June 27, 2025 • 24 mins
I remember when my father built his first deck. It was a small one at one side of the pool. Years later, he took it to a new level where he built one connected to the house with sliding glass doors, a grilling and dining area leading to the pool. That was decades ago, but my first experience with a deck as not simply a platform, but a living and entertainment space. Fast forward to 2025, Deck Rebellion: Revolutionary Concepts for Outdoor Living takes deck design up several notches (as the great Casey Kasem used to say) into a dimension so fascinating, it is limited only by one’s imagination.
Sean McAleer, founder of Deck Remodelers, winner of a plethora of prestigious awards, offers us not only a look into his own mind and skill, but a trending attitude toward decks as not only a place to enjoy a newspaper and grill burgers, but as the centerpiece of a backyard resort. We all enjoy going to 5-star hotels with beautiful outdoor deck areas, why not have one at home? This book not only let’s the reader explore his or her potential with photos of McAleer’s heralded work, but a series of short story testimonials from those whose backyards he and his company enchanted.
The decks shown in this book not only epitomize the new wave in yard-wide reimagination but also reveal how much McAleer loves a challenge and takes true joy in improving people’s lives through their homes. Why not, as he says, bring what you enjoy about the inside of your home outside?
While the photos inspire imagination and offer readers a chance to think about the possibilities for their own backyard paradise, McAleer also offers practical advice to those who want to take on one of their own Deck Rebellions. He conveys what a well-conceived and quality-constructed deck can do for a home both to its aesthetic and investment value
About Sean McAleer: Sean McAleer, President of Deck Remodelers, is a third-generation carpenter and cabinet maker who has redefined outdoor living through visionary deck design. Under his leadership, Deck Remodelers has become a trailblazer in the industry, earning over 70 national design awards and holding the distinction of being the most award-winning deck design firm in North America since 2010. A pioneer in his field, Sean was among the first members of NADRA (North American Deck & Railing Association), where he has been actively involved for almost 15 years. His expertise has also earned him a place on Infratech’s Visionary Committee, as well as a panelist spot on the Luxe Interiors & Design webinar. Beyond his groundbreaking work in deck design, Sean is an avid traveler, a passionate Harley-Davidson enthusiast, and a dedicated family man, married with four children. Check out his website https://deckremodelers.com/.
Sean McAleer, founder of Deck Remodelers, winner of a plethora of prestigious awards, offers us not only a look into his own mind and skill, but a trending attitude toward decks as not only a place to enjoy a newspaper and grill burgers, but as the centerpiece of a backyard resort. We all enjoy going to 5-star hotels with beautiful outdoor deck areas, why not have one at home? This book not only let’s the reader explore his or her potential with photos of McAleer’s heralded work, but a series of short story testimonials from those whose backyards he and his company enchanted.
The decks shown in this book not only epitomize the new wave in yard-wide reimagination but also reveal how much McAleer loves a challenge and takes true joy in improving people’s lives through their homes. Why not, as he says, bring what you enjoy about the inside of your home outside?
While the photos inspire imagination and offer readers a chance to think about the possibilities for their own backyard paradise, McAleer also offers practical advice to those who want to take on one of their own Deck Rebellions. He conveys what a well-conceived and quality-constructed deck can do for a home both to its aesthetic and investment value
About Sean McAleer: Sean McAleer, President of Deck Remodelers, is a third-generation carpenter and cabinet maker who has redefined outdoor living through visionary deck design. Under his leadership, Deck Remodelers has become a trailblazer in the industry, earning over 70 national design awards and holding the distinction of being the most award-winning deck design firm in North America since 2010. A pioneer in his field, Sean was among the first members of NADRA (North American Deck & Railing Association), where he has been actively involved for almost 15 years. His expertise has also earned him a place on Infratech’s Visionary Committee, as well as a panelist spot on the Luxe Interiors & Design webinar. Beyond his groundbreaking work in deck design, Sean is an avid traveler, a passionate Harley-Davidson enthusiast, and a dedicated family man, married with four children. Check out his website https://deckremodelers.com/.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Book Spectrum. I'm your host, Chris Cordani. As
you know, we're not simply the regular book show. We
bring in writers on authors who may not be traditional
when it comes to pen on paper and typewriter and
all event work. Nowadays, I guess word process or whatever
the kids are using, but they are from occupations across
the spectrum. With me today, I'm going to take a
(00:21):
different approach, a rather unique kind of author and a
rather unique kind of book. But at the right time,
because it's summer, no summer is on the way at least,
and many will be out enjoying their decks. I have
with me Sean McIntire. He is a deck builder and
author of a Deck Rebellion. He's with me now, Welcome
to book Spectrum. Sean.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Thanks Chris.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Great to be on with you and this book, Deck Rebellion.
It looks like a coffee table book of brilliant, beautiful decks,
but these are decks you.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Built, designed and built all of them, and not just
the deck, but the whole backyard experience we do. It
is Deck Rebellion because the stuff that we did, it's
sort of my journey from when I first started in
this business doing sterior spaces. I moved from building homes
(01:10):
and interiors to do an exteriors, and I wasn't satisfied
with rectangles and squares. You know, we were building these
beautiful homes and the deck on the back was like an.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Afterthought by the architect, by.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Whoever was building it, and I just needed to take
that to another level. I just don't it should be
as nice as the house itself, if not nicer. So
that's where we get to where we are today.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Well, well, let's talk about that. Back when I was younger,
the deck was a nice little place, maybe a nice
rectangular platform next to the pool, place to dive in,
maybe climb up, sit on a lounge chair, maybe something
outside of the back door. Again, small platform, nothing as
imaginative as what you have today and what people are
putting together.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Now.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
This is an audio podcast and we can't show the
photos on air, but we do have them in the post,
so check it out at book spectrum dot com. We will, however,
be painting some of these pictures via the mind and
words here. So the dink is transformed over the years,
and I know there are patios out there too, And
then there is the deck, patio platform. They're not just
squares or rectangles anymore. You have as you were saying,
(02:19):
of semi circles, it's almost like an extra room or
set of rooms within the house.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
At this point, absolutely, that's that's what that outdoor living
space we're building, I mean outdoor living roomors are the
most popular thing that we do. So, you know, people
spend a lot of money. People spend a lot of
money buying a house and a house with property, and
they want.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
To be able to be outside.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
There's a lot of you know, bioclimactic design there's you know,
is focuses on all the benefits to mind and body
from being outside. Right, being outside is important, and if
you don't have a space where you can enjoy it,
then you know, if you're just building a rectangle deck,
no cover, no heat, no fans, no nothing, it's very
(03:07):
limited in its use. It's like an empty room. Right,
so you put a couple of chairs and then you
call it a day. Now that's not so much anymore.
People won't stand for it. We do almost every project
we do is covered. We do the Equinox lovered roof,
which is a roof that opens and closes.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
We do regular roofs. We do.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
We always cover a portion of the deck because we're
putting heaters there, ceiling fans there. A lot of times
you're putting in screens so you can screen it in.
And this is not your grandpa's screened in room where
the screens are up for all the time and they
get dirty and the room is dingy and dark and everything.
This is you click the button, the screens come down,
(03:46):
you click the button, the screens go up, and you're
completely outside but covering that space and having the heat
and the fans, and obviously we're doing TVs, we're doing kitchens,
we're doing all this other stuff that gives you in
the Northeast here at least ten months a year no
rain days.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
And that's a good thing because you can't always sit
out in the deck during the colder weather, but you
can sometimes if there's a roof over there, So that's
a good thing.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
It seems a fire to pose, right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Fireplaces and fire pits have been very popular over the
many years as well, but you can you can do
that on a deck now. And I want to get
into this what inspired well, what got you into deck construction?
What brought you into the business, by the way, So.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
As far as building and designing, I'm a third generation carpenter.
I grew up in my dad's woodworking shop in the
city in New York City, and you know, he was
the company he was working with, was was building all
these high end custom you know, cherry libraries and custom
doors and custom furniture and custom everything. And that's kind
(04:54):
of the world I grew up in. And you know,
for me, when I was little, I wasn't doing much.
Was it was wax on, wax off. It was sandy shelves,
edged these shelves, stacked these shelves, you know, and then
it became staining, and then it became doing moldings and
everything else, and then doing the installs, and so that's
kind of what I grew up with.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
And then you know, me being me.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
I wanted to do more and I got into working
for home builders here in Jersey and started building some homes,
you know, big. Luckily I got I'm a guy who
was absolutely phenomenal businessman, phenomenally organized, and we used to
build homes up in Rio Vista and Mahwa and Alpine,
(05:37):
big big homes and it was a small crew, but
super efficient, super detail oriented like and everything was just
the quality of the work was through the roof. But
I learned a lot from him and building those kind
of being on those kind of houses and house sites
and everything. And then I went into it on my
own and you know, clearing the lot, foundation, drain.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
In the whole house all the way through. Is this
was the world I was living in.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
And you know, we were building a lot of projects
and then you know, doing additions at a level of
stuff like that, and redoing decks that were in the backyard,
and we're doing this gorgeous We're putting all this time
and love and effort into designing and building these beautiful kitchens,
for instance, and then you walk out the door onto
this piece of rectangle deck and it's splintering. And then
(06:29):
the rails are made. I mean, you know, I used
to make mahogany rails for interiors, right, like gorgeous rails
that would take a lot of time and a lot
of love. And then you build a deck outside and
you slap together you know, two by two ballusters on
two by fours and cap it with a two by
six and treated lumber, and you call them, this a
(06:49):
deck on a house like that.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
It was a mentality though. It was the mentality back then,
and it was just like, hey, a place outside to sit.
I'm looking at the pictures in your book Deck Rebellion,
and these are these are like two three tier decks
with partially semi circle. You have a hot tub on
the outside, you have uh or leads to the patio
in the pool, you have double decker decks. It's it's
(07:11):
just a whole new bird here. That's how did that
mentality change over the years.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
That's a good question, Chris. So.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Basically, back in the day, decks were pretty much done
by the framers who was framers who were framing the house,
and deck guys became were more like above average framers.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Right.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
For the most part, There's some certain guys that you know,
I read their books when I was a kid, and
I'm actually, you know, honored to call them my friends now.
And they they did some really amazing stuff. But these
guys were craftsmen. They were they were high end carpenters
(07:53):
that decided they were going to build redwood and mahogany
decks outside. But for the majority of everything that's going on,
it was above average framers, and they were just putting
it together. And in the beginning, when I first started,
I was like a painter that had two colors.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
On my palate.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
I had pressure treated, I had cedar, and maybe I
had some redwood if I could get it, and that
was it.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Today I've got every color.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
We've developed so many different types of materials that we
use outside. You know houses now of PVC trim, Well,
we trim all our decks in PVC, and you know,
you paint it once, it's good to go twenty five
thirty five years and it's never going to rot.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Twist and warp.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
So being able to use products and decking, the decking
that we use, we do PVC decking. You're using that
product and then you're putting a kitchen on top of it.
So you're spending this money and you're not looking at
something that's going to have to have maintenance. And I
have a short lifespan. Because a lot of people don't
realize this, but a deck that pressure treat deck, if
(09:01):
you're in a condo or in a townhouse or whatever,
paying your dues, the actuaries say those decks are going
to be replaced every twenty years, so you're paying into
it to have the money to replace that deck in
twenty years. And if you're living in a house and
you're spending a ton of money on a deck, replacing
it in twenty years, I mean that flies by pretty quick,
especially if you're spending big bucks. So you know, people
(09:22):
didn't want to invest the money as much, plus not
covering it limited use. Now with materials that have I mean, geez,
fifty years stay and faid warranty, I mean the decking
is going to be there as long as the house.
That's one of the big things that's changed. Decks are
no longer disposable. Just put them on when you paint
them a few times. When they crap out, we'll get
(09:43):
rid of them. Now it's legit part of the house.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
That's a big deal in real estate of salesmen and
of course experts know about this as well. It's a
permanent structure they can do a lot for in both
acidic value but of course home value.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yes, big time.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
So on Zillos on Zillos top On Zillo's new home
buyer wish list is a beautiful outdoor space and it's
been that way for almost fifteen years. It really accelerated
through COVID, and there was literally times during COVID, so
I would all these real estate agents would call me
(10:21):
up and they would be standing on a property with
a client and showing me pictures of the backyard, asking
me if I can build a beautiful space out there.
And you know, of course, if they have the budget,
I can make it happen. Zoning is good, I can
make it happen. But the thing was that the places
that had beautiful outdoor spaces, we're getting into bidding wars
(10:41):
and people couldn't even buy them. So now it was okay,
we'll buy the house without it and we'll build it.
So legit people, you know, getting a call from a
real estate agent going I'm here to buyer. They're looking
at this house, they love the house, the backyard is crap.
They need something to build outside. Is this something you
could do? Is this what can you do with the space,
(11:02):
And of course it's a very general conversation, but I'm like, yeah,
we can design something really cool, and they're like, okay, Greg,
we'll buy it.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
So that's how important it was, how important it's been.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
And you know, a lot of people through COVID really
woke up to a space because I mean, think about it,
if you have well, at my house, my deck was covered.
So remember back in the day when it was like, okay,
so we'll get together. Everybody bring their own snacks and drinks,
and we'll sit six feet apart and we'll hang out
around the fire pit. Yes, right, because we were all
(11:34):
tired of the zoom cocktail parties that just got really
old or really quick.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
I'm not a big fan of the six feet apart,
but we can get into that at another time, right, right, But.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
This was like, you know, this was like spread out,
be outside. As soon as the drinking started, the six
feet went away. But it was being outside and you know,
if there was any thread or rain, if there was
any kind of showers, if it was too cold or whatever,
we all ended up at my house because I had
to cover. I had the heaters, I had the ceiling fans.
It was an outdoor living so it made everybody feel
(12:05):
comfortable to be, you know, gather outside like that, and
that was that was a huge thing. And a lot
of my friends that that lived through that with me,
their decks are all.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Covered with me as Sean McLear He is a master
deck builder and author of the book Deck Rebellion. I
guess you can call it that. As we've discussed over
the last few decades, and we talked about the materials
are a lot better now and let's throw away it's uh,
it's easier to maintain, and of course they become extra rooms.
But still people sometimes try to overdo the deck or
(12:40):
or maybe they don't do enough deck in a way,
what about how do you work with a potential customer
that wants to put something together and and maybe set
up a master plan if you will, and tell them, hey, yes,
this is a great idea, or maybe you shouldn't do this,
let's try this.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Yes, most people come to me because they have a
fuzzy They know they want a beautiful space, They've seen
something we've done, they have a couple, they have typically
have some wants and needs in their backyard. But they
they don't know. They don't design stuff all the time.
That's not their job. This is they want to do
it once, they want to do it right. And probably
(13:20):
the biggest compliment I get is people that we just
actually just did a video on our YouTube with a client.
They had the house built they've done multiple projects, and
her thing that really resonated with me, and I've heard
many times before.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
This was the first project we did.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
When it was done, there was nothing we looked around
and said, oh, we should have done that, because we
brought up all the options, laid everything out, and a
master plan is key, whether you're going to do the
whole thing or not, at least know what the endpoint
would be.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Right.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
So, if you're going to put in a pool, if
you're going to cover the deck, if you're going to
add a kitchen, if you're going to a fireplace, that's great.
If you're doing just the deck, now you need to
know where all that stuff is going to go, because
what you don't want to do is call me or
call somebody else afterwards and go, oh, guess what we
want to add a kitchen. Well, if we've made the
deck a foot bigger, it would work out. But now
(14:16):
it doesn't really work out. You know where the infrastructure
is not in there for it, or you know, we
just got a pool. We need to we sew a
deck on your on your on your book or on
your website, and we want we want that deck.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
And I go there and I go, yeah, you can't
do it.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
It's the pool's five feet too close to the house,
like literally, or three feet too close to the house
for this to all work out. And inevitably they say, well,
the pool guy said that was a good place for it. It
seemed like a good place. I'm like, yeah, that's because
the pool guy digs holes. He doesn't really care for
the rest of.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
The Yeah, they should know town ordinances too, and how
far some structures can be from others. And again that's
another story for another day.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Well that's yeah, so the setback from the deck, right,
But when they're they're looking at this particular one that
I just dealt with this week was they had a
deck that was there, so the guy came ten feet
off of it. But the deck they had there was
too small to begin with. So had they moved, you know,
had they done the master plan before they built the pool,
(15:19):
they would have known exactly where to put the pool
right so and would and it wouldn't have made a
It wouldn't have made a look at difference whether they
pushed it out ten feet or or where it put
it where it was. There was no barriers for that.
But obviously you're not redoing the pool afterwards, so we
have to design around it.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Interesting showing immaculates with me. We're talking about his book
A Rebellion. What inspires you with some of these designs.
I'm sure you have seen some pretty cool things in
your travels and anything inspired to create something that anybody else,
nobody else has created before.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
I think it's.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
I think I think it's I don't because of my background,
because because of you know, we built a house one
time and I was trying to design the interior and
the exterior and the connection to the garage and multi
level of stuff, and I was having a problem working
it out. And a friend of mine was doing the
site the site work, and I was telling him over
(16:22):
a beer, what what you know? I was having this
issue and this is what I wanted to do, and
I was kind of forced it to do in something
that I wasn't one hundred percent loving. And he says
to me, well, let's just take the whole lockdown by
two feet, and I'm like, wait a second, what the
whole lot?
Speaker 2 (16:36):
What's that going to cost?
Speaker 3 (16:38):
It was pennies compared to the whole build and actually
saved us money because on the other end, because we
didn't have to do the extra stuff I thought we
were going to have to do. So like that, thinking
outside the box was it is kind of like what
I do with. I don't come in with I don't
come in with preconceived notions like oh, we have to
do this. No, we don't have to do anything. Only
(17:00):
rules we have to follow as physics and the zoning department.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
So that's it.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Everything else I can make work. So I'm looking at
the existing architecture of the house. I'm looking at the
views from the house. You know, I've built decks off
of cliffs. I've done hot how hot tubs off the cliffs.
I've done all kinds of crazy stuff. Because that's what
it was, just a matter of all right, what's the
(17:26):
engineering and if we can engineer the George Washington Bridge,
we can engineer a backyard deck. Just matters is it
in the budget and can you actually think of it?
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Well, here's another thing. There's also practicality. I think some
things look great and are pretty awesome, but they're not
always they just don't seem to be as functional as
maybe the maybe you'd want them to be. So talk
about balancing the artistic side of creating a deck, what
you do, and of course making sure there are practical uses,
(17:58):
everything's kind of on the up, but up of course
up to code. But also make sure everything is properly
functional and not useless.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Right, And that's an excellent point. So you may not
know this, but we're the most award winning deck builder
in North America since twenty ten by double digits over
everybody else. There's a lot of guys that copy, a
lot of builders that copy or try to copy what
we do. They see what we do and they try
(18:26):
to do it right, and then they try and top
us and do different things, which is fine, that's great.
There's a lot of really talented guys out there. But
where I see them go off the rails is they
get to a point where they're just trying to be different,
trying to design stuff for the fact of being different,
and they're not taking into account function. For me, form
(18:49):
follows function, it has to flow right. That was one
of the big things early on that I would see
before I really you know, started doing a lot of stuff,
was I would see multi level decks, three little levels.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
It's like, oh, I want a multi level deck.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Okay, so we'll make three levels, but each none of
the levels were even functional.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
They were so small.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
And then what really makes one of my pet piece
is each one would have rails in between it. So
if you're sitting in the couches and I'm sitting on
the table, I have to talk to you through rails.
That makes me nuts.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. It's it's like you're
in jail, right.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Right, Like you're in jail.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
So your question about yes, you know, getting fancy doing
all these things. So one of the things we do
is our team when we're designing, we're putting the furniture
in because we're designing for the furniture and how you
live and interact and sit and where you eat dinner
and what the view is from there. You know, it's
(19:47):
not the structure that's important, it's how you live in
it that's important. We're designing for a feeling. We want
you to feel awesome when you're out there. We want
you to feel when you're in a smaller space, a
small vignette. It's just the family or hanging out with
a friend having a scotch and a cigar. You know,
it's an intimate space. But then when it's a big party.
Everybody's at the same party. People are not isolated on
(20:09):
a little deck down there and a little deck over there,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
It does make sense, yes, you know when people kind
of like having a shout to each other over each other,
just to just to speak.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Right right right, And then you know, you got to
think of pathways. You know, you're putting furniture in there,
you need to have walkways. So it's kind of like
designing a house. You know, you know, this is your
kitchen area, this is your lounge area, this is your
dining area.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
You know, what's the line of side of TV?
Speaker 3 (20:38):
If I'm putting a TV on a fireplace, I want
that TV to be seen from the island at the
kitchen because you know, everybody wants to hang out of
the island, but also the couches and.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
The table because if I'm having everybody.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Over to watch the game, They're going to be spread out,
but they don't want to see the game, you know
what I mean. So that's kind of like thinking about
how that all flows from from a bit little space
to a big space and back again. Is really important
to make well everybody comfortable.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Sewan A machailer. Where can people who are listening to
this program find more about your company and your book,
So you can get.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
The book on dec remodelers dot com also deck Rebellion
dot com. It will leads to the same thing. A
lot of the stuff we're talking about today is on there.
If you'd like to see see me and see me
walking through some spaces and talking about spaces, you can
see that on our on our decro Modelers YouTube channel.
(21:36):
And we've got some cool stuff up on there. You know,
we're testing decks and we did this cool thing where
we shot decks at a fifty caliber rifle shot deck
boards so you can see, you can look at it,
you would be surprised what that what that round does.
And actually we just did another one where we actually
torched three different kinds of deck and so a full
(21:58):
plastic a would compile and a mineral composite which is
a mineral and plastic mix. And you know, with all
the fire issues around the country and here in Jersey
as well, you know, burning embers landing on your deck
and light up.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Your whole house.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
So we want to see, you know, which one of
these would hold up best, and that video is up
there too, and you'd be surprised. It wasn't what I thought.
It wasn't what I thought. But that's the burnt board
challenge that's up there, so you can see it there.
You can get the book on dec remodelers dot com
and if you send me a note on Instagram, I'll
sign the book for you.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
That'll be fantastic. That's that's that's great. You can find
of course sewn all over social media. One more question
about the book, Deck Rebellion. Though all the dicks you
put together, how did you get to narrow it down
to the few you put in the book? A relative few,
if you will.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
That was probably the hardest.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
That was probably the hardest thing that we did in
the whole book was going through that. And you know,
every one of those has a backstory, right, So some
of them were really difficult builds, which kind of like
taint my my my feeling of it, right, and then
some of them were some of them were easy. You
(23:14):
went smooth. But you know, I've had I've had projects
that have won first place national and I wasn't even
going to go shoot them because I was so it
was such a tough build and there was so much,
you know, it was just a lot to build it.
And my people are like, that's gorgeous. You got to go,
you got to shoot that, you got to put it in.
I'm like, okay, fine, and we go and do it
(23:35):
and and it wins, and I'm like, you know, so
I have my team, my team of my designers, and
we all spent a lot of time. We spent two
years putting this book together and picking out all the
different projects and wanting certain projects in there that weren't
finished landscape and weren't camera ready yet. We waited on
(23:56):
a couple of those, but and actually one of the
ones we waited one first place national this year.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
So it was a tough thing.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
But like on my website, there's a thousand pictures of
decks because they're my babies. You know, we're building, we build.
We build close to one hundred beautiful projects a year.
So our big thing is like which ones are we
gonna put up?
Speaker 1 (24:17):
So it's a good question, Sean McLear, really thank you
for being with us here. The book is Deck Rebellion.
You'll find some photos on our website book spectrum dot com.
If you're checking out on the audio podcast. You can
go on book spectrum dot com and find a little
bit more, or of course, your website once.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Again, deck remodelers dot com.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Interesting book, a lot of fun and uh a lot
of good advice in there as well. We didn't even
get into all of that, but Sean, thank you for
being with us here on book Spectrum, Thank you all
for listening, and keep those pages turning.
Welcome to Book Spectrum. I'm your host, Chris Cordani. As
you know, we're not simply the regular book show. We
bring in writers on authors who may not be traditional
when it comes to pen on paper and typewriter and
all event work. Nowadays, I guess word process or whatever
the kids are using, but they are from occupations across
the spectrum. With me today, I'm going to take a
(00:21):
different approach, a rather unique kind of author and a
rather unique kind of book. But at the right time,
because it's summer, no summer is on the way at least,
and many will be out enjoying their decks. I have
with me Sean McIntire. He is a deck builder and
author of a Deck Rebellion. He's with me now, Welcome
to book Spectrum. Sean.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Thanks Chris.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Great to be on with you and this book, Deck Rebellion.
It looks like a coffee table book of brilliant, beautiful decks,
but these are decks you.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Built, designed and built all of them, and not just
the deck, but the whole backyard experience we do. It
is Deck Rebellion because the stuff that we did, it's
sort of my journey from when I first started in
this business doing sterior spaces. I moved from building homes
(01:10):
and interiors to do an exteriors, and I wasn't satisfied
with rectangles and squares. You know, we were building these
beautiful homes and the deck on the back was like an.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Afterthought by the architect, by.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Whoever was building it, and I just needed to take
that to another level. I just don't it should be
as nice as the house itself, if not nicer. So
that's where we get to where we are today.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Well, well, let's talk about that. Back when I was younger,
the deck was a nice little place, maybe a nice
rectangular platform next to the pool, place to dive in,
maybe climb up, sit on a lounge chair, maybe something
outside of the back door. Again, small platform, nothing as
imaginative as what you have today and what people are
putting together.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Now.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
This is an audio podcast and we can't show the
photos on air, but we do have them in the post,
so check it out at book spectrum dot com. We will, however,
be painting some of these pictures via the mind and
words here. So the dink is transformed over the years,
and I know there are patios out there too, And
then there is the deck, patio platform. They're not just
squares or rectangles anymore. You have as you were saying,
(02:19):
of semi circles, it's almost like an extra room or
set of rooms within the house.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
At this point, absolutely, that's that's what that outdoor living
space we're building, I mean outdoor living roomors are the
most popular thing that we do. So, you know, people
spend a lot of money. People spend a lot of
money buying a house and a house with property, and
they want.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
To be able to be outside.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
There's a lot of you know, bioclimactic design there's you know,
is focuses on all the benefits to mind and body
from being outside. Right, being outside is important, and if
you don't have a space where you can enjoy it,
then you know, if you're just building a rectangle deck,
no cover, no heat, no fans, no nothing, it's very
(03:07):
limited in its use. It's like an empty room. Right,
so you put a couple of chairs and then you
call it a day. Now that's not so much anymore.
People won't stand for it. We do almost every project
we do is covered. We do the Equinox lovered roof,
which is a roof that opens and closes.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
We do regular roofs. We do.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
We always cover a portion of the deck because we're
putting heaters there, ceiling fans there. A lot of times
you're putting in screens so you can screen it in.
And this is not your grandpa's screened in room where
the screens are up for all the time and they
get dirty and the room is dingy and dark and everything.
This is you click the button, the screens come down,
(03:46):
you click the button, the screens go up, and you're
completely outside but covering that space and having the heat
and the fans, and obviously we're doing TVs, we're doing kitchens,
we're doing all this other stuff that gives you in
the Northeast here at least ten months a year no
rain days.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
And that's a good thing because you can't always sit
out in the deck during the colder weather, but you
can sometimes if there's a roof over there, So that's
a good thing.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
It seems a fire to pose, right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Fireplaces and fire pits have been very popular over the
many years as well, but you can you can do
that on a deck now. And I want to get
into this what inspired well, what got you into deck construction?
What brought you into the business, by the way, So.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
As far as building and designing, I'm a third generation carpenter.
I grew up in my dad's woodworking shop in the
city in New York City, and you know, he was
the company he was working with, was was building all
these high end custom you know, cherry libraries and custom
doors and custom furniture and custom everything. And that's kind
(04:54):
of the world I grew up in. And you know,
for me, when I was little, I wasn't doing much.
Was it was wax on, wax off. It was sandy shelves,
edged these shelves, stacked these shelves, you know, and then
it became staining, and then it became doing moldings and
everything else, and then doing the installs, and so that's
kind of what I grew up with.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
And then you know, me being me.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
I wanted to do more and I got into working
for home builders here in Jersey and started building some homes,
you know, big. Luckily I got I'm a guy who
was absolutely phenomenal businessman, phenomenally organized, and we used to
build homes up in Rio Vista and Mahwa and Alpine,
(05:37):
big big homes and it was a small crew, but
super efficient, super detail oriented like and everything was just
the quality of the work was through the roof. But
I learned a lot from him and building those kind
of being on those kind of houses and house sites
and everything. And then I went into it on my
own and you know, clearing the lot, foundation, drain.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
In the whole house all the way through. Is this
was the world I was living in.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
And you know, we were building a lot of projects
and then you know, doing additions at a level of
stuff like that, and redoing decks that were in the backyard,
and we're doing this gorgeous We're putting all this time
and love and effort into designing and building these beautiful kitchens,
for instance, and then you walk out the door onto
this piece of rectangle deck and it's splintering. And then
(06:29):
the rails are made. I mean, you know, I used
to make mahogany rails for interiors, right, like gorgeous rails
that would take a lot of time and a lot
of love. And then you build a deck outside and
you slap together you know, two by two ballusters on
two by fours and cap it with a two by
six and treated lumber, and you call them, this a
(06:49):
deck on a house like that.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
It was a mentality though. It was the mentality back then,
and it was just like, hey, a place outside to sit.
I'm looking at the pictures in your book Deck Rebellion,
and these are these are like two three tier decks
with partially semi circle. You have a hot tub on
the outside, you have uh or leads to the patio
in the pool, you have double decker decks. It's it's
(07:11):
just a whole new bird here. That's how did that
mentality change over the years.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
That's a good question, Chris. So.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Basically, back in the day, decks were pretty much done
by the framers who was framers who were framing the house,
and deck guys became were more like above average framers.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Right.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
For the most part, There's some certain guys that you know,
I read their books when I was a kid, and
I'm actually, you know, honored to call them my friends now.
And they they did some really amazing stuff. But these
guys were craftsmen. They were they were high end carpenters
(07:53):
that decided they were going to build redwood and mahogany
decks outside. But for the majority of everything that's going on,
it was above average framers, and they were just putting
it together. And in the beginning, when I first started,
I was like a painter that had two colors.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
On my palate.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
I had pressure treated, I had cedar, and maybe I
had some redwood if I could get it, and that
was it.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Today I've got every color.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
We've developed so many different types of materials that we
use outside. You know houses now of PVC trim, Well,
we trim all our decks in PVC, and you know,
you paint it once, it's good to go twenty five
thirty five years and it's never going to rot.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Twist and warp.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
So being able to use products and decking, the decking
that we use, we do PVC decking. You're using that
product and then you're putting a kitchen on top of it.
So you're spending this money and you're not looking at
something that's going to have to have maintenance. And I
have a short lifespan. Because a lot of people don't
realize this, but a deck that pressure treat deck, if
(09:01):
you're in a condo or in a townhouse or whatever,
paying your dues, the actuaries say those decks are going
to be replaced every twenty years, so you're paying into
it to have the money to replace that deck in
twenty years. And if you're living in a house and
you're spending a ton of money on a deck, replacing
it in twenty years, I mean that flies by pretty quick,
especially if you're spending big bucks. So you know, people
(09:22):
didn't want to invest the money as much, plus not
covering it limited use. Now with materials that have I mean, geez,
fifty years stay and faid warranty, I mean the decking
is going to be there as long as the house.
That's one of the big things that's changed. Decks are
no longer disposable. Just put them on when you paint
them a few times. When they crap out, we'll get
(09:43):
rid of them. Now it's legit part of the house.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
That's a big deal in real estate of salesmen and
of course experts know about this as well. It's a
permanent structure they can do a lot for in both
acidic value but of course home value.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yes, big time.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
So on Zillos on Zillos top On Zillo's new home
buyer wish list is a beautiful outdoor space and it's
been that way for almost fifteen years. It really accelerated
through COVID, and there was literally times during COVID, so
I would all these real estate agents would call me
(10:21):
up and they would be standing on a property with
a client and showing me pictures of the backyard, asking
me if I can build a beautiful space out there.
And you know, of course, if they have the budget,
I can make it happen. Zoning is good, I can
make it happen. But the thing was that the places
that had beautiful outdoor spaces, we're getting into bidding wars
(10:41):
and people couldn't even buy them. So now it was okay,
we'll buy the house without it and we'll build it.
So legit people, you know, getting a call from a
real estate agent going I'm here to buyer. They're looking
at this house, they love the house, the backyard is crap.
They need something to build outside. Is this something you
could do? Is this what can you do with the space,
(11:02):
And of course it's a very general conversation, but I'm like, yeah,
we can design something really cool, and they're like, okay, Greg,
we'll buy it.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
So that's how important it was, how important it's been.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
And you know, a lot of people through COVID really
woke up to a space because I mean, think about it,
if you have well, at my house, my deck was covered.
So remember back in the day when it was like, okay,
so we'll get together. Everybody bring their own snacks and drinks,
and we'll sit six feet apart and we'll hang out
around the fire pit. Yes, right, because we were all
(11:34):
tired of the zoom cocktail parties that just got really
old or really quick.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
I'm not a big fan of the six feet apart,
but we can get into that at another time, right, right, But.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
This was like, you know, this was like spread out,
be outside. As soon as the drinking started, the six
feet went away. But it was being outside and you know,
if there was any thread or rain, if there was
any kind of showers, if it was too cold or whatever,
we all ended up at my house because I had
to cover. I had the heaters, I had the ceiling fans.
It was an outdoor living so it made everybody feel
(12:05):
comfortable to be, you know, gather outside like that, and
that was that was a huge thing. And a lot
of my friends that that lived through that with me,
their decks are all.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Covered with me as Sean McLear He is a master
deck builder and author of the book Deck Rebellion. I
guess you can call it that. As we've discussed over
the last few decades, and we talked about the materials
are a lot better now and let's throw away it's uh,
it's easier to maintain, and of course they become extra rooms.
But still people sometimes try to overdo the deck or
(12:40):
or maybe they don't do enough deck in a way,
what about how do you work with a potential customer
that wants to put something together and and maybe set
up a master plan if you will, and tell them, hey, yes,
this is a great idea, or maybe you shouldn't do this,
let's try this.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Yes, most people come to me because they have a
fuzzy They know they want a beautiful space, They've seen
something we've done, they have a couple, they have typically
have some wants and needs in their backyard. But they
they don't know. They don't design stuff all the time.
That's not their job. This is they want to do
it once, they want to do it right. And probably
(13:20):
the biggest compliment I get is people that we just
actually just did a video on our YouTube with a client.
They had the house built they've done multiple projects, and
her thing that really resonated with me, and I've heard
many times before.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
This was the first project we did.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
When it was done, there was nothing we looked around
and said, oh, we should have done that, because we
brought up all the options, laid everything out, and a
master plan is key, whether you're going to do the
whole thing or not, at least know what the endpoint
would be.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Right.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
So, if you're going to put in a pool, if
you're going to cover the deck, if you're going to
add a kitchen, if you're going to a fireplace, that's great.
If you're doing just the deck, now you need to
know where all that stuff is going to go, because
what you don't want to do is call me or
call somebody else afterwards and go, oh, guess what we
want to add a kitchen. Well, if we've made the
deck a foot bigger, it would work out. But now
(14:16):
it doesn't really work out. You know where the infrastructure
is not in there for it, or you know, we
just got a pool. We need to we sew a
deck on your on your on your book or on
your website, and we want we want that deck.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
And I go there and I go, yeah, you can't
do it.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
It's the pool's five feet too close to the house,
like literally, or three feet too close to the house
for this to all work out. And inevitably they say, well,
the pool guy said that was a good place for it. It
seemed like a good place. I'm like, yeah, that's because
the pool guy digs holes. He doesn't really care for
the rest of.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
The Yeah, they should know town ordinances too, and how
far some structures can be from others. And again that's
another story for another day.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Well that's yeah, so the setback from the deck, right,
But when they're they're looking at this particular one that
I just dealt with this week was they had a
deck that was there, so the guy came ten feet
off of it. But the deck they had there was
too small to begin with. So had they moved, you know,
had they done the master plan before they built the pool,
(15:19):
they would have known exactly where to put the pool
right so and would and it wouldn't have made a
It wouldn't have made a look at difference whether they
pushed it out ten feet or or where it put
it where it was. There was no barriers for that.
But obviously you're not redoing the pool afterwards, so we
have to design around it.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Interesting showing immaculates with me. We're talking about his book
A Rebellion. What inspires you with some of these designs.
I'm sure you have seen some pretty cool things in
your travels and anything inspired to create something that anybody else,
nobody else has created before.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
I think it's.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
I think I think it's I don't because of my background,
because because of you know, we built a house one
time and I was trying to design the interior and
the exterior and the connection to the garage and multi
level of stuff, and I was having a problem working
it out. And a friend of mine was doing the
site the site work, and I was telling him over
(16:22):
a beer, what what you know? I was having this
issue and this is what I wanted to do, and
I was kind of forced it to do in something
that I wasn't one hundred percent loving. And he says
to me, well, let's just take the whole lockdown by
two feet, and I'm like, wait a second, what the
whole lot?
Speaker 2 (16:36):
What's that going to cost?
Speaker 3 (16:38):
It was pennies compared to the whole build and actually
saved us money because on the other end, because we
didn't have to do the extra stuff I thought we
were going to have to do. So like that, thinking
outside the box was it is kind of like what
I do with. I don't come in with I don't
come in with preconceived notions like oh, we have to
do this. No, we don't have to do anything. Only
(17:00):
rules we have to follow as physics and the zoning department.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
So that's it.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Everything else I can make work. So I'm looking at
the existing architecture of the house. I'm looking at the
views from the house. You know, I've built decks off
of cliffs. I've done hot how hot tubs off the cliffs.
I've done all kinds of crazy stuff. Because that's what
it was, just a matter of all right, what's the
(17:26):
engineering and if we can engineer the George Washington Bridge,
we can engineer a backyard deck. Just matters is it
in the budget and can you actually think of it?
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Well, here's another thing. There's also practicality. I think some
things look great and are pretty awesome, but they're not
always they just don't seem to be as functional as
maybe the maybe you'd want them to be. So talk
about balancing the artistic side of creating a deck, what
you do, and of course making sure there are practical uses,
(17:58):
everything's kind of on the up, but up of course
up to code. But also make sure everything is properly
functional and not useless.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Right, And that's an excellent point. So you may not
know this, but we're the most award winning deck builder
in North America since twenty ten by double digits over
everybody else. There's a lot of guys that copy, a
lot of builders that copy or try to copy what
we do. They see what we do and they try
(18:26):
to do it right, and then they try and top
us and do different things, which is fine, that's great.
There's a lot of really talented guys out there. But
where I see them go off the rails is they
get to a point where they're just trying to be different,
trying to design stuff for the fact of being different,
and they're not taking into account function. For me, form
(18:49):
follows function, it has to flow right. That was one
of the big things early on that I would see
before I really you know, started doing a lot of stuff,
was I would see multi level decks, three little levels.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
It's like, oh, I want a multi level deck.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Okay, so we'll make three levels, but each none of
the levels were even functional.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
They were so small.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
And then what really makes one of my pet piece
is each one would have rails in between it. So
if you're sitting in the couches and I'm sitting on
the table, I have to talk to you through rails.
That makes me nuts.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. It's it's like you're
in jail, right.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Right, Like you're in jail.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
So your question about yes, you know, getting fancy doing
all these things. So one of the things we do
is our team when we're designing, we're putting the furniture
in because we're designing for the furniture and how you
live and interact and sit and where you eat dinner
and what the view is from there. You know, it's
(19:47):
not the structure that's important, it's how you live in
it that's important. We're designing for a feeling. We want
you to feel awesome when you're out there. We want
you to feel when you're in a smaller space, a
small vignette. It's just the family or hanging out with
a friend having a scotch and a cigar. You know,
it's an intimate space. But then when it's a big party.
Everybody's at the same party. People are not isolated on
(20:09):
a little deck down there and a little deck over there,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
It does make sense, yes, you know when people kind
of like having a shout to each other over each other,
just to just to speak.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Right right right, And then you know, you got to
think of pathways. You know, you're putting furniture in there,
you need to have walkways. So it's kind of like
designing a house. You know, you know, this is your
kitchen area, this is your lounge area, this is your
dining area.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
You know, what's the line of side of TV?
Speaker 3 (20:38):
If I'm putting a TV on a fireplace, I want
that TV to be seen from the island at the
kitchen because you know, everybody wants to hang out of
the island, but also the couches and.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
The table because if I'm having everybody.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Over to watch the game, They're going to be spread out,
but they don't want to see the game, you know
what I mean. So that's kind of like thinking about
how that all flows from from a bit little space
to a big space and back again. Is really important
to make well everybody comfortable.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Sewan A machailer. Where can people who are listening to
this program find more about your company and your book,
So you can get.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
The book on dec remodelers dot com also deck Rebellion
dot com. It will leads to the same thing. A
lot of the stuff we're talking about today is on there.
If you'd like to see see me and see me
walking through some spaces and talking about spaces, you can
see that on our on our decro Modelers YouTube channel.
(21:36):
And we've got some cool stuff up on there. You know,
we're testing decks and we did this cool thing where
we shot decks at a fifty caliber rifle shot deck
boards so you can see, you can look at it,
you would be surprised what that what that round does.
And actually we just did another one where we actually
torched three different kinds of deck and so a full
(21:58):
plastic a would compile and a mineral composite which is
a mineral and plastic mix. And you know, with all
the fire issues around the country and here in Jersey
as well, you know, burning embers landing on your deck
and light up.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Your whole house.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
So we want to see, you know, which one of
these would hold up best, and that video is up
there too, and you'd be surprised. It wasn't what I thought.
It wasn't what I thought. But that's the burnt board
challenge that's up there, so you can see it there.
You can get the book on dec remodelers dot com
and if you send me a note on Instagram, I'll
sign the book for you.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
That'll be fantastic. That's that's that's great. You can find
of course sewn all over social media. One more question
about the book, Deck Rebellion. Though all the dicks you
put together, how did you get to narrow it down
to the few you put in the book? A relative few,
if you will.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
That was probably the hardest.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
That was probably the hardest thing that we did in
the whole book was going through that. And you know,
every one of those has a backstory, right, So some
of them were really difficult builds, which kind of like
taint my my my feeling of it, right, and then
some of them were some of them were easy. You
(23:14):
went smooth. But you know, I've had I've had projects
that have won first place national and I wasn't even
going to go shoot them because I was so it
was such a tough build and there was so much,
you know, it was just a lot to build it.
And my people are like, that's gorgeous. You got to go,
you got to shoot that, you got to put it in.
I'm like, okay, fine, and we go and do it
(23:35):
and and it wins, and I'm like, you know, so
I have my team, my team of my designers, and
we all spent a lot of time. We spent two
years putting this book together and picking out all the
different projects and wanting certain projects in there that weren't
finished landscape and weren't camera ready yet. We waited on
(23:56):
a couple of those, but and actually one of the
ones we waited one first place national this year.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
So it was a tough thing.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
But like on my website, there's a thousand pictures of
decks because they're my babies. You know, we're building, we build.
We build close to one hundred beautiful projects a year.
So our big thing is like which ones are we
gonna put up?
Speaker 1 (24:17):
So it's a good question, Sean McLear, really thank you
for being with us here. The book is Deck Rebellion.
You'll find some photos on our website book spectrum dot com.
If you're checking out on the audio podcast. You can
go on book spectrum dot com and find a little
bit more, or of course, your website once.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Again, deck remodelers dot com.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Interesting book, a lot of fun and uh a lot
of good advice in there as well. We didn't even
get into all of that, but Sean, thank you for
being with us here on book Spectrum, Thank you all
for listening, and keep those pages turning.
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