The Stockton Serial Murders pt 2

In Part 2 we discuss the investigation into the Stockton serial killer, a community meeting in October and information about the arrest of Wesley Brownley, the man investigators alleged committed the crimes.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Darkcast Network the light shines Brightest onour indie podcasts. In early October twenty
twenty two, police Chief Stanley McFaddenof the Stockton Police Department in Stockton,
California, held a press conference toannounce that they believed five murders in the
area were possibly all committed by thesame perpetrator or perpetrators. All of the

(00:21):
murders were similar in the way andwhen they were committed, and police also
released a photo of a possible personof interests. Immediately, news from around
the country began to cover this case, and on social media, the term
quote Stockton serial killer began to trendlocally. The community of Stockton was affected
by this news in a different way. Fear rippled through many communities in the

(00:46):
area, while others stepped up tohelp in any way they could. In
Part two of the Stockton serial Killerepisode of California True Crime, we talk
about the effect on the community,what we know of the investigation, and
the arrest of the person the policeledge committed these crimes. Welcome to California

(01:34):
True Crime. I just want toreiterate this is a part two on the
Stockton serial Killers. So if youhaven't listened to part one, Please go
back and do so with me tocontinue talking about these terrible crimes and their
effect on Stockton. Are Sean andCharles, how are you too? I'm
doing good tonight. I'm also doinggood. Excited to continue talking about this

(01:56):
subject. Excellent. In our lastepisode, we talked about the lead up
to the announcement by the Stockton PoliceDepartment that they believed that it was possible
to use the word possible, thata single person or persons had committed several
murders in Stockton, and we alsocovered what would eventually become seven victims that
have been so far connected in thisseries of crimes. In this episode,

(02:20):
we'll be discussing the effect of thosecrimes, especially after the announcement that they
were connected, and also the arrestin this case that has been made.
Who the victims were and their lovedones are very important, I think in
every case we've covered, but alsoin this one because many of the victims
were from Stockton. They were eitherborn and raised or lived there for a
very long time, so they havea lot of connections there. They have

(02:44):
family, loved ones, friends inStockton, so we always talk about that
kind of effect when someone is murderedon the family in the community. But
in this case, there are atleast five people who've been murdered in Stockton,
and all of them have deep tiesthere in one way or another,
and so that effect is magnified inthis particular case, and even larger because

(03:06):
of the fear in Stockton and evenaround the world, because someone you know,
especially someone who may have been currentlyunhoused or unsheltered in Stockton, they
seem like they might be more atrisk than usual. So you're not only
worried about the people who have alreadysuffered, but this kind of fear that
this is ongoing and someone else canbe killed. The police have maintained all
along that they didn't have evidence ofa motive, so they couldn't say if

(03:30):
people were being targeted, but justthe circumstances of the crimes meant you could
be in danger, but so couldsomeone you know, especially if they were
on the streets, and that feargrew greater with the release of the photo
and a short video of the personof interest. Yeah, I think that's
one of the things that struck me. When you hear stories, there's that
initial grip of fear of anybody couldbe a target, and I think that

(03:53):
was very true in this case aswell. You know, early on there
was reports that they were it couldbe that they were targeting unhoused people.
There was not even even some talkthat it was directly targeting MICRANS workers.
But then it was some other someother reports getting mixed in of people being
shot in a car. And thenyou know the connection. As we go

(04:14):
along, we'll talk about like theconnection beyond just stocked an area. The
video comes out from from Chicago ofthe possible connection, which turns out isn't,
but I think that fuels this fearon top of everything else, that
anybody could be next. I thinkalso you got to think because you have
five victims, but it's drawn out, like when you have a mass shooting,

(04:38):
the extreme sorrow that you find ina community, but at the same
time you kind of the fear isover. They get the person usually in
a mass shooting, but with thisyou have not only community ties and murders
that affects the whole community. Youstill have that initial fear that is constant

(05:00):
every day. So I think,you know, I'm not saying that it's
worse than mass shootings because they're alljust horrible, horrible event, but it's
just it's different. Yeah, Andit's just that fear can just build where
you know, you either you wakeup the next day and you just kind
of get numb to it where you'relike so scared all the time. At

(05:24):
the same time, there is alsopressure from two other places. There was
kind of a narrative among some peoplethat police weren't being as upfront as they
could. The video that Sean talkedabout in our last episode from the two
or nine times who had come outand said that there was a serial killer
in town and police weren't telling you, and then the next day police told
everybody about it. But that kindof fueled the idea that there was information

(05:47):
that they were holding back from thepublic. And the second big pressure was
from attention from outside of Stockton.Not only was the press focusing on these
crimes, but also things like socialmedia and just the negative way that's Stockton
always gets discussed. I think aroundhere, we're kind of again around northern
California and maybe other parts of Californiatoo, we're almost used to the way

(06:09):
Stockton is portrayed in the media.Oh, it's it's a bad report coming
out of Stockton. And again,as you mentioned last episode, and we've
mentioned a few times Jessica. LikeJessica and I lived in Stockton for a
lot of years, and I thinkI'm not the only one to say I
do think of it as kind ofa second hometown. You know, we
weren't born in Stockton, but wehave claimed it for our home for long

(06:30):
enough to be it is holds avery spatial place in our family's heart.
And so I can understand the defensivenessof a lot of people in Stockton when
you talk about those kind of things, and they do come to Stockton's defense
a lot because of that. Ithink that that scrutiny from outside and oh,
it's something else that's terrible that's happeningin town. But that's also another

(06:53):
kind of like Sean was talking about, that tragedy that's drawn out, it's
reopening all the wounds of all ofthe other bad things that have happened.
And it's no different than any othermedium to large size city anywhere that you
live. There are bad things thathappen, but the resiliency of the people
that live there is what really matterswith so much focus on their murders.

(07:15):
The city of Stockton was on edge, and the police attempted to answer any
questions that they could. They warn'tpeople not to be out late and not
to be alone and unlitten places.They had the kind of two person rule,
always be with someone else whenever you'regoing places. And even that kind
of advice is pretty scary when youthink about going about your day to day,
and these are things some people can'tcontrol. I mean, I think

(07:36):
about the people who work at Popeye's. We talked about they closed around ten
or ten thirty. They're getting offwork. There might be a couple of
them at a time, but ay, that's just what's happened in the past.
Someone can change up what they're doing, and that's just sort of terrifying.
People have different work hours, andit's just I don't know, that's
a lot to think about. Andit is different if you live in a

(07:58):
small town or you're listening to thislive in a small town. Most of
us that have or do live insmall or more royalies. Now, you
know, past sundown, everything kindof closes down, you know, and
so you have almost the same kindof rhythm to the place but in a
place like Stockton or other central Californiatown, you know, or we're larger
thinking like San Francisco, La.Those kind of places, they don't shut

(08:20):
down. There's people doing stuff allyou know, there's night shift workers,
there's you know, people going abouttheir their daily or nightly business. So
the idea that somebody's out there attackingpeople at random is tremendously frightening. In
light of that, a community meetingwas held to answer questions and to talk
to you know, the public andthe press with others. And this meeting

(08:43):
we actually went to was on Octoberfifth, twenty twenty two, and Charles
is going to tell you a littlebit about it. This was one of
a series of community meetings that theStockton government was going to hold to answer
questions about violence, and specifically gunviolence in Stockton. The fact that happened

(09:05):
to coincide with this series of shootingswas not this meaning wasn't staged just for
that. So some of the informationthat we're going to share is really about
Stockton in general and it's dealing withgun violence. The stuff about the Stockton
serial killer really kind of got sandwichedin at the end, so it happened
on October fifth. As you said, it was organized by a group called

(09:28):
Faith in the Valley, and theFaith in the Valley group is an inter
denominational religious and secular group that's kindof made up of community organizers, different
churches, different church leaders, andtheir goal really is to work within the
communities to do outreach, to helpat risk people, to help combat some

(09:48):
of the you know, issues ofaround violence and poverty, and really kind
of make communities a better place.It was held at a church called the
Victory in Praise Church, which islocated South Stockton. I believe it was
chosen because some of the congregation therebelonged to Faith in the Valley as well
as the venue was large enough tohold the crowd. What struck us when

(10:11):
we came there really was there weredozens of media outlets. There was at
least at least six or seven mediavans. There was everyone with a camera,
was lined up television cameras. Therewas some print journalism, and I
believe some Internet citizen journalists there aswell, like we were. The tenor

(10:33):
of the meeting really started out asa very pro Stockton meeting. A lot
of the community members spoken as thewelcome was talking about what a good place
Stockton really is. I think almosteveryone, with the exception of two people
were stocked In natives. Everyone thatgot up and spoke talked about their deep

(10:54):
love for the place and the rootsthat they had there, whether they were
long time residents, whether they wereborn and raiser, or whether like like
we were, we had moved there, you know, and lived for a
time. The main focus on themeeting was on public safety and stopping gun
violence, as we said, notabout the serial killer. They restated the

(11:15):
vision of Stockton from the government's website, which is quote Stockton will become the
best city in America to live,raise a family, and build a business,
and that gets echoed a lot throughoutthis entire I will say the governmental
portion of this meeting, because reallythis meeting kind of had three parts to
it. The first is kind ofthe welcome, the reason why we're here

(11:35):
in the mission statement. The secondwas really a deep dive into what the
government is doing around gun violence.And the third part of the meeting really
had to focus on on the Stocktonserial killer. With some comments from from
the audience. One of the thingsthat really stood out is the amount of

(11:58):
data that Stockton uses when looking atissues of gun violence. Stockton over since
twenty and twelve, has been keepingpretty pretty extensive records on violence, types
of violence, types of crime,and they're using that data to then look
and try to suss out possible causesand then looked to the data to try

(12:22):
to find areas that they could addressthose. And if I remember correctly,
you you maybe remember better because youtook a lot of notes. This was
one of the ways they first connectedthat these crimes might be more similar than
first thought, right, and andso, and this is kind of the
ironic thing is we've talked a lotabout the negative portrayal of Stockton and the
media and buy a lot of people. When you when they initially looked at

(12:46):
the data, is that historically sincetwenty twelve, violence in Stockton is on
a downward trend. There are somespikes, and this year particularly is higher
than it has been in the lastyear. And I think, like you
said, that's one thing that theyrealize really quickly. Wait, we have
a spike in murders, specifically,you know, violent gun murders of strangers.

(13:07):
That okay, there's there's something goingon and That's when they looked at
it and their their next leap was, Okay, what what's the data telling
us? Where do we look forthat? And that was interesting to me
because we don't often hear about howpolice are using data to to to I
guess sus out reasons and and andcombat that. The other thing that the

(13:33):
as it progressed again city leaders,we had the mayor of Stockton, the
police chief, and the city managerall got up and spoke to varying levels
of how you know, this isa good place. We are doing our
best, but in relation to crime, they're putting it back on the community
and saying we need your help.We need you to say something. If
you see something, say something.We need you to, you know,

(13:56):
call in. We need to hasto be zero tolerance. If you see
something going on, you know,please let us know, which I thought
was interesting. Eventually, there willbe some comments from the crowd, specifically
from Stockton residents living in areas thatwould be historically places of higher crime,
saying that they felt that it wastoo much being put on the community and

(14:20):
not enough answers from from city governmentofficials and the police of what are they
doing. It's it's in fact,one lady commented, if you're you're telling
me that I have to police myown neighborhood where you know, we I
don't feel safe to walk down thestreet. And I did feel that the
police chief did take kind of onus on that and say, we are
walking the neighborhoods, we are tryingto come to you the community, and

(14:45):
the community organizers of the event too, also said that they are organizing more
of these events in places that historicallyor have not necessarily been targets of community
events. One of the things thatalso mentioned in relation to that was that
there are not as many Stockton policeas they you know, have budgeted for.

(15:07):
That they're down on people, andso when you're not seeing them in
your neighborhoods or around the areas wherepeople have been murdered, that has to
also, I think create even morefear for people when there's a serial killer
on the loose. Yeah. Ithought that was kind of interesting because the
city manager actually came from Cincinnati beforeStockton, and one of the comments he
makes is that the amount of policethat they had for Cincinnati was somewhere and

(15:33):
we'll put some of these stats upon our website on California and true crime.
There there were somewhere in the neighborhoodof one thousand I think one thousand,
one hundred police officers around there.For the city of Cincinnati comparable,
Stockton has four less than four hundredand fifty officers. The average were about

(15:54):
twenty or thirty officers lower than theaverage in Californi. So you're already trying
to do a big job with lessand less employees, and those are not
necessarily all patrolling officers. That's fourless than four hundred and fifty officers in
uniform period. That means everybody fromfrom working in the office for the people

(16:15):
on dispatch. That's the entire department, and not everyone has the same days
off for days on, so it'seven less one hundred percent and there.
And if you're anywhere in northern California, you've probably seen advertisements on billboards and
placards Stockton is looking for police.They have since they talked about their agency

(16:37):
work so and I think again beingfrom the area, we see a lot
of that. But it was itwas great to get that message out to
the broader audience of Stockton is workingto get better they're working with ATF agents.
They've been working with FBI for quitea few years. They talked about
AIG a big arrest that happened afew years back, that was a big
gang arrest between inner agencies. Butagain the focus was keeping people safe and

(17:00):
what can the community do. AndI think there some of that message may
have rung a little hollow. Twopeople came to this, to this meeting
wanting more answers rather than just ifyou see something, say something and you
have to protect yourself. We getto the kind of the the the last
part of the meeting, and thisis this is directly I think this is

(17:22):
what all the cameras were showed upfor originally. And it's when they really
start to get into the questions aboutthis, you know, uh, the
at that time unknown person committing thesethese murders. The question was from the
audience are almost instantly when they openit up, is is there a task
force set aside to help the Postoccapolice with tracking down this suspect at that

(17:48):
time suspect. The police chief answeredthat they were working with FBI, Sheriff's
DA and ATF as well as localpolice were all kind of working on the
same on the same team at thattime. They did talk about a description,
and this again was before the arrest. The description they had a was
an awkward stride that was talked aboutin the two on nine video. They

(18:12):
also put him somewhere between five tenand six feet and somewhere around eight one
hundred and eighty pounds, which isnot a really definite description, but it
was what they had to share.One of the things that I think did
stand out about this and what wasbrought up in it, again showed some
of the disparity between different parts ofthe community is that there was not there

(18:37):
was not adequate Spanish translation for themeeting that night. I think they had
one translator for one group, butthere was a large group of Spanish speaking
stock in residence. And one ofthe concerns they brought up was the fact
that so many of their loved oneswere working out on farms and ranches,
but we're leaving their house at twoand three clock in the morning. And

(19:00):
they really spoke to the fear inthe community of not feeling safe and not
feeling protected by by the government andthe police in general. I think some
of the you know, the responsethat was got back was if you're waiting
outside, you might want to waitinside, which, again it sounds I

(19:22):
understand the point, but it soundedkind of hollow. I can understand why
you would say it sounds kind ofhollow. I think, you know,
what do you tell someone who hasto wait outside in the early mornings for
their job when you know that's avery real concern, is that people are
out alone. And that was somethingI hadn't even thought about. Here in
the Central Valley. Obviously, thereare a lot of people working in the
agricultural industry and they're getting picked upvery early. They're waiting for rides.

(19:47):
And a good portion of the peoplewho had been murdered were characterized as Hispanic,
and this isn't This is a groupthat I felt in that meeting,
they felt that maybe they hadn't beenspecifically talked and warned and didn't get the
help that they needed and how todeal with this. Um So, I
think they were giving them as bestinformation as they could, but I can

(20:10):
understand why they were scared, andmaybe if this was just me, I
could feel some of the room kindof seize up at that at that answer
from the police. The police chiefof you know, maybe not understanding the
depth of their of their feelings.Um now, I will say that the
group did had publicly stated that theywere going to rededicate time to meet with

(20:34):
those communities, specifically the Spanish speakingcommunities that felt that they were that they
needed to be heard. And Ithought that was that was good because it
wasn't something it really felt genuine,and that was coming that that they at
least heard that there was a concernthat they wanted to address in a way
that may have fit the needs ofthe of the people a little bit easier

(20:55):
than a large scale meeting. Andif I remember correctly, one of the
things they specifically said was that theyhad been trying to work with Spanish media,
which is not something I had eventhought of. Well as well,
again, you know that these everyoneseems like they're covering this case, and
so they're giving information to the pressand it disseminates to the public. We're
supposed to stay safe, you know, as much as possible, stay with

(21:18):
people and stay home if we can. But if you're not able to get
that too also other kinds of media, then certain people are left out of
getting that information. In Northern Californiahas it, well, all of California
does, has really extensive Spanish mediaoutlets. We have newspapers, we have
radio stations, and so the factthat they were they were working with those

(21:41):
agencies was again shows that they're tryingto put their money where their mouth is.
Now. Speaking of money, therewas a question about funneling money.
Earlier in the presentation. They talkeda lot about you know, grants that
were coming in and how that moneywas being used, and one of the
people when the audience asked, isthe money being funneled into the correct places?

(22:02):
And this is where the city manager, the mayor, and the police
chief all talked about the fact thatthey had a million dollar grant was being
funneled into a mobile crisis center sothat when things happened in certain communities,
in certain parts of Stockton, thismobile crisis center would be able to go
out and help with those those individuals. Again, I think this is a

(22:22):
way of trying to put a morepositive spin on it and show some of
the things that Stockton's trying to doto combat gun violence in the wake of,
you know, these series of killingsthat they're dealing with. The big
takeaway from the meeting. Honestly,and we've said this is the majority of
the meeting was not about the serialkiller. It was about gun violence and

(22:44):
Stockton, and I felt a littlefrustration of there was no real new information
that they gave. It was reportedlater by one of the news agencies that
was there, CACR A three,which is a large Northern California news agency.
They interviewed a couple people that cameout of the meeting. One of
these was the Kayla Beasley. Shewas quoted as saying, quote, I

(23:06):
expected them to talk about the killings, whoever is doing all of these killings.
That's what I thought the majority ofthis meeting was going to be about,
not about the safety of the city. And again I think there was
that miscommunication of that's what people cameto that meeting expecting to hear. Some
people in attendance and told KCRI Everythree that they wanted to learn more about
how the police department planned to solvethe serial killings, like what were you

(23:29):
actually doing, and not again aboutwhat they had been done historically. Beasley
also continues, quote the biggest concernin the city right now, a lot
of people are scared to come outat night. A Richard Stoickel, who
attended the town hall, says,quote a lot of the politicians and mayor
haven't really said anything about it,meaning the serial killings, except for the

(23:52):
good stuff about Stockton. The peopleare here not to talk about the good
stuff, but they want to talkabout the upticks in murders of the serial
killer. Unquote. Well, Ican from seeing that you get to this
meeting and you're you know, you'rein this town, and you're you have
the fear like we talked about.I can see their frustration when and then

(24:12):
it's just like, oh, we'redoing a great job, and that makes
a lot of sense that you canstill get really frustrated because you haven't at
this point, they hadn't caught anyoneyet and people are dying, so to
pat yourself on the back during thistime is harder. I wasn't at the
meeting, so I don't know ifthat's how it felt, but from these,

(24:33):
from these quotes, that's how itsounded like it felt. Yeah,
I'll echo that. I think initiallyit might have been you know, oh,
we're all here for a good reason. We're here because we love Stockton.
We were you know, we claimit as our home and we want
it to do better and we wantto help make the city better. But

(24:56):
I think, you know, themeeting was a little over two hours,
but the majority of that just keptsounding the same kind of thing, here's
what we're doing, here's what we'redoing, and it didn't address the major
question that was hanging over everyone's headis there's somebody doing something terrible in our
city, and what are you doingto solve that and make me feel safer
or what are you doing it tokeep me safer? And I don't think

(25:18):
we had that. So one ofthe things they did talk about was the
task force or the group that theywere putting together to help solve this case.
Again, this is before they hadmade an arrest. And one of
the things I found really interesting isthat they talked about bringing in people who
specialized not just in surveillance video,but in getting that video, if that

(25:41):
makes sense. So there are camerasaround Stockton, or there there are places
where there might be cameras at businessesor homes, and bringing in people who
know how to look at geographic areasand time periods and when things might have
happened in order to go out andget the camera recordings that they need.
I found that really really interest because'ssomething I haven't thought about before. I
mean, we have all these camerasthat are constantly going, but you need

(26:03):
someone who knows what they're doing specificallyto pull out, Oh, this is
a few blocks from here, butat this time, it might be a
good place to look at which carsare driving by or which people are walking
by. I found that really fascinating, and I think again that was something
to me that spoke to Stockton havingto do things a bit differently than the
places Because I imagine some larger cities, or even maybe some cities that are

(26:25):
a comparable size, they may havean IT department or a video department that
maybe have staff. But Stockton,because it's it's a smaller police department,
has to think outside the box,has to go to outside agencies and really
be flexible enough to try different thingsin order to make sure that they're doing
what they can, you know,and which they did in this case arresting

(26:49):
the suspect that's suspected of doing thesekillings. They also mentioned the ATF and
this will become a very important partnerhere for those that don't know, the
ATF is the Bureau of Alcohol,Tobacco, Firearms and Explosive and in this
case, one of the most importantthings that they do is run the National
Integrated Ballistic Information Network. In thelast few years, there have been huge

(27:14):
advancements in this forensic technology, andspecifically what we're talking about is bullet matches.
So the goal is to create asystem in which ballistic information can be
used and be just as useful asDNA, just as scientifically valid. I
believe there are a hundred different waysto look at a bullet currently and to
see if they match another bullet,and they run the information network where you

(27:37):
could put in in one place,put a bullet in, as we know
they did here in Stockton, andthen saw that it matched a bullet in
Oakland for the first two the firstmurder and the attempted murder. And in
a case like this where there isjust not a lot of other evidence,
matching bullets to a gun and fromcrime scene to crime scene is going to
be very, very, very important. They actually had the ATF come out
and do a press conference and talkabout what they do. I think we

(28:00):
could do a whole episode on thisbecause some of the advancements in this area
have been amazing. It was alsoannounced that there was a reward for information
leading to the arrest and conviction ofthe person or persons responsible for these crimes.
And they keep saying person or personsbecause they made it very clear that
it could be one person or couldbe multiple people. Every single day it

(28:22):
seemed that reward money was increased.Many government organizations gave money, the ATF
gave money to them, a privatedonor donated anonymously, so I think it
ended up about one hundred and twentyfive thousand dollars for information for the reward,
and police said at that meeting thatwe were at that they were getting
about one hundred tips a day.The chief of police in Stockton and the

(28:45):
police in general will also asked othercities in California especially, but also around
the entire country to take a lookat their caseloads see if they might have
crimes that fit with a kind ofmurders that have been committed in Stockton and
Oakland. And one of the thingsthat law enforced noticed was there was over
a year between the first two crimesand then the murders that happened in Stockton,
So I think they were concerned thatmaybe more crimes had happened during that

(29:08):
time period, and we're just askinganyone to let them know and to you
know, connect other cases if possible. So what I thought of when I
was looking at this that the secondone was the woman didn't die, and
so it could have been in thepaper that you know, attempted murder of

(29:29):
a woman and he got really scared. That's why there was such a huge
break in between. So that wasjust my thought when I initially saw that.
But yeah, there might still bemore that we don't know of.
Yeah, there is a lot oftime between those first two crimes and then
the other five that happened in Stockton. So I know that a lot of

(29:51):
people have been trying to figure outwhy there's been that term. I think
it's really hard because I tried tofind another name other than Stockton serial killer.
To you, that's what the mediahas been referring to him as.
But you know, we've talked beforeabout the media giving people names or even
branding someone a serial killer. Itkind of gives people this idea that that
it is weird that there's a periodof time where this person didn't act.

(30:15):
When we know there are lots ofserial killers quote unquote who do go dormant
for pretty large amount of times.Police also begin reaching out to people who
are most at risk, the unhoused, and just to give you an idea
of what's happening in Stockton, theSan Joaquin County Continuum of Care, which
is an organization developed by a grantat the US Department of Housing and Urban

(30:37):
Development, does a point in timecount every two years to get better data
to understand the conditions of homeless peoplein you know, how many there are
and the conditions that they're living inin San Joaquin County. According to them,
in San Joaquin County, as ofJanuary twenty twenty two, there are
approximately two three hundred nineteen homeless individualsliving in the area and of those,

(31:03):
one thousand, three hundred and fiftyfive were unsheltered. According to the data,
which was collected by over three hundredplus volunteers in the area, sixty
six percent of those unsheltered were inStockton. And just so people better understand,
this is looking at all of thepeople who are quote unquote homeless living
in Sandwikin County, and they're separatingout people who are unsheltered from those who

(31:26):
have shelters. So you're still homelessor unhoused. But on any given night,
you might sleep or living your car, you might go to a shelter,
you might live on a couch ata friend's house, you might move
place to place, and unsheltered meansthat you're actually on the street, so
you don't have a shelter over yourhead. There was a lot of fear,
specifically among the unsheltered population. Thepolice canvass areas to talk with people

(31:51):
and hand out tips for staying safe, as well as pictures of the person
of interest. On October thirteenth,two and twenty two, Police Chief McFadden
walked through an encampment near Oak Streetin Stockton to talk with people living there
and to give those tips out.It's also important to know that Stockton has
a lot of people on the groundand a lot of organizations helping the unhoused

(32:12):
population even when something like this isn'tgoing on, and those people will continue
to do that. Community health centers, churches, various county services are there
all the time. And on thisday, you know, police were really
piggybacking on their efforts. But thereis an issue with that too, is
because the unhoused community does not alwayshave the best relationship with the police department,

(32:37):
especially in a place like Stockton hasa long history of dealing with unhoused
individuals and unsheltered So I can onlyimagine that that that's another giant hurdle because
you're having to overcome a lot ofthose the negative interactions and a lot of
the hostility that's gone on between thetwo groups while trying to keep them safe.

(33:00):
And I bet it makes it worsein these situations like this where it's
like the on housed goes, oh, now you want to help me when
it makes you look better, orstuff like that. You know, I
don't think these situations make it anybetter because there's so many times off the
radar when they need help, andnow that it's like under a microscope of
what's going on in the city,I bet it makes tensions worse between the

(33:22):
police and children. I mean,I could be completely wrong, but that's
how I feel. No, andI think that to me, that's that's
one thing that at least from thecommunity meeting and from things that really reported
That's one thing that I think Stocktonis trying to do more of is work
with those community groups in those areasthat are already working with those populations to

(33:43):
say that we are on the sameside and maybe try to heal a few
of those riffs, you know,however ineffectual it might be. I'm also
saying in general, I'm not talkingdown on Stockton. I'm just thinking of
police and unhoused in general. Ofany population, I think that would be
that would be the issue no matterwhat, you know, what city,

(34:05):
this kind of crime would go onto. I think most police departments don't
always have the best relationship with thatpopulation. I think one of the smart
things that police do here because Stocktonhas really been a leader, especially in
the Central Valley in this area,dealing with homeless policy, they have a
lot more programs and policies than alot of other cities. It's also meant

(34:29):
that cities have sent people who areon house to Stockton, so it's been
kind of a burden for them inthat way. They can't absorb all of
California's issues, but they are alsoworking on a lot of really unique and
interesting policies, and so you alreadyhave people who are out in these communities,
and so for them to go outon their own would probably be,

(34:51):
like Shanna saying, even worse thanwhat they do here, which is go
with people who are already trusted,with people that the homeless population knows,
and hand out this inform nation,which I think is really important. The
difficulty, though, is it soundedlike they were mainly going to or you
know, obviously we don't see allof it, but on this day they
went to an area where there arethere's a community of people who are unsheltered,

(35:13):
and a lot of what's happening areto people who aren't with others.
They're spread around the city there inplaces that aren't as easily accessible, and
you know, you're hoping that thatinformation will still reach them somehow. But
as both of you said, theyreally need people to come forward and people
to talk with them, and that'sdifficult when you know your homelessness can exist
for a lot of different reasons.If you're mentally ill, you might not

(35:36):
trust police. If you're addicted todrugs, you might not trust police,
And you might not trust them justbecause sometimes police are known to arrest almost
people for being homeless, and Ithink you both made up good points with
that. One of the interesting thingshere is also that the chief of police,
Stanley McFadden, had only been chiefof police in Stockton since June of
twenty and twenty two. So thisis all having a time when people are

(36:00):
us getting to know him and whenyou know, some communities like the on
house population might not know him atall. So that's a lot for someone
to take on. Well, yeah, we've had like the mayor, Kevin
Lincoln, who was elected in twentyand twenty. The city manager was came

(36:22):
on board in February of twenty twentyone, I believe, like a kind
of a right at the just asthe lockdown was starting, and the chief
of police just from this year.So you have three brand new city officials.
In Lincoln's case, it's his firstjob in government. You know,

(36:46):
both the city manager and police chiefhave held other officers, but together it's
the first time. This is reallythe first big you know, I will
say, other than the pandemic,you know, a huge thing that they've
dealt with as a governmental triumph.It Hello and welcome to Nopefille, the

(37:07):
city filled with all the terrifying andhorrible things that make you say nope,
Nope. Where your tour guides.I'm Jen and I'm Christine, and we
invite you to join our tours throughthe city, including all things paranormal,
true crime, and supernatural, fromhaunted places to possessions, from serial killers
to cults, from zombies to cryptids. You can find out more on our

(37:30):
website at nopefill podcast dot com andcatch a tour today wherever you get your
podcasts. So as I said.According to the Stockturne Record, when they
went to the homeless encampment, theyhanded out tips that included walking close to
the curb, staying in lit areasand out of bushes, alleys, even

(37:52):
doorways or somewhere anywhere someone could bein hide, making eye contact with people
when walking, keeping car doors lockedwhen driving, staying on main lit roads
when driving if they feel someone isfollowing them in their car, to drive
to the police station or the firestation, to walk confidently at a steady
pace, not to respond a conversationfrom strangers on the street, and to

(38:13):
keep your car in good running order. At that time, police spokesperson Joe
Silva made it clear that they didn'tknow if the killer or killers have followed
victims before. But he did describethe attacks quote an ambush. So I
think it's important not to take anyinformation for granted. And I think,
you know, when I was firstlistening to all this, and it did

(38:35):
remind me of like both the Sonof Sam in both senses, where it's
just in both sense where it was, you know, the story that Son
of Sam was David Berkowitz, oreven that it's this huge conspiracy of like
this huge cult of people killing people, but that was like they would sneak
up on them, just in acar kind of style, same kind of

(38:59):
ambush, and they're saying person orpersons. So that's how I kind of
thought of it when I was firstlistening to this whole thing. So Stockton
on the Hole was on edge.One of the other groups we've already kind
of alluded to that was on edgeis the Hispanic population. There are a
lot of people in the newspapers whoare discussing changing their entire routines. Stockton

(39:22):
is a commuter town, so peopleare also getting up and going to Sacramento,
going to the Bay Area. Sopeople are making sure that they're they're
not you know, doing things intheir car that they might normally do,
wait for it to warm up,check their emails, make some calls that
they're just kind of staying in theirhomes or on the road as much as
possible. About forty percent of Stockton'spopulation is Hispanic, so while the police

(39:44):
still don't know if they were beingtargeted, five out of the seven victims
were Hispanic men, so that wasvery much a cause for worry. Social
media also played a huge role inthis Please put out information on Facebook and
other sites. There were also severalgroups started on Facebook with the intention of
citizens loothing helping to solve this crime. There were also the bad aspects of

(40:06):
social media. I saw a lotof people, you know, people are
scared, so they're taking pics intheir neighborhood. They're using stuff they see
on their rings, pictures of peopleat just at their front door, or
you know, people who had allegedlycommitted crimes and throwing those up on social
media and saying, hey, maybeit's this guy, which can be,
for obvious reasons, very dangerous,so they actually put You saw some that

(40:27):
put like names out. I didn'tsee names, but I saw lots of
ring pictures at front doors of people. I don't know if any of those
will turn out to be connected inany way, but that made me very
uneasy to see. Yeah, andit is kind of a scary thing where
everyone has a camera. But Ido recall even at that meeting before the

(40:50):
suspect was arrested, the police chiefcalling it out and saying, please check
your cameras. You never know whenyou caught something. So you have a
city officials go back and look atthat. So I can see how that
would even fuel you know, youhave the echo chamber of like all these
pictures coming out and we're all onyou know, on edge, and is
it my neighbor? Is it?Who is that that picture? And then

(41:12):
you start going through and see somebodywalking by that you don't recognize and throwing
that up and does anybody recognize thisperson? So it's it's it's kind of
a feeding into the machines. Butthen you have like you have like this
witch's cauldron of everyone throwing those picturesinto it and stirring it up to make
this horrible potion of like hundreds ofpeople that probably were just could have been

(41:37):
dropping off a pamphlet for a pestcontrol, and you know, now they're
in this this like social media frenzyof this could be a murderer. So
that's taking the pictures to the police. Yeah, I totally understand that.
But how we just all of asudden throw it on social media and go
what's this? Right? And thatthat's very snaric. It's a it's that

(41:58):
double edge sort of your community.You know, we're all looking at because
I can see that, you know, I see a strange person on my
ring, I may throw it outto my social media group and say,
does anybody recognize this person? Oh, you know that's cousin Pete, or
that's our that's our that's our Amazondelivery person. And you know they're not
wearing a uniform or whatever. Youknow, but that can, like you

(42:21):
said, Sean, that can leadto that can lead to some dark places
if it goes unchecked. Right.I think it's one of those things too,
that a little information is dangerous becauseyou don't know what this person looked
like. Oh we have is thepicture and the small video, and I
do think in that video you cansee he walks strange, and so you
think that could mean something. Butwhen you think about all the people who

(42:42):
might walk a little differently or limp, or it just becomes very dangerous.
And I also think it's really importantif you think that could be the person
to protect the future trial, goto the police, like Sean is saying,
but I can understand the tendency.You know, there's a lot of
fervor and people are scared to doit. I think this goes back all
the way to our first season wherewe were talking about an FBI agent.

(43:07):
It could have been Branek who said, if someone tells you the suspect was
in a jeep, you constantly seejeeps everywhere. So it's like, once
it's in your head, like you'resaying the walk, you're looking at everyone's
walk from then on. So,oh, I know we did. I

(43:29):
mean we all had that conversation whenwe saw that video of like Okay,
on my way home from work,it was like looking at people walking down
the street, going are they limping? Are they limping? I don't leave
anywhere near Stockton anymore, But itwas just that that immediate and see of
that's what I'm focused in on.Then on Saturday October fifteenth, twenty twenty

(43:49):
two, the police gave word tothe press in the public that they had
a big announcement, and at threepm Pacific Standard time, they told the
rule that they had made an arrestand just a quick warning here, we
are going to talk about the manthat police have arrested and that they allege
is responsible for these crimes. Butevidence has not been given to the public.
This person has not played guilty,they have not been found guilty.

(44:13):
So we will use the word allegea lot because that's step. It's not
simply performative, it's an important one, and we want not just anyone held
responsible for these crimes. We wantthe person who committed them. So we'll
give you all the public information wecould find available about the arrest in the
suspect, but please note that heis innocent until proven guilty. According to

(44:35):
Stockton PD, at approximately two amon October fifteenth, they arrested forty three
year old Wesley Brownlee. The policehad become aware of Brownley's possible connection to
this case by tips. That's allwe really know. Even in this moment
in time. They believed he couldbe their person of interest, so they
had a surveillance team watching him andhis apartment on the morning of the fifteenth,

(44:58):
he left his home. He gotin his are and was driving when
police believed for the safety of others, they would intervene and make the arrest.
When they arrested him, he waswearing dark clothing and had a dark
mask with him. He also hada firearm in his waistband. Police have
since alleged that they believed his actionscould be described as quote hunting or looking
for another victim. He was arrestedon Winslow Way and Village Green Drive in

(45:22):
Stockton. When I first read that, I didn't like how they used the
term hunting. I felt that wasoverdramatic. No, I think it's it's
definitely leading you to a very specificconclusion. It's an evocative choice of word,
right, That's what. Yeah,it could have just been that he
might have been looking for another victim, like he said, which I think

(45:43):
is a better way to word.But I'm not the police and I'm not
a press conference person, so I'llput that out there. He was charged
with three murders, those of JonathanHernandez Rodriguez, Wong Cruise, and Lawrence
or sometimes he's referred to as laurenZo Lopez. These were the most recent
murders. It's really important to knowthat even though they believe they have the

(46:06):
correct person in custody, all ofthese crimes happen to people who were alone.
To our knowledge, they weren't caughton camera. The camera footage that
we do know about, and itsounds like there maybe more puts him in
the area, but it may taketime to build a case. The Sanwaque
County District Attorney, Tory Verber Salazar, expects to charge Brownley with two more
murders Alameda County, where Serrano wasmurdered, where that's where Oakland is.

(46:30):
Has said that they don't know ifcharges will be filed against him there.
They are working on the case andthey're looking for evidence. They also allege
that they have cell phone evidence puttinghim in the vicinity of some of the
crimes. Again, this is evidencewe haven't seen, we don't know much
about. So that's important just toremember. And we've talked about it before
about cell phone evidence with like pingingand stuff, and it seems like maybe

(46:54):
because there's so many different spots inthis one that it might be easier to
say, look, he's right there. But we talked about how it's not
like the most pinpoint accurate with cellphone pinging. So when that was brought
up, I thought that was interestingbecause we've talked about it before, especially
like in the Pinion Pines episode PinionPines. Yeah, Pinion Pines was very

(47:17):
all about cell phone pinging. ButI will say this though, the times
that they're saying that his cell phoneis in there are low traffic times,
when when we've talked about in thepast with Pinion Pines, it had to
do with higher cell phone traffic times. So I think that that that if
it gets down to or that thatminute detail in the evidence that might be

(47:38):
something that they bring up. Isit. I understand what you're saying,
but I just think how the deventscould say reasonable doubt just in case.
You know, but it does completelymake sense what you just said. We're
yeah, it's three am, fouram, five am, and you're at
all these different places around the city. So but it makes sense. Well
know it does because I think whenwe when we saw that piece of evidence

(48:00):
early on in one of the reportsof like, oh they have his cell
phone. I know Jessica and Iwere in the car and you know,
and and talking about this, andthat was the first thing out of our
out of our brain was like,oh, it's it's pinning pines all over
again. They're gonna they're gonna usethat, and that science is not necessarily
always But having read a couple ofthings lately about that and then really focusing

(48:22):
in on refining that again like ballistics, we know that ballistics is not necessarily
always an exact but as as timegoes on and the technology gets better and
the science gets better, them understanding, Oh, those cell phone pinnings has
to do with the amount of trafficcoming into cell phone tower and the time
and day affecting that. I thoughtthat was interesting, And is it pinning

(48:44):
anymore? Could it have been likehe just had maps on so like GPS
capital Yeah, I mean it couldbe anything from that to just less specific.
You know, we don't We couldn'tput him in a specific place,
but on most nights his cell phonestays at his house, and on these
nights crimes also happened that they wereout and about town type of things.
So it may not be used asspecifically, but in conjunction with other it's

(49:07):
not damning evidence on its own,but it's a piece of evidence. It's
a circumstantial piece of evidence that,when stacked up with everything else, is
pointing to a suspect being the personthe correct person arrested exactly. I also
want to talk just real quick aboutwhat a ghost gun is, because police
in the district attorney alleged that that'swhat he was using. A ghost gun

(49:29):
is a gun that the person putstogether themselves. You can buy these in
kits, so you can get them. They are legal here in California,
but you can get them in otherstates. You can get them over the
internet. You can get them atgun shows usually. And I don't know
what this gun is like in particular, but I believe people can also three
D print them. So it's nota gun that's bought from a manufacturers.

(49:52):
It's assembled after the fact from spareparts or a custom made part. Yeah,
and they in theory, it shouldbe able to avoid a lot of
the connections other guns have. Thereisn't a number associated with that weapon,
but as we've seen here, bullettechnology has gotten better, so there are
ways to connect that gun, perhapsto other to bullets. Brownlee is also

(50:14):
being charged as a felon in possessionof a firearm. He has a criminal
background, though nothing like what he'sbeing accused of here. He was born
in the Bay Area and lived fora time in Oakland. It appears he
still has family in the area andhe lived himself in the Seminary neighborhood.
That's the neighborhood we talked about beforewhere Serrano was killed. He is one
of six kids. We are goingto share information about his criminal background.

(50:37):
This is information that has been reportedwidely, though initially it was KTVU who
were able to get a hold ofhis probation report that had a lot of
his personal information in it. Someof this happened when he was a juvenile,
which is always tricky to talk about, especially in a case where someone
hasn't been convicted. So at agefourteen, he was accused of sexually assaulting

(50:58):
a girl his age to know.He was not found guilty of this crime.
He did not play guilty to thiscrime. He did say that he
didn't do it, but it appearsthat he testified against the other boys who
were also accused, and we onlyhave very bare minimum on the details that
were giving you here. In nineteenninety nine and two thousand and one,
he was convicted of selling drugs inAlameda County. That's the county that Oakland

(51:22):
is in. He was also arrestedfor this as a juvenile and at the
age of eighteen. After his parolein two thousand and one, he was
put on probation and after three yearswas let off. After Brownley left jail,
he lived with his mother in Stockton. According to KTVU, his older
brother died at the age of seventeenon East sixteenth Street in Oakland. In
two and fourteen, Brownley was againarrested for selling drugs in Oakland, very

(51:45):
near where his brother was killed.He went to jail and was released.
Most of his criminal record is drugbased him selling drug In this report,
it also said that Brownley was quotevery distressed over his brother's death, and
his mother requested that he try toget some mental health help. It also
described him as quote mentally slow andlearning disabled. He did not finish high

(52:07):
school. On Monday October twenty fourth, twenty and twenty two, there was
a hearing regarding a gag order thatwould have applied to the prosecution and the
defense. Brownley's defense requested this orderto protect their client from receiving an unfair
trial if jury members were to beswayed by information coming out about the case.

(52:28):
Basically, the gag order would meanthat both the defense and the prosecution
and the police wouldn't be allowed togive press conferences or interviews or share information
publicly. Public defender Alison Nobert arguedthat any information given out to the press
in things like press conferences threatened herclient's right to a fair trial. In
a case cra article, reporter BrittanyHope said that Noelbert argued that quote,

(52:52):
law enforcement has depicted Brownley as beingguilty, and that in those interviews or
press conferences, there's no one thereto push back on the information. There's
no one to challenge the information thatthey're giving out, no one to say,
well, this technology isn't really good, like like we were talking about
at pinpointing where someone is or hewas somewhere else. There's just this information

(53:14):
given to the public as if it'saccurate and real, and this person committed
this crime. I think it goestrue to what we talked about back about
the term hunting. I mean thisis when you say hunting, he wasn't
hunting deer. They were insinuating thathe was out hunting people by using that
term. So that right there kindof makes sense. And like we've talked

(53:36):
about this many of times, likea smear campaign, and they obviously arrested
him for a reason. There's tipsthat came in and everything like that.
There's probably a lot more information,but just because you sell drugs doesn't make
you a murderer. And there's alwaysthose times where they go back people try
to find well, look at this, look at that, it obviously makes
him this person, and that's nottrue. So yeah, you know,

(53:57):
I kind of understand this whole gagat ordering, but at the same time,
if it's out there already, likewell, I think this goes back
to what Jessica talked about earlier inthe episode, is that one of the
biggest reasons is to potentially head offa problem with the trial. As much
as we the public would like moreinformation, we want to know what,

(54:19):
want to happened why, the factof the matter is there's not been a
trial yet and anything that could andwe've talked about it before in other cases
that we've had that sometimes the media, sometimes the public has a larger influence
on the trial than it maybe shouldhave, and so you know, I
can see the benefit of having thisis, you know, even from a

(54:42):
prosecution standpoint, Okay, great,I can't talk. That means that there
is one less impediment for this trialto go forward, to make sure it's
done correctly, and that if thisperson is convicted, we got a conviction
that won't be overturned. And therewas a lot of speculation over the weekend
to this hearing that this gag orderrequest was actually from the prosecution because it's

(55:05):
very expensive. We talked about thisbefore having to move a trial to another
place in California. It costs alot of money, and now we're seeing
with other trials like Scott Peterson,that it's costing even more money till later,
all these years later have questions aboutwhether the trial was fair or not,
and I think trying to head thatoff, like you said, Charles,
is a really good idea. Inthis hearing, the prosecution actually argued

(55:30):
against the gag order. They saidthat they hadn't shared any more information than
necessary in this case, and thatgag order would specifically prevent them from continuing
to investigate. I mean, theyhave charged this suspect with three of the
murders, there are others. Theyare still trying to get information on and
evidence, and they're talking to allkinds of people about this, So to

(55:53):
them, it just didn't make sense. The judge in this case denied the
request so there was not currently agag order. His reasoning was that trial
in this case is probably a yearto a year and a half away,
and that media fervor had already dieddown. He did say that he doesn't
condone any inflammatory statements made to thepress and urged both sides to be very

(56:15):
mindful about what they say moving forward, and this judge can of course change
their mind at any time in thefuture. One interesting tidbit that came out
of this hearing is that when theprosecutor argued against the gag order, they
said that specifically could hinder who policeare able to talk to, and they
said that states like Texas, Arizona, Illinois, and Florida have contacted the
DA and police about similar cases thatmay be connected, which I think is

(56:39):
the first time I had seen specificstates talked about as a possibility of Also,
you know, there weren't specific casesthat were talked about or specific areas
just those state which if he followedthis case and listen to this episode.
So far, we have seen policeand the public specifically try to connect other
cases to this person. As faras other crimes that maybe connected appears that

(57:01):
that hasn't actually happened, you knowthat I haven't found those yet. But
there were some romanies on the internetbefore he was caught that he might be
connected to two murders in Chicago.Those murders are known as the Rogers Part
murders or the duck Walk murders.They happened in twenty eighteen. Stockton PD
has said there's no known connection.They actually they said they looked at it
seriously, they talked with police there, but there was just no evidence connecting

(57:23):
the two. Yeah, I foundit weird. We had talked about this
right when that information came out,and if that's what they were going off
of, was that he walked strange, we already talked about this earlier.
You know. It's like, Iunderstand maybe checking it out, but it's
just crazy that anytime someone walks bywhere there's a murder and they walk strange

(57:45):
to try to link it to this, that's just there's no They didn't say
there was ballistics or any other information. It seemed like it just went off
of that one video where he walksdown the sidewalk, So I just thought
that was it seemed like a stretch. I mean, he was all in
black and walked with a limp.But a lot of people have black clothes

(58:05):
and a lot, like we said, a lot of people walk with a
limp. And I think that's that'salways a part that we're never going to
see too. You know, whenwe look at a lot of these these
cases, and I think everyone doestoo, reads the newspaper, you look
on your online sources or archives orwhatever, is that we don't always get
exactly what the police are saying.So maybe what's report you know, maybe

(58:27):
they did have more connection connective tissuesto those cases. But I agree on
the surface for what was reported inthe news is it's it's a video kind
of grainy at that of a guywalking by on the other side of a
fence, and you're like, well, great, that literally could be anybody.
Yeah in Chicago. That's that's theother part. That's all the way
in Chicago. I think when youlook at it and this day, that

(58:50):
connection was possible before this arrest.So the you know, the media and
a lot of media actually outlets reportedon that possible connection or that they look
kind of a life all came beforethat. I know one of the cases
when when we first heard about this, and I was just kind of like
you were saying, Charles, justkind of googling some stuff. I came
across some murders in New York Cityand DC, and before I saw the

(59:12):
outcome, I saw the videos andI mean, it's a person dressed exactly
the same as both the Chicago andthe Stockton murders, walks kind of similar.
It was eerie, how similar.But in those cases there's been an
arrest already, and that that personwas also Gerald Rivard the third is his
name, was also shooting on housepeople. So it seemed like, oh,

(59:35):
these have to be connected somehow,but in the end obviously they're not.
But it's maybe more scary that there'sthat many things that could be connected.
Well, I too think, youknow, this isn't any any or
shattering news, but you know it'sbeen said before. Our brains are wired

(59:57):
to find patterns and randomness, andso we will find patterns when we look
for them. But the idea thatyou know, multiple people shooting other people
might dress in dark clothes, it'snot a huge stretch that they might have
an interesting walk. Even that's notnecessarily you know, we don't know what

(01:00:22):
caused it. Maybe they're not usedto carrying a gun or and the weight
is throwing off their stride. Maybethey hurt themselves. But I think sometimes
our brains will look for those patternsand start to see them, and then
again we're feeding the flame, like, oh, there's there's a multi state
conspiracy of these stuff, and Ithink we really have to be careful of
that. And again I think that'swhat we do, you know, amongst

(01:00:42):
the three of us, and ifyou're listening to this, that's what you're
hopefully listening for, is trying topeel that away and saying, what are
the actual facts that are being reportedand what can we verify and then trying
to separate that from the maybe someof the fear mongering and paranoid right,
because I think we do do thatin our trio. We come up with

(01:01:07):
extreme cases constantly in our head wos. But then but we don't go on
social media and post ring pictures aboutit, and maybe I shouldn't say that,
but I'm just saying I think it'snatural to talk about it all the
time. I just I don't.I try not to post it if I

(01:01:30):
don't know for certain. The otherthing we should talk about before we in
this episode is just something that iskind of bugged to me. Now that
police have a person in custody andalleged that they're responsible, people online have
been attacking and threatening his family onsocial media, including his son. It's
important that we know those people arenot responsible for the actions of their family

(01:01:52):
member or someone they knew, especiallysince you know one of the people are
attacking is a child. And Ihave seen family members of victims who are
killed have to come out and askpeople to stop. And that's really hard
to see too, because those peopleshould be grieving. They have a lot
to deal with with impending trial andall that kind of stuff. They don't

(01:02:14):
need to be also asking and worryingabout people on social media. And I
know none of our lists I'm speakingto the wrong crowd because none of our
listeners would do that, But Ithink it's just something to be aware of
that that's happening. Well, Ithink that echoes. Something that we always
always have tried to talk about tooon this show is that these crimes do

(01:02:37):
not happen in a vacuum. Thatan entire community is affected. We've talked
a lot about in this episode,in the last episode about Stockton as a
place made of people that have allbeen affected by this crime, not just
the families that are left behind afterthe suspect killed these victims, but also
the suspects family. They're dealing withtheir own set of griefs And I'm not

(01:03:01):
minimizing or trying to say anything otherthan it is a part of the entire
story and that is something that weall have to be cognizant up. Every
single victim in this series of murdersand attempted murder matters and has people who
love and care for them. Stocktonis a community where a significant amount of

(01:03:22):
violence happens every year, which meansit's also a community constantly grieving their loved
ones, their parents, their children, their brothers and sisters, cousins and
friends, their students or workmates.But it's also not just a place where
bad things happen. It's a placewith lots of amazing things and amazing people
working to make the city better andto strengthen its community. It's not perfect,

(01:03:45):
but it's a place that deserves everychance, and all seven of the
current victims of the Stockton serial killingsdeserve justice. The police, the city
of Stockton, and these victims stillneed anyone with information to come forward so
that a case can be built andthe person responsible for these crimes held accountable.
You can call the Stockton Police Departmenttip line at two nine nine three

(01:04:08):
seven eight one six seven or emailthem at Police Tips at STOCKTONCA dot gov.
You can also submit an anonymous tipto Stockton Crime Stoppers at two oh
nine nine four six six zero zero, or visit Stockton crime Stoppers dot org.

(01:04:29):
Charles will be reading Tonight's cold case. On August second, nineteen eighty
one, sixteen year old Jose Dominguezleft his home to meet with friends near
Stribley Community Park in Stockton, California. He never returned home. Initially,
police believed the teenager may have runaway, but he was never seen again
and never in contact with his family. Rose Dominguez went to Franklin High School,
where he was on the wrestling teamand played trumpet In the school's jazz

(01:04:53):
band. In nineteen eighty nine,investigators dropped charges in this case against a
person of interest when a witness recantedtheir test stimony. In twenty twenty one,
the San Juanquin Sheriff's Office recovered aset of partial remains while continuing to
investigate this current cold case. Thoseremains were undergoing DNA testing to see if
they were those of Jose Dominguez.Jose Dominguez is described by the FBI at

(01:05:15):
the time of his disappearance as awhite Hispanic male with black hair and brown
eyes. He's five feet four inchestall and one hundred and sixteen pounds.
The day he disappeared, he waswearing a T shirt with a cancer zodiac
sign and the word Chay printed onthe bottom, a pair of gray corduroy
pants, and gray tennis shoes.There is a ten thousand dollars reward from

(01:05:35):
Stockton Crime Stoppers and a five thousanddollar reward from the FBI for any information
in this case leading to an arrestand conviction. If you have any information
about the disappearance of Jose Cha Dominguez, please contact the San Juanquine County Sheriff's
Office Cold Case Unit at two onine four six eight five zero eight seven,

(01:05:57):
or the Stockton Crime Stoppers at twonine nine four six zero six zero
zero. Thank you for listening tothis episode of California True Crime on the
Darkcast Network. For a full listof sources, as well as more information
on the case, head over toour web page at California Truecrime dot com,
where you can support the show byjoining our Patreon, which has the

(01:06:19):
option of ad free episodes. Ourweb store is up and running with some
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(01:06:43):
or tell a friend to get theword out about Californy True Crime.
We'd like to thank our quality controlengineer, Melanie Duncan. This was recorded
at snail Rand Studios and the Hangarthe Emotions an