Calling All Creatures Presents Untamed Vision: An Emmy-Winning Filmmaker's Journey

This weeks podcast is really interesting! I'm stepping into the wild with award-winning documentary filmmaker Shannon Malone-deBenedictis who's work has taken us all around the globe and even into space! Through her lens we've witnessed rare and intimate moments of nature, fragile ecosystems in balance, and heartwarming bonds between creatures large and small. Join us as we explore her journey and talk about the challenges of filming in the wild and where her journey has taken her more recently.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Good evening everybody, and welcome to Calling All Creatures. I
am your host, Lori, and tonight I have an interesting
guest on with me. We're gonna be talking with Shannon
Malone de Benedictis, and she is an award winning documentary
filmmaker for several large brands. I'm sure many of you

(00:25):
have probably heard of National Geographic and along those.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Lines stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
She's also a creative consultant speaker, you know, guest speaker,
like she's on my podcast tonight, and she's also a facilitator.
So I'm really happy that you were able to join
me tonight. Shannon, thank you for being on the podcast.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
Thrilled to be here. I love having good conversations and
just you know, having fun, So let's do it.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Awesome.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
So why don't you just start out and just like
tell us a little bit about yourself. Did you ever
think that, you know, you end up working in the
film industry doing documentaries and all that kind of stuff,
or did you think your life would take a different path.

Speaker 3 (01:10):
Now, I always was creative, ever since I was a
little kid. I was really creative. I wrote my first
play when I was nine. It wasn't very good that
I wrote a play when I was nine, and I
really enjoyed movies and was a movie addict, so I
wanted to get into filmmaking. Now that wasn't my parents' plan.
My father was determined that all of his kids become lawyers.

(01:31):
But after growing up debating him my entire life, my
entire childhood, I didn't want to become a lawyer. I
got burned out on debating things. So I convinced my
parents that I really wanted to go to a film
or video school, and ended up at the Savannahology Art
Design and studied filmmaking and studied narratives and how to
put it all together, and just my love of it

(01:54):
continued to grow funnily enough, comically enough. But one class
I didn't take was documentary filmmaking. I I was hoping
to do more like theatricals, or do more art pieces,
but life sometimes doesn't play that way, doesn't happen that way.
And I was working in Chicago, doing my own thing,

(02:15):
going to graduate school. I was working as a talent agent,
and I needed to move home, and home is Washington, DC,
and my mother was sick with early offs at Alzheimer's
and my siblings, and I decided we had to come
home and take care of her. And so I went
out drinking with a buddy of mine and he happened

(02:36):
to be the nighttime supervisor for editors, and he said,
you always were a good editor. I'm sorry at Discovery Channel,
why don't you come work for me? And so that
began my career in documentary filmmaking. It was, I like
to say, life strongery roadblocks, and so you got to
find a way to maneuver around him. And that was
nineteen ninety nine, and I fell in love with telling stories.

(03:00):
They were true stories, documentaries. I realized I could still
fill that creative passion except they were they were real.
I wasn't making it up and I was learning the
entire time, and and so I grew and it so
it did fulfill that dream of making films. It did
fulfill that that that desire to be really creative. It

(03:22):
just happened to be in another silo that I.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
Didn't really expect, right right one is cad of close.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
So so then you got your start with National Geographic
basically as what an editor.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
I got my start at the Discovery Channel.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
Discovery Channel as an editor and I and.

Speaker 3 (03:39):
I worked at the Discovery Channel and the Discovery Networks
for eight years and during my time there, I started
as an editor and then worked my way up as
a producer slash editor. And then, Uh, my personality is
such that I I'm good at solving problems, but when
a computer breaks down or has a glitch, it just
brings out the wholek in me. So I said, you

(04:00):
know what, I'm going to move away from editing. I
just can't. It would break me down. And so I
just became a full time producer after that at the
Discovery Channel. And while I was there, I got to
work in some amazing projects like Discovery Atlas and the
US version of Planet Earth, and that was the beginning
of my flory into wild film linking. And then I

(04:23):
left Discovery Channel went over to National Geographic, and while
I was there, I was a producer, but I also
went into show commissioning what's called development, and I worked
with producers all over the globe finding perfect content, finding
really good content for National Geographic, including shows like Taboo
and Shark Men and Wicked Tuna and Search for the

(04:44):
Amazon Pet Shrinkers. That's one of my favorites.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
Oh I'm going to.

Speaker 3 (04:49):
Yeah. No, searcially, Amazon had Shrinkers was it's an incredible
expedition about this old film that was found that actually
showed the process of head shrinking of the and of
the Ashore tribe in South America. And we went and
tried to determine if it was real, and it termed
out it was real. It was this incredible footage that

(05:10):
was found. And there's always this fascination, you know, that's
you've got not only is it the anthropological fascination of headshrinking,
but also you know, a fourteen year old kid going
head shrinking. Oh my goodness, you know. So it was
that was a very fun special that we did. And uh,
and then I grew and you know, a long way

(05:31):
away from editing, became an executive and show commissioner and
running crews out and helping commission shows during my time
at Red Rock and after that. So it's been it's
it's been a growth pattern. And while I was at
Red Rock, I became the I became then the producer,
and my clients included National Geographic Channel, Disney Plus, Sesame Studios, Netflix,

(05:53):
Masonian Channel, a wide variety of different clients, and a
wide variety of content, but primarily the majority of the
work I did with them while I can't make it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
Yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
Got to tell you when you're talking about becoming a
hulk with the computers. Yeah, that's been my last couple
of months, because that's I basically do do. I do
a lot of stuff on the computer. So and mine
has been really acting up for the last couple of months,
and we've been trying to figure it out, and we
can't figure out what's going on. And I'm like, I'm
ready to throw these things.

Speaker 3 (06:25):
Oh yeah, no, I had a problem. I had a
problem about a month ago. And my office is in
the basement. My husband's office is on the second floor
of the upstairs, so we have the main floor in between.
And all of a sudden, he just heard this like
rage scream. He heard it all the way on the
third floor, and the dog hid under the bed, and

(06:48):
he's like, oh, she must be having computer problems. So
I'm like, this is why I stopped being an editor.
I don't have the patience for it. It's just it
sets me off for some reason. I can handle other things,
but when my computer doesn't want it just sets me
off right.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
I can't blame you.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
That's me too, because, like I said, the majority of
my work is on the computer, so it's like, yeah, yeah,
why aren't you working, you stupid thing?

Speaker 3 (07:13):
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
Yeah, I know. I love that.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
I've been living that the last couple of months. And
it's funny because when you said for the headshrinkers of
the you know, that fourteen year old kid, I was like, oh,
the fourteen year old kid of me came out.

Speaker 3 (07:27):
Yeah, yeah, it's exactly it. I think that's their things
that we're just we're just naturally curious about, you know,
seeing the world, seeing things, understanding how things work. And
and i'd like to say that I try to find
that fourteen year old inside of you. And part of
that is because fourteen year olds moves hortun year olds,
you know, not all, but they can understand higher concepts,

(07:48):
but they still get and they still get really excited
about them. They get really really jazz by headshrinking or
giant squid or you know that sharks are able to
move this back, et cetera. So those are the things
we try to tap into to get really to get
people passionate about what the stories we're talented, but that's
how we feel. We're passionate about it. How can we

(08:09):
how can we bring the audience along with them? Right right?

Speaker 1 (08:13):
Well, like I said, I think I'll be honest with
you have a seventeen year old grandson, and I think
if I brought up Headshrinkers to him, he would probably
be like, oh really.

Speaker 3 (08:21):
Yeah, exactly exactly, So it's not just a younger one,
you know. Nope.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
All right, Well, why don't you tell us just a
little bit about you actually have won a couple Emmy
Awards for some of your documentaries. Can you tell us
a little bit about which documentaries they were that.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
You won the awards for it?

Speaker 3 (08:51):
Oh? Sure, sure. So I worked on a main series
with National Geographic and Jesney Claus called The Secrets of
the Whales collaboration with the Nasha Geographic photographer and incredible
collaborator Brian Scary. And this is during my time at
Redrock Films and with the director's Ryan Armstrong and the

(09:11):
Mitchell of just a fantastic crew, and we were able
to travel the world. I think we ended up filling
to filming on six out of seven continents and following
sperm whales humpback Whales Orca and then a combined all
wall in the Luga, and we told our stories because

(09:32):
what they're discovering that as long as we're suspected, but
now we have more approved, is that whales have a culture.
They have culture of my humans are a lot more
like the scent wanted to admit. And we showed this
and I really thankful and it's an incredible project to
work on, and then it won the Outstanding Documentary Series

(09:53):
in twenty twenty one, and then about a year later
a series we worked on filming in in Africa. We
filmed with the Jackass penguins in South Africa series or
Netflix called Penguin Town and created a little drama about
their lives when they come on shore ate and lay
eggs and then have their offspring. And that that was

(10:17):
a lot of fun, a lot of filming, a lot
of dealing with penguins who are or give me a
little ornery, but also cute at the same time. And that,
you know, just a shout out to Alex Sutton, Handley,
Cristo Sale, Cristo, Sean Brian Handle of the team that
we went together. And that was with definitely and h

(10:37):
that one outstanding nature and adventure series the daytime end
for that as well as if few others include cinematography,
and there was a defer one. I'm sorted. I can
never remember what blood, but you know these The thing
about winning the series and doing these series, especially Wildline series,
is not just one person. And I jokingly say, it's

(10:57):
about a team of arm and betakes them.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
Oh yeah, because.

Speaker 3 (11:02):
There's so much time out in the field. You know,
there's working with collaborators and fixers and director's photography and
producers and editors and sounds and all of that to
put together to make it look community, to make a
books and place of people can experience it in their
living room. And it was I was really really proud

(11:23):
to be a part of it, see and the fact
that they we were recognized for this incredible project we
got to work on it. So it's been a real
honor to talk about that and talk about them and
be with them through their starting. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:36):
I thought it would be penguins. I thought that would
be kind of cute, you know, to work with them
and kind of film them. But I would imagine, you know, yeah,
I remember they're wild animals of course, but they are cute,
but there.

Speaker 3 (11:51):
And in Simonstown where they where they are, they go
and they they'll find backyards, you know, it's a nest in,
They'll find little nooks. They will go and knock people,
shut people off their beach blanket. You know. It's it's
it's kind of like it's a coexistence and they're wild
animals and you know, they were there before us, so okay,

(12:12):
they have the right to try to claim their territory
and and get a little squawky and recall jackass penguins
because when they when they when they vocalize, it sounds
like a jackass. So it's like heehaw, it sounds So
just imagine all these little birds just like praying at you.
You know. So it's cute and at the same time,

(12:33):
it's like, okay, love little guy, just move on, move on.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
After a bit, it would be a little bit annoying.
It just a.

Speaker 3 (12:40):
Little bit of a bit annoying. But yeah, they really
really are. And one thing that I've enjoyed about doing
these documentaries and what I bring to animal documentaries is
I've always been incredibly cosensitive. I cry at the drop
of a hat. I uh, you know, it's it's I became.
The kind of measure in the office is like, if

(13:02):
Shannon starts crying or Shannon gets upset, we're doing our
job right. Things are good. That's how we want to
do And you know, I rewatch that series recently again
and I still get choked up. I still laugh. I
still care about the birds who profile. So you know,
the team just did an amazing job and and again

(13:23):
it makes me cry, makes me laughs. It hasn't a
reaction to me. For me, this shows the success and
so that's our goal is to make people really care
and feel part of it.

Speaker 2 (13:33):
Yeah, yeah, I'll tell you I have.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
I'm going to go watch the Penguin one just because,
like I said, they're cute.

Speaker 3 (13:43):
There is penguin sex in the first episode, but really
it's not okay, and I think there was. I had
a friend reach out to me and said, you know,
my six year old daughter wants to watch it. What
do you think. And I'm like, well, there's penguin sex
in the first episode, but it's penguin sex, so you know,

(14:06):
it's not really like startling. It's like, okay, I've been worn.
And he messaged me he's like that was nothing. I'm like, yeah,
it's penguin sex.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
So some people, if you're going to watch it, just
before warn you have kids, you may.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
Want to just look first before you let them watch it.

Speaker 3 (14:26):
Just say they're dancing.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
It's fine, great, that's great penguin sex.

Speaker 3 (14:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
So I actually went and watched.

Speaker 1 (14:35):
I was we were talking a little bit before the podcast,
but I went and watched The Secrets of the Whales
and I really liked that series, and that one had
me in different places. I was crying about some of
the things and everything that you know, and all the
pollution and everything that we're doing in these oceans and
what it's doing to the whales. I was just like,

(14:57):
oh my god. And I mean I know about it,
but when you see it, you know like that too.
And then the turtles and everything, and thank god that
you know, the divers and stuff were helping the turtles out,
because yeah, that's just crazy that some of these nets
and and the trash and everything in the oceans. And
and then the one with the Narwal that lost his

(15:21):
pod and he ended up with the Belugas.

Speaker 2 (15:23):
And I was like, oh, please take him in, Oh
please take him in.

Speaker 3 (15:27):
Yep. Yeah, And he got adopted. I mean, that was
such a moment when we were we didn't know when
we were out with that crew, we had no idea
what was going to happen. And so was it going
to be a heroic ending, a happy ending, or was
it could be a sad ending? And so we were
we were all thrilled as well that he ended up
or she or she ended up with that auDA. But

(15:49):
you know, it's it's something we see a lot in nature,
and we see most of the times we try to
profile and try to show the beauty and the wonder
that's in it, but there's pollution, you know, wildfires, climate
change that have impacted flooding, and also just you know,
cruelty of not only the wild but also what man does.

(16:12):
We we we don't try to hide it, but we
also don't don't want to actually amplify it either. And
and that turtle scene was was hugely emotional because and
a difficult decision for us because typically it's it's pretty
much a code with wildlife filmmakers is we're there there,
We're there to document, We're not there to to interfere,

(16:34):
We're not there to in But that was the situation
where thankfully that you Crewe the director out in the field, said,
you know what, we we humans caused this. We're the
ones who did this. We're gonna we're going to act
because it's not right for something that pollution, the things

(16:56):
that have happened that we are not going to We're
we're not to stand by and just watch this happen.
And we thought a little guff from some people, but
overall we stood by our decision.

Speaker 1 (17:09):
Well those people they gave you guff, can go take
it right over there, because seriously, seriously, when they because
I actually from talking you know, to different people, I
know about you know the code, you know where you're
not supposed to you know, you shouldn't be interfering it
like that. But because the same thing with the sharks

(17:32):
and stuff like that, and you know the shark nets
that they put out along the shores of Australia to
try to keep the sharks from getting up you know
where the swimmers and stuff are, and it's catching all
the turtles and other marine life and stuff in these nets.
And same thing they were doing documentaries over there about
stuff and you know, seeing these turtles and other animal,

(17:53):
dolphins and stuff like that, being stuck in these nets,
and they actually made the same call you guys did,
and they went and they did free because and I'm sorry,
but thank you and more power to you guys for
doing that, because yeah, yeah, exactly, I can't believe anybody
would even think that.

Speaker 3 (18:10):
Yeah, I'm sorry, I was.

Speaker 1 (18:12):
Just gonna say, I can't believe anybody would even think
it would be our rate to just watch that animal
stuck and suffering like that to die, because you should,
you know, you're not supposed to interfere. That's just to me,
not especially like you guys said. It was caused by
our own pollution.

Speaker 3 (18:30):
Yeah, we did we we humans did it, So let's
rectify the situation. So yeah, you know, my my general
feeling is okay, bring on with them. I still stand
by the decision. We still stand by the decision. Yeah,
with you. I absolutely agree with you.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
Yeah, I think you probably find a lot more people
would stand behind you guys than there would be against
that decision.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
So anyway, but.

Speaker 1 (18:55):
So you were talking about, you know how one with
penguins and the other ones, you've gotten to travel around
to a lot of different continents and stuff to do
your filming and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
What's it like getting to travel.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
Around and you know, the globe and do the documentaries
and stuff like that. I'm sure you guys have been
to some very interesting places.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
Why you've been doing this.

Speaker 3 (19:17):
I've been some really fantastic places. I also work with
people who go to much more crazier places than I do,
so I want to make I want to make that clear.
I am someone, like I mentioned, I fell into documentary filmmaking.
I'm a city mouse. I'm fine with being a city mouse.
I've gone and filmed and been with crews in different places,

(19:40):
and I know people who are more than happy to
go sleep on an ice flow for three weeks, bearers
or do things. I'm like, I'm fine with my coffee
here in my heat at home. So you guys go
do that and I'll catch you on the back end.
But I've been really, really fortunate too. I've I've swum
with sharks or I filmed sharks before. In China, I

(20:02):
nearly got run over by a water buffalo on the
right with the rice patties near Glavin Let's see. I
would say that I swum with orcas, but actually I
didn't have a bathing suit, So I just took off
my shirt and stuck my head into the water, and
they swim by me. I think that's kind of that's

(20:23):
kind of something with them. But what I really have
enjoyed in the places that I've gone, it's been it's
been great to meet people all over the world and
see these incredible places and and you know, learn the
differences in the cultures. But the most important thing I've
learned is just how like we are across the world.

(20:44):
And I have I have experienced some of the most
kind people in places you wouldn't imagine, you know. I
was once invited in in a very rundown neighborhood in Beijing.
I was invited in by a family who had no

(21:08):
indoor plumbing to play maj on and have tea and
just as a lovely hostess and to just be friendly.
I have. I've run around with kids around the hair
and desert outside of in Egypt, uh near i Waste
this town called Sila. Lovely people. So it's it's been,

(21:32):
it's been really eye opening, and I feel very thankful.
I feel very very thankful, and I appreciate the awe
and wonder I get the food over you know and
and experience right now. And I've been working on a
on a series in the Yellowstone region and spending a

(21:54):
lot of time out in Idaho and my Hannah and
Wyoming and meeting amount of people there and what are
going to preserve and protect the Yellowstone Grand Titan region.
And they're passionate and I I am, you know, am
energized by their passion for the animals and for the landscape.

(22:14):
So I get to see a lot of great places
and I never take it for grantic.

Speaker 1 (22:19):
I never have to take it for granted, right right,
I mean that would be that would be one of
the I mean not just being out there and getting
to see and learn about all these different animals, but yeah,
the different cultures and meeting the people and doing the
things like you know, like you've been for like you said,
fortunate enough enough to do, you know, having the tea
with the family and things like that.

Speaker 2 (22:39):
That would be the really cool part of that job, you.

Speaker 1 (22:44):
Know, getting to do that kind of stuff. I could
see that being the really cool part.

Speaker 3 (22:49):
Yeah, it's it's it's it's great now, it's not. Uh,
working with the animals are great. One thing I will
say is that in most wildline filmmakers I think up
on this is we not only have a passion for
wildlife and for the while, but also a really healthy
respect wild animals. And uh, these are not past These

(23:14):
are our creatures who you know, they live in their
own world and we're intruding on their world, and so
it's something we treat them with a lot of respect
and a lot of dignity and uh, and a healthy
a healthy dose of caution, right describing.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
Well, and that was going to be the you know,
my next question was, you know, how hard is it
to do these documentaries on wildlife? I mean, you guys,
don't these these things aren't shot really in shorter periods
of times. These these films and documentaries are usually done
over a period of weeks, months, sometimes years, just depending
on what you're doing and trying to get the you know,

(23:58):
the right times, the right the situations, the right shots
of what you're looking for and stuff like that. So,
I mean it must be pretty difficult at times to
do these types of documentaries.

Speaker 3 (24:09):
It's not for uh, it's not for people who like
things very organized. I've worked with junior people who wanted
to do wildline filmmakers and they want to have everything planned,
everything completely set up, and you know exactly what's going
to happen from A to B from the beginning. And
that's not why someone at all. You have to plan

(24:32):
for the completely unpredictable situations. And you're right. So, for example,
Secrets of the Whales, I believe it was over two
years of filming. I think the amount of the data
we came back with went back to computers. You know,
that was all shot with the best cameras on the planet,
and I think it's enough data to go to the

(24:52):
Moon and back in terms of you've just made it out.
That's how much footage we came back with. And you know,
whales aren't just hanging out. Animals aren't just hanging out
waiting for their clothes up right, So yeah, I mean
that's that's uh. I was on a vacation once and
I was on a cruise ship and there was some
complaining on day two that they were really mad they

(25:13):
were on the ocean. Why happen the dolphin or a
shark girl bailing at and it's like, we're not hanging out,
you know. I was like, hey, how you doing? You know,
that's just not the case, you know, to get to
get these shots, to get the things that people see.
It's it's very time consuming. It's a lot of patients.
You work a lot with experts on the ground, scientists, conservationists,

(25:34):
tour guides, et cetera, who commit their day to day
life of protecting these animals. And then you so you
do do you make a plan and this is your
best odds, and even with those best thoughts, you hope,
you hope that you're it's going to pay off. You
hope that it's going to work. And I've worked on
shows where you know, we've allocated two weeks of filming

(25:58):
and we've got and all the shots we need within
two to three days or four days. And I've worked
on others where you know, one thing about sharks and
you mentioned in Australia is it's a great if a
orca comes into a great white shark's territory, the great
white sharks disappear. Yeah, that's exactly it. They leave because

(26:22):
it's there's like a bigger, batter predator who's moved in.
And so if you're planning on filming great whites or
hoping you're going to work for great whites, like they're gone.
Maybe the way back in four to six months, we
had one shoot where a hurricane flew it. Oh wow,
do anything about mother nature? Yes, that's just what happened.

(26:43):
So it's a lot of patients. It's it takes a
lot of time. But with if you do the research
and do the analysis, the odds get better. The odds
really get better. And those are the best filmmakers. The
best filmmakers are the ones who who look at every
possible scenario, get everything lined up, and then it's okay,

(27:04):
you know, the odds are pretty good that the sharks
are going to show up here. For the odds are
pretty good that you know, we're going to be able
to capture a wolverine moving through the forest. So it's uh, yeah,
you yet animals, it's probably like adult kids animals in
terms of easy to work with wild animals not easy.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
And it's funny that you said wolverine's moving through the forest,
because just a few weeks ago I had someone that
would the Wolverine Foundation and we were discussing wolverines and
about how hard it is to see even even see
a wolverine out in the wild because there's such solitary animals.

Speaker 3 (27:48):
Yeah, so yeah, I have a I have a buddy
who works on wolverine films and films, and he's about
rate of film that he's actually about rady to start
one another one. And he's only in Finland. And it's
because they know where they are in Finland. But you know,
they're all over North America. You just never see them.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
And unfortunately they're not in Michigan, which the state.

Speaker 3 (28:12):
What do you think they would be that?

Speaker 1 (28:19):
That was a very interesting thing that we brought up
during the podcast because there's only been one wolverine ever
cited this far as I know, in Michigan, and it
passed away.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
It was a female.

Speaker 3 (28:31):
Well you'll appreciate that. So I had some friends visiting
from South Africa and I brought them here, I outside
Washing DP and I brought them on a on a
walk right near Great Falls in the canal there and
one of them said, oh, we saw a badger And
I said, no, no, we did we saw a badger.

(28:52):
I said, there are no badgers in the DC Virginia
now an area we don't have badgers, and they're like,
we swear we saw one. I'm like, okay, So we're
walking back to the car after the hike, and all
they go, there, there, there it is, here's the badger.
And I looked and like you need the groundhog. We
went yeah, yeah, that's not a badger, that's just the groundhog.

(29:14):
And they were like, oh, we thought it was a
badgroom like no, it's just like a giant like yeah.
So it was funny to see them because they immediately
thought that it was a badger and that type of family.
I'm like, no, no, sorry, sorry.

Speaker 2 (29:29):
That's great, that's great.

Speaker 3 (29:30):
Yeah, yeah, you.

Speaker 2 (29:31):
Can't blame moment. Maybe you know from South Africa, but
still that's just really funny.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
Oh sure, sure, but it's like you need the groundhog,
something we take for granted, and they were like look
at it. I'm like, okay, this is probably how they
react when we're like, oh, book a mere cat, you know,
when we're in Africa wouldn't be good in Africa. So
it was it was a very funny moment that I
will not that Dino damp right.

Speaker 1 (29:56):
My thinking is if you actually got close enough to
see a badger, you might want to try to run.

Speaker 3 (30:01):
That's that too, exactly exactly. They're known to be fairst
for a very good reason. Stay with the wolverine, you know, exactly.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
Exactly, there's a reason they're solitary animals.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
They don't even like each other.

Speaker 3 (30:18):
No, No, they have a reputation. Respect the reputation that
gets back to again, those wildlife filmmakers. We have a
healthy respect for the personalities and everything those animals brings.
It bring to the table. It's like, yeah, I'm not
going to go near that. That's okay, that's okay, that's fine.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
Right, I'm good with that too. Oh my goodness.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
So when you guys are, you know, thinking about making
a documentary, what's kind of the process that you guys
go through for deciding what you think might make a
good documentary.

Speaker 3 (30:50):
Well, we first look at what the idea is, and
then we want to say, what is the what's going
to be the hook that's going to bring in the audience,
what's the new discovery or the angle or the thing
that makes it feel unique? And do people really want
to watch it? Is people interested in this? It could

(31:11):
be a big revelation, It could be something like you know,
True Crime Do Justice all the time, where it's a
you're revealing a news, a breakthrough life they call the
crime or you have access to get inside and exactly
how it happens. For wildlife documentaries, I think, is there
is there a way that I can present this that
feels personal, that makes people passionate about it. And yeah,

(31:37):
there's been hundreds thousands of documentaries about lions and bears
and all the animals be all up. So what's going
to be the factor that's going to make it feel
unique and connect with people? And it could just be
putting a really great narrator on it makes it feel
really personal. And Tom Hanks just that they did the
one that's on Peacock about the American wilderness.

Speaker 2 (31:57):
I know I need to watch that one. I thought
that would be really good.

Speaker 3 (32:01):
Yeah, and you can see Tom Hanks would bring a
very different perspective, We bring an interesting insight, you know,
to it. So he would make the material feel very
new and fresh.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
And just imagine for us Gum talking about animals.

Speaker 3 (32:13):
I'm just saying, yeah, that's it. And so it's like, oh, okay,
that makes it work. So what's going to make that
element that's going to make it feel special, that's going
to make it feel like people should watch this? When
people will want to watch it. So a show that
I developed an executive produced called Inside the Mind of
a Cat that's on Netflix. We looked at that from

(32:34):
the perspective of, Okay, we want this to be watched
by people who love cats, and we know that's you know,
a huge demographic out there, but also people who maybe
don't love cats that are serious about what makes a
cat tick. So it wasn't just cat lovers. It was
also people who were like, well, you know, why do

(32:55):
it fy? Does the cat always lay on his feet?
Why do cats roam at night? Why do cats? Do
cats love you? Which think we have castrop up their
of her owners, do of your people? You know? We
answered those questions with the scientists and knew that we
were going to capture an audience to you know, we're
curious to find out about these little features that live

(33:15):
them for the monster. But that's how we really figure
out what's a good documentary, what's gonna what's maybe not gonna,
you know, resonate because I say this a lot. If
you make a documentary for yourself and only something that
you care about, then then it's it's a tree falling
in the woods and may that he's there. You know,
you have to make it for other people. You have

(33:37):
to make it for that audience who's going to appreciate it.
And sometimes that's hard for creative people and hard it's
hard for me at times. I'm really passionate about something,
but is this something that the audience is going to
be passionate about as well? And that's how you decide.
It's because you have the documentary one that maybe shouldn't
be made or just given.

Speaker 1 (33:56):
A git a land, because you know, sometimes people think
that things would make good documentaries, but then they really
wouldn't make a good you know, and that you know,
like you said, people what they want to.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
Watch and stuff like that, what they're interested in.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
So yeah, I it would be kind of a process,
you know, trying to figure it out.

Speaker 3 (34:16):
Yeah, and sometimes you talk to people sometimes you just
I have season tickets to the Washington National Baseball team.
The people I sit with are like family to me.
We've we've all been hanging out together every summer for
fifteen years. Actually, I think we're coming into the twentieth
anniversary twenty eight, twenty years we've been hanging out together.

(34:38):
And I will routinely say, hey, guys, would you have
to watch a documentary about life, and they're not in television.
But I'm curious to see what the reaction is, curious
to see what they think if that's something that's feeling
or intriguing to them. And if it's not, then I
go back and I reevaluate, you know, maybe it's the
way I presented it, or maybe just it doesn't have legs.

(35:01):
And a lot of times I think for documentaries and
other things, it's is it doesn't make a documentary or
is it a really good news story? Does this feel
like it should only be six minutes, you know, as
opposed to an hour or four hours? What can it
really sustain telling that story for a really long time?

(35:21):
And look, we've all sat after TV shows and movie
where you're like, oh, dear God, why hasn't just ended?
This is just going on and on and on, And
you certainly don't want that with a documentary. You don't
want people turning it off because you're just dragging it out.
So that's another way you look at it is does
it have enough content, enough legs, it's a story interesting
enough to keep the audience in audience engage for that

(35:45):
long time? And Junior stafford worked in me and have
walked in and I don't want to make you fearful
for that. Locked in and they don't tell me their
idea of life sounds like a news story and they're like, oh,
I'm like, tell me minute twenty eight, and it's can't
tell me minute twenty eight. They then just like, oh,
it's a new sources and a reality. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
It's funny because I've always thought that a documentary about
the life of or a few days or week or
something in the life of an animal control officer would
be interesting. But that's because I used to do that
for a job. But it's funny because another thing that
always thought is, with that being said, people don't realize

(36:35):
I don't think too a lot of times, you know,
what animal control officers kind of do, because yes, they're
you know, they do stuff to work with the animals,
they try to save animals and stuff like that, but
we also have a role of public safety for people
because you know, we have to keep you know, uh,
dangerous dogs and stuff like that off of the streets

(36:56):
that are you know, trying to attack people and things
like that. And so it's just interesting because I don't
think a lot of people see both sides of the coin,
but I always thought it would be interesting for something
like that. But again that's me and my friends because
we did animal control.

Speaker 3 (37:09):
No, it is. It is interesting because I remember a
long time ago Animal Animal Planet tried to do one
that was on animal control. I think they did it.
They profiled the Philly Animal Control and this was after
Pitbulls and g leaves. This is a show that it
was after that, and I think that the reason I

(37:29):
agree with you. I think it's fascina. And as someone
who worked from dog rescue, I know a lot of
the work that animal control does. But I remember there
was a time I was at National Geographic and there
was a show that we commissioned that was hugely successful
in Europe, but it wasn't successful here. And the show

(37:50):
was called Inside Nature's Giants, and it was various animals
and they had passed away from natural causes and this
was their promptly. So it was like the wrap an elephant,
a alligator, shark, you know, and so it was looking

(38:10):
at the anatomy of these incredible creatures, right and it
it It did horribly in the US. These are really
good shows. It's a great in Europe, and it did
horribly in the US, and it caused us to kind
of step back and go, why didn't this work? Because

(38:30):
you know, you can watch a show and go, this
is a really good show, but something isn't resonating with
the audience, right, And I remember my thoughts were here
in the United States, we have all our meat packaged
and wrapped in plastic when we go to the grocery store.

(38:51):
We're we're very disconnected to the maybe the harsh realities
of the wild. We're very disconnected where in places like
France and places in Germany, there they use the whole animal.
You know, they go to butcher shops and you know,
I've gone from market places in France and Germany and

(39:13):
it's all out. You don't have that that much here
in the United States. And I think that that I
think we're a little squeamish when it comes to those things.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
It could very well be.

Speaker 3 (39:26):
Yeah, I think that as an American culture, and I
think we're a little squeamish. And I think that the
amazing work that Animal Control does, I think it's for
some people in the audience it's like I love the
work they do. I don't want to know about it
because it'll upset me too much. And it's a shame.

(39:47):
It's a shame because the work is done is amazing
and if maybe people know about it that it would
prevent a lot of things from happening, right.

Speaker 2 (39:55):
Right, I think so too. And then you know, and
that's the whole thing.

Speaker 3 (39:59):
I mean.

Speaker 2 (39:59):
Even when I was at the end of the animal.

Speaker 1 (40:04):
Control that I did, I was managing an animal shelter
and it's just a small one, but you know, I
was able to go in there and make some changes,
make a difference. But some of the things that people
would say or they would think and would just look
at them, like I had one lady come in one
time and she literally said to me that it must
be easier for me to put dogs down that weren't

(40:28):
my own. And I was like, you're kidding me right now?

Speaker 3 (40:33):
Right?

Speaker 1 (40:35):
So, yeah, So people don't lot sometimes get a have
a grasp on the toll it takes on people doing
that type of job a lot of times. Yeah, and
they don't want to know about it, You're right. A
lot of times they don't want to know about it.
They don't want to know about Oh my gosh, I

(40:56):
took you know, my beautiful little buddy boy in because
I decided I didn't have, you know, enough time to
spend with him, and I thought he was going to
get a great home, and that's not what the outcome was.
So yeah, I know a lot of people are like that.
And I just a few weeks ago had a podcast
where I had Catherine Carver on and she is a

(41:18):
photographer and she actually did a photographed book called Abandon
chronicling the animals, dogs and shelters and so back back
on the East Coast, I think in Maryland where she's at.
But anyway, it was a really good book and it
was a good conversation because she went in and she

(41:41):
like photographed they came most of them, I think we're
in the rescue there, but somewhere in the shelters. But
she went in and she photographed them, and then like
a year later she went back and then you know,
if they were adopted or then she got permission to
come in and photograph them again and get comments from
the people that adopted them. But there were you know,

(42:02):
several in there that did not make it out, and
when she got to that, she had their first photograph
and then it was just a blank black page.

Speaker 3 (42:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:12):
So wow, yeah, so very very good book depicting things
like that. You know, she she didn't hold back when
she because you know, people, that's the whole problem.

Speaker 3 (42:25):
You know.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
People don't want to know things, they don't want to
face things, they want to put their heads in the sand.
And that's why things never get changed and things don't
get better because they want to ignore things going on.
Just like with climate change, so many people want to
ignore that too, And I'm just like, jeez, people, you know,
if you just just quit listening to everybody around you
and just sit back and think about how the weather

(42:47):
and stuff used to be back when maybe you were
a kid, if you know, if you're say mine in
your ages and stuff like that. I know I might
be a little older than you, but you know, when
you stop and think about it, the climate was different
back when we were kids compared to what it is now.
So I you know, I'm not going to argue with
people about whether there's climate change or not. But again,

(43:08):
I just say, hey, let's just be intelligent and step
back and take a good look at it for yourself
and quite listening to all the propaganda out there.

Speaker 3 (43:15):
Yeah, that's that's that's exactly it. And so it's it's
getting people to listen and finding a way to get
people to listen. And you know, it's if you if
you've got a platform and you can do it, Like
it's the amazing work you're doing with this podcast. It's great.
Corporations sometimes don't want to take chances, don't want to

(43:36):
take risks, and that's why you don't see sometimes those
things that happened. But it's like, I have a buddy
in I have a buddy in Norwegian right now is
he's been working on a series about whale about stuvean
steel off the coause you think of Zimbabwe who get
caught in fishing them and they go and rest and

(43:58):
it's like it's amazing, incredible, dramatic and it's selling. It's
doing really well. That makes me happy because for him
and it's selling people actively out there helping rescue the
animals and showing the kind of reality that we humans do.

Speaker 2 (44:12):
Yeah, that's awesome.

Speaker 3 (44:14):
Yeah. So it's it's fine making sure that it gets
to the audience, because nothing's more frustrating. You're really passionate
about something and you put it out there and it
just nobody responds.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
Nobody respond yeah, making Kate put the ones out about
the kangaroo and I hate this. I can't remember the
name of the documentary. I'm Pluto TV for you can
watch it for free, but oh my god, and kind
of like that. I mean, they went in and they
showed what's going on with them killing the kangaroos and
stuff over there in Australia and the shooting of them
and what they're doing, and it was just horrible some

(44:47):
of the stuff. I mean I was crying through most
of the darn documentary because it was just horrible.

Speaker 3 (44:54):
Yeah. Yeah, And so it's getting the word out and
letting people know this is exactly what's going on, and change,
you know, change occurs, I mean, it is. It is
something that, you know, the attitude towards pets, and like
you said, I think we're kind of around the same age.
The attitude towards pets have changed a lot in this
country and a lot of more rescues, a lot of

(45:17):
things happening. A long way to go, but you know, hopefully,
if it's four steps forward and three steps back, it's
still one step forward. That's all that is true.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
I always have a try to have a positive out
look on it. That's for sure.

Speaker 3 (45:31):
Got it.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
So so I gotta just mention a couple of things
a couple of people saw now trying to name drop,
but these ones here that I kind of saw when
I was, you know, looking into some of the stuff
you've done. I just couldn't help myself because I thought
these were really cool.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
But I have to start out with Elmo. You worked
with Elmo.

Speaker 3 (45:54):
We worked with Elmo much more in an animated FORUMP
and not Elmo Elmo Elmo. If I had worked I'm
sorry to disappoint you, because that would be truly prcrushion
for me too. If if I had a chance to
work face to face with Elmo, I don't think I'd
be able to do it. I don't think i'd be
able to keep my cool. There's very few celebrities and

(46:14):
famous people out there that I can't like. There's just
no way I could keep my cool and be professional.
Elmo is one of them. There's just no possible way
I did it. I think the main remain objective. My
friend just posted a video with with she works with Adam.
Can't remember adams bust name of MythBusters, and it was

(46:37):
they did a they did a thing with Speaker and
Doctor Busts at Honeydew a video and I was just like, squee,
I can't believe you kept your kept your blank together.
I can't keep you one the Doctor bust A, Honey Speaker,
I would do it with yeah, yeah, just no, no

(46:58):
freaking way. I would have been able to cool. But
we were really lucky to get to do these animal
founting videos with Elmo creative song and have Elm along
with it, and you know it. Look who loved animal kids,
and so for us it was just joy to just
have a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 (47:17):
Yep, mine would have been awesome. There's two actually, first
count because I would have had to do.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
The one off yeah, and then they Monster would be
the other one.

Speaker 3 (47:34):
Oh yeah yeah. I mean if if I had a
chance to meet Miss Pigty and imitate Ropy Twelve Days
of Christmas John Timber album, oh yeah no, I would
have completely lost it.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
Oh my gosh, that's so funny, these two grown women
going crazy over Muppets.

Speaker 3 (47:55):
Joy exactly.

Speaker 2 (47:58):
I like Muppets the person some fantastic They're awesome. They
are they are and I always liked Miss Piggy.

Speaker 3 (48:06):
Oh yeah, this Piggy is confident, she's she's her own woman.

Speaker 2 (48:10):
Yeah, and she could protect herself with her high yeah.

Speaker 3 (48:14):
Yeh up there exactly.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
Oh my gosh, Miss Peggy.

Speaker 1 (48:21):
And then the other one on the other end, because
I just think I liked a lot of the stuff
that he's done. James Cameron, what was it like to
kind of work with him?

Speaker 3 (48:30):
It was it was he is brilliant and we he
he was with us on Secrets of the Whale, and
to collaborate and gain his insight was just revelatory. And
we were a little intimidated. You know, this is the
guy who's directed as one Oscars and directed like one

(48:51):
of the you know, best films ever made numerous films,
and he was down to earth, He was curious. He
we we worked in a very collaborative manner. He was
he was supportive of our team and and in awe
of the work our dps and everybody did. It was
a really wonderful experience to work with him, to collaborate

(49:19):
with him, to learn from him and just have his impact.
So it was uh and with him, you know, that
was so Sigourney Weaver narrated Secret of Wales. It was actually, yeah,
second time I had worked with Siborney. I had worked
with her when I was a discovery on Planet Garth.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
I love her. I love her voice. I love her voice.

Speaker 3 (49:43):
Yeah, and she I mean, I remember when we brought
her on board for Planet Earth. The idea was we
wanted to bring in a more mother nature kind of feel,
you know, we wanted to bring that in. So I
came time to Secret the Whales and we knew she
was an avatar too. It was like, well, yeah, they
let's bring her in again. And just is she brings

(50:05):
just depth and emotion and humanity to everything she does.
So to be able to work with both of them,
it was it's just truly truly amazing. Again. I know
I keep saying thankful, thankful, thankful, but yeah, thankful.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
Yeah, you know, just you know, just seeing James Cameron
talking on TV and different things I've watched, you know,
some of his you know, different documentaries obviously, in movies
and stuff like that, but he.

Speaker 2 (50:37):
Just always seems like when he's talking, like he would
be someone that's kind of more down to earth kind
of person. I don't know why. I just always got
that feeling from him.

Speaker 3 (50:46):
I mean, he has a team that works with him
who are some of the most brilliant people I've ever
had the chance to work with. And what I really
appreciate eight is they want to make the best work possible.
So I'm not I'm not saying that it's you know,

(51:07):
everybody has egos, everybody has, you know, pride, and and
if anybody deserves to kind of be overly prideful, it
would be James Cameron. But he wasn't and his team wasn't.
It was we want to be sure that this is
the best possible story that's told. And that was just

(51:27):
refreshing because you know, look, I'm I am just I'm
just a girl who went to art school who likes
to tell stories, and so to have that wisdom and
the insight and leadership, you know, it's yeah. Yeah. If
someone had told me that would be part of my
part of my producing and my documentary television experience, I'd
be like, yeah, not a chance.

Speaker 2 (51:48):
Right right, yeah, yeah, amazing.

Speaker 3 (51:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
So I know we thought you really liked the Penguin documentary.
Did But is that your favorite documentary or do you
have a favorite documentary?

Speaker 3 (52:04):
It's it's hard to say there's a favorite. I mean, look,
I'm not gonna tell you the one they hate, but
I love. It's hard to say which ones are which
ones are my favorite, but I probably We worked on
a pilot and I'm going to for a hugely selfish
reasons you want to fish the story. We worked on
a pilot called Who's Your Doggies, and it was about

(52:24):
taking mud and testing them with their DNA. For their DNA,
we had experts try to get what their booth mixed
breeds were and then we would reveal what they really were.
Oh oh, it was fun. And look, I'm a dog lover,
so anytime I get a chance to work a dog,
I am just over the moon. It is uh so

(52:45):
for me, that was you know I And I know
people get jazzed about bears and get jazz about this,
but I'm like dogs bringing on you know, this is
what I want to do. I love I love dogs
so much. So we put together a list of We
put out a call and we've got about twenty twenty
thirty different applications and we narrowed it down and sent

(53:08):
it to the network to decide, and one of the
dogs in there the executive goes, well, that dogs definitely,
and I said, no, there's gonna be that dog and
they're like, no, that dog's really weird and that's my dog.
And he said, no, you've got to put that dog
in because look at that dog back Docston, Yeah, look

(53:30):
at him. And I said, okay, well, I'm not going
to be in the film. I will not be able
to get owners with their dogs. They said, but I'm
going to a dog walker to pretend to be to
be with them and it's humans and they're like okay.
And then the executives said, you know, that dog's got
such a weird backstory. That dog's got to be the
deep dogs in the show. And I'm like, guys, I'm

(53:53):
the producer. You can't put my dog. That looks really inappropriate.
And they're like, no, we back it up. That dog's
really weird. But so my dog became the sleep star
of this this pilot that was not called Who's Your Dodges?
And so I have Forever, Forever for all mankind a

(54:15):
video of my dog acting as goofy as he is
and the revelation at the end that he has lab mix,
so which you can just imagine so yes, it's personal.
That's my favorite documentary.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
Lab mix, want a mix?

Speaker 3 (54:37):
Yeah, small or big? He has the body of the
lab and the legs of a yeah. Yeah. Oh he's
and he loves everybody. He he he's got the lab personality.
He loved everybody. He's just as little dootball and was

(54:57):
the inspiration behind behind the tr out the super Pilot
because it's like they have a looking at what are
you think that would be the show? You know, that's
how we try to came up with it. So just
the fact that I had him forever documented a professional
video all about him being moving, that will always be

(55:17):
my favorite time.

Speaker 2 (55:19):
That's awesome.

Speaker 3 (55:20):
That's awesome.

Speaker 1 (55:24):
So one thing I wanted to kind of ask you too,
because you know, it's not always easy, you know, when
you start out and then as you you know, progress
your way through your career and stuff like that. As
you were progressing, you know, throughout your career, what were
some of the challenges that you faced.

Speaker 3 (55:45):
I think you know, there's all the usual challenges you work, life, balance,
how to handle tough situations. One of the biggest things
in television and producing is is pop it all is.
It's rare that everything goes right, very very rare, and

(56:06):
you're constantly having the con solution for the complem and
that makes time for home and for junior people. It
took three times to learn. And the more you do it,
you know, I joke and they say, it's like golf.
You know, also one of the port where you play
you get it, the better you'll learn how to get
out of the stand trap, You'll learn how to lay up,

(56:27):
you want, how to do all those funding and that
that is a that is something that is the challenge
for for anybody who's a challenge for me starting and
as I grew more into the role, I got much
more comfortable with it. So I think that that is
a big challenge that people have to learn how to
face their eyes on how to face And I think

(56:50):
it's also that it's a very stressful deal. Television and
producing television is not for the paint of hunts. It's
very competitive. It's very long hours. I as as mentioned,
I live in Washington, my brother lives in Hawaii, and
there are times where I would call into a box

(57:11):
morning while I was driving home because they kin that
she could because sixt hour and that that wears you
down after a while, and that's that's a big challenge.
But you know, the high overwhelmed promote, you know, the exhilaration,
look what you've done, agreed and makes you forget about those.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
You know eighteen mm hmmm, Well that's good.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
I mean, I think sometimes it's it's nice if you
have a job, you know like that where the highest
you know, can either equal out or outweigh the low parts.
I mean, that was what I always said about what
I used to do, is yeah, there's a lot of
you know, low points to the job, a lot of
bad parts to the job.

Speaker 2 (57:57):
But getting.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
Or a cat adopted into the right home and knowing
it's a good fit and that and that that dog
is going to have or cat is going to have
a great life, you know, until the day they pass.

Speaker 2 (58:12):
That that's a big.

Speaker 1 (58:14):
Reward of doing so yeah, really under I understand that. Yeah,
so do you as a I'm hoping a lot of
the bias and stuff that women face in the workforces
trying to.

Speaker 2 (58:31):
Be put behind us.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
But did you, as a woman in the film industry
ever feel any type of a stigmata or stereotype or
anything that you felt other slot you should fit into.

Speaker 3 (58:45):
You know, I would be lying to say, no, you know,
there is I think that, as I mentioned, I started
as a matter and editing and many places is a
very male oriented group, and particularly field when directing the
camera camera people people are on Fielder is very male oriented.
And I don't I don't think I'm speaking out of

(59:08):
turn here. I will say there's something about men getting
on votes where they act really inappropriately. I don't know
what it is about being on a boat, but I've
just seen some really bad behavior and I've read a
little bit that I think I was part of a
generation who Peter just turned turned away or just kind

(59:29):
of been calling out immediately though I'm so I'm so
thrilled and proud of the younger generation just not tolerating it.

Speaker 1 (59:37):
You know.

Speaker 3 (59:37):
I think I think I probably tolerated it about more
that I shouldn't have tolerated it. I do know that
the one thing about is I've I've been heavy all
my life and uh being a being a fat woman
in media, there have been times where I've faced situations
where I've been the only woman over a size six

(01:00:01):
in a room, or i go to an event and
I'm the only woman over a side six. And I've
experienced some like nasty looks and comments in boardrooms and
at events and things, and you try to brush it
off and it doesn't necessarily brush away. And that has

(01:00:21):
made me just when I can dig my fields an
even more and show that I'm just as capable and
while also balancing that act of I think that women,
you know, were told to be confident, but you know,
not too confident. You know, express yourself, but don't do
it too loud, you know, if they're quietly, but don't
make sure that you do, make sure you're noticed. And

(01:00:42):
it's like I think, just waits anything to try to
follow and try to get it absolutely right. And I
think that you know, as time I've seen the the
industry change and women have learned to get have not
learned has been a loud and have decided, you know,
you know, we're good as too dumb. We're going to

(01:01:04):
make sure that we're heard because what we're saying is
just as valuable as anybody else, and we are about
and should be allowed and deserve and have earned our
right here. So it's it's it's a changing it's a
changing environment. We're going to go back to what I

(01:01:25):
said before, four steps forward, three steps back, it's still
one step forward. It's is still I'm not living as
fat as in life, but I do see forward cost
that's good.

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
That's good, and it's good that you know, you were
able to, you know, dig your heels in and kind
of overcome the stuff that you had to face through that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
So it's too bad.

Speaker 3 (01:01:45):
I was I was a softball catcher, so you know,
walking home plate to make sure nobody gets through. Yeah, no,
I'm good at that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
Yeah, there you go, there you go.

Speaker 3 (01:01:54):
Yeah, I'm good at that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
Well, you know, and that's horrible though that people you know,
act like that and think like that and stuff like that.
It's just you know, it's like get over yourself.

Speaker 3 (01:02:05):
Yeah, I you know, I don't know. It's something I
and you know, I've asked men about it and men
i've worked with. I said, what is it about men
on both that you guys just start misbehaving and there's
a pause and they're like, my god, you're right. I'm like, yeah,
I don't know what it is. You just misbehaved. And

(01:02:25):
I think if there's maybe this unconscious psychological I'm away
from home, like I you know, I'm away from mom
dad never but yeah, I I I you know, I
have no problems saying these days like come on, gud
stop it. You know you're please real, you know, and

(01:02:47):
I always love the comments and always comes up. But
you know, we don't see you as one of the girls.
We see as one of the guys. And I'm like,
but now I'm still a girl. I'm still a woman.
So yeah, maybe you need change your perspective.

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
Yeah, just saying right right, I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:03:04):
My my six foot two Italian husband from Philadelphia, ecuse
me as a woman. If you want to talk to him,
you know, there we go. Yeah, and if you're familiar
with Philadelphia, people who lost from what you're Philadelphia exactly
what I meant.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
By that, Oh my gosh, that's funny. Yeah, don't make
me get my light my guy to do my light work.

Speaker 3 (01:03:31):
Yeah, don't don't. Don't make me get him, don't make
me don't make me bring Philly out. That's just not.

Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
Oh wow, that's great.

Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
So when that kind of all being said, what advice
can you give to, you know, people that are aspiring
to work in the film industry, no matter you know
what area might be editing, producing, behind the camera or whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:04:01):
You're going to fail a lot, and it's okay, just
keep trying. I have failed much more in my business
than I've succeeded. Almost everybody I know who works in television,
who works in the arts. I was just talking to
an art artist friend of mine. We fail so frequently,

(01:04:22):
we just keep trying and then we start succeeding. So uh,
you know, when I would develop projects with Redroot Films,
if I got three out of ten pitches, and it
was probably more like I got to say, three out
of fifteen pitches screen lit, I'm a huge success. That
is success in television. So you fail all the time,

(01:04:47):
get back up, keep trying to keep working at it,
find find your path, but realize it's not going to
come easy. New But the people who understand that, who
understand that, you just got to keep calling at it.
You've still got to keep fighting, You still got to
keep pressing on and failures are just things to build on.
They'll start to build success. Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
That is true. That is true.

Speaker 1 (01:05:12):
And it's funny because you know, if you watch like
any of the like The Voice and stuff like that,
I mean, does judges sit there and tell those people
the same exact thing that you just said. For the singers,
you know, if they don't get the chairs turned or whatever, hey,
don't give up. Do you know how many times we
heard no, We kept going, kept going, and finally we
had our Yessa's you know. So, I mean, it's so
true what you're saying.

Speaker 3 (01:05:33):
Yeah, just keep I think it's My friend is an artist,
and we were talking. And if you think about artists,
think about how many canvases never see the light of day,
how many sketches never see the light of day, how
many things that it's done, they fail all the time,
and they still keep at it. And that if you
want to get into this business, keep working on your craft,

(01:05:56):
keep meeting people, find mentors, find all that and realize
you're going to fail. And it's okay just to keep
filling absolutely, keep going.

Speaker 2 (01:06:06):
Good advice, good advice.

Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
And so and right now I'm wanted to mention you
actually have a new kind of I don't know if
it's new business, new endeavor, whatever you want to.

Speaker 3 (01:06:19):
Call it, but you have.

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
Padlin creative. Can you tell us a little bit more
about that?

Speaker 3 (01:06:26):
Sure? So Padlan is the word Padlin comes from my
mother's nickname Patty p and eating and her first name
applying l I NA and so I can buy them
as an homage to my mom. And it is a
creative consultant, consultancy firm and workshop facilitation. I still consult
filmmakers and production companies and independent artists on their career path,

(01:06:52):
your idea, I help them home that shape that. I
have a couple of clients I'm working with their their
documentaries right now, making sure that everything's going the way
that they hope. But I also work with creative professionals
who seems stuck in what they're doing and give them
poor guidance and ways to kind of improve their own marketing,

(01:07:12):
their own abilities. Basically, I am a mentor to people
who are in the creative industry. But also part of
Padling Creative is an initiative I started called Fully Unapologetic
and this is a speaking series and workshop theories for
specifically for plus sized women to not apologizing for just
being who they are and start embracing everything that life

(01:07:35):
has to offer. Because so frequently women who have weight
are we apologize for walking down the street, we apologize
for taking up too much room, We shove ourselves and
try to make ourselves as small as you possibly can.
And then the reality is it's just who we are,
and there's nothing wrong as being just who we are.
And so I want people to stop apologizing. I want

(01:07:57):
women to stop apologizing not just for their existence but
also to themselves. And and hopefully, you know, with the
work I've done, I can help with few people mentor
few people to feel feel better about themself.

Speaker 2 (01:08:11):
That's awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:08:12):
You know, my son and his fiance. My son is
a bigger guy and his fance is a little heavier
woman too, but she's beautiful and she has such a
great personality and inner you know, her own inner person
and stuff. But she's always and right now they're actually

(01:08:34):
doing another diet, so you know, she's trying to diet
lose weight and stuff like that, and it's just you know,
and so yeah, I mean that's just you know, how
she sees herself because of other people and stuff like that.
So it's great that you're kind of doing that and
mentoring and helping people out.

Speaker 3 (01:08:49):
Yeah, that's my It really kind of came came to
light when, you know, when I did win the Emmy
for Secrets of the Whales, and I thought of all
the advice I've been given my whole life. You know,
don't wear this, don't do this, don't you can't do this,
you can't do this. And I said, you know what,
this is never going to happen again, which that it happened,

(01:09:10):
but that don't. Never mind about that. But the whole
thing was, I said, all my life, I've been told
I should wear black because black is women. Yeah, whoa,
I'm not going to wear black. I'm not going to
do it. And so I found this beautiful gold, sparkly
dress and I felt great and I looked great, and
that dress matched that emmy really well. So you know,

(01:09:34):
I was like, I'm tossing this out. Be who you are.
Be who you makes you feel the most confident, because,
like you said, when you express confidence enjoying yourself, everybody
sees it. You could be wearing a canvas bag and
if you're confident in radiating joy, they'll be good to

(01:09:55):
hear about me like that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:57):
Yep, very true, very true. Words.

Speaker 1 (01:10:03):
All right, Well, we're getting to there, went a little
over on on the podcast, but that's perfectly fine. We've
been having such a great conversation. But we are getting
to the end, So I thought maybe you'd like to
throw your website information out there, so maybe people could
come and take a look at Paddling Creative and a

(01:10:23):
little bit more of the stuff you're doing, and maybe
check out some of the documentaries and stuff that you've
done over the years.

Speaker 3 (01:10:30):
Absolutely, so, my website is Padlin Creative all one word
dot com. You'll find links to some of the video
projects I've done, as well as different performances I've given,
and links to blogs and e faics. You'll also have
the opportunity to register for free webinars I give, both
on female empowerment as well as more creative professionals to

(01:10:51):
how to promote yourself or how to develop an idea.
And if you want to stop by, drop me a
line and just say hi. I love talking to people,
I love doing things, and this fantastic thank you for
having me on.

Speaker 2 (01:11:02):
Yeah, I've enjoyed having you one and talking.

Speaker 1 (01:11:05):
Oh my god, it's been a great conversation and laughing
and so it was awesome talking to you and learning
more about some of the things you've done and some
of the things you've gone through and enjoyed doing all
this stuff that you've done. I think it's really awesome
work that you guys have done. And like you said,
it's not just you, it's your whole whole team. You

(01:11:25):
know of people that do all this stuff. You guys
are all awesome. And I personally I enjoyed the documentaries.
Some of them you can find on Disney Plus, National
Geographic and stuff like that. Like I said, I was
watching the Secrets of the Whales and then the Shark
Attack files. Those are on Disney Plus. So yeah, just
take a look and go check out some of Shannon's work.

(01:11:47):
I think you guys will really enjoy it.

Speaker 3 (01:11:49):
So well, thanks, thanks again, I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:11:54):
Yeah, and with Debbie and said, I'm just gonna go
ahead and I'm going to announce my next couple of
podcasters coming up. So well, you are welcome to stay
on why I do that if you'd like, But you
are also welcome to jump off, because I know you're
busy and you're probably got other things to do and
it's getting kind of late, So that's perfectly fine if.

Speaker 3 (01:12:12):
You'd like to do that, and I'm going to I'm
going to jump off.

Speaker 2 (01:12:15):
Have a great all right, you too, Shannon, and thanks
again for being on. I really appreciated it.

Speaker 3 (01:12:20):
Calculator right bye.

Speaker 2 (01:12:24):
All right, everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:12:25):
So, I hope you guys all enjoyed the podcast with Shannon,
and I hope you guys learned a little bit more
about making documentaries and in the filmmaking industry. I thought
it was really cool to have her come on and
talk about all that kind of stuff, especially being, like
she said, a plus sized woman, uh and plus sized
and woman in that industry and stuff like that, and

(01:12:47):
you know, and all the great things that she got
to do and some of the people she got to
meet and work with, which was awesome and such a
great team. If you watch any of the documentaries like
the Whales, you'll see the photographer and stuff that she
is talking about, Brian. Great work, great work. I highly
recommend going to watch him if you haven't watched him.
So and with that being said, so my next podcast

(01:13:09):
that's going to be coming on is on March twentieth,
I'm going to have Jane Sharp on with me. She
is an author and she's actually written quite a few
different books, mainly geared towards kids.

Speaker 2 (01:13:26):
And stuff with kids.

Speaker 1 (01:13:28):
Her newest book that's out though, that We're Going Where
We will be discussing that. Among the other books that
she's written is called Winston, the Cat with a mech Suit,
And I don't want to give away the story, but
maybe you can kind of guess from the title. It's
going to be about a cat and he's going to

(01:13:49):
have a mech suit, and so that's going to be
kind of cool to talk about that and how she
came up with the idea for her story about Winston
and if it's based on a real cat, and then
some of her other books and stuff. I actually bought
a couple from my granddaughter for Christmas. Kitchen help her ABC's,
which was really cool. You got ABC's and I had

(01:14:11):
to do with like, you know, stuff in the kitchen,
foods and utensils and stuff like that, different things, and
so it helps her to learn her ABC's and about
stuff in the kitchen and cooking and which she really
likes to help her mom with. She's three years old
going on well actually she's going to be four here
and another not even two weeks, so she really enjoys that.

(01:14:32):
So I got those books for her, and Jane's got
some other ones out there, but I'm not going to
go through all the lists now because we're going to
wait until she's on on the twentieth and then we'll
talk with her about those.

Speaker 2 (01:14:42):
And then the next one that's going to be on
is on April third.

Speaker 1 (01:14:48):
I am going to be talking with Zachary Lou about ants.
What a cool thing ants are? I shouldn't say thing,
What cool insects ants are? I can't wait to talk
with zach about the ants. I think it's going to
be a really good podcast. I've looked at some of
the stuff about ants. He has a YouTube channel out

(01:15:12):
and I've gone and looked at his YouTube videos, and
oh my god, I gotta tell you what. You're gonna
learn so much stuff about ants when we talk about
the ants on.

Speaker 2 (01:15:21):
April third.

Speaker 1 (01:15:23):
So hopefully you guys can come on back and listen.
Listen to these next two podcasts again March twentieth Jane
Sharp and Winston the Cat with the Mechsuit, and then
on April third, Zachary Lou and the podcast is Ants
the King of Their Hills.

Speaker 2 (01:15:40):
We'll be talking about ants.

Speaker 1 (01:15:42):
So I hope you guys will come back and listen
in those are going to be some really good ones.
And with that being said, I hope you guys all
have a safe and wonderful weekend, and I hope you
enjoy whatever you're doing this weekend, and don't forget to
come on back in a couple of weeks and listen
to the next podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:16:00):
Right, have a good night, everybody.

Speaker 3 (01:16:02):
Bye,