September 27, 2023 • 27 mins
Nurses are undoubtably the unsung heroes of the medical field. But how do they protect themselves from what must be a unique form of burnout? Catie Harris built an entire world to answer that question with her business NursePreneurs.
Connect with Catie:
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PLEASE NOTE: The information contained in this podcast is not at any time and for any reason meant to replace the guidance and/or treatment of any health professional. Whether it be a medical doctor, psychologist, psychotherapist, or anyone in the medical field. If you are under the care of such a health professional, remember this is an “added value” and not designed to replace any care you are currently under.
Connect with Catie:
Connect with Brain Lady Julie
Do you have a great question or topic you'd like Brain Lady Julie to cover? Think you'd be a great guest? Message our producer Kelli@BrainLadySpeaker.com and let us know.
PLEASE NOTE: The information contained in this podcast is not at any time and for any reason meant to replace the guidance and/or treatment of any health professional. Whether it be a medical doctor, psychologist, psychotherapist, or anyone in the medical field. If you are under the care of such a health professional, remember this is an “added value” and not designed to replace any care you are currently under.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Welcome to brain Lady Speaks with JulieAnderson. Julie brain Lady Anderson is considered
to be one of the nation's topexperts on the brain personality connection. She
has been inspiring her audiences to fireup their brains and ignite positive changes in
their relationships, and now she ishere to bring that knowledge to you.
The information she shares will help thosewho hear it to accelerate their success in
(00:25):
life and business through the discovery oftheir natural gifts and maximizing their brain power.
When you learn to tap into thepotential of your natural gifts and the
power of the brain mind connection,there is no limit to what you can
accomplish. Today and every Wednesday onbrain Lady Speaks, you'll explore the latest
findings to see how they have practicalapplication in your life. And now get
(00:48):
ready to join Julie Anderson on thebrain Lady Speaks radio show Take It Away.
Julie Welcome, Welcome to the brainLady Speaks Live podcast of the podcast.
I am really excited to be herewith my guest today, Katie Harris.
Katie welcome. Once get to theBrain Lady Speaks. Thanks so much.
(01:11):
I love live I know it's fun. Anything and everything Cannon oftentimes does
happen, especially when you're dealing withsomeone like me who's still kind of technology
awkward. I pressed so far,I don't even how to do this live
on you Tube, so well forall of the guests and those listening later
(01:33):
on as a podcast, let mego ahead and read Katie's bio so you
get a little bit of the backgroundand then we'll get the real back.
Okay. So, Katie Harris isa nurse per neur mentor who has empowered
thousands of nurses in business businesses tomonetize their knowledge and skills while inspiring them
(01:55):
to change the way healthcare is perceivedand delivered. She strives to undo the
perception that nursing care is limited toa hospital setting, so, through her
intensive nursing nurse background coaching program,Katie shows nurses around the world how to
how their hard earned knowledge and skillscan transcend the hospital system into a profitable
(02:19):
business. I love that. Whata cool topic, What a cool business?
Yeah, no, it's it's Imean we started I started it in
twenty sixteen, so it's been along time and it has evolved quite a
bit. But that was always theessence of it. Just I saw so
many nurses leaving and I'm like,oh my god, they're amazing, and
they can't leave the hospital. Weneed them. I like this, I
(02:44):
like this, and they're they're likekind of those unsung heroes. I remember
back when my Thankfully I haven't hadtoo many hospital experiences, but we did
have complications with two of our twoof our children, two of the births
of our children, and so itwas it was the nurses that were the
heroes, you know. So yeah, absolutely, So that's that's that's that's
(03:07):
wonderful that you're doing this, andwe're going to talk a little bit,
not just about the business end ofit, but a little bit about burnout,
nurse burnout. And I can imaginethis has to be like huge in
the last three or four years.Yeah, yeah, I mean definitely,
COVID. I think it was astraw that broke the camel's back, so
(03:28):
to speak, because burnout and nursinghas been something that's been around for for
a long time, and it's justaccumulating with you know, just more and
more and more stuff that's always kindof put on the plate and a lot
of it isn't helping the patients perse. It's like technology. You think
technology is great, and it is, for sure, but every time there's
(03:53):
an issue, there's an upgrade intechnology, right, and then it just
for us, for nurses, ittranslates into clicking more boxes. And so
you spend like hours an hour,like literally sixty percent of your day is
taking care of the computer and makingsure that all your charting is done,
and forty percent of your day they'vedone studies on this is actually taking care
(04:15):
of patients, which is really justridiculous, right, wow. Yeah,
So a lot of the burnout thatI see and I talked to nurses about,
is this just kind of like feelingthat you're not really helping, right,
like that you've lost your way andyou've lost your purpose because the computer
(04:35):
doesn't need to be taken care of, and it, you know, checking
things off in a very long listof pages is boring and it's pointless,
and you see these patients coming inover and over and over again, and
you know, particularly in the hospitalsystem, you know, it's just kind
(04:56):
of we turn them in, turnthem out, turn them in, turn
them out, and it's kind ofvery repetitive. And you don't feel like
you're making the impact that you want. Interesting, so nice to have your
perspective, you know, to beable to your real life experience. So
you talk about and in your bio, we heard this building a business now
(05:17):
a lot of nurses, I wouldassume. I mean, I talk a
lot about the entrepreneur brain and theyou know, the boss brain and the
caretaker brain. And they're not alwaysyou know, they're I don't want to
say that they don't mix. Ijust want to say we normally go with
our strengths. So, like yousaid, someone who is nurse goes into
(05:38):
the nursing field, they're not necessarilythinking about being an entrepreneur starting their own
business. No, absolutely not.But I mean, to be honest,
what happens is that when you're innursing, you basically become a problem solver,
right, So you're on the frontlines and you see all of the
issues and then you start solving problems. And some of those problems were quire
(06:00):
you know, upper management, andthey require money to fix or they acquire
large overhauls of time and energy.And you know that's the kind of stuff
too. When you talk about burnout, is that when you see all these
problems, you bring solutions to management, and it's just kind of dismissed or
you know, not really taken seriously, and you go back to the bedside
and the problem persists, and itpersist, so and those nurses burnout and
(06:25):
they leave. And my thought was, you know, don't just leave.
There's something that we can do here. You know. So for instance,
with oncology patients, right, alot of oncology patients have no idea after
let's say they go into remission.Once they're in remission, they're completely dropped
off of the hospital space. Soyou know, this problem isn't necessarily easily
(06:50):
addressed in the hospital. But whatwhat does happen and what has happened with
some of our nurses is that theyhave built up groups and programs and horses
and coaching around the remission process,right and take care of those uh you
know, empower patients after cancer andto help them. So they've taken their
(07:13):
skill set and their knowledge and they'veturned that into a business that's helping people.
Interesting so that this is really coolbecause when I first you know,
read over your information, my brainwas going, oh, I wonder if
this is kind of like the travelingnurses, where people are a little bit
more independent, but you're talking aboutit completely not not not different businesses,
(07:35):
but you're talking about businesses that arecompletely separate from that actual hospital time.
Yeah. And another example of thatone of my nurses, she does content
writing course shows nurses how to becomefreelance writers. But it all stemmed from
her home care. Patients did really, really really well with her, and
(07:58):
you know, the home care waslike, why are your patients doing so
much better than everybody else's home carepatients? And her answer was that she
rewrote the brochure, she rewrote thepatient education material. She wrote it so
that people could actually understand it andthey weren't just like these medical jargony words.
So I mean that simple act ofwriting things that made a difference impacted
(08:20):
patient outcomes so incredibly that she endedup rewriting the you know for the entire
home care and then went on tocreate her own business teaching other nurses how
to do the same thing. Ah. How interesting, very very interesting.
And I would assume that by openingup your your mind to options of starting
(08:43):
your own business would help to dealwith burnout a little bit. Wouldn't it.
It helped me because like I waswhen I was in the hospital system,
I was really burned out. Ididn't recognize it at the time,
but like I would literally walk intothe hospital and just turn angry, hate
the world, and it was justgot to the point where I'm like,
(09:03):
I didn't even like myself like it. It's just really and didn't recognize it
at the time. I look backnow and I'm like, yeah, obviously
it was. It was burnt outbecause I had, you know, I
just kept coming into a job todo the same things, put out the
same fires that just kept coming upevery day every day. There was no
solution because the solutions I gave nobodywanted to get. The I gona not
(09:24):
just you know, doing what wepaid you to do, basically, But
it's really hard to you know,put out the same fire day in and
day out for years on it.I mean I did it for twenty years,
and it was twenty years too long. So this burnout is definitely real
for you. I talk a lotto companies in general on how to deal
(09:46):
with burnout from a neuroscience point ofview and kind of what's going on in
the brain and why it's so importantto address it and not just power through
it. Right now, I wouldguess that in the nursing field, in
the medical field in general, youwould see the power through it kind of
(10:07):
something that does that happen a lot. Yeah, I mean you definitely see
people powering through it, but it'syou know, it turns into the kind
of the apathy. And this iswhere I was towards the end too.
It's just kind of like, youknow, a problem would come up and
I'd be like, Wow, that'sjust what we do here, that's just
how we handle it, and nobodycares, and you know, that's just
well, you know, that kindof apathy and it sucks to be that
(10:28):
person. You know, it sucksbeing like that. Yeah, especially if
you started heart centered, if thewhole reason why you went into the nursing
profession to begin with was because youwanted to care for people, and now
fifteen twenty years into the journey,you're like, I don't want to see
people. Yeah, I mean,your passion for taking care of the patients
(10:50):
doesn't diminish. And you know,I would be hard pressed to say that
burnout is that the nurses don't care. They care so much that it's burnt
melt, and I think that's abig part of the problem, and just
having no outlet because there is noreal pathway for nurses. It's kind of
like you're on the bedside and that'sit. Your journey's done, and just
(11:13):
do the same thing Dane and Daleso out other than starting a business,
and we'll get back to how theywould go about doing that and figuring out
what what would they might be passionateabout that they can include in there,
you know, in potential entrepreneurial endeavor. How do they deal with it?
(11:33):
What's your suggestion with that twenty yearsexperience, what's your suggestion for them as
individuals to help them manage that burnoutand the different stages of burnout. Yeah,
I mean, I think the awarenessthat it comes on fast and furious,
it's something that's important recognizing. LikeI've talked to a lot of nurses
(11:58):
who have they've powered it so muchthat they now have like a physical manifestation
of you know, of it interms of like autoimmune diseases or skin conditions
and you know, just anxiety,depression. And the suicide rate is much
higher in the medical profession. Otherdifferent career paths. So it's definitely something
(12:20):
that manifests itself that way and beingable to recognize it early. And there's
a lot of options. You don'thave to do a business in nursing to
change scope. I mean you could. There's so many different areas that you
go and I think it's important tomaybe make that change early and I might
(12:41):
change. For me. I wasin such a myopic bubble at some point
that you know, I thought changewas going from the neuris order unit to
the orthopedic unit. But you know, it's like, my big change came
when when Walmart came and called meup one day and asked me if I
wanted a job basically, and Iwent became a senior manage talent, acquisition
and corporate headquarters. Right. Sothat was a massive change and it opened
(13:05):
my eyes to like, there areso many things and possibilities that you could
do. You just have to youjust have to look around. That's that's
interesting Walmart management. From nursing toWalmart management. That's a that's a that's
a job. It was a job. It was a surprise, but it
came at me at the most perfecttime. You know, they couldn't have
(13:28):
been better, any better timing.But you know, basically, they had
primary care clinics down South Texas,South Carolina, and Georgia and they needed
to recruit nurse practitioners in so theysaid, let's hire a nurse practitioner to
hire nurse practitioners, and so that'swhat I did. Well, it makes
it makes sense, It makes thatthat connection makes sense. Then. Yeah,
my parents and my brother used totease me about clean up one aisle
(13:50):
four and stuff, and I'm like, stob, oh those families sense a
unurse. Well, that's that's sointeresting. So now take me through as
if I were a nurse that hasbeen in the field and I'm kind of
at that burnout space. I stillwant to be connected to patients on some
(14:16):
level. I still have that portion, that core portion of my being that
wants to do the nursing, butI am done with the sixty percent time
in front of a computer checking boxes. Right, would what would be my
step? What would I do?How would I even begin to create a
(14:37):
business around my experience and my knowledge? Yeah, I mean we like to
take people through just some thoughts aroundwhat it is that they want, because
it's one thing that that nurses haven'treally thought about. They've thought about what
everybody else wants, but not themselves. You know, what they are more
inclined to. Do you like writing? Do you like being by yourself?
(14:58):
Do you want to be freelancing andinto pended or do you want to be
in the mix of things like openingclinics, men's balls, primary care,
functional care, integrated centers, youknow that kind of stuff that's all open
to nurses, or you know,do they like you know, working with
groups one on one, one toomany, that kind of stuff. So
(15:20):
kind of just teasing out what theirstrengths are and what they would love to
do if money and time were azero object, what would you do?
You know, obviously after you spentlike lots of times when luxurious speeches,
you know, it gets boring aftera while, right like after you've had
(15:41):
your fill of that, Like now, what what are you going to do
with your time? And focusing therehas been very powerful. That's that's good.
I some of the things that youjust listed off. I was like,
oh yeah, nurse would be aperfect fit, you know her medical
day spas and like I'm like,oh yeah, I went to be even
thought of that myself. That's that'svery cool. And I would guess and
(16:03):
when a person, when a nursethemselves are kind of in that moment of
burnout, they're they're not able toyou know, come up with the options
as well, because their brains justkind of done. Yeah. Yeah,
that's like I said, I wentfrom neuro to ortho. You know,
it's it's the same thing. Maybethere's a learning curve for an extra month,
(16:26):
but you know after that, it'sjust kind of like, well,
this is the same same crap,different day, different service. Yeah.
Yeah, Now you talk about nursesbeing good sells people or being good entrepreneurs.
(16:47):
That may seem counterintuitive to some ofthe listeners. Why do you make
those statements? Why do you feelthat's the case. Yeah, And that
really goes back to that whole ideaof us being problem solvers on the front
line, so finding the problems andlooking for solutions to solve them. So,
I mean that's basically what an entrepreneurdoes. They go outlook for problems
(17:10):
and try to solve them. Andas nurses, we're trained to do this
with no money, just our freetime at you know, shoestring budget and
collaborating with others, So you haveto network with people to get things done,
bring in stakeholders, and make surewhatever your project is to get done
(17:30):
to help the patient gets done.The other piece of that that I see
is that, you know, therole of the nurse is basically a project
manager. The project manager makes surethat you know, all these different pieces
come together that everybody's doing what they'resupposed to be doing. So they work
with case management and PT and theposition and the MRI tech and the you
(17:52):
know, the admins and the headnurse and a million other people like your
command central. So they're really,really, really good at multi tasking,
doing many many things at once andall to solve that problem. And then
the third thing I would say thereis that nobody can sell patients on doing
(18:14):
what they want better than a nurse. Like you know, if a doctor
goes in and tries to convince apatient to do something, they'll send in
the nurse and the nurse will havea heart to heart with the person go
through their options and there's a lotof influence that goes on there. There's
a lot of there's a lot ofsales that go on in convincing patient who's
claustrophobic to get into an MRI machine. You know, there's lots of that
(18:37):
that goes on and the nurses don'trecognize it as sales, but they're amazing
at it. And marketing is justeducation. So there's your sales and marketing.
Wow, you just like opening mymind to somebody that I'm like,
yeah, I never ever ever thoughtof it that way. I'm never gonna
walk in to a doctor's appointment again, or my mom when when she goes
(19:00):
in the hospital. I'm never goingto look at a nurse again the same.
I'm gonna look at them as asa marketing sales expert. Oh that's
that's awesome. That's awesome. Thoseare awesome tips. Now in your transition
though, and I'm assuming this isa lot of what you do is help
(19:22):
your nurses. That nurses would cometo you and say I want out of
this and I want to do this. Help me figure out what that is.
And we talked about how to brainstormoptions for them. Is it is
it difficult for them to really grassbecause an entrepreneur, there's so many moving
parts, and you just explain thatthere's a lot of moving parts in the
(19:45):
in the nursing world. But isit? Is it difficult for them too?
And I'm I'm asking this is ifI were a nurse, Right,
if I were a nurse going oneof the one of the things that I
think I would ask is like,Okay, I already went through nursing school.
I don't want to have to gothrough how to build a business school?
Right? Like? Is it adifficult transition? Do you think to
(20:06):
go from that hands on in thein the hospital room, caring for give,
giving the shots, changing the dress, you know, all of these
different things. Is that a reallyhard thing to switch your brain around and
go now I have to I'm managinga business. I have to promote myself.
I have to promote my services.It's it's a shift. How do
(20:29):
you help them make that kind ofa mind shift? Yeah, I don't.
I honestly don't think it's that thathard for them to make the shift.
In what you just said, thetwo areas that you know, I
feel like I'm always kind of pushingand you're really trying to encourage the nurses,
or one is to brag about themselvesand what they can do. Because
(20:52):
if you talk to a nurse andyou're like, what are you good at?
Oh? Nothing? You know,that's very there's a very there's a
lot of humility and humbleness. Andyou know, we're trained to be martyrs,
you know. Always I always thoughtof myself as a martyr, taken
one for the team and the invisiblewhatever. Like I was invisible for so
(21:14):
many years, and you you livedthat way. When you start a business,
it's very hard to now be visibleand to you know, showcase all
the things that you do. Likethe doctors are great at it. The
doctors are always saying how great theyare and showcasing and telling people that they're
this, that and the other thing. And nurses never do that. That's
the gross generalization, but they mostof them don't. And the second thing
(21:38):
that they have a lot of troublewith, which is very frustrating, is
taking money from people for services rendered. So those two things are extremely uncomfortable
with. And to me, it'sall about understanding the value that you bring
to the table as a nurse,and that there is a financial value.
(22:00):
The part of the problem is isthat the cost of nursing is tied to
the bed in a hospital, right, so whatever the bed costs you know,
the the financial liability of hiring thenurse comes from that from that costs,
that revenue that comes in, sothey don't see how much. They
don't see kind of that value,whereas the physician bills and they get their
(22:22):
money, and it's a completely differentmindset. So those those would be the
two main areas that they struggle with. Yeah, I can I can see
how that would be could be veryvery challenging because you're going from a from
basically getting the paycheck based on hourstoo now requesting the money based on service.
(22:45):
So it's it's it's a little bitdifferent to shift. But yeah,
I would have to agree that thosethat tooting your own horn is is difficult
for a lot of entrepreneurs, alot of entrepreneurs. But it definitely definitely
the experience like they come into ifyou were in a nurse for ten years
(23:07):
and now you're starting your own business, like your experience is just it's tremendous.
It's tremendous. I mean they talkabout like ten thousand hours, Like
I mean they get ten thousand hourswithin the first couple of years, and
they know like trauma patients on collegeypatients, you know, O b G
I n patients like the whole gamut. They just they know them, they
(23:30):
hear their problems, they see theirissues, they see them come back.
I mean, it's amazing the breathof blos they have. Yeah, that's
incredible. That's incredible. They wouldmake amazing entrepreneurs. And so that's what
you do. Then you help themdiscover what to do and then coach them
on establishing that right exactly. Sowe have I mean, we have different
(23:52):
programs that are more kind of like, if you want to open this type
of business, here's the roadmap andthe plan, and this is what we're
going to do. And we havea segment of nurses that are just kind
of like, I want to dothis, but I'm not quite sure.
I'm not quite ready. I'm notquite it's not fleshed out enough. So
we work with them on the entiregamut of stuff, and then we help
nurses we've just started in the lasttwo years to do marketing for them and
(24:17):
to really help them bring in consistentincome. I love that. I love
that. All Right, well,we're getting up to that mark that we're
going to have to wrap things up. But let's let's make sure that everybody
who wants to stay connected with you. If you've got nurses out there are
listening or you're going this could beme, let's get you. Get you.
(24:41):
Make sure you can stay connected toKathy. So you are on Facebook
and stay YouTube, Pinterest and Facebook. You have a nurse nurse business group
it's just nurse business yes, andnurse underscore preneur on Instagram and then YouTube.
You are Kathy Harris right, sothey they can look you up there
(25:06):
and nurse preneurs under Underpinterest. That'sthat's awesome. And of course for anyone
listening just just go to the showpage. We'll have it on the show
page, or if you're watching,if you want to watch this on YouTube
recorded later, then it's all.We'll all be in those show notes for
you so how you can and we'lltry to make those links live. So
all you have to do is justpress and click quick. You also have
(25:32):
a business will list your business phonesthere six zho nine three three two three
eight five two if you are listening, and her main website is Nursepreneurs dot
com and you can reach her atKathy spelled with a C at O S
C N an I e. Soc A T I E at Nurse preneurs
(25:53):
dot com. So it's not Kathy, it's Katie. I don't know why
I just said Kathy. Yeah,I sure right when I first introduced you.
All right, well, thank youso much Katie for being on the
brain Lady Speaks Show today. Igreatly appreciate your presence and the work that
you are doing. All right,thank you so much. Absolutely, and
(26:17):
for those of you watching, continueto support us by those positive thumbs up
comments. Give us your comments,give us your feedback if you If you
know a nurse right connect them withKatie if you know. If you yourself
have questions about what we discussed today, be sure to reach out to us.
You can always send us an emailat info at brain lady speaker dot
(26:42):
com. If you have a topicthat you'd like to see covered here on
the brain Lady Speaks ready our podcastslash videocast, then again shoot me an
email at info at brain lady speakerdot com and will investigate getting that topic
covered. Or perhaps you're the experton the topic and you'd love to be
on the show. We would loveto have you. So as I like
(27:03):
to finish up every show, asyou know, if you're a listener,
a watcher, give us a share, give us a thumbs up, spread
this message around, and right now, take a nice deep breath, roll
your shoulders back, go out thereand simply enjoy every moment.
Welcome to brain Lady Speaks with JulieAnderson. Julie brain Lady Anderson is considered
to be one of the nation's topexperts on the brain personality connection. She
has been inspiring her audiences to fireup their brains and ignite positive changes in
their relationships, and now she ishere to bring that knowledge to you.
The information she shares will help thosewho hear it to accelerate their success in
(00:25):
life and business through the discovery oftheir natural gifts and maximizing their brain power.
When you learn to tap into thepotential of your natural gifts and the
power of the brain mind connection,there is no limit to what you can
accomplish. Today and every Wednesday onbrain Lady Speaks, you'll explore the latest
findings to see how they have practicalapplication in your life. And now get
(00:48):
ready to join Julie Anderson on thebrain Lady Speaks radio show Take It Away.
Julie Welcome, Welcome to the brainLady Speaks Live podcast of the podcast.
I am really excited to be herewith my guest today, Katie Harris.
Katie welcome. Once get to theBrain Lady Speaks. Thanks so much.
(01:11):
I love live I know it's fun. Anything and everything Cannon oftentimes does
happen, especially when you're dealing withsomeone like me who's still kind of technology
awkward. I pressed so far,I don't even how to do this live
on you Tube, so well forall of the guests and those listening later
(01:33):
on as a podcast, let mego ahead and read Katie's bio so you
get a little bit of the backgroundand then we'll get the real back.
Okay. So, Katie Harris isa nurse per neur mentor who has empowered
thousands of nurses in business businesses tomonetize their knowledge and skills while inspiring them
(01:55):
to change the way healthcare is perceivedand delivered. She strives to undo the
perception that nursing care is limited toa hospital setting, so, through her
intensive nursing nurse background coaching program,Katie shows nurses around the world how to
how their hard earned knowledge and skillscan transcend the hospital system into a profitable
(02:19):
business. I love that. Whata cool topic, What a cool business?
Yeah, no, it's it's Imean we started I started it in
twenty sixteen, so it's been along time and it has evolved quite a
bit. But that was always theessence of it. Just I saw so
many nurses leaving and I'm like,oh my god, they're amazing, and
they can't leave the hospital. Weneed them. I like this, I
(02:44):
like this, and they're they're likekind of those unsung heroes. I remember
back when my Thankfully I haven't hadtoo many hospital experiences, but we did
have complications with two of our twoof our children, two of the births
of our children, and so itwas it was the nurses that were the
heroes, you know. So yeah, absolutely, So that's that's that's that's
(03:07):
wonderful that you're doing this, andwe're going to talk a little bit,
not just about the business end ofit, but a little bit about burnout,
nurse burnout. And I can imaginethis has to be like huge in
the last three or four years.Yeah, yeah, I mean definitely,
COVID. I think it was astraw that broke the camel's back, so
(03:28):
to speak, because burnout and nursinghas been something that's been around for for
a long time, and it's justaccumulating with you know, just more and
more and more stuff that's always kindof put on the plate and a lot
of it isn't helping the patients perse. It's like technology. You think
technology is great, and it is, for sure, but every time there's
(03:53):
an issue, there's an upgrade intechnology, right, and then it just
for us, for nurses, ittranslates into clicking more boxes. And so
you spend like hours an hour,like literally sixty percent of your day is
taking care of the computer and makingsure that all your charting is done,
and forty percent of your day they'vedone studies on this is actually taking care
(04:15):
of patients, which is really justridiculous, right, wow. Yeah,
So a lot of the burnout thatI see and I talked to nurses about,
is this just kind of like feelingthat you're not really helping, right,
like that you've lost your way andyou've lost your purpose because the computer
(04:35):
doesn't need to be taken care of, and it, you know, checking
things off in a very long listof pages is boring and it's pointless,
and you see these patients coming inover and over and over again, and
you know, particularly in the hospitalsystem, you know, it's just kind
(04:56):
of we turn them in, turnthem out, turn them in, turn
them out, and it's kind ofvery repetitive. And you don't feel like
you're making the impact that you want. Interesting, so nice to have your
perspective, you know, to beable to your real life experience. So
you talk about and in your bio, we heard this building a business now
(05:17):
a lot of nurses, I wouldassume. I mean, I talk a
lot about the entrepreneur brain and theyou know, the boss brain and the
caretaker brain. And they're not alwaysyou know, they're I don't want to
say that they don't mix. Ijust want to say we normally go with
our strengths. So, like yousaid, someone who is nurse goes into
(05:38):
the nursing field, they're not necessarilythinking about being an entrepreneur starting their own
business. No, absolutely not.But I mean, to be honest,
what happens is that when you're innursing, you basically become a problem solver,
right, So you're on the frontlines and you see all of the
issues and then you start solving problems. And some of those problems were quire
(06:00):
you know, upper management, andthey require money to fix or they acquire
large overhauls of time and energy.And you know that's the kind of stuff
too. When you talk about burnout, is that when you see all these
problems, you bring solutions to management, and it's just kind of dismissed or
you know, not really taken seriously, and you go back to the bedside
and the problem persists, and itpersist, so and those nurses burnout and
(06:25):
they leave. And my thought was, you know, don't just leave.
There's something that we can do here. You know. So for instance,
with oncology patients, right, alot of oncology patients have no idea after
let's say they go into remission.Once they're in remission, they're completely dropped
off of the hospital space. Soyou know, this problem isn't necessarily easily
(06:50):
addressed in the hospital. But whatwhat does happen and what has happened with
some of our nurses is that theyhave built up groups and programs and horses
and coaching around the remission process,right and take care of those uh you
know, empower patients after cancer andto help them. So they've taken their
(07:13):
skill set and their knowledge and they'veturned that into a business that's helping people.
Interesting so that this is really coolbecause when I first you know,
read over your information, my brainwas going, oh, I wonder if
this is kind of like the travelingnurses, where people are a little bit
more independent, but you're talking aboutit completely not not not different businesses,
(07:35):
but you're talking about businesses that arecompletely separate from that actual hospital time.
Yeah. And another example of thatone of my nurses, she does content
writing course shows nurses how to becomefreelance writers. But it all stemmed from
her home care. Patients did really, really really well with her, and
(07:58):
you know, the home care waslike, why are your patients doing so
much better than everybody else's home carepatients? And her answer was that she
rewrote the brochure, she rewrote thepatient education material. She wrote it so
that people could actually understand it andthey weren't just like these medical jargony words.
So I mean that simple act ofwriting things that made a difference impacted
(08:20):
patient outcomes so incredibly that she endedup rewriting the you know for the entire
home care and then went on tocreate her own business teaching other nurses how
to do the same thing. Ah. How interesting, very very interesting.
And I would assume that by openingup your your mind to options of starting
(08:43):
your own business would help to dealwith burnout a little bit. Wouldn't it.
It helped me because like I waswhen I was in the hospital system,
I was really burned out. Ididn't recognize it at the time,
but like I would literally walk intothe hospital and just turn angry, hate
the world, and it was justgot to the point where I'm like,
(09:03):
I didn't even like myself like it. It's just really and didn't recognize it
at the time. I look backnow and I'm like, yeah, obviously
it was. It was burnt outbecause I had, you know, I
just kept coming into a job todo the same things, put out the
same fires that just kept coming upevery day every day. There was no
solution because the solutions I gave nobodywanted to get. The I gona not
(09:24):
just you know, doing what wepaid you to do, basically, But
it's really hard to you know,put out the same fire day in and
day out for years on it.I mean I did it for twenty years,
and it was twenty years too long. So this burnout is definitely real
for you. I talk a lotto companies in general on how to deal
(09:46):
with burnout from a neuroscience point ofview and kind of what's going on in
the brain and why it's so importantto address it and not just power through
it. Right now, I wouldguess that in the nursing field, in
the medical field in general, youwould see the power through it kind of
(10:07):
something that does that happen a lot. Yeah, I mean you definitely see
people powering through it, but it'syou know, it turns into the kind
of the apathy. And this iswhere I was towards the end too.
It's just kind of like, youknow, a problem would come up and
I'd be like, Wow, that'sjust what we do here, that's just
how we handle it, and nobodycares, and you know, that's just
well, you know, that kindof apathy and it sucks to be that
(10:28):
person. You know, it sucksbeing like that. Yeah, especially if
you started heart centered, if thewhole reason why you went into the nursing
profession to begin with was because youwanted to care for people, and now
fifteen twenty years into the journey,you're like, I don't want to see
people. Yeah, I mean,your passion for taking care of the patients
(10:50):
doesn't diminish. And you know,I would be hard pressed to say that
burnout is that the nurses don't care. They care so much that it's burnt
melt, and I think that's abig part of the problem, and just
having no outlet because there is noreal pathway for nurses. It's kind of
like you're on the bedside and that'sit. Your journey's done, and just
(11:13):
do the same thing Dane and Daleso out other than starting a business,
and we'll get back to how theywould go about doing that and figuring out
what what would they might be passionateabout that they can include in there,
you know, in potential entrepreneurial endeavor. How do they deal with it?
(11:33):
What's your suggestion with that twenty yearsexperience, what's your suggestion for them as
individuals to help them manage that burnoutand the different stages of burnout. Yeah,
I mean, I think the awarenessthat it comes on fast and furious,
it's something that's important recognizing. LikeI've talked to a lot of nurses
(11:58):
who have they've powered it so muchthat they now have like a physical manifestation
of you know, of it interms of like autoimmune diseases or skin conditions
and you know, just anxiety,depression. And the suicide rate is much
higher in the medical profession. Otherdifferent career paths. So it's definitely something
(12:20):
that manifests itself that way and beingable to recognize it early. And there's
a lot of options. You don'thave to do a business in nursing to
change scope. I mean you could. There's so many different areas that you
go and I think it's important tomaybe make that change early and I might
(12:41):
change. For me. I wasin such a myopic bubble at some point
that you know, I thought changewas going from the neuris order unit to
the orthopedic unit. But you know, it's like, my big change came
when when Walmart came and called meup one day and asked me if I
wanted a job basically, and Iwent became a senior manage talent, acquisition
and corporate headquarters. Right. Sothat was a massive change and it opened
(13:05):
my eyes to like, there areso many things and possibilities that you could
do. You just have to youjust have to look around. That's that's
interesting Walmart management. From nursing toWalmart management. That's a that's a that's
a job. It was a job. It was a surprise, but it
came at me at the most perfecttime. You know, they couldn't have
(13:28):
been better, any better timing.But you know, basically, they had
primary care clinics down South Texas,South Carolina, and Georgia and they needed
to recruit nurse practitioners in so theysaid, let's hire a nurse practitioner to
hire nurse practitioners, and so that'swhat I did. Well, it makes
it makes sense, It makes thatthat connection makes sense. Then. Yeah,
my parents and my brother used totease me about clean up one aisle
(13:50):
four and stuff, and I'm like, stob, oh those families sense a
unurse. Well, that's that's sointeresting. So now take me through as
if I were a nurse that hasbeen in the field and I'm kind of
at that burnout space. I stillwant to be connected to patients on some
(14:16):
level. I still have that portion, that core portion of my being that
wants to do the nursing, butI am done with the sixty percent time
in front of a computer checking boxes. Right, would what would be my
step? What would I do?How would I even begin to create a
(14:37):
business around my experience and my knowledge? Yeah, I mean we like to
take people through just some thoughts aroundwhat it is that they want, because
it's one thing that that nurses haven'treally thought about. They've thought about what
everybody else wants, but not themselves. You know, what they are more
inclined to. Do you like writing? Do you like being by yourself?
(14:58):
Do you want to be freelancing andinto pended or do you want to be
in the mix of things like openingclinics, men's balls, primary care,
functional care, integrated centers, youknow that kind of stuff that's all open
to nurses, or you know,do they like you know, working with
groups one on one, one toomany, that kind of stuff. So
(15:20):
kind of just teasing out what theirstrengths are and what they would love to
do if money and time were azero object, what would you do?
You know, obviously after you spentlike lots of times when luxurious speeches,
you know, it gets boring aftera while, right like after you've had
(15:41):
your fill of that, Like now, what what are you going to do
with your time? And focusing therehas been very powerful. That's that's good.
I some of the things that youjust listed off. I was like,
oh yeah, nurse would be aperfect fit, you know her medical
day spas and like I'm like,oh yeah, I went to be even
thought of that myself. That's that'svery cool. And I would guess and
(16:03):
when a person, when a nursethemselves are kind of in that moment of
burnout, they're they're not able toyou know, come up with the options
as well, because their brains justkind of done. Yeah. Yeah,
that's like I said, I wentfrom neuro to ortho. You know,
it's it's the same thing. Maybethere's a learning curve for an extra month,
(16:26):
but you know after that, it'sjust kind of like, well,
this is the same same crap,different day, different service. Yeah.
Yeah, Now you talk about nursesbeing good sells people or being good entrepreneurs.
(16:47):
That may seem counterintuitive to some ofthe listeners. Why do you make
those statements? Why do you feelthat's the case. Yeah, And that
really goes back to that whole ideaof us being problem solvers on the front
line, so finding the problems andlooking for solutions to solve them. So,
I mean that's basically what an entrepreneurdoes. They go outlook for problems
(17:10):
and try to solve them. Andas nurses, we're trained to do this
with no money, just our freetime at you know, shoestring budget and
collaborating with others, So you haveto network with people to get things done,
bring in stakeholders, and make surewhatever your project is to get done
(17:30):
to help the patient gets done.The other piece of that that I see
is that, you know, therole of the nurse is basically a project
manager. The project manager makes surethat you know, all these different pieces
come together that everybody's doing what they'resupposed to be doing. So they work
with case management and PT and theposition and the MRI tech and the you
(17:52):
know, the admins and the headnurse and a million other people like your
command central. So they're really,really, really good at multi tasking,
doing many many things at once andall to solve that problem. And then
the third thing I would say thereis that nobody can sell patients on doing
(18:14):
what they want better than a nurse. Like you know, if a doctor
goes in and tries to convince apatient to do something, they'll send in
the nurse and the nurse will havea heart to heart with the person go
through their options and there's a lotof influence that goes on there. There's
a lot of there's a lot ofsales that go on in convincing patient who's
claustrophobic to get into an MRI machine. You know, there's lots of that
(18:37):
that goes on and the nurses don'trecognize it as sales, but they're amazing
at it. And marketing is justeducation. So there's your sales and marketing.
Wow, you just like opening mymind to somebody that I'm like,
yeah, I never ever ever thoughtof it that way. I'm never gonna
walk in to a doctor's appointment again, or my mom when when she goes
(19:00):
in the hospital. I'm never goingto look at a nurse again the same.
I'm gonna look at them as asa marketing sales expert. Oh that's
that's awesome. That's awesome. Thoseare awesome tips. Now in your transition
though, and I'm assuming this isa lot of what you do is help
(19:22):
your nurses. That nurses would cometo you and say I want out of
this and I want to do this. Help me figure out what that is.
And we talked about how to brainstormoptions for them. Is it is
it difficult for them to really grassbecause an entrepreneur, there's so many moving
parts, and you just explain thatthere's a lot of moving parts in the
(19:45):
in the nursing world. But isit? Is it difficult for them too?
And I'm I'm asking this is ifI were a nurse, Right,
if I were a nurse going oneof the one of the things that I
think I would ask is like,Okay, I already went through nursing school.
I don't want to have to gothrough how to build a business school?
Right? Like? Is it adifficult transition? Do you think to
(20:06):
go from that hands on in thein the hospital room, caring for give,
giving the shots, changing the dress, you know, all of these
different things. Is that a reallyhard thing to switch your brain around and
go now I have to I'm managinga business. I have to promote myself.
I have to promote my services.It's it's a shift. How do
(20:29):
you help them make that kind ofa mind shift? Yeah, I don't.
I honestly don't think it's that thathard for them to make the shift.
In what you just said, thetwo areas that you know, I
feel like I'm always kind of pushingand you're really trying to encourage the nurses,
or one is to brag about themselvesand what they can do. Because
(20:52):
if you talk to a nurse andyou're like, what are you good at?
Oh? Nothing? You know,that's very there's a very there's a
lot of humility and humbleness. Andyou know, we're trained to be martyrs,
you know. Always I always thoughtof myself as a martyr, taken
one for the team and the invisiblewhatever. Like I was invisible for so
(21:14):
many years, and you you livedthat way. When you start a business,
it's very hard to now be visibleand to you know, showcase all
the things that you do. Likethe doctors are great at it. The
doctors are always saying how great theyare and showcasing and telling people that they're
this, that and the other thing. And nurses never do that. That's
the gross generalization, but they mostof them don't. And the second thing
(21:38):
that they have a lot of troublewith, which is very frustrating, is
taking money from people for services rendered. So those two things are extremely uncomfortable
with. And to me, it'sall about understanding the value that you bring
to the table as a nurse,and that there is a financial value.
(22:00):
The part of the problem is isthat the cost of nursing is tied to
the bed in a hospital, right, so whatever the bed costs you know,
the the financial liability of hiring thenurse comes from that from that costs,
that revenue that comes in, sothey don't see how much. They
don't see kind of that value,whereas the physician bills and they get their
(22:22):
money, and it's a completely differentmindset. So those those would be the
two main areas that they struggle with. Yeah, I can I can see
how that would be could be veryvery challenging because you're going from a from
basically getting the paycheck based on hourstoo now requesting the money based on service.
(22:45):
So it's it's it's a little bitdifferent to shift. But yeah,
I would have to agree that thosethat tooting your own horn is is difficult
for a lot of entrepreneurs, alot of entrepreneurs. But it definitely definitely
the experience like they come into ifyou were in a nurse for ten years
(23:07):
and now you're starting your own business, like your experience is just it's tremendous.
It's tremendous. I mean they talkabout like ten thousand hours, Like
I mean they get ten thousand hourswithin the first couple of years, and
they know like trauma patients on collegeypatients, you know, O b G
I n patients like the whole gamut. They just they know them, they
(23:30):
hear their problems, they see theirissues, they see them come back.
I mean, it's amazing the breathof blos they have. Yeah, that's
incredible. That's incredible. They wouldmake amazing entrepreneurs. And so that's what
you do. Then you help themdiscover what to do and then coach them
on establishing that right exactly. Sowe have I mean, we have different
(23:52):
programs that are more kind of like, if you want to open this type
of business, here's the roadmap andthe plan, and this is what we're
going to do. And we havea segment of nurses that are just kind
of like, I want to dothis, but I'm not quite sure.
I'm not quite ready. I'm notquite it's not fleshed out enough. So
we work with them on the entiregamut of stuff, and then we help
nurses we've just started in the lasttwo years to do marketing for them and
(24:17):
to really help them bring in consistentincome. I love that. I love
that. All Right, well,we're getting up to that mark that we're
going to have to wrap things up. But let's let's make sure that everybody
who wants to stay connected with you. If you've got nurses out there are
listening or you're going this could beme, let's get you. Get you.
(24:41):
Make sure you can stay connected toKathy. So you are on Facebook
and stay YouTube, Pinterest and Facebook. You have a nurse nurse business group
it's just nurse business yes, andnurse underscore preneur on Instagram and then YouTube.
You are Kathy Harris right, sothey they can look you up there
(25:06):
and nurse preneurs under Underpinterest. That'sthat's awesome. And of course for anyone
listening just just go to the showpage. We'll have it on the show
page, or if you're watching,if you want to watch this on YouTube
recorded later, then it's all.We'll all be in those show notes for
you so how you can and we'lltry to make those links live. So
all you have to do is justpress and click quick. You also have
(25:32):
a business will list your business phonesthere six zho nine three three two three
eight five two if you are listening, and her main website is Nursepreneurs dot
com and you can reach her atKathy spelled with a C at O S
C N an I e. Soc A T I E at Nurse preneurs
(25:53):
dot com. So it's not Kathy, it's Katie. I don't know why
I just said Kathy. Yeah,I sure right when I first introduced you.
All right, well, thank youso much Katie for being on the
brain Lady Speaks Show today. Igreatly appreciate your presence and the work that
you are doing. All right,thank you so much. Absolutely, and
(26:17):
for those of you watching, continueto support us by those positive thumbs up
comments. Give us your comments,give us your feedback if you If you
know a nurse right connect them withKatie if you know. If you yourself
have questions about what we discussed today, be sure to reach out to us.
You can always send us an emailat info at brain lady speaker dot
(26:42):
com. If you have a topicthat you'd like to see covered here on
the brain Lady Speaks ready our podcastslash videocast, then again shoot me an
email at info at brain lady speakerdot com and will investigate getting that topic
covered. Or perhaps you're the experton the topic and you'd love to be
on the show. We would loveto have you. So as I like
(27:03):
to finish up every show, asyou know, if you're a listener,
a watcher, give us a share, give us a thumbs up, spread
this message around, and right now, take a nice deep breath, roll
your shoulders back, go out thereand simply enjoy every moment.
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