Clemency in California

We share information about the clemency process in California including pardons, commutations and reprieves; as well as details about several cases where clemency was granted.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Dark Cast Network. The light shinesbrightest on our indie podcasts. During our
three seasons, we've covered some ofthe worst crimes to occur in California,
and in doing so, we've learneda lot about California history, California laws,
and the experiences of victims. Butmany of the crimes we've covered are
also rare and not representative of thecriminal justice system as a whole. In

(00:23):
this discussion episode of California True Crime, we take a different look at crime
in our state by covering the clemencyprocess and highlighting a few cases of those
convicted of crimes who have, accordingto our laws in California, been rehabilitated.

(01:06):
Welcome to this episode of California TrueCrime. My name is Jessica.
As I said, this will bea discussion episode, and we're going to
be discussing and sharing information regarding clemencyin the state of California. Clemency in
general means a reprieve or leniency,and it comes in three forms here in
California, in the form of pardons, commutations, and reprieves. And we

(01:27):
got the idea to do this episodeafter reading an article from July of twenty
and twenty two when our Governor GavinNewsom granted clemency for some people in the
form of seventeen pardons, fifteen commutations, and one medical reprieve. So we
just wanted to talk about it,give some information and cover crime in California

(01:48):
from a different perspective and with meare Sean and Charles? How are you?
Sean, I'm doing good tonight?How are you? I'm good?
And Charles, how are you excellent? I'm excited to talk about this.
This episode will be a very Californiacentric policy episode. Lots of other US
states have very similar laws and procedures, and we would really love to hear

(02:13):
from anybody who lives in another stateor this state after they've listened to this
and let us know how it's differentor what you think about it, as
well as from people I know.We have a lot of listeners around the
world, so obviously different countries dealwith these things in different ways, and
I'd really like to know you know, how it's different, what's similar.
This episode will be split into twosections, so first we're going to define

(02:36):
and talk about the process, andthen we're going to share a handful of
real cases from California. These arecases we've never covered, so they should
be hopefully new to you, andwe'll just kind of go through them and
say what we think and all that. And just a quick note because we
will be going into details of thelegal process that we are not attorneys or

(02:59):
lawyers or anyway giving people legal advice. This is just really just information because
I think we kind of the threeof us know what these terms mean sort
of, but we didn't really knowmuch about the process or what it meant
for people who were going through it. So this is just for us to
learn. What do you guys thinkabout when you hear the word pardon typically,

(03:19):
like what's your reaction or what doyou just kind of think of?
Yeah, I think of either peoplegetting stopped from being executed, or people
like asking the president, hey letme slide or things like that. It
seems so you hear it quite often. It's kind of thrown around a lot,
and I really don't know the fullextent of it. Yeah. I

(03:44):
think that's one of the reasons whywhy I was excited that we were going
to do this is because, likeSean, I think most of the time
when somebody says pardon, I thinkof the like the death row pardon,
you know, the the last repeatreprieve for somebody from a governor president,
and then things like you know,the Watergate pardon. You know, it's

(04:08):
you've committed a crime, but forsome reason, we're forgiving you for committing
that crime. Yeah, I'm kindof the same. I usually think of
it as far as the US presidentpardoning someone, and also in relation to
death penalty cases, which, asit turns out, pardons or stays of
execution or commutations for those kinds ofcrimes are really really rare. They're just

(04:29):
more they're highly covered by the press. So I think it'd be good to
learn a little bit about the peoplewho are more likely and who often receive
pardons and commutations. So we're justgoing to go through the terms to get
so that everybody's on the same page. Clemency in general is a very broad
term. It's sort of the umbrellaterm under which there are specific types of

(04:49):
clemency that one can get. Clemencyjust means mercy or lenients, and in
the United States this can be doneby a governor for state crimes or president
for federal crimes. And like Isaid, I know we have a lot
of people who don't live in theUnited States listening, so just I think
it's important to know that the UnitedStates has broken up into fifty separate states,

(05:11):
and all the cases we've covered,obviously they've been in California. But
those are people. I don't thinkwe've covered a federal crime. Those are
people breaking state laws. Bank robbery, oh yeah, we did cover the
Houston bank robbery, and that isan example of a federal crime, I
know, and that's not dissimilar toa lot of other nations who have also
break down into states and regions.But I just want to be clear because

(05:34):
even in the US federal pardons,which are pardons done by the United States
President, they garner a lot ofattention and lots of people when they hear
a word like clemency, I thinkthey're going to think of those kinds of
crimes. But here we're just goingto be talking about state crimes. Clemency
comes in three basic ways. InCalifornia. It comes as a pardon,

(05:54):
a commutation, or a reprieve.I'll justifying what these are and what they
entail really how people get them,and then we'll share some details of those
crimes. First off, let's talkabout what a pardon is. In the
state of California. Pardon literally means, according to the Webster Meriam Dictionary,
to absolve from the consequences of afault or crime, or the relief of

(06:15):
a penalty improperly assessed. But whenit comes to the law, it's a
little more complicated. Pardons in Californiaare given to people who have committed a
crime and either have been found guiltyor pleaded guilty to said crime and are
now out of jail. And whilethe word pardon sounds like something that completely
forgives the crime you've committed, thatactually isn't the case. Specifically, a

(06:40):
pardon is basically a piece of paperthat is official. It's signed by the
governor, and it says, yes, you've committed a crime in the past
that is not forgotten, but you'vebeen successfully rehabilitated and should not continue to
suffer all the consequences of the penaltyyou received. When someone commits a crime
in the state of California, andin particular a felony, they lose a

(07:01):
lot of civil rights that they don'tget back after they've served their time in
jail, and have been led out. For instance, they're no longer allowed
to vote or serve on a jury. They lose the ability to own a
gun. Whenever they fill out orsubmit a job application, they have to
inform their employer that they committed acrime. If they are not US citizens,

(07:23):
they can suffer major issues, includingpossibly being deported. They also lose
access to certain kinds of certifications thatyou might need for jobs, so a
certification to be a lawyer, ora doctor to work in the prison sector,
to be a nurse. There's actuallya lot of jobs in California that
you need those certifications for, sothis can be a huge barrier to someone
being successful once they leave prison.So a pardon is essentially a way to

(07:47):
show that you made a mistake,sometimes a really terrible one, but you've
also done some good things in yourlife. You've turned it around. Receiving
that pardon can mean that you cannow vote or serve on a jury.
In some instances, you will beable to own a gun. It really
depends on the crime that you hadcommitted. There are some limitations when it

(08:07):
comes to other states and also thefederal government. You will still have to
tell an employer that you were inprison, but you can also submit this
piece of paper as evidence that youspent a good amount of time doing all
the right things, and in somecases it will mean that you can still
get your green card. When itcomes to immigration laws, here you also
might be able to avoid deportation,although immigration law is a whole other thing,

(08:31):
and you will also have access tosome of those certifications. Does that
kind of makes sense? Yeah,I think the big one is the idea.
The pardon isn't saying you're innocent ofthe crime. You had to have
been found guilty of a crime toget a pardon. It's not all is
forgiven. It's you've paid your debtto a point, and we're reinstating those

(08:52):
rights, or at least apportion onthose rights that were taken away from you.
Yeah, exactly. Pardons, however, are not simple to come by.
You have to apply for a pardonand you have to prove that you
deserve one under the law, dependingon the crime you've committed. You have
to spend years living a crime freelife. You'll need to submit paperwork showing

(09:13):
your work history, all the opportunitiesyou took to rehabilitate yourself. I mean
just really anything to prove that you'reon the right track. So you're listing
volunteer work, how you spend yourfree time, and even letters of recommendation
from people who know you. Andthis is even still not a guarantee that
you can receive a pardon. Andit also actually helps if you list out
why you need the pardon. Somaybe you have lived a crime free life

(09:37):
and you were a doctor before andyou want to serve a specific community where
maybe there are less doctors, sothere's kind of a special need for you
to be able to get that rightback. This whole system, the whole
clemency system, is a way toprovide inmates with opportunities and hope, so
that even though they've committed a crime, it's not just the end of it.

(09:58):
You have a reason to be goodin jail. You have a reason
to work, to get educated,to join rehabilitative programs. It's so that
you're kind of set on that rightpath, and it helps the prisons,
it helps society in California. Whatdo you guys think of that process?
I like it. It's a lotof times we've talked or a couple times

(10:18):
we've talked about you know, sometimesyou get these sentences and there's not really
hope. We've also talked about thata lot of these cases. Sometimes the
penalty seems extreme for how many yearsyou get for certain things. So having
anything to help you go through thingsis probably fantastic for the inmate to actually

(10:41):
show that they can be rehabilitated intothe rest of the world. Yeah,
the basic reasons someone would want apardon are, you know what we went
over already, But there are twoother reasons that we want to highlight,
and they will be highlighted in acouple of the specific key is that we're
going to talk about. The firstis that a pardon can be used to

(11:03):
right some wrongs, which Sean Kanaalluded to here. There are a handful
of laws that existed in California historythat in general society can we now think
differently about. So maybe you werearrested peacefully protesting your civil rights but they
threw the book at you, oryou suffered abuse and defended yourself, and
now there's kind of a consensus thatmaybe that crime shouldn't have been handled in

(11:26):
the way that it was in thesixties or the seventies or the eighties.
Or the nineties. We can't undothat trial or those past laws, but
the governor can alleviate the loss ofcivil rights and declare that what happened to
you, you know, was wrong. The last one, I also want
to mention it's kind of similar.It's something specifically started by Gavin Newsom.
It's called the California Clemency Initiative.So if you've listened to us for a

(11:52):
while, you probably know we talkedextensively about the laws against people who are
primarily gay or part of the LGBTQIAplus spectrum and who had consensual sexual relationships
with other people of age who couldalso consent. That for far too long
in California was considered a crime.So even though that law had been changed,
many many people are living currently withthe consequences of those older laws.

(12:16):
So they may have to register sexoffenders, they have to note that they've
been convicted of a crime when talkingto an employer. So this is a
path to finally have those crimes pardoned. And this is a separate path where
you apply separately, but it's basicallythe same where someone's pardoning you and saying
that we're trying to undo some ofthat harm that was caused by these bad

(12:37):
laws. I think also another oneas just another example, Jerry Brown did
a lot of these pardons, andlooking at some of the lists of what
people did, I saw it waslike they were caught with either a small
amount of drugs or drug paraphernalia andthey didn't even go to prison or anything,
but it was a felony at thetime, so they lose all those

(13:00):
rights, even though it was justsuch a small minimal thing, but it
was a felony at the time.So a lot of those pardons that I
saw Jerry Brown did it because hedid a lot. Was was this because
it just, you know, youlose so many rights. You can't even
vote because you had a little bitof you know, whatever it was on
you. We're actually going to havethose graphs. We have a list of

(13:22):
recent governors in California going back afew years and how many pardons they issued,
and you can kind of see abreakdown of how many each governor did.
And like you said, Sean,Jerry Brown actually has the most pardons
of any governor in California history,one of the reasons being he was in
office longer than I think any othergovernor in California history, he had a

(13:46):
lot. Yeah, there's there's anarticle link that actually will go into a
little bit more detail about kind ofhow some of these different governors looked at
pardons and things like that, andit was it was an interesting article to
read after you didn't new research andwe'd started initially talking about this, and
we went through because there's not alot of data that you can find on

(14:07):
these pardons. Some of the reasonis because it hasn't always been announced publicly.
Some governors, including Schwarzenegger and GrayDavis issued decrease after they did I
think they each did fifteen partons orso after they did pardons that they should
be held quietly, I guess forlike twenty five years. And so if
a pardon didn't get or a commutationeven didn't get press, you kind of

(14:31):
don't know about it. So goingthrough what the ones we could find,
there were a lot, like Seansaid, of drug offenses, and you're
seeing people get for just a drugoffense fifty sixty years in jail, and
we're covering cases where people aren't reallygetting that for I mean, some pretty
terrible crimes, right, And we'llhave links on our website as well as

(14:52):
to what Charles was saying, butto the Governor's site where you can find
information on how to apply for ourpardon. It is free to apply,
but with a anything else, Ithink having a lawyer who can put together
a thick stack of documents for youwould be helpful. Will also have links
for organizations I think Sean found thatcan help with the process, so hopefully
those will be useful to somebody.There are two ways to apply for a

(15:16):
pardon. The first I'm just gonnago over this really quickly, but the
first is to apply to receive acertificate of rehabilitation. That is an application
that you send to the superior courtin the area where you live. This
process requires all the same proof thatwe laid out before, and you go.
If you are accepted, you goto a hearing. The district attorney
who prosecuted you the first time,or someone from that county might contest the

(15:41):
application, but if the certificate isgranted, then the case is automatically sent
to the governor to be looked at. It however, is not a guarantee
that you will receive a pardon,but it is a court saying you know,
it's another entity saying we've looked atyour case, We've looked at everything
you've done, and it does seemlike you've been rehability aided. The other

(16:02):
way is just to apply directly tothe governor with all the same exact information.
And it's also important to note thatif you have two or more felonies,
which a majority of the people we'vecovered definitely have, and I think
a lot of people in these pardonsthat we saw, you have to have
a case before the California Supreme Courtand majority of justices have to approve that
application. So even getting that approval, you could have your certificate of rehabilitation,

(16:23):
You could have the Supreme Court sayyeah, everything looks good, and
you still might not receive a parting. That doesn't necessarily when you said two
or more felonies' that's not because we'vetalked about a lot of like sentencings,
So people that committed a crime andwere charged with multiple felonies for the same
occurrence typically yes. Yeah, Andthis is just a small look into the

(16:48):
process. I know, I waskind of shocked at how in depth this
process is and how there's all thesecourts involved in theory and how many people
because it's such a political thing whenwhen a governor announces his party or his
commutations, and just seeing how manypeople are on board. I guess I
would say with saying yes, someoneshould be pardoned, I had an impact

(17:08):
on me. But I feel too, we never hear about it until after
it's done. It's like, Ithink that the process part was interesting to
me because of the fact that wealways, at least I do I you
know, you read it in thepaper or see on a news site that
oh, Governor so and so hadthis many this year, and then there's

(17:30):
kind of a flurry for a fewdays of either oh that was worth great
or people really digging into it andquestioning a while certain people got those,
and then it kind of goes awayand nobody ever thinks about it until like
the following year. I think alsothough, just like a death penalty case
or anything with courts, the processis so overwhelwhelmingly long because a lot of

(17:52):
times they don't want to get itwrong, and especially with this, you're
you're talking about people who some ofthem committed you know, heinous crimes,
that there has to be a verylong process to get it taken care of,
I think, and because I thinkit's interesting. As we record this,
the news came out today that thethird guy from the Chowchilla bus kidnapping

(18:18):
is approved for parole, but sinceit wasn't a murder case, the governor
said, I can only ask younot to release him, which I thought
was interesting. So it's like thegovernor doesn't have power when it's not a
murder case though, at all,to do anything. Because I feel like
this, you know, it cango the opposite way too. With pardons.
He can also say absolutely not becausethat's his job. It seems like

(18:41):
with this, so when it's nota murder case, it looks like he
doesn't have any power. So Ithought that was interesting. Yeah, And
on that note, I think thatis the kind of for me that there's
this long bureaucratic process that makes sense. You apply, you have to show
it's almost like a job. Youhave to show that you're you're qualified,

(19:02):
that you've done what you need to, that you've taken the classes and inside
of your institution, that you're showingremote you're doing everything, much like parole,
but in parole, where there's multiplepeople, you have a parole board
you're appealing to. So it's notjust one person say so, there's victim
impact statements even in that realm onthis side with clemency and pardons, Even

(19:30):
through all this process, it ultimatelyis up to the governor. Like throughout
this entire thing, it still rideson the fact that this person has the
ability to say yes or no,regardless of I mean, regardless of anything.
Because even even that ability of like, well, you can apply through
this rigorous process or you can applydirectly to the governor. It just it's

(19:51):
an interesting it's it's almost a completeflip flop than the parole. What's interesting
about it is the letting victims knowthat this is going on is kind of
a modern thing that happened I believethe last year Governor Schwarzenegger, or in
response to one of Governor Schwarzenegger's pardons. So I think there are cases where

(20:12):
the prosecutors, and a lot ofprosecutors will will stand up and say that
it shouldn't happen. I will alsosay that despite governors handing out pardons,
are not handing out partis, butgiving pardons or clemency in general, a
thousand people I think over a thousandpeople is what Governor Brown did. It's
still kind of a drop in thebucket compared to California. We have one

(20:33):
of the largest jail populations in theworld, and you're thinking about all the
people who've already gotten out. It'sstill not very many people, especially when
you're looking at certain kinds of cases. And despite the fact that there are
all these on their website, thisis what you need to have and this
is what you should submit. Itis a very subjective process, you know,

(20:55):
it is up to the governor andthe Board of Parole, which helps
siphon through all of the requests.There are also two other forms of clemency
in California, commutation and reprieve.Commutations are for people who are currently serving
their sentence. A commutation is areduction in that sentence. This includes knocking

(21:15):
off years on a sentence or immediatelyputting someone up for parole. One of
the main reasons a person may seeka commutation and a governor may agree is
because the inmate received an overly harshpunishment and so you could end up with
decades in prison. Even if youare put up immediately for parole, say
you got twenty years in jail,you serve ten and the governor now commutes

(21:38):
your sentence says, you know,I'm going to give you ten years off.
You're immediately up for parole. Youstill have to go through the parole
process. So it's very similar tothe pardon. The governor will take to
account the crime that you committed,the trial, the victims involved, what
it will mean to release you backinto society. If you have become rehabilitated,
you're you know, if you've committedany crimes, will prison, if

(22:00):
you've taken advantage of programs like gettinga ged or education or mental health services,
the whole rehabilitation process, if you'vebeen a model prisoner, as I
said, and any mitigating factors inthe original crime of the laws that were
involved. In order to receive acommutation, you also again have to apply

(22:21):
That process is also available on thewebsite. It's a very similar process where
you're just providing a lot of information. If you've committed one or more felony,
then again you have the Supreme Courthas to okay the process. And
we've seen several things that may seemlike that's not that difficult the process to
get through. If a governor thinksyou deserve commutation, usually Supreme Court agrees.

(22:42):
The other thing I want to bringup about commutations before we move on,
is that a governor can commute thesentence of a prisoner on death row.
So more than likely it would requirethe approval of Cowe Supreme Court to
do that, but it has beendone in the past, and I've seen
some people guessing that maybe Governor Newsomwill, towards the end of his time

(23:02):
as governor commute those sentences of peopleon death row. I don't know.
I've never heard him speak on that, but maybe possible, and it's been
done in places like Illinois, whoin two thousand and three their governor,
George Ryan, commuted at all thesentences of people on death row and commuted
those to life in prison without parole. In California, I saw it done

(23:23):
a couple of times where they commutedsomeone on death row to life in prison,
and then another governor comes in andcommutes that sentence down further, even
releasing a prisoner, but I wouldthink would be pretty politically risky. That
is interesting. The last method agovernor can use is called a reprieve.
This is actually just a way fora governor to stop basically anything from a
trial to a prison for a varietyof reasons, new information has come to

(23:48):
light, maybe you have a lackof representation. And also for medical issues,
which is the one we're gonna lookat tonight. So if someone has
an illness that the prisons just can'thandle, or is made worse by being
in prison, or is you know, going to result in the death for
instance, the governor can offer areprieve. This doesn't necessarily mean that the
individual is set free. In fact, it can mean a transfer to a

(24:08):
place that better suits their needs.But again, all of the conditions we've
talked about apply, So you haveto be you know, have a good
a good track record in jail andthose kinds of things, as well as
you're medical or disability needs, whichI this one surprised me because I think
I only hear about these when they'vewhen they've gone viral, or they're heavily
covered. When someone's trying to getout of jail because of age or cancer,

(24:30):
and you know, people are veryupset about it. So it makes
sense to me that, you know, so you have something like dementia,
a jail may not be the placefor you, and you need to go
somewhere where it's safer for everyone involved. The Board of Parole investigates clemency applications
and they take all sorts of thingsunder consideration, like the impact that pardon

(24:52):
will have on the community, onfamily members, the need to get it,
the public safety, the age,and the circumstance is of the offender,
and again just everything that's happened since. So now that we've described the
process, let's talk a little bitabout some specific examples, and Charles is
going to share a first one.So the first one we're going to talk

(25:14):
about is actually a pardon, Sosomebody that was convicted of a crime,
but then the governor gives them afull pardon and reinstates their rights. Sarah
Cruzon was raised by her mother inRiverside, California, where she was an
honor role student. Her father wasin prison at the time and Sarah had

(25:34):
limited contact with him during her childhood. Her childhood was not a happy one.
It was reported that she was molestedfor the first time at the age
of five by her mother's boyfriend atthe time. This would continue for the
next few years and through a successionof other boyfriends. It was when Sarah
was eleven years old that she metGeorge Gilbert GG Howard. He was twenty

(25:59):
years her senior and took the roleof kind of a surrogate father in her
life. In court records, itwas it's recorded that he began grooming her
for sex trafficking almost as soon asthey met. He would eventually force her
into a life of sex trafficking atthe age of thirteen. By the time
Sarah was sixteen, her mother wasliving in Rubidoux, which is an unincorporated

(26:22):
area outside of Riverside. She wasinvolved with a boy whose uncle, James
Earl Hampton, found out about Howardtrafficking Sarah. He threatened James Earl threatened
her life and that of her mother, and told her to kill Howard and
take his money. She agreed.Met Howard at a local motel on March

(26:44):
ninth, nineteen ninety four. Sometimeduring the night, Sarah shot Howard through
the neck, took one thousand,five hundred dollars and the keys to his
car. She would eventually be arrestedwhen the body was found by the motel
staff, along with her id in. She was arrested at the house where
the Hampton's were residing in Pomona,and had made a full confession at the

(27:07):
time. The DA ignored any extranuatingcircumstances that might have arrived because of her
age or the sexual abuse in trafficking. Instead, Sarah was tried as an
adult or first degree murder. Shetestified at the trial that she had killed
Howard, but only because Hampton hadordered it and she was in fear of
her life and that of her mom's. It's unclear whether either Hampton or Otis

(27:32):
that's his nephew and was Sarah's andI guess i'll use the term in quote
boyfriend at the time. It's reallyunclear if they were charged at all in
any crime during this She'd be foundguilty of first degree murder with two special
circumstances, one that Howard was murderedduring a commission of a robbery and that

(27:53):
Sarah had been lying in wait tokill him. She was sentenced to life
without the possibility of parole. OnJanuary second, twenty eleven. Media attention
drew the eye of Arnold Schwarzenegger,who was then governor of California at the
time. He commuted her sentence totwenty five years with the possibility of parole.

(28:14):
That's the commutation you were talking about, is He's like, that's entirely
too severe for what went on.It's twenty five to life with the possibility
of parole. She was still heldat the women's facility in Chaochilla. Eventually,
in January of twenty nineteen, hersentence was reduced to second degree manslaughter
and nineteen years, which means timeserved. She was up for pearole and

(28:38):
found suitable for parole in June orthat year. Governor Jerry Brown did not
act on the decision of the paroleboard, which means that she was paroled
in October and having served nineteen yearsof her sentence. CanYa State Senator Leland
Yee said, quote, life withoutparole means absolutely no opportunity for release.

(29:00):
It also means miners are often leftwithout access to programs and rehabilitative services while
in prison. The sentence was createdfor the worst of the criminals that have
no possibility of reform, and it'snot a humane way to handle children.
While the crimes that committed caused undeniableand suffering, these youth offenders are not
the worst of the worst. Yewho is a child psychologist by trade,

(29:26):
would sponsor a bill that would getrid of life without the possibility of parole
as an option for childhood offenders.So this is an example of Now she
gets a full pardon from Gavinor Newsom, which says she paid her debt,
she committed a crime, but sheshould have her rights reinstated. So I

(29:47):
like this was a really great instance. Are really kind of a good example
for me a few different things thatwe've talked about in this episode. Governor
Schwarzenegger says, life without the possibilityof parole is too or for what this
case was. She was a victimin her own right, she was involved
in she was a victim of sextrafficking, she was threatened, you know,

(30:08):
she was attacking her her abuser.But she did commit a crime.
So he commutes her sentence to twentyfive years with the possibility of parole.
Eventually, years later the sentence getsproduced again to manslaughter with nineteen years time
served. She's up for parole.The parole Board recommends to the governor,

(30:32):
Yes, we're gonna We're gonna approveher for parole. Jerry, the governor
at that time, Jerry Brown says, I'm not going to do anything.
She needs to parole. She getsparoled and leaves prison, but she still
has this you know, conviction hangingover her rights are not restored. She's
unavailable. There are certain jobs thatare that are not available to her.
Along comes Gavin Newsom looks at thecase. She applies for parole or for

(30:56):
a pardon, and she's selected asthis is a prime example of somebody who
should be pardoned, who should havetheir rights restored. So I thought was
a really interesting example of that.And she's she's gone on to do a
lot of other things, like goodthings, right, Yeah, she's actually
she's written a book about her experiencein her life. We'll have a link
on our website for that. Shealso it works as outreach for other victims

(31:22):
of sex trafficking and really speaks witha voice of someone who is an advocate
for victims and victims' rights. Andso this is a woman who's dedicated her
entire life to bettering other people's lives, even though she committed, you know,
committed a terrible crime. But onecould argue it's a terrible crime against
somebody who is abusing her. Yeah, right, and you have another case

(31:45):
you want to share to right anotherAnd she was just pardoned this last July,
so she's one of the ones that, yeah, this group and we'll
have a link to to kind ofyou can see everyone that was pardoned in
this last batch of pardons. Thenext person is also part of of this
group of pardons. This one,this one is a little different. I
think this goes back to what youtalked about as far as what was considered

(32:07):
a crime in nineteen sixty seven isno longer a crime. And so this
is an opportunity that Governor Newsom said, no, no, no, we're
gonna We're gonna fix this. Sothis next, this next pardon, then
I'll talk about really it goes tothe heart of Newsome's California clemency initiative.
So this crime happened in nineteen sixtyseven, Newsome. Governor Newsom will granted

(32:31):
a pardon to eighty year old aneighty year old Maryland man for a conviction
dating back to nineteen sixty seven inOrange, Orange County, California. Henry,
and I'm going to butcher this lastname, so I apologize ahead of
time. Henry Pensnowski who again,like I said, currently lives in Server

(32:52):
Springs, Maryland. He was convictedin nineteen sixty seven of having consensual sex
with another man. I remember wetalked about We've talked a lot about these
kind of issues. At this time, it was considered illegal. He's actually
charged with a misdemeanor. He getsarrested in nineteen sixty seven. Actually,

(33:14):
he gets caught having consensual sex withanother another man by a security guard in
a kind of an abandoned industrial area. So the security guards walking around,
he catches him, He turns himin, the police arrest him, and
Henry pleads guilty to a lewdness charge. In exchange, the police drop more
severe charge of sexual perversion. Inhis application for pardon, he actually calls

(33:37):
out that he doesn't want any futureobstacles with things like employment or housing related
issues that might stem from this conviction. What's amazing about the story is not
only does this conviction impact his youknow, the potential for housing and employment
and everything else, but actually impactshis immigration status because on top of everything

(34:00):
else, Henry's actually a Holocaust survivor. He was actually born in Germany in
nineteen forty and so he was ablewith his parents to survive Nazi Germany as
Jewish immigrants. Eventually, after thewar, they make it all the way
to the United States, but they'reimmigrants and because being charged with this,

(34:21):
this is a constant kind of cloudover him of threatening his immigration status.
So because of this pardon, nowthat's that's a worry that he doesn't have.
I just I thought, I reallythought it was amazing that a person
that went through all of that inthe early part of their life and then
get arrested for a bogus law andwe've talked about it, you know,

(34:45):
a law that was designed specifically tobe discriminatory and go after a specific group
of people, and then pay hisdebt to you know, go through and
pay his debt to society, andstill have this hanging over for the majority
of his life. Finally, atyou know, in his eighties, to
get a pardon from the governor,I thought was pretty cool. It's interesting

(35:07):
too, because we're going to talkabout commutations in a second, and there's
at least one that's a little lessI think clear. But this where you
have someone who's being pardoned for somethingwe no longer even have as a crime.
In California. And this is themost that really can be done for
that. You can't be found innocentlater, you can't have that expunged.
It happened, but you know,you're just you still have to you have

(35:30):
things restored, but it's still there, you know. I mean, I
think that's kind of interesting that that'sthe most. Yeah, there's no way
of taking that back and apologizing.It's and and the we understand now,
but that's a that was an unjustlaw he got arrested for. You know,
he was made he was made todo, you know, even ten
days, ten days in jail,still ten days in jail, but three

(35:52):
years probation. He always has thaton his record. And now to have
that, have that not expunged,but a formal declaration by the government of
California saying, yeah, you werearrested for you arrested for an unjust law,
and we're officially pardoning you and givingyou all rights back. I think

(36:13):
it's the least the state can do. Hello. My name is Kiely and
I am the host of a paranormaland true crime podcast. On my podcast
Missing Mysteries, I take a specialfocus on unsolved and missing person's cases.
When I started my podcast, itwas solely for the fact that I wanted
to help people whose stories have notbeen shared. Over the year I have

(36:37):
had it, it has evolved tobe so much more, even adding a
paranormal side. With the addition toa paranormal side, each week I cover
a different topic. One week itwill be an unsolved or a missing person,
and the next week it will bea paranormal topic. Sometimes these blend
together and will be two partners whereI cover the crime and the haunting places

(36:59):
such as Bobby Mackey's Music World,Melissa as Murder House, the Amityville House,
Luzy Borden's home. If any ofthese only topics you would like to
listen to, please check out MissyMysteries anywhere where you listen to your favorite
podcasts. And I really do hopeto see you next week on my podcast,
Missy Mysteries. So we're gonna talkabout a couple of commutation cases,

(37:25):
and we'll start with Sean well Mine. I'm just gonna keep it brief because
we're gonna be getting into it.This is my next episode that I've been
working on. But Joanne Parks,she was a mother of three in nineteen
eighty nine and a fire happened inthe middle of the night at her house

(37:46):
and she ran out because she couldn'tmake it to the back, got help
from the neighbor, and her threeyoung children died in the fire, and
it was a tragic thing at first. They did the investigation and they found
it was a tragic accident, andbecause of weird turns and circumstances, after

(38:10):
two years, they decide to arresther for murder and arson and she's convicted
with this and life without parole.After a lot more they you know,
they saw different evidence, and thenthe judge still said no, we're gonna
stick with it. The governor didcommute her sentence and gave her the possibility

(38:35):
of parole, which after being inprison for twenty nine years, she was
given parole because of everything, likewe talked about earlier, and you know,
but I think this case is definitelyinteresting that we'll get into when we
have it, because it's hard tofigure out. I think we'll definitely get
into it because you've got three childrenthat died in a fire, and if

(39:00):
you go back over evidence and ajudge says no, but then you're up
for parole. That's a harsh crimethat you were committed of, and there's
just a lot into it, andwe'll have to get into it once we
get to the episode. But thiswas a commutation that Newsom did and she
was able to get parole and thenmaybe step forward, see how everything goes,

(39:22):
and she might be able to getthe pardon. So I don't want
to give anything away in your episode, and I think we found a couple
couple of episodes by going through thesepardons and commutations. But so she it's
believed that she's actually innocent of thiscrime. California Innocence Project was behind her
and everything, and that's the thingbecause to me, it's hard to say,

(39:43):
I need to still do more andmore research before I get it all
done. But so in twenty sixteen, she was able to have an evidentiary
hearing based on the claims that thefalse scientific evidence was presented at her trial,
So California Innocence Projects going through it. And then even though that the
judge kind of said, m yeah, maybe some false evidence, the evidence

(40:06):
presented at the original trial was accurate. So I mean, she still went
through that hearing and they still thoughtit was accurate, but Newsom granted Parks
clemency petition and commuted her life withoutparole sentence to make her instantly eligible for
parole, and Parks went to theparole board and got paroled after twenty nine

(40:28):
years. So I think once weget into it a lot more, But
this is one of those I don'tknow, it's not so clear to me,
but she did get paroled. Soyeah, that sounds like an interesting
one to really get the details on. We are both weirdly working on Arson
cases and in mind the same typeof thing kind of similar to happen and

(40:49):
Arson. Science has really and what'saccepted as science has really changed, so
it's kind of fascinating. But theybecome these kind of cases become pretty controversial
because of the original evidence and youknow, it seems like the person did
it, and it's hard to forgetwhen someone just presents you with new science
that maybe all of that what youthought was wrong. So I think this
one sounds like it's a lot morecontroversial than some of the other commutations that

(41:12):
you were talking about. Charles.Yeah, I think like when we talk
about Sarah's case, in which,like we said, she's you know,
by by I think all of ourdefinitions. She's a victim of abuse that
you know, was threatened, endedup taking somebody's life, but it was
again and not not to mitigate murderor not to minimize murder, but you

(41:35):
know, she she's murdering her abuser, and I think a lot of us
would say, well, it's notgetting life without the possibility parole. So
that's that's a lot easier one forme to say, Oh, the governor,
the governor and three governors actually tookit upon themselves to right a wrong
that was done. And then withHenry's cases, like it's it's a law

(41:59):
that's never been in the first place, it's it's not I mean, yes,
he was convicted of a crime,but that crime was an unjust crime
at the time. So again,that's an easier one to say, oh,
yeah, one hundred percent, that'srighting a wrong from the past.
It's like you were saying, Sean, it's a lot more difficult when you're
looking at is the person really guiltyor is it it's the gray area that

(42:21):
that's a really then a hard oneto wrap your brain around, right.
I don't want it to sound likeI think she's guilty or not guilty,
because I just want to give theevidence once we get into it. But
yeah, it's it is very perfectterm gray area because you know, I
wasn't there. I don't I don'tknow these people personally. I don't know
any of the people that did anythingin it. So it is very hard

(42:45):
to make my own judgment just bygoing off of what I've read and so
far. It's like, you know, this is hard. So it's just,
yeah, it is a gray area. And but it's interesting how this
happens. And that's also to rememberthat, like you said at the beginning
of the episode, Jessica, thatnone of these are saying that the people

(43:05):
are innocent, right, you know, a pardon is you're you're still convicted
of the crime. It's we're we'resaying that you deserve your in essence.
Will you deserve your state and federalrights or in this case, your state
rights back. You have the rightto or at least some of your rights
back. A commutation just means wethink that you've served enough time up until
this point instead of what was originallygiven to you as a your debts society.

(43:30):
And then and the reprieve is Imean, in essence, we feel
sorry for you, so we're goingto let you out early for whatever reason,
whether it's medical or sufficient need.But none of the none of those
cases, are you innocent? Yeahright, in theory, yeah, I
mean it could you be used thatway. I saw a case in the

(43:51):
late eighteen hundreds of a man onwho had been given death row, had
been put on death row, andI guess probably didn't have that term them,
but it had been given, youknow, death penalty, and they
used this process. They first commutedhis sentence and then eventually he was commuted
again and let out, and thenI believe he was pardoned. But they
use that process because everyone had kindof just come to the conclusion that he

(44:15):
had he hadn't committed this crime.He was innocent, and in fact,
sheriffs and prosecutors at a time whowere involved in the trial finding him guilty,
we're all urging the governor to pardonhim. So I do think it
can be used in that way.We're not covering anything that specifically like that,
but I mean, it is possible, but it is not what we
saw overwhelmingly when we went through allof them, the pardons that we looked

(44:37):
at. Are the commutations right,You're saying like it could be if I
if I was wrongfully convicted. I'veI've went through the appeal process, those
were denied. I you know,I'm going I'm trying to get out on
parole, but that's not working.The pardon maybe my opportunity to get out.
And then a commutation, yeah,commutation to go back in or even

(45:01):
or reprieve any of those three tothen go back in and say great,
I'm out of jail. Now nowI can focus on trying to prove the
fact that I'm innocent and then getcompletely either in theory, yes, but
it might be impossible to prove somethinglike innocence. And I know there are
a handful of states where people wherethere is lots of evidence and they have
someone on death row, where there'slots of evidence that the person did not

(45:22):
commit that crime, and they arewaiting that person is flushed out of appeals.
There's nothing that can be done.They are waiting for governors to step
in and either put them on reprieveor stay, you know, so that
they aren't put to death. Incases that are it's a little more clear
that there is evidence but there's justnot a way to fix that problem.

(45:42):
So I'm not saying it's common,I'm just saying it is. It is
something that could happen if any governorsaw that someone there was evidence of their
innocence, or maybe that there couldbe evidence of their innocence, could use
the commutation process or even the reprieveto put everything on hold. The other
commutation case we're going to cover isof a man named Darnell Green. This

(46:02):
is one of the ones that happenedalso this July. Green was arrested in
nineteen ninety seven, when he wastwenty seven years old, for committing armed
robbery. He was with a gangof five mass gunmen when they kicked in
the door of a Medesto, Californiahome. Inside the home were three women,
two men, and a three yearold who were ordered face down onto
the floor at gunpoint. They stoleforty dollars in some jewelry. They also

(46:28):
acted very violently, and according tothe sines Las County DA, this includes
stripping a man of his clothes andsearching his body for drugs pretty liberally searching
here's body. This is a veryserious crime. No one was murdered but
I mean, this is obviously extraordinary, terrifying to have someone barge into your
home and point guns at you.According to his commutation order, the Governor

(46:50):
notes that in nineteen ninety eight hewas sentenced to twenty six years in prison
for three counts of robbery, fouryears for two counts of attempted robbery,
one year and four months participation ina street gang, fourteen years and four
months for sentence enhancements. Those weregun enhancements, and a total prison term
of forty five years in eight months. The order that the Governor sign also

(47:14):
states the reasoning his sentence was beingcommuted, noting that he had bettered himself
in jail receiving his ged, hehad taken college courses. Prison staff called
him quote responsible, trustworthy, anddiligent. He has been incarcerated for twenty
four years, and this commutation meansthat he's immediately available to go through the
parole process that includes appearing before thepar board and proving all everything that you

(47:37):
know you would need to get outof jail. I will also note that
because he has multiple felonies, hewas not only approved by the people who
go through the applications on the proboard, but a majority of the California
Supreme Court also looked at his caseand made a recommendation for clemency. That's
more of a secretive process we've learned. So how rigorous that is maybe up

(47:58):
for debate, but he does courtall, you know, agreed Stanslaus County
DA Burdget Flatager opposed the commutation andlisted reasons for this, including details of
the crime and how terrible it was, and also because he had violated prison
rules a handful of times, includinghe tested positive for marijuana once, he
refused to follow orders on multiple occasions, and he participated it's set in a

(48:22):
prison ride in two thousand and six. I couldn't find any specific information on
that. Again, this isn't aprocess that is to invalidate the seriousness of
the crime that the person committed.And this is complicated, you know,
it's a question of whether or notprisons for punishment, is it for rehabilitation,
and what's a fair sentence to beginwith. Are are really difficult issues.

(48:44):
So for me, seeing that thisman received forty five years, and
I agree this is a horrible Iwould be terrified after this happened to me,
But forty five years is a lotof time, and more than we've
seen in some of the cases we'vecovered. I don't know, what do
you guys think about this one?Yeah, I just just based on what
you said, I feel the sameway. It seems like that disparity in

(49:04):
sentencing shows its base again and whyis he you know, and again we've
talked a lot about how that is, and the types of charges have a
lot to do with it, andyou know, even the judge and who
the prosecutor is and all that kindof stuff, but it is still shocking
to see that when it is onthis one, I think it's again going

(49:25):
back to them. We've said thisquite a bit, but this idea that
it isn't just to get out ofjail free card, like you said,
But he still has to go throughthe parole process, and so I think
this one is a lot easier too. I mean, he served twenty four
years, he's done all this stuffin prison. Now his opportunity to prove
to the parole board that he shouldbe allowed. I think that's a that's

(49:51):
also an easier one to understand.I do understand that this case and crime
was hideous, and I do youunderstand that the judge gave him forty five
years, but I still think fortyfive years is harsh. And like you
said, Jessica, we've seen thingsway more vicious with less punishment. So

(50:14):
you can just use the old standardof Kenneth Parnell. I mean, that
is just what it is. Andso you've got to give people a chance
and if they're doing everything right,even though this one's a little weird,
but you know, still give someonea chance. Yeah, I have to
agree. I think I don't wantto discount, you know, the feelings
of victims. I know that I'mnot saying that you guys are doing that,

(50:36):
but I always want to take thatinto consideration. But I think the
hard part with doing that is peoplemight never get out of jail then.
And if you've done something wrong andyou've paid you know, a fair amount
of time, and you've gotten thingstogether and you're capable of living a better
life, then you know, weshould give you the chance. That I
don't want people just to waste away in jail forever. That's not what

(50:59):
would be my hope. So itis really hard, and I think what's
interesting about it is going through alot of the ones throughout California history,
the ones I could find, andthe ones they printed a bunch in the
paper, like in the nineteen hundredsand stuff. So a lot of them
were pushed by das or prosecutors orsheriffs or people you wouldn't expect who were

(51:20):
like this, you know, thiswas too much time, or this person
deserves a chance, or we've seenthem rehabilitate. So I think that's kind
of interesting to just take into considerationthat it's possible some of these were also
supported by the counties or the placesin which they occurred. And then I
think there's always going to be DA'ssomewhere who are very hard law and order

(51:42):
who were just going to oppose allof it. I'm not saying that's what
happened here, or that these thingsshe listened aren't fair. I don't know.
It did make me think. I'veused these press releases and stuff in
our episodes, and it made methink maybe I should think a little more
about you know, because she's tryingto the jail is saying, oh no,
he's doing really well, and she'slistening all these other things in a

(52:04):
twenty five years sentence that he's beenthere forever. You know, he probably
didn't follow an order once or twiceto think more about who's telling you that
information. But well, I thinkthat's that's the that's a that's at the
heart of a lot of these isAnd I think one of the things that
we always try to do when we'rewhen we're researching and talking and writing about
a case is that much like anythingelse, this whole process is a lot

(52:29):
more complex than I think most ofus gave gave it credit for, you
know, or on our first look, go, oh, it's a pardon,
governor issues it done, you know, like not thinking about the massive
amounts of work that the that thethe inmate has to do, but also
the sports structure, but then alsolike what does that mean for the victims?

(52:49):
What does that mean for the communitythat they're coming back out to,
and how how are they reacting toit? So much like that, when
the initial crime is committed, it'snot just affecting one person into really is
there's a riple effects that kind ofsurround it. The last one I want
to go over is a medical reprieve. This is the only one that was
issued in July of twenty twenty two. It involves a woman by the name

(53:13):
of Deborah Belcher, and I couldnot find any information on this woman or
her crimes that she committed other thanthe paper that was given out by the
governor that he signed and when hegave her the reprieve, so I'm using
that information. In that order,it says that in nineteen eighty two,
Deborah Belcher received twenty five years tolife with two years for enhancements for murder,

(53:37):
so twenty seven years to life altogether. This crime was committed in Santa
Clara County. She apparently has somevery serious medical issues. It does not
get into specifics. I assume thatthere's privacy issues with people in jail,
just as there is with the restof us. But it does say that
the Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation medicalstaff have determined that she's at high risk.

(53:59):
This order her grants a reprieve,but specifically says quote temporary transferred to
an appropriate alternative placement in the communityto continue serving her sentence that is consistent
with public safety and public health.Again, without knowing anything about her health
or what's going on, this seemson the up and up to me.
This is, you know, thejail is also or sorry, the prison

(54:21):
is also asking for it. Theycan't take care of her there with whatever
she's got going on. So thismakes a lot of sense to me.
And I've never been to prison.I've never had to think about what happens
once. Dementia is really the onethat comes to mind. But when your
body has your older or something's goingon and they can't take care of you,
Yeah, what do you do?What do they do? It's not

(54:42):
fair to them either. So well, I think it's it's interesting in the
order though, it says to serveout the remainder of her sentence. So
again, it's not saying that she'sin the sen or she's getting out of
jail because she's sick. No,you're going to an alternate care facility where
you can get the care but stillserve out your sentence to society. I
think overall, the thing I reallylearned about this is that despite the fact

(55:07):
that this will get a lot ofattention of the clemency process in general,
or people will feel politically angry aboutit or happy about it, whichever side
you're on, I think it's importantto look at the individual cases because I
think the ones that get a lotof attention will be ones that are more
controversial. A lot of these arejust they're not that And I just think
that's important to keep in mind.Yeah we've said it, but it bears

(55:30):
repeating, is that these pardon thesepardons and reprieves commutations, they're as complex
and nuanced as the crimes themselves ona lot of cases. Any less thoughts,
I'm glad I learned all this stuffbecause a lot of times you hear
things, and you hear people complaininghow crime is going to go up,

(55:52):
and a lot of times it's notjust about just letting people out, and
there's a lot that goes into it. So it's good to know the whole
process and learn what's actually going on. Yeah, I think if this is
one of those instances where hundreds ofpeople will be you know, how they're
sentence commuted, or they'll be pardoned, and then the one person who makes

(56:13):
a mistake will become the face ofall of them, and it's just not
a really fair thing to do.I mean, you don't have to like
this process or agree with us orany of that, but seeing the individuals
involved is really important. So Iagree with Sean and to see that it's
not what a lot of us thoughtit was. That it's not you know,
to use that same term over andover again. It's not a get

(56:36):
out of jail free card. It'snot these these people aren't getting pardons or
commutations after doing like two months injail. No, some of these people
have given up over half their livesor have dealt with the repercussions of an
unjust law again in Henrich case,for sixty years in some cases. So

(56:59):
it was an interesting this is areally interesting kind of curse hery look on
this process. So thank you bothfor going over this episode with me.
We really do want to hear fromeverybody, so if you're in our Facebook
group or on Twitter or wherever,we will also have on the episode page
on California Chuecrime dot com we'll havesome some graphs and statistics, some links

(57:22):
to the articles that we use forour researches, as well as a PDF
document of the newest list of pardonsand commutations from Gavin Newsom from this year.
Thank you for listening to this episodeof California Chuecrime on the Darkcast Network.
For a full list of our sources, as well as more information on
this and all of our cases.Head to our webpage at California Chuecrime dot

(57:44):
com, where you can support theshow by joining our Patreon, which has
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If you'd like to contact it.You can find us on Twitter,
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(58:04):
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Snail Ranch Studios and The Hangar