Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, and welcome back to Business for Entrepreneurs. We're every
week we are connecting a phenomenal expert with inside the
scene of Barns community talking about the business journey, and
this week is no different, but it is very special
because we are joined by the lovely Scott Hunter. Scott,
(00:23):
welcome to the show. It's so lovely to see you again.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I would say the same about you, young man.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
You won't, but you're not good.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I'll just leave it there.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Yeah, now, it is genuinely lovely.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
I feel like it's been ages since me and you
have actually kind of connected on any level because I
think we've just been so busy. But it is lovely
lovely to see you. Yeah, it's cool man, it's cool.
So right, this is this This podcast is literally all
about you. Know. You are a returning guest, which we
(00:57):
always love, but this time we want to hone in
on your history and is it a history to be
honed in on? Because you've got a phenomenal journey and
I don't really know where to start, so I'm going
to hand it over to you, right and I'm going
to say, look, where do you want this story to begin?
Because everything you've done every career choice, every job, every
(01:25):
experience you've had has all led you to this final
place where you are now running your own company, and
everything has led to that bank of knowledge that you
now use, which is phenomenal.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
So yeah, where do you want to start your story?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
I think the easiest place to start is the place
I learned so much, which is when I joined the
prison service at a ripe old age of twenty two.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah, I mean that's quite a young age, do you
know what I mean? Like, yeah, most people haven't even
left university.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
By that point. I wasn't intelligent enough to go to university,
so my options were limited.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
So that was it.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I did four years in the bank and hated it.
I used to work for Goes back of our Midland Bank.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Oh yeah, yeah, they're gone now. They don't even exist.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
They were brought out by Lloyd I think HSBC HSBC,
that's right, because then it became h BOSS HSBC board.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Anyway, we're digressive.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
But they there brought out Bank Scotland and became h
BOSS and then HBOS is brought up by Lloyd's TSP.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
So Middland no longer exists. It was taken over by HSBC.
When I work for them, So, okay, I think you
do with me. But I found when I was there
is I just found there's certain things that I just
didn't like. Didn't like the fact that they tried to
make your corporate so you had to say these things,
you had to do this thing, you had to be
a certain way. And what I really disliked was we
were given targets of things to sell, and I felt, well,
(02:53):
do you know that that's been driven by what the
company needs or what the organization wants, and not necessarily
by what the people I'm actually talking into one on need.
So I think that's when I started realizing that my
principles are much more driven by helping others and make
sure they get the right thing than what I'm being
told to do. So after four years, I left and
(03:13):
then worked for the Prison Service and I worked. I
did eighteen years. I worked all over the place, in
all of them. So I started off in a place
called down View, which is so I don't want to
go it's easy to drop into technical terms about what
it was, but it was a quite small prism, relatively
low security, sort of mid security, sort of the average
things only had a fence around. It didn't have a
(03:33):
big wall. After I was there at twenty two or
say so, very young, dealing with prisoners much older than me,
sometimes even older than my dad, and staff who'd been
in the job for a lot longer, learning from them,
and it was all about I found building relationships because
on an evening there might only be about twenty staff
(03:56):
on duty, but you've got three hundred prisoners unlocked.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
So you're looking at the way you can't utilize ORHI
is not it's not effective to utilize your authority to
get things done. It's very to me. I just thought
it was just unsustainable because as soon as they think
that's authority's gone or you're outnumbered or whatever it is,
in which we were most of the time, then what
have you got to fall back on if things start
(04:24):
going wobbly? What relationships you've got to fall back on?
What things you've got to fall back on to actually
get them back on track when you're talking to people.
So that's when I started to look at how you
connect with people. And we then went into the twelve
Step program. So we had charities coming in working the
twelve Step program for people on drugs so I learned
a little bit of hat drugs and what people did,
and learning how to work with people about supporting people
(04:47):
through stuff. From now, I went to Bell marsh on promotion.
So worked in a high security state for a few years.
Again different ballgame, but again still there was nine of
us on duty. There was two and two hundred and
twenty two hundred and fifty pers something like that unlocked.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
These are class These are Class A prisoners as well.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
They uh no, not where I worked, they almost had them,
I didn't. I The only time I worked with them
is if we took them away and escorts we took
them to court. So I might take them out to
when they were going to court, but they weren't on
the units I worked with. We were taking people straight
out of court. So day one of their prison sentence, right,
whether that be six months or fifteen years, we took
(05:27):
them all day one. You know, I worked on and
then I worked in visits and I worked other places,
so visits we used to come out of their visits.
So that was again dealing with members of the public
and prisoners as well. And how can you You've got
this big room of three hundred people in there, and
if it went it kicked off in someone like that,
you have members of the public in their children, residents
(05:48):
just just been mess So I think I really started
to work and develop the ability to actually influence prisoners
through effective communication and building them relationship and that trust
with them rather than using authority.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
M hm.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
I just don't think it works. It's just not constructive
for long term things that actually get people to do
what you would like them to do.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
And you and you look in at I mean, you're
in an organization, right and we're going to call it
an organization, not as it's not a prison. It's an
organization full of individuals that have rebelled against authority and
they generally don't play well with others, so you know,
(06:35):
it's it's it's a real collectic mix of people in there,
which is not that dissimilar to any company. I mean,
you've got to, you know, people learn to live with
each other, and these are generally people that have started
off on the back foot who don't generally know how
to live with other people.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah, there is that, And you've got the different things
that you've got the prisoners and then you've got the
staff as well. When the management processes around that. So
you were just about finding those balances and all the
different departments saying, oh we need people here, we need
this done, we need that. So the operational pressures as
well that you're under to get things done with certain timeframes.
So I went to bell March, then I left there
and went to work for young offenders. So eighteen to
(07:16):
twenty one in Royals. These were kids chips on the
shoulder and balanced by the chip on the other shoulder,
and how you can manage because again there are different
types of people, different personalities, and the techniques you use
with the adults, a lot of them wouldn't work with
kids because obviously you learn they're not as emotionally adept
at that age as they are when they're older. So
(07:37):
some of the rationale and the talking had to adapt,
and you had to change where you managed. It had
to change. It was much more volatile, much much more volatile,
much more about saving face.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
The irony that you said, then, I'm going to pin
in on it was you said I was working with
young offenders eighteen to twenty five, eighteen to twenty four,
and you said, you know these kids, working with kids,
and actually this was the age group that you joined
the prison service in in the first place. It was
two yeah, slightly, yeah, but you know you were you
(08:13):
were you were still in that age graft though. I mean,
you know, to think that actually, where these kids are becoming,
they're starting their career, or some of them not even starting,
but they're in their starting their career of adult crime,
is that the same age group is that you went
in to deflect and to learn and train. So it's
just it's just funny how the perception between it and
(08:36):
how I just found that concept really really interesting.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Actually, well because I was older by then, because I'd
already done. I was in my thirties by then. Yeah,
a year older. Art. You have got my own kids
who are righting up to start their teens and stuff.
So they weren't actually much younger than my kids. So
I suppose that's as your position in life changes, your
perception of where people are, everything how you reference them changes. Yeah.
(09:03):
So I did eighteen months there, two years, two years,
and then I went to work at Channing's Word and
worked in a sex offender unit.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
That must have been challenging. I mean, okay, the word
sex offender covers a whole spectrum right from you know,
child sex offense to adult sex offense to you know,
being in the wrong place at the wrong time. It
really does kind of that whole spectrum. But I mean
(09:31):
the skills that you had learned, they may have prepared
you for it, but they I mean, you had to
learn a whole new skill set for this this role.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Surely, Again, this is about how do you stay what
I learned a lot there is that Again, it's about
the principles. You have the values of principles, things that
are right and things that are wrong. And because of
to me, it doesn't really matter what the other person's
done there are they have things that they are entitled
to or should still happen as it's been able to
say been able to stop and control your own impulses
(10:00):
and say no, that's not the right thing to do,
or really starting to manage yourself and be much more
aware of where you are at that moment and are
you in the right place to have these conversations? Yeah,
you have some very very challenging conversations. Violence and dealing
with aggression is easy.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Yeah, yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Having a chat to somebody who's just talking about their
fence of using a five year old girl and you
have a five year old daughter at the same time,
is a little bit more challenging on the emotional level.
So it's how do you manage that emotional that emotional journey,
but still remain professional, still remain doing what you'll pay
to do. Still, they're about trying to rehabilitate these people
(10:41):
so they can get reintegrated back into society and not
do any more harm.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
How did that make you feel? Because if you're like
you said, if you because you know, sitting and talking
to somebody in a room where they talking about what
they've done, like that's just something that happened, you know,
because it must bring so many different emotions.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
And it's been aware of where you are in that
time and saying do you know what I said? I
remember one vividly. I was talking to somebody who was
talking to and I said, right, you've got to leave now.
He said, no, I haven't finished this. You have to leave.
He said why. I said, because I'm not in a
position very shortly. But we can carry on having this conversation. Wow,
And I suppose.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
It's being responsible to say I've got to call it
a day. Yeah, you've got to look after yourself as well, right.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Yeah, because it's about understanding where you are and actually
be able to sort of be aware of your own
emotions and what impact are you having on the people
that you're talking to to try and get the outcome
you're looking for.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Did you have it?
Speaker 4 (11:38):
You know, obviously there must be some support, but is
it a sort of big support system and training around
to get into that position in the first place or
not really?
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Not really, we were just told because they changed it.
So they said, as you as you're the manager of
the unit, you've got to You've got these people when
they come into the unit. It's your job and it
was normally done by psychologists, but they can and do
the evening. So we had to move when we receive
prisoners into the psychologists gone home, so it was down
to us and as the manager, it's my role. I said,
there's the form, there's a thing, fill it out, give
its psychology. In the morning, they have a chat with them.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Unbluebal I'm blue. So how long did you spend in
this environment?
Speaker 2 (12:17):
That was about eighteen months two years. Then I moved
to another unit that was working with the eight working
with people on serious drug issues. So these are the
people who are I mean they've been things like selling
their body for drugs. I mean serious, serious that off
the whales they've got Now they're on two to three
year rehab programs. This wasn't one of your twelve step ones.
(12:39):
This was a serious in there. So we were working
with the prisoners on this unit to say, how can
we run this prison, this unit in a way that's
going to help you manage your behaviors and learn more
socially responsible behaviors, but not in a way that's authoritarian
because you've never reacted well to that level of authoritarianism.
It doesn't biting system. And then we had the charity
(13:04):
who were running the program in there as well, so
we basically had to work as a tripartheit of leaders
management saying how can this work in this environment? How
can it work in the line of security of a
prison and rehabilitate these people in that way, but also
give them authority and give them some level of autonomy
and what's happening so they can relearn these social skills
and relearn that responsibility. And then with the charity who
(13:25):
had they had to deliver, so how could we function
as three different sets management, three different outcomes, sets of
pressures to create an environment that work for everybody.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
And something else you've mentioned there as well, which I'm
going to key in on it is you've used the
word environment and you know, people go working in the
prison service and okay, that's fine, or people saying you're
working in an office, Okay, that's fine. Or people say
you're working in a sharp and okay, that's fine. Every
way you work is a differentronment, and you are experiencing
(14:02):
probably some of the most extreme environments in unhostile or
you know, outside of war, right.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
You know that.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
I mean it's that experience. You know, then when you
start looking at like the retail world, where you have
different experiences and different environments, hostilities, pressures, the corporate world.
You know, you've got a small office or you've got
you know, a thousand people, and these these these kind
of the differences and everything in between. You know, your
your experiences within these worst case scenario environments. I mean,
(14:43):
you couldn't get a better foundation than that when you
then start effectively becoming an expert in that subject.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Right, Well, no, that's suppose support people with defer knowledge
and understanding than of what asppost because I only did
eighteen years, so those people have done much longer, possibly
to a deeper degree. But I think it's it was
unusual that I went around so much. Yeah, so I
went to different prisons and worked within those prisons. I
went to the different units.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
And is there a reason did you ask for it
or did or was it just the way it worked out?
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Just kind of the way it worked out life? So
moving around, So the good advantage of working on my
age because I want to move another part of the country,
Well it's prisons everywhere, so I'll move a transfer and
I'll go there. And also I always wanted to learn
and always wanted to develop, and if I got stuck
on one unit or one the air of too long,
I think there's only so much you can learn in
that area. So I wanted to stretch and challenge myself
(15:35):
all the time to carry on learning.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Well, you're now working in an environment that actually right
some people. This is a taboo area where it can
divide opinions. So for example, I actually have a lot
of empathy for people that are on abusive substances because
(15:58):
I often think about the journey that got them there,
you know, And there's different journeys and there's different stories,
and there's different reasons. And I'm not a drug user,
but surely empathy you'll have to. This is where you start.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
Integrating your empathy into this environment.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Right, I think it's yeah, empathy and people I think
people misunderstand what empathy means. To me. Empathy isn't I
agree with what this person's done. Empathy is just trying
to understand where this person's coming Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
That's same for me. That's exactly the same meaning for me.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Empathy, I think we misunder are you how can you
empathize with this person? So well, if I understand where
this person's come from, you can understand possibly why he's
doing what he's doing, but also you might be understanding
what he's trying to achieve, and if we can find
a positive way of achieving the same outcome, then you're
helping this person. And the same is in business. If
you ever look about what do you do in business?
Somebody's having an issue and you've got a solution. You're
(16:51):
trying to create solution that's going to help this person
get to where they go because what they're currently doing
just isn't working for them. Yeah, so you actually take
that context out of this person's substance abuse. I'm not
saying I was. I was. I'm a counselor and helping
people that substance abuse because counseling is an area I
wouldn't go to because I think you can do if
you don't know what you're doing, you can do some
serious damage to people. Anti yourself, absolutely, because there's a
(17:12):
lot of emotional spoken to people, helped people, being open
to people and communicat and all that sort of stuff.
But I think it's coming from a position of curiosity
with care. Yeah, so I really want to understand because
if we can understand, then you can move forward. So
then I went and say I did that for a
couple of years. Then I went to Dartmore the eighteen
months at Dartmore. So again it's got a reputation, and
(17:35):
then I went into National training.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Yeah. Form is quite notorious though, isn't It's quite a
notorious prison, right.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Yeah, it's just got reputation because what it used to
be used for. It used to be used to send
people there because if you've got lost in Dartmore, you
may never come out alive because it's just where it
is is not a nice place to get lost or
get stuck. So escaping from Dartmore was never going to
be a nice thing to plan because the wars are
quite unforgiving up in Princetown. It's not like that so much.
It's also was an old prison of war camp during
(18:04):
Napoleonic Wars.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Yeah, now that I knew as well.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
And American. I think it's also during the American Civil War.
And I think it's got Barbe right. I think it's
got an American cemetery there for people who died as
prisoners of war during the American Civil War.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Wow, you've just.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Round the corner. It's been there a long time. I
did some time there and then I moved on. In
my last state, I did four years as a national trainer,
and the areas I covered there was communication anti manipulation,
so helping staff understand what manipulation looks like so they
can get things to stop them being manipulated. Environment crisis
(18:45):
management and hoshe's negotiation.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
The anti manipulation thing's really easy because that happens, you know.
It's not just I think everybody could have that train
could do with that training, couldn't they? But obviously you're
in an environment and a lot a lot of these
people are masters of manipulation. They're you know, they've honed
in their skills of manipulating people to achieve what they
want to achieve over a long period of time. And
(19:10):
then you've got you know, innocent Scott coming in at
twenty two years old. I should imagine you'd have been
quite an easy subject for manipulation.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah, you around people you work with called Geilcraft to
sort of guide you at the beginning six twelve, eighteen,
two years of your service to actually learn sorts of skills.
So I think what I developed in that time and
gave me quite a unique understand is what makes people
tick and also how to influence people in a way
that is ethical. Yeah, that it is. It's going to
(19:44):
be their benefit as well as my benefit. And really
getting to understand what makes people tick, how people operate,
hostage negotiation, really listening to language, What does this person
actually want? Because what they say is not what they want?
But how can you find that out? What hooks do
people come out in conversations? Can I say something that's
not going to get a reaction from that person, it's
likely to get the victim hurt. How can you inquire?
(20:10):
So if you think about a lot of those skills
and you can just transferable into business and dealing with people.
So you work in environment as a leader, how can
you get your staff on board? How can they buy
into what you want to do? How can you influence
them to act or deliver a public service in a
way that's consistent with what you like. It's the ability
to influence without authority.
Speaker 4 (20:33):
It must be such a difficult sort of set of
skills that you need for negotiating when you know that
somebody else might actually be hurt if you're not getting
it right. So how do you get training for that?
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Well? I was the trainer, which is quite nice. So
they said you want to be a negotiator? I said, no, thanks,
I said, because I was there, I've I've seen in practice,
I've been involved in. I was just taking that live
actually a real one as where a prisoner took a
member of staff hostage. So I was, I was there
(21:09):
and I saw the processes and I saw what was
going on. I said, I understand it, but I don't
want to be the one standing at the moment. Also
because I'd left prison, I'd left operational in prison, so
I wasn't actually working in prison, so for me to
be an actual negotiator was not an option. But they said,
because of what you know and how you are and
your personality, would you like to learn about negotiation and
(21:31):
help develop And we never worked alone and we always
worked as with in line was like psychologists and bits
and pieces when we did the training, it was very interactive.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
I would say, it's incredible. So how long were you
in the training world in the prison service?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Four years?
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Four years?
Speaker 1 (21:53):
And again you know different environments, you know different people.
Now you're not working with prisoners, you just working with
officers coming into the trade or being upskilled in the industry.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
You know.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
So these people are now.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
On your wavelength almost right, But at the same time,
you're changing your approach on how you're dealing with them.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
You're changed.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
You're not negotiating with them anymore. You're you're teaching them
valuable skills that could potentially save their life or the
life of others around them, as well as not put
them or their family in a vulnerable position through manipulation.
What was it like working in that environment.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
I think having the experience go to that credibility. Yeah,
so I wasn't twenty two then just coming into the
job and say, rather, this is how you do it
because people just going what you're talking about. So having
done fourteen years already, I worked around and obviously you
just get to know people and then and I think
that's really what I fell in love with training and
(22:59):
working in that environment because I just again, it's about
helping other people. So it's about I'm helping somebody, as
you say, not get them hurt so they can go
home and their families are going to be safe and
the environments can be safe and they're not putting their
career on the line because they get into a situation
they shouldn't have got into. Or helping governance make decisions
(23:20):
in crisises that are going to be the decisions that
are most likely to have a positive outcome, So how
to we manage a crisis and effectively even that's different
communication styles as well. I used to do so the
people on the radio. So every Joel's got radio internal
radio systems, So I used to teach the radio operators
how to function, how to do that and communicate effectively
(23:42):
and get messages over in a way that was easy
to understand, and within processes and deal with situations as
they arose. So there was quite a lot of overlap
between the sort of stuff I did and then I
left there about eleven years ago.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
It's really funny, Sorry, Sha, you've brought up a another
significant word that I picked out. Communication And this is
your environment that you work in now because in most places,
and ours included, right, our business included, one of the
biggest demons you face is miscommunication.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
And we've gone through and we where one of us
has said something or we haven't said something right, or
we've said one thing meant another, or we've written something
down and it's come across wrong, or the message has
gone out, or I'm trying to understand a graffiti wall
of a diary. And this is where you are now, right,
this is the environment that you are now working at.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
And how long have you been in this environment?
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Call about eleven? Well, the actual company I'm doing this
is about eighteen months or two years old now, which
is the innofoke Crowd. Yeah, and that's developing a program
to help small business owners or leaders create that trust
in their environment so they can influence And a lot
of what we talk around is about that awareness of ourselves,
(25:04):
the awareness of our communication, the awareness of the impact
of what we say and do has on how people
perceive and interact with us. So one of the things
I say is nobody makes you do anything. Everything you
do is a choice. Every word you speak, every word
you write is a choice. But do you really think
about the impact of those choices and the words you're
(25:25):
taking or saying. Is it appropriate to the environment you're in.
How are you reading the impact of what you say
on the audience at that moment, so you can then
recalibrate what you're saying, how you're saying it to be effective.
Thinking about because there's really three things we have in
business that are important to us is relationships, reputation, and revenue. Yeah,
(25:48):
three key things for a business to do. If you
don't have trust and don't understand the impact you have
around others, chances is your reputation will be damaged. You
won't be able to build relationshipship which have a negative
impact on your ability to generate revenue, whether that's through
a nonprofit or an organization with that revenue with dead.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
So it's so true. It's absolutely, so so so true.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
And I mean, you know many there's many anagrams and
mottos around trust, you know, like no like and trust
people buy from people, you know, these are these are massive.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Subjects. What is your your niche? What what?
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Where do you I mean, look, I know that you
can work with anyone from you know, a small business
right up to you know, NASA if you really wanted to.
But where do you like working? Where's your where's your
sweet spot? Who are the people that you really like
engaging with?
Speaker 2 (26:51):
I think it's two, I think, and it's the way
the program is going to be developed is going to
allow it to happen on two levels. So the first
one is people like me, you know, just getting out there,
trying to make a difference, trying to do something on
their own, and just wanting to understand how they can
communicate more effectively, build those relationship, really understand what they're
(27:13):
doing and the impact on their environment so they can
have a much more positive impact on those around them
and by then hopefully their business. So those so solopreneurs
and people like that. So that's one of the reasons
this is, by the way, it's not sales pitch. But
one of the reasons is it is going to be
quite automated the process, but is also going to be
(27:33):
very accessible. Yeah, very accessible. Then the other one is
to work with seeing managers in a small or medium
sized company so that I could work with them and
then you give the tools about how they can then
use those tools with their teams. Yeah, so things like
helping managers really reconnect with the purpose and the values
(27:56):
of a business and then understands give them some tools
that they can then manage some of their emotional responses
in line with those values.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
Because this is something that a lot of companies fail
to achieve. Right they promote people right.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
On the job interview or you know, and they've said
the right thing at the right time, or they've been
there the right amount of time, or they have plenty
of knowledge in that particular area of the business, but
then very rarely people are actually trained on how to
manage people. You know, I'm not an engineers phenomenal engineers,
(28:33):
and then they get put into management roles and they
know what they're doing because they're not a manager, they're
an engineer, and they've had no training on how to
manage and this is this is something that you offer,
isn't it?
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Yeah? And different I thinking what I do in the
buying and sort of sending somebody on a traditional leadership
development programs leadershipment program and have things like what's different
to leadership and management? What's this? What's that's? What's this?
My mum will up with why are you a manager?
M what's your purpose? What do you stand for that's
(29:08):
important to you? They're asking things like, okay, then how
are you responding in a way that's aligned to that?
And here are some tools to help you?
Speaker 4 (29:18):
This is This is so common practice when it comes
to solopreneurs as well, because they often have a great idea,
but they might have always been managed themselves. So when
it actually comes to managing the business or being able
to promote what they do in a correct language can
be so so difficult, I think because they just think
(29:39):
that everyone is going to understand what's become their business
and their baby. And I think a lot of people
I don't want to hear your aspect of that, because
do you find that a lot of people sometimes kind
of get lost with that language and communication.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Absolutely, it's because especially if we're an expert at what
we're selling. Then we have a language around what we're
selling that the people we're saying too aren't experts or
else they would be buying from us. Yeah, so quite
often it's about finding And again that's if so one
of the activities is called language detective. So basically, as
you go about your day to day, probably not today,
(30:14):
probably tomorrow, as you're inviting into conversation of conversations with people,
listen to the words what motivational words or emotive words
can you hear that person say? And when I talk
about emotions, when somebody's describing emotions, they might talk about
this frustrated me, I was angry to did it? So
it gives you something to so what emotions is this
(30:35):
person demonstrating this time in this conversation. Because if they're
demonstrating in their language emotions that are not going to
be favoral for your conversation, why you continue trying to
have that conversation with them? They're not in the right place.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
We spent a lot of time not talking.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
But also then you can think about where emotional states
are they so you can actually gauge them. But also
then you can start what motivational words are they using,
what motives they're talking about? Are they talking about something
they want to achieve, something they want to avoid. When
they're talking about something and you ask them how things
are going, what's the first thing they mentioned regularly, because
that tends to be the thing that's the most important
to them, because it's the first thing they talk about.
(31:14):
If they give you a list of five or six things,
the first couple of the most important, what word do
they regularly repeat when they're talking about something? And that's
an area of concern. So even just by listening for
that sort of repetition of language, listen to the emotive
or motivational language people say. They throw out hooks all
the time in our communication. From that, you can then
(31:36):
build a really deep understanding of that individual, And if
that's a potential client, next time I talk to them,
I now know what language they resonate with, So I
want my language to resonate roughly the same as theirs.
I know what things they're trying to achieve and what
things are important to them. So how does my thing
help them? What's important to them? How does it link
to their whatever they're trying to achieve or avoids because
(31:57):
people tend to want to achieve something or avoid something
that motivates every single behavior we do. It's never the
same with people, So we're not complicated with complex Listen,
language helps us unpick some of that complexity. Then we
can simplify it into our communication. When we're talking to
somebody and we are now aligned with what they want
(32:17):
and need in language they understand, chances are they going
to be on board you a lot easier.
Speaker 4 (32:22):
This is a really good method to put it into practice.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
You can do this to yourself as well.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
They're right with a whiteboard, you know, you could ask
yourself these questions and then just write down the answers
and you're looking right at yourself. Then you're looking at
a mirror vision of yourself.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
And well you can just yeah, what language do I use?
If somebody says to me, what's how do I answer
that email? And just start looking at the communication, what's
the thing this person says? Another tip if you're looking
at where you are in relationship wise, because trust there's
a massive emotional impact on trust. How transaction that conversations
you're having with somebody, if it's purely transaction or your
(32:56):
trust levels are low, So don't try and go into
something because they don't trust him enough yet, and they're
signaling that in their communication with you. If you don't
listen to that, jump in too quick and do some
damage that relationship. But if it's still transaction or then
drop in some emotional language into that and see how
that responds, then you're gauging where that person is. So
(33:18):
you're just dropping in and seeing what's the reaction I'm
going to get from that.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
You look very good at that.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
You're very good at saying and then pausing, saying and
then pausing, and you notice anyone listening in, you'll know that.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
That's something that you do. You you say something and
then you wait for the answer, or you'll say something
you wait for the reaction. I'm actually not that good
at that. It is not my forte. I tend to say.
I tend to be more conversational and hope I'm very
lucky where I can generally pick stuff out.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
But what someone going into business, what or even they're
in business, what top tips from a business perspective could
you give them to make them a more motivational person
within their own company.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
I think the first thing really is assess why they're
in business and be clear about what is it you're
trying to achieve, because then at least what you've now
got is a north staff on which then to look at,
how do I achieve that there's this align with what
I've got. So you've got something to do and there's
several tips around it, so you can do. You go
(34:27):
to any business coach, they're going to ask you to
do this. So it's way in business, build up an
avatar who's your customer for? Because we tend to start
with the product and we get an idea, go into
business and think how the hell am I going to
sell this thing? Who's it for? And that's a journey
in itself, and I've been on that journey for the
last eighteen months or two years trying to hone develop
ideal idea and think about where it is. But if
(34:49):
you start from internally, then everything is driven by what's
inside and that's a lot easier to stay true to. Yeah,
So I think having that and staying true to me,
clear about it, and then that's sort of the stuff
that's important to you and that will help drive you.
And then when you talk to people, they'll see that
come out in your conversation about what you're trying to
(35:09):
achieve and what you're doing as a Daniel Pink wrote
this book called Drive, and when he wrote it, he
talks about purpose, but he talks about purpose as a
big peek changing the world type of purpose. But he
said afterwards and a few years after he wrote the book,
so if you rewrite the book, he would have a
small P and a question to ask somebody, what is
(35:29):
the contribution you want to make? So I don't think
about the big P about the simonsonic why, because that
can sometimes blow our minds. Yeah, what's the contribution you
want to make? That's a much easier question to sort
of get our head around. I'm not trying to change
the world. Here, be nice if I could, but I'm
not trying to. But what contribution do you want to make?
Speaker 1 (35:49):
That's a really, really top tier and I think everyone
needs to think about that when they're going into business.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Right.
Speaker 4 (35:55):
I think it's important to have to take time out
because I think it might change. Like you were saying,
you've been on the journey for eighteen months, and I
think you as to develop as a business, it's really
important to step out of that sometimes and rethink about
how it's how you're contributing and how it's changed, and
what your purpose might be for the next sort of year,
(36:19):
or you know, building a.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Plan and don't ignore what lands on your doorstep. You
might have an idea, but you've got something that another
audience loves. Yeah, yeah, suddenly I thought I was wanted
to help them, but these people really love what I'm
trying to do. So that is so you might fall
into that sort of audience and that sort of area.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
So yeah, I've seen that as well.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
I've seen that a few times, especially around the bicycle
industry and the disability wheelchair user. There's a lot of
crossover and the same believe or not, with the world
of buggies and then the world of wheelchairs. You know,
things that clip on and they bags and all the
(37:01):
same stuff. They're very, very similar, and I've seen companies
that have fallen into those kind of I started off here,
and actually I can adapt my product and it can
be just as useful over here. A matter of fact,
it can be. There's more of a want over here
as well. So that's that is super interesting. Right, We've
got to draw the show to an end because literally, Scott,
(37:22):
I could talk to you all day. I find you
one of the most fascinating human beings on earth. Right,
So if you were going to you know, if you
were going to say to someone, right, uh, this is this,
this is this is where I am. This is the
type of thing that I offer. This is what you know.
This is your sales pitch kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
Right, what what would you how what is.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Your sixty seconds? What is your sales pitch? What is
it that you actually offer businesses? And how can they
find out more about that?
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Well, it's an AWFICA bit because it's in the process
of being redone because we're going to put it on
your whole new platform. So it has been adaptive from
the last time when I was going to work with
learning and development professionals. Yeah, and then I said, you know,
after talking to people, they just said, no, this is leadership.
So basically what I help people do is build trust
based influence so they can create relationships, improve their reputation,
(38:17):
and increase revenue. That over a period of time. So
it's usually a three to four month program. It can
be helped assisted by me, or they can do it
on their own with because I use activis. I think
one of the difference is I give people the tools
to do it. Yeah, so I give people like that
thing about that game, I'll talk to you about the
(38:38):
language detective. They get that do that for a week,
talk to different people, and in that program, what they
do is they really explore their purpose. What do I
want to be in business for? What do we recognized for?
Where do I want to see myself in three years?
But done in a slightly different way to a business plan,
because you get asked these questions a lot, and I
(39:01):
found them quite difficult to do. So I try to
find a way that's easier for people to understand those
questions and rephrase them in a way that resonates with
people in an easier way sort of activity. So it's
not all business speak.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
So instead of using values, I just say what's what's
important to you? What principles do you want to live by?
Because you talk about values, again, it's a language that
some people understand, some people don't. Most people understand principles.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
I've got to hang up the other day about strategy.
Someone said to me, you need a strategy.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Everyone has to have a strategy, and there's all these
strategies and I'm like, I don't even know what a
strategy looks like.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
It's a plan.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Yeah, and that's but that's exactly what how it was
worded to me. It's like, yeah, but okay, so what
is it that you that you're doing it and why
are you doing it?
Speaker 3 (39:41):
And how are you getting it there? That that's the
strategy and I was like, well, that makes perfect strategy.
It's like everyone, everyone, you've gotta have a strategy. And
I'm like, I don't have strategies. I don't understand what
they're all about.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
So if we start with that and then we go
into trust, because I think, I'm sorry, I know that.
So trust is multi dimensional because you and trust somebody
with your car keys might not trust them with the project. See.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
I said that one somewhere as well, and I said,
isn't it true that you can trust that there's different
levels of trust and you can trust someone with your car,
but it might not trust them with your children.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
It didn't go down well in a room for the people.
They all thought they all thought that I was a
bit on, But.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
I don't think i'd use trust for children, probably because
of my background and where I used to work.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
Yeah, I had a great point, right, but.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Yeah, the point was there, But again understand the audience
and our communication is another way. Yeah, So it's that
when you evaluate your relationships are important to you for
you to be successful in your business and what level
of trust are they and what I mentioned? And then
how can you build total trust which is on all
of it. So how can you begain to trust them
and how can they start to trust you? So you
evaluate that. The last bit is impact. So then how
(40:49):
do you identify who your key stakeholders are, who is
important to you and your business to be successful internally
and or externally. Then how do you get to understand
them at a deeper, deeper level, which is around that
sort of understanding language, listen to what the doing, and
then how can you be creative at the end to
start thinking, this is this person I need to get
on board for me to be successful, whether as a
client or as a supplier or as a strategic partner.
(41:11):
I now understand what they need want designing, what the
key things are. How can I create something a solution
of products, a service that meekes their needs that's going
to create a win wind scenario that they're going to
buy into. That's the program, that's what it does, and
then you get access to it for a year so
you can do it, redo it because there's more activities
than you can do in the four months. So as
(41:32):
you and then you read, there's three key things you
end up with. One is your manifesto, which is what
your business, what you stand for, why, who you serve,
why you serve them, how you serve them from their perspective,
not yours. Second one is an evaluation of all the
relationships you have and the levels of trust and all
the evaluations their life documents you would you adapt in
(41:52):
a change and evolves as you go through the program.
And the last one is sort of like a user guide.
So if you're working with Scott, what's his user guide?
Because you buy it, you buy products, you get a
user guide how to get the best out of the product,
to get it to work people. I've done with that,
so you need to create one. So create a user
(42:14):
guide for the people you work with so that you
then know how. I'm going to change the word user
guy because I think that sounds too manipulative. But how
do you position yourself and your language and your products
or services or ideas with this person in a way
that's going to resonate with them and they're going to
probably say.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Yes, it's brilliant and so right. Finally, final question is
if anyone is listening in to the podcast and they think,
do you know what, I love Scott Hunter almost as
much as Jamie and Charlotte. How would they find you,
Scott and how can they get in touch with you?
Speaker 2 (42:51):
So you can go to the innovate crowd dot com,
but that will still talk about at the moment, it
will still talk about L and D, or they can
find me on the SCENEO hubs of course bound hub,
so I'm on there as well, and that's what and
LinkedIn so they're probably the three easiest. LinkedIn is probably
(43:13):
thesiest where you're seeing their bounds because the website is
just not doing anything. It's going to be sitting on
an entirely new platform.
Speaker 4 (43:21):
Kind of exciting.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
We'll talk to the guy now, so hopefully we can
start putting some content on in the next month or so.
Because what will happen is you're do an assessment as
well based on the on the model, and then that
assessment and then generate content that's linked to your score,
so your content will be different potentially to somebody else's
because it's quite interactive. Then yep. And then what you'll
do is as you do your bits and you'll say
(43:44):
you want to do this, and so people who have
been in the same positions of year has found this
content useful and they've marked that has to help them
achieve their goal. So there's a bit like when you
go to Amazon and so people similarly bought this and
they found that useful. So there's a whole around the
backside of it that or the could rephrase that around
the development a side of it that's actually going to
(44:07):
help create content for you to do in activities for
you too. That's related specifically to where you are as well.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
Well, we looking forward to we need to get you
back on a show of some description to talk all
about that when that's all launched. But that is all
we've got time for. It's been a phenomenal podcast. Just
quickly before we go, Scott, I know you do your
own podcast. Do you want to just tell the viewers
(44:38):
what it's called and where.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
They can find it?
Speaker 2 (44:41):
Yeah, so again they can find it on the hub. Absolutely,
So everything's on the Hub. The world life is there.
Find it on the Hub. It's called how Might We?
And I actually started talking to different people now. So
the last one I just record released was how Might
We Get Back to the Future with Leadership? With three guests,
which was the first for me. So a guy called
open And who's a retired general in the US and Army.
(45:03):
A guy called Dale who works one of the universities.
And guy called Jeff who has just about finish this
sixth book which will be published this year on Trust.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
Fantastic, fantastic.
Speaker 4 (45:16):
That sounds awesome.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
It's been absolutely brilliant from Charlotte and I we genuinely
when I say this, it's been absolutely brilliant. I'll be
back on the show and I love learning about you.
I love watching your journey, I love seeing where you're going,
and it's been great working with you. So thank you
so much for your time today and sharing your story
(45:37):
with us. And there's some real golden nuggets in there.
So from all of us, a massive thank you, and
have a lovely, lovely evening, and we'll see you right
back here next week for another episode of Business Entrepreneurs.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
Take Care.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
Goodbye,
Hello, and welcome back to Business for Entrepreneurs. We're every
week we are connecting a phenomenal expert with inside the
scene of Barns community talking about the business journey, and
this week is no different, but it is very special
because we are joined by the lovely Scott Hunter. Scott,
(00:23):
welcome to the show. It's so lovely to see you again.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I would say the same about you, young man.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
You won't, but you're not good.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I'll just leave it there.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Yeah, now, it is genuinely lovely.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
I feel like it's been ages since me and you
have actually kind of connected on any level because I
think we've just been so busy. But it is lovely
lovely to see you. Yeah, it's cool man, it's cool.
So right, this is this This podcast is literally all
about you. Know. You are a returning guest, which we
(00:57):
always love, but this time we want to hone in
on your history and is it a history to be
honed in on? Because you've got a phenomenal journey and
I don't really know where to start, so I'm going
to hand it over to you, right and I'm going
to say, look, where do you want this story to begin?
Because everything you've done every career choice, every job, every
(01:25):
experience you've had has all led you to this final
place where you are now running your own company, and
everything has led to that bank of knowledge that you
now use, which is phenomenal.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
So yeah, where do you want to start your story?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
I think the easiest place to start is the place
I learned so much, which is when I joined the
prison service at a ripe old age of twenty two.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah, I mean that's quite a young age, do you
know what I mean? Like, yeah, most people haven't even
left university.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
By that point. I wasn't intelligent enough to go to university,
so my options were limited.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
So that was it.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I did four years in the bank and hated it.
I used to work for Goes back of our Midland Bank.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Oh yeah, yeah, they're gone now. They don't even exist.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
They were brought out by Lloyd I think HSBC HSBC,
that's right, because then it became h BOSS HSBC board.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Anyway, we're digressive.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
But they there brought out Bank Scotland and became h
BOSS and then HBOS is brought up by Lloyd's TSP.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
So Middland no longer exists. It was taken over by HSBC.
When I work for them, So, okay, I think you
do with me. But I found when I was there
is I just found there's certain things that I just
didn't like. Didn't like the fact that they tried to
make your corporate so you had to say these things,
you had to do this thing, you had to be
a certain way. And what I really disliked was we
were given targets of things to sell, and I felt, well,
(02:53):
do you know that that's been driven by what the
company needs or what the organization wants, and not necessarily
by what the people I'm actually talking into one on need.
So I think that's when I started realizing that my
principles are much more driven by helping others and make
sure they get the right thing than what I'm being
told to do. So after four years, I left and
(03:13):
then worked for the Prison Service and I worked. I
did eighteen years. I worked all over the place, in
all of them. So I started off in a place
called down View, which is so I don't want to
go it's easy to drop into technical terms about what
it was, but it was a quite small prism, relatively
low security, sort of mid security, sort of the average
things only had a fence around. It didn't have a
(03:33):
big wall. After I was there at twenty two or
say so, very young, dealing with prisoners much older than me,
sometimes even older than my dad, and staff who'd been
in the job for a lot longer, learning from them,
and it was all about I found building relationships because
on an evening there might only be about twenty staff
(03:56):
on duty, but you've got three hundred prisoners unlocked.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
So you're looking at the way you can't utilize ORHI
is not it's not effective to utilize your authority to
get things done. It's very to me. I just thought
it was just unsustainable because as soon as they think
that's authority's gone or you're outnumbered or whatever it is,
in which we were most of the time, then what
have you got to fall back on if things start
(04:24):
going wobbly? What relationships you've got to fall back on?
What things you've got to fall back on to actually
get them back on track when you're talking to people.
So that's when I started to look at how you
connect with people. And we then went into the twelve
Step program. So we had charities coming in working the
twelve Step program for people on drugs so I learned
a little bit of hat drugs and what people did,
and learning how to work with people about supporting people
(04:47):
through stuff. From now, I went to Bell marsh on promotion.
So worked in a high security state for a few years.
Again different ballgame, but again still there was nine of
us on duty. There was two and two hundred and
twenty two hundred and fifty pers something like that unlocked.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
These are class These are Class A prisoners as well.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
They uh no, not where I worked, they almost had them,
I didn't. I The only time I worked with them
is if we took them away and escorts we took
them to court. So I might take them out to
when they were going to court, but they weren't on
the units I worked with. We were taking people straight
out of court. So day one of their prison sentence, right,
whether that be six months or fifteen years, we took
(05:27):
them all day one. You know, I worked on and
then I worked in visits and I worked other places,
so visits we used to come out of their visits.
So that was again dealing with members of the public
and prisoners as well. And how can you You've got
this big room of three hundred people in there, and
if it went it kicked off in someone like that,
you have members of the public in their children, residents
(05:48):
just just been mess So I think I really started
to work and develop the ability to actually influence prisoners
through effective communication and building them relationship and that trust
with them rather than using authority.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
M hm.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
I just don't think it works. It's just not constructive
for long term things that actually get people to do
what you would like them to do.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
And you and you look in at I mean, you're
in an organization, right and we're going to call it
an organization, not as it's not a prison. It's an
organization full of individuals that have rebelled against authority and
they generally don't play well with others, so you know,
(06:35):
it's it's it's a real collectic mix of people in there,
which is not that dissimilar to any company. I mean,
you've got to, you know, people learn to live with
each other, and these are generally people that have started
off on the back foot who don't generally know how
to live with other people.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah, there is that, And you've got the different things
that you've got the prisoners and then you've got the
staff as well. When the management processes around that. So
you were just about finding those balances and all the
different departments saying, oh we need people here, we need
this done, we need that. So the operational pressures as
well that you're under to get things done with certain timeframes.
So I went to bell March, then I left there
and went to work for young offenders. So eighteen to
(07:16):
twenty one in Royals. These were kids chips on the
shoulder and balanced by the chip on the other shoulder,
and how you can manage because again there are different
types of people, different personalities, and the techniques you use
with the adults, a lot of them wouldn't work with
kids because obviously you learn they're not as emotionally adept
at that age as they are when they're older. So
(07:37):
some of the rationale and the talking had to adapt,
and you had to change where you managed. It had
to change. It was much more volatile, much much more volatile,
much more about saving face.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
The irony that you said, then, I'm going to pin
in on it was you said I was working with
young offenders eighteen to twenty five, eighteen to twenty four,
and you said, you know these kids, working with kids,
and actually this was the age group that you joined
the prison service in in the first place. It was
two yeah, slightly, yeah, but you know you were you
(08:13):
were you were still in that age graft though. I mean,
you know, to think that actually, where these kids are becoming,
they're starting their career, or some of them not even starting,
but they're in their starting their career of adult crime,
is that the same age group is that you went
in to deflect and to learn and train. So it's
just it's just funny how the perception between it and
(08:36):
how I just found that concept really really interesting.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Actually, well because I was older by then, because I'd
already done. I was in my thirties by then. Yeah,
a year older. Art. You have got my own kids
who are righting up to start their teens and stuff.
So they weren't actually much younger than my kids. So
I suppose that's as your position in life changes, your
perception of where people are, everything how you reference them changes. Yeah.
(09:03):
So I did eighteen months there, two years, two years,
and then I went to work at Channing's Word and
worked in a sex offender unit.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
That must have been challenging. I mean, okay, the word
sex offender covers a whole spectrum right from you know,
child sex offense to adult sex offense to you know,
being in the wrong place at the wrong time. It
really does kind of that whole spectrum. But I mean
(09:31):
the skills that you had learned, they may have prepared
you for it, but they I mean, you had to
learn a whole new skill set for this this role.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Surely, Again, this is about how do you stay what
I learned a lot there is that Again, it's about
the principles. You have the values of principles, things that
are right and things that are wrong. And because of
to me, it doesn't really matter what the other person's
done there are they have things that they are entitled
to or should still happen as it's been able to
say been able to stop and control your own impulses
(10:00):
and say no, that's not the right thing to do,
or really starting to manage yourself and be much more
aware of where you are at that moment and are
you in the right place to have these conversations? Yeah,
you have some very very challenging conversations. Violence and dealing
with aggression is easy.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Yeah, yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Having a chat to somebody who's just talking about their
fence of using a five year old girl and you
have a five year old daughter at the same time,
is a little bit more challenging on the emotional level.
So it's how do you manage that emotional that emotional journey,
but still remain professional, still remain doing what you'll pay
to do. Still, they're about trying to rehabilitate these people
(10:41):
so they can get reintegrated back into society and not
do any more harm.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
How did that make you feel? Because if you're like
you said, if you because you know, sitting and talking
to somebody in a room where they talking about what
they've done, like that's just something that happened, you know,
because it must bring so many different emotions.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
And it's been aware of where you are in that
time and saying do you know what I said? I
remember one vividly. I was talking to somebody who was
talking to and I said, right, you've got to leave now.
He said, no, I haven't finished this. You have to leave.
He said why. I said, because I'm not in a
position very shortly. But we can carry on having this conversation. Wow,
And I suppose.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
It's being responsible to say I've got to call it
a day. Yeah, you've got to look after yourself as well, right.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Yeah, because it's about understanding where you are and actually
be able to sort of be aware of your own
emotions and what impact are you having on the people
that you're talking to to try and get the outcome
you're looking for.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Did you have it?
Speaker 4 (11:38):
You know, obviously there must be some support, but is
it a sort of big support system and training around
to get into that position in the first place or
not really?
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Not really, we were just told because they changed it.
So they said, as you as you're the manager of
the unit, you've got to You've got these people when
they come into the unit. It's your job and it
was normally done by psychologists, but they can and do
the evening. So we had to move when we receive
prisoners into the psychologists gone home, so it was down
to us and as the manager, it's my role. I said,
there's the form, there's a thing, fill it out, give
its psychology. In the morning, they have a chat with them.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Unbluebal I'm blue. So how long did you spend in
this environment?
Speaker 2 (12:17):
That was about eighteen months two years. Then I moved
to another unit that was working with the eight working
with people on serious drug issues. So these are the
people who are I mean they've been things like selling
their body for drugs. I mean serious, serious that off
the whales they've got Now they're on two to three
year rehab programs. This wasn't one of your twelve step ones.
(12:39):
This was a serious in there. So we were working
with the prisoners on this unit to say, how can
we run this prison, this unit in a way that's
going to help you manage your behaviors and learn more
socially responsible behaviors, but not in a way that's authoritarian
because you've never reacted well to that level of authoritarianism.
It doesn't biting system. And then we had the charity
(13:04):
who were running the program in there as well, so
we basically had to work as a tripartheit of leaders
management saying how can this work in this environment? How
can it work in the line of security of a
prison and rehabilitate these people in that way, but also
give them authority and give them some level of autonomy
and what's happening so they can relearn these social skills
and relearn that responsibility. And then with the charity who
(13:25):
had they had to deliver, so how could we function
as three different sets management, three different outcomes, sets of
pressures to create an environment that work for everybody.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
And something else you've mentioned there as well, which I'm
going to key in on it is you've used the
word environment and you know, people go working in the
prison service and okay, that's fine, or people saying you're
working in an office, Okay, that's fine. Or people say
you're working in a sharp and okay, that's fine. Every
way you work is a differentronment, and you are experiencing
(14:02):
probably some of the most extreme environments in unhostile or
you know, outside of war, right.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
You know that.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
I mean it's that experience. You know, then when you
start looking at like the retail world, where you have
different experiences and different environments, hostilities, pressures, the corporate world.
You know, you've got a small office or you've got
you know, a thousand people, and these these these kind
of the differences and everything in between. You know, your
your experiences within these worst case scenario environments. I mean,
(14:43):
you couldn't get a better foundation than that when you
then start effectively becoming an expert in that subject.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Right, Well, no, that's suppose support people with defer knowledge
and understanding than of what asppost because I only did
eighteen years, so those people have done much longer, possibly
to a deeper degree. But I think it's it was
unusual that I went around so much. Yeah, so I
went to different prisons and worked within those prisons. I
went to the different units.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
And is there a reason did you ask for it
or did or was it just the way it worked out?
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Just kind of the way it worked out life? So
moving around, So the good advantage of working on my
age because I want to move another part of the country,
Well it's prisons everywhere, so I'll move a transfer and
I'll go there. And also I always wanted to learn
and always wanted to develop, and if I got stuck
on one unit or one the air of too long,
I think there's only so much you can learn in
that area. So I wanted to stretch and challenge myself
(15:35):
all the time to carry on learning.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Well, you're now working in an environment that actually right
some people. This is a taboo area where it can
divide opinions. So for example, I actually have a lot
of empathy for people that are on abusive substances because
(15:58):
I often think about the journey that got them there,
you know, And there's different journeys and there's different stories,
and there's different reasons. And I'm not a drug user,
but surely empathy you'll have to. This is where you start.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
Integrating your empathy into this environment.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Right, I think it's yeah, empathy and people I think
people misunderstand what empathy means. To me. Empathy isn't I
agree with what this person's done. Empathy is just trying
to understand where this person's coming Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
That's same for me. That's exactly the same meaning for me.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Empathy, I think we misunder are you how can you
empathize with this person? So well, if I understand where
this person's come from, you can understand possibly why he's
doing what he's doing, but also you might be understanding
what he's trying to achieve, and if we can find
a positive way of achieving the same outcome, then you're
helping this person. And the same is in business. If
you ever look about what do you do in business?
Somebody's having an issue and you've got a solution. You're
(16:51):
trying to create solution that's going to help this person
get to where they go because what they're currently doing
just isn't working for them. Yeah, so you actually take
that context out of this person's substance abuse. I'm not
saying I was. I was. I'm a counselor and helping
people that substance abuse because counseling is an area I
wouldn't go to because I think you can do if
you don't know what you're doing, you can do some
serious damage to people. Anti yourself, absolutely, because there's a
(17:12):
lot of emotional spoken to people, helped people, being open
to people and communicat and all that sort of stuff.
But I think it's coming from a position of curiosity
with care. Yeah, so I really want to understand because
if we can understand, then you can move forward. So
then I went and say I did that for a
couple of years. Then I went to Dartmore the eighteen
months at Dartmore. So again it's got a reputation, and
(17:35):
then I went into National training.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Yeah. Form is quite notorious though, isn't It's quite a
notorious prison, right.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Yeah, it's just got reputation because what it used to
be used for. It used to be used to send
people there because if you've got lost in Dartmore, you
may never come out alive because it's just where it
is is not a nice place to get lost or
get stuck. So escaping from Dartmore was never going to
be a nice thing to plan because the wars are
quite unforgiving up in Princetown. It's not like that so much.
It's also was an old prison of war camp during
(18:04):
Napoleonic Wars.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Yeah, now that I knew as well.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
And American. I think it's also during the American Civil War.
And I think it's got Barbe right. I think it's
got an American cemetery there for people who died as
prisoners of war during the American Civil War.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Wow, you've just.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Round the corner. It's been there a long time. I
did some time there and then I moved on. In
my last state, I did four years as a national trainer,
and the areas I covered there was communication anti manipulation,
so helping staff understand what manipulation looks like so they
can get things to stop them being manipulated. Environment crisis
(18:45):
management and hoshe's negotiation.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
The anti manipulation thing's really easy because that happens, you know.
It's not just I think everybody could have that train
could do with that training, couldn't they? But obviously you're
in an environment and a lot a lot of these
people are masters of manipulation. They're you know, they've honed
in their skills of manipulating people to achieve what they
want to achieve over a long period of time. And
(19:10):
then you've got you know, innocent Scott coming in at
twenty two years old. I should imagine you'd have been
quite an easy subject for manipulation.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah, you around people you work with called Geilcraft to
sort of guide you at the beginning six twelve, eighteen,
two years of your service to actually learn sorts of skills.
So I think what I developed in that time and
gave me quite a unique understand is what makes people
tick and also how to influence people in a way
that is ethical. Yeah, that it is. It's going to
(19:44):
be their benefit as well as my benefit. And really
getting to understand what makes people tick, how people operate,
hostage negotiation, really listening to language, What does this person
actually want? Because what they say is not what they want?
But how can you find that out? What hooks do
people come out in conversations? Can I say something that's
not going to get a reaction from that person, it's
likely to get the victim hurt. How can you inquire?
(20:10):
So if you think about a lot of those skills
and you can just transferable into business and dealing with people.
So you work in environment as a leader, how can
you get your staff on board? How can they buy
into what you want to do? How can you influence
them to act or deliver a public service in a
way that's consistent with what you like. It's the ability
to influence without authority.
Speaker 4 (20:33):
It must be such a difficult sort of set of
skills that you need for negotiating when you know that
somebody else might actually be hurt if you're not getting
it right. So how do you get training for that?
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Well? I was the trainer, which is quite nice. So
they said you want to be a negotiator? I said, no, thanks,
I said, because I was there, I've I've seen in practice,
I've been involved in. I was just taking that live
actually a real one as where a prisoner took a
member of staff hostage. So I was, I was there
(21:09):
and I saw the processes and I saw what was
going on. I said, I understand it, but I don't
want to be the one standing at the moment. Also
because I'd left prison, I'd left operational in prison, so
I wasn't actually working in prison, so for me to
be an actual negotiator was not an option. But they said,
because of what you know and how you are and
your personality, would you like to learn about negotiation and
(21:31):
help develop And we never worked alone and we always
worked as with in line was like psychologists and bits
and pieces when we did the training, it was very interactive.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
I would say, it's incredible. So how long were you
in the training world in the prison service?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Four years?
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Four years?
Speaker 1 (21:53):
And again you know different environments, you know different people.
Now you're not working with prisoners, you just working with
officers coming into the trade or being upskilled in the industry.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
You know.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
So these people are now.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
On your wavelength almost right, But at the same time,
you're changing your approach on how you're dealing with them.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
You're changed.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
You're not negotiating with them anymore. You're you're teaching them
valuable skills that could potentially save their life or the
life of others around them, as well as not put
them or their family in a vulnerable position through manipulation.
What was it like working in that environment.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
I think having the experience go to that credibility. Yeah,
so I wasn't twenty two then just coming into the
job and say, rather, this is how you do it
because people just going what you're talking about. So having
done fourteen years already, I worked around and obviously you
just get to know people and then and I think
that's really what I fell in love with training and
(22:59):
working in that environment because I just again, it's about
helping other people. So it's about I'm helping somebody, as
you say, not get them hurt so they can go
home and their families are going to be safe and
the environments can be safe and they're not putting their
career on the line because they get into a situation
they shouldn't have got into. Or helping governance make decisions
(23:20):
in crisises that are going to be the decisions that
are most likely to have a positive outcome, So how
to we manage a crisis and effectively even that's different
communication styles as well. I used to do so the
people on the radio. So every Joel's got radio internal
radio systems, So I used to teach the radio operators
how to function, how to do that and communicate effectively
(23:42):
and get messages over in a way that was easy
to understand, and within processes and deal with situations as
they arose. So there was quite a lot of overlap
between the sort of stuff I did and then I
left there about eleven years ago.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
It's really funny, Sorry, Sha, you've brought up a another
significant word that I picked out. Communication And this is
your environment that you work in now because in most places,
and ours included, right, our business included, one of the
biggest demons you face is miscommunication.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
And we've gone through and we where one of us
has said something or we haven't said something right, or
we've said one thing meant another, or we've written something
down and it's come across wrong, or the message has
gone out, or I'm trying to understand a graffiti wall
of a diary. And this is where you are now, right,
this is the environment that you are now working at.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
And how long have you been in this environment?
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Call about eleven? Well, the actual company I'm doing this
is about eighteen months or two years old now, which
is the innofoke Crowd. Yeah, and that's developing a program
to help small business owners or leaders create that trust
in their environment so they can influence And a lot
of what we talk around is about that awareness of ourselves,
(25:04):
the awareness of our communication, the awareness of the impact
of what we say and do has on how people
perceive and interact with us. So one of the things
I say is nobody makes you do anything. Everything you
do is a choice. Every word you speak, every word
you write is a choice. But do you really think
about the impact of those choices and the words you're
(25:25):
taking or saying. Is it appropriate to the environment you're in.
How are you reading the impact of what you say
on the audience at that moment, so you can then
recalibrate what you're saying, how you're saying it to be effective.
Thinking about because there's really three things we have in
business that are important to us is relationships, reputation, and revenue. Yeah,
(25:48):
three key things for a business to do. If you
don't have trust and don't understand the impact you have
around others, chances is your reputation will be damaged. You
won't be able to build relationshipship which have a negative
impact on your ability to generate revenue, whether that's through
a nonprofit or an organization with that revenue with dead.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
So it's so true. It's absolutely, so so so true.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
And I mean, you know many there's many anagrams and
mottos around trust, you know, like no like and trust
people buy from people, you know, these are these are massive.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Subjects. What is your your niche? What what?
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Where do you I mean, look, I know that you
can work with anyone from you know, a small business
right up to you know, NASA if you really wanted to.
But where do you like working? Where's your where's your
sweet spot? Who are the people that you really like
engaging with?
Speaker 2 (26:51):
I think it's two, I think, and it's the way
the program is going to be developed is going to
allow it to happen on two levels. So the first
one is people like me, you know, just getting out there,
trying to make a difference, trying to do something on
their own, and just wanting to understand how they can
communicate more effectively, build those relationship, really understand what they're
(27:13):
doing and the impact on their environment so they can
have a much more positive impact on those around them
and by then hopefully their business. So those so solopreneurs
and people like that. So that's one of the reasons
this is, by the way, it's not sales pitch. But
one of the reasons is it is going to be
quite automated the process, but is also going to be
(27:33):
very accessible. Yeah, very accessible. Then the other one is
to work with seeing managers in a small or medium
sized company so that I could work with them and
then you give the tools about how they can then
use those tools with their teams. Yeah, so things like
helping managers really reconnect with the purpose and the values
(27:56):
of a business and then understands give them some tools
that they can then manage some of their emotional responses
in line with those values.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
Because this is something that a lot of companies fail
to achieve. Right they promote people right.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
On the job interview or you know, and they've said
the right thing at the right time, or they've been
there the right amount of time, or they have plenty
of knowledge in that particular area of the business, but
then very rarely people are actually trained on how to
manage people. You know, I'm not an engineers phenomenal engineers,
(28:33):
and then they get put into management roles and they
know what they're doing because they're not a manager, they're
an engineer, and they've had no training on how to
manage and this is this is something that you offer,
isn't it?
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Yeah? And different I thinking what I do in the
buying and sort of sending somebody on a traditional leadership
development programs leadershipment program and have things like what's different
to leadership and management? What's this? What's that's? What's this?
My mum will up with why are you a manager?
M what's your purpose? What do you stand for that's
(29:08):
important to you? They're asking things like, okay, then how
are you responding in a way that's aligned to that?
And here are some tools to help you?
Speaker 4 (29:18):
This is This is so common practice when it comes
to solopreneurs as well, because they often have a great idea,
but they might have always been managed themselves. So when
it actually comes to managing the business or being able
to promote what they do in a correct language can
be so so difficult, I think because they just think
(29:39):
that everyone is going to understand what's become their business
and their baby. And I think a lot of people
I don't want to hear your aspect of that, because
do you find that a lot of people sometimes kind
of get lost with that language and communication.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Absolutely, it's because especially if we're an expert at what
we're selling. Then we have a language around what we're
selling that the people we're saying too aren't experts or
else they would be buying from us. Yeah, so quite
often it's about finding And again that's if so one
of the activities is called language detective. So basically, as
you go about your day to day, probably not today,
(30:14):
probably tomorrow, as you're inviting into conversation of conversations with people,
listen to the words what motivational words or emotive words
can you hear that person say? And when I talk
about emotions, when somebody's describing emotions, they might talk about
this frustrated me, I was angry to did it? So
it gives you something to so what emotions is this
(30:35):
person demonstrating this time in this conversation. Because if they're
demonstrating in their language emotions that are not going to
be favoral for your conversation, why you continue trying to
have that conversation with them? They're not in the right place.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
We spent a lot of time not talking.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
But also then you can think about where emotional states
are they so you can actually gauge them. But also
then you can start what motivational words are they using,
what motives they're talking about? Are they talking about something
they want to achieve, something they want to avoid. When
they're talking about something and you ask them how things
are going, what's the first thing they mentioned regularly, because
that tends to be the thing that's the most important
to them, because it's the first thing they talk about.
(31:14):
If they give you a list of five or six things,
the first couple of the most important, what word do
they regularly repeat when they're talking about something? And that's
an area of concern. So even just by listening for
that sort of repetition of language, listen to the emotive
or motivational language people say. They throw out hooks all
the time in our communication. From that, you can then
(31:36):
build a really deep understanding of that individual, And if
that's a potential client, next time I talk to them,
I now know what language they resonate with, So I
want my language to resonate roughly the same as theirs.
I know what things they're trying to achieve and what
things are important to them. So how does my thing
help them? What's important to them? How does it link
to their whatever they're trying to achieve or avoids because
(31:57):
people tend to want to achieve something or avoid something
that motivates every single behavior we do. It's never the
same with people, So we're not complicated with complex Listen,
language helps us unpick some of that complexity. Then we
can simplify it into our communication. When we're talking to
somebody and we are now aligned with what they want
(32:17):
and need in language they understand, chances are they going
to be on board you a lot easier.
Speaker 4 (32:22):
This is a really good method to put it into practice.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
You can do this to yourself as well.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
They're right with a whiteboard, you know, you could ask
yourself these questions and then just write down the answers
and you're looking right at yourself. Then you're looking at
a mirror vision of yourself.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
And well you can just yeah, what language do I use?
If somebody says to me, what's how do I answer
that email? And just start looking at the communication, what's
the thing this person says? Another tip if you're looking
at where you are in relationship wise, because trust there's
a massive emotional impact on trust. How transaction that conversations
you're having with somebody, if it's purely transaction or your
(32:56):
trust levels are low, So don't try and go into
something because they don't trust him enough yet, and they're
signaling that in their communication with you. If you don't
listen to that, jump in too quick and do some
damage that relationship. But if it's still transaction or then
drop in some emotional language into that and see how
that responds, then you're gauging where that person is. So
(33:18):
you're just dropping in and seeing what's the reaction I'm
going to get from that.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
You look very good at that.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
You're very good at saying and then pausing, saying and
then pausing, and you notice anyone listening in, you'll know that.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
That's something that you do. You you say something and
then you wait for the answer, or you'll say something
you wait for the reaction. I'm actually not that good
at that. It is not my forte. I tend to say.
I tend to be more conversational and hope I'm very
lucky where I can generally pick stuff out.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
But what someone going into business, what or even they're
in business, what top tips from a business perspective could
you give them to make them a more motivational person
within their own company.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
I think the first thing really is assess why they're
in business and be clear about what is it you're
trying to achieve, because then at least what you've now
got is a north staff on which then to look at,
how do I achieve that there's this align with what
I've got. So you've got something to do and there's
several tips around it, so you can do. You go
(34:27):
to any business coach, they're going to ask you to
do this. So it's way in business, build up an
avatar who's your customer for? Because we tend to start
with the product and we get an idea, go into
business and think how the hell am I going to
sell this thing? Who's it for? And that's a journey
in itself, and I've been on that journey for the
last eighteen months or two years trying to hone develop
ideal idea and think about where it is. But if
(34:49):
you start from internally, then everything is driven by what's
inside and that's a lot easier to stay true to. Yeah,
So I think having that and staying true to me,
clear about it, and then that's sort of the stuff
that's important to you and that will help drive you.
And then when you talk to people, they'll see that
come out in your conversation about what you're trying to
(35:09):
achieve and what you're doing as a Daniel Pink wrote
this book called Drive, and when he wrote it, he
talks about purpose, but he talks about purpose as a
big peek changing the world type of purpose. But he
said afterwards and a few years after he wrote the book,
so if you rewrite the book, he would have a
small P and a question to ask somebody, what is
(35:29):
the contribution you want to make? So I don't think
about the big P about the simonsonic why, because that
can sometimes blow our minds. Yeah, what's the contribution you
want to make? That's a much easier question to sort
of get our head around. I'm not trying to change
the world. Here, be nice if I could, but I'm
not trying to. But what contribution do you want to make?
Speaker 1 (35:49):
That's a really, really top tier and I think everyone
needs to think about that when they're going into business.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Right.
Speaker 4 (35:55):
I think it's important to have to take time out
because I think it might change. Like you were saying,
you've been on the journey for eighteen months, and I
think you as to develop as a business, it's really
important to step out of that sometimes and rethink about
how it's how you're contributing and how it's changed, and
what your purpose might be for the next sort of year,
(36:19):
or you know, building a.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Plan and don't ignore what lands on your doorstep. You
might have an idea, but you've got something that another
audience loves. Yeah, yeah, suddenly I thought I was wanted
to help them, but these people really love what I'm
trying to do. So that is so you might fall
into that sort of audience and that sort of area.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
So yeah, I've seen that as well.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
I've seen that a few times, especially around the bicycle
industry and the disability wheelchair user. There's a lot of
crossover and the same believe or not, with the world
of buggies and then the world of wheelchairs. You know,
things that clip on and they bags and all the
(37:01):
same stuff. They're very, very similar, and I've seen companies
that have fallen into those kind of I started off here,
and actually I can adapt my product and it can
be just as useful over here. A matter of fact,
it can be. There's more of a want over here
as well. So that's that is super interesting. Right, We've
got to draw the show to an end because literally, Scott,
(37:22):
I could talk to you all day. I find you
one of the most fascinating human beings on earth. Right,
So if you were going to you know, if you
were going to say to someone, right, uh, this is this,
this is this is where I am. This is the
type of thing that I offer. This is what you know.
This is your sales pitch kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
Right, what what would you how what is.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Your sixty seconds? What is your sales pitch? What is
it that you actually offer businesses? And how can they
find out more about that?
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Well, it's an AWFICA bit because it's in the process
of being redone because we're going to put it on
your whole new platform. So it has been adaptive from
the last time when I was going to work with
learning and development professionals. Yeah, and then I said, you know,
after talking to people, they just said, no, this is leadership.
So basically what I help people do is build trust
based influence so they can create relationships, improve their reputation,
(38:17):
and increase revenue. That over a period of time. So
it's usually a three to four month program. It can
be helped assisted by me, or they can do it
on their own with because I use activis. I think
one of the difference is I give people the tools
to do it. Yeah, so I give people like that
thing about that game, I'll talk to you about the
(38:38):
language detective. They get that do that for a week,
talk to different people, and in that program, what they
do is they really explore their purpose. What do I
want to be in business for? What do we recognized for?
Where do I want to see myself in three years?
But done in a slightly different way to a business plan,
because you get asked these questions a lot, and I
(39:01):
found them quite difficult to do. So I try to
find a way that's easier for people to understand those
questions and rephrase them in a way that resonates with
people in an easier way sort of activity. So it's
not all business speak.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
So instead of using values, I just say what's what's
important to you? What principles do you want to live by?
Because you talk about values, again, it's a language that
some people understand, some people don't. Most people understand principles.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
I've got to hang up the other day about strategy.
Someone said to me, you need a strategy.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Everyone has to have a strategy, and there's all these
strategies and I'm like, I don't even know what a
strategy looks like.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
It's a plan.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Yeah, and that's but that's exactly what how it was
worded to me. It's like, yeah, but okay, so what
is it that you that you're doing it and why
are you doing it?
Speaker 3 (39:41):
And how are you getting it there? That that's the
strategy and I was like, well, that makes perfect strategy.
It's like everyone, everyone, you've gotta have a strategy. And
I'm like, I don't have strategies. I don't understand what
they're all about.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
So if we start with that and then we go
into trust, because I think, I'm sorry, I know that.
So trust is multi dimensional because you and trust somebody
with your car keys might not trust them with the project. See.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
I said that one somewhere as well, and I said,
isn't it true that you can trust that there's different
levels of trust and you can trust someone with your car,
but it might not trust them with your children.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
It didn't go down well in a room for the people.
They all thought they all thought that I was a
bit on, But.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
I don't think i'd use trust for children, probably because
of my background and where I used to work.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
Yeah, I had a great point, right, but.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Yeah, the point was there, But again understand the audience
and our communication is another way. Yeah, So it's that
when you evaluate your relationships are important to you for
you to be successful in your business and what level
of trust are they and what I mentioned? And then
how can you build total trust which is on all
of it. So how can you begain to trust them
and how can they start to trust you? So you
evaluate that. The last bit is impact. So then how
(40:49):
do you identify who your key stakeholders are, who is
important to you and your business to be successful internally
and or externally. Then how do you get to understand
them at a deeper, deeper level, which is around that
sort of understanding language, listen to what the doing, and
then how can you be creative at the end to
start thinking, this is this person I need to get
on board for me to be successful, whether as a
client or as a supplier or as a strategic partner.
(41:11):
I now understand what they need want designing, what the
key things are. How can I create something a solution
of products, a service that meekes their needs that's going
to create a win wind scenario that they're going to
buy into. That's the program, that's what it does, and
then you get access to it for a year so
you can do it, redo it because there's more activities
than you can do in the four months. So as
(41:32):
you and then you read, there's three key things you
end up with. One is your manifesto, which is what
your business, what you stand for, why, who you serve,
why you serve them, how you serve them from their perspective,
not yours. Second one is an evaluation of all the
relationships you have and the levels of trust and all
the evaluations their life documents you would you adapt in
(41:52):
a change and evolves as you go through the program.
And the last one is sort of like a user guide.
So if you're working with Scott, what's his user guide?
Because you buy it, you buy products, you get a
user guide how to get the best out of the product,
to get it to work people. I've done with that,
so you need to create one. So create a user
(42:14):
guide for the people you work with so that you
then know how. I'm going to change the word user
guy because I think that sounds too manipulative. But how
do you position yourself and your language and your products
or services or ideas with this person in a way
that's going to resonate with them and they're going to
probably say.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Yes, it's brilliant and so right. Finally, final question is
if anyone is listening in to the podcast and they think,
do you know what, I love Scott Hunter almost as
much as Jamie and Charlotte. How would they find you,
Scott and how can they get in touch with you?
Speaker 2 (42:51):
So you can go to the innovate crowd dot com,
but that will still talk about at the moment, it
will still talk about L and D, or they can
find me on the SCENEO hubs of course bound hub,
so I'm on there as well, and that's what and
LinkedIn so they're probably the three easiest. LinkedIn is probably
(43:13):
thesiest where you're seeing their bounds because the website is
just not doing anything. It's going to be sitting on
an entirely new platform.
Speaker 4 (43:21):
Kind of exciting.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
We'll talk to the guy now, so hopefully we can
start putting some content on in the next month or so.
Because what will happen is you're do an assessment as
well based on the on the model, and then that
assessment and then generate content that's linked to your score,
so your content will be different potentially to somebody else's
because it's quite interactive. Then yep. And then what you'll
do is as you do your bits and you'll say
(43:44):
you want to do this, and so people who have
been in the same positions of year has found this
content useful and they've marked that has to help them
achieve their goal. So there's a bit like when you
go to Amazon and so people similarly bought this and
they found that useful. So there's a whole around the
backside of it that or the could rephrase that around
the development a side of it that's actually going to
(44:07):
help create content for you to do in activities for
you too. That's related specifically to where you are as well.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
Well, we looking forward to we need to get you
back on a show of some description to talk all
about that when that's all launched. But that is all
we've got time for. It's been a phenomenal podcast. Just
quickly before we go, Scott, I know you do your
own podcast. Do you want to just tell the viewers
(44:38):
what it's called and where.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
They can find it?
Speaker 2 (44:41):
Yeah, so again they can find it on the hub. Absolutely,
So everything's on the Hub. The world life is there.
Find it on the Hub. It's called how Might We?
And I actually started talking to different people now. So
the last one I just record released was how Might
We Get Back to the Future with Leadership? With three guests,
which was the first for me. So a guy called
open And who's a retired general in the US and Army.
(45:03):
A guy called Dale who works one of the universities.
And guy called Jeff who has just about finish this
sixth book which will be published this year on Trust.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
Fantastic, fantastic.
Speaker 4 (45:16):
That sounds awesome.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
It's been absolutely brilliant from Charlotte and I we genuinely
when I say this, it's been absolutely brilliant. I'll be
back on the show and I love learning about you.
I love watching your journey, I love seeing where you're going,
and it's been great working with you. So thank you
so much for your time today and sharing your story
(45:37):
with us. And there's some real golden nuggets in there.
So from all of us, a massive thank you, and
have a lovely, lovely evening, and we'll see you right
back here next week for another episode of Business Entrepreneurs.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
Take Care.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
Goodbye,
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