September 19, 2025 • 52 mins
Tonight on the Brian Crombie Hour, Brian interviews Anna Paluzzi about Rewirement (her term for redefining yourself in retirement) and networking. Anna contributed a chapter to the bestselling book about networking: The Ripple Effect authored by David Tsubouchi and Marc Keeley. She held numerous senior positions at Metrolinx, Northern Telecom, Canadian Tire and board roles.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The views expressed in the following program are those of
the participants and do not necessarily reflect the views of
Saga nine sixty am or its management.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Good easing everyone, and welcome to the Brian Cronbry Radio.
I've got Anna Polutzia with us tonight. She's a co
author or contributor to a really interesting book on networking
called The Ripple Effect, and it's actually now an Amazon
bestseller I understand, and it's doing quite well because I
think that we're all interested in how to do networking better,
(00:39):
because people are frustrated that, you know, they hear this
something you got to do, but they don't know how
to do it and they're uncomfortable with it. And so
having a book of stories of narratives of different people
and how they get out there and connect with people
and make their networks, make their personal relationships work for them,
I think is really was really interesting and critically important
(01:02):
to us in life, in careers and personally. Anna Polusi
is a former senior advisor to Metrolinx's Chief information officer.
She played a pivared role in their digital transformation. Previous
to Metrolinks, she held several different positions at Canadian Tire
throughout including chief Technolo, Chief of Staff to the Chief
Technology Officer, leader of a community of practice for citizen developers,
(01:25):
and a digital portfolio manager. Building a career in the
world of change management, communication and technology. Her extensive and
varied career has spent healthcare, education, retail, telecom and tran transportation.
She thinks that this is equipped not only with a
wealth of knowledge and experience, but has also fostered a
deep love for technology. Now she's entered into the next chapter,
(01:49):
which is semi retirement, and she effectively refers to it,
I like this as rewirement and has transitioned into the
role of an independent consultant, where her passion for driving
organization is six access through digital transformation continues to thrive.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Wow Anna, welcome to the show.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
So tell me why did you read a chapter for
a book about networking?
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Well, David Subucci, as you know, I think you've had
him on your show previously. I met David through the
Director's College at m Maaster University. He and I are
both graduates of the Director's College and we happened to
be on an innovation module together and we sat on
(02:33):
a bus or a van going to dinner and we
just kind of clicked. And this was several years ago,
and we've stayed in touch, and as you know, David's
written several books, and you know has has an extensive
career in politics. But we've stayed in touch. And he
and Mark Keeley, I guess, came up with this idea
that we should write this book about networking. But they
(02:54):
didn't want to just write it themselves. They wanted to
bring people in that they knew their network to share
their stories. So I David called me up one day
and said, Hey, Mark and I are thinking about writing
this book and I really want you to write a
chapter for it. And I'm like, pardon me, Like why me?
(03:15):
What are you talking about? He says, well, you know,
I know that you have a passion for networking, a
passion for building relationships, and I just want you to
tell your story. He said. Many of us, or most
of us in the book have come from very humble
means and have worked our way through and too successful careers,
and we want to share those stories. So I couldn't
(03:37):
say no to David. I bet you know what that's like?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Why did you develop a passion for networking, a passion
for relationships.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
I think I learned early in life that those relationships
are what get you through not only the good times,
but the hard times as well. And having a great
support network around even in high school, like I had
a you know, a circle of friends and we're still
friends to this day, where some of us are in
(04:06):
Toronto and we get together. And there's something about networking.
You learn so much from other people. You learn about
not just their careers and you know what they're skilled at,
but about their personal lives. You know their backgrounds, their culture,
and I just find that it enriches my life to
network with other people. It's it's just one of those
(04:29):
things and I love I know it sounds kind of,
you know, funny, but I love being around people. I
love talking to people and learning about them. And I
found that by doing that, I grew exponentially every time
I met somebody who added something really important to my life,
whether it was personally or professionally.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
You know, I'm interested by the use of the word
that you used and the word that you said, David
Tabuci used about a passion for you know, a lot of.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
People would say, oh, it's something I gotta.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Do or the drudgery of or the necess what's the
difference between what most people think about networking, which is
the necessity or the drudgery of something that they know
they have to do but don't really want to do,
versus your passion? How do you like? How do you
go from, you know, one point of view about the
(05:18):
importance of networking to another point of view, another change
of attitude.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
I think a lot of it has to do with
who you are in your background as well. There's one
of the ripple effect. One of David Lindsay writes his
chapters about introverts and networking. So I've always been an extrovert.
So for me, it's it's more I don't want to
say easy, but it's something that comes more naturally. For
a lot of people, it doesn't come naturally, and they
(05:43):
really have to work at it, and it's very uncomfortable
for even for me sometimes, Like I'm not saying that,
you know, I just go in somewhere and I can
network with anyone. I get intimidated by some people. I
feel a little bit, you know, imposter syndrome kind of
sets in and I'm thinking, you know, why does this
person want to talk to me, what do I have
(06:04):
to give or to the conversation. And I think a
lot of people find it very difficult, especially today, because
we don't have a lot of face to face interaction
like we used to when I grew up. Everything was
face to face when I grew up. And as I
say in my chapter in the book, I sat with
my dad and watched him every single day interact with
(06:26):
people that came into his shop and how he built
relationships with people. And I think a lot of it
is about, you know, caring about who that person is.
So it's not just about networking and collecting a name
of people for your network. And I think a lot
of people see it as work and something that they
(06:47):
have to do that maybe they're not comfortable with. And
so I think getting comfortable with something that's very uncomfortable
is where that comes from. It's hard for me to
talk about people who don't find it as aren't as
passionate about it as I am, but I understand it.
I've mentored and coached a lot of people that do
(07:09):
find it very difficult.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
So is the extrovertness that you've got versus the introvertness
that some people have, or the passion that you have
for meeting people and interacting with people, or your father's
desire to care for people. Is that genetic? Is that socialized?
Is it something that if you don't have it, you
can learn and achieve, Like, tell me a little bit
(07:33):
about where you think this desire to meet people and
connect with people comes from.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
I think some of it is innate. I don't think
it's genetic because my brother is the complete opposite of me.
He's an introvert, he doesn't like being around people. I
hope when he listens to this he doesn't want to
kill me. But he is very different from me, like
complete opposite. And we grew up in the same family
with the same parents and the same child, but we're
(08:00):
two very different people. But I think it is very
much a learned behavior. It is something that I have
seen other people when we've lost our jobs. For example,
when I worked. Now I'm going to date myself at
Nortel if you can remember Nortel many many years ago,
and a couple of friends of mine and we both
we all lost our job at the same time, and
(08:22):
they were like, oh God, now I got to start
reaching out to people and connecting with people. And you know,
one of the things I said to them is it's
really easy. Take the people that even if it's a
very small group, if you think about it, that's what
the ripple effect is. Connect with the people that make
you comfortable and ask them to connect you like, do
(08:43):
some introductions. We call them gateway friends or connectors where
you can go. But you have to take it. I
think a little bit. It's for someone who's not comfortable
with it. It takes time to overcome that sort of
reaching out. It's almost like cold calling, I guess in
some ways, right you're trying to reach out to people
(09:05):
and asking them questions or asking them for help or
whatever it could be. So it's something you have to
work at, but you can certainly learn to do that.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
One of the reasons why I wanted to meet you
was because I read the chapter your chapter in the
book and you talk about your father and you just
mentioned a couple of minutes ago that he cared for people.
A lot of people think about networking as you know,
how I'm going to meet people that I can use.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
It's transactional.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
It is because they can help me get a job
or they can give me a recommendation or a reference
or you know, a contract or something like that. So
it's more about the utilization of my network. Why and
how did your father want to care for people? He
wanted to do business with them, Why did he want
(09:54):
to care for them?
Speaker 4 (09:56):
Well, that's a really good question. I think I think
he knew just like I've learned and I learned from him,
is that if you're genuinely, if you're genuine with people
and you and you don't want to just use them,
but people know when you're being disingenuous. I think I
can tell of somebody just you know, wants to talk
(10:21):
to me for reasons like that that aren't don't include
the fact that they not care about me but know
me as a person. And I don't know. I think
it's just something that he was just the kind of
person that really did care about others, and so that
was his way of showing that. And that's a really
(10:44):
tough one because.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
But I think it's I think it's an important one
because I think that you know, caring for people, actually
wanting to have a person relationship with them, you know.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Wanting to help them.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Frankly, sometimes maybe even more than you want them to
help you. Is critical to what personal relationships are about
and are critical to what you know.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Really good networking is.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
I've always thought that networking is a bad term because
it suggests it's work and it's you know, I had
this one person who I interviewed who said, it's creating friends,
it's meeting new people. And if you changed your attitude
and thought that you know, you're going to go out
to meet new friends, you would change your whole perspective.
And I think that that's what your father got, and
that's what I think that you're all about, is that
(11:26):
you know you're you're meeting these people because you want
to get to know them, because you want to care
for them.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
Exactly, and you know what you learn from them. Like
I said earlier, you meet people, you learn so much
from them and they learn from you, and it's that
sort of give and take. And but some people do
see and it's unfortunate networking as I've got this list
of network I've got, you know, ten thousand people on LinkedIn,
But who are those people? Do they know you? Do?
(11:54):
They are they somebody you can reach out to and
you know at some point and say, hey, I need
your help. David is a great example. Like he and
I just met in a class. It wasn't anything, you know,
it was just a serendipitous kind of meeting and we started.
He said, hey, you know, give me your number, give
me this, and we got to be friends. And now
(12:19):
I've you know, my life has been so much richer
because of David, and I have a lot of people
in my life.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Do you have some best practices or suggestions for people
that want to do networking better?
Speaker 4 (12:33):
Well, you have to expose yourself to areas right. It's
not just about reaching out to people on LinkedIn, but
try to get some go to if you're at a conference,
for example, and they have a networking event, or at
work where there's people getting together to do something social
after work. These are important things to to really come
(12:55):
for you to participate in, because if you don't participate
in those and people think, oh, oh that they don't care,
they don't want to be part of it. But if
you participate in things like that and you open yourself up.
And one of the things, this is just a quick story,
is I was at a networking event and it was
it was a huge thing and everybody's got a glass
of wine, and you're walking around. And I was talking
(13:16):
to some people and we were standing kind of in
a semi circle, right, and somebody came up and said, oh,
I'm so glad that you all are open for new
people to join your conversation. And I said, I don't understand.
She said, well, look around, all the circles are closed,
she said, but your circle is open. And I felt
(13:37):
like comfortable, like you were inviting me in. So I
think it's really important to be conscious of the people
around you and present yourself as open. So the way
you talk to others, the way you you know, if
somebody's walking by you just smile at them, say hello,
they will be more inclined to, you know, to connect
(13:59):
with you and converse with you. My brother used to
just it drove him crazy because he says, you talked
to everybody, and I find a simple hello, how are you?
You know? In line at Starbucks. I've met a person
in line in Starbucks that became a friend. It's just
about putting yourself out there. You need to make sometimes
(14:21):
you need to make the first move. Or if somebody
does that to you and says hello, respond don't just
walk by. Make sure you try and connect. Look at
people in the eye when you're talking to them, be
genuine in your conversation. Find something that's gonna that you
can connect on. So let's say you and I David,
(14:42):
Brian call you David there, you know we met somewhere
and you find out you have a mutual friend, or
you know somebody or your politics right is something that
is something you connect on. Or you have a dog
and I have a dog, like it's just very small
things that can turn into something much more.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
You're saying that you've gone on to a different stage
now and it's rewirement. That sounds kind of fascinating. It's
an interesting term. We're going to take a break for
some messages and when we come back with Anna Palusi,
I want to ask her about semi retirement, about rewirement
and is there ageism, is it something she's excited about,
(15:24):
How did she how does she network in that stage
of career in life? Stay with us, everyone, this is
going to be interesting conversation about semi retirement.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Back in two.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Minutes stream us Live at SAGA nine six am dot C.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
A welcome back everyone to the Brian Conby Radio or
I've got Anna Palusy with us tonight. She's got an
interesting background where she's for Metrolinks, for Canadian Hire, for Nortel,
(16:03):
et cetera. Often in sort of it's interesting you got
you talk about chief of chief of staff rules. That
must have been an interesting rules that you've had where
you're sort of traffic cop and and coordinating all the
activities for some senior executives. But now you've said you've
gone on to a different chapter, a chapter in semi
(16:25):
retirement that you call rewirement. Tell me about what rewirement is,
and then also tell me, if you could, about what
networking like is in a rewirement stage.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
As somebody. I can't take credit for the rewirement. Somebody
on LinkedIn posted one day that they were in their
rewirement stage, and I thought, that's so true, because you
have to rewire your brain after all those years of
intense work and leadership and people depending on you for
all this stuff, and you know, working crazy hours and
(17:01):
not getting any sleep and traveling and doing all this,
and then all of a sudden you're like, hmm, so
now what do I do with myself? So your brain
has to rewire itself to say, Okay, I'm at a
different stage. Now what do I do with this time?
And that's why I like to call it rewirement, because
(17:21):
I really had to think about my life in a
totally different way. Now I didn't have that thing that
I got up for every single morning, and you know
that I got paid for to do, and then all
of a sudden, I'm here and I have all this
time on my hands, and what am I going to
(17:41):
do with that time? So I really had to rewire
my brain. So I said, okay, I can't just go
straight retirement because I'll drive myself crazy. So I decided, okay,
I'll do some part time sort of contract work and consulting.
I did some with a credit union, and it's usually
my My work is around organizational change. It's about leadership
(18:04):
and it's about advising executives and stuff like that. It
was just so I did a little bit for about
a year and a half and then I said, h okay,
I need a break. So I've taken a bit of
a break and I do sit and on boards, which
is a great way to network. By the way, if
you're one of those people you're in retirement and you
(18:26):
want to get on a not for profit board or
something like that. It's a great way to continue to
build your network and your community after when you're retired.
And so now I spend a lot of time to
be honest, is I want and I say this at
the end of my book, is that I've created such
an extensive network and I continue to create when the
(18:47):
Ripple Effect has exponentially expanded my network just from writing
this book, because we go places and we sign the book,
and you know, book signings and launches. And I didn't
know anybody but David when I started this, but then
I when we went to the launch, I did meet
a couple people. I realized we're at Director's College as well,
(19:09):
so that was kind of a thing that was in there.
So I volunteer my time with Saint Joseph's Healthcare. That's
something that I do in my you know, now that
I'm semi retired and I sit on their quality committee,
and I want to give back some ways to the
organization I'm getting involved with. And this just happened through
(19:32):
the Ripple Effect and leading some of the people through
an organization called Nactus, which is a network of post
secondary student leaders who are committed to building businesses that
are catalysts for positive change and social responsibility, and apparently
it's a worldwide I'm just getting into it now and
going out to Vancouver to do a workshop at the
(19:54):
University of British Columbia with a bunch of young university
and college students. So for me, retirement is about I
still network through the volunteering, through the things that I do,
and it's I think it's even more fulfilling now than
before because I also use my network to mentor others.
(20:16):
And I have a few younger people that call me up,
you know, if they're going for a job interview. Can
you help me do a mock interview? My kids hate
it when I do that, but I do it with
them all the time. Can you connect me with someone?
And I think you said something earlier that I should
have caught on too, as some people just think it's
collecting people because you want a job. That's how are
(20:37):
networking is. It's about, like I said, getting to know people.
Somebody said to you, creating a circle of friends or
a circle of influence. Going to those people and they
can help you. So it's not about Hey, Brian, you're
in my network, Can you hook me up with somebody
so I can find a job. A lot of times
it's just go have a coffee with somebody, say I'd
(20:58):
like to pick your brain. I like you to share
with me your experience. I don't know anybody that would
say really no to that. Oh, somebody wants to hear
about my life, somebody wants to learn from me. And
so I do some mentoring and helping young people through
job interviews, through difficulties at work, and just from mentoring
(21:18):
from a perspective of networking, because I have one young
lady who comes from Eastern Europe, and she's very introverted,
and she finds it very difficult. She's in a different
culture now, so a lot of times she'll call me
up and say, you know, why was at work today
and people were talking like they spent so much time
just talking about their private lives. And when I was
(21:41):
in Romania, you would never do that at work, right,
So I'm trying to help her understand that that's part
of the social aspect of work, you know, get into
those conversations, talk about your baking, talk about your dogs,
talk about gaming, whatever connects you to people. And because
you never know along the road. Even if you work
(22:02):
in a data team, somewhere down the road, you might
have to talk to people any you know, infrastructure team
or whatever in it or any other place. There's everything
is collaboration now. So don't stay in your bubble. Make
sure you expand outside of your bubble.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Some people have told me that they find it very
difficult when they retire and or when they're out of
work to network because maybe not the first question, but
one of the next questions is what do you do?
And so much, regrettably of our identity is built into
you know, what we do for a living.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
How do you deal with that? How do you how
do you answer that question?
Speaker 2 (22:39):
If if you were at a networking session and someone says, well,
what do you do?
Speaker 4 (22:43):
I make sure that I get involved in different activities.
So whether you know, I mean, I'm as lucky that
I'm writing a book, but I will I'll look online
and see if there's certain groups that are getting together
as something.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Sorry, I apologize.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
I answer the question in a networking session of what
what do you do with people? When people want you
know what people you would have said, well, I'm chief
of staff to the the blah blah blah at metrolinks
that would have been an easy answer, or I'm vice
president of something other world CEO or something. What what
do you say when you're retired?
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Or even more chill, when you're out of work? When
you know.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Lots of people say you know that the time when
it's almost most important in network, when you're at a work.
People have challenges networking because they say, I don't know
what to say. How do I say, well, I'm currently unemployed.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
How do you like? How do you how do you
deal with that?
Speaker 2 (23:36):
What do you say when someone comes up to you
at a cocktail party or at a networking event and says, well,
what do you do?
Speaker 3 (23:41):
What's your position? What's your job?
Speaker 4 (23:43):
And I say, well, I'm retired. I'm I've done my bit,
you know. I say that a lot of times I'll say,
you know, I've I've worked very hard in my life
and now is time for me to focus on different things,
and a lot of it to do with volunteering and
getting to know others through different groups.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
So just be authentic.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
Yeah, you have to be authentic. I mean there's just
no people know when you're not. Like, let's be honest.
People can tell when you're not being authentic. You're just
kind of going through the motions, like you know, I'm
supposed to be networking, so I'm just going to go
talk to this person and say hello, and and you know,
just it's a tough one, I think for people, especially
(24:30):
in retirement. Again, I have such a broad network. I
still stay in touch with people that I worked with,
so there's nothing wrong with that. Like, you know, even
though you're not working with those people anymore, you've built
such great relationships, stay in touch.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Is there agism?
Speaker 2 (24:48):
If you go to a networking event or a cocktail party,
do you find people not wanting to talk to you
because you're the older person, the retired person in the room.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
I have never felt that. I have never felt that.
In fact, I find that young people come up all
the time. Maybe others me personally I have. I don't
find that that's a problem for me. It might be
for others, and I can understand it, but I don't know.
It's just I have a lot of young people as
(25:17):
my friends as well, and maybe it's something to do
with that. And I love young people. Young people make
me feel young, so I'm attracted there's a bit of
a and I will go up to young people too.
But I find that the other night, when we were
at an event with David and them, young people came
up to us just as much as the older people
(25:38):
came up to us.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
You had really quite an impressive career.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
You've now written this chapter in this book about networking,
the Ripple Effect. If you had an opportunity to talk
to a twenty year old Anna Pelucy, what would you
tell your younger self.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
My younger self, don't be afraid, I think, you know,
I'll be honest. Growing up in Saint Marie, it was
very insular, like we were all. I was from an
immigrant family, so we lived kind of on the wrong
side of the tracks a little bit as well. But
so I had this whole insecurity right about about being
(26:17):
as good as other people, because you know, my parents
immigrated and we weren't really wealthy. And so I think
for a long time in my you know, my childhood
or when I was growing up, I just didn't feel
that I was as smart or important or you know,
(26:39):
established whatever as others. And I think if I had
told myself then, because I, you know, don't be afraid
because I was afraid. I you know, I did not
put myself out there a lot. It took a while
for me to get there. And I think that I
would tell myself just be yourself number one. Be yourself
(27:03):
and don't let other people dictate how you feel about yourself, right,
don't don't take what other people are making you feel
like just listen to your dad.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
It's surprising.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
It's surprising that you're saying this because it sounds like
now you're not afraid at all and you go out
and meet anybody. So was there a catalyst, a something
that switched you from being this twenty year old that
was afraid to this person that was not afraid and networked.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Like a professional. Was there a mentor? Was there an inspiration?
Was there a book? Was there a Tony Robbins session?
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Was there something that you did that was this catalyst
to this transformational change.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
I did learn a lot when I moved to Toronto.
I think that was huge for me because I didn't realize,
like when I was at home and su Saint Mary,
I knew everybody, everybody knew me. It was it was easy, right,
And then all of a sudden I got to Toronto,
and I, you know, luckily I had my brother and
my sister in law and people around me that introduced
(28:06):
me to others. But I think it was more when
I realized that if I wanted to survive in Toronto
and in a big city, I really needed to put
myself out there. And I think that's where my push
came from, because I felt like I could, like for
(28:26):
someone like me who was at home, I always had
tons of friends. I went to Toronto. It took me a
few years before I really developed a group of people
that I felt were my friends, because it was harder
to infiltrate, if you will, into people's lives in Toronto
that were really busy and stuff like that. So I
(28:47):
got a job at the public library there and it
just helped me open up to being around people, talking
to people and stuff like that. It just developed from there.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
If you knew everyone and had lots of friends at
Susan Marine and it was comfortable and easy, why did
you move to Toronto?
Speaker 3 (29:07):
Why take that risk?
Speaker 4 (29:09):
My father felt that there was so much more for
me than living in Sue Saint Marie and you know,
just going out with my friends and doing stuff. He
really encouraged me to get an education. He kept He
always told me, you're so smart. I had a brother
who's like part probably a genius in so many ways.
(29:29):
He was very intelligent. It was always Mario Mario. This,
Mario's so intelligent, you know. And my dad used to
say to me, yeah, but you're smart, and I like,
I didn't get the marks, but I would go, you're smart.
And now what I realized he was saying too, is
it was about emotional intelligence, right. It was about that
whole being around people and the ability to connect with
(29:51):
people and do things like that. That really came through
So my dad, you know, and I talk about him
all the time and miss him so dearly. He really
was my mentor. He helped me through whether when I
came to Toronto, he encouraged me, I will pay for
your education. I will do whatever it takes. I want
you to go there. I want you to be successful.
You have so much to give, make sure you give.
(30:14):
It was that positive reinforcement that just was always there
for me. And I can't say enough about that.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
But there's also something about not taking the easy way out.
It's not doing just what you're comfortable with, putting yourself
into a situation where you're going to be a little
bit challenged. And I think challenge is important in life
and in development, and so too many people always take
the easy root out, and it seems like taking the
tough route going to Toronto, going a place where you
(30:41):
didn't have friends and then making sure that you had
to try to create a network here in a brand
new city was a real catalyst.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
Yes, you have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable. I
think that's part of networking as well. For a lot
of people who don't find networking as much fun as
I do. You have to take yourself out of your
comfort zone, right. It's being comfortable with being being comfortable
with being uncomfortable and and that's something and I think
(31:09):
when you when you go and you challenge yourself, that's
where the growth really comes from. It's not from doing
the same old thing. You don't really grow that much.
But once you challenge yourself and you go out of
your comfort zone and you know it's even small baby steps,
and you achieve something, it's like, wow, I can do this.
And then you just keep going right and you keep moving,
(31:31):
and that's where you really really grow.
Speaker 5 (31:35):
Have you ever had a big failure, Yeah, because I
think that sometimes I think that sometimes the biggest growth
comes through comes through a failure, comes through a problem.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
And you know this madage about what doesn't kill you
makes you stronger, or you learn from failures, you never
learned from successes, and so yeah, I think one of
the things about success and career success in life is
you know, not encouraging failure, but also not being devastated
(32:10):
by failure, because failure is a learning experience.
Speaker 4 (32:12):
Yeah. So I was always used to getting my way
and succeeding a lot of times. And what I did,
and after I graduated from UFT, I really wanted to
go to teachers college. And this was back in the
late eighties, and at that time, the market like we
were saturated with teachers and trying to get into teachers
(32:35):
college was so difficult. And I was sure that I
was going to get in, right, I just confidence, like
I graduated, I'm going to get in. And I remember
when I got that letter that said no, thanks, You've
not been admitted to teachers College. I was devastated. I
think I cried for two days when I got that
(32:55):
because I just couldn't believe that that they said no,
and I went to the university and I went right
to the registrar's desk and said, look, I got this letter.
I want to understand why you didn't accept me. I
needed to understand the why. And they said, you know what,
we just have so many people right now that are applying.
(33:17):
The competition is incredible. And they said to me, well,
if you go back and get a master's degree, you'll
have a better chance of getting into teachers College. And
I'm like what. But they explained it to me and said,
don't take it personally. It's just that there's just so
many people applying for teachers college and there's so few
seats or you know places that we couldn't do it.
(33:38):
And I I just always, my whole life, I wanted
to be a teacher, and so this was a big
blow to me. But I just said, okay, well I'm
going to find a job now. I had no desire
to go for a master's degree at that point in
my life, and I just said, okay, that's fine. I'm
(33:59):
just going to go and figure out something else. And
that's when I started, you know, looking for jobs in
other areas and saw that there were opportunities where I
could work and I've done a lot of this where
I work in certain places for like Metrolinks and kinda
entire but there were opportunities there for me to do
some kind of teaching, whether it was mentorship, whether it
(34:22):
was getting up in front of new employees and talking
about the company. But there was ways to do that.
I never really realized it at the time, but I
just said, Okay, well this is not meant to be,
so I need to find another way in my life.
But it was I still can feel in my throat
how I felt when they said no, you're We're not
(34:43):
going to accept you into this program.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
So what did you learn from that?
Speaker 4 (34:48):
I learned that that you know what you don't always
get what you want. And that was a big lesson
for me because in Susse Marie, like I ran for
students Council and I was, you know, I succeeded. Whatever
I did, I seem to succeed. And this was the
first time that somebody just said no to me, you're
You're not and I felt like I was not good enough.
(35:11):
But then I had to realize it wasn't about me personally,
but the environment that I was in and the timing,
and at that time I learned timing is so important.
Look around what's going on in the world, and how
does that affect what you're going to do. And it
kind of opened my eyes to that that it's not
(35:31):
just about me. It's about my environment and what's going
on around me, and that I have to get used
to to being part of that as opposed to thinking
that that's going to become part of you know, that's
just going to change for me. I need to change
to a very part.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
It's a very powerful story. So let me share you,
share with you my story of failure. I graduated near
the top of my class at the University of Western Ontario,
when I always had this stream of going to harvdusinschoo
and I applied for Harvard Business School and I got
in and I thought, you know, hey, I'm king whatever
because I got into Harvard Business School, which is a
dream of mine.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
The first marketing exam I funked. I was devastated.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
Here I was this guy that I did well at,
you know, in Toronto, in London, Ontario. At Western I
went to the big us of A and all of
a sudden was I admissions mistake? Was I one of
these people that couldn't hack it? I you know, I could.
I could compete well in Toronto and in London, but
I couldn't compete in the in the big United States
of America.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
I cried and I was devastated.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
And that day I decided that no, I was gonna
graduate the top of my class at Harvard. And I
wrote down George Baker Scholar, which is the big award
that they give out at Harvard. I put it on
my wall. I looked at it every day, several times
a day. I worked my butt off, and two years later,
I accomplished my objective. And you know what, I'm convinced
(36:56):
if I hadn't had that failure, I wouldn't have had
the success and I would have just sort of skated
through because I was probably a little bit overconfident and
I needed that kick in the pants. I needed to
be brought down, and that was really helpful for me.
So I think that, you know, failures, if you learn
from them, can be really healthy and really helpful.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
Absolutely. Absolutely. I've had a few, you know, incidents where
or events where you like, you know, I've walked away
like not getting a job for example, thinking you know, wow,
why didn't I get that job. That's another thing I
think people are finding really hard right now, so much
competition out there to get jobs. It's a tough one.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
We're going to take a break for some messages and
I want to come back in two minutes with Anna Palosy.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
And chat a little bit about the challenge for young.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
People today, because I think it's a big, huge challenge.
Stay with us, everybody back in two minutes.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
New Radio No Problem stream is live on SAGA ninety
sixty AM dot C.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Welcome back everyone to Brian Crombie Radio War. Got Anna
Paloozy with us tonight. She is in her rewirement stage
of life, semi retired after really quite an impressive career,
and she's a contributor contributing author to a book called
The Ripple Effect, which is about networking. And it's a
really interesting book because it's not sort of the how
(38:36):
to typical story by one individual. It's a dozen or
more stories narratives by different contributing authors about their own
experience with their own lives and their own networking. Anna,
you mentioned that you ran for student council, and you
mentioned that you knew everyone in Sue sam Marie and
that it was easy to see Simmary. I interviewed someone
(38:58):
recently that said, the biggest challenge that we've got right
now with youth unemployment that is like fifteen seventeen percent
and in some sectors of society twenty five percent. So
you know, youth unemployment is the highest it's been other
than sort of two other time periods in recent history.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
That one of the.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Challenges is people haven't got the experiences that you had
because they went through four years of high school or
four years of university and with COVID, they weren't interacting.
They didn't have an opportunity run for Students Council, or
if they did, it was on Zoom. They didn't have
an opportunity to join a club, they didn't play football,
they didn't interact at residences, you know, and all the
(39:40):
different things that you do when you're at university. They
had stayed home and they took classes again, you know.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Through the Internet.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
How critically important was it for you to have those
early experiences on Students Council? And I don't know, but
you know, did you play sports, did you join clubs,
did you socialize with people high school, in university.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
How critically important was that?
Speaker 2 (40:02):
And how do you think life would be different if
you were robbed at four years of that opportunity.
Speaker 4 (40:09):
I really feel for the young people today that have
gone through this because I just don't know what my life.
I don't even want to think about what my life
would be like if I didn't have those experiences, because
that's where I learned the most and where I grew
the most was during those times critically important just to
(40:30):
build your self confidence, Like how hard is it to
just build your confidence on a zoom call with people,
Like when you interact with people face to face at
university or wherever you have those common experiences. It's about
sharing those experiences. And I feel like they've been robbed
at that in so many ways. But now that COVID
(40:53):
and all of that is over, and people are now
even talking about going back in the office four days
a week or five days a week, you know, as
much as that hurts, I think young people and all
people need that. Again, it's not about just sitting at
home in your pajamas talking to people on that. You've
got to get out there, find reasons to get out
(41:15):
there and talk to people, to network with people and
not even use the network, just build relationships. Go out
and build relationships, whether it's at the gym, whether it's
a meetup group. There's so many organizations out there now
too that you can get involved with at school or
outside of your school environment to go and have those experiences,
(41:39):
because I think those experiences are more important than anything.
And like you said, it's going to be going bad.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
So if you were speaking to some people that were
just graduating or just graduated from university and that they
were challenged with, you know, following in your footsteps, what
would you tell them to do? How would you tell
them to get those experiences? Now they're twenty two years
old and they've had, you know, not the university experience
that you and I had because they didn't interact as often.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
What would you tell them to do?
Speaker 4 (42:07):
I would tell them to get dressed and go out
there and find ways to to not you can't have
the same experience, but connect with the people maybe that
you were on Zoom with, and say hey, let's all
get together and inform a you know, a group and
help each other. It's about bringing getting out there again,
(42:32):
get comfortable with being uncomfortable. It may not be what
you want to do, but you've got to get out
of the house. You've got to go and put yourself
out there somewhere find anything that will at least be
a foray into building some relationships, because I think the
hard part is when now that they're looking for jobs,
they haven't done what we did when I was in university.
(42:54):
And there are all kinds of things that you could
get to know people and connect and set and they
can't do that. They haven't done that. But there are
opportunities out there, and I think the world is starting
to see that we need more of that, and more
of those are coming. There's all kinds of you know,
free conferences or sessions that you can be part of
and also find one or two people, one or two
(43:16):
people you trust that are in the workforce. I don't
care if it's your parents, my kids use my network
all the time. It's you know, find a couple of
people that you know that can connect you. And it's
not about going and asking for a job. It's about
getting to know people, getting to understand what did they do,
how can you learn from them? And then those connections
(43:39):
start connecting. Oh well, you know what, now that you
mentioned that I have a friend that's in that sort
of business area that you want to get into, why
don't I connect you and you can have a coffee
and they can tell you about it. And it's just
that just one or two connections to get you going
to build those up.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
I found it.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
And charitable organizations, for profit organizations, political parties are great
ways to actually get to meet people and get to
meet older people, more senior people that can end up
being mentors and UH and and recommenders, references, connections for
for potential jobs or or just you know, really good
(44:21):
good advice. And so I think that you know, you
and I had that student council experience find the equivalent
in UH in the in the real world. You know,
going out to UH to two events just over and
over again isn't gonna be as successful as actually getting
involved in something where there is a common objective.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
And I think that's really helpful.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
The other thing that I have found is that too
many people just go to these different events and see
what happens.
Speaker 3 (44:52):
I think the.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Premeditated a little bit is really helpful. You know, you
look at who's coming, you think about who the potential
attend and these are and you strategize about who I
want to meet, and you send them a message ahead
of time saying, I see you're going to be at
the same event I'm going to be at.
Speaker 3 (45:07):
I'd love to connect with you. Maybe we can.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
Grab a coffee your drink together and chat about blah
blah blah whatever. It is so so thinking ahead of
time about who it is that's going to that event.
Speaker 3 (45:17):
And you're going to meet.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
Any suggestions you have on how to sort of yeah
thinks happen.
Speaker 4 (45:22):
Yeah. LinkedIn is a great place to to do that, right.
You can see where events are happening, and then if
you look at the event schedule and you know anapolutz
is going to be speaking on this, then you go
onto LinkedIn you send them a message, Hey, I'm coming
to the event. I'm really interested in what you're going
to you know, the topic that you're talking about. You know,
is there any chance for us to connect? I find
(45:44):
LinkedIn has just been one of the best social ways
to connect with people. But it's not just about online, right,
It's about getting connected with them, Like you said, strategizing
and then also you know, talking to other people who have,
like you said, might be a little harder if you
see somebody that you know that's going sort of Sometimes
(46:05):
it's comfortable to go in pairs or in a group
or women. Yeah, like have a wingman and go and
it's easier to sort of open up to other people
if you have somebody with you and you feel a
little bit self conscious about that. Find somebody who's you know,
I have friends that were so different and we help
each other in ways when we're in an uncomfortable situation,
(46:26):
and come and be my wing person for this, or
you know, come with me to this because I'm not
I'm not very comfortable that that's priceless because you have
somebody in your on your side, somebody who's there cheering
you on or helping you through that situation. But I
like yours about strategizing. I know. I tell my boys
if they're going for a job interview, they always tell
(46:47):
you who's going to interview. Go on LinkedIn, find out
who that person is, find out about their background, make
sure you know who they are before you get in there,
right so that so that you can connect in some way.
You can find nuggets. Sometimes bring it up somehow in
the interview, and I think that's critical.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
I can't tell you how many job interviews I have
done where people don't even know anything about the company,
let alone about me the interview interview were And so
I think, you know, ensuring that you know something about
the company and you've done research on who the interviewer is,
and probably who the president of the company is, and
or the person you're going to be reporting to.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
Such that you know something.
Speaker 2 (47:25):
One other suggestion I have that has worked for me,
and I think that one of the chapters, not your chapter,
but one of the other chapters in the book mentioned this.
Speaker 3 (47:33):
Is ask questions.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
And you know, if you're going to a session, get
up and ask a question. And if you don't ask
a question and the prepared questions, you know the public
time period, ask it of the speaker afterwards, because if
you ask a question, you know everyone will notice you,
and hopefully it's a good one. They'll come up to
you afterwards and say, good question, or why did you
(47:56):
ask that? Or blah blah blah. And even if you
don't get that opportunity to ask it in the public session,
going up and asking the speaker question afterwards, other people
will hear that question and we'll comment. You know, ultimately
getting a speaker spot and actually getting on stage and
being part of a panel or being part of the speakers,
I think is the key. But before you're at that
stage where you can be a speaker, get up and
(48:17):
ask a question.
Speaker 4 (48:19):
You know, you make me think of something that's so
important that I can't believe I didn't say before now.
But be curious. It's so important to be curious and that.
So I was at Metrolinks. We were hiring new grads
and it was my job to bring these ten We
were hiring ten new grads at once, and I said,
I'm not just interviewing people because you don't know in
(48:40):
an interview, like somebody can be really good in an interview,
but they're not so great ones to get them. So
we did this thing and it was during COVID, but
we did kind of a hackathon online where we brought
all the people that we got to the short shorter list,
not the short list, brought them in for a full
day and they had to get on on Zoom and
we had different breakout rooms, etc. We gave them a
(49:03):
problem to solve and we put people together who didn't
know each other from Adam right. So they were in
a room and there were five young people all competing
for the job. That was the hard part. They're all
competing for the same jobs, right to get in. And
we gave them a problem to solve. And then what
we did is we had observers come in very quietly
(49:25):
and we just watched how they behaved and with one another,
whether they showed leadership, whether they you know, how they
helped each other out, whether they were just concerned about themselves.
It was such a fascinating experiment, have you. And then
(49:46):
we brought them all together at the end of it
and they presented and it was really a great way
to go through. But we gave them the opportunity to
ask questions. And this one young lady who I had
given the highest score because I just watched her in action,
I thought, Wow, that's the kind of person I want
on my team. She was the one that asked the
(50:08):
first question, and then she asked another question. Is everybody
was really quiet and they didn't want to They really
didn't want to say much, right, They get kind of nervous.
And it was so funny because she was number one
on my list. I still keep in touch with her.
We hired her, and now a friend of mine hired
her at her place of work, and we talked about
(50:29):
it the other day and said, do you remember Mega.
It's because she asked that great question. She just stuck
in our minds. Yeah, she was curious, and I think
being curious is so important today.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
It's also something about being prepared and treat everyone with respect,
because they didn't realize that they were being interviewed by
an observer and a head of the formal interview. One
of the things that I've always done is I've asked
the receptionist or a executive assistant and to spend a
couple of minutes with the potential candidate and ask them
(51:04):
a couple of questions, and then I'll ask them, well, how.
Speaker 3 (51:07):
Is that interaction?
Speaker 2 (51:08):
Because if someone treats this receptionist to the executive assistant
well or poorly, that tells you a lot about whether
they're going to be in a good employee long term.
And this has been really interesting chatting with you. I
really appreciate it. Anna Pelusi is a contributing author to
a great book called The Ripple Effect, which I highly recommend.
Speaker 3 (51:26):
It.
Speaker 2 (51:26):
It's a really interesting book that's got numerous different co authors.
Mark Heally and David Tabucci are the prime authors, but
a bunch of different authors that have all sort of
shared their own experiences in their careers and with networking,
and so it's a great way to get up to
speed on what people have done that have worked and
hasn't worked. So I recommend it to you, and thanks
so much for joining us.
Speaker 4 (51:48):
Oh, thank you so much for having me. Brian really
appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (51:51):
That's our show for tonight, everybody. Thank you for joining.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
I remind you I'm on every mind you through Friday
at six o'clock on nine to sixty am. You can
stream me online at Triple W Saga dot C. My
podcasts and videos go off on my website Briancromby dot com,
on my YouTube channel, on podcast servers, and on social
media as soon as the radio show goes here. Have
a great weekend, everyone, Good night.
Speaker 1 (52:15):
Stream us live at SAGA nine sixty am dot C.
Speaker 4 (52:19):
A
The views expressed in the following program are those of
the participants and do not necessarily reflect the views of
Saga nine sixty am or its management.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Good easing everyone, and welcome to the Brian Cronbry Radio.
I've got Anna Polutzia with us tonight. She's a co
author or contributor to a really interesting book on networking
called The Ripple Effect, and it's actually now an Amazon
bestseller I understand, and it's doing quite well because I
think that we're all interested in how to do networking better,
(00:39):
because people are frustrated that, you know, they hear this
something you got to do, but they don't know how
to do it and they're uncomfortable with it. And so
having a book of stories of narratives of different people
and how they get out there and connect with people
and make their networks, make their personal relationships work for them,
I think is really was really interesting and critically important
(01:02):
to us in life, in careers and personally. Anna Polusi
is a former senior advisor to Metrolinx's Chief information officer.
She played a pivared role in their digital transformation. Previous
to Metrolinks, she held several different positions at Canadian Tire
throughout including chief Technolo, Chief of Staff to the Chief
Technology Officer, leader of a community of practice for citizen developers,
(01:25):
and a digital portfolio manager. Building a career in the
world of change management, communication and technology. Her extensive and
varied career has spent healthcare, education, retail, telecom and tran transportation.
She thinks that this is equipped not only with a
wealth of knowledge and experience, but has also fostered a
deep love for technology. Now she's entered into the next chapter,
(01:49):
which is semi retirement, and she effectively refers to it,
I like this as rewirement and has transitioned into the
role of an independent consultant, where her passion for driving
organization is six access through digital transformation continues to thrive.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Wow Anna, welcome to the show.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
So tell me why did you read a chapter for
a book about networking?
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Well, David Subucci, as you know, I think you've had
him on your show previously. I met David through the
Director's College at m Maaster University. He and I are
both graduates of the Director's College and we happened to
be on an innovation module together and we sat on
(02:33):
a bus or a van going to dinner and we
just kind of clicked. And this was several years ago,
and we've stayed in touch, and as you know, David's
written several books, and you know has has an extensive
career in politics. But we've stayed in touch. And he
and Mark Keeley, I guess, came up with this idea
that we should write this book about networking. But they
(02:54):
didn't want to just write it themselves. They wanted to
bring people in that they knew their network to share
their stories. So I David called me up one day
and said, Hey, Mark and I are thinking about writing
this book and I really want you to write a
chapter for it. And I'm like, pardon me, Like why me?
(03:15):
What are you talking about? He says, well, you know,
I know that you have a passion for networking, a
passion for building relationships, and I just want you to
tell your story. He said. Many of us, or most
of us in the book have come from very humble
means and have worked our way through and too successful careers,
and we want to share those stories. So I couldn't
(03:37):
say no to David. I bet you know what that's like?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Why did you develop a passion for networking, a passion
for relationships.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
I think I learned early in life that those relationships
are what get you through not only the good times,
but the hard times as well. And having a great
support network around even in high school, like I had
a you know, a circle of friends and we're still
friends to this day, where some of us are in
(04:06):
Toronto and we get together. And there's something about networking.
You learn so much from other people. You learn about
not just their careers and you know what they're skilled at,
but about their personal lives. You know their backgrounds, their culture,
and I just find that it enriches my life to
network with other people. It's it's just one of those
(04:29):
things and I love I know it sounds kind of,
you know, funny, but I love being around people. I
love talking to people and learning about them. And I
found that by doing that, I grew exponentially every time
I met somebody who added something really important to my life,
whether it was personally or professionally.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
You know, I'm interested by the use of the word
that you used and the word that you said, David
Tabuci used about a passion for you know, a lot of.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
People would say, oh, it's something I gotta.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Do or the drudgery of or the necess what's the
difference between what most people think about networking, which is
the necessity or the drudgery of something that they know
they have to do but don't really want to do,
versus your passion? How do you like? How do you
go from, you know, one point of view about the
(05:18):
importance of networking to another point of view, another change
of attitude.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
I think a lot of it has to do with
who you are in your background as well. There's one
of the ripple effect. One of David Lindsay writes his
chapters about introverts and networking. So I've always been an extrovert.
So for me, it's it's more I don't want to
say easy, but it's something that comes more naturally. For
a lot of people, it doesn't come naturally, and they
(05:43):
really have to work at it, and it's very uncomfortable
for even for me sometimes, Like I'm not saying that,
you know, I just go in somewhere and I can
network with anyone. I get intimidated by some people. I
feel a little bit, you know, imposter syndrome kind of
sets in and I'm thinking, you know, why does this
person want to talk to me, what do I have
(06:04):
to give or to the conversation. And I think a
lot of people find it very difficult, especially today, because
we don't have a lot of face to face interaction
like we used to when I grew up. Everything was
face to face when I grew up. And as I
say in my chapter in the book, I sat with
my dad and watched him every single day interact with
(06:26):
people that came into his shop and how he built
relationships with people. And I think a lot of it
is about, you know, caring about who that person is.
So it's not just about networking and collecting a name
of people for your network. And I think a lot
of people see it as work and something that they
(06:47):
have to do that maybe they're not comfortable with. And
so I think getting comfortable with something that's very uncomfortable
is where that comes from. It's hard for me to
talk about people who don't find it as aren't as
passionate about it as I am, but I understand it.
I've mentored and coached a lot of people that do
(07:09):
find it very difficult.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
So is the extrovertness that you've got versus the introvertness
that some people have, or the passion that you have
for meeting people and interacting with people, or your father's
desire to care for people. Is that genetic? Is that socialized?
Is it something that if you don't have it, you
can learn and achieve, Like, tell me a little bit
(07:33):
about where you think this desire to meet people and
connect with people comes from.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
I think some of it is innate. I don't think
it's genetic because my brother is the complete opposite of me.
He's an introvert, he doesn't like being around people. I
hope when he listens to this he doesn't want to
kill me. But he is very different from me, like
complete opposite. And we grew up in the same family
with the same parents and the same child, but we're
(08:00):
two very different people. But I think it is very
much a learned behavior. It is something that I have
seen other people when we've lost our jobs. For example,
when I worked. Now I'm going to date myself at
Nortel if you can remember Nortel many many years ago,
and a couple of friends of mine and we both
we all lost our job at the same time, and
(08:22):
they were like, oh God, now I got to start
reaching out to people and connecting with people. And you know,
one of the things I said to them is it's
really easy. Take the people that even if it's a
very small group, if you think about it, that's what
the ripple effect is. Connect with the people that make
you comfortable and ask them to connect you like, do
(08:43):
some introductions. We call them gateway friends or connectors where
you can go. But you have to take it. I
think a little bit. It's for someone who's not comfortable
with it. It takes time to overcome that sort of
reaching out. It's almost like cold calling, I guess in
some ways, right you're trying to reach out to people
(09:05):
and asking them questions or asking them for help or
whatever it could be. So it's something you have to
work at, but you can certainly learn to do that.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
One of the reasons why I wanted to meet you
was because I read the chapter your chapter in the
book and you talk about your father and you just
mentioned a couple of minutes ago that he cared for people.
A lot of people think about networking as you know,
how I'm going to meet people that I can use.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
It's transactional.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
It is because they can help me get a job
or they can give me a recommendation or a reference
or you know, a contract or something like that. So
it's more about the utilization of my network. Why and
how did your father want to care for people? He
wanted to do business with them, Why did he want
(09:54):
to care for them?
Speaker 4 (09:56):
Well, that's a really good question. I think I think
he knew just like I've learned and I learned from him,
is that if you're genuinely, if you're genuine with people
and you and you don't want to just use them,
but people know when you're being disingenuous. I think I
can tell of somebody just you know, wants to talk
(10:21):
to me for reasons like that that aren't don't include
the fact that they not care about me but know
me as a person. And I don't know. I think
it's just something that he was just the kind of
person that really did care about others, and so that
was his way of showing that. And that's a really
(10:44):
tough one because.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
But I think it's I think it's an important one
because I think that you know, caring for people, actually
wanting to have a person relationship with them, you know.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Wanting to help them.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Frankly, sometimes maybe even more than you want them to
help you. Is critical to what personal relationships are about
and are critical to what you know.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Really good networking is.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
I've always thought that networking is a bad term because
it suggests it's work and it's you know, I had
this one person who I interviewed who said, it's creating friends,
it's meeting new people. And if you changed your attitude
and thought that you know, you're going to go out
to meet new friends, you would change your whole perspective.
And I think that that's what your father got, and
that's what I think that you're all about, is that
(11:26):
you know you're you're meeting these people because you want
to get to know them, because you want to care
for them.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
Exactly, and you know what you learn from them. Like
I said earlier, you meet people, you learn so much
from them and they learn from you, and it's that
sort of give and take. And but some people do
see and it's unfortunate networking as I've got this list
of network I've got, you know, ten thousand people on LinkedIn,
But who are those people? Do they know you? Do?
(11:54):
They are they somebody you can reach out to and
you know at some point and say, hey, I need
your help. David is a great example. Like he and
I just met in a class. It wasn't anything, you know,
it was just a serendipitous kind of meeting and we started.
He said, hey, you know, give me your number, give
me this, and we got to be friends. And now
(12:19):
I've you know, my life has been so much richer
because of David, and I have a lot of people
in my life.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Do you have some best practices or suggestions for people
that want to do networking better?
Speaker 4 (12:33):
Well, you have to expose yourself to areas right. It's
not just about reaching out to people on LinkedIn, but
try to get some go to if you're at a conference,
for example, and they have a networking event, or at
work where there's people getting together to do something social
after work. These are important things to to really come
(12:55):
for you to participate in, because if you don't participate
in those and people think, oh, oh that they don't care,
they don't want to be part of it. But if
you participate in things like that and you open yourself up.
And one of the things, this is just a quick story,
is I was at a networking event and it was
it was a huge thing and everybody's got a glass
of wine, and you're walking around. And I was talking
(13:16):
to some people and we were standing kind of in
a semi circle, right, and somebody came up and said, oh,
I'm so glad that you all are open for new
people to join your conversation. And I said, I don't understand.
She said, well, look around, all the circles are closed,
she said, but your circle is open. And I felt
(13:37):
like comfortable, like you were inviting me in. So I
think it's really important to be conscious of the people
around you and present yourself as open. So the way
you talk to others, the way you you know, if
somebody's walking by you just smile at them, say hello,
they will be more inclined to, you know, to connect
(13:59):
with you and converse with you. My brother used to
just it drove him crazy because he says, you talked
to everybody, and I find a simple hello, how are you?
You know? In line at Starbucks. I've met a person
in line in Starbucks that became a friend. It's just
about putting yourself out there. You need to make sometimes
(14:21):
you need to make the first move. Or if somebody
does that to you and says hello, respond don't just
walk by. Make sure you try and connect. Look at
people in the eye when you're talking to them, be
genuine in your conversation. Find something that's gonna that you
can connect on. So let's say you and I David,
(14:42):
Brian call you David there, you know we met somewhere
and you find out you have a mutual friend, or
you know somebody or your politics right is something that
is something you connect on. Or you have a dog
and I have a dog, like it's just very small
things that can turn into something much more.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
You're saying that you've gone on to a different stage
now and it's rewirement. That sounds kind of fascinating. It's
an interesting term. We're going to take a break for
some messages and when we come back with Anna Palusi,
I want to ask her about semi retirement, about rewirement
and is there ageism, is it something she's excited about,
(15:24):
How did she how does she network in that stage
of career in life? Stay with us, everyone, this is
going to be interesting conversation about semi retirement.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Back in two.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Minutes stream us Live at SAGA nine six am dot C.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
A welcome back everyone to the Brian Conby Radio or
I've got Anna Palusy with us tonight. She's got an
interesting background where she's for Metrolinks, for Canadian Hire, for Nortel,
(16:03):
et cetera. Often in sort of it's interesting you got
you talk about chief of chief of staff rules. That
must have been an interesting rules that you've had where
you're sort of traffic cop and and coordinating all the
activities for some senior executives. But now you've said you've
gone on to a different chapter, a chapter in semi
(16:25):
retirement that you call rewirement. Tell me about what rewirement is,
and then also tell me, if you could, about what
networking like is in a rewirement stage.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
As somebody. I can't take credit for the rewirement. Somebody
on LinkedIn posted one day that they were in their
rewirement stage, and I thought, that's so true, because you
have to rewire your brain after all those years of
intense work and leadership and people depending on you for
all this stuff, and you know, working crazy hours and
(17:01):
not getting any sleep and traveling and doing all this,
and then all of a sudden you're like, hmm, so
now what do I do with myself? So your brain
has to rewire itself to say, Okay, I'm at a
different stage. Now what do I do with this time?
And that's why I like to call it rewirement, because
(17:21):
I really had to think about my life in a
totally different way. Now I didn't have that thing that
I got up for every single morning, and you know
that I got paid for to do, and then all
of a sudden, I'm here and I have all this
time on my hands, and what am I going to
(17:41):
do with that time? So I really had to rewire
my brain. So I said, okay, I can't just go
straight retirement because I'll drive myself crazy. So I decided, okay,
I'll do some part time sort of contract work and consulting.
I did some with a credit union, and it's usually
my My work is around organizational change. It's about leadership
(18:04):
and it's about advising executives and stuff like that. It
was just so I did a little bit for about
a year and a half and then I said, h okay,
I need a break. So I've taken a bit of
a break and I do sit and on boards, which
is a great way to network. By the way, if
you're one of those people you're in retirement and you
(18:26):
want to get on a not for profit board or
something like that. It's a great way to continue to
build your network and your community after when you're retired.
And so now I spend a lot of time to
be honest, is I want and I say this at
the end of my book, is that I've created such
an extensive network and I continue to create when the
(18:47):
Ripple Effect has exponentially expanded my network just from writing
this book, because we go places and we sign the book,
and you know, book signings and launches. And I didn't
know anybody but David when I started this, but then
I when we went to the launch, I did meet
a couple people. I realized we're at Director's College as well,
(19:09):
so that was kind of a thing that was in there.
So I volunteer my time with Saint Joseph's Healthcare. That's
something that I do in my you know, now that
I'm semi retired and I sit on their quality committee,
and I want to give back some ways to the
organization I'm getting involved with. And this just happened through
(19:32):
the Ripple Effect and leading some of the people through
an organization called Nactus, which is a network of post
secondary student leaders who are committed to building businesses that
are catalysts for positive change and social responsibility, and apparently
it's a worldwide I'm just getting into it now and
going out to Vancouver to do a workshop at the
(19:54):
University of British Columbia with a bunch of young university
and college students. So for me, retirement is about I
still network through the volunteering, through the things that I do,
and it's I think it's even more fulfilling now than
before because I also use my network to mentor others.
(20:16):
And I have a few younger people that call me up,
you know, if they're going for a job interview. Can
you help me do a mock interview? My kids hate
it when I do that, but I do it with
them all the time. Can you connect me with someone?
And I think you said something earlier that I should
have caught on too, as some people just think it's
collecting people because you want a job. That's how are
(20:37):
networking is. It's about, like I said, getting to know people.
Somebody said to you, creating a circle of friends or
a circle of influence. Going to those people and they
can help you. So it's not about Hey, Brian, you're
in my network, Can you hook me up with somebody
so I can find a job. A lot of times
it's just go have a coffee with somebody, say I'd
(20:58):
like to pick your brain. I like you to share
with me your experience. I don't know anybody that would
say really no to that. Oh, somebody wants to hear
about my life, somebody wants to learn from me. And
so I do some mentoring and helping young people through
job interviews, through difficulties at work, and just from mentoring
(21:18):
from a perspective of networking, because I have one young
lady who comes from Eastern Europe, and she's very introverted,
and she finds it very difficult. She's in a different
culture now, so a lot of times she'll call me
up and say, you know, why was at work today
and people were talking like they spent so much time
just talking about their private lives. And when I was
(21:41):
in Romania, you would never do that at work, right,
So I'm trying to help her understand that that's part
of the social aspect of work, you know, get into
those conversations, talk about your baking, talk about your dogs,
talk about gaming, whatever connects you to people. And because
you never know along the road. Even if you work
(22:02):
in a data team, somewhere down the road, you might
have to talk to people any you know, infrastructure team
or whatever in it or any other place. There's everything
is collaboration now. So don't stay in your bubble. Make
sure you expand outside of your bubble.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Some people have told me that they find it very
difficult when they retire and or when they're out of
work to network because maybe not the first question, but
one of the next questions is what do you do?
And so much, regrettably of our identity is built into
you know, what we do for a living.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
How do you deal with that? How do you how
do you answer that question?
Speaker 2 (22:39):
If if you were at a networking session and someone says, well,
what do you do?
Speaker 4 (22:43):
I make sure that I get involved in different activities.
So whether you know, I mean, I'm as lucky that
I'm writing a book, but I will I'll look online
and see if there's certain groups that are getting together
as something.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Sorry, I apologize.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
I answer the question in a networking session of what
what do you do with people? When people want you
know what people you would have said, well, I'm chief
of staff to the the blah blah blah at metrolinks
that would have been an easy answer, or I'm vice
president of something other world CEO or something. What what
do you say when you're retired?
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Or even more chill, when you're out of work? When
you know.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Lots of people say you know that the time when
it's almost most important in network, when you're at a work.
People have challenges networking because they say, I don't know
what to say. How do I say, well, I'm currently unemployed.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
How do you like? How do you how do you
deal with that?
Speaker 2 (23:36):
What do you say when someone comes up to you
at a cocktail party or at a networking event and says, well,
what do you do?
Speaker 3 (23:41):
What's your position? What's your job?
Speaker 4 (23:43):
And I say, well, I'm retired. I'm I've done my bit,
you know. I say that a lot of times I'll say,
you know, I've I've worked very hard in my life
and now is time for me to focus on different things,
and a lot of it to do with volunteering and
getting to know others through different groups.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
So just be authentic.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
Yeah, you have to be authentic. I mean there's just
no people know when you're not. Like, let's be honest.
People can tell when you're not being authentic. You're just
kind of going through the motions, like you know, I'm
supposed to be networking, so I'm just going to go
talk to this person and say hello, and and you know,
just it's a tough one, I think for people, especially
(24:30):
in retirement. Again, I have such a broad network. I
still stay in touch with people that I worked with,
so there's nothing wrong with that. Like, you know, even
though you're not working with those people anymore, you've built
such great relationships, stay in touch.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Is there agism?
Speaker 2 (24:48):
If you go to a networking event or a cocktail party,
do you find people not wanting to talk to you
because you're the older person, the retired person in the room.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
I have never felt that. I have never felt that.
In fact, I find that young people come up all
the time. Maybe others me personally I have. I don't
find that that's a problem for me. It might be
for others, and I can understand it, but I don't know.
It's just I have a lot of young people as
(25:17):
my friends as well, and maybe it's something to do
with that. And I love young people. Young people make
me feel young, so I'm attracted there's a bit of
a and I will go up to young people too.
But I find that the other night, when we were
at an event with David and them, young people came
up to us just as much as the older people
(25:38):
came up to us.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
You had really quite an impressive career.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
You've now written this chapter in this book about networking,
the Ripple Effect. If you had an opportunity to talk
to a twenty year old Anna Pelucy, what would you
tell your younger self.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
My younger self, don't be afraid, I think, you know,
I'll be honest. Growing up in Saint Marie, it was
very insular, like we were all. I was from an
immigrant family, so we lived kind of on the wrong
side of the tracks a little bit as well. But
so I had this whole insecurity right about about being
(26:17):
as good as other people, because you know, my parents
immigrated and we weren't really wealthy. And so I think
for a long time in my you know, my childhood
or when I was growing up, I just didn't feel
that I was as smart or important or you know,
(26:39):
established whatever as others. And I think if I had
told myself then, because I, you know, don't be afraid
because I was afraid. I you know, I did not
put myself out there a lot. It took a while
for me to get there. And I think that I
would tell myself just be yourself number one. Be yourself
(27:03):
and don't let other people dictate how you feel about yourself, right,
don't don't take what other people are making you feel
like just listen to your dad.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
It's surprising.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
It's surprising that you're saying this because it sounds like
now you're not afraid at all and you go out
and meet anybody. So was there a catalyst, a something
that switched you from being this twenty year old that
was afraid to this person that was not afraid and networked.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Like a professional. Was there a mentor? Was there an inspiration?
Was there a book? Was there a Tony Robbins session?
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Was there something that you did that was this catalyst
to this transformational change.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
I did learn a lot when I moved to Toronto.
I think that was huge for me because I didn't realize,
like when I was at home and su Saint Mary,
I knew everybody, everybody knew me. It was it was easy, right,
And then all of a sudden I got to Toronto,
and I, you know, luckily I had my brother and
my sister in law and people around me that introduced
(28:06):
me to others. But I think it was more when
I realized that if I wanted to survive in Toronto
and in a big city, I really needed to put
myself out there. And I think that's where my push
came from, because I felt like I could, like for
(28:26):
someone like me who was at home, I always had
tons of friends. I went to Toronto. It took me a
few years before I really developed a group of people
that I felt were my friends, because it was harder
to infiltrate, if you will, into people's lives in Toronto
that were really busy and stuff like that. So I
(28:47):
got a job at the public library there and it
just helped me open up to being around people, talking
to people and stuff like that. It just developed from there.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
If you knew everyone and had lots of friends at
Susan Marine and it was comfortable and easy, why did
you move to Toronto?
Speaker 3 (29:07):
Why take that risk?
Speaker 4 (29:09):
My father felt that there was so much more for
me than living in Sue Saint Marie and you know,
just going out with my friends and doing stuff. He
really encouraged me to get an education. He kept He
always told me, you're so smart. I had a brother
who's like part probably a genius in so many ways.
(29:29):
He was very intelligent. It was always Mario Mario. This,
Mario's so intelligent, you know. And my dad used to
say to me, yeah, but you're smart, and I like,
I didn't get the marks, but I would go, you're smart.
And now what I realized he was saying too, is
it was about emotional intelligence, right. It was about that
whole being around people and the ability to connect with
(29:51):
people and do things like that. That really came through
So my dad, you know, and I talk about him
all the time and miss him so dearly. He really
was my mentor. He helped me through whether when I
came to Toronto, he encouraged me, I will pay for
your education. I will do whatever it takes. I want
you to go there. I want you to be successful.
You have so much to give, make sure you give.
(30:14):
It was that positive reinforcement that just was always there
for me. And I can't say enough about that.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
But there's also something about not taking the easy way out.
It's not doing just what you're comfortable with, putting yourself
into a situation where you're going to be a little
bit challenged. And I think challenge is important in life
and in development, and so too many people always take
the easy root out, and it seems like taking the
tough route going to Toronto, going a place where you
(30:41):
didn't have friends and then making sure that you had
to try to create a network here in a brand
new city was a real catalyst.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
Yes, you have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable. I
think that's part of networking as well. For a lot
of people who don't find networking as much fun as
I do. You have to take yourself out of your
comfort zone, right. It's being comfortable with being being comfortable
with being uncomfortable and and that's something and I think
(31:09):
when you when you go and you challenge yourself, that's
where the growth really comes from. It's not from doing
the same old thing. You don't really grow that much.
But once you challenge yourself and you go out of
your comfort zone and you know it's even small baby steps,
and you achieve something, it's like, wow, I can do this.
And then you just keep going right and you keep moving,
(31:31):
and that's where you really really grow.
Speaker 5 (31:35):
Have you ever had a big failure, Yeah, because I
think that sometimes I think that sometimes the biggest growth
comes through comes through a failure, comes through a problem.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
And you know this madage about what doesn't kill you
makes you stronger, or you learn from failures, you never
learned from successes, and so yeah, I think one of
the things about success and career success in life is
you know, not encouraging failure, but also not being devastated
(32:10):
by failure, because failure is a learning experience.
Speaker 4 (32:12):
Yeah. So I was always used to getting my way
and succeeding a lot of times. And what I did,
and after I graduated from UFT, I really wanted to
go to teachers college. And this was back in the
late eighties, and at that time, the market like we
were saturated with teachers and trying to get into teachers
(32:35):
college was so difficult. And I was sure that I
was going to get in, right, I just confidence, like
I graduated, I'm going to get in. And I remember
when I got that letter that said no, thanks, You've
not been admitted to teachers College. I was devastated. I
think I cried for two days when I got that
(32:55):
because I just couldn't believe that that they said no,
and I went to the university and I went right
to the registrar's desk and said, look, I got this letter.
I want to understand why you didn't accept me. I
needed to understand the why. And they said, you know what,
we just have so many people right now that are applying.
(33:17):
The competition is incredible. And they said to me, well,
if you go back and get a master's degree, you'll
have a better chance of getting into teachers College. And
I'm like what. But they explained it to me and said,
don't take it personally. It's just that there's just so
many people applying for teachers college and there's so few
seats or you know places that we couldn't do it.
(33:38):
And I I just always, my whole life, I wanted
to be a teacher, and so this was a big
blow to me. But I just said, okay, well I'm
going to find a job now. I had no desire
to go for a master's degree at that point in
my life, and I just said, okay, that's fine. I'm
(33:59):
just going to go and figure out something else. And
that's when I started, you know, looking for jobs in
other areas and saw that there were opportunities where I
could work and I've done a lot of this where
I work in certain places for like Metrolinks and kinda
entire but there were opportunities there for me to do
some kind of teaching, whether it was mentorship, whether it
(34:22):
was getting up in front of new employees and talking
about the company. But there was ways to do that.
I never really realized it at the time, but I
just said, Okay, well this is not meant to be,
so I need to find another way in my life.
But it was I still can feel in my throat
how I felt when they said no, you're We're not
(34:43):
going to accept you into this program.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
So what did you learn from that?
Speaker 4 (34:48):
I learned that that you know what you don't always
get what you want. And that was a big lesson
for me because in Susse Marie, like I ran for
students Council and I was, you know, I succeeded. Whatever
I did, I seem to succeed. And this was the
first time that somebody just said no to me, you're
You're not and I felt like I was not good enough.
(35:11):
But then I had to realize it wasn't about me personally,
but the environment that I was in and the timing,
and at that time I learned timing is so important.
Look around what's going on in the world, and how
does that affect what you're going to do. And it
kind of opened my eyes to that that it's not
(35:31):
just about me. It's about my environment and what's going
on around me, and that I have to get used
to to being part of that as opposed to thinking
that that's going to become part of you know, that's
just going to change for me. I need to change
to a very part.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
It's a very powerful story. So let me share you,
share with you my story of failure. I graduated near
the top of my class at the University of Western Ontario,
when I always had this stream of going to harvdusinschoo
and I applied for Harvard Business School and I got
in and I thought, you know, hey, I'm king whatever
because I got into Harvard Business School, which is a
dream of mine.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
The first marketing exam I funked. I was devastated.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
Here I was this guy that I did well at,
you know, in Toronto, in London, Ontario. At Western I
went to the big us of A and all of
a sudden was I admissions mistake? Was I one of
these people that couldn't hack it? I you know, I could.
I could compete well in Toronto and in London, but
I couldn't compete in the in the big United States
of America.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
I cried and I was devastated.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
And that day I decided that no, I was gonna
graduate the top of my class at Harvard. And I
wrote down George Baker Scholar, which is the big award
that they give out at Harvard. I put it on
my wall. I looked at it every day, several times
a day. I worked my butt off, and two years later,
I accomplished my objective. And you know what, I'm convinced
(36:56):
if I hadn't had that failure, I wouldn't have had
the success and I would have just sort of skated
through because I was probably a little bit overconfident and
I needed that kick in the pants. I needed to
be brought down, and that was really helpful for me.
So I think that, you know, failures, if you learn
from them, can be really healthy and really helpful.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
Absolutely. Absolutely. I've had a few, you know, incidents where
or events where you like, you know, I've walked away
like not getting a job for example, thinking you know, wow,
why didn't I get that job. That's another thing I
think people are finding really hard right now, so much
competition out there to get jobs. It's a tough one.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
We're going to take a break for some messages and
I want to come back in two minutes with Anna Palosy.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
And chat a little bit about the challenge for young.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
People today, because I think it's a big, huge challenge.
Stay with us, everybody back in two minutes.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
New Radio No Problem stream is live on SAGA ninety
sixty AM dot C.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Welcome back everyone to Brian Crombie Radio War. Got Anna
Paloozy with us tonight. She is in her rewirement stage
of life, semi retired after really quite an impressive career,
and she's a contributor contributing author to a book called
The Ripple Effect, which is about networking. And it's a
really interesting book because it's not sort of the how
(38:36):
to typical story by one individual. It's a dozen or
more stories narratives by different contributing authors about their own
experience with their own lives and their own networking. Anna,
you mentioned that you ran for student council, and you
mentioned that you knew everyone in Sue sam Marie and
that it was easy to see Simmary. I interviewed someone
(38:58):
recently that said, the biggest challenge that we've got right
now with youth unemployment that is like fifteen seventeen percent
and in some sectors of society twenty five percent. So
you know, youth unemployment is the highest it's been other
than sort of two other time periods in recent history.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
That one of the.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Challenges is people haven't got the experiences that you had
because they went through four years of high school or
four years of university and with COVID, they weren't interacting.
They didn't have an opportunity run for Students Council, or
if they did, it was on Zoom. They didn't have
an opportunity to join a club, they didn't play football,
they didn't interact at residences, you know, and all the
(39:40):
different things that you do when you're at university. They
had stayed home and they took classes again, you know.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Through the Internet.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
How critically important was it for you to have those
early experiences on Students Council? And I don't know, but
you know, did you play sports, did you join clubs,
did you socialize with people high school, in university.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
How critically important was that?
Speaker 2 (40:02):
And how do you think life would be different if
you were robbed at four years of that opportunity.
Speaker 4 (40:09):
I really feel for the young people today that have
gone through this because I just don't know what my life.
I don't even want to think about what my life
would be like if I didn't have those experiences, because
that's where I learned the most and where I grew
the most was during those times critically important just to
(40:30):
build your self confidence, Like how hard is it to
just build your confidence on a zoom call with people,
Like when you interact with people face to face at
university or wherever you have those common experiences. It's about
sharing those experiences. And I feel like they've been robbed
at that in so many ways. But now that COVID
(40:53):
and all of that is over, and people are now
even talking about going back in the office four days
a week or five days a week, you know, as
much as that hurts, I think young people and all
people need that. Again, it's not about just sitting at
home in your pajamas talking to people on that. You've
got to get out there, find reasons to get out
(41:15):
there and talk to people, to network with people and
not even use the network, just build relationships. Go out
and build relationships, whether it's at the gym, whether it's
a meetup group. There's so many organizations out there now
too that you can get involved with at school or
outside of your school environment to go and have those experiences,
(41:39):
because I think those experiences are more important than anything.
And like you said, it's going to be going bad.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
So if you were speaking to some people that were
just graduating or just graduated from university and that they
were challenged with, you know, following in your footsteps, what
would you tell them to do? How would you tell
them to get those experiences? Now they're twenty two years
old and they've had, you know, not the university experience
that you and I had because they didn't interact as often.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
What would you tell them to do?
Speaker 4 (42:07):
I would tell them to get dressed and go out
there and find ways to to not you can't have
the same experience, but connect with the people maybe that
you were on Zoom with, and say hey, let's all
get together and inform a you know, a group and
help each other. It's about bringing getting out there again,
(42:32):
get comfortable with being uncomfortable. It may not be what
you want to do, but you've got to get out
of the house. You've got to go and put yourself
out there somewhere find anything that will at least be
a foray into building some relationships, because I think the
hard part is when now that they're looking for jobs,
they haven't done what we did when I was in university.
(42:54):
And there are all kinds of things that you could
get to know people and connect and set and they
can't do that. They haven't done that. But there are
opportunities out there, and I think the world is starting
to see that we need more of that, and more
of those are coming. There's all kinds of you know,
free conferences or sessions that you can be part of
and also find one or two people, one or two
(43:16):
people you trust that are in the workforce. I don't
care if it's your parents, my kids use my network
all the time. It's you know, find a couple of
people that you know that can connect you. And it's
not about going and asking for a job. It's about
getting to know people, getting to understand what did they do,
how can you learn from them? And then those connections
(43:39):
start connecting. Oh well, you know what, now that you
mentioned that I have a friend that's in that sort
of business area that you want to get into, why
don't I connect you and you can have a coffee
and they can tell you about it. And it's just
that just one or two connections to get you going
to build those up.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
I found it.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
And charitable organizations, for profit organizations, political parties are great
ways to actually get to meet people and get to
meet older people, more senior people that can end up
being mentors and UH and and recommenders, references, connections for
for potential jobs or or just you know, really good
(44:21):
good advice. And so I think that you know, you
and I had that student council experience find the equivalent
in UH in the in the real world. You know,
going out to UH to two events just over and
over again isn't gonna be as successful as actually getting
involved in something where there is a common objective.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
And I think that's really helpful.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
The other thing that I have found is that too
many people just go to these different events and see
what happens.
Speaker 3 (44:52):
I think the.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Premeditated a little bit is really helpful. You know, you
look at who's coming, you think about who the potential
attend and these are and you strategize about who I
want to meet, and you send them a message ahead
of time saying, I see you're going to be at
the same event I'm going to be at.
Speaker 3 (45:07):
I'd love to connect with you. Maybe we can.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
Grab a coffee your drink together and chat about blah
blah blah whatever. It is so so thinking ahead of
time about who it is that's going to that event.
Speaker 3 (45:17):
And you're going to meet.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
Any suggestions you have on how to sort of yeah
thinks happen.
Speaker 4 (45:22):
Yeah. LinkedIn is a great place to to do that, right.
You can see where events are happening, and then if
you look at the event schedule and you know anapolutz
is going to be speaking on this, then you go
onto LinkedIn you send them a message, Hey, I'm coming
to the event. I'm really interested in what you're going
to you know, the topic that you're talking about. You know,
is there any chance for us to connect? I find
(45:44):
LinkedIn has just been one of the best social ways
to connect with people. But it's not just about online, right,
It's about getting connected with them, Like you said, strategizing
and then also you know, talking to other people who have,
like you said, might be a little harder if you
see somebody that you know that's going sort of Sometimes
(46:05):
it's comfortable to go in pairs or in a group
or women. Yeah, like have a wingman and go and
it's easier to sort of open up to other people
if you have somebody with you and you feel a
little bit self conscious about that. Find somebody who's you know,
I have friends that were so different and we help
each other in ways when we're in an uncomfortable situation,
(46:26):
and come and be my wing person for this, or
you know, come with me to this because I'm not
I'm not very comfortable that that's priceless because you have
somebody in your on your side, somebody who's there cheering
you on or helping you through that situation. But I
like yours about strategizing. I know. I tell my boys
if they're going for a job interview, they always tell
(46:47):
you who's going to interview. Go on LinkedIn, find out
who that person is, find out about their background, make
sure you know who they are before you get in there,
right so that so that you can connect in some way.
You can find nuggets. Sometimes bring it up somehow in
the interview, and I think that's critical.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
I can't tell you how many job interviews I have
done where people don't even know anything about the company,
let alone about me the interview interview were And so
I think, you know, ensuring that you know something about
the company and you've done research on who the interviewer is,
and probably who the president of the company is, and
or the person you're going to be reporting to.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
Such that you know something.
Speaker 2 (47:25):
One other suggestion I have that has worked for me,
and I think that one of the chapters, not your chapter,
but one of the other chapters in the book mentioned this.
Speaker 3 (47:33):
Is ask questions.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
And you know, if you're going to a session, get
up and ask a question. And if you don't ask
a question and the prepared questions, you know the public
time period, ask it of the speaker afterwards, because if
you ask a question, you know everyone will notice you,
and hopefully it's a good one. They'll come up to
you afterwards and say, good question, or why did you
(47:56):
ask that? Or blah blah blah. And even if you
don't get that opportunity to ask it in the public session,
going up and asking the speaker question afterwards, other people
will hear that question and we'll comment. You know, ultimately
getting a speaker spot and actually getting on stage and
being part of a panel or being part of the speakers,
I think is the key. But before you're at that
stage where you can be a speaker, get up and
(48:17):
ask a question.
Speaker 4 (48:19):
You know, you make me think of something that's so
important that I can't believe I didn't say before now.
But be curious. It's so important to be curious and that.
So I was at Metrolinks. We were hiring new grads
and it was my job to bring these ten We
were hiring ten new grads at once, and I said,
I'm not just interviewing people because you don't know in
(48:40):
an interview, like somebody can be really good in an interview,
but they're not so great ones to get them. So
we did this thing and it was during COVID, but
we did kind of a hackathon online where we brought
all the people that we got to the short shorter list,
not the short list, brought them in for a full
day and they had to get on on Zoom and
we had different breakout rooms, etc. We gave them a
(49:03):
problem to solve and we put people together who didn't
know each other from Adam right. So they were in
a room and there were five young people all competing
for the job. That was the hard part. They're all
competing for the same jobs, right to get in. And
we gave them a problem to solve. And then what
we did is we had observers come in very quietly
(49:25):
and we just watched how they behaved and with one another,
whether they showed leadership, whether they you know, how they
helped each other out, whether they were just concerned about themselves.
It was such a fascinating experiment, have you. And then
(49:46):
we brought them all together at the end of it
and they presented and it was really a great way
to go through. But we gave them the opportunity to
ask questions. And this one young lady who I had
given the highest score because I just watched her in action,
I thought, Wow, that's the kind of person I want
on my team. She was the one that asked the
(50:08):
first question, and then she asked another question. Is everybody
was really quiet and they didn't want to They really
didn't want to say much, right, They get kind of nervous.
And it was so funny because she was number one
on my list. I still keep in touch with her.
We hired her, and now a friend of mine hired
her at her place of work, and we talked about
(50:29):
it the other day and said, do you remember Mega.
It's because she asked that great question. She just stuck
in our minds. Yeah, she was curious, and I think
being curious is so important today.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
It's also something about being prepared and treat everyone with respect,
because they didn't realize that they were being interviewed by
an observer and a head of the formal interview. One
of the things that I've always done is I've asked
the receptionist or a executive assistant and to spend a
couple of minutes with the potential candidate and ask them
(51:04):
a couple of questions, and then I'll ask them, well, how.
Speaker 3 (51:07):
Is that interaction?
Speaker 2 (51:08):
Because if someone treats this receptionist to the executive assistant
well or poorly, that tells you a lot about whether
they're going to be in a good employee long term.
And this has been really interesting chatting with you. I
really appreciate it. Anna Pelusi is a contributing author to
a great book called The Ripple Effect, which I highly recommend.
Speaker 3 (51:26):
It.
Speaker 2 (51:26):
It's a really interesting book that's got numerous different co authors.
Mark Heally and David Tabucci are the prime authors, but
a bunch of different authors that have all sort of
shared their own experiences in their careers and with networking,
and so it's a great way to get up to
speed on what people have done that have worked and
hasn't worked. So I recommend it to you, and thanks
so much for joining us.
Speaker 4 (51:48):
Oh, thank you so much for having me. Brian really
appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (51:51):
That's our show for tonight, everybody. Thank you for joining.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
I remind you I'm on every mind you through Friday
at six o'clock on nine to sixty am. You can
stream me online at Triple W Saga dot C. My
podcasts and videos go off on my website Briancromby dot com,
on my YouTube channel, on podcast servers, and on social
media as soon as the radio show goes here. Have
a great weekend, everyone, Good night.
Speaker 1 (52:15):
Stream us live at SAGA nine sixty am dot C.
Speaker 4 (52:19):
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