August 7, 2025 • 37 mins
In this episode, screenwriter and filmmaker S.S. Wilson shares the behind-the-scenes journey of creating the cult classic Tremors, revealing how creative limitations, meticulous story structure, and a deep respect for character and sound design brought the film to life. From his writing process with partner Brent Maddock to the evolution of the Tremors franchise and his advice for aspiring filmmakers, Wilson offers a masterclass in crafting compelling, low-budget cinema with heart and precision.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
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Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number four thirty one.
Your dream doesn't have an expiration date, Take a deep
breath and try again. KT Whitten broadcasting from a dark,
windowless room in Hollywood.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
When we really should be working on that next draft.
It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and
business of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your
screenplay bulletproof.
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And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to another
episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
I am your.
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Humble host Alex Ferrari.
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Now, today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof Script Coverage.
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(01:37):
Dave Bulliss.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
My guest on today's episode has one of the most
successful horror franchises of all time, whether you've seen the
first Tremors or whether you've seen any of the other Tremors,
or even the TV series or even the new TV
series that's coming out. He doesn't have anything to do
with the new TV series coming out, but still it's
based off of his of his concepts. You know, there's
(01:59):
a lot to be glean this episode because when they
made Tremors one, you know, they had to watch their
budget because so what do they do well? They put
their monster offscreen and underground. Then at the right moment
of the reveal, you know, it's revealing in stages and
stuff like that. It kind of reminds me of Reservoir docs.
You know, I was watching that again, Reservoir adults. You
never see the bank robbery. And I think the main
(02:20):
reason for that is it's not only a really nice
creative choice, but also because it saves money. You know,
when when you're making these first movies, you know, the
creative choices have to rule the day. So again, this
is what this was all about, you know, is making
a monster movie where they can control the rights and
you know, keep everything on the budget.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
So how do you do that?
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Well, we're gonna find out today with guests s S. Wilson. Hey, Steve,
thanks off for coming on the show.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
Sir, You're welcome. You're welcome.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
So, you know, Steve, just to get started, I wanted
to ask what got you into the film industry. Was it,
you know, did you like films as you know, growing
up or is it just sort of one of those
things where one day you found yourself, you know, sort
of writing screenplays or on set somewhere well as a
tense to happen.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Right, My story is a little different. I did love films.
I was a huge film buff as a kid, and
my dad supported that and early on when I was
I don't know, ten or eleven, he bought a eight
millimeter camera and I was one of those kids who
made movies in the backyard and tried to do special
effects with gunpowder and gasoline, which he also supported, interestingly,
(03:29):
you know. And then my dad, then when I went
off to college, actually changed my life. I went off
to college and I don't know what I should do.
I guess I'll be a psychologist like my dad. That's
what he was. And he came up after I'd been
there a week or so, he said, you know, what
are your courses? And I said, that is what I
(03:49):
signed up for. And he said, well, this makes no
sense even making movies in the backyard for ten years.
What's going on? And he went to my advisors and
he said, do you have anything like film or movies
of television? And he changed my whole course schedule. This
is absolutely true. And I had never thought about actually
trying to do it for a living, even though I'd
been making movies for years and years and doing stop
motion animation. And then I, you know, I never looked back.
(04:12):
I went, oh, well yeah, because then you know, then
there were people in the in the departments. You know,
we didn't have much of a film program at Penn
State all those years ago, like one television course and
like two film courses and had to borrow cameras from
the local PBS station whatnot. But uh, yeah, but that's
what happened. And then I, uh, then I got drafted
(04:34):
that I went to USC Film graduate School and uh
and there met a lot of the people that I
still work with. And even though it took almost ten
years from graduating USC to actually break in and make
short Circuit, we were working in the film business making
short films and little short animated things and films for
(04:58):
schools and libraries, TV commercials and whatnot.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
You know, it's funny, Steve, that your your dad was
able to change your whole curriculum because uh, you know,
I actually used to work at a college and grades
and all that stuff were so secretive.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
They actually fired a professor one time because he told
a student's father what he got in the class as
a final grade before the kid with the kid did
and they actually just fired the professor on the spot
because of it. Wow. Yeah, it's just but no, that
just it's funny, though, you know, it's funny how college
has changed so much. But but you know, you went
(05:34):
to Penn State, and you know I've actually, you know,
been up there. I actually attended a Penn State football game.
I didn't go there for college, but you know i've
been there once. Small world, right, because you're out in
LA now.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Right, I'm actually I live in Arizona.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Oh okay, you know, I actually have a few friends
out there.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
To go to LA went as needed.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
I see. So, you know, just to ask this penns
they'd ever asked you to come back to talk about
screenwriting or directing or anything.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
I've been bad. It's funny, ironic timing.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
You know.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
They occasionally send me alumni stuff. I've never let them
even know what I do. I should do that, but no,
they haven't. They haven't tracked me. Now, they have no
idea you know who I am. I was kind of
an invisible student, geeky guy, and I just went through
and left.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Well, I thought me they'd have some kind of alumni
you know, sort of headhunter trying to kept tracking all
this stuff.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
You know, but I've never responded to any of it.
So I really actually have it on my desk as
we speak. I said I should let them know. They
probably would like to.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Know well, then you know, you could just send on
this podcast instead to go back. Just listen to this podcast.
I'm talking to Dave. So you know you brought up
Short Circuit, by the way. I watched that movie religiously
as a kid, by the way, So I want to
ask you know about your whole writing style. I'm actually
always fascinated by people's writing styles and their approach to
(07:04):
their own art. So I wanted to ask you, Steve,
how do you approach writing? You know, do you subscribe
to any sort of methods. Do you do very long
treatments first, or do you just sort of jump right
into writing.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
Brent and I, who have written practically everything together at
least certainly everything has been made, and we've been working
since the days at USC, both in the short films
and then we wrote Short Circuit, which was our big break.
We have a very Our approach is outline, outline, outline.
(07:37):
We don't normally write a treatment for tremors. We did
only because we were trying to sell it and we
couldn't sell it as a pitch for because well we couldn't,
and that didn't The treatment didn't sell either, by the way.
But let me go back so we outline in great detail.
We are not comfortable until we know where the story
is going. And we're very story oriented. Some people can start,
(08:02):
you know, sort of with a character. Don't just say, oh,
there's this character and he's a drug addict and he's
got these problems and I'm just gonna think about what
he does because he's a drug addict. We can't do that.
We got to know where we're going. So and we
can't really get excited about something until we know where
we're going, even if it's a rewrite, which you know,
you get offered quite a bit in Hollywood's pretty much
(08:22):
all Hollywood doesn't anymore, even if it's a rewrite. We
will sit down before we even say yes to a job.
We'll say, okay, we got to go through this movie
figure out what we would change, or maybe they're telling
us what they want change. We got to be sure
that we can make that work, and we got to
know where it's going because your ending is is so
important in a movie in our opinion. In fact, somebody
(08:45):
well known, maybe one of the Zucker brothers, said your
ending is fifty percent of a movie. Somebody said that,
and we kind of believe that, so we gotta know
where we're going, what the surprises are, where the twists
and turns are. So long answer to that question is
we outline like crazy. In fact, we used to drive
studios crazy. And back in the day, early on when
we were getting started, you used to get twelve weeks
(09:09):
was a normal time to write a script, and we
would outline for eight and they'd be calling us him
so you're writing, are you writing well now? Or so
outlining They're like, are you out of your mind? But
then we would write it and you know, four weeks
because it was done.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
So you know, you mentioned tremors when you finally started outlining.
You know, did was there ever a sort of an
impetus for that movie where you said, you know what
this is where we want to take it? So you know,
you know what I mean? So we already know, you
know what the monster is going to be, and we
sort of know where the location is going to be.
It's going to be a perfection. Did was that a
part of it or did that sort of come in
(09:48):
during the outlining phase.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
and now back to the show.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
Well, there again, we outlined it in great detail, worked
on it with Ron Underwood, because the goal with Tremors
was to become producers. We were frustrated that everything we
had written up till then we discovered naive that we
writers that we were, that writers aren't really welcome on
this slin. Once you're done with this script, they don't
(10:20):
want to hear from you again. And we would go
to movies and that we had written and go, boy,
that's that's not what I would have done. And our
agent told us, well, look, you guys want to produce,
then you want control, and to get that, you're going
to have to control the material from the get go.
You can't be rewriting the studio's material. Blah blah blah.
So she said, what do you have in your portfolio
(10:41):
and your piles of notes? And we came up with
We came out of our piles of notes with we
got this underground monster idea. And she said, that's kind
of cool. I've never heard of that before. And so
first we sat down Bronto, we outlined the whole story,
figured out who the characters were, where it was going
to go, and then we pitched it all over town.
(11:03):
Couldn't sell it and then she said, well, let's uh,
maybe she should write a treatment, very detailed, like twenty five
page treatment. Did not sell send it to everybody. So
she said, well, I guess you're going to have to
write it on spec. So in between, you know, the
regular Hollywood movies we were writing, we were writing Tremors
on spec. And uh then took that all over town
(11:26):
and there was it was a huge Our agent was
a huge part of getting this done. She was central.
We call her the mother of Tremors. This is Nancy
Roberts later our partner in Stampede Entertainment. Uh Uh. She
handpicked you know who this script was going to. She
did what an agent really is supposed to do. She
handpicked who the script, and she knew the studio people.
(11:47):
She told us in advance what they were going to say.
You know, there were there were situations where because of
her relationships, there were certain times if she had a
spec script, she couldn't not show it to certain people
because then they would be mad that they were shut
out of the process. So she said, Okay, this is
gonna be weird. I have to send this to Disney.
They are going to stay we we hate this because
(12:11):
it's got so much dust in it. They had dusts
and we're like what, Sure enough, that's exactly what came back.
And all of this was of course off the record,
you know, under the wire. But she got off the phone.
I think I was there at some point. No, No,
she was on the phone to somebody Disney, and they
were passing in a very polite way. Well, it's not
(12:31):
right for us at this time, and she said, come on,
Heiser doesn't like dust on the other end. But that's
all were really true. And then she had picked Jim Jacks, wonderful,
wonderful executive, classic old school executive who who at Universal,
who loved movies, loved all kinds of movies, knew exactly
(12:54):
what Tremor's was. He saw exactly it's B movie, monster
movie roots and she knew that Jim would get it
and he would fight for it at universally, which is
exactly what happened. And then she enlisted Gail and Hurt.
She was going to brought Gale and Hurd in because
Gail Anne looked at our buddy Ron's short movies, which
is all he had at the time. He had not
(13:15):
done a feature. When we did Tremors, and the studio
was like, Wow, we're gonna hand off this movie to
a guy who's only directed films for schools and libraries.
And Gail looked at the movies, fun guys, a filmmaker,
don't worry about it, and uh. And then she shepherded us,
especially at the beginning, you know, made sure we weren't
going off the rails some way to get her in trouble.
(13:35):
As she was executive producer. She saw the dailies and said, good,
it is gonna work.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Yeah, you know, I really like Tremors. I'm gonna tell
you why, Steve, because you know, first, it's it just
seems everything happens naturally, you know what I mean. It's
you know, again when you said you were you started
with characters that you know, when you were working with
the idea, it's because you know, all those characters seemed
like the real people who live in that world and
they all see you know, and when they you know,
(14:03):
when some of them finally die. For anyone listening, I'm
not who hasn't seen it yet, I'm not gonna spoil it,
but for anyone, when they finally die, you know, you
actually say, oh my gosh. You know, there isn't a
ton of guys you know, that are just getting mald
These are all the characters right here. So when they
finally die, when not when some of them die, they go,
oh my gosh. You know that actually is impactful in
the story. It's those escalating circumstances, you know what I mean?
(14:26):
And oh, well, you know, you're very welcome, and you know,
and because when when when you see the worm for
the first time, you think that's the monster and then
it becomes bigger, and you're always escalating that further and
further and further, and it's always, you know, they they
find a solution, the problem escalates, They find a solution
of the problem escalates. I mean that that's just it's phenomenal.
(14:47):
And I don't know if you know who Red Letter
Media is, uh, but they actually are a popular online
review group and they actually gave it a you know,
they actually have this one segment where they talk about
movies they like, and they actually few Tremors and they
said it's one of their favorite movies.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
So it's always to hear all of the things you're saying,
we worked very hard on. They were all very important
to us. My partner is not a B movie monster fan.
I saw them all up until the mid seventies or so.
I saw everything, and I knew all the cliches we
were playing with. My partner is just all about character.
(15:24):
And again, and both of us, it was very important that, yes,
the characters matter, that they seemed that the plot, things
that happened seemed to come naturally out of the situation.
And and even even the monsters are consistent in what
they do. You know, they don't change the rules, they
don't suddenly become indestructible or anything like that.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
And one other compliment I want to give you too,
is the way that you constructed this with sound, because
you know what I mean, Like in the beginning, when
Earle and I forget Kevin Bacon's character, Oh yeah, fall yeah,
vu uh Earl and Vowen they're looking for you know, uh,
the the the doctor. They're you know, they're not yelling
his name, they're just sort of walking around and you
(16:09):
could really you know, they're hearing the planks walk, you
hear the bucket kick, and you're you know, and then
you know, valsas we know, where's that music coming from?
You know what I mean, and you know, and and
it just it always escus with that sound. And then
when when you have Chang's joke store, you have that
that that refrigerator that always makes that noise, and then
that causes you know, further conflict. I mean, that's really
really good writing and using that audio for filmmaking.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Oh yes, sound was well. We knew sound was gonna
be critical. We were a low budget movie and we
and that's why we that's part of the reason we
picked Underground Monster as one of the ideas that we
decided to develop. We thought, oh well, in an underground
most of the time, we'll never see them. Heaven knows.
We had endless problems, even even though we in theory
weren't seeing them. But we knew that sound was going
(16:53):
to be critical. We had great sound people, you know,
and it was you know, years ago people have asked me,
you know, what, what is this sound of a grab
boyd badly? I don't know, and I you know, I
have lost track of the people who invented that sound.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Yeah, you know, I because for everyone that's seen the movie,
you know, that's that sound that they make, you know,
and it's you know, it just all ties them very
well together. And everyone I'm gonna link to Tremors in
the show notes to pile off Amazon or Best Buy. Uh,
because it's right, it's totally recommended watching. I remember seeing
Tremors years ago, Steve, and it just blew me away.
But but see, and I didn't know what I was
watching because I know now you know, I've I've studied filmmakers.
(17:32):
I've tell you this. When I go back, now I
can I can sort of go through with a surgeon scalpel,
and I can pick out all this stuff. Oh, this
is why I found this so fascinating, you know what
I mean? And this is why I found it so entertaining.
So and then I and then I get to talk
to the guy who wrote it, and uh, you know
what said made it so uh So now you can
tell me how wrong I am. No, I'm just kidding,
(17:52):
but no, no, it's just uh you know, it's it's
just it's a phenomenal film. And that's why I'm so
glad you know that that the you know, I got
to see the franchise, you know what they mean, like
Tremor's two, Tremors three. Uh you know, I know you guys,
you did four as well, and you also did the
TV series, and it was always great to see you know,
this sort of franchise expand. And you know, you know,
(18:13):
I always talk to you know, my friends and always say,
you know, some franchises, you know, they they sort of
go this way, some go that way, you know, I mean,
Friday thirteenth Night right now, im Street. But Tremor's always
sort of kept it in perfection one way or another
because there was always you know what I mean, there
was always a sort of reason why uh that you know, uh,
(18:34):
you know, like like Tremors three when it's called back
to Perfection, right, and that's where Melvin's creating that whole town, right,
and that leads into the whole TV series. But it's
just stuff like that, you know what I mean, that's
it's all comes organically.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Well. We yeah, it was very important to us to
make the world consistent, and it wasn't easy. You know,
we never expected even to do Tremors too. That came
along years later only because of the success of the HS.
You know, Tremor's one was not a huge hip. I mean,
you know, Kevin Bigan reviewed viewed it as a flop,
and he absolutely disowned it for many, many years and uh,
(19:08):
it wasn't a flop per se, but it but it
did not do nearly what the studio hoped it would do,
and they were disappointed. And so we were floored. And
we got this call from video department and said, hey,
what about tremors too? He said, what about it? They said,
we want it? What? So we all had to sit
down because we were busy doing all kinds of other
stuff at that point in our careers, and said, God,
(19:30):
can we come up with the tremors too? And then
you know, then we said, well, all right, the big
cliche is there's a queen grab boid and we all went, Okay,
no way we're doing a queen grab. We're not going
to do it. And what do we do instead of that?
Then finally I got I'm going to say it was me.
I think it was me. I was driving along in
the desert as I often am, and I said, I
wonder if they just turned into something small, how weird
(19:52):
would that be? And then we ran with that idea.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
We'll be right back after a word from our spawn, sir,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Yeah, And I remember seeing that too, because that's when
they were actually walking on land. I forget the name
that that in the movie, that that the characters give
them shookers, but the shriekers, that's right.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
And then because it's the third that they're called ass Blasters.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
Right, well, that's their third incarnation that gave us that
told us where to go with the third one. We thought, okay,
well they change into a third form. And at the time,
again it was really important just to keep the characters consistent,
the rules consistent, other than but still come up with surprises.
You still can't you can't just do the same thing
over and over. So that's how we came up with
(20:41):
the ass Blasters. Uh and I. In fact, the effects
guys Tom Woodrofinella Gillis of Amalgamated Dynamics were the ones
who came up with ass Blasters because they were just
as invested in we were in protecting their monsters and
making them consistent. And they have a wonderful design approach.
It's a very real world base. The volumes and volumes
(21:02):
of books about animals and creatures and skin textures, and
they literally came in one day say hey, or you
are you aware of the Bombardier beetle and we're like, no,
we're not. They said, that's a beetle that mixes chemicals
in its butt and makes us sound like a firecracker.
We're like, that's a real thing, absolutely, and we we
think that's what asked blasters should do. And we're like,
(21:23):
we are totally on board with that. Uh, there was
something else I was gonna say, oh, oh yes, and
then we got thrown a curve by Universal because they said, Okay,
Tremor's three will definitely be the last one. There will
definitely not be anymore. We understand our market perfectly, and uh,
we know exactly how the DVD world works and this
is it. So we said, okay, we'll wrap it up.
(21:43):
That will be that's cool. We will say that this
is the last form that creatures take. Boom the end,
Goodbye perfection. And almost immediately was well, no, we we
did really much better than we thought. We must have
Tremors for.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Yeah, because I you know, I actually saw Tremors four
and I actually was kind of shocked because I thought,
you know, because I was like, oh wow, I didn't
know they made another one, and you know what, this
is funny. Steve here, you know, as you can kind
of tell him the movie buff. I didn't even know
you did a TV series. I actually didn't know you
did a TV series until last year.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
Well it's easy to do. I mean, there's so much
material now, there's a lot of stuff that I don't know.
I mean, this stuff that's being you know, I'm probably
not even up on half of Netflix's shows and all
this stuff. But anyway, I don't blame you.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
Well you, I mean, because you know, I'm such a
movie head and I'm always like, you know, you looking
for different stuff. And I said they did a Tremor's
TV series before I said, wow, I didn't notice that.
So I actually I actually bought it offline and I
actually went through and I was like, oh, okay, so
it sets up it's you know, it's it's three into
the TV series and then four is a prequel.
Speaker 4 (22:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Uh, you know, I have to ask, you know, when
you make these Tremor movies. Michael Gross seems like the
coolest guy in the world. Is he is he coolest
guy in the world, because I mean he just seems
like he would just be an awesome guy to hang
out with.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
Yes, he's just a wonderful, funny, intellectual, not full of
himself actor. He's very he's great on the set, you know,
at understanding you know who has the scene. You know,
he's not trying to steal other people's lines or anything.
He's he's an actor's actor and uh and he's so
(23:24):
he's become you know, he became Burt. He took over Burt,
you know, from us and uh. And he would always
on Trimmer's two and three and four, even though he
wasn't playing Burt.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
He would. He would always come to this set with
little penciled, delicately penciled lines in the script, and then
he would to sit down with me, and we sit
down with this before we've met, he said, Okay, I
got this idea for a change here and change here,
and then we could go back and forth. And well,
if you say that, then we won't know this. So
oh yeah, yeah, you're right. Never mind ever mind. But
a lot of times, you know, especially with a bird character,
he's he defends the character and he loves it. I
(24:04):
thought at some point I thought he was going to
get tired of it. But I always have to tell
this quick story. You know. He was a huge television star.
When he did Tremors one, he had just finished Years
and Years on Family Ties, playing a guy who could
not be more different from Bert, and they asked us
to read him because he was a big television star
(24:24):
and they thought like that would help the movie. And
we went read the Father on Family Ties and we go, well, okay,
we'll do it because they want us to do it. Well,
he blew us the way you know, he came in
because he's an actor, and he completely just Ron tells
us Worth that he was actually jumping up on his
desk at one point, being showing how far fraid he
(24:45):
was of the monster underground. Anyway, Then some years later,
Michael told me the story of walking down the street
in New York and getting that look that fans get
when they start to recognize you, and the guy was
walking toward him and he he sees the looking knows
the fans going to say it, and then the fan says,
you're that crazy gun guy, and Michael said, yes, I
(25:09):
finally escaped Family Ties.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
I thought you were going to say, oh, yeah, it
was the Downe Family Ties, a crazy gun guy. Yeah,
you know, it's funny because I introduced a friend of
mine to tremors, and he actually goes, wait a minute,
that's the dad from Family Ties and I said, yes,
he's withar the Heaton family, and I'm start Keaton and
Heaton and I said yeah, you know, and he goes, wow.
He goes, this is a different role for him, and
(25:36):
I said yeah, and I said, he fits it like
a glove. Because one of my favorite shots of the
whole movie is where Reba McIntyre and Michael Gross are
in their underground bunker and the wall starts to shake
and they see the grab boy come through and they
start to fire at his rifles, those bold action rifles,
and they're out of AMMO very quickly, and the camera
(25:58):
just pans over to the all of guns and they
literally just are pulling guns off the wall. And I mean,
it's it's so if again, organic characters, and that fits
so well because I would actually be disappointed Steve if
they did not have a wall of guns.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
Yes, he knew that was a key moment in the movie,
and it was great at the premieres, and that the
test screenings, you know, the audience would they would laugh
through the next all the way through the next scene.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
Yeah, Yeah, And you know, it was you know, a phenomenal.
Tremor's is definitely one of my favorite movies. And I think,
you know, when I when I go back to you know,
writing and writing my own stuff, you know, I always
like to dissect movies that I've I've watched, you know,
and I've I like to dissect movies that I've really liked.
And uh, you know, and now because this podcast, I
get to talk to people who've who've written great stuff
that I like. So, you know, it's just it's you know,
(26:48):
it's just great being able to talk to you, Steve,
and you know finding out these little interest in criticities.
I think I just butchered that word, by the way,
But but uh, but you know, and I want to ask,
you know, Steve, you know, you have such a great career.
You know, you did short circuit batteries not included short
circuit too, Tremors, as we all just talked about, I
did ghostat you know, is there any sort of writing
(27:09):
advice you could give to anyone listening who's writing the
screenplay right now?
Speaker 4 (27:14):
Well, if you like our style, and that's step number one,
if you like the movies we've done, then do what
you're doing, first of all, analyze the stuff you like.
That's a lot of you know, pros it will call
ourselves that would say that, because you won't be copying
the stuff that you like, you'll be learning from it.
You know, you obviously understand setups and payoffs. For example,
(27:35):
it's a big thing for me and brit bedding something
up early in the movie having it payoff later in
a surprising way. Those are hard to do. It's hard
to do those correctly and without cheating, and a lot
of times to see movies cheat. I feel a little
at odds with kind of the current movie making steam
(27:55):
giving anybody advice because film after that has no plot
and makes no sense is wildly successful. And I've begun
to wonder, you know, I rail at this and I go, oh,
my day, and blah blah blah uh. And yet you know,
this is for years now I've been seeing this. I've
(28:17):
started to think, well, the audience has really changed. I
think the younger audience maybe does not care as much
about what I think is important in storytelling, and they
truly do enjoy these movies. You know, part of me says, well,
they don't really enjoy them. It's just that's only that's
the only thing they you know, that's the only thing
on this weekend. So they go, I'm less and less
(28:40):
sure of that. But anyway, I would say, analyze the
stuff you like, whatever it is, you know, if it's
ordinary people, analyze that.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
Uh, And and write a lot. By the way, you'll
hear this too from other people. Don't get hung up
on your one script. I did this, you know, early
on we would write a script and go over and
over and over and over, and then we've looked at
one of those earliest scripts. This is like four or
five scripts before a short circuit. You know, go, well,
it wasn't very good, and none of the versions that
(29:11):
we did for it just wasn't very good. You got
to you gotta move on. Write something, get it done,
say goodbye to it, write something else. If you're if
you're a writer, you have plenty of ideas, and the
worst worst cases you find out, well maybe I don't
like it. You know, you do four or five scripts
and you go, I don't like this. That's fine too,
(29:34):
but write a lot. Don't get hung up on one thing,
and you know, and beat it to death, you know,
push yourself to to a degree, look outside your comfort zone.
Although I do think that, you know, if you like
emotional Uh, what's the Julianne Moore picture she just did
where she was a lady with Alzheimer's I can't think of.
(29:56):
I'm I can't remember the name of it. That's a
verytional picture that I would never try to write.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Right, We'll be right back after a word from our
sponsor and now back to the show.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
But maybe you know, other people would, they would take
that's exactly the kind of movie I want to do,
study those and write a lot. I already said what
I'm going to say.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
You know, you know, that's great advice, you know, Steve,
you know, just going through and analyzing the movies that
you like and why you like those and uh like,
For instance, I had Victor Miller on here, and Victor
Miller wrote Friday the Thirteenth Part one, uh, by the way,
which also start Kevin Bacon by the way. Wow, yes, yes,
small world right, so uh you know, and uh we
(30:44):
were talking about you know, how do you you know,
how do you break it down? And Victor said, listen,
he goes, I've been doing this for thirty years now whatever,
he said, I'm still always looking for different ways of
writing and telling a story. He goes so and he
said to me that, you know, he's always looking for
a different method, something to sort of crack the story,
(31:05):
or another way to write. And you know, it's just
it's just very reassuring and unassuring the same time to
hear veterans like you and him, you know, just talk
about screenwriting and always say, you know, they they even
with hits, because tremor, you mean, because again you have
you've had tremors, You've had you know, short Circuit, and
you know even and he's you know, had Friday Thirteenth
(31:25):
Part one, he's had a few Emmy Award winning pieces,
and it's still it's again, it's reassuring, and it's it's
a little worrisome to hear that, you know, there's always
they still don't have it all figured out.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
Oh you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Oh, even if these hits.
Speaker 4 (31:37):
Every script, yes, every script has its own life that
it takes on and its own problems that it throws
at you. And you suddenly find yourself going, why did
I even like this idea? I feel so trapped now,
And you know, sometimes you're beating your head against the wall.
But but you know that's that's the great thing. It
is a creative process. They yeah, they do, they do.
(32:00):
Each one is different. Brett and I are doing one
right now as a matter of fact, that is that
is very different from anything we've ever done. Ron challenged us.
He said, you know what, I would really like to
do another little Budge movie. Don's big in television right now.
He's directed every TV show you've ever heard of, and
he goes from show to show to show, and he said,
you know, it'd be fun to do another low budget
movie like we did Tremblers. Why don't you guys write
(32:21):
a sci fi movie with no special effects? And we
went really wrong and then we thought about it. We
sat down, so we actually have come up with an idea.
We're about, I don't know, halfway through the process now,
our anguishing process. It was really hard. I mean we
just you know, because we just we just had to
throw out idea after idea after an idea until we
came up with this idea. And I don't want to
(32:42):
talk about but anyway, yes, good, good note. Yes, good
writers are always questioning what they're doing and always a
lot of times, I think boundering quietly in their dark corners.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
I And you know, I'm not even a professional writer yet, Steve,
but I you know, I often feel that way, A feel.
I always feel like, what the hell did I start?
Speaker 4 (33:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (33:05):
But uh, you know it's funny. I actually pitched an
idea one time and the producer hated it, right, And
he came back to me later on and he goes,
you know what, you go back. This is late months later,
and he was already working on something else, but he goes,
you know what, I was driving down the Doubt, down
this uh this interstate, and he goes, you know, and
all of a sudden, they couldn't stop thinking about your
(33:27):
script idea. And I started laughing at myself, and he goes,
you know, it's a lot better than I thought it was.
And I said, see, it's always a rose colored glass.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Uh but but you know, uh, Steve, you know, we've
been talking for about thirty minutes now, and I just
want to ask you in closing, is there anything that
you know we we didn't get a chance to discuss
that you wanted to or is there any sort of
thing you want to say sort of put a period
the end of this whole conversation.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
Oh, I'm writing novels now. I'd like to mention that
to plug them among the other things I'm trying to do.
But as far as aloeems, was there anything else advice wise?
I would say nothing springs to mind. I'm much better the.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Questions, Uh, where you will find you out online?
Speaker 4 (34:22):
Oh? Well, the Stampede Entertainment maintains a website, knowing we
always have hopes that we will sell something of our
own and rambub into production stampedethan Entertainment dot com. And
then I'm on Facebook of course, as S. S. Wilson
and and the books are available at Amazon, Tucker's Monster
(34:45):
and phrase.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
Free Cats, and I will link to all that in
the show to everyone.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
You have an impressive list of podcasts. By the way,
there's like one hundred and fifty of them.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
Or something, yeah, like one twenty seven or eight nons.
Speaker 4 (35:03):
Oh okay, I overstated it a little bit, but I
was quite impressed. And then I went to your site
and I listened to a few things, of course before
I agreed to do this, and so I was impressed
with your with your polished approach.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Oh, thank you, I've actually been proud of that because
I had somebody I won't say who, but they came
on and they said, Dave, thank you for not being
that guy. And I said, what do you mean? They said,
you know, they said, like, there's so many people have
podcasts now, and they said, you know, they're sort of
like in their mom's basement and they get people on
the podcast and they could just like sort of like
be malicious, you know what I mean, And it's just like, oh,
(35:37):
so you made a movie, huh what do you And
I'm like, no, I would never be that guy. I
hate people like cause I actually steve you know, real quick.
I was on a podcast with a friend of mine
and he asked me to be on his podcast. So
I went to his house, which, by the way, we
went to his mom's basement.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
To go with this.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
And then he started going like, oh, so you made
a TV pilot and pitched it to MBC, you know,
And I said, yeah, well is that and is that bad?
And he's like, well, I didn't you know, and he said,
this is the podcast by the way, and he's like, oh,
he couldn't reminds me of too much of Clerks. I said, oh,
I said.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
I was like and and and and. Honestly, Steve, I'm
I'm pretty good at thinking on my feet. So what
I did was I started, you know, I was like,
if I started insulting you right now, dude, I said,
believe me, I said, you would cut this all out.
And then finally he started to like ease up a
little bit after we exchange a little words. But uh,
but yeah, I I never would would it would bring
somebody on just to insult them. And I thank god
that I've never had one bad podcast. I've never had
(36:33):
anybody had bad feelings. Everything's always been great.
Speaker 4 (36:36):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
So I'm proud of that.
Speaker 4 (36:37):
Well you should be. That's that's good. That's good to hear.
And I'm for warrened. I haven't had that experience.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
Yet, so I can put you. Yeah, I give you
that warning. I'll be like the harbinger of hair of horror.
Uh you know what I mean, like always warning you
about things that are coming. Uh, kind of like old
friend and tremors. But he was he didn't tell them,
he just he but his dead body showed them if
something right. Uh, Steve, I want to say thank you
very much for coming on the podcast sir, and please
(37:03):
stay in touch with me anything let me my pleasure.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
Thank you, take care about you. Bye bye.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
a great job on this episode. If you want to
get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
head over to the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv.
Forward slash for thirty one. Thank you so much for
listening to guys as always, keep on writing no matter what.
I'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproofscreenwriting
dot tv.
You are listening to the IFAH podcast Network.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to
ifahpodcastnetwork dot com.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number four thirty one.
Your dream doesn't have an expiration date, Take a deep
breath and try again. KT Whitten broadcasting from a dark,
windowless room in Hollywood.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
When we really should be working on that next draft.
It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and
business of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your
screenplay bulletproof.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to another
episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
I am your.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
Humble host Alex Ferrari.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Now, today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof Script Coverage.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Now.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Unlike other script coverage services, Bulletproof Script Coverage actually focuses
on the kind of project you are in the goals
of the project you are, so we actually break it
down by three categories micro budget, indie film, market, and
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(01:12):
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or TV script covered by professional readers, head on over
to covermiscreenplay dot Com. Enjoy today's episode with guest host
(01:37):
Dave Bulliss.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
My guest on today's episode has one of the most
successful horror franchises of all time, whether you've seen the
first Tremors or whether you've seen any of the other Tremors,
or even the TV series or even the new TV
series that's coming out. He doesn't have anything to do
with the new TV series coming out, but still it's
based off of his of his concepts. You know, there's
(01:59):
a lot to be glean this episode because when they
made Tremors one, you know, they had to watch their
budget because so what do they do well? They put
their monster offscreen and underground. Then at the right moment
of the reveal, you know, it's revealing in stages and
stuff like that. It kind of reminds me of Reservoir docs.
You know, I was watching that again, Reservoir adults. You
never see the bank robbery. And I think the main
(02:20):
reason for that is it's not only a really nice
creative choice, but also because it saves money. You know,
when when you're making these first movies, you know, the
creative choices have to rule the day. So again, this
is what this was all about, you know, is making
a monster movie where they can control the rights and
you know, keep everything on the budget.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
So how do you do that?
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Well, we're gonna find out today with guests s S. Wilson. Hey, Steve,
thanks off for coming on the show.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
Sir, You're welcome. You're welcome.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
So, you know, Steve, just to get started, I wanted
to ask what got you into the film industry. Was it,
you know, did you like films as you know, growing
up or is it just sort of one of those
things where one day you found yourself, you know, sort
of writing screenplays or on set somewhere well as a
tense to happen.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Right, My story is a little different. I did love films.
I was a huge film buff as a kid, and
my dad supported that and early on when I was
I don't know, ten or eleven, he bought a eight
millimeter camera and I was one of those kids who
made movies in the backyard and tried to do special
effects with gunpowder and gasoline, which he also supported, interestingly,
(03:29):
you know. And then my dad, then when I went
off to college, actually changed my life. I went off
to college and I don't know what I should do.
I guess I'll be a psychologist like my dad. That's
what he was. And he came up after I'd been
there a week or so, he said, you know, what
are your courses? And I said, that is what I
(03:49):
signed up for. And he said, well, this makes no
sense even making movies in the backyard for ten years.
What's going on? And he went to my advisors and
he said, do you have anything like film or movies
of television? And he changed my whole course schedule. This
is absolutely true. And I had never thought about actually
trying to do it for a living, even though I'd
been making movies for years and years and doing stop
motion animation. And then I, you know, I never looked back.
(04:12):
I went, oh, well yeah, because then you know, then
there were people in the in the departments. You know,
we didn't have much of a film program at Penn
State all those years ago, like one television course and
like two film courses and had to borrow cameras from
the local PBS station whatnot. But uh, yeah, but that's
what happened. And then I, uh, then I got drafted
(04:34):
that I went to USC Film graduate School and uh
and there met a lot of the people that I
still work with. And even though it took almost ten
years from graduating USC to actually break in and make
short Circuit, we were working in the film business making
short films and little short animated things and films for
(04:58):
schools and libraries, TV commercials and whatnot.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
You know, it's funny, Steve, that your your dad was
able to change your whole curriculum because uh, you know,
I actually used to work at a college and grades
and all that stuff were so secretive.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
They actually fired a professor one time because he told
a student's father what he got in the class as
a final grade before the kid with the kid did
and they actually just fired the professor on the spot
because of it. Wow. Yeah, it's just but no, that
just it's funny, though, you know, it's funny how college
has changed so much. But but you know, you went
(05:34):
to Penn State, and you know I've actually, you know,
been up there. I actually attended a Penn State football game.
I didn't go there for college, but you know i've
been there once. Small world, right, because you're out in
LA now.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Right, I'm actually I live in Arizona.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Oh okay, you know, I actually have a few friends
out there.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
To go to LA went as needed.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
I see. So, you know, just to ask this penns
they'd ever asked you to come back to talk about
screenwriting or directing or anything.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
I've been bad. It's funny, ironic timing.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
You know.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
They occasionally send me alumni stuff. I've never let them
even know what I do. I should do that, but no,
they haven't. They haven't tracked me. Now, they have no
idea you know who I am. I was kind of
an invisible student, geeky guy, and I just went through
and left.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Well, I thought me they'd have some kind of alumni
you know, sort of headhunter trying to kept tracking all
this stuff.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
You know, but I've never responded to any of it.
So I really actually have it on my desk as
we speak. I said I should let them know. They
probably would like to.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Know well, then you know, you could just send on
this podcast instead to go back. Just listen to this podcast.
I'm talking to Dave. So you know you brought up
Short Circuit, by the way. I watched that movie religiously
as a kid, by the way, So I want to
ask you know about your whole writing style. I'm actually
always fascinated by people's writing styles and their approach to
(07:04):
their own art. So I wanted to ask you, Steve,
how do you approach writing? You know, do you subscribe
to any sort of methods. Do you do very long
treatments first, or do you just sort of jump right
into writing.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
Brent and I, who have written practically everything together at
least certainly everything has been made, and we've been working
since the days at USC, both in the short films
and then we wrote Short Circuit, which was our big break.
We have a very Our approach is outline, outline, outline.
(07:37):
We don't normally write a treatment for tremors. We did
only because we were trying to sell it and we
couldn't sell it as a pitch for because well we couldn't,
and that didn't The treatment didn't sell either, by the way.
But let me go back so we outline in great detail.
We are not comfortable until we know where the story
is going. And we're very story oriented. Some people can start,
(08:02):
you know, sort of with a character. Don't just say, oh,
there's this character and he's a drug addict and he's
got these problems and I'm just gonna think about what
he does because he's a drug addict. We can't do that.
We got to know where we're going. So and we
can't really get excited about something until we know where
we're going, even if it's a rewrite, which you know,
you get offered quite a bit in Hollywood's pretty much
(08:22):
all Hollywood doesn't anymore, even if it's a rewrite. We
will sit down before we even say yes to a job.
We'll say, okay, we got to go through this movie
figure out what we would change, or maybe they're telling
us what they want change. We got to be sure
that we can make that work, and we got to
know where it's going because your ending is is so
important in a movie in our opinion. In fact, somebody
(08:45):
well known, maybe one of the Zucker brothers, said your
ending is fifty percent of a movie. Somebody said that,
and we kind of believe that, so we gotta know
where we're going, what the surprises are, where the twists
and turns are. So long answer to that question is
we outline like crazy. In fact, we used to drive
studios crazy. And back in the day, early on when
we were getting started, you used to get twelve weeks
(09:09):
was a normal time to write a script, and we
would outline for eight and they'd be calling us him
so you're writing, are you writing well now? Or so
outlining They're like, are you out of your mind? But
then we would write it and you know, four weeks
because it was done.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
So you know, you mentioned tremors when you finally started outlining.
You know, did was there ever a sort of an
impetus for that movie where you said, you know what
this is where we want to take it? So you know,
you know what I mean? So we already know, you
know what the monster is going to be, and we
sort of know where the location is going to be.
It's going to be a perfection. Did was that a
part of it or did that sort of come in
(09:48):
during the outlining phase.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
and now back to the show.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
Well, there again, we outlined it in great detail, worked
on it with Ron Underwood, because the goal with Tremors
was to become producers. We were frustrated that everything we
had written up till then we discovered naive that we
writers that we were, that writers aren't really welcome on
this slin. Once you're done with this script, they don't
(10:20):
want to hear from you again. And we would go
to movies and that we had written and go, boy,
that's that's not what I would have done. And our
agent told us, well, look, you guys want to produce,
then you want control, and to get that, you're going
to have to control the material from the get go.
You can't be rewriting the studio's material. Blah blah blah.
So she said, what do you have in your portfolio
(10:41):
and your piles of notes? And we came up with
We came out of our piles of notes with we
got this underground monster idea. And she said, that's kind
of cool. I've never heard of that before. And so
first we sat down Bronto, we outlined the whole story,
figured out who the characters were, where it was going
to go, and then we pitched it all over town.
(11:03):
Couldn't sell it and then she said, well, let's uh,
maybe she should write a treatment, very detailed, like twenty five
page treatment. Did not sell send it to everybody. So
she said, well, I guess you're going to have to
write it on spec. So in between, you know, the
regular Hollywood movies we were writing, we were writing Tremors
on spec. And uh then took that all over town
(11:26):
and there was it was a huge Our agent was
a huge part of getting this done. She was central.
We call her the mother of Tremors. This is Nancy
Roberts later our partner in Stampede Entertainment. Uh Uh. She
handpicked you know who this script was going to. She
did what an agent really is supposed to do. She
handpicked who the script, and she knew the studio people.
(11:47):
She told us in advance what they were going to say.
You know, there were there were situations where because of
her relationships, there were certain times if she had a
spec script, she couldn't not show it to certain people
because then they would be mad that they were shut
out of the process. So she said, Okay, this is
gonna be weird. I have to send this to Disney.
They are going to stay we we hate this because
(12:11):
it's got so much dust in it. They had dusts
and we're like what, Sure enough, that's exactly what came back.
And all of this was of course off the record,
you know, under the wire. But she got off the phone.
I think I was there at some point. No, No,
she was on the phone to somebody Disney, and they
were passing in a very polite way. Well, it's not
(12:31):
right for us at this time, and she said, come on,
Heiser doesn't like dust on the other end. But that's
all were really true. And then she had picked Jim Jacks, wonderful,
wonderful executive, classic old school executive who who at Universal,
who loved movies, loved all kinds of movies, knew exactly
(12:54):
what Tremor's was. He saw exactly it's B movie, monster
movie roots and she knew that Jim would get it
and he would fight for it at universally, which is
exactly what happened. And then she enlisted Gail and Hurt.
She was going to brought Gale and Hurd in because
Gail Anne looked at our buddy Ron's short movies, which
is all he had at the time. He had not
(13:15):
done a feature. When we did Tremors, and the studio
was like, Wow, we're gonna hand off this movie to
a guy who's only directed films for schools and libraries.
And Gail looked at the movies, fun guys, a filmmaker,
don't worry about it, and uh. And then she shepherded us,
especially at the beginning, you know, made sure we weren't
going off the rails some way to get her in trouble.
(13:35):
As she was executive producer. She saw the dailies and said, good,
it is gonna work.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Yeah, you know, I really like Tremors. I'm gonna tell
you why, Steve, because you know, first, it's it just
seems everything happens naturally, you know what I mean. It's
you know, again when you said you were you started
with characters that you know, when you were working with
the idea, it's because you know, all those characters seemed
like the real people who live in that world and
they all see you know, and when they you know,
(14:03):
when some of them finally die. For anyone listening, I'm
not who hasn't seen it yet, I'm not gonna spoil it,
but for anyone, when they finally die, you know, you
actually say, oh my gosh. You know, there isn't a
ton of guys you know, that are just getting mald
These are all the characters right here. So when they
finally die, when not when some of them die, they go,
oh my gosh. You know that actually is impactful in
the story. It's those escalating circumstances, you know what I mean?
(14:26):
And oh, well, you know, you're very welcome, and you know,
and because when when when you see the worm for
the first time, you think that's the monster and then
it becomes bigger, and you're always escalating that further and
further and further, and it's always, you know, they they
find a solution, the problem escalates, They find a solution
of the problem escalates. I mean that that's just it's phenomenal.
(14:47):
And I don't know if you know who Red Letter
Media is, uh, but they actually are a popular online
review group and they actually gave it a you know,
they actually have this one segment where they talk about
movies they like, and they actually few Tremors and they
said it's one of their favorite movies.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
So it's always to hear all of the things you're saying,
we worked very hard on. They were all very important
to us. My partner is not a B movie monster fan.
I saw them all up until the mid seventies or so.
I saw everything, and I knew all the cliches we
were playing with. My partner is just all about character.
(15:24):
And again, and both of us, it was very important that, yes,
the characters matter, that they seemed that the plot, things
that happened seemed to come naturally out of the situation.
And and even even the monsters are consistent in what
they do. You know, they don't change the rules, they
don't suddenly become indestructible or anything like that.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
And one other compliment I want to give you too,
is the way that you constructed this with sound, because
you know what I mean, Like in the beginning, when
Earle and I forget Kevin Bacon's character, Oh yeah, fall yeah,
vu uh Earl and Vowen they're looking for you know, uh,
the the the doctor. They're you know, they're not yelling
his name, they're just sort of walking around and you
(16:09):
could really you know, they're hearing the planks walk, you
hear the bucket kick, and you're you know, and then
you know, valsas we know, where's that music coming from?
You know what I mean, and you know, and and
it just it always escus with that sound. And then
when when you have Chang's joke store, you have that
that that refrigerator that always makes that noise, and then
that causes you know, further conflict. I mean, that's really
really good writing and using that audio for filmmaking.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Oh yes, sound was well. We knew sound was gonna
be critical. We were a low budget movie and we
and that's why we that's part of the reason we
picked Underground Monster as one of the ideas that we
decided to develop. We thought, oh well, in an underground
most of the time, we'll never see them. Heaven knows.
We had endless problems, even even though we in theory
weren't seeing them. But we knew that sound was going
(16:53):
to be critical. We had great sound people, you know,
and it was you know, years ago people have asked me,
you know, what, what is this sound of a grab
boyd badly? I don't know, and I you know, I
have lost track of the people who invented that sound.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Yeah, you know, I because for everyone that's seen the movie,
you know, that's that sound that they make, you know,
and it's you know, it just all ties them very
well together. And everyone I'm gonna link to Tremors in
the show notes to pile off Amazon or Best Buy. Uh,
because it's right, it's totally recommended watching. I remember seeing
Tremors years ago, Steve, and it just blew me away.
But but see, and I didn't know what I was
watching because I know now you know, I've I've studied filmmakers.
(17:32):
I've tell you this. When I go back, now I
can I can sort of go through with a surgeon scalpel,
and I can pick out all this stuff. Oh, this
is why I found this so fascinating, you know what
I mean? And this is why I found it so entertaining.
So and then I and then I get to talk
to the guy who wrote it, and uh, you know
what said made it so uh So now you can
tell me how wrong I am. No, I'm just kidding,
(17:52):
but no, no, it's just uh you know, it's it's
just it's a phenomenal film. And that's why I'm so
glad you know that that the you know, I got
to see the franchise, you know what they mean, like
Tremor's two, Tremors three. Uh you know, I know you guys,
you did four as well, and you also did the
TV series, and it was always great to see you know,
this sort of franchise expand. And you know, you know,
(18:13):
I always talk to you know, my friends and always say,
you know, some franchises, you know, they they sort of
go this way, some go that way, you know, I mean,
Friday thirteenth Night right now, im Street. But Tremor's always
sort of kept it in perfection one way or another
because there was always you know what I mean, there
was always a sort of reason why uh that you know, uh,
(18:34):
you know, like like Tremors three when it's called back
to Perfection, right, and that's where Melvin's creating that whole town, right,
and that leads into the whole TV series. But it's
just stuff like that, you know what I mean, that's
it's all comes organically.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Well. We yeah, it was very important to us to
make the world consistent, and it wasn't easy. You know,
we never expected even to do Tremors too. That came
along years later only because of the success of the HS.
You know, Tremor's one was not a huge hip. I mean,
you know, Kevin Bigan reviewed viewed it as a flop,
and he absolutely disowned it for many, many years and uh,
(19:08):
it wasn't a flop per se, but it but it
did not do nearly what the studio hoped it would do,
and they were disappointed. And so we were floored. And
we got this call from video department and said, hey,
what about tremors too? He said, what about it? They said,
we want it? What? So we all had to sit
down because we were busy doing all kinds of other
stuff at that point in our careers, and said, God,
(19:30):
can we come up with the tremors too? And then
you know, then we said, well, all right, the big
cliche is there's a queen grab boid and we all went, Okay,
no way we're doing a queen grab. We're not going
to do it. And what do we do instead of that?
Then finally I got I'm going to say it was me.
I think it was me. I was driving along in
the desert as I often am, and I said, I
wonder if they just turned into something small, how weird
(19:52):
would that be? And then we ran with that idea.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
We'll be right back after a word from our spawn, sir,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Yeah, And I remember seeing that too, because that's when
they were actually walking on land. I forget the name
that that in the movie, that that the characters give
them shookers, but the shriekers, that's right.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
And then because it's the third that they're called ass Blasters.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
Right, well, that's their third incarnation that gave us that
told us where to go with the third one. We thought, okay,
well they change into a third form. And at the time,
again it was really important just to keep the characters consistent,
the rules consistent, other than but still come up with surprises.
You still can't you can't just do the same thing
over and over. So that's how we came up with
(20:41):
the ass Blasters. Uh and I. In fact, the effects
guys Tom Woodrofinella Gillis of Amalgamated Dynamics were the ones
who came up with ass Blasters because they were just
as invested in we were in protecting their monsters and
making them consistent. And they have a wonderful design approach.
It's a very real world base. The volumes and volumes
(21:02):
of books about animals and creatures and skin textures, and
they literally came in one day say hey, or you
are you aware of the Bombardier beetle and we're like, no,
we're not. They said, that's a beetle that mixes chemicals
in its butt and makes us sound like a firecracker.
We're like, that's a real thing, absolutely, and we we
think that's what asked blasters should do. And we're like,
(21:23):
we are totally on board with that. Uh, there was
something else I was gonna say, oh, oh yes, and
then we got thrown a curve by Universal because they said, Okay,
Tremor's three will definitely be the last one. There will
definitely not be anymore. We understand our market perfectly, and uh,
we know exactly how the DVD world works and this
is it. So we said, okay, we'll wrap it up.
(21:43):
That will be that's cool. We will say that this
is the last form that creatures take. Boom the end,
Goodbye perfection. And almost immediately was well, no, we we
did really much better than we thought. We must have
Tremors for.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Yeah, because I you know, I actually saw Tremors four
and I actually was kind of shocked because I thought,
you know, because I was like, oh wow, I didn't
know they made another one, and you know what, this
is funny. Steve here, you know, as you can kind
of tell him the movie buff. I didn't even know
you did a TV series. I actually didn't know you
did a TV series until last year.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
Well it's easy to do. I mean, there's so much
material now, there's a lot of stuff that I don't know.
I mean, this stuff that's being you know, I'm probably
not even up on half of Netflix's shows and all
this stuff. But anyway, I don't blame you.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
Well you, I mean, because you know, I'm such a
movie head and I'm always like, you know, you looking
for different stuff. And I said they did a Tremor's
TV series before I said, wow, I didn't notice that.
So I actually I actually bought it offline and I
actually went through and I was like, oh, okay, so
it sets up it's you know, it's it's three into
the TV series and then four is a prequel.
Speaker 4 (22:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Uh, you know, I have to ask, you know, when
you make these Tremor movies. Michael Gross seems like the
coolest guy in the world. Is he is he coolest
guy in the world, because I mean he just seems
like he would just be an awesome guy to hang
out with.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
Yes, he's just a wonderful, funny, intellectual, not full of
himself actor. He's very he's great on the set, you know,
at understanding you know who has the scene. You know,
he's not trying to steal other people's lines or anything.
He's he's an actor's actor and uh and he's so
(23:24):
he's become you know, he became Burt. He took over Burt,
you know, from us and uh. And he would always
on Trimmer's two and three and four, even though he
wasn't playing Burt.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
He would. He would always come to this set with
little penciled, delicately penciled lines in the script, and then
he would to sit down with me, and we sit
down with this before we've met, he said, Okay, I
got this idea for a change here and change here,
and then we could go back and forth. And well,
if you say that, then we won't know this. So
oh yeah, yeah, you're right. Never mind ever mind. But
a lot of times, you know, especially with a bird character,
he's he defends the character and he loves it. I
(24:04):
thought at some point I thought he was going to
get tired of it. But I always have to tell
this quick story. You know. He was a huge television star.
When he did Tremors one, he had just finished Years
and Years on Family Ties, playing a guy who could
not be more different from Bert, and they asked us
to read him because he was a big television star
(24:24):
and they thought like that would help the movie. And
we went read the Father on Family Ties and we go, well, okay,
we'll do it because they want us to do it. Well,
he blew us the way you know, he came in
because he's an actor, and he completely just Ron tells
us Worth that he was actually jumping up on his
desk at one point, being showing how far fraid he
(24:45):
was of the monster underground. Anyway, Then some years later,
Michael told me the story of walking down the street
in New York and getting that look that fans get
when they start to recognize you, and the guy was
walking toward him and he he sees the looking knows
the fans going to say it, and then the fan says,
you're that crazy gun guy, and Michael said, yes, I
(25:09):
finally escaped Family Ties.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
I thought you were going to say, oh, yeah, it
was the Downe Family Ties, a crazy gun guy. Yeah,
you know, it's funny because I introduced a friend of
mine to tremors, and he actually goes, wait a minute,
that's the dad from Family Ties and I said, yes,
he's withar the Heaton family, and I'm start Keaton and
Heaton and I said yeah, you know, and he goes, wow.
He goes, this is a different role for him, and
(25:36):
I said yeah, and I said, he fits it like
a glove. Because one of my favorite shots of the
whole movie is where Reba McIntyre and Michael Gross are
in their underground bunker and the wall starts to shake
and they see the grab boy come through and they
start to fire at his rifles, those bold action rifles,
and they're out of AMMO very quickly, and the camera
(25:58):
just pans over to the all of guns and they
literally just are pulling guns off the wall. And I mean,
it's it's so if again, organic characters, and that fits
so well because I would actually be disappointed Steve if
they did not have a wall of guns.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
Yes, he knew that was a key moment in the movie,
and it was great at the premieres, and that the
test screenings, you know, the audience would they would laugh
through the next all the way through the next scene.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
Yeah, Yeah, And you know, it was you know, a phenomenal.
Tremor's is definitely one of my favorite movies. And I think,
you know, when I when I go back to you know,
writing and writing my own stuff, you know, I always
like to dissect movies that I've I've watched, you know,
and I've I like to dissect movies that I've really liked.
And uh, you know, and now because this podcast, I
get to talk to people who've who've written great stuff
that I like. So, you know, it's just it's you know,
(26:48):
it's just great being able to talk to you, Steve,
and you know finding out these little interest in criticities.
I think I just butchered that word, by the way,
But but uh, but you know, and I want to ask,
you know, Steve, you know, you have such a great career.
You know, you did short circuit batteries not included short
circuit too, Tremors, as we all just talked about, I
did ghostat you know, is there any sort of writing
(27:09):
advice you could give to anyone listening who's writing the
screenplay right now?
Speaker 4 (27:14):
Well, if you like our style, and that's step number one,
if you like the movies we've done, then do what
you're doing, first of all, analyze the stuff you like.
That's a lot of you know, pros it will call
ourselves that would say that, because you won't be copying
the stuff that you like, you'll be learning from it.
You know, you obviously understand setups and payoffs. For example,
(27:35):
it's a big thing for me and brit bedding something
up early in the movie having it payoff later in
a surprising way. Those are hard to do. It's hard
to do those correctly and without cheating, and a lot
of times to see movies cheat. I feel a little
at odds with kind of the current movie making steam
(27:55):
giving anybody advice because film after that has no plot
and makes no sense is wildly successful. And I've begun
to wonder, you know, I rail at this and I go, oh,
my day, and blah blah blah uh. And yet you know,
this is for years now I've been seeing this. I've
(28:17):
started to think, well, the audience has really changed. I
think the younger audience maybe does not care as much
about what I think is important in storytelling, and they
truly do enjoy these movies. You know, part of me says, well,
they don't really enjoy them. It's just that's only that's
the only thing they you know, that's the only thing
on this weekend. So they go, I'm less and less
(28:40):
sure of that. But anyway, I would say, analyze the
stuff you like, whatever it is, you know, if it's
ordinary people, analyze that.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
Uh, And and write a lot. By the way, you'll
hear this too from other people. Don't get hung up
on your one script. I did this, you know, early
on we would write a script and go over and
over and over and over, and then we've looked at
one of those earliest scripts. This is like four or
five scripts before a short circuit. You know, go, well,
it wasn't very good, and none of the versions that
(29:11):
we did for it just wasn't very good. You got
to you gotta move on. Write something, get it done,
say goodbye to it, write something else. If you're if
you're a writer, you have plenty of ideas, and the
worst worst cases you find out, well maybe I don't
like it. You know, you do four or five scripts
and you go, I don't like this. That's fine too,
(29:34):
but write a lot. Don't get hung up on one thing,
and you know, and beat it to death, you know,
push yourself to to a degree, look outside your comfort zone.
Although I do think that, you know, if you like
emotional Uh, what's the Julianne Moore picture she just did
where she was a lady with Alzheimer's I can't think of.
(29:56):
I'm I can't remember the name of it. That's a
verytional picture that I would never try to write.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Right, We'll be right back after a word from our
sponsor and now back to the show.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
But maybe you know, other people would, they would take
that's exactly the kind of movie I want to do,
study those and write a lot. I already said what
I'm going to say.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
You know, you know, that's great advice, you know, Steve,
you know, just going through and analyzing the movies that
you like and why you like those and uh like,
For instance, I had Victor Miller on here, and Victor
Miller wrote Friday the Thirteenth Part one, uh, by the way,
which also start Kevin Bacon by the way. Wow, yes, yes,
small world right, so uh you know, and uh we
(30:44):
were talking about you know, how do you you know,
how do you break it down? And Victor said, listen,
he goes, I've been doing this for thirty years now whatever,
he said, I'm still always looking for different ways of
writing and telling a story. He goes so and he
said to me that, you know, he's always looking for
a different method, something to sort of crack the story,
(31:05):
or another way to write. And you know, it's just
it's just very reassuring and unassuring the same time to
hear veterans like you and him, you know, just talk
about screenwriting and always say, you know, they they even
with hits, because tremor, you mean, because again you have
you've had tremors, You've had you know, short Circuit, and
you know even and he's you know, had Friday Thirteenth
(31:25):
Part one, he's had a few Emmy Award winning pieces,
and it's still it's again, it's reassuring, and it's it's
a little worrisome to hear that, you know, there's always
they still don't have it all figured out.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
Oh you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Oh, even if these hits.
Speaker 4 (31:37):
Every script, yes, every script has its own life that
it takes on and its own problems that it throws
at you. And you suddenly find yourself going, why did
I even like this idea? I feel so trapped now,
And you know, sometimes you're beating your head against the wall.
But but you know that's that's the great thing. It
is a creative process. They yeah, they do, they do.
(32:00):
Each one is different. Brett and I are doing one
right now as a matter of fact, that is that
is very different from anything we've ever done. Ron challenged us.
He said, you know what, I would really like to
do another little Budge movie. Don's big in television right now.
He's directed every TV show you've ever heard of, and
he goes from show to show to show, and he said,
you know, it'd be fun to do another low budget
movie like we did Tremblers. Why don't you guys write
(32:21):
a sci fi movie with no special effects? And we
went really wrong and then we thought about it. We
sat down, so we actually have come up with an idea.
We're about, I don't know, halfway through the process now,
our anguishing process. It was really hard. I mean we
just you know, because we just we just had to
throw out idea after idea after an idea until we
came up with this idea. And I don't want to
(32:42):
talk about but anyway, yes, good, good note. Yes, good
writers are always questioning what they're doing and always a
lot of times, I think boundering quietly in their dark corners.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
I And you know, I'm not even a professional writer yet, Steve,
but I you know, I often feel that way, A feel.
I always feel like, what the hell did I start?
Speaker 4 (33:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (33:05):
But uh, you know it's funny. I actually pitched an
idea one time and the producer hated it, right, And
he came back to me later on and he goes,
you know what, you go back. This is late months later,
and he was already working on something else, but he goes,
you know what, I was driving down the Doubt, down
this uh this interstate, and he goes, you know, and
all of a sudden, they couldn't stop thinking about your
(33:27):
script idea. And I started laughing at myself, and he goes,
you know, it's a lot better than I thought it was.
And I said, see, it's always a rose colored glass.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Uh but but you know, uh, Steve, you know, we've
been talking for about thirty minutes now, and I just
want to ask you in closing, is there anything that
you know we we didn't get a chance to discuss
that you wanted to or is there any sort of
thing you want to say sort of put a period
the end of this whole conversation.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
Oh, I'm writing novels now. I'd like to mention that
to plug them among the other things I'm trying to do.
But as far as aloeems, was there anything else advice wise?
I would say nothing springs to mind. I'm much better the.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Questions, Uh, where you will find you out online?
Speaker 4 (34:22):
Oh? Well, the Stampede Entertainment maintains a website, knowing we
always have hopes that we will sell something of our
own and rambub into production stampedethan Entertainment dot com. And
then I'm on Facebook of course, as S. S. Wilson
and and the books are available at Amazon, Tucker's Monster
(34:45):
and phrase.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
Free Cats, and I will link to all that in
the show to everyone.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
You have an impressive list of podcasts. By the way,
there's like one hundred and fifty of them.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
Or something, yeah, like one twenty seven or eight nons.
Speaker 4 (35:03):
Oh okay, I overstated it a little bit, but I
was quite impressed. And then I went to your site
and I listened to a few things, of course before
I agreed to do this, and so I was impressed
with your with your polished approach.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Oh, thank you, I've actually been proud of that because
I had somebody I won't say who, but they came
on and they said, Dave, thank you for not being
that guy. And I said, what do you mean? They said,
you know, they said, like, there's so many people have
podcasts now, and they said, you know, they're sort of
like in their mom's basement and they get people on
the podcast and they could just like sort of like
be malicious, you know what I mean, And it's just like, oh,
(35:37):
so you made a movie, huh what do you And
I'm like, no, I would never be that guy. I
hate people like cause I actually steve you know, real quick.
I was on a podcast with a friend of mine
and he asked me to be on his podcast. So
I went to his house, which, by the way, we
went to his mom's basement.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
To go with this.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
And then he started going like, oh, so you made
a TV pilot and pitched it to MBC, you know,
And I said, yeah, well is that and is that bad?
And he's like, well, I didn't you know, and he said,
this is the podcast by the way, and he's like, oh,
he couldn't reminds me of too much of Clerks. I said, oh,
I said.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
I was like and and and and. Honestly, Steve, I'm
I'm pretty good at thinking on my feet. So what
I did was I started, you know, I was like,
if I started insulting you right now, dude, I said,
believe me, I said, you would cut this all out.
And then finally he started to like ease up a
little bit after we exchange a little words. But uh,
but yeah, I I never would would it would bring
somebody on just to insult them. And I thank god
that I've never had one bad podcast. I've never had
(36:33):
anybody had bad feelings. Everything's always been great.
Speaker 4 (36:36):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
So I'm proud of that.
Speaker 4 (36:37):
Well you should be. That's that's good. That's good to hear.
And I'm for warrened. I haven't had that experience.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
Yet, so I can put you. Yeah, I give you
that warning. I'll be like the harbinger of hair of horror.
Uh you know what I mean, like always warning you
about things that are coming. Uh, kind of like old
friend and tremors. But he was he didn't tell them,
he just he but his dead body showed them if
something right. Uh, Steve, I want to say thank you
very much for coming on the podcast sir, and please
(37:03):
stay in touch with me anything let me my pleasure.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
Thank you, take care about you. Bye bye.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
a great job on this episode. If you want to
get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
head over to the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv.
Forward slash for thirty one. Thank you so much for
listening to guys as always, keep on writing no matter what.
I'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproofscreenwriting
dot tv.
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