September 17, 2025 • 51 mins
Tonight on The Brian Crombie Hour, Brian interviews Kim Wright and Sabrina Nanji. A panel featuring Kim Wright of Wright Strategies and Sabrina Nanji of Queen’s Park Observer analyzes the Ontario Liberal leadership review and Bonnie Crombie’s resignation. Bonnie secured just 57% support, meeting the threshold to stay but falling well short of expectations. Wright argues that any result beginning with a five signaled weakness, pointing to Crombie’s rocky third-ballot win, her late choice to run in Mississauga, campaign mistakes, and lack of a seat as major obstacles. Nanji emphasizes Bonnie’s indecision on where to run, weak organization, and failure to win Mississauga seats, noting internal tensions and reports of a caucus revolt against her leadership.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The views expressed in the following program are those of
the participants and do not necessarily reflect the views of
SAGA nine sixty am or its management.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the Brian Crombie Radio Hour.
This weekend was the Tailor Liberal Party's convention and they
had a leadership review, and for some strange reason, I'm
really interested and intrigued in what happened, and so therefore
I've got Sabrina n Angie, who is a journalist and
the founder of the Queen's Park Observer with us today.
She says that she's known as a great journalist but
(00:38):
also someone that knows a lot of gossip, and so
it'll be interesting to see what she's got to say.
And Kim Wright from a communications company called I Think
What Rite Communications and right Strategies, Right Strategies, I apologize,
And she's known for her strategies, her public relations, her communications,
and her political activism with the New Democratic Party. And
she was texting me a couple of comments of what
(00:59):
was going on this weekend while it was in action.
And so I've got some interesting guests for you to
hear from today. So Rita, why don't we start with you.
You know, what do you think what happened? Like, I
thought that what I had heard, she was going in.
She thought she had seventy percent, and then it was
sixty one percent, and then it was fifty seven percent,
and then she was going to stay and then she
was going to leave, and like, tell me what what
(01:21):
you think happened?
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Yeah, I mean I think they're like where to begin, right,
I think you're right that, you know, Bonnie Cromby had
a higher number in her head. What I had heard
was that that's, you know, what her strategists told her,
and specifically, you know, insiders called out Alexis Slovine and
Tom Allison, you know, veteran liberal strategists specifically, and they
(01:44):
said that, you know, her data wasn't the best.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
When it came to delegates. There were, you know, some.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Hundreds of last minute dropouts, which meant other delegates were
being promoted. So obviously, at the end of the day,
it did not go the way Bonnie Crombie wanted it to.
I mean, technically she got in enough to stay on.
You only need fifty percent plus one. She got fifty
seven percent. The unofficial cut off in Canadian politics tends
to be sixty six percent, but fifty.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
Seven percent is pretty pretty low.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
It's a pretty measly number, and if you think about it,
that's like, you know, roughly half of the party saying
that we want to have a leadership review and we
want someone else in there. And so I think the
most surprising thing to me was that, initially after the
vote results were announced, you know, eventually announced because there
were delays on delays, you know, Bonnie Crombie addressed the crowd. Notably,
(02:37):
Caucus was not on stage with her. That was kind
of one of the biggest tells that there was some
you know, drama, a bit of a rift happening behind
the scenes, is that she first stayed on first she said,
you know, this isn't the number I wanted, but I'm
still here. And then, you know, within hours, maybe even less,
I think she had put out a statement saying she
was going to resign. She canceled her press conference that
(03:00):
was planned with reporters for after and even the next day,
you know, during the plowing match, which is obviously a
very big to do in Ontario politics. When it comes
to like, you know, the rural parts of Ontario, body
Crombie wasn't there, and one of her MPPs sort of
took the lead and gave the big speeches and.
Speaker 5 (03:15):
All of that.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
So, I I mean there was a lot of talk
about what was going on because I think her staying
on at first, a lot of people told me, you know,
this is really untenable. I said to you know, a
high profile you know, organizer in the Liberal Party, Like
what you think it's maybe she tries to hang on
(03:36):
for a year and then eventually she has to back off,
and they're like, no, think a week and then like
you know, within minutes, she was gone.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
And so I think a lot of people just said
it was untenable.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
And now, you know, rumors abound about who wants to
throw their hat in the race for a leader now.
But I think one of the other interesting things was
the so called caucus revolt that the Star used those words,
and so that there was a caucus revolt behind the scenes.
You know, Bonnie Crombie would not get support or at
least unanimous support from the caucus, and so I think
(04:08):
that's probably the moment where she saw the writing was
on the wall and could not continue in that role.
So yeah, I mean, I do think that she left
the party better off than the way she found it.
They've got recognized status, they got a bigger chunk of
the popular vote. But at the end of the day,
you know, Bonnie Cromby didn't win her seat. She did
not really meet expectations. And so now, for the third
(04:29):
time since twenty twenty, you know, the Liberals are again
searching for a savior.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
To help get them out of the penalty box in Ontario.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Kim, what do you think what happened?
Speaker 5 (04:40):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (04:41):
Math?
Speaker 5 (04:42):
Fundamentally, Math, I mean Bonnie Cromby started the convention during
a scrum where she said the numbers are arbitrary. Well,
I've been a political hack for thirty five years and
the numbers and leadership races are not arbitrary. That's, you know,
whatever you might think. I was talking to a number
of folks like me in the political world, but on
(05:05):
the liberal camp, and they said their talking point was
anything more than she got into leadership was to be
seen as growth, which was the most absurd thing I'd
ever heard. Like it was supposed to be the Crombie coronation.
In that leadership, she should have gotten Mark Kearney esque numbers,
and she didn't. It was a third ballot fifty three percent.
(05:26):
So I'm like, so fifty four is okay, fifty five
fifty Like never in my wildest fever dream, And did
I expect fifty seven percent? And look, the reality is
any number that starts with a five in a leadership review,
you're done. Whether it's in that moment or a couple
of minutes afterwards, you are done. And so we saw that.
(05:50):
I you know, I was on the ground as an
observer of all that was going on and having lots
of conversations with folks. Was definitely not with their. Lots
of people that were wearing caucus was not with her. No,
caucus was not not not unanimously and the blood oath
that was being required of them on Sunday before before
(06:14):
she before the results came out, there was There was
absolutely in the room as it's being reported, but as
I've been hearing, absolutely not. Look you start going back
to the campaign again, the Crombie coronation didn't happen in
the leadership. It was a third ballot, squeak it out victory.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
You know.
Speaker 5 (06:35):
Once there was the famous Christmas card that went out
from the Crombie family that had her sitting on a
fake gold throne. I made a lot of commentary about
that when she didn't win, we didn't win the leadership,
that this is not a real victory and not a
real crown. Then she scrambled to find a seat to
(06:55):
run in, leading into the last election Mississauga, where she
has you know, rained quote unquote for quite some time
after being handed the mantle from Hazel mccallian, no one
understood why she didn't just automatically say, you know, babe,
Ruth calling your shots, I'm running in Mississauga X. And
it was the last possible moment, which led observers like
(07:18):
myself to comment, if you can't win your hometown, if
you can't win the people who know you, who have blood,
sweat and tears with you, who voted for you in
the past, if you were dodgy about running there, you've
got bigger, fundamental problems. Then there was the bus that
had that had errors on it. If you're going to
(07:39):
run on a single issue campaign, get the numbers right.
There was a photo that was taken of Bonnie and
the launch of that bus that had the word last
right behind her head. I don't know if that was foreshadowing.
Her tourist staff just didn't think about these things. But
all of these things continued. Then we get to this
week and four robocalls before before the convention even started.
(08:05):
They had no g TV members. You had caucus members
not showing up. You had not showing up to the convention,
which is a pretty if your leader is on the line,
it's a command performance. So that there were some that
didn't show up is certainly problematic. But also let's be
very clear, it's not that she didn't win her seat
(08:27):
in the last election. She never had a seat to
start with. There were many opportunities and by elections she
didn't have a seat, She didn't get a seat, and
there was no plan on the foreseeable future to get
her in the House as an official person. And then
the most shocking of all to me when I was
looking at the agenda of this convention was her keynote
(08:49):
address to sway delegates, to move delegates, to get the
hearts and minds behind her, was scheduled for after the vote. Now,
that's this ridiculous thing on levels, Like most people will
want to like, here, let me tell you why I
am awesome and I should stay on and here's my
path to victory to do that after says to me
that her staff already knew that every time she opened
(09:13):
her mouth to give a keynote speech, she lost points.
We saw this in the run up to the election.
I'm not trying to be caddy or churlish in any
of this. That's just the reality of if you're putting
your keynote speech after the ballot is closed, it means
you're not really good at it. What we saw from
the alternates who got pumped up after that speech, they
(09:34):
were three to one against Bonnie. And how do you
know that's that is what is being reported is that
it was a three to one. The GOOTV numbers were
a three to one vote against Bonnie, and they'll they'll
be able to see that in the entrails. Here's the
alternates that voted. If it's you know, then then the
numbers of the numbers. So, as I said at the start,
(09:57):
math math got in the way of Bonnie.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Unbelievable.
Speaker 5 (10:02):
So yeah, it was shocking all the way through.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Sabrina. What do you think was her decision? You know,
some people think not to run in Milton where there
was a by election one of the fatal flaws.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Yeah, I mean, I guess like hindsight is twenty twenty, right,
But obviously, you know, I don't think that there was
really a chance for Bonnie Cromby to show the Liberal
you know party faithful that she can run somewhere and
win something. And Milton, you know, she probably had a
pretty good shot there. And to Kim's point, you know,
even the Liberal Party's own campaign post mortem said that
(10:36):
the fact that she was waffling and took a very
long time to decide which Mississauga riding she was actually
going to run in hurt not only herself but also
the other candidates. Like she didn't win her seat, she
didn't gain a seat, you know, because she didn't have
one to lose, but.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
You know, they didn't win any Mississauga seats.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
And so for the Liberals to you know, not get
even a single spot there and it all to be PC,
I think was you know, probably arguably one of her
biggest sins according to like a lot of Liberals that I.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
That I spoke with.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
So, Kim, this sounds like, you know, it was a
bunch of problems for a long time. Do you think
that her her organizers didn't anticipate this. They they didn't
prepare her for it. You know, what's what's your sense
of things?
Speaker 5 (11:25):
You know, I don't know if it was they were
overconfident and remarkably ill prepared for how gootv and voting
actually works. But there's some season pros in there that
some of them had been sidelines, some of them had
been brought in. But you could tell the vibes were
not like, wo woo, She's going to win this by
(11:48):
all the votes, right. It's the same vibe I saw
on the floor when she won the leadership. They're like,
who oh boy, maybe we can survive this, and who
oh boy, maybe we can. This is not you know,
I'm about to become the next premier the province of Ontario.
And so that lack of the lack of swagger, the
lack of organization, the lack of you know, season pros
(12:13):
being able to figure out how to properly position this,
it is something. The fact that she went up on
that stage after the numbers were released, frankly, was just
always going to put her into a box on Sunday afternoon,
especially when they had known for hours what the number was.
(12:34):
So Catherine McGarry, who is now the returning president and
former MPP, does the speech, here's the numbers, and Bonnie
is going to lead us into the next election. Here
she is.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
But uh.
Speaker 5 (12:46):
She comes back up on stage with the family and says, yep,
I'm here. It's not what we wanted, but we're going
to get this done. And then cancels are strung to
Sabrina's point, like all of this and and I'll say,
the collective on the floor, you know, whether it was
MPPs not on stage or collective from a bunch of
(13:08):
people what even Bonnie supporters going what the f Like,
there's no way, there's no way you can actually stay
We'll try to spin this because we're good soldiers, but no, no, uh.
And the collective gasp of of the audacity of trying
to stay on was was just not just not tenable.
(13:31):
And by all reports that we're hearing coming out of
that blood oath ceremony, Uh, she got a very rude
awakening of you know, caucus members allegedly saying they'll they'll
they'll sit as independence rather than let her continue.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Really, I've heard that before, so you know you've used
the term blood oath a couple of times, Sabrina, have
you heard this? Was there really a request for a
blood oath that some people said they would not sit
as Liberals, they would sit as independence.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Seriously, Yeah, that's that's you know, I'd heard the same thing.
The Star had reported it too, and that's you know,
one of the things that that also stood out to me.
MVPs I spoke with who you know, wanted did not
want to go on the record. They basically said, you know,
we can't back Bonnie, especially not unanimously in the way
(14:23):
that they did after the February election that we were
they weren't ready to do that then and there at
the very least, and with the way one MPP put
it to me was that like, imagine, I'm just going
to be going back to my riding every weekend and
all I'm going to hear from liberals is you know,
how dare you endorse Bonnie? Like look at her numbers?
And that that was a nightmare scenario. It was going
(14:43):
to detract from, you know, the work that they were doing.
And interestingly, Caucus actually pushed back on the Stars report,
sort of giving more oxygen to the to the in fighting,
which I think is really just starting right now, and
they put out a statement saying there was no caucus
re bolt.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
You know, we really appreciate Bonnie and everything she's done
for us. She was the spark that our party needed.
But don't forget she's still a leader right.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Now, and there's going to be no interim leader unless
something changes. And I think that that is you know,
potentially very problematic. I mean, first of all, you know,
Bonnie Crombie is still going to be the face of
fundraising for the party. And while she is a you know,
a relatively good fundraiser for the Liberals, I can't imagine
anyone who wants to fork out big bucks to go
(15:30):
mingle with, you know, a leader who's already on her
way out the door. And then also, she doesn't have
a seat in the house, so you know, even though
she'll be there potentially to scrum with reporters and comment
on whatever Doug Ford is up to, she wasn't at
the plowing match.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
The very next day.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
I think, you know, she was probably going to get
a lot of questions about the leadership and what went
down there, and so maybe it was on purpose that
she avoided the media, but she doesn't have a seat
in the House. So you know, John Frasier, who's been
in Room leader twice now, is actually the lead parliamentary
point person for the Liberals already. And so I think
that her staying on until you know, a new permanent
(16:09):
leader is picked, which I'm hearing could be as early
as six months, but really who knows, is also going
to be problematic. So I don't know how long that's
really actually going to last. But I think that's something
that's also creating a lot of tension in the party
that you know is now trying to move on quickly,
maybe from you know, the Bonnie Cromby era.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Kim, does this interim situation make any sense?
Speaker 5 (16:34):
No, it really doesn't, And I'm not I was I
was listening to a country music radio station in Durham
that I listened to in the mornings and and they're like,
and By Cromby has decided not to go to the
International Plowing matche And I started laughing because one she
has made it very known to people sometimes on the
ground at the plowing match her disdain for being there,
(16:57):
and that that's, you know, I wasn't really surprised. And
then it's like, Okay, are you just cashing a paycheck
at this point? And I think the tired the Liberal
Party will be tired of that very quickly. If you're
not raising money, if you're not raising organization, it becomes
an albatross. And I'll give the comparison the New Democrats
(17:20):
got rid of Tom Wilke care federally in twenty fifteen,
and he stayed on for like over a year, and
it was such a drag on the party and on
the leadership. It's like, no, no going now, we've said Gowen.
Now you've said you're going to go away now. It's
not like she was coming off of being immensely popular
and a real vote getter in a real draw. Even
(17:42):
at the leader's dinner in June, she wasn't really the keynote.
You see photos from on stage, and she looked like
she had just come from a community barbecue, not a
big going to a big gala dinner celebrating and raising
money for her and her party. Steph Smike looked much
(18:03):
more like she was the leader in charge than Bonnie did.
So it's all these visual cues. I don't think she
stays on as a Liberal leader I think she's, you know,
looking for the next landing, and politics is hard. Politics
is very hard. They pick apart people like me, people
like Sabrina, people like you, Brian. We pick apart every
(18:23):
aspect of a politician and their families live. I have
no doubt that there will be a moment when she's
writing her book that she'll be happy to be done
with the constant criticisms of which handbag she was using
or not. You know, But and she gave a lot
to this country, this province, the GTA, the City of Mississauga.
(18:48):
She has given a lot. And I will give her
her flowers for the things that she has done and
the way that she has helped build community. But now
it's time to come off the stage. Let somebody else
be interimly or you know. I don't think John Frasier
ever threw out his acting leader cards business cards. So
we'll see.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (19:06):
There'll be lots of people who speculate whether they're in
or out ironically enough, I or maybe not ironically in
the Atlanta's morse, I just got a degree, so I
always have to be careful how I use ironic, you know,
Bonnie and Jeff Lehman were sitting at the back of
a of a posh restaurant in Ottawa during the Association
(19:27):
of Municipalities conference. It's like, what's going on here? This
seems a little like to do it at the restaurant
called the Short Club. And if anybody has been in Ottawa,
you don't go to the shore Club not to be seen.
So the fact that they were they were holding court
in the back and having a head to head raised
(19:47):
some questions. Certainly, Jeff is a name that is talked
about as potentially throwing his hat into the ring. So
lots lots to lots to see. But I don't think
she should stay on as as as leader. We're like
a president new Democrat. Keep keep staying.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
But we're gonna take a break for se messages. We're
gonna be back in just two minutes, which Rina Nanjie
and Kim Wright stay with us. Everyone, we're talking about
what happened. There was two hundred minutes. Actually, I want
to find out if either of you know what happened
during those two hundred minutes and what changed? Was it
the blood oath, was it a caucus revolt, was it
some some advisors? Two hundred minutes stay with us, everyone
(20:26):
back in.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Two stream us live at SAGA nine sixty am dot C.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
A welcome back, and went to the Brian Crimey Radio are.
I'm really interested what happened this past weekend because it's
one of the first Ontario Liberal Party conventions that I
haven't attended in a long time, and I wanted to
(20:56):
be there, but I wasn't there, and so it's interesting
for me to to figure what happened. There were two
hundred minutes supposedly, I understand between the time that she
said that she was going to stay on and the
time that the announcement came out that she was going
to leave. And I'm wondering if any of you know
what happened during those two hundred minutes, because you know,
while you say that there may have been some disagreement
(21:17):
from caucus ahead of time, she sounded like she was
going to stay on, and it was a pretty powerful,
you know, comment and commitment that this isn't what the
final act or something like that that she said from
the stage. And then yet two hundred minutes, which is
not a short time, but it's also not a long time.
It's not minutes, it's it's more than ours. She announced
(21:39):
that she was going to resign. Who persuaded her, Sabrina,
do you know?
Speaker 3 (21:44):
I think it was a combination of everything you pointed out.
I think her you know, not having caucus like immediately
line up behind her and say, yeah, we're in this. Like,
I think she knew that this was going to be
a huge headache for her, and.
Speaker 4 (21:59):
I think it was also her advisors too.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
One thing that I keep hearing, especially now that you
know Bonnie Crombie's on her way out, is that she
never really I guess, took the opportunity to tell people
about her, why she's in it, why she wants to
be leader, why she wants to be premier. You know,
there's a lot of the let Bonnie be Bonnie folks
out there.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
But I think also there's.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Like too many cooks in the kitchen, and it's a
lot of people that were around her. Maybe you can
call it bad advice or you know, false expectations, but
I think that had to do with a lot of it.
And then I think, you know, from what I hear
from people close to her about personally, I think she
is maybe kind of done, was kind of like done
with it, you know, one of her biggest moments of
(22:44):
applause was when she announced that she was going to
be a grandmother. You know that Natasha was expecting, so
congratulations also to you, Brian. And so she seemed really
like happy and genuinely happy about that moment. And so
I think that maybe now for her, she she probably
had some you know, a moment of reflection where she
(23:05):
just maybe thought she was done with all of this,
you know, lukewarm response and not maybe being able to
to hit where she wanted to hit. I mean initially,
you know, months ago, she she had like I guess
suggested she had been sold like a you know, a
bill that that never really came to fruition that a
(23:26):
lot of people made it seem like it was going
to be a lot easier for her to take on
doug Ford, and I think she wasn't fully prepared for that.
The old joke is that if you can't be a
liberal premier, you go and run forr municipal mayor, like
Stephen Delduka. So, I, you know, I don't know what's
next for Bonnie Crombie, but I think for now she's
(23:47):
like happy to be grandma, and you know, take a
take a time out.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Home, Kim. You know, usually there is somebody that finally
gets through, you know, Christian Friedland may have done it
in a in a negative way with with Justin Trudeau,
but but usually there's someone that that actually persuades the
candidate or the leader it's time. Do you think it
was just caucus and the and the and the blood oaths?
Do you think it was a key advisor? What? What?
(24:13):
What do you think?
Speaker 5 (24:14):
I I think it was a combination of things. I
think the you know, reading that room, even her most
ardent supporters didn't see a path for her to actually
staying on. Let let her have her grace of exiting
on her own terms. But uh, they know one I
spoke to, Uh, could I could see a path forward
(24:36):
for her? Yes, there was caucus caucus unrest, although you
can manage that if you're if you know your leadership,
you feel secure in who you are and what you
want to do. I understand the new the new the
new executive of the Liberal Party of Ontario wasn't all
(24:57):
in on her staying on. Were the undercurrents of the
New Leaf Liberals, which every party has a dissenting group
within them that always happens them, plus some other things
all kind of got together. But ultimately, you know, the
leader always gets to decide whether or not they're gonna
(25:19):
stay for five minutes or five more weeks or five
more months or whatever it happens to be. So I
think all of those things come into play. And you know,
you don't spend as much time in politics as Bonnie
Cromby has without being able to go there's I can't,
I can't, I cannot, I cannot pull this boulder through
this mud, up this hill in this way. And I
(25:42):
think she she made the right call. I think most
observers when she canceled her scrum went, all right, maybe
it's gonna be a couple of days, I had said
into a pundance with some pundit friends of mine, this
is gonna be like Liz trust and the trust from
the UK and the lettuce tasks like is she going
to be a longer hair longer than a head of lettuce?
(26:06):
Then all of this. Two hundred minutes later, a friend
of mine said, I didn't even get the lettuce out
of the fridge to start the test of you know,
the lettuce. So all of this to say it was
a weird day. It was darn near shakespearean uh in
in how all of this unfolded over the course of
the weekend. But this was where this was always going
(26:30):
to ultimately, and no one thought Bonnie Crombie would last
to fight in the next general election stake experienced.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
So you're suggesting what that she was Macbeth and and
that Nate Smith was was one of the the son
of the king that wanted to get back at her.
Speaker 5 (26:50):
Look, I think I think Brutus and Julius Caesar was
more subtle than Naderskin Smith was with trying to stab
at Bonnie. Uh But what we what we often seen
in politics is rarely the person who wields the knife
is actually the one who gets to wear the crown next.
And so we'll see what happens with Nate and his
(27:12):
his aspirations. You know, natorsk and Smith has not exactly
endeared himself to Canadians Ontarians definitely not liberals in his
whining that he didn't get a cabinet post in the
in the new Kearney government.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (27:30):
The I'm going to spend time with my family and
then not. You actually saw this week with Christian Freeland's resignation.
There was a line in there of I'm not going
to spend time with my family, which felt like a
job at Naderskin Smith and Sean Frasier and other liberals
who had said they weren't going to run because they
(27:51):
want to spend time with their family and oops, pulling
numbers are better. I'm coming back. So I think there's
all sorts of all sorts of things, all sorts of challenges.
You know, we can we'll talk about what does a
liberal leadership campaign look like and start to you know,
look at early early horse races. But I think Nate's
(28:12):
got to have got to start showing a little a
little humility and a little less temper tantrum than he
has in the political atmosphere.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
We're gonna take a break for some messages and come
back in just two minutes with Kim Right, and I'm
gonna I'm gonna ask you, Kim, you know what could
have done differently? Are there lessons from this process? Because
I think that it's an interesting you know, in any
kind of of a of a political history, a career fight,
et cetera, there's lessons to be learned. And so I'm
(28:42):
gonna ask you about that. Stay with us. Everyone back
in two minutes.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
No Radio, No Problem stream is live on Sagay nine
sixty am dot cl.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Welcome back everyone to the Brian Cromby Radio Hour. I'm
chatting tonight with Kim Wright about the Liberal leadership review
this past weekend at the Liberal convention where Bonnie Crombie
did not get more than fifty seven percent of the voter.
She got the fifty seven percent of the vote, and
initially that was deemed that was satisfactory by her, But
(29:25):
it seems that other people thought differently, and two hundred
minutes later she resigned or indicated that she would resign
as a Liberal leader when a new Liberal leader was elected. Kim,
I want to ask you. You're you know, you're a
very experienced political activist, communicator, a strategist, et cetera. I
want to go through a couple of issues and ask
(29:46):
you if those are lessons learned. Patrick Brown, the mayor
of Brampton, who was the mayor of the neighboring city
in Peel, honest seemed to have a vendetta to take
down his his neighboring mayor. His mother in law was
the candidate they had had, you know, an issue about
(30:09):
some people called it the divorce appeal. Uh and uh
and and obviously some real strong passionate debates about whether
that made sense and how taxes and and and reserves,
et cetera should be split up. Was that like, you know,
if she had won that, that that that Mississauga Cooksville seat,
(30:30):
if she hadn't created that that that that vision with
Patrick Brown, would have things been different?
Speaker 5 (30:37):
Well, I think, you know, first of all, the on again,
off again peel divorce feels a lot like Elizabeth Taylor
and Richard Burton. And I don't know where this is
ultimately going to end, but parking all of that, Patrick
is a fierce competitor, and Patrick is a fierce conservative
(30:58):
who you know, look his his his runs for a
premier or not done by any stretch to the imagination,
whether it's you know, five years, ten years, whenever Premier
Forge hangs them up, but will certainly likely to see
a Patrick Brown candidacy again under the PC party banner.
(31:20):
They're dislike of each other. I don't know what started that,
but Patrick saw this as an opportunity to be the
organizer that he has always seen himself to be and
I know the person, the amazing woman who ran the
PC party campaign in missus saul Good Cooksville. She's a
(31:43):
hell of a good strategist and a hell of a
good campaigner. They had lots of resources, and that was
that was that was true all the way through. I
think there are lots of things that you know. First
of all, as he said earlier, not have not picking
her seat, whether it was going to be Mississauga, Cooksville
or some other place in Mississauga. Not pointing that out
(32:07):
well in advance of the campaign definitely hurt her, and
especially when you have the comparison of you know, Bonnie
probably won't win a seat, similar to Stephen del Duca
wasn't going to win his seat in Vaughan. And then
you have mart Styles, the NDP leader who won Davenport
by some fourteen thousand votes. Right like, the electability question
(32:29):
became Franton center, the Bonnie versus Patrick bloodfeud, the mother
in law again Shakespearean almost but ultimately not picking a
seat early and claiming that as her seat really put
her on the back foot all the way through the campaign.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
I think there's a lesson about you know, making friends
in politics even oh absolutely in regards to friends in
other parties and the fact that you know that clearly
was not a friendship. And you know, I think it
goes farther in regards to Carolyn Parrish, your successor as
mayor of Mississauga, who some people thought would come out
and actively support the candidacy and did not, and some
(33:12):
councilor members, et cetera. So you know that the council
didn't appear to be There were some exceptions, of course
liberal activists that were on city council, but but you
didn't have that that kind of support from the neighboring
mayor and the neighboring council members that one would have expected.
Let's talk about Milton.
Speaker 5 (33:33):
No, but not at all. But that's it's a it's
a valuable point Brian politics. Well, we often have have
our teams. I can say for my own in my
own life. You know, my husband's a conservative. I have
friends in liberal liberal Land, Conservative Land and New Democrat Land.
I relish those those relationships, those friendships, those conversations, those
(33:57):
people who I know, if I ever i'd put my
name on a ballot, Well, I am not their brand
necessarily of party and flavor, they would be there for me.
I didn't see that during the provincial election. I didn't
see lots of people who across party lines or even
(34:17):
within party lines, within Liberal land coming up and wrapping
themselves around Bonnie's leadership. And that became a question mark too.
If the people who know you, the people who have
known you and fought alongside you for years, built things,
built community, aren't showing up with you, what does that say?
(34:37):
And there were a lot of times this weekend that
she was not surrounded by a failings of friends and folks,
but rather with family, and that gave certainly an impression
as well.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
I was intrigued that yesterday I saw you post I
think a picture with a Conservative that I've had on
my show at the plowing match. You know, I guess
that's true that you've got some friends in conservatble Lend
even out at plant plowing matches. And I think I've
seen you out at that stampede doing similar kinds of things.
Speaker 5 (35:09):
Absolutely, there's a photo with me and Danielle Smith. Goodness
knows how that happened. And but you know, you have
to be able to find find friends across the spectrum
and frankly the Premier does that quite well. We had
seen him in his first campaign campaigning with Hail Machallian.
We have seen him, you know, campaigning with Christian Freeland.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Well, and I got late night drinks in the cottage
with the premiram exactly.
Speaker 5 (35:34):
You know, I don't think it's going to get him
a tunnel, but you know it's good he has these drinks.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
But you know you're comment about sort of people from
another party. I want to ask you about that as well,
because you know it goes too far almost at some
point in times. Let me ask you about this. So
doug Ford had some very nasty personal attacks against her
and then you know, the day before the election, he
(36:00):
actually showed up in her riding at the Polish church.
She's Polish and so it was like really a you know,
I don't know what you call it, a finger or
something like that to someone to come to their riding
and not just in their writing, but to go to
the big Polish church in their riding, which is her ethnicity.
There seemed to be an animosity there that sort of
(36:20):
went beyond what would be sort of normal normal competitiveness
and that is that just because they were two leaders,
or is that because she took a very antagonistic manner
toward toward Ford that became at times, I think a
little personal. And you saw a little bit of that
in the in the debates. What's your sense because Ford
really went after her and went after her big.
Speaker 5 (36:42):
Yeah, Ford does that? Right. You look at the polling,
you look at the data, and you go, all right,
how can I make sure that that potentially marginal win.
And we saw this where you know, some of the
some of the some of the seats were held by
you know, a couple of votes, not hundreds of votes.
So you go in there and you make the big swings.
(37:02):
You know, we saw this in the twenty the Hillary
Clinton versus Donald Trump, you know, presidential where he went
into what should have been key democratic areas. You go in,
you take your swing, and you don't leave anything behind.
Does it feel like it's a personal attack?
Speaker 4 (37:21):
Yep?
Speaker 5 (37:21):
For the same reason. In campaign sometimes we make sure
that the you know, we put we make sure there's
a giant sign outside of the front door of your competitor,
right like you just these are things we do in politics.
Did it feel personal? Probably was it a bit personal, yeah,
but it was also how do you win those other
(37:43):
seats across the province by throwing those those big sticks
on the ground. And look at the premier and every
campaign we do this, we go, we do we do
stuff in the premier's riding where we'll do things in
other folks writing, and mss Crowby had no compunction about
not doing that to mart Styles and and the NDP
(38:07):
going right into holding things in in in their writings too,
like it's politics. We can be mad about it, we
can think that feels like dirty pool, but this is
just politics. And if you want to have the big
the big chair, you gotta go everywhere.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
I don't know, I don't know if I agree that.
I think that that that you got to create friends,
as we talked about and uh. And I think that
that the Patrick Brown animosity was one of the fatal flaws.
And I think that the fact that there appeared to
be even more than just good competitiveness but actual some
you know, desire to really harm went beyond sort of
(38:43):
the competitiveness, and it ended up being I think fatal
because she ended up losing that that writing, and I
think things would have been different if she had won
in Cooksville, and you know, we could probably talk about
whether they should have spent more time in Cooksville and
whether there should have been more of a you know,
a central party campaign to make sure that she went Cooksville.
So let me come to Milton if I could, because
(39:05):
you know, in my life it's often been that line about,
you know, the perfect is the enemy the good. And
Milton wasn't a slam dunk. And just to remind everyone,
there was a by election in Milton. Milton is just
beside Mississauga, so it's not Mississauga. And clearly I think
she would have preferred to have run in Mississauga. But
there was a by election in Milton. There wasn't going
to be a by election it would appear in Mississauga.
(39:27):
And so she had a chance and it was winnable,
and I think that she should have taken that chance.
And maybe if she had lost, it would have been
a real problem, but you could explain it away as
not being Mississauga. She didn't take the chance, she didn't run.
I think she should have. What do you think, Kim,
was that a fatal flaw and sort of her.
Speaker 5 (39:47):
It certainly didn't help coming off of the lackluster leadership.
The third ballot fifty three percent, we're supposed to be
a coronation, and then she didn't get the bounce and
the polling coming off of that leadership, and usually there's
a bit of there's usually a bit of a bounce.
(40:08):
So there was no Bonnie bounce. There was no Bonnie
bounce for her or the party. And I think there
was a real reticence internally in liberal land to well,
we've got a new leader. Yes she needs a seat,
but we don't want her to lose because I'm gonna
have to go through all of the machinations of a
leadership review all over again, because there would have been
(40:30):
calls for her head right her entire, Her entire point
of view of why to elect her leader was I'm
the one who can win. Am I have this glowing resume?
I can win? And there was a lot of concern.
You know, there was also talk about her running in Belleville.
I actually think that the Bay of Quinty riding when
(40:51):
Todd Smith stepped down, I actually think that that was
probably more than the Milton Race the Bay of Quinty
and actually would have been I would think the easiest
path to victory for her in that in those by
elections she had an opportunity for But I think her
team was just just skittish. And if you're skittish about
(41:14):
these races, if you're skittish about your own leader and
the and and their leadership aspirations, that's going to continue
to to shroud your your campaigns.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
One of the other things that you know, I wonder
about is that she had said, and the you know
comment was repeated numerous times, that it was a snap election.
I don't think it was a snap election. It was not.
Speaker 5 (41:38):
Sorry, I get very frustrated whenever I talks about a
snap elition. Was it an early election, yes, but by
by snap election. It's like you know that adage about,
you know, if your dog runs away in the prairies,
you can see it still running three days later. That's
what this election was was. You know, there had been
pretty significant rumors around Queen's Park and in other places.
(42:03):
Get ready, this is coming. The premiere telegraphed it, his
campaign team telegraphed it, so you know, it might not
have been ideal, and I thought we all had a
gentle person's agreement never to have a campaign ever again
in the snow after that two thousand and five, two
thousand and six federal election where it went over the
(42:24):
Christmas break. But you know, here we were. But it
wasn't a snap election. It was just an election people
didn't hoped wouldn't come as.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
So, should the Liberal Party have been better organized with
more candidates nominated? Shouldn't there have been more preparation for
this early election call that was not a snap because
almost everyone knew it was coming.
Speaker 5 (42:46):
Yeah, And I think that's a that's a valid criticism,
you'll and I think one of the challenges we saw
in the campaign was her continuing for the first two
two and a half weeks of the campaign talking about
it being a snap election and a waste of taxpayer dollars. Look,
elections are never in a democracy. Elections are never a
(43:07):
waste campaign of taxpayer dollars. They are the price we
pay for democracy, whether it was going to be then
or six months from now, a year from now, whatever
would happened to be. But election campaigns are the price
we pay for democracy. So I think that that never
resonated with either her voters or her universe of voters,
(43:28):
and she's stuck with that line for far too long.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
We're going to take a final break and come back
with a couple of comments. If we could from Kim
about the upcoming NDP vote and if there's some lessons learned.
I think you said something about we can't have the
film Titanic plane in one of the breakout rooms. Stay
with us, everyone back in two.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Minutes stream us live at SAGA nine am CA.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
Welcome back everyone to the Brian Crime Radio. I've got
Kim Wright of Wright Strategies. She's an INDP activist. She
was an observer at the Liberal of Leadership Review convention
this past weekend and I followed your tweets and your
posts with interest as you commented on a lot of
the things that were going on. What, if anything, do
you think the NDP have learned from this, because I
(44:28):
understand the NDP have got the same process coming up
this weekend. Do you think this is going to mean
that someone announces from the stage it's got to be
sixty six point six percent or do you think that
actually it's going to be like something with an eight
to start with? You know, what's your sense? Are there
any learnings from this last weekend that the NDP is
going to take to heart.
Speaker 5 (44:48):
Well, absolutely, and that's always the case. So every year,
every convention the New Democrats have, there is always an
automatic leadership review. That's just standard process for us. So
it's not we don't see this as some sort of
civil war breaking out. And in every party there's always
going to be a sub section that just votes against
(45:12):
every leader and that's okay. This is the NDP's policy
convention in Niagara falls this coming weekend. But it's also
a chance for mart Styles and the NDP. It was
already a chance for them to say, here's what we learned,
here's what we're seeing, but more importantly, here's that path
to victory in twenty twenty six to get Marrett Styles
(45:34):
to become Premier Marret Styles, and here's what the caucus
is doing, and here's what those potential future cabinet ministers
start to look like and do. And I think that
that is an important conversation that Marrett who is now
who continues to be the leader of the official opposition.
The New Democrats have been the second place for the
last three elections and have a lot of really great
(45:57):
caucus members and conversations to build upon the opening that
we've now also been given. With the Liberals once again
in in disarray, and given what we talked about for
the last hour, this is an opportunity for people to
see Marret styles as that you know, with her swagger,
(46:17):
with her sparkle, with her gravitask, with that you know,
really great Newfoundlander sensibility that that she brings to the
table and showcase who she is without there being a
crowded other stage. This is just a really great showcase
of mart and the and the and the team and
the potential future cabinet. So I'm excited about that. I'm
(46:39):
excited to see some folks I only saw during the
campaign and beyond uh, and to start talking about some
deep policy things but lessons to be learned. Make sure
that you can count the votes, uh, and that in
your what you were referenced about about Titanic was there
was a hospitality suite and given that it was Tiff,
(47:01):
they were showing you know, movie clips, and it was
movie themed and they were literally giving out branded popcorn
and it said Liberals and boxes of the popcorn. And
so I was joking about making eating literal and figurative popcorn,
but they were showing a clip of various movies, including Titanic,
which felt a little I guess on brand for the
rest of the weekend of how it went, but not
(47:22):
exactly the image I would have wanted to portray if
I were in liberal land.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
Is anyone checking the agenda to make sure that to
myrit Style's speeches before the voting nads.
Speaker 5 (47:33):
Yes, Yes, Marrett is a wonderful speaker. She connects with people.
One of the great things about Marrett is that she
has actually done those conversations across the world. But I
first met marat when she was when she was a
researcher for the party. She has done every job, whether
it's been you know, a researcher, staffer, president of the
(47:55):
Federal Party, and then became, you know, a little elected official.
So she's got deep roots in the NDP, but also
deep roots across the country and with folks across the
political spectrum. So I think you're going to see a
lot more of of her and her gravitas and her
sparkle as we as we go forward.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
Last question, what do you think the number is going
to start with? What number?
Speaker 5 (48:18):
Sure as hell I'm going to start with a five,
so you know we'll go from there. But no, I'm
I'm excited about this. But you know, to anybody for
future aspirations. I apparently Prince Charles now King Charles once
asked Joe Clark why sixty seven percent? Like why did
you set that number? And it really just became the
(48:41):
head scratcher. But look, if two thirds of your party
I aren't keen on where you're at, you should be
looking for a new job.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
Kim right, thanks so much for Jonas. You really appreciate it,
and I really appreciated your tweets and your social media
posting during the weekend. I think that you gave a
flavor for what was going on in the weekend convention
that is very helpful to people. Was very helpful to me.
So thanks so much.
Speaker 5 (49:06):
You're very welcome. And for for liberals out there who
aren't sure where their progressive home is, I truly invite
you to look at mart Styles and the n DP.
There they are a home for you.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
That's our show for tonight, everybody, thank you for joining.
I guess my final thought is there are some lessons
to learn, you know, I think that creating that that
that that enemy or that vindictive situation with with Patrick Brown,
the mayor of the neighboring city, was a mistake. I
think not running in Milton and or you know, eastern Ontario,
(49:41):
as Kim mentioned, you know, it wouldn't have been the
perfect scenario, but it was a pretty good scenario. And
I think you've got to take risks, and I think
he got to be in the legislature or the House
of Commons, and not being in the legislature of the
House of Commons, I think was was a fatal flaw.
I think, you know, the speech timing that Kim talked
about was probably an issue counting votes and making sure
The fact that you had what was it, four hundred
(50:02):
delegates that didn't show up and that you had to
move alternate delegates into positions clearly messed up. But whatever
vote counting you might have had, and so therefore counting
not just the delegate votes but the alternate votes is key.
And then you know, I think back to you know,
Obama bringing Hillary Clinton into his cabinet. You think about
(50:23):
a team of rivals. That great book about Lincoln, there's
something about not reaching out to your rivals and including
them in the tent and making sure that they're not
going to be dissidents for a long period of time.
I think in politics, like in business, like in lots
of things in life, you got to make some friends,
and that's critically important. And friends even with people that
(50:45):
have got very different points of view. And if someone
opposes you and they're in your company or in your
tent and your party, got to still reach out to
them and try to make a common cause. Anyway, I
think there are some lessons that need to be known here.
Thanks for joining me, everybody that's a show up for
Thank
Speaker 1 (51:01):
Kidding stream us live at SAGA nine sixty am dot
C a m.
The views expressed in the following program are those of
the participants and do not necessarily reflect the views of
SAGA nine sixty am or its management.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the Brian Crombie Radio Hour.
This weekend was the Tailor Liberal Party's convention and they
had a leadership review, and for some strange reason, I'm
really interested and intrigued in what happened, and so therefore
I've got Sabrina n Angie, who is a journalist and
the founder of the Queen's Park Observer with us today.
She says that she's known as a great journalist but
(00:38):
also someone that knows a lot of gossip, and so
it'll be interesting to see what she's got to say.
And Kim Wright from a communications company called I Think
What Rite Communications and right Strategies, Right Strategies, I apologize,
And she's known for her strategies, her public relations, her communications,
and her political activism with the New Democratic Party. And
she was texting me a couple of comments of what
(00:59):
was going on this weekend while it was in action.
And so I've got some interesting guests for you to
hear from today. So Rita, why don't we start with you.
You know, what do you think what happened? Like, I
thought that what I had heard, she was going in.
She thought she had seventy percent, and then it was
sixty one percent, and then it was fifty seven percent,
and then she was going to stay and then she
was going to leave, and like, tell me what what
(01:21):
you think happened?
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Yeah, I mean I think they're like where to begin, right,
I think you're right that, you know, Bonnie Cromby had
a higher number in her head. What I had heard
was that that's, you know, what her strategists told her,
and specifically, you know, insiders called out Alexis Slovine and
Tom Allison, you know, veteran liberal strategists specifically, and they
(01:44):
said that, you know, her data wasn't the best.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
When it came to delegates. There were, you know, some.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Hundreds of last minute dropouts, which meant other delegates were
being promoted. So obviously, at the end of the day,
it did not go the way Bonnie Crombie wanted it to.
I mean, technically she got in enough to stay on.
You only need fifty percent plus one. She got fifty
seven percent. The unofficial cut off in Canadian politics tends
to be sixty six percent, but fifty.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
Seven percent is pretty pretty low.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
It's a pretty measly number, and if you think about it,
that's like, you know, roughly half of the party saying
that we want to have a leadership review and we
want someone else in there. And so I think the
most surprising thing to me was that, initially after the
vote results were announced, you know, eventually announced because there
were delays on delays, you know, Bonnie Crombie addressed the crowd. Notably,
(02:37):
Caucus was not on stage with her. That was kind
of one of the biggest tells that there was some
you know, drama, a bit of a rift happening behind
the scenes, is that she first stayed on first she said,
you know, this isn't the number I wanted, but I'm
still here. And then, you know, within hours, maybe even less,
I think she had put out a statement saying she
was going to resign. She canceled her press conference that
(03:00):
was planned with reporters for after and even the next day,
you know, during the plowing match, which is obviously a
very big to do in Ontario politics. When it comes
to like, you know, the rural parts of Ontario, body
Crombie wasn't there, and one of her MPPs sort of
took the lead and gave the big speeches and.
Speaker 5 (03:15):
All of that.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
So, I I mean there was a lot of talk
about what was going on because I think her staying
on at first, a lot of people told me, you know,
this is really untenable. I said to you know, a
high profile you know, organizer in the Liberal Party, Like
what you think it's maybe she tries to hang on
(03:36):
for a year and then eventually she has to back off,
and they're like, no, think a week and then like
you know, within minutes, she was gone.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
And so I think a lot of people just said
it was untenable.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
And now, you know, rumors abound about who wants to
throw their hat in the race for a leader now.
But I think one of the other interesting things was
the so called caucus revolt that the Star used those words,
and so that there was a caucus revolt behind the scenes.
You know, Bonnie Crombie would not get support or at
least unanimous support from the caucus, and so I think
(04:08):
that's probably the moment where she saw the writing was
on the wall and could not continue in that role.
So yeah, I mean, I do think that she left
the party better off than the way she found it.
They've got recognized status, they got a bigger chunk of
the popular vote. But at the end of the day,
you know, Bonnie Cromby didn't win her seat. She did
not really meet expectations. And so now, for the third
(04:29):
time since twenty twenty, you know, the Liberals are again
searching for a savior.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
To help get them out of the penalty box in Ontario.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Kim, what do you think what happened?
Speaker 5 (04:40):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (04:41):
Math?
Speaker 5 (04:42):
Fundamentally, Math, I mean Bonnie Cromby started the convention during
a scrum where she said the numbers are arbitrary. Well,
I've been a political hack for thirty five years and
the numbers and leadership races are not arbitrary. That's, you know,
whatever you might think. I was talking to a number
of folks like me in the political world, but on
(05:05):
the liberal camp, and they said their talking point was
anything more than she got into leadership was to be
seen as growth, which was the most absurd thing I'd
ever heard. Like it was supposed to be the Crombie coronation.
In that leadership, she should have gotten Mark Kearney esque numbers,
and she didn't. It was a third ballot fifty three percent.
(05:26):
So I'm like, so fifty four is okay, fifty five
fifty Like never in my wildest fever dream, And did
I expect fifty seven percent? And look, the reality is
any number that starts with a five in a leadership review,
you're done. Whether it's in that moment or a couple
of minutes afterwards, you are done. And so we saw that.
(05:50):
I you know, I was on the ground as an
observer of all that was going on and having lots
of conversations with folks. Was definitely not with their. Lots
of people that were wearing caucus was not with her. No,
caucus was not not not unanimously and the blood oath
that was being required of them on Sunday before before
(06:14):
she before the results came out, there was There was
absolutely in the room as it's being reported, but as
I've been hearing, absolutely not. Look you start going back
to the campaign again, the Crombie coronation didn't happen in
the leadership. It was a third ballot, squeak it out victory.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
You know.
Speaker 5 (06:35):
Once there was the famous Christmas card that went out
from the Crombie family that had her sitting on a
fake gold throne. I made a lot of commentary about
that when she didn't win, we didn't win the leadership,
that this is not a real victory and not a
real crown. Then she scrambled to find a seat to
(06:55):
run in, leading into the last election Mississauga, where she
has you know, rained quote unquote for quite some time
after being handed the mantle from Hazel mccallian, no one
understood why she didn't just automatically say, you know, babe,
Ruth calling your shots, I'm running in Mississauga X. And
it was the last possible moment, which led observers like
(07:18):
myself to comment, if you can't win your hometown, if
you can't win the people who know you, who have blood,
sweat and tears with you, who voted for you in
the past, if you were dodgy about running there, you've
got bigger, fundamental problems. Then there was the bus that
had that had errors on it. If you're going to
(07:39):
run on a single issue campaign, get the numbers right.
There was a photo that was taken of Bonnie and
the launch of that bus that had the word last
right behind her head. I don't know if that was foreshadowing.
Her tourist staff just didn't think about these things. But
all of these things continued. Then we get to this
week and four robocalls before before the convention even started.
(08:05):
They had no g TV members. You had caucus members
not showing up. You had not showing up to the convention,
which is a pretty if your leader is on the line,
it's a command performance. So that there were some that
didn't show up is certainly problematic. But also let's be
very clear, it's not that she didn't win her seat
(08:27):
in the last election. She never had a seat to
start with. There were many opportunities and by elections she
didn't have a seat, She didn't get a seat, and
there was no plan on the foreseeable future to get
her in the House as an official person. And then
the most shocking of all to me when I was
looking at the agenda of this convention was her keynote
(08:49):
address to sway delegates, to move delegates, to get the
hearts and minds behind her, was scheduled for after the vote. Now,
that's this ridiculous thing on levels, Like most people will
want to like, here, let me tell you why I
am awesome and I should stay on and here's my
path to victory to do that after says to me
that her staff already knew that every time she opened
(09:13):
her mouth to give a keynote speech, she lost points.
We saw this in the run up to the election.
I'm not trying to be caddy or churlish in any
of this. That's just the reality of if you're putting
your keynote speech after the ballot is closed, it means
you're not really good at it. What we saw from
the alternates who got pumped up after that speech, they
(09:34):
were three to one against Bonnie. And how do you
know that's that is what is being reported is that
it was a three to one. The GOOTV numbers were
a three to one vote against Bonnie, and they'll they'll
be able to see that in the entrails. Here's the
alternates that voted. If it's you know, then then the
numbers of the numbers. So, as I said at the start,
(09:57):
math math got in the way of Bonnie.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Unbelievable.
Speaker 5 (10:02):
So yeah, it was shocking all the way through.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Sabrina. What do you think was her decision? You know,
some people think not to run in Milton where there
was a by election one of the fatal flaws.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Yeah, I mean, I guess like hindsight is twenty twenty, right,
But obviously, you know, I don't think that there was
really a chance for Bonnie Cromby to show the Liberal
you know party faithful that she can run somewhere and
win something. And Milton, you know, she probably had a
pretty good shot there. And to Kim's point, you know,
even the Liberal Party's own campaign post mortem said that
(10:36):
the fact that she was waffling and took a very
long time to decide which Mississauga riding she was actually
going to run in hurt not only herself but also
the other candidates. Like she didn't win her seat, she
didn't gain a seat, you know, because she didn't have
one to lose, but.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
You know, they didn't win any Mississauga seats.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
And so for the Liberals to you know, not get
even a single spot there and it all to be PC,
I think was you know, probably arguably one of her
biggest sins according to like a lot of Liberals that I.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
That I spoke with.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
So, Kim, this sounds like, you know, it was a
bunch of problems for a long time. Do you think
that her her organizers didn't anticipate this. They they didn't
prepare her for it. You know, what's what's your sense
of things?
Speaker 5 (11:25):
You know, I don't know if it was they were
overconfident and remarkably ill prepared for how gootv and voting
actually works. But there's some season pros in there that
some of them had been sidelines, some of them had
been brought in. But you could tell the vibes were
not like, wo woo, She's going to win this by
(11:48):
all the votes, right. It's the same vibe I saw
on the floor when she won the leadership. They're like,
who oh boy, maybe we can survive this, and who
oh boy, maybe we can. This is not you know,
I'm about to become the next premier the province of Ontario.
And so that lack of the lack of swagger, the
lack of organization, the lack of you know, season pros
(12:13):
being able to figure out how to properly position this,
it is something. The fact that she went up on
that stage after the numbers were released, frankly, was just
always going to put her into a box on Sunday afternoon,
especially when they had known for hours what the number was.
(12:34):
So Catherine McGarry, who is now the returning president and
former MPP, does the speech, here's the numbers, and Bonnie
is going to lead us into the next election. Here
she is.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
But uh.
Speaker 5 (12:46):
She comes back up on stage with the family and says, yep,
I'm here. It's not what we wanted, but we're going
to get this done. And then cancels are strung to
Sabrina's point, like all of this and and I'll say,
the collective on the floor, you know, whether it was
MPPs not on stage or collective from a bunch of
(13:08):
people what even Bonnie supporters going what the f Like,
there's no way, there's no way you can actually stay
We'll try to spin this because we're good soldiers, but no, no, uh.
And the collective gasp of of the audacity of trying
to stay on was was just not just not tenable.
(13:31):
And by all reports that we're hearing coming out of
that blood oath ceremony, Uh, she got a very rude
awakening of you know, caucus members allegedly saying they'll they'll
they'll sit as independence rather than let her continue.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Really, I've heard that before, so you know you've used
the term blood oath a couple of times, Sabrina, have
you heard this? Was there really a request for a
blood oath that some people said they would not sit
as Liberals, they would sit as independence.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Seriously, Yeah, that's that's you know, I'd heard the same thing.
The Star had reported it too, and that's you know,
one of the things that that also stood out to me.
MVPs I spoke with who you know, wanted did not
want to go on the record. They basically said, you know,
we can't back Bonnie, especially not unanimously in the way
(14:23):
that they did after the February election that we were
they weren't ready to do that then and there at
the very least, and with the way one MPP put
it to me was that like, imagine, I'm just going
to be going back to my riding every weekend and
all I'm going to hear from liberals is you know,
how dare you endorse Bonnie? Like look at her numbers?
And that that was a nightmare scenario. It was going
(14:43):
to detract from, you know, the work that they were doing.
And interestingly, Caucus actually pushed back on the Stars report,
sort of giving more oxygen to the to the in fighting,
which I think is really just starting right now, and
they put out a statement saying there was no caucus
re bolt.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
You know, we really appreciate Bonnie and everything she's done
for us. She was the spark that our party needed.
But don't forget she's still a leader right.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Now, and there's going to be no interim leader unless
something changes. And I think that that is you know,
potentially very problematic. I mean, first of all, you know,
Bonnie Crombie is still going to be the face of
fundraising for the party. And while she is a you know,
a relatively good fundraiser for the Liberals, I can't imagine
anyone who wants to fork out big bucks to go
(15:30):
mingle with, you know, a leader who's already on her
way out the door. And then also, she doesn't have
a seat in the house, so you know, even though
she'll be there potentially to scrum with reporters and comment
on whatever Doug Ford is up to, she wasn't at
the plowing match.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
The very next day.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
I think, you know, she was probably going to get
a lot of questions about the leadership and what went
down there, and so maybe it was on purpose that
she avoided the media, but she doesn't have a seat
in the House. So you know, John Frasier, who's been
in Room leader twice now, is actually the lead parliamentary
point person for the Liberals already. And so I think
that her staying on until you know, a new permanent
(16:09):
leader is picked, which I'm hearing could be as early
as six months, but really who knows, is also going
to be problematic. So I don't know how long that's
really actually going to last. But I think that's something
that's also creating a lot of tension in the party
that you know is now trying to move on quickly,
maybe from you know, the Bonnie Cromby era.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Kim, does this interim situation make any sense?
Speaker 5 (16:34):
No, it really doesn't, And I'm not I was I
was listening to a country music radio station in Durham
that I listened to in the mornings and and they're like,
and By Cromby has decided not to go to the
International Plowing matche And I started laughing because one she
has made it very known to people sometimes on the
ground at the plowing match her disdain for being there,
(16:57):
and that that's, you know, I wasn't really surprised. And
then it's like, Okay, are you just cashing a paycheck
at this point? And I think the tired the Liberal
Party will be tired of that very quickly. If you're
not raising money, if you're not raising organization, it becomes
an albatross. And I'll give the comparison the New Democrats
(17:20):
got rid of Tom Wilke care federally in twenty fifteen,
and he stayed on for like over a year, and
it was such a drag on the party and on
the leadership. It's like, no, no going now, we've said Gowen.
Now you've said you're going to go away now. It's
not like she was coming off of being immensely popular
and a real vote getter in a real draw. Even
(17:42):
at the leader's dinner in June, she wasn't really the keynote.
You see photos from on stage, and she looked like
she had just come from a community barbecue, not a
big going to a big gala dinner celebrating and raising
money for her and her party. Steph Smike looked much
(18:03):
more like she was the leader in charge than Bonnie did.
So it's all these visual cues. I don't think she
stays on as a Liberal leader I think she's, you know,
looking for the next landing, and politics is hard. Politics
is very hard. They pick apart people like me, people
like Sabrina, people like you, Brian. We pick apart every
(18:23):
aspect of a politician and their families live. I have
no doubt that there will be a moment when she's
writing her book that she'll be happy to be done
with the constant criticisms of which handbag she was using
or not. You know, But and she gave a lot
to this country, this province, the GTA, the City of Mississauga.
(18:48):
She has given a lot. And I will give her
her flowers for the things that she has done and
the way that she has helped build community. But now
it's time to come off the stage. Let somebody else
be interimly or you know. I don't think John Frasier
ever threw out his acting leader cards business cards. So
we'll see.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (19:06):
There'll be lots of people who speculate whether they're in
or out ironically enough, I or maybe not ironically in
the Atlanta's morse, I just got a degree, so I
always have to be careful how I use ironic, you know,
Bonnie and Jeff Lehman were sitting at the back of
a of a posh restaurant in Ottawa during the Association
(19:27):
of Municipalities conference. It's like, what's going on here? This
seems a little like to do it at the restaurant
called the Short Club. And if anybody has been in Ottawa,
you don't go to the shore Club not to be seen.
So the fact that they were they were holding court
in the back and having a head to head raised
(19:47):
some questions. Certainly, Jeff is a name that is talked
about as potentially throwing his hat into the ring. So
lots lots to lots to see. But I don't think
she should stay on as as as leader. We're like
a president new Democrat. Keep keep staying.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
But we're gonna take a break for se messages. We're
gonna be back in just two minutes, which Rina Nanjie
and Kim Wright stay with us. Everyone, we're talking about
what happened. There was two hundred minutes. Actually, I want
to find out if either of you know what happened
during those two hundred minutes and what changed? Was it
the blood oath, was it a caucus revolt, was it
some some advisors? Two hundred minutes stay with us, everyone
(20:26):
back in.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Two stream us live at SAGA nine sixty am dot C.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
A welcome back, and went to the Brian Crimey Radio are.
I'm really interested what happened this past weekend because it's
one of the first Ontario Liberal Party conventions that I
haven't attended in a long time, and I wanted to
(20:56):
be there, but I wasn't there, and so it's interesting
for me to to figure what happened. There were two
hundred minutes supposedly, I understand between the time that she
said that she was going to stay on and the
time that the announcement came out that she was going
to leave. And I'm wondering if any of you know
what happened during those two hundred minutes, because you know,
while you say that there may have been some disagreement
(21:17):
from caucus ahead of time, she sounded like she was
going to stay on, and it was a pretty powerful,
you know, comment and commitment that this isn't what the
final act or something like that that she said from
the stage. And then yet two hundred minutes, which is
not a short time, but it's also not a long time.
It's not minutes, it's it's more than ours. She announced
(21:39):
that she was going to resign. Who persuaded her, Sabrina,
do you know?
Speaker 3 (21:44):
I think it was a combination of everything you pointed out.
I think her you know, not having caucus like immediately
line up behind her and say, yeah, we're in this. Like,
I think she knew that this was going to be
a huge headache for her, and.
Speaker 4 (21:59):
I think it was also her advisors too.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
One thing that I keep hearing, especially now that you
know Bonnie Crombie's on her way out, is that she
never really I guess, took the opportunity to tell people
about her, why she's in it, why she wants to
be leader, why she wants to be premier. You know,
there's a lot of the let Bonnie be Bonnie folks
out there.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
But I think also there's.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Like too many cooks in the kitchen, and it's a
lot of people that were around her. Maybe you can
call it bad advice or you know, false expectations, but
I think that had to do with a lot of it.
And then I think, you know, from what I hear
from people close to her about personally, I think she
is maybe kind of done, was kind of like done
with it, you know, one of her biggest moments of
(22:44):
applause was when she announced that she was going to
be a grandmother. You know that Natasha was expecting, so
congratulations also to you, Brian. And so she seemed really
like happy and genuinely happy about that moment. And so
I think that maybe now for her, she she probably
had some you know, a moment of reflection where she
(23:05):
just maybe thought she was done with all of this,
you know, lukewarm response and not maybe being able to
to hit where she wanted to hit. I mean initially,
you know, months ago, she she had like I guess
suggested she had been sold like a you know, a
bill that that never really came to fruition that a
(23:26):
lot of people made it seem like it was going
to be a lot easier for her to take on
doug Ford, and I think she wasn't fully prepared for that.
The old joke is that if you can't be a
liberal premier, you go and run forr municipal mayor, like
Stephen Delduka. So, I, you know, I don't know what's
next for Bonnie Crombie, but I think for now she's
(23:47):
like happy to be grandma, and you know, take a
take a time out.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Home, Kim. You know, usually there is somebody that finally
gets through, you know, Christian Friedland may have done it
in a in a negative way with with Justin Trudeau,
but but usually there's someone that that actually persuades the
candidate or the leader it's time. Do you think it
was just caucus and the and the and the blood oaths?
Do you think it was a key advisor? What? What?
(24:13):
What do you think?
Speaker 5 (24:14):
I I think it was a combination of things. I
think the you know, reading that room, even her most
ardent supporters didn't see a path for her to actually
staying on. Let let her have her grace of exiting
on her own terms. But uh, they know one I
spoke to, Uh, could I could see a path forward
(24:36):
for her? Yes, there was caucus caucus unrest, although you
can manage that if you're if you know your leadership,
you feel secure in who you are and what you
want to do. I understand the new the new the
new executive of the Liberal Party of Ontario wasn't all
(24:57):
in on her staying on. Were the undercurrents of the
New Leaf Liberals, which every party has a dissenting group
within them that always happens them, plus some other things
all kind of got together. But ultimately, you know, the
leader always gets to decide whether or not they're gonna
(25:19):
stay for five minutes or five more weeks or five
more months or whatever it happens to be. So I
think all of those things come into play. And you know,
you don't spend as much time in politics as Bonnie
Cromby has without being able to go there's I can't,
I can't, I cannot, I cannot pull this boulder through
this mud, up this hill in this way. And I
(25:42):
think she she made the right call. I think most
observers when she canceled her scrum went, all right, maybe
it's gonna be a couple of days, I had said
into a pundance with some pundit friends of mine, this
is gonna be like Liz trust and the trust from
the UK and the lettuce tasks like is she going
to be a longer hair longer than a head of lettuce?
(26:06):
Then all of this. Two hundred minutes later, a friend
of mine said, I didn't even get the lettuce out
of the fridge to start the test of you know,
the lettuce. So all of this to say it was
a weird day. It was darn near shakespearean uh in
in how all of this unfolded over the course of
the weekend. But this was where this was always going
(26:30):
to ultimately, and no one thought Bonnie Crombie would last
to fight in the next general election stake experienced.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
So you're suggesting what that she was Macbeth and and
that Nate Smith was was one of the the son
of the king that wanted to get back at her.
Speaker 5 (26:50):
Look, I think I think Brutus and Julius Caesar was
more subtle than Naderskin Smith was with trying to stab
at Bonnie. Uh But what we what we often seen
in politics is rarely the person who wields the knife
is actually the one who gets to wear the crown next.
And so we'll see what happens with Nate and his
(27:12):
his aspirations. You know, natorsk and Smith has not exactly
endeared himself to Canadians Ontarians definitely not liberals in his
whining that he didn't get a cabinet post in the
in the new Kearney government.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (27:30):
The I'm going to spend time with my family and
then not. You actually saw this week with Christian Freeland's resignation.
There was a line in there of I'm not going
to spend time with my family, which felt like a
job at Naderskin Smith and Sean Frasier and other liberals
who had said they weren't going to run because they
(27:51):
want to spend time with their family and oops, pulling
numbers are better. I'm coming back. So I think there's
all sorts of all sorts of things, all sorts of challenges.
You know, we can we'll talk about what does a
liberal leadership campaign look like and start to you know,
look at early early horse races. But I think Nate's
(28:12):
got to have got to start showing a little a
little humility and a little less temper tantrum than he
has in the political atmosphere.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
We're gonna take a break for some messages and come
back in just two minutes with Kim Right, and I'm
gonna I'm gonna ask you, Kim, you know what could
have done differently? Are there lessons from this process? Because
I think that it's an interesting you know, in any
kind of of a of a political history, a career fight,
et cetera, there's lessons to be learned. And so I'm
(28:42):
gonna ask you about that. Stay with us. Everyone back
in two minutes.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
No Radio, No Problem stream is live on Sagay nine
sixty am dot cl.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Welcome back everyone to the Brian Cromby Radio Hour. I'm
chatting tonight with Kim Wright about the Liberal leadership review
this past weekend at the Liberal convention where Bonnie Crombie
did not get more than fifty seven percent of the voter.
She got the fifty seven percent of the vote, and
initially that was deemed that was satisfactory by her, But
(29:25):
it seems that other people thought differently, and two hundred
minutes later she resigned or indicated that she would resign
as a Liberal leader when a new Liberal leader was elected. Kim,
I want to ask you. You're you know, you're a
very experienced political activist, communicator, a strategist, et cetera. I
want to go through a couple of issues and ask
(29:46):
you if those are lessons learned. Patrick Brown, the mayor
of Brampton, who was the mayor of the neighboring city
in Peel, honest seemed to have a vendetta to take
down his his neighboring mayor. His mother in law was
the candidate they had had, you know, an issue about
(30:09):
some people called it the divorce appeal. Uh and uh
and and obviously some real strong passionate debates about whether
that made sense and how taxes and and and reserves,
et cetera should be split up. Was that like, you know,
if she had won that, that that that Mississauga Cooksville seat,
(30:30):
if she hadn't created that that that that vision with
Patrick Brown, would have things been different?
Speaker 5 (30:37):
Well, I think, you know, first of all, the on again,
off again peel divorce feels a lot like Elizabeth Taylor
and Richard Burton. And I don't know where this is
ultimately going to end, but parking all of that, Patrick
is a fierce competitor, and Patrick is a fierce conservative
(30:58):
who you know, look his his his runs for a
premier or not done by any stretch to the imagination,
whether it's you know, five years, ten years, whenever Premier
Forge hangs them up, but will certainly likely to see
a Patrick Brown candidacy again under the PC party banner.
(31:20):
They're dislike of each other. I don't know what started that,
but Patrick saw this as an opportunity to be the
organizer that he has always seen himself to be and
I know the person, the amazing woman who ran the
PC party campaign in missus saul Good Cooksville. She's a
(31:43):
hell of a good strategist and a hell of a
good campaigner. They had lots of resources, and that was
that was that was true all the way through. I
think there are lots of things that you know. First
of all, as he said earlier, not have not picking
her seat, whether it was going to be Mississauga, Cooksville
or some other place in Mississauga. Not pointing that out
(32:07):
well in advance of the campaign definitely hurt her, and
especially when you have the comparison of you know, Bonnie
probably won't win a seat, similar to Stephen del Duca
wasn't going to win his seat in Vaughan. And then
you have mart Styles, the NDP leader who won Davenport
by some fourteen thousand votes. Right like, the electability question
(32:29):
became Franton center, the Bonnie versus Patrick bloodfeud, the mother
in law again Shakespearean almost but ultimately not picking a
seat early and claiming that as her seat really put
her on the back foot all the way through the campaign.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
I think there's a lesson about you know, making friends
in politics even oh absolutely in regards to friends in
other parties and the fact that you know that clearly
was not a friendship. And you know, I think it
goes farther in regards to Carolyn Parrish, your successor as
mayor of Mississauga, who some people thought would come out
and actively support the candidacy and did not, and some
(33:12):
councilor members, et cetera. So you know that the council
didn't appear to be There were some exceptions, of course
liberal activists that were on city council, but but you
didn't have that that kind of support from the neighboring
mayor and the neighboring council members that one would have expected.
Let's talk about Milton.
Speaker 5 (33:33):
No, but not at all. But that's it's a it's
a valuable point Brian politics. Well, we often have have
our teams. I can say for my own in my
own life. You know, my husband's a conservative. I have
friends in liberal liberal Land, Conservative Land and New Democrat Land.
I relish those those relationships, those friendships, those conversations, those
(33:57):
people who I know, if I ever i'd put my
name on a ballot, Well, I am not their brand
necessarily of party and flavor, they would be there for me.
I didn't see that during the provincial election. I didn't
see lots of people who across party lines or even
(34:17):
within party lines, within Liberal land coming up and wrapping
themselves around Bonnie's leadership. And that became a question mark too.
If the people who know you, the people who have
known you and fought alongside you for years, built things,
built community, aren't showing up with you, what does that say?
(34:37):
And there were a lot of times this weekend that
she was not surrounded by a failings of friends and folks,
but rather with family, and that gave certainly an impression
as well.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
I was intrigued that yesterday I saw you post I
think a picture with a Conservative that I've had on
my show at the plowing match. You know, I guess
that's true that you've got some friends in conservatble Lend
even out at plant plowing matches. And I think I've
seen you out at that stampede doing similar kinds of things.
Speaker 5 (35:09):
Absolutely, there's a photo with me and Danielle Smith. Goodness
knows how that happened. And but you know, you have
to be able to find find friends across the spectrum
and frankly the Premier does that quite well. We had
seen him in his first campaign campaigning with Hail Machallian.
We have seen him, you know, campaigning with Christian Freeland.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Well, and I got late night drinks in the cottage
with the premiram exactly.
Speaker 5 (35:34):
You know, I don't think it's going to get him
a tunnel, but you know it's good he has these drinks.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
But you know you're comment about sort of people from
another party. I want to ask you about that as well,
because you know it goes too far almost at some
point in times. Let me ask you about this. So
doug Ford had some very nasty personal attacks against her
and then you know, the day before the election, he
(36:00):
actually showed up in her riding at the Polish church.
She's Polish and so it was like really a you know,
I don't know what you call it, a finger or
something like that to someone to come to their riding
and not just in their writing, but to go to
the big Polish church in their riding, which is her ethnicity.
There seemed to be an animosity there that sort of
(36:20):
went beyond what would be sort of normal normal competitiveness
and that is that just because they were two leaders,
or is that because she took a very antagonistic manner
toward toward Ford that became at times, I think a
little personal. And you saw a little bit of that
in the in the debates. What's your sense because Ford
really went after her and went after her big.
Speaker 5 (36:42):
Yeah, Ford does that? Right. You look at the polling,
you look at the data, and you go, all right,
how can I make sure that that potentially marginal win.
And we saw this where you know, some of the
some of the some of the seats were held by
you know, a couple of votes, not hundreds of votes.
So you go in there and you make the big swings.
(37:02):
You know, we saw this in the twenty the Hillary
Clinton versus Donald Trump, you know, presidential where he went
into what should have been key democratic areas. You go in,
you take your swing, and you don't leave anything behind.
Does it feel like it's a personal attack?
Speaker 4 (37:21):
Yep?
Speaker 5 (37:21):
For the same reason. In campaign sometimes we make sure
that the you know, we put we make sure there's
a giant sign outside of the front door of your competitor,
right like you just these are things we do in politics.
Did it feel personal? Probably was it a bit personal, yeah,
but it was also how do you win those other
(37:43):
seats across the province by throwing those those big sticks
on the ground. And look at the premier and every
campaign we do this, we go, we do we do
stuff in the premier's riding where we'll do things in
other folks writing, and mss Crowby had no compunction about
not doing that to mart Styles and and the NDP
(38:07):
going right into holding things in in in their writings too,
like it's politics. We can be mad about it, we
can think that feels like dirty pool, but this is
just politics. And if you want to have the big
the big chair, you gotta go everywhere.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
I don't know, I don't know if I agree that.
I think that that that you got to create friends,
as we talked about and uh. And I think that
that the Patrick Brown animosity was one of the fatal flaws.
And I think that the fact that there appeared to
be even more than just good competitiveness but actual some
you know, desire to really harm went beyond sort of
(38:43):
the competitiveness, and it ended up being I think fatal
because she ended up losing that that writing, and I
think things would have been different if she had won
in Cooksville, and you know, we could probably talk about
whether they should have spent more time in Cooksville and
whether there should have been more of a you know,
a central party campaign to make sure that she went Cooksville.
So let me come to Milton if I could, because
(39:05):
you know, in my life it's often been that line about,
you know, the perfect is the enemy the good. And
Milton wasn't a slam dunk. And just to remind everyone,
there was a by election in Milton. Milton is just
beside Mississauga, so it's not Mississauga. And clearly I think
she would have preferred to have run in Mississauga. But
there was a by election in Milton. There wasn't going
to be a by election it would appear in Mississauga.
(39:27):
And so she had a chance and it was winnable,
and I think that she should have taken that chance.
And maybe if she had lost, it would have been
a real problem, but you could explain it away as
not being Mississauga. She didn't take the chance, she didn't run.
I think she should have. What do you think, Kim,
was that a fatal flaw and sort of her.
Speaker 5 (39:47):
It certainly didn't help coming off of the lackluster leadership.
The third ballot fifty three percent, we're supposed to be
a coronation, and then she didn't get the bounce and
the polling coming off of that leadership, and usually there's
a bit of there's usually a bit of a bounce.
(40:08):
So there was no Bonnie bounce. There was no Bonnie
bounce for her or the party. And I think there
was a real reticence internally in liberal land to well,
we've got a new leader. Yes she needs a seat,
but we don't want her to lose because I'm gonna
have to go through all of the machinations of a
leadership review all over again, because there would have been
(40:30):
calls for her head right her entire, Her entire point
of view of why to elect her leader was I'm
the one who can win. Am I have this glowing resume?
I can win? And there was a lot of concern.
You know, there was also talk about her running in Belleville.
I actually think that the Bay of Quinty riding when
(40:51):
Todd Smith stepped down, I actually think that that was
probably more than the Milton Race the Bay of Quinty
and actually would have been I would think the easiest
path to victory for her in that in those by
elections she had an opportunity for But I think her
team was just just skittish. And if you're skittish about
(41:14):
these races, if you're skittish about your own leader and
the and and their leadership aspirations, that's going to continue
to to shroud your your campaigns.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
One of the other things that you know, I wonder
about is that she had said, and the you know
comment was repeated numerous times, that it was a snap election.
I don't think it was a snap election. It was not.
Speaker 5 (41:38):
Sorry, I get very frustrated whenever I talks about a
snap elition. Was it an early election, yes, but by
by snap election. It's like you know that adage about,
you know, if your dog runs away in the prairies,
you can see it still running three days later. That's
what this election was was. You know, there had been
pretty significant rumors around Queen's Park and in other places.
(42:03):
Get ready, this is coming. The premiere telegraphed it, his
campaign team telegraphed it, so you know, it might not
have been ideal, and I thought we all had a
gentle person's agreement never to have a campaign ever again
in the snow after that two thousand and five, two
thousand and six federal election where it went over the
(42:24):
Christmas break. But you know, here we were. But it
wasn't a snap election. It was just an election people
didn't hoped wouldn't come as.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
So, should the Liberal Party have been better organized with
more candidates nominated? Shouldn't there have been more preparation for
this early election call that was not a snap because
almost everyone knew it was coming.
Speaker 5 (42:46):
Yeah, And I think that's a that's a valid criticism,
you'll and I think one of the challenges we saw
in the campaign was her continuing for the first two
two and a half weeks of the campaign talking about
it being a snap election and a waste of taxpayer dollars. Look,
elections are never in a democracy. Elections are never a
(43:07):
waste campaign of taxpayer dollars. They are the price we
pay for democracy, whether it was going to be then
or six months from now, a year from now, whatever
would happened to be. But election campaigns are the price
we pay for democracy. So I think that that never
resonated with either her voters or her universe of voters,
(43:28):
and she's stuck with that line for far too long.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
We're going to take a final break and come back
with a couple of comments. If we could from Kim
about the upcoming NDP vote and if there's some lessons learned.
I think you said something about we can't have the
film Titanic plane in one of the breakout rooms. Stay
with us, everyone back in two.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Minutes stream us live at SAGA nine am CA.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
Welcome back everyone to the Brian Crime Radio. I've got
Kim Wright of Wright Strategies. She's an INDP activist. She
was an observer at the Liberal of Leadership Review convention
this past weekend and I followed your tweets and your
posts with interest as you commented on a lot of
the things that were going on. What, if anything, do
you think the NDP have learned from this, because I
(44:28):
understand the NDP have got the same process coming up
this weekend. Do you think this is going to mean
that someone announces from the stage it's got to be
sixty six point six percent or do you think that
actually it's going to be like something with an eight
to start with? You know, what's your sense? Are there
any learnings from this last weekend that the NDP is
going to take to heart.
Speaker 5 (44:48):
Well, absolutely, and that's always the case. So every year,
every convention the New Democrats have, there is always an
automatic leadership review. That's just standard process for us. So
it's not we don't see this as some sort of
civil war breaking out. And in every party there's always
going to be a sub section that just votes against
(45:12):
every leader and that's okay. This is the NDP's policy
convention in Niagara falls this coming weekend. But it's also
a chance for mart Styles and the NDP. It was
already a chance for them to say, here's what we learned,
here's what we're seeing, but more importantly, here's that path
to victory in twenty twenty six to get Marrett Styles
(45:34):
to become Premier Marret Styles, and here's what the caucus
is doing, and here's what those potential future cabinet ministers
start to look like and do. And I think that
that is an important conversation that Marrett who is now
who continues to be the leader of the official opposition.
The New Democrats have been the second place for the
last three elections and have a lot of really great
(45:57):
caucus members and conversations to build upon the opening that
we've now also been given. With the Liberals once again
in in disarray, and given what we talked about for
the last hour, this is an opportunity for people to
see Marret styles as that you know, with her swagger,
(46:17):
with her sparkle, with her gravitask, with that you know,
really great Newfoundlander sensibility that that she brings to the
table and showcase who she is without there being a
crowded other stage. This is just a really great showcase
of mart and the and the and the team and
the potential future cabinet. So I'm excited about that. I'm
(46:39):
excited to see some folks I only saw during the
campaign and beyond uh, and to start talking about some
deep policy things but lessons to be learned. Make sure
that you can count the votes, uh, and that in
your what you were referenced about about Titanic was there
was a hospitality suite and given that it was Tiff,
(47:01):
they were showing you know, movie clips, and it was
movie themed and they were literally giving out branded popcorn
and it said Liberals and boxes of the popcorn. And
so I was joking about making eating literal and figurative popcorn,
but they were showing a clip of various movies, including Titanic,
which felt a little I guess on brand for the
rest of the weekend of how it went, but not
(47:22):
exactly the image I would have wanted to portray if
I were in liberal land.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
Is anyone checking the agenda to make sure that to
myrit Style's speeches before the voting nads.
Speaker 5 (47:33):
Yes, Yes, Marrett is a wonderful speaker. She connects with people.
One of the great things about Marrett is that she
has actually done those conversations across the world. But I
first met marat when she was when she was a
researcher for the party. She has done every job, whether
it's been you know, a researcher, staffer, president of the
(47:55):
Federal Party, and then became, you know, a little elected official.
So she's got deep roots in the NDP, but also
deep roots across the country and with folks across the
political spectrum. So I think you're going to see a
lot more of of her and her gravitas and her
sparkle as we as we go forward.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
Last question, what do you think the number is going
to start with? What number?
Speaker 5 (48:18):
Sure as hell I'm going to start with a five,
so you know we'll go from there. But no, I'm
I'm excited about this. But you know, to anybody for
future aspirations. I apparently Prince Charles now King Charles once
asked Joe Clark why sixty seven percent? Like why did
you set that number? And it really just became the
(48:41):
head scratcher. But look, if two thirds of your party
I aren't keen on where you're at, you should be
looking for a new job.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
Kim right, thanks so much for Jonas. You really appreciate it,
and I really appreciated your tweets and your social media
posting during the weekend. I think that you gave a
flavor for what was going on in the weekend convention
that is very helpful to people. Was very helpful to me.
So thanks so much.
Speaker 5 (49:06):
You're very welcome. And for for liberals out there who
aren't sure where their progressive home is, I truly invite
you to look at mart Styles and the n DP.
There they are a home for you.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
That's our show for tonight, everybody, thank you for joining.
I guess my final thought is there are some lessons
to learn, you know, I think that creating that that
that that enemy or that vindictive situation with with Patrick Brown,
the mayor of the neighboring city, was a mistake. I
think not running in Milton and or you know, eastern Ontario,
(49:41):
as Kim mentioned, you know, it wouldn't have been the
perfect scenario, but it was a pretty good scenario. And
I think you've got to take risks, and I think
he got to be in the legislature or the House
of Commons, and not being in the legislature of the
House of Commons, I think was was a fatal flaw.
I think, you know, the speech timing that Kim talked
about was probably an issue counting votes and making sure
The fact that you had what was it, four hundred
(50:02):
delegates that didn't show up and that you had to
move alternate delegates into positions clearly messed up. But whatever
vote counting you might have had, and so therefore counting
not just the delegate votes but the alternate votes is key.
And then you know, I think back to you know,
Obama bringing Hillary Clinton into his cabinet. You think about
(50:23):
a team of rivals. That great book about Lincoln, there's
something about not reaching out to your rivals and including
them in the tent and making sure that they're not
going to be dissidents for a long period of time.
I think in politics, like in business, like in lots
of things in life, you got to make some friends,
and that's critically important. And friends even with people that
(50:45):
have got very different points of view. And if someone
opposes you and they're in your company or in your
tent and your party, got to still reach out to
them and try to make a common cause. Anyway, I
think there are some lessons that need to be known here.
Thanks for joining me, everybody that's a show up for
Thank
Speaker 1 (51:01):
Kidding stream us live at SAGA nine sixty am dot
C a m.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!