BPS 440: Crafting Authentic Stories from Lady Gaga to Sci-Fi Futures with Kim Ray

On today's episode, we welcome the multi-talented Kim Ray, a writer, producer, and director whose career spans reality TV, documentaries, and scripted projects. Best known for her work on the Netflix documentary Gaga: Five Foot Two, Kim’s journey through the industry is an inspiring tale of creativity, resilience, and innovation.Our conversation begins with Kim’s fascinating experience co-writing West Bank Story, a parody of West Side Story that cleverly blended humor with themes of peace and cultural commonality. As Kim describes, “It was about showing that even in a world full of conflict, there’s so much that connects us.” The project, which gained significant recognition, was a testament to her ability to merge art with meaningful messages.Kim’s transition into reality television was both unexpected and transformative. While it wasn’t her original focus, she brought her narrative expertise to shows like The X Factor and Kendra on Top. “Reality TV,” Kim explains, “requires storytelling that’s just as nuanced as scripted work. You’re shaping real moments into something cohesive and engaging.” Her work on these projects highlights her adaptability and deep understanding of human emotion.

One of the standout points in Kim’s career was producing Gaga: Five Foot Two. The project offered an intimate glimpse into Lady Gaga’s life, showcasing her vulnerabilities and strength. Kim recounts the challenges of crafting such an unfiltered narrative, saying, “The magic was in the authenticity. Gaga was raw and real, and we wanted viewers to feel like they were walking alongside her.” The minimal crew and close collaboration created an unparalleled connection between the subject and the audience.Beyond her professional achievements, Kim’s insights into the industry’s evolution are enlightening. She speaks candidly about the systemic challenges women face in Hollywood, sharing how she navigated a landscape often dominated by male voices. Her reflections on the #MeToo movement underscore the importance of platforms like social media for amplifying marginalized voices. “It’s a double-edged sword,” Kim notes, “but it’s also a powerful tool for change.”Kim’s current project, Violet’s New Life, delves into the futuristic concept of consciousness transfer. The short film and pilot explore what it means to live again in a synthetic body, blending technology and human emotion. As Kim puts it, “It’s not just about immortality—it’s about the psychology of starting over, carrying the weight of one life into another.”


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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number four forty.
Your dream doesn't have an expiration date, Take a deep
breath and try again. KT Whitten broadcasting from a dark,
windowless room in Hollywood.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
When we really should be working on that next draft.
It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and
business of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your
screenplay bulletproof. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
I am your humble host Alex Ferrari.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
Now, today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof Script Coverage.

Speaker 4 (00:50):
Now.

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Unlike other script coverage services, Bulletproof Script Coverage actually focuses
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(01:12):
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(01:34):
Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.

Speaker 3 (01:39):
My guest is a writer, producer, and director. She has
produced reality TV shows such as MTV's Made. She's been
producer on The X Factor. She's been a producer for
Kendra on Top, which is currently on at sixth season
on we TV, and her current produced project stars a
little known singer named Lady Gaga. You may have heard
of her in the documentary Gaga five Foot two, which

(02:02):
is on Netflix right now, which follows Gaga round as
she prepares for her Super Bowl halftime show and just
gives you a sneak peg in her life in general.
With guests Kim Ray, you know, we actually met on Twitter,
and I usually meet a lot of people through Twitter
because you produced the new Netflix special Gaga five Foot two,

(02:22):
and you know we got to talking, and I looked
up your IMDb and I'm actually familiar with a lot
of your work. Actually, it was actually funny enough, starting
with West Bank Story. I actually remember seeing that years ago,
and when I saw that was one of the things
that you produced, I was like, Wow, what a small world. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:41):
I co wrote it. Yeah, I wrote it with Ari
the director. We were in grad school together at the
time at USC, and we had kind of become besties,
and we started an organization at USC for the grads
production students called the Entertainment Industry Network because when we
both got there, we started the same semester for the

(03:02):
directing program at USC the production program, and there was
no there wasn't a lot of interaction with the other programs,
with the writing program or the producing program, or even
with Hollywood. So we started this organization and kind of
mixed everybody up and got everybody going, you know, working
together on different projects so that you know, people from

(03:24):
the producers uh I was with the Peter Stark producing
program would get with the writers and they bring directors
projects and so it was really successful. And then when
it came time for us to do our thesis films,
I wrote mine and obviously was directing it, and but
I needed an assistant director. I really needed somebody to
run the set. And I was like, you have to

(03:45):
be my id, you have no choice. And he's like, well,
help me write my thesis film. He's like, I got nothing.
He's like, I just have an idea. It's called west
Bank Story and maybe it's like a bank in the
in the valley, you know, but it's kind of still
like you know, West Side Story within Israeli, but within
Israeli and a Palestinian and we just kind of went

(04:08):
from there and I was like all right, and we
just you know, developed and developed. And then one day
and I have never been to Israel and his father,
our's dad is Israeli, so he had been, and I
was like, well, explain it to me, Like what is it, like,
you know, what do they have in common? You know?
And he's like, well, they really just have the food
in common. And you know, for sure, not just but

(04:30):
that's one of the things they have in common, is
the food. And we started talking about and I just
remembered like all of the McDonald's and Burger King wars
when I was a kid, and like peptine and coke
and all that stuff. I was like, well, what if
it's competing philoscial stands in the West Bank And he
was like, well, that would never happen because there's check

(04:51):
point you know, they're they're not like you can't It's
not like you just walked from one side to the other,
you know. I said, well, what if it was at
a checkpoint? Like He's like, no, that would never happen.
I was like, well, but let's take some creative license here,
maybe it could happen. And we just both It was
ended up being funny, and at one point we had
like Fatima, you know, have a backpack on, like maybe

(05:11):
she's a suit side by the Obviously that wasn't funny
and that was we cut that. But you know, we're
just going through ideas of what could be funny and
how it could be a comedy musical. And I had
actually been in a band in college and written a
lot of songs and a lot of poetry, and so
when we finished the script, Arii was like, well, we
have to find a composer, you know, we have to

(05:32):
find somebody to write all the songs. And I was like, well,
why don't we take a stab and he's like, I
don't know anything about writing songs. And I was like, well,
I wasn't a band. Maybe, you know, maybe I could
do writing music. Have you ever written any songs or poetry?

Speaker 3 (05:45):
No? No, but believe me, kim note, nobody wants to
see me sing either.

Speaker 4 (05:49):
So all right, well it's you know, it's it's kind
of embarrassing, right, Like when you write a song or
a poem and you can write it, it's not embarrassing.
It's like, you know, you're putting your emotions on paper,
but as soon as you say it out loud or
you sing it, it's kind of like there's a there's
a certain it's you're being very vulnerable, you know, to

(06:12):
whoever's listening. You're it's a very you're in a very
vulnerable moment because you're sharing with them something that you
felt emotionally or you know, that you put on paper
and now it's coming out in this kind of in
this this emotional way. And so I took a stab
at writing one of the songs. In fact, I wrote
the love the Love song first, the lyrics, and I

(06:33):
sent it to Ari like you might hate this is
my view, horrible blah blah blah, and I just remember
like waiting to hear back because I emailed it over
and we were really good friends. That wasn't like I
was embarrassed to him, but I still it was just like,
you know, I had been this this emotional kind of
love song, and it took him a while to get
back to me, which was probably like five hours, you know,

(06:55):
but still it felt like an eternity. And then he
was like, okay, I gave it to my mom. And
Ari is very much like he was in a fraternity
in some ways, he's kind of like a dude. And
he was like, okay, well give it to my mom,
and my mom really liked it. Sounds really good. I think,
let's just try to write the songs. And this is ash.
We had gotten to so many composers, and I kept
telling him because all the composers we met with they

(07:16):
were good composers, but I just didn't think they'd be
good lyricist, but they would write the right songs. And
I felt, as the writers, we really needed to write them,
and so and so we did and it was a
really rewarding experience making that and writing it and yeah,

(07:36):
and then you know, seeing it come to Fruition. Was
it was a really great It was a really great experience. So, yeah,
music has always been a big part of my life,
so you know that that film is kind of just
an extension of that.

Speaker 3 (07:55):
So when you were putting this all together and you
finally were able to make it and was able to
view it, did did they finally understand the idea behind
the competing flaffel stands?

Speaker 4 (08:07):
Yeah, they did, they did. And it was fun casting
it too, because you know, on the Israeli side, we
had more freedom because we could cast you know, people
who were supposed to be Russian or you know, like
people from all over you know that go who are
Jewish who go to Israel to live there. You know.
So yeah, it was it was actually, it was a

(08:29):
lot of fun making it and casting it, and yeah,
and seeing it, having people see it. It was scary
at first because you know, you really hope that people
aren't offended and that people get it and they understand
that it's a peaceful you know, it's a message of
peace and hope and we're all alike, and why do
we have to have these wars and why do we
have to have so much hatred and so yeah, there

(08:53):
was a little bit of fear at first, but then
everybody kind of embraced it. And this day, like anytime
I made a Palestinian they've seen the movie, so random
or a lot of Israeli, yeah, or Israeli they've seen
the movie. So it was shown a lot over there,
and Ari went over there a lot with it, and yeah,
it was a popular short film, especially in the Middle

(09:13):
East of parents.

Speaker 3 (09:15):
And that's awesome, by the way, because I was actually
going to ask you about the reception of like how
they actually responded to it, because you know, you know, nowadays,
whenever somebody makes anything, I mean and look, you just
touched on you know there, you did fear for a
little for even a split second. You know, how are
people going to respond to this? Is there going to
be some bad backlash? Is there even going to be
any backlash? You know, as you sort of because that

(09:40):
was like two thousand and four, two thousand and five,
as we go forward to today, you know, I do
you think things are are more sensitive now? In terms
of if you were trying, like, let's just say, Kim,
you were trying to make the West Bank story right now,
do you think that you'd have a lot more backlash.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
and now back to the show.

Speaker 4 (10:08):
That's a good question. I don't know. I mean, there's
still not peace in the Middle East, you know what
I mean, So, uh, you know, maybe maybe not. I
think I think people are always looking for a positive message.
I really believe that, you know, and I think everybody,
everybody kind of does. I mean one of the first,

(10:30):
you know, even like internet stuff. It's like, you know,
you want to keep your message inspirational, what people say
about when you're trying to market yourself or whatever. I
think I think people who are who have a positive
message or kind of beacons in in the world wind
right now because we are so divided and there's so

(10:51):
much you know, anger and frustration and you know, starting
with you know, our president. It's I don't know, I
think it would be I think it'd be received just
as well today.

Speaker 3 (11:05):
Actually, yeah, you know, it's funny because it's Halloween. We're
recording this on Halloween, and I said to somebody today
they said, oh, Dave, I didn't dress up. And I said, well,
you can be a millennial and just be offended at everything. Uh,
but you know, it was it was a funny joke,
you know, because I mean I'm a millennial too. It's
just it's it's just you know, it was just funny though.
And but but uh, you know, I just you know,

(11:28):
when when we look out in the country today and
even you know, and it's amazing, Kim, how fast everything
has sort of changed, not only in film, but you
know in the in the world. You know, cell phones
are are so fast. And and what I'm going with
this is, you know, everyone sort of knows news as
it happens. You know, as soon as something happens, you
get a notification on Twitter or what have you, and

(11:49):
it's you know, we become almost innundated with this, and uh,
you know, and that's why I think sometimes people get
a little more sensitive about things because it seems like
that's all it's happening, if that's all you're looking for,
do you know you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (12:02):
Yeah, no, I do. I Actually, you know, I was
a huge fan of Hillary Clinton. I'm I followed her
since I was in college and you know, read all
of her speeches and really, you know, I'm the type
of first I'd go down the rabbit hole. You know,
I do all the research. I you know, I really
want to know who she was years ago, and really

(12:25):
followed the campaign really closely. And a friend of mine
is a PhD in what he's getting his PhD a
UCLA for. I want to say it's called information system,
but I can be completely religning that. Basically he studies
the Internet and and he's also a journalist for in Denmark.
He lives here in Los Angeles, and you know, so

(12:49):
I was really aware from him and also from a
project that I did with Christ mccarvel. He's the director
of the Gaga film. I did what we were we
did kind of like a pilot first show, uh that
that was about Internet culture and just various things about

(13:10):
about the Internet. And the pilot that we did was
about Russian trolls and Russian troll farms and what in
particular they had tried to start this emergency situation in
a small town Louisiana, and so we kind of followed
that story. And then throughout the election, my friend was

(13:30):
you know, alerting me to all the Russian ads that were,
you know, how Russians were meddling in the election, especially
in Wisconsin and Michigan and what was happening there, and
so I got really addicted in the news, you know,
I mean, if I hadn't already been, it was really
addicuous news and just hyper inflamed by everything I read,

(13:52):
you know, especially you know, if it was coming from
you know, the Trump camp or whatever. And but once, once,
once the election happened, I really I just kind of stopped.
And because what happened was this thing that had never
happened before, and there have been studies done on this
and things written about it. You can look it up.

(14:15):
I started, I have you know, I have a I
have the Apple Aggregator for news on my phone like
everybody within my phone or whatever program they use that
aggregates the news from all my favorite sources. So you know,
I do New York Times, Wired, Magazine, CNN, you know,
you name it. And all of a sudden, the word
Trump started showing up, like every single article Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump.

(14:40):
And I had never you know, we're all addicted to
the news, but I had never seen one name cover
all of my news feeds before. And and again it
was a phenomena, right, like, again, this is something that's
been studied. He the amount of news coverage that he's

(15:02):
gotten since pretty much right before the election and post
the election goes beyond the pale. I mean, it supersedes
any other figure who's ever been covered by the news.
And it's been sustained, you know, obviously in part because
of the egregious things that he said done, the lives

(15:26):
that he's told, blah blah blah blah, on and on.
It's all newsworthy. But I just kind of, you know,
wrapped my head around that was like, I'm kind of
peace outing the news as much as I can. And
because I was so angry, I was angry on my
social media fee. I was angry, and I just something
just snaps at me, and I was just like, it's

(15:47):
the world isn't going to change if I whether or
not I read every single news article, you know what
I mean, Like, it's not I'm you know, I grew
up in an era of newspapers where you read the
newspaper pretty much when I leave in New York especially,
I just read it on Sunday, get the New York
Times on Sunday and it so it wasn't so hard

(16:08):
for me to kind of turn it off or not.
I don't think I needed it, but I think I
definitely turned it down, way down, because it's just not
life is too short of my lawn.

Speaker 3 (16:20):
Response to that, I agree, you know, it's I stopped.
You know, Facebook to me was was like was my
version of your Apple aggregator on your iPhone. I would
log onto Facebook and I made a very stupid mistake, Kim.
I would log on Facebook first thing in the morning
when I woke up.

Speaker 4 (16:39):
No, same same thanks, because you're laying in bed, right
and you're waking up, and the first thing you do
is you go to your phone. Yeah, no, I'm with you,
uh huh and with you.

Speaker 3 (16:48):
It's It's all it was was bad news on top
of bad news on top of more like terrible news,
and I go, why am I subjecting myself to this? Like,
you know, you know, for you know, what could I
do about North Korea? You know, what can I do
about this or that or the other thing? And I
started to realize, you know, the less I was on Facebook,

(17:10):
the better, and Twitter I can control a lot more.
And Facebook, it's just like it was so finally I
just stopped it all together, and you know what, Kim might,
Gradually I got happier again. I stopped having to worry
about this stuff, because I mean, at the end of
the day, you're just gonna say, if it's happens, it happens,
and there's nothing that you know, we could do about it,
so you stop really worrying about it. I mean, I

(17:31):
have a friend of mine who goes on Facebook, and
he used to do a lot of movie stuff, and
all of a sudden, he just he's like obsessed now
with like going on Facebook and like seeing all this
news and posting all this and he he's guilty to
a posting fake news. And I'm like, you know, what
is that going to do for you? At the end
of the day, you posted a news article that is
most likely not true. What is that going to do

(17:54):
for you? You know, It's just I don't see what
the point of that is.

Speaker 4 (17:57):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's one thing to be
intelligently informed and to check different sources. It's something interests
you or disturbs you. It's just another thing to like
you say, you know, be pouring through Facebook every morning
and then pouring through the news and spending an hour

(18:18):
going through all this stuff. For several hours a day,
It's just it's too much. On the flip side, I
have to say, the good thing about the Internet and
this dissemination of information has been you know, all of
the sexual harassment stories coming out over the last year,

(18:39):
especially you know the most recent Weinstein story, because these
women had no place to go before. They couldn't go
to human resources, they couldn't go to their boss, they
couldn't go anywhere. And now they can go to the Internet.
And even if it's just like, hey, this happened to
me and the other person's like, hey, it's happened to

(19:01):
me too, Even if it's two people, it's powerful. But
when it becomes thirty forty, fifty sixty people women who
are like, hey, this happened to me, it all and
then you start seeing how all the stories are eerily similar.
That's when I think that's when social media and the
dissemination of data become important. And in the entertainment industry

(19:24):
it's also I came at USC in two thousand and five,
and I had an agent at UTA, an agent and
manager and a lawyer, and I was doing really well
in the beginning of my career. But and I write
big budget sci fi action, primarily that's what I write,
and that's what I'm interested in. And I had all
these various projects, you know, semi development or almost sold

(19:49):
or whatever, but I just I wasn't stealing the deal.
And it was really fruscating because I would walk in,
you know, to these producers' offices.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show, and.

Speaker 4 (20:08):
I just and they were all men. I never, I
think once or twice I ever met with a woman,
but you know, all these executives and producers, and it
was never I was never like feeling the deal. And
I really, you know, I like to think of myself
as good in a room. I like to think of
myselfself as personable. I like to think of myself as
a good writer, as a good you know, filmmaker in general.

(20:32):
But I just it wasn't happening, and I got you know,
I was getting really down on it. And that's kind
of actually. You know, the film industry obviously was changing,
right this is before Netflix was doing their own content
and studios were only putting out like eight movies a year.
Like the film industry was was changing, that's undeniable. But

(20:54):
a few years ago, data started coming out and statistics
started coming out out for those years in terms of
how many women writers were getting hired to write feature films,
how many women writers were selling spec scripts, how many
women writers were getting hired for writing rooms, how many

(21:16):
scripts were selling that had female protagonists, And the numbers
didn't lie. The numbers. Excusing the numbers reflected my personal experience,
which was that the doors, the door to entry was
shut and very few women were getting through. And it actually,

(21:43):
in some ways it was profoundly depressing, but in other
ways it was profoundly encouraging because I stopped blaming myself,
you know, I stopped thinking, oh, it's just because you
weren't talented enough, or you weren't you know, enough of
sales person to sell your idea, or you know, you
couldn't communicate, you know, what your pitch was, or your

(22:06):
concept or this or that it was. It was because
there was a bias, whether it was conscious, unconscious, whatever
it was, there was a bias against women. And there
still is. You know, I think the stories of the
Harvey Weinstein whatever whatever, that's the most horrific example, right,
But then you look at all the microaggressions and the

(22:30):
microaggressions exist in the data that show how many female directors.
And I was just going up for a lot of
writing stuff, forget directing. And my degree from USC my
MFA is in dress directing. My undergrad from University of
Michigan is in film. And I still like I didn't
even I wasn't even trying that hard to direct. I mean,
I actually ended up getting a job. I was working

(22:52):
as a commercial director for production company Advertising Company for
three years, which was great while going out out and
trying to sell you know, bigger projects, but it's you know,
I think, you know, there's I guess My point is
that there's good and bad in the dissemination of news

(23:13):
and social media and all that stuff. And it's like,
you know, it keeps us aware, but it can also
be like you say, debilitating, So it has its It
definitely has an upside and then it also has a downside,
you know, Like I know, looking at all the hashtag
me too over the last few weeks has been completely depressing,

(23:34):
but also one hundred percent you know, it needed to
be seen, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (23:43):
Yeah, and I do, do you know what you mean? Cam?
You know, I think also You're right. That is a
good you know, a a benefit of social media is
that you can you can not only share this news
out like again, Harvey Weinstein, how that whole thing broke
And basically, if it wasn't for social media being as
strong as it was, you know, would we be able

(24:04):
to get it out there? Would he even be facing charges?
You know, if it wasn't as strong, social media wasn't
as strong as it was. You know, I actually had
Kasian it was I'm sure I just puted his last
name again on the podcast. I don't know if you
know Kasian, but Kasian is the producer Dallas Buyers Club,
the New Sun Dance, Hits mud a mud Bound excuse me,
and he actually our whole episode. We talked a lot

(24:27):
about this about he looked at all the numbers of
like you know, director of film product projects and you know,
directed and written by women, and the number was like
seven percent, I think he said. And he actually actually
that that that's like his whole thing now is making
more opportunities for for women because he wants to actually
improve those numbers. And that's all. So, by the way,

(24:47):
if you if you're interested, I'm just gonna sorry. Not
to segue, but I'm just gonna say I was gonna
say that the whole episode that actually just aired right
now on Halloween. That's all it is is is it's
all we talk a lot about that. He's actually launched.
He actually helped launch uh the Horizon Award, which sends
to film uh two filmmakers, two women filmmakers, to sun Dance.

(25:10):
I mean, it's just you know this guy, Yeah, I mean, seriously, man.

Speaker 4 (25:15):
Good for him, because you know what, at the end
of the day, it's like all these women are out
there trying to like, you know, trying to say, oh,
we're going to hire our women. But at the end
of the day, man are is still in charge. So
they're the ones who have to do what he's doing,
you know, not that they're one hundred percent still in charge.
It's changing. But if you're going to really change a
power dynamic, obviously those in power have to you know,

(25:36):
put forth some kind of effort. And people really, I
think people really want to do that, right, you really
want to give away the keys of the kingdomn But
good on him, and he's like, you know, doing that,
that's awesome.

Speaker 3 (25:50):
Yeah, yeah, great guy. By the way, and I will. Yeah,
by the way, I'll give you guys a Twitter intro.
I think you're you're really like that, no serious Twitter
is I'm telling you, Kim, Twitter is one of the
best networking tools around and it's free, you know. I mean, look,
we've met over TWI yeah.

Speaker 4 (26:07):
Yeah, no, that's a really good point.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (26:10):
So, you know, just to continue with your with your career, Kim.
I see you did The X Factor, by the way,
which I know you you music has always been a
huge part of your life. So I see you did
The X Factor in twenty twelve, and I wanted to ask,
you know, how did you, you know, get into producing
The X Factor.

Speaker 4 (26:29):
I had worked with one of the showrunners for The
X Factor on another project, and she got on X
Factor and she's like, we need we need people like
you who can who can write, you know, who can
do story. Because initially they were going to try they
were trying to kind of revamp the show a little

(26:49):
bit so that there would be the packages on the
people who were competing and who were auditioning would be
a little more beefed up. And because honestly, in so
many ways, like that's that's the heart of the show, right,
are these people who have these dream of being a
musician and they're just and you see, you know, you

(27:11):
look into their lives and you see like how hard
they've been trying to do this and for how long
And a lot of them, you know, started as children
and have you know, gone to Nashville or la or
you know, New York and you know, really sung those
little hearts out. You know, I really tried musicians. So
being on the show was such a huge deal for them.

(27:32):
So they brought me on to to put together the
packages on those people. Primarily I managed other things, but
with the talent, with Britney Spears and whatever, but that
was my main thing. And yeah, it was. It was
really heartwarming actually, and the show is the show was
a machine. I mean it was I don't I don't

(27:56):
even know how many editors were working on that show.
I want to say twenty big show. It's a really
big show. So yeah, it was. It was an interesting experience.

Speaker 3 (28:06):
Yeah, I was gonna say, there there must be like
a million people that show. Uh. It came out like
a bullet too, because you know, all of a sudden,
it was like every uh, every time I turned around,
I saw something about The X Factor. I saw, uh
you know, like a commercial for it, a billboard for it.
Uh you know, I saw ads on Facebook. I mean
that that that show had so much going behind it

(28:26):
just in marketing. Uh you know what I mean. Like
that's why I'm always like the shows like that, And
it's it's an indicator too, because something has that much
money in it has to be, you know, what, the
what the network wanted, you know what I mean, it
has to be something that they view they feel is
a is a viable product. So I mean, so it
is producing for for like live TV like that X

(28:46):
I know you also after that, you've done a couple
other of TV series like Kendra on Top and Good
Food America. So when when you're producing like live TV,
you know, was that any adjustment or any for for
you of any kind because you know it's there really
is no takebacks or edits, so to speak.

Speaker 4 (29:05):
Yeah, I mean, on for the live portion of Ascager,
so there was a live portion, and there was all
the stuff that we did beforehand, and so but the
live portion there's like a thirty second or minute delay.
So everybody, you know, everybody again being a fine you know,
finally owned machine. Everybody has all of their kind of

(29:29):
all of their their roles that they play, and the
show wasn't always lied because sometimes I'm trying to think, yeah,
it wasn't all Oh, I'm thinking of the auditions, okay,
because I'm just trying to think, cause we had to
cut together. At one point, we literally cut together for
the audition part, which was you know, the kind of
like the not live part. Reaction shots for Britney Spears

(29:52):
and Simon and I'm playing here on her name.

Speaker 1 (29:58):
We'll be right back after a whord from our sponsor
and now back to the show, Paula that.

Speaker 4 (30:08):
We would reuse. That we would reuse over and over
again because we didn't have enough reactions, but we're good,
you know, so we'd end up reusing their reactions, which
is really funny. But for the live shows, yeah, there
was a slight delay. It was a CBS studios and
it was very you know, it was very choreographed, like

(30:28):
everybody knew, you know, exactly what what they were doing,
and you know, there were there were honestly, there were
some surprises, but kind of very few surprises.

Speaker 3 (30:40):
So so basically when you when you go through like yeah,
working inside of uh The X Factor. When you got out,
when you I'm sorry, make it seel like you're in jail.
I'm sorry, let me rephrase that question.

Speaker 4 (30:52):
We got jail really well. I mean, you know, like
I said, reality in doc TV was never my focus.
It just it just kind of happened because it was
I was having a really hard time getting into script
getting getting directing, you know, getting directing work, and getting
hired as a writer. So it was and it came
really easy, you know, it was you know, it was

(31:15):
just it was just very easy for me to do.
It was like riding a bike. It was not difficult.

Speaker 3 (31:21):
But go ahead, before I I I was, I was, uh,
you know, uh, making it seem like you were in jail.
So after you, you know, you were you got done
producing The X Factor and you went into producing Kendron
Top and uh, you know, also Good Food America and
Sex On. So when you were producing these are all episodics,

(31:43):
did you sort of see Kim like how things were
sort of progressing in terms of, you know, all the
top talented people were moving you know, out of out
of the film industry and now, as they say, all
the all the top talented people are working in a
TV industry.

Speaker 4 (31:58):
Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, I I know people.
I have a friend who went to Princeton undergrad and
went to USC grad for screenwriting and is now one
of the executive producers on vander Pump Rules, Like you know,
but he's one of the reasons I have no doubt

(32:18):
that the show is successful because he's a brilliant, talented person,
you know, And that even though these shows are not
you know, a House of Cards, there's still they require storytelling,
and they require a lot of you know, filmic kind

(32:38):
of films, you know, a lot of skills. And that
really did happen in like around two thousand. It's just say, like,
you know, once the recession hit in like two thousand
and eight, two thousand and nine, film opportunity to really
start drawing up, and my managers set down. He's like,

(33:00):
you have to write television now. I was like, what
are you talking about, Like I just finished film school,
Like why don't I don't want to write television? And
you know, at the time, like I mean, Sopranos, I
think had just ended. The wire had been on, but
there wasn't a lot of you know, great there wasn't
a ton of everything had to be at that at

(33:21):
that point standalone. You know, people didn't want the sopranos
per se, or they didn't want the Wire. They didn't
want something that you know, told a story over a season,
and you know, and like anything else TV, it was
hard to get into. There wasn't as much of it
as there is now. Blah blah blah blah. So yeah,
Reality came in and everybody just kind of went that

(33:42):
way because it was easier to get jobs on reality
and if you knew how to write a script or
had any kind of production experience, it was it was easy.
So yeah, a lot of a lot of talent went
to reality and dark stuff. And Kendra on Top was
actually really funny because I hate Hugh Hefner. I hate,

(34:08):
and I don't. I'm you know, I'm a feminist who
believes he putting women in bunny ears and little outfits
and making them look really fuckable was not an advancement
for women. And but I got a call story produced
on the show called Kendra on Top, and I had

(34:29):
no idea who Kendra Wilkinson was. I had never watched
The Girl's next Door and obviously I hate Hugh Heffner,
so you know, I was like, well, I don't really
think i'm a good good for that, and the person's like, no, really,
you should go in and just just check it out.
You know, she's actually, you know, her story it's a
light show. It's kind of a comedy, and you know

(34:51):
she's she's you know, she's married as a kid, and
it's not that kind of show, and she's kind of,
you know, a tough chick. So it's like, okay, So
I went in and got the job and had never
really story produced per se, and which basically, do you
know what story producing is? Yeah, So it's just basically

(35:13):
you're taking the footage that was shot and cutting it
into what is essentially kind of like the rough cut
that that's the that's then going to be given to
the editor. So I did that. It was the first
I was given the first episode of the first season
of the show. So it was a new show that
she was doing for we TV. Previously she had been

(35:36):
a e TV. So the network was really you know,
kind of putting it through its paces, as they do
when it's you know, a pilot, when it's you know,
it's the first show of a season, and I got
kind of close with the very eccentric executive producer of
the show. And and by close, I just mean he

(35:59):
would scream at me a little less than he screams
everybody else because he was a screamer, and we got along,
you know, I was able to get along with him
for whatever reason. And but the guy who was my boss,
the supervising story producer who works that position, works really
closely with the field in crafting the stories and making

(36:21):
sure that you know the stories are are you know
that everything it's in the story is shot, and that
you know episodes track from episode to episode and across
the entire season, or character arcs or story arcs, all
that stuff. That guy, within like two or three weeks,
really great guy named Kevin I'm still friends with, couldn't
take couldn't take the environment at that production company anymore,

(36:44):
and quit just walk like just no notice. It's just
like I can't do this anymore. And so they tapped
me whatever even again never even story produced, and they
were like, well, you be the supervising story producer on
the show, and I was like, sure, yeah, of course,
you know, and then called Kevin I'm like, Okay, what
am I supposed to do as a supersizing story producer?

(37:07):
And he basically told me. I was like, okay, all right,
and it was It was easy and it was fun.
I don't watch reality TV. I the only episodes of
Kendra on Top I've ever seen are the ones that
we made. But it was fun to make it, you know,
it was It was kind of fun television to make it,
and I ended up doing it for two seasons because

(37:28):
I was at the time writing this kind of in depth,
intense sci fi script feature script, and it was great.
It was a great job to have I was writing.
So that's kend.

Speaker 3 (37:42):
So can I have to ask, when you touched on
somebody who was a real big screamer, how do you
handle situations like that? You know, everyone has sort of
a different idea of how to handle that, where somebody
who maybe is your boss or maybe someone who is
your coworker, they're just very hard to handle on a
film that h How were you able to handle and

(38:03):
handle it so well?

Speaker 4 (38:07):
I just it was a combination of just waiting it
out and or getting up and leaving at one point
I did in that first season. I just got up
and left and I was just like, I'm done, and
his kind of second guy in charge or whatever like

(38:30):
called me repeatedly on the way home. Please don't quit,
Please don't quit. He's so sorry, Please don't leave. And
I was just like, I can't. I just I can't.
You know, that's it's completely inappropriate, the yelling. And I
don't know if he had said something personal or I
don't remember what it was. But and then the guy

(38:51):
himself called and apologized, and I was like, okay, whatever,
I guess, I guess I'll go back. And then you know,
of course, like all cereal whatever whatever. He was nice
after that. I think, you know, entertainment business is a
tough business, and I think any business, whether they're you know,

(39:15):
there was a good McSweeney's thing recently saying, you know,
if women you know, are you familiar with mc sweeney's. Yeah, yeah,
everything's all tongue in cheek, and it was like, kind
of you know, if women can't handle the entertainment business,
they should get out. You know, it is kind of
funny they can't handle, you know, having meetings in a

(39:35):
hotel room. You know that, you know, instead of you know,
at a table then you know, they're too sensitive and
they should get out. And then it was like, you know,
maybe they should go into television, you know, like talking
about like Bill Bill O'Reilly and you know, and maybe
they can't handle television, maybe they should go into tech,
you know, And then it goes into tech where the
guy next to you is like, you know, writing an

(39:56):
essay on why women are inferior, and you know, women
are getting hit on when they're pitch their app ideas
and if you don't want to do tech, you should
go to politics.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.

Speaker 4 (40:14):
You know, we're the president of the United States, and
you know, saying grab them by their pussy. So it
was just it was really hilarious and it kind of
it kind of detailed like I think women have it
tough obviously in every industry, and there's I don't know,
maybe there's more of a put up with it miss

(40:35):
that women have. Uh, I don't know, but yeah, I
mean typically if somebody, this particular person I felt was
at the end of the day harmless and just kind
of crazy, and it wasn't. Uh. I was never sexually

(40:55):
harassed or anything like that. It wasn't that kind of
thing at all. I think if I'd ever felt actually,
I did work at Miramax back in the day when
I first started, and did walk away with a check
because the environment was a sexist environment, and at the time,

(41:17):
I just I went into the guy was working for
who It's funny this guy has now come out and said, oh,
it's so crazy that Harvey wants he was acting this way.
I walked through the office and says, you know, it's
obvious I'm not the kind of assistant that you want.
Maybe you should just you know, write me at check
and I'll leave. And he handed me a check request
I walked it down to account's payable and I left

(41:37):
that company. It was a horrible company and everybody knew it.
So yeah, no, I think I think it depends on
the situation. I think there are certain types of situations
I would never stand for. You know, I would never
stand for to be sexually harassed in an environment. But
screamers and you know, emotional people who are creatives who

(41:59):
lose their their ship from time to time. That kind
of just comes with the territory with creative people. They're
not always the most professional business types that you're ever
going to deal with, you know, same with talent, you know,
you never I mean, I don't know. Creative types are
just more emotional and there's a part of it that

(42:19):
you just kind of got to accept that and roll
with it.

Speaker 3 (42:23):
Yeah, I concur there's the worst person I've ever had
to work with was a director of cinematography who, uh, well,
it's actually tossed up to the worst person I worked with,
but mine was a director of cinematography who thought that
he was God's gift to everybody.

Speaker 4 (42:41):
And oh, yeah that guy, Yeah, that guy.

Speaker 3 (42:44):
Guy, you work with them too, all right, No, no,
just but y'all know that guy. Yeah, well exactly right.
Everyone's got a story about that guy. But uh, what
happened was he actually was was like kindes setting to everybody.
So finally I call him over and he and I started,
you know, I said to him, did did is there
something wrong? Is there did somebody say something to you?

(43:05):
Is there something that happened? Let's just talk this out.
And he basically took that as I wanted to fight him.
I just yeah, and I was like, and I said,
are you serious right now? And finally this it was
we were just about the day was just about over anyway,
and we just broke early that day and I said,

(43:26):
this guy is never coming back. It's got to we
got to make a decision. I went to the producers
and I said, you have to make a decision. Either
he goes or I go, like this is absolutely terrible,
and uh, they chose me, and they were like, yeah,
we're we're we don't like him either, because apparently he
mouthed off to them too. And I'm like, oh good,
we all hate him. We were in agreements, all right.

Speaker 4 (43:42):
Yeah, him out of here. Yeah, so it didn't come
to fist a cups. You didn't have to like, no,
you didn't have to fight him.

Speaker 3 (43:49):
No, no, I have to fight him. That god, because
we were in a public place too, so it wouldn't
have gone well for anybody. It would have been. Uh
it wasn't like on like a closed set. It was
like we were in all the open, so in a
public place, so we would have gotten and we have
permission to shoot and everything like that. It's just that,
you know, uh, two guys fighting in the middle of
Philadelphia doesn't really bode well.

Speaker 4 (44:09):
But right right, yeah, no, that's The other thing, right,
is that in addition to emotions and feelings, you have egos,
right that you know that some people their egos get
out of whack, and whether it's because there they have
a ton of self doubt you know, buried underneath, or

(44:31):
because they think they're too good for the situation or
the film or the project or you know whatever. Which again,
if they think that, it's probably just all boiled down
to self doubt. But yeah, it's it's it's tough. It's
a tough business and a lot of times, you know,
especially you know in film and TV, and I need

(44:52):
to tell you, you know, people are calling in favors or
there's I don't know, there's there's always a million different
things going on with every single person that's on set.
And you've either become like a family in a few weeks,
a happy family, or you become a really dysfunctional, angry family,
you know, depending on the crew.

Speaker 3 (45:13):
So usually yeah, usually for me, it's the latter, where
we become like this cpuctural family. Yeah, you love to
hate him and hate to love him, so it's.

Speaker 4 (45:22):
Right, yeah, exactly exactly, But boy do you miss him
and you see him on Facebook You're like, oh my god,
like what he just pensted? I love that guy, you know,
yeah two years later?

Speaker 3 (45:31):
Yeah, yeah, right, because you end up being ends up
being a small world and uh, you know, as you
should have go from project to project and and and
you sort of meet all these familiar faces. But but
you know, Kim, I wanted to ask, and this is
the you know, we actually met because I saw, you know,
this project being tweeted out, and I wanted to ask
how you got involved with Gaga five foot two? Uh,

(45:53):
Lady Gaga? Obviously I'm not even gonna I mean should
I think everyone listening knows who she is? Unlet's even
under a rock for the past. Yeah, yeah, I think
everybody knows the Lady Gaga is. So I wanted to ask, Kim,
you know, how did you get involved with the with
the project.

Speaker 4 (46:09):
So Chris mccarvil, the director, and I had worked together
on sex On. So we met on the HBO show Sexon,
which is a show about how sex and relationships exist
online and with technology. So it was all about like,
you know, sex, relationships, love and technology. And he and

(46:31):
I are both super into music and technology and the
Internet and sci fi, and we were kind of a
love fest when we first met. And so after sex On,
we did the that pilot that I was telling you about,
but the Russian trolls and you know, that had to
do with the Internet of things kind of. And then

(46:54):
we did another project that was also kind of like
a development project. And then he he had a meeting
with Live Nation and they said that they might have
this Lady Gaga documentary that there was potential for him
to direct it, and he got he got really exciting

(47:16):
because oh, there might yeah, this might happen. I was like, okay, well,
you know, He's like, I really want you to produce that.
I'm like, all right, great, well let me know if
it happens, because it just didn't seem it just seemed
like kind of a long shot, you know. And so
then I think it was almost like a month later.
A month went by and he went he met with

(47:37):
god was producer Bobby Campbell, and he and Bobby really
hit it off. And he called me and he's like,
I met with her manager. I really liked him. He's
super cool. I think it's really going to happen. And
I was like, okay, great, He's like I was okay, great, well,
you know, because you know, I mean, there's always something right, like,

(47:58):
there's always two or three or four projects that are
maybe going to happen or could happen, or you know,
and then they'll all go away and then something else
will come up. But you just never know. And I
was so I wasn't really super excited about it. I
just didn't I thought it kind of cool, and you know,
obviously I would would have been thrilled, but I just
didn't know. And then and then another few weeks ago

(48:21):
by I feel like, and he called me and he's like, okay,
I got a call to go and film her at
her house tomorrow. And I'm like, no way, and he's
like yeah, He's like it's happening. It's happening. And I
was like, okay, So we got him. He had a
camera and I think we just used a lens that

(48:41):
he already had because I don't think we even had
a plan in place yet. We ended up shooting on
can See three hundreds using as ice uh super speed
lenses fixed lenses, which was which is an immense challenge
and in some way stupid of us, but also brilliant
because it allowed us to you always had to be

(49:02):
close to her to film her, within like a few feet,
and I think you feel that in the film, which
is what we wanted. We really wanted it to feel
like a because so he goes and shoots this one
day and he comes back and we sit down and
watch all this footage, and we're going to cut together
this little kind of teaser to give to Live Nation,
and we're watching it and it's like he really got

(49:25):
a sense, and you really get a sent to the
footage she shot the first day, a lot of which
ended up in the film of what it was going
to be like filming her, that it was going to
be this really rare close up view of her, and
then it was going to be like this door would
open and we'd go in, or just he would go

(49:47):
in or whatever and then film and then the door shuts,
you know. And then so we knew that, and that
kind of contributed to the lenses and the camera that
we chose and the way we chose to film. We
couldn't have a big crew.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.

Speaker 4 (50:12):
You know, you're not going to go into her house
or get on her plane or go into her studio
when she's recording with five people, She's never going to happen.
So we needed to do something that was compact, that
would allow for you know, just a DP, a very
discreet sound person who knew how to you know, who
could get out of the way and often not mike
her and and then a camera set up that you know,

(50:37):
Chris could use if he needed to. I shot for
a minute in one of the locations. I think I
shot the last step of the film where she's talking
about Shart, where she's his Shart in the credits. I
think I was shooting that in Nashville. But yeah, so
so he did that. We put together thing for Live

(50:58):
Nation and they were like, you know, and then the
next call I got was Chris on the phone with
one of the vps at Five Nations saying, Okay, we
need a budget and a schedule, and this is the budget.
It's just like, oh, okay, I guess this is happening.
I guess I guess we're making this movie. So literally,
we just immediately were in production like it just like

(51:20):
it was like it was happening right then, right it
was going and we knew we were going to get
a call soon to shoot again, and we sat down
with her manager. We sat down with Bobby and he
kind of gave me a rundown of all of the
things that she had coming up over the summer. This
is like in June of last year of twenty sixteen,

(51:43):
and he just kind of gave us, you know, this rundown, like,
these are all the things she has coming up. Let
us know which ones would be interesting for you guys
to film, you know, whatever you think, these are the
things that we think would be good. These are the
days she's filming in Malibu, These are the days she's
filming in New York or filming I'm sorry, she's making
the record. This is the da she's recording in New York.

(52:03):
These a day's recording in la And you know, if
you want to do those that, you know, let us
know that. You know what, you know who's coming in,
because Florence Welsh came in, and you know, there were
days that obviously Mark Ronson was going to be there
and Blood Pop and other people that she was collaborating
with that we wanted to make sure we got and

(52:25):
so yeah, we literally just it's like the door opened
and we were in and we were making the film
and we started we didn't know. We didn't know that
she was up for the super Bowl, Like, we didn't
even know that. And I think within two months we
knew that she was up for it. And there's scene

(52:47):
I think after she does the DNC performance, she's in
the car. I think this is still in the movie. No,
I can't remember right now, but but Bobby says to her,
you know, I think we got it, or you know,
or I think we're going to get or it looks
like we might get it. She's like, I think we're
going to get it. And it was kind of news

(53:09):
to us that she was even up for it. Once
we knew she was up for it, we were just like,
she's going to get it. Of course she's going to
get it, and we wanted her to get it because
we were like, this is the end of the movie.
You know we're watching because we just felt it immediately.
It was like this is the end of the movie.
Because she hadn't made an album three years, she was
making a new album. It was a huge departure from

(53:32):
a lot of her dance music that you know, she
had done fire and she was also you know, she
was doing this whole new look where she was wearing
jeans and t shirts and instead of these crazy costumes
and you know, these beautiful costumes i should say, in
masks and whatever else. It was very stripped down, and
it was it was completely new. So to see her

(53:56):
do that to the course of the film and then
to be able to you know, and also to kind
of see her in this really stripped down raw real
way that we were seeing her. And then to have
the end of the because and there were no you know,
she wasn't on tour. We filmed her a million times,
you know, doing shows or performances, but they were all

(54:17):
they were all pretty small. She did a dive bar tour,
she did the DNC, she did Tony Bennett study a birthday,
she did pr stuff, She performed in Tokyo, but nothing
like you know, one of her concerts or you know,
or in a stadium or like the super Bowl. So
you know, it was just such a it was just

(54:37):
such a no brainer. And we knew she was at four,
so oh, this is the end and we can see
so that we see this person, you know, and I'm
five nine, so to me it is like so small.
We were in the edit, I was like explaining to
the editor, who hadn't met her yet, but of course
had spent thousands of hours with her, you know in
his mind, you know, in reality, you know, watching her

(54:58):
on screen, and I was like, it's so amazing because
she's like this little person. I mean again to me,
because I've always felt as a woman, I've always felt
big because I'm I'm almost five to nine. And and
then I just I kind of started seeing he pops,
you know on fat foot, what is on fat foot?
Wand and and that ends up being a possible title.

(55:21):
Chris was like, oh, maybe that's the title we had.
We had a million titles and we could not naming
anything is the worst, so that ends up going on
the on the title list. And but yeah, so it
was it was a real windfall for her to do
the super Bowl because then we could see this stripped down,
small person do this thing that was larger than life,

(55:42):
and see how she did it. You know, for us,
anybody can go on YouTube and watch her super Bowl
performance from beginning to end. What we wanted to see
was the viewpoint of what it's like backstage, what it's
like when she's you know, rehearsing in her sweatpants, you know,
when her hit her it's in the in that back room.
And that back room really was where everybody hung out

(56:04):
and stayed. It's not a beautiful place, you know, it's like,
but that's the reality of of of what what it's
like behind the scenes. And for us, it was you know,
all of it was kind of fascinating and it was
really it was really fascinating to be to be in
that world for the time that we were in it.

Speaker 3 (56:24):
So what was your most memorable experience you know, making
the uh, making this documentary.

Speaker 4 (56:34):
God, there were so many, I mean the most the
thing that one of the things that really stuck with
me was everywhere we went with her. You know, you'd
go in an suv, you know, there'd be like several
black SUVs or vehicles, and you'd enter through the security

(56:55):
entrance and go up a back elevator. You enter, you
enter space is the most ugly way, you know what
I mean, Like you kind of enter every space. You're
like the same way a messenger might enter that space,
you know, or something like that. Just the most you know,
you're not going typically through the palatial you know, front

(57:16):
entrances of any of anywhere. You're always just going through
the bottom to get her up to a back room.
It's like a green room, fitting room, and and she's
in you know, a makeup hair room with all of
her you know, closest people who are helping. And then
there's you know another room that's all the production people
and the musician related people, and you know, I mean

(57:38):
there's there's several rooms of people wherever she goes whenever
she performs it for anything or does an appearance. And
the interesting thing was so that was interesting, and then
we would go we would go in you know that way,
and then we'd go and set up our cameras you know,
and sound or whatever, and then go back down to
the street to film. Often and the barricade would be

(58:00):
up and all these people would be out there like
waiting for her, and we'd be filming from behind the barricades.
And it was a really surreal experience because you just
see how much these people revere her. And you know,
at one point, she did a show in la and
I was interviewing people because that one might be interesting

(58:20):
for the film because your album had just come out.
To talk to people about her and her music and what,
you know, why they were such fans. And afterwards I
walked into the venue and just like start crying because
I was like, oh my god, you know, like people
it's not just you know, hero worship or whatever. It's
like people identify with her because of her message of

(58:42):
if you don't fit in, if you're an outsider, that's cool.
You know, that's a great thing to be, you know,
especially from born this way and all that. So that
was that was a huge That was kind of that
was super memorable. It was also memorable when she we
were Okyo and we were she was getting she was

(59:04):
practicing for this performance on this show, and I was filming.
I think I was filming Chris filming her, so I
think I was just filming with an iPhone. So I
was filming him filming her, and she walked over to me.
She's like, I'm really sorry, but this is a close set.
We just really need to focus on this show. And

(59:25):
it's like she was kicking me out. I was like,
I looked at it, I.

Speaker 3 (59:30):
Go, it's me.

Speaker 4 (59:30):
It's Kim the for the doc. And she's like, oh
my god, I'm so fine. She's like you're like me,
You're like a chameleon. Like never She's like, you always
give your hair drift. I never know. She's like, it
always takes me a minute to know it's you. And
she was like so fleeing, like hugged me and was
like I'm really sorry. But it was like, cause we've
been filming her for like two months at that point,

(59:52):
I was like, really, you're kicking me out, like obviously
I got to stay. But yeah, so that was funny.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
and now back to the show.

Speaker 4 (01:00:09):
So we really I mean that just also just goes
to speak to we really tried to be slies on
the wall like we were. It's one hundred percent difference
of making reality T. When you're making reality TV, it's like, Okay, Kendre,
this is a scene. So you're going to come in
and you're going to be mad at this person for
what they said or what you thought they said, and
you guys are going to have an argument. Okay, everybody ready, Okay,

(01:00:30):
action you know, you know what I mean. And then
they improvised it out however they're going to do. And
but making a doc, especially about Lady Gaga, who is
actually doing things in the moment, and you know, whether
she's rehearsing for the Super Bowl or for a program
she's about to be on in Tokyo or making a record,
she is busy, and so you're not. The last thing

(01:00:53):
you're trying to do is to get in her way,
you know.

Speaker 3 (01:00:57):
So yeah, yeah, I mean, because I imagine, you know,
she the why you're where you're describing a kimp. She
had a small army and then to make a film
as a small army. So it's so, now make up
a giant yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:01:10):
So yeah, And the army was often just Chris and I.
Our army was typically Chris and myself and a sound
person and a DP that was typically we didn't even
have We often didn't even have a PA. In fact,
we didn't even have a data transfer a person. I would,
at the end of the shoot day do all the

(01:01:31):
data transfer from the cards to drives in my hotel room.
I did. I did all that because A I didn't
trust anybody with the footage and be there was just
was no there was just no point and you know,
and bring we couldn't really bring anybody else on. At
one point in New York. We had a PA for

(01:01:52):
a little while to drive us a place and sort
of go grab stuff if we needed it, but we
didn't really you know, or we've had we had a
production and coordinator in LA that we'd have the in
our office. We had two production coordinators here in LA
that we would have go do stuff or whatever. But
typically when we were filming, it was it was super minimal.

Speaker 3 (01:02:13):
Yeah, I was going to say, I imagine it was
probably like see it's grulla filmmaking. You know, you're getting
your hands dirty. You know, you're you're one minute your producer,
next minute, you know you're transferring footage. It's all for
the love of the game, right Kim, Yes, exactly it is.

Speaker 4 (01:02:29):
And you know if you love it, if that's you love,
then you don't care because you love it, you know,
And I really love filmmaking and I love storytelling, and
you know what's not to love about, you know, running
around with a camera after Lady Gaga. I mean, you
know there's no you're not going to complain about that.

(01:02:49):
So yeah, it was. It was great. It was fun.

Speaker 3 (01:02:52):
And were you surprised when Netflix picked us up?

Speaker 4 (01:02:57):
No? Not really, because the film was financed by Live Nation,
and there were multiple people who were interested and so
I mean I even have friends who buy films for
studios and they were interested. So we kind of we
just didn't know who the buyer was going to be.

(01:03:17):
That was up and that was that was up to
Live Nations, so they controlled the movie.

Speaker 3 (01:03:23):
And the film is on Netflix right now. Correct, Yes
it is.

Speaker 4 (01:03:28):
You can stream it from the comfort of your own home.
You don't have to leave the house, you can go. Yeah,
you can watch it any time anywhere.

Speaker 3 (01:03:36):
And I will also link to that in the show notes,
along with a trailer and all the other good stuff
that you know, Kim and I have discussed in this
in this whole conversation. Kim, I just have one more
question before we close out. You know, what are you
working on next?

Speaker 4 (01:03:51):
So right now as we speak, I'm waiting to hear
from an editor whose name is Darren Vary. Is a
great editor who's done I love Dick and Ballers and
to those two shows together are not right. And also
he edited he edited Yeah, I'm sorry, I turned my

(01:04:13):
front no, but he entered this. He edited the film.
The end of the tour with Jesse Eisenberg as well,
and he's just a great editor. So he's overseeing the
edit on a short film I just shot called I directed,
I wrote and directed called Violet's New Life. And it's
a short, but it's also a kind of a it's
a it's a pilot presentation, it's a show presentation. It's

(01:04:37):
about The short is about Violet, who takes place maybe
five or ten years in the future, who just had
her mind downloaded into a thirty five year old synthetic
version of herself. She had a terminal illness at seventy
two and decided to go ahead and have her mind

(01:04:58):
downloaded into a synthetic body. And so she is picked
up by her adopted daughter Joyce and they go to
her funeral and that's the short film. So the show
is basically the show is called Violets New Life, and
it's about Violet acclimating to life as a thirty five

(01:05:18):
year old and you know, I mean to be seventy
two and a thirty five year old bodies it's pretty crazy.
So it's you know, again, I'm super interested in technology
and I don't want to die. I don't want to
die and I don't really even if there is an afterlife,
which will hope. You know, let's if there's something else,

(01:05:40):
I'm not conscious of it now. I don't know what
that is, and that kind of pisses me off, and
it piss me off that my life is so short.
So but then you know, when you think, okay, so great,
what if you know, you take all of your life's experiences,
you live to you're seventy two and you get to
be thirty five again, looks that like, you know, what,
how do you acclimate to life? You know, knowing everything

(01:06:03):
you know and being able to do that? So yeah,
so that's the show is like a it's like a
thirty minute drama y along the lines of Transparent or
Insecure or I Loved Dick or Glow. So so yeah,
So I'm I've written the first two episodes and kind

(01:06:23):
of outline the first few seasons and we'll be taking
that out in the next prime month or two and
submitting it to Festival, the short the short film to Festival.
And that's why I'm organic.

Speaker 3 (01:06:36):
Well, I was gonna say I because I know, again,
as we're talking about TV, that's where it's at right now.
And uh, you know, I even when I discuss things uh,
you know, I don't have an agent manager. But as
soon as I just sort discussing things with a myriad
of people, they always say, well, do you have like
a TV pilot or something or anything TV episodic related.

(01:06:56):
And I'm always like, well, I I you know, I'm
kind of slow, Kim, but I started to notice a
pattern and I'm like, okay, I see it. So uh,
by the I mean, And I even shot at TV
pilot myself a couple of years ago, and I actually
put it up on YouTube right now, so it's yeah,
it was actually pretty cool because where I shot. Right
after me, we shot at a studio right down the

(01:07:17):
street from my house and here in Philadelphia, and right
after us, m Night Shamlan came in to shoot After
Earth with Will Smith. So yeah, they were like, guys,
you have to leave soon because well m Night Shamlan
and Will Smith are coming in the day after you
guys break And I'm like, all right, we'll have everything
cleaned up. So but yeah, I have it up on
YouTube right now. It's all free. It's pretty cool. But

(01:07:38):
but yeah, I mean see so that That's one of
the things I hope people take away is, uh, you know,
you don't want to be in a room and they
and somebody ask what else you got, and you're like, well,
I don't have any episodic stuff, because I now realize
that's the way in uh right now, is to make
sure you have episodic things. But so, Kim, I want
to say, it's been a blast talking to you. Where

(01:07:59):
can people find you out online?

Speaker 4 (01:08:03):
You know, on Twitter? I'm on Instagram. I am Kim
Ray on Instagram, Kim Ray on Twitter. Pretty much. I
don't have a website. I've been toying with the idea
of a website, but I'm kind of like, you know,
what am I going to do put? I don't put
clips from my movies or pages from my scripts on
a webs I don't know. I'm not sold on having
a website right now. But what do you think?

Speaker 3 (01:08:24):
Well, I think really depends upon what your strategy is,
because I think if you're gonna if you're gonna mainly
be you know, talking to other people and and sharing
like trailers and stuff like that.

Speaker 4 (01:08:34):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:08:34):
You know, I again, I'm big on Twitter, and I
think it's where you feel the most comfortable. That that's
usually my my advice because you know, any any tool
is only as good as the person that wields it.
So yeah, that's my sage advice. Kim. I I sound
very said, but well, thank you, thank you very much everybody.

(01:08:56):
I will link to everything Kim and I talked about
in the show, in the show notes and everyone. I
want to say thank you so much for listening. Kim.
I want to say thank you so much for coming on.
This has been an absolute blast, and I hope everyone
checks out Gaga five foot two. By the way, Kim,
do you know Gaga follows me on Twitter? No way,
I'm dead serious. I swear she follows me on Twitter?

Speaker 4 (01:09:18):
Oh my god, should have follow me on Twitter? Because
I never asked. I should ask her social media person.
Can she please follow me? I don't think she follows
even her manager Bobby and I follow each other on Instagram.
But yeah, wow, you're you're That's that's pretty impressive.

Speaker 3 (01:09:36):
I don't even remember. Can you believe this, Kim? I
don't even remember how it happened. I just remember one
day I was like, what, this can't be the real
and it's the real Lady Gaga verified and everything, and
she follows my personal Wow. Yeah, seriously, you should you
should DM it?

Speaker 4 (01:09:51):
You should DM her.

Speaker 3 (01:09:52):
I should. I should be like, hey, I had your
producer on on the podcast, come on.

Speaker 4 (01:09:57):
Tell he should tell her that's awesome.

Speaker 3 (01:10:00):
Really, she'd be like, I said that person I kicked
out off the set that one day, and like it's
the same one. Gotta funny. So, Kim, I want to
say again, thank you so much for coming on. And
uh I wish you the best.

Speaker 4 (01:10:15):
All right, thanks so much, you.

Speaker 3 (01:10:18):
Take care, Kim.

Speaker 1 (01:10:19):
I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
a great job on this episode. If you want to
get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
head over to the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv.
Forward slash for thank you so much for listening. Guys,
As always, keep on writing no matter what.

Speaker 3 (01:10:34):
I'll talk to you soon.

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproof
Screenwriting dot tv.