July 20, 2025 • 42 mins
In 2003, a relationship between two young Greenville County residents quickly went South and deteriorated. After constant pleas from the young woman to leave her alone, her jilted ex boyfriend could not comprehend her requests nor wanted to.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
For over three hundred and fifty years, the state of
South Carolina has been the setting for some of the
most horrendous crimes ever committed. Some have gained global notoriety,
some have been forgotten, and others have been swept under
the rug completely. Now, two South Carolina natives and true
(00:26):
crime enthusiasts have teamed up to examine these heinous acts
in detail, giving their perspective of the evil that has
resided in the Palmetto State. You're listening to Carolina Crimes.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
And welcome back to Carolina Crimes episode two thirty one.
I'm one of your hosts, Matt Hyres, along.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
With Danielle Myers, and we're over the.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Moon real that you joined us here this week. Thank
you so much to everybody that reached out after last
week's episode had a Greenville, South Carolina. We had that
double shot too little kind of one a full episode
and then a little minisode on the end, just to
give our listeners something to enjoy for a full fifty minutes.
(01:13):
But we appreciate your feedback from there. Two incredible stories,
one open ended cold case and one just an unbelievable
story of violence within the family and just incredible for sure,
and that was a listener's suggestion. We appreciate those. Best
way to get those to us is through Facebook Messenger,
(01:36):
and if you're not already following us on Facebook, check
us out at Carolina Crimes Podcast. Also over on Twitter
at sc Crimes pod. Also, if you're listening on Apple
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(01:59):
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some sweet Carolina Crimes paraphernalia for your back, head on
(02:19):
over to Carolina Crimes store dot com and check out
the merch over there. We would greatly appreciate that. So
this is not a rerun, but we are going to
be coming from Greenville one more time. Greenville. We're wearing
you out. We gotta get We got to get back
around the state next week.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Sure, it's weird, like we've talked about this in the past,
but you and I, you'll, I think you asked if
we have we covered this case from Greenville, and I'm like, well,
just that you know mine's already mine's from Greenville too.
It's just weird how we sometimes, Yeah, du wrong one
from the same area.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Yeah, we follow each other around that we were both
in the PD a couple of weeks ago. I was like, dude, okay,
but South Carolina not that large of a state when
you boil it down and we're all here together in
the Palmetta States. So enjoy this one from Greenville, South Carolina.
But just following up, of course, we're not gonna give
you a full history at Greenville again. But Greenville for
(03:16):
those of you if it's your first time listening and
you're not familiar with South Carolina. It's up in the
northwest corner of the state, bordered to the east by
Spartanburg and then over to the west by Pickens Oconee.
Also portion of Lawns County borders Greenville as well, so
(03:39):
Greenville of course. The county founded in seventeen eighty six,
named for General Nathaniel Green, one of the textile capitals
of the world in its heyday, and we were celebrating
kind of its renaissance of downtown last week and some
of the wonderful attractions they have for people to come
and visit. And it has become kind of a vacation
(04:02):
or weekend getaway destination for a lot of people in
the foothills up in North Carolina. They come down to
Greenville and I've done that.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
They have a lot of great stuff to do for
a weekend getaway, and people are.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Saying it's kind of becoming almost like an Ashville type.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Yeah, totally. I've got a good bit of breweries there.
They've got that suspension bridge that they've built you can
go over the river. Yeah, a little weird because it moves.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
But and I kind of take that personally, the whole
brewery boom thing. I mean, as soon as I quit
drinking about fifteen years ago. Now all of a sudden
they're coming up with breweries and all kinds of cool
stuff I never got the chance to partake in, but
god willing, I won't. Yeah, so yeah, we'll cool off
(04:51):
on that. So, Danielle, you're going to be bringing us
this episode from Greenville, and wana't you get us started,
all right.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
I did find a good bit of stuff on here,
but there was only I think one podcast that I
saw that had covered this, and that was our girl,
Erica Kelly at Southern Fried True Crime. She does a
great job, she does, and I like listening to her,
and she did a really good job. She got more
in depth in the trial and appeals and things. I
(05:21):
just kind of touched on it a little bit, but
we'll go ahead and jump right into this.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Yeah, get the meat and potatoes.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
A crime. So.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Miranda Lee Williams was born on June seventh, nineteen seventy nine,
to Gary and Patricia in Piedmont, South Carolina, and she
was the youngest of five siblings, so the baby. She
went by Mandy and was known for her cheerful disposition.
(05:49):
By two thousand and two, Mandy was twenty four and
she had a two year old daughter, who Patricia said
Mandy took everywhere with her because she wanted her daughter
to experience everything very.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Well.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
I mean, I'm thinking, if you know, she went to
the store, took her to events, you know, not bar
hopping or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Oh well, good for you.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Manby Mandy had been working at the Bilow on Woodruff Road.
I don't think there's very many leves. Dude.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
I love store. I miss Bilow. And that's for those
of you not familiar. That was a kind of like
wind Dixie or Haris Teeter Publics, but it was I mean,
it wasn't as fancy as most, but you could. It
was always clean and you knew where everything was. And
that's when it was a.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Grocery store I grew up going to.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yeah, And I mean that's one of my biggest I
don't consider myself to have anxiety, but to go into
a grocery store and not know where everything's at. I
hate reading the signs. I mean, yeah, I get it,
I'll find the stuff, but I like to know exactly
where everything's gonna be. Like I'm, i'm, I'm. I'm a
(07:05):
little miffed at Old Food Line. They've renovated all the
stores and they put bread on an aisle that's not
wide enough, and you know, moved like the prepared meats,
like the like the boloney and stuff like that, just
shuffled everything around.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Man, you know why they do that.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
They may pissed me off.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
That's exactly they're like in their.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Meeting, conspiracy, sabotage.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
We're gonna we're gonna get Matt higher.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah. Now you're gonna spend two hours in the grocery.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
They do it so you have to go multiple places,
so you pick up those little items you didn't need.
Set you up.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Yeah, bol but I'm sorry, Mandy. Mandy worked at.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Bayla Yes on Woodruff Road in Greenville, and she had
been there for a while when she met a man
named Charles Christopher Williams. Yes, they do have the same
last name. That's just a coincidence in case there's any confusion, okay.
And he was four years younger than her at twenty
years old, and he also worked there. Charles was what
(08:12):
would be considered the polar opposite of Mandy. He came
from a home where his parents were described as negligent alcoholics,
with their being that his mom even drank while she
was pregnant with him. And his parents divorced and this
affected Charles and his sister greatly and caused him to
struggle in school, and he dropped out his sophomore year
(08:34):
of high school and started going to a local technical school,
which he also quit. But these differences didn't seem to
bother Mandy, and the two begin dating, with Mandy being
described as his first real girlfriend at twenty years old.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
That's about I mean, you probably have some high school
girlfriend yeah, boyfriends whatever, and and twenty's about where you're like, Okay,
I need to start thinning the herd here and maybe
look for a potential long term mate.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Yes, I was twenty one when I met my husband.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Eh I was thirty two. I finally calmed down when
I met my wife.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
So yes, it happens. You know, some people need a
little more time.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yeah, I was. I was being extra selected. That's why
I did tell myself picky.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Charles became quickly infatuated with Mandy, even branding an M
on his arm. Not a tattoo, oh I know, so
just being clear about that. He branded it. I don't
know how, but hot coat hanger who knows. The two
had an on and off again relationship, but after a
trip that they took to the beach in May of
(09:48):
two thousand and three, they got into a fight where
Charles punched a hole in the wall, and afterwards Mandy
ended things for good because she decided she didn't need
to have that kind of thing around her. Daughter.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yeah, and guys, I know we get upset, but punching
a hole in the wall. I've never been that mad.
Nor I don't think I've ever been that drunk that
I destroyed some property or something like that. But guys,
(10:20):
calm down, man, punching a walling's that's.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Really what's it gonna flag?
Speaker 2 (10:26):
And babyish come.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
On you well, And I'd put that that was good
for her because a lot of women in similar situations
will stay over the wants and needs of their children.
And she was like, no, I don't need this kind
of person around my child, and she ended things for good.
Charles did not handle this very well, swallowing fifty pills.
I don't know what they were, But then he drove
(10:49):
himself to the hospital where he told them that he
tried to kill himself. He was medically cleared and released
without any psychological evaluation, which I think would would almost
be like a requirement if somebody even said they were
attempting to kill themselves, you'd have someone from sych to
come and talk to you. But they didn't. Well after
(11:11):
his failed suicide attempt, I would, if you can call it,
that could have been a cry for help. Maybe trying
to gain sympathy from her.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Yeah maybe maybe.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Charles refused to give up on the idea that him
and Mandy were officially over, so on July sixteenth of
two thousand and three, he showed up to the grocery
store wanting to speak with her, but she had her
manager ask him to leave.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Okay? Was he still working there?
Speaker 3 (11:37):
No? Okay, and he did, or so she thought. Instead,
he had waited four hours in the parking lot for
her to get off her shift. She walked out to
her car and got in the driver's seat when all
of a sudden, Charles runs up to the car, throws
open the passenger door and jumps in and trying to
(12:00):
talk to her, and she's begging him to get out
of her car, leave me alone.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
So she managed to get out of the car and
ran towards the grocery store so she could get her manager,
but Charles jumped out as the same time she did so,
she made a U turn and ran back to her vehicle,
jumped in and locked the doors, and as she was
trying to roll up the window, Charles reached through and
punched her multiple times in the face until she was unconscious.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Good gosh.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
By then people had seen this happen and the police
were called. Mandy was taken to Greenville Memorial Hospital, where
she was treated for several broken bones in her face
that had been shattered. Mandy later told investigators that she
heard him say I'm going to kill you before she
lost consciousness, and a witness said that they saw Charles
hit her in the face with his fists five times,
(12:53):
look around, and then hit her two more times. Ma'am
so very violent attack, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Through your own car window.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
And Charles was arrested and charged with the sultan battery
with intent to kill and was given a forty five
thousand dollars bond, and he made bail and was out
the next day. I do have in parentheses. Don't get
me started on domestic violence laws in South Carolina, but
we'll get to that later.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
And depending I'm just I am not condoning one bit
what he did. But if you look at that bond,
depending on what he had prior, I mean, that's a
that's a hefty bond. That was like a well, he
said assault and battery intent to kill. That's a I
(13:48):
guess that's more than a sult and battery of a
high and aggravated nature. Some ab hands yea stuff, But
forty five thousand dollars, especially if that was his first offense,
that's uh, that's that's significant. Somebody had to come up
with forty five hundred dollars to get him out cash
mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Well, after Mandy's attack, she went to the Greenville County
Magistrate's office to get a restraining order. But and this
is a little weird, the clerk that was working at
the front office, who was I guess responsible for people
coming to you know, she whatever they needed, especially restraining orders,
kind of made an offhanded comment to her about how
restraining orders are used. This is useless because if somebody
(14:32):
wants to break through it, they will.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
I mean, she's technically right, not wrong, but.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
You wouldn't think that you would still want to talk
somebody out of that. Yeah, but that is what she
ended up doing because.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Odd piece of information for employee of the court to give.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Well, and Mandy ended up leaving without filing. Because Mandy
didn't live with Charles and she wasn't married or related
to him, she wasn't able to get an order of
protection against him. So she's kind of hitting brick walls
left and right. Here she's trying to keep him away
from her. Bilo did get a no trespassing order against him,
(15:11):
so he was not allowed on the property and if
he showed up, he would be arrested.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Yeah, none of that Walters produce for you, boy.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
So things seem to be calming down, and Mandy was
moving on with her life, but her piece would be
short lived. And we're going to take a quick break
and get into the events.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
All right, Well, I don't like the way this is headed,
but we'll be right back after this quick word from
our sponsors, Hi friends, Matt Hire's here. One of my
favorite parts of bringing you Carolina Crimes each week is
(15:55):
spotlighting the many wonderful towns and communities within our great state.
And today I'm proud to encourage you all to check
out one of my personal favorites. Rather on a road
trip or a weekend getaway, discover Mullins. Once a vibrant
depot town and the former tobacco capital of South Carolina,
Mullins is a hidden treasure in the PD region. Explore
(16:18):
our offerings by savoring a cup of coffee at our
delightful Coffee shop enjoying lunch at any of our charming restaurants,
visiting old Brick Square, and shopping at our quaint retail stores,
which include an antique market located in a repurposed tobacco warehouse.
Your visit would not be complete without a stop at
the South Carolina Tobacco Museum, situated in the historic train
(16:42):
depot in downtown Mullens, South Carolina. Here you can explore
various exhibits such as models of tobacco plants at each
growth stage, a blacksmith shop, a log tobacco barn filled
with cure tobacco, a farmhouse kitchen showcasing vintage equipment, and
a photo gaps highlighting contemporary tobacco practices. The Mullins Room
(17:04):
honors our town's origins and its swift growth driven by
the railroad and the tobacco industry. Additionally, in late June
twenty twenty five, the Reverend Daniel Simmons Museum will open
its doors to the public. Within the Tobacco Museum, Reverend
Simmons was one of the victims of the Mother Emmanuel
nine tragedy, and he spent his childhood in Mullins and
(17:26):
worked in its Tobacco warehouses. Thanks to a generous loan
from his daughter Rose, we will exhibit many of his
personal belongings, including his beloved Bible. The documentary of his life,
One Last Breath, will be continuously streamed in the museum.
Rather it's for a road trip or a weekend getaway,
Mullins is a perfect place to visit and a place
(17:48):
to call home. Visit Mullins, South Carolina, and welcome back
(18:14):
to Carolina Crimes, episode two thirty one out of Greenville County,
South Carolina, and this story about Miranda Mandy Williams, who
got kind of tied up with the wrong guy. She
tried to end the relationship with Charles Williams, but he
(18:36):
he chose violence, decided to kind of stalk her down
at her work and then assault her through the window
of its car yep, and things kind of spiraled from there.
As you said, she kind of decided against the restraining order,
wasn't able to get a protective order, and that's where
(18:58):
we left off.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Well after So on Wednesday, September third, two thousand and three,
it was a typical day for Mandy. She clocked in
at eight am at the New Bilo store, that she
had moved to on East North Street in Greenville because
she wanted to work the first shift so she could
be with her daughter more. And she was working in
(19:22):
the deli and training to be a manager awesome, so
this store gave her better opportunity. She was in good
spirits like she always was, but this day she was
especially excited because she had plans to take her daughter
to the sc Upper State Fair after work, all right,
and that weekend she was going to be spending time
(19:43):
on her parents pontoon boat on Lake Hartwelle. So she
was excited.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
She had she was ready.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
It had been two months since her brutal attack, and
Mandy hadn't seen or heard from Charles, that is until
around ten am when Charles walked into the store dressed
in a Camo's shirt, carrying a loaded twelve gage shotgun
with five bullets strapped to his leg. He walked straight
towards the deli, and at the time there were about
(20:13):
fifteen customers and employees in the store, and the manager
grabbed them. He like sees, obviously this man walking in
not trying to hide this weapon, and he starts gathering
people and gets them out of the store. Mandy, unfortunately,
was not so lucky. Charles grabbed Mandy and led her
(20:34):
into a small office by the deli keeping the gun
pointed at her the entire time and ordered her to
call nine one one. He instructed her to tell them
that he would shoot her if anyone approached the store.
Sheriff's deputies in Greenville City Police arrived at the scene
minutes later, surrounding the store with their guns drawn. Stores
(20:57):
that were facing the bilob and kind of around the
area were evacuated as a precaution, and traffic was walked
between North pleasant Burg and Selwyn Drive because now they
had a hostage situation.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Good gosh, Charles.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
So swat team and hostage negotiators showed up and made
contact with Charles. He told negotiators that he just needed
to talk to Mandy and you can just call me
back in about ten minutes. Well, this went on, you know,
for a while, where he would they would make contact
with him and then he'd say, well call me back
in ten minutes, or he would just hang up on him.
(21:34):
And this happened, you know, four more times that he
ended up speaking with them over ninety minutes. This went
on for almost two hours. They're in the store.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Hush, poor Mandy, probably scared.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
To death, And apparently they could hear her in the
background every time he was on the phone, you know,
begging him to just let her go. Clearly she was
terrified and he refused. But when he last time they spoke,
the negotiators spoke with him, they had a feeling that
Charles seemed like he was more calm and reasonable than
(22:10):
he had been in the beginning, and they were really
feeling like they were making progress and he was gonna
lead this situation without hurting her.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
They they might have believed that, but Mandy was going
that Mandy was going to leave the situation unharmed. But
she did not, and as time ticked away, around eleven
forty five, Mandy became more hysterical, and for reasons unknown,
she saw her chance and she made a run for it.
But Charles was right behind her, firing five shots at
(22:43):
her back, three hitting her, one almost severing her arm,
and she was hit twice in the back and she
was killed instantly.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
During this time, SWAT members had been trying to make
entry into the building. They were trying to find it
ducks ways that they can send. I mean, that's what
they do, and one of the SWAT members actually heard
through the air vents the gunshots. Unfortunately, Mandy's mother had
been in the grocery store parking lot. This is all
over the news. Everyone knew that this was you know,
(23:17):
you had live coverage. Everybody's on scene, and her mother
had arrived seeing that her daughter was in danger, and
unfortunately she was soon informed by an agent that her
daughter had been killed. SWAT agents moved in and Charles
told them to just kill him because he wanted to
be with Mandy. But he was eventually taken into custody
(23:40):
without incident, and he gave a lengthy confession and never
asked for a lawyer. A forensic psychiatrist from SLED interviewed
Charles about the events leading up to this day, and
he said that he kept a journal and it detailed
his plans for that day. A search warrant was conducted
for Charles's mother house, where he lived, and they found
(24:03):
the journal in his bedside table. Inside they found a
hand drawn layout of the bilo Mandy worked at, along
with her work schedule and the clothing he planned to wear.
Oh my gosh, so he that's premeditated.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Oh yeah, but to draw out a map and plan
your outfit for that day that he knew her schedule.
I mean, he was stalking her for.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
A long time, and she's thinking, I haven't heard from him.
I haven't seen.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Him because he was out.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
So I'm out, you know. So I I think I'm
finally getting to a point where I'm away from him.
And he was gathering information.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Preparing for attack. Yes, sicker.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
He also wrote that he planned to give Mandy a choice.
He could strangle her or he could shoot her. Charles
was charge with murder, kidnapping, and possession of a firearm
during a crime and was held at the Greenville County
Jail without bond. And we'll take one last.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Break, but before that, let's let's break this down. Okay,
before we go to this break. So her choices were
to be strangled or to be shot. Yes, not let's
get back together or work things out. He just wanted
he felt hurt. He was so selfish that he felt hurt.
(25:32):
He just wanted to dole out pain to.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
And it's one of that mentality of Okay, I know
I'm not going to get her back, so if I
can't have you nobody can kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Yeah, if I'm not happy, you're never going to be happy.
I think that's a better way to yeah, classify that.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
M hm.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Wow, guys, here's your PSA and I have absolutely no
empirical evidence to back this up. I have never and
it's probably never happened that you assault a woman or
pull a gun on her at her work and take
(26:12):
her hostage. That never really works out. She's never gonna
come back. I don't think after that, she's not gonna
be that's not charming.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
You've you've convinced me on what I'm missing out on.
I will come back, boy.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Yeah, man, this is this is the life that I want.
You have opened my eyes to it.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Man, come on, dog, all right, get your head out
of the cloud.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Now you can go to and get your head out.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Of your ass.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
I'll think you that.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
But but okay, now you can lead us in the break.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Okay, so we'll take this last break before we get
into his trial and kind of things that transpired after.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Yes, all right, folks will be right back after this
quick word from our sponsors, and welcome back to Carolina Crimes,
(27:20):
Episode two thirty one out of the Greenville area, South Carolina,
and horrendous, horrendous murder of Mandy Williams, the youngest sibling
of five great mother, daughter to a mother that cared
(27:43):
so much about her that shared up. She showed up
her daughter was in peril, and showed up there at
the store where she worked, where this psychopath took her hosted.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
And I couldn't imagine the fear that she felt, hope,
you know, wondering how this is going to end.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Or the wherewithal as apparent to let me get in
that store.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
Yeah, let me handle it.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Yeah, unbelievable, unbelievable tragedy.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Well, Charles Williams was set went to trial in February
of two thousand and five, but before that, his defense
team fought to keep the Journal out because Charles had
told the forensic psychiatrists about the journal, and even though
she worked for the police and he spoke willingly, she
was not officially treating him, so she shouldn't have had
(28:36):
access to that information. Therefore it shouldn't be in trial. Well,
the prosecutors were like, this would have been found with
the basic search warrant, which it was, so either way
we would have found it, and it was allowed good.
Two letters were also admitted that Charles had written, one
to he had planned to give to Mandy, professing his love,
(28:59):
and the second was his plans for that day, the
same ones that were outlined in his journal. The defense
also tried to keep the nine to one one calls
out because they said by hearing Mandy's cries for help
in the background was essentially like having someone on the
stand to testify that couldn't be cross examined.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Yeah, but they were the victim, and the reason they
can't be cross examined because of your client.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
So tough, But the prosecutors argue that you know, they
had been admitted the whole time. I don't know why
you're waiting until now to have a problem with it.
And in the tapes, Charles, when you're I mean, there
are certain times, especially when you're on the phone with
nine to one one, you have no expectation of privacy.
Their calls are being recorded, and Charles spoke with negotiators
(29:49):
the whole time, so they were going to be played anyways,
and they were. Charles stated that he told police directly
after the shooting that he was planning on letting Mandy go,
but she he grabbed the gun and accidentally pulled the trigger.
Now she was shot in the.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Back, three times in the back. So he wants to
play the victims.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
So he's he's trying to act like you know he was.
He just his whole thing was I was going there
to talk to her, and he felt like she won't
talk to me. I don't know if he'd been before that.
You know, I beat her up, but she doesn't want
to talk to me, and he felt that the only
way I get her to listen to me is if
I just get her alone, or she can't go anywhere.
(30:32):
And he looked at it as I was just gonna
talk to her, and I was just gonna let her go,
but she accidentally pulled the trigger and that's what happened
and shot herself three times at the back. So after
try again. After five days of testimony, the jury deliberated
for ninety minutes before finding Charles guilty of murder, kidnapping,
(30:56):
and the firearms charge. Next came the sentencing while where
the main issue would be if he got the death
penalty or life in prison okay, The defense brought in
doctors who assessed Charles's neurological and psychological issues and social
workers that had interviewed his friends and family to kind
of get more background. Did he have the mental wherewithal
(31:21):
did you?
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Did you say he pled guilty?
Speaker 3 (31:23):
No, he was found injury.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
So he really went through with the defense of this
was yes, her accidentally shooting herself.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Yeah, he was found guilty by a jury. After five
hours of deliberation, the jury sent a note to the
judge saying that they were split nine to three and
asked for instructions of what procedure do we need to
follow because this isn't working. We're not coming to an agreement.
(31:52):
So the judge told the defense and the prosecutors he
was planning to give what's called an Allen charge. I've
never heard. This is also called the dynamite charge or
the hammer charge, and it comes from a court case.
I looked it up Allen versus the United States from
eighteen ninety six, and it means that the judge instructs
(32:13):
a jury to keep deliberating until they come to an agreement.
That is, basically forcing them to make a decision so
that they do not have a home jury.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
That I think just came into play last week really
with the Diddy trial, Oh yeah, yeah, where they came
up with a verdict on two and they said we couldn't,
we can't on the others, and he said, no, you're
gonna get your behinds back in there and try again. Yeah, yeah, Allen,
(32:47):
because I knew I had just heard that somewhere. I
thought you had brought it.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
Up, but no, it was because I went back a
little and I was like eighteen ninety six. But yeah,
so it's been around for a while and it basically
is where the judge goes, figured out, I'm throwing this down. Yeah,
here's the gauntlet, figured out were not ways. So they've
already been he's already been found guilty. Figured it out, Yeah,
like midwestern four more hours of deliberating, So they've been
(33:14):
deliberating nine hours at this point. They came back death penalty.
In twenty and seventeen, Charles petitioned the US District Court
for what's called a writ of habeas corpus, which is
a court order which requires a person that is in
jail or government custody to be brought before a judge
(33:34):
and then the purpose is to determine where the whether
their detention is lawful, so it's used to challenge an
unlawful detention or imprisonment. I don't know if he felt
that he wasn't his death sentence. I think he was
trying to say that the death sentence wasn't you know,
was unlawful or whatever. But in his appeal he had
(33:56):
eleven charges and the district judge denied all of them
but one, the claim that Charles's mother drank while she
was pregnant with him, and his legal team failed to
investigate the possibility that he suffered from fetal alcohol syndrome.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Which according to what you said earlier, could be.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
A possibility, and they say they're saying his defense team
never looked into it. And another forensic psychologist testified that
Charles did show signs that he suffered from fetal alcohol
syndrome and that he had problems with self regulation and control,
he had behavioral difficulties, and he had the coping skills
of a nine year old, and that does sound accurate
(34:37):
that it checks out. A magistrate judge vacated his death sentence,
and a district judge upheld it. On February fifth, three
circuit court judges agreed and vacated his death sentence, and
in twenty twenty three Charles got postconviction relief and his
sentence was commuted and he is currently serving a life
(34:58):
sentence at liber Correctional.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
So he saved his own skin. And really, I guess
they were going on medical medical knowledge and saved his life.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Yeah, I mean, because they looked at it as I'm like,
this doesn't hold, you know, because they try to throw
a bunch of stuff out in these appeals. But you know,
so I said earlier, I was like, I'll get back
to the whole how I feel about the criminal domestic
violence laws in South Carolina. I took a public speaking
course when I was in college in Charleston, and one
(35:37):
of the spaces I had to give was an informative speech,
and I chose to talk about domestic violence laws in
South Carolina because I had a neighbor and a close
friend of my mom was killed by her husband. And
at the time it could be different, but you had
to be arrested three times in a single year. So
if you did something on Thanksgiving, you got out. You
(35:58):
did something on Christmas, you got out, you did something
on New Year's Day, That third one starts over. It's
a new year.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
That's symbol right there.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
Dude, So that doesn't make any sense you, So that
it's like, well, now I got to meet you a
couple more times and get arrested before that third offense
comes into place. So it's just doesn't make sense. But
in twenty fifteen I did look up to see if
anything had changed, and a bill was signed for coercive control,
which refers to a pattern of abuse of assault, threats, humiliation, manipulation, intimidation,
(36:34):
and it's punishable for up to ten years in prison
and a ten thousand dollars fine. And the bill's intent
is to expand domestic violence laws and examples of those
are like isolating people from friends and family, threatening to
harm them or their children. You know, the basic signs
of abuse, financial control, even threatening them so you can
(36:54):
do other things besides it being a physical offense. So
that's a big scope. And as of twenty twenty three,
South Carolina is now rated six in the state in
the country for women killed by men in domestic violence situations,
and out of fifty states, only eight have ever ranked
in the top ten, and South Carolina has held that
(37:14):
rank at the top ten for twenty three out of
the past twenty five years, so we still have a
long way to go. I do do the domestic violence
walks in Columbia and things like that, But it's an
important story. It's unfortunate. Mandy was just doing what she
was supposed to do, and she just had a person
who was very unstable, who was unable to just accept
(37:38):
the fact that it's over, you know, just yes, yeah,
oh yeah, I mean got no. She got someone with
who with someone who was unstable and was unable to
just accept the fact that maybe I just need to
let this go and I don't know, try to find
someone else it's.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Better for you or right for you.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
But let her have hers in stead. You took her
life and took you know her from her parents and
took her daughter from you know her from her daughter. Yeah,
and it's just it's senseless.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
It's awful.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
It made national headlines because I mean, you don't really
hear about Hasa's situations and grocery stores in the middle
of the day. Yeah, but I thought it was important
that the story to be told.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
It very much so, very much so. And if you're
find yourself in one of these situations. I mean, she
did the right thing. At the first sign of you know, violence,
him punching a hole in the wall, she's out. She
did the right thing. She said, okay, we're this and
this sitting jib and I'm gone. And then the assault
(38:46):
at the grocery store. I'm shocked he didn't get time
for that. Yeah, I'd like to I'd like to dive
back into there and see why he didn't. Or maybe
he was still out on bond. He may have still
been out on bond when he tried this kidnapping and murder.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
Thing, yeah, because it was only that was in July
and then this happened in September.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Yeah, he was still out on bond.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
H Actually I did look, now that you bring that up.
I looked, and that actually ended up not being dropped.
But it was just nol pross on the website just
because it was like there was no point in prosecuting
him on that because he was now facing his murder charge. Yeah,
so he was. There was no conclusion to that one
(39:31):
because he hadn't had his day in court yet.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Incredible, Yeah, incredible. But as a dad of two twenty
year olds, you know, this is my worst nightmare, you know,
seeing them hooked up with some psychopath, can't take no
for an answer, and uh and being that yet God
(39:56):
bless him with discernment. I mean, I don't please.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
Please, well, I don't. I mean I think being that
age getting into these serious, more serious relationships, you are
still learning things about what a relationship looks like. And
you know, I'll hear or see certain things with people
and I'm like, I might, I might say a little
something like, you know, that's not normal or and I
have actually said to someone that this is not what
(40:22):
love looks like. Yeah, it's They use the L word
and say it's love, but it's not. And it's just
something that you have to understand that you know, you
deserve better than that. There are people out there that
will treat you right and if not love yourself.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
I mean, and you've got if you've got somebody that
was or is a significant other, you know, trying to
isolate you from family and cuss you out and throw
stuff and cuss out your sisters and stuff like, I mean,
you're a piece trash. Move on, I said it.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
You need to get help.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Yeah, yeah, you need. You need to get help before
help get you I think that's a good way to
put it. Yep. So, God, my heart goes out to
this family. Yeah, Mandy's daughter, siblings or for siblings or mom. Man. Yeah,
awful stuff, awful stuff. But like you said, this is
(41:25):
something that needs to be talked about. It needs to
be brought to light. Monsters like this that prey upon
other people, they need to be called out and put
out in the sun, sunlight, hear them.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
Out and talk to someone who will stand up to them.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Yeah. Yeah, Well, folks, thank you for listening to this
week's edition of Carolina Crimes. Next week we're gonna have
a lot of a lot of thank yous to give
out folks that have contacted us, given us a lot
of feedback about these shows. But uh, never never stand
for domestic violence, Never cover it up, never be the
(42:01):
purveyor of it.
Speaker 3 (42:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Just if you feel yourself getting that upset, you need
to walk off somewhere, do yourself and everybody else on
this planet of favor. Yeah again. If you're not following
us on social media, check us out Carolina Crimes Podcast.
Also over on Twitter at sc crimes Pod. Check us
out if you're listening on Apple iTunes, Apple podcasts or Spotify.
(42:27):
Please throw us five star review, mash that purple subscribe button,
and tell us a little something you like about the show.
Your pet's names. We'll like to recognize some of those certainly,
And if you're looking for some sweet Carolina Crimes paraphernalia
for your back, head on over to Carolina Crimestore dot
com and until next week, thank you for listening to
(42:49):
Carolina Crimes.
For over three hundred and fifty years, the state of
South Carolina has been the setting for some of the
most horrendous crimes ever committed. Some have gained global notoriety,
some have been forgotten, and others have been swept under
the rug completely. Now, two South Carolina natives and true
(00:26):
crime enthusiasts have teamed up to examine these heinous acts
in detail, giving their perspective of the evil that has
resided in the Palmetto State. You're listening to Carolina Crimes.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
And welcome back to Carolina Crimes episode two thirty one.
I'm one of your hosts, Matt Hyres, along.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
With Danielle Myers, and we're over the.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Moon real that you joined us here this week. Thank
you so much to everybody that reached out after last
week's episode had a Greenville, South Carolina. We had that
double shot too little kind of one a full episode
and then a little minisode on the end, just to
give our listeners something to enjoy for a full fifty minutes.
(01:13):
But we appreciate your feedback from there. Two incredible stories,
one open ended cold case and one just an unbelievable
story of violence within the family and just incredible for sure,
and that was a listener's suggestion. We appreciate those. Best
way to get those to us is through Facebook Messenger,
(01:36):
and if you're not already following us on Facebook, check
us out at Carolina Crimes Podcast. Also over on Twitter
at sc Crimes pod. Also, if you're listening on Apple
iTunes and Apple Podcasts, make sure to throw us a
five star review, mash that purple subscribe button, and tell
us a little something you like about the show. Your
pets names, your favorite dessert, if you're a cake person
(01:59):
or a pie person, catboy or dog boy like Baby
Billy says, but uh yeah, tell us a little something
that helps the Apple algorithm somehow, some way out in
the cyberspace face space. Also, if you're looking to get
some sweet Carolina Crimes paraphernalia for your back, head on
(02:19):
over to Carolina Crimes store dot com and check out
the merch over there. We would greatly appreciate that. So
this is not a rerun, but we are going to
be coming from Greenville one more time. Greenville. We're wearing
you out. We gotta get We got to get back
around the state next week.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Sure, it's weird, like we've talked about this in the past,
but you and I, you'll, I think you asked if
we have we covered this case from Greenville, and I'm like, well,
just that you know mine's already mine's from Greenville too.
It's just weird how we sometimes, Yeah, du wrong one
from the same area.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Yeah, we follow each other around that we were both
in the PD a couple of weeks ago. I was like, dude, okay,
but South Carolina not that large of a state when
you boil it down and we're all here together in
the Palmetta States. So enjoy this one from Greenville, South Carolina.
But just following up, of course, we're not gonna give
you a full history at Greenville again. But Greenville for
(03:16):
those of you if it's your first time listening and
you're not familiar with South Carolina. It's up in the
northwest corner of the state, bordered to the east by
Spartanburg and then over to the west by Pickens Oconee.
Also portion of Lawns County borders Greenville as well, so
(03:39):
Greenville of course. The county founded in seventeen eighty six,
named for General Nathaniel Green, one of the textile capitals
of the world in its heyday, and we were celebrating
kind of its renaissance of downtown last week and some
of the wonderful attractions they have for people to come
and visit. And it has become kind of a vacation
(04:02):
or weekend getaway destination for a lot of people in
the foothills up in North Carolina. They come down to
Greenville and I've done that.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
They have a lot of great stuff to do for
a weekend getaway, and people are.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Saying it's kind of becoming almost like an Ashville type.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Yeah, totally. I've got a good bit of breweries there.
They've got that suspension bridge that they've built you can
go over the river. Yeah, a little weird because it moves.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
But and I kind of take that personally, the whole
brewery boom thing. I mean, as soon as I quit
drinking about fifteen years ago. Now all of a sudden
they're coming up with breweries and all kinds of cool
stuff I never got the chance to partake in, but
god willing, I won't. Yeah, so yeah, we'll cool off
(04:51):
on that. So, Danielle, you're going to be bringing us
this episode from Greenville, and wana't you get us started,
all right.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
I did find a good bit of stuff on here,
but there was only I think one podcast that I
saw that had covered this, and that was our girl,
Erica Kelly at Southern Fried True Crime. She does a
great job, she does, and I like listening to her,
and she did a really good job. She got more
in depth in the trial and appeals and things. I
(05:21):
just kind of touched on it a little bit, but
we'll go ahead and jump right into this.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Yeah, get the meat and potatoes.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
A crime. So.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Miranda Lee Williams was born on June seventh, nineteen seventy nine,
to Gary and Patricia in Piedmont, South Carolina, and she
was the youngest of five siblings, so the baby. She
went by Mandy and was known for her cheerful disposition.
(05:49):
By two thousand and two, Mandy was twenty four and
she had a two year old daughter, who Patricia said
Mandy took everywhere with her because she wanted her daughter
to experience everything very.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Well.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
I mean, I'm thinking, if you know, she went to
the store, took her to events, you know, not bar
hopping or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Oh well, good for you.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Manby Mandy had been working at the Bilow on Woodruff Road.
I don't think there's very many leves. Dude.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
I love store. I miss Bilow. And that's for those
of you not familiar. That was a kind of like
wind Dixie or Haris Teeter Publics, but it was I mean,
it wasn't as fancy as most, but you could. It
was always clean and you knew where everything was. And
that's when it was a.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Grocery store I grew up going to.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yeah, And I mean that's one of my biggest I
don't consider myself to have anxiety, but to go into
a grocery store and not know where everything's at. I
hate reading the signs. I mean, yeah, I get it,
I'll find the stuff, but I like to know exactly
where everything's gonna be. Like I'm, i'm, I'm. I'm a
(07:05):
little miffed at Old Food Line. They've renovated all the
stores and they put bread on an aisle that's not
wide enough, and you know, moved like the prepared meats,
like the like the boloney and stuff like that, just
shuffled everything around.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Man, you know why they do that.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
They may pissed me off.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
That's exactly they're like in their.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Meeting, conspiracy, sabotage.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
We're gonna we're gonna get Matt higher.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah. Now you're gonna spend two hours in the grocery.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
They do it so you have to go multiple places,
so you pick up those little items you didn't need.
Set you up.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Yeah, bol but I'm sorry, Mandy. Mandy worked at.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Bayla Yes on Woodruff Road in Greenville, and she had
been there for a while when she met a man
named Charles Christopher Williams. Yes, they do have the same
last name. That's just a coincidence in case there's any confusion, okay.
And he was four years younger than her at twenty
years old, and he also worked there. Charles was what
(08:12):
would be considered the polar opposite of Mandy. He came
from a home where his parents were described as negligent alcoholics,
with their being that his mom even drank while she
was pregnant with him. And his parents divorced and this
affected Charles and his sister greatly and caused him to
struggle in school, and he dropped out his sophomore year
(08:34):
of high school and started going to a local technical school,
which he also quit. But these differences didn't seem to
bother Mandy, and the two begin dating, with Mandy being
described as his first real girlfriend at twenty years old.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
That's about I mean, you probably have some high school
girlfriend yeah, boyfriends whatever, and and twenty's about where you're like, Okay,
I need to start thinning the herd here and maybe
look for a potential long term mate.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Yes, I was twenty one when I met my husband.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Eh I was thirty two. I finally calmed down when
I met my wife.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
So yes, it happens. You know, some people need a
little more time.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yeah, I was. I was being extra selected. That's why
I did tell myself picky.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Charles became quickly infatuated with Mandy, even branding an M
on his arm. Not a tattoo, oh I know, so
just being clear about that. He branded it. I don't
know how, but hot coat hanger who knows. The two
had an on and off again relationship, but after a
trip that they took to the beach in May of
(09:48):
two thousand and three, they got into a fight where
Charles punched a hole in the wall, and afterwards Mandy
ended things for good because she decided she didn't need
to have that kind of thing around her. Daughter.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yeah, and guys, I know we get upset, but punching
a hole in the wall. I've never been that mad.
Nor I don't think I've ever been that drunk that
I destroyed some property or something like that. But guys,
(10:20):
calm down, man, punching a walling's that's.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Really what's it gonna flag?
Speaker 2 (10:26):
And babyish come.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
On you well, And I'd put that that was good
for her because a lot of women in similar situations
will stay over the wants and needs of their children.
And she was like, no, I don't need this kind
of person around my child, and she ended things for good.
Charles did not handle this very well, swallowing fifty pills.
I don't know what they were, But then he drove
(10:49):
himself to the hospital where he told them that he
tried to kill himself. He was medically cleared and released
without any psychological evaluation, which I think would would almost
be like a requirement if somebody even said they were
attempting to kill themselves, you'd have someone from sych to
come and talk to you. But they didn't. Well after
(11:11):
his failed suicide attempt, I would, if you can call it,
that could have been a cry for help. Maybe trying
to gain sympathy from her.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Yeah maybe maybe.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Charles refused to give up on the idea that him
and Mandy were officially over, so on July sixteenth of
two thousand and three, he showed up to the grocery
store wanting to speak with her, but she had her
manager ask him to leave.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Okay? Was he still working there?
Speaker 3 (11:37):
No? Okay, and he did, or so she thought. Instead,
he had waited four hours in the parking lot for
her to get off her shift. She walked out to
her car and got in the driver's seat when all
of a sudden, Charles runs up to the car, throws
open the passenger door and jumps in and trying to
(12:00):
talk to her, and she's begging him to get out
of her car, leave me alone.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
So she managed to get out of the car and
ran towards the grocery store so she could get her manager,
but Charles jumped out as the same time she did so,
she made a U turn and ran back to her vehicle,
jumped in and locked the doors, and as she was
trying to roll up the window, Charles reached through and
punched her multiple times in the face until she was unconscious.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Good gosh.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
By then people had seen this happen and the police
were called. Mandy was taken to Greenville Memorial Hospital, where
she was treated for several broken bones in her face
that had been shattered. Mandy later told investigators that she
heard him say I'm going to kill you before she
lost consciousness, and a witness said that they saw Charles
hit her in the face with his fists five times,
(12:53):
look around, and then hit her two more times. Ma'am
so very violent attack, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Through your own car window.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
And Charles was arrested and charged with the sultan battery
with intent to kill and was given a forty five
thousand dollars bond, and he made bail and was out
the next day. I do have in parentheses. Don't get
me started on domestic violence laws in South Carolina, but
we'll get to that later.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
And depending I'm just I am not condoning one bit
what he did. But if you look at that bond,
depending on what he had prior, I mean, that's a
that's a hefty bond. That was like a well, he
said assault and battery intent to kill. That's a I
(13:48):
guess that's more than a sult and battery of a
high and aggravated nature. Some ab hands yea stuff, But
forty five thousand dollars, especially if that was his first offense,
that's uh, that's that's significant. Somebody had to come up
with forty five hundred dollars to get him out cash
mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Well, after Mandy's attack, she went to the Greenville County
Magistrate's office to get a restraining order. But and this
is a little weird, the clerk that was working at
the front office, who was I guess responsible for people
coming to you know, she whatever they needed, especially restraining orders,
kind of made an offhanded comment to her about how
restraining orders are used. This is useless because if somebody
(14:32):
wants to break through it, they will.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
I mean, she's technically right, not wrong, but.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
You wouldn't think that you would still want to talk
somebody out of that. Yeah, but that is what she
ended up doing because.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Odd piece of information for employee of the court to give.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Well, and Mandy ended up leaving without filing. Because Mandy
didn't live with Charles and she wasn't married or related
to him, she wasn't able to get an order of
protection against him. So she's kind of hitting brick walls
left and right. Here she's trying to keep him away
from her. Bilo did get a no trespassing order against him,
(15:11):
so he was not allowed on the property and if
he showed up, he would be arrested.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Yeah, none of that Walters produce for you, boy.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
So things seem to be calming down, and Mandy was
moving on with her life, but her piece would be
short lived. And we're going to take a quick break
and get into the events.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
All right, Well, I don't like the way this is headed,
but we'll be right back after this quick word from
our sponsors, Hi friends, Matt Hire's here. One of my
favorite parts of bringing you Carolina Crimes each week is
(15:55):
spotlighting the many wonderful towns and communities within our great state.
And today I'm proud to encourage you all to check
out one of my personal favorites. Rather on a road
trip or a weekend getaway, discover Mullins. Once a vibrant
depot town and the former tobacco capital of South Carolina,
Mullins is a hidden treasure in the PD region. Explore
(16:18):
our offerings by savoring a cup of coffee at our
delightful Coffee shop enjoying lunch at any of our charming restaurants,
visiting old Brick Square, and shopping at our quaint retail stores,
which include an antique market located in a repurposed tobacco warehouse.
Your visit would not be complete without a stop at
the South Carolina Tobacco Museum, situated in the historic train
(16:42):
depot in downtown Mullens, South Carolina. Here you can explore
various exhibits such as models of tobacco plants at each
growth stage, a blacksmith shop, a log tobacco barn filled
with cure tobacco, a farmhouse kitchen showcasing vintage equipment, and
a photo gaps highlighting contemporary tobacco practices. The Mullins Room
(17:04):
honors our town's origins and its swift growth driven by
the railroad and the tobacco industry. Additionally, in late June
twenty twenty five, the Reverend Daniel Simmons Museum will open
its doors to the public. Within the Tobacco Museum, Reverend
Simmons was one of the victims of the Mother Emmanuel
nine tragedy, and he spent his childhood in Mullins and
(17:26):
worked in its Tobacco warehouses. Thanks to a generous loan
from his daughter Rose, we will exhibit many of his
personal belongings, including his beloved Bible. The documentary of his life,
One Last Breath, will be continuously streamed in the museum.
Rather it's for a road trip or a weekend getaway,
Mullins is a perfect place to visit and a place
(17:48):
to call home. Visit Mullins, South Carolina, and welcome back
(18:14):
to Carolina Crimes, episode two thirty one out of Greenville County,
South Carolina, and this story about Miranda Mandy Williams, who
got kind of tied up with the wrong guy. She
tried to end the relationship with Charles Williams, but he
(18:36):
he chose violence, decided to kind of stalk her down
at her work and then assault her through the window
of its car yep, and things kind of spiraled from there.
As you said, she kind of decided against the restraining order,
wasn't able to get a protective order, and that's where
(18:58):
we left off.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Well after So on Wednesday, September third, two thousand and three,
it was a typical day for Mandy. She clocked in
at eight am at the New Bilo store, that she
had moved to on East North Street in Greenville because
she wanted to work the first shift so she could
be with her daughter more. And she was working in
(19:22):
the deli and training to be a manager awesome, so
this store gave her better opportunity. She was in good
spirits like she always was, but this day she was
especially excited because she had plans to take her daughter
to the sc Upper State Fair after work, all right,
and that weekend she was going to be spending time
(19:43):
on her parents pontoon boat on Lake Hartwelle. So she
was excited.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
She had she was ready.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
It had been two months since her brutal attack, and
Mandy hadn't seen or heard from Charles, that is until
around ten am when Charles walked into the store dressed
in a Camo's shirt, carrying a loaded twelve gage shotgun
with five bullets strapped to his leg. He walked straight
towards the deli, and at the time there were about
(20:13):
fifteen customers and employees in the store, and the manager
grabbed them. He like sees, obviously this man walking in
not trying to hide this weapon, and he starts gathering
people and gets them out of the store. Mandy, unfortunately,
was not so lucky. Charles grabbed Mandy and led her
(20:34):
into a small office by the deli keeping the gun
pointed at her the entire time and ordered her to
call nine one one. He instructed her to tell them
that he would shoot her if anyone approached the store.
Sheriff's deputies in Greenville City Police arrived at the scene
minutes later, surrounding the store with their guns drawn. Stores
(20:57):
that were facing the bilob and kind of around the
area were evacuated as a precaution, and traffic was walked
between North pleasant Burg and Selwyn Drive because now they
had a hostage situation.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Good gosh, Charles.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
So swat team and hostage negotiators showed up and made
contact with Charles. He told negotiators that he just needed
to talk to Mandy and you can just call me
back in about ten minutes. Well, this went on, you know,
for a while, where he would they would make contact
with him and then he'd say, well call me back
in ten minutes, or he would just hang up on him.
(21:34):
And this happened, you know, four more times that he
ended up speaking with them over ninety minutes. This went
on for almost two hours. They're in the store.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Hush, poor Mandy, probably scared.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
To death, And apparently they could hear her in the
background every time he was on the phone, you know,
begging him to just let her go. Clearly she was
terrified and he refused. But when he last time they spoke,
the negotiators spoke with him, they had a feeling that
Charles seemed like he was more calm and reasonable than
(22:10):
he had been in the beginning, and they were really
feeling like they were making progress and he was gonna
lead this situation without hurting her.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
They they might have believed that, but Mandy was going
that Mandy was going to leave the situation unharmed. But
she did not, and as time ticked away, around eleven
forty five, Mandy became more hysterical, and for reasons unknown,
she saw her chance and she made a run for it.
But Charles was right behind her, firing five shots at
(22:43):
her back, three hitting her, one almost severing her arm,
and she was hit twice in the back and she
was killed instantly.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
During this time, SWAT members had been trying to make
entry into the building. They were trying to find it
ducks ways that they can send. I mean, that's what
they do, and one of the SWAT members actually heard
through the air vents the gunshots. Unfortunately, Mandy's mother had
been in the grocery store parking lot. This is all
over the news. Everyone knew that this was you know,
(23:17):
you had live coverage. Everybody's on scene, and her mother
had arrived seeing that her daughter was in danger, and
unfortunately she was soon informed by an agent that her
daughter had been killed. SWAT agents moved in and Charles
told them to just kill him because he wanted to
be with Mandy. But he was eventually taken into custody
(23:40):
without incident, and he gave a lengthy confession and never
asked for a lawyer. A forensic psychiatrist from SLED interviewed
Charles about the events leading up to this day, and
he said that he kept a journal and it detailed
his plans for that day. A search warrant was conducted
for Charles's mother house, where he lived, and they found
(24:03):
the journal in his bedside table. Inside they found a
hand drawn layout of the bilo Mandy worked at, along
with her work schedule and the clothing he planned to wear.
Oh my gosh, so he that's premeditated.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Oh yeah, but to draw out a map and plan
your outfit for that day that he knew her schedule.
I mean, he was stalking her for.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
A long time, and she's thinking, I haven't heard from him.
I haven't seen.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Him because he was out.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
So I'm out, you know. So I I think I'm
finally getting to a point where I'm away from him.
And he was gathering information.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Preparing for attack. Yes, sicker.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
He also wrote that he planned to give Mandy a choice.
He could strangle her or he could shoot her. Charles
was charge with murder, kidnapping, and possession of a firearm
during a crime and was held at the Greenville County
Jail without bond. And we'll take one last.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Break, but before that, let's let's break this down. Okay,
before we go to this break. So her choices were
to be strangled or to be shot. Yes, not let's
get back together or work things out. He just wanted
he felt hurt. He was so selfish that he felt hurt.
(25:32):
He just wanted to dole out pain to.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
And it's one of that mentality of Okay, I know
I'm not going to get her back, so if I
can't have you nobody can kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Yeah, if I'm not happy, you're never going to be happy.
I think that's a better way to yeah, classify that.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
M hm.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Wow, guys, here's your PSA and I have absolutely no
empirical evidence to back this up. I have never and
it's probably never happened that you assault a woman or
pull a gun on her at her work and take
(26:12):
her hostage. That never really works out. She's never gonna
come back. I don't think after that, she's not gonna
be that's not charming.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
You've you've convinced me on what I'm missing out on.
I will come back, boy.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Yeah, man, this is this is the life that I want.
You have opened my eyes to it.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Man, come on, dog, all right, get your head out
of the cloud.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Now you can go to and get your head out.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Of your ass.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
I'll think you that.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
But but okay, now you can lead us in the break.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Okay, so we'll take this last break before we get
into his trial and kind of things that transpired after.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Yes, all right, folks will be right back after this
quick word from our sponsors, and welcome back to Carolina Crimes,
(27:20):
Episode two thirty one out of the Greenville area, South Carolina,
and horrendous, horrendous murder of Mandy Williams, the youngest sibling
of five great mother, daughter to a mother that cared
(27:43):
so much about her that shared up. She showed up
her daughter was in peril, and showed up there at
the store where she worked, where this psychopath took her hosted.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
And I couldn't imagine the fear that she felt, hope,
you know, wondering how this is going to end.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Or the wherewithal as apparent to let me get in
that store.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
Yeah, let me handle it.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Yeah, unbelievable, unbelievable tragedy.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Well, Charles Williams was set went to trial in February
of two thousand and five, but before that, his defense
team fought to keep the Journal out because Charles had
told the forensic psychiatrists about the journal, and even though
she worked for the police and he spoke willingly, she
was not officially treating him, so she shouldn't have had
(28:36):
access to that information. Therefore it shouldn't be in trial. Well,
the prosecutors were like, this would have been found with
the basic search warrant, which it was, so either way
we would have found it, and it was allowed good.
Two letters were also admitted that Charles had written, one
to he had planned to give to Mandy, professing his love,
(28:59):
and the second was his plans for that day, the
same ones that were outlined in his journal. The defense
also tried to keep the nine to one one calls
out because they said by hearing Mandy's cries for help
in the background was essentially like having someone on the
stand to testify that couldn't be cross examined.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Yeah, but they were the victim, and the reason they
can't be cross examined because of your client.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
So tough, But the prosecutors argue that you know, they
had been admitted the whole time. I don't know why
you're waiting until now to have a problem with it.
And in the tapes, Charles, when you're I mean, there
are certain times, especially when you're on the phone with
nine to one one, you have no expectation of privacy.
Their calls are being recorded, and Charles spoke with negotiators
(29:49):
the whole time, so they were going to be played anyways,
and they were. Charles stated that he told police directly
after the shooting that he was planning on letting Mandy go,
but she he grabbed the gun and accidentally pulled the trigger.
Now she was shot in the.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Back, three times in the back. So he wants to
play the victims.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
So he's he's trying to act like you know he was.
He just his whole thing was I was going there
to talk to her, and he felt like she won't
talk to me. I don't know if he'd been before that.
You know, I beat her up, but she doesn't want
to talk to me, and he felt that the only
way I get her to listen to me is if
I just get her alone, or she can't go anywhere.
(30:32):
And he looked at it as I was just gonna
talk to her, and I was just gonna let her go,
but she accidentally pulled the trigger and that's what happened
and shot herself three times at the back. So after
try again. After five days of testimony, the jury deliberated
for ninety minutes before finding Charles guilty of murder, kidnapping,
(30:56):
and the firearms charge. Next came the sentencing while where
the main issue would be if he got the death
penalty or life in prison okay, The defense brought in
doctors who assessed Charles's neurological and psychological issues and social
workers that had interviewed his friends and family to kind
of get more background. Did he have the mental wherewithal
(31:21):
did you?
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Did you say he pled guilty?
Speaker 3 (31:23):
No, he was found injury.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
So he really went through with the defense of this
was yes, her accidentally shooting herself.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Yeah, he was found guilty by a jury. After five
hours of deliberation, the jury sent a note to the
judge saying that they were split nine to three and
asked for instructions of what procedure do we need to
follow because this isn't working. We're not coming to an agreement.
(31:52):
So the judge told the defense and the prosecutors he
was planning to give what's called an Allen charge. I've
never heard. This is also called the dynamite charge or
the hammer charge, and it comes from a court case.
I looked it up Allen versus the United States from
eighteen ninety six, and it means that the judge instructs
(32:13):
a jury to keep deliberating until they come to an agreement.
That is, basically forcing them to make a decision so
that they do not have a home jury.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
That I think just came into play last week really
with the Diddy trial, Oh yeah, yeah, where they came
up with a verdict on two and they said we couldn't,
we can't on the others, and he said, no, you're
gonna get your behinds back in there and try again. Yeah, yeah, Allen,
(32:47):
because I knew I had just heard that somewhere. I
thought you had brought it.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
Up, but no, it was because I went back a
little and I was like eighteen ninety six. But yeah,
so it's been around for a while and it basically
is where the judge goes, figured out, I'm throwing this down. Yeah,
here's the gauntlet, figured out were not ways. So they've
already been he's already been found guilty. Figured it out, Yeah,
like midwestern four more hours of deliberating, So they've been
(33:14):
deliberating nine hours at this point. They came back death penalty.
In twenty and seventeen, Charles petitioned the US District Court
for what's called a writ of habeas corpus, which is
a court order which requires a person that is in
jail or government custody to be brought before a judge
(33:34):
and then the purpose is to determine where the whether
their detention is lawful, so it's used to challenge an
unlawful detention or imprisonment. I don't know if he felt
that he wasn't his death sentence. I think he was
trying to say that the death sentence wasn't you know,
was unlawful or whatever. But in his appeal he had
(33:56):
eleven charges and the district judge denied all of them
but one, the claim that Charles's mother drank while she
was pregnant with him, and his legal team failed to
investigate the possibility that he suffered from fetal alcohol syndrome.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Which according to what you said earlier, could be.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
A possibility, and they say they're saying his defense team
never looked into it. And another forensic psychologist testified that
Charles did show signs that he suffered from fetal alcohol
syndrome and that he had problems with self regulation and control,
he had behavioral difficulties, and he had the coping skills
of a nine year old, and that does sound accurate
(34:37):
that it checks out. A magistrate judge vacated his death sentence,
and a district judge upheld it. On February fifth, three
circuit court judges agreed and vacated his death sentence, and
in twenty twenty three Charles got postconviction relief and his
sentence was commuted and he is currently serving a life
(34:58):
sentence at liber Correctional.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
So he saved his own skin. And really, I guess
they were going on medical medical knowledge and saved his life.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Yeah, I mean, because they looked at it as I'm like,
this doesn't hold, you know, because they try to throw
a bunch of stuff out in these appeals. But you know,
so I said earlier, I was like, I'll get back
to the whole how I feel about the criminal domestic
violence laws in South Carolina. I took a public speaking
course when I was in college in Charleston, and one
(35:37):
of the spaces I had to give was an informative speech,
and I chose to talk about domestic violence laws in
South Carolina because I had a neighbor and a close
friend of my mom was killed by her husband. And
at the time it could be different, but you had
to be arrested three times in a single year. So
if you did something on Thanksgiving, you got out. You
(35:58):
did something on Christmas, you got out, you did something
on New Year's Day, That third one starts over. It's
a new year.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
That's symbol right there.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
Dude, So that doesn't make any sense you, So that
it's like, well, now I got to meet you a
couple more times and get arrested before that third offense
comes into place. So it's just doesn't make sense. But
in twenty fifteen I did look up to see if
anything had changed, and a bill was signed for coercive control,
which refers to a pattern of abuse of assault, threats, humiliation, manipulation, intimidation,
(36:34):
and it's punishable for up to ten years in prison
and a ten thousand dollars fine. And the bill's intent
is to expand domestic violence laws and examples of those
are like isolating people from friends and family, threatening to
harm them or their children. You know, the basic signs
of abuse, financial control, even threatening them so you can
(36:54):
do other things besides it being a physical offense. So
that's a big scope. And as of twenty twenty three,
South Carolina is now rated six in the state in
the country for women killed by men in domestic violence situations,
and out of fifty states, only eight have ever ranked
in the top ten, and South Carolina has held that
(37:14):
rank at the top ten for twenty three out of
the past twenty five years, so we still have a
long way to go. I do do the domestic violence
walks in Columbia and things like that, But it's an
important story. It's unfortunate. Mandy was just doing what she
was supposed to do, and she just had a person
who was very unstable, who was unable to just accept
(37:38):
the fact that it's over, you know, just yes, yeah,
oh yeah, I mean got no. She got someone with
who with someone who was unstable and was unable to
just accept the fact that maybe I just need to
let this go and I don't know, try to find
someone else it's.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Better for you or right for you.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
But let her have hers in stead. You took her
life and took you know her from her parents and
took her daughter from you know her from her daughter. Yeah,
and it's just it's senseless.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
It's awful.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
It made national headlines because I mean, you don't really
hear about Hasa's situations and grocery stores in the middle
of the day. Yeah, but I thought it was important
that the story to be told.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
It very much so, very much so. And if you're
find yourself in one of these situations. I mean, she
did the right thing. At the first sign of you know, violence,
him punching a hole in the wall, she's out. She
did the right thing. She said, okay, we're this and
this sitting jib and I'm gone. And then the assault
(38:46):
at the grocery store. I'm shocked he didn't get time
for that. Yeah, I'd like to I'd like to dive
back into there and see why he didn't. Or maybe
he was still out on bond. He may have still
been out on bond when he tried this kidnapping and murder.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
Thing, yeah, because it was only that was in July
and then this happened in September.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Yeah, he was still out on bond.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
H Actually I did look, now that you bring that up.
I looked, and that actually ended up not being dropped.
But it was just nol pross on the website just
because it was like there was no point in prosecuting
him on that because he was now facing his murder charge. Yeah,
so he was. There was no conclusion to that one
(39:31):
because he hadn't had his day in court yet.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Incredible, Yeah, incredible. But as a dad of two twenty
year olds, you know, this is my worst nightmare, you know,
seeing them hooked up with some psychopath, can't take no
for an answer, and uh and being that yet God
(39:56):
bless him with discernment. I mean, I don't please.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
Please, well, I don't. I mean I think being that
age getting into these serious, more serious relationships, you are
still learning things about what a relationship looks like. And
you know, I'll hear or see certain things with people
and I'm like, I might, I might say a little
something like, you know, that's not normal or and I
have actually said to someone that this is not what
(40:22):
love looks like. Yeah, it's They use the L word
and say it's love, but it's not. And it's just
something that you have to understand that you know, you
deserve better than that. There are people out there that
will treat you right and if not love yourself.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
I mean, and you've got if you've got somebody that
was or is a significant other, you know, trying to
isolate you from family and cuss you out and throw
stuff and cuss out your sisters and stuff like, I mean,
you're a piece trash. Move on, I said it.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
You need to get help.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Yeah, yeah, you need. You need to get help before
help get you I think that's a good way to
put it. Yep. So, God, my heart goes out to
this family. Yeah, Mandy's daughter, siblings or for siblings or mom. Man. Yeah,
awful stuff, awful stuff. But like you said, this is
(41:25):
something that needs to be talked about. It needs to
be brought to light. Monsters like this that prey upon
other people, they need to be called out and put
out in the sun, sunlight, hear them.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
Out and talk to someone who will stand up to them.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Yeah. Yeah, Well, folks, thank you for listening to this
week's edition of Carolina Crimes. Next week we're gonna have
a lot of a lot of thank yous to give
out folks that have contacted us, given us a lot
of feedback about these shows. But uh, never never stand
for domestic violence, Never cover it up, never be the
(42:01):
purveyor of it.
Speaker 3 (42:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Just if you feel yourself getting that upset, you need
to walk off somewhere, do yourself and everybody else on
this planet of favor. Yeah again. If you're not following
us on social media, check us out Carolina Crimes Podcast.
Also over on Twitter at sc crimes Pod. Check us
out if you're listening on Apple iTunes, Apple podcasts or Spotify.
(42:27):
Please throw us five star review, mash that purple subscribe button,
and tell us a little something you like about the show.
Your pet's names. We'll like to recognize some of those certainly,
And if you're looking for some sweet Carolina Crimes paraphernalia
for your back, head on over to Carolina Crimestore dot
com and until next week, thank you for listening to
(42:49):
Carolina Crimes.
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