FROM HELL (2001) Podcast/Discussion

This week we have a look at the 2001 film From Hell.  This is Episode #467! From Hell is a 2001 mystery horror thriller film directed by the Hughes Brothers and written by Terry Hayes and Rafael Yglesias and based on the graphic novel of the same name by Alan Moore and Eddie Campbell about the Jack the Ripper murders. The film stars Johnny Depp as Frederick Abberline, the lead investigator of the murders, and Heather Graham as Mary Kelly, a prostitute targeted by the Ripper. Other cast members include Ian Holm, Robbie Coltrane, Ian Richardson and Jason Flemyng. From Hell was theatrically released in the United States on October 19, 2001, by 20th Century Fox. The film grossed over $74 million worldwide.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/castle-of-horror-podcast--4268760/support.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to Castle of Horror, the show dedicated
to horror movies and awesomeness. We are a feed spot
top one hundred horror podcast, and this week we have
a look at the two thousand and one film from Hell.
This is episode four hundred and sixty seven. Bear in
mind if you haven't seen today's movie, we're going to
be talking about it from the perspective of horror fans
who have seen it, So warning spoilers ahead. From Denver, Colorado,

(00:30):
I'm your host, Jason Henderson, publisher at castle Bridge Media,
home of the Castle of Horror anthology. With me from
Austin is mister Drew Edwards. He is the writer creator
of the long running underground comic Halloween Man, which you
can find at Global Comics. He is a Best Writer
RINGO nominee, Austin Chronicle Best of Austin Award winner and
a member of the Pen America Fellowship.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
So heillo, Drew, yours truly, Jack the Ripper.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
None of those letters were from Jack the Ripper is
that is actually very much still up in debate, but
we should say that all right, we shall get to it.
And finally, also in Denver, color commentary from Julia Gusman,
who was on Univision Today a couple times and quoted
in the Denver Post. She is the chair of the

(01:19):
American Immigration Lawyers Association of Colorado.

Speaker 3 (01:22):
Say hello, Julia, Hello, and shout out to my fellow
immigration attorney colleagues who I told about this podcast last
weekend in Boston, who may or may not be listening today.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
All right. Tony Savadio, by the way, is attending the
Fantastic Fast Genre Film Festival in Austin for Castle Bridge Media.
So it is just the three of us, which means
we should go twenty five percent faster.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
It will be cozy. It'll be cozy, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
From Hell As a two thousand and one mystery horror
thriller film directed by the Hughes Brothers, written by Terry
Hayes and Rafaela Glace, is based on the graphic novel
the same name by Alan Moore and Eddie Campbell about
the Jack the Ripper murders. This is so interesting to
talk about. Kim Newman called this film this film almost

(02:14):
a remake of Murder by Decree, which I had exactly
the same thought as I was watching it. The film
stars Johnny Depp as Frederick Aberlein, the lead investigator of
the murders, Heather Graham as the remarkably beautiful Mary Kelly,
prostitute targeted by the ripper. Other cast members included Ian Holme,
Robbie Coltrane, Ian Richardson, who himself played Charlock Combs in

(02:38):
probably one of my favorite Charlock Combs was Ian Richardson
and Jason Fleming. It came out October nineteenth, twenty and
one from twentieth Century Fox. Engrossed about seventy four million
dollars against a budget of like thirty four So in theory,
that's a hit. All right, Let's get our opening thoughts. Julia,

(02:59):
you chose this movie because you have a saucy, bloody
taste in film, and I can't wait to hear your
opening thoughts.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
I chose it because I like Johnny Depp, even though
he's not the nicest human being in real life sometimes,
but I do like coecting. I think it's a very
dark film. I don't I feel like I was more
depressed watching this, and I have been watching almost any
of the other films that we've done in the last

(03:28):
few years. Because it's based in reality. And it's a
really dark, horrible reality, not just the murders, but the
time period and the way like that, the you know,
the lives of these people that they're portraying, even if
not all of it is obviously based in reality, it's
it's it's a time that existed, and it's and and

(03:50):
people still have lives very similar to the lives of
these the people in this film. You know, people who
are very impoverished and having to do sex work, or
addicted to drugs or all kinds of things that are
portraying this film that just you know, it's just real
and it's hard. It's really hard to watch and think
about and so interested to have the conversation because there's

(04:14):
a lot there. But as the film goes, it is
well done. I mean, it's not the best film we've
ever done, but it's well done. Definitely Barry Gory, which
of course I don't love, but honestly, it could have
been a lot worse because that they do cut away
from a lot of the things that are the worst things.
But it's very violent. It's good looking, like I think

(04:37):
they did a great job with the sets and the costumes,
and the performances are excellent.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
Fantastic Drew what about You?

Speaker 2 (04:44):
So I would call this almost the first of all
yes to the murder by decree thing, which to me,
murder by decree might be by decree might be the
best Jack the Ripper movie ever made, even though it
it's Jack the Ripper against Sherlock Holmes, which of course
is of course completely fanciful. But I think that I

(05:09):
would almost call this historical fantasy because of the addition
of Aberlene the investigator being psychic, which is almost There's
a lot that I don't want to make my opening
thoughts like an entire I think I had a lot
of weird, dark nostalgia watching this because when I was

(05:32):
in junior high I actually went through a phase where
I was kind of obsessed with the Jack the Ripper murders,
and I read a lot of books on the subject,
and I watched a lot of movies about it, and
so this kind of reopened that particular interest. Because I'm

(05:53):
not a true crime person by nature, but something about
the unsolved nature of the crime, plus the fact that
it's so long ago now makes it a little more
palatable to me. But I think this movie is not
a very good adaptation of the comic. The comic has

(06:15):
very different First of all, a comic is not a mystery.
In fact, the most covers of it have Jack the
Ripper revealed on the cover, so it's more interested in
sort of occultism and class struggle and the cross section

(06:35):
of that. This is actually among the better Jack the
Ripper movies if you take it on its own merits
and kind of not think about the comic book while
watching it, because I think if you think about the
comic book, you're going to get your eyes crossed. That
being said, I watched the nineteen eighty eight Jack the

(06:58):
Ripper TV mini series, which is yeah on to B
which was the thing that kind of sparked my interest
in Jack the Ripper to begin with, and I think
even though that one isn't as lush or ambitious as this,
I actually think I prefer that to this in some ways.

(07:22):
But this is this is a pretty good movie. It
takes a lot of liberties with the actual crimes and dates,
and you know, it's it is very much rooted in
a conspiracy theory that has now been pretty thoroughly debunked,
which I'm sure we'll get more into later. But I
think if you yeah, I think if you get into

(07:47):
you just take this movie on its own merits. It's
very energy, it's very enjoyable. All the performances are good.
As Julia said, the costumes and sets are great, and
it's it's it is depressed because like we are also
entering yet another period, a very deep class struggle, and
so I think a lot of the themes in this movie, unfortunately,

(08:10):
are going to resonate pretty deeply right now. But yeah,
I do think it's a good movie, and in fact,
I think it's probably better than I remembered it, because
when I first saw it, you know, when I was
in my twenties, I just was kind of pissed off
that it wasn't more like the comic book. And now
with time, I think I've just kind of learned to

(08:32):
appreciate it as more of its own thing that happens
to share a title with the comic book. Anyway, that's
my long winded opening thoughts.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
That's really cool. There's so much here to discuss that
I want to get into, and I think where we
should start is with the theory. This is a spoiler podcast,
so we're going to start at the top with this
film is a mystery. So we're going to start with
spoiling the mystery, because the key to any Ripper movie

(09:07):
is what is the what is its theory? Unless it's
a case where the Ripper shows up as one of
several characters, like in the wax Museum movie with Raymonland
Terror in the wax Museum where the Rippers back or
so forth. But this one is about trying to figure
out who the Ripper is a lot of those are
so Murder by Decree in nineteen seventy eight. That was

(09:28):
a Tarlack Combs movie with James Mason, and.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
Of one of two movies where they pit Jack the
Ripper against Sherila Combs.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
Ah. Interesting, I did not know that. I haven't, So
what's the other one?

Speaker 2 (09:44):
The excellent although much more Hammer Horror vibed a study
in Terror Okay, which is on to B. If you
care to watch that back to back with Murder by Decree, I'll.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
Definitely check it out.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
So Murder B.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
I love that movie. It has exactly the same the
same theory as this movie. So, Drew, you're a big
theory fan, so start with the theory that is put
forth by this film. And tell us where it ranks
today in terms of likelihood among the scholars.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
I suppose, So I would call myself a retiree in
terms of Jack the Ripper theory. But I did read
the book when I was a teenager that this is
all coming from. There is a book that came out
in the seventies called Jack the Ripper The Final Solution,

(10:37):
and the theory that it put forth is that the
Queen's physician, Sir William Gall, was Jack the Ripper, and
that he was killing these as they called them in
the film Unfortunate Women to cover up the fact that
Prince Albert, the Queen's grandson, had married a woman, not

(11:00):
only a woman from the lower classes, but fathered a
child with her and gotten married in a Catholic ceremony,
and of course the royal family is Protestant, so that
would have been controversial on multiple levels. And that in
a masionic as in Freemason, a cult ritual, Sir William

(11:22):
Gall went about dispatching these these women in a in
brutal fashion, becoming the serial killer that we now know
as Jack the Ripper. Now, this was a popular theory
for decades. It was used in murder by decree. It

(11:44):
was used again in the Jack the Ripper miniseries that
I just mentioned, and it was used in the comic
book version of From Hell, which was in turn turned
into this film. Even though Alan Moore himself says that
he does not personally believe it, He just he just

(12:04):
he thought it was the most interesting thing narratively, and
he was interesting interested in talking about class struggle in England.
So it works. But these days not many people really
believe that goal was was the Ripper. For one, he
was in his seventies at the time. He was recovering

(12:27):
from a stroke, so he probably did not have the
necessary physical attributes to perform these these very athletic disassemblies
of human bodies. For lack of a better term. Prince
Albert uh the timeline doesn't necessarily sync up with him

(12:51):
being the father of Ann Crook was a real person.
She did have a baby named Alice. It does not
really match up very well with the Prince being the
father of her child. So this is just a lot
of you know, there's a lot of stuff here that

(13:14):
just doesn't add up when you start putting modern scrutiny
over it. Even though it is an interesting theory because
you know, obviously a lot of people have expressed the
idea that the way these bodies were accected that it's
probably somebody with at least a rudimentary knowledge of anatomy.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
So not everybody, not everybody does.

Speaker 2 (13:39):
Not everybody does, and there's plenty of people who, you know,
at the even at the time, thought it might have
been a butcher or you know, a fishmonger or something
like that.

Speaker 3 (13:51):
But well, and that's still one of the favorite theories
is that it's a barber. So there's basically two two
favorite theories that are are currently you know, currently in
favor as opposed to what was done.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
So before you tell another, okay, so let's let's let's
label the one we just mentioned, the one used in
here is a royal Masonic conspiracy. I think it's an
illegitimate child of.

Speaker 3 (14:19):
The royal Catholic child God forbid.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
Yes, And so that's so that's one thing, by the way,
that's a great the reason. That's a great theory. I
don't I'm like Alan Moore, like I would use it
because I don't care whether or not true. It's great.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
Well, I have I I you know, I have started
thinking a lot about William gall and how if you
could stick him in a time machine and bring him
to twenty twenty five, how like, because I started reading
up on the real guy, and how like how he
was one of the people that was actually instrumental into
getting women into medicine and things like that, and how

(14:58):
it would probably horrify him to know that history remembers
him as possible as Jack is Jack that well, I
would say a lot of people believe that he's Jack
the Ripper because it's it's the most common theory in
pop culture.

Speaker 1 (15:15):
That's interesting, Okay, all right, so that's one theory. Uh
Now I read that if I could, if I can
throw out this one because I had such a good
time reading this, although apparently nobody takes it seriously. But
Patricia Cornwell wrote a book and it was one of
many that said that Walter that I think it's Walter

(15:35):
Sickert the painter. Her theory is that Siicret was Jack
the Ripper, and and because he because he was fascinated
by Jack the Ripper, and he painted several paintings inspired
by Jack the Ripper, and it was a very very
interesting painter. And he painted these these phantasmagoric sort of visions,
and he had one called the Ripper's Back Bedroom and

(15:56):
stuff like that. But her, her theory the case was
entirely circumstantial. It was just doesn't this guy seem like
like he maybe could have been Jack the Ripper?

Speaker 2 (16:06):
You know?

Speaker 1 (16:06):
And And what I loved when I read her book
about it, I think it was called Case Closed, was
she spends all of this time explaining just the daily
life in London in the time of the Ripper, like
what these women's lives are like that there's like twelve
we were looking up the numbers, like twelve hundred prostitutes
in London at the time. They are very poor. They're

(16:29):
spending most of their evening trying to earn enough money
to find a place to sleep for a couple of
hours before heading back out into the into the day.
It's a day by day substance subsistence living.

Speaker 3 (16:42):
And we're going to get into that whole thing more,
but I want to keep staying on this right now.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
So anyway, her theory, her theory is that Sickert was
the Ripper, and and it just it was a very
very good read. She says also that he moved to
the United States, and that's why the ripper stopped.

Speaker 3 (16:59):
Was that, so okay, so can I do mine now?
So my there's two that I know about then. So
one is that doctor Francis Tumblety or when he's not
really doctor, who's like a quack doctor, but that he
considered himself doctor. He was from America, so when you
talk about moving to America the time, the dates line
up with him showing up in England and then leaving

(17:21):
like as far as when it is. And he liked
to have parties where he showed off these jars of
women's body parts, including like uterists and stuff. So he's
like one of the favorites. And then the other one,
it's that's even more favorite. It's more favorite, like Brian
Migin says, is that Jack Rivers Aaron Kosminski, a polished

(17:41):
immigrant and barber who was living in London's time, and
with him there's like a DNA match mitochondrial DNA match
from a shawl that matches relatives of his and so
that's that's another one that people have really become, although.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
In the last year or so there's been a lot
of people that have started the Poe Holls and and
that even and you know, there's even crazier theories about
who the Jack the Ripper was, Like there's there's some
that finger Lewis Carroll of all people, or or I
forget his first name, but but William Churchill's father, who

(18:22):
was also a freemason, is another out there suspect. You know,
you know, here's here's the thing. Unfortunately, for the women
that were killed, we're never gonna know. And you know,
like like I I at least not for certain, you know,
like I I don't think that there's ever going to

(18:42):
be a point where this is going to be like, yes,
we've solved it. This is one hundred percent sure who
this this is.

Speaker 3 (18:49):
Yeah, lest find that like a confession book somewhere where
all these.

Speaker 2 (18:52):
Kids, I mean, there was that suppose that there was
that supposed diary of Jack the Ripper, and even that,
you know, like you know, the you would have to
you would have to not only find something, but prove it.
And you know, and I think the reason why movies
like this and why Murdered by Decree I think about
this every time I watch Murder by Decree is that

(19:14):
we hate that this guy is going to go unpunished.
We hate we hate it.

Speaker 3 (19:20):
Well, I mean it's just he's dead, so it doesn't.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
Well yeah, but that's that's even went it most likely
never got caught and just went about his life, maybe
even killing other people in other countries or other you know,
like and I mean that's why we even summon up
fictional heroes like Sherlock, Like is like, well, Jack the

(19:43):
Ripper can't elude Sherlock Holmes. You know that, you know
that that's that's where we're at. I think that, you know,
like there's a deep seated part of our psyche. You know,
there's the morbid fascination of course with like the death
and like also wondering, you know, but what could make someone
sick enough to dissect bodies like this? But then there's

(20:05):
the other part where it's like we want to solve this,
we want justice, we want something to happen, you know,
and you know this movie doesn't quite give you that,
but it gives you at least a little bit. With
Gall getting basically an ice pick lobotomy. Of course, uh,

(20:32):
that's a complete fabrication. That's not how Goal spent his
last years, But you know that's I think you know
something that we want. We want to see Jack the
Ripper punished. Basically, we want justice, like we want something
to be done retroactively, so we create fiction that allows

(20:54):
that to happen.

Speaker 3 (20:55):
I agree, yeah, well, but it's gonna I was also
gonna throw out another one, which was because you the
thing about the diary and then you're talking about Schrlock Colms.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
The J.

Speaker 3 (21:03):
Holmes is the other one that was not but not
a favorite, but it is one of the ones where
people say that he was in London around eighteen eighty
eight and he was one that his great great grandson.
So there was a diary suggesting that he was the
did the Ripper murders using an assistant, and there was
you know, there were the Chicago murders.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
There was also I can't remember the guy's name, but
there was also another murderer that apparently shouted I am
Jack the Ripper as as being hung and you know,
for for other murders and you know who you know,
I I I forget. There's there's some inconsistencies with that.
So the guy I'm talking about probably wasn't Jack the Ripper,

(21:48):
but and again we'll never know for sure. You know,
like the h Holmes thing is a romantic notion that
doesn't really hold up to two close scrutiny, but you know,
it is a fun idea. I wanted to well, I
kind of like the idea of Lewis Carroll. Somebody should

(22:08):
make that into a movie.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
You know, it's a difference of twenty four years, but
you're really tempted to get to get them on the Titanic, right,
I mean, you know it's like twenty four years. That's
that's from here to two thousand and one. When you
think about it, it's not that bad. But yeah, if
you're young enough, you could like lay off for twenty
four years and then be on the Titanic and then

(22:33):
go down with the Titanic, provided you don't get on
one of the boats.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
Well, you know, a serial killer always goes down with
the ship or something.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
Or or pretends to. It's a way that you can
make your identity go away. You know, you ever wonder
how many people just erase their own identities at the
bottom of the ocean with the Titanic.

Speaker 3 (22:53):
I know, people I erase other people's identities bottoms of
devotions all the time. That's that's common common. I come
in true crime things people going out on boats and
not coming back, not coming back very good. So I
did want Yeah, I wanted to talk some more though,
because you're talking about the you know, the sex workers,

(23:15):
and so I did want to talk some more about
that because.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
That, yeah, starting with them.

Speaker 3 (23:21):
Yeah, well, I mean that was so there's I have
so much to say about this, and I don't even
know where to start the fact it's, like I said,
I have so much to say about it. The fact
that women, especially back then but even now to a
great extent, have to depend on men a lot of
times for their livelihood. Nowadays, you know, women can work,

(23:43):
but still if they have if there's if they have
small children, they're still expected to be the caregiver for
the child. And so if you have like a single
mother of a small child, it's really hard for her
to to find, you know, to be able to afford
she doesn't have She's not and have a high paying
job for her to be able to afford childcare. So
then it's like she's just either you know, trying to

(24:06):
get somebody to watch her child for free, or spending
all her money on childcare and living in very impoversyed circumstances,
and so she often, you know, women are relying mothers
are relying on men to help pay the bills so
or at least help take care of the kid. And
so back then, the women didn't have the career options

(24:30):
you know that we have now, and so they would
get stuck either like having to have a man take
care of them, or they could maybe be a nurse
or I think a teacher, some kind of childcare, but
that's pretty much it. Like there wasn't a lot more else.
And so if you were not of middle or upper
class and you can't you know, you can't afford to

(24:52):
run a shop or anything like that, then this was
often the only options they had. And then not only
are they having to sell their bodies, but they're being
abused by people, obviously in some cases being murdered, and uh,
you know, these the pimps are taking advantage of them,
just whoever wants to takes advantage of them. And it's
just it's so heartbreaking to me, and it's it continues

(25:15):
to be like that. Anybody who and especially you know,
if you have an addiction or something like that, so
that you're not able to hold a steady job because
of you know, you're not able to be reliable for
that that job, you end up being on the streets.
I don't know. I mean, I'm talking about things I'm
not I haven't had experience with. But it seems to
me that it's a really really hard life for at

(25:37):
least most of the people, and it's just so heartbreaking
to me. And then on top of that, in this film,
it bothered me a lot that the that the gay
character is sort of the mean, the mean sex worker.
Like I's just kind of like, really, why do we
have to have herbie, you know, the bitch of the group?
I don't know, So that kind of bug a bunch
of a lot of a lot of things bothered me.

(25:58):
Not necessarily that would.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
That fills very much of like the sort of two
thousand and one like level of Okay, we're liberal enough
to have a gay character, but we're going to make
her stereotypical and awful.

Speaker 3 (26:18):
It's like, yeah, you have to kill your gaze, as
they say.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
Well, and there's also no evidence of this woman in
real life being a lesbian, so like it's it's it's complete,
you know, a complete fabrication. So they didn't necessarily have.

Speaker 1 (26:37):
To do her so dirty, and she's the jerk as well.
Like that, both of those get you know, if you
think of if I think if the movie had been European,
that wouldn't necessarily been the case.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
Oh, I think you're absolutely right.

Speaker 1 (26:51):
This has been a Spanish movie. It just wouldn't mean
any girl.

Speaker 3 (26:54):
The French girl that's completely made up for this film
is nice and she seems to be a lesbian, but
she's my very minor character, I do, I will say,
just as far.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
As she also she also is there to die.

Speaker 3 (27:08):
Yes, well that's what I was gonna say. I do
like as far as the you know, we we'll talk
some more about the other things that are completely made
up for this film, as we have already. But I
do love that they invent this character just so that
we can have a fantasy that Mary Kelly survives and
raises Alice. I think that's I kind of love that.
I like a happy ending, So that made me happy the.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
Invent a version of Mary Kelly that we get into
all of these all of these are invented characters with
historical names.

Speaker 3 (27:36):
Well, and there's even more a happier alternate ending where
he actually does end up going to join her.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
Oh my god. That's like it's like the alternate ending
of To Live and Die in La where it turns
out well.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
The Francis Aberline character in this is in some ways
because there there was a real psych kick in sort
of in the mix of the jacktor Ripper case, a
guy named Robert James Lee's and I you know he's

(28:12):
he's in the Jacta Ripper mini series I talked about.
There's a version of him in Murder by Decree. It's
it sort of feels like they're trying to kind of
combine those two characters, because like the Francis Aberlin character
in this is is like the real the real Aberline

(28:32):
was not a drug addict. He was, you know, not
this He was not this guy. You know.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
Was he more Michael Caine than Michael Caine.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
Is is probably closer to what the character was, except
that he's, you know, Michael Cain version is an alcoholic.
There's no evidence that Aberline was an addictive of any kind.
But the Michael Kaine character is a more traditional, methodical
police investigator with less sort of brooding gothic touches. But

(29:06):
you know, it works because this is Johnny Depp and you.

Speaker 1 (29:10):
Know, it is the choices that the Hughes brothers are making.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
Yeah, and it's it's it's it's it's also because they
leave you no doubt in your mind that this character
is psychic. Like it's not like he might be psychic.
It's not. You know, it's not magical realism. He's psychic
and it's part of the movie. And that's fine, you
know again, I I it's one of the reasons why

(29:35):
I call this historical fantasy instead of you know, a
biopic or something. But you know, it is the sort
of thing that I do have to say, you kind
of have to take this movie on its own, you know,
as a fantastical take on the material. It's not you know,
it's not.

Speaker 3 (29:54):
The other part, the other fantasy part is that you know,
the doctor who is Jack the Ripper in this film,
which what is his name again, Sir William Yes, he
his eyes turned black whenever he's.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
Gonna what a neat effect. There's one point where they
show gall riding in the coach when you know that
he's the Ripper, because they take until the last third
or so to let you know when you're riding in
the coach, and even though the coach there's nothing in
the set dressing that would be this way in a
in a close up, he's just he's got the black

(30:31):
eyes and the top hat and a red backdrop behind him,
and he looks like like doctor Caligary, like it's a
it's the craziest image, and it was. It was just
really cool. I thought that was.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
Well, I mean, they do they do a you know,
a really good job of painting him as a very
human monster that might be more you know, it doesn't
quite go is full on batshit as the from Hell
comic where you know, the ripper is getting visions of

(31:06):
the future and things like that. But you know, it's
it's there's an implied level of occultism here that you know,
is at least in conversation with the comic book, and
I think works well for the universe that you know,
it's kind of implying that if you're this level of evil,

(31:27):
you're kind of demonic in a way.

Speaker 3 (31:31):
Yeah, And so I think I think this film does
takes real life things and really just runs with them
in a horror you know, a in a horror direction,
and one of them is the is the Freemasons, and
like the fact that so many of it. Anytime you
don't most of us don't know about something, it becomes
it's possible that it's you know, it's evil, it's it's

(31:53):
a cult, it's whatever. Uh. You know, everybody feels that
way about religions that they aren't, you know, and and
that's certainly the case with Freemasons because most of us
are not are not Freemasons, and so we kind of think, oh, well,
you have these rituals and like they have to like
put on special clothing and there's like weapons and involved

(32:14):
in what and so it becomes like this whole you know,
it's like the satanic panic thing. You know, it's like, oh,
what's actually happening there? And the same is true or
you know, we talk about wickens, you know, and it's like, oh,
what are they actually doing or all kinds of different
religions and colts and what have you. So that was
really interesting here where they're just like, okay, the guy's

(32:35):
got hit, you know, the rope around his neck and
they're it's like pointing a dagger at his chest and
he's like half half naked, and this is his induction
into so it all kind of plays into our are
just like what the fear of the unknown. The other
one is the asylum. The asylum is terrifying, and it's

(32:55):
because in real life it was terrifying, and I think
it's probably still is to an extent, but but maybe
not the sent It was at that point where even
if they're not doing exactly the the lobotomy the way
that that they do it in the film, you know
that they're putting people away and lobottomizing them or whatever
they're doing, well.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
They're basically they're basically turning people into vegetables.

Speaker 3 (33:17):
Yeah, because they get they don't know what to do
with them, because like you know, they would put women
in asylums for being quote unquote hysterical. You know what
does that mean? Or for all kinds of things. There's
a wonderful list that goes around about the reasons that
women would get sent to two asylums, and it was
stuff like menopause, you know, I mean, it was just

(33:38):
it was crazy. So all of that, you know, all
of that just kind of I think that this film
does really good job of playing on our fears of
all of those real life things.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
That's a that's a common fear. We've talked about a
lot right where where you know in the movies that
they play with it because it is such a terrible
fear that once you get yourself, once you get yourself
put into one of those places, it can be very
difficult to get yourself out because everything is a proof
that you deserve to be it, and it's a it's

(34:07):
just extraordinarily scary there.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
They're not even now, they're not good places. I'll just
leave it at that, and no need to spend too
much time on that and bumming people out. But sure
I have been in a mental hospital in my adult
life and they are there, weren't people doing ice pick lobotomies,

(34:31):
but they aren't pleasant places. And you know it just
it emphasizes the you know, how the upper levels of
a society treat the most vulnerable members of society. And also,
like in this case, when we're introduced to this mental hospital,
we're not seeing a woman that is mentally ill in

(34:54):
any way, shape or fashion. She's being put in there
because of who she fell in love with and who
she who she she had a child with.

Speaker 3 (35:03):
Ye that happens a lot, especially back in the day
is just getting you know, like we watched Gaslight, you
know where it's like, we just need to dispense at
this person, and so it's either kill her or send
her to a disappear her. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
And I want to say something hopeful though well true
it was interrupted you. I'm so sorry.

Speaker 2 (35:26):
No, I didn't go ahead.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
What I didn't want to say hopeful is I like
that this movie presents people who are in a terrible situation,
but they're not terrible people. They have shitty lives, but
they're not shitty to one another. They have they have
a community. They look out for one another. They're they're
doing things like you know, babysitting for one another. They're
just living their lives.

Speaker 2 (35:46):
They're talking about the people who live in in Whitechapel.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
Yes, I'm talking.

Speaker 3 (35:50):
About the the unfortunately the women anyway.

Speaker 1 (35:53):
Yeah, they are looking out for one another and they've
got a program going. I mean it's a shitty life, okay,
but they are making it work. And and because one
starts starts running, well.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
No, because even even before that, they're being preyed upon
by a street gang that's fleecing them of their earnings.

Speaker 1 (36:15):
Yes, yeah, that's happening.

Speaker 3 (36:17):
That's my point is that the women just have it terrible.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
All.

Speaker 1 (36:21):
I'm not saying that that there's an escape offered in
this movie. I'm saying I like that it presents that
these people poverty does not make you a bad person
in this movie. And there are movies where poverty makes
you a bad person. But in this movie, these people
are good. Now they're losing, and but but you.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
Would I would actually argue that this movie h paints
the position that the more wealth that you have, the
more insensitive you are.

Speaker 1 (36:48):
Oh yeah, absolutely, and maybe you know that might be
a psychological armor that that the wealthy put on in
this movie. I think one of my favorite ones is
when the rich dudes are hanging out among the Masonic
do and they go, boy that Johnny Depp. He has
that odd sort of intelligence that sometimes turns up in
the middle classes.

Speaker 3 (37:10):
Yeah, and then the guys like you, but thankfully you
don't have that.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
Good grief the the the.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
Even the way Queen Victoria is portrayed as this sort
of ice woman that you know, well, in his way,
Sir William was still being loyal even if he did go,
you know, slice a bunch of people to Ribbons, I did.

Speaker 3 (37:42):
Want him to take care of this problem for us.
I didn't need to be quite this way. But whatever
he did, what he yea.

Speaker 2 (37:49):
And more of this, and it's just it's it's you know, I.

Speaker 4 (37:56):
Think you know, the way, you know, the US Brothers
is as filmmakers are very interested in you know, race,
you know struggle, for one, but also class struggle.

Speaker 2 (38:11):
And I think that's probably what attracted to them to
this material is that you know, you you do really
get a sense of how the system has, you know,
how stacked it is against people, and it is it

(38:34):
is probably why this version of the Ripper story is
the one that gets passed around. But it is interesting
to me that he couldn't just be you know, his motive.
His motives have because he was never caught and because
we don't know who he really was, his motivations have

(38:57):
to be something so epic to where he has a
whole support system and you know, he's he's part of
you know, the royal you know family in a way,
and there's that he couldn't just be a maniac because
there's you know, obviously even though Jack the Ripper, I
guess was the first, I guess celebrity serial killer, you know,

(39:22):
the you know, obviously plenty of killers since then, and
you know, we we we don't ascribe them as grandiose
motivations as we do Jack the Ripper.

Speaker 1 (39:35):
Now, by the way, that that that reminds me in
the movies have been like we watched Doctor Jacqueline Sister Hyde,
which positive that Sister Hyde was a female Jack the Ripper, like,
in other words, that Jack the Ripper moved with invisibility
by being a female in the London streets, and which
is a novel idea, you know that.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
Not not entirely unheard of. There are I I forget
who the suspects are, but they're because there's literally dozens
of Jack the Ripper suspects, but there are a few
women suspects out there, and they they positioned that exact
same rationale is that a woman could be not as
noticed at this point in time, and you know, and

(40:20):
I mean, who knows, but that's also tying Jack the
Ripper into the doctor jack Oline mister Hyde story, which
is something that was actually happening at the at the time.
So really yeah, and in fact, there was an actor
playing mister Hyde on the stage that was not necessarily

(40:41):
a suspect with the police, but was a suspect kidding
and the media.

Speaker 1 (40:45):
Yeah, I mean Hyde comes out what like two years
before The Ripper starts.

Speaker 2 (40:50):
Yeah, still very much in the public imagination.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
At a time on a novelette like that, you know,
that's a primary form of entertainment, so that so that
it would be on every that he's on everybody's mind. Boy,
that's that's fascinating. There was a movie with klaus Kinsky
that I remember where he was. He was Jack the Ripper,
but I think he was also quite jackal asque.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
No, are you thinking of.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
Jack the Ripper with klaus Kinsky?

Speaker 2 (41:19):
No? But there is uh a Doctor Jekyl and mister
Hyde with Anthony Perkins that also makes the Ripper.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
No, I did not see that.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
Yeah, yeah, it's Edge of Sanity.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
I think, No, kidding, that's a terrible title for something
that is Doctor Jekyl and Jack the Ripper. I mean
that is like, what if you want me to go
watch it and you call it something like Edge of Sanity,
which sounds like pretty generic, right that that's that sounds
like a melodrama, which I'm not against, but if you
tell me, oh, yeah, I know, it's Doctor Jekyl and

(41:54):
Jack the Ripper. I'm like, that's a that's a different
kind of movie. And I'm there, you know, no problem,
Edge of Sanity. That's fantastic. I look that up. So, okay,
I did want to talk a little bit about the cast.
We've mentioned Johnny Depp, who is singularly odd. What an
interesting actor he is. Let's set aside our feelings about
Johnny Depp as a person, because I you know, I

(42:18):
don't have well formed ones and it's way too complicated.
Let's just talk about him as a performer. So he
was a heart throb in the eighties, you know, as
just a very very pretty man on twenty one Jump Street,
and then you know, in Crybaby and so forth, and
he grew into a really extravagantly eccentric adult actor that

(42:41):
I can't explain most of Johnny Depp's acting choices. But
he's always watchable, Like he's always you know, he's never
a disappointment.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
You know. I feel like his accent here is sort
of proto Jack Sparrow. Yeah, like I can hear the
start of Jack Sparrow here.

Speaker 3 (43:01):
Yes, Well, so we went to I know we've told
the story probably a number of times at this point.
But when we went to Glastonbury in England, we were
told by the the witch that we met there that
Johnny Depp lived in Bath and would come around with
Nicholas Cage to her her her like crystal and potions shop,

(43:22):
whatever she called it, and that they basically that Nicholas
Cage wanted to be a witch, but he wasn't a
very good one. But but the fact that Johnny Depp
lived there and probably still has a home there, I'm
guessing means that the accent is probably pretty because that
wasn't about around When was that, Jason that we met her?
Was that after we had the kids? Are before?

Speaker 1 (43:42):
I think it was before, right, No, after that was?

Speaker 3 (43:45):
Uh no, that's not when that was.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
That was we just was So I guess it's ten
years ago is when.

Speaker 3 (43:53):
We met her. Okay, anyway, So, but he'd already you know,
lived there for us. I don't know. I'm guessing. My
point is I guess he had already lived in Britain
by the point time he's making this film, so his
accent is probably pretty authentic. I it sounds good to me.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
But yes, very Jack Sparrow. The hilarious drunkenness of Jack
Sparrow is not here, but I can't. I think he's
just one of those actors who decided that he wanted
to sort of play against type and always be a
little strange relative too.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
Well, yeah, because he could have been. He could have
just coasted on his looks, right, and you know he
he tends to take weird parts, and even this one,
which could have been a much more straightforward detective art, well, yes, no, I.

Speaker 3 (44:40):
Mean the part isn't. He's as an opium addict, so
he does have to have at least some of that because.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
But the point is, like it, I guess that's true,
but it still could have. I'm just saying that Johnny
Depp is an eccentric actor.

Speaker 3 (44:53):
He is the other options. By the way, the other
options were. Brad Pitt was an option Sean Connery. I know,
it's just weird to think of the different I know,
and then there was a couple of brothers on IMDb.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
But Sean Connery does look a lot more like the
way Eddie Campbell drew Aberline, So like Who's was a
much more heavy set man. I you know, I think
I think for this version of it, at least as presented,

(45:29):
Johnny Depp works. You know, it's it's you know, it's
not his his best performance. It's certainly not his worst.
Like I don't, I don't come away from it thinking,
you know, I'm I'm wowed by this, but you know,
he's he's credible, like you believe that, you believe he

(45:53):
is a man of this time period. You do believe
that he's an addict, and you know, most importantly to
this movie, you do actually believe that he's psychic.

Speaker 3 (46:02):
So I found by the way I found that. I
found the IMDb thing. It says Hughes Brothers originally wanted
Daniel day Lewis, which I think would have been great.
When that fell through, they interviewed Sean Connery, Jude Law,
and Brad Pitt. Jude Law would have been great. To
Brad Pitt would have been terrible. I would not have
liked Brad Pitt in this world, but I would.

Speaker 1 (46:18):
Have gotten rid of the psychic thing. I I kind
of feel.

Speaker 3 (46:21):
Like, yeah, the psychic thing I think is just kind
of it's it's it's just another thing pulled from another
character because it was based on Robert James Lees, who
was a psychic of the time, and so it's just
pulling interesting yeah, pulling interesting things from different part of
real life, stuff that happened or that may or may
not have happened, and putting it into the story. You know,

(46:44):
it's it's it's neither there, here nor there. But but
the good thing about psychic thing is that it ties
exactly directly into my endorsements. So I'm excited that that's
all I think.

Speaker 2 (46:54):
I think when you say Daniel day Lewis, I think
Daniel day Lewis as much as I think Johnny Depp
is just fine here. I think Daniel day Lewis could
have elevated this to being something really really special.

Speaker 1 (47:10):
But maybe it's so hard to envision because so yes,
but I don't know what it would look like because
Lewis is different in every role, so God only knows
what what what that would have been.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
I think he would have had a fantastic mustache.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
Maybe, I mean remember him as Natty Bumpo, where curiously
he had no mustache even though he probably should have.

Speaker 2 (47:29):
I'm just thinking about Gangs of New York, which is
in the same time period, and he had a wonderful
mustache in that so, but I, I, uh, you know,
I think that this was kind of the time period
also where Heather Graham was in a lot of things.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
Yah, let's talk about Heather Graham. She's the best skin.

Speaker 2 (47:50):
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (47:51):
Yeah, it annoyed me how clean and perfect she was.

Speaker 2 (47:55):
Although although in fairness of the Canical Ripper Victims, Mary
Kelly was noted as being attractive, whatever that meant to
eighteen eighty eight Whitechapel, and she was also the youngest
of the of the victims. So I actually think Heather

(48:17):
Graham's a lot better here than I thought that she
was the because I haven't seen this movie probably in
over a decade. Like it was not a movie that
I was particularly enamored with as I as I said
the first time I watched it, and I think I
enjoyed it the most probably watching it this time, and
her accents better than I thought it was. She is

(48:38):
remarkably clean, especially when they go out of their way
to make everybody else look so dingy. But she almost
looks like a character that would be on the cover
of a Bodice Ripper novel. Yes, Like she's very romance
novel looking.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
Oh my god, Yeah, she's so pretty. She does. She
looks like she looks like, I don't know, the governess
and some sort of Victorian mystery thriller.

Speaker 3 (49:03):
Well, it annoys me that she that the reason that
she's so perfectly clean in her hair is so perfectly
styled is because she needs to be the love interest
for Aberdeen. And if if if she's not perfectly clean
and beautiful, then then why would he why would he
want her? You know kind of And that just really
bothered me a lot, because I'm just like, you know,
is the value of the woman in the fact that

(49:24):
she's able to rise above her station and somehow bathe
and style her hair every day? Like what anyway?

Speaker 1 (49:31):
That honestly is so Yeah, it is shocking. Mary Kelly's
wounds were the worst of the Ripper murders.

Speaker 3 (49:43):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (49:44):
This was his final, his final act that is attached
to her chapter apart like he tore her.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
Yeah, A lot a lot of people think that's because
it was in her home and he basically could work
like he basically did her what he would have done
to everybody if if he wasn't worried about being caught
out in the open, which is I've heard Jack the
Ripper referred to as a product killer, which is the

(50:16):
same thing that Dahmer apparently was, which it means to
say he's not especially interested in the kill. You know,
that's not the part that gets him off. It's it's
the ritual of disassembling the body afterwards. And you know
he sees he sees like taking apart the body as

(50:39):
you know, his I guess, expression of his madness. I
don't know what the right way the phrase is. It's
it's twisted when you think about it. And but I
mean when you think about what has been what is
done with Mary Kelly, like that's you know, because he like,

(51:03):
you know, I had to listen. I didn't have to,
but I listened to you know, a podcast that really
went into you know, what all was done to her,
and it's you know, it's it's grizzly stuff.

Speaker 1 (51:14):
No I And I found that I actually have I
have edges of what I actually want want to experience
or be exposed to. Like just last week I was
at the Calorrohade Festival for and these two forensic pathologists
were doing a panel and the concept was we're going
to do a slide show showing you what real wounds

(51:35):
look like, you know, comparing comparing them to what they
look like in the movies. And I was like, what
am I even doing here? I'm not gonna watch this
like like they go, okay, this next one, you know,
the first one is this is an auger And I
was like, oh, no, okay, I appreciate it. Bye, And
I was like, gone, because yes, I I guess if
I if somebody hires me to write something about a

(51:56):
person who dies at the hands of an auger, I
meaning to look at that stuff, but I'll I'll pass
for now, and.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
I don't feel probably revolted on that level. It makes
me feel angry, is how like like like like the
the like it's kind of like what I was talking
about earlier. It makes me feel angry on Mary Kelly's
behalf like you know, I you know, which I don't

(52:26):
know if that's a healthy or normal response at all.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
Makes it so wonderfully it's a very healthy response, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (52:32):
I I you know, I think that there is something
fascinating about wondering what drives someone to do that to
another person. But at the same time, and I think
this movie does a very good job of it. Anytime
you're dealing with a real life you know, I often

(52:54):
say this two people when talking about like monsters and
things like that versus true crime. You know, movie monsters
can be fun. I think you're you're always running a
risk with you know, real life, with something that's based
off of real life tragedy, Like you don't want to
glorify someone like Jack the Ripper. And I think what

(53:16):
this movie does that's pretty smart is it doesn't necessarily
linger on the murders themselves. It shows you just enough
to know that there's a murder going on, and often
it relies on sound effects and things of that nature,
and then it will show you the crime scene after all,

(53:38):
which after what happened, which is a reminder of the
you know, the the more tragic aspect of this, like
you know, he's he's taking these women and he doesn't
see them as people, right, and that's kind of terrible, like,
you know, you know, And at the same time, like

(54:00):
if if we are to discuss the the concept of
serial killers in pop culture, one of the reasons why
we are still talking about Jack the Ripper is that,
in his weird way, he was excellent at branding, and
you know that it's it's it's a pattern that other

(54:23):
murderers have followed, and you know, it kind of plays.

Speaker 3 (54:27):
And was he the one that was excellent? If he's
not the one who wrote the letters, maybe somebody else,
Well that's.

Speaker 2 (54:31):
That's that is up. That is up to debate and
will probably be debated towards until the end of time.
But at least at least one of those letters was
sent by somebody that had a human kidney on hand.
So that's that's something.

Speaker 1 (54:53):
Very good point. I forgot about that.

Speaker 2 (54:55):
Yeah, yeah, So, out of the hundreds of letters that
are kicked around about the Ripper letters, there are the
three that are thought of as being possibly authentic. There's
the Dear Boss letter, which is where, of course we
do get the name Jack the Ripper. Of course, there

(55:20):
are also people that believe that the newspaper wrote that letter,
which isn't entirely possible because this was the golden age
of yellow journalism when this was all happening. So although
it did have details of some of the crimes in them,
that the reporters wouldn't necessarily have that information, So I mean,

(55:44):
it could go it could have been a lucky guess,
or it could have been written by the murderer. We
don't know.

Speaker 1 (55:51):
I kind it fascinating that that is the essentially that
is true crime. That for most of the people who
were not in danger, they were treating this like many
of us treat dayline, you know, just an interesting thing
going on, and that is fascinating.

Speaker 2 (56:09):
Well, apparently up the upper class was so fascinated with
the idea that the Ripper could be one of their
own they would actually hold Ripper parties and try and
guess which member of their friend group could be Jack.

Speaker 3 (56:23):
The Ripper, whereas in this film they make it seem
like they absolutely don't want to claim him. So it
has to be the Jews, or it has to be
what was the other category of people that they decided.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
To foreigners for foreigners.

Speaker 3 (56:38):
Or whatever, like, it can't be one of us, you know.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
Well, I mean, you know, the talk of you know,
demonizing immigrants and demonizing you know, Jews, like that's still
something that is still very much with us and we're
dealing with right now.

Speaker 1 (56:56):
And it was very much part of Victoria. Because obviously Dracula,
which is eighteen ninety seven Dracula moves amongst wealthy society,
you know, and and he goes to the same parlors
that they all do. But he's a foreign wealthy person
and he's the one who brings corruption in. So it

(57:17):
just it's you could be a bad guy, wealthy person,
but you're probably a foreign one. Go ahead.

Speaker 2 (57:23):
I think as far as the letters go, what's interesting
about the debate surrounding those is that you know, it's
you know, I don't know that you know, because prior
to the Jack the Ripper name being attached to it,

(57:44):
the killer was referred to as leather Apron and the
press because of a butcher's leather apron. And I don't
know that we would. So if you know, Jack the
Rippers just it rolls off the it sounds it's a
great name for a boogeyman. And I don't think that
we would necessarily be talking about Maybe we would because

(58:07):
the crimes were still sensational and there's still.

Speaker 1 (58:11):
That that was that was an inspiration from Hell. That's
that's that's amazing.

Speaker 2 (58:16):
No pun intended. I mean, the firm Hell letter, most
criminal criminologists agree is from the real killer, because again
it did have a human, a partially eaten human kidney
in it, So.

Speaker 1 (58:34):
I I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (58:36):
I am personally of the opinion, although again I am
very much out of the Jack the Ripper business. I
am personally of the opinion that all all, all three
of those letters are probably from the killer because we've
still seen this type of behavior in serial killers later on,

(58:59):
we killers get off on an arcissistic level on taunting
the press and taunting the authority, and I just think
this is the first time we really have a historical
record of someone behaving like that. I mean, certainly there
were probably serial killers before, we just didn't didn't necessarily know.

(59:21):
But I mean, obviously that's very much subject in debate
to debate, and I'm I'm not a criminologist, so you know,
I'm completely fine with people who disagree with me on this,
and you know, I also believe a lot of batshit
crazy things, so you know, take my opinion lightly.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
All right, we should get our final thoughts and then
uh and then come around. But this has been a
really fun film to discuss, Julia. We should follow your
inspirations more often.

Speaker 3 (59:51):
So okay, that's what I always say.

Speaker 1 (59:54):
Yes, indeed, all right, final thoughts, Julia. We have discussed
the bloody and sometimes brilliant from hell. What are your
final thoughts?

Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
So I'm actually going to do a thing that we
don't usually do, which is I'm just going to skip
my final thoughts and go directly to my endorsement. You
guys can still do final thoughts and then endorsements however
you want to do it. But for me, the final
thoughts and endorsements go together because my endorsement is a
book called Chasing Evil, which is a not a brand

(01:00:25):
new nonfiction book by former FBI agent Robert hilland and
psychic John Edward. And it actually is about the fact
that for twenty five years, John Edward, who is a
famous you know, medium and psychic, has been helping this
FBI agent, Robert hilland secretly helping him solve all these crimes,

(01:00:49):
including these murders by this man named John Smith and
some other cold cases. And it's just a riveting book.
I'm just I was so fast by it and so
watching this and I didn't realize when I recommended that
we watch this film that it had that psychic piece
to it. So I was just so excited about that
because of like, hey, it's like my world this week

(01:01:11):
is about, you know, the link between psychics and solving
solving crimes. Although I don't feel like his uh the
character in the movie, that his psychic abilities really helped
him all that much, but in this case, it's been
super helpful to for Robert Hillan to have John Edward

(01:01:31):
to call on. And Hilen did not believe in psychics.
He actually when he met John, he intended to bring
him down, like he was like, this is such bullshit
and I'm going to I'm gonna reveal this guy for
the fraud that he is. And then when he turned
out not to be a fraud, then he started calling him,
calling on him for for all these different things. And
it's just fascinating, fascinating, fasting and fascinating. So I highly

(01:01:54):
recommend it. And like I say, it also ties in
with my final thoughts about the film, because I did
think that was a fun aspect to this movie that
was not part of the original Deck the Ripper story.
But other than that, I've already talked about, you know
that the fact that I feel like there's a lot
a lot of things that bugged me, but mostly because

(01:02:14):
it's reflecting of a darkness that actually has existed in
so many cases, it continues to exist, So you know,
it's I don't know. I don't know what else to
say about it. I'm not I don't regret watching it,
but it did bump me out.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
It's understood, very good, dru what about you.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
I enjoyed watching this movie. It is I also agree
with Julia though that it is perhaps in viewed in
contemporary especially with like everything that's going on in the world.
It's a bit of a bummer, but I do I
did enjoy watching it, and like I said, it did

(01:02:55):
make me go back to some of my more youthful interests.
I would I would like to maybe come around to
doing Murder by Decree on the show at some point,
or maybe exploring some other movies. The deal in this
uh sordid topic. UH. Maybe not necessarily a marathon, because

(01:03:16):
that could end up bumming us all out. But this
is this is a worthy addition to uh Jack the
Ripper cinema, and it's it's it's worth revisiting. I I
although I urge people this is this is not necessarily
my endorsement, but I do urge people to check out
the graphic novel because it's it's great.

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
Wonderful, Thank you very much. I I had not thought
about this film in many years until Julia mentioned it,
and so it was it was very cool to watch.
I don't think I had seen it since it came out,
so it was it was neat to re explore it,
and I enjoyed it for all the reasons that that
we've talked about. But at this point I would just

(01:04:01):
be repeating the things that you guys have said. So
I agree with everything endorsements, which is to say, whatever
you have that that is of a genre and that
you'd like to share with us, and you don't even
have to stick to the genre. Julia already gave hers
what was the name of the of the book again,
Chasing Evil?

Speaker 3 (01:04:19):
Yeah, Chasing Evil, and it just came out this year.

Speaker 1 (01:04:21):
Right, Chasing Evil new in twenty five, Drew, what do
you got?

Speaker 2 (01:04:25):
Well, I, you know, I think I'm going to tell
people that they should check out the Jack the Ripper
miniseries from nineteen eighty eight with Michael Caine. It's on
two B. It's espousing a lot of the same debunked theories,
but it's still very very watchable, very fun. Not as
Grizzly because it's a TV movie, so I think if

(01:04:49):
you were not in the mood for a bunch of
in your face gore that that role, that will also
hit that Bill. I am going to be this is personal,
but I am going to be in DFW this weekend.
I'm going to be in Plano on Friday and at

(01:05:09):
Madness Comics and Games from five to nine signing the
New Halloween Man Collection. And then I'm going to be
at the Denton Comic Start Expo from eleven to five
in Denton, Texas on Saturday. So come out get the
New Halloween Man Collection. Although if you can't go to

(01:05:32):
either of those things, you should go to your local
bookstore and just order it and say, I want this,
this is what I want to do for my spooky season.
So yeah, that's that's that's me this this week.

Speaker 3 (01:05:45):
And my other endorsement is that if you're missing Tony,
Jason has been interviewing Tony about Fantastic Fest so you
can check out this interviews.

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
Yeah, and we should probably do another with Tony's watching
like forty different movies Fantastic festin he checks in periodically
and says what he's watched it's pretty cool. And usually
then it's like a year or so before the rest
of us get a chance to watch it, because most
of the things he's watching don't actually have distribution yet,
so it's pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (01:06:14):
In the case of the Toxic Avenger remake, it was
several years I know for any of us see it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:22):
You want to hear, you want to hear A terrible
truth with me and Toxic Avenger. I was so appalled
by the head crushing scene at the beginning of, or
towards the beginning of Toxic Avenger that I don't even
want to watch the remake because I was so sickened
by that so so yes, so an experience of watching

(01:06:44):
something something like forty years ago, it was like, Okay,
that's enough Toxic Avenger for me. And apparently a lot
of people have seen that movie, and that seems not
even in the one that they saw, Like it's apparently
it was so gruesome that it's actually been cut out
of a lot of the versions that people saw.

Speaker 2 (01:07:03):
I'm sure it's not on the versions that were on TV.
A lot of death.

Speaker 1 (01:07:08):
That is what I'm given to understand, is that that
that was not there. But boy was I disturbed by
it in like nineteen eighty six or whatever. It was
so okay. My endorsement grabbed, almost as if out of
a hat. So y'all know that I watched chill Way

(01:07:29):
videos and from those I learn of new movies I've
never heard of that I need to watch. Also on Tooby,
this turned up as the backdrop for one of the
chill Way videos. Flesh Tone from nineteen ninety four is
a conspiracy thriller starring Martin camp formerly of Spandout Ballet.
And you'll know Martin Kemp as the vampire Lover in

(01:07:51):
Embrace the Vampire and in flesh Tone. He is an
artist who is real snooty about how about how he
paints his gruesome portraits and is trying to reach something
or other Larady, And somehow he falls in love with
this woman who takes out an ad in the back
of the magazine, and he starts this phone relationship with

(01:08:12):
this woman who lives across the country from him, and
it leads to a twisty tail of murder and desperation
and stuff, and it's so of a time. Nineteen ninety
four If you like, If you like nineteen ninety four,
semi sexy thrillers that have a lot of like that

(01:08:33):
fake blue light that was everywhere in these movies. This
definitely has all of that. There's even a scene Martin
Kent became a really good actor later on, but he's not.
He seems to be learning his craft in nineteen ninety four,
and there's a scene where after describing what happened to
the Black Dahlia, he comes into his bedroom and he
discovers a murder that is just like that. This is

(01:08:55):
a very very gruesome sight. He lifts back the sheets
and he discovered a very gruesome sight. And his response
is to go, oh my god, as though as though
somebody had, like I don't know, spilled coffee on his
desk or something like like, as though it's mildly irritating.
Flesh Tone nineteen ninety four on Toby. And also just

(01:09:17):
see where Toby sends you after that. So there you go.
I'm probably the only person who's discussed flesh Tone this year.
Everyone be extremely kind to one another. It's been so
fun discussing this, and I can't wait to have Tony
back next time. Thank you all. We really love us.

Speaker 3 (01:09:35):
We're gonna have a special guest next week as well.

Speaker 1 (01:09:37):
Oh my goodness, one of our favorites.

Speaker 3 (01:09:39):
Yes, stay tuned.

Speaker 1 (01:09:41):
Okay, well then I will just I will just cut that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:44):
No, no, no, you cut it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:45):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:09:46):
It's called it's called teasing Jason. Yes, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:09:49):
Well, I couldn't tell if Julia was telling me not
to even know.

Speaker 3 (01:09:52):
I was saying, you don't have to go into all
of the details, just that it's specially yes, it's.

Speaker 2 (01:09:56):
Gonna it's gonna be cool, this conversation we're having no
stop cutting things. This is this is, this is this
is this is the reality.

Speaker 1 (01:10:08):
This is the amazing thing is nobody even knows what
I've cut. Like it's like so although I'm sure a
lot of people don't know, if this is what made
it through, I can't even imagine, like what would be
worthy of.

Speaker 3 (01:10:19):
It's one of my favorite things on a podcast when
the people go, we're going to cut this and it
stays in and they forget right that they forget it's
just like it's just I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:10:28):
Maybe all right, thank you everybody, and we will talk
too soon.

Speaker 2 (01:10:33):
Bye bye,