S4 E2- Swift Sword: The True Story of the Marines of MIKE 3-5 in Vietnam, 4 September 1967

September 4, 1967, marks a gruesome and terrifying day for U.S. Marine soldiers stationed in Vietnam. Based on 50 interviews with veterans, author Doyle Glass conveys what it was really like on the front lines of Operation Swift in the newest edition of his novel: Swift Sword: The True Story of the Marines of Mike 3/5 in Vietnam, 4 September 1967.

This exploration of this operation comes from firsthand experiences and extensive research, culminating in a book that truly shows the impact of war as well as the courage and sacrifice of the soldiers.As someone with over a dozen combat vets in my family,

Doyle Glass details the beginning of this 11-day operation in Swift Sword by recounting what the Marines witnessed, quoting their own words. Their accounts are shocking, brutal, and most importantly, very real.This is probably as close as one can get to reliving the terror of up-close personal combat without actually being there. Doyle tells the story in the book and joins us on Books Spectrum

Doyle fills the book with detailed research on the operation, including maps, photos, and a glossary of military terms. For anyone interested in military history, this book provides an unparalleled look into Operation Swift.

Swift Sword on Amazon: Amazon.com: Swift Sword: The True Story of the Marines of MIKE 3/5 in Vietnam, 4 September 1967 eBook : Glass, Doyle : Kindle Store

Doyle Glass is an author, historian, and sculptor dedicated to honoring those who fought for freedom. He is a master at recounting true stories of brave men and women who were outnumbered and out-gunned but continued to battle toe-to-toe with ferocious opponents in war. Doyle Glass was born in Midland, Texas among the fifth generation of a pioneer ranching family who was raised with an appreciation for hard work, adventure, and honor. After earning degrees in history and law from Southern Methodist University, he completed law school and worked as an Assistant District Attorney in Texas. Later, he served as Assistant Attorney General in Kentucky, prosecuting some of the worst violent crimes in the state. In 2000, Glass turned to the arts as a way to tell stories of his childhood heroes. He conceived and sculpted a bronze statue of John Squires, who braved enemy fire to save others during WWII and received the Medal of Honor. The statue stands in downtown Louisville, Kentucky as a reminder of the sacrifices made by local citizens who fought and died for freedom. In 2008, Glass designed and sculpted the Texas Medal of Honor Memorial, dedicated to George O’Brien who earned the Medal of Honor during the Korean War. The memorial stands at the International Artillery Museum in Saint Jo, Texas as a symbol recognizing those who earned America’s highest award for combat valor.

Episode Transcript

(00:05):
Welcome to this edition of Book Spectrum. I'm your host, Chris Cordanny.
This is where we talk with writerswho are not necessarily seasoned authors, but
they come from varied other professions,perhaps across the spectrum with me as an
artist, a sculptor who has dedicatedmuch of his life's work to honoring those
who served to protect our nation andfreedom around the world. He has created

(00:29):
monuments, he has created statues,and now has a book describing a major
battle from the Vietnam War. He'sactually written books centering around the Vietnam War
in the past. This one featuresstories from soldiers who were there. This
book is called Swift Sword, TheTrue Story of the Marines of Mike three
to five in Vietnam, four Septembernineteen sixty seven. Welcome to Book Spectrum,

(00:55):
Doyle Class. Thank you, Chris. It's an honor to be here.
Well, it's great to have youhere too. What inspired you to
tell the story of this particular battlein a book today. I was inspired
back in two thousand and seven bythe Greatest Generation and what I saw with
saving Private Ryan Band of Brothers,and I wanted to do something along those

(01:18):
same lines for the men who servedin the Vietnam War, who are often
the sons of the greatest generation.And I wanted to tell a specific story,
a real story, a real timecombat story, to show the harrowism,
the fear, the terror, thegallantry of a battle that was not

(01:40):
known. Swift Sword. September fourth, nineteen sixty seven was the first day
of Operations Swift in the Cason Valleyof South Vietnam. And it was a
harrowing small arms combat battle that producedtwo Medal of Honor recipients. It's a

(02:00):
score of Navy Cross recipients, SilverStar. It showed the best of our
veterans, the best of our Vietnamveterans, and the best of our American
soldiers. And once I found outabout that particular battle on that one day,
I knew I had to write aboutit. How did you find out
about it? The Internet? Google? There we go. That usually helps.

(02:21):
It looks fascinating because in schools youdon't read a lot about the individual
battles of most of these wars.You hear about maybe some of the big
ones of the Revolutionary War, maybeWorld War two, the Civil War.
You don't hear a lot about theVietnam war. And part of that reason
is the political atmosphere following the VietnamWar. The veterans were not treated,

(02:43):
in my opinion, like they shouldhave, and that's part of my mission
is to honor them as that theyare in their seventies, were older or
passed away, and a lot ofthe engagements were simply small, smaller.
They were not on the scale ofa Battle of the Bulge, or of
a Gettysburg, or of the Normandyinvasion and Operation Swift, which was a

(03:04):
two week operation that involved fully theloss of over one hundred servicemen. The
first day of that battle was asmall scale, but just as ferocious as
Iwajima as I mentioned Normandy or theBattle of the Bulge. So part of
that reason is the scale. Andonce I sit once again the political atmosphere,

(03:27):
let's get to that political atmosphere.This is a war when soldiers came
home and from many accounts, weretreated as enemies and oppressors rather than people
who were defending others. What thoseI remember watching an old commercial about veterans
who weren't treated well. One stuckin my mind, and it was again
from decades ago, but one stuckin my mind with the veterans, saying
that he was spat upon by bysome people and yelled at when he came

(03:51):
home, never heralded as a hero. What people don't realize is display what
any thought leaders of the sixties andearly seventies may have thought about the war
at the soldiers in Vietnam were reallyfighting to help and protect people who were
unable to fight for themselves, andthat's never put in perspective. That's correct,
that's exactly correct. The true storyhas never been told. An example,

(04:14):
one of the Medal of Honor recipientsa kid named Larry Peters who was
just twenty and from New York.His first tour of duty, he worked
at an orphanage in Denang, helpingout these children, and that's one of
the main reasons he went back fora second tour, was to help out
the people. He loved the people, and he loved taking care of those

(04:35):
kids. But of course they neededsergeants on the front line, and he
was the first volunteer to go fight, so Father Vincent Cappadano, the other
Medal of Honor recipient, also fromNew York, a Catholic priest who wasn't
supposed to be on that battlefield.They're supposed to be back in the rear

(04:56):
with the gear, but he hadto be with his marines and Navy corman
and lost his life trying to savelives and saving souls while the entire company
is being attacked by scores of veteranNorth Vietnamese troops. So these stories of
heroism are simply not told, andI felt it was my mission to tell

(05:16):
it. The unsung heroes are theunsung protectors of others, if you will,
absolutely The book I'm talking about isSwift Sword, The True Story of
the Marines of Mike three to fivein Vietnam, four September nineteen sixty seven.
Author Doyle glasses with me unbooked Spectrump. I'm Chris Gordanny as the host,
Doyle. How did you find themarines? Track them down, if

(05:38):
you will, who were there andgot them to tell their stories for Swift
Sword? I met a lot ofthem through the Marines that I met with
my first book, Lines of Medina, and simply reached out so that I
had veracity to them. They wouldlook at the prior book and saw that
I was trying to tell their storycorrectly and I simply said, would you

(06:01):
be willing to have me interview youand to record the interview. Now,
a lot of the veterans, orsome of the veterans, were not comfortable.
A lot of them suffered from posttraumatic stress syndrome and remembering these terrifying
events was too much, and Itried to be very respectful of that and

(06:23):
only speak to those veterans who wantedto tell their story. And once I
spoke with the commander on the ground, Lieutenant J. D. Murray,
a Navy Cross recipient who still ispretty much the leader of the group.
Once I interviewed him, then atthings just kind of fell into place with

(06:45):
who to contact, who's email,and then I would sit down, schedule
a time, and I would recordtheir interview. Doyle, when talking to
these fine soldiers, I understand therewas a false account in there. How
did you kind of figure out whatwas going on, figure out which was
right, which was wrong? Howwas the fact checking, or let's just
say, the vetting of the stories. That's very difficult to do. And

(07:09):
when someone tells their story, andthis specifically this kind of environment, you'd
default to what they're telling you becausethey were there. So what I had
to simply do was rely on theother veterans with regard to this specific account,
and to truly spend a lot oftime vetting with a number of these

(07:32):
individuals. Was this account true?If not, why, and then simply
trust the weight of numbers with theveterans who were there. And once again,
that's a very difficult. But whenyou've got the men telling you what
happened, you have to go withthat, and that's what I did.

(07:55):
Doyle glances with me on books Spashfrom the book Swift Sword The True Story
of the Marines three to five inVietnam, four September nineteen sixty seven.
I do need to point out tothe listeners of book Spectrum here this is
the second edition of the book.What are some of the differences between this
one and the first edition. That'sa great question, It's an awesome question.

(08:16):
When the first book came out,I had a lot going on with
my life. My wife at thetime was fighting terminal cancer, so trying
to write a book like this wasdifficult. The first book came out in
twenty fourteen, and in many waysI put that chapter behind me, felt
good about it. Then, asI'm working on a further book. I

(08:39):
have another book that's in the worksnow. The thought came, we need
to resurrect or two prior books becausethey're great and people need to know about
them. And changes with Amazon,KDP and access was part of that.
So I read the first sentence ofthe first edition of Swift Sword, and
I immediately came away, something ismissing. It's not there. What is

(09:07):
missing? And it's one of thosethings that it's so obvious that it's not
obvious. And the missing element werethe voices of the marines themselves and the
navy Corman. I have access toall of the interviews, and I said,
I said to myself, that's themissing piece. I'm telling their story.
I wasn't there. They have totell their story. So the narrative

(09:30):
that existed in twenty fourteen when itwas first published, I simply incorporated the
voices of the men that were there, the terror, the spirituality, the
camarade, camaraderie, the men fromdifferent parts of the country, different backgrounds.
You can feel all of that withtheir quotes. And it made literally

(09:56):
all the difference in the world tobringing this story a lot, not that
it wasn't alive in twenty fourteen,But now it's truly alive. And what
was remarkable to me in a badways that a lot of the guys that
I interviewed back in two thousand andeight have passed away, and a lot
of that is cancer related from agentorange to exposure. And that was more

(10:20):
of a reason for me to getthis story out in their own words,
that's the key, their own words. We talked a little bit about how
these soldiers were receiving when they camehome and even years beyond the things they
got was again being treated like enemies, being treated not as kindly as a

(10:43):
lot of other soldiers coming home.We have a serious problem with veterans of
the Vietnam War suffering from illnesses orpost traumatic stress syndrome that they accumulated during
the war. I mean accumulian wasnot a great word, but you understand
where I'm going with they contracted orwere wound up with and after the war.
There are also of too large ofThere is also too large of a

(11:07):
number of a homeless problem here,a huge homeless veteran problem. Many of
them are also Vietnam vets. Howcan our listeners try to help veterans of
the Vietnam War who are either sufferingfrom some kind of sickness, cancer or
obviously PTSD, or even homelessness.Well, the first thing is knowledge.

(11:28):
I would say the majority of thepeople today, my kids don't know much
about Vietnam at all. I mean, I don't know if many people can
still find it on a map.So the first thing is learning. My
wife and I watched the entire KenBurns documentary on the Vietnam War, and
it was very well done, justshowing the larger picture, picking up swift

(11:50):
Sword or lines of Medina, andjust reading a snapshot of what some of
these men went through. That's thefirst thing. To know what they went
through in Vietnam, and then tolearn what the reception was like at home,
and to not whitewash that it wasnot overall good in many many ways,

(12:15):
and to realize that, and thento honor them and said, PTSD
it's a real thing, Agent Orange, it's a real thing. And the
cancer create related from that. Sowith regard to the homeless problem, I
would start with the knowledge and thendo what we can to help them and
get them off the streets, getthem associated with different veterans, organizations like

(12:39):
the Vietnam Veterans Association to help themand honor them. A lot of these
guys are in their mid seventies andolder, so they're in the later stages
of life. Anything we can doto give them that belated honor and help,
we should do. Doyle glances withme. He's the author of the
book Swift Stored The True Story ofthe Marines of Mike three to five in

(13:01):
Vietnam four September nineteen sixty seven.You've written a couple of other books on
Vietnam for this one, and I'msupposed for the others as well. Correct
me if I'm wrong. You've visitedthe country, so I'll do some research.
I did, actually, I certainlydid. I had to honor in
two thousand and nine to go backto Vietnam with the Veterans of Operations Swift

(13:26):
the men from Swift Sword, andnot only did we tour the country,
but we went on a trek inthe Quisson Valley, through rice paddies,
through villages, and the people,especially in the countryside of Vietnam, were
incredibly friendly. Just a wonderful experience, and we were able with the help

(13:46):
of a former NBA colonel who wason the other side during this particular battle,
who's now was now a friend ofthese guys. We found the battlefield,
we found the knoll of Operation Swift, and it was a surreal spiritual
experience to watch these men and towatch them pray, and it was incredible

(14:11):
for me to watch. Of course, I can't have any kind of knowledge
of what they went through, butit was an incredible honor. Several of
those guys who I went to Vietnamwith have passed away, so to have
that opportunity, I'm it was greatto go, and it was incredible to
go. Did you want to sue, where did you find a French plantation
over there when you were in Vietnam? The interestingly enough, not specifically,

(14:37):
but the French influence, especially inSouth Vietnam is real. The coffee,
the French press Vietnamese coffee is incredibleand it's never been replicated. I've tried
to find it in the States andit's just not the same. So not
a plantation, but the French influence, especially in the South is pretty distinct.
What were the attitudes of the peopletowards you and possibly Americans? I

(14:58):
guess general or at least did youwere able to feel that out when you
were in South Vietnam, actually Vietnamat the time. We flew into Hanoi,
North Vietnam during the war, andI was a little apprehensive at first
that being a communist country, thewhole country's communist, and a little wary
of the attitude. In the norththey were a little more reserved. But

(15:22):
once we started going and seeing differentplaces, and especially moving south, the
people were incredible, incredibly friendly andincredibly open. Like I said, especially
in the countryside when we were searchingfor the swift battlefield. The friendly faces.
Just an incredible good experience and Ifelt no negative feeling from the people

(15:50):
when I was there, and infact, talking to the NVA colonel,
who was a great gentleman as well, he said, you know, after
the Americans left, we had tofight the Chinese, so we've been basically
trying to get people out of ourcountry. So not getting into the politics
of it, but it was avery enlightening and good experience. When you

(16:12):
did the research for the book,which of course includes your visit, what
was the most significant or made impactfulmoment? Oh wow, that's there are
so many I would say the instantheroism when not giving away too much of
the book, but there was anambush. Basically, the marines walked into

(16:34):
an ambush, and the training ofthese fine marines and the nearly instantaneous heroism
that they exhibited was extremely impactful.The spiritual element of it, Father Cappadano.
There's one one marine, Carlton Clark, who literally had a spiritual vision

(16:56):
on the battlefield while the combat wasgoing on. I would say those are
the most impactful with regard to thebattle. And the second most impactful thing,
and it is probably just as equal, was the getting to simply get
getting to know these guys, knowingtheir story, what they went through,

(17:18):
what they have gone through since returningback home. The friendships I have made
I will always always value. SoI would say those are the two most
impactful things. On the other sideof that scale, there are always some
difficult stories if you're trying to pullin some accounts and do some research and
find of what really happened and duringthese battles and the inner and most thoughts

(17:40):
of the soldiers and possibly even thosethey were fighting, or at least what
they might have been thinking about.Can you share maybe one of the more
difficult stories or portions of the book. You really had to put in there.
A lot of the guys, andwe're talking eighteen, nineteen twenty year
old kids who a few months beforewere in high school or you know,

(18:07):
in driving around in their Jalopy,and to put them into this extreme combat,
it's obviously an incredible amount of pressure. So a lot of the guys
felt a lot of range, sayright after the battle, and wanting to
kill any Vietnamese that they saw becausetheir buddies dead. That's difficult to write

(18:30):
about, it, It's true,and their ability to not follow through with
that, to control themselves is admirable. But that that psychological pressure that these
that we put these young men throughwhen we put them in this kind of

(18:51):
situation, that's difficult to write about. There are also situations where there's fear.
You take a young marine one againand put them in this kind of
situation and they don't do their duty. They might run away, or they
might cower for cover. You know, I would probably do the same thing,
but it's so easy for us inan armchair to judge that, and

(19:15):
it's difficult to write about, butit needs to be written about that.
You know, we're not there,We're not in that situation, and this
is the kind of thing that happens. Hopefully that answers your question. Looking
back from the cushion of twenty twentythree and seeing what transpired around the Vietnam
War, whether it be there orat home, and same thing with World

(19:37):
War Two. There seemed to havebeen a glory and a row rod and
a lot of other things surrounding WorldWar Two, and perhaps maybe more experienced
and volunteers soldiers that was probably aneffect as well, But there also seemed
to be an era where the veteransof that war were cared about the country,

(19:59):
found a way to get the backto work. There was an there
was an error of prosperity after that. As far as the Vietnam War is
concerned. Again we talked about howthe soldiers were received by the regular people
and how they were covered by themedia. It was if you look back
at some of that, the entertainersof the world were always speaking out against
the war, and that frustration wastaken out on the soldiers. Afterwards,

(20:19):
we took and again we touched onthis earlier. Here we see soldiers suffer
from post traumatic stress syndrome. Yes, the GI bill was there, but
it seems to be in again.You might know more. You definitely will
know more about this than I would. But it seems to be that that
care, that that's guidance, andthe obvious fact that there was really no

(20:41):
prosperity after that that came after thewar. It just it was not the
same as World War Two, whichjust seemed like they dumped the dump these
young people off who were anywhere betweenas you said nineteen and twenty three,
and said, all right, warsover, your tour has done. Fend
for yourselves, right, And thatthat attitude even was prevalent during the war

(21:02):
itself by the officials that were runningit. For example, the new M
sixteen rifle that these Marines were issuedmalfunctioned to an incredible extent. It would
jam up, and that cost thousandsof lives. On September of the fourth
at probably cost countless lives, andthe officials the powers that be blamed the

(21:26):
young marines and soldiers for not cleaningtheir weapon, when in fact it was
a total manufacturer's problem and error thatwas not fixed until later. The second
issue that happened in Vietnam is thatthese guys were asked to take territory time
and again, the same territory.They would take a hill and then be

(21:49):
ordered off the hill. The Vietnamese, the North Vietnamese would take it.
They'd go back. In World WarTwo, when you took a piece of
territory, you kept it, andthe island hopping and iwa gimus. So
we also had the issue in Vietnamof the replacement new replacements. You would
have a new guy come in toa veteran unit and he was ostracized because

(22:15):
he was likely to do something toget somebody killed. That replacement policy didn't
exist in World War Two. Soyou had the things going on during the
conflict that were bad for the soldiersand marines fighting. And then when they
came home, a lot of theseguys you would grow their hair out and
not wear their uniform because they wouldbe spat on or told to leave a

(22:38):
bar or because of the climate,which I still find kind of hard to
believe, but that was the case. So there were a number of knocks
against those who fought in Vietnam,both during the conflict and later. And
for me, it's you know,let's rectify it at the time is way

(23:02):
past. Let's let's do it now. Doyle, you have focused on Vietnam
and books before when doing so,including this book, what do you want
readers to come out with the mostafter reading that these guys were doing their
duty for their country, that theywere doing what they thought was the right
thing, that many of them stillstill believed they were doing the right thing.

(23:23):
They were doing what their country askedthem to do, laying their lives
on the line. They were doingthe same thing that their fathers who fought
in World War Two did and thosewho fought in Korea. Because during the
Cold War, the threat of communismwas a real thing. You know,
even today we see the issue thetrouble in the Ukraine, I mean,

(23:45):
and with communist China. So thethreat was a real threat. And these
young men were doing what their eldersand their country asked them to do,
and they did it. Doyla Glass, I want to thank you very much
for being with us here on bookSpectrum once again. The title of the
book is Swift Sword, The TrueStory of the Marines of Mike three to

(24:07):
five in Vietnam, four September nineteensixty seven. Check it out. Where
can our listeners find the book andmore about you at website www dot Doyle
Glass dot com. And please becomea subscriber to our newsletter because one of
the things that we do is tryto tell story of heroes of all shapes

(24:29):
and sizes on a regular basis.So also on Facebook, Doyle Glass author,
please follow us there. Doyle,thank you very much for being with
us again. I'm Chris Cordanny.This is book Spectrum where we authors across
the spectrum want to thank you forbeing with us and thank you for listening.