What is Discordianism: JFK, Kerry Thornley, Principa Discordia, Conspiracy Theories & Illuminati!

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
The Pope died at age 88 with an identification card numbered

(00:03):
88235 a number that holds many occult mysteries
But what if I told you there was a conspiracy group that advocated for pure chaos and numerology that somehow
Unlocked and manifested this 60 years ahead of its time furthermore
It may have manifested the term conspiracy theorist with the assassination of JFK and

(00:25):
Spiral on the many modern events like Pepe the Frog today
We're talking about discording ism here on breaking social norms
Now Josie
My lovely Normie wife. Have you heard of discording ism from you?
Okay, that's it though. Yeah, well today we're gonna we're gonna have you heard about it outside of like

(00:50):
Your crazy stuff. No, this is pure crazy land talk
But it is fascinating. It is the
The OG the godfather the architect of every conspiracy theory you've ever heard
We owe a lot
Yeah, we owe a lot to discording ism

(01:11):
Okay, the unsung hero. Okay, I thought okay is discordian ism that
Thing that came around in the 60s where they were like
making fun of
Stuff for like using it. What am I trying to say?
A joke that was a religion or a religion that was a joke there though. Yeah

(01:36):
And yeah, that's what it is spawned in the 60s. Yes, okay, and it was of course at different time
You know those old boomers. They think you're a read mad magazine
No, but I mean I know what it is
It's kind of tongue in cheek that kind of humor. Is it like the onion?

(01:57):
No
What's that I guess I've never looked at a mad magazine. I don't really know
I used to read him a bunch when I was a kid. Oh, you did? Yeah, I don't know how to explain it was just kind of a
silly goofy
Doesn't take itself too seriously. Okay, they had spy versus spy in it

(02:18):
Anyway, it doesn't matter today. We're gonna talk about discordianism because we owe a debt of gratitude as conspiracy theorists to this
Whatever it is. Okay movement group religion
Philosophy philosophy. It's all those things. It's it's hard to define and I am far from an expert. I'm actually

(02:39):
I'm actually I was working on compiling a deep dive into this subject, but but then
Your mother called and said hey, did you hear that the Pope who died at age 88 had a soccer identification card
that was numbered 88 to 35 and

(03:01):
This was apparently picked up by the mainstream media and all of a sudden you know everyone's a conspiracy theorist now
Yeah, and they're like little spooky symbolism's you know the numbers. Uh-huh because he's 88
Well, he was killed that
But oh, yeah, that's right and that was the other component is that he died at 2.35 in the morning in

(03:22):
Argentinian time or whatever oh
Okay, not in Rome. What time was it in Rome? I thought I said Argentina. I don't I don't you know it sounds rude
But I don't really care about the Pope. Oh, you don't I don't I actually love this Pope. Oh, okay. Well, I don't he's lovely
He like got
Refugees to like you know how the Pope will wash I think

(03:45):
It's typically Cardinals feet Cardinals
feet in like some kind of you know like how Christ washed the feed of whatever
And he did that
He lived in like he didn't live in the mansion. He lived in like a tiny room
He added the same pair of shoes that he had made in Argentina. Oh

(04:07):
Yeah, cuz he was from Argentina, right? Yeah, he like
Took all of his money. I guess the Pope makes like about $400,000 a year and he takes all of it 100% of that money and he would give it away to charity
Wow
He's like fucking great if all those stories are true. That is great
Why would that not be true? Because the Catholic Church has been naughty naughty for many years and they need to really clean

(04:35):
There and then they asked him if he if what he thought about like the gay the gay priest and he said I
Think his like response was like that's what that's really hard for them
Who might a judge that's the right attitude? That's exactly the right fucking attitude. What are we talking about?
That's exactly what we're supposed to say
What are we talking like I know and then people think he's a piece of shit cuz he's quote unquote woke like Jesus was woke full

(05:03):
I don't know if it's a cold was pope any
Rod and piss cold was pope
I don't I don't have an opinion on him cuz I have I don't really follow it. I don't really know. I think he's nice sounds like a nice guy
Maybe the Catholics he was more of those guys he wanted to talk to Trump and tell him that touching the kids kinds. Yes
a pinch a pinch more of that a little bit less of this

(05:27):
What are we talking about? I've got too much of that orthodox
Exceptionalism in me. I'm like it's a false religion. I don't care what happens with them
I just think good people can be in any religion and that's a lovely thing and to sit there and look at this stuff is
You know look at this person you look at people you look at

(05:50):
Religion people to people and that's a good person like
What was the other one that was like wearing the the expensive red shoes? What was that one?
The rat singer
I think it was the German Pope if I remember I don't know
Catholicism all that well, but I don't either I just think he's nice like why don't we do that more?

(06:16):
Any well anyway, so he's dead
Anyway, he's he's fucking dead
But it's interesting because the media kind of got interested in the symbolism of the numerology of the numbers and they're like wow

(06:37):
It's kind of creepy, right? Yeah, and this is kind of that's up my little alley of what you'd call synchro mysticism
meaning that
Okay, so those numbers are there
You could argue a wild
Spiracy theory that the Illuminati murder to him at 2 35 a.m. At the age of 88 because his soccer card said it which is stupid

(07:03):
It's stupid, right? That's a dumb theory, but you could argue that is that okay. Is that what people are saying?
I have no idea. Oh, okay
I'm in my own lane of life now. I don't see what other people say. Oh, I'm disengaged from social media a little bit right now
I'll be back on soon
but for now I'm just like

(07:23):
Taking it from smarter than all these people. I don't need to see what they have to say. I see I'm just joking
No, I just I don't know I just
I've so much to research that I don't I find myself I find myself
Going down tangential rabbit holes that are irrelevant and distraction because people are so they fall into the trap of the distractions

(07:45):
Yeah, and
I find myself falling down those same holes
What's hard about that is is like those described those distractions are so they're such great talking
Yeah, it gets clicks. It's gonna get way more clicks
We need to show about the opponent being in the Illuminati than to show about discordiness. I'm no one cares about discordiness

(08:09):
Yeah, but they should
That's why we're gonna do it if I if I was to talk about something in
In the salon like it's hard to talk
There's there's not a whole lot of stuff to talk about that you can talk to people about that's like safe
You can't talk politics politics piss people off. You can't talk religion, right?
So what do people talk about what you have?

(08:32):
Shows to talk about and weird creepy conspiracy theories and stuff like that
Now conspiracy is political
But which is the worst thing that ever happened. It is the worst thing that's ever happened
So it's like what it's almost one more thing that you can't talk about. You can't talk about the spooky stuff anymore people are coming around though
I'm hopeful for the the new generation of conspiracy truth or types

(08:55):
We had a rough go for a couple of years there during the pandemic everyone
Started chiming in becoming conspiracy theorist and a lot of them are shills and grifters and liars and
Things are turning I sense it. Oh, yeah, really yeah, I do I sense it
I think people are coming around to be like wait a minute
Okay, cuz uh, and I don't want to talk trash name names. We're all trying to figure it out, right?

(09:20):
I just think some of them I'm like this is disingenuous. What are you doing?
Okay, you know so
The some of the like the conspiracy okay, but really fast do you feel like the conspiracy theorist like the old school one is like an intellectual
and like the
The the the bros that took it over in the 2020 sphere

(09:46):
Don't have that intellectual they're more just spouting off the things that they read about on the internet. Yes, is that what you're saying?
Yeah, 100% yeah, there are reading books. They're just
lowest common denominator
That's why they talked about
The pandemic for five years in a row. Yeah

(10:07):
Because it gets people riled up
And they're not wrong to talk about those things at all not in any stretch
But to talk about it for five years in a row
I'm like you guys got to move on there's way more interesting things out there to talk about
Well, what the fuck do I know these guys are massive and I'm not
You know what I mean yeah one guy I did a whole show

(10:30):
That has since been removed
On uh, we remove it. Yeah, I did okay cuz I was on a network and I left the network
Because there was a dude who was like I want to be rapper and then he like he it's like Russell brand
They keep like shifting their image to find the thing that gets him the most attention

(10:52):
And then they lock in on that okay, so
I just like I don't know it just seems to me like
anyway
Just my personal
bias, okay, but it's it's shifting people are coming around and
I think that it's a good thing. I think we got good

(11:15):
Good voices in the truth or sphere now. Did you hear that Candace Owens is kind of like distancing from Trump
from you. Yeah
well
well
Well, when are you going to wake up?
Yes, we were fucking right

(11:36):
Gawley now listen. I'm not here to talk about Trump. I'm here to talk about the Pope
I'm just saying because we got to get to the Pope so we can get to discord in us. I'm just
Disco-dying I'm so sorry. I was just saying
So the Pope so everyone in the media is talking about this card, right this soccer card 88 to 35 died to 35 in the morning of the age of 88

(11:58):
Wow that's strange and
the sort of simple conspiracy is well they illuminated killed them because of the soccer card numbers which is stupid
The more interesting element is synchromysticism. It's this idea
which
While it is sort of a cop out. I will grant you it's sort of a cop out

(12:20):
but what's more interesting is that
maybe when you study
symbolism and
alchemy and the ideas of ritual magic
Quantum physics new age stuff. There is this belief you know the secret
There's this belief that you can manifest reality if you focus enough attention

(12:43):
energy
Ritualistic energy into an idea wouldn't that mean then he would have to put a lot of energy into this card to have those dates
Have meaning or somebody had to put a lot of energy into that card
Like if you're gonna talk about it like magically or synchro what did you say synchromysticism

(13:04):
Wouldn't what isn't now what that means
Kind of but or it could be just
Let me explain what my what my connection is to have why we're talking about discording ism today and that'll sort of be
An explanation got it. So when I see that number 88

(13:27):
For you know what's also means hell Hitler by the way
Oh, it does uh-huh
Go skinheads and white nationalists will have that tattooed on them apparently so I read
88 because it's eight the letter H is the eighth out letter in the alphabet so H H hell Hitler. Oh
But look at the two three fucking losers look at the two three five

(13:52):
I'm an Edward Norton. He made knots. He's look cool in American history X so hot in that movie. I was like damn
Maybe I should be a not see you do he looks sick
He looks so hot
To if you were to told me that Edward Norton was how to be like absolutely not he how did he bulk up like that for that role?
No, he looks so good in fight club. He was just like skinny kind of like normal Edward. Yeah, but yeah, but American history X he was buff

(14:21):
Anyway, he uh, which wasn't the point of the movie by the way because the whole point of that movie was he had
Reformed from that
But he looked like a bitch when he reforms. I was like, can you look cool and not be an Nazi?
So I look at the two three five and immediately I'm triggered into discordianism because there's some major tenants
Which we're gonna explain to who started discordianism what it means and some elements of how it sort of rippled out into

(14:50):
The real world and now we're all dealing with side effects of unleashing the chaos from the goddess Eris all hail Eris
Okay
So the two three five I see that and I see wow you've got two three which is the 23 enigma and the five which is the law of fives
Now let's talk about what that is those are both discordian tenants

(15:12):
There's there was that artist named William burrows have you ever heard of him? No
Uh, he was very influential with the sort of avant-garde kind of he was an out there dude
um
He was like Genesis P.O. Ridge was into William burrows
Nine inch nails was what the what's a art look like

(15:33):
He did a I don't I don't I couldn't tell you. Oh, okay. I don't know what his art was exactly. I think he wrote books
I don't know what his whole story is. I really don't know much about the guy
I just know that he was very influential in the counter culture
Person that writes books and artists
Yeah, you're creating something right now if they would be a fucking author, wouldn't they?

(15:55):
I think if you create anything when there was nothing I agree, but I don't think that that would be your title
Okay, let's look it up William burrows was an American writer and a visual artist
Okay, instead of a primary figure of the beat generation and a major postmodern author who influenced pop culture and literary wrote 18 novels

(16:17):
Yeah, no, I want to see you. I want to see one. He was the dude who show me one
No, I don't know not a picture him. I want to see a picture of his art
Because sometimes I don't know artists, but I know they're I'll I'll recognize our art. I'm like oh, I've seen that
I think he put an apple on his wife's head and then
Went to shoot it and he shot her in the head and killed her. Are you serious? Yeah, pretty sure

(16:40):
What the fuck he was an out there dude he was weird
Uh, yeah, I don't know. That's the art that pulls up
not a fun
conversation for the podcast listeners, but
The uh, so anyway this this dude with burrows was influential into the world of discordingism as well

(17:01):
Okay, and he had heard a story about a fairy captain
who had been sailing 23 years
without an incident
And then that day when he heard about this story that
Captain sank his boat and everybody died

(17:21):
And then later on that same exact day he heard on the radio
About a plane crash and that
Pilot had the same name Clark captain Clark
Mm-hmm
And from there on he started seeing the number 23 everywhere and it called it the 23 enigma
And it's the idea that just

(17:42):
this number 23 is connected with a lot of times death
Mm-hmm
And it sort of spills into discordianism because Robert Anton Wilson who we'll talk about later
wrote the Illuminatus trilogy and
Connected it into an a fictional sort of world of discordianism with the 23 enigma

(18:05):
And it was kind of a idea that
Reality
Is connected to this world of jimatria or numerology
Oh
Anyway, it's uh
It's all connected and you and you saw this with
You know that Jim Carrey movie the number 23 where he drew the number 23 owes face all over the place

(18:30):
What was the name of the movie?
That it's called the number 23 oh and he was like a killer or something and no
I remember this. Oh, okay
Well
It's interesting. What was the 23 in that movie? It was the 23 enigma like he went crazy looking for the number 23

(18:51):
I haven't seen it since it came out
But he but the artwork for the poster shows Jim Carrey. Oh, I do remember that 23 is all over his face. Okay now
Ironically also similarly to gosh. He six nine remember the rapper. Yeah
He's got the number 69 tattooed on his body 69 times and when he got arrested

(19:12):
I forget the numbers exactly, but he got arrested at the age of I think 23 or something
And he was going to be sentenced for his gang
Affiliation stuff
for
Was it 46 years or whatever the exact number of years that when he would have got out of prison

(19:34):
He was going to be 69 years old. Oh, interesting. So it's stuff like that. It's not like this is coordinated
It's just weird synchronicities of the universe
That somehow
Manifest and that's what this is with the 23 enigma
Of the 235 okay at the end of the Pope soccer card
And the law fives

(19:57):
Everything happens in fives they say as well
similarly I thought I thought it was like threes
Like famous people always die in threes. Oh, yeah, that's yeah, that's probably a similar kind of thing
I always think like is that a discordian is a mcaw the law of fives
No, the celebrities think they die in threes is something they say. Okay. I didn't know

(20:19):
I don't know the history of that
So let's talk about discordianism because I think that the elements and the ideas there are
We've all and we've all inherited that into this world of conspiracy theory. Okay
And you gotta look and do you want to talk about who started at first or do you want to talk about the beliefs of the system?

(20:42):
I don't care either. I think who started at first is more interesting. Okay sounds good to me
There's two guys named Greg Hill and Carrie Thornley
Going to high school in southern California. Uh-huh and as the story goes
They were in a bowling alley and they came up with this idea is the 1950s by the way

(21:03):
Okay, right this is beat Nick era before the hippies. Yeah, yeah
And they're talking about it. They beat nicks
I don't know okay
Probably well, I don't know. I have no idea
I'm not an expert on it. I do have this book though
Historia discordia because Adam Goeraylee is an expert on this. He's got another book that I have of his about

(21:28):
Carrie Thornley the other guy who created discordianism. Okay
I haven't read him entirely and taking notes on them though. Okay. I just casually know of a lot of these ideas
Got it
So Greg Hill and Carrie Thornley
high school buds. They're talking about the nature of order and chaos
And this is where the ideas of discordianism were actually born in that bowling alley

(21:52):
I think the story is that they wrote some of these ideas down on paper
And then later elaborated on but anyway they were teenagers. Yeah
Okay
So they would go separate ways after high school, but then circle back to each other in the 60s. Okay
and

(22:14):
the
discordianism which I don't know if they had the name for that in the 50s yet or not, but the idea was born there and
they were talking about
how because there was a lot of sort of
right wing
I don't want to call them conspiracies because that

(22:34):
vernacular wasn't really in the
Yeah, I guess conspiracies was a term they used
because what you're going to find out is that discordianism
bleeds into the JFK assassination which is where we get the term conspiracy theorist
Okay, but the term conspiracy was around before this right

(22:57):
So back then in the 50s there was these it was the Cold War. Yeah, and there was these conspiracies of communism. Yeah
So Greg Hill he kind of
never he wasn't as famous as Kerry Thorneley
But he was part of this these two guys that created discordianism. So let's talk about Kerry Thorneley

(23:23):
aka Ravenhurst because you got to have a cool nickname if you're in discordianism
Greg Hales was Malak Malakalips Malak I'm a butcher in the fuck out of that. Okay. Anyway
Kerry Thorneley
He's got he had quite an interesting life right he
joined the Marine Corps in the late 50s

(23:44):
became friends in the Marine Corps with Lee Harvey Oswald
the guy who yeah supposedly assassinated JFK
And what was strange is that he wrote a book while he was in the Marine Corps about some disenfranchised
Marines and Lee Harvey Oswald was one of the main characters of this fictional book in you know

(24:11):
1961 that he wrote it. It's called Idol Warriors I believe
Okay, so this happens and
He gets out of the Marine Corps and he moves to New Orleans with Greg Hill
Because they were because Greg Hill and Kerry Thorneley

(24:32):
They meet back up in Southern California and they're like partying lay and they're bitching about how
It shuts down too early. So they're like let's go somewhere where they party all night. So they moved to New Orleans. Oh, okay
And unbeknownst to
Him unbeknownst to these guys Lee Harvey Oswald also

(24:53):
Get's out of the Marines and moves to New Orleans
Strange okay
So
Lee Harvey Oswald so then you know 1963 Lee Harvey Oswald assassinated JFK
Kerry Thorneley writes another book about Lee Harvey Oswald because that first one Idol Warrior

(25:15):
Wasn't successful at all right
And then the assassination
brings about the Warren Commission to try to solve what really happened with JFK
And the the Warren Commission was trying to consider various
Alternatives to the idea that this guy Lee Harvey Oswald just shot him and they called him you know

(25:38):
Let's consider these conspiracy theories and from there the CIA would write a memo
Of an attempt to discredit conspiracy theorists and that's where the term conspiracy theorist was born. Okay
So
When the Warren Commission's research and all this they stumble across this Kerry Thorneley book

(25:59):
So they force Kerry Thorneley to testify
And when he testifies he sort of toes the line and is like yeah, I could see
Heart Lee Harvey Oswald doing it, you know lone gunman thing
But then later apparently Kerry Thorneley would suggest that maybe

(26:21):
Oswald was a victim of MK Ultra
And some people label him a paranoid schizophrenic
It's also strange
And there's huge chunks of story behind all this but you know if you want the whole thing there's a
Adam Gorelli's got like this 500 page massive book on the history of discordianism and a whole separate book on Kerry Thorneley

(26:44):
Okay, so
Then here's where it gets interesting because they carry Thorneley go into the military too
Kerry Thorneley was in the Marine Corps. Yeah. Oh, he's the one that was in the Marine Corps. What's the name of the other guy
Greg Hill
Greg Hill I told you to stop with your drinky. I know I told my pot my audience

(27:06):
How mad you were about my ice drink and I'm telling you they don't hear it. They do fucking hearing leave a comment on the patreon
Do you hear my ice clinking when I just drank it? Did you hear it? Yes, they didn't hear it
This microphone is superior. It drowns out anything. It's not within the
two-inch radius of it
Anywho who's the other guy Greg Hill Greg Hill in mollacolips

(27:29):
Greg Hill wasn't in the Marine Corps
Or both of them were in the Marine Corps. Just Kerry Thorneley was in the Marine Corps
Okay, and he
Kerry knew Oswald. Yeah, and Kerry wrote a book
He wrote two books the first book was written in 1961. We Lee Harvey Oswald as a main character

(27:50):
Then after the assassination he writes another book about Lee Harvey Oswald to try to like capitalize on the oh, okay
Of it apparently okay, and and and it goes deeper this I mean the history of this whole thing is bizarre like
I
Don't it's been a while since I looked at this because I started writing I started doing this research at least a year ago and then

(28:13):
Got distracted and then your mom called and I'm like oh we should talk about this. Oh, okay
Now I'm looking at my notes. I'm like Jesus. What else was there? Oh, there was multiple
I believe Kerry Thorneley was alleged to be
Part of the plot that the CIA there's a conspiracy theory that the CIA had

(28:33):
Multiple people who looked like Lee Harvey Oswald in New Orleans that week before the assassination and they would go around town
And they would make crazy public statements like oh, I wish someone would kill that president Kennedy
The CIA did this it's a conspiracy theory, but yes
Okay, and supposedly Kerry Thorneley was one of them because he looked kind of like him or something like that

(28:58):
okay
So let's talk about the Warren commission a little bit because this gets really interesting
Okay, remember that movie JFK by Oliver Stone uh-huh
The main character played by Kevin Costner. He plays Jim Garrison. He was the district attorney of New Orleans who

(29:18):
Kind of
Investigated the Warren Commission because he didn't like he didn't trust what they were saying okay about the lone gun material
And Jim Garrison served as a pinnacle to Kerry Thorneley
Also because he also was like what's up with this Kerry Thorneley guy this is a real person. Yeah, Jim Garrison was a real person

(29:43):
Okay
Because Jim Garrison thought the CIA or the FBI or whoever was paying
Oswald and Kerry Thorneley
To be part of this whole this phone is driving me crazy. I know
To be part of this
Conspiracy that I was telling you about about going around town. I mean, I wish someone would kill the president so that people would see

(30:11):
Lee Harvey Oswald and say yeah, I heard this crazy guy earlier in the week talking about yeah
He must have been him that killed JFK
Okay, wait
Jim
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(30:37):
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Jerry's what's his name? Garrison Jim Garrison
aka Kevin Costner
Who is a real person not Kevin Costner but the Jim Garrison they're both real people. Yeah

(30:59):
Is actually investigate this is a true story. He is actually investigating the Warren commission. Yes
And he's I haven't seen the movie JFK since it came out. I know I haven't seen I can I don't remember it
I don't remember it being good and being in depth and being my dream
To know some stuff. Oh was it. I don't I don't even remember I don't remember I came out and I was like what?

(31:23):
Okay
So he was saying what he's saying
That he interviewed people that was saying that they saw a crazy person. Yeah, Garrison thought that Carrie Thorling was part of a CIA conspiracy
to
assassinate JFK got it. Okay, is the short version because

(31:44):
He kind of looked like Oswald and he could have been one of the people that was walking around
Saying we should kill this JFK. Yeah, got it. I'm with you. But Carrie Thorling was like hey, I was in New Orleans
But I didn't even know Lee Harvey Oswald was here with with me which does sound kind of preposterous
Either way

(32:07):
The whole the Garrison case collapses
Carried Thorlingly gets off
Anyway, but so
There well
So I feel like some of this kind of goes down side rabbit holes. We don't need to do

(32:28):
Okay, so
While Carrie Thorling was in the Marine Corps. That's rewind a little bit right mm-hmm. He was in Japan
Suppose one of the conspiracy is that he was
Also involved in some kind of MK ultra stuff because this is the 60s which is when MK ultra was happening. Okay

(32:53):
and
Carrie Thorlingly was in Japan
With Lee Harvey Oswald
Doing MK ultra stuff supposedly
conspiratorially okay
And Carrie Thorlingly had heard while he was there that Oswald defected to Russia
And that was part of the inspiration for the first book idle warrior because it was about disenfranchised Marines

(33:16):
And Lee Harvey Oswald was like the main character because he was like the ultimate disenfranchisement
Because he defected to Russia
mm-hmm
And Carrie Thorlingly thinks
that um
Was he in the CIA?
Who?
Carrie Thorling

(33:37):
No
Okay
So Carrie Thorlingly I and this is kind of an amalgamation of there was I took notes from a couple different podcasts from Adam Goer at least book
and so on
Why did he think that um
Lee Harvey Oswald was like disenfranchised and was why was he writing books about this guy?

(34:01):
Was he walking out? Was he like that? Was he disgruntled?
I don't know
Like what they were going through bait because they met in basic. Is that what you said?
They met in the Marines. I don't know where when
Oh okay
But what was strange is that Carrie Thorlingly thought
apparently that he might have been part of

(34:21):
some kind of
mind-altering program to
forget his activities which does
align with the
Project MK Ultra goals is to make people
commit murders and things and then be able to wipe their memory of that event like a mentoring candidate. Okay

(34:43):
So the irony here is that
Carrie Thorlingly who started discordianism
Which is all about chaos
Is living a sort of chaotic life. He's not really sure what's real and what's not
Later on people say he's paranoid. It's schizophrenic. Okay on some level

(35:04):
and
This is where
Robert Anton Wilson comes into the whole scene
We
Let's let's hold off on Robert Anton Wilson for a second
Okay, because we got to go back to

(35:26):
The roots of discordianism which is this book because every religion has a foundational book, right?
The principia discordia is the book foundation for discordianism
And like I said the origins of it date back to the 1950s bowling alley
But they didn't publish an actual proper book
Until 1965 okay

(35:48):
In Adam go right at least book
He says that in 1965 they printed five copies. There's that law five stuff
Which is one of the many sort of weird things that comes out at discordianism
and the reason that came up is because Carrie Thorlingly when he left New Orleans actually moved up to Virginia next to the Pentagon and

(36:10):
he
Thought that the sacred geometry of the Pentagon was fascinating and thought it should be the headquarters
for discordianism and even try to get a PO box inside of the Pentagon
Okay for the headquarters for fan letters or something
It's so strange. Okay, cuz you know the Pentagon is five sides and

(36:32):
Okay, the center of its pentagram, which is the one of the most occulted symbols of
Magic and stuff
Do they have like a post office in there?
I have no idea. I have no idea. They must it's huge. Maybe there must be a post office in there
But but even in 1965 they print five copies. It's still virtually unknown until

(36:57):
Robert Anton Wilson comes along and
Sort of gives it new life
But let's finish talking about principia discordia first
Koi okay, I know that's what I'm saying. It's a fuck man. It's a massive strange topic. Okay, so principia discordia becomes the sort of

(37:17):
Bible of sorts and
When you read it because you can get the pdf it reads very like silly almost
Cuz that was sort of the humor of the time book
Before the book of discordia is no this is the discordian book

(37:38):
Okay, okay
Where they lay out when did they meet back up they so so remember they were living in norleans after he got out
Outra carry got out of the marines they moved to norleans sixty. Are they gay one? I don't think so
Okay
Wait a minute you're telling me a straight man goes back to south

(38:03):
Uh California Southern California. Yeah
I don't know
Leans back up with his buddy from high school
The two of them like to go out to party together. They don't like that the parties end too early in south in Southern California
they then go
To norleans to live together. They were they living together?

(38:24):
Presumably, I don't know not an expert
To party later
Yeah
Does this guy think that the other guy has schizophrenia?
I don't know where the schizophrenia came in. I don't know if that was a real
diagnosis or a conspiratorial claim about karythornley

(38:45):
Or where that come from I just have it in my notes from somewhere that I'd heard okay
But now I've got the authoritative source in adam go right least book. I'm gonna look I
Intended on reading through and taking notes from this book to bump up because these are just kind of
Casual things that over the last you know

(39:07):
12 to 18 months. I've been
John down notes when I hear about the schority and his I'm gonna put it on my little phone on my little note. Oh, okay
So a little sloppy
Okay, right admittedly
So
All right, so where are we now? Sorry. I'm just trying to stick with the timeline. You're kind of jumping. Yeah, I know

(39:28):
It's a little confusing. That's okay
But we're talking about the book princípia dyschordia and
this book
they
Were printing it off and sending it through the mail all throughout the 60s and I would argue until 1975 but
Anyway, that's how it all started. They started the first copies of this book

(39:53):
Were printed in norlings when they were there
In Jim Carers in Jim Garrison's office
using his
Coppier or printer after the
In what year was this? It was in the 60s. So it might have been before the the

(40:13):
I think the garrison
The war in the garr the Jim Garrison like
Investigation into the war in commission. I think ended in 1969
Okay, so you this is happening somewhere in the same little five year period of 65 to 70
that
Greg Hill and Carrie Thornley

(40:35):
Were printing off copies of their princípia dyschordia book in Jim Garrison's office because
Greg Hill and Carrie Thornley were friends with a woman who worked in that office
Oh, okay
It's very strange
now
To make it even stranger we can connect this into the beautiful world of Twin Peaks

(40:57):
Jesus
Okay
because
Grace remember Sarah Palmer Laura Palmer's mom okay
Grace Sabrina is who plays her character
her father owned a bar in
Norlings
and

(41:18):
Because she lived there
There's the oldest continuously operated gay bar in the United States
Mm-hmm, and she was friends with Carrie Thornley. They're fucking gay
Grace Abrisky
Was
Possibly lovers with Carrie Thornley so pump the brakes who? Oh the woman. Yeah, Grace Abrisky

(41:40):
Sarah Palmer okay
She was friends who carried through her that some people alleged they were lovers
Okay, so not gay
Her family owns a gay bar
she's hanging out
Where she's hanging out with this guy? Uh-huh
who's

(42:02):
printing off
his
Weird little book that he wrote with his best friend
Yes
in the office of a lawyer who would then accuse him of
going around and being a
a person

(42:22):
To distract or a person to be a part of the assassination the assassination
Yeah, am I getting all this you're getting it. What the fuck? Okay
because
Grace
Zabrisky's sister lane
Kaplinger
was the one working at Jim Garrison's office

(42:47):
Okay, so that's the connection there
Very odd
So did she work Grace yeah, I don't know at the gay bar maybe
Now you're conspiracy theorists yeah
All right, josey's gay Carrie Thornley conspiracy. I mean, I'm not a part you looks like you're you're cooking here. I don't know maybe

(43:13):
I mean if it
I mean it was a time frame when you couldn't be openly gay. I said I'm saying
So anyway, they're right this book
People exist but he could fuck men and fuck women and Kanye West
Yeah, you know they exist

(43:34):
So they write this book for a kibbea discordia and if you read the book it tells you what discordianism is all about
Good luck making sense of it. It's wild
So what's it all about well?
It's a religion disguised as a joke or a joke disguised as a religion and the

(43:55):
Occult element of it is that they believe in some ways
An interpretation of the book is that reality
can in fact be shaped by ideas and
Exaggerations this is the CIA. I don't believe it
In the 60s the CIA was putting their little fucking dirty fingers in all kinds of places

(44:18):
Like they were going into the art districts and like with all the artists and stuff like that and buying all their fucking art and making these people rich
So they would shut up about anti-war stuff
So you have the same people that are doing
um
What is it called mk-altra stuff?
Trying to change opinions of

(44:42):
The
The anti-war rhetoric
Yeah, simultaneously
funding and pushing
um the hippie bullshit
Right? Yeah, totally
There's a CIA the CIA wrote this fucking book. I don't I like the theory

(45:04):
There's no way well let's keep going to see this is not bullshit. Okay, this kid these two young kids
Are in a bowling alley like two fucking young kids are and they're writing a book about a joke about a religion
Shut the fuck up. I don't believe that. You're not buying it. Do you believe that?
I mean when you say it like that

(45:25):
Two guys two young guys they're trying to they're trying to find what life was like in the 50s people used to
They're trying to fuck people in button up shirts
So I may be maybe our
Teenagers today are just stupid
I mean, I I'm right there with them. I wasn't talking about
Chaos in order and writing a book about it and the when I was a teenager

(45:49):
That's all I'm saying. I was like, huh? How do you finger girls?
You know, but I the 50s was a different time. I mean well they were trying to finger girls too
They're not trying to hold Mary Jane rotten cross
You know
What are we talking about this is the CIA?

(46:09):
I'm gonna ask Adam go rightly all this. Okay, I need him
Want someone to interview him again about this. Okay
Let's talk about something you're really trying to sell me on some shit and I'm like this is not the truth
I got it. I would need I need to be more educated on all this and maybe that maybe that's a great conspiracy
Maybe you just came up with something great. Okay. I don't have enough information to to have a firm

(46:36):
A painting to say your way off base or maybe you're on the money. I couldn't tell you the way
It's that is an interesting point. I mean they were all over the place. It was a crazy time
It feels like anything in pop culture mainstream is put there by the
Intelligence agency. That's what it yes. So how does this how does this thing?
They're gold. You know what I mean? Yeah, they were causing it was a

(46:59):
They were killing MLK
This is yeah, they were wiling out back then they were being crazy
So you're gonna tell me two kids wrote this fucking nonsense absolutely not it's keep okay. Keep going let's
There
Did you hear that nice stop slashing it around

(47:20):
They were selling the book they were talking about how I just think you could get a cup with a handle and a straw
If I had put two seconds of thought into it beforehand I would have done that that is just a lot less
Recording and shit here we go with the ice cup
Well, it's hot. It's just it just makes a lot of noise
So in the book they present various ideas that are kind of occulted right it's the idea that

(47:45):
Lies can even become a reality anything your reality is malleable, you know
okay, and
There this includes the idea of order and disorder they call it the aneuristic principle
about
social constructs
and even the constructs of male and female and

(48:07):
And they use it there's a phrase reality is the original Rorschach
And it's totally true right? Okay, wait
Reality is the original Rorschach and those are the butterfly pit the ink block yeah, okay
And and what else did they say that order and chaos are basically just two concepts

(48:31):
And there is no such thing as order or chaos like everything is everything kind of thing
Everything is everything okay
So
Chaos to them is the main operating principle of reality there is no such like order doesn't exist
That's just an illusion
Created to make you feel safe

(48:51):
Well, if that's the case and the fives would be an illusion also
And the 23
Excuse me he's trying to make
He's trying to make order out of chaos he's seeing the number 23 he's saying he's seeing the five
These are all I got you. Yeah. Yeah, that is kind of a bit of a an order thing right? It would be he's looking for order in chaos

(49:14):
well
It
Let me keep going okay
They think that if you accept this idea of chaos you can have clarity
And enlightenment and understanding so they worship
The origin story and this is gets again it gets out there okay the origin story is about the Greek goddess of discord or chaos

(49:41):
Eris
She was the Greek out of chaos the Romans called her dyschordia. Okay, that's where the term dyschordianism comes from
It's about the worship of eras their Greek out of chaos. Okay, so they'll say they'll say hail aress
all hell dyschordia
and the origin story is that

(50:03):
She started the Trojan war with what they call the original snub and it's a wedding where
Zeus invited everyone to this wedding except for eras
Because he was like I don't want this chaos here. It's got us chaos. Now is this an actual story or is this just one that they made up?
Ah, you know, I'm gonna have to ask chat gpt. Oh

(50:27):
Let's see was the original snub a real Greek mythology story
Let's see if chat gpt knows the answer
It says
Ah the original snub that iconic moment in dyschordia mythology where eras goddess of chaos those are golden apple into a divine party because she wasn't invited

(50:52):
Was it a real myth and I think it what it sounds familiar. No, there was an apple. Remember this story of Helen of Troy
No, anyway
Okay says
The story is based on a real myth called the judgment of Paris
Which plays the role kicking off the Trojan war
The gods are partying at the this wedding everyone's inviting except for eras

(51:16):
She's pissed so she crashes the party and tosses in a golden apple that says to the fairest
So it starts a fight between Hera Athena and Aphrodite each
claiming that they're the fairest right and Zeus
Why is enough to not get involved tells the mortal Paris of Troy to decide

(51:36):
Each goddess bribes him and Paris picks Aphrodite who gives him Helen of Sparta and boom Trojan war
So in percipia dyschordia this story becomes a cosmic prank and the origin point of all disorder in the
universe
Now I should just have Chad GPD do this podcast
The golden apple is labelled Calisti in Greek means to the prettiest one and the snub is seen as the sacred

(52:03):
act of discordian sabotage and eras becomes a patron saint of divine trolling
So while the name the original snub is a discordian invention the core myth is authentically Greek
reinterpreted through satire absurdism and countercultural philosophy
But in discordianism this isn't a myth it's metaphor chaos

(52:23):
Is not the opposite of order. It's the origin of story
Anyway back to my notes
I will not be replaced by AI. Okay, but remember
Remember what
Who's that guy the John
John what's that guy's name? Who'd you just interview

(52:47):
Dr. Jacques Vallet Jacques Vallet to understand today we have to look back
To the path
I like that good call
Okay, well um, so it's okay. I make it up. They just took the story
My notes say the same thing it's Chad GBT except in my notes

(53:13):
Here's my notes. Okay, the mythology comes from the original snub Zeus throws a party at Mount Olympus
Everyone but eras invited eras wrote Caliste
Which means to the prettiest on a golden apple rolls into a bank will haul
Hera the net and Aphroditey
They argue over who belongs to and they take it to Zeus and he's like I'm staying out of it
And instead he lets Hermes a trickster god take charge

(53:36):
Hermes takes the amount Ida in Greece where Paris was hanging out
The son of the king of Troy Hermes
What's Paris to decide and then they all plea
Aphroditey gives Paris the the he chooses Aphroditey Aphroditey gives Paris
A woman named Helen the queen of Sparta and that's how Helen becomes the Helen of Troy

(54:00):
This is the first war among men the Trojan war and this is how chaos enters the world. Okay, so
Discoordian origin story is taking Greek mythology story and putting a little twist on it
What was the twist though that was a wedding that this is the
um origin story for chaos entering the world
That's what it just said though

(54:24):
Yeah, well, that's the discordian
No, not oh
That's not the real Greek mythology part of it
I think the point of the Greek mythology is that this is how the Trojan war started with the discordians like
No, it was different. It was more than that. It was chaos entering the world. Got it. Okay. I'm sorry through the goddess erus
I okay

(54:44):
so
And in the principia
discordian book
It presents a bunch of different ideas
For example if you and it's supposed to be
It reads and seems like it's supposed to be this lighthearted funny take on things
When did the national lampoon stuff start coming in?

(55:06):
Was that also in the 60s? No idea. This is all old boomer shit. I have no idea
natural lampoon
But that's similar
Like joking. Yeah exactly. That's like silly like mad magazine. Got it
Okay, when did national lampoon man. Well the people want to know now

(55:26):
Let's see
National lampoon magazine launched in 1970. Yeah, so it's all around the same time. Okay
Dark absurd satirical humor
It spawned a comedy empire animal house national lampoon's vacation
And van wilder which I saw in tiktok would did you know that that's the story of bird christcher

(55:49):
What yeah
bird christcher that comedian the guy
he apparently
Was like this party animal in college and rolling stone or someone did a whole article about him
and then he sold the rights to his story
Which was eventually bought by national lampoon

(56:10):
Which
Filmed van wilder which stars Ryan Reynolds
As bird as bird christcher. Ew. Isn't that strange? That's weird. I saw no tiktok
These people were interviewing bird and bird said he's never even seen the movie. He he'll watch it if he gets to watch it with Ryan Reynolds
I never seen van wilder, so I don't even know that's bizarre. I didn't know that. Yeah

(56:37):
Anyway, there's very silly ish ideas from discordianism like
You can claim any position you want
You want to be a a popo discordian
Josie, okay, you're now a tenth degree pope. Congratulations
I feel like that's the cabinet of the government at this point. Well, I think it connects into that too

(57:00):
It actually does because you were called they called
The wwe president's wife
now is the
Is over the education
Secret okay, well they called him the chaos candidate for many years. Do you remember that when he first ran? Yeah chaos
discordianism right

(57:20):
It's said in the book
In the I've the fifth edition pdf and the introduction was written by Robert Anton Wilson
Well, I didn't talk about Wilson did I let's go back
So Robert Anton Wilson
I don't have it in my notes here
He

(57:43):
Okay, so he was an editor of playboy magazine all right and he apparently knew Kerry Thorneley also which maybe adds more to your little theory
Maybe Kerry Thorneley is like CIA
and
At the time Robert Robert Anton Wilson was collecting various conspiracy type letters

(58:03):
And he would talk to this guy Robert Chee and he was telling Robert Chee was like dude these conspiracies
Would make a good fictional story
And so he does this and he
writes a series of books called the Illuminatus Trilogy in 1975
Because he knew Kerry Thorneley and he knew about discordianism. He baked that into the story and the story and this is a guy

(58:30):
Okay, I'm sorry. I just forget names
This is the guy that was best friends at the bowling alley. No, okay, who the fuck is this guy Robert Anton Wilson was an editor for playboy magazine
That has nothing to do with
He was friends of Kerry Thorneley also
In in Southern California or yes at some point. Yes. Don't ask me the timeline. I'm not the next one on this

(58:54):
Okay, but apparently he knew Kerry Thorneley and
So so these three fucking kids
From Southern California just all happened to getting these really powerful positions
Yes, and write a book and become an editor at playboy

(59:15):
Fuck off. Well Wilson didn't know them when they were teenagers. Oh, he didn't from what I gathered in my notes
They met later on in the 70s. Oh, okay. I guess I could be wrong
Okay, I'm not an expert on this. Okay
You said that

(59:36):
So
He writes so Robert Anton Wilson playboy editor writes this fictional story called the Illuminatus trilogy and he
Proposes there's this evil shadowy organization called the Illuminati and then you've got the good guys who are the discordia society
I tried to read these books. They're very difficult to read. Okay, I don't get it

(59:58):
But I have a horrible fiction is not easy for me
and
The point here is that
What you are seeing is the birthing of these terms conspiracy theorists
the Illuminati
And even though the Illuminati was kind of already a group blamed for the French Revolution

(01:00:24):
But this is when things started going into the sort of pop culture mainstream of America
In the 70s. Okay, so when I say the beginning we owe a huge debt of gratitude to these people
It's because of this
because if you didn't have them you don't have
Assles like me

(01:00:45):
and the
Robert Anton Wilson wrote the introduction to the fifth edition of the Principi of the Scoria
with his new promoted rank of international arms and hashe
Incorporated
And he says if organized religion is the opium of the masses

(01:01:06):
Then disorganized religion is the marijuana of the lunatic fringe
most disorganized of all religion
discording is him alone understands that organization is the work of the devil
Little anarchistic kind of vibe right?
And you can see how the

(01:01:28):
The roots of the idea of being sort of because there is this vibe of
right wing
fascist order right because the right wing loves order ballin orders like
Which I don't understand because they hate the government at the same time, but then they want the government to
put the hammer down on

(01:01:51):
You know crime and the illegals and scary things and protect us and it's a weird. I don't I don't get it
but the right wing
It's the sort of fascist element of the right wing like they love law and order. Yeah, they want a strong man
To really punish the criminals. They love punishment. They were always talking about

(01:02:13):
Daddy's home daddy's home. Yeah exactly. They talk about Trump daddy's home. They love it
And and then you've got discordia which
Remember back in the 50s Greg Hill and Carrie Thorneley
We're talking about
These two like hippies
I don't know okay, I mean, there's the 50s so they're probably beat next beat next. I mean. Yeah, you don't know. I don't know. I don't know

(01:02:39):
I have to have a face
These are great questions you can dig into
All right, go ahead. These are great questions that I will have to add when I do a formal deep dive analysis. Okay. Understand. All right
The
So they they wanted an ant they proposed I ideology that was

(01:03:01):
An opposing ideology to right wing
Fear of communism. Mm-hmm
John Birch society stuff because John Birch society was like that is sort of one of the major influences of all conspiracy thinking
Is this right wing group?
The job are side of the spread fear and
Conspiracy theories about the left economy is them all the time. I wonder if the you know the how Jacques Vallet was like

(01:03:29):
Talking about the Collins elite about them being
Like the thing that stopped the progression of the ideas of trying to figure out what the aliens were
He didn't say the bleeding Dr. Vallet didn't say that. Oh, I I said that

(01:03:51):
Based on other researchers like Nick Redfern claims that like a guy named Ray Boucher and Dr. Vallet's book
He talks about trying to
Barify that this group existed, but he never really
Confirms it. Okay, so just to
To clear to to muddy it up a little more. Well, I just want to make sure that people aren't saying that oh

(01:04:13):
Doctors are for L.A. said the Collins elite thrill like oh, okay, it's very clear that he's like I he's hearing about this
Collins elite. I can't verify any of this though
Like he kind of suggested it's but that those are the that's the group you've got the the
The group of the chaos people right like the um
You're drinking is out of control. I can't I can't drink now. There's no ice making noises

(01:04:38):
You're drinking so much. I'm talking so much
If you got the group that's like the um
Who's what's the guy's name that did the the rockets?
Jack Parsons Parsons you got the the occultist Parsons group out here doing drugs and jerking off in front of

(01:05:01):
Uh poor little Elrond Hubbard in front of Hubbard having to watch
And then you got the other group that's the law and order group
You know
Right like and they're scared of communism. Okay, I'm with they're starting wars because they don't want communism to spread and they it's weird because NASA

(01:05:22):
Where Jack Parsons was hanging out basically is full of Nazis so now they're all the same fucking people
You see them saying like they're all meshing together
Yeah, straight. It's got it. Okay, go ahead. What I'm just thinking this is the fucking
This is the government the government wrote this book
And put this out. Why do you say that because

(01:05:44):
They like to muddy the water. Oh you think that the government which is
notoriously full of right wing law and order folks
That's why jagger Hoover was but they're also the occultist group, but they're also the occultist group which seems more leftist to me

(01:06:05):
Right
Maybe or maybe they're just maybe just the bullshit. Yeah
You would think well, why does it why do you have to be leftist to be in to Satan?
Well, I'm just saying if you start about stereotypes like the right wing is like the law and order
Christian crowd uh-huh and the left is like the

(01:06:26):
godless atheist
Science science crowd. Yeah, okay. I'm just trying to I'm trying to work with you here. Okay. I just
That's more believable
Than these two kids just being crazy doing weird shit
Yeah, I'm with you. This is strange just now that I've you put it like this

(01:06:50):
I'm curious if there's more info about this maybe maybe maybe other people have claimed this too. I don't know
It's uh, it's not a topic that people bring up often
Besides mentioning it and passing they'll say like oh there's a law of five or the 23 inigma
Yeah, myself included right? I don't know the story. This is like

(01:07:11):
ancient history and it's
Mass topics and it's weird and it's strange and it's foreign and
There's so many this carry thornly guy is like connected to everybody and everything which to me
I think you're right like that's the biggest red flag doesn't make any sense to me happen
Like why did he write a book about Lee Harvey Oswald before? That's what I'm saying

(01:07:34):
I guess one of the strange elements of the story. It's not like a hidden part of the story
It's one of the big things of discordianism that everyone brings out. They're like this guy wrote him
He was literally working with Harvey Oswald and then he wrote a book about him before he even just like why would he do that?
There's like maybe
This was all coordinated
Anyway, but the the discordians they are

(01:08:03):
more into
I don't know anarchy kind of stuff it seems like because they obviously worship chaos
okay, and they
don't like social constructs
To me it seems like a more liberating idea
Yeah, so I don't I don't dislike those elements of it

(01:08:25):
But then there's also this element like Robert Anton Wilson that
Sort of lightens up the mood of conspiracies and puts out a sort of
silly vibe into it
Well, that might make it more palatable
The silliness of it
Yeah, maybe instead of going like full black pill. Yeah

(01:08:47):
Yeah
Like if you if you put if you put like these little silly
Then it's like you don't get the joke dude
It's like uh, yeah
Or maybe that just is the sugar to make the medicine go down
Maybe but there's also an element of
discordianism that believes in ritual magic or chaos magic

(01:09:11):
Uh-huh because because everything is chaotic they think that
you could
Employ these occult measures to organize bits of it into whatever will you your will is
You know
And they have weird things like um an example

(01:09:34):
You know in a religion you've got dogma. Mm-hmm. Well in discordia you've got catma
Just I don't know it's just silly stuff. Mm-hmm
I just think
that these are the
occultist

(01:09:55):
That we're part of
The MK-Altra stuff and the um
You know what it's I I
I'm gonna cut you off with its relevant to your point okay before I lose it
I just finished a book called Poisoner and Chief about Sydney Godleab and the MK-Altra projects uh-huh
And Sydney Godleab was in fact a sort of big old hippie type dude. He like lived out in the

(01:10:19):
Him and his wife lives on a cabinet ship people are like you're weird dude
Mm-hmm
Well think about like all the LSD
Things that they were doing with the military and all of that you know
Yeah, cuz after Sydney godly we've got out of the CIA. He tried to live this sort of hippie lifestyle
So I mean there's something to that. Hmm
Okay, go ahead

(01:10:41):
But they have a sort of zen like vibe about him in discordia like they don't want to
They think that if you try to constantly fix things it just makes it worse
So you have to sort of like one of the cat musk is that life is too important to be taken seriously
Hmm

(01:11:02):
Okay, which is kind of it's kind of interesting right yeah, this isn't just dumbass shit no
so
And then they have this part that's kind of like a Buddhist
Yeah, there's there's elements of that in there too
But let's talk about how it bleeds into modern-day pop culture and stuff

(01:11:22):
much like the terms of the Illuminati conspiracy theorists sort of
Flow through
discordianism you've also got this discordian idea called operation minefuck
And it's this idea that you would just mess with the public
um

(01:11:43):
It was it was a it called like
I don't know culture jamming
It's this idea of
I
Guess like a modern day example might be
What do you call what's that I can't think of the term remember in like 10 years ago. There was a thing where
Flash mobs. I was okay. Flash mobs. Mm-hmm kind of like that is how I read it

(01:12:07):
and
This was suggested by getting a guy named Alan Chapman
But it was part of the sort of prankster element of
Because you remember there's like the Ken Keezy and the pranksters the Mary pranksters remember that no, but I mean
speak of no

(01:12:30):
but like look at the
What
He said that like you're mad
now sorry um, you know like um
Who's up who's the guys that are the
The guys in New York that are getting him up for
Sexually salting people

(01:12:51):
And practical joker. Oh, yes, you got that and then there's jackass jackass. Maybe there's um
Just like in the YouTube generation of all these kids were that were going around and just being total assholes after the jackass thing
like the Jake Paul's
And that you know those type of kids that are they're trying to be um Instagram and YouTube famous

(01:13:15):
Yeah, and they're just doing a lot of like
obnoxious things. Yeah
In fact, that's like half of the shit on tiktok
where people are going up and being obnoxious to strangers and
Trying to get a laugh out of them. Well, and this in this context in discordia it was supposed to be a

(01:13:36):
tool of
forced enlightenment in a way okay
To sort of wake people up by
Pushing them into this chaotic scene of some kind
I know I'm not explaining this too well, but it's it's uh
I'm trying to think of it if there was an example

(01:13:58):
Well, that's like that 60 wasn't on like 60 minutes when they would put people into
Weird situations and just see what they would do. Yeah, maybe something like that
Yeah, maybe that's kind of a good idea. Okay. What's you what's you what's the human condition gonna do in this kind of
Situation where they'll have somebody yelling at somebody about race shit or whatever and see what people do

(01:14:20):
Yeah, yeah, it's about kind of flooding the
The psyche of the masses with different ideas kind of okay, and
This is where I think you get a lot of stuff like QAnon
or flatter society
Like these are kind of birds aren't real the birds aren't real. Yeah, that's a great one

(01:14:43):
It seems like these are absurd ideas and they kind of are
But then they get that's not really the point
The point is to make you like the reason there's a flat earth society is that
If you watch the documentary, he's like these are just a group of people that
Bond over their
ridicule

(01:15:04):
That the others don't get
Like it's not really about the earth being flat when you watch the documentary and you're like
Is that really about that you guys are just found a way to find a group
Like you could have just went crossfit or a church something are they but you fell into this oh
Well, that's kind of like what conspiracy is now

(01:15:26):
Yeah, it's just kind of it's just kind of a thing like it's the cool kids club now. Oh
Calm down you guys are definitely not the fucking cool kids. You know what I mean
You're 100% not the fucking cool kids
Well
Agree to disagree

(01:15:46):
Yeah, okay, but you'll notice that people but you'll notice people that are newly
Redpilled into this they are very excited are very excited. Yes, you know what I mean? I don't know how to explain it I agree
But so I think got their eyes open and they're very excited. They're pervert like that. They're very excited about their

(01:16:11):
And these new ideas or whatever and when I talk to them when they when they
It's weird. I can I don't know how to how to explain it, but I can see it in their eyes when they
Talk to me like now that they're read I
Predominantly in 2020 in 2021 and one uh when they first started being like wait a minute. What's going on? Yeah only like I guess they had a blind faith in government to tell them the truth before and now they're like

(01:16:40):
I don't trust anything and I'm like
Well, that's an oversimplification, but good for you for sort of like
Trillion question now, but you could see that they're so naive and like
like not like children, but kind of like children
Yeah, like sponges soaking up everything and I'm almost like oh no

(01:17:01):
You're about to get like down some black pill pants. Okay
Is kind of like yeah, because once they
It's you know what it's like
It's like a religious person like a Mormon who's never drank
Yes, and they've decided to not follow their
Religious beliefs any longer and they're now into the world. Yes, and everything that they

(01:17:27):
weren't allowed to do is now on the table
Yes, and they're gonna try it all and they're super excited. They're excited
and they're
Like you said like they're like children into the situation where they don't know the limits because they didn't do it when they were kids. Yes

(01:17:48):
And I and I you can see them on the verge of spiraling
And I go no oh fuck this is about to not be good
But yeah, there's like a there's like a magical element with
charging up sigils and silly things
like when

(01:18:09):
When you remember you remember the whole story of Trump and Keck and Pepe the frog. Yes, like that whole strange
Environment that happened on forechan through what was very much a discordian type effort of
these chaos magicians
Channeling energies and trying to make Hillary Clinton trip and then she tripped
and

(01:18:30):
Then they they rolled numbers on their forechan post of dubs and trips and quads
When they post and they find sort of synchronistic
numerology in there and they're like oh my god, we got quads when this happens like it's crazy, Bill
I don't know what you're talking about on that one

(01:18:51):
Because when you post on forechan, okay, it it assigns a giant number
to that post and
It'll be I don't even know 10 digits long
And they'll find value in if the post has two repeating numbers next to each other
And they'll call that dubs and then if someone responds and then it has three numbers it'll be trips

(01:19:16):
And those are significant to these people in a way
And that was part of the meme mat the the pepe and the frog thing was
People hitting these quads and trips and dubs when they would make certain posts about
Hillary Hillary Clinton falling at the at the uh
Convention or whatever she was doing okay anyway again weird topic but

(01:19:42):
And I've got one more fun one david bowie also
Did similar discordian type of things
He made a prank one time it was called the nat date prank
Where he had published a book called nat date an american artist

(01:20:05):
Which claimed to be a biography about this
reclusive artist named nat date
and
It was this story about his life and how he committed suicide at the age of 31
But none of it was real it was all just
For fun I guess

(01:20:26):
Okay, it's just weird
I don't like people that do pranks. It's truly
I don't like it. I trolley
When people try like I don't mind little jump scare things like when me and you play little jump scare bullshit things together
Like that's fine. I don't think you love it
But it's but like people that are like this

(01:20:49):
It's so obnoxious to me. Yeah, well me and david bowie though. We love to have a boy. I don't like I don't there's like a couple on
Tiktok where they literally like I don't know they'll have like buckets filled with this weird
Like white creamy shit
I it looks like glue or paste or something like that, but it's like not as thick. Well, it's pretty thick. It's thicker than milk

(01:21:11):
Okay
Consistency in milk maybe a little thicker like a milkshake and they like
Have balloons and they'll I don't know if you already move his couch. Oh, yeah, boy. I think I'm always catch
And it's like shoot fucking darts at it and when they're when their significant other comes in
And they'll explode the balloon that's filled with this white shit and they up both laugh. They love it

(01:21:37):
I don't think it's funny. I fucking hate it. I don't think so. And then they'll and then they'll pop with a thing where confetti flies all over the place
And they'll do this in their home. I think I think I've seen those
What a bunch of fucking maniacs
Could you imagine I would feel so uncomfortable in my home if you were like good to just
By chance drop some fucking thick ass white shit all over me when I was walking through the house and then you like that much chaos

(01:22:03):
I would fucking punch you in your throat and I would leave you
The one time you did that to me one fucking time. I would leave so fast you find peace in the order
of
Calm I noticed I told them I wrote on their thing. I was like thank god you two found each other because I couldn't imagine

(01:22:24):
This ever happening in any other person's fucking home you made a mess
That was gonna take you 45 minutes to clean up. Yeah, and you're doing this consistently
I would fucking kill you. They're doing it for money though
I mean if that was your job if you could bake now he's a cop the guys a cop they have jobs they've got tick-tock money now

(01:22:47):
That's why they don't mind cleaning up
Confetti for two hours. So just made 20 grand off that dumb video
Outrage and people like you on there like
You know maybe you have children grow a fuck up you weirdos
Do you imagine these children are gonna think this is normal life
And they're just gonna think that this is funny. I fucking hate it. They're traumatized

(01:23:11):
They're not gonna be traumatized. They're not gonna have friends
Do you want to be friends with people that are sitting there playing pranks constantly you can't be comfortable around them no
*laughs*
Do you like that?
I don't know I mean when I was younger I thought it was funny doing shit like that

(01:23:35):
I wouldn't want to clean up a house though
I would hate that
I just don't I don't like to be pranked. It makes me angry. I don't like it either. I don't think
Like there was a guy in the military used to always smack you in the balls
Uh-huh. How fun did how how fun was it to be around him? I didn't like it. It wasn't funny to me

(01:24:00):
fucking hurt
I still I still like cover my dick
When people when I think someone's gonna like
Even if I don't think they're gonna ball check me. I'm just so used to getting ball checked
That's what I'm saying
You can't relax around these people
It's obnoxious you have a constant state of anxiety

(01:24:23):
Well apparently they're fucking trying to do that's what they're trying to do to us
They're trying to keep us in a goddamn kettle at a certain temperature
No the discordians say you have to just accept it for what it is
No, if you come around me and you fucking ball check me I'm punching you in your face

(01:24:44):
We're fighting we're gonna fist fight now not that I have balls, but if I did
I'm gonna fist fight you. I don't think it's fucking funny
And I'm just supposed to just like laugh and walk through life
Oh, that was a good one now. I'd like to talk to somebody about just someone like Adam go right

(01:25:06):
Lee perhaps that knows the ins and outs of discordianism
To sort of unpack the philosophy and like how does this apply to real life
So now is this a thing is this like a philosophy or what is this
It's whatever you want it to be there's no order. There's no rules to this. Don't you get it?
There is no is it a law it's a way to live your life, but that's what I'm saying is it like then that's the that's the philosophy then

(01:25:35):
Philosophy's do with our will
Alistair Crowley
That's my point
It's a way to live your life
It's the jackass way of life
Oh my god, I don't know. I sorry you just talked to someone who knows more about this
Uh, like Adam go right there

(01:25:56):
We'll call him get him in here
Adam give me his number. It's a fascinating subject and I'd be yeah, you bring us in great points that we need to unpack
Okay, who were these people were was this all intelligence operation? Where they gay? It's not the first time. Where they gay
I think they're gay

(01:26:20):
Lots of good questions here bullshit. I just feel like the people that like know people
End up in these positions. That's what this that's what this life is taught me
Okay
Nobody's famous for no fucking reason. Ah, you're probably right about that. They're kids of somebody
That's probably true

(01:26:40):
You know
They've done that you got to do you got to make a sacrificial offering or
No, I don't believe that they know somebody
Maybe maybe that's the operation mindfuck is to make people believe that Katy Perry sold her sold an Ariana Grande sold her sold her
The devil for fame when the reality is not their parents were just famous and rich and or rich and they had in paid off someone that

(01:27:06):
Let them open the gate. I mean that sort of turns turns out everybody knows everybody and they're all related to each other and
You know, yeah cuz look grace that grace subrisky connection to
Carried thorny like that's kind of weird. Okay, and let's look at the um
uh

(01:27:27):
Who are you loving right now?
Right out chili peppers
Anthony cutest he's hanging out with fucking share
Mm-hmm when he was a kid
share
Do you see them saying? Yeah, nobody's famous for no fucking reason these people are all
Knowing each other

(01:27:50):
Bullshit
There you go here to hear wasn't the doors. What's the guy's name?
Jim Morrison Jim Morrison's dad was in the fucking what CIA or something he was uh
Admiral on a Navy ship in the Gulf of Tarkin when
We got into the Vietnam War which was bullshit, which was bullshit the Gulf of Tarkin didn't even fucking happen didn't happen

(01:28:15):
I just don't believe it
Everything's uh everything's an illusion for money
Maybe that's the maybe that's the real goddess here got us a money
And maybe discordia is to
float the ideas of chaos when everything computer

(01:28:39):
Everything's computer
Everything's computer
But yeah, I mean Trump embodies the chaos candidate. I mean let's get it
Just trying to fuck with us man and and maybe that's a good metaphor here
is the discordian thing
Is an in CIA front

(01:29:01):
To push this idea of operation mind fuck and chaos and there's really no order to this world
And they're doing that to distract you
To make people like me say
Ariana Grande sold her soul to the devil to get famous when nope. It's really all about money
Her parents are rich and they paid off some guy to get get her famous

(01:29:24):
Ariana Grande's mom in the FBI or something her dad owned a
Part of the military industrial complex
Some communications group
And Trump they're trying to be like oh Trump's okay. Look at this guy's chaotic when it's like or he's just doing everything to make a lot of money
Like maybe that's the real truth of it. There isn't there's no chaos these things with the terrorists. He's putting them on

(01:29:49):
He's taking them off like or he's really playing the market telling his buddies when to invest and when to sell
They literally did it on true social. He's like that was a good time to sell or whatever he said
Good time to buy good time to buy it's a good time to buy right now
I mean maybe maybe that's what it is. Maybe it's just like they got us all distracted with all these other ideas and it's just rich people to rich people to see

(01:30:12):
Maybe be scared who knows what's gonna happen. Here's a great motivator
I don't know. I don't know about this. Well
I'll keep digging into it. I'll see if I can answer your question if they're gay and
Whatever
So if you want to support the show

(01:30:33):
Go ahead free
Early access
patreon.com/breakingsocialsandorms
Or apple premium hit the hit the button on the apple podcast. I'm you're in
Okay, and I will do some more homework on discordianism. I just thought this is a great the pote the pope thing was a great example of how to dive into this topic
To wet the whistle

(01:30:55):
Okay, and as you pointed out there's a lot of questions that remain that I'm not a good answer to anything that comes out of
The 60s the 50s and the 60s. I'm like
That's the government that yeah that boomer age group was one of the most propagandized groups in history. Was that fell for it?
Yeah, I mean it was so strange they went from

(01:31:17):
drop-and-assid
and hippie communes to
Root and for Ronald Reagan and Wall Street capitalism to
Eat up the fucking pours. Yeah, it's crazy. It's like dude you guys just listened to everything you're told
Which is crazy because they're like your mind was supposed to be expanded with those psychedelics

(01:31:37):
What the hell happened?
But you know we didn't live that experience. I don't know what they went through. I mean they were
There it's lead
The lead they have a lot of
Led in the gas they're breathing all that lead
There's lead in all the paint on all their like fucking
dishware

(01:31:59):
Their parents physically abused them
The environment was full of shit out of these people. Yeah
They went through serious wars and shit. I mean
I'm not I'm not shaming them. I just it's just a different experience. Yeah
So they're workers
Maybe I'll tell you I those
Those boomers did work they did

(01:32:21):
That genie is uh, I don't think you get it back in the bottle
That's all I'm like, who you want to make this a factory worker nation? I don't think so. What do you think about how like um
What's her name
Sarah Huckabee the hair Huckabee in Arkansas. Okay. I wonder who that is. She used to be the press secretary

(01:32:44):
She used to be the one
She for like George Bush now for Trump
Okay, she had dark hair. She a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. She she's like she does something in fucking Arkansas. She kind of looked like um
Francis from peewee's big adventure
Ha ha
Right

(01:33:06):
Yeah, that's what I yeah, that's her
It is
Anyways trying to they're they're writing laws now like in in Arkansas and in um
Florida
So children can
Not have labor laws against them anymore and they can go work in the factories and work in the fucking fields and

(01:33:30):
Shit telling you it's uh, what are we doing?
What are we doing maybe they saw the rise of China and they're like we need to do what they did we need sweatshops
Oh, my can we not?
I seriously, I don't want to do I don't want to live like that. I thought we liked America like American values

(01:33:50):
I thought sweatshops were bad
That's what I thought but
Man they can't say that out loud that's what it seems like they're like we're gonna bring the factories to America and have American made products
And it's like well, I like the idea of American way product
Why it's because of the sweatshops that they do overseas and

(01:34:11):
More of your dollar stays in America if you're buying American made in American products
Okay, but to spool all that up seems like
An excessive amount of money with a workforce. Do you know that there's some there's some percentage of factory jobs that they
Currently can't fill
Because Americans don't want to do it

(01:34:32):
It's like the farms like the reason they hire those illegal immigrants is because they can't find Americans to do it
I mean what are we talking about
Can people wake up you know these is this is boomer ideas of what America should look like going
From the 1940s. They're like let's do that again. It's like

(01:34:54):
We don't want to young people don't want to do that stuff
And I don't and maybe there's like some school of thought that says
It has to be this way because of fill in the blank. I don't know
Why why would it have to be that's how real men get made I mean look at well
Look at what the Chinese did they had all those sweatshops and factories and they put all that money into their economy and

(01:35:16):
Now they're super power
Taking us over
Maybe maybe that's the school of thought is like well, we got to do that again. I have no idea
I don't know enough about economics to have an educated opinion on it
All right any who okay
I guess everything is

(01:35:38):
Computer and everything's computer. It's all chaos and
Who gives a fuck I guess right? That's right. I mean, I think that that's a little nihilistic and kind of has like that
Feel of like a libertarian thing
You know the that and our key like just kind of let things happen the way they're gonna happen. Yeah

(01:35:59):
Don't try to stop or prevent anything just let it happen
Well, yeah, the AI is gonna take us all over okay
Well, let's be on the good side of the AI then I mean that's a that's a there is some
There is some relaxing

(01:36:20):
Idea of just letting go and be like all right well whatever
Guess I don't have to go protest or pay attention to the news or whatever we already have too many of those people
Yeah, that's our whole country. Well, that's what the pop culture entertainment and the mind numbing
Stuff is for it's to well, I think it's that you got like the mind numbing stuff that's happening
But then you've all also got this other thing of like

(01:36:42):
Completely bombarded by information to the point where it's like overwhelming
Mm-hmm
Where it's just like I I can't
Drink from this fire hose for one more second, right?
I'm gonna go sitting a baseball field or whatever you're gonna do. I looked up. I'm gonna look it up on chat

(01:37:04):
I'm gonna watch football on Sunday
Get drunk and punch my television
You know that sounds great
And then I might have a little domestic abuse if my team doesn't win
The Raiders picked up the running back from Boise State

(01:37:26):
I don't get it. It's draft yesterday. Oh, that sounds great. Very exciting. Why?
Because we need a running back
I mean it doesn't matter who cares. Okay, that's all I got on discordianism
Who cares? Let's just punch each other in the balls and do make jokes

(01:37:49):
Maybe that's the happier way of going
No, but I like your conspiracy that the discordianism could have been an intelligence operation
To make people feel apathetic and just be like wow everything's chaos everything's computer
When the reality is like no you've got rich fucks doing rich fuck shit

(01:38:13):
Yep, and they're trying to make me talk about Ariana grannacellia sold the devil
It's like no
Her parents were rich fucks doing rich fuck shit
And they all know each other uh-huh
They all hang out in the same circles
Okay, there you go you just you just witnessed the birth of a new conspiracy theory

(01:38:35):
From a normie from a normie
Josie's gone full red pill
All right, okay
Anything else? All right, if you enjoyed the show and you want to get rid of those pesky ads
patreon.com/breakingsocialarms

(01:38:55):
Josie will see you in that comment section where you could tell her if you heard me clank and ice or not
So sign up links are always in the show
Just drink it you drink soul out. I'm telling you they didn't hear a thing. They absolutely do not a thing
All right, everybody we gotta go till next time we love you

(01:39:18):
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