August 2, 2023 • 34 mins
We gain more information on the many different aspects of neurodivergence every day, perhaps non-more important to understand than that of our children. Added on top of their unique learning styles this can make education a potentially daunting venture. Our guest is here to help with just that, from ADHD to Special Education and everything in between and for every, growing brain.
Connect with Helen:
Listen in here or go to Julie's YouTube channel (link below) to watch the video podcast.
Connect with Brain Lady Julie
Do you have a great question or topic you'd like Brain Lady Julie to cover? Think you'd be a great guest? Message our producer Kelli@BrainLadySpeaker.com and let us know.
PLEASE NOTE: The information contained in this podcast is not at any time and for any reason meant to replace the guidance and/or treatment of any health professional. Whether it be a medical doctor, psychologist, psychotherapist, or anyone in the medical field. If you are under the care of such a health professional, remember this is an “added value” and not designed to replace any care you are currently under.
Connect with Helen:
- Helen@DynamisLearningAcademy.com
- 770.282.9931
- DynamisLearningAcademy.com
- YouTube
- Podcast
- Advocacy Brochure
Listen in here or go to Julie's YouTube channel (link below) to watch the video podcast.
Connect with Brain Lady Julie
Do you have a great question or topic you'd like Brain Lady Julie to cover? Think you'd be a great guest? Message our producer Kelli@BrainLadySpeaker.com and let us know.
PLEASE NOTE: The information contained in this podcast is not at any time and for any reason meant to replace the guidance and/or treatment of any health professional. Whether it be a medical doctor, psychologist, psychotherapist, or anyone in the medical field. If you are under the care of such a health professional, remember this is an “added value” and not designed to replace any care you are currently under.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Welcome to brain Lady Speaks with JulieAnderson. Julie brain Lady Anderson is considered
to be one of the nation's topexperts on the brain personality connection. She
has been inspiring her audiences to fireup their brains and ignite positive changes in
their relationships, and now she ishere to bring that knowledge to you.
The information she shares will help thosewho hear it to accelerate their success in
(00:25):
life and business through the discovery oftheir natural gifts and maximizing their brain power.
When you learn to tap into thepotential of your natural gifts and the
power of the brain mind connection,there is no limit to what you can
accomplish. Today and every Wednesday onbrain Lady Speaks, you'll explore the latest
findings to see how they have practicalapplication in your life. And now get
(00:48):
ready to join Julie Anderson on thebrain Lady Speaks radio show. Take it
Away, Julie, Julie Andersons,and I am so excited about our conversation
that we're gonna have today with mywonder full guest, Helen Panos. Helen,
thank you so much for being hereon the brain Lady Speak Show.
Oh thank you for having me.I appreciate you invited me to join you
absolutely my pleasure. And the topicthat we're discussing is so incredibly important and
(01:17):
very timely. We are hearing somuch about neurodivergency and the different brains and
it's a topic that needs to betalked about. So we're going to talk
about it how parents can help theirneurodivergent children. And let me before we
get into the bulk of the conversationhere, let me read real quick for
the audience your bio, so everybodykind of knows a little bit of your
(01:37):
background. You are. Helen Panosis an accomplished educator with over twenty five
years of experience in the public schoolsystem. She began her KATE twelve nationwide
to the tutoring SAT and AC teamand parent advocacy business called Dynamics Learning seven
(01:57):
years ago to help children reach theirpotential. She learns to She listens to
what parents need and matches them tothe right type of tutor. This tutor
helps them then customize a program thatwill motivate and move the child forward in
their academics with ease. Tutors withDynamics with Dynamics have various specialties and can
work and can tutor virtually nationwide orat the child's home in the metro Atlanta
(02:23):
area. So once again, welcomeHelen to the program. Thank you.
I'm excited to talk about this topic. Yeah, you know, I don't
know about you, but you beingin the background that you have, having
been in the education system for thelast twenty five years, have you noticed
(02:44):
I'm sure you probably have, Buthasn't there been like a large increase in
the we have more and more neurodivergentchildren now than we did twenty five years
ago. Yeah, oh yes,I'm seeing it a bit, especially since
I got to use the word COVID. But I'm sure you know I've seen
(03:06):
it before that because I was afive o four chair as well in a
public school system, So definitely,And I think it's just coming more to
light now that let's just say,parents were at home with their kids and
they could see things maybe more clearly, right right. And I think I'm
going to mention a little bit onit when we get into the conversation on
what I think might be contributing tothis even growing even more. But before
(03:29):
we really get into the depth ofit, help our listeners to fully understand
what neurodivergent means, because it kindof is this term that can apply to
a lot of different things than justsimply different learning styles or being different in
the way you do things. Sowhat does it mean? And then we'll
(03:50):
talk about what parents can look for. It really has a lot to do
with it's going to be a medicaldiagnosis, usually under a five O four
section five O four, and thatthere's a lot of different ones, like
you said, and it's the waythe brain reacts and processes things. Let's
just I'll leave in general like that. And so a lot of the most
(04:13):
common I always saw and still seeeven in my company today. And I
saw in public school is ADHD beingvery popular. You're seeing a lot of
dyslexia nowadays. I was seeing thata lot as a five O four chair
and anxiety. Now add anxiety tothat, a lot of mental health issues
going on to today. And I'dsay autism. Autism is becoming very big
(04:40):
as well. So it's the waythe brain processes information that's different from a
normal brain, let's say, right, And they can show up differently in
different people, absolutely differently in differentpeople. A differently depending on what that
category that they might fall into.So you might see it present itself one
(05:00):
way in someone who is on thespectrum versus someone who is now suffering from
anxiety disorders that are very induced orcreated or have come to the surface based
on, like you said, what'shappened over the last five years. And
I might throw in there that Ithink these are a huge, a huge
(05:25):
thing that's Hargut contributor, because it'sreally contributing to all of us becoming more
and more in that add type ofa category where it's because we've literally trained
our brains to have a short attentionspan and to need information very quickly based
on the things that we're doing.So we need to we need to restructure
(05:47):
the way we live our lives.But anyways, that's another topic. So
when you talk about these different thedifferent categories are the different things that you
see. What could a parent lookfor? You mentioned that as parents were
home with their children more during thelockdown, they were beginning to see things.
What are some of the common signsthat a parent might notice in their
(06:11):
child that might make them think,maybe my child's a little bit on this
neurodivergent side. So there's a lotthere too, But I'd say some of
the more common things are number one, the obvious, Maybe scores are dropping.
You see your child not getting theirwork done even though you're like,
oh, and they could be intelligent, right, So I could tell a
(06:33):
story about a gifted kid that I'veseen. He's definitely neurodivergent autism. Kids
are very intelligent, right, Butthen you start to see them not getting
things done in a timely manner,kind of just having difficulty with completing assignments.
Tests. Maybe you start getting emailsfrom teachers that say, they couldn't
(06:54):
finish this test. I'm gonna giveit to them again, you know,
this afternoon. They're gonna have tostay after school to get it done because
you can't really take a test thenext day. Then that gives them the
opportunity to go look answers up,right, So I'm seeing a lot of
executive functioning as well. So I'dlike to describe that as a person like
(07:15):
an administrative assistant that's just totally disorganized. So a disorganizational type of thing you
may see reading math is usually alot of where it kind of shows up.
They're just having difficulty getting that stuffdone, taking too much time to
do things, staying up too late. There's just all kinds of test scores
(07:38):
are very big, and since mostschools are now doing a variety of tests,
not just one major test at theend of the year, you have
the opportunity to kind of pay attentionto that. Right, if you're not
seeing improvement over time, then that'sthat's good because at least parents kind of
get a little bit of a ah, let me pay a little closer attention
(07:59):
to this, so writing, they'reshowing up and writing as well. So
I'd say test scores are going tobe the obvious thing. Teachers, I
always say, we like to keepin contact with the teacher on behalf of
the parent and the student. Sowe will connect We'll ask you to connect
us with your teacher so we canask all the questions that you may not
(08:22):
be able to ask or not knowto ask exactly. Yeah, I would.
I would probably add in there toothat if you really notice a high
frustration level in your child, rightthings that that perhaps, yeah, perhaps
they they used to enjoy doing certainthings and yet now that to have to
(08:43):
sit down and do that piece ofhomework or work on that they become very
frustrated or frustrated in just doing thingsin general. Because they're frustrated at what's
going on in school. It's it'sgonna bleed over into the home life and
into the way that they're interacting.So I think in an unusual level,
like some kids always just just getfrustrated as they're learning new things, period.
(09:05):
But if it's if it's heightened orit has that agitation or anger piece
to it that I think is alsoa clue that the parents might think maybe
we should we should look at things. Now, you mentioned that you've noticed
it increase in it over the lastfew years, But how have you seen
(09:30):
this increase in families in your amongyour your tutoring business and the schools,
even the schools there locally that youinteract with there in the Atlanta area.
UM, I would say, well, I'm on also on an advisory council
for our Spectrum, which is theautism support group here in Atlanta, And
(09:50):
so I mean we're saying more ofthat. Um, they're just not able
to They may be very intelligent andin terms of of the way they verbally
talk to you, let's say,but maybe not in terms of you know,
putting things down on paper or ona computer. So we're seeing that,
(10:11):
we're just seeing a lot of Um, we just helped a young man
who just constantly needs a lot ofhelp. I'm pretty sure it's an executive
functioning issue, they said to her. And this is a lot of wrong
information is being given out. Atone point, they said to the parent,
I guess oh he was adh Iasked her, is the ADHD and
she said yes. And I willask you know, a lot of teachers
(10:33):
aren't going to point blank ask anyparent that question, right, They're just
going to, you know, kindof beat around the bush. They may
give you a hint as a parent, but they're not They're concerned about legality,
right. So but I will aska parent because I'll ask them to
share a psychological with me or anythingthey have that maybe going on at the
(10:54):
school. So we're kind of likeworking as a village together to solve the
problem or at least reduced as manyobstacles that are in the way. So
I'd say, yeah, I mean, this young man was having issues in
geometry, and so he he's definitelygonna have a tutor. He's not getting
(11:16):
a lot of assistance, which hereally needs. Closer to one on one,
I'd say he's not producing that school, but he does it when he's
one on one with a tutor.But he I think he's a slow starter.
He may not get it done.That all kind of hints to ADHD.
But they did have tell her thathe no longer had ADHD. Well
(11:37):
that's not true because once you haveADHD, you always have ADHD. So
I'm not exactly sure who told herthat. But this is an example of
things. I mean, I couldgo on and on about things I'm hearing
and seeing. Even with gifted kids, it's not just people might think this
is only for special ed children orkids that have just Fibo for whatever.
(11:58):
It's just it's everybody. It couldbe high level children also that are example,
Like I have one that i'm tooduring myself who's a now rising third
grader, and he's got sensory issues, sensory processing issues, so I know
when to kind of back off ifI see him getting a little agitated.
(12:18):
He also takes medication, and Iknow a lot of parents are having a
struggle with whether they should medicate akid or not right, And that's I
can understand that that's very difficult.But I've also seen where a child just
can't get anything done. I don'tcare how intelligent they are, that they're
going to need some assistance somehow,someway. And I'm not a big lover
(12:41):
of any drug and this is notreally a show for drugs, but about
talking about prescription drugs, but somethingto look at. And I know a
lot of parents look at other means, like the holistic route and see if
that can help. But I mean, we're definitely seeing it a lot,
and we're getting more and more involvedin pulling in the classroom teacher because I
(13:01):
feel like they listen more when theyknow we're educators and they know Kanna,
oh, they must know, theyknow the inside, so they operate us
a little differently I think from aparent, Yeah, yeah, very much
so. And I might just addin there about it's I agree with you
(13:24):
on the medication side. My backgroundis where I started, like thirty years
ago, was in the field ofnatural health. So I do have this
tendency to always want to go inthat natural route if at all possible.
But throughout all of my brain trainingand all of the education that I've gained
(13:46):
on the brain and psychology and neurosciences, when there is a misfire, when
there is a chemical imbalance, becausesometimes it's it's chemical anxieties or chemical goal
imbalance. Right when that imbalance isthere or the wiring those connections aren't there
at times that that is the bestroute, you know, And I agree,
(14:11):
I like for people to explore thepotential of doing things naturally or being
more creative in physical movement because thebrain loves physical movement and learning, and
we tend to get away from thatand we look at a textbook. Sometimes
just physical movement will help a lot, but at times it is medica.
It comes down to that when you'vetried the other avenues. So I think
(14:35):
we need to remove some of thatstigma, you know. I think what
helped me a lot at one pointin time in my life dealing with a
close relative who needed to be onanti anxiety medications is the person giving me
counsel was like, if you haddiabetes, you would be on diabetic medicine
right if it was if it wasto the point where you couldn't control it
(14:58):
through diet, you would have totake insulin or you would wind up dying
early or having losing limbs or whatever, And like my doctors always say,
there's just some things you can't beat. That's called genes exactly exactly right,
So keep keep an open mind onthat. You know, definitely there are
tactics that you can do that arealternative, but at the end of the
(15:22):
day, sometimes it does in certaincases come down to to a medication that
will balance out chemistry in the brains. Important to think of. So,
how have your tutors then been ableto help support families with neurodivergent children?
(15:43):
How do they? How does howdoes having a tutor? Because I have
to tell you when I was nowI hope a full disclosure, I homeschooled
my kids for sixteen years, seventeensixteen years, seventeen years, something like
that, and I lose track.They're all in their thirties now for many
years, and I have to admitthat I was almost like, I don't
(16:04):
want to get a tutor for mysons. I'm smart, I can do
all of this. And at onepoint when my sons hit high school algebra
was like I could do it,but I couldn't teach it, and it
was they were so the relief thatthey had not having to have that struggle
with their mother was amazing, Likethey could go in once a week,
(16:27):
twice a week, meet with thetutor at the library and they got it.
So what have you what do yourtutors and what have you seen your
tutors be able to help to supportthese families. Well, first, I
want to say, that's an interestingcomment. You may because a lot of
times I get calls where the parentssays, I know I can do this
(16:48):
math or whatever, but he's notgoing to listen to me, and it's
true, and then they're like,you do it because and they do listen
to a total stranger exactly right,And you don't want to raise the anxiety
level in the household, like kids, this is our house, this is
our home. It will not bea battleground. Right. Why have Yeah?
(17:12):
So anyways, so yeah, firstof all, I have a lot
of like specialty type people. Ihave a reading specialist, I have um,
you know, special ed gifted certificationlike I am. So that helps
as well because now we understand whatprograms are in as well and what's required
(17:33):
because a lot of those are requiredby law and there's things they should follow
along with. So um, Iwould say, yes, there's my tutors
assist quite a bit, and weall because there's twenty of us or up
to twenty of us, so wecollaborate together. Um So if I don't
know an answer or my tutor doesn't, they know, to message me and
talk to me about it, andthen they then I might reach out to
(17:56):
somebody else and I'm always I dothat a lot. Plus we have meetings,
so and then I might even connecta tutor with one of my other
tutors so they can have the discussionabout what else can they try, strategies
or tips, anything like that thatcan help, you know, assist the
child. And you know, we'lljump into five O four meetings RTI EIP
(18:19):
meetings and help out that way aswell, so that we're listening and there's
another pair of ears that understands thelaw and understands what you can get as
a parent because of your child beingneurodivergent. Oh, I love that because
I think there's it becomes so overwhelmingoftentimes to the parents in this type of
(18:40):
a situation, especially in the beginningof finding out what this whole neurodivergent world
is about. And if you're ifthe parent becomes too anxious, right,
that just creates more anxiety for thechild. Right, and then as the
brain lady, you know, youget into all those negative emotional spaces and
that's so bad across the board.Now you can't Now the child can't pay
(19:03):
attention, even worse than their baselinebecause of all of the anxiety and attention.
So I love the fact that youare able to come in and advocate
for the families and kind of bethat outside voice that has more knowledge on
the legalities and what's available and whatshouldn't shouldn't be said or shouldn't shouldn't be
(19:26):
done. So that's yeah, becauseif you think about if you go get
a psychological so the psychologist has alreadyseen your child and you you've done interviews
or whatever, and then they writeit up. Then they just hand it
to you, right, and thenyou take it back to the school.
So now what I mean they're notin a meeting with you. You really
do need an advocate. And Ialso, if if it's too into i
(19:51):
EPs, I have somebody else Iresource that out too, that also was
an ist and I you know,a special head teacher, so she has
her own company so we work togethera lot. So I have a lot
of resources as well because I havetwenty five years experience as an educator,
so I understand a lot what's goingon, and all my teachers keep me
in tune with what's going on.Yeah, and I hear from a lot
(20:15):
of parents too. So for thelisteners or the watchers, if you could
explain what or just real quick definethe IEP and what those acronyms are,
those letters are that you're using,because we might have listeners going, oh,
maybe my child's neurodivergent, but whatwhat did she say? Yeah?
(20:36):
So usually and I have blogs onthis, so they can go to my
website and see blogs related to rTI, SST Those are all like supports
that they first begin with, andsome states may come slightly different. So
you may be hearing this this interviewin another state and I'm in Georgia.
But so, but they're all thesame thing. They have to go through
(20:59):
some type of support where teachers areusually gathering data at first to see what
is going on if there really isa problem, and then so that here
in Georgia is called SST RTI that'sa response to intervention, and then there's
three tiers to response to intervention andall those tiers they're doing three different things.
And then if you hit the verytop tier, you may be then
(21:21):
eligible for special AD which is whereyou get an individualized educational plan and that's
very strictly followed by law. Sothe five O four plan is and I
have a video on the differences betweenfive O four and IPS and you can
get that through my YouTube channel.But the website, yes is www dot
(21:45):
Dynamos Learning Academy dot com and sowe have you know, things in there
also a lot of blogs on thewhole tiered system five O four or i
EPs, but they are they willget you i EPs will get you modifications
(22:07):
and you may have an assistant andthey get might get pulled out, depends
on how the county in the schoolsystem approaches that IEP in their system and
in their state UM, and they'llget more individualized attention if it's severe enough.
UM five O four plans are underthe Americans with Disabilities Act. It's
called the Section five four plan whereyou can get accommodations and a lot of
(22:29):
this is usually a five O fourplan, but you have to have a
medical diagnosis from a doctor first,right, like a pediatrician or a psychologist
or whatever. So those um usuallyintel extended time, small group testing.
Um, you know, sit inthe front of the room. There's other
There's a lot of things and youcan even google that, but definitely UM,
(22:53):
I'd say, yes, Uh,there's there's a lot that parents need
to know about. And the higherup in that level that you go the
five O four the i EP ismore legalities involved in it, and they
and then you as a parent,should know what your rights are. They
give it to you. But it'sbetter that you get informed ahead of time
because you got to know that onceyou start that process or they start it,
(23:18):
they need to get it done inninety days. So there's there's a
lot of time limits on the IEPas well for them to get that done.
And only the five O four plantoo. Yeah, So those are
things that you as the as theadvocates when you tutor, these are things
that you can help the parents understand. All that small print so to speak.
(23:41):
Yes, and again it's pretty detailed, but you can google it.
But the five O four plans andit really just depends on what your diagnosis
is on and the need has tobe shown what the accommodations are going to
be, and then those accommodations goon into taking sat ACT and you gotta
know you have to apply for thoseto the college board ahead of time to
(24:03):
get those accommodations. So there's alot to kind of be aware of for
parents. Yeah, yeah, alot out there. It gets very complicated
when it gets into the for lackof the red tape. Yes, yes,
yeah, all right, Well,what are some of the tips that
(24:26):
you can share with parents who aredealing with either a new diagnosis of being
their child being neurodivergent, or they'veknown it for a while and they're kind
of at that point where they're like, I just don't know what to do.
What are some of the tips ofthings that they can do to support
that child and reduce that anxiety athome and keep home a safe place.
(24:52):
Yeah. I would follow people ona podcast where like this, like we're
talking. I also have my ownpodcast, Smart Parents, Successful Students Podcasts.
It's on Spotify and some other placesas well, and I have different
guests. They're not all about neurodivergentstuff. But again I would look that
(25:12):
up and start just you know,I think your best bet for parents is
to arm themselves with a lot ofknowledge ahead of time and start reading from
even when your children are five.You know, I just refer to a
child that was four to my outsideresource that I was talking about a few
(25:32):
minutes ago for because they weren't beingtreated correctly through the i EP. So
that's that's something you really need toarm yourself with earlier on and not wait
till things show up and then itkind of continues to multiply and get much
more difficult for parents, and thennow you're like, where do I turn.
(25:55):
A lot of outside resources out there. Psychology today is terrific, you
know, Heather right consulting is whoI'm kind of talking about, is who
is my kind of go to person, So she rights wr ight, But
there's a lot of different psychologists.Your pediatrician should be your number one person
(26:17):
to talk to immediately, I wouldsay, And then definitely the teachers to
see what is it they're seeing.And then a lot of times they're giving
like a form to complete with abunch of questions and they fill that out
and then you can take that too, and then the pediatrician will ask for
that. So goes straight to thepediatrician usually and sealed envelopes, and then
they use that plus talking to youand other people, and then they kind
(26:42):
of gather, you know, throughan evaluation on whether your child might be
ADHD or something else. Yeah,and then no way for you as well,
right right, And I would echothe earlier the better. There's such
a beautiful brain. It's just sobeautiful, and there's so many stages of
(27:02):
development where the brain is prime fornew neural connections, where the brain is
just it's just ready to grow andit is hungry for growth. And it's
no different in a neurodivergent child.That growth period is still there, that
desire is still there. They're justnot necessarily able to learn in what we
(27:25):
would call that traditional setting, buttheir brain is still beautiful and in that
spot where it needs that that food, that that knowledge and that extra stuff.
So the more that you can dothat at the earlier stage, the
better the brains can develop, andthe better the self confidence of the child
(27:45):
too. Then you get into thatpsychology piece right where the getting that site
that child to feel fine with thislabel that's been slapped on it, right
exactly, Yeah, and now andWe've talked about a lot of the resources
and we're we're going to wrap upthis conversation now. It's such a such
(28:07):
a powerful conversation. Again, thankyou so much for having this this conversation
with me today, Helen. Ithink that it's it's very valuable for a
lot a lot of different people andjust opening up the conversation and demystifying the
conversation and desensitizing, right, sothat so that it's not it's not a
(28:32):
whisper. Oh my right, andhopefully I think that used to be how
it was for sure, Yeah,because my niece is a neurodivergent person.
And back then in the day,you're right, I think people thought,
oh, there's something wrong with thesepeople if they're like this or whatever.
But um, I can assure youthere's a lot of this going on and
(28:56):
you are not the only person outthere parents that are experiencing it. Yeah.
I wanted to let everybody know,keep looking, keep talking to people
like myself and Julie and other people. If we don't have the answer,
we will help you get the rightperson and the answer. And that's not
us alone. That's all right,perfect, and that's a perfect segue because
(29:21):
you have an advocacy brochure that canbe downloaded. So we're going to pop
up that link on the screen.And then for those who are listening to
this in your mobile office or asa podcast, not at watching the video
here, you can go to thepodcast description, the show description or on
(29:44):
the YouTube description and that all ofthese, all of the ways to get
in touch with Helen will be onthat as well as how you can pick
up that brochure. And as shementioned, she has a podcast, so
follow Helen on the podcast. HerYouTube channel again, Smart Parents Successful Students
is her podcast, and the YouTubechannel is a lot of numbers. We
(30:07):
got to get Helen to a lotof numbers and letters. We got to
get Helen to put that AT signon there so it'll be easier, so
it'll be at. We'll work withthat. You can follow her Dynamics Learning
Academy on LinkedIn is also another wayto stay connected. It's the same on
Facebook and Instagram, so lots ofdifferent ways to connect with Helen. And
(30:32):
if you have questions, you cansend her an email and be able to
stay in touch with her that wayor give her a call. So once
again, Helen Thank you so verymuch for being a guest on the Brain
Lady Speaks podcast today and sharing thisdiscussing this very timely topic with us.
Thank you for having me again.I appreciate it, and yes, this
(30:53):
is a very important topic. Again, want to encourage parents to reach out
to people that have some information aboutit and never and don't give up.
There's a lot of support and resourcesout there and within the school system,
and you may get blocked, butyou need to keep pushing and nicely and
get what you need for your child. Beautiful. I love it. I
(31:15):
love it. I echo that allright, And for everyone listening, thank
you so much. We are honoredand that you took the time to spend
with us this morning or this afternoon, whenever you are watching this wherever you
are at in the world, becausewe have many listeners internationally, so we
appreciate you and we value you.Because this is such a timely topic,
(31:37):
we would love a little bit ofsocial media love. Give us some thumbs
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(32:23):
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(32:45):
guest. Maybe you've read a bookI based on this subject because I'm working
more and more in corporates. WhenI'm working with corporates, I'm working with
that neurodivergent category. So I'm readinga lot of books and white papers and
study that have been done. Soif you find something interesting. I'm always
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(33:07):
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(33:27):
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(33:50):
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(34:12):
encourage you to take that all right. For that, we will wrap up
the show once again. Thank you, Helen and everyone who is listening and
watching. And I want everyone totake a nice deep breath, go out
there and simply enjoy every moment.
Welcome to brain Lady Speaks with JulieAnderson. Julie brain Lady Anderson is considered
to be one of the nation's topexperts on the brain personality connection. She
has been inspiring her audiences to fireup their brains and ignite positive changes in
their relationships, and now she ishere to bring that knowledge to you.
The information she shares will help thosewho hear it to accelerate their success in
(00:25):
life and business through the discovery oftheir natural gifts and maximizing their brain power.
When you learn to tap into thepotential of your natural gifts and the
power of the brain mind connection,there is no limit to what you can
accomplish. Today and every Wednesday onbrain Lady Speaks, you'll explore the latest
findings to see how they have practicalapplication in your life. And now get
(00:48):
ready to join Julie Anderson on thebrain Lady Speaks radio show. Take it
Away, Julie, Julie Andersons,and I am so excited about our conversation
that we're gonna have today with mywonder full guest, Helen Panos. Helen,
thank you so much for being hereon the brain Lady Speak Show.
Oh thank you for having me.I appreciate you invited me to join you
absolutely my pleasure. And the topicthat we're discussing is so incredibly important and
(01:17):
very timely. We are hearing somuch about neurodivergency and the different brains and
it's a topic that needs to betalked about. So we're going to talk
about it how parents can help theirneurodivergent children. And let me before we
get into the bulk of the conversationhere, let me read real quick for
the audience your bio, so everybodykind of knows a little bit of your
(01:37):
background. You are. Helen Panosis an accomplished educator with over twenty five
years of experience in the public schoolsystem. She began her KATE twelve nationwide
to the tutoring SAT and AC teamand parent advocacy business called Dynamics Learning seven
(01:57):
years ago to help children reach theirpotential. She learns to She listens to
what parents need and matches them tothe right type of tutor. This tutor
helps them then customize a program thatwill motivate and move the child forward in
their academics with ease. Tutors withDynamics with Dynamics have various specialties and can
work and can tutor virtually nationwide orat the child's home in the metro Atlanta
(02:23):
area. So once again, welcomeHelen to the program. Thank you.
I'm excited to talk about this topic. Yeah, you know, I don't
know about you, but you beingin the background that you have, having
been in the education system for thelast twenty five years, have you noticed
(02:44):
I'm sure you probably have, Buthasn't there been like a large increase in
the we have more and more neurodivergentchildren now than we did twenty five years
ago. Yeah, oh yes,I'm seeing it a bit, especially since
I got to use the word COVID. But I'm sure you know I've seen
(03:06):
it before that because I was afive o four chair as well in a
public school system, So definitely,And I think it's just coming more to
light now that let's just say,parents were at home with their kids and
they could see things maybe more clearly, right right. And I think I'm
going to mention a little bit onit when we get into the conversation on
what I think might be contributing tothis even growing even more. But before
(03:29):
we really get into the depth ofit, help our listeners to fully understand
what neurodivergent means, because it kindof is this term that can apply to
a lot of different things than justsimply different learning styles or being different in
the way you do things. Sowhat does it mean? And then we'll
(03:50):
talk about what parents can look for. It really has a lot to do
with it's going to be a medicaldiagnosis, usually under a five O four
section five O four, and thatthere's a lot of different ones, like
you said, and it's the waythe brain reacts and processes things. Let's
just I'll leave in general like that. And so a lot of the most
(04:13):
common I always saw and still seeeven in my company today. And I
saw in public school is ADHD beingvery popular. You're seeing a lot of
dyslexia nowadays. I was seeing thata lot as a five O four chair
and anxiety. Now add anxiety tothat, a lot of mental health issues
going on to today. And I'dsay autism. Autism is becoming very big
(04:40):
as well. So it's the waythe brain processes information that's different from a
normal brain, let's say, right, And they can show up differently in
different people, absolutely differently in differentpeople. A differently depending on what that
category that they might fall into.So you might see it present itself one
(05:00):
way in someone who is on thespectrum versus someone who is now suffering from
anxiety disorders that are very induced orcreated or have come to the surface based
on, like you said, what'shappened over the last five years. And
I might throw in there that Ithink these are a huge, a huge
(05:25):
thing that's Hargut contributor, because it'sreally contributing to all of us becoming more
and more in that add type ofa category where it's because we've literally trained
our brains to have a short attentionspan and to need information very quickly based
on the things that we're doing.So we need to we need to restructure
(05:47):
the way we live our lives.But anyways, that's another topic. So
when you talk about these different thedifferent categories are the different things that you
see. What could a parent lookfor? You mentioned that as parents were
home with their children more during thelockdown, they were beginning to see things.
What are some of the common signsthat a parent might notice in their
(06:11):
child that might make them think,maybe my child's a little bit on this
neurodivergent side. So there's a lotthere too, But I'd say some of
the more common things are number one, the obvious, Maybe scores are dropping.
You see your child not getting theirwork done even though you're like,
oh, and they could be intelligent, right, So I could tell a
(06:33):
story about a gifted kid that I'veseen. He's definitely neurodivergent autism. Kids
are very intelligent, right, Butthen you start to see them not getting
things done in a timely manner,kind of just having difficulty with completing assignments.
Tests. Maybe you start getting emailsfrom teachers that say, they couldn't
(06:54):
finish this test. I'm gonna giveit to them again, you know,
this afternoon. They're gonna have tostay after school to get it done because
you can't really take a test thenext day. Then that gives them the
opportunity to go look answers up,right, So I'm seeing a lot of
executive functioning as well. So I'dlike to describe that as a person like
(07:15):
an administrative assistant that's just totally disorganized. So a disorganizational type of thing you
may see reading math is usually alot of where it kind of shows up.
They're just having difficulty getting that stuffdone, taking too much time to
do things, staying up too late. There's just all kinds of test scores
(07:38):
are very big, and since mostschools are now doing a variety of tests,
not just one major test at theend of the year, you have
the opportunity to kind of pay attentionto that. Right, if you're not
seeing improvement over time, then that'sthat's good because at least parents kind of
get a little bit of a ah, let me pay a little closer attention
(07:59):
to this, so writing, they'reshowing up and writing as well. So
I'd say test scores are going tobe the obvious thing. Teachers, I
always say, we like to keepin contact with the teacher on behalf of
the parent and the student. Sowe will connect We'll ask you to connect
us with your teacher so we canask all the questions that you may not
(08:22):
be able to ask or not knowto ask exactly. Yeah, I would.
I would probably add in there toothat if you really notice a high
frustration level in your child, rightthings that that perhaps, yeah, perhaps
they they used to enjoy doing certainthings and yet now that to have to
(08:43):
sit down and do that piece ofhomework or work on that they become very
frustrated or frustrated in just doing thingsin general. Because they're frustrated at what's
going on in school. It's it'sgonna bleed over into the home life and
into the way that they're interacting.So I think in an unusual level,
like some kids always just just getfrustrated as they're learning new things, period.
(09:05):
But if it's if it's heightened orit has that agitation or anger piece
to it that I think is alsoa clue that the parents might think maybe
we should we should look at things. Now, you mentioned that you've noticed
it increase in it over the lastfew years, But how have you seen
(09:30):
this increase in families in your amongyour your tutoring business and the schools,
even the schools there locally that youinteract with there in the Atlanta area.
UM, I would say, well, I'm on also on an advisory council
for our Spectrum, which is theautism support group here in Atlanta, And
(09:50):
so I mean we're saying more ofthat. Um, they're just not able
to They may be very intelligent andin terms of of the way they verbally
talk to you, let's say,but maybe not in terms of you know,
putting things down on paper or ona computer. So we're seeing that,
(10:11):
we're just seeing a lot of Um, we just helped a young man
who just constantly needs a lot ofhelp. I'm pretty sure it's an executive
functioning issue, they said to her. And this is a lot of wrong
information is being given out. Atone point, they said to the parent,
I guess oh he was adh Iasked her, is the ADHD and
she said yes. And I willask you know, a lot of teachers
(10:33):
aren't going to point blank ask anyparent that question, right, They're just
going to, you know, kindof beat around the bush. They may
give you a hint as a parent, but they're not They're concerned about legality,
right. So but I will aska parent because I'll ask them to
share a psychological with me or anythingthey have that maybe going on at the
(10:54):
school. So we're kind of likeworking as a village together to solve the
problem or at least reduced as manyobstacles that are in the way. So
I'd say, yeah, I mean, this young man was having issues in
geometry, and so he he's definitelygonna have a tutor. He's not getting
(11:16):
a lot of assistance, which hereally needs. Closer to one on one,
I'd say he's not producing that school, but he does it when he's
one on one with a tutor.But he I think he's a slow starter.
He may not get it done.That all kind of hints to ADHD.
But they did have tell her thathe no longer had ADHD. Well
(11:37):
that's not true because once you haveADHD, you always have ADHD. So
I'm not exactly sure who told herthat. But this is an example of
things. I mean, I couldgo on and on about things I'm hearing
and seeing. Even with gifted kids, it's not just people might think this
is only for special ed children orkids that have just Fibo for whatever.
(11:58):
It's just it's everybody. It couldbe high level children also that are example,
Like I have one that i'm tooduring myself who's a now rising third
grader, and he's got sensory issues, sensory processing issues, so I know
when to kind of back off ifI see him getting a little agitated.
(12:18):
He also takes medication, and Iknow a lot of parents are having a
struggle with whether they should medicate akid or not right, And that's I
can understand that that's very difficult.But I've also seen where a child just
can't get anything done. I don'tcare how intelligent they are, that they're
going to need some assistance somehow,someway. And I'm not a big lover
(12:41):
of any drug and this is notreally a show for drugs, but about
talking about prescription drugs, but somethingto look at. And I know a
lot of parents look at other means, like the holistic route and see if
that can help. But I mean, we're definitely seeing it a lot,
and we're getting more and more involvedin pulling in the classroom teacher because I
(13:01):
feel like they listen more when theyknow we're educators and they know Kanna,
oh, they must know, theyknow the inside, so they operate us
a little differently I think from aparent, Yeah, yeah, very much
so. And I might just addin there about it's I agree with you
(13:24):
on the medication side. My backgroundis where I started, like thirty years
ago, was in the field ofnatural health. So I do have this
tendency to always want to go inthat natural route if at all possible.
But throughout all of my brain trainingand all of the education that I've gained
(13:46):
on the brain and psychology and neurosciences, when there is a misfire, when
there is a chemical imbalance, becausesometimes it's it's chemical anxieties or chemical goal
imbalance. Right when that imbalance isthere or the wiring those connections aren't there
at times that that is the bestroute, you know, And I agree,
(14:11):
I like for people to explore thepotential of doing things naturally or being
more creative in physical movement because thebrain loves physical movement and learning, and
we tend to get away from thatand we look at a textbook. Sometimes
just physical movement will help a lot, but at times it is medica.
It comes down to that when you'vetried the other avenues. So I think
(14:35):
we need to remove some of thatstigma, you know. I think what
helped me a lot at one pointin time in my life dealing with a
close relative who needed to be onanti anxiety medications is the person giving me
counsel was like, if you haddiabetes, you would be on diabetic medicine
right if it was if it wasto the point where you couldn't control it
(14:58):
through diet, you would have totake insulin or you would wind up dying
early or having losing limbs or whatever, And like my doctors always say,
there's just some things you can't beat. That's called genes exactly exactly right,
So keep keep an open mind onthat. You know, definitely there are
tactics that you can do that arealternative, but at the end of the
(15:22):
day, sometimes it does in certaincases come down to to a medication that
will balance out chemistry in the brains. Important to think of. So,
how have your tutors then been ableto help support families with neurodivergent children?
(15:43):
How do they? How does howdoes having a tutor? Because I have
to tell you when I was nowI hope a full disclosure, I homeschooled
my kids for sixteen years, seventeensixteen years, seventeen years, something like
that, and I lose track.They're all in their thirties now for many
years, and I have to admitthat I was almost like, I don't
(16:04):
want to get a tutor for mysons. I'm smart, I can do
all of this. And at onepoint when my sons hit high school algebra
was like I could do it,but I couldn't teach it, and it
was they were so the relief thatthey had not having to have that struggle
with their mother was amazing, Likethey could go in once a week,
(16:27):
twice a week, meet with thetutor at the library and they got it.
So what have you what do yourtutors and what have you seen your
tutors be able to help to supportthese families. Well, first, I
want to say, that's an interestingcomment. You may because a lot of
times I get calls where the parentssays, I know I can do this
(16:48):
math or whatever, but he's notgoing to listen to me, and it's
true, and then they're like,you do it because and they do listen
to a total stranger exactly right,And you don't want to raise the anxiety
level in the household, like kids, this is our house, this is
our home. It will not bea battleground. Right. Why have Yeah?
(17:12):
So anyways, so yeah, firstof all, I have a lot
of like specialty type people. Ihave a reading specialist, I have um,
you know, special ed gifted certificationlike I am. So that helps
as well because now we understand whatprograms are in as well and what's required
(17:33):
because a lot of those are requiredby law and there's things they should follow
along with. So um, Iwould say, yes, there's my tutors
assist quite a bit, and weall because there's twenty of us or up
to twenty of us, so wecollaborate together. Um So if I don't
know an answer or my tutor doesn't, they know, to message me and
talk to me about it, andthen they then I might reach out to
(17:56):
somebody else and I'm always I dothat a lot. Plus we have meetings,
so and then I might even connecta tutor with one of my other
tutors so they can have the discussionabout what else can they try, strategies
or tips, anything like that thatcan help, you know, assist the
child. And you know, we'lljump into five O four meetings RTI EIP
(18:19):
meetings and help out that way aswell, so that we're listening and there's
another pair of ears that understands thelaw and understands what you can get as
a parent because of your child beingneurodivergent. Oh, I love that because
I think there's it becomes so overwhelmingoftentimes to the parents in this type of
(18:40):
a situation, especially in the beginningof finding out what this whole neurodivergent world
is about. And if you're ifthe parent becomes too anxious, right,
that just creates more anxiety for thechild. Right, and then as the
brain lady, you know, youget into all those negative emotional spaces and
that's so bad across the board.Now you can't Now the child can't pay
(19:03):
attention, even worse than their baselinebecause of all of the anxiety and attention.
So I love the fact that youare able to come in and advocate
for the families and kind of bethat outside voice that has more knowledge on
the legalities and what's available and whatshouldn't shouldn't be said or shouldn't shouldn't be
(19:26):
done. So that's yeah, becauseif you think about if you go get
a psychological so the psychologist has alreadyseen your child and you you've done interviews
or whatever, and then they writeit up. Then they just hand it
to you, right, and thenyou take it back to the school.
So now what I mean they're notin a meeting with you. You really
do need an advocate. And Ialso, if if it's too into i
(19:51):
EPs, I have somebody else Iresource that out too, that also was
an ist and I you know,a special head teacher, so she has
her own company so we work togethera lot. So I have a lot
of resources as well because I havetwenty five years experience as an educator,
so I understand a lot what's goingon, and all my teachers keep me
in tune with what's going on.Yeah, and I hear from a lot
(20:15):
of parents too. So for thelisteners or the watchers, if you could
explain what or just real quick definethe IEP and what those acronyms are,
those letters are that you're using,because we might have listeners going, oh,
maybe my child's neurodivergent, but whatwhat did she say? Yeah?
(20:36):
So usually and I have blogs onthis, so they can go to my
website and see blogs related to rTI, SST Those are all like supports
that they first begin with, andsome states may come slightly different. So
you may be hearing this this interviewin another state and I'm in Georgia.
But so, but they're all thesame thing. They have to go through
(20:59):
some type of support where teachers areusually gathering data at first to see what
is going on if there really isa problem, and then so that here
in Georgia is called SST RTI that'sa response to intervention, and then there's
three tiers to response to intervention andall those tiers they're doing three different things.
And then if you hit the verytop tier, you may be then
(21:21):
eligible for special AD which is whereyou get an individualized educational plan and that's
very strictly followed by law. Sothe five O four plan is and I
have a video on the differences betweenfive O four and IPS and you can
get that through my YouTube channel.But the website, yes is www dot
(21:45):
Dynamos Learning Academy dot com and sowe have you know, things in there
also a lot of blogs on thewhole tiered system five O four or i
EPs, but they are they willget you i EPs will get you modifications
(22:07):
and you may have an assistant andthey get might get pulled out, depends
on how the county in the schoolsystem approaches that IEP in their system and
in their state UM, and they'llget more individualized attention if it's severe enough.
UM five O four plans are underthe Americans with Disabilities Act. It's
called the Section five four plan whereyou can get accommodations and a lot of
(22:29):
this is usually a five O fourplan, but you have to have a
medical diagnosis from a doctor first,right, like a pediatrician or a psychologist
or whatever. So those um usuallyintel extended time, small group testing.
Um, you know, sit inthe front of the room. There's other
There's a lot of things and youcan even google that, but definitely UM,
(22:53):
I'd say, yes, Uh,there's there's a lot that parents need
to know about. And the higherup in that level that you go the
five O four the i EP ismore legalities involved in it, and they
and then you as a parent,should know what your rights are. They
give it to you. But it'sbetter that you get informed ahead of time
because you got to know that onceyou start that process or they start it,
(23:18):
they need to get it done inninety days. So there's there's a
lot of time limits on the IEPas well for them to get that done.
And only the five O four plantoo. Yeah, So those are
things that you as the as theadvocates when you tutor, these are things
that you can help the parents understand. All that small print so to speak.
(23:41):
Yes, and again it's pretty detailed, but you can google it.
But the five O four plans andit really just depends on what your diagnosis
is on and the need has tobe shown what the accommodations are going to
be, and then those accommodations goon into taking sat ACT and you gotta
know you have to apply for thoseto the college board ahead of time to
(24:03):
get those accommodations. So there's alot to kind of be aware of for
parents. Yeah, yeah, alot out there. It gets very complicated
when it gets into the for lackof the red tape. Yes, yes,
yeah, all right, Well,what are some of the tips that
(24:26):
you can share with parents who aredealing with either a new diagnosis of being
their child being neurodivergent, or they'veknown it for a while and they're kind
of at that point where they're like, I just don't know what to do.
What are some of the tips ofthings that they can do to support
that child and reduce that anxiety athome and keep home a safe place.
(24:52):
Yeah. I would follow people ona podcast where like this, like we're
talking. I also have my ownpodcast, Smart Parents, Successful Students Podcasts.
It's on Spotify and some other placesas well, and I have different
guests. They're not all about neurodivergentstuff. But again I would look that
(25:12):
up and start just you know,I think your best bet for parents is
to arm themselves with a lot ofknowledge ahead of time and start reading from
even when your children are five.You know, I just refer to a
child that was four to my outsideresource that I was talking about a few
(25:32):
minutes ago for because they weren't beingtreated correctly through the i EP. So
that's that's something you really need toarm yourself with earlier on and not wait
till things show up and then itkind of continues to multiply and get much
more difficult for parents, and thennow you're like, where do I turn.
(25:55):
A lot of outside resources out there. Psychology today is terrific, you
know, Heather right consulting is whoI'm kind of talking about, is who
is my kind of go to person, So she rights wr ight, But
there's a lot of different psychologists.Your pediatrician should be your number one person
(26:17):
to talk to immediately, I wouldsay, And then definitely the teachers to
see what is it they're seeing.And then a lot of times they're giving
like a form to complete with abunch of questions and they fill that out
and then you can take that too, and then the pediatrician will ask for
that. So goes straight to thepediatrician usually and sealed envelopes, and then
they use that plus talking to youand other people, and then they kind
(26:42):
of gather, you know, throughan evaluation on whether your child might be
ADHD or something else. Yeah,and then no way for you as well,
right right, And I would echothe earlier the better. There's such
a beautiful brain. It's just sobeautiful, and there's so many stages of
(27:02):
development where the brain is prime fornew neural connections, where the brain is
just it's just ready to grow andit is hungry for growth. And it's
no different in a neurodivergent child.That growth period is still there, that
desire is still there. They're justnot necessarily able to learn in what we
(27:25):
would call that traditional setting, buttheir brain is still beautiful and in that
spot where it needs that that food, that that knowledge and that extra stuff.
So the more that you can dothat at the earlier stage, the
better the brains can develop, andthe better the self confidence of the child
(27:45):
too. Then you get into thatpsychology piece right where the getting that site
that child to feel fine with thislabel that's been slapped on it, right
exactly, Yeah, and now andWe've talked about a lot of the resources
and we're we're going to wrap upthis conversation now. It's such a such
(28:07):
a powerful conversation. Again, thankyou so much for having this this conversation
with me today, Helen. Ithink that it's it's very valuable for a
lot a lot of different people andjust opening up the conversation and demystifying the
conversation and desensitizing, right, sothat so that it's not it's not a
(28:32):
whisper. Oh my right, andhopefully I think that used to be how
it was for sure, Yeah,because my niece is a neurodivergent person.
And back then in the day,you're right, I think people thought,
oh, there's something wrong with thesepeople if they're like this or whatever.
But um, I can assure youthere's a lot of this going on and
(28:56):
you are not the only person outthere parents that are experiencing it. Yeah.
I wanted to let everybody know,keep looking, keep talking to people
like myself and Julie and other people. If we don't have the answer,
we will help you get the rightperson and the answer. And that's not
us alone. That's all right,perfect, and that's a perfect segue because
(29:21):
you have an advocacy brochure that canbe downloaded. So we're going to pop
up that link on the screen.And then for those who are listening to
this in your mobile office or asa podcast, not at watching the video
here, you can go to thepodcast description, the show description or on
(29:44):
the YouTube description and that all ofthese, all of the ways to get
in touch with Helen will be onthat as well as how you can pick
up that brochure. And as shementioned, she has a podcast, so
follow Helen on the podcast. HerYouTube channel again, Smart Parents Successful Students
is her podcast, and the YouTubechannel is a lot of numbers. We
(30:07):
got to get Helen to a lotof numbers and letters. We got to
get Helen to put that AT signon there so it'll be easier, so
it'll be at. We'll work withthat. You can follow her Dynamics Learning
Academy on LinkedIn is also another wayto stay connected. It's the same on
Facebook and Instagram, so lots ofdifferent ways to connect with Helen. And
(30:32):
if you have questions, you cansend her an email and be able to
stay in touch with her that wayor give her a call. So once
again, Helen Thank you so verymuch for being a guest on the Brain
Lady Speaks podcast today and sharing thisdiscussing this very timely topic with us.
Thank you for having me again.I appreciate it, and yes, this
(30:53):
is a very important topic. Again, want to encourage parents to reach out
to people that have some information aboutit and never and don't give up.
There's a lot of support and resourcesout there and within the school system,
and you may get blocked, butyou need to keep pushing and nicely and
get what you need for your child. Beautiful. I love it. I
(31:15):
love it. I echo that allright, And for everyone listening, thank
you so much. We are honoredand that you took the time to spend
with us this morning or this afternoon, whenever you are watching this wherever you
are at in the world, becausewe have many listeners internationally, so we
appreciate you and we value you.Because this is such a timely topic,
(31:37):
we would love a little bit ofsocial media love. Give us some thumbs
up, give us a positive commentor review on any of the channels that
you are watching this on and shareus share the link for this particular show
if it's something that you felt wasvery valuable, share it out there on
the social media. You can followme on social media as brain Lady Julie
(32:00):
pretty much everywhere, LinkedIn Instagram.I even started a thread channel, so
all over the place you can findme at either brain Lady Julie or brain
Lady Speaker. Is how you're gonnabe able to locate me. I think
I'm just at brain Lady on Twitter. So we'd love to have you stay
connected. If you like this topicand you would love for me to do
(32:23):
something more along this line, oryou have someone else that you would like
to interview, or you yourself havea topic that you would like to have
interview be interviewed on, shoot usan email at info at brain lady Speaker.
It's brain ladyspeaker dot com and we'llsee what. We'll have a chat
and we'll see if it's a goodfit of a of a topic or a
(32:45):
guest. Maybe you've read a bookI based on this subject because I'm working
more and more in corporates. WhenI'm working with corporates, I'm working with
that neurodivergent category. So I'm readinga lot of books and white papers and
study that have been done. Soif you find something interesting. I'm always
open to growing a little brain tip. Reading is one of the best ways
(33:07):
to keep your brain young, Soget out there and do it. Read
more, expand your knowledge more.That's a wonderful way to do that.
We thank you everyone for following us. We do have a project, a
pet project of ours with our womenentrepreneurs called a collaborative book called Women Excelling
(33:27):
Everywhere. If that's something that youwould be interested in being a part of
or in finding new information about,we are looking for co authors to join
me in this project. If youwant more information, you can scan the
QR code here on the screen,or you can shoot us an email and
we will connect you as that.If you're a little curious about what your
brain personality connection is in the neuroscienceof what makes you tick, then you
(33:50):
might want to go to Brain PersonalityAssessment dot com or scan the QR code
and take the assessment. You mightbe really surprised in the eye opening information
that you find there. It isnot just a personality assessment. We also
rate your emotional tone, which getsinto your health and your physical wellbeing and
your mindset. So there's a lotof information included in there, so I
(34:12):
encourage you to take that all right. For that, we will wrap up
the show once again. Thank you, Helen and everyone who is listening and
watching. And I want everyone totake a nice deep breath, go out
there and simply enjoy every moment.
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