March 21, 2025 • 9 mins
Even leaders lose jobs! What to do after you get laid off? Jennifer Sherman, Leadership Expert , CEO at Envision Leadership Consultancy shares timely tips and advice. She believes Leaders are Shaped not Born. https://envisionleaders.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/envisionconsulting
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
I'm Tom Ruyo, promoting successful business experts connecting people throughout
the world from my podcast studio in Brazil. Joining us
today from Carrie North, Carolina. Jennifer Sherman, CEO leadership expert
at Envision Leadership Consulting. Great leaders are shaped, not born, So, Jennifer,
even leaders lose jobs. What to do after you get
(00:29):
laid off?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Yeah, I'm so glad you're asking this question, Tom, because
I know here in the States there are so many
people experiencing this right now, there's been reduction in force
across so many industries, and you know, I.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Think it's a really daunting experience.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
So there's a couple of pieces of advice that I
give to people who are dealing with that. The first
are really managing kind of the emotional side of getting
laid off, you know.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
First, it's just allowing yourself to grieve the loss.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
We tie a lot of our identity into our work,
right It's where we spend most of our waking hours,
and we build our work families. We've got, you know,
friendships that we tie to work, and we tie a
lot of our value to our success. And so getting
laid off can feel like you're a bit adrift, so,
(01:22):
you know, allowing yourself to go through that process and
not feel bad about, you know, grieving that loss. The
second piece of advice, though, is not to get stuck there,
to allow yourself to feel all the feelings and.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Move on, right, get up and go well.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Move on and help yourself move on. And so one
of the things I do often as a coach, regardless
of who I'm working with, you know, all the way
up through the c suite is.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Work on mindset.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
And when we experience tough things, our mind creates a
narrative around it.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
And so you can.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Imagine getting laid off what people's narrative might be.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Right.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
It can be really negative.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
It can be fear based things like you know, how
am I going to get another job? Or clearly I'm
not good at what I do, or you know, I'm
too old, no one's going to.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Hire for me.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Right, All the scary, scary thoughts come right to the surface,
and those are totally normal and human.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
But you don't want to.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Let them sit there and take over, because they can
keep you stuck, They can keep you from moving forward,
They can keep you feeling insecure, which you can impact
you know.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
How you well to that point, Should we think about
being laid off before we get fired or before we
get laid off?
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Should we think about it? Was that your question?
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Because we wake up in the emotions hit. But if
we ever think about it before and plan for it,
maybe it's not that much of a shock.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Yeah, I mean that's a great point.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
I mean, I think you don't want to spend too
much time living in fear, but I think you can
be practical in today's environment to say, hey, listen, anything
could happen, right, and how do I best stay ready
for the unexpected?
Speaker 3 (03:00):
So I think people can do that. You know. One
of the things that I work with a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Who've been laid off on is kind of taking stock
of where they are and where they want to go,
because it's not you know, when we're in our jobs,
we really don't think about the value we bring, what
kind of expertise we have, what we're passionate about, what
kind of environment we're in. We're just in it and
we're not really thinking about those things. So taking the job, yeah,
(03:29):
it's just part of the job. But I think, you know,
a lot of people stay.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
In jobs they don't like, right, that's true, and.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
So even though getting laid off can be very traumatic,
it also is an opportunity for a fresh start in
a new direction.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
And I don't know about you, but I've found in
my life.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
That some of the hardest things I've been through have
been the things that have pushed me in a direction
that has been life changing. Mean, the work that I
do wouldn't I wouldn't be doing it if I wasn't
in the midst of some really hard things at the time.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Not true. And I think the hard things make for
a softer life.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Yeah, yeah, So I think you can.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
I think you can try to mentally be prepared, but
you don't want to live and fear like at any
moment I'm going to get laid off, because that can
be kind of unmotivating. But I think you can be practical,
and so, you know, I think that a good next
step after you've been laid off is to assess those
things and take a fresh set of eyes on yourself.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
And also take an objective look at yourself, because.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
People are not really good at looking at their strengths
right and their expertise. We're more hard on ourselves than
we are celebratory of ourselves. So taking a hard look
at those things, taking a good look at those things,
getting them on paper, and that's going to help you
get clarity on maybe what you want to do next,
because one of the mistakes I see is people will
(04:51):
kind of jump the gun and immediately go out and
start talking to people, but they don't.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Know what they want to ask for. So you want
to live.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Your network, but you want to be ready. You want
to you want to make it easy for people to
help you. So I say, there's like a little due
diligence period where you get clear on what value you bring,
what you really want, so that when you do have
those you know, virtual coffees or you take someone a
lunch or whatever it is, you are clear in your
ask so that someone is more able to be helpful
(05:22):
to you.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Well, I say, I'm again looking at your site where
you do say great leaders are shaped and not born.
So we have to keep shaping ourselves. We're not We're
not a piece of stone.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Correct, I mean, we are all always learning, and you know,
every opportunity is a chance to grow, you know, especially
the hard ones. I mean, we usually grow the most
from those, right, We learn a lot about ourselves and
you know, we just got to find our grit and
move forward and those can often bring you know, the
best outcomes. And so I think it's stay curious, make
(05:57):
sure you keep your confidence up, that you don't let
this kind of gets you in a state of fear
and insecurity, and that you also put some structure.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Around your your search, your progress.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Because the other thing is after getting laid off, for
some people it's like you're home for the first time
in a long time.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
You can get a little lost. So making some commitments
around you know, maybe normal.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
In my past. Anyway, the pink slip came out on
a Monday, and then you had the whole week to
fuddel through. But today every day is a layoff day.
You know, on a Friday, you might be looking forward,
you might have been looking forward to a week and
that might change radically and by the end of your
afternoon wherever that is. And that's not only being laid off.
And in today's world, many companies are merging, they're at out,
(06:47):
they're being taken over, they're being sold out, whatever, So
that laid off could be part of another movement and
not necessarily focused on you as a person.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I think a lot of the layoffs and I think
you know that's what I'm saying, watch your narrative, because
really smart, talented, amazing.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
People get laid off. You're not laid off because you're
a failure or you're bad at your job.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
A lot of the reductions in force are becoming are
happening because of cuts or mergers or you know, things
happening in the economy.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
So it's not a reflection of you and your capability.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
But you have to remind yourself of that because it's
really easy to believe otherwise.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Well, I guess back to what you said at the
beginning emotions.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Right, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
And then not being stuck. Well, anyway, Jennifer, how can
our listeners find you?
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Well, I'm on LinkedIn under Jennifer Emeric Sherman, or you can.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Find me at envision leaders dot com.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
And yeah, I mean, my passion is helping people grow
and supporting leaders because leading is hard, and also helping
people navigate things like what we're talking about, you know
how having these career changes or tough uh you know,
kind of forks in the road, right you need to
you know, well.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Anyway, in today's world, you help people anywhere in the world, right,
I do, so it doesn't have to be just in Carrie,
North Carolina.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Now I work with clients all over the world, from
Fortune five hundred companies to small startups so and working
with individuals going through career change. So I work in
a multitude of ways and happy to help people from wherever.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Very good, Well, thanks again for being here.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Thanks for having me Tom, I really appreciate.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
It, and for our listeners again. You can find Jennifer
Sherman's j E n n I f e R the
last name s h e R m A N, she said.
You'll find her on LinkedIn and at envisions envision leaders
dot com and vision Leaders dot com. Cafe and Networking
is breadtors By focus at my market intelligence and agricultural
(08:55):
market research specialists in Brazil. More information at foc U
s m I dot com. Talk to Tom, talk to
the world. Thanks for listening. Until the next time here
at cafet and Networking podcast
I'm Tom Ruyo, promoting successful business experts connecting people throughout
the world from my podcast studio in Brazil. Joining us
today from Carrie North, Carolina. Jennifer Sherman, CEO leadership expert
at Envision Leadership Consulting. Great leaders are shaped, not born, So, Jennifer,
even leaders lose jobs. What to do after you get
(00:29):
laid off?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Yeah, I'm so glad you're asking this question, Tom, because
I know here in the States there are so many
people experiencing this right now, there's been reduction in force
across so many industries, and you know, I.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Think it's a really daunting experience.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
So there's a couple of pieces of advice that I
give to people who are dealing with that. The first
are really managing kind of the emotional side of getting
laid off, you know.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
First, it's just allowing yourself to grieve the loss.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
We tie a lot of our identity into our work,
right It's where we spend most of our waking hours,
and we build our work families. We've got, you know,
friendships that we tie to work, and we tie a
lot of our value to our success. And so getting
laid off can feel like you're a bit adrift, so,
(01:22):
you know, allowing yourself to go through that process and
not feel bad about, you know, grieving that loss. The
second piece of advice, though, is not to get stuck there,
to allow yourself to feel all the feelings and.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Move on, right, get up and go well.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Move on and help yourself move on. And so one
of the things I do often as a coach, regardless
of who I'm working with, you know, all the way
up through the c suite is.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Work on mindset.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
And when we experience tough things, our mind creates a
narrative around it.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
And so you can.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Imagine getting laid off what people's narrative might be.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Right.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
It can be really negative.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
It can be fear based things like you know, how
am I going to get another job? Or clearly I'm
not good at what I do, or you know, I'm
too old, no one's going to.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Hire for me.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Right, All the scary, scary thoughts come right to the surface,
and those are totally normal and human.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
But you don't want to.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Let them sit there and take over, because they can
keep you stuck, They can keep you from moving forward,
They can keep you feeling insecure, which you can impact
you know.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
How you well to that point, Should we think about
being laid off before we get fired or before we
get laid off?
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Should we think about it? Was that your question?
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Because we wake up in the emotions hit. But if
we ever think about it before and plan for it,
maybe it's not that much of a shock.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Yeah, I mean that's a great point.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
I mean, I think you don't want to spend too
much time living in fear, but I think you can
be practical in today's environment to say, hey, listen, anything
could happen, right, and how do I best stay ready
for the unexpected?
Speaker 3 (03:00):
So I think people can do that. You know. One
of the things that I work with a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Who've been laid off on is kind of taking stock
of where they are and where they want to go,
because it's not you know, when we're in our jobs,
we really don't think about the value we bring, what
kind of expertise we have, what we're passionate about, what
kind of environment we're in. We're just in it and
we're not really thinking about those things. So taking the job, yeah,
(03:29):
it's just part of the job. But I think, you know,
a lot of people stay.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
In jobs they don't like, right, that's true, and.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
So even though getting laid off can be very traumatic,
it also is an opportunity for a fresh start in
a new direction.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
And I don't know about you, but I've found in
my life.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
That some of the hardest things I've been through have
been the things that have pushed me in a direction
that has been life changing. Mean, the work that I
do wouldn't I wouldn't be doing it if I wasn't
in the midst of some really hard things at the time.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Not true. And I think the hard things make for
a softer life.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Yeah, yeah, So I think you can.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
I think you can try to mentally be prepared, but
you don't want to live and fear like at any
moment I'm going to get laid off, because that can
be kind of unmotivating. But I think you can be practical,
and so, you know, I think that a good next
step after you've been laid off is to assess those
things and take a fresh set of eyes on yourself.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
And also take an objective look at yourself, because.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
People are not really good at looking at their strengths
right and their expertise. We're more hard on ourselves than
we are celebratory of ourselves. So taking a hard look
at those things, taking a good look at those things,
getting them on paper, and that's going to help you
get clarity on maybe what you want to do next,
because one of the mistakes I see is people will
(04:51):
kind of jump the gun and immediately go out and
start talking to people, but they don't.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Know what they want to ask for. So you want
to live.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Your network, but you want to be ready. You want
to you want to make it easy for people to
help you. So I say, there's like a little due
diligence period where you get clear on what value you bring,
what you really want, so that when you do have
those you know, virtual coffees or you take someone a
lunch or whatever it is, you are clear in your
ask so that someone is more able to be helpful
(05:22):
to you.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Well, I say, I'm again looking at your site where
you do say great leaders are shaped and not born.
So we have to keep shaping ourselves. We're not We're
not a piece of stone.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Correct, I mean, we are all always learning, and you know,
every opportunity is a chance to grow, you know, especially
the hard ones. I mean, we usually grow the most
from those, right, We learn a lot about ourselves and
you know, we just got to find our grit and
move forward and those can often bring you know, the
best outcomes. And so I think it's stay curious, make
(05:57):
sure you keep your confidence up, that you don't let
this kind of gets you in a state of fear
and insecurity, and that you also put some structure.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Around your your search, your progress.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Because the other thing is after getting laid off, for
some people it's like you're home for the first time
in a long time.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
You can get a little lost. So making some commitments
around you know, maybe normal.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
In my past. Anyway, the pink slip came out on
a Monday, and then you had the whole week to
fuddel through. But today every day is a layoff day.
You know, on a Friday, you might be looking forward,
you might have been looking forward to a week and
that might change radically and by the end of your
afternoon wherever that is. And that's not only being laid off.
And in today's world, many companies are merging, they're at out,
(06:47):
they're being taken over, they're being sold out, whatever, So
that laid off could be part of another movement and
not necessarily focused on you as a person.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I think a lot of the layoffs and I think
you know that's what I'm saying, watch your narrative, because
really smart, talented, amazing.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
People get laid off. You're not laid off because you're
a failure or you're bad at your job.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
A lot of the reductions in force are becoming are
happening because of cuts or mergers or you know, things
happening in the economy.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
So it's not a reflection of you and your capability.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
But you have to remind yourself of that because it's
really easy to believe otherwise.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Well, I guess back to what you said at the
beginning emotions.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Right, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
And then not being stuck. Well, anyway, Jennifer, how can
our listeners find you?
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Well, I'm on LinkedIn under Jennifer Emeric Sherman, or you can.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Find me at envision leaders dot com.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
And yeah, I mean, my passion is helping people grow
and supporting leaders because leading is hard, and also helping
people navigate things like what we're talking about, you know
how having these career changes or tough uh you know,
kind of forks in the road, right you need to
you know, well.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Anyway, in today's world, you help people anywhere in the world, right,
I do, so it doesn't have to be just in Carrie,
North Carolina.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Now I work with clients all over the world, from
Fortune five hundred companies to small startups so and working
with individuals going through career change. So I work in
a multitude of ways and happy to help people from wherever.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Very good, Well, thanks again for being here.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Thanks for having me Tom, I really appreciate.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
It, and for our listeners again. You can find Jennifer
Sherman's j E n n I f e R the
last name s h e R m A N, she said.
You'll find her on LinkedIn and at envisions envision leaders
dot com and vision Leaders dot com. Cafe and Networking
is breadtors By focus at my market intelligence and agricultural
(08:55):
market research specialists in Brazil. More information at foc U
s m I dot com. Talk to Tom, talk to
the world. Thanks for listening. Until the next time here
at cafet and Networking podcast
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