses and
they were around. And the reasonthat this is in the news again was

(01:13:14):
because in twenty nineteen there was anupdated photo of what he would look like
now in terms of twenty nineteen.So then this got a lot more attention
when this whole progression was released.Very cool of you to pull this into
relevance to today. You're welcome.Hi, I's going for year, so
at this point he could be inhis like forties or fifties. Need You're

(01:13:39):
welcome. And of course you knowso Nicole Nicole's mother um Aquanila Aquanila and
I'm so sorry I'm probably pronouncing that'sincredibly wrong. Cool name though, Oh
yeah, for real, I loveit. She's been told by police that
they're using familial DNA testing to findthis motherfucker. What is this? Let

(01:14:05):
me tell you, it's what caughtGolden State killer. Oh yeahenty three and
me. Yeah, familial DNA.So those kind of ancestral databases um and
again only like some only like there'sone, there's like something starts with a
J Jack something, I don't know. There's a very few like twenty three

(01:14:25):
and mean, Ancestry really don't cooperatewith police from what I've seen, which
is very frustrating obviously because the answersare all there. Yeah, but that's
personal. And again there's a wholelike of privacy and data and law.
But whatever that is that their versionof a hippologue. Yeah, there's a
lot of red tape that they'd haveto cross, but there is another one
that they can, mean, theycould subpoena it. They just get the

(01:14:47):
proper judge. If a proper judgewould like look into it and maybe listen,
it's just too broad. It woulddo it. If the judge wouldn't
do it for Golden State. Well, that's what I mean, that's what
they would have to do. That'snot what they There's another database police can
use. So there's like there's Ancestryand twenty three of me, which obviously
the big dogs, but there's anotherone and I can't remember what it's called.

(01:15:10):
Twenty three and me and answerstry dotcom are going to rule the world
soon because I don't even think aboutdoing that shit. Listen, if it's
going to help me be like becomeimmortal later in life, I'll do it
too. Like there's all these theoriesabout how it's gonna hurtle. I do
like immortal. M Listen. Iread a lot of vampire stuff as a
kid, like it's kind of inmy like this. No, I'm here

(01:15:30):
to just do. I'm here tofunction it up and then leave like that.
I'm not here for a long time, but I'm here for a good
time. That's all I'm here for. I'm here to function up and go.
That's it. Like, I'm nottrying to stay here longer than I
need to. But if also,if you've read it up, somebody was
like, do you want to livefor? Like what if you could live
forever like a vampire? Yeah,A fuck that sign me up. Well,

(01:15:55):
no, I would get me outof here, y'all. Y'all people
are nuts. Oh I would doit. I would so do it.
No. But yeah, if you'veread Billy Jensen's book Chasing darkness. I
think he does mention that. Butif you also listen to cases about mostly
involving the Golden State killer, you'regoing to hear what this database is called.
And I can't remember. It's somethingwith a J, but they're using

(01:16:17):
familiar DNA. Obviously, it's goingto take a while because you have to
have geneologists go in and there's allthese different things to determine maternal paternal.
So I don't know when she wasforever. I don't know, oh for
sure, And I don't know whenshe was told this. And you know,
we heard this was being happened.This was being done with Zodiac like
two years ago, and we stillhave nothing on that, and not that

(01:16:41):
these are the same, but itdoes take a while, unfortunately, obviously,
you know, so having his DNAin this system, it's obviously in
this system from the rape kids,but he hasn't been charged with anything at
this point that we know. Forus, we would know who he is
because his DNA is in the system, and the moment he's fucked and booked,
bam, it would come up.So Vince Velasquez is the more recent

(01:17:06):
Atlanta homicide detective handling Nicole's case,and he believes that someone besides the murderer
does know what happened, and youknow the identity of the killer, because
more than likely this perpetrator did bragabout his crimes that he committed unvirtunately.
Again, like I said, hedoes think that he is still offending,

(01:17:28):
but quote got smarter, which iswhy right now you know, there's nothing
else linked to him. And thenthat's just one reason. One reason maybe
he got smarter. Again, thestigma of rape victims and you know,
women or anyone who was raped notcoming forward in that hole. There's so
much that is playing to this man'sadvantage unfortunately. So this last June marked

(01:17:48):
twenty five years since Nicole's murder,and her family and friends would have a
vigil and walked the routes that shetook that day, and they had twenty
five balloons and you know, I'massuming released them, and they had this
whole you know, they had thiswhole thing, and it's just really sad
that they still don't know her momstill doesn't know anything in either of these

(01:18:10):
families, like two families were impacted, and so if feels so sad,
like the that's one thing that scaresme the most when my kids leave my
house, is there's a possibility thatI don't know what's going to happen to
them. Yes, and as amother, that's that's gut wrenching. Yeah,
and to live with that every singleday. Uh yeah, so my

(01:18:33):
heart goes out to that mama.I'm sure you have information if anybody I
do. Yeah. So if youhave information on the case, or you
recognize the man, because I amgoing to post this um progress photo on
our Instagram when we post this episode, so you can take a look at
the photo called Lanta Police Crime Stoppersat four or four five seven seven eight

(01:18:56):
four seven seven if you do haveany information about this and bring some justice
because fuck this guy and we shouldhelp find this person. Agreed. Well,
that wraps up. I know it'sweird. This is such a short
episode that we haven't had this shortof an episode in such a well it's

(01:19:16):
it as of recording time without editsas an hour and a half, so
it probably is a little less forus. Um So in the meantime,
follow us on Instagram at Boozy Blondes. Pod our, Twitter is at Boozy
Blondes. You can email us atBoozy Blondes at gmail dot com with story
ideas, info, anything, Sayhi. Our Facebook page is Blonde Booze

(01:19:38):
Bullshape and we'll see you next week. Don't forget you, Black of Doors. You're gonna

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