Calling All Creatures Presents Masked and Mischievious, Learning About the Raccoon

Attention all wildlife lovers, urban explorers, and curious minds! I'd like to invite you all to join me and my guest Sarah Holmes Bookbinder from the Charles N. Gordon Wildlife Rehabilitation Center, Inc. to uncover the secret lives of some clever, masked bandits called raccoons. We'll dive into the world of raccoons with Sarah and learn some amazing facts, bust some myths, and maybe get a few tips on how to coexist with them.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Good, you mean, everybody, and welcome to you. Call me
our creatures, and I am your host, Lorry. Most of
you probably know that by now if you've been listening
for like the last six years, but for those of
you that are little, I'm your host, Lorry, And tonight
we have a really good podcast. I name this one
Maston Mischievous. And if you can't guess what we're talking
about off of that, I don't know what to tell you.

(00:23):
So yes, we are talking about rad coons tonight because
I think they're really cool animals and yes they're cut
and their friend, but there's other things people need to
know about them, So we're gonna talk about them tonight
with Sarah Holmes, book founder. She is the executive director
of the Charles M. Golden Wildlife Rehabilitation Center. And that's

(00:46):
a mouthful, but that's awesome. I've read about why you
actually named it. But we'll talk about the the Summer
Home this a second. But uh, Sarah, thank you for
being on the show tonight. I appreciate it. Well, maybe
we can just started. Will you just tell me us
a little bit about yourself, about you, maybe about why
you like raccoons and what makes them kind of special

(01:10):
to you, and well, I mean, you're just kind of
getting to talking about sure, and thank you so much
for having me.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
It's been really exciting to have somebody interested in talking
about raccoons. My favorite thing to talk about, and they
are fabulous animals, so I'm grateful whenever.

Speaker 3 (01:27):
I get the chance to talk to people about them.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
So let's see a little bit about me. I was
growing up.

Speaker 3 (01:34):
Kind of a very introverted, shy child, as.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
I think many animal people are, and I was much
more comfortable around all the feral cats and the animals
in the neighborhood that I was around the people. And
I grew up in a suburb of Philadelphia, and really
one of the only wildlife species that I had exposure
to was raccoons, and they used to come and put
their little hands in my kittie pool and I would

(01:57):
see them out my window at night, and so I.

Speaker 3 (02:00):
Really was drawn to them from a young age.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
I recently found a piece of paper in my dad's
belongings that was part of the quote great American novel
that I wrote at age eight, and it was called
all Raccoons are Cute and very cute. Little drawing of reccoon,
So I think they've always been there in my world.
But when I decided that I wanted to become a

(02:27):
wildlife rehabilitator, I went to do a mentorship at another
facility that was sort of a generalist, and I love
all animals, and I was expecting to sort of become
a generalist as well. And I went and I worked
with my first raccoon, and I had this experience. It
was a little juvenile, and I went to feed it,

(02:48):
and it recognized that I wasn't the person that normally
sad it, and it turned and it turned its heads
and our eyes met, and I honestly felt like I
had been electrocuted, like I had never felt such intelligence
coming from an animal, and the way it was looking
at me, it was just one of the most magical
experiences I've ever had. It just took my breath away.

(03:10):
And I think between that and it reached out its
little hand, and between those two moments, it just basically
everything stopped. My whole my whole path to my future changed.

Speaker 3 (03:20):
My savings account rapidly diminished.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
Everything or eything went out of the window. And I said, okay, well,
I was doing all these things with my life and
now I'm just going to be working with raccoons and
doing everything I can to save them. So that's sort
of my introduction to raccoons.

Speaker 3 (03:37):
And fortunately I am married to a veterinarian.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
Who shares the love of the species that I do.
He also somehow we managed to find each other in
the Universe's he's crazy. We were married long before I
became a rehabber or we discovered raccoons, but we both
really fell in love with them as a species and
we have pretty much just devoted our whole world to

(04:02):
them at this point, you know.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
And that's really cool that you guys were able to
you know, meet and actually do that. And I was
reading about your husband and being the veterinarian so and
looks also great because he can, you know, work with
you and do what you both you know, love, So
that's really.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
Cool, absolutely, and it's it's also a part that makes
our center a little bit unique and that we do
have also that veterinary piece of the puzzle. So in
addition to the rehabilitation work, we're able to you know,
do a lot of the medical care that's needed.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
Right because it's hard for a lot of even regular dog, cat,
domestic animal rescues. It's hard for them sometimes to find
you know, that that's willing to work with them and
help them out with their animals and stuff like that.
And I know how hard it is with you guys.
As a wildlife we have ers, because you know, I've
had several on the should I had a lady who

(04:57):
doesn't a pounds, some rescue and you know some things.
She's got a really great vet you know that works
with her. So well, yeah, it's awesome that you guys
have that, you know, Oh.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
It really is. I mean so many people accuse me,
they're like, that was really smart to marry a vet,
Like yeah, like well, a marriage came first, the growth
came out. There's not some sort of strategic bond, but
it did. It did work out really well. And that
is something that rehabbers really do struggle with, you know,
finding a vet, you know, and they're all in short supply,

(05:31):
and then certain species, you know, I mean even the
Wildlife Hospital at Cornell University down here won't treat raccoons
or you know, things that are defined as rabies vectors.
So if you have a raccoon, anybody basically in New
York that you know, calls Cornell and says I have
an injured raccoon. They basically say, you know, bring it
to the bookbinders. So there's there are a very small

(05:51):
handful of veterinarians that are willing to help out their
rehabbers with these species around in this state anyway.

Speaker 3 (05:59):
And that's really too bad because they.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
You know, rehabbers are putting all their heart and soul
and money into this work, and you know, they really
need that medical support. So that's been one of our
things that we really try to do. I mean, we've
had people drive raccoons, you know, ten hours in a
day to bring them into us for help because they
can't get anybody else. So I'm we're really that's part
of the outreach that we're trying to get started here

(06:24):
is to try to encourage and inspire more of our
local veterinarians to start working with their rehabbers more.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
Right, Right, And since you touched on it, I mean
I was going to ask you about this anyway. Why
do you know why it is that there's so few
beads that I'll treat raccoons? Is it because the rabies vector?

Speaker 2 (06:43):
Is it?

Speaker 1 (06:43):
Something else? Is I mean, is it just what.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
I think, it's probably a combination of things. There was
a sort of a like I don't know if you
call an old wives tale or what you'd say, but
there was sort of some misinformation that went around.

Speaker 3 (06:57):
The state a while ago that put the idea in
everybody's head that.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
Veterinarians can't treat wildlife, that they need a special something
special on their license, widely populated. That was not accurate.
So we're trying to sort of dispel that myth that
you know, a veterinarian in New York State is able
to work on any animal, So that is part of it.

(07:24):
Is probably also that there is a shortage of veterinarians
in general in our regions, so they're already more than
overworked with their domestic animal load. And I also think,
you know, there's probably an intimidation factor. I mean, a
lot of veterinarians don't really you know, I haven't really

(07:45):
talked to a lot of their rehabbers, so they don't
realize that like the rehabilitator will help them, they will
restrain the animals so that they don't have to put
their technicians at risk. They will you know, share all
their knowledge and their resources and their textbooks, and you know,
rehabbers are really they need this help and they will
do anything that they can to make the veterinarian more comfortable.

(08:07):
I think there's also a there's a perfectionism and in
veterinarians of course, that they want to only do good
and never do any harm, and so they're afraid to
maybe work with the species that they don't understand that well,
so maybe they're a bit intimidated, and I think you know,
what they need to sort of start to understand is
that they're not going to get.

Speaker 3 (08:27):
That animal is not going to get any help if
they're not.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
Willing to try. So as a veterinarian, they are at
least better. You know, we're all creative, making a lot
of this up as we go and learning as we go,
so they're they're better poised than a non veterinarian to
at least sort of take a stab at what might
help a situation. And you know, rehabbers also often just
need you know, basic medications and help with you know,

(08:52):
antibiotics and payments and euthanasias and things like that.

Speaker 3 (08:56):
So there's a real need.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
Well yeah, and you know, I hate to say this.
But because I I'm sure there's when we say this
one hundred million times, because I did animal control for
the amount of time I did. You can get the
pre exposure baby shots too. Now is it fun to
get the human globe and one because it's got to
go around the area where you get bitten. Now it's

(09:20):
not fun. But again, you know, you can get at
least the first three shots ahead of time, and then
if you do happen to get bitten, then the systems
last two and you don't you know, And I.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
Would I would hope that most veterinarians and their staff
are vaccinated.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
And surprise that how many are not?

Speaker 2 (09:39):
You I don't know about the staff for New York
State raccoon rehabbers. It's required to have our vaccination series.
So in order to work with raccoons, we are required
to be vaccinating. So we have our shots. So, you know,
one of the things that I tell rehabbers if they're
going to be working with raccoons is I encourage them

(10:00):
to buy a squeeze cage so that you know, they
could actually say, you know, sometimes veterinarians, I think are
also worried about maybe bringing in wild animal diseases into
a domestic practice or something like that. They're putting their
clients animals at risk, things like that. So I have
actually encouraged I teach at the state conference every year,
and I have encouraged all the rehabbers who handle raccoons

(10:23):
to purchase a squeeze cage, which is basically just like
a like an animal trap or a cage, and you
put the animal goes in there, and then you can
actually push the side of the cage so that you
can administer a shot through the cage so no one
can get bitten, the animal can't get out. It's very safe.
And we actually once rehabbers have gotten those and they

(10:44):
can have these conversations with their veterinarians, they can say,
can you bring the sedative out to the parking lot.
I've got the animal in the trump my trunk of
my car in a squeeze gauge, you know, can you
sedate the animal and then bring it in for X
rays once it's you know, knocked out, things like that,
so that it eliminates at out of the risk and
the concerns. And I think if you can just I mean,
veterinarians are overworked. It's a terrible field right now. They're

(11:07):
as burnout as the rest of us in the field,
and they're overextended. But you know, if you can have
a very kind, diplomatic, open conversation with your vet and say,
I'm trying so hard to help these animals, you know,
is there any way you could help me at all?
You know, I'll pay for it or with you know,
however they want to work it out, but try to
figure out what that thing is that is causing their reservation.

(11:30):
If it's just that they don't want to handle it
or you know whatever, that's obviously they're up to their discretion.
But if it's something like they they're afraid of their
staff getting hurt, or you know, they're afraid of bringing
it into their clinic, you know, there are ways that
you can mitigate those situations.

Speaker 3 (11:46):
So we're really in some of those discussions.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
And the thing is is if you have a VET
that works with some of these can't rescues and even
larger shelters that do T and R. That's what they're
doing with the pharaohs. They're k getting them in a
squeech squeeze cage to bring them in to sedate them.
So they can uh you know, fix them and give

(12:10):
them way the revacinations and then put them back out
into their colonies. So you know that that's just so
they're already most a lot of them are already very
familiar with the squeeze squeeze that I can't even say
it squeeze page even and how it's you know, used
for those instances. So so yeah, and in your way,
I mean, I can understand the z emotic thing too.

(12:31):
But yeah, if you do have the animal in the
cage and another black touches the floor, and then after
you're done with the exam whatever happened, and you take
it back out and then they you know, bleach and
and disinfect that area, they should still be good. So absolutely, yeah,
So there there's not really Yeah, if you can have
good conversations with you and talk to them about doing that,

(12:54):
then that's awesome, because uh yeah, there shouldn't be too
many reasons. I don't look, I know you're in and
I'm in Arrizeta, and I don't know what exactly any
of the laws or requists or what a lot of
the vets here, I don't have very many of our
domestic vets where all live, actually work with any wild

(13:16):
animals or not. We do have a wildlife We have
Sudden though, but it's about an hour away from me.
So but yeah, if we get something these a lot
of times we can run.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
It up to them. That's great. Yeah, I mean I
know that the regulations, you know, vary dramatically from state
to state.

Speaker 3 (13:35):
I teach raccoon rehab.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
I've taught in Mississippi and Massachusetts and Connecticut and sort
of all sort of different areas, and it's so funny
because I'll go into some and I'll be like, Okay,
so what are your vaccination requirements, what are your paging requirements,
and what are you and some are like none and
some are just like, well, we got to do this,
this this. I'll send you the forty seven page booklet,
you know, so it's all you know.

Speaker 3 (13:58):
It really varies a lot from state to state too.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
Yep, exactly. So just st out there if you guys,
if anybody listening is thinking about being kind of a
wildlife rehaber, check with your state that you're in to
see what your local laws are or what ch what
your cre uh requiestites are to try to become a
wildlife rehaber. It's like I was when I mentioned depossum rescue.
She's in let's it's Tennessee. It's one of those states, Tennessee, Virginia, U.

(14:29):
One of those could even be Kentucky, but it's one
of those, you know, in that area, and it's really
hard to get the permit and stuff to reheld the
possums and yer, Yeah, I mean it it it she
she was talking about when they had her on the podcast.
It's really hard for for them too, and there's not

(14:49):
a lot of them in that around allowed to do that.
So so yeah, so definitely check with your state on
what you know. You need to know the laws, the
requisites and stuff like that and find out if you
can even do it. So that some states really do
prohibit that kind of stuff. So let's go them talk
a little bit more about the turtles and Golden Wildlife

(15:11):
rehabil Rehabilitation Center. So what is it that you guys
do at the center and how did you get started?
Did you get wrong?

Speaker 3 (15:23):
Well, you can shorten it just to Gordon Wildlife.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
So this is wildlife less of slightly less of a
mouthful for you there. But so we are a sort
of a microcenter based in central New York, and we
are focused. We specialize in raccoons, so we the main
sort of nuts and bolts of what we're doing here
is we are rehabilitating orphaned or injured raccoons that come

(15:48):
into care. But as a sort of outbranching of that,
what that's what started as our mission is we came
to realize that there was a trimen this need for
not just the veterinary piece, but also just like a
central sort of networking and sort of morale boosting presence

(16:10):
in the state because rehabbers are kind of working in
these isolated little pockets and everybody was sort of reinventing
the wheel and having to learn a lot of things
the hard way on their own. And you know, rehab
is really amazing difficult heart work. You know, you're really
it's gut.

Speaker 3 (16:29):
Wrenching at times.

Speaker 2 (16:30):
It's incredibly euphoric when it's successful, but you see a
lot of really difficult things, and you know, the people
who are going into this we're not allowed to charge
for what we do, so you know, they're all people
who are doing it on a volunteer level.

Speaker 3 (16:42):
They're doing it out of the goodness of their hearts
to be there.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
For these animals, and it's just devastating when you are
doing it sort of alone and you hit some of
those really bad points, you know, and some of the
really hard stuff. You see a lot of animals that
are in bad situations largely because of people, you know.
And so animals come into rehab and then you try
your hardest and often you know, it doesn't work and

(17:08):
you're not able to save the animal or something goes wrong,
and it can be really heartbreaking. So for all those
triumphs and victories and amazing moments where you save something,
you know, you're often really.

Speaker 3 (17:19):
Devastated by the bad cases.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
So we're trying to also be sort of a mentorship
and a networking you know, a sort of a haven
for the different rehabers to come together and you know,
drink heavily and I'm just kidding, but you know, if.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
You sort of be there for.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
The days, yeah, you know, So we try to just
sort of be there. You know. Paul is there to
able to give the sort of veterinary backup if people
can send us something in like a text or a
video and say, you know, what is this? Have you
seen this before? What are you worried about. You know,
rehab is a really fascinating field because it it attracts
people from all walks of life at all ages, Like

(18:03):
it's a great sort of undertaking for someone who's just
retired because you know, they have maybe a little bit
of extendable income, a little bit of time on their hands,
they've been animal people. They love it. So people come
at it from all different places in the world, so
not everybody has a veterinary medical background or you know,
in New York State you only have to really sort

(18:24):
of take a test and get for raccoons, you know,
get your caging inspected and a few things like that.
But there's a sort of a need for some basic
sharing of experiences and ideas so that we don't all
have to keep learning things the hard way. So we
really try to do that mentorship for others around the state.

(18:46):
And last year we launched our Baby boot Camp program,
which is a hands on raccoon rehab training program, which
we weren't.

Speaker 3 (18:56):
Really expecting to take the way that it.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
Did, and we've had people from all over the country apply,
and it's really unusual.

Speaker 3 (19:05):
Apparently it's more pioneering.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
Than I saw it because we got we suddenly have
a lot lot of applicants, but it's something that really
you know, trains people with the.

Speaker 3 (19:16):
Hands on handling and protocols of.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
How to really work with these animals, and it very
much it gives you sort of a backup so that
you're not suddenly licensed and then animals are brought to
you and their lives are in their hands and you
don't know what to do in your it's all the
pressure's kind of on you. So gives them sort of
a little backup to get their feet wet. And so
that's a large part of what we're doing here is

(19:42):
this sort of education training outreach. We're trying to help
other people navigate the licensing process in our state. And
we ended up actually writing our protocols manual, which has
sort of somehow become the raccoon Bible around the country.
It's now been downloaded I think in something like forty

(20:02):
four states in thirteen countries, I think. So we end
up we ended up kind of inadvertently writing the book
on on raccoon rehab, at least the starter version. So
we're really just trying to.

Speaker 3 (20:16):
We're trying to get raccoons sort of.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
Seen in another light. I mean, they get vilified a lot,
and we really just find them to be such magical,
worthwhile animals that we really want to sort of be
a you know, forced for good to make it better
to be a raccoon in New York State. That's what
I say. I'm gonna want to that's my bucket list,

(20:39):
you know, before I die, I want to have made
it better to be a record in New York State.
So so sort of everything that comes out of that,
the training and the outreach and the rehab itself and
putting out some more positive messages about them and things
like that, well.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
It sounds like you're actually being a positive influence and
helping out raccoons and a lot more than just your
state and countries.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
Yeah, I hope. So, I hope. So they all deserve it.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
Yeah, no kidding, that's cool. That's amazing though that has
been shared out and around, you know, to that many
different places. That's pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (21:15):
Yeah. It was a complete shocker. I mean I had
no idea. I mean I thought maybe, you know, we
did it as a download at first, and I thought, oh, maybe.

Speaker 3 (21:23):
Twenty people will want it, you know, And I.

Speaker 2 (21:25):
Was basically making it for like our students as like
a guide so they could learn. And then all of
a sudden, like people started and then people are like,
where's the printed version? You know? So this year we
made it into a printed book and now we've sold
several hundred copies of that, and it was just like,
it's it's just crazy. We just weren't. I mean, raccoons
do that.

Speaker 3 (21:43):
To you, like once one looks in your eyes and reaches.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
Out with this little hand, like you're kind of sunk forever.
So like once you know, you meet these reccoon people
out there and they're like, okay, we're our own little
drive and like you once a reccoon person here, that's
kind of it. So I get it, but I just
kind of didn't quite know how many of them they
were out there.

Speaker 1 (22:02):
That's funny, but that's awesome. I'd be that's funny, but
it's awesome. So so well, want to go ahead.

Speaker 3 (22:13):
No, I'm just waiting for them to take over the world.

Speaker 1 (22:16):
It's kind of they're pinking the brain. Yeah, if you
don't mind, why don't you give us some more basic
information about raccoons, like their diet habitats. You know, how
long do they live usually how many you know, how
many offspring do they have? You know, those kinds of
basic things that people may or me.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
Right though, Sure, So raccoons are people always say that
they're nocturnal. They're actually crepuscular. So they're most active really
at dawn and dusk. They they are also active at night,
but they really mostly go out at that dawn in

(22:54):
dusk time. And I do want to clear up the
misconception that if you see a raccoon now the daytime,
that it's usually rabid.

Speaker 3 (23:01):
That is not true.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
If you see a normal acting and normal looking raccoon
out in the daytime, particularly in the springtime, that is
usually a mom who's out and who's hungry, and who
is I can tell you since I bottle feed a
heck of a lot of raccoon babies in.

Speaker 3 (23:19):
The spring that they eat a lot, and they eat
all the time. So she is, you know, leaving the
kids in the den at night.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
She wants to be in there with them when everything
else is out that she would see as a threat,
So she goes out during the day to feed herself.
So if you see, you know, if you see a
raccoon that's staggering or walking in circles or doing something
really you know that looks off. That's a different story.
That's maybe a concern about a disease process. But if
you just see a normal looking raccoon walking around during

(23:49):
the daytime, particularly in the spring, that's chances are that's
just a mom looking for some food. And speaking of
their food, you did ask about their diet. So they're omnivores.
They can eat pretty much anything.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
You know.

Speaker 2 (24:04):
One of the things I really love about raccoons is
probably a lot of the things that they get.

Speaker 3 (24:11):
Vilified for, but they are incredibly adaptable.

Speaker 2 (24:15):
So they've they've learned. You look at them and they're
this kind of fat, wodily incredibly unlikely animal to be
as close to the top of the sort of you know,
food chain as they are, and they've just become so
brilliantly adapted because of really their intelligence. And you know,
they can eat anything. If we have a hard winter here,

(24:37):
they could eat tree bark if they had to, you know,
so they can you know, survive. They'll eat meat, they'll
eat they'll eat anything, and they'll get they'll get through.
They you know, have adapted to you know, eat garbage
if they have to, which is not what they want
to do. But one of the reasons that people get
frustrated with them. But again, you know, these are things
that I think at sally make them more amazing is

(25:03):
that they have adapted.

Speaker 3 (25:04):
You know, we're taking away their habitat, we're.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
Destroying where they live and the nature, and instead of
going extinct, they're just learning to adapt and to live
closer in proximity. And you know that's something that's may
be problematic to people, but it's really something to be
admired about the species. Yeah, go ahead, Well.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
I was just I was just agreeing. Yeah, I was
just gonna say, it's kind of the same thing with coyotes.
You know, sure, you know, same thing. If they're they
can be out during the day. It doesn't mean that
they have this temporary ladies. I mean, if you see
something wrong, whether they look really sickly or something, then yeah,
and that's being Yeah, that's different. But they can be
out in the daytime as well, and the same thing

(25:45):
I mean leaving croached into their territory as well, and
they have adapted. I mean, people who can now believe
that we have coyotes that come into I mean you
know tucsons is.

Speaker 4 (25:56):
I don't know if they come into Phoenie, well maybe
suburbs of Phoenix, but they come right into the two,
into the city, into the streets and stuff.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
Maybe not right downtown, but you know, all around out
there in the outskirts, you'll see them and stuff because
they're adapting. They have to and they actual.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
Yeah, they can't live in wild because there is no
wild left. So they've got to either you know, die
off or learn to live with us and go ahead.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
And so the way to that. And that's funny because
you were talking about the garbage and and so that
that would make me, know too, from people's trash pandace nice.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
You know for that.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
I have heard many people calling trash pandas.

Speaker 2 (26:33):
Yeah, I won't I won't use that here because I
have had so many people, you know, I've had so
many kids orphaned because people shoot the moms and then
they bring you the babies because they can't bear to
shoot babies. But you know, and I say, well, what happened, Oh,
she's getting into my trash, and it's like, well that's
not really fair, you know, se carry your trash. You're
putting out a buffet you know, so I try not

(26:57):
to associate them too much with garbage, but they do.
They are you know, it's a meal, they're gonna hit
it and they're hungry, and you sort of can't blame
them for trying to survive.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
And I mean they don't. I mean, how many people
feed the wildlife and then they entice them in and
then they quit feeding them.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
Right too, So they get angry that that they're coming
too close.

Speaker 3 (27:19):
You know, it's like, well, you gave them a warm
spot and you feed them, so.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
Right, Well, no trying just say well, what do you think?

Speaker 2 (27:25):
You know, you're right, yeah, I know it happens.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
I think are gaming fish. I think they can come
after you if they catch you feeding the wildlife here
in Arizona, because I mean.

Speaker 4 (27:37):
Literally you'll be if you know, you gotta stop and
think when you're feeding some of the schools and like
raccoons and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (27:44):
Now you're pulling in and you know, have a lena
and cougars and sure you know it's not a really
good thing. But uh, anyway, and they ahead and what
is their like habitats? I mean obviously we know roly quaching,
but what would their regular habitats be va like and
you know, how long do they live in? How many?

(28:04):
And they're all spring is called kits, correct, kits are cubs.

Speaker 3 (28:09):
You can you can use either or both.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
I I tend to use kits that some some use cubs,
but they're both acceptable. So let's see. They they the
one thing that they need to be near is a
water source, so they always stay near a stream or
you know, some source of water. But they're again, you know,
pretty I think there are throughout the you know, all

(28:34):
North America as far as I know, so they they
have a sort of a diverse habitat. They tend to
dend in trees ours up here, you know where we've
got very snowy habitat. But they can they can pretty
much adapt to wherever they wherever they are. The lifespan again,

(28:55):
I don't really know. It's it's really varied if you
look it up. I mean people say sort of one
to three years in the wild, which seems crazy to me,
but then you're mostly looking at you know, getting hit
by cars or you know, diseases blow through. They certainly
live you know, eight ten, twelve in captivity, but I

(29:18):
don't know about the you know if you if you
remove the human factor, probably the lifespan would be a
lot longer.

Speaker 3 (29:27):
But they seem to say sort of, you know, one
to three years.

Speaker 2 (29:31):
In the wild, they do have litters, usually sort of
two to six cubs or kits. One year, I got a.

Speaker 3 (29:43):
Litter of ten that had.

Speaker 2 (29:44):
Been orphaned, but that's a very unusually large litter. I
think when they're younger, new moms tend to have smaller
litter sizes than the more you know, moms who have
had repeated litters.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
Okay, so let's talk a little bit. Their paws in
their hands will go so unique.

Speaker 2 (30:10):
They're amazing. Their hands are like it's yeah, they are.
There's just something about them, like when they it's just incredible.
But they're really quite amazing. Raccoons rely tremendously on their
sense of touch, and they have I think it's four
to five times more the coana receptor cells than most

(30:33):
mammals in their hands. So that's basically you know, the sensory,
the tactile ability to feel things and send information to
the brain, so they identify things a lot by touching them.

Speaker 3 (30:45):
I think only primates.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
And humans have up to that same level, as as
a raccoon does. So that's why you'll see as soon
as they are curious about something, they'll grab it and
they'll dunk it in water and.

Speaker 3 (30:58):
Then they'll start feeding it, feeling it.

Speaker 2 (31:00):
And they often sort of are looking upwards and not
looking at their hands because they don't rely as much
on their vision, but they're just looking off the distance
and they're rapidly touching something and they wet their paws.
They used to think, you know, people used to say, oh,
they're washing their food or whatever, and they're not washing it.
They're they're softening the pads of their hands because they

(31:20):
are callous enough that they can climb trees and do
all these sort of things with them, but they soften
them and that enhances that tactile ability to sort of
you know, feel and send all that information to their brain.
So that's why they're so touchy.

Speaker 1 (31:36):
They anything, they disgrab it, and.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
They're rolling things around and always but they always are
just like you know, this rapid like touch, touch, what
is it? What is it? They turn it over and
you know, they have tremendous problem solving abilities, and their
intelligence is just incredible, and it's also really fed by
that information that they're getting from their hands and how
things work. They roll things around.

Speaker 3 (31:56):
They you know, so their hands are really.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
They rely just as much, I think on that sense
as any of their other ones for information gathering.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
Well, and they have like the little things like humans
and stuff too, so they can hurt things easier, right
they can.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
They can, Well they don't have an opposable thumb, but
they can. They can, certainly they can, as they have
possible thumbs. They truly would have taken over the world.
They but yeah, I mean it's incredible, like if you
we will. When we have our kits and we're raising
them for release, we're trying to give them. You know,
they would spend their first year normally with their mother

(32:35):
and she would be taking them out and teaching them things.
And so they're at a disadvantage when they come up
and rehab because they don't have their mother out there
showing them things in the world.

Speaker 3 (32:44):
But we try to give them as much enrichment and.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
As much sort of skills, you know, foraging things like
that that they would need as skills when they go
out into the wild. And we'll bring them like a.

Speaker 3 (32:56):
Kiddie pool full of.

Speaker 2 (32:57):
Crayfish or minnows or something, and it's amazing because they
ten stick their hands and little babies, they'll stick their
hands in and in one flash they pulled the fish
up and it's it's immedia. It's the first thing. And
they can grab it just with one hand, he said,
they'll they'll go. They can. They're just incredibly.

Speaker 3 (33:13):
Fast with that, with that grab and reach.

Speaker 2 (33:16):
It's amazing. It's amazing to see.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
But that'd be awesome. Yeah, do you have any videos
of that on your website at all?

Speaker 2 (33:24):
Probably on the Facebook page, probably there. There usually are
some me at our Spring and summer are our big
busy time, so we'll we're hoping this year to get
a student intern who might want to take some social
media for you know, a video for us, so that
we can start getting some of this stuff out there
because we're you know, we're all volunteer and it's just

(33:45):
a full time job. To when we were very much
just starting out, it was just me doing all the
bottle feeding. So I remember at one point I was
feeding something like two hundred and forty seven bottles a
day and it was just like an endless, like round
the clock, you know, procession of bottles. So now that
we have the interns and we've sort of expanded and

(34:06):
we've gotten the programs up and running. You know, now
we have enough hands on deck that hopefully we'll be
able to start getting a lot more recordings done and
things that can really be used to educate people about
these animals.

Speaker 3 (34:18):
And it's just so much fun to watch.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
I mean, they're incredible.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
Oh yeah, they're kind of cool. I'm going to talk
about some more of your education training stuff here in
just a minute too. So masks, why are their masks
more than actual just markings. I actually read on that.
I was kind of surprised it's more than just a marking.
So what are the masks for.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
Well, there's a camouflage element certainly, and I think that
one of the theories about them, of course, is that
they're absorbing the light the way that you know, football
players put that black under their eyes can help reduce
glare and things to sort of help with the night vision.
And every mask is unique, so there are also theories

(35:05):
out there that they're using them to differentially differentiate each
other from sort of a distance, so that they kind
of know each other. What did you find that you
were interested?

Speaker 1 (35:15):
It was about the absorbing the light saw. I never
thought about that.

Speaker 2 (35:21):
Yeah, and I still can't figure out the striped tail.
I mean everybody everybody says, oh, it's just like a
I guess so that you're you know, I guess, I
guess it's a camouflage.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
Some camouflage thing. I mean, yeah, I mean if you
see them in the wild and you look in if
there really their tail does kind of mix in if
they're just sitting, you know, on a bunch of brush
or some stuff.

Speaker 2 (35:46):
Yeah, they're like the wooded habitats, and they have a
they have a very beautiful silver tip to the top
of their ears, and it's very distinctive. And when they are,
you know, either getting to offensive or.

Speaker 3 (36:00):
Aggressive, that ears fold back.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
And so I think that I read somewhere that they
are using that also sort of as you know, signalman
to the other animals that are out there, so you
can sort of tell there's like no mistaking the mood
they're in they want you to approach or not. You know,
you can watch those ears and using that silver, that
silver kind of flashes, but then they can hide it.

(36:24):
If they're trying to you know, creep away, the ears
go down and back and the silver goes away. So
that's kind of interesting.

Speaker 1 (36:31):
Well, maybe the wings is when you're in the trees
and kind of mixing. Maybe it mixes in with the
birth of the trees a little bit more.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
I think it must be because I think, like the ringtail,
lemur is the only other thing I can think of
that as that ringed tail, and it would be tree
tree dwelling, right.

Speaker 1 (36:48):
Yeah, and we have maybe have yeah, the you call
them ringtailed cats on Monday.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
Yeah, yeah, tabbycats. I guess I'm looking at looking at
a tabbycat right now on her tail.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
Yeah, yeahbiads do happens on their tail? I mean I
can think about it, but I mean, no, it's permanent.
I don't think as the raccoons. But no, well, that
terrible was something that was a prized possession of the tailpers,
that's for sure.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:18):
Yeah, we already talked about. I mean one of the
traits that kind of gets raccoons into trouble. Are they
any other ones out there that kind of tend to
get them into more trouble than usual?

Speaker 2 (37:34):
Well, you know, they're really really smart, So I think
that that it's kind of a double edged sword. For them.
It makes them really amazing, but I think it also
makes them sort of threatening to some people. I don't know,
it's interesting. My best friend was.

Speaker 3 (37:48):
Like horrified when I said when she.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
When she found out at first that I was going
to be working with raccoons, because she was like, oh
my god, I'm terrified of them. And I was like, really,
like why they're so amazing whatever? She and she had
this story when she was young that she had gone
on and she was she had a like a compost
heap or something, and there were a bunch of apples
that were in the compost team and she went out

(38:11):
one night to put some stuff in the compost and
there was all these there were all these raccoons there
and all of the app and they wanted the apples.
And so instead of having this big, crazy like free
for all where they were all like running for the
apples and fighting and wasting all their energy and everything,

(38:31):
they were in the line and the first one would
take an apple and then go to the back of
the line and eat it, and the next one would
go up from the line and take their apple and
go to the back end. And they like through, They'll work through,
and so everybody got their apple and nobody had to fight,
and they all and mean and it was like shocking,
but like that level of thought actually like scared her.

(38:52):
She was like, oh my gosh, so like they were
really like organizing, you know. So I don't know. So apparently,
you know, being just my can get in trouble, but
it also, like you know, makes them very busy, so
they get into things. They're very curious and so they
want to see sort of you know, how things work
and figure out their environment. So I think that that

(39:13):
means that you know, and they're just they're just adaptable
and opportunistics. So you know, if they have a chance
to get into your attic where it's nice and warm
and they don't have to worry about things, and you know,
I feel like you can tell the really intelligent animals
by if they sense a threat, they pause for a
minute and they they evaluate what's going on.

Speaker 3 (39:38):
And you know, I think maybe lesser intelligent animals.

Speaker 2 (39:42):
Maybe just sort of have a flash reaction or something.
And so I think that they will choose you know,
den sites and closer proximity to humans than some other
species that would prey on their young. Are willing to go,
So they kind of push the envelope a little bit
because they're making a calculated meant that they can get
away from the human if they need to, and that

(40:03):
it's worth it to keep, say they're young away from
a great horned owl or something, and the owl isn't
going to go as closed or something like that. So
I think, you know, they're they're using their intelligence to
size up the fact that they feel that this is
a relatively safe space and they're willing to come sort
of a little closer. So then of course you get
the destruction of property or you get you know, them

(40:25):
into the garbage or things like that that people aren't
a fan.

Speaker 1 (40:28):
Of, right, And I think, I don't know if it
was off your side or just when I was looking
at racoons, I know I read that you wanted to
try to do some i don't know, not bad bad
experiments on them, but like teaching them to do things.
But they kept opening up the cageus into the house.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
Yeah, it was like in the sixties or seventies they
had figured out like how intelligent they were, and they
wanted to measure them, and they wanted to measure the intelligence,
and then they kept all the people in the lab
kept getting really frustrated because they go in every morning
and the records that look like can have the cage
really because they're just so you know, I'm like, well,

(41:04):
that should make you want to study them more, not
you know, not less. But they're like, oh, I give up.
You know.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
Oh it was so funny when they load that. I
that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (41:15):
Yeah. I mean my contractors are like, you know, boy,
if anybody ever needs quality control for like any object
on earth, just like give it to a raccoon. Because
we we we have this joke all the time. There'll
be literally six of us standing around trying to figure
out how to engineer something that the raccoon won't be
able to figure out. And we'll spend weeks like problem solving.

(41:35):
Like I wanted to do a self like a feeder
that somebody could feed from the outside so that if
I had to not be there, you know, but it
would be a drawer, and it would be this and that,
and I mean it's like we have yet to come
up with a really good design that's that's effective. Because
every time we'll spend all this time and money and
affort engineering something and then they're like, yeah, no, and
they they're like oh cool, and they pull you know,

(41:57):
pull it out and then it's broken. So you know,
we just they're very, very very smart and persistent and
they're just problem solvers. They love a good puzzle. So,
I mean, that's another thing that's so fascinating is that
they've done all those studies where you know, the raccoons
can replicate you know, if they if they solve something,

(42:18):
they can replicate it for you know, years and years later,
and they can you know, you can turn it upside
down and they still.

Speaker 3 (42:23):
Recognize it and they still can solve it.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
And so when they do the sort of tests on them,
they have amazing results, which is great.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
Yeah. Yeah, that story, I thought that was just great.
I was like, wow, that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:37):
So yeah, I guess the raccoon taught the research or something.
That's for sure. If you can't cage us buddy, nope, no.

Speaker 2 (42:47):
I mean in New York State, you know, we often
complain about a lot of the regulations that they have
around caging for raccoons because they you know, they've made
it very difficult to get your license to deal with them.
But one of the requirements is a double door system,
and that one I totally support them. That one makes
a lot of sense.

Speaker 1 (43:08):
Yeah, yeah, that's great. So you guys, you know, and
you guys rehabilitate the orphaned and injured raccoons. But say
what if you have an a raccoon that's injured to
the point, I mean, you can save its life, but
it's not going to be able to go back out
into the wild. Do you guys end up letting it

(43:31):
revolve its life there at the center or what happens then?

Speaker 2 (43:36):
I do we have one of very few, possibly the only,
I'm not sure, but I think permits in the state
right now for medically non releasable raccoons and they are
used for educational purposes as ambassador animals for our rehab
training program. So I'm trying to work with the states

(43:59):
similar to get some broader sanctuary status. I work a
lot on the I'm on the task force to try
to revise the regulations in the state and get them
a little bit more raccoon friendly, because we have a
tremendous problem here with you know, there's more animals than
there are rehabbers, and so they get into trouble and

(44:19):
all the rehabbers are full, and you know, members of
the public end up taking them in and trying to
raise them, and that's not good for the public or
the animal. So we're really trying to work on more solutions.
So I've been working with the DC and Fishing Wildlife
on trying to revise the regulations to allow some more

(44:41):
of these you know people to get rehab licenses and
to revise some of the regulations. So hopefully a sanctuary
status will be on the horizon. But right now, yes,
we do have a permit for the medical non releasables.
So we have a number of you know, amputees or
you know, we had one that was born with a

(45:01):
vestibular condition. He can climb upwards, but he can't climb downwards.
So if we had released him, you know, he would
have just gone down to the Wits climb tree and
starve together.

Speaker 3 (45:10):
So he is now incredibly spoiled and living at his
days here.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
And so we do have a permit for those animals
and we do keep them here. Yep. Good.

Speaker 1 (45:24):
And a little bit ago, we did touch on you know,
the rabies, pre raby shots and stuff like that, and
you said that you guys it's requirement that uh, you
guys have to have the pre shots as well. Yeah,
you work with them. So, uh, maybe you can explain
a little bit more about what a rabies vector type

(45:47):
of species is and it's not. I mean, there's there's
several different vector species and the only reason they I
think call them the vector species is because they I
think are prone to get infective with brabies, maybe more
than other species for whatever reason.

Speaker 2 (46:03):
But yeah, and I think that's something that is defined
differently again state to state.

Speaker 3 (46:11):
So in New York State, they like some states, don't.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
Make the classification of a rabies vector because it's it's
a little misleading because basically any mammal can get rabies.
So you know, I think in New York State they
based the definition on animals for whom a specific strain
of the virus has developed for them to be the

(46:37):
sort of post species or or something in also sort
of the number of you know, the higher prevalence of
incidents in that species than in others. So right now,
for example, in New York State, raccoons, skunks, and bats
are the three what the state is defining as a
rabies vector species. Yea to you, Yeah, Fox used to

(47:02):
be on our list and isn't at the moment, but
you know, it's always kind of one of the things
we're flirting with coming back on because it does you know,
we do see it a lot in foxes, but it's
really just sort of species that have I guess a
somewhat higher incidence relatives for the rest of the mantle population.
Raccoons in particular can incubate the disease for a long time,

(47:27):
and so again that's one of those things that they've
adapted well and it's actually something that works out well
for them, but it becomes a problem to you know,
the rest of the population.

Speaker 1 (47:37):
But yeah, yeah, for us here we have I think
we see rabies more so in spinks and especially bats
because you know, we have the caverns and stuff here
with a lot of the bats roosts, so we tend
to see more so would the rabies. I mean, we'll
have a raccoon or a fox here and there, but
you don't hear about those as much as we do

(47:58):
the skunks and the bats here in Arizona, haven't it.
Raby's So yeah, yeh, I would I.

Speaker 3 (48:06):
Would like to see more of the baiting programs you.

Speaker 2 (48:09):
Know around I'm I'm they're they're very successful with the
baiting programs, and it would be very nice to be
able to eradicate that disease.

Speaker 1 (48:16):
Yeah, we're doing here for the skunks and stuff. I'm
not sure if they put 'em up for the raccoons
and factor now, but I know we do it for
the skunks at certain areas around in Arizona.

Speaker 2 (48:25):
So yeah, I mean they've baited you know, Massachusetts and
the Canadian border and it's been very successful. So I
would love to see the money put into just getting
rid of that disease altogether.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, babe. I know I've did animal control.
I know what that the ah.

Speaker 2 (48:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, have you seen it?

Speaker 1 (48:45):
Yeah, I had a rabies epidemic in the area I
worked for about a year. So boy, yeah it was
it was crazy. I'd got to know the te lab
in Phoenix very very well.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
Oh geeze h. Yeah, it's a terrible disease.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
And I was reading in to say too, but have
you told listeners where in the cropsy is important if
an animal dies? Why would that be so important when
it comes to.

Speaker 2 (49:13):
So that's something that is kind of a personal passion
of mine is trying to help rehabbers to have the
ability to get an animal sent in for a new
cropsy if if it dies in their care, And there's
a lot of reasons why you would want to do that.

(49:33):
It's something that historically rehabbers haven't had access to in
New York State. You know, you have to have a
veterinarian submit it. So we worked really.

Speaker 3 (49:41):
Hard with them at Cornell and they developed.

Speaker 2 (49:43):
A program with us where we're now allowed to submit
on behalf of other rehabbers around the state. So that
was a really great thing for them to do, and
that's something we're very proud that we're offering. So there's
a lot of reasons why a rehabber would want to
know what happened to the animals, like if you have
just you just something dies and you don't understand it.

(50:04):
One of them, of course, is for you know, quarantine
and to understand what disease process has been in your facility,
because there are a tremendous variation in ways to clean
up after different pathogens. So if you're you know, cleaning
up as certain things can live in the environment for
years and you know bleach won't touch them, then you know,
you need a blowtorch to get rid of them, and

(50:26):
certain things are really fragile, like rabies, you know, is
a very fragile virus, so you know, soap and water
will basically take care of that. And being in the
air for a couple of days, so you know, not
knowing what you have, you could be you know, you
need to make sure that you can clean up properly
so that next year, you know, you're not putting babies
back into situations that you think you've bleached them, but
turns out that wasn't enough to kill whatever that pathogen was,

(50:47):
and then you're just going to be reinfecting animals. It also,
you know, often an animal will die and there will
be others left in care, and sometimes you can treat
those animals and there's a solution, and you know, if
you if you know what disease you're dealing with, sometimes
you know there's a treatment and you can save the
rest of them. It's also helpful you know a lot

(51:10):
of these viruses out there in the world mutate, and
you know they can present differently. So if you see
an animal you know comes in it's exhibiting certain symptoms
and then it dies, you'll want to know in the future,
you know, gee, I've seen that before, you know, or
you see it again, and you want to know kind
of what you're looking at. So you can't really you know,

(51:31):
if you don't have a diagnosis other than say, oh,
this isn't good. But you know, it would be nice
to know sort of what you're dealing with then. And also,
you know, rehabbers play a really important role in disease
surveillance because we do see you know, a lot of
things that come in before even some of the vision wildlife,
you know, before things get on their radar. So it
just helps build a really good general base of knowledge,

(51:54):
you know, for sort of what's out there in our environment.

Speaker 1 (51:58):
Right right, Well, I thought it as a interesting you know,
I was reading about that. I figured there was probably
some pretty good reasons why you guys want to know,
and you know, cleaning up and stuff like that makes
a lot of sense because you just don't know, yeah,
and we have it.

Speaker 2 (52:11):
You know.

Speaker 3 (52:11):
It's it's very similar to a shelter environment.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
You know, you've got you know, you're doing high volume
of animals in a small space and you really just
sort of need to be as careful as you cannot
to be, you know, bringing diseases around to other litters
and you know, working on your your medical protocols.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
So right right exactly, never can be too careful. And
you know we in the in the you know, domestic
shelter environment, it's the same thing because you have dogs
come in, they have in the vaccinated. They can be sick,
they can have powerful they can have gerlordia, you know, distemper.
You're just never know, and they can be shutting that
virus and infecting the whole thing. You know, same thing.
You've got to know what you have to clean with

(52:52):
absolutely and for us, for the most part, a lot
of times bleach will take care of it. But uh,
you know we do have any you got to leave
it on.

Speaker 2 (52:59):
There for twenty minut and it's if it's parvo, you know,
so you know, do you got it? You don't know?
And like for example, you know, parvo is a great
example of that. Like we're seeing a lot of parvo
right now in in rappoons and it's not coming in
presenting as the.

Speaker 3 (53:11):
Traditional GI issue.

Speaker 2 (53:14):
It's it's presenting with much less dramatic symptoms that's got
a longer incubation period and then you know, but we're
able to bring them through with treatment. So if we
lose one and we.

Speaker 3 (53:25):
Send an in for at nee cruptcy and they say
it's parvo, then we can treat everybody else.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
We save them. They are they're all fine, they're releasable.
But we also think, hey, wait, this is parbo. We
don't want them to go out and shed it into
the environment. So we will actually overwinter them until they're
completely finished with the shedding period, and then we can
send them out and know that they're not going to
be putting it out, you know, into the into the wild.

(53:50):
So that's, you know, another reason why it's really good
to understand the actual processes that are going through your facility.

Speaker 1 (53:59):
Right right exactly. Dogs I think said it for like
three or four, three to five days before they really
show signs of it and stuff. I didn't even know
Raccoons got powerful. That's interesting.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
Yeah, yeah, Unfortunately, you know, raccoons are susceptible to both
feline and canine diseases. So when we vaccinate here, we
were giving you know, canine and feline vaccines and of
course rabies, so we're we're vaccinating with the whole host
of stuff we got to be you know, can't be
too careful, but you know, we do put them out

(54:30):
there fully vaccinated.

Speaker 1 (54:31):
So awesome, that's cool. Yeah, I learned something new all
the time there.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
You go.

Speaker 3 (54:37):
I had a pretty fun line of work that you're
in here, I imagine.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
Yeah, well, you know, this is more of a hobby.
But I really enjoy it.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
I really enjoy it though, because I do. I learn
a lot of stuff all the time about different things.
So it's really cool. I love being nonal doing it
so well. And so I was going to ask you
to you what types of education training you know, do
you have there at the center. You've already mentioned a
couple of things like the maybe at boot camp, and
we'll do internships and stuff. So it's that kind of

(55:05):
energy offer other training, educational opportunities beyond those.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
So we're kind of expanding that part of our program here.
So we do do the internships. Now we're doing we're
trying to expand some of those through different We're doing
some prevet track and some you know, ve tech and
sort of other animal fields that come in in the
baby boot camp. And we're also just sort of helping

(55:35):
a lot of people navigate the licensing process and charting
to sort of you know, work with just some general
education outreach there. I mean, I certainly give tours to
people if they want to come over and and you
know stop, buy and and talk about things. And we're
working on getting some you know, recorded educational content out there.
So it's that's that side of things is really growing.

(55:58):
We really are sort of star starting to become recognized
as one of the sort of key raccoon places in
the country, and you know, there's sort of a handful
of doing sort of large scale, more visible work, and
we're also trying to build a database of medical knowledge

(56:19):
about them, so we do pay for some viral sequencing.
We're trying to work with them at all the Wildlife
Health Department at Cornell trying to sort of figure out
some of the.

Speaker 3 (56:33):
Diseases and issues facing these.

Speaker 2 (56:35):
Animals and how we can sort of better help them.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
Awesome.

Speaker 3 (56:41):
Yeah, So.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
You've mentioned you know, volunteers and stuff like that, so
I'm assuming you take volunteers and probably donations that a
lot of other places do. Can you give the information
for like your website, Facebook pages and stuff where people
can you know, find out more information about the center
or donate or if they live near view about volunteering

(57:06):
and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (57:08):
Absolutely, So our website is www dot Gordon Wildlife dot
org and most of the information is listed there. Yeah,
I mean rehabbers really, you know, they aren't allowed to
charge for their work and they.

Speaker 3 (57:24):
We all kind of rely on donations.

Speaker 2 (57:28):
It's a kind of a weird, little niche area. So
you know, we are a five oh one C three.
We can apply for grants, but you know, again with
that kind of funding, you sort of there's a small
portion of grants that are designated for animal work and
the majority of those are for domestic animals, and so
the small portion of that that's for wild animals is

(57:49):
mostly for endangered species. So you kind of take this
animal that you know, many people consider a nuisance or
that's not endangered, and you know, there's not a lot
of funding opportunities out there, and you know, when you're
working with wildlife, there's no adoption fee, there's no you know,
there's no way to recoup any of the expenses of

(58:11):
all the money that you're putting in feeding and vaccinating
and tending these so you know, rehabers have a tough
time making a go of it. So a lot of
most centers are, including ours, are you know, supported and
operating on on donations and on a lot of volunteerism
and our own you know, I'm not paid, Paul is

(58:32):
not paid. We're not paid for the work that we
do here.

Speaker 3 (58:35):
And I tell you I work longer days at this
that I ever.

Speaker 2 (58:37):
Did at any job I ever held anywhere else. But
you know, we do it out of love and and
and for the animals and for the future of the
you know, the habitat and the wildlife in our state,
but in our world.

Speaker 3 (58:52):
But yeah, so it's it's a it's a tough go,
but it's it's it's just incredibly valuable work.

Speaker 2 (58:59):
And I will say, if you're interested in volunteering, the
one thing that is required is that you do have
to have those rabies pre exposure vaccinations. The CDC did
change the guidelines so it's only two doses now as
opposed to three. But we do require those for anybody
that wants to come here and handle the animals. But

(59:21):
if you just want to come here and do other
work or try to help us in other ways, we
are always happy to talk to raccoon lovers and wildlife
lovers and see if there's a way for people to
fit here. So we use all the help that we
could take, all the help that people can get. And
I have noticed that raccoons in particular seem to draw

(59:42):
really beautiful, open hearted, fabulous, funky people. So we have
quite a cool little a little army of raccoon were
those where we all are here. So it's great, I mean.

Speaker 1 (59:58):
Amazing you did, even when they're bigger the water around
and even though it's cute, so you know.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
Absolutely, and he and they're just they're just funny. I
mean yeah, they're just they surprise us all the time,
especially our non releasable population who we get to know
very well. And you know that the things that they
come up with, I mean it's just we're laughing all
the time. The trouble they can get into. Oh my
gunn is people say, oh, I want it's a pat and.

Speaker 3 (01:00:26):
I'm like, oh no, no, no, no.

Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
No, it's a lot, just a lot. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
I've had a there's a tump sanctuary two pins each
sanctuary in Florida, and I had them in a while
back and we were talking about that, because you know,
people see these movies and TV shows where they got
these mix cute little chimps that you came around in
the little papers and stuff for the little old fits,
and oh, there's so cute. I got to hold this,

(01:00:57):
and people don't realize that there's timp's great to be
like six feet tall, right, they are really must They're
very beautiful and could pretty much rip you apart if
they so chose to do so.

Speaker 3 (01:01:10):
So and raccoons are you know, I mean, I'm not.

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
I mean, we obviously have non releasables, so I mean
they're not in no house, but they're they're in their
own houses and enclosures there, and you know, I believe
that they are living very happy, fulfilled lives. So I
don't think that, you know, I mean, the ones that
we do release here have the choice. You know, we're
doing a soft release on our property much at the time,
so they would have the ability to come back, and

(01:01:37):
none of them ever do. So that tells me that
they're choosing to be wild, even though they have the
option to stay close. But the ones that medically cannot
be released and that we're doing, I think that we're
we're doing everything that we tend to keep them, you know,
enriched and happy and living their best lives and supported.
And I think they are those things, but it takes
a tremendous amount of work and the ability to have

(01:01:59):
them in something that you don't mind getting destroyed. And
you know, I guess that they're just something that's that
strong and intelligent and you know, excited about things is
going to just recavoc so well you get a remamber
as a special person.

Speaker 1 (01:02:13):
Yeah. And there's the world animals. I mean, if you
find one, oh in the wild, a baby. I mean,
I was bring you about. My aunt had a couple
of reccoons when I was a kid that they found
these babies and they kept them to have them like
as pets, and we're trying to you know, raise them
up and stuff. Did they say their lives yes? Did
they get mean?

Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
So you know, she she did eventually have to get
them back out either after having them at her in
her house, at her house for several months, and then
now you got to take them back out to the
world and say, are they gonna you know, even really
realize because you've had them at your house for several months.

Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
But sure, you can't keep I mean, and that's that's
the problem, is that, you know, there's.

Speaker 3 (01:02:53):
A certain age when the little ones are.

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
You know, biologically basically pro grammed to follow whoever's in charge.
So you know, if that's a person, they're going to
just be looking to that person for guidance. And you know,
it's very hard for people who aren't experienced with the
species to not think that, oh, it loves me, it's
got a special bond. It's just like just me and
you know, I mean, I'm sure that animal does you know,

(01:03:20):
care about them and is sort of specially bond to
them at that moment.

Speaker 3 (01:03:24):
But it's also part of biologically where they.

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
Are at that developmental phase is that they are going
to pick someone that is their surrogate mom, and they're
basically going to follow that person. And you know that's
not going to translate when their hormones kick in and
they become you know, adults, when they're meant to be
independent and they want to be released and they want
to go out and breathe, that's not going to be

(01:03:48):
the same. It's not the same as a domesticated animal.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
Well, and that's what I came to, I mean, I
don't mean, like, oh my god, the thing was going
crazy trying to attack them, but but yeah, because that's
what it wanted. It wanted to not being that cage,
and it was growing up in the phone and all
that stuff, and they were a lot more than what
my aunt was Thinkingom see you and I'm just oh
my gosh, so so yeah. Think twice, guys, before you

(01:04:15):
decide to take in any any wild animal, think twice
about it. Number one. Especially if you find a baby
alone or something. It does not always mean that the
parents or mother or whatever is not around. They could
be out foraging for food or you know, maybe there
was a predator or something that they led off away

(01:04:37):
from their babies. You just never know, and they were
going to come back. So don't just immediately assume you
know that that that baby is orphaned at that point.
Give it a little time to see if the parents
come back before you decide you're going to pick up
the animal. And then before you pick up the animal,
see if there's a rehaber like Sarah or somebody in
the area that you can call and talk to before

(01:05:00):
you do that, because they might be a certain way
you need to, you know, pick dead animal up or
handle dead animal to get to them, you know, and
you know, need to know that you can't give you
certain things like a lot of people think, oh, well,
let's give it some milk.

Speaker 2 (01:05:15):
No, yes, you will. You will kill a baby raccoon
if you give it cow's milk, so you know, and
and really calling your rehabber is key because every species
is different the behaviors. You know, rehabbers can identify whether
something is liable to be orphaned and in trouble and
tell you how to best give it the best chance
at being reunited with its mother. And if it does

(01:05:37):
need to go into care, you know, it needs to
go into the care of someone who is a professional
and who understands, you know, the needs of that species
and how to best you know, prepare it to go
back out into the wild. These animals really aren't meant
to be pets their first generation, you know, wildlife. They
need to be wild.

Speaker 1 (01:05:54):
So yep, that's exactly, and it's you know, and even
the winds you have that you're santuary with medical necessity,
you still are giving them that semblance of a world
type of life even though they're kept you know, there
because they can't make it on their own, but they
still get to be, you know, what they meant to
kind of be.

Speaker 2 (01:06:15):
So, yeah, they're not. They're not coming in as as pets.
And it wouldn't have been my first choice for them,
you know, of course, I wanted them all to be
perfectly happy and adopted and healthy and able to go
back out right in you know, the way. We've released
hundreds over the years, and and you know, that's the
life I would have rather than had. But you know,

(01:06:37):
they they didn't have that choice, so they we give
them the best we can.

Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
Yep, exactly. So well, so this is pretty much the
end of the podcast. I really appreciate you coming in
tonight and giving us all this awesome information about raccoons
and telling us all the cool stories you told us
and laughing. It was a really good discussion about them,
and hopefully everybody out there listening or that's gonna be listening,

(01:07:03):
learn some more things about them and about how much
fun they can be and and what to do if
they actually do find one.

Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
So well, I'm so grateful to you for your interests
and for having me on. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:07:15):
Yeah, i'd worked there. It was a great great discussion.
But I'm gonna let you know. I'm just gonna announce
my next coming uh up podcast for the next month.
And I know it's late your time. If you want
to jump off, you are more than welcome to jump off,
or you can stay on and listen to you what
I'm gonna be announcing, that's up to you. But that's

(01:07:36):
what I'm going to be letting my listeners knows just
about those next ones.

Speaker 2 (01:07:40):
Great, well, thank you so much, Lerie. A great thing
you're doing.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
Thanks, Sarah, I appreciate it. You have a good look too.
All right bye, all right, everybody goes sir. It was
a great podcast, hung guys. I really enjoyed the learning
more about the raccoons and aves fund things and everything.
So but now onto the next thing. So my next

(01:08:04):
upcoming uh podcast March sixth is the next month, and
I'm gonna have Shannon Manan. They're being edict this. I'm
hoping I said that correctly on the podcast. She's actually
producer director. She's been involved witho national geographic documentaries things like.

Speaker 2 (01:08:24):
That, and.

Speaker 1 (01:08:27):
Quote a few to be quite a few and not
just national geographic other uh you know, animal types of
documentaries and stuff like that too. She's produced, directed, and
been involved with And so Shanning's going to join me
and we're going to talk about what it's like to
be a woman, you know, producer, director, uh, entrepreneur in

(01:08:50):
in the field and making these types of documentaries and
what it was like to make these documentaries about all
these really cool animals that she made, you know, was
working on and to let us know more about I
guess you might say, and I'm not saying that correctly,
I know, but anyway, so yeah, so she'd be on
and give us more info about working on all those

(01:09:12):
really cool documentaries about animals, and I'm looking really forward
to that. I think it's gonna be awesome podcasts and
learning so much you know about what she does is
gonna be really cool. So I'm looking forward to speaking
with her. And then the next morning, March is gonna
be on March twentieth, and I'm gonna have an author
on with me named Jane Sharp, and then we'll be

(01:09:36):
talking about her book called Winston the Cat Well the
next suit and then she wrote this story as a
children's story. She's a children's author and she's actually got
quite a few different books and stuff out there for kids,
but anyway, this one hears about Winston the cat.

Speaker 2 (01:09:55):
And how.

Speaker 1 (01:09:58):
In the book their family or he's imagining how much
more help he can be for them if he has
a next suit that he can get around them to
help them. So anyway, it was kind of a cool
little kid's story. I looked it over. I think my
grandshold my granddaughters would enjoy it, so I think you
guys will enjoy it. And Susy to come on anyway

(01:10:19):
on March twentieth and tell us more about her book
and why she wrote it about Winston. You know, what
was her inspiration from Winston and why she wrote about
the cat and we were in your Next Suit. I
thought that was kind of interesting. So guys, those are
the next couple of podcasts that I have coming up

(01:10:40):
in March and looking forward to them. And again, I
hope you guys enjoyed the podcast tonight with Sarah about
the raccoons. And with all of that being said, I
hope you guys all have a very safe and wonderful weekend.
Don't get into too much trouble out there, and don't
forget to come on back in a couple of weeks
and they'll listening or listen to the next podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:11:04):
UH.

Speaker 1 (01:11:04):
Unfortunately, my UH podcast host has done away with UH
a lot of my live or with now a lot
they've done away with live podcasts completely. Just let you
guys know, so I don't have them live anymore. Unfortunately,
They'll all be recorded and I'm gonna keep the same

(01:11:25):
times for the recordings on Thursday nights at six pm.
But we doing the podcast from six to seven and
then I happen to get it published and if we
go over any or if I need to do any
kind of editing, I'm not gonna be able to give
it up and published. And what you've listened to until
at least eight o'clock that evening UH arizon the time

(01:11:48):
Mountain standard, it would be UH. Depending on day of
Bay savings time, it could be ten or eleven pm
Eastern and Pacific. Day by time. You're in the summer time.
After the time switches a March, you're on our time
or my time as well, so specific day by time
in the summer will be the same time A at
eight pm.

Speaker 2 (01:12:09):
UH.

Speaker 1 (01:12:09):
Otherwise, UH, you guys are working in an hour over
the year, which would be more like seven pm when
I get it up and ready. So anyway, uh, I
just wanted to let you guys know that that's what's going on.

Speaker 2 (01:12:20):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:12:21):
I'm not sure if I'm gonna change my hosting platform
because of this, cause I do like the large shows,
but I also like my host platform and all the
uh things that they give me on it. So again,
just wanted to make you all aware if you didn't
see it when I posted it on Facebook and when
I posted it in my descriptions here. Uh, the podcast

(01:12:42):
is no longer live and it won't be getting published
out until eight pm Mountain Standard and which is ten
or eleven pm Eastern time. So sorry about that, guys,
but that's how it goes, alright, and you guys have
a good night and hopefully have me back in a
couple weeks by now.