October 19, 2025 • 49 mins
On Halloween Night 1958, two strangers met at a late night bar in Charleston, SC. As the night went on, the two bar hopped before eventually ending up at one of their posh Queen St. home. Winthin an hour one man lay dead and the other fled. While the murder sounded like something straight out of the board game "Clue", it was the trial and media coverage that made this case more than noteworthy.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
For over three hundred and fifty years, the state of
South Carolina has been the setting for some of the
most horrendous crimes ever committed. Some have gained global notoriety,
some have been forgotten, and others have been swept under
the rug completely. Now, two South Carolina natives and true
(00:26):
crime enthusiasts have teamed up to examine these heinous acts
in detail, giving their perspective of the evil that has
resided in the Palmetto State. You're listening to Carolina Crimes.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
And welcome back to Carolina Crimes, episode two forty four.
I'm one of your hosts, Matt Hyres, along.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
With Danielle Myers.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
We're over the moon thrilled that you joined us here
for this episode for the month of October. And thank
you so much for the feedback from life last week
about the episode highlighting the atrocities really at Bull Street
and at I don't want to paint a complete bleak picture.
(01:11):
I want to believe that some people were helped there.
We didn't even get into some of the criminals that
were housed there temporarily. Of course, Pee Week Gaskins went
there for psychiatric treatment. A lot of folks that we
had covered in our previous episodes had been there as well.
But I thank you all of you for reaching out
letting us know that you did like that episode. It
(01:34):
was it was something I'd want to do for a while. Yeah,
But before we get started this week, this is one
that I've kind of wanted to do for a while.
But Danielle, you took the reins on this and it's
a interesting story. It's fairly historic. I mean it goes
back quite a ways and happens in the Holy City. Yeah, Charleston.
(01:56):
I've read several articles about this. This is a one
that needs to be talked about for sure. But before
we get started, just a little bit of housekeeping. If
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(02:17):
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(02:40):
Why are you mad dogging me?
Speaker 3 (02:42):
While I was reading that, I'm listening to you.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Okay, And that's why you're just staring a hole through me.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
It's just I'm just listening. It's just my face. I'm
not mad.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
You're weird. Thousand yards stay here, you know.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
What you Okay, I'm gonna play for the fireflies.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
That's right, that's right. Well, Danielle, as I mentioned, this
is going to be from Charleston, South Carolina. We have
covered the history of Charleston over and over again. We
could do an entire two hundred and forty four episode
podcast on the history of Charleston. Probably the most historic
city in our state. It is the oldest city in
(03:21):
our state. But this is one that kind of got
swept under the rug back in the day.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Yeah, So why.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Don't you go ahead and start us off and let
us know what we're gonna be talking about.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Well, you said, this is one you've been wanting to do.
This is one that I stumbled upon. I'd never heard
of it, and started looking into it a little bit further.
It was like, this one's pretty interesting. It's a little bit,
I think, a little bit different it is than what
we've covered in the past. And on top of that,
(03:55):
it kind of just happened where it takes place late
Halloween early the next morning, November first, Austin and his
All Saints Day. So I thought it was, you know,
perfect tie in to this time of year, like to
tell stories relevant to the spooky season, and you were
(04:16):
on board with that with your story last week, and
then now I'm doing this one, and yeah, it was.
It was an interesting one to research. There was a
good bit of stuff on it, considering it is older,
because I know that I've had trouble with that. The
Charleston City Paper did an article.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
They did a great job several years ago about.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
It, and I think they have some news articles we
can put up where they found him in the archives,
some pictures along with some other stuff. I think it
was kind of hard finding some of the victim and
suspect in this case, kind of hard finding those. But
I'll work on trying to get something out there for you.
But we'll start with yes, I'll work So if you've
(05:01):
ever been to Charleston, if you're from the area, you
are living the state, and you visited. Rainbow Row is
an infamous landmark that sits in downtown Charleston, and it's
consisting it consists of thirteen different buildings known for their
different pastel colors. And it's a place that's like the
(05:23):
I've heard it's like the most photographed area in Charleston.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
I'm sure it is, if not in the United States.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Really, and I know, and it sounds weird. It's just
a row of buildings, but it's been in paintings and
news articles, magazines. I mean, it's it's just it's a
It is a pretty area to see and it's a
predominant area.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Oh yes, yes, and you gotta you gotta pay a
pretty penny for those houses down there, and even costs
more than South of the Border. Ooh yeah, which is
up for sale.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
But we might have to stick with just buying South
of the Border.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yeah. One of my most cherished possessions, I think is
a full blown, like seven foot long cross ditch every
home on Rainbow Road. Aunt Robin did it really? She
passed away?
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Oh wow, I didn't know that.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
It took her a couple of years to do and yeah,
and she'd do it after work and it's it's framed,
it is, its beautiful. I just wish I had somewhere
big enough to put it. It's yeah, but you talk
about the fame of Rainbow Road, and that's what people
want to see when they go to Charleston. That's one
(06:36):
of the tourism landmarks. And our boy John Polk down
there at the Charleston Carriage Company, he takes takes tourists
by there every single day.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Well, I know I've always known about it, but I did,
like you say, throw it into my Google machine, because
I did want to know a little bit about it
as far as the history went. And there are a
few different versions as to why these houses or buildings
are painted these different colors. And one of them, which
is I think is pretty funny, is that it was
(07:07):
because the intoxicated sailors coming in from port could remember
which houses they were bumped in. Okay, I'm in the
yellow house.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I can see that.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
That makes sense. Easy landmark.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
I used to be able to maybe relate.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Yes, Another version is the color of the building determine
what the store was for. So this color sells this,
this color sells that, and it was for illiterate slaves,
so they knew which buildings to go into, okay, depending
on what they were looking for.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
So it makes sense.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
And it could be that. I don't know. I think
it's just one of those people. Over time, stuff develops.
But anyways, at the end of the row a street
over is the site of another historical home that was
built in eighteen thirty and it's a typical, pretty one
(08:04):
of the historic homes that you just no significance to it.
But it's just a pretty one of the pretty homes
down there, and it would also become the sight of
a brutal crime. On Saturday, November one, nineteen fifty eight,
Elizabeth Bryant arrived at fourteen Queen Street to perform her
(08:24):
weekly cleaning of the home. Just after eleven am. She
entered the home and walked into the living room, where
she noticed the body of a man lying on the couch.
He was nude, slumped over to the side, and his
face was covered in blood. Cradled in his arms was
(08:48):
a bloody bent candlestick. And this is I was telling you,
this is giving me clue vibes, you know, And that's
just what I think of because I don't think we've
covered this kind of weapon.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
We did, Oh, I think we did? I think yeah, one, Yes,
it was one of our earlier episodes about a young
lady in Columbia.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yes, I do remember that.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Now.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Elizabeth soon recognized the man as twenty nine year old
John Dobbins, and he went by Jack. So that's what
I'm going to refer to him, as he was the
homeowner and the man that she worked for. And she
immediately began screaming, which brought forth Jack's roommate from upstairs,
(09:39):
so there was somebody else that had been in the home.
And he then proceeded to call the police. Inside the home,
they noticed that the crime scene was weirdly orderly. There
were no signs of a struggle other than blood spattered
across the wall in the sofa. On the coffee table
(10:02):
were Jack's underwear, a pack of cigarettes, and two highball
glasses filled with bourbon. So everything that indicated that there
was some kind of intimate night, little hangout that had
occurred recently, and.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Obviously someone else was there. There's two glasses, and obviously
Jack didn't do this to himself with a candlestick.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
The rest of Jack's clothes were upstairs in his room,
along with the other candlestick that matched the one that
was in Jack's arms. These weren't just typical candlesticks. They
were brass heavy candlesticks probably, I mean give or take.
(10:48):
I looked it up because they could be about ten
pounds each, oh, so expensive, a lot of weight to it.
An autopsy was conducted did by Corner Jennings Catherine, and
it showed that Jack had been struck nine times by
the ear, resulting in the fracturing of his skull in
(11:10):
three places. They also determined that there were no signs
of struggle, there were no defensive wounds, and that this
looked like it was a surprise attack.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Wow, so.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
This is someone he knew. Obviously he had welcome and
welcomed this person into his home. So but with the
whole what I said is weirdly orderly. There wasn't It
didn't look like anybody had tried to ramsack the home,
steal anything, so it just seemed very personal. Well, the
(11:44):
only other person in the house at the time was
Jack's roommate, which was twenty five year old MUSC student
Edward Addy, And so police needed to see you know
where he was. You know, you've got your roommate deceased downstairs,
beaten to death. Yeah, you're upstairs asleep. Did this happen
(12:05):
and you did it? Or did you not hear anything?
Speaker 2 (12:09):
So why didn't you hear any? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (12:10):
And we and we need to we need to get
to the bottom of this. So Edward begins to lay
out what happened the previous evening on Halloween Night. He
tells them around six pm, him and Jack had dinner
and then the two of them, along with several of
their friends, went to a Halloween party at a Rutledge
Avenue apartment. Jack left the party around ten pm to
(12:36):
go ten bar at a place called Club forty nine
on King Street. He tended bar a few nights a
week to make a little extra money.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
And what time did he go to work?
Speaker 3 (12:47):
He left the party around ten pm, So this was
a place that stayed up in a little bit later.
The late night crowd and it being Halloween, they might
have stayed open a little bit later just because people
were out and about.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
That's time to start a shift.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
But yeah, martending, they've got weird hours, definitely. Edwards said
that he stayed at the party until around two am
when he left and went home. Well, Edward's alibi was
quickly verified and he was cleared as a suspect, which
seems weird. But now they're like, can't get tunnel vision.
(13:21):
We need to see what transpired after he left his
party and went to work. They looked at the one
place that Jack went to from the Halloween party, and
that was Club forty nine. Okay, so we're gonna take
our first short break and then we're gonna get into
a little bit of the back history of this club, Okay,
(13:46):
and what possibly happened.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
All right, Well, folks will be right back after this
quick word from our sponsors, Hi friends, Matt Hires Here.
One of my favorite parts of bringing you Carolina Crimes
each week is spotlighting the many wonderful towns and communities
(14:09):
within our great state. And today I'm proud to encourage
you all to check out one of my personal favorites.
Rather on a road trip or a weekend getaway, discover Mullins.
Once a vibrant depot town and the former tobacco capital
of South Carolina, Mullins is a hidden treasure in the
PD region. Explore our offerings by savoring a cup of
(14:31):
coffee at our delightful coffee shop, enjoying lunch at any
of our charming restaurants, visiting old Brick Square, and shopping
at our quaint retail stores, which include an antique market
located in a repurposed tobacco warehouse. Your visit would not
be complete without a stop at the South Carolina Tobacco Museum,
(14:52):
situated in the historic train depot in downtown Mullens, South Carolina.
Here you can explore various exhibits such as models of
tobacco plants at each growth stage, a blacksmith shop, a
log tobacco barn filled with cure tobacco, a farmhouse kitchen
showcasing vintage equipment, and a photo gallery highlighting contemporary tobacco practices.
(15:14):
The Mullins Room honors our town's origins and its swift
growth driven by the railroad and the tobacco industry. Additionally,
in late June twenty twenty five, the Reverend Daniel Simmons
Museum will open its doors to the public. Within the
Tobacco Museum, Reverend Simmons was one of the victims of
the Mother Emmanuel nine tragedy, and he spent his childhood
(15:36):
in Mullins and worked in its tobacco warehouses. Thanks to
a generous loan from his daughter Rose, we will exhibit
many of his personal belongings, including his beloved Bible. The
documentary of his life, One Last Breath, will be continuously
streamed in the museum. Rather it's for a road trip
or a weekend getaway, Mullins is a perfect place to
(15:59):
visit and a place to call home. Visit Mullins, South Carolina,
(16:20):
and welcome back to Carolina Crimes, Episode two forty four.
We're out of Charleston, South Carolina. And when we left off,
it's kind of like this clue like mystery. I mean,
there's a homeowner that has deceased, been struck with a
large candlestick nine times behind his ear, pair of underwear,
(16:44):
and a couple of glasses of bourbon, sitting out and
his roommate didn't hear a thing. So he described the
night as you said. He went out to eat, but
Jack and Edward Jack being deceased, and Jack then left dinner,
went to a Halloween party, and then went to a
(17:05):
moonlighting job bartending. Mm hmm, all right.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
At a place called Club forty nine. So before the
break said, I was going to give you a little
background on this place. In the nineteen fifties, being gay,
much less openly expressing it could be dangerous and if
you were ever seen at a place associated or known
as a gay bar, you could have major consequences. For
(17:32):
people who were in the military, teachers, government, or state
workers could lose their jobs if anybody found out that
they were possibly gay.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
And back then it was all legal.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Yes, so now you obviously can't do that, but so
everybody had to be discreet about how they went about
basically living their lives. And the Charleston community decided to
get creative with this and bars began creating bars that
catered to both straight and same sex couples. So I
(18:08):
guess you could say, well, there's straight people in here,
what do you mean this is a gay bar?
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Okay, So it was just kind of like we have.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
It's just a bar, Yeah, but it was there were
certain ones that it was known that that's where you
could go and be okay, but there just happened to
be some straight people there too, okay. So it was
known in the community which places you could be a
little bit more comfortable and kind of feel safe at
(18:38):
all right, and Club forty nine was no different where
they considered the front part of the bar or the
building was gay, the back was mixed with couples gay
or straight, okay, and then the upstairs was gambling and
all right. Though they offered a sort of affront, they
(19:00):
also didn't have an issue openly advertising themselves. There's a picture.
It looks like a match book. I'll put it up,
but they have it on this match book that they
advertised themselves as the gayest spot in town.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Okay. And I mean, I don't know the the time period,
but you talk about like Christmas songs and you know, hey,
yeah it was, and I think that was kind of
(19:35):
the vernacular back then, so it was probably a play
on words like.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
We're the happiest spot in town. They said, well, I
said an article an article they said. It was kind
of almost like a wink and a nudge to the
community to be like, you know, yeah, you see the
kind of place we are, like you picking up what
we're putting down. And there was speculation that Jack may
(20:01):
have also been a part of this community. He was known,
he did very well for himself. He wouldn't be known
to frequent art galleries. He loved to decorate. He was
a very nice dresser, so a lot of people and
he wasn't spotted with a lot of female companions, so
(20:22):
there were people who were like thinking that he might
be gay, but it was never fully verified because he
likes art. Yeah, okay, Well, Halloween night when he went
to go as you said, moonlight at the club forty nine,
he was tending bar and Jack began getting chummy with
(20:43):
one of the patrons that was sitting at the bar,
and after the club closed, the two left together. So
this seems to be the last person that Jack was
seen with alive, so they need to figure out who
this person. Doesn't get them identified. Well, news of this
(21:06):
murder began to spread around town and became known in
the papers as the Candlestick murder. This ended up helping
in the investigation, but not because it brought police new leads.
It actually brought police the killer himself. Really, a man
voluntarily surrendered himself and told police he was responsible for
(21:31):
the death of Jack Dobbins. He was an eighteen year
His name was he was eighteen years old, John Mahone,
and he was an airman who was stationed at the
Charleston Air Force Base. He proceeds to tell them that
Halloween night he went to Club forty nine and sat
(21:53):
at the bar. He was by himself and struck up
a conversation with Jack. Most people, you know, well they're
sitting at a bar, talk to bartender. Yeah, And the
two found a commonality as Jack had also served in
the Air Force. So Jack provided John with free beers
while he was working and they were talking, and after
(22:14):
the club closed, they decided, you know, to continue the
night and go to some other bars, and ended up
at a place called the Elbow Cocktail Bar around two am,
before leaving and going to another place called East Bay
Street Club, where John was denied entry because he failed
(22:35):
to meet the dress code, which I don't know what
it was, but they were like, nah.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
So and so John failed the eighteen year old Yes, okay.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Well that's when Jack decided the two head back to
his place. John said, He told him, come on, I
have better bourbon than this at my place, and with
it being late and John being short on cash, he agreed.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
It reminds me of a saying A used to use,
and you know, and be asked to maybe leave an
establishment or two, and I was like, well, I've been
kicked out away nicer places than this, Yeah, something like that.
I'm paraphrasing. I'm paraphrasing.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
I'm sure you're leaving out some words.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Well, once back at the house, John said that he
removed his jacket while Jack was in the kitchen making drinks,
and then the two sat down on the couch in
the kid living room and talked. John said that's when
he you know, he said, as soon as Jack sat down,
he put his hand on my shoulder and another on
my lap, and I got scared and I was uncomfortable,
(23:45):
and I told him I needed to use the bathroom.
And I don't know if there was in a bathroom downstairs,
but he went upstairs to John's Jack's bedroom to go
to the bathroom, okay, And he said he was in
there for about five minutes, trying to with an excuse
to leave, which is probably almost three four o'clock in
(24:06):
the morning. So I would be like, that's a good
enough one in my opinion.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Yeah, but I'm gonna call it a night dog, you know.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Yeah, like, hey, I just realized I didn't realize how
late it was. But he said that when he came
back into the living room from upstairs, he found Jack
standing in the living room completely nude. He said that
he then ran back upstairs, which is weird. Yeah, and
(24:35):
he thought Jack was following behind him, so he grabbed
the candlestick, one of the candlesticks from Jack's bedroom, and
he went to the bedroom door and looked down the
stairs but didn't see anyone. He then went down the
stairs and walked across the room, and he said Jack
(24:56):
grabbed him and that's when he proceeded to hit him
three or four times and ran out the door.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
So prior to this, he had the opportunity to run
out the door, but he ran upstairs.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
And like they say in horror movies, like don't run
up stairs just for the trap yourself. But it is
interesting that he I feel like there could have been
a moment of First of all, if you're completely naked,
you're more vulnerable. So I feel like you could be like, look,
I didn't sign up for this, I'm leaving, And yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Mean I don't know if I I don't know if
I want to get in a fight naked with anybody,
and I don't know if I definitely don't want to
fight anybody naked. That old adage you never start a
fight with a man in flip flops because he ain't
running anywhere. He's gonna stand his ground. But yeah, that's
(25:52):
what puzzles me is he had the opportunity to leave
and he ran upstairs, he said, according to.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Him, yeah, and he came out and looked around and
still didn't see him when he thought that he was
initially behind him. And he said that he hit him
three or four times and then left, but the autopsy
determined that there were about nine blows to the head.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
He tells them that he thought that he'd only knocked
Jack out, but that he later read in the paper
that he died and said that he couldn't go through
his life with that on his conscience. And according to him,
this was all an accident. He did not mean to
kill him. This was self defense. He was fearful and
(26:39):
that was his story.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Okay, so he was pleading self defense, I guess, yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Okay, Well, due to this confession, John was arrested and
officially charged with the murder of Jack Dobbins, and he
remained in custody until his trial, which would take place
just the following month.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Yeah, they were a lot quicker, a lot more I
don't want to say judicious, but they sped things along
back then.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
Yeah, a little more efficient. I don't know if that's
a good thing.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
We're not, but yeah, and lawyers would say no because
of billable hours and all that.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
So yeah, well we're going to take this last break
and then get into what transpired during this trial and
what the outcome was.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
All right, so folks will be right back after this
quick word from our sponsors, and welcome back to Carolina Crimes,
(27:58):
episode two forty four. And strangely, this murder at a
Queen Street address in Charleston, the killer actually came forward
and pled self defense. He thought there was some shenanigans
going on there he didn't want any part of, and
(28:18):
unwanted sexual advances by Jack Dobbins. So he came and
admitted and he said, hey, I read in the paper
that he died. I want to come forward. You know
it was me.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Which when you put something out there in the newspapers,
now it goes out on the news social media. You
think that it's going to drum up some leads where
they can say, oh, I saw these two and I
don't think that they ever expected that the killer himself
was just going to be like that was me, Yeah,
(28:49):
that's me. Well, like I said, the tribe began just
over a month later, and things were at the time
like they are now, where when something like this happens,
usually the person is found guilty or innocent in the
(29:10):
court of public opinion. Yeah, there are already people who
have that mindset before trial has even begun anything, any
testimony has been brought out. Newspapers were putting things in
the you know, out in articles about John Mahone saying,
you know, describing him as being clean cut, and you know,
(29:31):
just had a little bit of tidbits about Jack, saying
that he had no real girlfriend, he was a meticulous dresser,
he liked art and antiques, such as the prize candlestick
that he was killed with.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Okay, so they were the media was drawing their own narrative. Yeah,
kind of low key, but they were.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Yeah, and it's like, well, this guy has this kind
of way, but this guy is clean cut. He's in
the Air Force.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Yeah, he couldn't be at fault here.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
And it's just trying to get an understanding before anything
is even laid out well. The trial began on December
nineteen fifty eight, and it was a packed courtroom. This
was a spectacle. Everyone in town wanted to be there.
We've talked about that in the past, where you have
an influx of people who want to be there to
(30:24):
see how this is going to play out, to hear testimony,
and just you know, it's the hot the top of
the top of the town right well. During the trial,
Drawn dressed in his Air Force uniform and he kept
his hands tightly clasped in his lap. And on the
(30:45):
first day, five witnesses were called, one of them being
the housekeeper, Elizabeth Bryant, who spoke of the day that
she discovered Jack's body in the living room. The defense
cross examined and asked her if she ever noticed if
Jack had any female visitors, and she said no, but
(31:06):
sometimes the Citadel boys would come by, and the questioning
eventually led Bryant to reveal that Jack had lavender bed sheets,
whereas his roommate's sheets were yellow with white stripes. I'm
not even put in parentheses. I'm not really sure how
this is relevant. It's it's almost like his sexuality was
(31:31):
on trial versus his murder. It's like, we're proving that
he was a gay man and his sheets are lavenders
though exhibit one he didn't have girls over exhibit two,
and it's like, does.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
That mean you're gay? Purple sheets?
Speaker 3 (31:54):
I don't think so. I mean, I.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Was like, I.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Don't. I don't think so. But there were you know,
goes back to those gender norms of having people who
were like, well, guys like blue, girls like pink and purple,
you know, and if you go outside of that, you're weird,
wild and yeah, so this was brought up in trial.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
All right.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Well, the second the roommate, Edward was asked about his
relationship with Jack, and he said that they were on
good terms, didn't have any issues, but he did admit
that there were times where he considered moving out due
to Jack's questionable behavior and tendency toward abnormal behavior, which
(32:38):
I think is what they called it because I saw
it in a few articles abnormal behavior. So wow. The
second day of the trial, more witness witnesses were called,
specifically those that were associated with the various bars that
the two went after leaving Club forty nine, and one
of them was a man that was able to verify that, Yeah,
(33:00):
they didn't come in East Bay Street because street club,
because John didn't fit the dress code. They also questioned
two fellow airmen that said that they remembered when John
returned to base and he had with him a lighter,
a door key, a money clip, a silver nail file,
(33:23):
and twenty three dollars cash. And during the investment, how
do you know he's got all that in his pocket?
I guess he showed it to him because he was
talking to him, because and because he had also well.
They also noticed during the investigation, police looked at the
jack's clothes on his bedroom floor and his pants pockets
(33:44):
were empty. So they do believe that he did take
some stuff from him. But apparently these people knew about
it because he came back and like basically was like, man,
you won't believe what happened last night, and he's like,
I also told he also told him that he beat
up and used the gay slur and he took some
(34:05):
stuff from him, and I think I beat him up
real good. So there was never he indicated that this
is what happened. There was never any indication that he
killed him. He never said that.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
And I mean the way this is going. I hate
like interjecting on his behalf. But he might not have
known that he killed him, but still he robbed him
and committed an assault.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Yeah, all right, Well, during the trial it was published.
You know, when trials are happening, there are people who
were they were constantly reporting on it and talking about
what happened that day, people's opinions. And there was an
anonymous reporter that said it was never satisfactorily explained during
(34:47):
the trial what the airmen talking about John.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Was doing, not the defendant, but the airmen.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
Yeah, the airmen.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
I see what you're doing there.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
I see you. But he said, but this person's actually
on Jack's side where he says it was never satisfactorily
explained during the trial what the airman was doing in
the downtown Charleston bar rooms late at night, dressed in
dungarees and a leather jacket, the costume favored by male
prostitutes on the make. So it sounds like this guy
(35:23):
jeans I guess so, and he's making implications that this
guy was up. Was what was he doing hanging out
at these places?
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (35:34):
Dressed in this wear that is known to male prostitutes.
Who were looking, you know, for trolling. Yeah, John's no
pun intended.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
I'm learning a lot here. I am too learning the
leather jackets, jeans and purple sheets.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
You have to go home room take stock of inventory
in your house.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
I mean, I'm good with who I know, who I am,
but man, this is all new to me.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
But this also goes back to this, Yeah, and this
narrative of what makes you gay, what makes you straight
and understanding. That's right.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Leather jackets here, yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Call it. You're don't try to You're not gonna pull
the wool.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Everything dies you are.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
There were also articles that alluded to Jack's sexuality and
described him as a man of many hobbies but apparently
dedicated to none. He was a favorite of the neighborhood children,
and one of the things they said was Halloween night
he did he got candy for trigger treaters. He did
like to do stuff like that. So he was, you know,
love in the community, okay, and an admirer of fine paintings,
(36:50):
with a flair for artistic home furnishings. And it's just
a lot of irrelevancy, I think.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
But kind of dang man, you take a personal.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
Inventory, that's like this story is attacking me.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Yeah, yeah, wow.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Well several times during the trial, people would laugh or clap,
depending on what was being talked about, and the judge
would have to call everything to.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Order, laughing lass guy's dead.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
That's the thing is, this was not taking this was
reading this. It was not taken seriously like it should have,
because people were like, well, we think that he's a
certain way, so it shouldn't be taken as seriously, which
doesn't make it.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Basically he was saying he's a second class citizen because yeah, okay.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
The prosecuted attorney argued that John set up the events
that night that led to the slagh of Dobbins, and
that robbery was the prime motive because thieves often prey
upon persons of abnormal behavior to get money. I thought
that was interesting, I was like the prosecuting attorney. I
(37:57):
was like, you're arguing for me because I was killed.
Not sure I completely like the way that stated, but
I get what you're saying. You could have just left
it out. You thought that he probably the motive was robbery.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
The defense said that there was a law that gave
Mahone the right to defend himself against improper advances by Dobbins,
And on the last day of the trial, the defense said,
give back this mother, her wonderful son, give back the
Air Force it's excellent soldier, and give back its young man,
this young man his future and self respect. The last
(38:35):
day of the trial, John Mahone did get on the
stand and testify on his on behalf, on his own behalf,
and he gave the same story that he originally gave
Detectives in front of an all male jury.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
On the third and last day of the trial, the
jury went off to determine a verdict, and after a
few hours the Joe basically ordered he charged the jury
We've talked about that before and demanded a decision before
he went home to sleep.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
Yeah, what's the what's the Reba McIntyre song?
Speaker 3 (39:14):
You got it right there, I got it right here,
I said, reminds me of the night the lights went
out in Georgia. Suppers waiting at home and I gotta
get to it. And it was about one o'clock in
the morning when this this verdict came in cold, and
I'm like, how about maybe you wanted them to deliberate
(39:38):
to get come to a conclusion because they've thoroughly looked
at everything.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
But maybe justice served that well.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
After the judge charged the jury eight minutes later, the
foreman delivered a verdict not guilty, You're kidding, and people
in the courtroom cheered. He was allowed to return home
with his family to celebrate Christmas in Michigan, and they
plan to leave Charleston immediately. There's a man whose named
(40:10):
Billy Camden. He was a friend of Jack's who later
went and I guess spoke it was like publishing a newspaper,
and he had his own opinions on this verdict, and he,
you know, he said, back then, the gay community didn't
get justice. We didn't expect it. Gay people were often
(40:31):
robbed and too embarrassed to report it, and if they did,
the person who was robbed was victimized again by the system.
And it's almost as if there's a belief that, well,
they kind of deserved it because of their lifestyle, which
is ridiculous. But Jack's mother, Alma Hendrix, she remained out
of the public eye following her son's death and after
(40:54):
the trial, but she did make one final effort to
preserve her son's memory and sorry, I flip because I
was looking at something else, that's all right. And on
January fifth, nineteen fifty nine, she filed an official application
(41:16):
for a military headstone for her son's grave in Spartanburg.
She said, despite every detail of his life scrutinized publicly,
Dobbin's military service was scarcely mentioned. His two tours of
duty in the Air Force during the Korean War were
a footnote in his own obituary, overshadowed by comments about
his flare for decorating.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
Yeah, what about him being a because we mentioned earlier
in the story, what about him being a clean cut airman? Yeah,
and him in were something higher rank.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
Well, and he was thirty, so he had been there longer.
He had been in the service longer. I think he
was out of it at this point. But you know,
the two of them started. That commonality was they both
were airmen.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Yeah. Wow.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
The coverage of the trial failed to mention Dobbin's service,
and even recent sympathetic accounts of the Candlestick murder have
overlooked his time in the Air Force, and as presented
to the world by a press and Mahone's attorney's Dobbins
was a sexual deviant, a man of abnormal desires. He
damned sure couldn't be a soldier.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
Oh he couldn't.
Speaker 3 (42:26):
So that's his mom's like, well, there's no way with
all these things that he could be a good soldier.
And he was, and she was able to get him
an official military headstone. This case is what I would
say is the precursor to the gay panic defense, which
(42:46):
was began to appear in courtrooms in the nineteen sixties.
So it was I mean, the trial was in fifty eight.
And the defense of the gay panic is that it
claims of victims real or perceived sexual orientation caused the
suspect to have a violent, panicky reaction, which can be
(43:09):
used to reduce criminal liability.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
Well, in this case, I mean just stating the president
that it's it. I mean, that's exactly what happened.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
Well, and as of twenty twenty one, twelve states in
the District of Columbia passed legislation banning the defense, but
it is still legal in other states.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
Really, and I.
Speaker 3 (43:35):
Have I kind of was like thinking, you know, do
I want to I kind of have a theory out
of you do I kind of have a theory a
little bit about what I think happened that night. I
think either something happened or.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Don't.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
I don't. I feel like it could have been like
something happened and he either felt like ashamed or guilt
because maybe that was something he wasn't ready to admit
to himself and instead of acknowledging that like took that
anger out on Jack because that has happened, or it
could have been for the purpose of he did set
him up to rob him and then was like, you know,
(44:14):
I didn't think it was gonna go thus far this fast,
But I just I don't. I don't completely buy the
self defense claim.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Not killing someone, but I mean man or woman, straight
or gay. You know, if if you feel like you're
being sexually assaulted, you should be able to defend yourself.
The part that that sticks out in my mind is that, Okay,
(44:45):
knock this guy unconscious. Now I'm gonna steal his stuff.
That's what I can't. I'm like, Okay, this is a
human being. Okay, maybe he made a sexual advance. You
didn't want you eliminated that so, but yet you had
to go even back upstairs again and take it stuff.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
Well, and then you're like, I fell it so threatened
he was coming after me, which I don't know, I'm
not I'm not saying this, but it's probably because like
the whole like the naked thing coming into play. I'm
just not thinking that you're like chasing after somebody. Yeah,
but I don't know. But it's just it's interesting to
me because I do feel like and like I wasn't there,
(45:27):
but I do feel like there was opportunities where he
probably could have left this situation without it ending the
way that it did. Right, But also not just the
importance of whether you think he's guilty or not. But
it comes back to this whole thing, like his mom said,
was he was more than just what he did that
most people would not be considered normal behavior. And he
(45:51):
was you know, he had friends, he was loved by
a lot of people, his family, and.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
He's a human being.
Speaker 3 (45:55):
Yeah, And he had you know, he got along with
a lot of people. He had an artistic ability, which
is something that not everybody has. Right, and you have
a gift, you use it. I don't think that that
should be used against you. But it kind of the
whole premise of all of it is, is it I
felt like he was put on trial, and his character
(46:18):
and his how he was as a person and who
he chose to love and be attracted to was more
important than putting on trial and holding responsible to a
person that killed him, right, And that's and that's where
the issue is, is understanding that it doesn't matter what
(46:38):
he liked, what he didn't like, who he was attracted to,
who he wasn't attracted to. At the end of the day,
it's like he was a person who had his life
taken away for no reason. And it's yeah, I don't
I know. And that still happens today where sometimes the victims,
they feel like the victim gets put on trial because
(46:58):
you're trying to tear them down and picked them apart
to prove this person's innocence. And I think that there's
such a better way to do it. But you know,
so it's unfortunate. Yeah, there was. He got off and
left the state, and you know, everybody in Charleston was
left to kind of pick up the pieces. I will
(47:20):
say this as a kind of last close out. There's
a woman who she curates. Her name is Mary Murphy.
She creates women's and gender non binary histories. But she's
completed programs, and she researched significant sites related to Charleston's
LB TQ history and going on a map out of
(47:41):
walking and she went on to map out of walking
tour of these important destinations and the chief stops among
them are Dobbin's home in the former site of Club
forty nine. All right, so it's something that's still you know,
talked about, remembered, important part of that kind of that
history in Charleston.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
Yeah, and if you want to take those tours, how
about it? Yeah, sounds interesting. But all right, well, Danielle,
like I said, that's what I've seen before we've had
on our radar for a little bit. I'm glad you
covered it well.
Speaker 3 (48:18):
I hope I did it service considering you knew about.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
It, you did before I did, and I learned a lot.
Your presentation was great. But thank you, Danielle. Thank you
for listening to Carolina Crimes this week. If you're not
already following us on social media, we'll get some pictures
from this episode put up on Carolina Crimes Facebook page. Yeah,
Carolina Crimes Podcast. That's facebook page, on Twitter at sc
(48:43):
Crimes pod. Also, if you're listening on Apple iTunes, Apple podcast.
There was a five star review mash that purple subscribe button.
Let us know a little something you like about the show,
and if you're looking to support the show and get
some sweet Carolina Crimes paraphernalia for your back, check out
Carolina crimestore dot com. Until next time, thank you for
(49:03):
listening to episode two forty four of Carolina Crimes
For over three hundred and fifty years, the state of
South Carolina has been the setting for some of the
most horrendous crimes ever committed. Some have gained global notoriety,
some have been forgotten, and others have been swept under
the rug completely. Now, two South Carolina natives and true
(00:26):
crime enthusiasts have teamed up to examine these heinous acts
in detail, giving their perspective of the evil that has
resided in the Palmetto State. You're listening to Carolina Crimes.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
And welcome back to Carolina Crimes, episode two forty four.
I'm one of your hosts, Matt Hyres, along.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
With Danielle Myers.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
We're over the moon thrilled that you joined us here
for this episode for the month of October. And thank
you so much for the feedback from life last week
about the episode highlighting the atrocities really at Bull Street
and at I don't want to paint a complete bleak picture.
(01:11):
I want to believe that some people were helped there.
We didn't even get into some of the criminals that
were housed there temporarily. Of course, Pee Week Gaskins went
there for psychiatric treatment. A lot of folks that we
had covered in our previous episodes had been there as well.
But I thank you all of you for reaching out
letting us know that you did like that episode. It
(01:34):
was it was something I'd want to do for a while. Yeah,
But before we get started this week, this is one
that I've kind of wanted to do for a while.
But Danielle, you took the reins on this and it's
a interesting story. It's fairly historic. I mean it goes
back quite a ways and happens in the Holy City. Yeah, Charleston.
(01:56):
I've read several articles about this. This is a one
that needs to be talked about for sure. But before
we get started, just a little bit of housekeeping. If
you're not already following us on social media, check us
out at Carolina Crimes Podcast, over on Facebook, on Twitter
at sc Crimes pod. If you're looking to support the
show and you're listening on Spotify, throw us a five
(02:17):
star review. Also over on Apple iTunes or Apple Podcasts,
throw us a five star review. Mash that purple subscribe
button and write a little something you like about the show.
And if you're looking for some sweet Carolina Crimes paraphernalia,
some hoodies caps Toboggans or Beanies or whatever you want
to call them. Check us out at Carolina crimesstore dot com.
(02:40):
Why are you mad dogging me?
Speaker 3 (02:42):
While I was reading that, I'm listening to you.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Okay, And that's why you're just staring a hole through me.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
It's just I'm just listening. It's just my face. I'm
not mad.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
You're weird. Thousand yards stay here, you know.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
What you Okay, I'm gonna play for the fireflies.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
That's right, that's right. Well, Danielle, as I mentioned, this
is going to be from Charleston, South Carolina. We have
covered the history of Charleston over and over again. We
could do an entire two hundred and forty four episode
podcast on the history of Charleston. Probably the most historic
city in our state. It is the oldest city in
(03:21):
our state. But this is one that kind of got
swept under the rug back in the day.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Yeah, So why.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Don't you go ahead and start us off and let
us know what we're gonna be talking about.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Well, you said, this is one you've been wanting to do.
This is one that I stumbled upon. I'd never heard
of it, and started looking into it a little bit further.
It was like, this one's pretty interesting. It's a little bit,
I think, a little bit different it is than what
we've covered in the past. And on top of that,
(03:55):
it kind of just happened where it takes place late
Halloween early the next morning, November first, Austin and his
All Saints Day. So I thought it was, you know,
perfect tie in to this time of year, like to
tell stories relevant to the spooky season, and you were
(04:16):
on board with that with your story last week, and
then now I'm doing this one, and yeah, it was.
It was an interesting one to research. There was a
good bit of stuff on it, considering it is older,
because I know that I've had trouble with that. The
Charleston City Paper did an article.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
They did a great job several years ago about.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
It, and I think they have some news articles we
can put up where they found him in the archives,
some pictures along with some other stuff. I think it
was kind of hard finding some of the victim and
suspect in this case, kind of hard finding those. But
I'll work on trying to get something out there for you.
But we'll start with yes, I'll work So if you've
(05:01):
ever been to Charleston, if you're from the area, you
are living the state, and you visited. Rainbow Row is
an infamous landmark that sits in downtown Charleston, and it's
consisting it consists of thirteen different buildings known for their
different pastel colors. And it's a place that's like the
(05:23):
I've heard it's like the most photographed area in Charleston.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
I'm sure it is, if not in the United States.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Really, and I know, and it sounds weird. It's just
a row of buildings, but it's been in paintings and
news articles, magazines. I mean, it's it's just it's a
It is a pretty area to see and it's a
predominant area.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Oh yes, yes, and you gotta you gotta pay a
pretty penny for those houses down there, and even costs
more than South of the Border. Ooh yeah, which is
up for sale.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
But we might have to stick with just buying South
of the Border.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yeah. One of my most cherished possessions, I think is
a full blown, like seven foot long cross ditch every
home on Rainbow Road. Aunt Robin did it really? She
passed away?
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Oh wow, I didn't know that.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
It took her a couple of years to do and yeah,
and she'd do it after work and it's it's framed,
it is, its beautiful. I just wish I had somewhere
big enough to put it. It's yeah, but you talk
about the fame of Rainbow Road, and that's what people
want to see when they go to Charleston. That's one
(06:36):
of the tourism landmarks. And our boy John Polk down
there at the Charleston Carriage Company, he takes takes tourists
by there every single day.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Well, I know I've always known about it, but I did,
like you say, throw it into my Google machine, because
I did want to know a little bit about it
as far as the history went. And there are a
few different versions as to why these houses or buildings
are painted these different colors. And one of them, which
is I think is pretty funny, is that it was
(07:07):
because the intoxicated sailors coming in from port could remember
which houses they were bumped in. Okay, I'm in the
yellow house.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I can see that.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
That makes sense. Easy landmark.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
I used to be able to maybe relate.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Yes, Another version is the color of the building determine
what the store was for. So this color sells this,
this color sells that, and it was for illiterate slaves,
so they knew which buildings to go into, okay, depending
on what they were looking for.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
So it makes sense.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
And it could be that. I don't know. I think
it's just one of those people. Over time, stuff develops.
But anyways, at the end of the row a street
over is the site of another historical home that was
built in eighteen thirty and it's a typical, pretty one
(08:04):
of the historic homes that you just no significance to it.
But it's just a pretty one of the pretty homes
down there, and it would also become the sight of
a brutal crime. On Saturday, November one, nineteen fifty eight,
Elizabeth Bryant arrived at fourteen Queen Street to perform her
(08:24):
weekly cleaning of the home. Just after eleven am. She
entered the home and walked into the living room, where
she noticed the body of a man lying on the couch.
He was nude, slumped over to the side, and his
face was covered in blood. Cradled in his arms was
(08:48):
a bloody bent candlestick. And this is I was telling you,
this is giving me clue vibes, you know, And that's
just what I think of because I don't think we've
covered this kind of weapon.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
We did, Oh, I think we did? I think yeah, one, Yes,
it was one of our earlier episodes about a young
lady in Columbia.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yes, I do remember that.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Now.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Elizabeth soon recognized the man as twenty nine year old
John Dobbins, and he went by Jack. So that's what
I'm going to refer to him, as he was the
homeowner and the man that she worked for. And she
immediately began screaming, which brought forth Jack's roommate from upstairs,
(09:39):
so there was somebody else that had been in the home.
And he then proceeded to call the police. Inside the home,
they noticed that the crime scene was weirdly orderly. There
were no signs of a struggle other than blood spattered
across the wall in the sofa. On the coffee table
(10:02):
were Jack's underwear, a pack of cigarettes, and two highball
glasses filled with bourbon. So everything that indicated that there
was some kind of intimate night, little hangout that had
occurred recently, and.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Obviously someone else was there. There's two glasses, and obviously
Jack didn't do this to himself with a candlestick.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
The rest of Jack's clothes were upstairs in his room,
along with the other candlestick that matched the one that
was in Jack's arms. These weren't just typical candlesticks. They
were brass heavy candlesticks probably, I mean give or take.
(10:48):
I looked it up because they could be about ten
pounds each, oh, so expensive, a lot of weight to it.
An autopsy was conducted did by Corner Jennings Catherine, and
it showed that Jack had been struck nine times by
the ear, resulting in the fracturing of his skull in
(11:10):
three places. They also determined that there were no signs
of struggle, there were no defensive wounds, and that this
looked like it was a surprise attack.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Wow, so.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
This is someone he knew. Obviously he had welcome and
welcomed this person into his home. So but with the
whole what I said is weirdly orderly. There wasn't It
didn't look like anybody had tried to ramsack the home,
steal anything, so it just seemed very personal. Well, the
(11:44):
only other person in the house at the time was
Jack's roommate, which was twenty five year old MUSC student
Edward Addy, And so police needed to see you know
where he was. You know, you've got your roommate deceased downstairs,
beaten to death. Yeah, you're upstairs asleep. Did this happen
(12:05):
and you did it? Or did you not hear anything?
Speaker 2 (12:09):
So why didn't you hear any? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (12:10):
And we and we need to we need to get
to the bottom of this. So Edward begins to lay
out what happened the previous evening on Halloween Night. He
tells them around six pm, him and Jack had dinner
and then the two of them, along with several of
their friends, went to a Halloween party at a Rutledge
Avenue apartment. Jack left the party around ten pm to
(12:36):
go ten bar at a place called Club forty nine
on King Street. He tended bar a few nights a
week to make a little extra money.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
And what time did he go to work?
Speaker 3 (12:47):
He left the party around ten pm, So this was
a place that stayed up in a little bit later.
The late night crowd and it being Halloween, they might
have stayed open a little bit later just because people
were out and about.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
That's time to start a shift.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
But yeah, martending, they've got weird hours, definitely. Edwards said
that he stayed at the party until around two am
when he left and went home. Well, Edward's alibi was
quickly verified and he was cleared as a suspect, which
seems weird. But now they're like, can't get tunnel vision.
(13:21):
We need to see what transpired after he left his
party and went to work. They looked at the one
place that Jack went to from the Halloween party, and
that was Club forty nine. Okay, so we're gonna take
our first short break and then we're gonna get into
a little bit of the back history of this club, Okay,
(13:46):
and what possibly happened.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
All right, Well, folks will be right back after this
quick word from our sponsors, Hi friends, Matt Hires Here.
One of my favorite parts of bringing you Carolina Crimes
each week is spotlighting the many wonderful towns and communities
(14:09):
within our great state. And today I'm proud to encourage
you all to check out one of my personal favorites.
Rather on a road trip or a weekend getaway, discover Mullins.
Once a vibrant depot town and the former tobacco capital
of South Carolina, Mullins is a hidden treasure in the
PD region. Explore our offerings by savoring a cup of
(14:31):
coffee at our delightful coffee shop, enjoying lunch at any
of our charming restaurants, visiting old Brick Square, and shopping
at our quaint retail stores, which include an antique market
located in a repurposed tobacco warehouse. Your visit would not
be complete without a stop at the South Carolina Tobacco Museum,
(14:52):
situated in the historic train depot in downtown Mullens, South Carolina.
Here you can explore various exhibits such as models of
tobacco plants at each growth stage, a blacksmith shop, a
log tobacco barn filled with cure tobacco, a farmhouse kitchen
showcasing vintage equipment, and a photo gallery highlighting contemporary tobacco practices.
(15:14):
The Mullins Room honors our town's origins and its swift
growth driven by the railroad and the tobacco industry. Additionally,
in late June twenty twenty five, the Reverend Daniel Simmons
Museum will open its doors to the public. Within the
Tobacco Museum, Reverend Simmons was one of the victims of
the Mother Emmanuel nine tragedy, and he spent his childhood
(15:36):
in Mullins and worked in its tobacco warehouses. Thanks to
a generous loan from his daughter Rose, we will exhibit
many of his personal belongings, including his beloved Bible. The
documentary of his life, One Last Breath, will be continuously
streamed in the museum. Rather it's for a road trip
or a weekend getaway, Mullins is a perfect place to
(15:59):
visit and a place to call home. Visit Mullins, South Carolina,
(16:20):
and welcome back to Carolina Crimes, Episode two forty four.
We're out of Charleston, South Carolina. And when we left off,
it's kind of like this clue like mystery. I mean,
there's a homeowner that has deceased, been struck with a
large candlestick nine times behind his ear, pair of underwear,
(16:44):
and a couple of glasses of bourbon, sitting out and
his roommate didn't hear a thing. So he described the
night as you said. He went out to eat, but
Jack and Edward Jack being deceased, and Jack then left dinner,
went to a Halloween party, and then went to a
(17:05):
moonlighting job bartending. Mm hmm, all right.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
At a place called Club forty nine. So before the
break said, I was going to give you a little
background on this place. In the nineteen fifties, being gay,
much less openly expressing it could be dangerous and if
you were ever seen at a place associated or known
as a gay bar, you could have major consequences. For
(17:32):
people who were in the military, teachers, government, or state
workers could lose their jobs if anybody found out that
they were possibly gay.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
And back then it was all legal.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Yes, so now you obviously can't do that, but so
everybody had to be discreet about how they went about
basically living their lives. And the Charleston community decided to
get creative with this and bars began creating bars that
catered to both straight and same sex couples. So I
(18:08):
guess you could say, well, there's straight people in here,
what do you mean this is a gay bar?
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Okay, So it was just kind of like we have.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
It's just a bar, Yeah, but it was there were
certain ones that it was known that that's where you
could go and be okay, but there just happened to
be some straight people there too, okay. So it was
known in the community which places you could be a
little bit more comfortable and kind of feel safe at
(18:38):
all right, and Club forty nine was no different where
they considered the front part of the bar or the
building was gay, the back was mixed with couples gay
or straight, okay, and then the upstairs was gambling and
all right. Though they offered a sort of affront, they
(19:00):
also didn't have an issue openly advertising themselves. There's a picture.
It looks like a match book. I'll put it up,
but they have it on this match book that they
advertised themselves as the gayest spot in town.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Okay. And I mean, I don't know the the time period,
but you talk about like Christmas songs and you know, hey,
yeah it was, and I think that was kind of
(19:35):
the vernacular back then, so it was probably a play
on words like.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
We're the happiest spot in town. They said, well, I
said an article an article they said. It was kind
of almost like a wink and a nudge to the
community to be like, you know, yeah, you see the
kind of place we are, like you picking up what
we're putting down. And there was speculation that Jack may
(20:01):
have also been a part of this community. He was known,
he did very well for himself. He wouldn't be known
to frequent art galleries. He loved to decorate. He was
a very nice dresser, so a lot of people and
he wasn't spotted with a lot of female companions, so
(20:22):
there were people who were like thinking that he might
be gay, but it was never fully verified because he
likes art. Yeah, okay, Well, Halloween night when he went
to go as you said, moonlight at the club forty nine,
he was tending bar and Jack began getting chummy with
(20:43):
one of the patrons that was sitting at the bar,
and after the club closed, the two left together. So
this seems to be the last person that Jack was
seen with alive, so they need to figure out who
this person. Doesn't get them identified. Well, news of this
(21:06):
murder began to spread around town and became known in
the papers as the Candlestick murder. This ended up helping
in the investigation, but not because it brought police new leads.
It actually brought police the killer himself. Really, a man
voluntarily surrendered himself and told police he was responsible for
(21:31):
the death of Jack Dobbins. He was an eighteen year
His name was he was eighteen years old, John Mahone,
and he was an airman who was stationed at the
Charleston Air Force Base. He proceeds to tell them that
Halloween night he went to Club forty nine and sat
(21:53):
at the bar. He was by himself and struck up
a conversation with Jack. Most people, you know, well they're
sitting at a bar, talk to bartender. Yeah, And the
two found a commonality as Jack had also served in
the Air Force. So Jack provided John with free beers
while he was working and they were talking, and after
(22:14):
the club closed, they decided, you know, to continue the
night and go to some other bars, and ended up
at a place called the Elbow Cocktail Bar around two am,
before leaving and going to another place called East Bay
Street Club, where John was denied entry because he failed
(22:35):
to meet the dress code, which I don't know what
it was, but they were like, nah.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
So and so John failed the eighteen year old Yes, okay.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Well that's when Jack decided the two head back to
his place. John said, He told him, come on, I
have better bourbon than this at my place, and with
it being late and John being short on cash, he agreed.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
It reminds me of a saying A used to use,
and you know, and be asked to maybe leave an
establishment or two, and I was like, well, I've been
kicked out away nicer places than this, Yeah, something like that.
I'm paraphrasing. I'm paraphrasing.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
I'm sure you're leaving out some words.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Well, once back at the house, John said that he
removed his jacket while Jack was in the kitchen making drinks,
and then the two sat down on the couch in
the kid living room and talked. John said that's when
he you know, he said, as soon as Jack sat down,
he put his hand on my shoulder and another on
my lap, and I got scared and I was uncomfortable,
(23:45):
and I told him I needed to use the bathroom.
And I don't know if there was in a bathroom downstairs,
but he went upstairs to John's Jack's bedroom to go
to the bathroom, okay, And he said he was in
there for about five minutes, trying to with an excuse
to leave, which is probably almost three four o'clock in
(24:06):
the morning. So I would be like, that's a good
enough one in my opinion.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Yeah, but I'm gonna call it a night dog, you know.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Yeah, like, hey, I just realized I didn't realize how
late it was. But he said that when he came
back into the living room from upstairs, he found Jack
standing in the living room completely nude. He said that
he then ran back upstairs, which is weird. Yeah, and
(24:35):
he thought Jack was following behind him, so he grabbed
the candlestick, one of the candlesticks from Jack's bedroom, and
he went to the bedroom door and looked down the
stairs but didn't see anyone. He then went down the
stairs and walked across the room, and he said Jack
(24:56):
grabbed him and that's when he proceeded to hit him
three or four times and ran out the door.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
So prior to this, he had the opportunity to run
out the door, but he ran upstairs.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
And like they say in horror movies, like don't run
up stairs just for the trap yourself. But it is
interesting that he I feel like there could have been
a moment of First of all, if you're completely naked,
you're more vulnerable. So I feel like you could be like, look,
I didn't sign up for this, I'm leaving, And yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Mean I don't know if I I don't know if
I want to get in a fight naked with anybody,
and I don't know if I definitely don't want to
fight anybody naked. That old adage you never start a
fight with a man in flip flops because he ain't
running anywhere. He's gonna stand his ground. But yeah, that's
(25:52):
what puzzles me is he had the opportunity to leave
and he ran upstairs, he said, according to.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Him, yeah, and he came out and looked around and
still didn't see him when he thought that he was
initially behind him. And he said that he hit him
three or four times and then left, but the autopsy
determined that there were about nine blows to the head.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
He tells them that he thought that he'd only knocked
Jack out, but that he later read in the paper
that he died and said that he couldn't go through
his life with that on his conscience. And according to him,
this was all an accident. He did not mean to
kill him. This was self defense. He was fearful and
(26:39):
that was his story.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Okay, so he was pleading self defense, I guess, yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Okay, Well, due to this confession, John was arrested and
officially charged with the murder of Jack Dobbins, and he
remained in custody until his trial, which would take place
just the following month.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Yeah, they were a lot quicker, a lot more I
don't want to say judicious, but they sped things along
back then.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
Yeah, a little more efficient. I don't know if that's
a good thing.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
We're not, but yeah, and lawyers would say no because
of billable hours and all that.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
So yeah, well we're going to take this last break
and then get into what transpired during this trial and
what the outcome was.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
All right, so folks will be right back after this
quick word from our sponsors, and welcome back to Carolina Crimes,
(27:58):
episode two forty four. And strangely, this murder at a
Queen Street address in Charleston, the killer actually came forward
and pled self defense. He thought there was some shenanigans
going on there he didn't want any part of, and
(28:18):
unwanted sexual advances by Jack Dobbins. So he came and
admitted and he said, hey, I read in the paper
that he died. I want to come forward. You know
it was me.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Which when you put something out there in the newspapers,
now it goes out on the news social media. You
think that it's going to drum up some leads where
they can say, oh, I saw these two and I
don't think that they ever expected that the killer himself
was just going to be like that was me, Yeah,
(28:49):
that's me. Well, like I said, the tribe began just
over a month later, and things were at the time
like they are now, where when something like this happens,
usually the person is found guilty or innocent in the
(29:10):
court of public opinion. Yeah, there are already people who
have that mindset before trial has even begun anything, any
testimony has been brought out. Newspapers were putting things in
the you know, out in articles about John Mahone saying,
you know, describing him as being clean cut, and you know,
(29:31):
just had a little bit of tidbits about Jack, saying
that he had no real girlfriend, he was a meticulous dresser,
he liked art and antiques, such as the prize candlestick
that he was killed with.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Okay, so they were the media was drawing their own narrative. Yeah,
kind of low key, but they were.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Yeah, and it's like, well, this guy has this kind
of way, but this guy is clean cut. He's in
the Air Force.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Yeah, he couldn't be at fault here.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
And it's just trying to get an understanding before anything
is even laid out well. The trial began on December
nineteen fifty eight, and it was a packed courtroom. This
was a spectacle. Everyone in town wanted to be there.
We've talked about that in the past, where you have
an influx of people who want to be there to
(30:24):
see how this is going to play out, to hear testimony,
and just you know, it's the hot the top of
the top of the town right well. During the trial,
Drawn dressed in his Air Force uniform and he kept
his hands tightly clasped in his lap. And on the
(30:45):
first day, five witnesses were called, one of them being
the housekeeper, Elizabeth Bryant, who spoke of the day that
she discovered Jack's body in the living room. The defense
cross examined and asked her if she ever noticed if
Jack had any female visitors, and she said no, but
(31:06):
sometimes the Citadel boys would come by, and the questioning
eventually led Bryant to reveal that Jack had lavender bed sheets,
whereas his roommate's sheets were yellow with white stripes. I'm
not even put in parentheses. I'm not really sure how
this is relevant. It's it's almost like his sexuality was
(31:31):
on trial versus his murder. It's like, we're proving that
he was a gay man and his sheets are lavenders
though exhibit one he didn't have girls over exhibit two,
and it's like, does.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
That mean you're gay? Purple sheets?
Speaker 3 (31:54):
I don't think so. I mean, I.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Was like, I.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Don't. I don't think so. But there were you know,
goes back to those gender norms of having people who
were like, well, guys like blue, girls like pink and purple,
you know, and if you go outside of that, you're weird,
wild and yeah, so this was brought up in trial.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
All right.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Well, the second the roommate, Edward was asked about his
relationship with Jack, and he said that they were on
good terms, didn't have any issues, but he did admit
that there were times where he considered moving out due
to Jack's questionable behavior and tendency toward abnormal behavior, which
(32:38):
I think is what they called it because I saw
it in a few articles abnormal behavior. So wow. The
second day of the trial, more witness witnesses were called,
specifically those that were associated with the various bars that
the two went after leaving Club forty nine, and one
of them was a man that was able to verify that, Yeah,
(33:00):
they didn't come in East Bay Street because street club,
because John didn't fit the dress code. They also questioned
two fellow airmen that said that they remembered when John
returned to base and he had with him a lighter,
a door key, a money clip, a silver nail file,
(33:23):
and twenty three dollars cash. And during the investment, how
do you know he's got all that in his pocket?
I guess he showed it to him because he was
talking to him, because and because he had also well.
They also noticed during the investigation, police looked at the
jack's clothes on his bedroom floor and his pants pockets
(33:44):
were empty. So they do believe that he did take
some stuff from him. But apparently these people knew about
it because he came back and like basically was like, man,
you won't believe what happened last night, and he's like,
I also told he also told him that he beat
up and used the gay slur and he took some
(34:05):
stuff from him, and I think I beat him up
real good. So there was never he indicated that this
is what happened. There was never any indication that he
killed him. He never said that.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
And I mean the way this is going. I hate
like interjecting on his behalf. But he might not have
known that he killed him, but still he robbed him
and committed an assault.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Yeah, all right, Well, during the trial it was published.
You know, when trials are happening, there are people who
were they were constantly reporting on it and talking about
what happened that day, people's opinions. And there was an
anonymous reporter that said it was never satisfactorily explained during
(34:47):
the trial what the airmen talking about John.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Was doing, not the defendant, but the airmen.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
Yeah, the airmen.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
I see what you're doing there.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
I see you. But he said, but this person's actually
on Jack's side where he says it was never satisfactorily
explained during the trial what the airman was doing in
the downtown Charleston bar rooms late at night, dressed in
dungarees and a leather jacket, the costume favored by male
prostitutes on the make. So it sounds like this guy
(35:23):
jeans I guess so, and he's making implications that this
guy was up. Was what was he doing hanging out
at these places?
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (35:34):
Dressed in this wear that is known to male prostitutes.
Who were looking, you know, for trolling. Yeah, John's no
pun intended.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
I'm learning a lot here. I am too learning the
leather jackets, jeans and purple sheets.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
You have to go home room take stock of inventory
in your house.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
I mean, I'm good with who I know, who I am,
but man, this is all new to me.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
But this also goes back to this, Yeah, and this
narrative of what makes you gay, what makes you straight
and understanding. That's right.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Leather jackets here, yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Call it. You're don't try to You're not gonna pull
the wool.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Everything dies you are.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
There were also articles that alluded to Jack's sexuality and
described him as a man of many hobbies but apparently
dedicated to none. He was a favorite of the neighborhood children,
and one of the things they said was Halloween night
he did he got candy for trigger treaters. He did
like to do stuff like that. So he was, you know,
love in the community, okay, and an admirer of fine paintings,
(36:50):
with a flair for artistic home furnishings. And it's just
a lot of irrelevancy, I think.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
But kind of dang man, you take a personal.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
Inventory, that's like this story is attacking me.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Yeah, yeah, wow.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Well several times during the trial, people would laugh or clap,
depending on what was being talked about, and the judge
would have to call everything to.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Order, laughing lass guy's dead.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
That's the thing is, this was not taking this was
reading this. It was not taken seriously like it should have,
because people were like, well, we think that he's a
certain way, so it shouldn't be taken as seriously, which
doesn't make it.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Basically he was saying he's a second class citizen because yeah, okay.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
The prosecuted attorney argued that John set up the events
that night that led to the slagh of Dobbins, and
that robbery was the prime motive because thieves often prey
upon persons of abnormal behavior to get money. I thought
that was interesting, I was like the prosecuting attorney. I
(37:57):
was like, you're arguing for me because I was killed.
Not sure I completely like the way that stated, but
I get what you're saying. You could have just left
it out. You thought that he probably the motive was robbery.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
The defense said that there was a law that gave
Mahone the right to defend himself against improper advances by Dobbins,
And on the last day of the trial, the defense said,
give back this mother, her wonderful son, give back the
Air Force it's excellent soldier, and give back its young man,
this young man his future and self respect. The last
(38:35):
day of the trial, John Mahone did get on the
stand and testify on his on behalf, on his own behalf,
and he gave the same story that he originally gave
Detectives in front of an all male jury.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
On the third and last day of the trial, the
jury went off to determine a verdict, and after a
few hours the Joe basically ordered he charged the jury
We've talked about that before and demanded a decision before
he went home to sleep.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
Yeah, what's the what's the Reba McIntyre song?
Speaker 3 (39:14):
You got it right there, I got it right here,
I said, reminds me of the night the lights went
out in Georgia. Suppers waiting at home and I gotta
get to it. And it was about one o'clock in
the morning when this this verdict came in cold, and
I'm like, how about maybe you wanted them to deliberate
(39:38):
to get come to a conclusion because they've thoroughly looked
at everything.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
But maybe justice served that well.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
After the judge charged the jury eight minutes later, the
foreman delivered a verdict not guilty, You're kidding, and people
in the courtroom cheered. He was allowed to return home
with his family to celebrate Christmas in Michigan, and they
plan to leave Charleston immediately. There's a man whose named
(40:10):
Billy Camden. He was a friend of Jack's who later
went and I guess spoke it was like publishing a newspaper,
and he had his own opinions on this verdict, and he,
you know, he said, back then, the gay community didn't
get justice. We didn't expect it. Gay people were often
(40:31):
robbed and too embarrassed to report it, and if they did,
the person who was robbed was victimized again by the system.
And it's almost as if there's a belief that, well,
they kind of deserved it because of their lifestyle, which
is ridiculous. But Jack's mother, Alma Hendrix, she remained out
of the public eye following her son's death and after
(40:54):
the trial, but she did make one final effort to
preserve her son's memory and sorry, I flip because I
was looking at something else, that's all right. And on
January fifth, nineteen fifty nine, she filed an official application
(41:16):
for a military headstone for her son's grave in Spartanburg.
She said, despite every detail of his life scrutinized publicly,
Dobbin's military service was scarcely mentioned. His two tours of
duty in the Air Force during the Korean War were
a footnote in his own obituary, overshadowed by comments about
his flare for decorating.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
Yeah, what about him being a because we mentioned earlier
in the story, what about him being a clean cut airman? Yeah,
and him in were something higher rank.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
Well, and he was thirty, so he had been there longer.
He had been in the service longer. I think he
was out of it at this point. But you know,
the two of them started. That commonality was they both
were airmen.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Yeah. Wow.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
The coverage of the trial failed to mention Dobbin's service,
and even recent sympathetic accounts of the Candlestick murder have
overlooked his time in the Air Force, and as presented
to the world by a press and Mahone's attorney's Dobbins
was a sexual deviant, a man of abnormal desires. He
damned sure couldn't be a soldier.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
Oh he couldn't.
Speaker 3 (42:26):
So that's his mom's like, well, there's no way with
all these things that he could be a good soldier.
And he was, and she was able to get him
an official military headstone. This case is what I would
say is the precursor to the gay panic defense, which
(42:46):
was began to appear in courtrooms in the nineteen sixties.
So it was I mean, the trial was in fifty eight.
And the defense of the gay panic is that it
claims of victims real or perceived sexual orientation caused the
suspect to have a violent, panicky reaction, which can be
(43:09):
used to reduce criminal liability.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
Well, in this case, I mean just stating the president
that it's it. I mean, that's exactly what happened.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
Well, and as of twenty twenty one, twelve states in
the District of Columbia passed legislation banning the defense, but
it is still legal in other states.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
Really, and I.
Speaker 3 (43:35):
Have I kind of was like thinking, you know, do
I want to I kind of have a theory out
of you do I kind of have a theory a
little bit about what I think happened that night. I
think either something happened or.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Don't.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
I don't. I feel like it could have been like
something happened and he either felt like ashamed or guilt
because maybe that was something he wasn't ready to admit
to himself and instead of acknowledging that like took that
anger out on Jack because that has happened, or it
could have been for the purpose of he did set
him up to rob him and then was like, you know,
(44:14):
I didn't think it was gonna go thus far this fast,
But I just I don't. I don't completely buy the
self defense claim.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Not killing someone, but I mean man or woman, straight
or gay. You know, if if you feel like you're
being sexually assaulted, you should be able to defend yourself.
The part that that sticks out in my mind is that, Okay,
(44:45):
knock this guy unconscious. Now I'm gonna steal his stuff.
That's what I can't. I'm like, Okay, this is a
human being. Okay, maybe he made a sexual advance. You
didn't want you eliminated that so, but yet you had
to go even back upstairs again and take it stuff.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
Well, and then you're like, I fell it so threatened
he was coming after me, which I don't know, I'm
not I'm not saying this, but it's probably because like
the whole like the naked thing coming into play. I'm
just not thinking that you're like chasing after somebody. Yeah,
but I don't know. But it's just it's interesting to
me because I do feel like and like I wasn't there,
(45:27):
but I do feel like there was opportunities where he
probably could have left this situation without it ending the
way that it did. Right, But also not just the
importance of whether you think he's guilty or not. But
it comes back to this whole thing, like his mom said,
was he was more than just what he did that
most people would not be considered normal behavior. And he
(45:51):
was you know, he had friends, he was loved by
a lot of people, his family, and.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
He's a human being.
Speaker 3 (45:55):
Yeah, And he had you know, he got along with
a lot of people. He had an artistic ability, which
is something that not everybody has. Right, and you have
a gift, you use it. I don't think that that
should be used against you. But it kind of the
whole premise of all of it is, is it I
felt like he was put on trial, and his character
(46:18):
and his how he was as a person and who
he chose to love and be attracted to was more
important than putting on trial and holding responsible to a
person that killed him, right, And that's and that's where
the issue is, is understanding that it doesn't matter what
(46:38):
he liked, what he didn't like, who he was attracted to,
who he wasn't attracted to. At the end of the day,
it's like he was a person who had his life
taken away for no reason. And it's yeah, I don't
I know. And that still happens today where sometimes the victims,
they feel like the victim gets put on trial because
(46:58):
you're trying to tear them down and picked them apart
to prove this person's innocence. And I think that there's
such a better way to do it. But you know,
so it's unfortunate. Yeah, there was. He got off and
left the state, and you know, everybody in Charleston was
left to kind of pick up the pieces. I will
(47:20):
say this as a kind of last close out. There's
a woman who she curates. Her name is Mary Murphy.
She creates women's and gender non binary histories. But she's
completed programs, and she researched significant sites related to Charleston's
LB TQ history and going on a map out of
(47:41):
walking and she went on to map out of walking
tour of these important destinations and the chief stops among
them are Dobbin's home in the former site of Club
forty nine. All right, so it's something that's still you know,
talked about, remembered, important part of that kind of that
history in Charleston.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
Yeah, and if you want to take those tours, how
about it? Yeah, sounds interesting. But all right, well, Danielle,
like I said, that's what I've seen before we've had
on our radar for a little bit. I'm glad you
covered it well.
Speaker 3 (48:18):
I hope I did it service considering you knew about.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
It, you did before I did, and I learned a lot.
Your presentation was great. But thank you, Danielle. Thank you
for listening to Carolina Crimes this week. If you're not
already following us on social media, we'll get some pictures
from this episode put up on Carolina Crimes Facebook page. Yeah,
Carolina Crimes Podcast. That's facebook page, on Twitter at sc
(48:43):
Crimes pod. Also, if you're listening on Apple iTunes, Apple podcast.
There was a five star review mash that purple subscribe button.
Let us know a little something you like about the show,
and if you're looking to support the show and get
some sweet Carolina Crimes paraphernalia for your back, check out
Carolina crimestore dot com. Until next time, thank you for
(49:03):
listening to episode two forty four of Carolina Crimes
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