April 20, 2024 • 37 mins
We all have that mind-thumping experience that changes us. It either changes us for the better or perhaps worse, and in some cases can force us to walk away or quit. Conversely, at the other end of the spectrum, we use that experience to not only change our lives but others as well. Today we get enlightened by Dr. Brandi Baldwin, diversity equity and inclusion (DE&I) guru. "Dr. Brandi" used her life-altering DE&I experience to not only change other's lives but to become a sought-after influencer who impacts the world. Join Dr. B & Eddy Gee as we get schooled on DE&I by one of the world's most impactful influencers on the topic. Dr. Brandi's insights and teachings produce results that are synonymous with the positive social change productive DE&I creates. Dr. Brandi also shares her personal perspectives and tips for succeeding in life in general; this is can't-miss, real-world, and life-changing fodder that you will enjoy!!!
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Uh, hey, wanting to thebook at that radio show. I'm doctor
Robert Benson. As always, beforewe get started, we're going to say
(00:22):
thank you to Jehovah. Thank youfor our for our families, taking for
work, and our ability to dothe things we're able to do. Book
at that radio show. And I'mhanging out with my main man, Eddie.
What's up Eddie? What's up?Sir? How are you feeling today?
I'm doing great. I'm waiting foryou to say something about me or
something crazy. What is it?Come on, I'll go to be good
today. A classy guest today,You're gonna like you got class because we
(00:46):
got a classy guest. That's right, yes, sir. Okay, Well,
speaking of class and classic guests,we're going to talk to a person
who is a champion of a classyissue, and that's diversity. A champion,
a pure champion of diver We havewith us today, doctor Brandy Ball
and doctor Baldwin. What's happening withyou today? Talk to us. Let
me tell you, I'm excited.I'm excited to be here. I think
(01:07):
we might be cutting up a littlebit, but I am excited for the
discussion. So let's get into it. Yeah, yeah, Hey, So
how on earth did you become achampion of diversity? Obviously there was an
experience or some something happened that waslitmus that changed your life around and made
you the champion about diversity that youare. Please share that with us and
(01:30):
you got the mic talk to us. Okay, sure, So you know
what. My journey into the diversityand equity and inclusion space is unique in
that I started off doing professional developmentworkshops, primarily because I was starting off
as an entrepreneur trying to figure outwhat to do. I remember being in
(01:51):
grad school and one of my advisorssaid, no, one's going to hire
you to be a corporate consultant,which is the track that I wanted to
be on, because you're too young, you don't have enough job experience.
And at the time, the modelfor corporate consultants was typically a male,
maybe a female, but mostly menthat had worked maybe thirty forty years in
corporate America, retired and then becamea consultant, and typically it was a
(02:15):
white male. Nothing wrong with that, but that was the model at the
time. So we're talking, youknow, fifteen, a little bit over
fifteen years ago. I'm just like, I'm going to be a consultant,
you know, And they were like, sit down, ten years ago.
You in high school, weren't you. No, No, I'll be forty
this year. Whoa, Yeah,yes, I have a teenage daughter.
(02:38):
She just passed her permit driving toI got a lot of stuff going on
over here. But I got Shaybutter you know back, don't it now?
They so I started doing these workshopsand as they got more popular,
companies used to start to bring mein for the millennials. That's how it
(03:00):
started. They said, oh mygosh, this this thing that you do
and everything you're talking about, doyou do that for young professionals. And
at the time, that was thatniche demographic, that was that group that
organizations recognized were different, right,So back in the day and DEI is
not new, it was like multicultural. There were so many different names,
(03:23):
right that we used to call DEI. That was the yeah, And that
was the time when I kind ofgot in that space organically where they said,
hey, we have certain segments ofour workforce and your message we think
can apply. Long story short,as we know, the millennial generation is
(03:44):
about that life when it comes todiversity and inclusion and what they want to
see in their workplace. They reallyhave been at the helm of pushing that.
And so full circle moment, asI kind of got my reps up,
got more experience and things of thatnature, naturally those same organizations would
say, can you come back andspeak to our other kind of niche groups.
This is when ergs started to becomepopular, and so our veterans,
(04:09):
our young professionals, our black employeeresource group. And since then I've had
an opportunity to work in terms ofa DEI space for companies like Google,
like the federal government, pharmaceutical companies, and you name it for that DEI
piece. So it's been great.Being a champion for DEI is very challenging,
(04:31):
I'll say that because my approach reallyis accountability and upholding the standards of
diversity, equity and inclusion. Andso I don't play any games and I
call people up. I don't callthem out, but I call them higher
when they're talking a good game butmaybe not in alignment with their actions.
(04:55):
Let me ask you a question aboutthat. It's a very interesting point you
mentioned, because we're talking about diversityand inclusion. Me I see it as
counterintuitive on some levels, because whenyou're trying to include someone, you end
up excluding someone else or another population. What are your thoughts on that and
what do you think or have younoticed that there is a population or demographic
that's been excluded or or minimize onsome levels. Well, here's the thing.
(05:19):
So the organizations that do a greatjob are truly inclusionary, okay,
And that means that they are honoringthe D, the E, and the
I in every aspect of its meaning. And I'm cool with that. But
I find that the clients that usuallycall out, you know, for assistance
(05:40):
for me, are the ones thatare in that in between space where they
value diversity, equity inclusion. Theywant to be inclusive, but maybe their
approach has actually been exclusionary, sothey'll do things like sit their white employees,
for example, in a professional developmentpresentation on unconscious buy and the presenter
(06:01):
is pretty much making it seem likethe only people who have biases in the
audience are the white professionals and everyoneelse doesn't have that, you know.
So I've seen the execution of DEIprograms definitely be exclusionary, and I think
that that is why I have gainedpopularity with some and maybe others that don't
really like my approach, because ifyou're going to do D, E and
(06:27):
I, then we're going to honorthe D, the E, and the
I. If you're not, thenjust say that you're only focused on one
specific aspect. Say that we're justdoing racial equity work, Say that we're
just doing disability work, or what. Say that. Don't say D,
E and I as a catchment foryour strategy. If you're really only focusing
on what, make it plain,make it clear. And I'm very particular
(06:50):
about that, but you're right,it can be exclusionary and kind of counterintuitive
to the whole premise. And that'swhy I think that it gets a bad
rap sometimes and rightly so, fromlots of folks who are picking up on
that component and maybe seeing organizations notdo their best at in execution. A
(07:14):
quick question on that. When youhave corporations that approach you, do you
find that there's different situations where theeffort is genuine or the effort is forced,
And can you tell the difference ordoes that make a difference in your
approach of solving their problem. Itdoesn't make a difference in my approach,
(07:39):
but it does make a difference ifthey get past word go with me and
my firm. So here's the thing. They come into good or you have
client A Client B. Client Ais fumbling around, they're making mistakes,
but they're humble enough to say,we don't know what the heck we're doing,
doctor Brandy. We need some guidance. And I tell organizations you might
as well stay still, then gofast in the wrong direction, just pause
(08:03):
instead of trying to throw spaghetti atthe wall. Those organizations are the clients
that I have the best results with, and they're appreciative because they were humble
enough to be honest about their gaps. And you know, we can have
that accountability relationship. Right when Igo to my lawyer, I don't want
my lawyer to spare my feelings.I want my lawyer to say, you
got some risks in this area.When I go to my financial right,
(08:24):
I want my financial advisor to say, there is a little risky behavior over
here. We got to tighten thatup. That's the consultant that I am,
an approach that I take. Thenyou got client B that comes in,
says doctor Brandy, we are onehundred and fifty percent on this DEI
thing, And we just really wouldlove someone to come in and just help
us do unconscious bias training. Andwe understand that the white people in our
(08:46):
organization are really the major part ofthe problem, and we understand that black
people will never have an opportunity tobe their best. So we just need
you to come in and help usreally make make up a program anything you
want to do so that the blackemployees can just right to the top.
We're actually they do this spill rightand then I'm like, wait a minute,
(09:09):
hold up, do you have data? Did you do an assessment?
Do you know about the EEOC?You can't just hire a handful of black
and brown people just you know,we don't you know, you know,
And those are the organizations that ninetimes out of ten they don't even make
it past go. But if they'resavvy enough and they slip under my radar
(09:31):
and kind of switch up later,I'll be honest, I usually wind up
firing them. And every year Ifired organization. I posted on LinkedIn probably
a year and a half ago,but I fired an organization sixty three thousand
dollars contract by thank you. It'sbeen great, Nah and matter of fact,
we'll give you a refund back becauseyou're playing and at the end of
(09:52):
the day, the reputation that youremployees are connected to your company. You
know, we can't play behind thescenes and do this work. And so
it's challenging dealing with leaders, dealingwith egos, and it's a sensitive topic,
especially when politics sometimes can seep intothis kind of DEI space, very
(10:15):
challenging work, but I'll tell youright now that the people that are serious,
even if they're not perfect, inthe long run, they actually make
great strides in this area. Usine. Hey, well, that's a great
piece and great information. But ofcourse we got to take a quick break
and we're going to come back andfinish picking the brain of doctor Brandy Baldwin
(10:37):
this book. At that radio show, I'm hanging up with my may man
Aig and we're being enlightened by thegreat doctor Brandy Baldwin. We'll be right
back. See why. Listeners fromover one hundred and fifty countries around the
world follow the book Up Dad Radioshow join doctor Robert Benson and Eddie g
as they chat with special guests whoshare their stories and information that will change
(10:58):
your life. Watch and listen onLife and Spirit online dot com, or
subscribe to the Book of Dad RadioShow on Apple Podcast, Spotify, iHeartRadio,
or wherever you get your podcast.Brought to you Bob the NASCA Network.
(11:18):
Hey, everybody, welcome back tothe Book of Dad Radio Show with
Doctor Robert Benson and me at egAnd today we have the fabulous doctor Brandy
Baldwin who is schooling us on DEIletting us know really what goes on behind
the scenes, and we appreciate herfor that. And I wanted to finish
up. The reason I asked youthat question earlier was I used to work
(11:43):
for the power company in Philadelphia andthis was one of my first jobs,
was back in blah blah eighty something, right, And the reason I was
able to get hired is because thatcompany, it was a large corporate company,
but they were being sued for diversity. Right. So as you've laid
(12:05):
uh mentioned to their result are there. The way they wanted to approach it
was, well, we'll just goout in the community, we'll test some
people, we'll hire a bunch ofblack people and everything will be okay,
right, And that's what they did. I mean, that was good for
me. I'll take that right,I'll take the black check. But that
(12:31):
that's what was interesting to me whenyou talked about companies that really aren't sincere
about what they're doing. And Iguess it comes back to haunt them in
the long run, because it hasto work on both sides, as you
said. So, I just wantedto know about your current journey. You
(12:54):
know, I follow you on sinceh social media and everything ever since you've
I met you years ago and Iwatched your progress because you're a positive leader,
You're entrepreneur and that's the kind ofpeople that we love to talk to
here. And you put a postup about a situation that you had at
(13:16):
the workplace. So let's let's heara little bit about that. Oh okay,
so let me give you an overview. We all know twenty twenty George
Floyd happened and I got a callfrom a colleague saying, Hey, as
you know, I am, youknow, high up in the tourism and
hospitality industry. We have a consortiumof leaders that are getting together from all
(13:41):
types of organizations. We're talking thetop organizations and tourism hospitality. So this
organization and the board you know haspeople from Marriott, Kipton Hotel's, Carnival
Cruises, everything in the middle right, and would you like to be a
part of this? We really thinkthat we need some young blood, you
know, to be truthful, weneed, you know, some millennial energy.
And you're in the DEI space aswell, so you know, and
(14:03):
this is kind of a startup venture. You're you're an entrepreneur. Would you
like to be on the founding afounding member on the executive committee? I
said yes, say less, I'mthere, had served on this organization since
then, and the end of twentytwenty two, the CEO and that same
individual, the executive director at thetime, said you know what, we
(14:26):
really think you would be great asthe board chair going into twenty twenty three.
I'm like, who me? Youknow? They love me, they
really love me, And I thought, I'll be honest. I had a
moment when I thought the people onthis board were talking about the top CEOs
and tourism from California all the wayto the East coast. So I was
(14:50):
thinking, initially, I'm not qualified. How the heck, you know,
did I even get an opportunity?But god, you know, and I
can't figure it out, I'm goingto attributed to the Lord. So I
said, you know, you're goingto step into this role and you're going
to do your best, and whynot. You know it's not you then
who started in twenty twenty three andthis individual started to onboard me let me
(15:13):
know the priorities of the organization,thinks of that nature, and said,
you know what, you're going tobe the new faith we have. We're
going to work together. You know, we're really gonna we have these ideas
on things that we can do.And I'll be honest about ninety days in.
Once I got my footing, onceI understood what my vision was going
to be and how I would approachmy tenure as board chair of the organization,
(15:37):
he no longer could sort of bethe person behind the person. And
I think that as that transitioned andI was stepping really into the full power
of my role and the authority thatI had being the highest ranking member of
the organization, I think that that'swhere our professional relationship shifted. Over the
next several months of twenty twenty three, I experienced being yelled, debt on
(16:00):
zoom calls, being braided, beingdemeaned. I would speak to board members
about like feedback, what can wedo to improve the organization. I would
take those ideas back to this individualand be told I don't want to hear
another thing from anything that the boardwants to do. They need to cut
a check, that's what they needto do. I don't have to be
here. I'm not doing any extrawork. I'm not doing like so you
(16:22):
and the board like you can gogo somewhere, you know, And I
was like, wait a minute,haccer, you know, And so for
me, I said, you knowwhat, I know this individual has a
lot of responsibilities. They're stressed.I started to make excuses. And so
for anyone listening who has been ina toxic work environment and things of that
nature, that's ten what we tendto do. And I saw I was
(16:44):
making excuses. It didn't feel good. Fast forward, I said, you
know what, let me check inwith the CEO because I think this pattern
is becoming a pattern. I don'tlike it. And so I went to
the CEO. I said, hey, you know, I'm thinking I got
the smoking gun. I'm like,wait TOI a lot, tell all you
know I got my I know,yell, dad, I got time to
day, the inflection of tone forthe yell listen, I told the CEO.
(17:07):
The CEO didn't flinch. The CEOsaid, we already know. We
previously have hired a coach because hiscommunication style, and he's rubbed out.
I said, wait a minute,I'm late to the party. You already
know. He said, you knowwhat we're gonna do. We're gonna meet
with this individual. We're gonna meetto bring your notes, and we're gonna
let him know. You know,I'm not putting up with this, and
he knows better than to treat methat way. So the fact he's doing
it to you, and I thinkthe CEO was genuine and sincere. But
(17:30):
we got into the meeting, Iaired out all the notes that I collected
on the individual, thinking that wewere doing some real accountability. The CEO
actually had his talking points as well. But when the meeting concluded, the
behavior got worse. So that wasa signal to me that the CEO really
doesn't have power. That whatever theyhad going on, or whatever information one
(17:51):
had on the other, or whateverthe dynamic was. I thought, when
the CEO, when you don't pipedown in a meeting with the CEO and
the board chair that tells you thatthere's something else going on. The end
of the year came and they askedme to continue. They said, please
stay on his board chair, andI pretty much said, I can't do
this for mental health reasons. Ican't be on this individual's hit list anymore.
(18:11):
I haven't seen a change in thebehavior. I was literally going to
bow out gracefully and go on aboutmy business. And I remember seeing the
headline with doctor Antoinette Bailey, whocommitted suicide as a higher ed leader earlier
in January because of alleged workplace bullyingat the hands of her boss. And
(18:36):
when I read that article, itreminded me of the things I was dealing
with. So I felt in myspirit that the Lord said, if you
don't say anything, the blood ison your hands. So any woman or
person that comes up after you inthis role, the experience is his poor
behavior. It's going to be onyou because your values are such that you
need to speak out. So Iwrote a letter to the board saying,
(18:57):
unfortunately, just you all know,because you probably don't know why I'm not
continuing as a board chair. Thisis the reason why. Here goes some
receipts because y'all not going to tryto make me out to be a liar.
He goes some emails and some receipts. The CEO has known about this
and hasn't done his part. Andthis is how God works. I sent
(19:17):
this on Monday, January fifteenth,MLK day silence on Tuesday, I didn't
hear anything. I said, Oh, I mean child, we now?
Oh what happy? Something told meon Wednesday. By Wednesday, I said,
you know what. I remember ayoung lady that used to work with
him years ago. Never heard hersay anything bad about him. They were
(19:37):
like peas in a pod. SoI said, hey, I sent to
text my sage. Hey person,it's me doctor Brandy. Is it's still
your number because I hadn't spoken toher since before the pandemic, probably five
six years. And a couple hourslater she responded, Hey, doctor Brandy,
it is me. How are you. Oh my gosh, I said,
weird question, but I literally havebeen working with SO AND's so for
(20:00):
the last year. It was horrific. I never heard you say anything negative
about him? What was your experience? And she said, oh my gosh,
I can't believe he's still behaving thatway. She sent me a long
text message with her experience and anotherwoman's name who had the same issue.
I said, have her reach outto me if she's willing. This young
lady reached out to me and shehad the name of another person she worked
(20:25):
with they had the same experience.By Friday that same with January fifteen,
we still on mlkday. By thatFriday, I had eight names of other
women who over the last decade hehad treated the exact same way, And
so it shifted everything. I didn'tknow them from a can of paint.
And over three weeks we got togetherand wrote an open letter to the tourism
hospitality industry to share our collective storiesdealing with this one person. The reason
(20:51):
why we did that is because theseother young ladies spoke to HR, they
spoke to their leaders, they spoketo other CEOs, and nothing ever happened.
With me being the highest ranking memberof this organization, nothing ever happened.
So we said, you know what, for our healing, we're going
to put it out there. We'renot calling for resignations. We don't want
anyone to de terminating. This isabout our journey and shedding light on darkness,
(21:14):
and I reached out before. Iwas so nervous because I was kind
of like spearheading this group the daybefore we put the letter out. Y'all
get an exclusive right now. Telly'all okay, so let me tell you,
(21:37):
I said, just to make sure, and actually one of the other
women in the group said, youknow, we want to operate in the
highest level of integrity. Reach outto them because when I sent that original
letter, they sparked. It sparkedan investigation. They allegedly investigation which was
a sham, you know, whateverfor another day, another another story.
So I said, okay, Sothe Monday, it was coming up on
(22:02):
like three days and it would havebeen like a month since the original letter.
I'm like, what's going on.I reached out to them. I
said, Hi, I participated inyour investigation and spoke with your lawyer and
gave them all the details and likethat, I haven't heard anything. It
was such a sense of urgency foryou know, we're going to do an
investigation on your allegations, doctor Brandy. I said, I haven't heard anything,
so I just want to double checkto just see what the status is.
And da da da da, theysend me a nice little terse email
(22:23):
back saying the investigation is active andongoing. We have no idea when it
will conclude, and you will knowwhen we when we get the information back.
So I said, okay, Italked to the ladies. I said,
we're going to release the letter tomorrowsin since they don't know when ever.
It can be seven years, it'sgoing to be you know what I
mean, it's going to be twentyfive years. And listen, let me
(22:47):
tell you that letter came out oneday, the news picked it up,
I think maybe Wednesday, Thursday.The letter came out, the media picked
it up the next day or so, and he was terminated within right.
I said, oh man, that'sto get you concluded. Interesting what timing
right? What cause three days agoit was active and ongoing and we didn't
(23:08):
know if it was going to bethe you know, the steward of solar
eclipse. We didn't know when itwas going to happen. So the executive
director was terminated, lost a couplepositions on some rolls, and the CEO
stepped down and they are now ona pause from doing any new work with
any clients. This is the lastthing I'll say in like ten seconds to
(23:29):
kind of put a pen in this. This is what we have to understand
about DEI. When you have aconsultant or when you're doing it on your
own, it doesn't matter. Takecare of your home first. Take care
of your house first. The purposeof me bringing it up early on to
say, hey, mag mean meanmean. First of all, we are
a DEI nonprofit allegedly in the tourismindustry. But it was for us to
(23:52):
get our house in order. Andwhen you don't get your own house in
order, this is what happens.Anyway, You still get publicly, you
know, shames. Unfortunately, youknow, your dirty laundry gets aired out
anyway. People lose their roles,you lose credibility, You can't take on
new clients when all you had todo was really hold one individual accountable for
(24:14):
being exclusionary and spoiler alert, thiswas not a white man. This was
a black man. Wow, Wowit was you know, so you know
it's not so monolithic and so youknow black and white, no pun intended.
When we see about d I,if their nuances to creating a productive
and constructive workplace that I think needto be addressed well. First of all,
(24:38):
we're not done with you. Wehave more to get to on the
other side. So, and you'reabsolutely right, dealing with diversity is not
necessarily dealing with racial issues, justdealing with gender issues and other demographics as
well that are different. But whenwe come back, I want you to
think about something to address on theother side. Ed mentioned something about recruiting
(25:00):
efforts. I'd like to know ifyou personally feel or think that diversity is
better handled through recruitment or through culturalmassaging, if you will on the other
side, the spook at that radioshow, I'm a doctor Robert Benson and
Eddie and I are overwhelmed with theknowledge and professionalism with doctor Baldwin and we're
going to finish with her when weget back. We'll be right back.
(25:22):
You have something special, you havegreatness in you. Hello, I'm Less
Brown, missus, Mamie Brown's babyboy. I want you to spread the
word to your family members and friendsto listen to Less Brown Greatness Radio dot
com. Absolutely, and let meshare with you why we're going to be
focusing on positive things. Because whateveryou focus on the longest becomes the strongest.
(25:45):
And now more than ever, whenthe suicide rate has increased over thirty
three percent, when the suicide rateof young children between five and eleven has
doubled. People feeling hopeless and stressedout and powerless. We need programming that
can bring out the greatness in them, and that's what we will be focused
(26:07):
on. When you listen, itwill be an experience that will transform your
life. Let's Brown Greatness Radio dotcom. That's my story and I'm sticking
to it. Hey, and we'reright back, doctor Robert Benson with the
Book of Dad Radio Show audioce gN Doctor Baldwin. She's going to be
our new co host because she hasa wealthy knowledge and she can be the
(26:30):
new Book of Dad radio Show person. You know what I mean. We
can't afford her. Okay, shedidn't say. She didn't say. She
didn't say, y'all can she said, okay, y'all got the friend of
(26:52):
the family discount for sure. Rightwhen we left off, I was trying
to get her. I want toget her or if we can to share
what the audience, the approach hehas me. I see this as a
dichotomy. If you will, ifyou're trying to address diversity, do you
try to address diversity diversity through recruitmentand bringing in the right people into the
(27:14):
organization as it talked about when heworked for the company he worked four years
ago, or deal with diversity fromwithin what your incumbent employees me. I'm
a federal employee, so I understandjust how hard and concerted the efforts are
to address just that, because youknow, the federal government supposed to be
reflective of the people who it represents, representative bureacracy, if you will.
(27:37):
But that and with that being thefoundation, talk to us a little bit
more about how you approach the dichotomy. Is there a prefer one that you
prefer over the other or is itsomething that you think can be done in
concert. Well, my background andtraining is an organizational development, right,
so when you think about diversity,equity and inclusion, I see that as
(27:59):
one aspect of developing your organization.Maybe it's an employee employee engagement, right.
There are so many different things programs, learning, and development, So
it's a part of that piece forme. And so that being said,
it's multifaceted. What about your recruitingand your talent pipeline? You know,
what about your programming and your professionaldevelopment? Not just on technical skills,
(28:21):
but also on how you are trainingpeople to interact with each other, especially
those who are different generationally, culturally, and every other DEI dimension. What
about your suppliers, are you,you know, supporting small businesses and diverse
businesses with your supplier diversity strategy?What about your board? Right? So,
I think that it's a multifaceted approach. And because I'm more so bonafide
(28:45):
organizational development and systems and strategic planning, that's really my training, what it
has been, and how I've appliedit to building businesses as an entrepreneur,
but also consulting with companies. That'sthe approach that I take, which means,
let's assess your entire system, yourentire organization, and let's see where
the hotspots are. So I willengage with clients sometimes and they'll come in
(29:07):
and say, we need workshops,workshops, workshops on treating how to treat
people fairly and this and that,and then I'll say, well, let's
the data says, but actually youhave too many nice managers. And this
sounds counterintuitive, but your managers areso nice. They don't hold people accountable.
They allow someone who's not doing theirjob to work right next to the
person that's going above and beyond,and they've never gotten a write up at
(29:30):
all. So what you need isa conflict management course, equitable communications,
equitable management to help your managers understandhow to address the things they don't want
to address because it's perpetuating inequity inyour organization. They go, what we
thought we just had to have somethingabout, you know, race or gender,
and a lot of times there areother more subtle things happening that still
(29:53):
are part of DEI. So Ialways say DEI doesn't feel as DEI as
you think it does. If you'redoing it right, if you are kind
of keeping it on surface and maybeeven performing, it's going to feel like
race, race, gender, gender, gender, race, race, disability,
race, race all the time.And it's a lot more subtle part
of building a positive and functional companyculture. You know, that's very interesting
(30:17):
you mentioned that because I had saidit was a dichotomy, and obviously it
encompasses many things. And that leadsme to pick your brain a little bit
further and ask you, how doyou go in there? What are you
using surveys? Are you at conductinginterviews before you go in and actually decide
what you're going to do. Whatis your your your step one to assist
an organization and taking that taking thatprocess on. So the first step is
(30:41):
just like when you go to adoctor. You're like, doc, I
got this pain right here. They'relike, Okay, tell me about it.
What's going on? Okay, we'regonna run some blood work. Let's
just do that first, right.So I take that holistic approach, tell
me what you think is going on. I'm going to write those notes.
Then I'm going to listen with myexpert ears. I'm gonna get a sense
(31:02):
for probably what's really going on.I usually don't tell them early on,
and to check both of our perceptions, We're going to do an organizational equity
assessment, and that data is goingto support us in figuring out what's going
on in four dimensions leadership and managementand company culture and professional development and policies
and procedures. So it'll let usknow in the back end what's really going
(31:26):
on, where the hotspots are,where the smoke is, so that we
can make sure no fires break out, and that helps to reconcile our understanding
and we go from there. Nowat that point, sometimes clients will go,
oh, no, we don't wantto deal with that. We uncovered
something that we're not really ready todeal with, so can we just do
something else? And then I sayno, we give them their strategy and
what their steps should be, butwe will not move forward and execute something
(31:48):
that they actually don't need just foroptics. And then most of the time
they'll they'll be grateful to move forwardand start to chip away at that plan.
You know, you said one more, you said one thing, give
me a second, just a second, and you said one thing that really
resonates with me, and you talkedabout the person who performs versus the person
who doesn't. That's something that Inever thought about being a part of a
(32:10):
diversity issue. If you will,how do you see that being a diversity
issue. Well, here's the thing. Think about a performance. It's about
on stage, everything that you see, versus what's happening behind the scenes with
the stage crew and all the logistics. So what you'll find is it's easy
to perform. It's way easier tojust make things look good. What does
(32:31):
that look like? Sometimes it lookslike these perpetual monthly cultural acknowledgments. So
February that History Month. Oh youcan't wait because with the Blacks they'll get
another chance. June teenth's coming uptoo, also Women's History Month. You
know. So those are easy thingsto do. They're on the surface,
a lot of workshops, a lotof training, a lot of talking and
(32:51):
panels that could be very performative becauseit's front end. On the back end,
though, sometimes I'll tell our clients, hey, I know they want
to workshop. I know everyone's choppingit the bit to figure out what the
heck's going on with our DEE strategy, Doctor Brandy. First of all,
your managers need training, your leadershipneeds training, your board needs training.
We're not going to perform for anybodyuntil I make sure that all of the
(33:15):
key leaders are in alignment with DEIpractices and principles. Your policies need auditing.
Until the audit is done, we'renot going to do any shiny workshops
for all staff because so those aresome of the back end things that really
is a strong foundation. So it'sthe difference between like interior decorating or do
you want to make sure you're plumbingand your electric works. I want to
make sure you're plumbing and your electricworks because we can go Ikea and get
(33:38):
some new furniture for this house atany time. The companies typically do the
opposite. Yeah, well, Ithink that highlights for some people how important
DEI is to the operation of thecorporation as well. And when it gets
deep into the weeds, you're talkingabout affecting margins, you're talking about affecting
(34:02):
production, all those things, itall works together. And a lot of
times you have corporations that don't seethat not that ties them together, and
they just look at it, asyou said, as a cultural thing,
and they don't recognize the power andthe knowledge of some of the different diverse
(34:22):
employees that they have. So that'sgreat information. I wanted to reach out
to you right now and ask youabout what you're doing, what's coming up
for you, and some of thethings that you have in the future.
So at Millennial Ventures, people maynot know we are the parent company to
(34:45):
social impact brands. So one ofthe things I'm excited to announce that we
have launched is the Futures Leadership Network, and our job is to equip and
mobilize the future leaders of tomorrow.But we have an emphasis on moral and
ethical leaders so it it would makesense after I've been inspired by what we
discussed in the second segment with theworkplace bullying and toxic workplace experience that I
(35:08):
went through that our upcoming event isa virtual professional development event is called Courage
and Conviction Bold Women Overcoming Toxic Workplaces, where I've literally created kind of the
cheat code and distill the strategies thatmyself and the other women use to really
go through that process of voicing ouropinions, but also doing it in a
(35:30):
way that helped us maintain our alignmentwith truth and dignity and stay on brand
and heal after we maybe experienced badsituation. So looking forward to that anytime
in the future. If anyone seeingthis interview, feel free to go over
to joinfutures dot org and just emailour team for the recording and the replay
(35:53):
and we'll be more than happy tosend it over to you. Well,
well, hey, Brandy, thishas been a great, great show,
and as usual, all good thingshave to come to an end. But
we're not going to say come toan end. We're going to say come
to a pause and revisit to youlater. But something that I'd like to
do normally is close out the showwith a quote. So I know you.
I bet you have a favorite quote. Why don't you share what that
(36:15):
is with the audience. Oh I'mafraid. Okay, yes I do,
and I'm gonna pull it up realquick so that I don't. So this
is fire on Okay, okay,okay, this is here we go.
This is fire. I don't knowwho said it or why, but this
resonates with me. An army ofsheep led by a lion is better than
(36:36):
an army alliance led by a sheep. Did y'all catch that? Yeah?
That's fire and that it's about leadership. That's why I love that quote.
Yeah, well, well you heardit. I'm book at that radio show,
Doctor Brandy, thank you so muchfor joining us and my main man
Eddig as usual, you had anothergreat one, my man. Yes,
(36:57):
sir, it's been a look atthat radio show, Doctor Robert Benson,
and we'll tup to you next time.
Uh, hey, wanting to thebook at that radio show. I'm doctor
Robert Benson. As always, beforewe get started, we're going to say
(00:22):
thank you to Jehovah. Thank youfor our for our families, taking for
work, and our ability to dothe things we're able to do. Book
at that radio show. And I'mhanging out with my main man, Eddie.
What's up Eddie? What's up?Sir? How are you feeling today?
I'm doing great. I'm waiting foryou to say something about me or
something crazy. What is it?Come on, I'll go to be good
today. A classy guest today,You're gonna like you got class because we
(00:46):
got a classy guest. That's right, yes, sir. Okay, Well,
speaking of class and classic guests,we're going to talk to a person
who is a champion of a classyissue, and that's diversity. A champion,
a pure champion of diver We havewith us today, doctor Brandy Ball
and doctor Baldwin. What's happening withyou today? Talk to us. Let
me tell you, I'm excited.I'm excited to be here. I think
(01:07):
we might be cutting up a littlebit, but I am excited for the
discussion. So let's get into it. Yeah, yeah, Hey, So
how on earth did you become achampion of diversity? Obviously there was an
experience or some something happened that waslitmus that changed your life around and made
you the champion about diversity that youare. Please share that with us and
(01:30):
you got the mic talk to us. Okay, sure, So you know
what. My journey into the diversityand equity and inclusion space is unique in
that I started off doing professional developmentworkshops, primarily because I was starting off
as an entrepreneur trying to figure outwhat to do. I remember being in
(01:51):
grad school and one of my advisorssaid, no, one's going to hire
you to be a corporate consultant,which is the track that I wanted to
be on, because you're too young, you don't have enough job experience.
And at the time, the modelfor corporate consultants was typically a male,
maybe a female, but mostly menthat had worked maybe thirty forty years in
corporate America, retired and then becamea consultant, and typically it was a
(02:15):
white male. Nothing wrong with that, but that was the model at the
time. So we're talking, youknow, fifteen, a little bit over
fifteen years ago. I'm just like, I'm going to be a consultant,
you know, And they were like, sit down, ten years ago.
You in high school, weren't you. No, No, I'll be forty
this year. Whoa, Yeah,yes, I have a teenage daughter.
(02:38):
She just passed her permit driving toI got a lot of stuff going on
over here. But I got Shaybutter you know back, don't it now?
They so I started doing these workshopsand as they got more popular,
companies used to start to bring mein for the millennials. That's how it
(03:00):
started. They said, oh mygosh, this this thing that you do
and everything you're talking about, doyou do that for young professionals. And
at the time, that was thatniche demographic, that was that group that
organizations recognized were different, right,So back in the day and DEI is
not new, it was like multicultural. There were so many different names,
(03:23):
right that we used to call DEI. That was the yeah, And that
was the time when I kind ofgot in that space organically where they said,
hey, we have certain segments ofour workforce and your message we think
can apply. Long story short,as we know, the millennial generation is
(03:44):
about that life when it comes todiversity and inclusion and what they want to
see in their workplace. They reallyhave been at the helm of pushing that.
And so full circle moment, asI kind of got my reps up,
got more experience and things of thatnature, naturally those same organizations would
say, can you come back andspeak to our other kind of niche groups.
This is when ergs started to becomepopular, and so our veterans,
(04:09):
our young professionals, our black employeeresource group. And since then I've had
an opportunity to work in terms ofa DEI space for companies like Google,
like the federal government, pharmaceutical companies, and you name it for that DEI
piece. So it's been great.Being a champion for DEI is very challenging,
(04:31):
I'll say that because my approach reallyis accountability and upholding the standards of
diversity, equity and inclusion. Andso I don't play any games and I
call people up. I don't callthem out, but I call them higher
when they're talking a good game butmaybe not in alignment with their actions.
(04:55):
Let me ask you a question aboutthat. It's a very interesting point you
mentioned, because we're talking about diversityand inclusion. Me I see it as
counterintuitive on some levels, because whenyou're trying to include someone, you end
up excluding someone else or another population. What are your thoughts on that and
what do you think or have younoticed that there is a population or demographic
that's been excluded or or minimize onsome levels. Well, here's the thing.
(05:19):
So the organizations that do a greatjob are truly inclusionary, okay,
And that means that they are honoringthe D, the E, and the
I in every aspect of its meaning. And I'm cool with that. But
I find that the clients that usuallycall out, you know, for assistance
(05:40):
for me, are the ones thatare in that in between space where they
value diversity, equity inclusion. Theywant to be inclusive, but maybe their
approach has actually been exclusionary, sothey'll do things like sit their white employees,
for example, in a professional developmentpresentation on unconscious buy and the presenter
(06:01):
is pretty much making it seem likethe only people who have biases in the
audience are the white professionals and everyoneelse doesn't have that, you know.
So I've seen the execution of DEIprograms definitely be exclusionary, and I think
that that is why I have gainedpopularity with some and maybe others that don't
really like my approach, because ifyou're going to do D, E and
(06:27):
I, then we're going to honorthe D, the E, and the
I. If you're not, thenjust say that you're only focused on one
specific aspect. Say that we're justdoing racial equity work, Say that we're
just doing disability work, or what. Say that. Don't say D,
E and I as a catchment foryour strategy. If you're really only focusing
on what, make it plain,make it clear. And I'm very particular
(06:50):
about that, but you're right,it can be exclusionary and kind of counterintuitive
to the whole premise. And that'swhy I think that it gets a bad
rap sometimes and rightly so, fromlots of folks who are picking up on
that component and maybe seeing organizations notdo their best at in execution. A
(07:14):
quick question on that. When youhave corporations that approach you, do you
find that there's different situations where theeffort is genuine or the effort is forced,
And can you tell the difference ordoes that make a difference in your
approach of solving their problem. Itdoesn't make a difference in my approach,
(07:39):
but it does make a difference ifthey get past word go with me and
my firm. So here's the thing. They come into good or you have
client A Client B. Client Ais fumbling around, they're making mistakes,
but they're humble enough to say,we don't know what the heck we're doing,
doctor Brandy. We need some guidance. And I tell organizations you might
as well stay still, then gofast in the wrong direction, just pause
(08:03):
instead of trying to throw spaghetti atthe wall. Those organizations are the clients
that I have the best results with, and they're appreciative because they were humble
enough to be honest about their gaps. And you know, we can have
that accountability relationship. Right when Igo to my lawyer, I don't want
my lawyer to spare my feelings.I want my lawyer to say, you
got some risks in this area.When I go to my financial right,
(08:24):
I want my financial advisor to say, there is a little risky behavior over
here. We got to tighten thatup. That's the consultant that I am,
an approach that I take. Thenyou got client B that comes in,
says doctor Brandy, we are onehundred and fifty percent on this DEI
thing, And we just really wouldlove someone to come in and just help
us do unconscious bias training. Andwe understand that the white people in our
(08:46):
organization are really the major part ofthe problem, and we understand that black
people will never have an opportunity tobe their best. So we just need
you to come in and help usreally make make up a program anything you
want to do so that the blackemployees can just right to the top.
We're actually they do this spill rightand then I'm like, wait a minute,
(09:09):
hold up, do you have data? Did you do an assessment?
Do you know about the EEOC?You can't just hire a handful of black
and brown people just you know,we don't you know, you know,
And those are the organizations that ninetimes out of ten they don't even make
it past go. But if they'resavvy enough and they slip under my radar
(09:31):
and kind of switch up later,I'll be honest, I usually wind up
firing them. And every year Ifired organization. I posted on LinkedIn probably
a year and a half ago,but I fired an organization sixty three thousand
dollars contract by thank you. It'sbeen great, Nah and matter of fact,
we'll give you a refund back becauseyou're playing and at the end of
(09:52):
the day, the reputation that youremployees are connected to your company. You
know, we can't play behind thescenes and do this work. And so
it's challenging dealing with leaders, dealingwith egos, and it's a sensitive topic,
especially when politics sometimes can seep intothis kind of DEI space, very
(10:15):
challenging work, but I'll tell youright now that the people that are serious,
even if they're not perfect, inthe long run, they actually make
great strides in this area. Usine. Hey, well, that's a great
piece and great information. But ofcourse we got to take a quick break
and we're going to come back andfinish picking the brain of doctor Brandy Baldwin
(10:37):
this book. At that radio show, I'm hanging up with my may man
Aig and we're being enlightened by thegreat doctor Brandy Baldwin. We'll be right
back. See why. Listeners fromover one hundred and fifty countries around the
world follow the book Up Dad Radioshow join doctor Robert Benson and Eddie g
as they chat with special guests whoshare their stories and information that will change
(10:58):
your life. Watch and listen onLife and Spirit online dot com, or
subscribe to the Book of Dad RadioShow on Apple Podcast, Spotify, iHeartRadio,
or wherever you get your podcast.Brought to you Bob the NASCA Network.
(11:18):
Hey, everybody, welcome back tothe Book of Dad Radio Show with
Doctor Robert Benson and me at egAnd today we have the fabulous doctor Brandy
Baldwin who is schooling us on DEIletting us know really what goes on behind
the scenes, and we appreciate herfor that. And I wanted to finish
up. The reason I asked youthat question earlier was I used to work
(11:43):
for the power company in Philadelphia andthis was one of my first jobs,
was back in blah blah eighty something, right, And the reason I was
able to get hired is because thatcompany, it was a large corporate company,
but they were being sued for diversity. Right. So as you've laid
(12:05):
uh mentioned to their result are there. The way they wanted to approach it
was, well, we'll just goout in the community, we'll test some
people, we'll hire a bunch ofblack people and everything will be okay,
right, And that's what they did. I mean, that was good for
me. I'll take that right,I'll take the black check. But that
(12:31):
that's what was interesting to me whenyou talked about companies that really aren't sincere
about what they're doing. And Iguess it comes back to haunt them in
the long run, because it hasto work on both sides, as you
said. So, I just wantedto know about your current journey. You
(12:54):
know, I follow you on sinceh social media and everything ever since you've
I met you years ago and Iwatched your progress because you're a positive leader,
You're entrepreneur and that's the kind ofpeople that we love to talk to
here. And you put a postup about a situation that you had at
(13:16):
the workplace. So let's let's heara little bit about that. Oh okay,
so let me give you an overview. We all know twenty twenty George
Floyd happened and I got a callfrom a colleague saying, Hey, as
you know, I am, youknow, high up in the tourism and
hospitality industry. We have a consortiumof leaders that are getting together from all
(13:41):
types of organizations. We're talking thetop organizations and tourism hospitality. So this
organization and the board you know haspeople from Marriott, Kipton Hotel's, Carnival
Cruises, everything in the middle right, and would you like to be a
part of this? We really thinkthat we need some young blood, you
know, to be truthful, weneed, you know, some millennial energy.
And you're in the DEI space aswell, so you know, and
(14:03):
this is kind of a startup venture. You're you're an entrepreneur. Would you
like to be on the founding afounding member on the executive committee? I
said yes, say less, I'mthere, had served on this organization since
then, and the end of twentytwenty two, the CEO and that same
individual, the executive director at thetime, said you know what, we
(14:26):
really think you would be great asthe board chair going into twenty twenty three.
I'm like, who me? Youknow? They love me, they
really love me, And I thought, I'll be honest. I had a
moment when I thought the people onthis board were talking about the top CEOs
and tourism from California all the wayto the East coast. So I was
(14:50):
thinking, initially, I'm not qualified. How the heck, you know,
did I even get an opportunity?But god, you know, and I
can't figure it out, I'm goingto attributed to the Lord. So I
said, you know, you're goingto step into this role and you're going
to do your best, and whynot. You know it's not you then
who started in twenty twenty three andthis individual started to onboard me let me
(15:13):
know the priorities of the organization,thinks of that nature, and said,
you know what, you're going tobe the new faith we have. We're
going to work together. You know, we're really gonna we have these ideas
on things that we can do.And I'll be honest about ninety days in.
Once I got my footing, onceI understood what my vision was going
to be and how I would approachmy tenure as board chair of the organization,
(15:37):
he no longer could sort of bethe person behind the person. And
I think that as that transitioned andI was stepping really into the full power
of my role and the authority thatI had being the highest ranking member of
the organization, I think that that'swhere our professional relationship shifted. Over the
next several months of twenty twenty three, I experienced being yelled, debt on
(16:00):
zoom calls, being braided, beingdemeaned. I would speak to board members
about like feedback, what can wedo to improve the organization. I would
take those ideas back to this individualand be told I don't want to hear
another thing from anything that the boardwants to do. They need to cut
a check, that's what they needto do. I don't have to be
here. I'm not doing any extrawork. I'm not doing like so you
(16:22):
and the board like you can gogo somewhere, you know, And I
was like, wait a minute,haccer, you know, And so for
me, I said, you knowwhat, I know this individual has a
lot of responsibilities. They're stressed.I started to make excuses. And so
for anyone listening who has been ina toxic work environment and things of that
nature, that's ten what we tendto do. And I saw I was
(16:44):
making excuses. It didn't feel good. Fast forward, I said, you
know what, let me check inwith the CEO because I think this pattern
is becoming a pattern. I don'tlike it. And so I went to
the CEO. I said, hey, you know, I'm thinking I got
the smoking gun. I'm like,wait TOI a lot, tell all you
know I got my I know,yell, dad, I got time to
day, the inflection of tone forthe yell listen, I told the CEO.
(17:07):
The CEO didn't flinch. The CEOsaid, we already know. We
previously have hired a coach because hiscommunication style, and he's rubbed out.
I said, wait a minute,I'm late to the party. You already
know. He said, you knowwhat we're gonna do. We're gonna meet
with this individual. We're gonna meetto bring your notes, and we're gonna
let him know. You know,I'm not putting up with this, and
he knows better than to treat methat way. So the fact he's doing
it to you, and I thinkthe CEO was genuine and sincere. But
(17:30):
we got into the meeting, Iaired out all the notes that I collected
on the individual, thinking that wewere doing some real accountability. The CEO
actually had his talking points as well. But when the meeting concluded, the
behavior got worse. So that wasa signal to me that the CEO really
doesn't have power. That whatever theyhad going on, or whatever information one
(17:51):
had on the other, or whateverthe dynamic was. I thought, when
the CEO, when you don't pipedown in a meeting with the CEO and
the board chair that tells you thatthere's something else going on. The end
of the year came and they askedme to continue. They said, please
stay on his board chair, andI pretty much said, I can't do
this for mental health reasons. Ican't be on this individual's hit list anymore.
(18:11):
I haven't seen a change in thebehavior. I was literally going to
bow out gracefully and go on aboutmy business. And I remember seeing the
headline with doctor Antoinette Bailey, whocommitted suicide as a higher ed leader earlier
in January because of alleged workplace bullyingat the hands of her boss. And
(18:36):
when I read that article, itreminded me of the things I was dealing
with. So I felt in myspirit that the Lord said, if you
don't say anything, the blood ison your hands. So any woman or
person that comes up after you inthis role, the experience is his poor
behavior. It's going to be onyou because your values are such that you
need to speak out. So Iwrote a letter to the board saying,
(18:57):
unfortunately, just you all know,because you probably don't know why I'm not
continuing as a board chair. Thisis the reason why. Here goes some
receipts because y'all not going to tryto make me out to be a liar.
He goes some emails and some receipts. The CEO has known about this
and hasn't done his part. Andthis is how God works. I sent
(19:17):
this on Monday, January fifteenth,MLK day silence on Tuesday, I didn't
hear anything. I said, Oh, I mean child, we now?
Oh what happy? Something told meon Wednesday. By Wednesday, I said,
you know what. I remember ayoung lady that used to work with
him years ago. Never heard hersay anything bad about him. They were
(19:37):
like peas in a pod. SoI said, hey, I sent to
text my sage. Hey person,it's me doctor Brandy. Is it's still
your number because I hadn't spoken toher since before the pandemic, probably five
six years. And a couple hourslater she responded, Hey, doctor Brandy,
it is me. How are you. Oh my gosh, I said,
weird question, but I literally havebeen working with SO AND's so for
(20:00):
the last year. It was horrific. I never heard you say anything negative
about him? What was your experience? And she said, oh my gosh,
I can't believe he's still behaving thatway. She sent me a long
text message with her experience and anotherwoman's name who had the same issue.
I said, have her reach outto me if she's willing. This young
lady reached out to me and shehad the name of another person she worked
(20:25):
with they had the same experience.By Friday that same with January fifteen,
we still on mlkday. By thatFriday, I had eight names of other
women who over the last decade hehad treated the exact same way, And
so it shifted everything. I didn'tknow them from a can of paint.
And over three weeks we got togetherand wrote an open letter to the tourism
hospitality industry to share our collective storiesdealing with this one person. The reason
(20:51):
why we did that is because theseother young ladies spoke to HR, they
spoke to their leaders, they spoketo other CEOs, and nothing ever happened.
With me being the highest ranking memberof this organization, nothing ever happened.
So we said, you know what, for our healing, we're going
to put it out there. We'renot calling for resignations. We don't want
anyone to de terminating. This isabout our journey and shedding light on darkness,
(21:14):
and I reached out before. Iwas so nervous because I was kind
of like spearheading this group the daybefore we put the letter out. Y'all
get an exclusive right now. Telly'all okay, so let me tell you,
(21:37):
I said, just to make sure, and actually one of the other
women in the group said, youknow, we want to operate in the
highest level of integrity. Reach outto them because when I sent that original
letter, they sparked. It sparkedan investigation. They allegedly investigation which was
a sham, you know, whateverfor another day, another another story.
So I said, okay, Sothe Monday, it was coming up on
(22:02):
like three days and it would havebeen like a month since the original letter.
I'm like, what's going on.I reached out to them. I
said, Hi, I participated inyour investigation and spoke with your lawyer and
gave them all the details and likethat, I haven't heard anything. It
was such a sense of urgency foryou know, we're going to do an
investigation on your allegations, doctor Brandy. I said, I haven't heard anything,
so I just want to double checkto just see what the status is.
And da da da da, theysend me a nice little terse email
(22:23):
back saying the investigation is active andongoing. We have no idea when it
will conclude, and you will knowwhen we when we get the information back.
So I said, okay, Italked to the ladies. I said,
we're going to release the letter tomorrowsin since they don't know when ever.
It can be seven years, it'sgoing to be you know what I
mean, it's going to be twentyfive years. And listen, let me
(22:47):
tell you that letter came out oneday, the news picked it up,
I think maybe Wednesday, Thursday.The letter came out, the media picked
it up the next day or so, and he was terminated within right.
I said, oh man, that'sto get you concluded. Interesting what timing
right? What cause three days agoit was active and ongoing and we didn't
(23:08):
know if it was going to bethe you know, the steward of solar
eclipse. We didn't know when itwas going to happen. So the executive
director was terminated, lost a couplepositions on some rolls, and the CEO
stepped down and they are now ona pause from doing any new work with
any clients. This is the lastthing I'll say in like ten seconds to
(23:29):
kind of put a pen in this. This is what we have to understand
about DEI. When you have aconsultant or when you're doing it on your
own, it doesn't matter. Takecare of your home first. Take care
of your house first. The purposeof me bringing it up early on to
say, hey, mag mean meanmean. First of all, we are
a DEI nonprofit allegedly in the tourismindustry. But it was for us to
(23:52):
get our house in order. Andwhen you don't get your own house in
order, this is what happens.Anyway, You still get publicly, you
know, shames. Unfortunately, youknow, your dirty laundry gets aired out
anyway. People lose their roles,you lose credibility, You can't take on
new clients when all you had todo was really hold one individual accountable for
(24:14):
being exclusionary and spoiler alert, thiswas not a white man. This was
a black man. Wow, Wowit was you know, so you know
it's not so monolithic and so youknow black and white, no pun intended.
When we see about d I,if their nuances to creating a productive
and constructive workplace that I think needto be addressed well. First of all,
(24:38):
we're not done with you. Wehave more to get to on the
other side. So, and you'reabsolutely right, dealing with diversity is not
necessarily dealing with racial issues, justdealing with gender issues and other demographics as
well that are different. But whenwe come back, I want you to
think about something to address on theother side. Ed mentioned something about recruiting
(25:00):
efforts. I'd like to know ifyou personally feel or think that diversity is
better handled through recruitment or through culturalmassaging, if you will on the other
side, the spook at that radioshow, I'm a doctor Robert Benson and
Eddie and I are overwhelmed with theknowledge and professionalism with doctor Baldwin and we're
going to finish with her when weget back. We'll be right back.
(25:22):
You have something special, you havegreatness in you. Hello, I'm Less
Brown, missus, Mamie Brown's babyboy. I want you to spread the
word to your family members and friendsto listen to Less Brown Greatness Radio dot
com. Absolutely, and let meshare with you why we're going to be
focusing on positive things. Because whateveryou focus on the longest becomes the strongest.
(25:45):
And now more than ever, whenthe suicide rate has increased over thirty
three percent, when the suicide rateof young children between five and eleven has
doubled. People feeling hopeless and stressedout and powerless. We need programming that
can bring out the greatness in them, and that's what we will be focused
(26:07):
on. When you listen, itwill be an experience that will transform your
life. Let's Brown Greatness Radio dotcom. That's my story and I'm sticking
to it. Hey, and we'reright back, doctor Robert Benson with the
Book of Dad Radio Show audioce gN Doctor Baldwin. She's going to be
our new co host because she hasa wealthy knowledge and she can be the
(26:30):
new Book of Dad radio Show person. You know what I mean. We
can't afford her. Okay, shedidn't say. She didn't say. She
didn't say, y'all can she said, okay, y'all got the friend of
(26:52):
the family discount for sure. Rightwhen we left off, I was trying
to get her. I want toget her or if we can to share
what the audience, the approach hehas me. I see this as a
dichotomy. If you will, ifyou're trying to address diversity, do you
try to address diversity diversity through recruitmentand bringing in the right people into the
(27:14):
organization as it talked about when heworked for the company he worked four years
ago, or deal with diversity fromwithin what your incumbent employees me. I'm
a federal employee, so I understandjust how hard and concerted the efforts are
to address just that, because youknow, the federal government supposed to be
reflective of the people who it represents, representative bureacracy, if you will.
(27:37):
But that and with that being thefoundation, talk to us a little bit
more about how you approach the dichotomy. Is there a prefer one that you
prefer over the other or is itsomething that you think can be done in
concert. Well, my background andtraining is an organizational development, right,
so when you think about diversity,equity and inclusion, I see that as
(27:59):
one aspect of developing your organization.Maybe it's an employee employee engagement, right.
There are so many different things programs, learning, and development, So
it's a part of that piece forme. And so that being said,
it's multifaceted. What about your recruitingand your talent pipeline? You know,
what about your programming and your professionaldevelopment? Not just on technical skills,
(28:21):
but also on how you are trainingpeople to interact with each other, especially
those who are different generationally, culturally, and every other DEI dimension. What
about your suppliers, are you,you know, supporting small businesses and diverse
businesses with your supplier diversity strategy?What about your board? Right? So,
I think that it's a multifaceted approach. And because I'm more so bonafide
(28:45):
organizational development and systems and strategic planning, that's really my training, what it
has been, and how I've appliedit to building businesses as an entrepreneur,
but also consulting with companies. That'sthe approach that I take, which means,
let's assess your entire system, yourentire organization, and let's see where
the hotspots are. So I willengage with clients sometimes and they'll come in
(29:07):
and say, we need workshops,workshops, workshops on treating how to treat
people fairly and this and that,and then I'll say, well, let's
the data says, but actually youhave too many nice managers. And this
sounds counterintuitive, but your managers areso nice. They don't hold people accountable.
They allow someone who's not doing theirjob to work right next to the
person that's going above and beyond,and they've never gotten a write up at
(29:30):
all. So what you need isa conflict management course, equitable communications,
equitable management to help your managers understandhow to address the things they don't want
to address because it's perpetuating inequity inyour organization. They go, what we
thought we just had to have somethingabout, you know, race or gender,
and a lot of times there areother more subtle things happening that still
(29:53):
are part of DEI. So Ialways say DEI doesn't feel as DEI as
you think it does. If you'redoing it right, if you are kind
of keeping it on surface and maybeeven performing, it's going to feel like
race, race, gender, gender, gender, race, race, disability,
race, race all the time.And it's a lot more subtle part
of building a positive and functional companyculture. You know, that's very interesting
(30:17):
you mentioned that because I had saidit was a dichotomy, and obviously it
encompasses many things. And that leadsme to pick your brain a little bit
further and ask you, how doyou go in there? What are you
using surveys? Are you at conductinginterviews before you go in and actually decide
what you're going to do. Whatis your your your step one to assist
an organization and taking that taking thatprocess on. So the first step is
(30:41):
just like when you go to adoctor. You're like, doc, I
got this pain right here. They'relike, Okay, tell me about it.
What's going on? Okay, we'regonna run some blood work. Let's
just do that first, right.So I take that holistic approach, tell
me what you think is going on. I'm going to write those notes.
Then I'm going to listen with myexpert ears. I'm gonna get a sense
(31:02):
for probably what's really going on.I usually don't tell them early on,
and to check both of our perceptions, We're going to do an organizational equity
assessment, and that data is goingto support us in figuring out what's going
on in four dimensions leadership and managementand company culture and professional development and policies
and procedures. So it'll let usknow in the back end what's really going
(31:26):
on, where the hotspots are,where the smoke is, so that we
can make sure no fires break out, and that helps to reconcile our understanding
and we go from there. Nowat that point, sometimes clients will go,
oh, no, we don't wantto deal with that. We uncovered
something that we're not really ready todeal with, so can we just do
something else? And then I sayno, we give them their strategy and
what their steps should be, butwe will not move forward and execute something
(31:48):
that they actually don't need just foroptics. And then most of the time
they'll they'll be grateful to move forwardand start to chip away at that plan.
You know, you said one more, you said one thing, give
me a second, just a second, and you said one thing that really
resonates with me, and you talkedabout the person who performs versus the person
who doesn't. That's something that Inever thought about being a part of a
(32:10):
diversity issue. If you will,how do you see that being a diversity
issue. Well, here's the thing. Think about a performance. It's about
on stage, everything that you see, versus what's happening behind the scenes with
the stage crew and all the logistics. So what you'll find is it's easy
to perform. It's way easier tojust make things look good. What does
(32:31):
that look like? Sometimes it lookslike these perpetual monthly cultural acknowledgments. So
February that History Month. Oh youcan't wait because with the Blacks they'll get
another chance. June teenth's coming uptoo, also Women's History Month. You
know. So those are easy thingsto do. They're on the surface,
a lot of workshops, a lotof training, a lot of talking and
(32:51):
panels that could be very performative becauseit's front end. On the back end,
though, sometimes I'll tell our clients, hey, I know they want
to workshop. I know everyone's choppingit the bit to figure out what the
heck's going on with our DEE strategy, Doctor Brandy. First of all,
your managers need training, your leadershipneeds training, your board needs training.
We're not going to perform for anybodyuntil I make sure that all of the
(33:15):
key leaders are in alignment with DEIpractices and principles. Your policies need auditing.
Until the audit is done, we'renot going to do any shiny workshops
for all staff because so those aresome of the back end things that really
is a strong foundation. So it'sthe difference between like interior decorating or do
you want to make sure you're plumbingand your electric works. I want to
make sure you're plumbing and your electricworks because we can go Ikea and get
(33:38):
some new furniture for this house atany time. The companies typically do the
opposite. Yeah, well, Ithink that highlights for some people how important
DEI is to the operation of thecorporation as well. And when it gets
deep into the weeds, you're talkingabout affecting margins, you're talking about affecting
(34:02):
production, all those things, itall works together. And a lot of
times you have corporations that don't seethat not that ties them together, and
they just look at it, asyou said, as a cultural thing,
and they don't recognize the power andthe knowledge of some of the different diverse
(34:22):
employees that they have. So that'sgreat information. I wanted to reach out
to you right now and ask youabout what you're doing, what's coming up
for you, and some of thethings that you have in the future.
So at Millennial Ventures, people maynot know we are the parent company to
(34:45):
social impact brands. So one ofthe things I'm excited to announce that we
have launched is the Futures Leadership Network, and our job is to equip and
mobilize the future leaders of tomorrow.But we have an emphasis on moral and
ethical leaders so it it would makesense after I've been inspired by what we
discussed in the second segment with theworkplace bullying and toxic workplace experience that I
(35:08):
went through that our upcoming event isa virtual professional development event is called Courage
and Conviction Bold Women Overcoming Toxic Workplaces, where I've literally created kind of the
cheat code and distill the strategies thatmyself and the other women use to really
go through that process of voicing ouropinions, but also doing it in a
(35:30):
way that helped us maintain our alignmentwith truth and dignity and stay on brand
and heal after we maybe experienced badsituation. So looking forward to that anytime
in the future. If anyone seeingthis interview, feel free to go over
to joinfutures dot org and just emailour team for the recording and the replay
(35:53):
and we'll be more than happy tosend it over to you. Well,
well, hey, Brandy, thishas been a great, great show,
and as usual, all good thingshave to come to an end. But
we're not going to say come toan end. We're going to say come
to a pause and revisit to youlater. But something that I'd like to
do normally is close out the showwith a quote. So I know you.
I bet you have a favorite quote. Why don't you share what that
(36:15):
is with the audience. Oh I'mafraid. Okay, yes I do,
and I'm gonna pull it up realquick so that I don't. So this
is fire on Okay, okay,okay, this is here we go.
This is fire. I don't knowwho said it or why, but this
resonates with me. An army ofsheep led by a lion is better than
(36:36):
an army alliance led by a sheep. Did y'all catch that? Yeah?
That's fire and that it's about leadership. That's why I love that quote.
Yeah, well, well you heardit. I'm book at that radio show,
Doctor Brandy, thank you so muchfor joining us and my main man
Eddig as usual, you had anothergreat one, my man. Yes,
(36:57):
sir, it's been a look atthat radio show, Doctor Robert Benson,
and we'll tup to you next time.
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