53. Coma Down to Lovers Lane

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:11):
Hello, everybody, Welcome back toBoulon's Booze and Bullshite. I'm Courtney and
I'm Davin, and we welcome youback and we hope you had a wonderful
Halloween. Yes, yes, Iknow this is like it's yeah, we're
about two weeks about to be twoweeks out from Halloween. But it's the
first time we've recorded since that recordingthat we did for Halloween. I know.

(00:32):
October has not been kind to ustime wise. It's been really weird.
I'm gonna I'm gonna blame the retrograde. Yes we could. I'm gonna.
I'm just gonna do it. Ifeel like that's yeah, that's just
kind of kind of what it was. And it was my daughter's birthday,
right, Yeah, I know therewas a lot going on that weekend,
so yeah, so now she's allold. Now what an oldie old lady?

(00:55):
Um? And then uh yeah,so I I I spent the weekend
with her and doing her birthday thing, and so we missed a week and
then um, what was it theweek before? I don't think I was
feeling good. Yeah, I knowyou had been sick and you're like,
Okay, I'm better, but Ididn't do any research. Oh yeah,
that's what it was. I waslike, I don't know what was wrong.

(01:17):
Definitely, it definitely wasn't the disease. It definitely wasn't the plague that
hits that hit us. You nothingright reading it. Read a couple of
books. Read a great true crimebook. I read Last Call by Elon
Green. It comes out March twentytwenty one, so there is a wait
for it, but it's definitely worthpre ordering. But this is such a

(01:38):
great book. It's called Last Calland it's about the Last Call killer,
and it's probably like one of theonly cases that's deserving of like you,
like, it's it's crazy to thinklike that it's not a big case,
or that more people don't know aboutit, because I've never heard about it

(01:59):
until I read the book, whichis crazy just based on how brutal it
was, how this person was right, and just his backstory too. It's
just it's crazy. And like theauthor goes into why you probably didn't hear
about this. You know, itwas in like the eighties and nineties and
it was gay men and it waslike the head of AIDS epidemics. There

(02:20):
was just like a lot of thingsthat went into them, probably not getting
the recognition and not even recognition that'sthe wrong word, but the attention the
victims deserved. Like there wasn't alot of reporting on it or like big
gung hoo like solve it for alot of people. So it's really it's
a really great book. Oh,definitely recommend pre ordering it. Yeah,

(02:42):
that's that's literally all I've been doingis just reading and watching. Oh.
I started watching Evil actually finished onNetflix. Watch it. It's fucking amazing.
Well for everyone listening who has Netflix. I I think I started rewatching
the Simpsons. Does that count?I support that? Yeah? And I
was like, they gotta tell uswhat's going on. They're good, Okay,

(03:06):
there's a lot going on right now. Simpsons. What happened? Yeah?
I always hit the nail on thehead, so let's let's let's see.
It's funny because I've been I've beenactually doing that a lot, rewatching
like old old shows like when Iwas a kid and stuff. And I
was like, hmm interesting, ohyeah, same kind of shit, right,

(03:27):
different different times. Yeah, thesame topic, same ship, which
is so sad. You're like,do you think things would change by now?
In certain aspects depending on you know, what we're talking about. Of
course that changes, but broad strokeslike and it doesn't. It's like because
it's the same conversation. Yeah yeah, I think, yeah, there's no
action. It's just like well this, this and this, and then they

(03:50):
were just like okay, bye,We're like wait, but uh, I
know, I just I feel likeI should have had more like coming into
this, as in, like,you know, more more of what I
did. And they's passed like threeweeks and I literally cannot think of a
damn thing. So yeah, soI guess all you're going to get is
our case today, which is ait's a big one. So this is

(04:12):
probably good that our opening is alittle bit shorter today. This is probably
our shortest opening also considering how longwe haven't seen each other. Yeah,
so anyways, so I'm really excitedfor the case today. So we're all
familiar with you know, you've heardthe urban legend of there's two lovers.
They're in the car and they heara radio report of a killer with a

(04:35):
hook for a hand, and youknow, sometimes did they escape from a
mental hospital or whatever? Like there'sso many variations, but you know,
they're wanting kids to like, um, don't go out after this time,
blah blah blah. And then laterthis couple gets out and they see a
bloody hook on the back of theircar. And apparently that started with our

(04:56):
case. Our case inspired that urbanlegend. Oh is that where That's what
I've read? Yes, so people, yeah, hit this keep going,
keep going. So our case todayis the tech Sarcanic Moonlight murders. And
I don't know about you, butI didn't know that much about this case,

(05:17):
like I knew broad strokes kind ofwhat had happened, honestly, No,
Like, um, I when Iheard this, I've heard now.
I know that I've heard of thisbefore because I have gotten facts miss like
twisted between this and Zodiac. Yeah, so so I heard of it,
but not to the point of melike knowing which one it is or not,

(05:41):
like not knowing victims or anything likethat. Oh yeah, no,
I could have named a victim tosave my life at all. So the
murders took place on weekends between Februarytwenty second, nineteen forty six and May
third of nineteen forty six. Andobviously, I mean the text are cannon
Moonlight Murders or the Town that DreadedSundown. Those names, they're basically interchangeable.

(06:01):
Um. They've had a very prolificstatus to this day, and they've
been the subject of two movies ina video game, and the name's range
for the Casela or the killer specificallythe Phantom Killer and the Phantom Slayer.
I like the Phantom Killer. I'mnot even gonna lie. When I heard
that name, I was like,that name, I kind of like the
Phantom Slayer. That just sounds sothere was Um, I saw this like

(06:27):
version of their face or whatever totallyreminded me of one of the Jason's.
Yes, I know you're talking about. Yeah, because I play. Me
and my ma and my siblings havea standing video game day every week now
and we play Fright of the Thirteentha lot. And there's the well,
I mean he would play it andI would watch it and get scared.
Oh it's so fun. But yeah, there's the one Jason where he has

(06:50):
them cloth bag or whatever with thepick axe. Yeah. That one.
That one was the dumbest one waslike number two or three. That was
two had to rive into because that'swhen Jason honestly, that's like one of
the franchise is like I don't watchthe early ones. I want to.
I want to watch the first onejust because I want to see Missus works
and that whole twist and everything.But that game is though pretty fun.

(07:13):
Oh it's no, it's so muchfun. And there's like all this anxiety
when you play so much, somuch anxiety. What's funny because like I'll
switch because once you know, sothere's two of us, So once Jason
and then me and like my siblingare the survivors or you know, we
alternate between that and when you die, you can alternate between watching Jason and
them. And it's so funny tolisten to the survivor's screen because there's just

(07:34):
this orchestra that's like donut no,no, no, no no, like
just fucking insane music, and thenyou switch to Jason and it's just silent
and not all the time. Sometimesyeah, sometimes that well, when you
hear that, that's when you knowJason was like getting closer to your sense,
like you kind of knew he waslike coming up on you. And
that that game gave me there wasI used to the one or two times

(07:58):
that I would play it. Iwould do it like in a dark room,
and after I smoked a little andmy anxiety was through the freaking roof,
I was like, okay, no, no, thank you, no,
thank you, Jason, goodbye,sir, see you later. Bad
you a day? Did a yes, bad you ad yes? Um?

(08:20):
So okay. So the crimes takeplace. It's on the border of Texas
in Arkansas, Arkansas, Arkansas obviouslyKansas, Arkansas, which is obviously where
the name came from. Now it'sknown as a town that Dreaded Sundown because
the movie in nineteen seventy six bythe same name. It was, so
what I thought was crazy was thatthat movie was filmed in Texas, Arkana

(08:43):
and they used actual locals in themovie as a background. So I thought
that was pretty like locals were castin it. And apparently they even still
have a screening for it every yearin Halloween. And I would love to
go there. And that just remindsme of the Scream movies and number four
four where yes, I was like, that's the same thing, You're like,

(09:05):
I so support that. I waslike, no, I was like,
okay, so when can I goto text or can on Halloween to
watch that, like I need todo that. I mean, I feel
I feel like, yeah, oneyear used to do that, and then
the other one is the what theSalem Way? Yes, oh true,

(09:26):
hit it and then but I wantto be in Salem on Halloween, like
Halloween Knight at m like has tobe Halloween Knights, so it'd have to
be two different years. But that'sokay, it'll happen. I'm gonna make
it happen. Yeah, So themurders themselves. So the first attack,
it involved Jimmy Hollis, who istwenty five, and there's Mary Is Larry
Laurie Like that's so sad la re y Mary, Larry, Larry Laurie

(09:54):
Laurie. Oh, I can seemaybe seeing Laurie lay or something Marie anyway,
So she was nineteen and on Februarytwenty second, nineteen forty six,
they park on a secluded road atabout eleven forty five and the area was
known as a lover's Lane. Aboutten minutes later, a man who was
wearing what looks like to be awhite pillowcase over his head. This person

(10:18):
they do appear on this side ofJimmy's door and they shine a light in
his door in the window, andJimmy, of course, he has no
idea what's going on. He's like, Okay, maybe it could be a
prank. I don't know if it'sa coplic. I don't know what's going
on. So he tells the guythat he has the wrong person, like,
I don't know what's mmmm, Andthe man then says, quote,

(10:39):
I don't want to kill you,fellow, so do what I say.
When he said fellow, the fellow, it's very oddly, like Curtius for
someone you're about to fucking trying tomurder is in the forties, But that
is just so weird. That's justthat's just weird. And maybe that is
just the that's just the verbiage thatthey used on there. Yes, yeah,

(11:01):
I could be just what they he'sused to saying. So he orders
the couple out of the car andtells Jimmy to take off his pants for
some reason. So the killer thenyeah, like take off your bridges,
and you're like, he's like,it's like, what okay, Like Zodiac
didn't even Zodiac didn't what is thiswell, I mean this was the first

(11:24):
one, so I don't know why. Maybe maybe because he couldn't run,
maybe, but then just fucking shoothim. What's the point, Like,
are you trying to well, doyou want more time? This could be
the first person's first kill. Sooh no, it definitely is because they
both live. Yeah, like hedidn't know what was going on. Yeah,

(11:46):
this was so like I think thatwhen reading this over this case,
everything was so experimental, I feltlike it was just and it wasn't a
rhyme or reason. It was justlike just because type of sense. And
what's what's weird is that them andZodiac, Him and Zodiac are so similar,
very including how much they vary andhow a radic it can be.

(12:11):
Just each crime scene, each attackis different. And also it was like
lovers correct, Yes, that wasa big one. It was lovers mostly,
and then there's the one weird attackwhere people are like, I don't
know if this even goes together,right, um? But and the only
main difference obviously besides the time periods, is that this guy, as far

(12:31):
as we know, never contacted themedia as far as we're Yeah, so
once Jimmy has his pants off,Jimmy isn't hit hit in the head twice
by the man's pistol. Mary wouldlater say that the sound of him being
hit was so loud that she hadthought he had been shot already, and
she thought that the man um Shethought that he was there to rab them.

(12:54):
So she's like, here's Jimmy's wallet. There's no fucking money in here,
and in response, and hits heron the head. I got nothing
for you, yeah exactly. She'slike, you're wasting your time. I
don't. We don't have anything togive you, or else we would,
so this can just be over.And then so he just hits her in
the head. And after this,the man tells her to get up,
so she does, and then hetells her to run, so obviously she

(13:16):
does, and she runs towards aditch, but then the guy is like,
nope, go this way. Soshe's like running one way and he's
like nope, turned around, gothat way, and she runs up the
road. So I now, becauseI this sounds like a fucking scary movie
to me, it really no,but it does. He hits her on

(13:37):
the head and then he's like runand then he's like, no, bitch,
not that way. Like it seemslike a funny. It'd be like
a parody movie, yeah, becauseit gets even better. Yeah. And
so she's running and she comes acrossan old car that was parked off the
road. She goes up to itto try to get help, but it's
empty. And then all of asudden, the attacker is there and is

(13:58):
like, quote, why are yourunning? Like fuck you are you serious?
Yeah? And she was like Itold you too, and then he's
like you're a liar. Yeah.He's like yeah. She's like, you
literally just told me to and hecalls her a liar. He hits her,
she falls and he rapes her.Yeah, with the gun. Yeah,

(14:18):
that gave me chills after Oh yes, oh my god, that's why
I said it gave me. That'sthat's the that's the part when I was
okay, Yes, it's like like, I'm not kidding. Sometimes we do
these these cases and I'm like Ifeel like they have like they take oh

(14:39):
like a little bit of everybody hasdone something in the cereal, you know,
like this one is like Zodiac.And then we'll hear a little things
and it's like, oh my gosh, that is the exact same thing that
they did here, the exact samething that they did here, or those
similarities, which is so crazy.Yeah, well then you can you can
see how easy sometimes it is thenfor police officers or profilers to predict their

(15:01):
next move because look at like himand Zodiac basically the same thing, even
have I think the same killed countmaybe a couple off, but they're so
similar. And then look, ofcourse, like we always talk on end
about sexually motivated killers, their storyis basically the same, and it's just
it's crazy to read about. Butso after Mary's rape, she runs a

(15:22):
half mile to a house and she'sable to wake up the residence and they
help her call the police. Throughoutthis whole time, Jimmy's still buy the
car unconscious. He hasn't been ableto move sometime though. I'm not even
gonna lie is the worst killer inthe world. Oh, he is truly
terrible, which is good for us, but wonderful. No, I'm not
like this is his best quality.Yes, yes, yes, like his

(15:45):
best quality is he's a shitty killer. He's very lucky he didn't do this
about fifty years later, because hewould have gotten caught super easy. Even
in this I don't know, maybenot to seventy's he probably would have gotten
away but yeah, no, there'sno way he would Zodiac. Oh yes,
yes, you're right. So yeah, so he would have look at

(16:07):
Zodiac. Zodiac got away. Um. So sometime after the escape, maybe
during the assault, Jimmy does regainconsciousness and he also flags down a car
that was driving on Richmond Road.For some reason, the driver is just
like, okay, you stay here, I'll go get help. So they
leave Jimmy where he had just beenattacked, not knowing if the killer's going

(16:29):
to come back or anything. Sothe driver just goes goes to a nearby
funeral home to call Yeah Jimmy,Like why didn't Jimmy like, no,
fucker, I'm getting in your car, Like I'm not gonna Maybe they were
like, I don't know, likestranger danger, don't. I mean,
in his defense, he fucking gotbashed in the head, so thinking logically

(16:52):
on getting into the car, hewas probably like, Hi, I think
my name's Tim. Not sure,my head hurts, so can you help
me help me out here? Ithink it's just more so and good point.
I just want to know why thedriver didn't insist on them getting into
the car, and I know,not being in this situation myself, I

(17:15):
mean that's pretty scary that. Imean, we do we do talk about
fight, you know, fight orflight, and that's I U see something
scary, Like that's pretty freaking scary. Yeah, I mean shit in the
forties too. Random guy comes likethat scared the shut of let them in
there and be like, oh,I mean now I have cell phone service,

(17:36):
so I'd be like, it's allright, I'll call my one for
you for back. Then I'm like, I don't want to look like this
guy. Oh yeah, that's true. So maybe that maybe that's what it
is. But so thirty minutes lateraround there, a little bit less Sheriff
w H. Bill Pressley of BowieCounty comes to the scene along with three
other officers, and by the timethey get there, the attacker has already

(17:57):
left. Now Mary's hospital overnight doto her head wound. Jimmy's in the
hospital a little bit longer because whenhe was hit in the head, his
skull ended up being fractured, andthat's the sound that Mary heard was his
skull literally breaking. During questioning,they do give conflicting reports as to what
this attacker looks like. So Marysaid that the man was wearing a white

(18:18):
bag over his head, and thathe had cut out her eyes and his
mouth. She also claimed to beable to see under part of the mask
and claimed that he was a blackman. Jimmy, on the other hand,
said their attacker was white, probablyabout thirty years old. I'm not
really sure how you can tell howold they are without seeing their face.
I don't know, just a personalquestion, like how did you know?

(18:40):
Maybe they were like maybe they werelike super athletic, but like not too
athletic, Like maybe they were likesuper quick, but how do weeze?
So they were like, he hasto be thirty. He's obviously old and
can't move. He's obviously respiratory.But the man was failing well outside of
like I was thinking, Okay,so obviously the face is obviously the easiest

(19:00):
way to judge someone's age or maybetry to guess to meet their age.
But also I think their hands too. Oh yeah, but I feel like
a little bit miss It can obviouslystill be misleading, but that there's only
two things I could think of.And I don't know if this man was
wearing gloves, so I don't maybehis voice not too. I just feel

(19:23):
like all the things that he probablycould have judged him on are so wrong?
Well, they also said like acouple of different things, Like I
also heard a couple of a coupleof different ways. Why they how they
explained about and I was like,that's literally the same thing, Yes,
the same thing. Yeah, soit's and yeah and either way like Jimmy

(19:45):
though, so he's like, Okay, this is what he looked like from
what I can remember. However,I couldn't see much of his features because
he shined a flashlight in my faceand he couldn't see And so really marries
the main one who had more contactwith him, unfortunately because of her rape.
So but again, like there's allthe trauma that goes in with that,

(20:06):
so who knows how it's she mayrecall it. Um. They do
both agree though, that the manwas about six feet tom Now for some
reason, they only challenge Mary onher account. From what I read,
they like really go hard on her, and that they believed that they were
covering for their attacker because they knewhim. Yeah, so like that she
is like I think, and Ithink because they won, they were dealing

(20:30):
with two different counties. Yeah,and one thing is to note so and
so I think that they just didn'tknow what the fuck to do. Yeah,
there are and then they just theywere like why did you fucking die?
Like your attacker could have killed youbut liked him. Jimmy, that

(20:52):
then too right, And again likethat head condition because she she didn't doesn't
matter, you know what, youknow, because he was hit in the
head, he wouldn't have the bestrecollection, like if there was any chance
she would have the best one,and they wanted to make sure it was.
I don't know, it just itdoesn't sit right with me that they
were like more going at her likeoh, murmurmur, Like again, this

(21:15):
is assuming that they know how todo their fucking job correct. And it's
also like this is the first attack. But as we go on later you'll
find out someone. I didn't includeall of the police entities because there's like
six police or different like authoritative bodiesthat are involved in the US and it
just gets so convoluted, So Ididn't include all of them. Again,

(21:37):
if you want more, you're justgonna have to do some research. There's
so many. Use some Google.Um so the next murder so Richard Griffin
twenty nine and Polly and More seventeenThey were the second couple to be victimized,
but the first to be killed bythis killer that we know of.
The couple were found dead on Marchtwenty fourth of nineteen forty six and Richard's

(21:59):
oldsmobile. Now to put that inperspective too, So Jimmy and Mary had
been in talked in February twenty sixor twenty second. Excuse me, so
this is about a whole month later. This person waited cooling off period.
It's not that much, but kindof I don't know. So a passing
motorist had made the discovery as theypassed the card around eight thirty or nine

(22:22):
in the morning, and again theytwo were found in an area that had
been a known lover's lane, andat first the driver thinks that they're sleeping.
They find Griffin between the front seats. He was on his knees,
his head was rested on his hands, and his hands had been crossed.
His pockets had also been turned insideout. Pauli Anne was on She was
faced down on the back seat.Evidence would later show that she had been

(22:45):
killed on a blanket outside of thecar and was then placed back into the
car, which would fit with whatwe know from Jimmy and Mary where they
were told to get out of thecar and all of this stuff, so
presumably he maybe have done the samething to them. Now Richard had been
shot twice while he had soap itin the car. They were bullshot in
the back of the head, andtheir bodies were still clothed. Investigators did

(23:07):
find a patch of grass neither carthat was soaked with blood, and then
this again just bolster their theory thatone of them, probably Pollyanne, had
been murdered outside and put back inthe car, so congealed blood could be
found inside the car, as wellas a thirty two caliber cartridge shell believed
to have come from the Colt pistolthat was wrapped in a blanket. There
were rumors at first that there wassexual assault. More modern reports deny that

(23:32):
that had happened, however, soit's I don't think we can really rely
on that because apparently Pollyanne had beenembombed prior to the investigation really finishing in
terms of maybe her body and everything. I don't know how soon after,
but it seems like pretty soon afterher family just had her embombed in forensics
again, the little forensic that theycould do. At the time, it

(23:55):
wasn't really done. Now the murdershappened on the border again of Texas and
Arkansas, so both Texas and arkArkansas City Police, the Department of Public
Safety, Miller and Cass County Sheriffs, and the FBI are all investigating this.
So there's so many hands in thepot that are trying to deal with
this. Three days later, thelocal police had already interviewed about fifty to

(24:15):
sixty witnesses. By the thirtieth theyhad offered a five hundred dollars reward to
get new information that would lead tothe arrest and conviction of the murderer.
Unsurprisingly, there were about one hundredfalse leaves that were generated as a result
of people just wanting the money.Oh yeah, this whole case is nothing
but false leads and just it's I'mnot like researching this and just also reading

(24:41):
about what the media did too,and what some of the fear that one
of the officers was trying to spreadand just not using the right words maybe
to like talk to the public aboutthese really scary crimes made it so much
worse. At the time, Ithink I think we're all at ingredients agree
is that the media is the worst. Oh for sure, Like, but

(25:04):
it's it's it's weird. It's weirdthat it's like because this is back in
the forties and this is the thenewspapers. Yeah. Um, but this
is also around the time of yellowjournalism and sensationalism. So unfortunately this was
pretty normal, right, a normaloccurrence for them, Like it wasn't out

(25:26):
of the ordinary. Again, stillnot out of the ordinary, No,
now unfortually not like look at theDaily Mail or someone like it's ridiculous.
Look at yeah, look at it. Look at so many of them right
now that you're just like, Imean, just a fear mongering. Yeah,
that's a conversation in itself. Butyeah, back then, but back

(25:48):
then, I feel like it wasjust so much more because that's when that's
before they realize that, Hey,if not only regular people are reading this,
guess who else is reading the killer? The killers reading this, and
we are literally giving them everything theyneed. Yeah, this is how much
we know, Like they know everythingthat they've done. We only know or

(26:11):
they only know as much as they'vefound out. So the killer knows exactly
what path and what track they're onyou know what exactly, Yeah, what
they've discovered and right who knows,you know, because it's always so common
for police to withhold certain bits ofinformation just so that the killer, well
that one be identified. That wasone of the things when they were interviewing
one of the suspects, like thatperson had in details that they never even

(26:36):
released because they don't want to releaseeverything because that's what they want. They
want the person to bring the actualdetails because so much or slip up because
so many people have like come tobeen like I'm this person, I'm this
person. I look at for thiscopy for the copycat of this zodiac.
I'm zodiac. I'm zodiac. Ohyeah, you know, well one thing

(26:59):
of two. How lific it was. So you have these people and this
town is not like a not knowntown. It wasn't huge, but it
was still a town that was traveledquite frequently um backround that time period.
So I mean this was it wasa small town, but it had a
big name. Yes, you couldsay, yeah, and unsurprisingly, so

(27:23):
you know, they had already heardabout the tack on Jimmy and Mary.
But then after the murder of Richardand Pauli Anne parents are really concerned for
their kids, and they're just like, hey, don't be out too late,
avoid lovers lanes, all of thisstuff. Be very safe because like
this this rando is out here murderingkids for like, and like kids adults
because some of them are older thaneighteen. And but again like, yeah,

(27:48):
so the whole town was just terrified. Oh yeah, they were buying
walks, they were it was atown that you know, was very quiet.
Now they know they don't know whothis person is. Almost like and
again here it comes back to me. It reminds me of the Butcher Baker,
where they didn't know who this personcould be. It could be somebody
in their home, it could beanybody, it could be somebody. And

(28:11):
that's what they kind of said.You know, this is somebody that's probably
low on the radar. They're probablya community person. Yeah, they're probably
well known, they're probably well liked, Yeah exactly. Yeah, And it's
like and it's crazy and especially forlike the parents of those who have been
attacked or murdered already, they're like, well, I don't know if I'm
talking to my kids killer or whatever, like yeah, truly, no one,

(28:32):
like you know, you don't reallyknow your neighbor. Nope, no,
you don't at all. So thereis on Saturday, Saturday, April
thirteenth of nineteen forty six, thereis another murder. And we're gonna pause
here for a break, and whenwe get back, I will tell you
more about that murder. Welcome back, Welcome, welcome. So on Saturday
April thirteen, to Betty Joe Booker, who is fifteen, she had a

(28:53):
regular gig with her band and sheplays the sacks. So she's at some
club and they're playing. The clubwas called VFW and so they're playing and
about it. One thirty on Sundaymorning. She's done, so Paul Martin,
who is seventeen, he comes topick her up. Despite living in
Kiligore. Now Paul did come totext her cannad to spend the weekend with

(29:15):
friends or family or a family,and then he just happened to be picking
buddy up. Now the moment thatthey left the club, that was the
last time they had ever been seenalive. Later that morning, at about
six thirty, Paul's body is foundby mister and missus G. H.
Weaver, and they were also withtheir son when they find his body.
Which is crazy. That kind ofreminds me of Black Dahlia a little bit.

(29:37):
It really does. Yeah, I'mtelling you every part of this case.
There was one thing where I canalmost pick out a different case that
covered where I'm just like, ohmy god, it gives me these vibes,
or it gives me these vibes.Yeah. So he was lying on
his left side and there was bloodfound further down the road from his body.
Paul had been shot four times whenthrough the nose, through the left

(30:00):
fourth rib, from behind, andthrough the right hand. Buddy Joe's body
was discovered not for another five hours. So they had found him and they're
on a search party. I don'tknow how they knew she was with him
at all, but they have asearch party out and she was found by
the Boyd family. She was foundon her back. She was fully clothed,

(30:22):
and her right hand was in thepocket of her overcoat, which is
not how you would normally die.There's there's no in my opinion, situation
in which you're you get shot,you get stabbed, and you fall and
your hand goes in your pocket.I'm like, oh no, especially Yeah,
So to me, it just seemedand I'm obviously weird shit can happen,

(30:45):
So maybe that is how she fell. I mean, maybe she was
on her face, in her back. Hold on, let me so she
was on Okay, So she wason her back, yes, and her
right hand was in her pocket.I mean maybe if she got she had
her hands in her pockets and shewas looking down and like she got shot

(31:06):
and like it, or maybe shewas running her hands were closer and then
she fell. I don't know,I don't know. To me, it
just screams of staging. Yeah,staging the crime. Um, And we
will get into a little bit morein my opinion as to why this probably
wasn't naturally how she fell. Um, she'd been shot twice, once through

(31:30):
at the chest and once in theface. She was quote quote criminally assaulted,
and based on the FBI report,there were some there was some sort
of sexual encounter. So testing didconclude that they did find semen, but
um, it didn't match Paul.However, the FBI couldn't definitively, definitively
say that she had been raped becausedid she have sex before or like,

(31:55):
was it consensual with somebody? Dollsthe full story? So yeah, all
they know is that it wasn't Paul, that she had maybe had consensual sex
with, If not then whatever,So it would match the first case,
you know, just going off ofwhat he did to marry. But again
we can't really conclusively say that.But what we can say and match to

(32:19):
the other murders is that ballistics didshow that a thirty two Colt pistol had
been used, and the pistol ornot the pistol, the bullet itself came
from the same exact gun, sothey knew for sure that this was the
same person. Later examinations of thebody would show that both Paul and Betty
Joe had put up a fight.Betty Joe Booker was the youngest victim of

(32:39):
the phantom as well. Again,she was only fifteen years old, and
both of their bodies were found onthe Texas side of the state line.
Paul's car was found about three milesfrom Betty Joe's body. It still had
the keys in it as well.They did find a fingerprint on the steering
wheel that didn't belong to either victim. They also found something called a quick

(33:00):
wind cord and it was to aman's hat. It was just some kind
of chord that had gotten left there, and it didn't belong to either Betty,
Joe, Paul, or Paul's familybecause I think he had been borrowing
this car. It wasn't his.I think it was his family's when if
someone from his family corrects me,fam rolling, They couldn't figure out who
had been shot first, though SheriffPresley and Texas Ranger Captain Manuel Gonzales did

(33:24):
later tell the public that the examinationof the body showed that they put up
a huge fight. The saxophone endedup becoming a very big piece of evidence
because it went missing from the crimescene and it wouldn't be found for six
months. Yeah. Yeah, thisone was a big key part, Yes,
and it was found in October twentyfourth. It was still in its

(33:45):
black case, and it had beenunder the underbrush near Paul's body. So
you would presumably if there is asearch party, they would start and hear
Paul Paul's body, start near thecar once they find it, and fan
out from there. I mean,not even gonna lie. Um, the
police department fucking failed miserably on this. I mean, I mean they had

(34:07):
to bring in the Texas Rangers,like, okay, but to be honest
and to be fair. At thesame time, they didn't really have a
police department back then. They hadI think they had a sheriff's barely.
They had like a three man teamor something. It was it was small
because like again, like people knewabout this town, but it was just
a run through. It was kindof it was the town. It was

(34:30):
small and so like when this startedcoming out, So the first time it
came out, somebody like they didn'teven like they were like, oh,
those two people died, Oh,that's so sad, and then they didn't
really think of it. But thesetwo, when these two died, they
were like, I think we havea problem. Yeah. And then the
Texas Rangers came up and they werelike we're yeah, and then that's when

(34:53):
they started investigations. But then themedia started getting involved at that same time.
But there was that one mayor tooor another one police department guy Gonzalez.
Yeah, fucking yeah. I'm nota big fan of Gonzales personally.
Well, he used his looks andhe used that to play politics and he

(35:15):
did so many interviews and it wasjust so shitty. Yeah, because all
the ladies were like, which likegood for you. But over so they
wouldn't write anything bad, they wouldn'twrite anything false. They would you know,
like to make him. They wouldn'tbe critical of the police department,
not at all, especially if hewas their figurehead. I could see.

(35:36):
And all he cared about was hisimage and his reputation. He didn't care
about the case. It was allpolitics. It wasn't it wasn't the work
of it. Yeah, and that'swhat I think. Let that person.
I think that's what let people slipthrough the cracks, Yes, for sure.
And then even like we'll go onto talk about two suspects and it's

(35:58):
just it's a shit show. Soafter this double murder, the reward fund
was increased to seventeen hundred dollars.More rumors do start to circulate about what
exactly is going on. There wasone rumor that suggested a local minister came
forward to turn in his own sonas a suspect. He's like, Okay,

(36:20):
God tells me that I can't protectyou, so I'm gonna go turn
you in. God's not protecting you. You gotta go see leader. And
this it doesn't go anywhere, um, not after this murder that the town
and police set a care fee forbusinesses to lessen the amount of people who
are out at the time. Ofcourse, like we've unseubtly hinted at,

(36:42):
the media coverage does not help atall. They're just instilling fear in the
community. And the FBI at thispoint also get involved. And the media
reports of Paul and Betty Joe,they kind of go back and forth between
saying that they were friends, thenwe're friends in kindergarten, they were day
don't really know, they're at leastfrunds. It's really all we can really

(37:04):
confirm now. Basically, it's rightafter this murder that, of course they
start linking the other murders to this. On May third of nineteen forty six,
Virgil Starks, thirty seven, hecomes home from the night and he
comes home to his wife and thefarm that they live at, and they're
about ten miles outside of tex Sarcana. He sits down to listen to his

(37:25):
radio show in the living room andhis wife, Katie, who's thirty six,
she's in the bedroom lane down andat some point she hears a noise
in the backyard and it's like,hey, Virgil, can you turn down
your show, so I can hearwhat this is, like, there's some
weird noise out here, and secondslater she hears two shots fired and they
this person Virgil shot in the headtwice. And Katie doesn't hear that,

(37:49):
but what she hears, but shehears what she thought to be the breaking
of class, So she assumes likeVirgil drops something, So she goes to
the living room and she stops inthe doorway to see Verd Jill stand up
and he immediately sums back down intohis chair. She then starts to see
the blood running down from his headand at that point like he's already dead,
unfortunately, so she runs to thephone. She wants to try to
call the cops, and they werestill using a wall crank phone at that

(38:14):
time. Yeah, And I hadto look up that was to make sure
I knew what it was. AndI was like, two things. It's
almost like a face, yes,it's like and how I was like,
I was thinking rotary would be thething now, but apparently not. They're
using crank phones now in the forties. Yeah, rotary phones came after the
crank phone. Why I knew thatcame after, but I thought by forty
six, they would have already hada rotary phone. Shit, No,

(38:37):
I don't know when rotary phones cameout. I'm just judging. No,
I remember, mind, Like oneof my I like listening to stories with
my dad is you know he's youngerand back in the day, like in
the fifties and stuff, you wouldhave like the whole building or area,
like four people would share a phone. Why so you would like sit there

(39:00):
and you would like listen to otherpeople's phone calls. And yeah, like
you know, it was a wayeasier to be nosy back then because you
would just have to pick up thephone and listen. It's like the police
scanners to everybody's ship. I wouldhave parted my wine. I'm like,
I had a rough day time listento some fucking phone calls, bitch.
So I would have done it too. So she's using the crank phone and

(39:22):
as she's trying to call the cop, she's shot twice in the face from
the same window. So see it'sthe same window that Virgil had been shot
through. One bullet enters her rightcheek, exits her left ear, and
the second bullet entered just below herlip and embedded into under her tongue down

(39:42):
there. It was like further down, but it's the area right below your
tongue, and not just hoot,no thanks, it was part of her
face is demolished. Yes, yeah, because the force of that second bullet.
It broke her jaw and her teeth, so everything is just it's a
ruck. But despite this, she'sable to get up to her feet.
She goes to get their pistol fromher living room, but there's of course

(40:02):
a lot of blood pouring down herface and it's blocking her site, so
there's only so much she can actuallydo. But she can't hear the killer
trying to get through the back door, so of course she's like, I'm
gonna fucking die, and so sheruns to her bedroom, which is near
the front of the house, withthe intentions of leaving some sort of note,
presumably about what's going on, andall the while she can hear the

(40:23):
killer trying to open the back door. It sounds like he was trying to
get in by breaking this screen,but it wasn't working, so they go
through the kitchen window. She canhear this, and weaves throughout the house
and she ends up. I presumeI think the killer had already been in
the house, so she's able tododge and weave and leaves through the front
door and avoids this man. However, of course, you know there's a

(40:45):
trail, so the killer could followher if he wanted. So she runs
across the street to where her sisterand her brother in law live. They're
not home, so she goes tothe home of a v Prattor who is
fifty yards away, and she hasjust enough energy to tell them Virgil's dead
and then she collapses. So Prayterthen shoots the rifle. He has a

(41:06):
rifle, so he shoots it inthe air to get the attention of another
neighbor who was Elmor Taylor, andTaylor comes out and Prater tells him to
grab his car because quote, misterand missus Stark had been shot. So
mister and missus Prator, they andtheir baby, and Elmor Taylor ride with
Katie to the hospital. For somereason, Katie gives Taylor one of her
teeth with and it had gold filling, and like, she's not in her

(41:28):
right mind, so I don't knowwhy she does this. It's just kind
of is that, Okay, Iwas kind of wondering for like driving her.
Right, that's crazy that even afterall that happened, she's still courteous
enough to be like, oh,I should pay you for driving me to
the hospital. I'm actually dying.I mean it's allegedly, I mean it's
a nice it's a nice gesture,like who knows him less, Like who
knows if maybe that thing was justreally fucking hurting her and she was like

(41:51):
here tah. I mean I liketo think that she was like, oh
my god, so so appreciative thatshe was like, here, M sorry
for bleeding on you. Even that'sa lot for someone to still do.
I'd be like, but sorry,I can't help it, Like I just
forgot fucking shocked. What do youwant but gold teeth? Back in that
day, that was like shit,they just bought her house. Oh that's

(42:13):
true. Yeah, I'd probably beenworth a lot of money, even that
small amount of gold. Like canyou imagine She's like she's like, hold
plays, okay, now you cantake him into the ear. I'm good.
Now she paid my dess she's likenot loose, not like it's kind
of splintered at this point, they'rejust yeah, yeah, broken and just
who knows who knows how it looked. Yeah, so she had lost a

(42:35):
considerable amount of blood, but medicalprofessionals said that there was no sign at
the time that she would be goinginto shock. Her heartwear was pretty normal,
surprisingly, and Sheriff W. E. Davis again is the head of
the investigation, and he questions Katieafter she comes out of her surgery.
They do talk a few times,and during one interview, she does address

(42:55):
the rumor that had been going aroundthat Virgil had hurt a car drive outside
of their house for several nights priorto the murder and he had feared being
murdered. She was like, thatdidn't happen. I don't know. I
don't know where that rumor came from. It's not true. He never told
me. I don't know. Onthe other end of things, they were
at least three to four different policeentities that had responded to the ninety one

(43:17):
one call about Virgil and Katie.Charlie Boyd and Max's Tackett were the first
two officers on the scene, andthey're with the Arkansas State Police, so
there are conflicting reports as to whatthey had found at that when they entered.
There's one officer who said Virgil wasstill slumped over their chair was soaked
with blood, and that the chairhad been on fire because once Virgil had

(43:37):
sat down. Initially, Katie hadgiven him a heating pad for his back
because he was some sort of laborer, a metal laborer or something, so
he was probably sore, so shegave him that and it was still on
So they're saying it was the chairwas on fire. Sure if W.
Davis, however, was like nope, or he was like, the chair
was on fire, but Virgil's bodywas already on the floor because it wasn't

(44:00):
burned, So I don't really knowhow this happened. Anyways, They do
set up blockades for several miles andthe FBI recalled in, as were the
Texas Rangers, and I believe atthis point they had already been involved since
the second double murder. During theinvestigation, they find a trail of blood
and teeth that are just scattered uponthe floor, and after seeing the blood,

(44:22):
one reporter was like, I haveno idea how she didn't bleed to
death because there was just so fuckingmuch of it, and it's how she
survived is beyond me me too,Like it's crazy me too. I mean,
adrenaline is a very very crazy yeah. I mean it can make you

(44:44):
just you don't feel anything. You'rejust in a completely different zone. So
I mean that's a lot of adrenalinein every situation, every situation you can
think of. So I mean,yeah, yeah, I don't know how
she didn't leave out though, whenyou also have to think it was through

(45:07):
her jaw and through her head,so not only did she live, but
like or it was through cheek upthrough her ear and then the jaws out
the left cheeks, so it wentfrom here and then out up to the
right ear here, so this wasgone. Huh. Well not only that,
but then it shot. She wasshot here and the chin right yeah,
point blank here, we'll not pointblank, but like she shot,

(45:30):
it was very forceful still and thenit was enough to lodge there. So
she has this bullet in her mouth. Yeah still, I mean props to
her. Yeah. So in oneof the windows there were only two bullet
holes, and this led the sheriffto conclude that an automatic rifle was used.
And after the shooting, a Virgil, the killer waited outside until they

(45:52):
could see Katie and then shot hertwo but again I don't know how only
two bullet holes were just in thewindow, Like I feel like you would
have to have a sniper for thatkind of precision, because there should be
at least four bullet holes unless youjust didn't move. Or how did the
glass not shatter as well? That'sjust where like one, how did it

(46:15):
not shatter? Yeah, then that'swhy I didn't under I didn't. I
didn't understand because she said that sheokay, so she said there was a
point where she said that she waslooking for the other gun in the room,
right, but she can hear himtrying to open up windows, yeah,
and trying to get in, Andso I guess if you if you're

(46:39):
in that close of a range ofwouldn't it shatter the window? I would
think so well, because also ifyou're also saying if you're that close it
would shatter, like you're right,it would be sniper level where it just
be like bin and then go straightthrough. But it was still I mean,
shatter the glass unless it was temperedglass, which nineteen forties glass,
I'm pretty sure. As for edgewas fuck yeah, I don't see it

(47:00):
being very strong. That's why that'swhy when I was going through this case,
I was like, I don't evenknow what to believe because you don't
even know what the media of howit was like described and stuff, because
they were truthful on it. Yeah, because I was, I'm with you.
The glass would have shutter, Itshould have shattered, even if they're
using it a rifle. So Ican see how there could be only two

(47:21):
bullet holes, especially if you holdit hold the trigger, like, who
knows how many bullets are going tobe released, Like he could have shot
them twice, But because it wasan automatic, maybe just the two shots
were so shape is this bullet becauseunless it's like a piercing one where you
know what I mean, I knowwhat you mean, the sharp ended one,
Yeah, where that wouldn't that oneleave that because the velocity that it's

(47:42):
going to go is just I couldsee that. But not a dult one,
an a dull rounded one. Yeahyeah, I don't know. Yeah,
So so what they could They determinedthat it was at twenty two caliber
because that's what the kind of boltsthat they were found. But I didn't
do any research in terms of whatlike a twenty two caliber rifle kind of

(48:05):
bullet looks like, except right now, So I'm gonna do. It's a
dull one. I don't know.I don't know. Actually I think it
might vary. Who knows, actually, Okay, it depends on what kind,
So it could be sharp or itcould be rounded. So it doesn't
really help us at all. Soagain we're back to score one. What
it's weird though, is so Idon't know how they connected this to the

(48:30):
phantom because the Phantom was using athirty two caliber Colt pistol and now we
have a twenty two caliber automatic riflebeing used in a completely different way.
All of this is actually different fromwhat the Phantom was doing, Like every
single thing was different. They founda flashlight right under the window that the
couple had been shot through as well. They also found a bloody shoeprint and

(48:52):
smudged fingerprints, which were going toend up being pretty big evidence for the
police to use later on. Nowwhy the police are dealing with the crime
scene. They're also worried about anothermurderer happening. So as far as I
could see, there were never twocouples attacked in one weekend either way.
Police use bloodhounds to chase a scentand where they got a sent I have

(49:15):
no idea what they gave to thesedogs to be like find them, Like,
I don't know what they have tobe an article of clothing that has
their scent correct would be something withtheir scent on it, and it could
be something that we don't know exists. Again if they held anything back,
But I don't know what they gavethis these dogs to sniff off of.

(49:35):
Yeah again, you're like, didso did that happen? Yeah, exactly,
Like it's so convoluted. They did, however, find two trails that
led to the highway, but theylost it from there. Police were surveying
lovers lanes in hopes of catching theattacker and preventing another murder. Twelve suspects
had been detained by Sunday, andthere were forty seven officers working around the

(49:55):
clock to break the case. Katiedid start showing kinds of improvement, and
while working on the case, thepolice did theorize that it was a sex
maniac who would attacked them, Likewhat yeah, those sex maniacs, they
really did it, Okay, Idon't know. I mean there's like when
there's no sex involved, well forher this case specifically, Yeah, and

(50:20):
I'm going off for her case.Ye, but yeah, like I mean,
okay, okay, like I don'tknow how you don't know, I
don't know how you can come upwith sex. I mean there was there
was one sexual assault confirmed, yes, so I mean one confirmed, one
they couldn't tell because the body hadbeen embalmed. And then the other one

(50:40):
is they found seamen but they don'tknow. Yeah, okay, so yeah,
one at least confirmed, but theySo the reason that they thought some
sort of sex mania was the motivewas because there was nothing stolen, so
money was still their purses were stillthere, valuable items were still there seeking

(51:00):
pleasure exactly. Yes, So ofcourse the press run wild with this,
and it's worth noting that the pressthe whole time was just against and satializing
this case very badly. They didtry to use the media to their advantage
though, specifically the radio, andthis is where Avasar Gonzalez goes on the
radio asking people to stop spreading rumorsbecause it wasn't helping. Residents were also

(51:22):
asked to send in donations to helpmore than likely with the reward money.
Specifically, so the flashlight at theStark's residence had been sent to the FBI
for testing, and on May ninth, results came back and no fingerprints had
been found. A photo with theflashlight did appear and the tech Arkanic Gazette,
and it was actually their first coloredphotograph, so that's interesting. It

(51:45):
did run with the caption saying,quote, have you seen this too?
Cell flashlight? They're pleading with thepublic to see if anyone recognizes this.
And while a lot of the samepolice officers are working on both the starkcase
and the fin Killers cases, theyweren't sure. They weren't connected at the
time at this point, so eachcase had their own reward money and everything.

(52:07):
So they're like, okay, ifwe can connect to them, of
course we're going to combine the rewards, but right now they're just everything is
separate. Buy November of nineteen fortyeight. However, they do determine that
whoever killed Virgil and shot Katie isnot the same person perpetrating the Phantom killers,
and it took them two years toestablish that, yeah, which I

(52:28):
don't know. Policing was so differentback then, and it was the murder
on an attack on the starts thatthrew everyone into a spind This was a
community again that was not they weren'tused to locking their doors. Was one
of those places where you just lovedeverything open because you trusted nothing had ever
happened here like that. But thesemurders totally changed their way of life.
They're locking their doors, keeping theircurtains closed. They blocked their windows,

(52:52):
even nailed them down in some cases. They also armed themselves with guns,
and stores were selling out of ammunismundguns, window covers, and residents were
also buying screen door hooks, whichis not going to really stop anyone,
if we're honest. It got sobad that if a police officer was out
to stop at someone's house for whateverreason, they had to make sure that

(53:15):
they had their lights on and theirsirens so that they wouldn't be shot by
some nervous neighbor who thinks that thephantom is coming after them. And you
Also, if you were just visitinga friend, you had to call them
for the same reason so that theyknew to expect you. Unfortunately, some
of Captain Gonzalez's remarks didn't help thecase. Like he said things like oil

(53:35):
up your guns, check the locksand bolts, get a double barreled shotgun.
And I get to a point wherehe would say certain things, but
again, like it's kind of likeyou're not helping the situation at all.
Like I get locking your door,shut, lock your doors. Of course
we say that all the time,but like it's Texas and Arkansas. Maybe
maybe it's just so different from whatI'm used to. So Texas, that's

(53:59):
why I'm like equal, like thatthat's just normal, like it isn't the
forties. And then again this isTexas, you know, like where they
you know they yeah, they werelike, hey, listen, if anything's
gonna go down, like you couldgo ahead and protect yourself, Like I

(54:21):
don't. I didn't feel like that. I think I thought that statement was
not reckless. I thought that waslike don't like you can protect your own
it's fine, like if somebody comesin because there's some point right yeah,
they're scared as fuck. Like I'mgonna tell you right now. I would
say the same thing like be cautious, because he did in his statement.
He was like, be cautious,make sure you're locking your doors, making

(54:44):
sure you're doing everything. But ifit comes down to it, this is
what you can do. Yeah,like go ahead, yeah, go ahead,
and chew because that's how it shouldgo if somebody's coming into you.
Oh, yes, correct, No, I'm one hundred percent you're down for
that. Yeah, so you're justlike, okay, I think it's just
on top of everything else, likeyou have overhear the media sensationalizing everything,

(55:07):
and then you have over here wherethis person's like oil up your guns.
Guys. Yeah, it should andyou should. I don't know, it
just kind of it just seems likea lot for these people all at once.
And I get it because you shouldprotect yourself. But gun search back
then, and you have to realizeback then you didn't have to register a
gun and you can get guns bythe mail until like sixty four. Sixty

(55:31):
four is when they were like allright, guys, like no more buying
guns from overseas and shit, likeyou got to register some of these,
right, not all the movies,but like like they were like when they
started to register stuff, guys,we should keep track of who has guns
something. I guess we should dothat, maybe have a registry and just
so we know in case, sowe know they help us prevent other crimes

(55:53):
or catch killers. Right yeah,so um so yeah, like you know,
know those are good points, right, and it was very much lacked,
so that was probably a statement thatcame out too late, if anything.
Yeah, I just point I thinkI'm just kind of biased because I
really don't like Gonzales in general.So I'm just like, really dude,

(56:15):
like, okay, but I getit. Yeah. So on top of
it, although two, the killerbeing called the phantom doesn't help anything.
It wasn't and so, and hedidn't get his name until the murder of
Betty Joe and Paul Martin, andof course the media gave him his moniker
the text Are. Canad Daily Newsran a headline on their April sixteenth edition

(56:36):
that said, quote Phantom killer eludesofficers as investigations of Slang's pressed. So
right there you have what would behis future two names, Phantom killer and
phantom slayer. Right, And that'sjust what keeps being used despite the number
of victims and potential witnesses. JimmyHollis and Mary Larry were the only two
of to ever seen the attacker firsthand, up close and everything, and we

(56:58):
only have their two conflicting description toreally go off of. Katie Stark did
survive, of course, but herattacker was more than likely someone else,
or that's what they're going off of. Who knows, and obviously, you
know, m I was pretty obvious. It's basically what Zodiac would do in
twenty years. Like we've said multipletimes, he would attack him couples that
were on a lover's lane. Healways used a thirty two caliber gun.

(57:22):
He always attacked on the weekends withoutfail, and usually the attacks were about
three weeks apart. They were alwayspretty late at night. Now. According
to Gonzalas, they were looking for, quote, a shrewd criminal who left
no stone unturned to conceal his identityand activities. He also said that the
killer was clever, baffling, cunning, when in reality, I think he

(57:44):
just used a lack of knowledge andtech to his advantage, not consciously,
but like truly, he literally hada sheet over his head. That's not
elaborate. I'm sorry, I justfeel like those statements give this person way
more credit. They don't deserve anykind of They're not hunting or elaborate or
anything. They just didn't get caughtbecause they're included. They're killing in secluded

(58:06):
areas where the likelihood of someone seeingsomething is very minimal, especially when you're
killing those people who could see somethingright, So that's yeah, they're not
cunning Gonzalas, thank you. Countraryto what the evidence does show. Doctor
Anthony Lapella, who was a psychologistin tech Arcana, or was at the
time, said though, said thathe thought not only were all the murders

(58:27):
done by the same man, thathe would probably continue with these random attacks
like virgils. He also said thathe believed that the killer was around his
mid thirties to fifties, which wouldwork with what Jimmy had said in terms
of his killer being in his thirties. He was also more than likely a
sadist who was motivated by a strongsex drive. So again this other,
this idea of sex ruling this killeris there. Again. His theory does

(58:52):
go further to say that he knewthe roads were being patrolled and chose to
target the farmland instead, so that'swhy he deviated from his normal m and
killed the Starks or one of theStarks. On top of that, when
a killer goes unapprehended, he willsometimes choose to commit crimes in different cities
to make it seem like a differentkiller. And that's definitely true, would

(59:15):
be true in thirty years. Ifyou look at Golden State, he had
about fifty different names from like theBajalaransacker, the ear because he was hitting
all these different districts and counties andnothing could really connect them at the time.
And as if we've seen with manydifferent cases, the Lapella does described
that the Phantom Killer he had thisDoctor Jekyll and mister High type of personality.

(59:38):
He probably a lot of total normallife. They don't believe that he
had any military background because it wouldhave been pretty apparent in the crimes.
He may not have even been aresident of tex or Canada. Despite the
obvious knowledge of the area. Thiskiller was not afraid of the heavy police
presence, and at best it wouldhave scared him away to a different town.

(01:00:00):
But he wouldn't stop killing altogether.So there wasn't much that was going
to deter this man from keeping onwith what he was doing. And for
a while the cases are looked atseparately in terms of a suspect, especially
considering that at the time there wasso much time between kills. So in
the case of Jimmie Hollis and MaryLarry, there were no suspects to be

(01:00:21):
apprehended, and Richard and pauling Anne'sKate. There were about two hundred people
or more that were questioned. Thisis also the time where they were starting
to be a lot of false lead. There's a lot of mania. People
are freaking out. Three unnamed suspectswere taken into custody because they had been
wearing bloody clothing and I'm assuming thatwas the night of the murder that they
had been apprehended or something. Buttwo of them were released pretty early on

(01:00:45):
after they explained away their buddy closed. But there was one person who was
held just a little bit longer buthad ended up being released later, Paul
Martin and Petty Joe Booker. Therewas a taxi driver, of course,
there would have to be a taxidriver in this case because of Zodiack,
who was a suspect in the murder. His cab had been seen close to
where the crimes happened later that morningand he was cleared as well. Though

(01:01:08):
a lot of friends and family andother suspects were questioned, but again nothing
really comes of it at all.The biggest lead, of course, like
I said, was the missing sacks, and at the time of the questioning
of some of the suspects, ithad not been found, but they would
find it a couple There would bea lead based on the saxophone, and

(01:01:30):
I'm going to tell you after ourbreak what that lead is. Welcome back.
So in April twenty seventh, twoweeks after the murder, a man
in his thirties is arresting Corpus Christiefor trying to sell a Bundy Alto Sacks
can't go one one one show,one episode without having some sort of callback

(01:01:52):
to that. The come working waslike, okay, one moment, I
need to check with my manager beforeI can accept this sale. And he
says, quote, what do youhave to talk to him about it?
For you work here, don't youAnd he seemed nervous, and she's like,
I kinda go talk to him,like I don't know what you want.
So when the manager comes out,this guy had already left, and
the manager does call the police.This man was arrested two days later,

(01:02:16):
and it was when he was tryingto buy a forty five caliber revolver from
a pawn shop. The salesgirl saysat the store, so that he initially
was trying to sell the sacks andthis woman does later I d him as
well. They didn't even know whythat's still a thing. What, yeah,
that's kind of weird. Can youstill do that? Interesting? Of

(01:02:38):
course though by this time that like, once they get to him, they
could not find the saxophone, probablybecause he dropped it off at the crime
scene. Later if this was indeedthe same saxophone that belonged to Betty Joe.
But they did find a bag ofbloody clothing in his hotel room.
One question about the man about it, The man says that the blood was
from a injury he got after abar fight. No confirmation as to whether

(01:03:02):
this man had cut on his forwardor any indicators that he had been in
a fight. However, Captain Gonzalezlater said that the man's alibi and everything
he was saying had been thoroughly checkedand so far he was telling the truth.
They couldn't connect this guy to thecase and Virgil murder and Katie's attacked.
There are a lot of people whowere nearby that were questioned. Twelve

(01:03:23):
were detained and nine were later released. The other three were questioned further,
but again they were released as well. So at this point they have nothing
to go off of, but thatdid not stop people from theorizing as to
who the killer may have been.Oh yeah, so the prime suspect.
So Max Tackett Again, he's athirty three year old Arkansas police officer.

(01:03:44):
He was one of the first officerson the scene of Virgil Stark's death.
He was a rookie cop, butat the time, so at the time
he was working, he was arookie cop, excuse me. And on
the night of one of the murders, it's not specified which one, but
he did notice a car had beenstole and was later found abandoned. Okay,
so in June twenty Okay, it'seither June twenty second or June twenty

(01:04:08):
eighth. I haven't written as Junetwo hundred and twenty eighth of nineteen forty
six, so you guys figured itout, and not really sure. He
finds another stolen car in a parkinglot and he waits for its owner,
and that ended up being Peggy Swineyand she was twenty one. Now I'm
not really sure why the first stolencar is of any note. And then
they talked about Paula twenty or Peggaswinny. I don't know how this is

(01:04:31):
linked at all. It sounds likeher husband had this whole operation going on,
and what she tells cops was thathe was in Atlanta, Texas,
because there's in Atlanta, Texas apparently, and he was trying to sell a
different stolen car. So he's basicallyjust stealing cars in zelen Wept and right,
so tech tacket business I guess,so he was a businessman. So

(01:04:53):
I'm not sure if that first stolencar, Yeah, basically he's a small
business owner. Well, I don'tknow, because like they find that one,
that one car, and that's justmentioned and then he's like I was
waiting for this other soul in car, like I found this one. And
then like are they connected somehow didyou connect them both to the same Like
what happened? That was the thing. They were like, why does this

(01:05:15):
keep happening? Oh okay? Theywere like this is weird. So they
just got real we get a bodysome some ship that goes on with you.
Yeah, right, so there wego. They're like, we don't
believe in coincidences, so you shouldn'tbecause they're very rarely happening, Like they
do happen, but not as oftenas you would know when it comes to
murder exactly. So Tacket contacts Atlanta, Texas Police Department and he talks to

(01:05:42):
Homer Carter, and Carter tells Tackettthat he had been trying to this man
or her husband had been trying tosell a card to someone who lived in
town, and Tackett wanted to knowif this person would recognize him, and
the witness said no, he wouldn'trecognize the man. It sounds like Tackett
did dry drive down to Atlanta totalk to the man or he was talked

(01:06:02):
to by Homer in terms of liketrying to buy the car, and he's
like, Okay, you may notremember this man and what he looks like,
but more than likely because you're apparentlyin such a distinctive outfit, which
was like a cowboy hat in something. And I'm like, this is Texas,
and like what that's not distinctive?Yeah, unless it was a really
flashy cowboy hat and full of likeit's all bedazzled. Yes, Like it's

(01:06:27):
not. It's not like you're incalifornia're wearing a cowboy hat or New York
or something. Alligator skin, yeah, like I don't understand an whatever.
But basically Tackett is like, Okay, well you were in such distinctive clothing
or you're very distinctive, so hemay remember you so or would avoid him
or something, but they could telleither way. So in July, Tackett

(01:06:50):
is in the Arkansas motor coach busnear Union Station and he sees a man
run out of the building. Achase then does later ensue, and after
catching the man, he is identifiedas Yule Sweeney. He made some questionable
comments that some like they made alot out of his comments later after he
was arrested in connection to the murderum, one of them being that he

(01:07:14):
was afraid of being sentenced to theelectric chair, and in questioning, they're
like, you we have you fortheft, like you're not getting the chair
for that, and he said somethingalong the lines of you know, you
have more than just this on me, So they used that a lot.
They use these really innocuous comments thathe makes to then be like, well
he was the phantom, right,And I'm like, that's really loose,

(01:07:34):
like heaton, He's he's alluding toit, but he's not confirming it,
and they're not going in with itso correct. Well, Peggy does confess
that he's the killer, seeings likea fucking canary, but she is.
She had like a couple different stories. She's not very trying, and we

(01:07:57):
don't know the relationship, like whatshe's just saying to get away from him,
like she should not want to beselling cars. But she also she
was the one that was able togive details that nobody else knew. Yes
she did, she did. Soshe goes on in great detail about everything,
and despite the amount that she toldthem, they still felt like she
was holding something back. Police didverify some of what she did say,

(01:08:21):
one statement leading them to a locationof possessions that belonged to a victim or
victims. There was a shirt thatwas found in his possession that they believe
belonged to Virgil Stark. They can'treally prove how it got there, so
most of their case based off isbased off her confession, and a lot
of what they're finding is still verycircumstantial evidence. But by this time it

(01:08:45):
was not required that a spouse testifyagainst their their significant others. So Peggy
isn't can't be four, she can'tbe subpoena to testify if she declines to
do it, and on top ofthat, she's just considered unreliable. Because
of this, they really can't domuch against Goal for the murders. And
he was sent to prison for thecar theft. He didn't take a plea

(01:09:08):
deal, apparently he was sent thereas a habitual offender, and that and
the fact that he agreed to ano consent plea. He wasn't like,
I don't know he so he hada no consent plea, which is that
I don't know what that is.It was just like, I'm not going
to really go that's like, whynot just do a not guilty plea or

(01:09:29):
guilty at that point, because thenyou're admitting guilt. So so, I
mean, it's not an Alfred plea. It's like you plead the fifth m
okay. I mean, it's notyou're not not guilty. You're not saying
you're guilty. You're not saying you'renot guilty. You're just like no consent,
okay, okay, yeah, Andit but what's also weird is that

(01:09:51):
because the plea deal was also mentioned, and it seemed like he took it
to not get the death penalty.But again he wouldn't have gotten a death
penalty to begin with because he wasThey could only confirm he was stealing cars,
so the evidence against him one ofthem, the car that Peggy had
been driving, was one that wasreported missing on the night of the Griffin

(01:10:11):
and more murders. Again, thereare the incrimining statements that you'll set upon
his arrest, such as, quote, mister, don't play games with me.
You want me for more than stealingcars. End quote. When a
lawyer came to tell Peggy that thepolice were charging you with the murder um,
she apparently responded stating, how didyou find out? Good? Okay,
Peggy, what the fuck? Jesuspeg? No, Bonnie and Clyde

(01:10:35):
here, No, Like She's justlike, yeah, he did it.
How do you know? Like this? She's not a writer. Die and
let me tell you a little storyabout this fool. Peggy's family even believed
that he was a phantom, sothat's obviously hard hitting evidence right there.
They're shut that they found believed tobelong to our Virgil Stark. It was

(01:10:56):
a work shirt that had his lastname embordered on it, and in the
pocket of the shirt they found slagwhich in the most basic term is a
form of glass, and it matchedwherever Virgil worked, so it just another
proof that this is probably his shirt. Uele did also own a thirty two
caliber Cole Automatic, but sold itduring a crops game. Not really sure
when he sold it as well comparedto the murders, but he did have

(01:11:20):
a gun that matched what was beingused. However, there was more to
go against him being the murderer.His fingerprints did not match any of the
Book or Martin scenes, which againthat's where they found the fingerprint on the
driving of the steering wheel. Peggydid end up later taking her statement back
that really doesn't is not definitive ofanything, but it happened. Texas Rangers

(01:11:43):
in chaff Bill Presley did not thinkthat Yule was the phantom. He didn't
confess while they were trying to confrom Peggy's story and ended up determining that
she wasn't telling the truth. Andthe night of the Book or Martin murdered
the couple, Yule and Peggy hadactually been sleeping in a car under a
bridge, so she couldn't have reallymurdered them. In nineteen ninety nine and

(01:12:05):
two thousand family members ended up gettingcalls by an anonymous woman who said that
she was sorry for what her fatherhad done and you'll never had a daughter
that we know of, So itwouldn't really make sense that that was him.
Despite a lot of circumstantial evidence,most people believe it's Yule who was

(01:12:27):
the Phantom killer. He's the numberone suspect if you look this case up.
Yeah. They also she also wasable to give details of like a
book that was thrown in the bushesthat they later did find that they didn't
go like public about. She knewlike certain things, like at first she
was like, oh, I werewe were like park somewhere, and he
was like, I gotta pee,and then like it was an hour and

(01:12:49):
I went to go do it,like go, you know, find him,
and then I found him and thenyou know, he was killing the
one. And then she had helpbecause there was like to help. There
was like high heel prints, andshe had gone back and they went with
her to the scene and it hadbeen so long that they can't even prove

(01:13:10):
when those high heel prints went there. Yeah I had to help, and
then yeah I had to do this, and then yeah, it's just not
very much, but they didn't haveenough evidence to correct to prove what she's
saying was true exactly, Like theycould do some stuff, but what they
could prove was just very circumstantial andthey couldn't get him on that. So

(01:13:30):
no, and who knows, Okay, say that she did know who the
phantom was, she could just betrying to frame him too. So does
she have a brother, a friend, a lover on the side that she's
trying to cover four And they're like, well, they already have le on
you know, car thievery like,why not just throw murder on top of
it and cover my other person overhere? Um, there is a book

(01:13:53):
called The Phantom Killer, Unlocking theMystery of the tex Arcanis Cereal Murders,
the Story of a Town in Terror, which won shortened that goddamn book name
that is way too long. Butit's like the definitive book that apparently really
lays out how Yule was responsible forthis. So there could be a lot
more detail that we did not comeacross. Now, the second most popular

(01:14:15):
person of interest is HB. DutyTennyson. Now. HB was a freshman
at the University of Arkansas and hewas just eighteen years old when his body
was found on November fifth, nineteenforty eight. He had pointed himself or
poisoned himself with mercury cyanide. Hedid put the cops on this kind of
scavenger hunt, basically by leaving onenote that led them to a pen that

(01:14:36):
had held clues to a combination ofa lockbox. In the box, they
find a suicide note in which hesays the reason that he killed himself was
because he killed Betty Joe Booker,and Paul Martin and Virgil Stark and he
tried to kill Katie. Let's alsokeep in mind that he would have been
sixteen at the time these murders tookplace. So I'm not really sure how

(01:14:57):
you're going to come across as athirty year old man, you know,
when the first attacks. But sure, yeah, so he told her to
run one way or not another.Yeah, yeah, like yeah, no
shit, that way, go thatway, yeah, sixteen year old,
Yes, there's no fucking way.There's no way. So this man even
so far as to write headlines forwhen his own body was found, and
he typed them up with a typewriter. He also had a sign that said,

(01:15:21):
quote do not disturb death in themaking. He even went so far
as to write his own epitaph,which hashtag goals personally, but that's beyond
the point and it ride a quote. Here lies HB. Tennison born February
twelfth, nineteen thirty died October two, nineteen forty eight. He committed suicide
for the happiness of his family.May he rest in peace? Amen?

(01:15:44):
So yeah. Solid Sheriff W.E. Davis and the Bowie Sheriff Bill
Pressley were surprised at his confession becausethey are working on this case for years
and he had never come up inconnection to this whatsoever, right at all.
They did take the Prince of Tennyson, of course, to compare to
the killer. I don't think itmatched anything. And to me, it

(01:16:05):
just sounds like he was a troubledyoung man and for some reason he decided
that in his note that he shoulduse the murders as his reasoning for taking
his life. Right, And therewas another note that was found basically saying,
hey, ignore everything else, I'mlooking for a reason for what I'm
doing. I'm not happy or myfamily would be happier if I wasn't here.

(01:16:28):
Kind of thing it does sound likehe did get into some sort of
trouble with the law. But Idon't think it was murder. I don't
think or it wasn't these murders.I don't really know. But as far
as we would later see, waszodiac. There were so many just random
suspects that really don't work or neverconnected to anything related to this, And
it was just a lot of peoplesaying that they had committed the murders when

(01:16:49):
in one opinion, of course,the psychologist said that they did not think
that anyone knew that this person wasdoing or the most basic fact of this
person probably wouldn't say any thing.However, then, you know, I
think Gonzalez went on the record tosay that, like, oh, someone
probably does know something because this personwould talk. So it's kind of at

(01:17:09):
odds with what would happen again becausewe don't know, And it was like
again, Cereal murders weren't a thingat that time, so who knows,
like what would have They can't reallyjudge the same way as we could maybe
now right, you know, butit's been over seventy years since this murder
spree has happened, and we're probablynever going to know who did it?
Right at this point, like unlesssome genealogy testing comes through, like which

(01:17:32):
I don't know how it would becausebesides this semen, there isn't even semen,
Like there's nothing at all to connectto this person to it because you
can only really judge them off theirfingerprints and that's only to that one person,
right, So, like, howdo you get to know with you?

(01:17:53):
So not to text our Canda Moonlightmurders? So I have two subspects.
Yeah, oh, go for it, Okay, I'm glad. Okay.
So there's one where his name wasRalph b Brenham bren Man. Now
he'll go with that one, okay. So on um May twenty third,
nineteen forty six, twenty one,he was Air Force. Um, he

(01:18:17):
said. Okay. He's like hecomes up and he's like, hey,
yo, look I think I'm Ithink I'm the fandom killer, and they're
okay, mind you how old didI just say? Twenty one twenty four?
Okay? Okay? Yeah, soyeah, yeah, not matching any
of the descriptions that sure, Okay, Okay. Strike one he's like,

(01:18:39):
listen, I've been in a comafor a while, and they're like,
uh, huh okay, and hegoes, I just got out and I've
been doing a running around and Ithink I did some bad shit. Is
he trying to edgin us? Idon't know, I think so. They
were like, I don't, Idon't think so. I think you're okay,

(01:19:00):
and he's like, listen, Idon't think I killed anybody. Like
I don't, like in my consciousmind, I haven't killed anybody, but
I think I think I killed him. I think I'm the phantom killer.
Like I've gone around and he washitchhiking around and everything, and he was
like, he's like hospital, hehas never been in that part of town.

(01:19:23):
When he said, there's nothing tolink him. He was not even
like one hundred two hundred miles fromthis town. Okay when this happened,
he just woke up and he waslike, I meant it's me, It's
it's it's I'm the one. Um, I'm the one. Yeah. So

(01:19:45):
after after them like kind of basicallysaying okay, no, um that there's
there's no way that you could dothis. Uh, they finally like let
him go. They found they founddoubt that he was dismissed from the army
or from the air Force. Excuseme for being psycho neurotic. Uh sorry,

(01:20:09):
I shouldn't laugh with that, butcontinue, Yeah, no you couldn't,
you can't. And then that's it. They were like okay, even
the military was like, we're notfucking with this. No, thank you
had it. He was like apoint blank shot too, and that was
another thing. They were like,okay, so you like meant to shoot
her in the chin, and hewas like no, I was in a

(01:20:32):
coma. And they were like,but you're a point blank shot, correct,
And that's like also that shits musclememory too, to a certain extent
obviously, but I'm conscious. Imean, I'll give you maybe the sniper
part correct, but I mean itwas rifle, but it was a rifle
exactly, like I could go withour theory like that. But no,

(01:20:54):
so I mean, after thank you, next after talking to him, they
were like, can't be you so, And they did have another suspect um
it was a blackmail. He wasactually in his thirties. Now I heard
two different um. They call himthe hypnotized and the polygraph suspect. Because
he was like hypnotize me. Theywere like, oh, okay, okay,

(01:21:17):
and so they hypnotized him and likeI thought, wasn't gonna hold up
anywhere. So they were like,no, well, what happened. I
heard two things. I heard thathe was like there was a murder thing
that he was he was maybe likea suspect before. But then I heard
another one that he was having anaffair with a married lady. And back

(01:21:39):
in the forties, like that waslike, oh my goodness, you know,
a black man having an affair witha married woman is just right total
taboo. So he got super nervousand kind of like confessed to this one
and I don't it doesn't even makesense, but um yeah. Then he

(01:22:00):
tried to confess to it and theywere like, no, how okay,
I'm sorry he didn't confess to it. No, he wasn't confessed to it.
They tried to like say it washim, but then like they had
no other evidence um on him becauseand then they were trying to get him
to take or that he did takea polygraph test, and he did take

(01:22:21):
that, but he failed it andhe was nervous and that's why. Sorry,
I got that. I got thatbackwards. So he got nervous and
they were like, all right,well you failed the test, and he
was like, all right, soI'm maybe have an affair. That's what
I'm nervous about. So that's whatI'm nervous about. I don't want to
get. But not only that,you don't even basically you have the wrong
man and da da da da dad. And they were like, oh okay,

(01:22:43):
basically yeah, they were like,nope, you have the art.
He was like, no, it'sit's definitely not me. He's not.
He wasn't like the other guy thatwas like, hey, I was in
a coma. That is wild tome. The coma one was my favorite.
That is just did he not considerthat like caretakers or the nurses would
know if he had left, Likehe can't just be in a coma in

(01:23:05):
his house. No, he wasin a coma. He was out,
he got out, and then hewas he went through this town, heard
about all this stuff. And hewas like, listen, I was in
a coma for a while and thenI could have done some bad stuff.
Okay, so where did you getthe guns if you have in a coma?
Like no, he's thinking like,okay, I was in a coma.
I don't have I don't have amemory of anything like I think I
did this on Lake Up. Ithink that, and I think that they

(01:23:30):
this kid and that was obviously it'sa suspect, and it's a story where
I think they met amnesia. Ithink he had a sense of amnesia,
and I think that's where that wastrying to go. Yeah, because that
would I see, Yes, Icould see more amnesia where he had it
like he did. The murders hadan accident and then listen, I was

(01:23:51):
in a coma and then like Icame out and like I don't remember anything.
No, sorry, sir, notit. So you were not the
one. So those were the twosuspects that I was like, that's that's
kind of funny. Like they triedto plan it, like where they were
just trying to plan it. Theywere like you and the guy was like,
nope, not me, just havingan affair the other way, but

(01:24:14):
the other way. I'm sorry,I break up with their tomorrow, goodbye.
I'm sorry about that. Listen,I'm not totally moral. I'm having
an affair. But I definitely didn'tanyone. Yeah, so right, didn't
murder anyone more of the adult trueyeah, like type of not you know,
definitely did that but I didn't.That's all you can get me for,
but only on commandment two. Yeah, I haven't really moved forward,

(01:24:35):
don't really want to because this ismy limit, my line. Thank you.
They said, love thy neighbor,and that's what I did. So
what's the issue. I don't understand. Why are you mad at me?
I don't understand exactly. So,yeah, those were those were my two
subspects they like. Honestly, thebackground on him was literally that it was

(01:24:56):
so short, but it was thefunniest. I like the co one guy,
even though it's not him. Ikind of wanted to be the case
where there's this, like this personin Acoma doing murders. I know when
these were I mean he was one. I'm pretty sure he was like almost
in the military when one of thesewas going on, Okay, then the
other ones, like you know,he wasn't even same state. Nice solid

(01:25:24):
shit. Well, I feel likethis week, I feel like I was
out of my groove with this one. Like nope, talking wise, So
hopefully we'll be better next week.Welcome to us getting into the groove of
this again after only ale. It'sonly a couple of weeks, but still
it feels like a longer time,but in the meantime, you can follow

(01:25:44):
us in social media or Instagram isBoozy blonde pod Our, Twitter is at
Boozy Blondes. You can email usBoozy Blondes at gmail dot com. For
the love of God, email usstory ideas because we could use them.
You can like us on Facebook BlondeBooze and a bullshite and don't forget to
black you to worse. If you'regoing to tap it, wrap it

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