January 31, 2024 • 23 mins
According to WHO (World Health Organization) ADHD affects around 5% of children and 2.5% of adults the world over, as of October 2023. But is it ever misdiagnosed? Is medication the only way to handle symptoms? We had such a fascinating conversation with Dr. Connie Reynolds, the author of Solving the ADHD Riddle..., that we had to put it into two parts.
Whether you have a child with learning disabilities or are an adult who struggles, you will benefit from the amazing information in today’s show.
Connect with Dr. Connie:
Connect with Brain Lady Julie
Do you have a great question or topic you'd like Brain Lady Julie to cover? Think you'd be a great guest? Message our producer Kelli@BrainLadySpeaker.com and let us know.
PLEASE NOTE: The information contained in this podcast is not at any time and for any reason meant to replace the guidance and/or treatment of any health professional. Whether it be a medical doctor, psychologist, psychotherapist, or anyone in the medical field. If you are under the care of such a health professional, remember this is an “added value” and not designed to replace any care you are currently under.
Whether you have a child with learning disabilities or are an adult who struggles, you will benefit from the amazing information in today’s show.
Connect with Dr. Connie:
Connect with Brain Lady Julie
Do you have a great question or topic you'd like Brain Lady Julie to cover? Think you'd be a great guest? Message our producer Kelli@BrainLadySpeaker.com and let us know.
PLEASE NOTE: The information contained in this podcast is not at any time and for any reason meant to replace the guidance and/or treatment of any health professional. Whether it be a medical doctor, psychologist, psychotherapist, or anyone in the medical field. If you are under the care of such a health professional, remember this is an “added value” and not designed to replace any care you are currently under.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:08):
I am Julie Anderson, aka brainLady Julie, and I am very excited
for my guest today because we're talkingabout a subject. I've had guests before
on this on the show with thissubject, but we're doing it again and
we'll continue to do it again becauseI think for a brain health point of
view, or from a brain healthpoint of view, I think it's a
(00:30):
very valid one to discuss and getdifferent opinions and different approaches because it's very
very usable and good for brain health, and that is a topic of neuro
feedback. But with that, weare going to talk today with doctor Connie
McReynolds. Connie, welcome to theBrain Lady Speak Show. Thank you so
(00:51):
much for having me today, Julie. It's a pleasure to be here with
you. Absolutely. Now let mejust do a real quick I'm gonna read
your professional bio so the audience knowskind of a little bit about you,
and then we'll get into the realConnie. That's great. So Connie has
(01:11):
a book that she has written calledSolving the add Riddle, The Real Cause
and Lasting Solutions to your Child's Struggleto Learn, and it reveals current diagnoses
that aren't working and what you asa parent need to do to know to
guide your child back to a lifethat's fully functional, happy and successful.
And she is a licensed psychologist andcertified rehabilitation counselor with more than thirty years
(01:38):
experience in the field of rehabilitation counselingand psychology. She has gained. She
has worked with the outpatient Substance AbuseTreatment program in mid Middletown via Hospital Physical
Medicine and Rehabilitation, neuro Psychological Clinicnear Meritor Hospital, and Mena Mendota Mental
(02:02):
Health Institute. But what I'm reallyexcited about is the work that she's doing
with her clinics, because she isthe founder of Neural Feedback Clinics in Southern
California, and she's working with childrenand adults. So I want to emphasize
that this show, this interview isnot just for a parent if you have
(02:22):
kids, because there are so manyadults, especially now, I think we're
breeding an age or generation of peoplewith add so much technology is just feeding
into that. So I think thisis a valuable topic. So she works
with children and adults to reduce andeliminate conditions of ADHD, anxiety, anger,
depression, chronic pain, learning problems, and trauma. And she does
(02:46):
this through these neural feedback clinics andshe works with children from five to adults
age ninety, so she has quitethe bio and experience in field. So
I am really excited to have thisconversation with you, Connie. Thank you
once again for being on our show. Thank you for having me absolutely so.
(03:08):
Tell me you've been doing this fora while, and you were in
psychology and then the neuro feedback whatdrew you Because the field of psychology is
really big, and the field ofneurology and neuropsychology is really big, Like
there's so many different avenues and waysthat you can go. What got you
(03:28):
interested in the neuro feedback aspect andhad you passionate become passionate about focusing in
that field? Well, thank youfor that question because it is kind of
fun to talk about how it allcame about. Which, you know,
if someone were to project a careerpath for someone, it's really hard to
do. This just has its owntwists and turns, and you think I'm
(03:52):
going to go down this pathway andthen suddenly you're somewhere else, and that's
really kind of where I was.My career fully took off with my master's
degree in rehabilitation counseling, and sothat foundation I think was just amazing.
Not knowing it at the time,of course, you know, you just
kind of feel like you go towardswhat you're drawn to. But this really
(04:15):
gave a foundation about looking at thingskind of outside the box. So it's
like, Okay, you may havesomeone walk in with a particular diagnostic label
that doesn't tell you anything about theperson themselves. So that was the foundation.
So I worked for seven years ina state agency working with people with
all types of diagnostic labels, andthen went on to get my doctorate at
(04:39):
UW Madison, where I worked atthe VA for a while, I worked
at the Marit Clinic Mendota, MilaHealth Institute during that time frame. Learned
so much through that in my degreethrough rehabilitation psychology, and then became a
professor. So fast forward, aboutten years into that career, I was
recruited out to southern California. Partof that recruitment process included my willingness to
(05:02):
take on a project that others wouldn'tyou know. Twenty twenty hindsight now has
gone. I see now why whyexactly? A new kid on the block.
She doesn't know what's going on.So let's say regard to this thing.
Yeah, and off we go.So the beautiful thing about that when
(05:25):
I came out here fifteen years agoor so, is that within that setting
at that time, there was alot of creativity. And one of the
things was they had this huge space. They really needed to create something at
it, and they said, takethis run with it. So I created
an institute. Part of that becamethe Neurofeedback Clinic, which a colleague had
(05:45):
shared with me what he was doingin another county here in southern California,
helping children who were struggling to learnhow to read and that this system was
making a difference in their lives.This was fifteen years ago. Yeah,
So I had great administrative support atthat time. So we set up a
pilot project, and because of myconnection to the veterans from my DOT program,
(06:09):
I set up a dual track.It's like, let's work with children
with ADHD and let's work with veteranswith PTSD, and let's see what happens.
And so we just opened it up. It was a pilot project and
what started happening is the phone startedringing. Yes, So we have community
parents and veterans and folks coming inand suddenly we were getting results with this.
(06:30):
People's lives were improving, and thephone started ringing. Fast forward fourteen
years later, I have my owncompany. I've retired from the university,
I have three clinics in southern California, and I've written the book because I
uncovered this thing that really has madea difference in understanding ADHD. It's not
what we think it is. Yeah, you know that's I like that.
(06:55):
One of the things you mentioned touse the word label, and I have
to say, in my in mytime in understanding the brain and the mind
and the way they work together,when you throw a label on someone,
it tends to stunt there. It'salmost like the fleas in the jar,
right, you know that experiment thatwas done so many years ago about the
fleas and the jar. You knowthey can jump so high, but you
(07:17):
put the lid on the jar andthen they stop jumping that high, even
once the lid is is removed,because it can tend to do that.
Now do you find that when youhave clients? I know this isn't necessarily
prepared question for you. I'm likeball with it. I love it.
Do you find that that that thatwith that that label or that diagnosis,
(07:41):
that there comes a an internal stigmathat people hold to themselves, that they
look at that as something that isis like I can't do anything about it,
and or they get depressed about it, or they get it's it slows
their capacity to grow and to embracewhat they can be because they have this
(08:05):
label. Have you noticed that atall? Oh? You know, it
comes in multiple ways. So yes, I have noticed that. And I
will say, just to be fairto all the folks I've worked with,
sometimes figuring out what is going onthough, can be a relief for some
people. It's not that the labelnecessarily does it, but when they have
(08:26):
a better understanding of what's really goingon, in other words, we find
the root cause of what's happening,that's what makes the difference. It's not
so much the label, because someof these labels can be very in a
lack of a better word, debilitating, like what you're describing. So people
get stuck with that. They sometimesfeel hopeless and helpless, and if it's
(08:48):
a disempowering experience. I don't countthat in the positive field. You know,
if we can find some way todescribe something though, that someone then
feels empowered because they better understand whatthey've been struggling with. That if it's
empowering to them, it gives themknowledge, it helps them develop a pathway
(09:09):
toward a different life than that.I'm all in for, and that's really
what my work focus is on.Let's figure this out, because if we
can figure out where the weaknesses are, then there's something we can do about
that. And right here it is, Yeah, take a proactive approach,
and I can see how that wouldbe very It's almost like the person who's
(09:30):
been suffering from headaches for years andyears and years and doesn't know why and
all of a sudden finds out thewhy and what they need to change in
their life to make them go away. It's like, now you know what
you can do have a positive pathforward. So I really really like that.
So I mentioned kind of my feelingswhen you know, when I first
(09:50):
introduced this topic, I feel likewe are just we are. It's almost
an epidemic ADHD. This just withinthe kids, but even within the adults.
You know, I've seen the differencein people that I'm close to.
I've seen the difference in me andfocus and that function that it's almost I
(10:11):
blame it on these Actually there's afactor there. We know this to be
true. So that would lead meto the question, like what is what
is what you would flinically say,is ADHD And why is it spreading so
much? Why are we hearing somuch about it? Why is it just
(10:33):
that it was kept under wraps forso long? Or is it that it
is actually growing and it's a resultof certain things? So what is it
exactly? How would you describe it? And then why is it spreading so
rapidly? Well, the what andhow I describe it is probably different,
which is why I really wrote thebook, which is to change the narrative.
(10:56):
I really want this narrative to beexpanded beyond where we have been with
these traditional interpretations and views and traditionalinterventions, because I don't think it's worked.
If it had been doing great,we wouldn't be where we are today.
So something isn't working. Some ofthose interventions, they're not working.
And as most of us in theprofessional field know, when they changed up
(11:18):
the DSM five, almost anyone canqualify now for ADHD. When you readpost
descriptors, it's how many billion peopleare there on the planet, And I
think how many billion could qualify underthat gnostic criteria. So it's kind of
a double edged sword here because we'vegot this criteria that almost anyone can qualify
(11:39):
under now, and we do seemto have a preponderance of an explosion,
almost of people who can't concentrate,people who can't focus. And so just
a little backstory about me. Mymother taught second grade for thirty two years
in the same classroom, and soI joke about having grown up in second
(12:00):
because I was part of it forall those years when I went through K
through twelfth grade and then well beyondthat. And I can remember back because
I was always in her classroom.Was there in the morning, there in
the evening, you know, you'rejust were That's how it was back then.
And maybe there was one child thatshe would discuss, a little Jimmy,
he's having a hard time. Hecan't sit in his seat. I
(12:22):
look up, he's sitting on topof his desk, He's crawled underneath.
It's you know, he's everywhere.And then the little boy who couldn't learn
how to read, so she mighthave had one. And you walk into
today's classrooms of second graders, andI feel for these teachers. These teachers
are struggling because part of how theydefine success in schools has really changed a
(12:50):
lot. And so that's a lotof pressure and the resources, as we
know, aren't quite where they needto be in a lot of cases.
So do we have these external factorscreating more of attention problems? I think
we could check that box pretty easily. Yes. Do we have a diagnostic
(13:11):
criteria that almost anyone in the worldwe swept into. I think we have
to check that box as well.So you know, it's just where we
are today, it's just where weare. I define this a little differently
though, because what my research hasshown over the years with my clinics of
fifteen years is that when I startedrunning this assessment that came with our neuro
(13:33):
feedback system, I started recognizing andit took me several years to really it's
like, is this really what I'mseeing? We had many, many,
many cases, hundreds and hundreds ofcases that came through that I've started.
After a while, it's like,you gotta trust this this is just consistent
all the way through. I didmy research on it before I published my
(13:54):
first international journal in a scientific journal. I did two years of research because
I kept thinking, this has tobe out here, this has to be
discussed somewhere, these auditory and visualprocessing problems the way I was seeing it
in my clinics, and I couldn'tfind it. I looked for a long
time, and I continued looking beforeI published the book, because of course,
(14:16):
if there's something out there, Ireally wanted to include it. But
I just didn't find anything that fitthe parameters of what I see with these
auditory and visual processing problems. Whenyou peel back any of those diagnostic labels
and we get down underneath all ofthat, And if we're finding these auditory
and visual processing problems across these thirtyseven criteria and we then tackle that with
(14:39):
brain training programs of neurofeedback and thebehaviors go away and the school success improves
and adults start doing better, thenI think we're onto something. And that's
kind of where I stand on thebook at this point. So do you
think then that ADHD is or thatauditory and visual process seeing disorders are or
(15:03):
challenges are misdiagnosed sometimes as ADHD.I think they're completely missed. That's what
I think, because I don't seemuch of anything that speaks about visual processing
in the way that I do,and I don't see a whole lot that
speaks about auditory processing. There arephysical auditory challenges like the central auditory processing
(15:26):
disorder, which is kind of abrain hearing process. So that's out there.
But when I started doing this workon the research, there really wasn't
anything that was describing what I wasseeing in my clinics, and so what
I came to understand is that kindof regardless again, if the person was
coming in with learning disabilities, theywere coming in with maybe cognitive impairments,
(15:48):
they were coming in in some casesdiagnosed with autism. Sometimes they were diagnosed
with Tourette syndrome. And I'm notsaying we're curing all of that, but
what I am saying is the behaviorsthat we're associated with that have gone away
for these children that I work with, and if they're going away, then
maybe we have something here that's makinga difference in people's lives kind of regardless
(16:11):
of why they walk in the door, right do you think it's overdiagnosed?
Do you think ADHD is overdiagnosed?Well, I think the attention problems are
real, so I think children reallyare struggling in the classrooms. So whether
it's ADHD or whether it's this otherthing, I really don't know because I
(16:32):
haven't worked, you know, withso many people outside of my clinics.
I could just speak to those who'vecome through my clinics, and what I
have really uncovered over these years isthat they can come in diagnosed with ADHD,
but I can have ten children walkin the door in the same day
diagnosed with ADHD, and they're allgoing to present differently. So that's kind
(16:53):
of the challenge for teachers. It'sthe challenge for parents is that if we're
calling it all the same thing,but everyone looks different, what do you
do for each individual person to helpthem? And that's where I think we've
lost some of the effectiveness of interventionsis that when we call we call everything
(17:14):
all the same thing, then we'reassuming that the intervention needs to be the
same thing and it doesn't needs tobe different. So yeah, so based
on that, ADHD medications are writtenquite a bit, like there's a lot
of it out there. There's ayou know the number of it's it's a
(17:37):
big industry and you get on thatsoebox, right, Yeah, but so
do does it always work? Oris it kind of like the aspirin for
the headache that's masking the symptom,or that's masking the source, that's treating
the symptom, not the source.So you know, how does how do
(17:59):
you feel about medication? Not justfor children, because we know that there
can be as much as it maybe needed in certain situations, there can
be detrimental long term effects on thatdeveloping brain because that developing brain is so
subject to that outside influence and canactually be damaged in some ways well damage
(18:26):
might be a strong word, butinfluenced in a way that may not be
positive. Like do all these childrenwith ADHD need medication? Does it work?
Is? What are the negative sidesto that? I think that's a
really important question in today's world,and it's the one I get a lot
from parents, because I really haveparents in two categories. The one category,
(18:49):
as we've been on everything, We'vetried everything, everything hasn't worked,
We have side effects, my childrefuses to take it. I mean the
list just kind of goes pretty predictableif you're in that camp and things haven't
worked. The other camp as parentsare saying, we're not interested, we
want to find something else because we'renot sure how much we really trust this,
(19:11):
and we've known people who have beendown that road, and we're wanting
something different for our child. Soit's kind of all of that that ends
up hitting my office. Now.Obviously, the cases that don't hit my
office are the ones perhaps the medicationsworking for so I can't speak to that,
okay, But what I can speakto is that for the folks that
have come into my clinics, iteither hasn't worked, they don't want to
(19:33):
stay on it, or they don'twant to get on it, and so
we're looking for the alternatives. Andin my book, I really talk I
did some dive in to the medicationside effects because I really did want to
help parents understand there are some prosand cons to that there are cases where
this works. Most of the complaintshave been that when the medications wear off,
the behaviors come back. So whatwe've done is but a band aid
(19:56):
on something, it seems like,because it doesn't really get rid of it.
It just numbs it down. Somepeople say, my son or child
is turned into a zombie. Ican't stand it. You know, there's
all of these things have been saidto me. So I think the key
to really what we're looking at istrying to find the solutions that last.
(20:19):
And if the medication when it wearsoff, the behaviors are coming back,
then that to me doesn't feel likeit's actually getting to the bottom of the
puzzle here or the riddle. It'slike we're just kind of at the surface
on this. We're treating these symptoms. So that's really where I stand.
It's like, if it's working forpeople, obviously I don't see them.
(20:40):
They don't not coming to my clinics. It's could be a large population out
there for whom this is doing great. The ones who come to me it
hasn't worked, And that's who Ifocus on, is who was showing up
and why were they showing up?Right? Right? Do you find that
with adults as well? Is itkind of the same thing like you do?
You have adults come in that sayI'm tired of being on the medication.
(21:03):
I don't like the way it makesme feel, and I'm looking for
something different, or that the medicationthey don't feel even works for them.
Yes to all of that. Soif they're showing up in my clinic is
because something isn't working in their lifefor them. Sometimes they do talk about
the side effects. Sometimes they talkabout, you know, it's just ineffective
(21:26):
for them. So there's a wholehost of maybe symptoms or side effects that
they're not happy with, and theyreally want an underlying causual factor here.
They want the root cause. Andthat's really when we run this assessment.
It takes twenty minutes, a computerbased assessment. We are able to get
a fifteen page report out of this. And when we go through this,
(21:47):
when I literally go through this withparents and adults, it changes everything.
It changes the dynamic because suddenly wehave the language that we can now all
agree on. It's like, theseare the behavior, this is what's happening,
this is the impact. And theneverything's kind of lined up and suddenly
parents realize, oh my gosh,I don't have a bad kid. It's
(22:08):
like, no, you do.You do not have a quote bad kid.
You do not have a child whois just willfully misbehaving and not following
instructions. All the time. Thatisn't what's going on here. He can't
remember, she can't focus on this, and this isn't hearing and it isn't
vision. It's literally processing. Andwhen we find it, there's something we
(22:32):
can do to help train the brainwith that and strengthen that and prove focus
and concentration. I love it.I love it. So this goes because
it's it goes deeper than just behavioralmodifications, right, because sometimes there's there's
the you know, the positive feedbackloop that you want to that you want
to create with kids, and youknow the reward system and you know all
(22:55):
of that thing that you can getinto. However, if there is a
and this is something that I've alwayssaid, when you're dealing with depressions,
when you're dealing with PTSD or complexPTSD, if you're dealing with a chemical
imbalance in the brain and or amisfiring of the brain for some reason,
(23:18):
right, you have to be ableto you have to understand that that's what
it. It's going to take somethingmore than just saying eat your p's and
when you're done with your ps you'regoing to get get your ice cream.
Right, It's right, right,it goes into balancing out the brain.
(23:40):
Well, that's just too much greatinformation for one episode, so come back
and join this next week as wefinish up our conversation with doctor Connie McReynolds
here on Brain that he speaks
I am Julie Anderson, aka brainLady Julie, and I am very excited
for my guest today because we're talkingabout a subject. I've had guests before
on this on the show with thissubject, but we're doing it again and
we'll continue to do it again becauseI think for a brain health point of
view, or from a brain healthpoint of view, I think it's a
(00:30):
very valid one to discuss and getdifferent opinions and different approaches because it's very
very usable and good for brain health, and that is a topic of neuro
feedback. But with that, weare going to talk today with doctor Connie
McReynolds. Connie, welcome to theBrain Lady Speak Show. Thank you so
(00:51):
much for having me today, Julie. It's a pleasure to be here with
you. Absolutely. Now let mejust do a real quick I'm gonna read
your professional bio so the audience knowskind of a little bit about you,
and then we'll get into the realConnie. That's great. So Connie has
(01:11):
a book that she has written calledSolving the add Riddle, The Real Cause
and Lasting Solutions to your Child's Struggleto Learn, and it reveals current diagnoses
that aren't working and what you asa parent need to do to know to
guide your child back to a lifethat's fully functional, happy and successful.
And she is a licensed psychologist andcertified rehabilitation counselor with more than thirty years
(01:38):
experience in the field of rehabilitation counselingand psychology. She has gained. She
has worked with the outpatient Substance AbuseTreatment program in mid Middletown via Hospital Physical
Medicine and Rehabilitation, neuro Psychological Clinicnear Meritor Hospital, and Mena Mendota Mental
(02:02):
Health Institute. But what I'm reallyexcited about is the work that she's doing
with her clinics, because she isthe founder of Neural Feedback Clinics in Southern
California, and she's working with childrenand adults. So I want to emphasize
that this show, this interview isnot just for a parent if you have
(02:22):
kids, because there are so manyadults, especially now, I think we're
breeding an age or generation of peoplewith add so much technology is just feeding
into that. So I think thisis a valuable topic. So she works
with children and adults to reduce andeliminate conditions of ADHD, anxiety, anger,
depression, chronic pain, learning problems, and trauma. And she does
(02:46):
this through these neural feedback clinics andshe works with children from five to adults
age ninety, so she has quitethe bio and experience in field. So
I am really excited to have thisconversation with you, Connie. Thank you
once again for being on our show. Thank you for having me absolutely so.
(03:08):
Tell me you've been doing this fora while, and you were in
psychology and then the neuro feedback whatdrew you Because the field of psychology is
really big, and the field ofneurology and neuropsychology is really big, Like
there's so many different avenues and waysthat you can go. What got you
(03:28):
interested in the neuro feedback aspect andhad you passionate become passionate about focusing in
that field? Well, thank youfor that question because it is kind of
fun to talk about how it allcame about. Which, you know,
if someone were to project a careerpath for someone, it's really hard to
do. This just has its owntwists and turns, and you think I'm
(03:52):
going to go down this pathway andthen suddenly you're somewhere else, and that's
really kind of where I was.My career fully took off with my master's
degree in rehabilitation counseling, and sothat foundation I think was just amazing.
Not knowing it at the time,of course, you know, you just
kind of feel like you go towardswhat you're drawn to. But this really
(04:15):
gave a foundation about looking at thingskind of outside the box. So it's
like, Okay, you may havesomeone walk in with a particular diagnostic label
that doesn't tell you anything about theperson themselves. So that was the foundation.
So I worked for seven years ina state agency working with people with
all types of diagnostic labels, andthen went on to get my doctorate at
(04:39):
UW Madison, where I worked atthe VA for a while, I worked
at the Marit Clinic Mendota, MilaHealth Institute during that time frame. Learned
so much through that in my degreethrough rehabilitation psychology, and then became a
professor. So fast forward, aboutten years into that career, I was
recruited out to southern California. Partof that recruitment process included my willingness to
(05:02):
take on a project that others wouldn'tyou know. Twenty twenty hindsight now has
gone. I see now why whyexactly? A new kid on the block.
She doesn't know what's going on.So let's say regard to this thing.
Yeah, and off we go.So the beautiful thing about that when
(05:25):
I came out here fifteen years agoor so, is that within that setting
at that time, there was alot of creativity. And one of the
things was they had this huge space. They really needed to create something at
it, and they said, takethis run with it. So I created
an institute. Part of that becamethe Neurofeedback Clinic, which a colleague had
(05:45):
shared with me what he was doingin another county here in southern California,
helping children who were struggling to learnhow to read and that this system was
making a difference in their lives.This was fifteen years ago. Yeah,
So I had great administrative support atthat time. So we set up a
pilot project, and because of myconnection to the veterans from my DOT program,
(06:09):
I set up a dual track.It's like, let's work with children
with ADHD and let's work with veteranswith PTSD, and let's see what happens.
And so we just opened it up. It was a pilot project and
what started happening is the phone startedringing. Yes, So we have community
parents and veterans and folks coming inand suddenly we were getting results with this.
(06:30):
People's lives were improving, and thephone started ringing. Fast forward fourteen
years later, I have my owncompany. I've retired from the university,
I have three clinics in southern California, and I've written the book because I
uncovered this thing that really has madea difference in understanding ADHD. It's not
what we think it is. Yeah, you know that's I like that.
(06:55):
One of the things you mentioned touse the word label, and I have
to say, in my in mytime in understanding the brain and the mind
and the way they work together,when you throw a label on someone,
it tends to stunt there. It'salmost like the fleas in the jar,
right, you know that experiment thatwas done so many years ago about the
fleas and the jar. You knowthey can jump so high, but you
(07:17):
put the lid on the jar andthen they stop jumping that high, even
once the lid is is removed,because it can tend to do that.
Now do you find that when youhave clients? I know this isn't necessarily
prepared question for you. I'm likeball with it. I love it.
Do you find that that that thatwith that that label or that diagnosis,
(07:41):
that there comes a an internal stigmathat people hold to themselves, that they
look at that as something that isis like I can't do anything about it,
and or they get depressed about it, or they get it's it slows
their capacity to grow and to embracewhat they can be because they have this
(08:05):
label. Have you noticed that atall? Oh? You know, it
comes in multiple ways. So yes, I have noticed that. And I
will say, just to be fairto all the folks I've worked with,
sometimes figuring out what is going onthough, can be a relief for some
people. It's not that the labelnecessarily does it, but when they have
(08:26):
a better understanding of what's really goingon, in other words, we find
the root cause of what's happening,that's what makes the difference. It's not
so much the label, because someof these labels can be very in a
lack of a better word, debilitating, like what you're describing. So people
get stuck with that. They sometimesfeel hopeless and helpless, and if it's
(08:48):
a disempowering experience. I don't countthat in the positive field. You know,
if we can find some way todescribe something though, that someone then
feels empowered because they better understand whatthey've been struggling with. That if it's
empowering to them, it gives themknowledge, it helps them develop a pathway
(09:09):
toward a different life than that.I'm all in for, and that's really
what my work focus is on.Let's figure this out, because if we
can figure out where the weaknesses are, then there's something we can do about
that. And right here it is, Yeah, take a proactive approach,
and I can see how that wouldbe very It's almost like the person who's
(09:30):
been suffering from headaches for years andyears and years and doesn't know why and
all of a sudden finds out thewhy and what they need to change in
their life to make them go away. It's like, now you know what
you can do have a positive pathforward. So I really really like that.
So I mentioned kind of my feelingswhen you know, when I first
(09:50):
introduced this topic, I feel likewe are just we are. It's almost
an epidemic ADHD. This just withinthe kids, but even within the adults.
You know, I've seen the differencein people that I'm close to.
I've seen the difference in me andfocus and that function that it's almost I
(10:11):
blame it on these Actually there's afactor there. We know this to be
true. So that would lead meto the question, like what is what
is what you would flinically say,is ADHD And why is it spreading so
much? Why are we hearing somuch about it? Why is it just
(10:33):
that it was kept under wraps forso long? Or is it that it
is actually growing and it's a resultof certain things? So what is it
exactly? How would you describe it? And then why is it spreading so
rapidly? Well, the what andhow I describe it is probably different,
which is why I really wrote thebook, which is to change the narrative.
(10:56):
I really want this narrative to beexpanded beyond where we have been with
these traditional interpretations and views and traditionalinterventions, because I don't think it's worked.
If it had been doing great,we wouldn't be where we are today.
So something isn't working. Some ofthose interventions, they're not working.
And as most of us in theprofessional field know, when they changed up
(11:18):
the DSM five, almost anyone canqualify now for ADHD. When you readpost
descriptors, it's how many billion peopleare there on the planet, And I
think how many billion could qualify underthat gnostic criteria. So it's kind of
a double edged sword here because we'vegot this criteria that almost anyone can qualify
(11:39):
under now, and we do seemto have a preponderance of an explosion,
almost of people who can't concentrate,people who can't focus. And so just
a little backstory about me. Mymother taught second grade for thirty two years
in the same classroom, and soI joke about having grown up in second
(12:00):
because I was part of it forall those years when I went through K
through twelfth grade and then well beyondthat. And I can remember back because
I was always in her classroom.Was there in the morning, there in
the evening, you know, you'rejust were That's how it was back then.
And maybe there was one child thatshe would discuss, a little Jimmy,
he's having a hard time. Hecan't sit in his seat. I
(12:22):
look up, he's sitting on topof his desk, He's crawled underneath.
It's you know, he's everywhere.And then the little boy who couldn't learn
how to read, so she mighthave had one. And you walk into
today's classrooms of second graders, andI feel for these teachers. These teachers
are struggling because part of how theydefine success in schools has really changed a
(12:50):
lot. And so that's a lotof pressure and the resources, as we
know, aren't quite where they needto be in a lot of cases.
So do we have these external factorscreating more of attention problems? I think
we could check that box pretty easily. Yes. Do we have a diagnostic
(13:11):
criteria that almost anyone in the worldwe swept into. I think we have
to check that box as well.So you know, it's just where we
are today, it's just where weare. I define this a little differently
though, because what my research hasshown over the years with my clinics of
fifteen years is that when I startedrunning this assessment that came with our neuro
(13:33):
feedback system, I started recognizing andit took me several years to really it's
like, is this really what I'mseeing? We had many, many,
many cases, hundreds and hundreds ofcases that came through that I've started.
After a while, it's like,you gotta trust this this is just consistent
all the way through. I didmy research on it before I published my
(13:54):
first international journal in a scientific journal. I did two years of research because
I kept thinking, this has tobe out here, this has to be
discussed somewhere, these auditory and visualprocessing problems the way I was seeing it
in my clinics, and I couldn'tfind it. I looked for a long
time, and I continued looking beforeI published the book, because of course,
(14:16):
if there's something out there, Ireally wanted to include it. But
I just didn't find anything that fitthe parameters of what I see with these
auditory and visual processing problems. Whenyou peel back any of those diagnostic labels
and we get down underneath all ofthat, And if we're finding these auditory
and visual processing problems across these thirtyseven criteria and we then tackle that with
(14:39):
brain training programs of neurofeedback and thebehaviors go away and the school success improves
and adults start doing better, thenI think we're onto something. And that's
kind of where I stand on thebook at this point. So do you
think then that ADHD is or thatauditory and visual process seeing disorders are or
(15:03):
challenges are misdiagnosed sometimes as ADHD.I think they're completely missed. That's what
I think, because I don't seemuch of anything that speaks about visual processing
in the way that I do,and I don't see a whole lot that
speaks about auditory processing. There arephysical auditory challenges like the central auditory processing
(15:26):
disorder, which is kind of abrain hearing process. So that's out there.
But when I started doing this workon the research, there really wasn't
anything that was describing what I wasseeing in my clinics, and so what
I came to understand is that kindof regardless again, if the person was
coming in with learning disabilities, theywere coming in with maybe cognitive impairments,
(15:48):
they were coming in in some casesdiagnosed with autism. Sometimes they were diagnosed
with Tourette syndrome. And I'm notsaying we're curing all of that, but
what I am saying is the behaviorsthat we're associated with that have gone away
for these children that I work with, and if they're going away, then
maybe we have something here that's makinga difference in people's lives kind of regardless
(16:11):
of why they walk in the door, right do you think it's overdiagnosed?
Do you think ADHD is overdiagnosed?Well, I think the attention problems are
real, so I think children reallyare struggling in the classrooms. So whether
it's ADHD or whether it's this otherthing, I really don't know because I
(16:32):
haven't worked, you know, withso many people outside of my clinics.
I could just speak to those who'vecome through my clinics, and what I
have really uncovered over these years isthat they can come in diagnosed with ADHD,
but I can have ten children walkin the door in the same day
diagnosed with ADHD, and they're allgoing to present differently. So that's kind
(16:53):
of the challenge for teachers. It'sthe challenge for parents is that if we're
calling it all the same thing,but everyone looks different, what do you
do for each individual person to helpthem? And that's where I think we've
lost some of the effectiveness of interventionsis that when we call we call everything
(17:14):
all the same thing, then we'reassuming that the intervention needs to be the
same thing and it doesn't needs tobe different. So yeah, so based
on that, ADHD medications are writtenquite a bit, like there's a lot
of it out there. There's ayou know the number of it's it's a
(17:37):
big industry and you get on thatsoebox, right, Yeah, but so
do does it always work? Oris it kind of like the aspirin for
the headache that's masking the symptom,or that's masking the source, that's treating
the symptom, not the source.So you know, how does how do
(17:59):
you feel about medication? Not justfor children, because we know that there
can be as much as it maybe needed in certain situations, there can
be detrimental long term effects on thatdeveloping brain because that developing brain is so
subject to that outside influence and canactually be damaged in some ways well damage
(18:26):
might be a strong word, butinfluenced in a way that may not be
positive. Like do all these childrenwith ADHD need medication? Does it work?
Is? What are the negative sidesto that? I think that's a
really important question in today's world,and it's the one I get a lot
from parents, because I really haveparents in two categories. The one category,
(18:49):
as we've been on everything, We'vetried everything, everything hasn't worked,
We have side effects, my childrefuses to take it. I mean the
list just kind of goes pretty predictableif you're in that camp and things haven't
worked. The other camp as parentsare saying, we're not interested, we
want to find something else because we'renot sure how much we really trust this,
(19:11):
and we've known people who have beendown that road, and we're wanting
something different for our child. Soit's kind of all of that that ends
up hitting my office. Now.Obviously, the cases that don't hit my
office are the ones perhaps the medicationsworking for so I can't speak to that,
okay, But what I can speakto is that for the folks that
have come into my clinics, iteither hasn't worked, they don't want to
(19:33):
stay on it, or they don'twant to get on it, and so
we're looking for the alternatives. Andin my book, I really talk I
did some dive in to the medicationside effects because I really did want to
help parents understand there are some prosand cons to that there are cases where
this works. Most of the complaintshave been that when the medications wear off,
the behaviors come back. So whatwe've done is but a band aid
(19:56):
on something, it seems like,because it doesn't really get rid of it.
It just numbs it down. Somepeople say, my son or child
is turned into a zombie. Ican't stand it. You know, there's
all of these things have been saidto me. So I think the key
to really what we're looking at istrying to find the solutions that last.
(20:19):
And if the medication when it wearsoff, the behaviors are coming back,
then that to me doesn't feel likeit's actually getting to the bottom of the
puzzle here or the riddle. It'slike we're just kind of at the surface
on this. We're treating these symptoms. So that's really where I stand.
It's like, if it's working forpeople, obviously I don't see them.
(20:40):
They don't not coming to my clinics. It's could be a large population out
there for whom this is doing great. The ones who come to me it
hasn't worked, And that's who Ifocus on, is who was showing up
and why were they showing up?Right? Right? Do you find that
with adults as well? Is itkind of the same thing like you do?
You have adults come in that sayI'm tired of being on the medication.
(21:03):
I don't like the way it makesme feel, and I'm looking for
something different, or that the medicationthey don't feel even works for them.
Yes to all of that. Soif they're showing up in my clinic is
because something isn't working in their lifefor them. Sometimes they do talk about
the side effects. Sometimes they talkabout, you know, it's just ineffective
(21:26):
for them. So there's a wholehost of maybe symptoms or side effects that
they're not happy with, and theyreally want an underlying causual factor here.
They want the root cause. Andthat's really when we run this assessment.
It takes twenty minutes, a computerbased assessment. We are able to get
a fifteen page report out of this. And when we go through this,
(21:47):
when I literally go through this withparents and adults, it changes everything.
It changes the dynamic because suddenly wehave the language that we can now all
agree on. It's like, theseare the behavior, this is what's happening,
this is the impact. And theneverything's kind of lined up and suddenly
parents realize, oh my gosh,I don't have a bad kid. It's
(22:08):
like, no, you do.You do not have a quote bad kid.
You do not have a child whois just willfully misbehaving and not following
instructions. All the time. Thatisn't what's going on here. He can't
remember, she can't focus on this, and this isn't hearing and it isn't
vision. It's literally processing. Andwhen we find it, there's something we
(22:32):
can do to help train the brainwith that and strengthen that and prove focus
and concentration. I love it.I love it. So this goes because
it's it goes deeper than just behavioralmodifications, right, because sometimes there's there's
the you know, the positive feedbackloop that you want to that you want
to create with kids, and youknow the reward system and you know all
(22:55):
of that thing that you can getinto. However, if there is a
and this is something that I've alwayssaid, when you're dealing with depressions,
when you're dealing with PTSD or complexPTSD, if you're dealing with a chemical
imbalance in the brain and or amisfiring of the brain for some reason,
(23:18):
right, you have to be ableto you have to understand that that's what
it. It's going to take somethingmore than just saying eat your p's and
when you're done with your ps you'regoing to get get your ice cream.
Right, It's right, right,it goes into balancing out the brain.
(23:40):
Well, that's just too much greatinformation for one episode, so come back
and join this next week as wefinish up our conversation with doctor Connie McReynolds
here on Brain that he speaks
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