Broad Little Lies Ep. 1.6: "The Bad Mother"

Shandy, Amanda, and Colleen discuss HBO's "Big Little Lies," season 2, episode 6, The Bad Mother," including Shandy's big star turn as an extra on the episode!

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Episode Transcript

(00:51):
Hello, and welcome to Broad LittleEyes with a man of Shandy and Colleen.
My name is Colleen, my nameis Amanda, and I'm Shandy.
And we have a special guest thisweek. Everybody, it is Alice from
The Real Weird Sister. Hi.Yeah, And I feel like people might
be a little let down after thebuild up of last week, like we're
not going to reveal who the surpriseguest is. Well, just get their

(01:17):
fault because you are just you exclamationpoint smiley face. Yeah, yeah,
thank you. That's a nice wayof putting it. Yeah, I'm excited
that you're here. Yeah, metoo. This is gonna be fun.
Yeah. We are here to discussepisode six of season two of Big Little
Lies, called The Bad Mother.I am recording from a hotel room in
San Diego, so I have hotelInternet. If for some reason it's the

(01:42):
audio or something sounds choppy, that'swhy I do apologize in advance. But
I think we have a good amountof stuff to talk about tonight. Initial
reactions, guys, I felt likethings are coming around, Like after last
episode, I was kind of likewhere gonna go? And now I'm feeling
like I know where we're gonna go, and I'm feeling happy about it really,

(02:07):
especially by the very end of theepisode. Oh yeah, see,
oh yeah, that was a goodending. Finally very clear with where we're
going for the season finale. Ifeel like this whole episode was just like
a springboard for the season finale.Yeah for sure. Also, did you
guys notice how it said like thebig Little Lies finale, Like to me

(02:29):
that it was implying there's not goingto be a third season. I think
they just don't know yet, Okay. I saw an article saying that they're
probably like it's going to be toohard to get all the actresses together,
so they're doubtful that they will,but maybe we can hold out to hope.
I guess interesting. Well, Iwas wondering if the controversy from this

(02:50):
past week, which will definitely talkabout in the second half of the show,
would affect anything. I mean,part of me says no, because
money and but the halfass response fromHBO on the controversy also makes me think
that they're like so I honestly,after that, I'm kind of like,
yeah, I'm I'm ready for thisto be done. I mean, I

(03:13):
love the cast, and I lovethe story, and I really love the
first season, but I'm a littlebit like it leaves a bit of it.
It's kind of a bomber, right. I watched this episode from a
different lens, definitely. I alsowatched the episode in the dark while night
white noise was blasting so my soncould take a nap. And my notes
are I mean I spelt things wrongbecause like did I write an am or

(03:37):
an end here? So yeah,I definitely watched it from a different point
of view where but we'll talk aboutthat after let's get into Oh and before
we start, thank you to thePatroons. As always, you'd like to
be on Patreon, you can doso Patreon dot com, slash Jay and
Jack or go to Jane Jack dotcom click on the comic Patreon link at
the top of the page that benefitsus for this show, for the podcast

(04:00):
and the other shows on the networkwhich you should also check out. They
just did Stranger Things with Jay,Jack and Mike um, The Amazing Race
with Jack and Cindy, the remalCast After Dark, Jane Jack Show,
Owen and Bruce Barbecue, which isa Star Wars podcast, etcetera, etcetera,
etcetera. So please go check itout. I think I'm gonna jaan
Jack dot com, slash iTunes,and I'll bring you to the at the
page with all the shows. Okay, well, I guess without further Ado,

(04:24):
do you want to get into someepisode discussion. Yeah, let's do
it, all right. So westart off, and now we get Ranada's
point of view from the episode whereI think we were wondering last week if
we had seen it or not,and this was definitely Ranada's point of view.
So the episode opens with Nada andcloses with Nada, which we can

(04:47):
either talk about now or we canget to at the end, because there
was a lot of fucks, ohmy god, Oh my god. So
this is something that I didn't sayearlier. I alluded to in an earlier
episode because again I haven't read thebook, but I had been told that
Gordon has an affair nanny, soI didn't want to say. I didn't

(05:10):
know if that would come up ornot. I didn't know if they would
use it. Um, I rememberyou did to it? Yeah, when
they did, And for all ofthe what five minutes we're not ahead on
screen this episode, that wasn't sittingin a courtroom looking concerned she what had
about seventy five fucks the queen ofthe car seat rant? Oh, I

(05:34):
got what she needs? Happened inthe car? What does she what?
Does she call him a fuck turdor something? And she shoves the tissues
in his mouth? So that wasso random. I mean I get that
she's mad, but like, Idon't know where she got that fis like,
was that in the script or wasthat like maybe that was like an

(05:57):
improv moment? Yeah? Right,I just I feel like I need to
know because like, what else canyou do in that moment that's not also
going to endanger yourself? Yeah,because if you like grab the steering wheel
and like veer off the roth,you're in trouble too, right. I
really would love, you know,a gift of that. Yeah, I
bet. I bet there's somebody who'smade one already. I'm sure there is.

(06:20):
But yeah, that was it wasdefinitely something else. And when did
she say shut the fuck up forthe rest of your fucking fucked up life
or something like? Yeah. Soit's kind of interesting because in the book,
m Colleen and Amanda. Have youguys read the book? I don't
remember I read the first chapter.I've had a really like weird experience with

(06:40):
Big Little Eyes because I watched thefirst season last year. I hadn't read
the book at that point. Thenthis summer, like a few weeks ago,
so my sister Martha, Um,she's she read the book and she
really liked it, so she wasalways like pressuring me to read it.
So I finally read the book thissummer. And then now I've been watching
the second season, and now I'mlike, I can't remember what was in
the first season and what was inthe book, because they do change a

(07:03):
fair amount, I think. Butnow I've read the book so much more
recently that it's like I don't rememberthat it was that it was cut,
you know. So it's been areally weird experience. But in the book
that the thing with the nanny definitelycomes into play, but it's, um,
it's much more kind of in thebackground because Nada is not really I

(07:26):
mean, she's she's a sort ofa main character, but she doesn't you
don't ever get her perspective really,which in the first season you don't either.
Yeah. Yeah, So and she'sdefinitely like I mean, she's sort
of the villain. I guess,like she is in the show, but
you just kind of hear about stuffthrough the grapevine, so like you hear
about this affair through various people.So that's why I think it was,

(07:48):
you know, pretty easy for themto cut out last season. But right,
but now that I think that theymight be setting up stuff for a
third season. Though I don't thinkwhatever revelation we're going to get during Mary
Louise's testimony next week is going tobe resolved in one episode, I think,
and I don't think that the nannything is going to be resolved in

(08:09):
one episode. I do think thatthey're setting it up in case they can
get a third season or just toleave the viewer to their own imagination and
what they think happens, which iskind of like what they did at the
end of the first season, right, like you kind of leave it open
ended so you could return if youwanted to, but also like it's the
fun game of the audience trying towhat they imagine happens. Yeah, I

(08:31):
feel like wherever they end up,like closing out the series for good,
like it will be sort of openended, like you're saying, because I
think they'll want to have it kindof open to interpretation. Did anybody catch
that Nada called her mat a lineagain, packed mat a line. It's

(08:52):
such a contrast. Now it's sofunny that we didn't notice it at all
the first time, and now it'sjust like, oh my god. But
also other fun thing about Nato itis going back to last episode of how
she was talking about you know,the men, and Ronado was the one
that said, like, you know, they cheat on us, they do
this, they do that, andday yeah, yeah, and we stay.

(09:13):
And it was interesting because at thatpoint she was just of course talking
about Gordon like having lost their familyfortune. But now there's more sort of
ironic, right, and will stay? Right? The big question will she
stay? I don't really see what'sin it for her to stick with him.
It seems like a real loser.Yeah, oh she calls him a
fucking fuck shit. I had tolook it up. I don't really like

(09:35):
I feel like that relationship just liketurned so quickly, like they were fine
and then all of a sudden likeheat just be the worst ever. I'm
kind of bummed too, because Iwas hoping that, you know, Ranada
and Gordon could have not a happyending, but at least we would see,
just like with Ed and Madaline,some kind of like meeting, that

(09:56):
meeting of the minds. What amI trying to say, like reconciliation with
personal growth both and because especially lastlast episode, we saw Gordon watching her
have fun, like finally, likeyou know, let go and relax with
Amabella in the pool. So Iwas hoping for that kind of ending for
Nata in the end. But Imean that was silly because of course it's
not all about money, except itis, but sometimes it isn't right well,

(10:22):
and I feel like before we didhave this really interesting thing where,
you know, we talked about howit was like maybe a more like nuanced
portrayal of human relationships where it wasn'tso black and white like he did the
obvious fuck up, but like shealso had her own stuff that he kind
of called her out on, andso in that way, I really liked

(10:43):
how they showed that. But nowit's like, I mean, he's really
piling on the fuck ups. Yeah, no kidding, he probably better without
him, Yeah, strong ceo,boss bitch. She needs to kick him
to the curb and ultimately be happierwhen she reclaims her richness. Yeah,
on her own terms, I willnot not be rich. She'd have a

(11:07):
better chance of achieving that without hisad. Yeah, although I have to
say it, maybe this was foreshadowing, but it's her telling the nanny the
first time, like, we'll payyou back, when we will hire you
back, we'll get it rich again. It seemed a lot sadder in like
the not pathetic way, but inthe like sadder way than her previous declarations
that she was going to be richagain. Seventy six thousand dollars for severance

(11:31):
pay seemed really like that's pretty good. I mean, yeah, right,
I mean I get that they're richand they probably should pay her that much,
but like, I mean, Iguess they were rich, but like
that that's a lot. I'm like, okay, plus what is it one
hundred and thirty thousand and struct beliefthat that was so awkward? So awkward

(11:52):
they Yeah, it's just like likewe all get the reference and that's literally
illegal, yeah court, you knowthey're in bankruptcy court. Yeah, that
seems weird that she would be ableto like actually have a case there for
that services rendered for like that prostitution. I'd rather not saying, but yeah,

(12:22):
like she should be compensated for.I'm not saying that, I'm not
saying the opposite. I'm just saying, like it's technically illegal. Yeah,
that just doesn't make sense how she'ssaying that like publicly in court and like
somehow that's that she seems to havea case, right, the judge is
just gonna let her this money.Yes, it's like such a specific amount
of money. So it like leadsme to think, like, did her
and Gordon talk about that ask forthis none? Because she was like I

(12:46):
was promised that compensation. Like whatIt's like huh me, I think we've
established that Gordon is you know,that's the greatest. So not only he's
like, you couldn't even pay her, like, as he went on,
wouldn't have money exactly exactly. Hey, you know that fancy train set doesn't

(13:11):
pay for itself. That's true,especially if he totally tried to under undervalue
it too. Yeah. Alright,moving on to Jane Um. She confriends
Corey Um. He said he wasordered in for questioning. Do we believe
him? Yeah? I thought thatwas a little bit of a like,

(13:31):
Okay, they really built that uplast week and then now it's turned out
to be a little bit lame.But okay. Yeah, by the way,
I have to say that I'm teamI do not like the bangs.
I don't know. Yeah, that'sfine. I'm outnumbered. I'm used to
it, all right. Plus maybeit would have been better if I feel

(13:54):
like I don't like the dark haireither, Like I think it's the combination
of the two. So y combinationof the two that like help it work.
Okay, well, we'll have toagree to disagree. I will in
your defense, Sandy, it isgrowing on me. I still say that
she would look better with a differentlook, but I don't hate it quite

(14:15):
as much as I did at thebeginning. It was pretty shocking at the
beginning. It was like a realmoment of that I really had to come
to terms with. The hair hassettled on her head. It's a little
more comfortable with itself, and it'sfeeling a little better. It's growing out,
is what you're saying. So Janedid not have a whole lot of

(14:37):
year of this episode, but wedid get that big confrontation with Mary Louise
where she says, you know,we're all I see someone struggling. We're
all struggling, and then Mary Louisejust I mean, I got chills when
she delivered this whole thing where shewas like, are you struggling Jane?
You know? Kid away? Next? Yeah, I know. I was

(14:58):
like, don't say anything, justoh way, don't ever talk to her?
Right? How can nobody has learnedthis yet, Madeleine renata Jane?
Nobody has noticed the like learned tonot talk to her. Bonnie's the only
smart one here, but I wouldnotice that. I feel like this is
the first time that we've seen MaryLouise kind of run away a little bit
by shutting the door. True.I feel like every interaction that she has

(15:22):
had in this way where she flipsit around, she always comes out like
the clear winner, and I feellike in this case, it felt like
she was running away by shutting thedoor on Jane. Yeah. I don't
think that she was right. Ithink that maybe she does want to has
plans for Jane, but I don'tthink she had plane through Jane and eminently
maybe ay So Ziggy said that shebought a gun and then you know,

(15:46):
Badass was like, you know what, I came here to find a good
man who had a bad night,but maybe I would have shot him.
If I had gotten the damn chanceto like that was that was awesome.
I don't know if it was greatto lose your cool in front of Mary
Louise. Yeah, he's a crazyperson. That was the bad thing.

(16:07):
But yeah, I mean good forJane for you know, being honest,
I guess right, or just realangry, but I will like, I
don't know, I got chills duringthat whole scene. She was like,
are you struggling? I just Idon't know. I got her face it's
like yeah, yes, and thenlike you're saying, Amanda, but she
did. Even though she was likegaming the upper hand, she did then

(16:30):
kind of like flee from it.And usually it's her actually going into somebody
else's space and taking that up,but here she's like retreating. But once
she closed the door and turned around, the look on her face was just
psycho. Yes, yes, justin general, Mary Louise looks this episode,

(16:52):
I feel like she didn't have aton of dialogue but acted the crap
out of every scene she was in, as Meryl Streep does, as Streep
does. I mean, should webe surprised by that? No? I
suppose not really, but I've neverbeen so angry at a character that said
so little. Oh yeah, she'sreally she's really infuriating. I was terrified
and more terrified by somebody just yeah, all the all the courtroom stuff.

(17:18):
Oh man, so the courtroom stuff. Right, So I think that we
had two Let's start with Actually,let's go to Madeline Martha McKenzie of it
all first, because I think wehad two big storylines this episode. Everything
else was kind of background noise,and that would be the Celeste courtroom stuff
and Bonnie and her mom. SoEd gets propositioned because Tory apparently has a

(17:42):
masturbation diary and a bucket list andhe's on bolth So that's cool. I
hate the storyline. It seems sounnecessary, I utterly pointless. We could
have had more sh if we didn'thave to crap up. Well yeah,

(18:03):
no kidding. Going back to thecontroversy with the director that we're going to
talk about after this, now itmakes more sense that they're trying to push
this Ed Tory thing on us insmall doses. Oh it's just more sandy,
right, yep. That's literally allwe wanted. It would have redeemed

(18:26):
everything, it would happen. Itwould have saved saved the whole season really,
so I guess I wasn't totally clear, Like Ed did not take her
up on this offer, right,I did not? To me, it
did not appear that way. Yeah, and it was awkward because like we
didn't get to see him like sayno or yes, so we don't know
they either confirmed nor denied it.But so then, what's the point of

(18:48):
that. Is that going to comeback next week? Or is that just
in there randomly? I bet it'sin there randomly because of whatever was going
on behind the scenes. And ifthat was going to be a thing,
I wouldn't be surprised if that wasa thing that came back for season three.
Yeah, I could see that becauseif Ed and Madeline, it looks
like so, uh, you know, she's she's again struggling and doing some

(19:11):
real time confessing. But again Ididn't like that she was like, I
promise I won't make you know,I'll make different mistakes or something. To
me, it was awkwardly worded,but um whatever. By the end of
the episode, she's dancing around totears her fears? Was it? It's
a Patti Smith cover of Tears forFear. Okay, so she's dancing around

(19:33):
to that in her wedding dress buthalf zipped because it doesn't fit anymore.
I think it's a nice touch.Yeah exactly. I was actually thinking like,
oh, wow, she still fitsinto her wedding dress. And then
they said that. I was like, Okay, that makes more sense,
y'all. It kind of made methink of Shandy actually, because I Shandy
randomly would wear her wedding dresses tocollege. That's true to class in college.

(20:00):
I still fit because it's a summerdress. That was one of my
favorite stories with Shandy was like,one time she came to class and I'm
like, oh, I like yourdress. It's cute, and she's like,
thanks, it's my wedding dress andit is like a sun dress.
But it is really cute. Isee pictures of it in the picture you

(20:21):
post for your anniversary every year youguys getting married. Thanks, it is
pretty very cute. Cool. Sodo we think that so she just wants
to be trusted again? And hesaid that was the closest that she came.
Do we think that they're going tobe on at least on a positive,
on the up and enough path nextweekend? Next week? Rather?

(20:44):
I think so. Yeah, Ithink they're definitely going towards a resolution here.
Yeah, it kind of makes mewonder, like what was the whole
point of that whole thing? Butwhatever, what the tory thing well and
the metal and cheating thing like,it just kind of felt. Actually,
I really think that the storyline atShandy, like that whole thing that was

(21:04):
cut. I think that that wasprobably a bigger deal in Andrea Arnold's version.
Yeah, I think you're right,as some I read a bunch of
articles about that, and somebody pointedout that all of the episodes have run
like a tight forty to forty fiveminute that there's been a lot they've been

(21:25):
a lot shorter than they usually thanthey were in season one, where you
know how HBO shows, they canbe anywhere from like forty minutes to an
hour or something plus, where allof them were pretty tightly. I have
noticed that they've been shorter because Ikeep on thinking like, oh, there's
another ten minutes, and then it'slike ten minutes of credits. Yes,

(21:48):
so I'm getting caught off guard byby it every week. So yes,
because I've been rewatching right before werecord, and they always think that I'm
gonna like just go up to wherewe're gonna start, and then I always
got like fifteen minutes left, andI'm like another third episode. So and
I wonder if that's part of whateverwas going on behind the scenes. So

(22:12):
what do you want to talk about? You guys? Your pick? So?
Did I miss anything on the othercharacters? Was there anything? There
wasn't too much to talk about withthem this week? Not too much.
I was curious your guys's thoughts onthe whole cory of it all. Oh,
yes, we kind of skipped overthis time. Yeah. Do we
think he's like creepy or do wethink his intentions are are honest? I

(22:37):
think his intentions are honest. Mytheory from last week did not pan out,
and I do believe that he wasjust called in. I think he's
just too boring for it to beanything else. And I think it's also
you know, they're like Jane obviouslyhas trust issues with men for very good
reason, and I think when shesees or when she finds out that he

(22:59):
has gone into the police station,um, you know, I think it's
gonna really affect those trust issues.And we saw that they're like she's like
not seeing him, and he keepslike following her, which is maybe getting
into the creepy thing. But Ithink that they're trying to make that just
like an innocent boy type thing.But in my notes, one of the
things I had written was like,when a rape survivor tells you that they

(23:22):
need space, fucking give them space, like stop following them, right anyone,
but like right, yeah, Idon't let go and find them on
the beach and like talk to theirkid and like, But I mean I
think that I think that that's intendedas just like a sort of like,
oh, he's an innocent, goodguy, which is part of the problem

(23:45):
of maybe how relationships are often portrayedin the first place. But I don't
think he's meant to be creepy,right. That's how I took it too,
that like the part of me reallyjust wanted Jane to have a happy
ending and to end up with likea good guy. But then on second
watch, it is inherently a bitcreepy that he just keeps showing up and

(24:10):
he makes a comment when they're atthis at the aquarium where he's like,
oh, you know, you guyswant to see something prickly it's just to
the left of me, just kidding, And I'm like it didn't That didn't
catch me the first watch, andon the second watch, I'm like,
m does a nice guy, Likethat's kind of a really off color joke,
Like why would you say that?That's so funny. That's a kind

(24:32):
of joke that um Jack would makeabout and anybody that listens to the Rembo
cast after dark that's listening to thisnow, there's a total kind of joke
that he would make to show affectionand riff on his wife. And Jay
will sometimes make those kind of jokesat me, and I'll look at him
and be like, are you kiddingme? Feel like it depends on the

(24:52):
context, Like I feel like inthat particular context, it was kind of
weird. But yeah, because hetotally misreddit like no knowing her background that
she's a rape survivor, Like,you can't make those kind of jokes and
expect that to turn out well foryou, right, so when you're trying
to like woo the person back,Yeah, right, Like and maybe that

(25:14):
is kind of why did he switchkind of gears kind of tones for the
rest of the episode, Like,Oh, I can't I can't. Okay,
she really clearly joking around, cheasingfor affection, not going to work
slam the brakes strike. I don'tknow, because then when he went and
like found her on the beach,he made some comment that was basically like,
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna giveup on you. I'm not gonna

(25:37):
let you go. I'm not wantingYeah, I'm not walking to which is
like, on the one hand,you can take that as like, oh,
he's fighting for her, that's howwe're taught to think about that.
On the other hand, again,it's like if she's telling you no fucking
hear the no except the noble,Well, I could kind of see it
where like maybe if they keep goingwith season three, then maybe he will
kind of turn take a weird turnand be kind of more of a bad

(25:59):
guy. But if if they're goingto end on season two, then they
can kind of end it with like, oh, she did end up with
this really good guy, you knowwhat I mean. Honestly, I'm not
unconvinced that he's not a cop orhe's not an informant. Hmm, that's
true. They did breeze by itawful quick. Yeah, they did and
uh again not I'm I'm all aboutthe drama. And if this really is

(26:23):
you know, White Lady telenovela,then it's not bad theory. Yeah,
it's possible either way. I justthink like, basically, nobody is into
Corey, so just wasn't wasn't thehot waiter into her last season? Yeah?
Well that's where I was confused,because that was definitely part of a

(26:47):
big part of the book was thatthe waiter and her had a kind of
had a thing. Yeah, Andso then I was like, wait,
is this the waiter? Like Ibecause yeah, like I said, I
went out of order, so Icouldn't remember where Corey came from. And
what happened to the waiter, Well, he came from nowhere, and Tom
the waiter just disappeared. I meanthey did, like they went on a

(27:07):
proper date and everything last season,even in the TV show. Yeah,
they couldn't renew his contracting us.So and then when would Jane start working
at the aquarium just in season two? Right? Yeah, because she did
bookkeeping lests. Yeah, so likewhat I don't understand and she somehow,
she somehow became qualified enough to landa job at the aquarium. Well,
and to like be teaching lessons andstuff. It's not like she's doing some

(27:30):
sort of like maintenance work there orsomething. I know. I originally I
thought she was like keeping their books. Yeah, well that would make a
lot more sense also keeping their books. Bad joke. Guy. She took
a high school ap marine biology class. She's qualified leave alone, right,

(27:53):
right, there's very little competition.I'm sure that one of the world's dat
Yeah, you know, score onthe furbol part of your SA exactly exactly.
She knew the difference between a starfishand a jellyfish. She was fine,

(28:15):
all right. Does anybody else haveanything about the Jane Corey situations.
We'll see where it ends up nextweek. But yeah, it's so funny
that Chany and I both are kindof like Corey is weird, but we
have totally different opinions. Why true, True, I can see your argument,
and honestly, if it happens,I won't be like completely completely surprised.

(28:40):
I just think he's too boring forthat. Okay, I'm totally gonna
regret opening this can of worms.Um, But how would we feel if
all this is brushed off? Becausein the first episode they present that or
the second episode that Corey has Asperger'shuh. Yeah, well he asked her

(29:03):
if she was on the spectrum,doesn't he say I am too? Well,
he know, he said like,oh, I probably am too a
little bit or something like. Itwas kind of a weird interaction. That
interaction either is setting up that heis an informant and he might be a
little weird, or uh, heis somewhere on the spectrum and now there

(29:23):
they would be having all those awkwardstuff explained away because of that. How
would we feel about that? That'skind of a key two, right,
Yeah, I think that would beof HBO. Yeah, like poor unnecessary
storytelling. Agreed, Agreed. ButI could also see that being something that

(29:45):
was a victim of the weird editingof the season. Yeah, could be
in either way, even if thatnever comes up again. That interaction was
really weird, and I do kindof wonder, like how people who actually
are on the spectrum feel about thatcom station. But yeah, it was
sort of a I don't know,it was not in good taste. I
mean, it's something that you couldsee realistically happening in the real world,

(30:08):
like people do say stuff like that, but it's not really a model conversation
that they should be having on TV. I feel like, right, and
it doesn't really put it on better, Like, it doesn't put a point
in the quarries a nice good guyright, true, well it could,
It just doesn't put a point inthat they're handling the storyline with great writing.

(30:30):
Come on, But if anybody outthere is on the spectrum, let
us know how you feel about thatfacility. Yeah. I thought it was
a weird, that it was weird, and I wondered at some point if
while you were talking Shandy, ifany point in the storyline there was something
in which that was you know,kind of brought up. Yeah, because

(30:52):
it does beg the question of whywhy was that in there at all?
Right? Yea, right out ofmy mind. I had forgotten all about
it. I think I had likepushed it out of my mind because that
I had walt about it. Yeah, No, don't like it, goodbye?
Yep? Yeah all right. SoCeleste, Oh yeah didn't she She

(31:15):
had She was like, here's myamy consideration episode. So Mary fucking Louise
had her followed, yes, whichmeans she was planning the ship beforehand,
the ship from the beginning. Yeah, shame on us for not suspecting this.

(31:36):
Like as soon as it went downthat way, it's like, oh,
of course she's crazy. Of courseshe was celast and build a case
as as iron tightly as she could. Uh huh right. And I think
that that kind of maybe pushes itmore like a hundred points in the possessive
crazy category versus just concerned for thekids und totally dred totally and I just

(32:01):
I mean, I did not likehow that was supposed to be used against
Celeste as like, oh, she'sa terrible mother because she's like hooked up
with some guys since her husband died, Like what I thought that was all
on very bad taste on the partof the lawyer. And I did wonder,
like does that happen? Because Icould see it, like, oh

(32:22):
I could see that happening. Umthe one so I wrote down, what
does her sexual encounters of anything todo with it? The only thing that
would I would think they would considerto be a problem would be the ones
where the kids were at home,because then oh, she brought a strange
person into the house. But allthe other ones like in a public restroom

(32:44):
and whatever else that that has nothingto do with it also like their game.
I mean it is sort of astrange person and stuff, but like,
I don't know, I mean,people do that all the time.
It's not like she's the only personwho's like ever made a judgment call like
that, you know what, iantely, But I think the fact that she
was on ambien and whatever else wasshe was doing it is what pushed it

(33:07):
over the edge is risky behavior,right, Yeah, the ambien was not
definitely not great, but like,yeah there was something, No, it
was not there's some major slut shamming. And the other thing that I didn't
like from the judge was when sheacknowledges that Perry was abusive, yeah,

(33:28):
and acknowledges that she understands that alot of people stay with their abusers,
but then dared to ask her whydid you stay? Right, She's like,
I get it, I totally understandlike that a lot of victims stay
with her abusers, but why didyou do that? That was weird?
Yeah, yeah, that was weird. But to play devil's advocate, what

(33:49):
if she was giving Celeste a chanceto redeem herself in a way because she
understood the psychology behind abuse and shewas like, get it out there.
Here's your question to get out therefor public record. Why you stay right?
And she did nail. That's totallyhow I read it, calling it
right, Yeah, I could seean opportunity to clarify what that looked like

(34:14):
for her, not to shame her, to give her an opportunity to speak
her side of the story. Right. Well, no, I that's a
good point. That could definitely bewhat it was. But I kind of
I wanted to know, like whatthe judge's verdict was going to be before
Celeste was like, oh no,I have to bring in a witness.
I'm like, well, what wasthe verdict going to be? Because maybe
it was going to be on yourside anyway? Right right? Which again,

(34:37):
okay, so here's my main grapewith this episode, right was I
know that it's a drama, Iknow it's television. I know it's supposed
to entertain us, but fucking MaryLouise should have been called to testify without
Celestue bringing it up at the end, like yeah, because how are they
supposed to say, like, okay, well maybe they've made a decision now

(34:59):
that he's unfit to have her kidsor something, But like how do they
know that she's that's Mary Louise isfit? Yeah, no, woman has
I don't know why. And hersecond son who just passed away was a
fucking rapist and abuser right, likehe's in the best of boys here,

(35:22):
good track record here, yeah yeah. Um. I did wonder at the
hearing also, not specifically to dowith like Mary Louise, but her lawyer
who had that whole simulation of likethis is what it would have looked like
if you know, somebody fell onthe stairs this with that force, And

(35:43):
I was kind of like, howdid the police not do that? Well?
No, I was like, howdo you how does this random lawyer
have that? And not well didhe get it from the police, Like
wait, it's not like they calledin an expert physics witness, like he
could have just been saying that likehe has. I don't under again,
why the objection wasn't sustained that theythrew all that stuff in there without giving

(36:06):
any kind of preparation to the otherside, which I guess maybe it's different
in civil versus criminal, Like youknow, civil court might have different rules
where you can spring anything at thelast minute instead of like you know,
giving both sides chance, but itstill feels so dirty. Well, but
that's not a civil she was.He was accusing her of a fucking crime.

(36:29):
Yeah, like she should have saidlike objection because this is this is
not what she's on trial for.Now she's on trial for, and he
like he doesn't have the right to. I mean, this whole thing was
just I know, and as Ikept reminding myself, like, this is
drama, this is TV. Youknow, go with it. It's fine.

(36:50):
And I did go with it.But when because okay, so the
judge says you're going to testify firstthe last so I thought, oh,
okay, cool, Mary Louise willtestify probably next episode. This episode will
be all Celeste and next episode it'llbe all Mary Louise and then we'll get
the reveal and they'll set it uplike for season three or whatever. And

(37:12):
then when it got to the endand she was like, here's my verdict,
and I was like, why didn'tshe like she's the one that's challenging
her for the kids, Like yeah, that didn't even make sense. And
I guess maybe what they could havedone is if they had done okay,
like you're going to testify first,Celeste and then you're going to testify next
Mary Louise, And then they couldhave still had their big moment if at

(37:35):
the very end Celeste was like okay, and I'm going to question her.
Yeah totally, that could have beenthe big reveal instead like, well,
I'm gonna be the one to questionher instead of the lawyer or whatever.
I thought when she I thought whenshe said that she was going to call
another witness, that she was goingto call Jane for some reason, like
I thought she was going to callJane to say like about the father.

(37:55):
But then that I realized that actuallyreally didn't have that much to do it,
so that would have made sense.Yeah, I didn't realize that her
awareness for Mary Louise because she alsohas a child her, like she has
grandma issues with her. Yeah.No, I wasn't expecting her to say
Mary Louise, even though that Iwas kind of super obvious now that we're

(38:19):
talking about it, But I don'tknow who I was. Yeah, I
thought, well, and I eitherthought it was gonna be Jane or just
like some unknown person who was goingto be like an interesting wild card.
But yeah, I did. Therewas actually a part of me that thought
maybe she was going to call herboys, even though that's not how that
works. But you know, Ijust didn I didn't think she was gonna

(38:43):
say Mary Louise. It was justweird that it was going to be her
witness. I don't know if thatwas strange to say. M I mean,
I'm here for it. Yeah,yeah, I'm excited to actually see
her cross examine her. But yeah, I hope that this makes at the
end of the episode. I hopecelest kicks ass gets your kids back.
At the end of the episode,it ends with some hotshot lawyer being like,

(39:07):
Hey, you want to come workfor me now? Oh yeah,
it's been off Celesti lawyer. Yeah, yeah, she does. Yes,
And I think that we're finally goingto find out how Perry's brother died.
And I'm very excited for that,I hope. So, yeah, that
would be good. Oh We're goingto find out. I'm calling it right
now. There is a three thousandpercent chance that we are finding out.

(39:30):
There is a zero percent chance thatwe are not going to find out how
Perry's brother died unless they're saving itfor the future, unless they're saving it
for this season. Three Yeah,Okay, and then to finish this all
up. Oh, does they haveanything anything else about crazy Mary Louise and
Celeste? Just I mean, Iguess, you know, I guess Celeste

(39:52):
has kind of stopped with the ambient, and I'm happy about that. But
she probably should not like down fourcups of just like, oh my god,
girl. But at least I waslike, Okay, is she gonna
like go driving? Now? What'sgonna happen? She just stayed home,
Like that's your version of like,go home and get some rest for your
big day tomorrow. Well, youknow, she didn't have the ammion to

(40:14):
help her sleep. She needed somethingthat was going to make her fired enough
to not vodka to unwind. Yeah, you know, we've all been there.
I mean, those of us withtwo sons have been there. What
if you don't have any wine?Half a bottle of vodka? You know.
I did notice that every scene wesee a oh okay, ninety percent

(40:37):
of the scenes that we see withMadeline at home, she's drinking a glass
of wine. If you do areal darkport, She's the only scene that
I can think of all the timemy head where she's not drinking wine at
home recently is where she's dancing inher wedding dress and even there, I'm
sure there was a glass of wine. I think there was some wine involved

(40:59):
with that. Yeah, can wetalk about that, like her delivery,
like she had to have been drunkright high, right like she had to
have her high she totally did.Oh. Also power to all of the
women there for not like all herfriends for looking at Celeste with concern and
intensity and not once like slut shamingher or giving looks or like looking at

(41:23):
her like like they were supportive femalefriends. And I really really appreciated that.
Yeah. Yeah, all of thoseone night stands coming No. Also,
ta Tasia, you were right back. Tattoo guy was a thing.

(41:44):
Yep, nailed it, nailed it, and he nailed her. She nailed
at all. The nailing was rightin the middle of it. What she
was like the madam of that nailing. So pivoting into Bonnie. Bonnie has

(42:09):
a lot of intense stuff going onwith her mom. She imagines killing her
with a pillow. She asked themif they could like overdose her on morphine
to let her go. She hasvisions like standing up in the courtroom and
saying I did it when when Celesteis asked about Perry dying, it was
intense. It was like kind ofhard, like I kept falling for it

(42:30):
too, like I kept thinking thatshe had, like not all of it,
but definitely there were some times whereI was like, oh my gosh,
and then it turned out to notbe real. So it was kind
of hard to follow sometimes, likewhat's real and what's not. Yeah.
Well, and Colleen, you madethe point in the last episode where when

(42:50):
Bonnie's mother says, kill me,is that perhaps like an imagination of Bonnie?
I think it was. I thinkthat I never Yeah, I'm not.
I still don't want that to bewhat happened, but I think I
am moving closer to seeing it yourway, Like I think you were onto
something when you said because we didn'thave. So the episode ends with Bonnie

(43:12):
confessing about all the different times thatshe resents her mom, and she resents
her for making her not feel safeat home, making her have a lot
of sex at thirteen, so shecan convince herself she feel loved for loving
a man that she does for marryinga man she doesn't love, Nathan,
which is then answers the question ofwhy she with him because he kind of
sucks, that's why. And youknow for the fact that she pushed him.

(43:42):
She pushed Perry down the stairs becauseshe was pushing I was pushing you.
And so we get all that whichI know has been was telegraphed in
the book with her dad as thecharacter, but it's it's brought to light,
you know in this episode that itwas her mother, as we all
kind of discussed last week. UM, and I resent you, I want
to forgive you. And the onlyreal thing that we know is real that

(44:06):
we've seen from Elizabeth is the tearrolling down her eye. As Bonnie Leaves
also shout out to Bonnie's bullet journalfrom Michael's that she had. I have
one myself, not that color,but same thing. I wonder if that's
also the same as the same bookas the masturbation diary. We might you
never know. Yeah, that's wheremy mind went to. I was like,

(44:30):
oh, oh, the same kindof journal but a different color that
Bonnie had. UM hashtag broadcast jokes, UM checks out find out what I
mean. Yeah, Bonnie is definitelystruggling and drowning, and I think that
one of her ways of getting tothe surface wasn't so much to confess to

(44:52):
Quinlan. Although I think that shemight go to Quinlan. I think that
her first steps of getting out ofunderneath the water was to tell her mom,
like, I have all these pentup feelings and I really resent you.
Yep, confess to forgive, toexhaust all the things that we're plaguing

(45:12):
her, because yeah, she said, ultimately, so that I can forgive
you. She said, I wishI want to forgive you, But she
didn't say what I do, becauseisn't that, ultimately how we get out
from drowning? Yeah? Is airingeverything out. It's interesting because I feel
like the whole purpose of the firstseason and the book was to show why

(45:34):
everybody kept the secret for Bonnie.And now I feel like Bonnie's going to
turn herself in. I mean,maybe she's not, but then it's kind
of like, well, what wasthe point of that now, Like I
don't really necessarily love the fact thatshe's turning herself in because I felt like
that with such a powerful statement,like we're gonna be so united and we're
going to keep this a secret,And now it's like that kind of just

(45:55):
went away because we had to followup on it a little bit too much.
M Yeah, I think, Imean, like, I'll be okay
with it as long as nobody goesto jail and they like determine that it's
self defense and everyone's mind because Ithink it's still like this powerful experience that
they lived together and it brought thesedifferent women together who wouldn't have otherwise been

(46:16):
friends, and really I do stillreally like that. But I also thought
that it was super interesting this episode, the scene between Bonnie and m Madeleine,
in particular, the one so afterMadeline like went off on her,
and then the scene where she wasbasically apologizing to Bonnie and Bonnie was like,

(46:40):
yeah, like it's getting to younow, because we've seen it get
to Bonnie basically this whole series,and I think we've had the slow build
up of seeing how it's affected allthe other people, and it was very
much like, oh, yeah,this is this is why Bonne has been
suffering so much. She can't tellanyone, not even her husband, not
even her kids. She has noone to talk to about this, and

(47:00):
I think we're really seeing that nowalso with Madeline and how it's affecting her
relationship because she's and maybe this iswhy the cheating stuff is in there with
Madeline because she is trying to winback his trust, but then she has
this complication of she has this hugeother secret that she can't talk about.

(47:21):
So, yeah, how do youhow do you win back the trust when
you're still lying to him? Andhe can tell that she's lying to him
but it's not about anything having todo with their relationship, but she can't
tell him that, and so it'slike this really difficult thing to navigate.
And you can tell that Madeline likeit's getting to her. She's going a
little nuts, right, Yeah,It's like and I think that line really

(47:43):
harkened back to me to was itthe first episode or the second episode between
Madeleine and Bonnie and she says,you know, it's it's coming, It's
coming to get us, It's comingfor us. Who is and she's like
the lie. Like it's felt likea real like reprise of that and like
a hearkening back to that sort ofsentiment. I think you your spot on

(48:05):
with um, the fact that it'sgetting to Madeline. Yeah, yes,
I agree, um, especially becauseMadeline's the one that's most likely to not
break, even though she's the biggestgossip and I think she's there. Well
I was, I mean, Ireally wondered during this episode of Madeline was
going to say anything to Ed andshe's like one condition of like, you

(48:29):
can't tell this to anyone. Theproblem is like then you're you're making somebody
else complainings. Yeah. Yeah,so it's a hard thing. Yeah,
So what do we think? Dowe think that next episode Bonnie is Bonnie
is going to confess to Quinlin orI think she's going to try to,
but I feel like the other womenmight rally around her and support her,

(48:54):
Okay, because I think if we'retooting for season three, somebody's going to
break down and say something. AndI think that because Corey had the line
at the beginning of the episode wherehe said that he came, and that's
what I reason I think that hemight be a plant because he was like,
I think one of you is goingto break, or she thinks one
of you is going to break,and whoever that is is going to get

(49:17):
you know, special treatment or orwhatever, get off and the others are
fucked. Yeah that's exactly how hesaid it too. I know, perfect
thank you, which if Corey isa plant again, It's just like,
this is not what Jane needs toheal well, And I feel like that's
something that well, at least inshows like the cops always say that kind

(49:42):
of thing, Like I feel likethey always try to get people to turn
on each other, saying like,oh, the first person will tell what
a deal, and then after thateverybody else is going to be going to
prison or whatever. Yeah, SoI don't know that's actually accurate or not.
Maybe that's what the cops told himand he's just passing it along right
right to play devil's advocate. Thedumb stupid boy would want to protect his
girlfriend and would get scared by thatthreat and would make sure that he repeated

(50:06):
it to his girlfriends that she couldbe the one that didn't get fucked right,
and then the cops would have maybedone that on purpose, so that
so that it would get back tothem, right, she wouldn't get she
would just get off exactly. Waita second, All right, Well that's

(50:28):
what we thought of the episode.Any last minute thoughts, guys, I'm
just interested to see how it finishes. Yeah, it's a lot, there's
a lot to wrap up in oneweek, whether they'll get off or just
or get fucked, just get offhopefully both hopefully and hopefully it'll be longer
than forty five minutes, and hopefullyAmmian won't be involved, but everyone will

(50:52):
remember it the next day. Right, So, okay, here's my predictions
for next week. Ready, everybodyquick predictions. Then we're gonna go to
feedback. Okay. I think Janeand Corey are going to have sex and
then we're gonna find out afterwards thatCorey is in fact a spy. Just

(51:12):
exactly. I think that. Ithink that Gordon and Nata are going to
have it out, but stay ata standstill, because I don't think for
all of her, like you know, badassery in business, I don't think
that she's quite done with him orOkay, well, amendment, I think
we're gonna see a scene with Gordon, Nada and the therapist next week did

(51:38):
a therapist free episode. Madeline andEd are going to get together, and
then if there is a season three, we're going to find out that Madeleine
that Ed did have sex with Tory. Um. I mean, maybe that's
why he was thawing now, yeah, maybe that maybe he got out of

(52:00):
a system. Um had a littlestress relief, if you know what I
mean. I felt like exactly.Um, and then who's left a Bonnie?
I think that Bonnie is going tocome forward to the police, but
we're not going to hear what shehas to say. It'll just leave it
off with that. And nah,I don't think she leaves Nathan now,

(52:23):
there's way too much else to goon before that unless she loves Sky And
did I get everybody? I ohCeleste. I think that Celeste is going
to win her kids back from MaryLouise and get a job offerer to come
back to work. Okay, thoseare my predictions. Write them down.

(52:44):
I'm right. Who else? Imean, that's pretty complete. Yeah.
I have a hard time like forsome of them, like more minor plots.
I feel like for Celeste, Idefinitely think she's going to get her
kids back. Like I don't thinkthat Mary Louise is gonna win um at
least I I really hope not.That would be weird um. And then

(53:07):
I feel like Bonnie will turn herselfin in some way. So but then
then the other three I don't reallyknow. Yep. I still think something
big is going to happen at theaquarium. Think something bank's gonna happen at
the aquarium. There's sharks. Apreview of Jane standing in front of those
one of those big tanks. Idon't know, maybe someone's getting drowned.

(53:27):
I don't know, but I thinksomething's going to happen in the aquarium.
Big shark's gonna like just bust outof one of the tanks. And then
even so, all right, MaryLouise gets eating by a shark. Writing
down, Although the aquarium doesn't reallyhave like well Sandy it does in the
show, it does in this show. Well, Jane also works there,
so we don't have to be superrealistic. Maybe it's one of those prickly

(53:50):
sea urchins just like jumps out ofthe waiting pool and just attacks Mary Louise
in the face. Yeah, somethingprickly gets her, something quickly gets her.
Yeah. Okay, well everybody good. Let's get into some feedback.
All right, so the first bitof feedback. Oh, actually, let's

(54:12):
save this to the end. SoDennis said, was it Amanda who did
not like this montage? Like themontage at the end? I agree,
it seemed confusing and makes me angrythat including the montage was why the rest
of Shandy was laying on the cuttingroom floor. Agreed, agreed, and
we will get to that. Galsays, if Bonnie comes clean to the
police, she could she get immunityand the other women be arrested for hindering

(54:35):
an investigation. I believe that thatis what Corey was warning her about this
episode. And Mama Gee says,looks like Celeste is finally going to get
a backbone and fight Mary. Louiseis going down. Yes, yes,
And then Matt brought this to ourattention, and this has been the big
thing all season. And this isactually about Andrea Arnold, who directed all

(55:01):
the episodes of season two, Andit came out an interviewed from Indie Wire
this past week that she did nothave final say and the original director from
season one, John Mark Dala Valet, Yeah, okay, and it looked

(55:23):
French. It was very okay,well okay, well close enough, Frank,
you're gonna say, we've been doingthis a long out of my mouth.
Um. So, essentially, theyshe was approached to address direct the

(55:49):
season with her style and got freereign over every aspect of the production.
However, the show runners always intendedto give Valet back the creative rains,
so that way he could then editthe season to fit his style. Right,
And apparently the whole reason that hewasn't doing it from the beginning is
because he was on a sharper objectsharp objects. Yes, then HBO didn't

(56:12):
want to wait production for him.So did she know that going in or
did she think she got the thing? They had basically a little confused on
right. What it sounds like isthat she was told that she was basically
like she directed her. Yeah,yeah, it was hers from you know,
Yeah, well, and I'm goingto do that. You need to
at least be upfront about it andhave people collaborate a little bit so they

(56:36):
can maybe talk about it together.Well, and that's what I didn't understand.
I mean, if they were andmaybe maybe she did know that that
he was going to be involved alittle bit, but I don't know if
she knew the extent of the involvementat that point. It's like, well,
if if you have the intention ofmaking it, you know, follow
a certain style, like his stylefrom season one, maybe you should tell
her that. And then she theynever had a conversation direct director. There

(57:00):
was no understand that there was nostyle guy, There was no nothing.
It was this is we want weare hiring you because of what you bring
to the table. Go make usseason two. She's an Oscar winner,
she's a Bathto winner, she's wonthe Jury Jury Prize. Cons I can
we're back in front three times.Um, she has you know, feminist

(57:22):
Indie Street cred, and they stillpulled this shit on her, like well
and yeah, I mean I hadthe thing told her, I'm sorry,
let me just finish my thought.Yeah, because I may have to go
in a second. Um, ifthey get just said from the beginning,
like they said, shoot it inyour style, you have complete rain.
And then they always had the intentionof having Valet give the final edit,

(57:45):
which, as we have pointed outin a couple of episodes, now the
storyline is okay, but like we'rewe're getting set up for things that isn't
paying off, and we're having randomthings happen and montages that you know,
go from day and night and dayand night again, and uh, it

(58:05):
just it kind of taints it forme to know that they brought her on
so they could be like, look, we had this female director and they
never said they said do it inyour style. But they never fucking told
her like we want you to doit and put your flavor into the same
flavor that the season one was.And I bet you she would have directed
a little bit differently. Well yeah, and they would have been on screen.

(58:30):
You would have had a different part. Well for example, Um,
I know that, or at leastI heard that in American Honey that she
directed, which I haven't seen yet. Um, the main actress is just
somebody that she saw like a Venicebeach or like you know, somewhere She
just like literally saw this person waslike, hey, do you want to
come in and like, um,maybe like you know, run a scene

(58:52):
and try try out for this part. Um, So I think that you
know, she's she's sort of likethat's maybe one of her things is like
using just like real people and justlike you know, your average Joe,
which I think is a big partof why she decided that I should have
a line. And so yes,because A, you're a real person in

(59:14):
B I was going to ask youearlier, but I didn't want. I
want to say it for now.Did you work with her like she was
there? I met her like andshe was the one who told me for
like she yeah, and so shewas one that decided I was having this
line, and I was, youknow, I it was after the fact
that I learned the stuff about Americanhoney, and I was like, oh,
that's why she felt comfortable just likehaving a Rando do a line,

(59:37):
because like my whole you know,like I'm not an actress, but she
just like you know, threw thaton me. And that I think that's
maybe like part of her style andpart of her approach. And so that
also then makes sense why that wholething got scrapped, because then you know,
that day afterwards was like, well, his chick, what is this

(59:58):
doing here? But I'm sure shehe had some specific right and for that
whole thing. Knowing that makes herkind of more badass because Amanda, wouldn't
you agree that a good director canget whatever they want from their actors,
Yes, yes, hundred percent.But I think it's also I think in

(01:00:19):
a case like that, it's probablywas more on the writer to want that
to be cut, because I thinkthe big difference between film to television is
that television the showrunners tend to bethe writers, not the directors. So
I think improvising in that scenario wasprobably a David E. Kelly thing was
like, well, that wasn't inthe script, but I you know,
I think it's sort of tomato tomato, Like it's it's one of the male

(01:00:45):
EPs of the show telling this feministfemale director that they hired because to do
it in her style, that herstyle was not applicable here. Well,
here's the thing that bush Yeah,the thing that bugs me about this whole
thing. I mean, first ofall, can you imagine like the ego
that this guy must have to comein and be like, oh, I

(01:01:06):
wasn't here for any of this,but I know best about what's going to
look good on screen, Like,let me just like undercut everything you've done
all season. And then second ofall, like it's just really hard for
me to imagine HBO or anyone likebeing like, oh, you know,
let's say that Andrea Arnold had beendirecting sharp objects, and it's just hard

(01:01:28):
for me to imagine that they wouldhave held this for her and been like,
let's have you be splitting it betweenit. It's just like I can't
imagine them really holding it for awoman. And maybe I don't really know
that much about like the whole directingWorld or anything with Hollywood. But I
just feel like that it's just sotypical that they would be like, Oh,
we really need this man here,so let's we'll let him do both,

(01:01:49):
even though he's going to be overextended. Yeah. Yeah, And
why there was such a necessity tokeep the seasons the consistent look, And
if that was the case, whywasn't that conveyed when track negotiations were happening,
Because I can think of so manyshows where it was intentional that from

(01:02:12):
seeing that from season to season thelook is vastly different, And I think
that really might have helped a showlike this, where you really were going
in a completely different space. Youwere leaving the space of the book and
where things were plotted out, andyou were going into uncharted territory. And
I think it would have only madesense to then give the show a different

(01:02:34):
look and feel to support that,right, Yeah, or even keep the
same you know, style, butjust communicate that. And I mean,
tell her she's a talented director.I'm sure she could have done it.
It's just so disrespectful too, exactly. And you know what I have to
say, the fact that this iscoming out two weeks before the end of

(01:02:54):
the season, and it totally kindof taints everything for everybody. If this
had come out before the season startedor write, you know, one or
two episodes in. This was theperfect timing for somebody to get their revenge
interview out there. Totally. ButI did they think that she was She's
not some nobody who they hired offthe street to give their first chance,

(01:03:15):
who would feel like she has noconnections, like she's a fucking oscar Bath
thea cons winner, Kane's winner.Don't even tell me she has one things
like she she has connections, she'sshe might not be as powerful as davidy
Kelly. And then also bothers mebecause David Kelly is supposed to be one
of the good ones, isn't heYeah, he's just been around for forever.

(01:03:37):
And the La Times had a pickedup the story and had a really
interesting thing and they they went moreinto the just production differences of television verse
film and kind of talked a littlebit about how, you know, film
directors like Andrea Arnold and Aba Duverneyand a couple of others are moving into

(01:04:00):
television, um just as like thingsstreamers and things have sort of blurred the
lines a little bit, but howat the end of the day, a
television production operates very differently from afilm production. And someone like David Kelly
that is a writer and showrunner andhas been for forever, he has been
accused in the past of having controlissues because he wants to write everything.

(01:04:21):
He's kind of in the same veinas like an Aaron Sorkin that they want
to write every episode in addition toproducing it. So now there becomes a
huge equal creative or whatever. Right, there becomes a huge issue in releasing
control. So I think, yes, we can get on the director for

(01:04:44):
regaining control, but who gave himthe opportunity to do that? I think
David bo. I think you knowthere, you can't put all the blame
on one dude. In no,I totally agree is coming from HBO and
like, yeah, all that stuff, you know. The only thing I

(01:05:04):
know we have to wrap this upis it kind of bombs me out when
the female author of the book andco creator of the series and the I
don't know five women who were starringin it, two women who are executive
producers, like did they know aboutthis? Because none of them really talked.
I noticed there was a female directorwhen everything started, and I didn't

(01:05:28):
read that many interviews, but Ididn't see her like doing the interview circuit.
I didn't see re Cert, NicoleKidman or anybody that gave interviews like
touting it to like what I waslike to work with her. So they
must have had some kind of headsup that the final edit didn't include her
product, Like is there something moreto the story we're not hearing or were
they complicit in it or did theyjust know like to to not say anything.

(01:05:51):
Did they secretly help her get thisout here or did they? Were
they like on team HBO, Likethere's just to me and I guess this
is the point, Like this iswhy this is coming up now, Like
are we disappointed in them or arewe going to hold out for their judgment?
Like what, I'm just going tobe disappointed in the dudes. I'll

(01:06:11):
reserve judgment for them until I havemore information. But I'm super disappointed in
the dudes, well because we knowthat directly they had a role in it
yet exactly. But I think tobring it back around to our earlier discussion
at the top of the show,I do think this seriously hurts their chances
of coming back for a season three. I think the waters are a little

(01:06:32):
too tainted. Yep, right,and like whoever comes back next see if
they come back next season, ifthey do a woman director or something,
she better make sure that she hasfinal in her contracts. Specifically says I
have control of the final edit.Or they just bring back Jean Mark Valet
or whatever fuck his name is andjust be like, hey, he had

(01:06:54):
the vision. Wash it. Idon't know, like either like own up
to it and say it's this washow it was. It didn't work out,
or like don't give us the bullshitlike, well, she would never
had funnel at it, so shehas no reason to complain statement that they
gave or you know, hire somebodyand make sure that that person has the
final Say who's the chick they didwonder woman? Is she available? Maybe

(01:07:15):
she should do it? Yeah,and she has done TV as well because
she did that that. I amthe night for tnt uh The Hodel Family
Black Dahlia. Oh, I needto watch. Yeah, it's very good.
I saw two episodes on the airplaneto and from Atlanta this weekend.
Oh, I keep watching if itwas streaming somewhere yeah, okay, Well,

(01:07:42):
um, that's all I've got.Does anybody else have anything otherwise?
Shanny, do you have a locallocal report for us? I'm not really.
I mean I don't think we've youknow, since the last couple of
episodes, we haven't really gotten anynew locations, gotcha. I did notice
somebody in the cafes seen with theaterman's wife. I noticed that somebody was

(01:08:05):
reading them Honorary Weekly, which isan actual weekly here. So that was
kind of fun. But that's reallythe only thing nice. Yeah, alright,
what about music? We had somegood songs, I mean have some
good song did so let's see.Um. The first song is a Golden

(01:08:26):
Boy with Miss Kitten from Rippin Kitten. That is, as Jane is driving
to Corey's house to confront him,just like a good angry chick song.
Yes. The next song of noteis and Peebles until You Came into My
Life. It's got this great kindof soul sole thing. We hear it

(01:08:53):
first in the background when Ed andMadeline are in the kitchen talking about how
she'd cast out Bunnie, which,by the way, which was a total
I mean, my whole note isMadeline is a bitch by such a bit,
and then we hear the song againas Madeline is driving in her car

(01:09:14):
and she you're seeing flashbacks of thenight of the accident, and it's sort
of intercut with scenes more tender momentsof her scene of her relationship with Ed,
which is where I first heard thesong. So when I was doing
my research and compiling this, Ihad to go back and listen to that
first scene and it's playing very verysoftly in the background. Um. The

(01:09:34):
next song is song by Placebo calledRunning Up That Hill. Um. It
is playing very very quietly in thecoffee shop um, where Ed and uh
Tori, the actor director's wife aresex propositioning each other. But you can

(01:09:59):
really hear more clearly at the endof the scene prior, which is as
detective Quinlan is like looking through thecrime scene photos, and then it moves
into the coffee shop scene. Oh. Question, another point, another either
weird editing because of the Arnold controversyor check mark in the season three column
would be this Quinland thing, likeshe's everywhere, Like, why is she

(01:10:25):
doing all this? Why are wewasting screen time if it's not just a
few minutes on the screen, Becausethey cut Channy out, like, why
why are wasting screen time on herstill investigating if it's not going to pay
off in a really big way,right, Or it's just because there's not
a ton of crime and mon rightproper right? Well, no, that's
why she's still investigating. It's exactlyno one gets the best of Quinlan.

(01:10:48):
She looked at her murderer. Butyeah, um, that song is a
Kate Bush song originally, and Ijust made the note that I feel like
Ed would totally be a Kate Bushfan. Yes, I think you're right.
Yeah, I feel like that's totallyup his alley. Next song is
Roy Orbison. It's over that isplaying as Jane goes to confront Mary Louise,

(01:11:13):
and then it has this big swellwhen Mary Louise is having her evil
villain moment after she shuts the doorin Jane's face. And then this is
also the song that is playing overthe end credits. Yeah, a little
interesting because it's about quite over,but it's just about over because we're heading
into the finale. Yeah, andthen when Madeline is dancing in her wedding

(01:11:35):
dress, it's everybody wants to rulethe world, but it's the Patti Smith
cover, which I also feel likeif that's a song that makes her think
of Ed because he picked it.Of course Ed would pick a Patti Smith
song for his wedding. That makessense, which is why we think he'd
be a Kate Bush fan. Eggsactlyfor all the same reason he's a Kate

(01:11:58):
Bush fan also, I guess.Uh. And then lastly, um,
Elizabeth Cotton song shake Sugary. Uh. It's playing in the background in the
last hospital scene with Bonnie and hermom when she's sort of flashing back of
their their life together. Yeah.And that music was an intense flashback.

(01:12:24):
Yeah, it was an intense flashback. Yeah. Again, I thought the
music was actually really good this episode, better than I mean, it usually
has good music, but like itwas more noticeable. So yeah, and
they all felt really natural, andum, nothing felt weird and out of
place. They all did a goodjob of sort of supporting the scene in

(01:12:45):
which they were being utilized. Agreed. So, all right, does anybody
else have anything before we wrap thisup? Well, we do have one
awesome email. Oh my goodness,they totally forgot, Yes, And I
think it's a great one to endon. I think it's a good little
um nugget for us. It's reallyimportant we get this in before next week

(01:13:08):
because when it comes true, we'regonna want to make sure that this was
read on air. Okay, I'mso sorry. I can't believe I missed
this. Go ahead, It's okay, we jumped around. Okay. So
this email is from someone very nearand dear to my heart, A one
Daniel, Yeah, who shares thesame birthday with me. Listeners of the

(01:13:31):
broadcast would know he is my lifepartner and roommate. Um. And he
writes it first time writing into anyof our podcasts. So this is this
is a big monumental moment in ourpodcasting life. We've made it, guist,
we have made it, and it'sa big little lies theory. Hi.

(01:13:54):
My theory is that Mary Louise haslife always her head to lose the
custom battle to Celeste because of herlife. Her life issue. Geral rule,
I'm sorry, the general rule thatgranting child custom to a woman who

(01:14:24):
I think it's so funny. Thegeneral rule that granting child customing to a
woman who has lines instant amount tochild endangerment. Big little Life, that's
the best part. The hashtag biglittle life, which I believe you guys

(01:14:45):
looked at looked up the hashtag.Daniel looked up the hashtag and that too
a thing. It's not a thing. Would like to know that that is
not a thing. That this isa unique hashtag. So listeners, use
it, bread it, spread itwide, Let's make big little ice.
Yes. So, okay, here'sthe thing. Broadcast broadcast broad little eyes.

(01:15:06):
Listeners, what we're gonna do forthe finale on Sunday Monday. Whenever
you watch it, you need tohashtag it with broad little big bit.
You need to hashtag it with biglittle Lice. So that way, A,
we know that you've listened to thisand B it's really fucking funny.
Oh, you can also hashtag withbig little ice because maybe HBO will pick

(01:15:29):
up on it, and that's reallyfunny. Let's say together, Yeah,
let's do it. Daniel has areally good point, though, Mary Louise
does scratch her head a lot.Yeah, she does. Well, if
she starts season three, that istotally going to happen with her head shaved.
Well no, all right, well, all right, guys. Uh

(01:15:59):
On that note, I don't thinkthere was a better way that we could
have ended it. Thank you forlistening. If you'd like to give us
any feedback whatsoever, I promise Iwon't forget it next week. Broadcasters three
at gmail dot com or three threeone two seven six two three seven three.
We have a Facebook fan page thingy. You can search for it the
broadcast or the broadcast with a Manda, Shandy and Colleen something like that.

(01:16:24):
We've get all information and stuff onthere, as well as the Jay and
Jack Facebook group, which is Facebookdot com slash groups slash Jane Jack Group.
We have an Instagram page which weare fairly active on. I was
on the big screen on Petco Parkyesterday for the Padres game. Yeah.
All you have to do is tweettheir hashtag and they put you on the

(01:16:44):
screen. And I guess they likedus because Jay and I were on the
screen a lot. I'm on theJumboTron. Who I wanted to do it.
Never made it at a Yankee game, but sure did make it at
a Potteries game. Yeah. Sothat would be the broad Casters three on
Instagram. Check us out there,listen to our other show, the broadcast.

(01:17:04):
If you could go on iTunes andleave us a five star review,
would really appreciate that. I think. So next week we're gonna have a
finale episode for the season finale orseries finale or whatever it's going to be.
And then I think we're going tocome back one more time, maybe
one or two more times, Sostay tuned for that. I don't know,
we'll see, we'll play it byyear, maybe more, who knows.

(01:17:27):
But yeah, if you could,you know, check that out,
give us a review. Blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
Thank you for listening overall, longstory short, and yeah, thanks to
Patrin, especially the ones that contributea certain level, and that would be
at the creepymail Man tack from Tokyoet Kart Richner, Drake the Destroyer of
Sound. I think I wrote downhold on, Oh, the Destroyer or

(01:17:51):
Time? Why did I write thatdown? Drake the Breaker of Time.
I wrote that down for some reason. Drake the Breaker of Time. Maggie
the Man Magnificent, and Joanna withthe Plan. Thank you guys, and
yeah, I've got nothing else.We'll see you next week for the finale
show. We'll also if you listento the broadcast, we'll see you for

(01:18:12):
our regular scheduled episode of the broadcastnext week on July thirtieth. For the
broadcast, we are actually going torecord a podcast with some of the wonderful
producers and investigative reporters of Samara andNatalie from in the Dark. So if
you listen to that podcast, youknow, stay tuned for that because that
will be out the end of Julyearly August on the broadcast. And uh

(01:18:38):
yeah, that's all I've got soon that note, oh out, Oh
my goodness, Alice, thank youso much for I'm sorry that we talked
over you points. Oh no,you're fine. You can just lump me
in with Daniel. As far aspeople you forgot on the show calling,
I was right here, I'm kidding. There's so much for playing with us.

(01:19:01):
Yeah, it was a lot offun to talk about big little lies
with you guys. And thank youfor having me on. Thank you for
coming on. We thank you forcoming on. You're always welcome. Thank
you. Is it still worth itto read the book at this point?
The book is really good. Ilike the book much better than I like
the show, so I highly recommendit. And it is quite a bit

(01:19:21):
different. Like I said, now, I can't remember what happened in the
book and what happened in the show, but yeah, definitely check it out
if you have it. Okay,okay, all right, Well on that
note, thanks guys. I'm Colleen, I'm Amanda, I'm Shandy, and
I'm Alice. Thanks guys, havea great week. Peace out. Bye bye bye