September 25, 2025 • 49 mins
In this episode, Whitney Davis, a seasoned literary manager and script consultant, breaks down the real-deal process of getting noticed in Hollywood—from landing a manager to crafting query letters that don’t suck. Sharing her own unconventional path into the industry, Whitney offers raw, practical advice for screenwriters and indie filmmakers on how to pitch like a pro, avoid rookie mistakes, and build lasting relationships that actually move careers forward. This is a no-fluff, insider’s guide to breaking in and leveling up in the film industry.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
You are listening to the IFAH podcast Network.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number four thirty eight.
Your dream doesn't have an expiration date, Take a deep
breath and try again. Kat You Whitten.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Broadcasting from a dark, windowless room in Hollywood when we
really should be working on that next draft. It's the
Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and business of
screenwriting while teaching you how to make your screenplay bulletproof.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to another
episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. I am your.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Humble host Alex Ferrari.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Now.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof Script Coverage. Now. Unlike
other script coverage services, Bulletproof Script Coverage actually focuses on
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by professional readers, head on over to covermiscreenplay dot Com.
Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
So, my guest today is a literary manager and script
consultant and she runs her own consulting agency. And we
discussed that very question, what does it take to make
it to the next level? And we all know what
that next level is, and that's all really very subjective,
and I want to make sure everyone knows that because
if you know, if you have a reader script for
(02:00):
your next level is writing a script. If you've written
ten scripts in your next levels, you want to get representation,
you have representation in your next level? Is you want
to get it made by an A list cast and crew.
Sounds simple, right with guests Whitney Davis, Hey, Whitney, thanks
a lot for coming on the show.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
Hey, thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
You know, my my pleasure. You know, it's funny we
were trying to get a hold each other for a while. Now,
who would you just keep missing each other? But I'm
so glad we could finally connect because you know, I
saw your bio and you have a really really cool bio,
and I said, I got to get Whitney on the podcast.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
Well thanks.
Speaker 5 (02:39):
It's been quite a journey, that.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
Is for sure.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Yeah, And I actually wanted to ask about that journey,
and I wanted to ask, you know, Whitney, how did
you get started, you know, in the whole literary management business,
and how did you get involved in the consulting business.
So basically what I'm asking is where did this whole
journey start?
Speaker 4 (02:58):
Oh my gosh, this crazy story.
Speaker 5 (03:01):
And to make it short, because it obviously has been
a ten year journey. Essentially, I was in the right
place at the right time, with the right person.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
Is how this whole journey started.
Speaker 5 (03:12):
About ten years ago, I had moved to Los Angeles
with zero aspirations to be.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
In the entertainment in the three It wasn't even really.
Speaker 5 (03:19):
On my radar, and I had always thought I was
going to be a novelist. Actually that if I ever
really sat down and put pen to paper, which I
think is something that a lot of people struggle with
actually getting started. That if I ever actually got started
that I was going to write a book.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
And I was actually at a party.
Speaker 5 (03:35):
And this woman approached me and I didn't know who
she was or what she did, and she asked me
what I was doing was myself and I was like, well,
I'm actually raising a baby. And she's like, but no, honey, really,
I mean, what do you want to do? And I
was like, well, you know, maybe I'll write a book,
And so she started asking me about it, and when
I told her about this concept for my book, her
face just dropped and she was like, I'm going to
have my assistant contact to you tomorrow.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
And I was like, what is that?
Speaker 5 (04:00):
And so her assistant actually did come over the next day,
and I kid you not, this never happens. That was
a stack of TV pilot screeners like DVDs and a
stack of TV pilots and they said, forget your book.
Concepts were turning it into an original television series. And
she happened to be a TV lit agent with William
Morris at the time. And so that is how I
(04:21):
got my start and to segue into the other part
of it. You know, I started in the television business,
and then the ryer strike happened, and so people started
Once I was out of work, people started bringing me
their scripts just being like, hey, can you look this
over since you already kind of broke in, And I.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
Was like sure, and so I did it for free
for a while because they didn't know any better.
Speaker 5 (04:41):
And then I was like, maybe I should charge and
people will go away, and then it just got worse
and so I just did script development for a long
time and then crazy enough again, this just organically occurred.
Some of my clients that were starting to do well
in the contest asked if I would consider managing them,
and I said no for a long time, and then
it was just like I was actually already kind of
(05:03):
orchestrating meetings, and so I finally just said what the heck,
and I just jumped in with both feet.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
So that is how I got to where I am today,
in a nutshell, very crazy.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
So when you when you first moved to LA, was
there a reason that you moved to LA Because I
know you said you didn't want to be in the
entertainment business at that point.
Speaker 5 (05:24):
So my husband at the time, he was there for
grad school and so he had come to UCLA to.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Get his master's degree.
Speaker 5 (05:33):
And I actually had applied to be an English teacher
at Santa Monica High School, but then I found out
I was pregnant. So I just decided the baby was
coming in December, which was going to be in the
middle of the years.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
I just actually decided not to teach at all.
Speaker 5 (05:47):
And again, like it was just the perfect timing that, right,
you know, right after the baby was born and I
was kind of had my feet back, you know, up
again that I ran into this woman and started developing
my TV series and all that. So it was just
and it was hilarious because I was so green, I
didn't know anything.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
Like I was just like, oh, this is kind of cool.
Speaker 5 (06:08):
But now looking back on it, I'm like, oh, my gosh,
what an amazing opportunity.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
Like people would have killed to be in my position.
Speaker 5 (06:15):
And I was just kind of like doodling along like
it was no big deal. But now looking back at is,
I'm like, Wow, what an amazing you know, what an
amazing blessing and opportunities to just not have been afraid,
you know, I just didn't know anything, and I wasn't jaded,
so I wasn't afraid to open up my mouth and say,
oh yeah, here's my idea.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
And I essentially pitched her without knowing I was pitching her.
Speaker 5 (06:36):
So that's what I always tell people, that they just
need to do their pitches. You know, when they pitch,
they just need to do their pitches like they're having
a conversation, because whoever they're pitching is just a human
being like you and me. All they want is to
hear a great story. And I think people get really
nervous at the thought of pitching. But you know, the
other person listening to your pitch isn't like a unicorn,
like they just you know, they're just a regular human
(06:59):
who wants to find material.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
And so I just say, hey, the best way to
pitch is just having a conversation.
Speaker 5 (07:04):
You know, that's the best, the best advice I can
give on that, because that's how it happened for me.
It didn't even know it that it was happening, so
it was great.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
It's like what Dan Harmon said about you know, he
gave advice to pitching, and his advice was have you
He said when you ever when you're ever going out
there and you tell your friends about some movie and
they go, oh, should I see that movie? And and
you say yeah, And then your friends says, well what happens? Well, okay,
let me tell you what happens in the movie. He
says that, right there is how you should pitch to people.
He goes, just just telling them about this really cool thing.
Speaker 5 (07:36):
Yes, And I think that there's so much pressure these
days for you know, how to pitch, and I really
think there is no you know, formula if you would say,
I mean, I think everybody's so individual that I just
I mean, I did Great American Pitchfest in May, and
I was really amazed. Like I sat and probably listened
to one hundred and fifty pitches, and there was a
(07:56):
real big difference to the ones who were pitching comfortable
and like knwed their story well as opposed to those
who were trying I felt like to follow a very
formula pitch that like they're like like, I'm not doing this,
and you know, I could just tell that they were
tied up and am I giving them the right information
in the right in the right sequence.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
I guess?
Speaker 5 (08:16):
So yeah, I mean that's just something that I really
love to talk to people about is just pitching bravely,
like not being afraid to just say what they want
to say and not worrying about a formula or anything
like that.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
So I love it.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
So are you Are you still working with that with
the Asian manager?
Speaker 4 (08:35):
No?
Speaker 5 (08:36):
Actually, I mean we are still on great terms. But
after the like I said, after the so we kind
of went through the pitching process of pitching my series
at the time, and they had married me. For a
lot of writers that don't know this, I think that
a lot of you know, getting into the TV industry
is or any you know, whether it be feature or
(08:57):
film or feature film or TV, it's just like really
understanding the business aspect of being a writer. So you know,
I was like, oh, I'm going to sell this pilot,
blah blah blah. But really it was just, you know,
when we went on our general meetings, they just wanted
to see what kind of a writer I was and
what my personality was, and so I thought I just
had all of my expectations like turned upside down. So anyway,
(09:22):
after we pitched it and I didn't it didn't get bought,
but I got hired we went through that, and then
once the once the writers strike happened and I had
the baby and things were getting crazy, I just I
decided to just go with the script consulting and we
just kind of parted ways amicably. But it was just
because I kind of decided not to go back into
a writer's room per se, because it was just more
(09:43):
amenable to being a mom doing this scripts consulting thing,
and put I get so much.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 5 (09:59):
Satisfact out of people, out of helping people develop their concepts.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
Look it really, I really love that.
Speaker 5 (10:06):
So I think that's line management was a natural segue
for me because there's so much of that in managing
someone and helping them, you know, get to the next
level and developing their ideas and being a sounding board.
So to answer question, no, I'm not with that agent anymore.
But we you know, it just was a natural kind
of break and we're still on great terms. And I
(10:26):
fear every so often that she's a caa now.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
Actually so she even moved since then.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
But yeah, so you know, you brought about moving to
the next level, you know, as you know, as some
of the questions as you can see that came in Whitney,
I think that's a hot button issue for a lot
of people, is moving to that next level, you know,
And so spoiler alert for everyone listening, that's some of
the that's some of the questions that have come in.
(10:51):
But but before we get before we get to that,
I just want to ask, you know, Whitney, you know
you have worked under people like Steve Kaplan and Jen Grasani,
Lee jes Up by the way, they've all been on
the podcast. It's them all. Well, so, so how did
you end up working, you know, with a lot of
these people in the field, because these are all, you know,
well known people. Again you you've worked with Steve Kaplan,
(11:12):
Jen Grassani, Lead Jessup, John Truby, Chris Voldler. You know,
how did you end up working and meeting with all
these people?
Speaker 4 (11:20):
You know what?
Speaker 5 (11:21):
Honestly, I sauce them out, Like I was just like,
if I'm going to do this, and I want to
learn and you know, learn from the best, and so
I just made an effort, you know, to save like
this is kind of in that journey where I was
it was kind of this weird in between period where
I was doing the scripture consulting and was kind of
deciding like as I personally wanted, and I guess I'm
(11:43):
kind of an entrepreneur in that degree, deciding if I
wanted to take my career to the next levels and
going into management, and so I just knew who the
experts in the field were, and I was just like,
you know what, I'm going to go. I'm going to
find them out. I'm going to seek them out and
find them and talk to them. And so essentially I
just kind of made like a business plan that I
was going to save up certain amounts of money and
(12:04):
like invest in myself to go to their classes and
meet them and start relationship with them. And so that
I think is part of where why I am where
I am today because I wasn't afraid and I was like,
I'm going to do whatever it takes to just kind
of get get in front of these people and meet
them and talk to them, and so you know, and
(12:24):
then it's start being crazy that like we I mean,
it's such a small world. And now that I'm kind
of getting into that world with them, like I see
them everywhere, Like I was just with Jen and New York.
We were doing a conference together and I see lead
Jess up and like, I'm helping Steve with his comedy
class in January. So, I mean, that's how I did
(12:45):
it was I just took the initiative myself and went out,
was like, I want to be associated with the people
who know what they're doing, and I just took the
initiative to go find them and to build relationship with them.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
Actually, so that's how it happened. I just wasn't afraid,
I guess. So I hope that answers the question.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
So, I mean, you know, with the advent of the Internet,
I think it's made you know, everything a little easier
and a little harder at the same time. And one
of the things that's made a little easier is finding
these people because you know, all the people that we
just mentioned, they all have websites, yes, and so did
you did you find them through their websites or did
you bump into them maybe at a conference Goop?
Speaker 4 (13:25):
You know, I bumped into him all at conferences.
Speaker 5 (13:27):
I mean I knew people in the industry and I
had just been hearing about these people, and so like
I either attended I.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
Mean I met them all in person.
Speaker 5 (13:35):
I made an effort and again this is hard if
you're not local to LA, because a lot of the
people are local to LA.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
But I made the.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
Effort to know, go to the conferences to make sure.
I went up to them afterwards and spoke to them.
And you know, now I really consider them friends and colleagues.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
So I just I mean, I was truthful.
Speaker 5 (13:51):
I was like, hey, like I want to I want
to learn from you, like I want to know what
to do. But for people who aren't local to LA,
I mean all these people again, Lee, Steve, John Truby,
Chris Vogeler, Robert McKee, you know, all of these people
have I just say, the best thing that you can
do is access their information. I mean they have podcasts,
they have you know, online seminars, they have these things.
(14:15):
Like these people know what it takes to get to
the next level. I mean, they are the experts. And
I say, if you can't meet them in person, like
tweet at them, email them.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
You know, they do phone consults.
Speaker 5 (14:26):
They know that Lee does for sure, and like, just
stoke up everything you can from them because they definitely
they definitely know what they're doing. I do consults as well.
So I mean, you know, you just I think you
just got to put yourself out there and like make
it known. Like I always tell the writers I work with,
like make it known within the first five minutes of
a conversation that you want to write and you want
(14:47):
to do this and this is what your goal is. Like,
I think it's important to speak that step out into
the universe, to like let the world know, because it's
like you don't speak it, how would anybody know it,
you know what I mean. So I think there's a
lot to making verbal commitments and letting people know that
that's your goal because they can hold you accountable to
it and.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
Ask can you know? So I think that that's an
important aspect of a writing.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Career, definitely. And I definitely think also, you know, finding
out who you actually want to talk to and zeroing
in on those people is really important as well, and
in terms you.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
Know, in terms of like I think one of the
questions that the guy asked there was a guy that
was like, maybe he wasn't local to LA, but he
asked about queering. He's like, is that my only option?
Like I'm not in LA and like, you know, I
always say, even if you can make one trip out
to LA and go to like one of the big
conferences like Great American Pitch Fest or Story Expo or
(15:45):
like I know there's others that are like American Film
Market or any of those things, Like so many people
are at those and just even making face to face
contact for five minutes and handing them your business card
and making a contact, Like that's enough. There been in
a itself to like send a query and like agents
and managers show up to these things like to film
(16:05):
festivals and all these things. But I think that a
cold query can be a little hard and difficult in
terms of taking things to the next level. But I'm
just like, man, if you can invest and take one
trip out to LA like a year, like it can
do what and you go to the right event and
you know, make sure you talk to the right people,
like it can radically change the trajectory of your career.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
You know, we were talking about you know you you're
you went to the management side, uh, you know of
the business. And I wanted to ask your whitney, what
are some of the things that you know that have
if you have seen and that sort of like it is. Uh,
That's what I'm trying to say, is sort of like
a normal thing that you see, like the most common
error screenwriters make. Because I was trying to say, oh.
Speaker 5 (16:52):
Gosh, you know, that's a really tough question, because I
think everyone and obviously is so individual that I think
that one of the common errors that will turn either
an agent or a manager off is just the way
in which they go about contacting them.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
Actually, like you really.
Speaker 5 (17:16):
Need to research the agent or manager that you're trying
to talk to.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
I know that one of the.
Speaker 5 (17:22):
Big things among agent managers often if you're sending a
query letter that you're sending to a lot of different people,
a lot of times, like the person sending in either
the query for their film or their TV show or
their literary novel will sell the agent's name wrong or
spell the manager's name wrong. And that is like the
number one turnoff, Like you're not even paying attention to
(17:45):
what you're doing, you know, So number one, I think
you should paying attention to detail and showing that you're serious.
I think another things that they look for, like which
is crazy, is typos. They'll forgive them, but they're like
if an email is just chock full of type. They're
just like and people want to write like what is this?
Speaker 4 (18:03):
You know?
Speaker 5 (18:03):
So things said, those detail oriented things are one of
the things.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
The other thing is it's good to be.
Speaker 5 (18:10):
Persistent, Like I think it's always good to follow up
with an agent or manager. But you have to understand
that most agents and managers are absolutely drowning in either
scripts or books to read, like drowning all the time,
like you're always playing catch up. And so a major
turn off is like if you tell someone, hey, thank
you so much for submitting your script to your book,
(18:31):
like expect you know, to hear from me in four
to six weeks. And you know, an agent and amateur
who really writer, who isn't aware of how things operate,
They like, you know, they get antsy and they want
to know.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
And I totally understand because I've been there.
Speaker 5 (18:45):
But if they start emailing like every day for every
two days, which has.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
Totally happened, like have you have you read have you
read my book? Have you read my script? Have you
done this? Have you done that? Like or just I
forget it, Like if.
Speaker 5 (18:55):
They can't be like you know, that absolutely tends to
drive agents and managers crazy and they just you know,
they won't respond, like they just won't.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
They're just like these people can't be patient, like I'm not,
you know, I'm not.
Speaker 5 (19:08):
So I guess there's like I guess what I'm saying is,
there's a there's a particular like Stanford protocol in terms
I guess as behavior or general manners that those two
minor things can be enough to turn an agent or
a manager off, unfortunately.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
I think. So those are kind of my two two
big things I think of, which aren't even which aren't even.
Speaker 5 (19:32):
Material related, which is like a whole other you know,
which is a whole other thing. So those are like
actionable items that people can look for, like don't send
a query with typos, don't over you know, bother the
agent's managers. And then there's the material side of things
in terms of the content they send, which is like
a whole different ballgames that we could.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
Talk about, but I don't know how much time we have.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
and now back to the show.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
No, that sounds great, you if if you have the time,
I'd love to get into that. You've let them live.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
In terms is like you know, I think so to me,
says super quick. I think in terms of the content
people send, you know some people, you've got like two
types of people. And I don't mean this negatively at all,
but you've got your people who are just like, my
show is great, it's completely original, it's the next.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
Blah blah blah, which is totally awful to say.
Speaker 5 (20:31):
People are like sometimes they're like, I'm the next jk
Rowling or I'm the next Quentin Tarantino.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
It's like, don't you know, they'll say that.
Speaker 5 (20:38):
And there are things that it's like, do not compare
yourself to the greatest you know people out there.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
That's just a no note.
Speaker 5 (20:44):
But in terms of like the material, like I think
a lot of it is people just they want to
be a writer. And I just tell people like sometimes
it will come to me and they want to be managed,
and I'm like, well, okay, let me see what you have.
And really it comes to an aspect of like are
these people ready to be is there material ready to
be shopped?
Speaker 4 (21:03):
And the things that I look for to make sure
that a material, you know.
Speaker 5 (21:06):
That a that a either a script or a TV
show or a novel is ready to be shopped it's like,
is this story structure there, because a lot of times
it's like they don't even have like I'll read through
it and like key components of what makes the story
a story or missing, like there's no catalyst. It's like,
what's the insiding incident in this story? Or you know,
(21:26):
there is no Allah's lost moment where the character really
comes to this deep dark place where they have to
rise back to the top again.
Speaker 4 (21:34):
You know, is that's missing. It's like, you know, there's.
Speaker 5 (21:37):
Nothing I can't manage that now on my consulting developmental side, like, yes,
that's what I'll work with you to fix. But in
terms of you know, are you ready a lot of
another thing that will kill you know, a story or
something like that is really stilted dialogue. Unfortunately, dialogue is
one of the hardest things to write, and when you're
reading through a script, if it's really stilted or unnatural,
(21:59):
that sense, that will turn an agent or a manager
off when they're skimming through and reading. So you know,
those are the things that I think you really have
to pay attention to. And that's why the people like
Vogler and Grissanti and John Truby are absolutely like amazing.
Like Robert mckaye put a book out on dialogue and
I read it, and I mean, this is my beniness
(22:20):
and I like consider myself like pretty high up there.
Not Robert McKee standard, but like you know, I know
how to write dialogue and I read the book and
I was like blown away.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
I mean, it's just so good to be reminded of
this step.
Speaker 5 (22:34):
And I think people sometimes think that writing dialogue should
be an innate ability, Like we all talk, so we
all should be able to write that. But when you
translate that to a script or to a book, it just,
you know, it's hard. And so I think people the
best thing that they can do for themselves is just
practice daily read up on you know, techniques and ideas
(22:57):
from the experts, and just don't give up because that
and just keep working. And I think that that's like
the best thing you can do. And how does someone
read it before you send it to an agent or manager,
like have it covered or have Jen Grassanti or Lee
or me or someone you know take a look at it,
because that really helps to have someone in industry that
(23:17):
knows what is people want, know what's out there.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
To make sure you're on the right track. I mean,
I think feed that can be invaluable if you get
it from the right from the right source.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
And you know when I think a lot of times too.
You know, when you send a script to a agent
or a manager, usually it's going to go to their assistant, right,
you know, it's going to have their assistant read it.
And I think sometimes those assistants, you know, can this
get easily? And I've heard different things. Sometimes they say
(23:51):
they can easily just chuck your script, meaning if by
the first page they can they can see if so okay,
so that is right?
Speaker 4 (23:57):
Oh yeah, no, Well you know what's the crazy thing
is now for someone like.
Speaker 5 (24:00):
Me because I am a small boutique management firm, like
it is me and one other person's I'm obviously not
Circle as Confusion. I'm not you know, mad House. You know,
I'm not you know CAA. I'm not one of these
big things. So I actually read the scripts myself. But
what is true is this, And this is the truth people,
(24:22):
for those of you listening. The sad thing is this.
It's like if you're at one of those big houses,
and this is the problem. If an assistant or a
reader reads the script and gives it a consider or
you know, you know, pushes it on to their boss.
You know, they spend you know, the assistant spent all
(24:42):
weekend reading and if they say consider or that they're
going to send it on to their boss, that means
their boss, the manager itself, is going to take time
out of their day or their weekend to read it.
And if it sucks or it's awful and their assistant
passed it on, guess what happens to that ass They're
They're fired. It's so honestly, assistants, unless it is just
(25:06):
absolutely cream of the crop amazing, what the sad reality is.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
Is assistants are Assistants are scared to.
Speaker 5 (25:13):
Pass it on unless they can just absolutely tell it's amazing,
because they're afraid of their job. And I hope I
don't get in trouble for saying this, Like I know
that this is true and on certain levels at bigger firms,
so you just have to be So what I guess
it's to say is like it's just stup how it is. Unfortunately,
and so for me though, like being a small manager,
(25:35):
like I'm willing to take risks on certain people and
develop people and that's why I think the cold query
is a really scary thing because managers and agents oftentimes
it isn't always about the content that the writer has.
It's about the rider themselves, like they want to see
(25:56):
like I have spidy senses. It's really weird, like I
can sit down with the person and usually know within
less than five minutes if I'm going to work with
them or not, just based on their personality. So that's
why I tell people, if you can get in front
of agents and managers, your chances skyrocket, absolutely skyrocket, because
they're going to be working with you. And so even
(26:17):
though your content may not be the best, if they
can tell that you are a go getter and a
talented person, they're probably going to be more willing to
take a chance on you. And so that's why it's
just downright scary to send something in cold to like CAA,
for Cercles any of those big boys, just because that's
how the ball rolls. So but again, if you can
(26:39):
meet those agency managers that work at those places at
like industry events, then you're in a better, a much
much better scenario.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
You know, because you know, it's like I've had people
in here before and they would say you know, getting
a manager, getting an agent, or even a manager more
so than an agent, but it's a better relationship. You're
gonna be working that that person for for months or
years to come.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
I always say it is totally like a marriage.
Speaker 5 (27:05):
And you know what's a crazy thing is is I've
talked to people before where I've been meeting them kind
of see if we're gonna work together, and I've even
had to be like, look, it's not even about your content, like,
because honestly, I feel like I feel like every agent
and every manager kind of has like their specialty or
their niche where they feel most comfortable and so like
(27:26):
mine at the current moment is television. Like I feel
like I have much more connections and much more understanding
of the tee reworld than I do of the film world.
Do I know producers and people in the film world, Yes,
but I just don't feel as comfortable in that space.
So when someone comes to me and they ask me
what I consider managing that all they have is features
(27:47):
Like I sit there and I'm like, look, I'm just
gonna shoot straight with you, like your step is great,
but honestly, I just may not be the right manager
for you only because I don't think I'm going to
be able that I have what you know, that I
have the contents to shop you in the right in
the right places, and I don't want to do a
disservice to you knowing that I probably am not going
(28:09):
to be the best fit. So I'm just honest with
them and say, like, look, it's nothing about your your
ability or your talent, Like I just can tell that
we're not going to be a good fit, or like
I've pulled several people like you're great, that I'm just
not passionate about this particular project. And to work together,
like you guys, you have to be in pandem, like
you have to be on the same page. You have
(28:31):
to have a manager that's going to absolutely fight for
you and advocate for you one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
And so I just, you know, I sometimes feel like
it's just it really is.
Speaker 5 (28:42):
It's like a weird form of dating in a way,
like you really just have to make sure that you
click and that you gel together because you really are
in this weird writing marriage, you know.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
So I think that that's been an interesting thing.
Speaker 5 (28:54):
I've learned that I've turned people down who are really
talented I just know that I'm not the best fit
for them.
Speaker 4 (29:01):
So it's hard, it's really hard.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
Well, you know, that actually ties in with some of
the questions that we got Whitney, and we actually had
a pretty good amount of questions come in. You know,
I'm if you don't mind, I would you would you
mind answering a few questions right now? You're absolutely uh,
you know, actually just telling you with what you just said.
The first question is do I need more than one
script to approach a manager?
Speaker 4 (29:27):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (29:27):
Absolutely, you do, generally speaking, when you come to a
manager lead jessap This is one of the main nuggets
that I learned from her back in the day. You
really need what's called a writer's portfolio, and so generally
what that entails is you really need to have, even
if you're not a TV person, this is generally across
the board just what a screenwriter needs to have. You
(29:50):
need to have a really strong TV pilot. You need
to have a really strong spec pilot for something currently
or not spec pilot, but that's script for something currently
on air.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 5 (30:12):
So I tell people, you know, look, get watch television,
kind of pick your top ten, well, I call a
hit list of TV shows you'd really love to write for.
Then kind of knowing what your talent is, narrow that
down to like five, and then pick one of them
and do a really good spec because you know, people
(30:32):
at the networks and people you know at the production
companies want to see that you can mimic the tone
and style of someone else's work, and even at the
studios for features, because you know, they do work for
hire for rewrites all the time for movies, but they
want to keep it in kind of that same tone,
so they want to see that you can somewhat do
(30:52):
that and then also have a really really strong feature
and if you have more than that, then that great.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
But three is kind of the minimum. And then you know, people.
Speaker 5 (31:04):
Come in to evening like, well, I have five features
and three, you know, three TV pilots.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
What do I do?
Speaker 5 (31:11):
And I'm like, well, you probably have a pretty good
indication in your gut which went through your this, you
know or the strongest, like you need to take those really,
you know, read through them again, polish them, rewrite them,
and then use those to send out kind of as
your portfolio so absolutely, definitely more than one. Definitely one
TV pilot, one spec pilot for something currently on air
(31:33):
in any form like network, premium, cable or streaming.
Speaker 4 (31:37):
And then a really strong original feature that you've written.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
And also Whitney I think we I should probably mention too,
and maybe I should have asked you this question before,
but you know, there would you briefly just describe, you know,
the difference between a manager and an agent, because you know,
I sometimes think writers, you know, they always have an
obsession about getting an agent when really it should probably
get a manager.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
Correct.
Speaker 5 (31:59):
Absolutely, So for those of you listening, if you want,
you can go to my website, I actually just did
a four part series on representation, one on one explaining
all of this.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
But to really do a short recap.
Speaker 5 (32:11):
So, an agent is licensed by the state to negotiate
and execute the sale of your work. So they come
in whin their business to be done, so they are
the ones to do that, and they usually take ten percent,
and so they really don't do They may read your scripts,
but they aren't they don't have the time and aren't
(32:31):
going to take the time to read it, give notes
all of that. Agents generally tend to have anywhere from
thirty to fifty clients on their roster depending on where
they are in the life of their kind of career,
so they can take on a lot more people because
they literally are just doing the business side. The one
(32:52):
thing also you need to know is the agents are
not legally allowed to produce anything. Their only job is
executing and negotiating the contract for the sale. On the
flip side, the manager is not allowed to quote.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
Unquote procure.
Speaker 5 (33:11):
Employment for their client. They're not allowed to like quote
unquote get you a job like doing anything per se.
But they can help you sell individual scripts, but they
cannot like be the ones. Again, that's the agent role.
So what the manager does is the manager really is
(33:32):
all about developing your career. They are the ones that
usually go about helping you network and get meetings like
I just had a meeting with HBO and Hallmark a
few weeks ago, and Netflix is up on the thing.
They're the ones who are going to really organize and
schedule those meetings for you and get you in the
(33:54):
door a lot of times.
Speaker 4 (33:56):
Now. What's different though, is a manager can produce.
Speaker 5 (33:59):
Which in some senses is good because your manager is
way more invested in that sense, so they also take
ten percent of whatever happened generally because they're the ones
doing the heavy listing in the footwork of like helping
you develop your concepts and reading and giving you notes
and like really involved in the day to day. So yes,
(34:22):
at the beginning of your career, if you can snag
a manager like that's probably one of the best things
you can do. And a lot of people don't even
have agents. They can in lieu of an agents, they
can just use an entertainment lawyer, which is just the
same an entertainment attorney, which is just the same thing.
But what great was an agent? I'll say this caveat
which great was an Asian. If you have an agent
(34:42):
at CIA or one of the bigger firms, what's great
is if they have someone else in their agency, like
actresses and directors and all that. The great thing is
they can package you know, material and that will help.
So it's like if you have your script, but then
they have actresses ab and fee at their firm that
are wanting to attach, and then they also have this
(35:04):
director and then they can take it as one bid package.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
That definitely you know, incentivizes the.
Speaker 5 (35:11):
Sale So those are the two big things. Agents license
by the state, negotiate, execute the contracts. Manager is not
allowed to do that, but they can produce, and they're
the day to day development, getting you meetings, helping you network,
helping you brand yourself, helping you write, just kind of
grooming you for your career.
Speaker 4 (35:33):
So that's the short explanation. I hope that helps.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Yeah, that helped a lot, you know, and that's great information,
especially about packaging too. You know that that's something also
I hear, you know, people will always will always talk
about that, and you know, I think a lot of
times people sort of misconstrued that, and I think it's
almost like the whole age thing.
Speaker 5 (35:57):
Yeah, and it can happen on the management side. I mean,
I guess it's at your management for it, but it's
I feel like, I hope that's right, and I'm kind
of second guessing myself. I've heard it happening more on
the agency sides. In the management side, the same package,
but probably someone's gonna like write in and say I'm wrong,
So who knows. I'll put that at the caveat that
(36:17):
I'm not exactly sure, but it's in my brain at
the moment. That's what it's telling me, but may be wrong,
so sorry, if that's wrong information, I'll have to check.
But I'm pretty sure it's more on the agency side
than the management side.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
Did they do that?
Speaker 3 (36:31):
If anybody writes in, I'll just say it to you, Wedney.
I'll be like, listen, Whitney, this guys, this is rank people.
Speaker 4 (36:36):
I'll buy you a coffee. I mean, I don't know
what to say.
Speaker 5 (36:39):
So so yeah, so that's the differences between agents and managers.
So yeah, I think management that's just spot.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
I mean, I love it. I just see.
Speaker 5 (36:48):
I just love being a part of the It's a sickness,
really loving. I'll loving to be a part of the
process so much. People are like every day it's so funny.
I'm just like, why do I do this? Then, like
when like a breakthrough happens, I'm like, yes, this is
the best. I mean, it's just like it's it's such
a crazy, crazy, crazy existence.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
So yeah, it's like the plateaus and the hills, you
know what I mean, it's like the the highest of
highs and lows.
Speaker 5 (37:14):
W Wait, but the thing is, you know, and that's
why you know, I guess some of people could look
on it as being shady, even though I don't think
it's shady. Be'st I haven't given up the consulting side
of my business.
Speaker 4 (37:25):
Can you.
Speaker 5 (37:26):
People come to me and they're like, I want to
be managed. I know that they're just not there yet,
So I offer consulting services. And I always say, you know,
if you don't want to stay with me, because you know,
you think that's odd. Like I'm totally willing to, you know,
send people to several of my different colleagues.
Speaker 4 (37:42):
But like, the.
Speaker 5 (37:43):
Consulting side is just that I love so much too,
because I love the people that are that need the
expertise of an industry x you know, you know, an
industry like expert or whatever, and I love being that
person to help teach them and all that. So it's
kind of a it's kind of a crazy, crazy thing
I love doing THO have so I feel like I
(38:04):
can get away with it because my management, you know,
Collector is so small at the moment that I still
can help the people that are the up and coming
aspiring writers.
Speaker 4 (38:15):
So I really I really still enjoy doing that so
much too.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Yeah, I can tell you know you really enjoy doing it,
and I mean, you know, it's it's needed. You know,
you have to have people that really enjoy this actually
out there doing it. And you know, I love it.
Speaker 5 (38:33):
I love it so much, and I think some people
get really jaded and it gets tiresome. I just I
just find it all so fascinating, like the way that
the human mind works and the things that people can
come up with.
Speaker 4 (38:44):
I'm just like, I mean, I just like visibly.
Speaker 5 (38:47):
Like I mean, Peo will laugh at me because my
face just lies up.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
I'm like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 5 (38:51):
I'm just I'm like, even now, I'm thinking of some
of the stuff that some of my consulting clients are
pitching at Austin, and I'm just like, I cannot wait
for them to pitch it because I just get so
excited for them because the ideas are so freaking, you know, amazing.
Speaker 4 (39:03):
So we'll just we'll just see it's this sun exciting world.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
I actually have a few of the questions I I'm
going to try to answer or I've started trying to
ask these last two. So uh, Whitney other. This is
by Joe's screenwriter, and Joe asked, what are some of
your thoughts on the query letter? As a Hollywood outsider
was your contact? It seems like my only shot.
Speaker 5 (39:27):
Yeah, and so I feel like I kind of address
this a little bit earlier, but I'll expand on it.
So the query is a really test thing. Like to him,
I would specifically say, if you're a Hollywood outsider and
you don't live in LA, I would really just make
sure there is a process to the query. So I
would make sure and there's like an actual format to
a query letter for film and TV. So I would
(39:50):
look up or buy a book on how to specifically
query your book or your film or your TV show.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
We'll be right back after word from our sponsor and
now back to the show.
Speaker 5 (40:08):
Second, if there's a specific place that you know that
you want to send it, like, I would research those
agencies or those firms and check their submission requirements because
oftentimes certain places are closed to unsolicited queries and it's
referral only, so you need to check and make sure
(40:28):
that they're open to unsolicited queries. And yeah, for someone
who doesn't live in LA, that may be your only shot.
But like I said, it is not super expensive to
get to LA these days. I feel like, and it's
just like if you can save up and come to
one event or one kind of industry saying it Kim,
(40:49):
and again I would probably say Great American Pitchfest. Something
like that is like one of the best things that
you can invest in because you can get in front
of like a hundred managed companies and producers who you
can pitch to, and you know, it's just it can change,
It can change your life. Like honestly, so in terms
(41:11):
of a query, there's nothing wrong with him. I take
unsolicited queries you can submit soon in my website. I
know that a few others take unsolicited queries, like maybe
Circle of Confusion. But you know, the other thing I
would do to honestly for a person like that is
reach out to people on Twitter and ask if they
have managers or agents and like if you can get
(41:32):
a referral, like if you can send it to a
This is another way in which is a good point.
If you can find another writer who's currently represented and
you send them there your query first and have them
look get over and if they like it, they may
be willing to pass it on to their agent or manager.
And that's the way that it's not unsolicited anymore. So
you feel like you have to find these backdoor ways
(41:52):
in So if he can find someone on Twitter or
Facebook or LinkedIn that's currently a writer and currently reps, like.
Speaker 4 (41:59):
That might be a great way to go to if
he can't get to LA.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
You know, that's a great point, Whitney. You know, Twitter
is a phenomenal tool and I use it all the time.
I've always talked about the great uses of Twitter because
almost everyone now is on Twitter.
Speaker 4 (42:13):
Oh, I mean, Twitter is absolutely amazing.
Speaker 5 (42:15):
Like it's crazy to me, like about how many people
I've met on Twitter, Like I've gotten.
Speaker 4 (42:20):
A few clients off of twit off of Twitter.
Speaker 5 (42:23):
I it is insane, And I think to the screenwriting world,
it really is the best social media platform for connecting
for sure.
Speaker 4 (42:31):
Is Twitter? Honestly, I think it's way I think it
is the top one, honestly.
Speaker 5 (42:35):
So that's what I would say, is like cold Query,
make sure that they take submissions, it's not come to
an event and if not signed another writer who is
repped and see if they'll look at your stuff and
check it out, or several of the last one. It's
several of the if you can afford to hire one
of the consultants, they all I mean we all know people,
(42:56):
and so if they come across something that's really amazing,
like they aren't, they will be willing to pass it
on as well.
Speaker 4 (43:02):
So I mean, I think.
Speaker 5 (43:03):
And the other thing is contests, Like if you enter
contests and you place in a contest, all those lists
go to agents and managers the people that place. So
that's another way to break in for sure, and so
that may be easier than quarying.
Speaker 4 (43:15):
Honestly, it's just.
Speaker 5 (43:17):
You know, applying for a you know, entering into one
of the many, many contests out there.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
Yeah, you know, that's something I've heard before too, is
they want to see what you're your writing can do
up against other people's writing. And you know, I've heard
that where they want to see, you know, hey, why
aren't they these people going in this competition? You know,
why aren't they you know, doing something, and why aren't
they going that route?
Speaker 4 (43:38):
So if we want to say that's good, that's another
good way.
Speaker 5 (43:40):
If you're not in Hollywood, because I know they takes
you know, they it doesn't matter where you live.
Speaker 4 (43:45):
You can always enter those contests for sure.
Speaker 3 (43:50):
Uh So, Witney, you know, we've been talking for about
you know, forty minutes now. So in closing, is there
anything that we do get a chance to discuss that
you may have wanted to or a sort of you know,
anything you wanted to say to put a pure Atdennis
whole conversation.
Speaker 4 (44:02):
No, I mean, I just I.
Speaker 5 (44:03):
Think that I want to tell people that truly, if
they set their minds out to do it, it's amazing
that if they just keep at it, keep meeting people,
keep writing, things can happen for you. The two things
I say, the two peees of writing or patience and persistence.
So I think it just really is a journey. And
(44:25):
if you're patient yet persistent and just keep at it,
you know, I truly believe things will happen for people.
And I think it really is half relationships, half who
you know, and half you know.
Speaker 4 (44:37):
Craft and how well you write.
Speaker 5 (44:39):
So I just always tell people always be nice to
everybody you know you meet, make an effort to be
friends with them beyond just wanting to sell you know,
sell them or pitch them your idea, and just continue
to really practice the craft the writing, and write because
you love it, not because you want to make money
off of it.
Speaker 4 (44:58):
I mean, I think and people you know.
Speaker 5 (45:01):
Can make money off of it, and that's the great
But it's just like right because you love.
Speaker 4 (45:04):
It and that's what you really want to do.
Speaker 5 (45:06):
And I think the money will come if you go
you know, look at it as a business and go
about the right way of approaching it.
Speaker 4 (45:12):
So those are just kind of my last few nuggets
of as ice and encouragement. Just keep at it.
Speaker 5 (45:19):
Just patience and persistence is the key, and being nice
to people and it'll all, you know, hopefully it's fall
into place.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
So yeah, I like that last part too. Be nice
to people because they're you know, even on Twitter, Whitney,
And I'm sure you get this all the time. I
get a lot of people who immediately follow me or
they'll send me an email to my website and right
away they're asking something from me like hey, Dave, can
you retweet this? Can you can you do this? I'm like,
I don't even know who you are. I don't even
know what the movie is, right, Like why don't you?
Speaker 4 (45:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (45:51):
And I'm telling you I And what I really appreciate
is even the writers that I know once Tony, but
they actually just like act me out for coffee and
like we go to and just get to know each
other before they make, you know, a certain ask or whatever.
Speaker 4 (46:04):
I mean, it really is about.
Speaker 5 (46:06):
Just getting to know other writers and building those relationships
and you know, just acknowledging their successes before you start
asking favors of them. I just think there's so much
power and acknowledging success just to be like days, you
like do a great job at podcasting, like thank you
(46:26):
so much for the for what you put out there
in the Twitter universe and social media at large, and
start that conversation that way, and then maybe after a
few days, like, you know, it's been so great talking
to you. I was just curious if you know, maybe
we could do X, Y and V together and like
have something to offer back to them, like if you like,
I said, like, if you're gonna offer to like reach
you know, ask somebody to do this, be like, hey,
(46:48):
in return, I'm more than happy to do X, Y
and Z for you in the future, like see if
you can barter or something like that makes it a lot,
a lot, a lot more acceptable to me that people
would be willing as they know that you're also willing
to give on your end. So I think it's definitely
a give and take and the writing community is such
a great place. I just love it so much. So,
(47:09):
I mean that's what I always say. Be nice to people.
The first rule of everything. It will it will come
back around in a great, great way if you can
do that.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
You know that that's excellent advice. Whitney, Whitney, where can
you will find you online and they.
Speaker 5 (47:25):
Can find me at Whitney Davisliterary dot com and then
they can sign me across all social media at W
davisliterary dot com.
Speaker 4 (47:34):
I mean well at W. Davis Literary.
Speaker 5 (47:36):
Yeah, the handle on Twitter, he's booking, LinkedIn and everywhere else.
Speaker 3 (47:41):
I guess yeah, and everyone. I'm going to link to
that in the show notes. Whitney Davis, I want to
say thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
Speaker 4 (47:49):
He thank you for having me. It was an absolute blast.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
Oh I'm glad you had fun because this is your
first podcast. I'm glahead you know you had fun on it. Yes,
it was my thank you, Oh anytime. Best of luck, Whitney.
And you know, if you ever want to come back
on the show, please just let me know. I mean
more than happy to have you back on.
Speaker 4 (48:08):
I would love it.
Speaker 5 (48:09):
We'll have to figure something else to talk something else
to talk about, but for.
Speaker 3 (48:13):
Sure, Oh, there's so much we could talk about it.
Speaker 4 (48:16):
We just doe networking. I love talking about networking for writers.
It's like one of my favorites. We should do that.
Speaker 3 (48:23):
Oh that sounds good because I usually get asked about
how I how I network and when I go on
other people's podcasts.
Speaker 4 (48:28):
So we should do it. It'll be fun.
Speaker 3 (48:31):
Yeah, we could do like a dual networking thab be
pretty cool.
Speaker 4 (48:34):
Let's do it.
Speaker 3 (48:35):
I'm down, Whitney, thanks so much. Okay, thank you eighty time,
take care, bye bye.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
a great job on this episode. If you want to
get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
head over to the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot
tv for it. Slash four thirty eight, thank you so
much for listening, guys, As always, keep on writing no
matter what. I'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproof
Screenwriting dot tv.
You are listening to the IFAH podcast Network.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to
ifahpodcastnetwork dot com.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number four thirty eight.
Your dream doesn't have an expiration date, Take a deep
breath and try again. Kat You Whitten.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Broadcasting from a dark, windowless room in Hollywood when we
really should be working on that next draft. It's the
Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and business of
screenwriting while teaching you how to make your screenplay bulletproof.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to another
episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. I am your.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Humble host Alex Ferrari.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Now.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof Script Coverage. Now. Unlike
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the kind of project you are in the goals of
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There's no reason to get coverage from a reader that
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by professional readers, head on over to covermiscreenplay dot Com.
Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
So, my guest today is a literary manager and script
consultant and she runs her own consulting agency. And we
discussed that very question, what does it take to make
it to the next level? And we all know what
that next level is, and that's all really very subjective,
and I want to make sure everyone knows that because
if you know, if you have a reader script for
(02:00):
your next level is writing a script. If you've written
ten scripts in your next levels, you want to get representation,
you have representation in your next level? Is you want
to get it made by an A list cast and crew.
Sounds simple, right with guests Whitney Davis, Hey, Whitney, thanks
a lot for coming on the show.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
Hey, thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
You know, my my pleasure. You know, it's funny we
were trying to get a hold each other for a while. Now,
who would you just keep missing each other? But I'm
so glad we could finally connect because you know, I
saw your bio and you have a really really cool bio,
and I said, I got to get Whitney on the podcast.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
Well thanks.
Speaker 5 (02:39):
It's been quite a journey, that.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
Is for sure.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Yeah, And I actually wanted to ask about that journey,
and I wanted to ask, you know, Whitney, how did
you get started, you know, in the whole literary management business,
and how did you get involved in the consulting business.
So basically what I'm asking is where did this whole
journey start?
Speaker 4 (02:58):
Oh my gosh, this crazy story.
Speaker 5 (03:01):
And to make it short, because it obviously has been
a ten year journey. Essentially, I was in the right
place at the right time, with the right person.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
Is how this whole journey started.
Speaker 5 (03:12):
About ten years ago, I had moved to Los Angeles
with zero aspirations to be.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
In the entertainment in the three It wasn't even really.
Speaker 5 (03:19):
On my radar, and I had always thought I was
going to be a novelist. Actually that if I ever
really sat down and put pen to paper, which I
think is something that a lot of people struggle with
actually getting started. That if I ever actually got started
that I was going to write a book.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
And I was actually at a party.
Speaker 5 (03:35):
And this woman approached me and I didn't know who
she was or what she did, and she asked me
what I was doing was myself and I was like, well,
I'm actually raising a baby. And she's like, but no, honey, really,
I mean, what do you want to do? And I
was like, well, you know, maybe I'll write a book,
And so she started asking me about it, and when
I told her about this concept for my book, her
face just dropped and she was like, I'm going to
have my assistant contact to you tomorrow.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
And I was like, what is that?
Speaker 5 (04:00):
And so her assistant actually did come over the next day,
and I kid you not, this never happens. That was
a stack of TV pilot screeners like DVDs and a
stack of TV pilots and they said, forget your book.
Concepts were turning it into an original television series. And
she happened to be a TV lit agent with William
Morris at the time. And so that is how I
(04:21):
got my start and to segue into the other part
of it. You know, I started in the television business,
and then the ryer strike happened, and so people started
Once I was out of work, people started bringing me
their scripts just being like, hey, can you look this
over since you already kind of broke in, And I.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
Was like sure, and so I did it for free
for a while because they didn't know any better.
Speaker 5 (04:41):
And then I was like, maybe I should charge and
people will go away, and then it just got worse
and so I just did script development for a long
time and then crazy enough again, this just organically occurred.
Some of my clients that were starting to do well
in the contest asked if I would consider managing them,
and I said no for a long time, and then
it was just like I was actually already kind of
(05:03):
orchestrating meetings, and so I finally just said what the heck,
and I just jumped in with both feet.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
So that is how I got to where I am today,
in a nutshell, very crazy.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
So when you when you first moved to LA, was
there a reason that you moved to LA Because I
know you said you didn't want to be in the
entertainment business at that point.
Speaker 5 (05:24):
So my husband at the time, he was there for
grad school and so he had come to UCLA to.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Get his master's degree.
Speaker 5 (05:33):
And I actually had applied to be an English teacher
at Santa Monica High School, but then I found out
I was pregnant. So I just decided the baby was
coming in December, which was going to be in the
middle of the years.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
I just actually decided not to teach at all.
Speaker 5 (05:47):
And again, like it was just the perfect timing that, right,
you know, right after the baby was born and I
was kind of had my feet back, you know, up
again that I ran into this woman and started developing
my TV series and all that. So it was just
and it was hilarious because I was so green, I
didn't know anything.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
Like I was just like, oh, this is kind of cool.
Speaker 5 (06:08):
But now looking back on it, I'm like, oh, my gosh,
what an amazing opportunity.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
Like people would have killed to be in my position.
Speaker 5 (06:15):
And I was just kind of like doodling along like
it was no big deal. But now looking back at is,
I'm like, Wow, what an amazing you know, what an
amazing blessing and opportunities to just not have been afraid,
you know, I just didn't know anything, and I wasn't jaded,
so I wasn't afraid to open up my mouth and say,
oh yeah, here's my idea.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
And I essentially pitched her without knowing I was pitching her.
Speaker 5 (06:36):
So that's what I always tell people, that they just
need to do their pitches. You know, when they pitch,
they just need to do their pitches like they're having
a conversation, because whoever they're pitching is just a human
being like you and me. All they want is to
hear a great story. And I think people get really
nervous at the thought of pitching. But you know, the
other person listening to your pitch isn't like a unicorn,
like they just you know, they're just a regular human
(06:59):
who wants to find material.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
And so I just say, hey, the best way to
pitch is just having a conversation.
Speaker 5 (07:04):
You know, that's the best, the best advice I can
give on that, because that's how it happened for me.
It didn't even know it that it was happening, so
it was great.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
It's like what Dan Harmon said about you know, he
gave advice to pitching, and his advice was have you
He said when you ever when you're ever going out
there and you tell your friends about some movie and
they go, oh, should I see that movie? And and
you say yeah, And then your friends says, well what happens? Well, okay,
let me tell you what happens in the movie. He
says that, right there is how you should pitch to people.
He goes, just just telling them about this really cool thing.
Speaker 5 (07:36):
Yes, And I think that there's so much pressure these
days for you know, how to pitch, and I really
think there is no you know, formula if you would say,
I mean, I think everybody's so individual that I just
I mean, I did Great American Pitchfest in May, and
I was really amazed. Like I sat and probably listened
to one hundred and fifty pitches, and there was a
(07:56):
real big difference to the ones who were pitching comfortable
and like knwed their story well as opposed to those
who were trying I felt like to follow a very
formula pitch that like they're like like, I'm not doing this,
and you know, I could just tell that they were
tied up and am I giving them the right information
in the right in the right sequence.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
I guess?
Speaker 5 (08:16):
So yeah, I mean that's just something that I really
love to talk to people about is just pitching bravely,
like not being afraid to just say what they want
to say and not worrying about a formula or anything
like that.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
So I love it.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
So are you Are you still working with that with
the Asian manager?
Speaker 4 (08:35):
No?
Speaker 5 (08:36):
Actually, I mean we are still on great terms. But
after the like I said, after the so we kind
of went through the pitching process of pitching my series
at the time, and they had married me. For a
lot of writers that don't know this, I think that
a lot of you know, getting into the TV industry
is or any you know, whether it be feature or
(08:57):
film or feature film or TV, it's just like really
understanding the business aspect of being a writer. So you know,
I was like, oh, I'm going to sell this pilot,
blah blah blah. But really it was just, you know,
when we went on our general meetings, they just wanted
to see what kind of a writer I was and
what my personality was, and so I thought I just
had all of my expectations like turned upside down. So anyway,
(09:22):
after we pitched it and I didn't it didn't get bought,
but I got hired we went through that, and then
once the once the writers strike happened and I had
the baby and things were getting crazy, I just I
decided to just go with the script consulting and we
just kind of parted ways amicably. But it was just
because I kind of decided not to go back into
a writer's room per se, because it was just more
(09:43):
amenable to being a mom doing this scripts consulting thing,
and put I get so much.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 5 (09:59):
Satisfact out of people, out of helping people develop their concepts.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
Look it really, I really love that.
Speaker 5 (10:06):
So I think that's line management was a natural segue
for me because there's so much of that in managing
someone and helping them, you know, get to the next
level and developing their ideas and being a sounding board.
So to answer question, no, I'm not with that agent anymore.
But we you know, it just was a natural kind
of break and we're still on great terms. And I
(10:26):
fear every so often that she's a caa now.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
Actually so she even moved since then.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
But yeah, so you know, you brought about moving to
the next level, you know, as you know, as some
of the questions as you can see that came in Whitney,
I think that's a hot button issue for a lot
of people, is moving to that next level, you know,
And so spoiler alert for everyone listening, that's some of
the that's some of the questions that have come in.
(10:51):
But but before we get before we get to that,
I just want to ask, you know, Whitney, you know
you have worked under people like Steve Kaplan and Jen Grasani,
Lee jes Up by the way, they've all been on
the podcast. It's them all. Well, so, so how did
you end up working, you know, with a lot of
these people in the field, because these are all, you know,
well known people. Again you you've worked with Steve Kaplan,
(11:12):
Jen Grassani, Lead Jessup, John Truby, Chris Voldler. You know,
how did you end up working and meeting with all
these people?
Speaker 4 (11:20):
You know what?
Speaker 5 (11:21):
Honestly, I sauce them out, Like I was just like,
if I'm going to do this, and I want to
learn and you know, learn from the best, and so
I just made an effort, you know, to save like
this is kind of in that journey where I was
it was kind of this weird in between period where
I was doing the scripture consulting and was kind of
deciding like as I personally wanted, and I guess I'm
(11:43):
kind of an entrepreneur in that degree, deciding if I
wanted to take my career to the next levels and
going into management, and so I just knew who the
experts in the field were, and I was just like,
you know what, I'm going to go. I'm going to
find them out. I'm going to seek them out and
find them and talk to them. And so essentially I
just kind of made like a business plan that I
was going to save up certain amounts of money and
(12:04):
like invest in myself to go to their classes and
meet them and start relationship with them. And so that
I think is part of where why I am where
I am today because I wasn't afraid and I was like,
I'm going to do whatever it takes to just kind
of get get in front of these people and meet
them and talk to them, and so you know, and
(12:24):
then it's start being crazy that like we I mean,
it's such a small world. And now that I'm kind
of getting into that world with them, like I see
them everywhere, Like I was just with Jen and New York.
We were doing a conference together and I see lead
Jess up and like, I'm helping Steve with his comedy
class in January. So, I mean, that's how I did
(12:45):
it was I just took the initiative myself and went out,
was like, I want to be associated with the people
who know what they're doing, and I just took the
initiative to go find them and to build relationship with them.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
Actually, so that's how it happened. I just wasn't afraid,
I guess. So I hope that answers the question.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
So, I mean, you know, with the advent of the Internet,
I think it's made you know, everything a little easier
and a little harder at the same time. And one
of the things that's made a little easier is finding
these people because you know, all the people that we
just mentioned, they all have websites, yes, and so did
you did you find them through their websites or did
you bump into them maybe at a conference Goop?
Speaker 4 (13:25):
You know, I bumped into him all at conferences.
Speaker 5 (13:27):
I mean I knew people in the industry and I
had just been hearing about these people, and so like
I either attended I.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
Mean I met them all in person.
Speaker 5 (13:35):
I made an effort and again this is hard if
you're not local to LA, because a lot of the
people are local to LA.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
But I made the.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
Effort to know, go to the conferences to make sure.
I went up to them afterwards and spoke to them.
And you know, now I really consider them friends and colleagues.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
So I just I mean, I was truthful.
Speaker 5 (13:51):
I was like, hey, like I want to I want
to learn from you, like I want to know what
to do. But for people who aren't local to LA,
I mean all these people again, Lee, Steve, John Truby,
Chris Vogeler, Robert McKee, you know, all of these people
have I just say, the best thing that you can
do is access their information. I mean they have podcasts,
they have you know, online seminars, they have these things.
(14:15):
Like these people know what it takes to get to
the next level. I mean, they are the experts. And
I say, if you can't meet them in person, like
tweet at them, email them.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
You know, they do phone consults.
Speaker 5 (14:26):
They know that Lee does for sure, and like, just
stoke up everything you can from them because they definitely
they definitely know what they're doing. I do consults as well.
So I mean, you know, you just I think you
just got to put yourself out there and like make
it known. Like I always tell the writers I work with,
like make it known within the first five minutes of
a conversation that you want to write and you want
(14:47):
to do this and this is what your goal is. Like,
I think it's important to speak that step out into
the universe, to like let the world know, because it's
like you don't speak it, how would anybody know it,
you know what I mean. So I think there's a
lot to making verbal commitments and letting people know that
that's your goal because they can hold you accountable to
it and.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
Ask can you know? So I think that that's an
important aspect of a writing.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Career, definitely. And I definitely think also, you know, finding
out who you actually want to talk to and zeroing
in on those people is really important as well, and
in terms you.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
Know, in terms of like I think one of the
questions that the guy asked there was a guy that
was like, maybe he wasn't local to LA, but he
asked about queering. He's like, is that my only option?
Like I'm not in LA and like, you know, I
always say, even if you can make one trip out
to LA and go to like one of the big
conferences like Great American Pitch Fest or Story Expo or
(15:45):
like I know there's others that are like American Film
Market or any of those things, Like so many people
are at those and just even making face to face
contact for five minutes and handing them your business card
and making a contact, Like that's enough. There been in
a itself to like send a query and like agents
and managers show up to these things like to film
(16:05):
festivals and all these things. But I think that a
cold query can be a little hard and difficult in
terms of taking things to the next level. But I'm
just like, man, if you can invest and take one
trip out to LA like a year, like it can
do what and you go to the right event and
you know, make sure you talk to the right people,
like it can radically change the trajectory of your career.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
You know, we were talking about you know you you're
you went to the management side, uh, you know of
the business. And I wanted to ask your whitney, what
are some of the things that you know that have
if you have seen and that sort of like it is. Uh,
That's what I'm trying to say, is sort of like
a normal thing that you see, like the most common
error screenwriters make. Because I was trying to say, oh.
Speaker 5 (16:52):
Gosh, you know, that's a really tough question, because I
think everyone and obviously is so individual that I think
that one of the common errors that will turn either
an agent or a manager off is just the way
in which they go about contacting them.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
Actually, like you really.
Speaker 5 (17:16):
Need to research the agent or manager that you're trying
to talk to.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
I know that one of the.
Speaker 5 (17:22):
Big things among agent managers often if you're sending a
query letter that you're sending to a lot of different people,
a lot of times, like the person sending in either
the query for their film or their TV show or
their literary novel will sell the agent's name wrong or
spell the manager's name wrong. And that is like the
number one turnoff, Like you're not even paying attention to
(17:45):
what you're doing, you know, So number one, I think
you should paying attention to detail and showing that you're serious.
I think another things that they look for, like which
is crazy, is typos. They'll forgive them, but they're like
if an email is just chock full of type. They're
just like and people want to write like what is this?
Speaker 4 (18:03):
You know?
Speaker 5 (18:03):
So things said, those detail oriented things are one of
the things.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
The other thing is it's good to be.
Speaker 5 (18:10):
Persistent, Like I think it's always good to follow up
with an agent or manager. But you have to understand
that most agents and managers are absolutely drowning in either
scripts or books to read, like drowning all the time,
like you're always playing catch up. And so a major
turn off is like if you tell someone, hey, thank
you so much for submitting your script to your book,
(18:31):
like expect you know, to hear from me in four
to six weeks. And you know, an agent and amateur
who really writer, who isn't aware of how things operate,
They like, you know, they get antsy and they want
to know.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
And I totally understand because I've been there.
Speaker 5 (18:45):
But if they start emailing like every day for every
two days, which has.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
Totally happened, like have you have you read have you
read my book? Have you read my script? Have you
done this? Have you done that? Like or just I
forget it, Like if.
Speaker 5 (18:55):
They can't be like you know, that absolutely tends to
drive agents and managers crazy and they just you know,
they won't respond, like they just won't.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
They're just like these people can't be patient, like I'm not,
you know, I'm not.
Speaker 5 (19:08):
So I guess there's like I guess what I'm saying is,
there's a there's a particular like Stanford protocol in terms
I guess as behavior or general manners that those two
minor things can be enough to turn an agent or
a manager off, unfortunately.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
I think. So those are kind of my two two
big things I think of, which aren't even which aren't even.
Speaker 5 (19:32):
Material related, which is like a whole other you know,
which is a whole other thing. So those are like
actionable items that people can look for, like don't send
a query with typos, don't over you know, bother the
agent's managers. And then there's the material side of things
in terms of the content they send, which is like
a whole different ballgames that we could.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
Talk about, but I don't know how much time we have.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
and now back to the show.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
No, that sounds great, you if if you have the time,
I'd love to get into that. You've let them live.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
In terms is like you know, I think so to me,
says super quick. I think in terms of the content
people send, you know some people, you've got like two
types of people. And I don't mean this negatively at all,
but you've got your people who are just like, my
show is great, it's completely original, it's the next.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
Blah blah blah, which is totally awful to say.
Speaker 5 (20:31):
People are like sometimes they're like, I'm the next jk
Rowling or I'm the next Quentin Tarantino.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
It's like, don't you know, they'll say that.
Speaker 5 (20:38):
And there are things that it's like, do not compare
yourself to the greatest you know people out there.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
That's just a no note.
Speaker 5 (20:44):
But in terms of like the material, like I think
a lot of it is people just they want to
be a writer. And I just tell people like sometimes
it will come to me and they want to be managed,
and I'm like, well, okay, let me see what you have.
And really it comes to an aspect of like are
these people ready to be is there material ready to
be shopped?
Speaker 4 (21:03):
And the things that I look for to make sure
that a material, you know.
Speaker 5 (21:06):
That a that a either a script or a TV
show or a novel is ready to be shopped it's like,
is this story structure there, because a lot of times
it's like they don't even have like I'll read through
it and like key components of what makes the story
a story or missing, like there's no catalyst. It's like,
what's the insiding incident in this story? Or you know,
(21:26):
there is no Allah's lost moment where the character really
comes to this deep dark place where they have to
rise back to the top again.
Speaker 4 (21:34):
You know, is that's missing. It's like, you know, there's.
Speaker 5 (21:37):
Nothing I can't manage that now on my consulting developmental side, like, yes,
that's what I'll work with you to fix. But in
terms of you know, are you ready a lot of
another thing that will kill you know, a story or
something like that is really stilted dialogue. Unfortunately, dialogue is
one of the hardest things to write, and when you're
reading through a script, if it's really stilted or unnatural,
(21:59):
that sense, that will turn an agent or a manager
off when they're skimming through and reading. So you know,
those are the things that I think you really have
to pay attention to. And that's why the people like
Vogler and Grissanti and John Truby are absolutely like amazing.
Like Robert mckaye put a book out on dialogue and
I read it, and I mean, this is my beniness
(22:20):
and I like consider myself like pretty high up there.
Not Robert McKee standard, but like you know, I know
how to write dialogue and I read the book and
I was like blown away.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
I mean, it's just so good to be reminded of
this step.
Speaker 5 (22:34):
And I think people sometimes think that writing dialogue should
be an innate ability, Like we all talk, so we
all should be able to write that. But when you
translate that to a script or to a book, it just,
you know, it's hard. And so I think people the
best thing that they can do for themselves is just
practice daily read up on you know, techniques and ideas
(22:57):
from the experts, and just don't give up because that
and just keep working. And I think that that's like
the best thing you can do. And how does someone
read it before you send it to an agent or manager,
like have it covered or have Jen Grassanti or Lee
or me or someone you know take a look at it,
because that really helps to have someone in industry that
(23:17):
knows what is people want, know what's out there.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
To make sure you're on the right track. I mean,
I think feed that can be invaluable if you get
it from the right from the right source.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
And you know when I think a lot of times too.
You know, when you send a script to a agent
or a manager, usually it's going to go to their assistant, right,
you know, it's going to have their assistant read it.
And I think sometimes those assistants, you know, can this
get easily? And I've heard different things. Sometimes they say
(23:51):
they can easily just chuck your script, meaning if by
the first page they can they can see if so okay,
so that is right?
Speaker 4 (23:57):
Oh yeah, no, Well you know what's the crazy thing
is now for someone like.
Speaker 5 (24:00):
Me because I am a small boutique management firm, like
it is me and one other person's I'm obviously not
Circle as Confusion. I'm not you know, mad House. You know,
I'm not you know CAA. I'm not one of these
big things. So I actually read the scripts myself. But
what is true is this, And this is the truth people,
(24:22):
for those of you listening. The sad thing is this.
It's like if you're at one of those big houses,
and this is the problem. If an assistant or a
reader reads the script and gives it a consider or
you know, you know, pushes it on to their boss.
You know, they spend you know, the assistant spent all
(24:42):
weekend reading and if they say consider or that they're
going to send it on to their boss, that means
their boss, the manager itself, is going to take time
out of their day or their weekend to read it.
And if it sucks or it's awful and their assistant
passed it on, guess what happens to that ass They're
They're fired. It's so honestly, assistants, unless it is just
(25:06):
absolutely cream of the crop amazing, what the sad reality is.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
Is assistants are Assistants are scared to.
Speaker 5 (25:13):
Pass it on unless they can just absolutely tell it's amazing,
because they're afraid of their job. And I hope I
don't get in trouble for saying this, Like I know
that this is true and on certain levels at bigger firms,
so you just have to be So what I guess
it's to say is like it's just stup how it is. Unfortunately,
and so for me though, like being a small manager,
(25:35):
like I'm willing to take risks on certain people and
develop people and that's why I think the cold query
is a really scary thing because managers and agents oftentimes
it isn't always about the content that the writer has.
It's about the rider themselves, like they want to see
(25:56):
like I have spidy senses. It's really weird, like I
can sit down with the person and usually know within
less than five minutes if I'm going to work with
them or not, just based on their personality. So that's
why I tell people, if you can get in front
of agents and managers, your chances skyrocket, absolutely skyrocket, because
they're going to be working with you. And so even
(26:17):
though your content may not be the best, if they
can tell that you are a go getter and a
talented person, they're probably going to be more willing to
take a chance on you. And so that's why it's
just downright scary to send something in cold to like CAA,
for Cercles any of those big boys, just because that's
how the ball rolls. So but again, if you can
(26:39):
meet those agency managers that work at those places at
like industry events, then you're in a better, a much
much better scenario.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
You know, because you know, it's like I've had people
in here before and they would say you know, getting
a manager, getting an agent, or even a manager more
so than an agent, but it's a better relationship. You're
gonna be working that that person for for months or
years to come.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
I always say it is totally like a marriage.
Speaker 5 (27:05):
And you know what's a crazy thing is is I've
talked to people before where I've been meeting them kind
of see if we're gonna work together, and I've even
had to be like, look, it's not even about your content, like,
because honestly, I feel like I feel like every agent
and every manager kind of has like their specialty or
their niche where they feel most comfortable and so like
(27:26):
mine at the current moment is television. Like I feel
like I have much more connections and much more understanding
of the tee reworld than I do of the film world.
Do I know producers and people in the film world, Yes,
but I just don't feel as comfortable in that space.
So when someone comes to me and they ask me
what I consider managing that all they have is features
(27:47):
Like I sit there and I'm like, look, I'm just
gonna shoot straight with you, like your step is great,
but honestly, I just may not be the right manager
for you only because I don't think I'm going to
be able that I have what you know, that I
have the contents to shop you in the right in
the right places, and I don't want to do a
disservice to you knowing that I probably am not going
(28:09):
to be the best fit. So I'm just honest with
them and say, like, look, it's nothing about your your
ability or your talent, Like I just can tell that
we're not going to be a good fit, or like
I've pulled several people like you're great, that I'm just
not passionate about this particular project. And to work together,
like you guys, you have to be in pandem, like
you have to be on the same page. You have
(28:31):
to have a manager that's going to absolutely fight for
you and advocate for you one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
And so I just, you know, I sometimes feel like
it's just it really is.
Speaker 5 (28:42):
It's like a weird form of dating in a way,
like you really just have to make sure that you
click and that you gel together because you really are
in this weird writing marriage, you know.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
So I think that that's been an interesting thing.
Speaker 5 (28:54):
I've learned that I've turned people down who are really
talented I just know that I'm not the best fit
for them.
Speaker 4 (29:01):
So it's hard, it's really hard.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
Well, you know, that actually ties in with some of
the questions that we got Whitney, and we actually had
a pretty good amount of questions come in. You know,
I'm if you don't mind, I would you would you
mind answering a few questions right now? You're absolutely uh,
you know, actually just telling you with what you just said.
The first question is do I need more than one
script to approach a manager?
Speaker 4 (29:27):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (29:27):
Absolutely, you do, generally speaking, when you come to a
manager lead jessap This is one of the main nuggets
that I learned from her back in the day. You
really need what's called a writer's portfolio, and so generally
what that entails is you really need to have, even
if you're not a TV person, this is generally across
the board just what a screenwriter needs to have. You
(29:50):
need to have a really strong TV pilot. You need
to have a really strong spec pilot for something currently
or not spec pilot, but that's script for something currently
on air.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 5 (30:12):
So I tell people, you know, look, get watch television,
kind of pick your top ten, well, I call a
hit list of TV shows you'd really love to write for.
Then kind of knowing what your talent is, narrow that
down to like five, and then pick one of them
and do a really good spec because you know, people
(30:32):
at the networks and people you know at the production
companies want to see that you can mimic the tone
and style of someone else's work, and even at the
studios for features, because you know, they do work for
hire for rewrites all the time for movies, but they
want to keep it in kind of that same tone,
so they want to see that you can somewhat do
(30:52):
that and then also have a really really strong feature
and if you have more than that, then that great.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
But three is kind of the minimum. And then you know, people.
Speaker 5 (31:04):
Come in to evening like, well, I have five features
and three, you know, three TV pilots.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
What do I do?
Speaker 5 (31:11):
And I'm like, well, you probably have a pretty good
indication in your gut which went through your this, you
know or the strongest, like you need to take those really,
you know, read through them again, polish them, rewrite them,
and then use those to send out kind of as
your portfolio so absolutely, definitely more than one. Definitely one
TV pilot, one spec pilot for something currently on air
(31:33):
in any form like network, premium, cable or streaming.
Speaker 4 (31:37):
And then a really strong original feature that you've written.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
And also Whitney I think we I should probably mention too,
and maybe I should have asked you this question before,
but you know, there would you briefly just describe, you know,
the difference between a manager and an agent, because you know,
I sometimes think writers, you know, they always have an
obsession about getting an agent when really it should probably
get a manager.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
Correct.
Speaker 5 (31:59):
Absolutely, So for those of you listening, if you want,
you can go to my website, I actually just did
a four part series on representation, one on one explaining
all of this.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
But to really do a short recap.
Speaker 5 (32:11):
So, an agent is licensed by the state to negotiate
and execute the sale of your work. So they come
in whin their business to be done, so they are
the ones to do that, and they usually take ten percent,
and so they really don't do They may read your scripts,
but they aren't they don't have the time and aren't
(32:31):
going to take the time to read it, give notes
all of that. Agents generally tend to have anywhere from
thirty to fifty clients on their roster depending on where
they are in the life of their kind of career,
so they can take on a lot more people because
they literally are just doing the business side. The one
(32:52):
thing also you need to know is the agents are
not legally allowed to produce anything. Their only job is
executing and negotiating the contract for the sale. On the
flip side, the manager is not allowed to quote.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
Unquote procure.
Speaker 5 (33:11):
Employment for their client. They're not allowed to like quote
unquote get you a job like doing anything per se.
But they can help you sell individual scripts, but they
cannot like be the ones. Again, that's the agent role.
So what the manager does is the manager really is
(33:32):
all about developing your career. They are the ones that
usually go about helping you network and get meetings like
I just had a meeting with HBO and Hallmark a
few weeks ago, and Netflix is up on the thing.
They're the ones who are going to really organize and
schedule those meetings for you and get you in the
(33:54):
door a lot of times.
Speaker 4 (33:56):
Now. What's different though, is a manager can produce.
Speaker 5 (33:59):
Which in some senses is good because your manager is
way more invested in that sense, so they also take
ten percent of whatever happened generally because they're the ones
doing the heavy listing in the footwork of like helping
you develop your concepts and reading and giving you notes
and like really involved in the day to day. So yes,
(34:22):
at the beginning of your career, if you can snag
a manager like that's probably one of the best things
you can do. And a lot of people don't even
have agents. They can in lieu of an agents, they
can just use an entertainment lawyer, which is just the
same an entertainment attorney, which is just the same thing.
But what great was an agent? I'll say this caveat
which great was an Asian. If you have an agent
(34:42):
at CIA or one of the bigger firms, what's great
is if they have someone else in their agency, like
actresses and directors and all that. The great thing is
they can package you know, material and that will help.
So it's like if you have your script, but then
they have actresses ab and fee at their firm that
are wanting to attach, and then they also have this
(35:04):
director and then they can take it as one bid package.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
That definitely you know, incentivizes the.
Speaker 5 (35:11):
Sale So those are the two big things. Agents license
by the state, negotiate, execute the contracts. Manager is not
allowed to do that, but they can produce, and they're
the day to day development, getting you meetings, helping you network,
helping you brand yourself, helping you write, just kind of
grooming you for your career.
Speaker 4 (35:33):
So that's the short explanation. I hope that helps.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Yeah, that helped a lot, you know, and that's great information,
especially about packaging too. You know that that's something also
I hear, you know, people will always will always talk
about that, and you know, I think a lot of
times people sort of misconstrued that, and I think it's
almost like the whole age thing.
Speaker 5 (35:57):
Yeah, and it can happen on the management side. I mean,
I guess it's at your management for it, but it's
I feel like, I hope that's right, and I'm kind
of second guessing myself. I've heard it happening more on
the agency sides. In the management side, the same package,
but probably someone's gonna like write in and say I'm wrong,
So who knows. I'll put that at the caveat that
(36:17):
I'm not exactly sure, but it's in my brain at
the moment. That's what it's telling me, but may be wrong,
so sorry, if that's wrong information, I'll have to check.
But I'm pretty sure it's more on the agency side
than the management side.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
Did they do that?
Speaker 3 (36:31):
If anybody writes in, I'll just say it to you, Wedney.
I'll be like, listen, Whitney, this guys, this is rank people.
Speaker 4 (36:36):
I'll buy you a coffee. I mean, I don't know
what to say.
Speaker 5 (36:39):
So so yeah, so that's the differences between agents and managers.
So yeah, I think management that's just spot.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
I mean, I love it. I just see.
Speaker 5 (36:48):
I just love being a part of the It's a sickness,
really loving. I'll loving to be a part of the
process so much. People are like every day it's so funny.
I'm just like, why do I do this? Then, like
when like a breakthrough happens, I'm like, yes, this is
the best. I mean, it's just like it's it's such
a crazy, crazy, crazy existence.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
So yeah, it's like the plateaus and the hills, you
know what I mean, it's like the the highest of
highs and lows.
Speaker 5 (37:14):
W Wait, but the thing is, you know, and that's
why you know, I guess some of people could look
on it as being shady, even though I don't think
it's shady. Be'st I haven't given up the consulting side
of my business.
Speaker 4 (37:25):
Can you.
Speaker 5 (37:26):
People come to me and they're like, I want to
be managed. I know that they're just not there yet,
So I offer consulting services. And I always say, you know,
if you don't want to stay with me, because you know,
you think that's odd. Like I'm totally willing to, you know,
send people to several of my different colleagues.
Speaker 4 (37:42):
But like, the.
Speaker 5 (37:43):
Consulting side is just that I love so much too,
because I love the people that are that need the
expertise of an industry x you know, you know, an
industry like expert or whatever, and I love being that
person to help teach them and all that. So it's
kind of a it's kind of a crazy, crazy thing
I love doing THO have so I feel like I
(38:04):
can get away with it because my management, you know,
Collector is so small at the moment that I still
can help the people that are the up and coming
aspiring writers.
Speaker 4 (38:15):
So I really I really still enjoy doing that so
much too.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Yeah, I can tell you know you really enjoy doing it,
and I mean, you know, it's it's needed. You know,
you have to have people that really enjoy this actually
out there doing it. And you know, I love it.
Speaker 5 (38:33):
I love it so much, and I think some people
get really jaded and it gets tiresome. I just I
just find it all so fascinating, like the way that
the human mind works and the things that people can
come up with.
Speaker 4 (38:44):
I'm just like, I mean, I just like visibly.
Speaker 5 (38:47):
Like I mean, Peo will laugh at me because my
face just lies up.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
I'm like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 5 (38:51):
I'm just I'm like, even now, I'm thinking of some
of the stuff that some of my consulting clients are
pitching at Austin, and I'm just like, I cannot wait
for them to pitch it because I just get so
excited for them because the ideas are so freaking, you know, amazing.
Speaker 4 (39:03):
So we'll just we'll just see it's this sun exciting world.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
I actually have a few of the questions I I'm
going to try to answer or I've started trying to
ask these last two. So uh, Whitney other. This is
by Joe's screenwriter, and Joe asked, what are some of
your thoughts on the query letter? As a Hollywood outsider
was your contact? It seems like my only shot.
Speaker 5 (39:27):
Yeah, and so I feel like I kind of address
this a little bit earlier, but I'll expand on it.
So the query is a really test thing. Like to him,
I would specifically say, if you're a Hollywood outsider and
you don't live in LA, I would really just make
sure there is a process to the query. So I
would make sure and there's like an actual format to
a query letter for film and TV. So I would
(39:50):
look up or buy a book on how to specifically
query your book or your film or your TV show.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
We'll be right back after word from our sponsor and
now back to the show.
Speaker 5 (40:08):
Second, if there's a specific place that you know that
you want to send it, like, I would research those
agencies or those firms and check their submission requirements because
oftentimes certain places are closed to unsolicited queries and it's
referral only, so you need to check and make sure
(40:28):
that they're open to unsolicited queries. And yeah, for someone
who doesn't live in LA, that may be your only shot.
But like I said, it is not super expensive to
get to LA these days. I feel like, and it's
just like if you can save up and come to
one event or one kind of industry saying it Kim,
(40:49):
and again I would probably say Great American Pitchfest. Something
like that is like one of the best things that
you can invest in because you can get in front
of like a hundred managed companies and producers who you
can pitch to, and you know, it's just it can change,
It can change your life. Like honestly, so in terms
(41:11):
of a query, there's nothing wrong with him. I take
unsolicited queries you can submit soon in my website. I
know that a few others take unsolicited queries, like maybe
Circle of Confusion. But you know, the other thing I
would do to honestly for a person like that is
reach out to people on Twitter and ask if they
have managers or agents and like if you can get
(41:32):
a referral, like if you can send it to a
This is another way in which is a good point.
If you can find another writer who's currently represented and
you send them there your query first and have them
look get over and if they like it, they may
be willing to pass it on to their agent or manager.
And that's the way that it's not unsolicited anymore. So
you feel like you have to find these backdoor ways
(41:52):
in So if he can find someone on Twitter or
Facebook or LinkedIn that's currently a writer and currently reps, like.
Speaker 4 (41:59):
That might be a great way to go to if
he can't get to LA.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
You know, that's a great point, Whitney. You know, Twitter
is a phenomenal tool and I use it all the time.
I've always talked about the great uses of Twitter because
almost everyone now is on Twitter.
Speaker 4 (42:13):
Oh, I mean, Twitter is absolutely amazing.
Speaker 5 (42:15):
Like it's crazy to me, like about how many people
I've met on Twitter, Like I've gotten.
Speaker 4 (42:20):
A few clients off of twit off of Twitter.
Speaker 5 (42:23):
I it is insane, And I think to the screenwriting world,
it really is the best social media platform for connecting
for sure.
Speaker 4 (42:31):
Is Twitter? Honestly, I think it's way I think it
is the top one, honestly.
Speaker 5 (42:35):
So that's what I would say, is like cold Query,
make sure that they take submissions, it's not come to
an event and if not signed another writer who is
repped and see if they'll look at your stuff and
check it out, or several of the last one. It's
several of the if you can afford to hire one
of the consultants, they all I mean we all know people,
(42:56):
and so if they come across something that's really amazing,
like they aren't, they will be willing to pass it
on as well.
Speaker 4 (43:02):
So I mean, I think.
Speaker 5 (43:03):
And the other thing is contests, Like if you enter
contests and you place in a contest, all those lists
go to agents and managers the people that place. So
that's another way to break in for sure, and so
that may be easier than quarying.
Speaker 4 (43:15):
Honestly, it's just.
Speaker 5 (43:17):
You know, applying for a you know, entering into one
of the many, many contests out there.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
Yeah, you know, that's something I've heard before too, is
they want to see what you're your writing can do
up against other people's writing. And you know, I've heard
that where they want to see, you know, hey, why
aren't they these people going in this competition? You know,
why aren't they you know, doing something, and why aren't
they going that route?
Speaker 4 (43:38):
So if we want to say that's good, that's another
good way.
Speaker 5 (43:40):
If you're not in Hollywood, because I know they takes
you know, they it doesn't matter where you live.
Speaker 4 (43:45):
You can always enter those contests for sure.
Speaker 3 (43:50):
Uh So, Witney, you know, we've been talking for about
you know, forty minutes now. So in closing, is there
anything that we do get a chance to discuss that
you may have wanted to or a sort of you know,
anything you wanted to say to put a pure Atdennis
whole conversation.
Speaker 4 (44:02):
No, I mean, I just I.
Speaker 5 (44:03):
Think that I want to tell people that truly, if
they set their minds out to do it, it's amazing
that if they just keep at it, keep meeting people,
keep writing, things can happen for you. The two things
I say, the two peees of writing or patience and persistence.
So I think it just really is a journey. And
(44:25):
if you're patient yet persistent and just keep at it,
you know, I truly believe things will happen for people.
And I think it really is half relationships, half who
you know, and half you know.
Speaker 4 (44:37):
Craft and how well you write.
Speaker 5 (44:39):
So I just always tell people always be nice to
everybody you know you meet, make an effort to be
friends with them beyond just wanting to sell you know,
sell them or pitch them your idea, and just continue
to really practice the craft the writing, and write because
you love it, not because you want to make money
off of it.
Speaker 4 (44:58):
I mean, I think and people you know.
Speaker 5 (45:01):
Can make money off of it, and that's the great
But it's just like right because you love.
Speaker 4 (45:04):
It and that's what you really want to do.
Speaker 5 (45:06):
And I think the money will come if you go
you know, look at it as a business and go
about the right way of approaching it.
Speaker 4 (45:12):
So those are just kind of my last few nuggets
of as ice and encouragement. Just keep at it.
Speaker 5 (45:19):
Just patience and persistence is the key, and being nice
to people and it'll all, you know, hopefully it's fall
into place.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
So yeah, I like that last part too. Be nice
to people because they're you know, even on Twitter, Whitney,
And I'm sure you get this all the time. I
get a lot of people who immediately follow me or
they'll send me an email to my website and right
away they're asking something from me like hey, Dave, can
you retweet this? Can you can you do this? I'm like,
I don't even know who you are. I don't even
know what the movie is, right, Like why don't you?
Speaker 4 (45:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (45:51):
And I'm telling you I And what I really appreciate
is even the writers that I know once Tony, but
they actually just like act me out for coffee and
like we go to and just get to know each
other before they make, you know, a certain ask or whatever.
Speaker 4 (46:04):
I mean, it really is about.
Speaker 5 (46:06):
Just getting to know other writers and building those relationships
and you know, just acknowledging their successes before you start
asking favors of them. I just think there's so much
power and acknowledging success just to be like days, you
like do a great job at podcasting, like thank you
(46:26):
so much for the for what you put out there
in the Twitter universe and social media at large, and
start that conversation that way, and then maybe after a
few days, like, you know, it's been so great talking
to you. I was just curious if you know, maybe
we could do X, Y and V together and like
have something to offer back to them, like if you like,
I said, like, if you're gonna offer to like reach
you know, ask somebody to do this, be like, hey,
(46:48):
in return, I'm more than happy to do X, Y
and Z for you in the future, like see if
you can barter or something like that makes it a lot,
a lot, a lot more acceptable to me that people
would be willing as they know that you're also willing
to give on your end. So I think it's definitely
a give and take and the writing community is such
a great place. I just love it so much. So,
(47:09):
I mean that's what I always say. Be nice to people.
The first rule of everything. It will it will come
back around in a great, great way if you can
do that.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
You know that that's excellent advice. Whitney, Whitney, where can
you will find you online and they.
Speaker 5 (47:25):
Can find me at Whitney Davisliterary dot com and then
they can sign me across all social media at W
davisliterary dot com.
Speaker 4 (47:34):
I mean well at W. Davis Literary.
Speaker 5 (47:36):
Yeah, the handle on Twitter, he's booking, LinkedIn and everywhere else.
Speaker 3 (47:41):
I guess yeah, and everyone. I'm going to link to
that in the show notes. Whitney Davis, I want to
say thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
Speaker 4 (47:49):
He thank you for having me. It was an absolute blast.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
Oh I'm glad you had fun because this is your
first podcast. I'm glahead you know you had fun on it. Yes,
it was my thank you, Oh anytime. Best of luck, Whitney.
And you know, if you ever want to come back
on the show, please just let me know. I mean
more than happy to have you back on.
Speaker 4 (48:08):
I would love it.
Speaker 5 (48:09):
We'll have to figure something else to talk something else
to talk about, but for.
Speaker 3 (48:13):
Sure, Oh, there's so much we could talk about it.
Speaker 4 (48:16):
We just doe networking. I love talking about networking for writers.
It's like one of my favorites. We should do that.
Speaker 3 (48:23):
Oh that sounds good because I usually get asked about
how I how I network and when I go on
other people's podcasts.
Speaker 4 (48:28):
So we should do it. It'll be fun.
Speaker 3 (48:31):
Yeah, we could do like a dual networking thab be
pretty cool.
Speaker 4 (48:34):
Let's do it.
Speaker 3 (48:35):
I'm down, Whitney, thanks so much. Okay, thank you eighty time,
take care, bye bye.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
a great job on this episode. If you want to
get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
head over to the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot
tv for it. Slash four thirty eight, thank you so
much for listening, guys, As always, keep on writing no
matter what. I'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproof
Screenwriting dot tv.
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