Episode Transcript
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Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number four thirty six.
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When we really should be working on that next draft.
It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and
business of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your
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And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to another
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I am your.
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Humble host Alex Ferrari.
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(01:34):
Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullets.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
My guest has worked with some of the best directors ever,
including David Lynch, Paul Verhoeven, and Milos Foreman. My latest
guest latest movie, Excuse Me is in which he directed,
was actually shot in nineteen eighty four and it's finally
being released now. Think about that he started filming this
when I was born. It just shows you have to
be in the long haul, really does, and that movie
(02:01):
Dark Seductions will be out October eleventh on v O
D and m OD with guests Greg Travis, Hey, Gregor,
thanks off coming on the show.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Buddy, My pleasure, Dave, my pleasure. Anytime I can talk
to a fellow filmmaker, I'm down, Well.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
You know I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Greg.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
You know I looked at your IMDb. Watch that I
knew of you before I looked at your IMDb because
I recognize you from a couple of different roles, and
you know, before I start talking about that, and when
we get in all your you know, your your very
lengthy IMDb with some very impressive credits. My I just
want to start off by asking about your background, and
that is I just want to ask how did you
(02:41):
get started in the film industry? You know, did you
always want to act as when you were a kid?
You know, so it's pretty much I just want to know,
is you know how did you get started?
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Well, I was in high school. I got a Super
eight camera, started using my dad's home movie camera, and
then I got one of the cameras, and so I
started making these little short Super eight films my junior
year and then my high school year, I actually made
a feature length Super eight movie called Joe Dynamite, and
I showed it at the high school theater and I
(03:14):
was able to get the theater for free, and you know,
work things out to where I actually made my money
back and actually made a little profit on the whole venture.
And I thought, Wow, this is easy, I can do
this little did I know what I was in for.
You know, then I came out to Hollywood and went
(03:35):
to film school. And while I was going to film school,
I started auditioning at the comedy club and then kind
of got a stand up career going and got a
few TV shows and started working the clubs. And I
did that for about twenty years, and then I moved
into the acting direction in the mid nineties and got
a few big movies and then I kind of helped
(03:55):
launch my acting career and did about forty five films
in the fifteen years or so. And now I'm on
my third act and trying to get back to what
I originally wanted to do here, which was be a
director and a filmmaker. And you know, I mean I've
written all these years, and I've made a lot of
shorts all these years, but in the last eight or
(04:20):
nine years, I've really tried to focus in and you know,
make some movies. So I've got three features, Night Creep, Midlife,
and now Dark Seduction that are finished features and that
are getting out there. And Dark Seduction is being released
October eleventh on VOD North America, VOD and pay per view,
And so I'm super excited about that because it took
(04:42):
me about thirty years to complete that movie, which I'm
not bragging about. It's kind of embarrassing, to be honest
with you, because it should have been finished, you know,
at least twenty years ago. But I ran up into
I ran into a lot of obstacles and a lot
(05:04):
of problems with this particular film that you know, stopped
me from finishing it. Every time I would go back
to try to finish it, something horrific would happen and
just stop me in my tracks, or or sometimes I'd
run out of money and I'd have to you know, regroup,
you know. So it seemed to be an ongoing pattern
(05:24):
in the process of the whole post production thing. But
you know, it's one of those things you just, you know,
you try what you can, and then when I got
back to it the final time, I was able to
get everything back and finally finish it up. So I'm
really happy about that.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
Yeah, you know, Greg, I understand completely where you're coming
from about projects, you know, stalling out and having issues.
You know, I've been there before, you know, whether you
know it's you know, different you know, personalities, you know,
not agreeing on set or different producers, you know, not agreeing,
you know, or or even you know sometimes I mean,
(06:04):
for instance, Greg I had at one time, I had
an editor who every time I asked to see a
kind of the movie, he would say, oh, yeah, you know,
it's don't going well listen to that, And I say, well,
I'm gonna go. I want to come up and see
a cut of it, and he would always have an
excuse to Finally he you know, he have to admit.
He's like, listen, I have been working on it at all.
I'm and he's like, you know, I'm sorry. He goes, yeah,
So I understand completely what you mean. But you know,
(06:28):
I do want to talk more about Dark Seduction, but
you know I would be you know, I again, you
have such an extensive IMDb resume. I just want to
sort of take a step back and you talk about
some of your credits. I mean, you have worked with
some of the best directors you know, not only going today,
but some of the directors that have you know, ever
(06:49):
ever lived. I mean, you've worked with David Lynch, Paul Vhoven,
You've worked with bobcat Goldthwaite, You've worked.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Who did five Easy Pieces, a lot of Jack Nicholson films. Yeah,
that was a drill to work with him and a
Milosh foreman who did the Andy Kaufman movie A Man
on the Moon. And Yeah, I was lucky in the
fact that of being a filmmaker and an actor, I
had studied films all of my life and was a
huge movie goer when I was a kid. So I
(07:19):
had seen just about everything any all these guys had done,
especially when it came out on video. I rented everything,
and my friend in New York had a video store,
so I could watch anything that was available. And so,
you know, I've always studied film and always loved it.
And so when I would meet these directors and go
(07:40):
in for the final audition, I would start talking to
them about their obscure movie, the one movie that no
one knew about. That's the one I would talk to
them about. They love that, you know, they absolutely love
that because like they don't get a chance to discuss it.
So it was like, you know, kind of the inside
scoop on some of their obscure films. I would like
(08:01):
talk to them about, you know. But David was great.
I didn't really have too much to say. He was
in the middle of shooting and the cast charactor brought
me over to him, and you know, he just said, great,
you're right, this is great, you look great, and it'll
be perfect. And so that was about it. So, you know,
I got lucky on that one. And he was a
whole lot of fun to work with. He's really detailed oriented.
(08:23):
He put the blood on my face himself, and he,
you know, he was like really had ideas about every
little movement and every little thing, and it was all
very well planned out and very well thought out. You know,
he knew what he wanted and all right, you know,
you never know exactly what you want. I mean, you
(08:43):
got an idea concept of the scene and how it
should go, and you try to explain it to the
actors and then you just hope for the best and
that's basically what every director does, and then you tweak
it as you go along. He said, well, maybe you don't,
you know, you don't scream that much here. Maybe you
bring it down a little bit there. Maybe you don't
hit him with the gun there. You know that kind
(09:05):
of thing, you know. So, but yeah, i'd always been
as a matter of fact, the eraser head was kind
of the first midnight movie that I saw when I
came out here, and it just dis disturbed me to
no when I just didn't quite understand it, but I
felt I mean it felt it. I felt there was
(09:27):
something really going on here, but I didn't quite you know,
I didn't understand what was happening, but it moved me.
Help put it that way. You know.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
It's funny because I took somebody to see Lost Highway
and he had never seen it before, and when he
left the theater, he goes, you know, Davey goes that movie.
I'm not sure what was happening, but he goes, I'm
very interested, and he said, you know, a couple of
days later on he texted me and he goes, you know,
I'm still thinking about Lost Highway.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Yeah, yeah, we'll.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Be right back after a word from our sponsor. And
now back to the show.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Yeah, I had some really fun stuff and it did
some really creepy stuff too. You know, I always thought
of it as a revenge dream, you know, by the
Bill Pullman character, and you know that sort of I
think what it was. You know, he becomes this young
(10:33):
guy in his dream and gets revenge on the older
guys who messed him up with his girlfriend, you know,
or his wife. So at least that's kind of the
way I take it. And then he did that same
sort of thing in his next movie. It was going
to be the TV show that got so many awards?
What the hell's the name of it? Drive. Yeah, he
(10:55):
did the same kind of thing, only with women. It
was the same sort of like switching characters than you know,
becoming another person kind of a thing. You know, Yeah,
I know exactly what I mean.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
It's funny because you now he you know, when we
saw him when when he he you know, he was
actually there and he introduced twin or sorry, he introduced
the Lost Highway and he said and people were asking,
are you're working on anything else? And he said no.
That about a couple of days later, he announces that
he's back with Twin Peaks season three on Showtime.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
It was just uh, I was like, wow, if he
had only you know, but uh, but it was just amazing.
You know, I've just a funny little story real quick.
I actually tried to get him on for one hundredth
episode of this podcast, and I actually missed him by
a couple of I guess maybe a couple of days.
His his manager actually said that he's off shooting Season
three at Twin Peaks, and he's like, you know, it's
(11:46):
all he's doing right now, so uh maybe when it
comes back. But I was like, you know, I mean
that guy, I mean, he's just you know, phenomenal. I mean,
but you know, so I wanted one to ask Greg,
is you know, when you're working with somebody you know
like Lynch, or you're working with somebody like Paul vay whole,
you know, what are some of the biggest takeaways that
you think you've had? Do you think there's something that
there's there's like one constant that you know, sort of
(12:10):
maybe strength that all these directors share that makes them
you know, who they are.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
Well, they all have a kind of definite look that
they're trying to achieve with the film itself, the way
they shoot it, the way they you know, are going
to cut it. The hardest thing I think for any
director is to get a mood, a certain type of
tone that can carry through throughout the film. I think
(12:37):
David Lent that's one of his strengths. He really knows
how to set a tone, a dark ominous kind of
creepy tone to the thing and keep that, you know.
I mean it's not constantly throughout the film, but it's
still there. And well, he's really great at that, and
every other director has their strength, like Verhoven is a
(12:59):
kind of a very strong, just in your face imagery
that just really sticks with you and really hits you
in the chest, you know, very entertaining, very fun, and
just keep coming at you, you know. And I love
that kind of stuff. I love, you know, strong imagery
and strong choices. And you know, as an actor, when
(13:22):
you work with these kind of guys, you just have
to kind of like go with your confidence and come
in with the strongest ideas that you can think of
and just you know, know that that's right, and not
worry about exactly what you think they want, but within
the script and what you think it needs, that's what
(13:43):
you give them. And they'll let you know if it's
not what they want or if they want to tweak it.
But most of the time they really liked what I
did and they were very happy with it. So I
was really lucky to be able to work with those guys,
you know.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
Yeah, you know, Greg, I was actually one gonna be.
My next question was, you know, as an actor, you know,
you know what what is sort of like you know
what you're you're bringing. You know, obviously you're bringing, you know,
your own unique skills and talents to the role. And
you know they you know, they're they're directing you obviously
in this in this particular role. And so one of
my question was, is what are some of the biggest
(14:20):
takeaways that they that they when you're working with them,
that that you have used in your own projects, you know,
sort of like something that you've learned from you know,
Zack Snyder or Verhoven, you know that you're in rob Zombie,
you know, something that you've taken and sort of put
into your own films.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
They all do different things, like Zack Snyder does various
speed takes where he'll do a shot, you know, twenty times,
and he'll do it a little bit differently each time.
And I think that's kind of interesting. I haven't been
able to use that exactly, but I like the idea
(14:59):
of doing a little different each time instead of trying
to do it the same wage time. He does it
a little differently each time. And I think I've heard
that Ridley Scott does that same kind of thing. He'll
move the camera an inch or two over with each
progressive take so that he gets a little bit different
angle and a little bit different look, you know, And
(15:22):
I thought that's pretty pretty cool. You know. The film.
The last film that I, you know, shot and put
out there was Midlife, which was a very Cassavetti's type
of a look. I shot at long lens and then
the wide shots were like a forty millimeter or so,
it was kind of a wide and that's what I
(15:43):
was going for, was a very kight, kind of very
realistic Cassavetti's type of look. And so that's kind of
what I was trying to capture. And so I would
go back and study all of his films and see
what he was doing exactly, and they're all a little different.
They're all shot a little different. There is no one
Casavetti's look, but he does do long lens close ups
(16:06):
and pretty tight close ups when he does them, and
so I use that technique, and you know, you just learn,
you just pick up different directorial techniques from working with
all these different directors and then also what you know,
working as a director for many many reading short films
and theater and all kinds of different things in my
(16:28):
own shows and stand up, because in stand up, you're
really directing yourself, you know, I mean you're really sort
of like jumping out of your skin and saying, well,
what this look like and what would that look like?
And you kind of have to have the second nature
about what would make an audience laugh or what would
make an audience cry, And you develop those skills as
you go along. And I think that I've been able
(16:50):
to do that and now I'm ready to really apply
a that knowledge to making movies. You know, Yeah, you
know that's a good point.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
And you know that's actually what I wanted to sort
of segue into right now was, uh, you know, just
looking at your IMDb page, you know you've you've written
U five pieces and you know you've directed four, and
I just want to ask, you know, your first you
know IMDb credit you know, uh that you have is
night Creep, and I want to ask you know, you
made this in two thousand and three. It was also
(17:22):
written by you, So I wanted to ask Greg. You know,
you said in the intro that you know you want
to sort of want to go back to this because
this is why you you got into this, was you
wanted to make your own films, right.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
So was it?
Speaker 4 (17:34):
Was it the right sort of time and place, so
to speak, to make Night Creep?
Speaker 3 (17:39):
What I mean by it.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
That is, did you you sort of have the like
a sort of like a small window or maybe an
opportunity at that point into.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
You I had hooked up with this, you know, this
guy who's gonna invest in it and who's gonna, you know,
put the money, And so I wrote it pretty I
wrote a script. It was what I thought was pretty commercial,
and actually it wasn't very commercial at all. But I
(18:06):
was kind of a psychological horror film in a very
kind of Lynchian David Lynchian kind of way, to where
we don't really know what's going on half the movie
and we're waiting to find out. But at least in
my movie, I do let the cat out of the
bag at the end of the film, and I do
explain somewhat what was happening, even though there's a few
(18:27):
things left of the air, I suppose to David lynch
who doesn't ever explain anything, and you're just like left
walking out of the theater and what the fuck was
that all about. But you know, you have to study
his films and then you know, kind of come to
some conclusions on your own. But that's what makes them fun,
you know. But yeah, I just had I had a
(18:49):
winner of opportunity, and then of course that investor pulled
out at the last minute, and then I had to
scory around with some of my own money, and so
a few other people that I knew put a little
money into it, and then we were able to kind
of pull it together and do it. But you know,
I had made Dark Seduction back in our mid eighties,
and I actually felt really really confident at that time
(19:12):
because I'd been doing a lot of shorts leading up
to that, and I had a very specific look, and
the partner that I was working with shot at and
he understood what we were going for, and so the look
of Dark Seduction I was pretty much satisfied with. I mean,
there's a lot you could go back and say, well,
I could have done this, I could have done that,
but I, for the most part, I got what I
(19:32):
was trying to get, you know, and there's always things
you could have done better. And some of the shots
we did were out of focus, and didn't come out,
which was a shame, but you just, you know, you
work with what you got. And so then all of
that time I would go, you know, you be thinking
that I was going to come back and finish Dark Seduction,
and then after that that would lead to another film.
(19:54):
So we'll be.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Right back after a word from our sponsor. And now
back to the show.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
When I made Night Creep, I had just gotten to
the place where I just had to do something else
and it couldn't depend on, you know, finishing Dark Seduction
for that one. I just had to you know, start
from scratch and do something new. And so it has
some of the similar themes running through it. There's some lesbianism,
and there's some you know, kind of like creepiness that's
(20:28):
similar to Dark Seduction in a way, but it's not
about vampires or anything. It's about a creepy landlord that
comes into this girl's room at night while she's sleeping,
and we don't know if it's a dream or if
it's reality or exactly what's going on because she takes
a drug and so we think the Night Creep drug
(20:50):
might be causing her to have these hallucinations, and so
that's part of the plot. But it came out pretty good.
It's a lot of fun, you know. But Dark Seduction
is the one that really everybody seems to be responding to.
The premiere was a huge success, and the audience loved it,
(21:10):
and everybody's really really excited about it, and you know,
they really really like it. So it's kind of a
weird hybrid of a nineteen forties detective film and an
eighties lesbian vampire film. And we're not sure if the
vampires are really vampires or if they're just badass chicks
(21:35):
that think they're vampires and go around doing these things.
And so there's that mystery and there's that angle of it,
and you know, it's just a really odd, kind of weird,
little cool cult movie that you know, took me forever
to finish, but I'm glad I did because the technology
(21:57):
has gotten so much better now. It made it so
much now. It's much slicker, and the sound and the
music and everything about it is much better now having
finished it this past year, than it would have been
if I would have finished it twenty years ago or
thirty years ago. You know.
Speaker 4 (22:14):
Yeah, you know that Greg that was actually was going
to ask you also, was you know, since you started
making that in the eighties, you know, like you said,
you started that in the eighties. You know, the camera
technology has you know, just you know, gone through so
many evolutions. You know, you know now you can you
can go out now, and you know our phone is
a camera. And now also you know, you know there's
cameras out that cost as much as the house, you know,
(22:36):
and you know it's amazing this this amount of technology.
So I wanted to ask, you know, did did you
you know, use any of the of the new cameras
sections to sort of put to maybe shoot some new
scenes or no, any.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
No, I shot everything. Everything we shot I did in
eighty four and eighty five on sixteen milimeter black and white.
And when I did a two K transfer from the negative,
it really really I mean it's a little grainy. I
mean it's you know, it's grainy in certain areas, but
it really looks fantastic. The two K transfer just brought
(23:10):
out all the imagery and brought out all the little details.
And I couldn't have asked for a better quality, you know,
print of it. It's much better than if I'd have
made a film print because we have more control with
the digital transfer, you know, and it is sharper than
a film print. I mean, it is a little bit sharper.
(23:32):
So I got everything, you know, And unfortunately the negative
have been setting around for a long time. So even
though they cleaned it a couple of times and we
had it sonically cleaned, there's still a little dust here
and there that was embedded in the negative. So, you know,
it gives it kind of an old you know, tcum,
you know, a little bit of an old quality that
(23:55):
you know, kind of makes it even cooler, you know.
I mean, nobody complain about the little specks that are
on a few of the scenes or you know that
pop up from time to time, but it kind of
gives it an old feel to it, which is kind
of neat too, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
You know, Greg, when I think I either I saw
still or I believe watched the trailer. Also, it kind
of reminds me of Dark City in a way, because
you said it was like a nineteen forties, you know, detective,
it's with the ninth eighties.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
It reminds me.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
I don't know if you've ever seen the film Dark City,
but in a way it reminds me a little bit
of that film.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Was that a color? Veilm though? Was Dark City a
color like the Canadian film? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (24:33):
It was. I think Valkumer or No probably was about
but I'm I forget actually who was in it?
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Remember Peis And it was a lot of strip joint scenes.
He was like a bouncer and a strip joint or something.
Was that the one he's talking about? Dark City?
Speaker 4 (24:49):
Yeah, it was by It was directed by Alex Provs.
I think it's Browns a h and it was.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
There might be one I'm confusing it with. But yeah,
it's definitely a dark and war, you know, and that's
kind of what I'm going for with this. You know
that that forties war that like had the tough, you know,
square jaw detective that was drinking and smoking all the
(25:17):
way through the film, kind of a Boguart type character,
but a little bit more, a little bit more tougher
and bigger and you know, able to take a little
bit more punishment than even Bogart. So I found this actor,
comedian named Tyler Horn who was perfect for the role,
and so I just didn't even have a casting session.
I just asked him if he wanted to do it
(25:38):
because I knew he'd be great in it, and he
really is funny. He's he's quite a perfect kind of
dick tracy looking character. So it worked out really well.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
So Greg, you know, coming from an acting background, do
you do you feel that you know, that was sort
of like sort of your unfair advantage because that was
your biggest strength because you you know, you've worked all
these directors. You also yourself are an actor, so you're
able to sort of, you know, talk to these actors.
Maybe you want to stand them in a different way
that maybe most directors don't, you know.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
If you know what I mean, Well, it's you know,
part of it is the casting of the actor. And
then you know, sometimes you get into a situation where
you know you've got really good improv actors and you
would be an idiot not to let them improvise. And
some directors are not, you know, savvy to that. They
(26:32):
they want to stick to the script verbatim, and they
don't know when to expand their idea and to take
advantage of a talented improvise, of a talented actor who
can improvise, and even if you don't use it in
the film, sometimes you just go you just let it happen,
and you like play with the ideas. And I think
(26:54):
improvisation is a really good technique because you've got the
idea in the script, you know where you're going with it.
You know, let them play with the lines a little bit.
As long as the information you need to drive the
plot is in there, then you can, like, you know,
you can go off script a little bit and play
with the ideas and you never know, you might just
use one of those lines in the editing, or you
(27:15):
might use a couple of little of those bits, And
a lot of times it's better than what you had
in mind in the script because you can't always imagine
it until you get there. And then when you get
there and you see what you've got to work with,
go ahead and work with it. Go ahead and expand
the idea, you know, and explore it a little bit.
I mean, I think that's the key to really good
(27:36):
filmmaking is to explore the ideas once you get there.
You know, Yeah, I can incurk Greg.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
You know, the more I study and the more I
you know, I apply these things, the more I find,
especially in my writing, you know, the more you expand
and explore and stay curious about these ideas.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
You know, the more they're able to flow. Yeah, and
it's it's you know, it's tricky because I did a
lot of improv in Midlife, and the first cut of
it was like two and a half hours long, and
I thought, you know, that was a pretty good cut,
but I was wrong. I ended up taking like forty
minutes out of it and kept whittling it down until
(28:17):
I got it where it was at its basic essence,
and it was just what I needed, but not too much.
It was just enough to tell the story. And that's
what you try to go for, is just the essence
of what you need to tell the story. You know,
people like you know, there's a lot of directors who
get a little indulgent, and I think the big trick
(28:40):
is not to let the line of tension go. You know,
that's the most important thing in a film. If you
look at for all the classics and all the orson
Wells films, he was very adamant about keeping the line
of tension in there, you know, which is driving the story,
and also keeping the audience interested as to what's going
to happen at the end of this story, what's going
(29:00):
to happen to these characters? You know. But when you
lose that and you veer off and you go into
different places for a long period of time that don't
have anything to do with the story, it can really
derail the train, you know, it can really throw you
off and can throw your audience off. So you really
have to keep that in mind. The line of tension,
(29:22):
I think is the most important thing. Whether it's a
comedy or drama or whatever kind of movie you're making,
you really want to keep the audience interested in what's
gonna happen at the end, you know.
Speaker 4 (29:36):
Yeah, I was listening to an art interview by Lawrence Block,
who did a walk Aupong the Tombstones. He wrote that,
and he was, you know, saying the same thing about,
you know, having that tension in there, because you don't
want audiences going in going well, hey, I know this
guy is not going to die.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
Because you know, you know so of because of you know, X,
Y and Z, and I know this thing's gonna happen,
you know what I mean. And I think that's where
you know, I think a lot of people sort of
you know, because people who usually you know, go to movies,
you know, they've seen other movies before in the same genre,
you know what I mean, they've seen you know, action movies.
That's why when a Diehard comes around, it just blows
people out of the water because they're going, holy crap,
(30:22):
you know this is this guy's this John McClain. He's bleeding,
he doesn't know what's going on. He's injured, he he
doesn't you know, he's not just walking in the room
with a machine gun clearing up the whole room, right,
you know. They really he really had to you know,
dissect what was going on and do this sort of
very very you know, cerebrally that's human words, rebelly, but
(30:43):
you know he had to go in there and you know,
sort of deduce, you know, and sort of use assurgent
scalpel and then you know, that's why I think, you know,
die Hard is such.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
A you know, a unique movie that's own right, Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I Mean when it came out, it was just, uh,
he was out numbered and the situation and the conflict
of the situation was question knew, you know, we didn't
see anything like that, you know, in a building where
you're stuck in the crawl spaces and you've got to
(31:11):
maneuver your way and try to find a way to
get rid of these guys. And yeah, it was a
great little scripted piece, you know, and it was very
well executed on the direction too, because the other cops
didn't know what was going on and they weren't taking
it seriously, and you know, these guys were We knew
as an audience, remember, these guys are super bad and
you better take them seriously or you're gonna get you're
(31:33):
in for a big surprise. And so we knew that
as an audience, but you know, within the film they
didn't know that, and so that was kind of an
interesting angle on it as well. And there's also those
kinds of things. As an audience, you tell the audience
certain things, but the characters don't know. Like in Dark Seduction,
we know as an audience how he got bit, but
(31:55):
he doesn't figure it out until well into the film,
you know, because he just came, I remember, and it's
not clear to him and he's not sure what's going on.
But it's the comedy, I mean, it's it's more of
a comedy parody of a nineteen forties detective film that
it is anything else, but I tried to make its
own unique movie by combining it with an eighties vampire field.
(32:18):
So it's like a time shift that that makes any sense,
There's like two different time periods going on at the
same time. So it's kind of weird that way. You know.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
Well, you know great, you know, as you talked about
dark dark seduction. You know, I want to ask you
know your writing style, you know, and you're writing process,
you know, so when you're going to sit down and
you know, whether you use a notebook or whether you
you know, write this on a computer, I want to
ask you know, what what is your process? I mean,
do you sort of already you know, have you I'm
sure you already have an idea in mind, But do
(32:49):
you outline it heavily or do you just you know,
sort of let it flow nationally. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
When I'm writing a feature, I do a three act
outline and I try to outline each scene with a number,
and I go through the whole thing and try to
get an outline because when when you're scripting it, if
you can at least put a few lines of dialogue
in that paragraph that you've outlined that scene with. It
gives you a jumping off place and you know where
(33:15):
you're going next. And then, of course you change things
as you go along, and not all outlines, not all
scenes in the outline are going to make it into
the script, and then you come up with new stuff
as you go along too, but at least it gives
you sort of a place to start with. And I
just sort a little short film and I just kind
(33:36):
of you know, did it in a week and just
kind of chipped away at it like a page page
and a half a day until I got it all done,
like you know, thirteen fourteen pages, and then I sent
it to some few people, got some feedback, did another
draft of it, and now I think it's in pretty
good shape. And so I think, you know, you think
(33:56):
about these things for a while. You kind of like
get a beginning, a middle, and an end and think about,
you know, okay, you need the thene you need that theme.
And I didn't outline that particular short film. I just
actually just scripted it from just what I had in mind.
So it's a little different with each project. But I
think on a full feature. It's really good to do
(34:19):
a detailed outline of the whole thing first. And I
learned that from working with I used to write with
Rick Overton. We were writing partners back in the eighties.
We wrote some scripts for studios and a bunch of
screenplays for Independence and whatnot. And I learned that technique
from James Keach and Brian Grazer were the producers who
(34:40):
were working with in the early days, and so that
that's one of the things they like to do. And
I think it works pretty well, you.
Speaker 4 (34:49):
Know, yeah, it's worked pretty well for especially Brian Grazer.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Right well, it just gives you an overview of the movie.
It's like, oh, okay, now I can kind of see
what kind of movie where you know, we're trying to
do here. Before you write the script, you kind of
have an idea of how it's all going to go down.
And a lot of writers say they just jump right
into it and they just write right right and they
don't even worry about the three act structure, but their
(35:16):
scripts definitely fall short and kind of fall flat because
of that. I've read a ton of scripts, and you know,
if you don't have that three act structure, in there.
It really can be quite problematic, you know, not that
everything has to have that or that it should have that.
I mean with Midlife, the three act structure was sort
(35:38):
of hidden and it was not exactly the way it
should be, but it was still there. You know, it
was still there, And I think that's a good thing
to have consciously when you approach an idea, because if
it's not there, you're really on shaky ground. You're on
(35:58):
shaky territory. And by that tree act structure, I mean
like certain things have to happen to your lead character,
you know, certain beats and certain things obstacles and the
conflict testing creates and you know all those types of
things that are script structure.
Speaker 4 (36:16):
You know, yeah, yeah, And you know that's something I've
talked to before, especially with Alan Watt from Eli Raider's Lab.
You know, we talked about, you know, what the three
act structure is supposed to be, and you know, even
even the different system that you've seen like Save the Cat,
you know, really what they're trying to do is you know,
not only is it trying to guide a transformation, but
it's also you know, trying to just make sure that
you're always amping it up so that way, you know,
(36:37):
you don't sort of you know, on page fifteen, you know,
you have some kind of climax, and the rest of
the movie you just sort of, you know, just meandering.
It's sort of, you know, just trying to give you
like a blueprint of where to go right.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
And he's an expert at that, much more than I am.
But the upping the andy on the conflict is an
important element to keep in there so that the stakes
get higher as you go along, you know, so absolutely,
And that can apply to any kind of story, you know,
whether you're doing something about a little kid or you know,
(37:07):
whatever it is, the stakes keep getting higher and the
conflict keeps getting more and more intense, you know. So
that's what keeps the line of tension in place and
keeps the audience wondering what's gonna happen next? Oh my god,
you know, you can't get any worse, you know, especially
in horror movies, that's a very prevalent technique to use.
(37:31):
You know, when the girls trapped in a castle and
she just keep one bad thing happens after another, and
you know what, you know what the next bad thing
that's going to happen. You know, it's like a horrific
thing that's going to happen. It just keeps getting worse
and worse. But yeah, yeah, so you know, knowing all
(37:52):
of this, you know, and learning all of these things
throughout the years is both the writer, actor and the
filmmaker is just gives you more ammunition, gives you more
confidence going into a project. And you know, films are
tricky propositions. You know, they're just not a guarantee that
they're going to work, even if you have a good script,
(38:14):
even if you you know, have just thought about it
and you've got it all worked out and you shoot
it perfectly. I mean when people went to see The Shining,
they were walking out on it. They didn't like it.
You know, it wasn't like the book. Everybody was expecting,
you know, Stanley to do the book and he didn't,
(38:35):
and it just kind of you know, it didn't really
shock you or scare you that much. It had a
few scares in it, but not really that scary. But
it took years for that film to sort of find
its audience and find its place in the horror world,
and now it's considered to be one of the best
horror movies ever made. But believe me, when it came
(38:58):
out in nineteen eighty, nobody knew what to it. They
were just like, oh, that was weird, you know, they
didn't know how great it was. In other words, is
what I'm trying to say. And a lot of his
movies are like that. They they tick time to kind
of find their audience and to kind of become, you know,
as great as they really are. But I don't know
(39:19):
how he was able to do that, but somehow he
did what he was Films are weird. I mean, you
don't always get it the first viewing, you know, and
then there's all different ways. If you view something by
yourself on television, it doesn't always hit you. But when
you see it with an audience in a theater, oh
my god, it becomes a whole different thing. You know.
Speaker 4 (39:39):
Yeah, I know exactly what you mean with that, because
you know, I've had that that happened to me with
the certain movies. You know, it's sort of like the
shared the shared experience in the theater. And then you know,
you try to watch it at home atter wrong. You're
like it didn't hit the same way, or even vice versa.
You know, it's just very it's very interesting. And even
David Lynch had said something about this, he said, you know,
(39:59):
don't watch movies on your phone.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
Yeah, we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 4 (40:12):
I don't know why people are trying to watch movies
on their phone.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
Yeah, I mean, it's a certain mood, it's a certain
excitement that goes along with seeing it on the big screen.
You can see everything that the movie has to offer
on the big screen, and it's the shared experience that
makes it much more elevated and much more of an
experience altogether. And yeah, I was real tickled being able
(40:37):
to show some of my films to a full pack
theater and see the true reactions. And it's amazing. You know,
some of the things that I've seen a thousand times
and didn't think we're that funny get big laughs and
you're just going, what was that all about? I didn't
think that would get a laugh? But it does. You
just never know, You just never know about you know,
(41:00):
certain things in your own movie that you think, you
don't even think about them, you know, and then all
of a sudden people are reacting to it. And it's
just amazing, you know, and just constantly surprising. Yeah, you know,
very true.
Speaker 4 (41:13):
You know, it's you know, a lot of these things
can become very subjective, you know, they sort of you know,
something's hit, some things don't later on, and then vice versa.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
And it meaning A problem with sending your movie to
a distributor online on a file is like, you know, well,
how is this guy going to watch this thing? Is
he going to watch it while he's you know, on
his laptop on the bus on the way home. Is
he going to watch it on his phone? Or is
he going to put it on the big screen when
he gets home and sit back with some friends and
watch it. You know, I mean, they say they, you
(41:43):
know they. I don't think anybody can really watch a
film by themselves on a small device and really have
a good response to it. You know, nothing looks as
good on a small device by yourself. I don't care
who you are. You know, you're not going to respond
to it as much as if, you say, with a
(42:04):
few other people, because you're you're focusing more on the
movie or watching the movie with other people in the
room than you are by yourself. You get distracted you
put it down, you stop it for a while. That's
not the way a movie is supposed to be. It's
a book, it's a it's a one thing, it's a
one time. You got to go from A to Z
with it, you know.
Speaker 4 (42:25):
Yeah, yeah, I want to ask you know, since the
you know, your movie Dark Sduction comes out today as
you know this podcast is being released. You know, Greg,
where can people find Dark Seduction at?
Speaker 3 (42:36):
It is going to be on pay per view, movie
on demand. You can order the BVD on Amazon. I
think it's going to be on iTunes and all of
the pay per view cable outlets in North America and
and just you know, look it up online Dark Seduction
(42:57):
pay per view or Dark Seduction VOD video onto MA
in in your area. So it's going to be on
cable outlets and video on demand outlets. And that's about
all I can tell you. I mean, it's gonna be
on so many of them. I don't know all the listings,
you know, but it should be available you know, Amazon,
(43:19):
iTunes and all the cable pay per views, so we'll
should be able to find it pretty easily.
Speaker 4 (43:29):
And for everyone listening, I'm going to make sure to
link to that in the show notes as soon as
I can find a you know, the where I can
sort of send you to, like maybe even Amazon or
gave an Xbox or all of them. So that way,
I'll put a few links in the show notes. You know, Greg, Greg,
you know, as we're talking, I have some Twitter questions
that came in. Would you mind answering one or two
matter every tournay todays up.
Speaker 3 (43:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (43:52):
My first question is what do you recommend for a
first time filmmaker in directing actors?
Speaker 3 (44:00):
That seems to be a tough thing. I think first
time director might do himself a big favor by maybe
taking an acting class. Guys that are coming more from
a script or an editing position and then moving up
to directing their own things might consider taking an acting
(44:22):
class just to get an idea of watching the teacher
direct actors and watching the actors work out a thene
and rehearse a scene and how it's all supposed to
go down. Because in actuality there's a camera rehearsal with
the actors rehearsal. Sometimes there's a couple of actors rehearsals
(44:43):
before the camera comes in, so that you can kind
of find the choreography and find the way you want
to do it, and then the camera guy comes in
and starts seeing how he can shoot the scene along
with the actors rehearsing it, and then you break for
makeup and touch ups and whatever else you need to do,
(45:04):
and then you come back and you're ready to go,
and then you shoot it. But you know, reading books
about acting, and it's a little over complicated. I mean,
there's this whole methodology that you know, there's different branches
of the method and all of that is well and good,
but that's usually the actor's responsibility to take that on
(45:26):
and learn that and use that as his own technique
and part of his craft to get where he needs
to be for an imaginary scene, you know, And so
directing actors in that, you know, if they need a
little time to cry, if they need a little time
to get into a certain headspace, an intensity or something,
(45:50):
you give them that time as long as it's not
too long a time. Give them a little, you know,
a minute or so to to do what they need
to do to get there, and you're better served. Sometimes
that's what it is. Sometimes Sometimes actors are you know,
in character, and they stay in character, and so there's
(46:13):
that to consider. Sometimes they're in a certain mood that
will help them create the character and the mood that
they're trying to achieve, and so you can't you kind
of have to kind of watch out for that sometimes,
and you know, and then some actors, you know, just
drop it the minute the ul cut and they're themselves again,
(46:36):
and then they jump back into character, you know, when
the cameras roll. So there's all kinds of different ways
that actors approach it and you just have to be
aware of all of that as a director. But basically,
you know, you've got to know when somebody hits a
sour note and of a line reading is not very good.
(46:58):
You really have to be able to tell that and
tell the actor how you want to adjust it. Not
doing a line you're reading for the actor, but go,
let's try that a little quicker, or try it a
little different way. It just seemed kind of falling, it
didn't sound real, or you know, something to that nature
where they you know, they get an idea, but you're
(47:20):
not insulting in them at the same time, because you
want to be really nice to your actors. You don't
want to be mean to them at all, because then
they get upset and they get nervous and they don't
perform as well. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (47:32):
Yeah, And you know, just one thing that someone who
once told me too it really helped me out when
I was, you know, making my student film was and
it's something you touched on Greg, which it reminded me
of was trying things a little bit differently. And it's
sort of what his mistake was the guy give me
advice was when he made a student film, he would
do every take exactly the same way, so every actor,
(47:54):
every performance was the exact same way. Lighting, same way, camera,
same way. Well, finally he realized, wait a minute, I
really all my takes are pretty much the same. So
you know, take you know, take one a you know,
take one is the same as take ten. So really,
at the end of the day, he said, you know
what I should have done was after each take, I
should have just tweaked that performance, make that adjustment, you know,
and just sort of try everything a different way, so
(48:17):
to speak, to sort of try to find the best
sort of way to handle a scene.
Speaker 3 (48:20):
Well, I mean you're going for something very specific. I
mean that's the thing. If like I'm a character like,
I just did this little horror movie called The borneerless Ones.
It's uh, I think it's coming out later in October
or whatever, but I saw it at a festival a
couple of weeks ago. And you know, if I'm a
(48:42):
creepy guy at a gas station, which I play in
this film, there's just so much leeway on each line
that I've got to work with. I'm going for a
specific kind of insulting, kind of creepy, kind of hardcore
feeling with this character, So I don't have a lot
(49:03):
of latitude. I'm really trying to pinpoint that feeling and
that that character, you know, And I think that's kind
of unless you're a character that's all over the place.
That's kind of what you're trying to do is, you know, endpoints,
your reactions, pinpoints, your your your lines to define the
(49:27):
character that you're playing, to be that character and how
that feels with a character. And there is a right
and wrong in that, I do believe. You know, sometimes
it feels more like the character, and then you say
it slow or you say it in a different way
than it doesn't feel like the character. And so that's
what you're doing. You're just trying to get that meter
(49:47):
as close to that character as possible. You know, yeah,
I think that's great advice. I think it's great advice. Greg.
Speaker 4 (49:55):
You know, Greg, you know, just in closing, you know,
we've been talking for about, you know, about forty five minutes.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Now we'll be right back after a word from our
sponsor and now back to the show.
Speaker 4 (50:13):
So in closing, is there anything that maybe we didn't
want to discuss that you want to sort of talk about,
or is there any sort of thing you want to
sort of any parting thoughts you have for us. It's
sort of for the period end this whole conversation.
Speaker 3 (50:24):
Well, I mean, you know, I've done a lot of
different aspects of the business, and it's a very difficult business.
I don't recommend it to anybody, but I at the
same time realized that film is a big thing, and
I would say, continue to support movies by going to
the movies, maybe not so many you know, comic book blockbusters,
(50:47):
but more independent cinema, because we still want to see
movies in the theater, and we still want to support
the theater showings of films. And you know, I would say,
don't pirate movies. Don't download pirated films because that only
hurts the filmmaker and it makes it much more difficult
to put films out there. You know, everybody wants something
(51:10):
for free on the internet. But we still we got
to get our money back, and we've got to try
to support the films that are made on a shoestring
budget that are good by paying a little you know,
four or five bucks to see them, you know. And
I don't think there's anything you know, I think that's
an honorable way to go, and I think that's what
we as film lovers, you know, should do. That's the
(51:34):
right thing to do. And you know, I'm hoping everybody
will enjoy Dark Seduction. And I've got another film, Midlife,
that's on iTunes and Indie Rain and a few other
outlets out there, and check that out. But Dark Seduction
is the big one, and it's you know, it's very
comic book, it's very cultish, it's very dark and moody,
(51:57):
but it's also extremely funny and I'm super proud of it.
And it's kind of different. It's it's unique, it's got
its own little thing going. Yeah, So I hope people
dig it.
Speaker 4 (52:09):
Yeah, And I'll make sure to again, everyone's going to
link to that in the show notes as well, especially
to you know, Greg's films.
Speaker 3 (52:17):
And there's also a dark Seduction page on Facebook, and
there's a dark Seduction Twitter on Twitter. So yeah, the
Facebook page is what I'm using now is and my
website is Gtfilm Productions dot com is my production company website.
Speaker 4 (52:36):
You read my mind, Greg sows. The next question we
repind you I do online an you're on Twitter too, right.
Speaker 3 (52:42):
Yes, Greg the actor on Twitter. And then there's a
dark Underslash Underslash seductions that's on Twitter as well.
Speaker 4 (52:53):
So Greg, Greg Travis, I want to say thank you
so much for coming on again. I always learned a
lot from my guests, and you know, Greg, you've continued
that that line of education, and I you know, this
has just been a phenomenal interview, especially because I don't
get enough actors on that. That's the case usually you
know a lot of screenwriters, a lot of directors, a
(53:14):
lot of producers. I don't get enough actors on here.
Greg Travis, I want to say thank you so much
for coming on and I wish you the best with
Dark Siding.
Speaker 3 (53:21):
Thanks to you, Dave, I really appreciate it. Good luck
with everything.
Speaker 4 (53:24):
Oh thank you sir, And if you ever feel like
you want to come back on, I would love to
have you on anytime. I really look forward to see
what you're going to do in.
Speaker 3 (53:30):
The Fiatre asolutely thanks to Dave appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (53:33):
I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
a great job on this episode. If you want to
get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
head over to the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot
tv for it. Slash four, thank you so much for listening, guys,
As always, keep on writing no matter what. I'll talk
to you soon.
Speaker 2 (53:49):
Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproof
Screenwriting dot tv.