July 13, 2025 • 50 mins
This week, we bring you two cases out of Greenville County. The first is a tale of a family secret gone awry and an extreme solution to their problem. The second is one of the oldest Cold Cases in the history of the county.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
For over three hundred and fifty years, the state of
South Carolina has been the setting for some of the
most horrendous crimes ever committed. Some have gained global notoriety,
some have been forgotten, and others have been swept under
the rug completely. Now, two South Carolina natives and true
(00:26):
crime enthusiasts have teamed up to examine these heinous acts
in detail, giving their perspective of the evil that has
resided in the Palmetto State. You're listening to Carolina Crimes.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
And welcome back to Carolina Crimes, episode two thirty. I'm
one of your hosts, Matt Hyres, along with Daniel Myers,
and we are over the moon thrill that you joined
us here today for this episode. And it's gonna be
a little something different. We've done this a few times
in the past, but we've had a lot of suggestions
(01:04):
about both of these cases and they're both I don't
want to say short, but they are. They're shorter than
a regular episode. So what we're gonna do today, We're
gonna give you a double shot out of Greenville, South Carolina.
We're gonna combine two stories here. We're gonna do one
in the first half one in the second half, just
to give you some extra listening pleasure, I guess, and
(01:25):
we just didn't want to cut it short after one
or the other of these, so I hope you enjoy that.
But Danielle, you've been on vacation again.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Welcome back.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yes? Did I even say our names at the beginning? Yes? Yeah?
All right, all right, a little out of it too.
It's been so hot, been so fuzzy headed, and it's
a man. I hope you all are staying cool out
there like we are.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
It's brutal.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
It is bad. I mean, I've sweated through my shirt
before I get into work.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Unfortunately I had a nice pool to be beside the
last week, so that was helpful.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I'm giving you a hand gesture across though, y'all can
y'all can the lines there? But uh yeah, it's it's
been brutal. So I hope you're staying safe, staying cool,
hydrate and taking care of yourself. I hope everybody had
a happy Fourth of July. The last time we recorded
was back then. That seems like forever ago. Fourth of July.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Weekend, it does, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
But it was just what a week ago. Good, great,
wanted to give a special thank you to one of
our fans out of Greer, South Carolina, to Kelly Chris.
What she does is phenomenal. She is so talented. She
is I guess, the uh proprietor of Lola Sioux Candles
(02:55):
and there are one hundred percent vegan, sowy milk, handpoored
and small batches. The proceeds from her candles they benefit
shelter animals.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
How awesome is that?
Speaker 3 (03:08):
I love that?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
But Kelly and Lola Sue Candles, they actually sent me
and Danielle a candle apiece and they smell amazing.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Yes, I came into the studio today and you I
have a little gift for you.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yes, I was like, what is it?
Speaker 3 (03:23):
That's awesome? That was so sweet.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yes. And my wife not really a big candle fan,
but even she lit it up. Yeah, and had it
going in the house. So that that's saying something. But
thank you so much to Kelly Chris. Thank you folks
over at Lola Sue Candles. If you'd like to pay
them a visit spelled just like it sounds Lolas Sue
(03:45):
l O l A s u E Lola Sue Candles.
Dot com check her out. Yes, but thank you so
much for the gifts. We we greatly appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
I was very thoughtful, yes.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
And real quick. A few housekeeping notes like we always
do begin the shows. If you're not already following us
on social media, check us out at Carolina Crimes Podcast
over on Facebook, also over on Twitter at sc Crimes Pod.
And if you're looking to support the show and you're
listening on Apple iTunes or Apple Podcasts or Spotify, please
(04:19):
throw us a five star review and mash that purple
subscribe button. Tell us a little something you like about
the show helps the algorithm. And if you want to
support the show monetarily, you can also head over to
Carolina Crimestore dot com and check out some of that
sweet Carolina Crimes paraphernalia. Get your T shirt to stay
cool here this summer. We need it. So, as I mentioned,
(04:42):
this week's going to be a double episode, and they're
both going to be out of Greenville County, South Carolina.
That's kind of why I paired them both together. And
go ahead. We've been to Greenville several times, been in
depth with their history, fun facts, so I'm gonna just
kind of scratch the surface on that. And for those
of you not familiar with the state of South Carolina,
(05:04):
Greenville County is located in north west South Carolina and
is the most populous county in the upstate of South Carolina.
Created in seventeen eighty six, Greenville came to be due
to a population boom about that time. It was located
in the ninety sixth district. That was the name of it,
(05:25):
and it was named for General Nathaniel Green. Now, cotton
and textile production coupled with the completion of the Southern
Railway in eighteen ninety three, led Greenville to new economic heights.
But it was actually the Atlantic Coastline railroads link to
the area that allowed the textiles that were made in
(05:47):
Greenville available to the entire nation.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
And it was like the textile hub of America. They
had textile conventions there in Greenville and had to construct
hotel and infrastructure to handle all those So it really
had it going on back in those days. Now, during
World War One, the Army National Guard, they actually placed
(06:12):
a training facility in Greenville. That's a fun fact. Where
the Greenville Mall was is I think to this day
and we've talked about it several times on this show,
so we're going to bring it up again. But in
nineteen seventeen, and its headquarters are still in Greenville, South Carolina,
Duke's Mayonnaise came to be so Greenville. Unfortunately, it gained
(06:37):
the Moniker. It was once considered the murder capital of
South Carolina in the nineteen sixties and nineteen seventies, but
Greenville really began a renaissance in the nineteen nineties, cleaning up, redeveloping,
refurbishing its downtown area. The suburbs started to pop up
(06:59):
around it, and now Greenville is one of the most
desirable locations to live and visit in South Carolina. Like
what a difference it really was.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Is a beautiful city, it is.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
I have not really been to Greenville proper in years.
I mean, I think we went to the when it
was called the Bilo Center the bon Secours Arena, and
I've had some friends getting married there.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
And it's definitely grown since I've been there, so they
have a lot of things to do.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah, And I mean back in college days, late nineties
early two thousands, catted around down there a little bit
and had a good time. But today the population of
Greenville County is just over half a million people, five
hundred and twenty five thousand, and some of the more
the current attractions that everyone talks about. We talked about
(07:54):
the Swamp Rabbit Trail, it's a running biking trail around
Greenville County, and also the Reedy River Falls right there
in the downtown area. Now, some of the more famous
folks to come out of Greenville County, South Carolina. We're
gonna start off with Judith Chapman and boys, she got
a resume. Oh yes, she was an actress and she
(08:18):
was mostly on the soap opera circuit. I guess if
you if you say that her famous role was Natalie
Bannon on As the World Turns. She played Angelica Devereaux
on Days of Our Lives. She was also in General Hospital,
Ryan's Hope, One Life to Live, and The Young and
(08:40):
the Restless. Wow, she's got all.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Of those, she's got them all under her belt.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Yeah, she's seventy three years old now, but I mean,
so's she's been around on that soap opera scene for
a while. And we'll have to ask my sister if
she knows them. She might big soap opera fan, also
who eventually made his home in Greenville, South Carolina. Shoeless
Joe Jackson a famous Major League ballplayer. He was unfortunately
(09:06):
embroiled in the nineteen nineteen Black Sox scandal. He was
a phenomenal player the white Chicago White Sox in nineteen nineteen,
they were accused of throwing the World Series given into
gamblers and bribes. But Shoeless Joe Jackson actually his numbers
(09:27):
in the World Series, like his stats are actually better
than his regular season numbers. But somehow they said, yeah,
you were cheating to your band from baseball. Okay, So
that's why they call him the Black Socks instead of
White Sox. Also from Greenville County, Jesse Jackson, civil rights
activist and one time presidential candidate. And also finally, last
(09:50):
but not least, the last one we're going to cover.
There's tons of people from Greenville. Edwin McCain, Yes, yes,
the late nineteen nineties of rock ballads, you know like
uh ah, be you shoulder. I'll be like he's in
the room with us. Yeah, yeah, sounds just dead ringer,
(10:13):
sounds just like him.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
He has a TikTok account and I've seen some of
his videos.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
I remember in uh, yeah, it was around I guess
nineteen ninety nine or two thousand, John McCain was running
for president, uh in the uh in the Republican primary,
I guess in South Carolina. And I saw these people
with McCain signs. I was like, Edward Kaine's running for president.
(10:40):
I was like, possible, Yeah, okay, And then I smartened
up and read a book.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
But more than one person can have that name.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, I realized that Edwin McCain also makes great French
fries and potato good. So, uh well, our story after
we get rid of finish all this tomfoolery, our first
story this week. It starts off in an affluent section
of Greenville, right around Furman University and the Cherrydale Point area,
(11:16):
specifically row Ford Road, And I took a look dove
into some real estate stuff looking at this. They said
it was such a nice place to live, that that's
where the who's who of Greenville kind of makes their residence.
And roe Ford Road itself is dotted with just palatial homes,
(11:42):
huge yards. Some of the homes they reach close to
eight thousand square foot yeah, and on four acres of land.
So we're talking huge. One listing that I found it
was a five bedroom, seven bath in this area. We're
gonna be talking about going about two point nine million.
(12:02):
Oh okay, yeah, a couple. Yeah. Well, in nineteen eighty one,
this area that we were just discussing, it housed some
of the most wealthy of Greenville's residents, including a family
called the Witteds or White Ed's. I think it's Witteds.
(12:25):
Could never I saw both pronunciations, So we're gonna go
with a witted In this family, it was Charles Edward Witted,
forty six years old. He went by Bill and his
wife forty one year old Louise Witted, and the two
of these folks that were fortunate to live in this
(12:46):
desired area. Now Bill, he was described as a shrewd businessman.
He was an avid golfer, and Bill he enjoyed really
the finer things in life. His wife, Louise, she was
a striking woman. In her younger years. She was very
(13:07):
active in the pageant circuit, even competing for the title
of Miss South Carolina. Very tall life, beautiful lady. And
together the Witteds. They were raising their children, sixteen year
old Kathy and nine year old son Charles. Now, on
the surface, they seem to have a very charmed life.
(13:31):
As I mentioned, they enjoyed the finer things that Greenville
had to offer and buy. All outward appearances, they had
it all together well behind closed doors. It's been said
and rumored, Nikki given to be inferred that Bill Witted
he ran a tight ship. Now there's no allegations. Don't
(13:53):
read too much into it. There's no cruelty or abuse
anything like that.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Very strict.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
He's had a very high standard, very organized. High standards
would be good. That's a good way to put it.
And you know, he focused on outward appearances of his
family somewhat. You know, we want to we want.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
To your reflection of me.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yes, man, you're you're knocking out of the park today, buddy. Yeah.
And I've even put you know, he was he seemed
like a f A and f O kind of dad.
You know, you you mess around, you're gonna find out.
And that actually may have transferred into his business life,
(14:41):
which probably resulted in his success more than likely. Yea.
So it was a shock when on Wednesday night, September ninth,
that paramedics were called to the Witted home on roe
Ford Road. They were responding to a call that Charles
(15:02):
Edward Bill Witted was dead. Oh, the paramedics found forty
six year old Bill in his bed, and it wasn't
really hard to determine the cause of death. They're in
a pool of blood. It was very apparent that Bill
Witted had been shot. His wife, Louise, she stated that
(15:28):
she and the children had not been home, but she
found her husband in that state and there was no
indication at the house of any forced entry or anything missing.
So this murder is what they were treating it as.
Looked very personal. There were questions that investigators had. Of course,
(15:51):
the police arrived on the scene the Greenville County Sheriff's office,
and you know, questions were sirling swirling. Was this a busy,
this deal that could have gone bad? Was Bill involved
in some illegal activity? Is that what contributed to their wealth?
Was he involved with some shady characters or was this
(16:14):
something even more nefarious that they had no clue about.
Now an investigation into the murder of Bill Witted. It commenced,
and they kept thinking, you know, he was shot in
his bed. I started thinking that over over and over too.
I mean, that's awful. You got ambushed when you were
(16:36):
the most vulnerable. But I started thinking. I was like,
you know, if you're gonna I want to live a
long life. Don't get me wrong here, but if I'm relaxed,
kicking it asleep, I mean, it might not be a
bad way to go. Well, I mean, you don't if
you don't.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Suffer, you don't suffer, You don't see it happen, You
have no idea what even happened.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Yes, And so, like any murder investigation that we've talked
about here on the show, started with his life or
his wife, Louise, and she was able to give very
limited information. She just said, yeah, this is his shot.
That or dead and he was in the bed. I
(17:19):
called the paramedics, police. They thought his daughter Kathy, and
his son they were of no consequence, you know, Okay,
and investigators at this point they said, okay, we're going
to have to expand our circle a little bit, start
looking into a few more people that may have had
contact with his family, and maybe try to paint a
(17:41):
picture of what's going on. Yeah, try to pick up
on something, some kind of abnormality that may lead us
to some kind of clue. Well, in that next level
of people they wanted to talk to. In question, they
realized that sixteen year old Cathy Witted had a boyfriend.
(18:04):
He was a fellow traveler's rest high school student, a
sixteen year old Christopher Anderson. Well expecting to you know,
real facts about the murder, but merely wanting to try
to create a snapshot of the Witted family dynamic. Greenville
County Sheriff's office they wanted to speak with him as well. Well.
(18:29):
When Christopher got interviewed, that's when the floodgates started. Ope. Oh,
he revealed the police to start off his story a
family secret that not even Bill Witted knew about. Oh.
(18:49):
So when we get back from this short break, we're
going to get into exactly what Christopher Anderson told Greenville
County Sheriff's officers. Folks will be right back, hi, friends,
(19:10):
Matt Hires here. One of my favorite parts of bringing
you Carolina Crimes each week is spotlighting the many wonderful
towns and communities within our great state. And today I'm
proud to encourage you all to check out one of
my personal favorites. Rather on a road trip or a
weekend getaway, discover Mullins, once a vibrant depot town and
(19:31):
the former tobacco capital of South Carolina, Mullins is a
hidden treasure in the PD region. Explore our offerings by
savoring a cup of coffee at our delightful coffee shop,
enjoying lunch at any of our charming restaurants, visiting old
Brick Square, and shopping at our quaint retail stores, which
include an antique market located in a repurposed tobacco warehouse.
(19:56):
Your visit would not be complete without a stop at
the South Carolina Tobacco Music situated in the historic train
depot in downtown Mullins, South Carolina. Here you can explore
various exhibits such as models of tobacco plants at each
growth stage, a blacksmith shop, a log tobacco barn filled
with cure tobacco, a farmhouse kitchen showcasing vintage equipment, and
(20:19):
a photo gallery highlighting contemporary tobacco practices. The Mullins Room
honors our town's origins and its swift growth driven by
the railroad and the tobacco industry. Additionally, in late June
twenty twenty five, the Reverend Daniel Simmons museum will open
its doors to the public. Within the Tobacco Museum, Reverend
(20:40):
Simmons was one of the victims of the Mother Emmanuel
nine tragedy, and he spent his childhood in Mullins and
worked in its tobacco warehouses. Thanks to a generous loan
from his daughter Rose, we will exhibit many of his
personal belongings, including his beloved Bible. The documentary of his life,
One Last Breath, will be continueduously streamed in the museum.
(21:02):
Rather it's for a road trip or a weekend getaway,
Mullins is a perfect place to visit and a place
to call home. Visit Mullins, South Carolina, and welcome back
(21:38):
to Carolina Crimes, Episode two point thirty out of Greenville,
South Carolina, and this mysterious death of Bill witted very
luxurious neighborhood the right side of the track some people
might call it in Greenville here in nineteen one and
(22:01):
investigators got to sniffing around, and they thought it would
be best to speak with Bill's daughter, Kathy's boyfriend, high
school student sixteen years old, and he was the one
that even there was a an article that said it
didn't take investigators long to figure out exactly what happened. Oh, okay,
(22:22):
he's the one that opened up the floodgates and blew
the lid off of exactly what happened at that Roe
Ford rode home. Okay, Well, sixteen year old Christopher Anderson,
he had been dating dating Bill Witt's daughter Kathy for
a while, and investigators they sat him down and it
(22:44):
seemed like the young man actually had some good character
and he definitely had a conscience because he started telling all.
He laid it out. Christopher. He had admitted to the
police that a few weeks earlier he had found out
(23:06):
and Kathy had learned that she was pregnant with his child.
Both being sixteen. You know, that's heavy. That's a heavy
burden to bear for thirty six year old and like
any teen girl in that situation, Kathy, she was scared, conflicted, worried,
(23:30):
and the added pressure of being this affluent family and
wanting to keep up a good image. That also added,
you know, that titan vice on her a little bit.
She was like, Oh my gosh, you know, what are
my parents.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Going to say make people in the community. They'll feel
like they're going to look at them. Maybe judge. The
parents can't believe you know, this is the kind of
daughter you've raised.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yeah. Yeah, but that's the way people are, and more
people were like that. In nineteen eighty one, Kathy witted.
She actually told her boyfriend Chris, she said, my father
is literally going to kill me and probably you, Yeah,
(24:25):
when he learns that this happened. So it was just
she and Chris that knew at first, and with no
one besides her sixteen year old boyfriend to get advice from,
Kathy broke down and did tell her mother, Louise. Well.
(24:46):
The two they fretted over the situation. They tried to
come up with solutions as to how to handle this,
and possibly well more than likely motivated by Greed not
really being happy in her marriage herself, Louise she devised
(25:11):
a plan. According to Christopher Anderson, the plan was to
kill Kathy's dad Bill to get him out of the
picture completely.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Yeah, that's one way for him not to find out, I.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Guess so, but murder so. Louise witted. She spoke to
Christopher and Kathy and she said, Hey, here's how this
is going to go. Chris. If you carry this out
for us, take Bill out of the picture. I'm going
(25:50):
to give you permission to marry Kathy. I'm going to
give you money and purchase a condo for both of
you in Florida, condominium for you live in. But you
have to carry out this, you know, this simple task
for me of killing another human being. So Chris and
(26:12):
Kathy they did something really, really stupid. This might be
what convinced Chris to go ahead and spill the beans.
But they let some friends at school know. Of course, Hey,
you know Kathy's in trouble her dad. Oh gosh, it'll
be hell if he finds out. So this is what
(26:34):
we're gonna do. So they discussed plans with their friends
and tried to get some feedback of hey, let's let's
figure out how to do this. Some of the ideas
that we're thrown around were to, this is something silly,
just out of the movies. Maybe we can tamper with
the brakes on his car, make it look like a
(26:55):
car accident. Someone had the idea even of putting a
venomous snake in his bed, so he'd hop into bed
and hop on top of the snake and it body
him killing. But the final plan went like this, According
to Anderson. He snuck onto the Witted property that night,
(27:18):
the evening of September nineteen eighty one. He hid in
what was called their bathhouse that wasn't attached to the home.
I want to say maybe it was something like a poolhouse.
Sounds like a changing area, something like that. But he
hidden there and he waited for two and a half
hours before Louise came out and let him into the home. Now.
(27:45):
Louise then provided Chris with one of Bill's hunting rifles
loaded with AMMO. Louise and Kathy, Bill's daughter, they both
urged him to go down the hall, to go into
the bed room and to shoot their husband and father
while he was in there asleep. Now, Chris, he started
(28:07):
creeping down the hall, but he turned around. He said, y'all,
I can't do this, Okay. I would rather face his
wrath about getting his sixteen year old daughter pregnant than
to kill a human being. Are y' all crazy? Like?
Speaker 3 (28:24):
There's gotta be another way we can handle that.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Yeah, Maybe tell him the truth maybe, and then I.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Can go out of town for a few weeks so
that he won't be as mad when I come back.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Or taking an ass whipping or something. I mean, but
he stopped and he said. That's when Kathy turned to
her mom and she said, see, I told you he
would chicken out.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
So she's like fully on board with this.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Yeah, Louise and Kathy they're there like full full throttle,
let's go. So Louise then ushered Chris to the bedroom
and turned on the hall light so he could better
see and get a better shot at Bill, and that's
when he shot him. Well after this story, Louise Witted,
(29:19):
she was arrested on charges of murder, conspiracy, and accessory
After the fact, Christopher Anderson was charged as a juvenile
and sent the Family Court for murdering conspiracy. Catherine Kathy Witted.
She was also charged as a juvenile with conspiracy. Now
(29:44):
Anderson he pled guilty. They gave him an indeterminate sentence
and put him in Department of Juvenile Justice, and it
looks like he was released two years later in August
of nineteen ninety three. All right, I'm sorry, nineteen eighty three.
Kathy Witted. She was placed in youth services as well,
(30:08):
and she was released a couple months earlier in June
of nineteen eighty three, and she was told to leave
Greenville County indefinitely. Oh, I've never heard get out of town.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
We're banishing you.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
You're banishing you from Greenville County.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
And you'll be shunned if you come back.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Yes, I was like whoa, and Louise witted the mother,
seemingly the mastermind the finance year. She went to trial
in February of nineteen eighty two. She was found guilty
and sentenced to life, with the possibility of parole after
(30:49):
twenty years. It did I did see where she tried
to appeal in nineteen eighty three, the accessory charge accessory
after the fact, there was a lot of studies and
discussion about this, okay, and that's where I was able
to glean that she said she wasn't present at the
time of his murder. It was the presence thing that
(31:11):
was trying to play into the accessory and they were
trying to examine that, and that's what her appeal was
going to be based off of. But it looks like
her appeal was denied and she passed away in two
thousand and seven. It did not say if she got
paroled or not, but I believe she did die in prison.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
So what happened with Kathy.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
She left never resurfaced that I can see. Maybe she
learned from her mistake. She was a confused I wonder
if she I mean, she was, she was in a
tough spot, but that doesn't mean you have to murder somebody.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Well, and also, Louise is an adult, you know, you're
you're you know better. And then on top of that,
you're your child and her boyfriend, these two sixteen year
olds involved in something that they shouldn't be involved in.
She took their situation and was like, how can I
(32:11):
use this to help myself because I'm not happy. So
it's like, it's just disgusting to get your kids involved
in stuff like that. And then you think about their
other their son.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Yeah. Yeah, and the jury, they said it was made
up of seven women and five men, so obviously the
motherly instincts may have played a role. And they're like, hey,
you know, you're supposed to protect your kids, not put
them in a bad spot. And I mean Louise stood
to gain a lot, yes with Bill out of the picture,
(32:43):
I mean enough to buy her future son in law
a Florida condominium.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
So yeah, that's a wild tale from Greenville, South Carolina,
and we've actually got another one. Like I said, come
up after this short break, and this one is going
to be nostalgic. It's gonna take you back. It's one
(33:11):
of the coldest, coldest cases in Greenville County history and
it's just over fifty years old. Just celebrated the fiftieth anniversary,
and folks will be right back after this quick word
from our sponsors, and welcome back to Carolina Crimes, episode
(33:50):
two thirty, this double episode out of Greenville, South Carolina.
And before the break, Danielle, we mentioned we're gonna go
back fifty years and fifty years in my mind, I'm
thinking like the nineteen fifties, but it's actually nineteen seventy
five and uh hurting a lot of hearts. Getting getting
(34:10):
kind of old here, long in the tooth, but this
is one of Greenville's oldest, still open cold cases. And
to start the episode, we're going to talk about something
that was prevalent back then fifties, sixties, into the seventies,
maybe some eighties, but like supper clubs, and by that
(34:39):
I know they're very prevalent in like Wisconsin on the
Lakes and everything like that. But we're there were places
where you go get a fine meal, you dressed sort
of nice, you know, probably not a coat and time
maybe a sport coat, collared shirt. Live bands, live big
band music in these places. Fine foods like I mentioned
(35:04):
State lobsters, like some art deco kind of decorations like
the chandeliers, shag carpeting. I'm thinking white linen tablecloths.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Of the restaurant scene from Goodfellows.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Kind of close. Yeah, a little fancier. And what was
that the Bamboo Lounge back then that they went to.
I thought more of you talking about movies like the
Blues Brothers, like Murphing, the Magic Tones, when they were
going around getting the band back together, you know, playing
lounge music. But this place they actually I went to
(35:48):
one of these that was still open and it was
called the south Land Restaurant in Walterboro. And when I
when I was a little little kid, of course, we
never went there. We couldn't afford that kind of stuf.
But I took my dad there for Father's Day one time,
and it was just like walking into a time machine.
You're just like, what in the world is going on?
(36:10):
Like they had a standalone phone booth like inside, and
the chandeliers were like this gilded kind of Some people
would say it's tacky or clitchki. I don't know if
that's a clitch key or I know, you know what.
I'm right there, but just from a different time, from
(36:31):
a different time.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
You have to like look around to see make sure
you're still in the right decade, right.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
But there were a couple of these around Greenville and
in their heydays in the sixties and mid late seventies.
The one in Greenville that we're talking about in particular
today is called ye Old Fireplace.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
It does sound fancy and.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Ye Old Fireplace. It was a brick building, one story.
I'm gonna put it up. It looked kind of like
a motel almost and had the faded brick. It had
like wood shake shingles, kind of like to give it
(37:17):
an old world, medieval or English look. And it was
located on South pleasant Burg Drive now the Old Fireplace
that opened in nineteen sixty. They specialized in aged charboiled steaks.
Nineteen sixty two they added main lobster seafood you get
(37:39):
like a flounder dinner. They had a main dining room
that seated one hundred people and five private dining rooms
and also a bar. And this became the place where
if you were gonna try to impress business people from
out of town, this is where you took them. Also,
(38:00):
so it hosted like civic clubs where they had their lunches,
like the Rotary Kawanas, different civic organizations like that. This
is where you went for their nice meal. And I'm
sure they probably did some catering and put out, you know,
for these lunches like chicken and squeaky green beans and
(38:20):
you you know what I'm talking about beans. Now, some
of the entertainment that came through the place was absolutely
world class. They had Jim Naghbors come in character as
Gomer Pyle and sing, the Glenn Miller orchestra, Tommy Dorsey
(38:42):
and his band, and eventually what became their house band
was the Charlie Spivak or Spevak Band. They were an orchestra.
Charlie Spevac, world renowned trumpeter, played with some of the
world's greats, and he landed here in Greenville. He and
(39:03):
his orchestra. You know, they had the brass, the saxophones
as probably a drummer, and they put on a show
here a base Yeah. I like how you did the
stand up base motion.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
It's usually what it is. I was an orchestra son, Okay.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Okay, but yeah, world class entertainment, great food, right here
in the heart of Greenville. We sound like we're making
a commercial for this place in nineteen seventy five, but
I don't need to still go there. The owners of
Yule Fireplace were Charlie Grubbs and Cecil Bagwool, and what
(39:40):
they wanted was to create a showplace of the South Well.
By nineteen seventy five, Yule Fireplace had become one of
the most luxurious places to dine, not only in Greenville
but in the state of.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
South Carolina, quite a reputation.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
And Charlie Spevac and his orchestra they would play the
King Charles Room, one of the private dining rooms. They
were kind of close to the bar well. Late Wednesday night,
May twenty eighth, nineteen seventy five, it bled into the
(40:16):
early morning hours of Thursday, May twenty ninth. The restaurant
was closing up. You've been involved in this industry previous,
and you know, I know it was late. Some of
the staff still milling around. They were cleaning up, they
were counting the till. You have to remember, keep in
(40:39):
mind the time period we're talking about, nobody had a
debit card. Nobody, you know, probably pretty rarely were you
putting dinner on a credit card. I don't think they
really had even that many back then, So you're talking
about maybe a few checks were written, but primarily the
(41:00):
currency used e old fireplace was cash. So everybody was
cleaning up, they were counting the till, counting their tips,
some of the servers maybe relaxing with a few drinks
at the bar there, and the band they had packing
up their stuff, and all of a sudden, back in
(41:21):
the kitchen, two younger men burst through the back door
with bandanas covering their faces. The first intruder he was
described as having a brown floppy hat which was kind
of pulled down over the top of his face. He
had a red and white bandana tied around the lower
(41:42):
part of his face, kind of like a train robber.
He had a tan button up shirt on that was untucked, jeans,
and tennis shoes, and was carrying an automatic pistol. The
second intruder, he was described as about five foot nine,
one hundred and sixty pounds with curly dark hair. A
Caucasian man. He had a blue and white bandanna around
(42:05):
his lower face, a light brown floppy hat, a yellow
and black t shirt on, and gloves with the fingers
cut out. Oh well. They ordered the cleaning crew and
the kitchen staff to get down on the floor. One
of the men pointed a gun at head chef Edgar Taylor,
(42:25):
and then pistol whipped him with it to forced him
to the ground. And they entered the restaurant. They encountered
a lot of waitresses there in the area, and they
were forced to the ground and to crawl into the restroom,
and then one of the robbers went into the bandroom.
There in the band room he encountered Buddy Jet and
(42:48):
seventy year old saxophonist Charlie Russo. And Charlie Russo had
been with a Charlie spevac vand for years I think
they played together for thirty five years wow, And so
he was well known. Charlie with Spevak was also well
known around the Greenville community. I mean he was the entertainment.
(43:09):
He was, like I said, a world renowned trumpet. So
they were honored to have him there in their midst well.
When the robber entered the room, Jet was pushed to
the floor and Charlie Russo, the saxophonist, put his hands
up like hey whoa kind of questioning what's going on here?
(43:30):
And immediately that robber shot the beloved musician in the chest.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
Oh my gosh, like not even being aggressive, no, like
what trying to be like, I'm not gonna fight you.
I'm just as confused as everyone else. I don't know
what's going on.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
Awful, yes, And that's when Buddy Jet he heard that
robber that shot Charlie Russo, he said, Ralph. He went
for it. So one of them's name or he went
by Ralph, the other robber, Ralph, I'm assuming. He ordered
(44:09):
Richard Eske, who was a manager there, to open the safe.
He hesitated, he tried to stall as much as he could,
but he went ahead and opened it for the robber
and probably fearing for his life, and he gave them
access to all the cash that the restaurant had taken
in and not deposited. One of the owners, Charlie Grubbs,
(44:33):
he was there present, and he was forced at gunpoint
to crawl into the bathroom as well, and the two men,
after garnering up all the cash and laying for seventy
year old Charlie Russo, leaving him there for dead, they
escaped by stealing Grubs's Cadillac. A few hours later, the
(44:55):
cadillac it was found at a nearby Howard Johnson's and
the men were seen leaving the cadillac and fleeing in
a blue pickup with a tanned camper shell. Local gun
shops were checked for the blue steel automatic pistol that
(45:16):
one of the men were garnishing, to see if any
records matched, if they could try to make sense of
anything they could not. Local motels were checked. People were
looking for the blue truck with tan camper shell. Nothing
came up and the case went cold. No leads whatsoever.
(45:40):
They got a few tips coming in in days after that,
but Charlie Russo, the man that passed, he was cherished
by all his friends. Musicians from around the world chimed
in the morning. Is Loss obviously supremely talented and just
a nice individual.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
Senseless?
Speaker 2 (46:02):
Yes, so, if anyone has any information regarding the robbery
and murder that went down at ye old fireplace in
Greenville in May, of nineteen seventy five. You're probably old
as dirt by now, but still you're any facts or
(46:25):
anything that you can remember from that night, or if
you've heard anything about that, please contact Greenville County Sheriff's
Office with any info. So a wild time, indeed, And
they had pictures of the band, and I'm gonna put
some of those up and they dressed in like the
powder blue tuxedos, you know that kind of about Yeah,
(46:47):
nineteen seventy I mean that was that was cool. I
would have loved to go on to dinner somewhere like that.
But yeah, Charlie Russo was. Everybody seemed to love.
Speaker 3 (46:57):
Him, and there weren't any like similar instances that that
that happened that they could think maybe this was a
team going around doing this or one and done.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
Now, there are a few rabbit holes that I started
kind of going down, and people were hypothesizing, well, this
person got let out of jail, they were paroled on
this date. Maybe it was them it and nothing real
factual came up. But there are a lot of different theories.
Maybe this had something to do with some organized crime.
(47:34):
Maybe it was were people on a robbery spree. Yeah,
so yeah, nothing real concrete. I mean you can you
can point fingers all day long and starting and I
was like, maybe.
Speaker 3 (47:51):
But if you don't have anything solid, it's not going
to go anywhere, right right.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
So a tragic story, but one that I'd always read about.
It always happened upon it, and I was like, well,
you know, we've got a shorter one from Greenville. We'll
kind of combine this one in there.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
I think anybody will be upset.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
No, no, and uh yeah, beyond the be on the lookout.
It's it's wild because my first vehicle, I bought it
from my grandfather. It was a nineteen seventy one blue
Ford pickup and he had a camper shell that went
with it that was tan.
Speaker 3 (48:30):
And did you I remember find out where your grandfather.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
Was on May twenty, nineteen seventy five. Probably not in Greenville, Yeah,
and I don't. I don't think he would have robbed
and killed anybody. But you know, that's one of those
rabbit holes you can go down.
Speaker 3 (48:50):
I don't investigate any family members.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
Yeah that's crazy, but yeah, well, we appreciate you listening
to this double episode from Greenville, South Carolina. We hope
you enjoyed it, and maybe it'll jar somebody's memory. Maybe
we'll talk to some old family members that lived in
Greenville that used to go to ye old fireplace, maybe
they'll remember something. So that and then the wild story
(49:14):
of Louise Witted and we'll put some pictures up from
that on our social media. If you're not already following
us on Facebook, check us out at Carolina Crimes Podcast.
We'll put some pictures up of both these crimes and
just take you back in the day, yeah, on some
of these. And also if you're listening on Apple iTunes,
(49:34):
Apple Podcasts, or Spotify, throw us a five star review
and let us know a little something that you liked
about the show. We do greatly appreciate that. Also, check
us out over at Carolina Crimestore dot com and get
you any shirts, t shirts, paraphernalia, tumblers, keep your drink
ice cold on the beach, and we would certainly appreciate that. So,
(49:55):
until next time, thank you for listening to Carolina Crimes.
For over three hundred and fifty years, the state of
South Carolina has been the setting for some of the
most horrendous crimes ever committed. Some have gained global notoriety,
some have been forgotten, and others have been swept under
the rug completely. Now, two South Carolina natives and true
(00:26):
crime enthusiasts have teamed up to examine these heinous acts
in detail, giving their perspective of the evil that has
resided in the Palmetto State. You're listening to Carolina Crimes.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
And welcome back to Carolina Crimes, episode two thirty. I'm
one of your hosts, Matt Hyres, along with Daniel Myers,
and we are over the moon thrill that you joined
us here today for this episode. And it's gonna be
a little something different. We've done this a few times
in the past, but we've had a lot of suggestions
(01:04):
about both of these cases and they're both I don't
want to say short, but they are. They're shorter than
a regular episode. So what we're gonna do today, We're
gonna give you a double shot out of Greenville, South Carolina.
We're gonna combine two stories here. We're gonna do one
in the first half one in the second half, just
to give you some extra listening pleasure, I guess, and
(01:25):
we just didn't want to cut it short after one
or the other of these, so I hope you enjoy that.
But Danielle, you've been on vacation again.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Welcome back.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yes? Did I even say our names at the beginning? Yes? Yeah?
All right, all right, a little out of it too.
It's been so hot, been so fuzzy headed, and it's
a man. I hope you all are staying cool out
there like we are.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
It's brutal.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
It is bad. I mean, I've sweated through my shirt
before I get into work.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Unfortunately I had a nice pool to be beside the
last week, so that was helpful.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I'm giving you a hand gesture across though, y'all can
y'all can the lines there? But uh yeah, it's it's
been brutal. So I hope you're staying safe, staying cool,
hydrate and taking care of yourself. I hope everybody had
a happy Fourth of July. The last time we recorded
was back then. That seems like forever ago. Fourth of July.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Weekend, it does, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
But it was just what a week ago. Good, great,
wanted to give a special thank you to one of
our fans out of Greer, South Carolina, to Kelly Chris.
What she does is phenomenal. She is so talented. She
is I guess, the uh proprietor of Lola Sioux Candles
(02:55):
and there are one hundred percent vegan, sowy milk, handpoored
and small batches. The proceeds from her candles they benefit
shelter animals.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
How awesome is that?
Speaker 3 (03:08):
I love that?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
But Kelly and Lola Sue Candles, they actually sent me
and Danielle a candle apiece and they smell amazing.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Yes, I came into the studio today and you I
have a little gift for you.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yes, I was like, what is it?
Speaker 3 (03:23):
That's awesome? That was so sweet.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yes. And my wife not really a big candle fan,
but even she lit it up. Yeah, and had it
going in the house. So that that's saying something. But
thank you so much to Kelly Chris. Thank you folks
over at Lola Sue Candles. If you'd like to pay
them a visit spelled just like it sounds Lolas Sue
(03:45):
l O l A s u E Lola Sue Candles.
Dot com check her out. Yes, but thank you so
much for the gifts. We we greatly appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
I was very thoughtful, yes.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
And real quick. A few housekeeping notes like we always
do begin the shows. If you're not already following us
on social media, check us out at Carolina Crimes Podcast
over on Facebook, also over on Twitter at sc Crimes Pod.
And if you're looking to support the show and you're
listening on Apple iTunes or Apple Podcasts or Spotify, please
(04:19):
throw us a five star review and mash that purple
subscribe button. Tell us a little something you like about
the show helps the algorithm. And if you want to
support the show monetarily, you can also head over to
Carolina Crimestore dot com and check out some of that
sweet Carolina Crimes paraphernalia. Get your T shirt to stay
cool here this summer. We need it. So, as I mentioned,
(04:42):
this week's going to be a double episode, and they're
both going to be out of Greenville County, South Carolina.
That's kind of why I paired them both together. And
go ahead. We've been to Greenville several times, been in
depth with their history, fun facts, so I'm gonna just
kind of scratch the surface on that. And for those
of you not familiar with the state of South Carolina,
(05:04):
Greenville County is located in north west South Carolina and
is the most populous county in the upstate of South Carolina.
Created in seventeen eighty six, Greenville came to be due
to a population boom about that time. It was located
in the ninety sixth district. That was the name of it,
(05:25):
and it was named for General Nathaniel Green. Now, cotton
and textile production coupled with the completion of the Southern
Railway in eighteen ninety three, led Greenville to new economic heights.
But it was actually the Atlantic Coastline railroads link to
the area that allowed the textiles that were made in
(05:47):
Greenville available to the entire nation.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
And it was like the textile hub of America. They
had textile conventions there in Greenville and had to construct
hotel and infrastructure to handle all those So it really
had it going on back in those days. Now, during
World War One, the Army National Guard, they actually placed
(06:12):
a training facility in Greenville. That's a fun fact. Where
the Greenville Mall was is I think to this day
and we've talked about it several times on this show,
so we're going to bring it up again. But in
nineteen seventeen, and its headquarters are still in Greenville, South Carolina,
Duke's Mayonnaise came to be so Greenville. Unfortunately, it gained
(06:37):
the Moniker. It was once considered the murder capital of
South Carolina in the nineteen sixties and nineteen seventies, but
Greenville really began a renaissance in the nineteen nineties, cleaning up, redeveloping,
refurbishing its downtown area. The suburbs started to pop up
(06:59):
around it, and now Greenville is one of the most
desirable locations to live and visit in South Carolina. Like
what a difference it really was.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Is a beautiful city, it is.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
I have not really been to Greenville proper in years.
I mean, I think we went to the when it
was called the Bilo Center the bon Secours Arena, and
I've had some friends getting married there.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
And it's definitely grown since I've been there, so they
have a lot of things to do.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah, And I mean back in college days, late nineties
early two thousands, catted around down there a little bit
and had a good time. But today the population of
Greenville County is just over half a million people, five
hundred and twenty five thousand, and some of the more
the current attractions that everyone talks about. We talked about
(07:54):
the Swamp Rabbit Trail, it's a running biking trail around
Greenville County, and also the Reedy River Falls right there
in the downtown area. Now, some of the more famous
folks to come out of Greenville County, South Carolina. We're
gonna start off with Judith Chapman and boys, she got
a resume. Oh yes, she was an actress and she
(08:18):
was mostly on the soap opera circuit. I guess if
you if you say that her famous role was Natalie
Bannon on As the World Turns. She played Angelica Devereaux
on Days of Our Lives. She was also in General Hospital,
Ryan's Hope, One Life to Live, and The Young and
(08:40):
the Restless. Wow, she's got all.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Of those, she's got them all under her belt.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Yeah, she's seventy three years old now, but I mean,
so's she's been around on that soap opera scene for
a while. And we'll have to ask my sister if
she knows them. She might big soap opera fan, also
who eventually made his home in Greenville, South Carolina. Shoeless
Joe Jackson a famous Major League ballplayer. He was unfortunately
(09:06):
embroiled in the nineteen nineteen Black Sox scandal. He was
a phenomenal player the white Chicago White Sox in nineteen nineteen,
they were accused of throwing the World Series given into
gamblers and bribes. But Shoeless Joe Jackson actually his numbers
(09:27):
in the World Series, like his stats are actually better
than his regular season numbers. But somehow they said, yeah,
you were cheating to your band from baseball. Okay, So
that's why they call him the Black Socks instead of
White Sox. Also from Greenville County, Jesse Jackson, civil rights
activist and one time presidential candidate. And also finally, last
(09:50):
but not least, the last one we're going to cover.
There's tons of people from Greenville. Edwin McCain, Yes, yes,
the late nineteen nineties of rock ballads, you know like
uh ah, be you shoulder. I'll be like he's in
the room with us. Yeah, yeah, sounds just dead ringer,
(10:13):
sounds just like him.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
He has a TikTok account and I've seen some of
his videos.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
I remember in uh, yeah, it was around I guess
nineteen ninety nine or two thousand, John McCain was running
for president, uh in the uh in the Republican primary,
I guess in South Carolina. And I saw these people
with McCain signs. I was like, Edward Kaine's running for president.
(10:40):
I was like, possible, Yeah, okay, And then I smartened
up and read a book.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
But more than one person can have that name.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, I realized that Edwin McCain also makes great French
fries and potato good. So, uh well, our story after
we get rid of finish all this tomfoolery, our first
story this week. It starts off in an affluent section
of Greenville, right around Furman University and the Cherrydale Point area,
(11:16):
specifically row Ford Road, And I took a look dove
into some real estate stuff looking at this. They said
it was such a nice place to live, that that's
where the who's who of Greenville kind of makes their residence.
And roe Ford Road itself is dotted with just palatial homes,
(11:42):
huge yards. Some of the homes they reach close to
eight thousand square foot yeah, and on four acres of land.
So we're talking huge. One listing that I found it
was a five bedroom, seven bath in this area. We're
gonna be talking about going about two point nine million.
(12:02):
Oh okay, yeah, a couple. Yeah. Well, in nineteen eighty one,
this area that we were just discussing, it housed some
of the most wealthy of Greenville's residents, including a family
called the Witteds or White Ed's. I think it's Witteds.
(12:25):
Could never I saw both pronunciations, So we're gonna go
with a witted In this family, it was Charles Edward Witted,
forty six years old. He went by Bill and his
wife forty one year old Louise Witted, and the two
of these folks that were fortunate to live in this
(12:46):
desired area. Now Bill, he was described as a shrewd businessman.
He was an avid golfer, and Bill he enjoyed really
the finer things in life. His wife, Louise, she was
a striking woman. In her younger years. She was very
(13:07):
active in the pageant circuit, even competing for the title
of Miss South Carolina. Very tall life, beautiful lady. And
together the Witteds. They were raising their children, sixteen year
old Kathy and nine year old son Charles. Now, on
the surface, they seem to have a very charmed life.
(13:31):
As I mentioned, they enjoyed the finer things that Greenville
had to offer and buy. All outward appearances, they had
it all together well behind closed doors. It's been said
and rumored, Nikki given to be inferred that Bill Witted
he ran a tight ship. Now there's no allegations. Don't
(13:53):
read too much into it. There's no cruelty or abuse
anything like that.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Very strict.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
He's had a very high standard, very organized. High standards
would be good. That's a good way to put it.
And you know, he focused on outward appearances of his
family somewhat. You know, we want to we want.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
To your reflection of me.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yes, man, you're you're knocking out of the park today, buddy. Yeah.
And I've even put you know, he was he seemed
like a f A and f O kind of dad.
You know, you you mess around, you're gonna find out.
And that actually may have transferred into his business life,
(14:41):
which probably resulted in his success more than likely. Yea.
So it was a shock when on Wednesday night, September ninth,
that paramedics were called to the Witted home on roe
Ford Road. They were responding to a call that Charles
(15:02):
Edward Bill Witted was dead. Oh, the paramedics found forty
six year old Bill in his bed, and it wasn't
really hard to determine the cause of death. They're in
a pool of blood. It was very apparent that Bill
Witted had been shot. His wife, Louise, she stated that
(15:28):
she and the children had not been home, but she
found her husband in that state and there was no
indication at the house of any forced entry or anything missing.
So this murder is what they were treating it as.
Looked very personal. There were questions that investigators had. Of course,
(15:51):
the police arrived on the scene the Greenville County Sheriff's office,
and you know, questions were sirling swirling. Was this a busy,
this deal that could have gone bad? Was Bill involved
in some illegal activity? Is that what contributed to their wealth?
Was he involved with some shady characters or was this
(16:14):
something even more nefarious that they had no clue about.
Now an investigation into the murder of Bill Witted. It commenced,
and they kept thinking, you know, he was shot in
his bed. I started thinking that over over and over too.
I mean, that's awful. You got ambushed when you were
(16:36):
the most vulnerable. But I started thinking. I was like,
you know, if you're gonna I want to live a
long life. Don't get me wrong here, but if I'm relaxed,
kicking it asleep, I mean, it might not be a
bad way to go. Well, I mean, you don't if
you don't.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Suffer, you don't suffer, You don't see it happen, You
have no idea what even happened.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Yes, And so, like any murder investigation that we've talked
about here on the show, started with his life or
his wife, Louise, and she was able to give very
limited information. She just said, yeah, this is his shot.
That or dead and he was in the bed. I
(17:19):
called the paramedics, police. They thought his daughter Kathy, and
his son they were of no consequence, you know, Okay,
and investigators at this point they said, okay, we're going
to have to expand our circle a little bit, start
looking into a few more people that may have had
contact with his family, and maybe try to paint a
(17:41):
picture of what's going on. Yeah, try to pick up
on something, some kind of abnormality that may lead us
to some kind of clue. Well, in that next level
of people they wanted to talk to. In question, they
realized that sixteen year old Cathy Witted had a boyfriend.
(18:04):
He was a fellow traveler's rest high school student, a
sixteen year old Christopher Anderson. Well expecting to you know,
real facts about the murder, but merely wanting to try
to create a snapshot of the Witted family dynamic. Greenville
County Sheriff's office they wanted to speak with him as well. Well.
(18:29):
When Christopher got interviewed, that's when the floodgates started. Ope. Oh,
he revealed the police to start off his story a
family secret that not even Bill Witted knew about. Oh.
(18:49):
So when we get back from this short break, we're
going to get into exactly what Christopher Anderson told Greenville
County Sheriff's officers. Folks will be right back, hi, friends,
(19:10):
Matt Hires here. One of my favorite parts of bringing
you Carolina Crimes each week is spotlighting the many wonderful
towns and communities within our great state. And today I'm
proud to encourage you all to check out one of
my personal favorites. Rather on a road trip or a
weekend getaway, discover Mullins, once a vibrant depot town and
(19:31):
the former tobacco capital of South Carolina, Mullins is a
hidden treasure in the PD region. Explore our offerings by
savoring a cup of coffee at our delightful coffee shop,
enjoying lunch at any of our charming restaurants, visiting old
Brick Square, and shopping at our quaint retail stores, which
include an antique market located in a repurposed tobacco warehouse.
(19:56):
Your visit would not be complete without a stop at
the South Carolina Tobacco Music situated in the historic train
depot in downtown Mullins, South Carolina. Here you can explore
various exhibits such as models of tobacco plants at each
growth stage, a blacksmith shop, a log tobacco barn filled
with cure tobacco, a farmhouse kitchen showcasing vintage equipment, and
(20:19):
a photo gallery highlighting contemporary tobacco practices. The Mullins Room
honors our town's origins and its swift growth driven by
the railroad and the tobacco industry. Additionally, in late June
twenty twenty five, the Reverend Daniel Simmons museum will open
its doors to the public. Within the Tobacco Museum, Reverend
(20:40):
Simmons was one of the victims of the Mother Emmanuel
nine tragedy, and he spent his childhood in Mullins and
worked in its tobacco warehouses. Thanks to a generous loan
from his daughter Rose, we will exhibit many of his
personal belongings, including his beloved Bible. The documentary of his life,
One Last Breath, will be continueduously streamed in the museum.
(21:02):
Rather it's for a road trip or a weekend getaway,
Mullins is a perfect place to visit and a place
to call home. Visit Mullins, South Carolina, and welcome back
(21:38):
to Carolina Crimes, Episode two point thirty out of Greenville,
South Carolina, and this mysterious death of Bill witted very
luxurious neighborhood the right side of the track some people
might call it in Greenville here in nineteen one and
(22:01):
investigators got to sniffing around, and they thought it would
be best to speak with Bill's daughter, Kathy's boyfriend, high
school student sixteen years old, and he was the one
that even there was a an article that said it
didn't take investigators long to figure out exactly what happened. Oh, okay,
(22:22):
he's the one that opened up the floodgates and blew
the lid off of exactly what happened at that Roe
Ford rode home. Okay, Well, sixteen year old Christopher Anderson,
he had been dating dating Bill Witt's daughter Kathy for
a while, and investigators they sat him down and it
(22:44):
seemed like the young man actually had some good character
and he definitely had a conscience because he started telling all.
He laid it out. Christopher. He had admitted to the
police that a few weeks earlier he had found out
(23:06):
and Kathy had learned that she was pregnant with his child.
Both being sixteen. You know, that's heavy. That's a heavy
burden to bear for thirty six year old and like
any teen girl in that situation, Kathy, she was scared, conflicted, worried,
(23:30):
and the added pressure of being this affluent family and
wanting to keep up a good image. That also added,
you know, that titan vice on her a little bit.
She was like, Oh my gosh, you know, what are
my parents.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Going to say make people in the community. They'll feel
like they're going to look at them. Maybe judge. The
parents can't believe you know, this is the kind of
daughter you've raised.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yeah. Yeah, but that's the way people are, and more
people were like that. In nineteen eighty one, Kathy witted.
She actually told her boyfriend Chris, she said, my father
is literally going to kill me and probably you, Yeah,
(24:25):
when he learns that this happened. So it was just
she and Chris that knew at first, and with no
one besides her sixteen year old boyfriend to get advice from,
Kathy broke down and did tell her mother, Louise. Well.
(24:46):
The two they fretted over the situation. They tried to
come up with solutions as to how to handle this,
and possibly well more than likely motivated by Greed not
really being happy in her marriage herself, Louise she devised
(25:11):
a plan. According to Christopher Anderson, the plan was to
kill Kathy's dad Bill to get him out of the
picture completely.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Yeah, that's one way for him not to find out, I.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Guess so, but murder so. Louise witted. She spoke to
Christopher and Kathy and she said, Hey, here's how this
is going to go. Chris. If you carry this out
for us, take Bill out of the picture. I'm going
(25:50):
to give you permission to marry Kathy. I'm going to
give you money and purchase a condo for both of
you in Florida, condominium for you live in. But you
have to carry out this, you know, this simple task
for me of killing another human being. So Chris and
(26:12):
Kathy they did something really, really stupid. This might be
what convinced Chris to go ahead and spill the beans.
But they let some friends at school know. Of course, Hey,
you know Kathy's in trouble her dad. Oh gosh, it'll
be hell if he finds out. So this is what
(26:34):
we're gonna do. So they discussed plans with their friends
and tried to get some feedback of hey, let's let's
figure out how to do this. Some of the ideas
that we're thrown around were to, this is something silly,
just out of the movies. Maybe we can tamper with
the brakes on his car, make it look like a
(26:55):
car accident. Someone had the idea even of putting a
venomous snake in his bed, so he'd hop into bed
and hop on top of the snake and it body
him killing. But the final plan went like this, According
to Anderson. He snuck onto the Witted property that night,
(27:18):
the evening of September nineteen eighty one. He hid in
what was called their bathhouse that wasn't attached to the home.
I want to say maybe it was something like a poolhouse.
Sounds like a changing area, something like that. But he
hidden there and he waited for two and a half
hours before Louise came out and let him into the home. Now.
(27:45):
Louise then provided Chris with one of Bill's hunting rifles
loaded with AMMO. Louise and Kathy, Bill's daughter, they both
urged him to go down the hall, to go into
the bed room and to shoot their husband and father
while he was in there asleep. Now, Chris, he started
(28:07):
creeping down the hall, but he turned around. He said, y'all,
I can't do this, Okay. I would rather face his
wrath about getting his sixteen year old daughter pregnant than
to kill a human being. Are y' all crazy? Like?
Speaker 3 (28:24):
There's gotta be another way we can handle that.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Yeah, Maybe tell him the truth maybe, and then I.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Can go out of town for a few weeks so
that he won't be as mad when I come back.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Or taking an ass whipping or something. I mean, but
he stopped and he said. That's when Kathy turned to
her mom and she said, see, I told you he
would chicken out.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
So she's like fully on board with this.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Yeah, Louise and Kathy they're there like full full throttle,
let's go. So Louise then ushered Chris to the bedroom
and turned on the hall light so he could better
see and get a better shot at Bill, and that's
when he shot him. Well after this story, Louise Witted,
(29:19):
she was arrested on charges of murder, conspiracy, and accessory
After the fact, Christopher Anderson was charged as a juvenile
and sent the Family Court for murdering conspiracy. Catherine Kathy Witted.
She was also charged as a juvenile with conspiracy. Now
(29:44):
Anderson he pled guilty. They gave him an indeterminate sentence
and put him in Department of Juvenile Justice, and it
looks like he was released two years later in August
of nineteen ninety three. All right, I'm sorry, nineteen eighty three.
Kathy Witted. She was placed in youth services as well,
(30:08):
and she was released a couple months earlier in June
of nineteen eighty three, and she was told to leave
Greenville County indefinitely. Oh, I've never heard get out of town.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
We're banishing you.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
You're banishing you from Greenville County.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
And you'll be shunned if you come back.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Yes, I was like whoa, and Louise witted the mother,
seemingly the mastermind the finance year. She went to trial
in February of nineteen eighty two. She was found guilty
and sentenced to life, with the possibility of parole after
(30:49):
twenty years. It did I did see where she tried
to appeal in nineteen eighty three, the accessory charge accessory
after the fact, there was a lot of studies and
discussion about this, okay, and that's where I was able
to glean that she said she wasn't present at the
time of his murder. It was the presence thing that
(31:11):
was trying to play into the accessory and they were
trying to examine that, and that's what her appeal was
going to be based off of. But it looks like
her appeal was denied and she passed away in two
thousand and seven. It did not say if she got
paroled or not, but I believe she did die in prison.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
So what happened with Kathy.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
She left never resurfaced that I can see. Maybe she
learned from her mistake. She was a confused I wonder
if she I mean, she was, she was in a
tough spot, but that doesn't mean you have to murder somebody.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Well, and also, Louise is an adult, you know, you're
you're you know better. And then on top of that,
you're your child and her boyfriend, these two sixteen year
olds involved in something that they shouldn't be involved in.
She took their situation and was like, how can I
(32:11):
use this to help myself because I'm not happy. So
it's like, it's just disgusting to get your kids involved
in stuff like that. And then you think about their
other their son.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Yeah. Yeah, and the jury, they said it was made
up of seven women and five men, so obviously the
motherly instincts may have played a role. And they're like, hey,
you know, you're supposed to protect your kids, not put
them in a bad spot. And I mean Louise stood
to gain a lot, yes with Bill out of the picture,
(32:43):
I mean enough to buy her future son in law
a Florida condominium.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
So yeah, that's a wild tale from Greenville, South Carolina,
and we've actually got another one. Like I said, come
up after this short break, and this one is going
to be nostalgic. It's gonna take you back. It's one
(33:11):
of the coldest, coldest cases in Greenville County history and
it's just over fifty years old. Just celebrated the fiftieth anniversary,
and folks will be right back after this quick word
from our sponsors, and welcome back to Carolina Crimes, episode
(33:50):
two thirty, this double episode out of Greenville, South Carolina.
And before the break, Danielle, we mentioned we're gonna go
back fifty years and fifty years in my mind, I'm
thinking like the nineteen fifties, but it's actually nineteen seventy
five and uh hurting a lot of hearts. Getting getting
(34:10):
kind of old here, long in the tooth, but this
is one of Greenville's oldest, still open cold cases. And
to start the episode, we're going to talk about something
that was prevalent back then fifties, sixties, into the seventies,
maybe some eighties, but like supper clubs, and by that
(34:39):
I know they're very prevalent in like Wisconsin on the
Lakes and everything like that. But we're there were places
where you go get a fine meal, you dressed sort
of nice, you know, probably not a coat and time
maybe a sport coat, collared shirt. Live bands, live big
band music in these places. Fine foods like I mentioned
(35:04):
State lobsters, like some art deco kind of decorations like
the chandeliers, shag carpeting. I'm thinking white linen tablecloths.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Of the restaurant scene from Goodfellows.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Kind of close. Yeah, a little fancier. And what was
that the Bamboo Lounge back then that they went to.
I thought more of you talking about movies like the
Blues Brothers, like Murphing, the Magic Tones, when they were
going around getting the band back together, you know, playing
lounge music. But this place they actually I went to
(35:48):
one of these that was still open and it was
called the south Land Restaurant in Walterboro. And when I
when I was a little little kid, of course, we
never went there. We couldn't afford that kind of stuf.
But I took my dad there for Father's Day one time,
and it was just like walking into a time machine.
You're just like, what in the world is going on?
(36:10):
Like they had a standalone phone booth like inside, and
the chandeliers were like this gilded kind of Some people
would say it's tacky or clitchki. I don't know if
that's a clitch key or I know, you know what.
I'm right there, but just from a different time, from
(36:31):
a different time.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
You have to like look around to see make sure
you're still in the right decade, right.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
But there were a couple of these around Greenville and
in their heydays in the sixties and mid late seventies.
The one in Greenville that we're talking about in particular
today is called ye Old Fireplace.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
It does sound fancy and.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Ye Old Fireplace. It was a brick building, one story.
I'm gonna put it up. It looked kind of like
a motel almost and had the faded brick. It had
like wood shake shingles, kind of like to give it
(37:17):
an old world, medieval or English look. And it was
located on South pleasant Burg Drive now the Old Fireplace
that opened in nineteen sixty. They specialized in aged charboiled steaks.
Nineteen sixty two they added main lobster seafood you get
(37:39):
like a flounder dinner. They had a main dining room
that seated one hundred people and five private dining rooms
and also a bar. And this became the place where
if you were gonna try to impress business people from
out of town, this is where you took them. Also,
(38:00):
so it hosted like civic clubs where they had their lunches,
like the Rotary Kawanas, different civic organizations like that. This
is where you went for their nice meal. And I'm
sure they probably did some catering and put out, you know,
for these lunches like chicken and squeaky green beans and
(38:20):
you you know what I'm talking about beans. Now, some
of the entertainment that came through the place was absolutely
world class. They had Jim Naghbors come in character as
Gomer Pyle and sing, the Glenn Miller orchestra, Tommy Dorsey
(38:42):
and his band, and eventually what became their house band
was the Charlie Spivak or Spevak Band. They were an orchestra.
Charlie Spevac, world renowned trumpeter, played with some of the
world's greats, and he landed here in Greenville. He and
(39:03):
his orchestra. You know, they had the brass, the saxophones
as probably a drummer, and they put on a show
here a base Yeah. I like how you did the
stand up base motion.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
It's usually what it is. I was an orchestra son, Okay.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Okay, but yeah, world class entertainment, great food, right here
in the heart of Greenville. We sound like we're making
a commercial for this place in nineteen seventy five, but
I don't need to still go there. The owners of
Yule Fireplace were Charlie Grubbs and Cecil Bagwool, and what
(39:40):
they wanted was to create a showplace of the South Well.
By nineteen seventy five, Yule Fireplace had become one of
the most luxurious places to dine, not only in Greenville
but in the state of.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
South Carolina, quite a reputation.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
And Charlie Spevac and his orchestra they would play the
King Charles Room, one of the private dining rooms. They
were kind of close to the bar well. Late Wednesday night,
May twenty eighth, nineteen seventy five, it bled into the
(40:16):
early morning hours of Thursday, May twenty ninth. The restaurant
was closing up. You've been involved in this industry previous,
and you know, I know it was late. Some of
the staff still milling around. They were cleaning up, they
were counting the till. You have to remember, keep in
(40:39):
mind the time period we're talking about, nobody had a
debit card. Nobody, you know, probably pretty rarely were you
putting dinner on a credit card. I don't think they
really had even that many back then, So you're talking
about maybe a few checks were written, but primarily the
(41:00):
currency used e old fireplace was cash. So everybody was
cleaning up, they were counting the till, counting their tips,
some of the servers maybe relaxing with a few drinks
at the bar there, and the band they had packing
up their stuff, and all of a sudden, back in
(41:21):
the kitchen, two younger men burst through the back door
with bandanas covering their faces. The first intruder he was
described as having a brown floppy hat which was kind
of pulled down over the top of his face. He
had a red and white bandana tied around the lower
(41:42):
part of his face, kind of like a train robber.
He had a tan button up shirt on that was untucked, jeans,
and tennis shoes, and was carrying an automatic pistol. The
second intruder, he was described as about five foot nine,
one hundred and sixty pounds with curly dark hair. A
Caucasian man. He had a blue and white bandanna around
(42:05):
his lower face, a light brown floppy hat, a yellow
and black t shirt on, and gloves with the fingers
cut out. Oh well. They ordered the cleaning crew and
the kitchen staff to get down on the floor. One
of the men pointed a gun at head chef Edgar Taylor,
(42:25):
and then pistol whipped him with it to forced him
to the ground. And they entered the restaurant. They encountered
a lot of waitresses there in the area, and they
were forced to the ground and to crawl into the restroom,
and then one of the robbers went into the bandroom.
There in the band room he encountered Buddy Jet and
(42:48):
seventy year old saxophonist Charlie Russo. And Charlie Russo had
been with a Charlie spevac vand for years I think
they played together for thirty five years wow, And so
he was well known. Charlie with Spevak was also well
known around the Greenville community. I mean he was the entertainment.
(43:09):
He was, like I said, a world renowned trumpet. So
they were honored to have him there in their midst well.
When the robber entered the room, Jet was pushed to
the floor and Charlie Russo, the saxophonist, put his hands
up like hey whoa kind of questioning what's going on here?
(43:30):
And immediately that robber shot the beloved musician in the chest.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
Oh my gosh, like not even being aggressive, no, like
what trying to be like, I'm not gonna fight you.
I'm just as confused as everyone else. I don't know
what's going on.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
Awful, yes, And that's when Buddy Jet he heard that
robber that shot Charlie Russo, he said, Ralph. He went
for it. So one of them's name or he went
by Ralph, the other robber, Ralph, I'm assuming. He ordered
(44:09):
Richard Eske, who was a manager there, to open the safe.
He hesitated, he tried to stall as much as he could,
but he went ahead and opened it for the robber
and probably fearing for his life, and he gave them
access to all the cash that the restaurant had taken
in and not deposited. One of the owners, Charlie Grubbs,
(44:33):
he was there present, and he was forced at gunpoint
to crawl into the bathroom as well, and the two men,
after garnering up all the cash and laying for seventy
year old Charlie Russo, leaving him there for dead, they
escaped by stealing Grubs's Cadillac. A few hours later, the
(44:55):
cadillac it was found at a nearby Howard Johnson's and
the men were seen leaving the cadillac and fleeing in
a blue pickup with a tanned camper shell. Local gun
shops were checked for the blue steel automatic pistol that
(45:16):
one of the men were garnishing, to see if any
records matched, if they could try to make sense of
anything they could not. Local motels were checked. People were
looking for the blue truck with tan camper shell. Nothing
came up and the case went cold. No leads whatsoever.
(45:40):
They got a few tips coming in in days after that,
but Charlie Russo, the man that passed, he was cherished
by all his friends. Musicians from around the world chimed
in the morning. Is Loss obviously supremely talented and just
a nice individual.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
Senseless?
Speaker 2 (46:02):
Yes, so, if anyone has any information regarding the robbery
and murder that went down at ye old fireplace in
Greenville in May, of nineteen seventy five. You're probably old
as dirt by now, but still you're any facts or
(46:25):
anything that you can remember from that night, or if
you've heard anything about that, please contact Greenville County Sheriff's
Office with any info. So a wild time, indeed, And
they had pictures of the band, and I'm gonna put
some of those up and they dressed in like the
powder blue tuxedos, you know that kind of about Yeah,
(46:47):
nineteen seventy I mean that was that was cool. I
would have loved to go on to dinner somewhere like that.
But yeah, Charlie Russo was. Everybody seemed to love.
Speaker 3 (46:57):
Him, and there weren't any like similar instances that that
that happened that they could think maybe this was a
team going around doing this or one and done.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
Now, there are a few rabbit holes that I started
kind of going down, and people were hypothesizing, well, this
person got let out of jail, they were paroled on
this date. Maybe it was them it and nothing real
factual came up. But there are a lot of different theories.
Maybe this had something to do with some organized crime.
(47:34):
Maybe it was were people on a robbery spree. Yeah,
so yeah, nothing real concrete. I mean you can you
can point fingers all day long and starting and I
was like, maybe.
Speaker 3 (47:51):
But if you don't have anything solid, it's not going
to go anywhere, right right.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
So a tragic story, but one that I'd always read about.
It always happened upon it, and I was like, well,
you know, we've got a shorter one from Greenville. We'll
kind of combine this one in there.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
I think anybody will be upset.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
No, no, and uh yeah, beyond the be on the lookout.
It's it's wild because my first vehicle, I bought it
from my grandfather. It was a nineteen seventy one blue
Ford pickup and he had a camper shell that went
with it that was tan.
Speaker 3 (48:30):
And did you I remember find out where your grandfather.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
Was on May twenty, nineteen seventy five. Probably not in Greenville, Yeah,
and I don't. I don't think he would have robbed
and killed anybody. But you know, that's one of those
rabbit holes you can go down.
Speaker 3 (48:50):
I don't investigate any family members.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
Yeah that's crazy, but yeah, well, we appreciate you listening
to this double episode from Greenville, South Carolina. We hope
you enjoyed it, and maybe it'll jar somebody's memory. Maybe
we'll talk to some old family members that lived in
Greenville that used to go to ye old fireplace, maybe
they'll remember something. So that and then the wild story
(49:14):
of Louise Witted and we'll put some pictures up from
that on our social media. If you're not already following
us on Facebook, check us out at Carolina Crimes Podcast.
We'll put some pictures up of both these crimes and
just take you back in the day, yeah, on some
of these. And also if you're listening on Apple iTunes,
(49:34):
Apple Podcasts, or Spotify, throw us a five star review
and let us know a little something that you liked
about the show. We do greatly appreciate that. Also, check
us out over at Carolina Crimestore dot com and get
you any shirts, t shirts, paraphernalia, tumblers, keep your drink
ice cold on the beach, and we would certainly appreciate that. So,
(49:55):
until next time, thank you for listening to Carolina Crimes.
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