June 26, 2025 • 42 mins
A film editor’s job is much like the work of a sculptor. You take a massive block of material—raw footage—and with a series of delicate, precise cuts, you shape it into something cohesive, something meaningful. In today’s episode, we welcome Michael Trent, a master of cinematic storytelling who has spent his career assembling some of Hollywood’s most unforgettable films. From the war-torn beaches of Saving Private Ryan to the eerie corridors of The Hatred, his work is the unseen hand that guides an audience’s emotions, turning chaos into art.For Michael Trent, the journey into the editing room began long before he ever set foot in Hollywood. His father, a sound editor in England, introduced him to the craft at an early age. “I was using a Moviola by the time I was ten,” he recalls, describing the tactile magic of celluloid film. But talent alone wasn’t enough to break into the industry—his leap from England to Hollywood in 1994 was an act of faith, a cold call to the right person at the right time, proving that the universe often conspires in favor of those who dare.
Editing is not merely about cutting and pasting scenes together. It is about rhythm, about knowing when to hold a shot and when to move on. It is the balance between subtlety and impact, between quiet tension and explosive release. “I think a lot of editors cut too much,” Michael Trent shares. “You have to feel the emotion of a scene and let it breathe.” His work on The Hatred is a testament to this philosophy, particularly in its ability to sustain suspense, making audiences feel the presence of something sinister lurking just beyond the frame.One of the most fascinating aspects of his career was working alongside Steven Spielberg. Editing Saving Private Ryan meant moving between locations, from an Irish field to an aerospace museum in England, adapting to whatever environment was necessary. But beyond the logistics, Spielberg’s ability to visualize an edit in his head was what amazed Michael Trent the most. “He called in from Japan with an edit suggestion, and when we made the change, it worked perfectly. It was as if he had a video camera inside his mind.”Horror editing, in particular, demands a unique approach. Timing becomes everything—not just in the obvious jump scares, but in the slow-building unease that keeps an audience gripping their seats.
A shadow lingering a second too long, a door creaking open just slightly out of sync—these are the choices that make a horror film work. “There’s a scene in The Hatred where Alice walks toward the cellar,” Michael Trent explains. “We held the shot longer than usual, just to build that sense of dread.”To be an editor is to be both an artist and a storyteller, sculpting not with clay or paint, but with time itself. The true test of an editor’s skill lies not in what they add, but in what they take away. Sometimes, entire scenes—ones that took days to shoot—must be discarded for the sake of pacing and narrative flow. “You have to be ruthless,” Michael Trent says. “If it doesn’t serve the story, it has to go.”
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/bulletproof-screenwriting-podcast--2881148/support.
Editing is not merely about cutting and pasting scenes together. It is about rhythm, about knowing when to hold a shot and when to move on. It is the balance between subtlety and impact, between quiet tension and explosive release. “I think a lot of editors cut too much,” Michael Trent shares. “You have to feel the emotion of a scene and let it breathe.” His work on The Hatred is a testament to this philosophy, particularly in its ability to sustain suspense, making audiences feel the presence of something sinister lurking just beyond the frame.One of the most fascinating aspects of his career was working alongside Steven Spielberg. Editing Saving Private Ryan meant moving between locations, from an Irish field to an aerospace museum in England, adapting to whatever environment was necessary. But beyond the logistics, Spielberg’s ability to visualize an edit in his head was what amazed Michael Trent the most. “He called in from Japan with an edit suggestion, and when we made the change, it worked perfectly. It was as if he had a video camera inside his mind.”Horror editing, in particular, demands a unique approach. Timing becomes everything—not just in the obvious jump scares, but in the slow-building unease that keeps an audience gripping their seats.
A shadow lingering a second too long, a door creaking open just slightly out of sync—these are the choices that make a horror film work. “There’s a scene in The Hatred where Alice walks toward the cellar,” Michael Trent explains. “We held the shot longer than usual, just to build that sense of dread.”To be an editor is to be both an artist and a storyteller, sculpting not with clay or paint, but with time itself. The true test of an editor’s skill lies not in what they add, but in what they take away. Sometimes, entire scenes—ones that took days to shoot—must be discarded for the sake of pacing and narrative flow. “You have to be ruthless,” Michael Trent says. “If it doesn’t serve the story, it has to go.”
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/bulletproof-screenwriting-podcast--2881148/support.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
You are listening to the IFAH podcast Network. For more
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Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, episode number four twenty five.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Start writing no matter what. The water does not flow
until the faucet is turned on.
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Louis Lemore broadcasting from a dark, windowless room in Hollywood
when we really should be working on that next draft.
It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and
business of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your
screenplay bulletproof.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
I am your humble host Alex Ferrari.
Speaker 5 (00:47):
Now.
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Today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof Script Coverage.
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(01:35):
Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.
Speaker 5 (01:41):
Well, initially it's a family involvement. I mean, my father
was a sound editor in England. He's now retired, so
editing has been something that I grew up with, going
to work with my dad. I've even got pictures of
me back in the late night teen seventies with single
(02:02):
stripe and film in my hands. So it was really
my father that got me involved. But I also did
go to a film school in England, a very small,
relatively unknown one, but it was still a film course
that I did in England. But essentially it was a
family connection, so.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
You're basically born into it, so it was almost like
was in your blood to get into the film industry.
Speaker 5 (02:26):
In lots of ways, yeah, I mean it really was.
It was something that we grew up with on a
you know, really a day to day basis.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
So let me ask you this, is there a difference
of any kind, whether major or minor, between the sort
of the English film industry and the American film industry.
Speaker 5 (02:47):
If there is, I'm not sure that I'm really aware
of it. When I was in England, I worked on
lots of American films anyway, or at least, you know what,
there were finance from the United States, so I couldn't
really tell the difference. I mean, there's there's certainly larger
budgets in the United States, and I did work on
(03:09):
some English films that were of smaller budgets, but no,
as far as the as far as my work experience
is concerned, that there wasn't really a difference, or isn't
really a difference.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
So so when did you first, you know, decide, I mean,
when you were editing actually, let me ask you this,
when you were when you're going back into editing and
you were actually you know, as as you were sort
of born into this, did you have like a movie
old at home or anything else when you were just
sort of cutting your own films together, or maybe even
a Super eight.
Speaker 5 (03:36):
Camera well, no, we didn't have a movie older. They
were quite a big, big machines. But I did get
used to using a movieoda from the age of about
I would say, ten years old, because my father would
bring us into work and and I would get to
use the machinery that and and Steambeck's and flatbed coems.
(04:00):
But we didn't have any equipment at home.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
No, So, Micha, when did you make the trip then
from England to over here to America.
Speaker 5 (04:09):
In nineteen ninety four, So when you came over.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
Did you already have like a few gigs lined up
in like movies to edit?
Speaker 5 (04:17):
No, No, not at all. I was on a movie
that started in England and it was a picture called
We're Back, a Dinosaurs Story. And I was a sound
assistant on that movie, and we were mixing at Twickenham
Studios in England, and the executive producer on the movie
was Steven Spielberg, and he saw the mix from Twickenham
(04:41):
and wanted some changes and decided that it would be
better to bring the movie from England to the United
States to do the final mix at Universal. Actually we
ended up at Toddeo. But actually it's the other way around.
We ended up at Universal. That's how I he came here. Yea,
(05:04):
that was all that was in nineteen ninety three, and
then I met a girl in fact on that movie
and then went back to England. In the meantime we
did the long distance relationship thing, and then I moved
here completely in September of ninety four. But at that
time I had no gigs lined up. When I arrived here,
(05:28):
I really cold called British editors that I'd known in England,
about five of them, and luckily for me, one of
them came back actually with a job offer. So finding
work was initially was I say, relatively easy for me,
just because this particular ready to pick me up and
(05:51):
gave me a job.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
So at that point he knew you, so you didn't
have to like show him like a reel or anything, right,
so he actually knew you from before.
Speaker 5 (05:59):
Yeah, I knew. I knew him from England and he
was a British editor that would works in England and
then was working here. He was working on a picture
picture called Rob Roy for Michael Katon Jones. The editor
was Petere Hones, and I say I knew him from
England and he was one of the people I called
and he just happened to have an opening at that
particular time.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
So just to sort of follow up on that question
and just to sort of, you know, if you're ever going,
because I actually have some friends of mine who've actually
gone from country to country. I think that's a really
incredible feat because if you go to another even if
you're in England, let's say, and you go from maybe
Manchester to London, you know, you're depending behind the size
of the network you might have, you know, no nobody
(06:41):
you know have to actually get your foot in the
door through reels. You know, you're basically starting over from scratch,
you know, and then going from a different country to
another country. I mean, you really either have to a
have a deep network or you have to be able
to just sort of, you know, get your foot in
the door in a lot of places. And I actually
know a couple of people, Michael, who are actually moving
(07:02):
from like different places like Australia to England because they
want to actually get into the British film industry. So
it's just kind of I always kind of find it,
you know, fascinating, because just to be able to do that,
you either have to do one of the one of
those two things, have a deep network or be able
to just knock on ten thousand doors to get one.
Speaker 5 (07:20):
Yes, yeah, well that's right. I mean, you know, when
I look back on it, it was a crazy thing
to do, but I was young at the time and
it it didn't feel scary at the time. It was
just something I wanted to do and for some reason
I felt that it would work out, and to one
(07:41):
extent or another, it has. So I feel very lucky.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
You know, don't you You touched on something too. Do
you feel when you're younger, maybe you know, when you're
first staring out in film, anything's possible, you know, like anything,
you know what I mean, like you could. It just
feels that everything's just going to come together where you're
in a project or have you just go you know what,
I don't you know, damn the people who naysayers and
(08:05):
I don't have a lot of budget. I don't have
a lot of budget. I don't have a lot of
you know whatever. But we're just going to go do something,
you know what I mean? Because I mean honestly, like
I'm thirty two right now, and when I was first
starting out, I would actually go out and shoot a
hell of a lot more than I do. Now you
know what I mean, As a similar effect happened to you, I.
Speaker 5 (08:24):
Think that it was definitely my experience was I didn't
really consider the possibility of failing. And that wasn't any
kind of not meant in an arrogant way. It's just
that I just felt that it would work out. It
was something that I really wanted to do, to move
(08:45):
to the United States and work in film editing, and
it was just something that I felt would work out.
And I wasn't I wasn't scared about it, as I say,
probably foolishly looking back, but I felt it was it
was just something that would just happen. Yeah, there's definitely
(09:06):
a sort of a fatalist element to it. I guess
I just didn't consider what would happen if I failed.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
Yeah, you take quitting and filling off the table, right,
and basically you're like, you don't give yourself a choice.
You just say say to yourself, listen, this is the
you know, I have one option, and this is it
I have to do. Go do this.
Speaker 5 (09:28):
This is what we're doing. That's that's basically was this
is what I'm doing yeah, yeah, and and there was
no considering anything else. So it was just I mean
there's been periods of unemployment in the interim where things
have not you know, always been easy. But initially somebody
was looking after me for sure, and it was Peter Honess.
(09:50):
There's no doubt about that.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
And now back to the show.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
So after that one editing job that we were just discussing,
after that was over, you know, what what did you
do to go out and to try to find like
more assignments and more movies.
Speaker 5 (10:13):
After after Rob Roy Yes, yeah, I was actually Peter
Honess had another movie which we went straight onto, so
I didn't have to do any knocking on doors. We
went straight almost straight onto a movie called Eye for
an Eye that John Schlesinger directed, and again he picked
(10:35):
me up as an assistant editor on that movie. So
we all moved on as a crew. It wasn't immediate,
but it was within a within a month or two,
so we all moved on as a crew.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
So and then then basically did you keep like moving
along with Peter as you as you from project to project?
Speaker 5 (10:52):
We did. We did Rob Roy Eye for an Eye
then we did, I think. Then the next one we
did was l A Confidential in nineteen ninety six, So
those were actually there was three movies that I moved
along with Peter. He hired me on three movies, and
(11:13):
then I went elsewhere after that.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
So after you want, you know, I actually am looking
at your IMDb right now and I have to ask.
You know, you were the assistant editor on Saving Private Ryan.
You know, getting to work with Spielberg and seeing some
of you know, of the footage they first shot and
everything like that. You know, what was it like to
actually work on Saving Private Ryan?
Speaker 5 (11:34):
Oh? Well, that was It was an incredible experience from
lots of points of view. First of all, we knew
I'd read the script, so I knew it was going
to be an amazing script, an amazing movie. But from
a personal point of view, it was an amazing experience.
We went from I'd worked on Armistad before that, and
(11:56):
we went straight into Saving Private Ryan. But from a say,
a personal experience point of view, we went from here
to Ireland, took all the equipment with us, and we
were editing in a field in Ireland. And then that
was for the first three weeks of the for the
shooting the opening sequence on the beaches, and then after
(12:17):
three weeks we moved to Hatfield in England to a
facility there which was an old aerospace museum and the
set was built on the on the airfield. So, I
mean everything about that movie was amazing at the time,
(12:38):
and we knew it at the time that we were
very excited to work on the show.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
Did you ever get to actually meet Stephen at any point?
Speaker 5 (12:46):
Yeah, many times. I mean he would come to editing,
usually at lunch time, and we would be ready for him.
We knew it was all set up beforehand, so yeah,
I'd be in the room with Spielberg and we'd be
running on the camp and selecting day. So I made
him on many occasions.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
Yeah, And I mean that obviously one of the most
influential directors of all time. I mean it was just
you know, and again the reason I bring that up
is because of that he is just, you know, one
of the most influential directors of all time.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
And you work with them afterwards on AI, which is
an interesting project I wanted to ask about too. But so, so,
what were some of the things you took away from
working with Spielberg. Was there anything he told you anything
that maybe you know that that he said that you
just sort of like, oh, you know, that's a you know,
you know, when you work with people at that level,
it's sort of like you know what I mean, it's
(13:38):
you're you're looking for something like a almost like a
quote or something that have that epiphany, that aha moment.
Is there anything he sort of said to you that
just sort of still what sticks with you?
Speaker 5 (13:49):
No, I mean I don't really remember anything that that
he said. I mean, it was just an observation of
somebody that can work, that just has such amazing ideas
that can seemingly be manufactured out of nothing. There's one
particular story I talk about, and we were on Minority
(14:10):
Report and we had been editing for a while and
Spielberg was away, I think he was in Japan, and
he called into the editing room with a note of
a picture change to make. And it was not just straightforward,
it was fairly complex. It involved three four shots, and
(14:32):
he said, I believe it will work better. And remember
he's in a remote location, he's in Japan, and we
make the change on the ken and well, not unbelievably
because he's Steven Spielberg. But the change worked exactly the
way he said it would, And it just said to
me that he had some kind of video camera in
(14:56):
his head that was able to actually run the footage
back and then make editing changes in his own head.
And I suppose from that point of view, I was
thinking about, you can imagining the edit is something that
(15:18):
I try and do, and and that was something that
he did, And I suppose that's something that I try
and I try and utilize in my career today. That's
that's the best way I can answer that question answer.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
And Michael, and I wanted to just ask, you know,
a follow up. In editing as a whole, are you
ever given the script, you know, along with the footage
or are you just given like the script script supervisor's notes,
so to speak, when you're when you're actually editing films.
Speaker 5 (15:47):
Oh, I have the I have the the line script.
Each day, the the pages that were shot the day
before come in and they're marked up from the script supervisor.
And I worked with the script as I edit.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
Okay, I always, you know, I like to hear how
different people work, and uh, you know, I've always wondered that,
because I know, I was just reading about how sometimes
you know, scripts are so carefully guarded and you know
what I mean, and it's just sometimes the editor, the editors,
you know, they'll just get you know, notes like that,
or sometimes they'll actually be given the full script so
they can actually just go, you know, read through it.
(16:20):
And I've worked with different line producers too, who sometimes say, look,
I get the script. I don't even read it daved
because I just I just see different things, like you know,
are pulled out of it, and uh, you know what
I mean, and they just go from there. So so
when you're working with you know, Spielberg, you worked with
him again on AI, and I believe that that film
was started by Kubrick, right, and then it was finished
by step Spielberg.
Speaker 5 (16:42):
That's my understanding. I wasn't really involved in in the
Kubrick end of it. I understand that Spielberg and Kubrick
had had a conversation over a number of years about
the making of AI, but I wasn't involved in the
detail of how that came about. I do remember that
(17:03):
we had some footage that Kubrick had shot, and it
was footage of ocean waves and it was going to
be used as an element in the in the Submerged
Manhattan sequence. But as far as the transition of the
director being Kubrick to Spielberg, I wasn't really involved in that,
(17:24):
I see.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
And because I was just always fascinated because you know,
I heard so much about that movie and you know
that it was started by Kubrick and then had to
be finished by Spielberg and h and everything else. And
you know, I actually saw it in a in a
film class I took in college, and I actually liked
it a lot more than other people did because some
people felt it we felt at two different movies coming together. Uh,
(17:46):
when I always said, that's probably what it was, because
it was with Kubrick and and Spielberg. But again, I
just wanted to ask about that because again, you know,
that was a fall up to Spielberg. So just to
sort of, you know, take this in Indie, do your
your career trajectory. You know, when you actually went from
an assistant editor to the actual editor. You know, you've
(18:07):
worked on some pretty cool projects and I want to
talk about, you know, just how you became the editor.
So what point did you realize that you were ready
just to take on all the editing responsibilities and sort
of be like that guy so to speak. You know,
when did you realize that you were you were finally
ready to do all.
Speaker 5 (18:23):
That while it was in It was in two thousand
and four when we finished the terminal and what happened.
I mean you touched on it a little bit earlier.
When you moved countries, you have to restart your career,
and that was definitely my experience. As much as I
was lucky to be picked up by Peter Honees, I
(18:43):
had to spread out my you know, find new contacts,
so essentially I did have to restart my career. And
even even when I went with in with Spielberg's editing crew,
you know, they didn't know me and and I had
to sort of prove myself. So if I'd done you know,
(19:04):
eight years in England and I did another ten years
eight or ten years here, I really felt after that
amount of time I was ready. I mean, usually if
I'd stayed in England, maybe I would have made the
jump sooner. But because I really felt I had to
restart my career in the United States, I was ready
probably sooner than two thousand and four, at the end
(19:25):
of the Terminal, A few things happened. Is that I
moved up within the ranks of that editing room. One
of the assistants who'd been with Michael Kahan before me
moved on to edit himself. So I was able to
move up into a into the first assistant position. And
(19:46):
I felt that I did the terminal and Munich as
the first as actually one of the first assistants. So
at that point I had gone as far as I
was going to go in that editing room.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Be right back after a word from our sponsor, and
now back to the show.
Speaker 5 (20:09):
And I felt again maybe fatalist. I felt that I
could do it, and again I just decided that was
what I was going to do. But in actual facts
it was it was. I did finish the Terminal, I
went and cut a picture, and then I was out
of work for a while, and they offered me to
come back on Munich, which I did, and then I've
(20:32):
been editing ever since then on my own.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
So when you went out on your own, you know,
did you have a reel with you and and say
that two different projects, did you say, listen, I can
I am you know, ready to be the editor now
I mean so. And also at that point, did you
have like a lot of your own tools, meaning that
you know, at your house, do you have like your
own editing bay set up and and and you can
(20:55):
work that way?
Speaker 5 (20:56):
I have done. I sometimes have had and I cut
on my laptop, which is you know I'm talking to
on my laptop right now. I have editing software on
my laptop. I don't always like to do it because
I like the separation between home and work, but I
(21:18):
do have some equipment at home from time to time.
But to go back to your previous question, first part
of your question, I cut a couple of short films
and one of them I cut on film, and then
one of them I cut on a laptop using software
called file Maker Pro. And I use those movies as
(21:39):
a calling card, and they helped me get editing jobs.
Is they certainly helped me get my first feature length movie,
which was a picture called My Bodywood Bride or also
known as My Far Away Bride. But I don't have
an editing set up in my house. No.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
So actually that is a question I want to ask
you too, Michael. It's about actual editing. You know, when
you're actually on a film set or you're actually in
the editing lab, you know, working on this. You know,
ninety nine percent of the films now are all digital.
They're shot you know, with you know, probably one of
you know, twenty cameras, but you know what I mean,
but like versions of cameras, but they're all you know, digital.
You know, you're getting either different cards or you're getting
(22:21):
hard drives, you're getting something. So what do you edit
on now? Is there like a specific editing software like
Avid Premiere that you actually edit on?
Speaker 5 (22:31):
Yes, Avid Media Composer. I've used, as I say, I've
used Final Cup Pro but not for a long time.
But I've used Premiere very minimally, although I'd like to
use it more. But my main tool is Avid Media Composer.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
And why is is Avid? I mean because I've heard
other people using Avid. I'm like a Premier guy. I
actually just downloaded Avid's free. I don't know if you
know this, shob, but Avid just released a complete, one
hundred percent legit free editing software called Avid Media Composer Free.
And it's sort of like a light version of Media Composer,
the pro grade version. And I'm just you know, I
(23:07):
get in there and play around a little bit. It's
I'm so used to Premiere that it's a little there's
obviously a learning curve. But you know what makes avids
like basically what most pro editors want to use.
Speaker 5 (23:18):
Well, that's a that's a tough question. I don't. I mean,
I use it because it's it's always been the system
that's been available. I'm not sure that the tool I
mean I've used. I've done the opposite to you. I've
actually downloaded the free version of Premiere, so I've played
around with Premiere in that sense. But the most honest
(23:41):
answer is that I use Avid Media Media Composer because
it's it's what's been available to me, and that's made
me get used to it, and that now that that's
the reason I'm the most comfortable with with that system.
It's just that's the one that was presented to me.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
I was actually teaching editing courses at a college, which
is a whole another story, by the way, Michael, how
I got into that. We had actually we had a
meeting because one professor wanted me to put in Vegas Studios.
The other professor wanted ADVID Media composer. The other professor
wanted just Windows movie Maker, and then I want a premiere.
(24:20):
So it's kind of like, well, how do you please everybody? Right,
And so the answer was we ended up just going
with premiere and when Windows movie Makers free anyway, and
I think somebody else wanted a final cut. I think
this is what it was. So basically, you know, the
one professor came to me and she goes, oh, I've
worked in different productions and this and that, and she
(24:43):
was getting info from other editors. She wasn't actually an editor. Actually,
I was the only person that's ever actually edited a
movie in the whole room, which was actually kind of funny.
But everybody else just heard things like, oh, this is
what this guy used, and this is what that guy used.
So she was on productions and she was like, well,
I heard from my guy that they only use ADVID
and that's that, and that you shouldn't be using anything else.
And I always like to ask because I always go
(25:04):
back to that because it was actually kind of funny
how we're on a room and we're all just sort
of having a pissing contest which editing software to use, right,
So it's good I always That's why I always ask
that question. And whenever the students, when I actually wouldever,
whenever I would teach, they would go out into the field,
most of them would find that people did you still
(25:24):
use AVID? And then? But I always said, you know,
don't worry about an actual software, worry about the principles
of editing.
Speaker 5 (25:31):
Well, that's that's that's absolutely correct, and that's the reason
I stick with with AVID, although I say, I'm certainly
not against trying out Premiere. It's just that I want
to concentrate on the storytelling aspect of editing rather than
the sort of how do you make a dissolve? Which
button do you push? There was a learning curve in
(25:51):
the transition from editing on film to electronic editing for me,
and I spent you know, a while getting used to
with the AVID. So once I was used to it,
it's sort of it's the devil, you know. And as
I say, just I want to concentrate on the storytelling
aspect rather than the actual software.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
Yeah, I completely agree, one hundred percent. It's all about
the story and telling the best story possible. And I
wanted to talk to you also just you know, about
the hatred obviously, you know, I've been interviewing everybody in
the cast and crew of the of this movie. I
actually talked to a friend of yours, Thomas Fleming. Oh yeah,
and Thomas was like, oh, make sure you talk to
(26:31):
Michael Trent. That guy is amazing. And I was like,
you know what, he's actually next on the list for
me to talk to. So here we are. But I
wanted to ask about the Hatred and about you know,
editing the you know editing that. So, you know, how
did you go about, you know, getting the gig on
this movie.
Speaker 5 (26:50):
While it was a situation where I was, I knew
the director. The director and I met at elementary school.
Not to say that we met when we were eight, nine,
ten eleven. Our sons went to the same elementary school
here in Studio City and in in well, certainly the
(27:14):
Studio City area. Whenever you meet parents, says, there's lots
of people that are involved in the film industry. And
Mike and I were just talking, just standing around and
you know, we ask each other what we did. And
that was a number of years ago. So I met
Mike through our sons at school and had talked for well,
(27:39):
probably a couple of years about filmmaking, and then he
asked me to edit the short film of the Hatred,
which was called Hush, and then we had a certain
amount of success with that, and he asked me to
edit the feature after that. So I didn't actually have
to go out and get the job in this particular instance,
(28:02):
because I already knew the director.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
And yeah, mikey Keyhoe, he's he's everywhere, right, I mean, yeah,
By the way, do you know that the trailer for
the film has over ten million views?
Speaker 5 (28:14):
I did hear that. I got Mike. I didn't know
it was as much as ten million, but Mike Kehoe
called me the other day and said we were up
to seven point four million views. So that's just incredible
that we're at ten million views.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
Yeah, it's I actually saw it go over I think
either on Friday night or last night, which is Saturday.
I saw it roll over to ten million, and I
was like, my god, this is you know, this is
like a juggernaut. So I wanted to ask, you know, Mike,
did you did you edit the trailer as well?
Speaker 5 (28:43):
No, I edited to a version of the trailer, but
I believe the trailer was made at through Lionsgate, and
I believe that's correct. But no, I wasn't involved in
editing of the trailer.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
Okay, I know sometimes the editors don't. Actually there's a
whole different trailer editor and I just wanted to ask,
you know, but so, you know, it's amazing that it's
over ten million views, and uh, you know, obviously when
when this comes out on September the twelfth, you know,
I'm actually you know, interested to see you know how
you know, you know how how you know everyone responds,
and you know, because again, like Mike and I were saying,
(29:20):
he wishes the movie was coming out, you know, this weekend,
because he's like, you know, all these things are happening,
and he goes, now we have a we have a
whole nother month or so before it's actually out.
Speaker 5 (29:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
Yeah, So you know, Mike, I wanted to ask you
about editing The Hatred. When you're actually editing a horror
film like this, do you find that there's a lot
more of I mean, obviously timing is everything, right, So
is there more of a of a timing when you're
doing something like The Hatred with horror rather than maybe
something more like I guess comedic like like Gem and
(29:52):
the Holograms, which you also edited.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
You know, I mean, obviously there are two very different films,
So so obviously is there a lot of like what
are some of the nuances that you have to sort
of go through and you're editing two different films just
like that, just as an example.
Speaker 5 (30:17):
Yeah, there's definitely a difference. I mean with a with
a movie like The Hatred especially, I mean the opening
of the movie, well, the opening of the movie was
I edited with a certain amount of suspense. When we
introduced the girls, I edited, let's say, more of a
(30:37):
normal movie. But when the the the entity starts to
take over, the take over, the take over the house.
But basically you edit to to put it simply to
try and build tension and suspense the shots. I just
keep the shots longer and hold on things a little
(30:59):
bit more that I would certainly with a in an
action movie, or or with a with a comedy. Obviously
comedy is very much tied up with timing as well.
But if I was to put give you the broad strokes,
is I generally hold the shots longer to try and
build tension and suspense with a horror movie.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
So do you sometimes think that, you know? And when
I was getting into editing, I made the mistake of
cutting too much. And what there was actually a professional
editor who once told me, she said, Dave, when you
cut too much like you're doing right now, it gets
a sense like there's a fight back and forth, like
a power struggle. And I and I started because when
when I was acting, when what I was doing was
I was cutting on the dialogue. So as soon as
(31:42):
you were done speaking, cut go to the other person.
And it was like, you know what I mean like
it was and she goes, you see how that feels
like almost like an argument? And I said, yeah, I
get that now, I totally get that. And you know
that that's some of the things that I've picked up
too over the years. That's why I imagine, you know,
when you're when you're doing horror, you have to hold
onto those shots just a little bit more, hold onto
those edit's just a little bit more because you are
(32:05):
trying to build that tension in the suspense.
Speaker 5 (32:07):
That's that's absolutely right. I mean, there was one particular
instance in the in the in the Hatred, and it's
where Alice walks across the room before she's about to
go down into the into the cellar, And we started
that shot and kept it long. It was just so
she could do the whole walk across he goes past
a wall in the room, but we kept the whole
(32:29):
length of the shot and then also down the stairs.
The whole piece was kept almost at full length. And
it's for that exact reason. It was, you know, just
to build, to build that suspense. But definitely, I mean
another example I can I can think of is it
and this was in another movie I think, but it
was a similar kind of genre, but a shadow appears
on the wall, and rather than cut when she walks
(32:51):
through the door, we start on the where the shadow
first appears on the wall and hold that shot all
the way through to when the character walks through the door.
And again with the hope and the aim of creating suspense.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
So, you know, what are someone like the one final
things that you you you hope just to talk about
the hatred, just to sort of like come full circle,
you know what are some of the things that you
you hope people take away from the hatred after they
get after a viewing of it.
Speaker 5 (33:18):
Of the movie, well, I hope they. I hope they're scared,
and I hope they talk about the movie afterwards. If
they if if we put them the audience on the
edge of their seat, then I believe that we've done
our jobs. Uh as long as it's you know, they
they enjoy the movie for those reasons, say and get scared,
(33:41):
then then I'd be very happy.
Speaker 4 (33:45):
So, you know, Mike just sort of just continuing to
talk about editing. You know, what, what are some of
the tips or or principles that you've learned over the years.
You know that you would you could you know, just
sort of give the listeners who are maybe starting to
edit their movies or or maybe just to some thing
that you know, they could use if they're trying to
edit their own movie.
Speaker 5 (34:06):
It's a good question. I think it probably goes largely
goes back to what we were just talking about, is
that you want to to say, first of all, read
read the script or read the scene, and then decide
what the emotion of the scene is. If the emotion
of the scene is a fight, then you would edit
(34:27):
just as you described, you know, cutting very quickly on
the dialogue lines, or even on the dialogue to give
the impression that one person is cutting the other person off.
If it's a romantic scene, again, you you'd roll those
shots out a little bit longer to to create that
that romantic atmosphere. Comedy probably speaks for itself, that is,
(34:52):
you've got to cut to the right reaction after the
right amount of time, after the punchline, and hold on
the punchline for the right amount of time. I think
that these are the things that I've learned the most,
because I think that a lot of editors might have
that tendency, as you just described, to cut too much.
The other thing that you might I often think about
(35:16):
is cutting to reaction shots and what is that person thinking,
What is the opposing person thinking as that dialogue line
is being spoken, and is it is it relevant to
cut to their reaction? And I think it's all about
generating the emotion that's intended by the writer. You know,
(35:37):
that's written down, So I try and emulate what was
originally imagined by the writer.
Speaker 4 (35:49):
And you're always you know, also you talking about reading
the script and about you know, find the essence of
that scene. You know, what's the scene really about You know,
you hear that a lot too in writing, and you
realized just how closely involved editing and uh, writing are
because you know, you're trying to build that same atmosphere
and now you're doing it with the actual footage. While writers,
(36:10):
you know, you're doing it and trying to get people
to imagine this in their head, you know, trying to
get like this a little there's these images and how
everything would pan out in their head. So you know,
when we're they're they're very closely related, and you know,
finding that core of the scene. You know, what's this
scene really about? You know, maybe it's not really about
a fight, that's just the after that's really the the
sort of causation from the actual you know. Uh, I
(36:31):
guess I want to say core of the core of
the problem for you, if you will.
Speaker 5 (36:35):
Mm hmm. That's that's that's correct. I think that you
do work very very very much with the sort of
the writer's intention in mind, or at least my interpretation
of what the writer's intention was, and I edit with
that in mind for sure.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
Yeah. And you know, and that's something too when when
when if you're editing anything, I think you have to
ask yourself those questions, you know, you have to ask
you yourself those you know, why are we even why
is this scene even in here? You know obviously because
somebody once told me about it about you could tell
the difference between a good editor and a great editor
by how how how ruthless they'll cut stuff. And uh,
(37:19):
there was this, There was this one time a friend
of mine was on was telling me that it took
them two days to get this scene right, and the
editor said to them, look, you got to cut it.
And and my friend said, who was the rector? He goes,
but it took us two days to shoot this stupid thing,
And the editor said, uh, yeah, but it has it
adds absolutely nothing to the movie.
Speaker 5 (37:38):
Mm hmmm. I think that that's that that's uh, that's
absolutely right. I think that as an editor you also
have to look at the edit with the big picture
in mind. You you maybe edit a character, but then
also edit that character with the whole story arc of
the movie in mind. So if there's something that's going
(37:59):
to pay off later and and there's a look maybe
that you can hold on to, not to telegra necessarily
telegraph to the audience, but it could be something that
you say you hold on a shot earlier in the
movie which then pays off later. But I think that
definitely you have to edit with the whole movie in mind.
Speaker 4 (38:20):
Yeah, very true.
Speaker 5 (38:21):
And that also that includes that if a scene is
not giving anything to the movie, even if it took
two days to short, then you have to you have
to cut the scene and and and be ruthless about
it if in the big picture, that's that's what's best
for the movie.
Speaker 4 (38:40):
You know, I always watched eleaded scenes off of some
of my favorite movies on like Blu Rayro DVD, and
and when I watched them, I can go, oh, you
know what, now, I see why it's sort of leaded
scene because literally it added nothing to the movie. It
added absolutely nothing, And if you actually put it in
there would have you'll drug it down, yeah, because you
don't want people in the theaters to be checking their
watches going, oh my god, is this thing going to
(39:00):
be over?
Speaker 5 (39:02):
That's exactly right, And that's that's you know, that's the
hope that we can judge what those scenes are and
and take them out for the good of the movie.
Speaker 4 (39:13):
Yeah, and very true. And that's where we want to
make sure the movie just sort of flows all together.
And I think that's what we're all going for, you know,
even when we're running a script or you know, I'm
actually you know, we're all trying to just make sure
that we're a servicing the film as a whole rather
than anyone's you know, ego, so to speak, and to
you know, always making sure that the movie is just
flowing together and not to just to just disjointed. If
(39:37):
I could actually talk, that would actually help dis jointed it. So, Michael,
we've been talking for about, you know, thirty five minutes now,
So just in parting, is is there anything that you
wanted to talk about that we didn't get a chance to,
or maybe just sort of any final thoughts, put a
period end of this whole conversation.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 5 (40:05):
Only that you know, I've been I've been doing this,
this job for a number of years, probably more than
than I care to remember. But it's it's a I
love the job to be. To be an editor is
really for me a satisfying profession. And as the cliche goes,
(40:28):
if you enjoy what you do, then you never work
a day in your life. And that for me about
editing is absolutely true. It's a it's a passion of
mine and something that I enjoy every day. If that's
something I can offer up as a not that it's
always easy. There's periods of unemployment, but if you if
(40:51):
you stick at it, then it's a very satisfying career.
Speaker 4 (40:55):
Yeah, and and that that's a you know, a good
way to to sort of put it in a period.
At the end of this conversation is you have to
do what your life. You have to do what you love. Again,
if I could talk Michael would actually be very helpful,
but but yeah, you have to do what you love.
And you know that that's key to to to to life.
You know, I, you know, in myself included, sometimes I've
just done things or work jobs that you just hate
(41:17):
and you're like, what the hell am I doing to
myself here? So you have to you have to really
love this business to to to to make sure you're
actually you know, you want to do it. And there's
a lot of tests in the way that actually make
sure you're like, are you sure you want to do this?
Speaker 5 (41:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (41:30):
So Michael, work people.
Speaker 5 (41:31):
Find you out online I'm sorry, what was that?
Speaker 4 (41:33):
Where work? Can people find you out online?
Speaker 5 (41:36):
Well? I have my IMDb page, I have a Vimeo
h page also really just Michael Trent, film editor. Google
that and a bunch of my stuff comes up. My
LinkedIn page, my IMDb page, the name of my agent
(42:00):
and Vimeo page also come up. But yeah, google Google
my name and film ed it's here and that's my
online presence and I will link.
Speaker 4 (42:07):
To all of that everyone in the show notes at
Dave Bullets dot com. Twitter, it's at Dave Underscore Bullets,
and the podcast is at dB podcast. Michael Trent, I
want to say thank you so much for coming on,
and you know I'm looking forward to the Hatred.
Speaker 5 (42:22):
Great and thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
a great job on this episode. If you want to
get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
head over to the show notes at Bulletproofscreenwriting dot tv
for it slash for twenty five. Thank you so much
for listening, guys, As always, keep on writing no matter what.
Speaker 4 (42:40):
I'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproof
Screenwriting dot tv.
You are listening to the IFAH podcast Network. For more
amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifahpodcastnetwork dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, episode number four twenty five.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Start writing no matter what. The water does not flow
until the faucet is turned on.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Louis Lemore broadcasting from a dark, windowless room in Hollywood
when we really should be working on that next draft.
It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and
business of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your
screenplay bulletproof.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
I am your humble host Alex Ferrari.
Speaker 5 (00:47):
Now.
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Today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof Script Coverage.
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(01:35):
Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.
Speaker 5 (01:41):
Well, initially it's a family involvement. I mean, my father
was a sound editor in England. He's now retired, so
editing has been something that I grew up with, going
to work with my dad. I've even got pictures of
me back in the late night teen seventies with single
(02:02):
stripe and film in my hands. So it was really
my father that got me involved. But I also did
go to a film school in England, a very small,
relatively unknown one, but it was still a film course
that I did in England. But essentially it was a
family connection, so.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
You're basically born into it, so it was almost like
was in your blood to get into the film industry.
Speaker 5 (02:26):
In lots of ways, yeah, I mean it really was.
It was something that we grew up with on a
you know, really a day to day basis.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
So let me ask you this, is there a difference
of any kind, whether major or minor, between the sort
of the English film industry and the American film industry.
Speaker 5 (02:47):
If there is, I'm not sure that I'm really aware
of it. When I was in England, I worked on
lots of American films anyway, or at least, you know what,
there were finance from the United States, so I couldn't
really tell the difference. I mean, there's there's certainly larger
budgets in the United States, and I did work on
(03:09):
some English films that were of smaller budgets, but no,
as far as the as far as my work experience
is concerned, that there wasn't really a difference, or isn't
really a difference.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
So so when did you first, you know, decide, I mean,
when you were editing actually, let me ask you this,
when you were when you're going back into editing and
you were actually you know, as as you were sort
of born into this, did you have like a movie
old at home or anything else when you were just
sort of cutting your own films together, or maybe even
a Super eight.
Speaker 5 (03:36):
Camera well, no, we didn't have a movie older. They
were quite a big, big machines. But I did get
used to using a movieoda from the age of about
I would say, ten years old, because my father would
bring us into work and and I would get to
use the machinery that and and Steambeck's and flatbed coems.
(04:00):
But we didn't have any equipment at home.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
No, So, Micha, when did you make the trip then
from England to over here to America.
Speaker 5 (04:09):
In nineteen ninety four, So when you came over.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
Did you already have like a few gigs lined up
in like movies to edit?
Speaker 5 (04:17):
No, No, not at all. I was on a movie
that started in England and it was a picture called
We're Back, a Dinosaurs Story. And I was a sound
assistant on that movie, and we were mixing at Twickenham
Studios in England, and the executive producer on the movie
was Steven Spielberg, and he saw the mix from Twickenham
(04:41):
and wanted some changes and decided that it would be
better to bring the movie from England to the United
States to do the final mix at Universal. Actually we
ended up at Toddeo. But actually it's the other way around.
We ended up at Universal. That's how I he came here. Yea,
(05:04):
that was all that was in nineteen ninety three, and
then I met a girl in fact on that movie
and then went back to England. In the meantime we
did the long distance relationship thing, and then I moved
here completely in September of ninety four. But at that
time I had no gigs lined up. When I arrived here,
(05:28):
I really cold called British editors that I'd known in England,
about five of them, and luckily for me, one of
them came back actually with a job offer. So finding
work was initially was I say, relatively easy for me,
just because this particular ready to pick me up and
(05:51):
gave me a job.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
So at that point he knew you, so you didn't
have to like show him like a reel or anything, right,
so he actually knew you from before.
Speaker 5 (05:59):
Yeah, I knew. I knew him from England and he
was a British editor that would works in England and
then was working here. He was working on a picture
picture called Rob Roy for Michael Katon Jones. The editor
was Petere Hones, and I say I knew him from
England and he was one of the people I called
and he just happened to have an opening at that
particular time.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
So just to sort of follow up on that question
and just to sort of, you know, if you're ever going,
because I actually have some friends of mine who've actually
gone from country to country. I think that's a really
incredible feat because if you go to another even if
you're in England, let's say, and you go from maybe
Manchester to London, you know, you're depending behind the size
of the network you might have, you know, no nobody
(06:41):
you know have to actually get your foot in the
door through reels. You know, you're basically starting over from scratch,
you know, and then going from a different country to
another country. I mean, you really either have to a
have a deep network or you have to be able
to just sort of, you know, get your foot in
the door in a lot of places. And I actually
know a couple of people, Michael, who are actually moving
(07:02):
from like different places like Australia to England because they
want to actually get into the British film industry. So
it's just kind of I always kind of find it,
you know, fascinating, because just to be able to do that,
you either have to do one of the one of
those two things, have a deep network or be able
to just knock on ten thousand doors to get one.
Speaker 5 (07:20):
Yes, yeah, well that's right. I mean, you know, when
I look back on it, it was a crazy thing
to do, but I was young at the time and
it it didn't feel scary at the time. It was
just something I wanted to do and for some reason
I felt that it would work out, and to one
(07:41):
extent or another, it has. So I feel very lucky.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
You know, don't you You touched on something too. Do
you feel when you're younger, maybe you know, when you're
first staring out in film, anything's possible, you know, like anything,
you know what I mean, like you could. It just
feels that everything's just going to come together where you're
in a project or have you just go you know what,
I don't you know, damn the people who naysayers and
(08:05):
I don't have a lot of budget. I don't have
a lot of budget. I don't have a lot of
you know whatever. But we're just going to go do something,
you know what I mean? Because I mean honestly, like
I'm thirty two right now, and when I was first
starting out, I would actually go out and shoot a
hell of a lot more than I do. Now you
know what I mean, As a similar effect happened to you, I.
Speaker 5 (08:24):
Think that it was definitely my experience was I didn't
really consider the possibility of failing. And that wasn't any
kind of not meant in an arrogant way. It's just
that I just felt that it would work out. It
was something that I really wanted to do, to move
(08:45):
to the United States and work in film editing, and
it was just something that I felt would work out.
And I wasn't I wasn't scared about it, as I say,
probably foolishly looking back, but I felt it was it
was just something that would just happen. Yeah, there's definitely
(09:06):
a sort of a fatalist element to it. I guess
I just didn't consider what would happen if I failed.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
Yeah, you take quitting and filling off the table, right,
and basically you're like, you don't give yourself a choice.
You just say say to yourself, listen, this is the
you know, I have one option, and this is it
I have to do. Go do this.
Speaker 5 (09:28):
This is what we're doing. That's that's basically was this
is what I'm doing yeah, yeah, and and there was
no considering anything else. So it was just I mean
there's been periods of unemployment in the interim where things
have not you know, always been easy. But initially somebody
was looking after me for sure, and it was Peter Honess.
(09:50):
There's no doubt about that.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
And now back to the show.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
So after that one editing job that we were just discussing,
after that was over, you know, what what did you
do to go out and to try to find like
more assignments and more movies.
Speaker 5 (10:13):
After after Rob Roy Yes, yeah, I was actually Peter
Honess had another movie which we went straight onto, so
I didn't have to do any knocking on doors. We
went straight almost straight onto a movie called Eye for
an Eye that John Schlesinger directed, and again he picked
(10:35):
me up as an assistant editor on that movie. So
we all moved on as a crew. It wasn't immediate,
but it was within a within a month or two,
so we all moved on as a crew.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
So and then then basically did you keep like moving
along with Peter as you as you from project to project?
Speaker 5 (10:52):
We did. We did Rob Roy Eye for an Eye
then we did, I think. Then the next one we
did was l A Confidential in nineteen ninety six, So
those were actually there was three movies that I moved
along with Peter. He hired me on three movies, and
(11:13):
then I went elsewhere after that.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
So after you want, you know, I actually am looking
at your IMDb right now and I have to ask.
You know, you were the assistant editor on Saving Private Ryan.
You know, getting to work with Spielberg and seeing some
of you know, of the footage they first shot and
everything like that. You know, what was it like to
actually work on Saving Private Ryan?
Speaker 5 (11:34):
Oh? Well, that was It was an incredible experience from
lots of points of view. First of all, we knew
I'd read the script, so I knew it was going
to be an amazing script, an amazing movie. But from
a personal point of view, it was an amazing experience.
We went from I'd worked on Armistad before that, and
(11:56):
we went straight into Saving Private Ryan. But from a say,
a personal experience point of view, we went from here
to Ireland, took all the equipment with us, and we
were editing in a field in Ireland. And then that
was for the first three weeks of the for the
shooting the opening sequence on the beaches, and then after
(12:17):
three weeks we moved to Hatfield in England to a
facility there which was an old aerospace museum and the
set was built on the on the airfield. So, I
mean everything about that movie was amazing at the time,
(12:38):
and we knew it at the time that we were
very excited to work on the show.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
Did you ever get to actually meet Stephen at any point?
Speaker 5 (12:46):
Yeah, many times. I mean he would come to editing,
usually at lunch time, and we would be ready for him.
We knew it was all set up beforehand, so yeah,
I'd be in the room with Spielberg and we'd be
running on the camp and selecting day. So I made
him on many occasions.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
Yeah, And I mean that obviously one of the most
influential directors of all time. I mean it was just
you know, and again the reason I bring that up
is because of that he is just, you know, one
of the most influential directors of all time.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
And you work with them afterwards on AI, which is
an interesting project I wanted to ask about too. But so, so,
what were some of the things you took away from
working with Spielberg. Was there anything he told you anything
that maybe you know that that he said that you
just sort of like, oh, you know, that's a you know,
you know, when you work with people at that level,
it's sort of like you know what I mean, it's
(13:38):
you're you're looking for something like a almost like a
quote or something that have that epiphany, that aha moment.
Is there anything he sort of said to you that
just sort of still what sticks with you?
Speaker 5 (13:49):
No, I mean I don't really remember anything that that
he said. I mean, it was just an observation of
somebody that can work, that just has such amazing ideas
that can seemingly be manufactured out of nothing. There's one
particular story I talk about, and we were on Minority
(14:10):
Report and we had been editing for a while and
Spielberg was away, I think he was in Japan, and
he called into the editing room with a note of
a picture change to make. And it was not just straightforward,
it was fairly complex. It involved three four shots, and
(14:32):
he said, I believe it will work better. And remember
he's in a remote location, he's in Japan, and we
make the change on the ken and well, not unbelievably
because he's Steven Spielberg. But the change worked exactly the
way he said it would, And it just said to
me that he had some kind of video camera in
(14:56):
his head that was able to actually run the footage
back and then make editing changes in his own head.
And I suppose from that point of view, I was
thinking about, you can imagining the edit is something that
(15:18):
I try and do, and and that was something that
he did, And I suppose that's something that I try
and I try and utilize in my career today. That's
that's the best way I can answer that question answer.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
And Michael, and I wanted to just ask, you know,
a follow up. In editing as a whole, are you
ever given the script, you know, along with the footage
or are you just given like the script script supervisor's notes,
so to speak, when you're when you're actually editing films.
Speaker 5 (15:47):
Oh, I have the I have the the line script.
Each day, the the pages that were shot the day
before come in and they're marked up from the script supervisor.
And I worked with the script as I edit.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
Okay, I always, you know, I like to hear how
different people work, and uh, you know, I've always wondered that,
because I know, I was just reading about how sometimes
you know, scripts are so carefully guarded and you know
what I mean, and it's just sometimes the editor, the editors,
you know, they'll just get you know, notes like that,
or sometimes they'll actually be given the full script so
they can actually just go, you know, read through it.
(16:20):
And I've worked with different line producers too, who sometimes say, look,
I get the script. I don't even read it daved
because I just I just see different things, like you know,
are pulled out of it, and uh, you know what
I mean, and they just go from there. So so
when you're working with you know, Spielberg, you worked with
him again on AI, and I believe that that film
was started by Kubrick, right, and then it was finished
by step Spielberg.
Speaker 5 (16:42):
That's my understanding. I wasn't really involved in in the
Kubrick end of it. I understand that Spielberg and Kubrick
had had a conversation over a number of years about
the making of AI, but I wasn't involved in the
detail of how that came about. I do remember that
(17:03):
we had some footage that Kubrick had shot, and it
was footage of ocean waves and it was going to
be used as an element in the in the Submerged
Manhattan sequence. But as far as the transition of the
director being Kubrick to Spielberg, I wasn't really involved in that,
(17:24):
I see.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
And because I was just always fascinated because you know,
I heard so much about that movie and you know
that it was started by Kubrick and then had to
be finished by Spielberg and h and everything else. And
you know, I actually saw it in a in a
film class I took in college, and I actually liked
it a lot more than other people did because some
people felt it we felt at two different movies coming together. Uh,
(17:46):
when I always said, that's probably what it was, because
it was with Kubrick and and Spielberg. But again, I
just wanted to ask about that because again, you know,
that was a fall up to Spielberg. So just to
sort of, you know, take this in Indie, do your
your career trajectory. You know, when you actually went from
an assistant editor to the actual editor. You know, you've
(18:07):
worked on some pretty cool projects and I want to
talk about, you know, just how you became the editor.
So what point did you realize that you were ready
just to take on all the editing responsibilities and sort
of be like that guy so to speak. You know,
when did you realize that you were you were finally
ready to do all.
Speaker 5 (18:23):
That while it was in It was in two thousand
and four when we finished the terminal and what happened.
I mean you touched on it a little bit earlier.
When you moved countries, you have to restart your career,
and that was definitely my experience. As much as I
was lucky to be picked up by Peter Honees, I
(18:43):
had to spread out my you know, find new contacts,
so essentially I did have to restart my career. And
even even when I went with in with Spielberg's editing crew,
you know, they didn't know me and and I had
to sort of prove myself. So if I'd done you know,
(19:04):
eight years in England and I did another ten years
eight or ten years here, I really felt after that
amount of time I was ready. I mean, usually if
I'd stayed in England, maybe I would have made the
jump sooner. But because I really felt I had to
restart my career in the United States, I was ready
probably sooner than two thousand and four, at the end
(19:25):
of the Terminal, A few things happened. Is that I
moved up within the ranks of that editing room. One
of the assistants who'd been with Michael Kahan before me
moved on to edit himself. So I was able to
move up into a into the first assistant position. And
(19:46):
I felt that I did the terminal and Munich as
the first as actually one of the first assistants. So
at that point I had gone as far as I
was going to go in that editing room.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Be right back after a word from our sponsor, and
now back to the show.
Speaker 5 (20:09):
And I felt again maybe fatalist. I felt that I
could do it, and again I just decided that was
what I was going to do. But in actual facts
it was it was. I did finish the Terminal, I
went and cut a picture, and then I was out
of work for a while, and they offered me to
come back on Munich, which I did, and then I've
(20:32):
been editing ever since then on my own.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
So when you went out on your own, you know,
did you have a reel with you and and say
that two different projects, did you say, listen, I can
I am you know, ready to be the editor now
I mean so. And also at that point, did you
have like a lot of your own tools, meaning that
you know, at your house, do you have like your
own editing bay set up and and and you can
(20:55):
work that way?
Speaker 5 (20:56):
I have done. I sometimes have had and I cut
on my laptop, which is you know I'm talking to
on my laptop right now. I have editing software on
my laptop. I don't always like to do it because
I like the separation between home and work, but I
(21:18):
do have some equipment at home from time to time.
But to go back to your previous question, first part
of your question, I cut a couple of short films
and one of them I cut on film, and then
one of them I cut on a laptop using software
called file Maker Pro. And I use those movies as
(21:39):
a calling card, and they helped me get editing jobs.
Is they certainly helped me get my first feature length movie,
which was a picture called My Bodywood Bride or also
known as My Far Away Bride. But I don't have
an editing set up in my house. No.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
So actually that is a question I want to ask
you too, Michael. It's about actual editing. You know, when
you're actually on a film set or you're actually in
the editing lab, you know, working on this. You know,
ninety nine percent of the films now are all digital.
They're shot you know, with you know, probably one of
you know, twenty cameras, but you know what I mean,
but like versions of cameras, but they're all you know, digital.
You know, you're getting either different cards or you're getting
(22:21):
hard drives, you're getting something. So what do you edit
on now? Is there like a specific editing software like
Avid Premiere that you actually edit on?
Speaker 5 (22:31):
Yes, Avid Media Composer. I've used, as I say, I've
used Final Cup Pro but not for a long time.
But I've used Premiere very minimally, although I'd like to
use it more. But my main tool is Avid Media Composer.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
And why is is Avid? I mean because I've heard
other people using Avid. I'm like a Premier guy. I
actually just downloaded Avid's free. I don't know if you
know this, shob, but Avid just released a complete, one
hundred percent legit free editing software called Avid Media Composer Free.
And it's sort of like a light version of Media Composer,
the pro grade version. And I'm just you know, I
(23:07):
get in there and play around a little bit. It's
I'm so used to Premiere that it's a little there's
obviously a learning curve. But you know what makes avids
like basically what most pro editors want to use.
Speaker 5 (23:18):
Well, that's a that's a tough question. I don't. I mean,
I use it because it's it's always been the system
that's been available. I'm not sure that the tool I
mean I've used. I've done the opposite to you. I've
actually downloaded the free version of Premiere, so I've played
around with Premiere in that sense. But the most honest
(23:41):
answer is that I use Avid Media Media Composer because
it's it's what's been available to me, and that's made
me get used to it, and that now that that's
the reason I'm the most comfortable with with that system.
It's just that's the one that was presented to me.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
I was actually teaching editing courses at a college, which
is a whole another story, by the way, Michael, how
I got into that. We had actually we had a
meeting because one professor wanted me to put in Vegas Studios.
The other professor wanted ADVID Media composer. The other professor
wanted just Windows movie Maker, and then I want a premiere.
(24:20):
So it's kind of like, well, how do you please everybody? Right,
And so the answer was we ended up just going
with premiere and when Windows movie Makers free anyway, and
I think somebody else wanted a final cut. I think
this is what it was. So basically, you know, the
one professor came to me and she goes, oh, I've
worked in different productions and this and that, and she
(24:43):
was getting info from other editors. She wasn't actually an editor. Actually,
I was the only person that's ever actually edited a
movie in the whole room, which was actually kind of funny.
But everybody else just heard things like, oh, this is
what this guy used, and this is what that guy used.
So she was on productions and she was like, well,
I heard from my guy that they only use ADVID
and that's that, and that you shouldn't be using anything else.
And I always like to ask because I always go
(25:04):
back to that because it was actually kind of funny
how we're on a room and we're all just sort
of having a pissing contest which editing software to use, right,
So it's good I always That's why I always ask
that question. And whenever the students, when I actually wouldever,
whenever I would teach, they would go out into the field,
most of them would find that people did you still
(25:24):
use AVID? And then? But I always said, you know,
don't worry about an actual software, worry about the principles
of editing.
Speaker 5 (25:31):
Well, that's that's that's absolutely correct, and that's the reason
I stick with with AVID, although I say, I'm certainly
not against trying out Premiere. It's just that I want
to concentrate on the storytelling aspect of editing rather than
the sort of how do you make a dissolve? Which
button do you push? There was a learning curve in
(25:51):
the transition from editing on film to electronic editing for me,
and I spent you know, a while getting used to
with the AVID. So once I was used to it,
it's sort of it's the devil, you know. And as
I say, just I want to concentrate on the storytelling
aspect rather than the actual software.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
Yeah, I completely agree, one hundred percent. It's all about
the story and telling the best story possible. And I
wanted to talk to you also just you know, about
the hatred obviously, you know, I've been interviewing everybody in
the cast and crew of the of this movie. I
actually talked to a friend of yours, Thomas Fleming. Oh yeah,
and Thomas was like, oh, make sure you talk to
(26:31):
Michael Trent. That guy is amazing. And I was like,
you know what, he's actually next on the list for
me to talk to. So here we are. But I
wanted to ask about the Hatred and about you know,
editing the you know editing that. So, you know, how
did you go about, you know, getting the gig on
this movie.
Speaker 5 (26:50):
While it was a situation where I was, I knew
the director. The director and I met at elementary school.
Not to say that we met when we were eight, nine,
ten eleven. Our sons went to the same elementary school
here in Studio City and in in well, certainly the
(27:14):
Studio City area. Whenever you meet parents, says, there's lots
of people that are involved in the film industry. And
Mike and I were just talking, just standing around and
you know, we ask each other what we did. And
that was a number of years ago. So I met
Mike through our sons at school and had talked for well,
(27:39):
probably a couple of years about filmmaking, and then he
asked me to edit the short film of the Hatred,
which was called Hush, and then we had a certain
amount of success with that, and he asked me to
edit the feature after that. So I didn't actually have
to go out and get the job in this particular instance,
(28:02):
because I already knew the director.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
And yeah, mikey Keyhoe, he's he's everywhere, right, I mean, yeah,
By the way, do you know that the trailer for
the film has over ten million views?
Speaker 5 (28:14):
I did hear that. I got Mike. I didn't know
it was as much as ten million, but Mike Kehoe
called me the other day and said we were up
to seven point four million views. So that's just incredible
that we're at ten million views.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
Yeah, it's I actually saw it go over I think
either on Friday night or last night, which is Saturday.
I saw it roll over to ten million, and I
was like, my god, this is you know, this is
like a juggernaut. So I wanted to ask, you know, Mike,
did you did you edit the trailer as well?
Speaker 5 (28:43):
No, I edited to a version of the trailer, but
I believe the trailer was made at through Lionsgate, and
I believe that's correct. But no, I wasn't involved in
editing of the trailer.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
Okay, I know sometimes the editors don't. Actually there's a
whole different trailer editor and I just wanted to ask,
you know, but so, you know, it's amazing that it's
over ten million views, and uh, you know, obviously when
when this comes out on September the twelfth, you know,
I'm actually you know, interested to see you know how
you know, you know how how you know everyone responds,
and you know, because again, like Mike and I were saying,
(29:20):
he wishes the movie was coming out, you know, this weekend,
because he's like, you know, all these things are happening,
and he goes, now we have a we have a
whole nother month or so before it's actually out.
Speaker 5 (29:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
Yeah, So you know, Mike, I wanted to ask you
about editing The Hatred. When you're actually editing a horror
film like this, do you find that there's a lot
more of I mean, obviously timing is everything, right, So
is there more of a of a timing when you're
doing something like The Hatred with horror rather than maybe
something more like I guess comedic like like Gem and
(29:52):
the Holograms, which you also edited.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
You know, I mean, obviously there are two very different films,
So so obviously is there a lot of like what
are some of the nuances that you have to sort
of go through and you're editing two different films just
like that, just as an example.
Speaker 5 (30:17):
Yeah, there's definitely a difference. I mean with a with
a movie like The Hatred especially, I mean the opening
of the movie, well, the opening of the movie was
I edited with a certain amount of suspense. When we
introduced the girls, I edited, let's say, more of a
(30:37):
normal movie. But when the the the entity starts to
take over, the take over, the take over the house.
But basically you edit to to put it simply to
try and build tension and suspense the shots. I just
keep the shots longer and hold on things a little
(30:59):
bit more that I would certainly with a in an
action movie, or or with a with a comedy. Obviously
comedy is very much tied up with timing as well.
But if I was to put give you the broad strokes,
is I generally hold the shots longer to try and
build tension and suspense with a horror movie.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
So do you sometimes think that, you know? And when
I was getting into editing, I made the mistake of
cutting too much. And what there was actually a professional
editor who once told me, she said, Dave, when you
cut too much like you're doing right now, it gets
a sense like there's a fight back and forth, like
a power struggle. And I and I started because when
when I was acting, when what I was doing was
I was cutting on the dialogue. So as soon as
(31:42):
you were done speaking, cut go to the other person.
And it was like, you know what I mean like
it was and she goes, you see how that feels
like almost like an argument? And I said, yeah, I
get that now, I totally get that. And you know
that that's some of the things that I've picked up
too over the years. That's why I imagine, you know,
when you're when you're doing horror, you have to hold
onto those shots just a little bit more, hold onto
those edit's just a little bit more because you are
(32:05):
trying to build that tension in the suspense.
Speaker 5 (32:07):
That's that's absolutely right. I mean, there was one particular
instance in the in the in the Hatred, and it's
where Alice walks across the room before she's about to
go down into the into the cellar, And we started
that shot and kept it long. It was just so
she could do the whole walk across he goes past
a wall in the room, but we kept the whole
(32:29):
length of the shot and then also down the stairs.
The whole piece was kept almost at full length. And
it's for that exact reason. It was, you know, just
to build, to build that suspense. But definitely, I mean
another example I can I can think of is it
and this was in another movie I think, but it
was a similar kind of genre, but a shadow appears
on the wall, and rather than cut when she walks
(32:51):
through the door, we start on the where the shadow
first appears on the wall and hold that shot all
the way through to when the character walks through the door.
And again with the hope and the aim of creating suspense.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
So, you know, what are someone like the one final
things that you you you hope just to talk about
the hatred, just to sort of like come full circle,
you know what are some of the things that you
you hope people take away from the hatred after they
get after a viewing of it.
Speaker 5 (33:18):
Of the movie, well, I hope they. I hope they're scared,
and I hope they talk about the movie afterwards. If
they if if we put them the audience on the
edge of their seat, then I believe that we've done
our jobs. Uh as long as it's you know, they
they enjoy the movie for those reasons, say and get scared,
(33:41):
then then I'd be very happy.
Speaker 4 (33:45):
So, you know, Mike just sort of just continuing to
talk about editing. You know, what, what are some of
the tips or or principles that you've learned over the years.
You know that you would you could you know, just
sort of give the listeners who are maybe starting to
edit their movies or or maybe just to some thing
that you know, they could use if they're trying to
edit their own movie.
Speaker 5 (34:06):
It's a good question. I think it probably goes largely
goes back to what we were just talking about, is
that you want to to say, first of all, read
read the script or read the scene, and then decide
what the emotion of the scene is. If the emotion
of the scene is a fight, then you would edit
(34:27):
just as you described, you know, cutting very quickly on
the dialogue lines, or even on the dialogue to give
the impression that one person is cutting the other person off.
If it's a romantic scene, again, you you'd roll those
shots out a little bit longer to to create that
that romantic atmosphere. Comedy probably speaks for itself, that is,
(34:52):
you've got to cut to the right reaction after the
right amount of time, after the punchline, and hold on
the punchline for the right amount of time. I think
that these are the things that I've learned the most,
because I think that a lot of editors might have
that tendency, as you just described, to cut too much.
The other thing that you might I often think about
(35:16):
is cutting to reaction shots and what is that person thinking,
What is the opposing person thinking as that dialogue line
is being spoken, and is it is it relevant to
cut to their reaction? And I think it's all about
generating the emotion that's intended by the writer. You know,
(35:37):
that's written down, So I try and emulate what was
originally imagined by the writer.
Speaker 4 (35:49):
And you're always you know, also you talking about reading
the script and about you know, find the essence of
that scene. You know, what's the scene really about You know,
you hear that a lot too in writing, and you
realized just how closely involved editing and uh, writing are
because you know, you're trying to build that same atmosphere
and now you're doing it with the actual footage. While writers,
(36:10):
you know, you're doing it and trying to get people
to imagine this in their head, you know, trying to
get like this a little there's these images and how
everything would pan out in their head. So you know,
when we're they're they're very closely related, and you know,
finding that core of the scene. You know, what's this
scene really about? You know, maybe it's not really about
a fight, that's just the after that's really the the
sort of causation from the actual you know. Uh, I
(36:31):
guess I want to say core of the core of
the problem for you, if you will.
Speaker 5 (36:35):
Mm hmm. That's that's that's correct. I think that you
do work very very very much with the sort of
the writer's intention in mind, or at least my interpretation
of what the writer's intention was, and I edit with
that in mind for sure.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
Yeah. And you know, and that's something too when when
when if you're editing anything, I think you have to
ask yourself those questions, you know, you have to ask
you yourself those you know, why are we even why
is this scene even in here? You know obviously because
somebody once told me about it about you could tell
the difference between a good editor and a great editor
by how how how ruthless they'll cut stuff. And uh,
(37:19):
there was this, There was this one time a friend
of mine was on was telling me that it took
them two days to get this scene right, and the
editor said to them, look, you got to cut it.
And and my friend said, who was the rector? He goes,
but it took us two days to shoot this stupid thing,
And the editor said, uh, yeah, but it has it
adds absolutely nothing to the movie.
Speaker 5 (37:38):
Mm hmmm. I think that that's that that's uh, that's
absolutely right. I think that as an editor you also
have to look at the edit with the big picture
in mind. You you maybe edit a character, but then
also edit that character with the whole story arc of
the movie in mind. So if there's something that's going
(37:59):
to pay off later and and there's a look maybe
that you can hold on to, not to telegra necessarily
telegraph to the audience, but it could be something that
you say you hold on a shot earlier in the
movie which then pays off later. But I think that
definitely you have to edit with the whole movie in mind.
Speaker 4 (38:20):
Yeah, very true.
Speaker 5 (38:21):
And that also that includes that if a scene is
not giving anything to the movie, even if it took
two days to short, then you have to you have
to cut the scene and and and be ruthless about
it if in the big picture, that's that's what's best
for the movie.
Speaker 4 (38:40):
You know, I always watched eleaded scenes off of some
of my favorite movies on like Blu Rayro DVD, and
and when I watched them, I can go, oh, you
know what, now, I see why it's sort of leaded
scene because literally it added nothing to the movie. It
added absolutely nothing, And if you actually put it in
there would have you'll drug it down, yeah, because you
don't want people in the theaters to be checking their
watches going, oh my god, is this thing going to
(39:00):
be over?
Speaker 5 (39:02):
That's exactly right, And that's that's you know, that's the
hope that we can judge what those scenes are and
and take them out for the good of the movie.
Speaker 4 (39:13):
Yeah, and very true. And that's where we want to
make sure the movie just sort of flows all together.
And I think that's what we're all going for, you know,
even when we're running a script or you know, I'm
actually you know, we're all trying to just make sure
that we're a servicing the film as a whole rather
than anyone's you know, ego, so to speak, and to
you know, always making sure that the movie is just
flowing together and not to just to just disjointed. If
(39:37):
I could actually talk, that would actually help dis jointed it. So, Michael,
we've been talking for about, you know, thirty five minutes now,
So just in parting, is is there anything that you
wanted to talk about that we didn't get a chance to,
or maybe just sort of any final thoughts, put a
period end of this whole conversation.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 5 (40:05):
Only that you know, I've been I've been doing this,
this job for a number of years, probably more than
than I care to remember. But it's it's a I
love the job to be. To be an editor is
really for me a satisfying profession. And as the cliche goes,
(40:28):
if you enjoy what you do, then you never work
a day in your life. And that for me about
editing is absolutely true. It's a it's a passion of
mine and something that I enjoy every day. If that's
something I can offer up as a not that it's
always easy. There's periods of unemployment, but if you if
(40:51):
you stick at it, then it's a very satisfying career.
Speaker 4 (40:55):
Yeah, and and that that's a you know, a good
way to to sort of put it in a period.
At the end of this conversation is you have to
do what your life. You have to do what you love. Again,
if I could talk Michael would actually be very helpful,
but but yeah, you have to do what you love.
And you know that that's key to to to to life.
You know, I, you know, in myself included, sometimes I've
just done things or work jobs that you just hate
(41:17):
and you're like, what the hell am I doing to
myself here? So you have to you have to really
love this business to to to to make sure you're
actually you know, you want to do it. And there's
a lot of tests in the way that actually make
sure you're like, are you sure you want to do this?
Speaker 5 (41:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (41:30):
So Michael, work people.
Speaker 5 (41:31):
Find you out online I'm sorry, what was that?
Speaker 4 (41:33):
Where work? Can people find you out online?
Speaker 5 (41:36):
Well? I have my IMDb page, I have a Vimeo
h page also really just Michael Trent, film editor. Google
that and a bunch of my stuff comes up. My
LinkedIn page, my IMDb page, the name of my agent
(42:00):
and Vimeo page also come up. But yeah, google Google
my name and film ed it's here and that's my
online presence and I will link.
Speaker 4 (42:07):
To all of that everyone in the show notes at
Dave Bullets dot com. Twitter, it's at Dave Underscore Bullets,
and the podcast is at dB podcast. Michael Trent, I
want to say thank you so much for coming on,
and you know I'm looking forward to the Hatred.
Speaker 5 (42:22):
Great and thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
a great job on this episode. If you want to
get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
head over to the show notes at Bulletproofscreenwriting dot tv
for it slash for twenty five. Thank you so much
for listening, guys, As always, keep on writing no matter what.
Speaker 4 (42:40):
I'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproof
Screenwriting dot tv.
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